Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Paul Libbrecht]

On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:03, Guillaume Delhumeau wrote:

> Do we know a single person that have different logos in the different
> spaces of the same wiki?

A colleague of mine asked me such on our wiki.
It is not very common though (so it’d be ok if it’s a programming task).

paul

> I've never met any, but I don't know all users.
>
> To me, it just creates confusion for 99% of users, for the sake of helping
> 1% of them (supposing they know how to do it).
>
> That would be ok if that 1% were contributors to XWiki, but it does not
> seem to be the situation.
>
> My proposal is to have a single input, for the logo of the current wiki
> (subwikis can fallback to the main one), et trash all the other options.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Guillaume


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Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Guillaume Delhumeau]

2018-02-21 18:57 GMT+01:00 Vincent Massol :

>
>
> > On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:03, Guillaume Delhumeau <
> guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com> wrote:
> >
> > Do we know a single person that have different logos in the different
> > spaces of the same wiki?
> >
> > I've never met any, but I don't know all users.
> >
> > To me, it just creates confusion for 99% of users, for the sake of
> helping
> > 1% of them (supposing they know how to do it).
> >
> > That would be ok if that 1% were contributors to XWiki, but it does not
> > seem to be the situation.
> >
> > My proposal is to have a single input, for the logo of the current wiki
> > (subwikis can fallback to the main one), et trash all the other options.
>
> If XWiki wasn’t a platform I’d agree. However it’s a platform so we need
> the ability.


You still have the ability to override the skin.


> Thus we just need to make the main use case (the 99%) extra easy and
> simple and hide the advanced options so that users don’t see them by
> default but so that it’s still possible.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
> >
> > My 2 cents,
> >
> > Guillaume
>
>


-- 
Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:57, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:03, Guillaume Delhumeau 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Do we know a single person that have different logos in the different
>> spaces of the same wiki?
>> 
>> I've never met any, but I don't know all users.
>> 
>> To me, it just creates confusion for 99% of users, for the sake of helping
>> 1% of them (supposing they know how to do it).
>> 
>> That would be ok if that 1% were contributors to XWiki, but it does not
>> seem to be the situation.
>> 
>> My proposal is to have a single input, for the logo of the current wiki
>> (subwikis can fallback to the main one), et trash all the other options.
> 
> If XWiki wasn’t a platform I’d agree. However it’s a platform so we need the 
> ability. Thus we just need to make the main use case (the 99%) extra easy and 
> simple and hide the advanced options so that users don’t see them by default 
> but so that it’s still possible.

BTW, for me it falls in the same category of having some custom skin for a page 
or for a space and I have personally used this feature in the past (and was 
happy to find it when I needed it).

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> 
> 
>> 
>> My 2 cents,
>> 
>> Guillaume

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

> On 21 Feb 2018, at 18:03, Guillaume Delhumeau  
> wrote:
> 
> Do we know a single person that have different logos in the different
> spaces of the same wiki?
> 
> I've never met any, but I don't know all users.
> 
> To me, it just creates confusion for 99% of users, for the sake of helping
> 1% of them (supposing they know how to do it).
> 
> That would be ok if that 1% were contributors to XWiki, but it does not
> seem to be the situation.
> 
> My proposal is to have a single input, for the logo of the current wiki
> (subwikis can fallback to the main one), et trash all the other options.

If XWiki wasn’t a platform I’d agree. However it’s a platform so we need the 
ability. Thus we just need to make the main use case (the 99%) extra easy and 
simple and hide the advanced options so that users don’t see them by default 
but so that it’s still possible.

Thanks
-Vincent


> 
> My 2 cents,
> 
> Guillaume

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Guillaume Delhumeau]

Do we know a single person that have different logos in the different
spaces of the same wiki?

I've never met any, but I don't know all users.

To me, it just creates confusion for 99% of users, for the sake of helping
1% of them (supposing they know how to do it).

That would be ok if that 1% were contributors to XWiki, but it does not
seem to be the situation.

My proposal is to have a single input, for the logo of the current wiki
(subwikis can fallback to the main one), et trash all the other options.

My 2 cents,

Guillaume

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:23 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:32 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> > mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not
> > > straightforward
> > > to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user
> > change
> > > the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user
> > still
> > > needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or
> to
> > > the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
> > > places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
> > > sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.
> > >
> >
> > It doesn't fix the solution entirely, but allows the user to set his logo
> > as the default logo. We should try to remove the overwrites from the
> skin /
> > color themes and fallback on the default logo. Overwriting the logo from
> > skin/color theme/space will still be possible, but this should be used
> only
> > in advanced use cases.
> >
> > Currently we are providing too many XWiki logos in the custom Color
> Themes
> > (for example in the case of dark colors) and we duplicate the logo in all
> > these places, forcing the user to know the priority order.
> > Currently there is no UI to change the default logo. You can only change
> it
> > from the file system.
> > From the Administration, the user instead of changing the Skin logo, go
> to
> > the CT. This could also be improved by: (A) making sure the Skin logo is
> as
> > easy to change as the one from CT, (B) maybe change the order of
> displayed
> > configurations from (Default Logo, CT, Icon Themes, Skin) to (Default
> Logo,
> > Skin, CT, Icon Themes) - this order would better present the priority
> > order, but it would put on a lower place the CT change, which is quite
> > often and popular.
> >
> > ---
> > So for this proposal we had Thomas, Alex, Guillaume, Vincent, me agreed.
> > Marius, let me know if you have other questions / suggestions.
> >
>
> My worry is that if we don't remove the logo from the default color themes
> then the users will complain that "they set the logo from the
> Administration and it doesn't have any effect". Another solution is to show
> what is the current logo in this new section and indicate where it comes
> from (e.g. from color theme).
>

The default logo will come from file system or the base skin or the new
page Vincent proposed. It will not be the current logo, but the default
logo.
I don't think we can remove the logo from the color themes. It is powerful
when you want to provide user/space/wiki diversity. But those cases are
advanced, so whomever is having such an advanced setup might need to know
what they are doing.

The "show where is coming from" idea is interesting.
Instead of "default logo" we could display the "current logo" with a
"Customize" button near it, and depending where this logo comes from, to
take the user to that logo attachment selector modal, either in the skin or
color theme, space, wiki, etc. Not sure how hard it is to implement and if
that behavior won't be again confusing, without explaining our
inheritance/priority logo selection mechanism.

Thanks,
Caty


>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and
> > algorithm
> > > > for selecting which logo to use:
> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> > > IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
> > > >
> > > > Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages
> > support
> > > > (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> > > > Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> > > > default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere
> > in
> > > > the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on
> the
> > > > main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
> > > >
> > > > Let us know what you think.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > -Vincent
> > > >
> > > > > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > vali...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol <
> vinc...@massol.net
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Caty,
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > vali...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <
> > vinc...@massol.net
> > > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > >  Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > vali...@gmail.com>
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Marius Dumitru Florea]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
vali...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:32 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not
> > straightforward
> > to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user
> change
> > the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user
> still
> > needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or to
> > the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
> > places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
> > sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.
> >
>
> It doesn't fix the solution entirely, but allows the user to set his logo
> as the default logo. We should try to remove the overwrites from the skin /
> color themes and fallback on the default logo. Overwriting the logo from
> skin/color theme/space will still be possible, but this should be used only
> in advanced use cases.
>
> Currently we are providing too many XWiki logos in the custom Color Themes
> (for example in the case of dark colors) and we duplicate the logo in all
> these places, forcing the user to know the priority order.
> Currently there is no UI to change the default logo. You can only change it
> from the file system.
> From the Administration, the user instead of changing the Skin logo, go to
> the CT. This could also be improved by: (A) making sure the Skin logo is as
> easy to change as the one from CT, (B) maybe change the order of displayed
> configurations from (Default Logo, CT, Icon Themes, Skin) to (Default Logo,
> Skin, CT, Icon Themes) - this order would better present the priority
> order, but it would put on a lower place the CT change, which is quite
> often and popular.
>
> ---
> So for this proposal we had Thomas, Alex, Guillaume, Vincent, me agreed.
> Marius, let me know if you have other questions / suggestions.
>

My worry is that if we don't remove the logo from the default color themes
then the users will complain that "they set the logo from the
Administration and it doesn't have any effect". Another solution is to show
what is the current logo in this new section and indicate where it comes
from (e.g. from color theme).


>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and
> algorithm
> > > for selecting which logo to use:
> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> > IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
> > >
> > > Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages
> support
> > > (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> > > Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> > > default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere
> in
> > > the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the
> > > main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
> > >
> > > Let us know what you think.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol  >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Caty,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > vali...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <
> vinc...@massol.net
> > >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > >  Hi,
> > > 
> > > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > vali...@gmail.com>
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <
> vinc...@massol.net
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi Caty,
> > > >>
> > > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> > > >> overridden
> > > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
> > > level”.
> > > >>
> > > >> Several questions:
> > > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> > > >> Using a
> > > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> > > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the
> > logo,
> > >  which
> > > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI,
> in
> > > >> skins
> > >  &
> > > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> > > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
> > > i.e.
> > > >> where is it materialized?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
> > > point
> > >  of
> > > > view.
> > > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo
> using
> > > >> this
> > > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:32 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:

> I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not
> straightforward
> to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user change
> the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user still
> needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or to
> the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
> places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
> sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.
>

It doesn't fix the solution entirely, but allows the user to set his logo
as the default logo. We should try to remove the overwrites from the skin /
color themes and fallback on the default logo. Overwriting the logo from
skin/color theme/space will still be possible, but this should be used only
in advanced use cases.

Currently we are providing too many XWiki logos in the custom Color Themes
(for example in the case of dark colors) and we duplicate the logo in all
these places, forcing the user to know the priority order.
Currently there is no UI to change the default logo. You can only change it
from the file system.
>From the Administration, the user instead of changing the Skin logo, go to
the CT. This could also be improved by: (A) making sure the Skin logo is as
easy to change as the one from CT, (B) maybe change the order of displayed
configurations from (Default Logo, CT, Icon Themes, Skin) to (Default Logo,
Skin, CT, Icon Themes) - this order would better present the priority
order, but it would put on a lower place the CT change, which is quite
often and popular.

---
So for this proposal we had Thomas, Alex, Guillaume, Vincent, me agreed.
Marius, let me know if you have other questions / suggestions.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and algorithm
> > for selecting which logo to use:
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
> >
> > Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages support
> > (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> > Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> > default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere in
> > the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the
> > main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
> >
> > Let us know what you think.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Caty,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol  >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Hi,
> > 
> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > vali...@gmail.com>
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol  >
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Caty,
> > >>
> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> > >> overridden
> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
> > level”.
> > >>
> > >> Several questions:
> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> > >> Using a
> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the
> logo,
> >  which
> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> > >> skins
> >  &
> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
> > i.e.
> > >> where is it materialized?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
> > point
> >  of
> > > view.
> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> > >> this
> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and
> the
> > >> skin
> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way
> the
> >  Color
> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> > >
> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways
> in
> >  XWiki
> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> > 
> >  Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a
> > vote)
> >  since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> >  changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> > >> ones,
> >  making the 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Marius Dumitru Florea]

I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not
straightforward
to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user change
the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user still
needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or to
the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and algorithm
> for selecting which logo to use:
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
>
> Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages support
> (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere in
> the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the
> main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
>
> Let us know what you think.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
>  Hi,
> 
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
>  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> >> overridden
> >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
> level”.
> >>
> >> Several questions:
> >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> >> Using a
> >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>  which
> >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> >> skins
>  &
> >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
> i.e.
> >> where is it materialized?
> >>
> >
> > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
> point
>  of
> > view.
> > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> >> this
> > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> >> skin
> > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>  Color
> > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >
> > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>  XWiki
> > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> 
>  Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a
> vote)
>  since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>  changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> >> ones,
>  making the situation even more complex…
> 
>  So for me we need to:
>  1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
> >> what
>  happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> >> would
>  use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> >> either?
>  2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin
> UI.
>  Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> >> attach
>  a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> >> adds
>  a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> 
> >>>
> >>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add
> an
> >>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically
> -
> >> I
> >>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> >>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> >>> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
> >>
> >> See my previous reply about this.
> >>
> >> So I now understand that your idea would be:
> >>
> >> Default system logo (Admin UI)
> >>  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
> >>|_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
> >>  |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
> >>|_ Space Color Theme logo
> >>
> >> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a
> logo
> >> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined
> and
> >> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
> >> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

Hi all,

After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and algorithm for 
selecting which logo to use:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1

Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages support (i.e. 
inherit WebPreferences).
Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide default 
logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere in the XWiki 
space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the main wiki to hold 
base skin overrides (from the FS).

Let us know what you think.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Caty,
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
 wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
 wrote:
> 
>> Hi Caty,
>> 
>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>> overridden
>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>> 
>> Several questions:
>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>> Using a
>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
 which
>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>> skins
 &
>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>> where is it materialized?
>> 
> 
> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
 of
> view.
> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>> this
> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>> skin
> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
 Color
> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> 
> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
 XWiki
> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
 
 Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
 since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
 changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>> ones,
 making the situation even more complex…
 
 So for me we need to:
 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>> what
 happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>> would
 use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>> either?
 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
 Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>> attach
 a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>> adds
 a logo to it? Does it do something else?
 
>>> 
>>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
>>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically -
>> I
>>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
>>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
>>> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
>> 
>> See my previous reply about this.
>> 
>> So I now understand that your idea would be:
>> 
>> Default system logo (Admin UI)
>>  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
>>|_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
>>  |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
>>|_ Space Color Theme logo
>> 
>> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo
>> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and
>> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
>> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the
>> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise,
>> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default
>> xwiki logo.
>> 
>> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s
>> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
>> 
> 
> Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and see
> which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have different
> Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
> If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the logo
> for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once. Again,
> nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, not in
> every other color theme that exists out there.
> 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
>
> > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
>  Hi Caty,
> 
>  I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> overridden
>  (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> 
>  Several questions:
>  * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> Using a
>  custom skin? Using a color theme?
>  * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> >> which
>  means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> skins
> >> &
>  in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>  * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>  where is it materialized?
> 
> >>>
> >>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> >> of
> >>> view.
> >>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> this
> >>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> skin
> >>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> >> Color
> >>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >>>
> >>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> >> XWiki
> >>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> >>
> >> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> >> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> >> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> ones,
> >> making the situation even more complex…
> >>
> >> So for me we need to:
> >> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
> what
> >> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> would
> >> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> either?
> >> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> >> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> attach
> >> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> adds
> >> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> >>
> >
> > It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
> > attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically -
> I
> > guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> > Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> > inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
>
> See my previous reply about this.
>
> So I now understand that your idea would be:
>
> Default system logo (Admin UI)
>   |_ Skin logo (Skin)
> |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
>   |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
> |_ Space Color Theme logo
>
> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo
> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and
> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the
> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise,
> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default
> xwiki logo.
>
> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s
> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
>

Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and see
which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have different
Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the logo
for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once. Again,
nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, not in
every other color theme that exists out there.


>
> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add new
> use cases if you see some that I have missed.
>
> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
> it
> >> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> >> Using a color theme?"
> >>
> >
> > The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
> > with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
> > can rephrase it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>>
> 
>  Thanks
>  -Vincent
> 
> > On 9 Feb 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

Hi Caty,


> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Caty,
 
 I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
 (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
 
 Several questions:
 * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
 custom skin? Using a color theme?
 * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> which
 means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
>> &
 in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
 * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
 where is it materialized?
 
>>> 
>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
>> of
>>> view.
>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> Color
>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>> 
>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> XWiki
>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>> 
>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
>> making the situation even more complex…
>> 
>> So for me we need to:
>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>> 
> 
> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically - I
> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.

See my previous reply about this.

So I now understand that your idea would be:

Default system logo (Admin UI)
  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
|_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
  |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
|_ Space Color Theme logo

In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo 
defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and 
that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a color 
theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki 
has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the default 
system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default xwiki logo.

However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s the 
rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?

See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add new use 
cases if you see some that I have missed.

Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> 
>> 
>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> Using a color theme?"
>> 
> 
> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
> can rephrase it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Caty
> 
> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>> 
>>> 
 
 Thanks
 -Vincent
 
> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
 wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>> tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>> issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> 
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
>> in
> Administration".
> 
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
>> to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
>> a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> 
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
vali...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
>> mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>>> vali...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> Hi Caty,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>>> overridden
>>> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
>>> level”.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Several questions:
>>> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>>> Using a
>>> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>>> > which
>>> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>>> skins
>>> > &
>>> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>>> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
>>> i.e.
>>> > >> where is it materialized?
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
>>> point
>>> > of
>>> > > view.
>>> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>>> this
>>> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>>> skin
>>> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>>> > Color
>>> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>> > >
>>> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>>> > XWiki
>>> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>>> >
>>> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a
>>> vote)
>>> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>>> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>>> ones,
>>> > making the situation even more complex…
>>> >
>>> > So for me we need to:
>>> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>>> what
>>> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>>> would
>>> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>>> either?
>>> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin
>>> UI.
>>> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>>> attach
>>> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>>> adds
>>> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>>> >
>>>
>>> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme
>>> defines
>>> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
>>> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
>>> logo specified on the color theme.
>>>
>>
>> The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't
>> have logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.
>>
>
> We have a problem here with the themes that use darker colors and they
> provide their own logo, with the correct contrast colors.
>

We could remove the custom themes logos, or remove support for some of the
themes.

Thanks,
Caty


>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What
>>> does it
>>> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>>> > Using a color theme?"
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > -Vincent
>>> >
>>> > > Thanks,
>>> > > Caty
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Thanks
>>> > >> -Vincent
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>>> vali...@gmail.com>
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hi,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>>> > tests
>>> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>>> > issues
>>> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
>>> section
>>> > in
>>> > >>> Administration".
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
>>> struggle
>>> > to
>>> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus
>>> there is
>>> > a
>>> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
>>> Themes
>>> > >>> section of Administration
>>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Let me know what you think,
>>> > >>> Caty
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> [1]
>>> > >>> 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

> On 12 Feb 2018, at 10:49, Marius Dumitru Florea 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Caty,
 
 I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
 (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
 
 Several questions:
 * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
 custom skin? Using a color theme?
 * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> which
 means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
>> &
 in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
 * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
 where is it materialized?
 
>>> 
>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
>> of
>>> view.
>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> Color
>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>> 
>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> XWiki
>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>> 
>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
>> making the situation even more complex…
>> 
>> So for me we need to:
>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>> 
> 
> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
> logo specified on the color theme.

Ok that’s a good idea but it still leaves some questions open:

A) There will be plenty of places where to define a custom logo. We need to 
list all the use cases that exist and make sure there’s only 1 way for each use 
case as otherwise it’s confusing. It seems oferly complex to me ATM and this 
will make it even more complex.

B) We need to decide technically where a default logo is stored. Perm dir 
somewhere? In a wiki page as an attachment and if so which page? (what are the 
pros and cons of each).

For A) let me try to list use cases:

UC1: I want to define a default logo so that when I create a new wiki, this 
logo is used by default
UC2: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a given subwiki.
UC3: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a page + its children
UC4: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a single page

Answers:
UC1: Default logo in admin UI
UC2: Unfortunately there are 2 solutions: Set a logo in the wiki skin or set a 
logo in the current wiki color theme. Ideally we should pick one.
UC3: AFAIK it’s not possible. We can set a logo in the space skin or set a logo 
in the space color theme. But we can have a logo that will be used for 
children. In addition there are also 2 solutions same as UC2
UC4: I don’t think it works right now. From a tech POV I think you can add a 
XWikiSkins xobject to a page but then you’ll get the associated sheet 
displayed. I don’t know about Color Theme.

So questions to answer:

* How do we implement UC3?
* How do we implement UC4?
* Should we provide a single way for UC2 instead of 2?
* Do we have a use case for being able to set the logo in the skin that 
couldn’t be done in the color theme (or vice-versa)? Since the skin can 
redefine the full vm templates it will always be able to force a logo but maybe 
we shouldn’t make it a special feature of the skin and deprecate it/hide it. 
The rationale could be that we decide to move the logo feature to the CT.

For B) I think as an attachment would be better (you get the benefits of pages: 
history, rollback, simpler to change, etc).

Thanks
-Vincent

> 
> 
>> 
>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> Using a color theme?"
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>> 
>>> 

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
vali...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > >
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi Caty,
>> > >>
>> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>> overridden
>> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Several questions:
>> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>> Using a
>> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> > which
>> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>> skins
>> > &
>> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>> > >> where is it materialized?
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
>> point
>> > of
>> > > view.
>> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>> this
>> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>> skin
>> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> > Color
>> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>> > >
>> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> > XWiki
>> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>> >
>> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>> ones,
>> > making the situation even more complex…
>> >
>> > So for me we need to:
>> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>> what
>> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>> would
>> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>> either?
>> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>> attach
>> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>> adds
>> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>> >
>>
>> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme
>> defines
>> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
>> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
>> logo specified on the color theme.
>>
>
> The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't have
> logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.
>

We have a problem here with the themes that use darker colors and they
provide their own logo, with the correct contrast colors.


>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
>> it
>> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> > Using a color theme?"
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Caty
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks
>> > >> -Vincent
>> > >>
>> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>> vali...@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>> > tests
>> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>> > issues
>> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
>> section
>> > in
>> > >>> Administration".
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
>> struggle
>> > to
>> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
>> is
>> > a
>> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
>> Themes
>> > >>> section of Administration
>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Let me know what you think,
>> > >>> Caty
>> > >>>
>> > >>> [1]
>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>> > >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Caty,
> > >>
> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> overridden
> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> > >>
> > >> Several questions:
> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> Using a
> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> > which
> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> skins
> > &
> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> > >> where is it materialized?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> > of
> > > view.
> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> this
> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> skin
> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> > Color
> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> > >
> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> > XWiki
> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> >
> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> ones,
> > making the situation even more complex…
> >
> > So for me we need to:
> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> would
> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> either?
> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> attach
> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> adds
> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> >
>
> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
> logo specified on the color theme.
>

The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't have
logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.

Thanks,
Caty


>
>
> >
> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
> it
> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> > Using a color theme?"
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> -Vincent
> > >>
> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > tests
> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > issues
> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > >>>
> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> section
> > in
> > >>> Administration".
> > >>>
> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> > to
> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> is
> > a
> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> Themes
> > >>> section of Administration
> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> > >>>
> > >>> Let me know what you think,
> > >>> Caty
> > >>>
> > >>> [1]
> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> > >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
> >
> >
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> >>
> >> Several questions:
> >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> which
> >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
> &
> >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> >> where is it materialized?
> >>
> >
> > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> of
> > view.
> > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> Color
> > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >
> > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> XWiki
> > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>
> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
> making the situation even more complex…
>
> So for me we need to:
> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>

It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically - I
guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.


>
> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> Using a color theme?"
>

The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
can rephrase it.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>
> >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> >>> Administration".
> >>>
> >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>
> >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> >>> section of Administration
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>
> >>> Let me know what you think,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Marius Dumitru Florea]

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> >>
> >> Several questions:
> >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> which
> >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
> &
> >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> >> where is it materialized?
> >>
> >
> > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> of
> > view.
> > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> Color
> > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >
> > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> XWiki
> > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>
> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
> making the situation even more complex…
>
> So for me we need to:
> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>

I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
logo specified on the color theme.


>
> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> Using a color theme?"
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>
> >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> >>> Administration".
> >>>
> >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>
> >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> >>> section of Administration
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>
> >>> Let me know what you think,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

Hi,

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Caty,
>> 
>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>> 
>> Several questions:
>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which
>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins &
>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>> where is it materialized?
>> 
> 
> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point of
> view.
> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the Color
> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> 
> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in XWiki
> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.

Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote) since 
it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of changing the 
logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones, making the 
situation even more complex…

So for me we need to:
1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what 
happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would use 
one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI. Does 
it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach a logo 
to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds a logo to 
it? Does it do something else?

I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it mean 
“at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin? Using a color 
theme?"

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> Caty
> 
> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> 
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>> 
>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
>>> Administration".
>>> 
>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>> 
>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
>>> section of Administration
>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>> 
>>> Let me know what you think,
>>> Caty
>>> 
>>> [1]
>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>> Tasks5/Prioritization/

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Guillaume Delhumeau]

+1

2018-02-09 14:34 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :

> Hi,
>
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
>
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>



-- 
Guillaume Delhumeau (guillaume.delhum...@xwiki.com)
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Alex Cotiugă 
wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> vali...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă <
> alexandru.coti...@xwiki.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term
> > to
> > > loose its meaning for
> > > what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first
> in
> > > the Presentation section for
> > > changing something like Logo.
> >
> >
> > Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
> > the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
> > there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then, would we consider to make logo
> > > changeable as is the profile
> > > picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
> > >
> >
> > I don't understand this question.
>
> I'm talking about showing the edit mark (pencil) to admin users right on
> the logo in the header adn be able to edit it right there.
> I attached a picture in the proposal:
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo/editableLogo.png
> I think this way it would be even easier for users to change logo. Is not
> about Admin section but about easing the way the logo is changed.
>

This was proposed by Olivier, some time ago. Still I would prefer that we
leave the navigation functionality for the logo as the primary action.
Admins change the logo just in the beginning. Is not a recurrent action,
but one important that they expect to find in the Administration.


>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> > thomas.morta...@xwiki.com
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > > tests
> > > > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > > issues
> > > > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> > section
> > > in
> > > > > Administration".
> > > > >
> > > > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
> struggle
> > > to
> > > > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> > Themes
> > > > > section of Administration
> > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > > > go#HSolution1-1
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know what you think,
> > > > > Caty
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > > > sks5/Prioritization/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Alex Cotiugă]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă 
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term
> to
> > loose its meaning for
> > what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
> > the Presentation section for
> > changing something like Logo.
>
>
> Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
> the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
> there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.
>
>
>
> > Then, would we consider to make logo
> > changeable as is the profile
> > picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
> >
>
> I don't understand this question.

I'm talking about showing the edit mark (pencil) to admin users right on
the logo in the header adn be able to edit it right there.
I attached a picture in the proposal:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo/editableLogo.png
I think this way it would be even easier for users to change logo. Is not
about Admin section but about easing the way the logo is changed.

>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alex
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> thomas.morta...@xwiki.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> > >  wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > tests
> > > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > issues
> > > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > > >
> > > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> section
> > in
> > > > Administration".
> > > >
> > > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> > to
> > > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> is
> > a
> > > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > > >
> > > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> Themes
> > > > section of Administration
> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > > go#HSolution1-1
> > > >
> > > > Let me know what you think,
> > > > Caty
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > > sks5/Prioritization/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Mortagne
> > >
> >
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă 
wrote:

> +1
>
> Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term to
> loose its meaning for
> what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
> the Presentation section for
> changing something like Logo.


Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.



> Then, would we consider to make logo
> changeable as is the profile
> picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
>

I don't understand this question.


>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne  >
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> >  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > >
> > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> > > Administration".
> > >
> > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > >
> > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > > section of Administration
> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > go#HSolution1-1
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > sks5/Prioritization/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
> >
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol  wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>
> Several questions:
> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which
> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins &
> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> where is it materialized?
>

Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point of
view.
In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the Color
Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.

The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in XWiki
to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >
> > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> > Administration".
> >
> > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >
> > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > section of Administration
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >
> > Let me know what you think,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1]
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Alex Cotiugă]

+1

Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term to
loose its meaning for
what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
the Presentation section for
changing something like Logo. Then, would we consider to make logo
changeable as is the profile
picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?

Thanks,
Alex

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne 
wrote:

> +1
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
>  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >
> > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> > Administration".
> >
> > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >
> > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > section of Administration
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> go#HSolution1-1
> >
> > Let me know what you think,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1]
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> sks5/Prioritization/
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
>

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Vincent Massol]

Hi Caty,

I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden (typo 
in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.

Several questions:
* What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom 
skin? Using a color theme?
* Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which means 
that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins & in color 
themes? Isn’t that too much?
* What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e. where is 
it materialized?

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> 
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
> 
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> 
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> 
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
> 
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Tasks5/Prioritization/

Re: [xwiki-devs] [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

[Thomas Mortagne]

+1

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
>
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Tasks5/Prioritization/



-- 
Thomas Mortagne