RE: [agi] Re: Asimov-like reaction ?

2002-11-04 Thread Ben Goertzel
Is anybody working on building ethical capacity into AGI from the ground up? As I mentioned to Ben yesterday, AGIs without ethics could end up being the next decade's e-viruses (on steriods). Cheers, Philip My thoughts on this are at www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/2002/AIMorality.htm

RE: [agi] Commercial AGI ventures

2002-11-04 Thread Ben Goertzel
One trouble with this endeavor is that AGI is a fuzzy set... However, I'd be quite interested to see this list, even so. In fact, I think it'd be more valuable to simply see a generic list of all AGI projects, be they commercial or non. If anyone wants to create such a list, I'll be happy to

[agi] Inventory of AGI projects

2002-11-05 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, Inspired by a recent post, here is my attempt at a list of serious AGI projects underway on the planet at this time. If anyone knows of anything that should be added to this list, please let me know. . Novamente ... · Pei Wang’s NARS system · Peter Voss’s A2I2

RE: [agi] RE: Ethical drift

2002-11-05 Thread Ben Goertzel
David Noziglia wrote: It is a common belief that game theory has shown that it is advantageous to be selfish and nasty. I assume that the members of this group know that is wrong, that game theory has in fact shown that in a situation of repeated interaction, it is more advantageous from

RE: [agi] Inventory of AGI projects

2002-11-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
I think the key fact is that most of these projects are currently relatively inactive --- plenty of passion out there, just not a lot of resources. The last I heard both the HAL project and the CAM-brain project where pretty much at a stand still due to lack of funding? That is correct. I

RE: [agi] Spatial Reasoning: Modal or Amodal?

2002-11-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
James Rogers wrote: You would quite obviously be correct about the tractability if someone actually tried to brute force the entire algorithm space in L. The knowability factor means that we don't always (hardly ever?) get the best algorithm, but it learns and adapts very fast and this

RE: [agi] Re: on the notion that intelligence can be defined

2002-11-07 Thread Ben Goertzel
Paul Werbos, I agree fully with your comments on the nature of "intelligence" Clearly, "intelligence" is a natural language concept -- it's fuzzy, ambiguous, and it was created by humans for a certain collection of purposes. It was not created for dealing with other species loosely as

RE: [agi] on the notion that intelligence can be defined

2002-11-07 Thread Ben Goertzel
Paul P wrote: *** That "I" have not demonstrated precise definitions to the phenomenon of life or the phenomenon of intelligence is not a proper argument that you are right about the possibility of computer life. *** Of course it isn't an argument that I'm right. If by "prove" you're

RE: [agi] on the notion that intelligence can be defined

2002-11-07 Thread Ben Goertzel
I wrote *** There is a difference between Novamente and abstractions about Novamente There is a difference between my brain and abstractions about my brain A computer running aNovamente software system is not an abstraction, nor is my brain Both a computer running aNovamente system,

RE: [agi] on the notion that intelligence can be defined

2002-11-07 Thread Ben Goertzel
Shane Legg wrote: Whose to say what intelligence *really* is. My approach is simply to try to define something that captures with precision aspects of the fuzzy concept of intelligence, name it something else, and then get on with the job. If nobody/everybody thinks that what I have

[agi] FW: Workshop on cognitive modeling of agents and multi-agent interactions (fwd)

2002-11-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
Here is a notice for an interesting AGI-related conference in a kick-ass location ;-) Though they don't use the term AGI, it seems they are specifically looking for people to come present papers on AGI-related topics The call for papers uses language such as autonomous behavior and cognitive

RE: Re[2]: [agi] Early AGI apps

2002-11-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
BG Optimizing the optimizer is what we've called supercompiling the BG supercompiler, it's a natural idea, but we're not there yet. I didn't mean supercompiling the supercompiler but rather, evolving the supercompiler through known techniques such as GA. I have no idea how feasible

RE: [agi] cognitive modeling [was ... workshop ...]

2002-11-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Yes, for automatic term mapping the Cognitive Cyc sensor will read a symbolic proposition or the equivalent in some structured form. For rich, information-rich sensors I would follow the pattern given by James Albus: Grouping, Focus Attention, and Search. He uses sliding windows to detect

RE: [agi] A point of philosophy, rather than engineering

2002-11-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Charles Hixson wrote (in response to me): -- create a flexible knowledge representation (KR) useful for representing all forms of knowledge (declarative, procedural, perceptual, abstract, linguistic, explicit, implicit, etc. etc.) This probably won't work. Thinking of the brain as a

RE: [agi] A point of philosophy, rather than engineering

2002-11-13 Thread Ben Goertzel
Arthur Murray wrote: If Ben Goertzel and the rest of the Novamente team build up an AI that mathematically comprehends mountains of data, they may miss the AI boat by not creating persistent concepts that accrete and auto-prune over time as the basis of NLP. No, even before the Novamente

RE: [agi] A couple of interesting books

2002-11-22 Thread Ben Goertzel
*** Perhaps most subscribers are on top of/well beyond this material already but you might be interested in two new books: A new kind of science Stephen Wolfram 2002 ISBN: 1-57955-008-8 *** My reaction to this book is summarized in the review I wrote right after it come out. it's on my

RE: [agi] father figure

2002-12-01 Thread Ben Goertzel
Title: Message Hi, We have a bunch of languages that are tailored for particular purposes To feed Novamente data right now, we use either nmsh (Novamente shell) scripts or XML (using special tags that map into Novamente nodes and links). Psynese could be represented in either of these

RE: [agi] An idea for promoting AI development.

2002-12-01 Thread Ben Goertzel
Alan Grimes wrote: In 2003, our data entry activities will be emphasized as a result of our participation in Darpa's Total Information Awarenesss program for which we will construct a Terrorism Knowledge Base, containing all the open-source terrorist individuals, organizations and events

RE: [agi] An idea for promoting AI development.

2002-12-02 Thread Ben Goertzel
Stephen Read wrote: As Cycorp is the best funded company among those organizations with AGI as their primary goal, I would state that for us enrichment is not the motive. Steve, I accept this as an honest statement of your personal motivations. However, I'm not sure that Cycorp's investors

RE: [agi] How wrong are these numbers?

2002-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Alan The next question is: What's your corresponding estimate of processing power? To emulate the massively parallel information update rate of the brain on N bits of memory, how many commodity PC processors are required per GB of RAM? Ben G Ben Goertzel wrote: A short, interesting

RE: [agi] How wrong are these numbers?

2002-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
:55 PM Subject: Re: [agi] How wrong are these numbers? Ben Goertzel wrote: The next question is: What's your corresponding estimate of processing power? Thanks for the prompt. Lets use the number 2^30 for the size of the memory which will require 25 operations for each 32 bit word

RE: [agi] How wrong are these numbers?

2002-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
. But lets not underestimate the human mind, small m, in the meantime. No one has come even close to matching it yet. Sorry for the length and for babbling.. Kevin - Original Message - From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 6:59 PM

RE: [agi] How wrong are these numbers?

2002-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin wrote: I will go as far to say that any computer system we develop, even one that realizes all the promises of the singularity, can only match the capacity of the human Mind. Why? Because the universe is the Mind itself, and the computational capacity of the universe is rather

RE: [agi] How wrong are these numbers?

2002-12-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin wrote: I think Ben is closer to anyone in having a true mapping of the brain and its capabilities. As to whether it ultimately develops the emergent qualities we speak of..time will tell...even if it falls short of singularity type hype, i believe it can provide tremendous benefits

RE: [agi] getting started

2002-12-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
is not specifically devoted to my own approach to AGI. Some other approaches to AGI are described at www.cyc.com www.adaptiveai.com/ www.cogsci.indiana.edu/farg/peiwang/papers.html http://www.singinst.org/CFAI/ [This is a small, unsystematic list with very many important omissions] -- Ben

RE: [agi] sneps

2002-12-07 Thread Ben Goertzel
I am impressed that they have actually taken the step of integrating their logic-based memory, inference and learning framework with a real system with sensors and actuators, however. Ultimately, this sort of work may reveal to them the weakness of their cognitive mechanisms and

RE: [agi] Hello from Kevin Copple

2002-12-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
that DB, and maintain it carefully!!! One of these days I'll be wanting to talk to you about an arrangement for sharing it ;) -- Ben Goertzel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kevin Copple Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 4:11 AM

RE: [agi] Hello from Kevin Copple

2002-12-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Gary Miller wrote: I also agree that the AGI approach of modeling and creating a self learning system is a valid bottom up approach to AGI. But it is much harder for me with my limited mathematical and conceptual knowledge of the research to grasp how and when these systems will be able

RE: [agi] AI on TV

2002-12-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
of radical anti-AI people emerge with hostile intent. Another good reason to not be so visible!! Kevin - Original Message - From: Ben Goertzel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:26 AM Subject: RE: [agi] AI on TV

RE: [agi] Tony's 2d World

2002-12-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
)? Perhaps we can co-ordinate our efforts somehow. Peter http://adaptiveai.com/ -Original Message- Behalf Of Ben Goertzel ... [Although, in fact, Tony Lofthouse is coding up a simple 2D training-world right now, just to test some of the current Novamente cognitive functions

RE: [agi] Grounding

2002-12-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
True. The more fundamental point is that symbols representing entities and concepts need to be grounded with (scalar) attributes of some sort. How this is *implemented* is a practical matter. One important consideration for AGI is that data is easily retrievable by vector distance

RE: Games for AIs (Was: [agi] TLoZ: Link's Awakening.)

2002-12-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Mike, Actually, I'm not sure what the difference is between your proposal and the "game" proposal. In games like SimAnt or Creatures, the game-play basically just consists of exploring a simulated environment full of other organisms I think your suggestion is basically in the same

[agi] META: Sorry for the spam, it shouldn't happen again

2002-12-23 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi folks, Sorry about the spam ;-( I just logged onto listbox.com and changed the AGI list policy from * anyone may post to *subscribers only may post This should eliminate the spam problem. It may be annoying for people who have multiple e-mail addresses, but I don't have a

RE: [agi] Language and AGI (was Re: Early Apps)

2002-12-27 Thread Ben Goertzel
Shane, I agreed with the wording in your earlier post more ;) It is true that learning Esperanto would be easier for an AI than learning English or Italian. However, I think that if you had an AI capable of mastering the syntax-semantics-pragmatics interface [the really hard part of language,

RE: [agi] Early Apps.

2002-12-28 Thread Ben Goertzel
Gary Miller wrote: *** I guess I'm still having trouble with the concept of grounding. If I teach/encode a bot with 99% of the knowledge about hydrogen using facts and information available in books and on the web. It is now an idiot savant in that it knows all about hydrogen and nothing about

FW: [agi] Early Apps.

2002-12-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
This message from James Rogers seems to have gone to SL4 instead of AGI ... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of James Rogers Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 8:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [agi] Early Apps. On 12/29/02 4:22 PM,

RE: [agi] Early Apps.

2002-12-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
Gary Miller wrote: I agree that as humans we bring a lot of general knowledge with us when we learn a new domain. That is why I started off with the general conversational domain and am now branching into science, philosophy, mathematics and history. And of course the AI can not make all

RE: [agi] Thinking may be overrated.

2002-12-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin Copple wrote: Thinking in humans, much like genetic evolution, seems to involve predominately trial and error. Even the logic we like to use is more often than not faulty, but can lead us to try something different. And example of popular logic that is invariably faulty is reasoning

RE: [agi] Thinking may be overrated.

2002-12-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin Copple wrote: I do not want to say that random trial and error is the ultimate form of intelligent thought. Far from it. But given what nature and humankind have achieved with it to date, and that we may not even recognize the extent to which it is involved in our own thought, it

RE: [agi] Linguistic DB

2002-12-30 Thread Ben Goertzel
Well, animal languages are not languages in the same sense as human languages... We humans don't really know them very well, and it seems to me that they would be VERY hard for an AI to use effectively unless that AI were embodied in a close simulation of an appropriate animal body. Animal

RE: [agi] Intelligence by definition

2003-01-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
processing, social interaction, temporal event processing, etc. etc. etc. This means that it would not work as well taken outside of its ordinary social and physical situations. But it means that its limited resources are generally well deployed within its usual environments. -- Ben Goertzel.

RE: [agi] Intelligence by definition

2003-01-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
intelligence ;-) -- Ben Goertzel

RE: [agi] Intelligence by definition

2003-01-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
*** Well, in Novamente we are not coding*specific knowledge*thatis learnable... but we are coding implicit knowledge as to what sorts of learning processes are most useful in which specialized subdomains... --- I don't know, from where I sit this distinction is artificial. Learning is

RE: [agi] Diminished impact of Moore's Law on AGI due to other bottlenecks

2003-01-04 Thread Ben Goertzel
this is roughly proportional to CPU speed (until one reaches the point where human attention to interpret the test results is the rate-limiting factor). -- Ben Goertzel --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member

RE: [agi] Chess Master Theory Of AGI.

2003-01-04 Thread Ben Goertzel
This will occur before the predictions of the experts in the field of Singularity prediction because their predictions are based on a constant Moore's Law and they over estimate the computational capacity required for human level AGI. Their dates vary from 2016 to 2030 depending on

RE: [agi] Q: Who coined AGI?

2003-01-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
or Pei or Peter... For example, this paper by Mark Gubrud from 1997 http://www.csr.umd.edu/~mgubrud/nanosec1.html uses the term repeatedly, in basically the same sense we're using it now. I would bet he was not the first to use it either... -- Ben Goertzel -Original Message- From

RE: [agi] Q: Who coined AGI?

2003-01-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
- From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: RE: [agi] Q: Who coined AGI? I guess most AI researchers consider AI to be inclusive of AGI and ASI. That's Ok with me ... ASI is interesting too, though quite different

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
. Rationality is about what one does to fulfill one's goals -- morals and ethics are about what the goals are, in the first place. Benevolence and respect for all forms of life need to be there *in the goal system*. Not hardwired in, in any sense -- rather, taught and fully internalized. -- Ben

RE: [agi] neural nets

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin is correct. You'd need a system that had birdlike perceptual organs, and was able to gather data similar to the data birds gather. Then it could learn to make the calls birds made in proper situated context. *This* would constitute a beginning understanding of bird language. -- Ben

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
as an amoeba ??? These issues were extensively discussed on the global brain discussion group e-mail list, a few years back. -- Ben Goertzel --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, I think that to suggest that evolutionary wiring is the root of our problems is suspect at best. there are many great beings who have walked this earth that were subject to the same evolution, yet not at the whim of the destructive emotions. Causality is a very subtle notion

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
I agree with your ultimate objective, the big question is *how* to do it. What is clear is that no one has any idea that seems to be guaranteed to work in creating an AGI with these qualities. We are currently resigned to let's build it and see what happens. Which is quite scary for some,

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
, the creation of an AGI that is benevolent toward humans and other lifeforms. -- Ben Ben Goertzel wrote: 3) an intention to implement a careful AGI sandbox that we won't release our AGI from until we're convinced it is genuinely benevolent Ben, that doesn't even work on *me*. How many

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Agreed, Tim, no sandbox environment can be sufficient for determining benevolence. Such an environment can only be a heuristic guide. We will gather data about an AGI's benevolence from its behavior in the sandbox, and from our knowledge of its internal state. And we will make our best

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
This type of training should be given to the AGI as early as it is understandable in order to ensure proper consideration of the welfare of it's creators. Not so simple: The human brain has evolved a special agent modeling circuit that exists in the frontal lobe. (probably having a

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
* An intelligent system distinguishes self from other * A wise and intelligent system realizes that self and other are distinct, but also the same -- Ben Goertzel --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?[EMAIL

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Alan Grimes wrote: My position is that you don't really need friendly AI, you simply need to neglect to include the take over world motovator... I think that is a VERY bad approach !!! I don't want a superhuman AGI to destroy us by accident or through indifference... which are possibilities

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
to serve people. (Biomind LLC's alpha Biomind Toolkit product, based on parts of the incomplete Novamente system, will be done in March... its goal is to serve biologists with great data analyses based on a broad integrative view of biological data... see www.biomind.com). - Ben Goertzel

RE: [agi] The Next Wave

2003-01-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin Copple wrote: It seems clear that AGI will be obtained in the foreseeable future. It also seems that it will be done with adequate safeguards against a runaway entity that will exterminate us humans. Likely it will remain under our control also. HOWEVER, this brings up another

RE: [agi] Friendliness toward humans

2003-01-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Ben Goertzel wrote: Since I'm too busy studying neuroscience, I simply don't have any time for learning operating systems. I will therefore either use the systems I know or the systems that require the least ammount of effort to learn regardless of their features. Alan, that sounds

RE: [agi] The Next Wave

2003-01-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Eliezer wrote: James Rogers wrote: Your intuition is correct, depending on how strict you are about knowledge. The intrinsic algorithmic information content of any machine is greater (sometimes much greater) than the algorithmic information content of its static state. The intrinsic

RE: [agi] The Next Wave

2003-01-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Kevin Copple wrote: Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression is that the talk here about AGI sense of self, AGI friendliness, and so on is quite premature. Attitudes on that vary, I think... I know that many AGI researchers agree with you, and think such issues are best deferred till after some

[agi] A New Kind of Science

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
resource bound issue. -- Ben Goertzel --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[agi] [Fwd: Robots and human emotions]

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Sensitive robots taught to gauge human emotion http://www.eet.com/story/OEG20030107S0033 NASHVILLE, Tenn. #151; Robotics designers are working with psychologists here at Vanderbilt University to improve human-machine interfaces by teaching robots to sense human emotions. Such sensitive robots

Re: [agi] A New Kind of Science

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
At www.santafe.edu/~shalizi/notebooks/ cellular-automata.html Wolfram's book is reviewed as a rare blend of monster raving egomania and utter batshit insanity ... (a phrase I would like to have emblazoned on my gravestone, except that I don't plan on dying, and if I do die I plan on being

Re: [agi] AI and computation (was: The Next Wave)

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Shane Legg wrote, responding to Pei Wang: Perhaps where our difference is best highlighted is in the following quote that you use: “something can be computational at one level, but not at another level” [Hofstadter, 1985] To this I would say: Something can LOOK like computation

RE: [agi] AI and computation (was: The Next Wave)

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Pei: For that level issue, one way to see it is through the concept of virtual machine. We all know that at a low level computer only has procedural language and binary data, but at a high level it has non-procedural language (such as functional or logical languages) and decimal data.

RE: [agi] AI and computation (was: The Next Wave)

2003-01-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Pei wrote: Right. Again let's use NARS as a concrete example. It can answer questions, but if you ask the same question twice to the system at different time, you may get different answers. In this sense, there is no algorithm that takes the question as input, and produces an unique

RE: [agi] AI and computation (was: The Next Wave)

2003-01-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Once again, the interesting question is not Is NARS a TM?, but Is NARS a TM with respect to problem P? If the problem is To answer Ben's email on `AI and compuation', then the system is not a TM (though it may be a TM in many other senses). For this reason, to discuss the computability

RE: [agi] The Metamorphosis of Prime Intellect

2003-01-14 Thread Ben Goertzel
In Novamente, this skeptical attitude has two aspects: 1) very high level schemata that must be taught not programmed 2) some basic parameter settings that will statistically tend to incline the system toward skepticism of its own conclusions [but you can't turn the dial too far in

RE: [agi] C-T Thesis (or a version thereof) - Is it useable as an in-principle argument for strong AI?

2003-01-15 Thread Ben Goertzel
If this physical interpretation of the Church-Turing thesis is accepted then it follows that if the physical brain and its operation is a well defined process then it must be possible to implement the process that the brain carries out on a Turing machine. This is the claim of Strong AI.

RE: [agi] Unmasking Intelligence.

2003-01-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
SYMETRY: All output channels are associated with at least one input/feedback mechanism. SEMANTIC RELATIVITY: The primary symantic foundation of the system is the input and output systems. (almost everything is expressed in terms of input and output at some level..) TEMPORALITY: Both input

[agi] META: Alan, please cool it...

2003-01-17 Thread Ben Goertzel
the list out of annoyance at your posts... -- Ben Goertzel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alan Grimes Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 7:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [agi] Subordinant Intelligence om ATTN: Members

[agi] META: Alan, please cool it...

2003-01-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hey Kevin, I am not unsubbing anyone! This is my first time running a public list, so please be tolerant ... I'm sure I'll get it down to a science in time ;) Since I made that first post regarding Alan, I have received two messages from people telling me how interesting and useful they found

RE: [agi] Jane

2003-01-21 Thread Ben Goertzel
iential learning" theme in which an AI gains intelligence through living in, and acting and interacting in, the world. -- Ben Goertzel -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of C. David NozigliaSent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51

RE: [agi] An Artificial General Intelligence in the Making

2003-01-31 Thread Ben Goertzel
ECTED]Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:21 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [agi] An Artificial General Intelligence in the MakingNearly finished reading "An Artificial General Intelligence in the Making" Ben Goertzel, et. al. (Lost the link, because I saved it to my local HD.)M

RE: [agi] Cosmodelia's posts: Music and Artificial Intelligence;Jane;

2003-02-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Spirit isn't emergent, and isn't everywhere, and isn't a figment of the imagination, and isn't supernatural. Spirit refers to a real thing, with a real explanation; it's just that the explanation is very, very difficult. -- Eliezer S. Yudkowsky http://singinst.org/

RE: [agi] An Artificial General Intelligence in the Making

2003-02-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Title: Message Mapping NL into logical format is very hard; the hard part is not choosing the textual representation of the logic, the hard part is have the computer program understand the natural language in the first place!!! Yeah, I do have some ideas on how this could be accomplished,

RE: [agi] A thought.

2003-02-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
To me, the weaving-together of components with truly general intelligence capability, and specialized-intelligence components built on top of these, is the essence of AGI design. -- Ben Goertzel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Eliezer

RE: [agi] A thought.

2003-02-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
picture I'm painting, of the interweaving of generality and specialization in the mind. But I think this kind of complicatedness is the lot of a finite mind in a (comparatively) essentially unboundedly complex universe... -- Ben Goertzel --- To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-09 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi Philip, I agree that a functionally-specialized Ethics Unit could make sense in an advanced Novamente configuration. Essentially, it would just be a unit concerned with GoalNode refinement -- creation of new GoalNodes embodying subgoals of the GoalNodes embodying basic ethical principles.

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
My idea is that action-framing and environment-monitoring are carried out in a unified way in Units assigned to these tasks generically. ..ethical thought gets to affect system behavior indirectly through a), via ethically-motivated GoalNodes, both general ones and

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Michael Anissimov wrote: Philip Sutton wrote: Maybe we need to think about an 'ethics system' that is woven into the whole Novamente architecture and processes. How about a benevolence-capped goal system where all the AI's actions flow from a single supergoal? That way you aren't adding

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
the same, and my children don't interpret them exactly the same as me in spite of my explicit implicit moral instruction. Similarly, an AGI will certainly have its own special twist on the theme... -- Ben G Ben Goertzel wrote: However, it's to be expected that an AGI's ethics

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
I think discussing ethics in terms of goals leads to confusion. As I described in an earlier post at: http://www.mail-archive.com/agi@v2.listbox.com/msg00390.html reasoning must be grounded in learning and goals must be grounded in values (i.e., the values used to reinforce behaviors in

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Right, that statement was directed towards Philip Sutton's mail, but I appreciate your stepping in to clarify. Of course, whether AIs with substantially prehuman (low) intelligence can have goals that deserve being called ethical or unethical is a matter of word choice and definitions.

RE: [agi] Context

2003-02-10 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, I see that Novamente has Context and NumericalContext Links, but I'm wondering if something more is needed to handle the various subtypes of context? yeah, those link types just deal with certain special situations, they are not the whole of Novamente's contextuality-handling mechanism,

RE: [agi] AGI morality

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Bill Hibbard wrote: On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Ben Goertzel wrote: A goal in Novamente is a kind of predicate, which is just a function that assigns a value in [0,1] to each input situation it observes... i.e. it's a 'valuation' ;-) Interesting. Are these values used

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Eliezer wrote: * a paper by Marcus Hutter giving a Solomonoff induction based theory of general intelligence Interesting you should mention that. I recently read through Marcus Hutter's AIXI paper, and while Marcus Hutter has done valuable work on a formal definition of intelligence,

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
2) While an AIXI-tl of limited physical and cognitive capabilities might serve as a useful tool, AIXI is unFriendly and cannot be made Friendly regardless of *any* pattern of reinforcement delivered during childhood. Before I post further, is there *anyone* who sees this besides me?

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ben Goertzel Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI The formality of Hutter's definitions can give the impression that they cannot evolve. But they are open

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
The harmfulness or benevolence of an AIXI system is therefore closely tied to the definition of the goal that is given to the system in advance. Actually, Ben, AIXI and AIXI-tl are both formal systems; there is no internal component in that formal system corresponding to a goal

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Huh. We may not be on the same page. Using: http://www.idsia.ch/~marcus/ai/aixigentle.pdf Page 5: The general framework for AI might be viewed as the design and study of intelligent agents [RN95]. An agent is a cybernetic system with some internal state, which acts with output yk on

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Given this, would you regard AIXI as formally approximating the kind of goal learning that Novamente is supposed to do? Sorta.. but goal-learning is not the complete motivational structure of Novamente... just one aspect As Definition 10 makes clear, intelligence is defined relative to

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, The reason I asked the question was not to ask whether AIXI is pragmatically better as a design strategy than Novamente. What I was asking you rather is if, looking at AIXI, you see something *missing* that would be present in Novamente. In other words, *if* you had an infinitely

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
Oh, well, in that case, I'll make my statement more formal: There exists a physically realizable, humanly understandable challenge C on which a tl-bounded human outperforms AIXI-tl for humanly understandable reasons. Or even more formally, there exists a computable process P which, given

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
So what clever loophole are you invoking?? ;-) An intuitively fair, physically realizable challenge with important real-world analogues, solvable by the use of rational cognitive reasoning inaccessible to AIXI-tl, with success strictly defined by reward (not a Friendliness-related issue).

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI

2003-02-11 Thread Ben Goertzel
It seems to me that this answer *assumes* that Hutter's work is completely right, an assumption in conflict with the uneasiness you express in your previous email. It's right as mathematics... I don't think his definition of intelligence is the maximally useful one, though I think it's a

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI... and Novamente?

2003-02-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
I can spot the problem in AIXI because I have practice looking for silent failures, because I have an underlying theory that makes it immediately obvious which useful properties are formally missing from AIXI, and because I have a specific fleshed-out idea for how to create moral systems

RE: [agi] unFriendly AIXI... and Novamente?

2003-02-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Your intuitions say... I am trying to summarize my impression of your viewpoint, please feel free to correct me... AI morality is a matter of experiential learning, not just for the AI, but for the programmers. Also, we plan to start Novamente off with some initial goals embodying ethical

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