neither
>.ttb nor .tts appear used at the current time.
>
>This is certainly not intended to be an exhaustive list of possibilities,
>but I would like to limit discussion to viable three letter extensions.
>
>I agree with Andrew C Aitchison that the .sfn ext
r of
manpower working on each, and with IHV pressure also being quite
different for each.
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nt to
attach them to the report as well, or point people to a URL where
to download them. To determine which binary files are needed,
simply take a 4.3.0 installation, and install your driver over
top of the supplied one. You may need other modules updated as
well.
Hope this helps.
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he business, legal, copyright/trademark/patent, or engineering
costs and other factors that affect these types of decisions in
companies out there. Try to look at things from the angle of the
given company out there for once.
And really, the XFree86 project has absolutely zero control over
any of this, so why bitch about it here where NOBODY can remotely
do anything about it?
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1 herbs and spices here, and the secret sauce. Pretty
soon, half of the KFC customers have no need to go to KFC as they
can make it at home.
By the way, I have a recipe for chicken that
"tastes very similar to, but is not KFC". I wonder if someone
let the cat out of the bag at KFC one day, and this is the
Colonel's secret recipe?
Who knows. The chances of reverse engineering the kernel
microcode engine from one of these drivers however is even much
more likely than reverse engineering the KFC recipe by analyzing
the molecular structure of the crispy crust.
Good luck I say.
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s to back up this opinion, and I very well could be very
wrong. I'll also likely change my opinion in 12 months, and then
again every 4 to 6 months after that, as Linux's mainstream
desktop usage curve increases.
BTW, XFree86 has a module API ;o)
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3.0
compatible drivers on the website (last I checked anyway),
although there are on a German website.
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urchase card A and B above and find B works best for
you, and A does not work well at all, just as many other people
out there are likely to buy card A and B and find card A works
better for them.
That is what I see by analyzing postings to the XFree86 mailing
lists, 2 bugzilla databases, a
n eloquent way of describing this
stuff. ;o) I'll have to save your post so I can forward it to
the next person who starts the same flamewar in 2 weeks. ;o)
You sure hit the nail right on the head, and this is what the
average person really doesn't understand IMHO.
Good post!
TTYL
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, and tell them which video hardware vendor is
your preference.
When the masses of people out there can convince one or more of
the major computer IHV's to officially support Linux, this whole
debate will start to become moot. Until then, don't count on
much changing though. That might not taste good to swallow, but
it is an honest reality... at least of course IMHO.
I could be wrong though, perhaps tomorrow, we'll see a major
announcement from all top video vendors on slashdot announcing
they've released their source code because the number of Linux
systems has skyrocketed over night from 0.01% of sales to
50%.
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;t enough people letting them
>>know that there is an interest (OOPS that would be BITCHING!).
>
>And even if EVERY person let them kinow there was an interest, it still
>wouldn't be enough. There just aren't enough of us.
Sigh
sly well over a
>Million dollars revenue per engineer. One man year of extra work
>is generally expected to generate at least a Million extra dollars
>of revenue. If a particular market can't generate that, resources
>are best allocated to another project.
That backs up what I'
on't use Linux to view the final rendering. They
>probably use a Mac (Apple OS of some kind) or a PC running
>Windows.
Search google for Dreamworks SKG stories involving Linux. You'll
be surprised.
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ver however, it's very
hard to say.
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e wanted to know my response, I'll be glad to email it to
them. ;o)
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via email.
Anyone who is offended by that, can contact me for $60/hour on
the weekends and I'll help them, because just like all open
source development that occurs, it is either motivated by
volunteerism satisfaction or other personal motivations which are
a positive experience, or it is motivated by money.
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cally possible at least, it isn't something that would be
easy to solve due to the many complexities involved. And too
many people are biased to one side or the other to care about the
concerns of the other side, making it not even on the
consideration radar.
At least that's how I see it.
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nting out that Linux not only thrives in the movie studio
market, but that it is basically taking over that market
entirely. Not overnight, but very increasingly every day. I
provided Dreamworks as just a single example of a movie studio
that uses L
video drivers, you'll
basically have to select hardware to which the specs are
publically available to everyone, such as 3Dfx Voodoo 3, Banshee,
Cyrix MediaGX, some older Intel boards, etc.
Video hardware vendors generally speaking do not allow public
non-NDA access to video hardware docume
;http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
I am on vacation currently, and will not be in the office for a
while. If this matter is urgent. *cough* please try sending it
again to waste even more bandwidth on the net and slow things
down even more than the viruses spreading around al
ngs I can write up something
I think might work best for the project itself, and then submit
the patch which allows distro overrides to that text to
bugzilla, and David or someone can review and modify to taste and
commit it if they deem it a sensible addition.
nvention of
using Red Hat specific patches not intended to be submitted
upstream in the form XFree86-a.b.c-redhat-foo.patch I made
comments in our spec file to explain this, so people are clearer
that these patches are not intended for upstream, but they
my patches upstream, please contact me first to
find out what my own plans are. I generally send patches
upstream myself personally when I feel they are ready to be
included upstream. If I haven't, it is a good idea to ask me why
not first. I can save you some headaches.
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and are not suitable for XFree86.org. Don't waste
their time please.
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o happen, at least
from 4.3.0 codebase (not sure about current CVS head), but they
need to be done in a clean manner.
I intend to go through everywhere in the server and clean up
anything I find at some point, and then send a proper patch in to
fix it all, unless someone beats me to it.
The mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/04/03 08:20:24
Log message:
35. Allow an arbitary message to be sent to the DDX by pressing a key
which has the appropriate action definition (#5519, Joe Moss).
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o, but it is the beginning of one. Right now, you cannot specify the
>device driver you want to talk to; you specify the Display and screen.
>But it certainly can be generalized, so any device driver can
>receive/reply to messages.
Ok, I see what's perceived as missing now.
istribution to provide the GPL driver, or will have to compile
it themselves.
The only other option would be for someone to write a brand new
driver for synaptics and license it as MIT, without looking at
the GPL driver's source code. It's possible to do a clean room
implementat
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Daniel Stone wrote:
>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:30:58 +1000
>From: Daniel Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Mike A. Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
> protocol="a
people think
you can just relicense code on a whim if you're the author,
regardless of wether your work contains GPL'd bits from other
things or not.
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ically. It's entirely up to an application or
intermediate windowing toolkit wether or not there is a concept
of double clicking the mouse. You need to consult the
documentation for the toolkit you're using, ie: GTK+/Qt/etc.
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long l;} jmp_buf;
>
>Yes, I thought of that too, but "long long" isn't portable, right?
>Plus it still leaves us guessing we've covered the requirements.
long long is ISO C99
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it PID, or
perhaps 64bit PID even. It's also likely some OS's out there
don't have a concept of a PID, such as running Desqview/X on an
MSDOS system. Granted, that's an unlikely scenario in modern
times, but I'm not sure relying on a PID being available or
relying on a POS
would be either making XFree86 install them into
/usr/lib/pkg-config by default, or making the default
configuration file for pkgconfig contain the X11 pkgconfig
directory.
Thoughts?
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s of our distribution however if that is
considered more correct or clean though.
I'm not sure how useful *.pc files installed in directories
unused by all systems out there are either though. ;o)
Should the /usr/X11R6 heirarchy be added to pkgconfig's default
config?
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ew, xclock, etc. which could be separated out, or in some
cases just dropped completely IMHO.
Again, sorry to be pedantic.. ;o) Just don't want people to
think our XFree tarball isn't pristine. ;o)
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l thing to do in the upstream
XFree86 as well, please let me know and I'll be sure to
submit the end result for possible inclusion in 4.4.0.
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__
e of ATI adapters at least, if the driver doesn't properly detect
>> video memory size, I'd consider it a bug.
>
>Marc.
Ok, thanks Marc, this is a case in point of what I'm wanting to
do.
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ware I know autodetects properly.
Config tool bugs/misfeatures are a totally secondary issue, and
that definitely needs to be addressed also, however you can't
easily fix things that are widely deployed on tens of thousands
of systems. You can fix things for the future only.
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it yourself. Without
the hardware specifications, nobody can easily answer your
question without reverse engineering it themselves, because
every piece of hardware will work differently. If all
touchscreens output the same data, then there would only need to
be one driver, and you wouldn't need
ay details too.
>And everything else is left up to the Vendor to implement in their
>own config program.
That sounds perfectly fine. And "vendor" in this sense could
mean anything from "open source project (including XFree86)" to
"OS vendor" to "video hardware vendor".
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which I consider relevant and
not just pedantic bickering and hypothetical situations, I'm very
open minded about fixing problems in ways that benefit people, as
long as it doesn't cause more work for me overall due to support
problems and bug reports received.
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HO for the future, is a
unified tool which can use either GTK+ or Qt, and is distribution
neutral. That would allow every distro to contribute to one
tool, rather that the current mess of everyone shipping their own
custom made GTK/Qt tool.
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tch
onto that bug report, you might find my previous suggestion of
using the 4.2.1 video driver in 4.3.0 to be a useable workaround
for now.
Hope this helps.
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?"
Of course I rarely respond, but the answer I'm thinking in my
mind - the true answer, is "You need to go backwards in time, and
remove your last comment from the bug report so that when time
moves forward again, I have never s
ther a patch to correct the behaviour?
http://bugs.xfree86.org/show_bug.cgi?id=778 has John's patch that
fixes this.
Thanks Keith,
TTYL
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ly. Nothing that can't be overcome in the future.
For video games and 3D however (to get back on specific topic),
proprietary drivers that implement all of the hardware's special
do-dads are very likely to always outperform the OSS drivers,
simply because mor
drivers, or doing some algorithmic and/or assembler optimizations
here and there.
IMHO, what is most important isn't chitter chatter rumours.
What is important, is asking a particular
person/user/admin/whatever what problem they are specifically
experiencing which a perceived performance probl
tart at boot time. You can also use "service xfs start" to
start it from the command prompt.
If it does not start, look in /var/log/messages and you will find
out why it is not starting.
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r skewing their testing.
In short, benchmarks and similar tests are only one thing, and
the information they provide is not 100% conclusive all around
in a general sense.
>Will you help me show the magic in XFree86? The jaw dropping
>si
if the disk is full, the disk is
full. I seem to recall xfs was updated to do this anyway, but
I'd have to do a test setup to confirm it. Not a priority...
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ve :)
Feel free to implement it, and then fix all window managers and
other affected applications out there, then propose it as an
enhancement if you like.
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tall xfs from now on, will have
it enabled by default (and it has TCP disabled also by default),
and those who don't actually want to use it or need it, can
disable it themselves as an end user configuration customization.
I feel this makes life the easiest for the largest amount
hat it would indeed be
useful for various niche users and power users, so might be worth
having some kind of support for it.
Seems scary though.. and would make it interesting to work out
exactly how/what the swcursor/hwcursor options end up doing...
;o)
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stable branch, or at least
committed in separate steps to make changes more apparent for
review and backporting, etc.
Just some feedback and a polite request for the future.
TIA
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OS Systems Engineer - XFree86 maintainer - Red Hat
_
leged problem, wether it even really is a problem at
all, how important it is, what other solutions there might be,
etc. etc. etc.
All of this "lets stuff things in the kernel, because kernel code
is automatically 20000 times faster right?" stuff gets boring
fast.
Show me the code.
-
ts
unconditionally and if you don't want/need it - you know that,
and you have the technical skill most likely to disable it easily
enough and get your $0.0001 worth of memory wastage back. ;o)
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al if all other options in
the X server followed suit, and thus remove all redundant options
at once. There is a lot of redundancy in the config file syntax.
That was purported as a feature way back when I presume, and it's
debateable wether or not it was a good thing or a bad thing I
guess. ;o)
Hopefully it doesn't change majorly between non-major X server
generations, as that makes upgrades a PITA. ;o)
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86 source tree, and
"xc" is a copy of the tree with your modifications. There are
other methods of generating unified diffs which are faster and/or
use less disk space, but this one is the easiest to explain.
Hope this helps.
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me to time for your opinion to matter
much to me about pretty much anything anyway.
I'm surprised that I haven't procmailed you to /dev/null yet.
And to be quite honest, I'd be more than happy if you'd do the
same to me, if for no other reason than I'd see both less of yo
re. Why
>don't you spread your good cheer?
I've yet to see a single developer of anything stand up and shout
that they prefer some other format of diff other than unified
diff.
I'm not particularly interested in your opinion nor your banter
in any case.
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quite complete IIRC in 4.3.0 at least.
If DRI is disabled, then the Radeon driver will use the older
MMIO mechanism to do 2D acceleration. I don't know what if any
of the other drivers will use DRI for 2D or Xvideo currently,
however any hardware that supports using DMA/IRQ for 2D
accelration or
ody has done it yet other than in the
Radeon driver where it has a real good use.
I also think at least theoretically that Xv could benefit from
using DRI on more hardware, but I also think that is only
feasible for hardware in which there is existing and working DRI
3D acceleration.
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ze of the database.
In that light, I'd consider bugzilla quite a success so far, even
if it doesn't even exist to some developers. ;o)
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uring ``make all´´, I had this problem, and the very reason
>was, that my /usr/bin/cpp could not have been found due to a
>permission inconsistency.
make World WORLDOPTS=""
will cause the build to fail immediately in all versions of
XFree86. I believe this has been made the default
or libXau, and some other libs. We experienced a problem
where shared libs trying to link to static libs caused
application failures due to non-PIC code being used. I'll have
to have a look at this soon and port forward to HEAD if need be,
and
la
has worked as well as it has, and I'd like to thank everyone both
at XFree86.org, and in the community for all the contributions
people have made, both reporting bugs, supplying patches, helping
track down various issues, and committing fixes to CVS, etc.,
etc.
Good work to everyone who has co
the DISPLAY variable and xhost
>+ on the other machine. But if the program is already running, is it
>possible to do the equivalent? If this isn't possible currently, it
>would be a really great thing to have in the future.
Search google for the applications xmove and x2x, a
missing something?
Search cvs-commits list archives, and/or use the cvsps tool to
generate patchsets. You can find the latter with google. The
documentation blows goats but the tool works awesome once you
mess with it for hours and hours wasting time until you figure
out the right magic. ;o)
de. For many of the drivers, EnterVT and
>LeaveVT looks the same; they just call into other functions within that
>driver.
Indeed. I think the key part of your message, and I'm in
complete concurrence with you, is "read the source Luke". ;o)
For the benefit of the original poster, the source of the drivers
is in:
xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers
The source of the Nvidia proprietary drivers is in:
/dev/null
;o)
Hope this helps.
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n the other hand, if it turns out nobody really uses it anymore,
it might be best to just drop it from our distribution. I
haven't used it in many years myself now, and kindof assumed most
people use other mechanisms nowadays too, but didn't want to
remove it and face the wrat
is an
>>application interface that gets called from user-mode.
>
>Even if I can't use DGA directly, the source should provide
>information on how to handle the hardware, so that would help me
>also. I have to take a look at these.
Look at the driver source in XFree86 for foo_dga.c files for
example stuff.
Hope this helps. Good luck with your work!
Take care,
TTYL
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kely the 2D XFree86 "nv"
driver source code, and whatever might be in the Linux kernel
framebuffer driver, or BSD et al. Since no docs are available
for this hardware though, you may have a tough time doing
anything with it without the aide of someone familiar with the
hardware. Wish you the best of luck nonetheless.
Take care,
TTYL
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gt;bugzilla (for inclusion post-4.4 timeframe). If not, base your decision
>on whether or not RedHat wants to continue supporting it.
I guess that's as good a way as any to determine wether it is
useful.
Any Linux or BSD vendors or distributions out t
considered too late at this point though,
but most Linux and other OS distributions I think ship the newer
fontconfigs for quite a while now, so it shouldn't be too hard to
find prebuilt packages for many OS's also.
Take care,
TTYL
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er reason I'm missing as to why the driver is so
obfuscated?
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and worked on other projects?
Seems every time someone asks for information on how something
works in the codebase that they don't understand, or asks for
clarification on something, they can't get a straight or clear
answer.
It's really no wonder volunt
y response
didn't take my original mail into account either, of which I had
forgotten my wording.
My apologies for the flame.
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ymbolic names is like surfing the web with IP
addresses only, the obvious difference to this analogy being that
domain names don't always remain pointing to the same IP address.
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ctive existing driver maintainers. Let's hope
and pray that none of the existing maintainers gets hit by a bus,
or we're screwed. ;o)
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ot useful as far as development is concerned. Let's
just respectfully agree to disagree with each other on coding
practice, and move on without further discussion.
Thanks.
Respectfully yours,
TTYL
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Intel video related issues.
If someone from Intel could forward this to the proper person,
or anyone else reading this who knows whom I should contact, and
could provide me with an Intel email address contact, I'd greatly
appreciate it.
TIA
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Has something changed recently with how cvsup access to the
repository is handled? Any help appreciated.
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cvs/cvsup login
cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/cvsup co xc
If anyone notices any problems accessing the cvs repository
mirror, or detects it being out of date, etc., please email
myself or one of the other freedesktop.org admins, and we'll fix
things up ASAP. There have been a few glitches, but I think I've
got them ironed out now.
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ter cvsup server refuses authentication
>
>Mike A. Harris wrote:
>>
>> It worked up until November first according to my cvsup cronjob
>> logs, at which point it just stopped. However, now that you
>> mention it, I don't remember ever seeing any public announceme
ately revoke my
access to it, and notify me of the change if you'd be so kind.
I would much prefer that over surprises like this.
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g "startx" and if it fails,
please put your X server log and config file somewhere viewable
via http or ftp, and post URLs to the files here.
It's possible your particular video card model is not supported,
however I'll need the above info first in order to
determine/ad
e interesting to discuss any suggestions for improvement,
etc. on the xserver mailing list on fd.o also, as things are in
development and not locked in stone currently, and feedback is
always appreciated by developers.
Hope this helps.
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odules first. Using multiple config files (or a single well
crafted file), you can switch between drivers by using startx
with commandline options.
Hope this helps.
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funky.
Other commands may use commandline switches such as -version,
--version, -v, -V, --help or similar. Check the documentation
for a given command to see if it has a method to display it's
version number. Most applications do, however there is no one
method that works with all software.
tic-only
default libs are affected. Hopefully 4.4.0 changes all static
libs in an incompatible way to encourage people to not override
XFree86's defaults for shared libraries. ;o)
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at have 4.3.0 installed. A necessary pain of course that can't
really be avoided however, but it's going to be a fun time with
bug reports. ;o)
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ns the latest kdrive source code, which you may wish to use
instead if you're doing new development, as the source is much
newer than what is in XFree86 CVS currently.
There's a separate development list on freedesktop.org for
discussion of 'kdrive' X server devel
straighten such matters out in a polite and rational
fashion. It's just common courtesy to everyone involved in the
particular code, wether that is kernel code, XFree86 code, or
code from elsewhere.
Just some personal thoughts...
TTYL
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.
I dunno if anyone has put together a web page with copies of
legally obtained and redistributable video hardware
specifications (or hyperlinks to them) or not, but perhaps
someone else here knows of such a web page. If not, you might
want to search google thoug
S should provide a
mechanism for detecting the cases where the X server dies
immediately, such as a SEGV, and then tries to start a
minimal preconfigured "safe mode" of sorts. This could be done
using a driver based-upon the vesa driver. Something akin to
Microsoft's "VGASAVE" driver used in Windows' safe-mode.
Just a thought.
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ywhere, with a
sign on the door which reads:
"Beware of the leopard"
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first glance. While the driver is fairly cryptic to many eyes,
it is none the less there, and maintained by Mark at Nvidia.
Of course that's not 3D code, and your statements above mostly
concerned 3D related things, but I wanted to at least clarify
this point for those who otherwise mig
a way the Xwrapper to connect to kdm and not xdm. Any ideas?
The Xwrapper source code.
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ers, perhaps swinging it from a crane
to break a window or something.
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