Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-02-14 11:47, schrieb Didier Kryn:

    After the upgrade, the shutdown and reboot buttons in xfce just do
the same as the button to terminate the session. No way to
shutdown/reboot other than loging in as root.


Looks like the same problem I had.
If you have libpolkit-backend-systemd and libpolkit-gobject-systemd, 
replace them with libpolkit-backend-consolekit and 
libpolkit-gobject-consolekit.


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] mount the USB memories in Ascii

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-02-14 14:29, schrieb Ismael L. Donis Garcia:

> What should I configure so that a normal user can mount the USB memories?

See Irrwahns mail "IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/02/2018 à 13:37, Irrwahn a écrit :

PLEASE NOTE:
   The following only applies to already existing ASCII systems that got
upgraded to the newest package versions as present in the repositories.
Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.

TL;DR
-
Make sure you got the correct libpolkit-backend installed!

Background
--
   It would appear that under certain circumstances an unsuitable flavor
of libpolkit-backend-1-0- gets pulled in upon upgrade. This can lead
to a temporary loss of desktop session related functionality, namely the
ability to user-mount removable drives or to shutdown/restart the system
using the GUI controls provided by the respective desktop environment. The
issue was ultimately caused by the recent addition of elogind to the
repositories, or rather the repackaging of policykit-1 that followed suit.

Resolution
--
1. Make sure you have at least one of (traditional) consolekit or (new)
elogind installed. (Note: You can have both installed and active; which
one is actually used however is decided by which libpolkit-backend you
choose to install, see 4.)

    I had both elogind and consolekit.

    Removing consolekit forces removal of task-xfce-desktop and few 
other packages including slim.

2. Make sure (at least one of) the above is activated. You may do so by
interactively running the 'pam-auth-update' command as root.

3. Ensure the following packages got installed:
  policykit-1  0.105-18+devuan2.4
  libpolkit-agent-1-0  0.105-18+devuan2.4
  
4. Install one of the mutually exclusive policykit backend libs, i.e.

- EITHER -
  libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4


    Amazingly, I had libpolkit-backend-1.0-systemd installed! See your 
explanation below...



- OR -
  libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4

depending on which session manager backend you intend to use, see 1.

In case you find you have a backend with -systemd in the name installed:
that one will _not_ work, and is most likely the cause why things went
sideways in the first place.

5. After making changes to the session management you should either reboot
the system or at least cycle through runlevel 1.

Note:  Depending on what login manager you use in conjunction with which
desktop environment you might have to experiment a bit to find out which
of consolekit or elogind works best for you (or works[TM] at all).


    Note that task-xfce-desktop requires slim and slim requires consolekit.

    I already had lightdm installed, but slim was the onein function. 
Tried dpkg-reconfigure lightdm, expecting to select the DM in function, 
but there was no dialog. After reboot, the lightdm greeting popped up. 
Xfce pannel's buttons for exit/reboot/shutdown now work properly.


    Mmc devices can now be mounted from the icon on xfce desktop - 
permission was denied before.


    Good job!

    If elogind is to be Devuan's default, then, for consistency, 
another DM than slim should be the default, and task-xfce-desktop should 
be modified acordingly.


            Didier


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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Irrwahn]

Happy VUAlentine's Day, Devuan!   :)

May you manifold and spread all the love 
that dedicated people put into you!


Urban
-- 
Sapere aude!


Veteran Unix Admins wrote on 14.02.2018 10:48:
> 
> Dear dev1rs
> 
> the Veteran Unix Admins salute you!
> 
> On February 14th 2015, Devuan unveiled a "pre-alpha" Valentine release
> of Devuan Jessie [1] just a few months after the Veteran Unix Admins
> declared their intention to fork Debian on November 27th 2014 [2].
> That was the beginning of our collective journey. Now, three years
> later, Valentine's day has more love for the Devuan community.  The
> long-awaited release of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta (minor planet nr. 3568)
> is here!
> 
> ## So what's new in Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta?
> 
> - OpenRC is installable using the expert install path
>(thanks Maemo Leste!)
> 
> - eudev has replaced systemd-udev (thanks Gentoo!)
> 
> - elogind has been added as an alternative to consolekit
>   (thanks Gentoo!)
> 
> - Desktop users can choose among fully functional XFCE (Default), KDE,
>   Cinnamon, LXQT, MATE, and LXDE desktops
> 
> - CLI-oriented users can select the "Console productivity" task that
>   installs a fully-featured set of console-based utils and tools.
> 
> - A .vdi disk image is now provided for use with VirtualBox.
> 
> - ARM board kernels have been updated to 4.14 and 4.15 for most
>   boards.
> 
> ## Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is on the horizon
> 
> Although Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta has been powering thousands of servers
> and desktops for the last two years and been extensively tested by the
> Devuan community, it is being released as a beta because at Devuan we
> value involvement and feedback. So we want even more extensive testing
> of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta to confirm "when it is ready" to be called a
> Stable release.
> 
> Once Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is released, our efforts will turn to
> Devuan 3.0 Beowulf (minor planet nr. 38086).
> 
> ## Download Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta
> 
> **Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:**
> http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii
>   
> **Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta is available for amd64 and i386 in the
>   following flavours:**
> 
>  - installable live CD/DVD
>  - installation CD/DVD
>  - NETINST CDROM
>  - installable minimal live 
>  - qcow/vagrant images
> 
> **ARM:**
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/embedded/README.txt
> 
> **Virtual machines:**
> https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/virtual/README.txt
> 
> ## Upgrade to Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta
> 
> Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta provides safe upgrade paths from Devuan 1.0
> Jessie, Debian 8.x Jessie, Debian 9.x Stretch. Just follow the
> relevant instructions at:
> https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
> https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii
> 
> ## Feedback (we love that!)
> 
> If you try to install Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta from a DVD or CD setup
> please test it offline (i.e., without a network connection and without
> a configured mirror). If something goes wrong please try it online
> (i.e., with a network connection and a configured mirror).  And then
> please report your findings to us including the list of packages as
> given by `dpkg -l | gzip -9 > packagelist.gz` and the output of `cat
> /var/lib/pam/session > pamconfig.txt`
> 
> Please get in touch with us through one of the community channels
> listed below or on freenode #devuan-dev for real-time interaction.
> 
> ## Information and contacts
> 
> Web: http://www.devuan.org
> Forum: http://dev1galaxy.org
> BTS: http://bugs.devuan.org
> IRC: #devuan (freenode)
> 
> Journalists please note: this announcement of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta 
> release is mainly for internal testing not for wide redistribution.
> An announcement for the Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable release  will 
> hopefully follow very soon.
> 
> happy hacking!
> 
> The dev1 team
> 
> [1] You can find an archive of the pre-alpha Valentine release message here:
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180213.205150.929bbd85.en.html
> [2] https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/
> 
> ___
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> 

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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Stefan Mark]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:48:20 +0100
Veteran Unix Admins  wrote:

> **Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:**
> http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii
>   
404 :)
I think its https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/


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[DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Veteran Unix Admins]

Dear dev1rs

the Veteran Unix Admins salute you!

On February 14th 2015, Devuan unveiled a "pre-alpha" Valentine release
of Devuan Jessie [1] just a few months after the Veteran Unix Admins
declared their intention to fork Debian on November 27th 2014 [2].
That was the beginning of our collective journey. Now, three years
later, Valentine's day has more love for the Devuan community.  The
long-awaited release of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta (minor planet nr. 3568)
is here!

## So what's new in Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta?

- OpenRC is installable using the expert install path
   (thanks Maemo Leste!)

- eudev has replaced systemd-udev (thanks Gentoo!)

- elogind has been added as an alternative to consolekit
  (thanks Gentoo!)

- Desktop users can choose among fully functional XFCE (Default), KDE,
  Cinnamon, LXQT, MATE, and LXDE desktops

- CLI-oriented users can select the "Console productivity" task that
  installs a fully-featured set of console-based utils and tools.

- A .vdi disk image is now provided for use with VirtualBox.

- ARM board kernels have been updated to 4.14 and 4.15 for most
  boards.

## Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is on the horizon

Although Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta has been powering thousands of servers
and desktops for the last two years and been extensively tested by the
Devuan community, it is being released as a beta because at Devuan we
value involvement and feedback. So we want even more extensive testing
of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta to confirm "when it is ready" to be called a
Stable release.

Once Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable is released, our efforts will turn to
Devuan 3.0 Beowulf (minor planet nr. 38086).

## Download Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta

**Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:**
http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii
  
**Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta is available for amd64 and i386 in the
  following flavours:**

 - installable live CD/DVD
 - installation CD/DVD
 - NETINST CDROM
 - installable minimal live 
 - qcow/vagrant images

**ARM:**
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/embedded/README.txt

**Virtual machines:**
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/virtual/README.txt

## Upgrade to Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta

Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta provides safe upgrade paths from Devuan 1.0
Jessie, Debian 8.x Jessie, Debian 9.x Stretch. Just follow the
relevant instructions at:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii

## Feedback (we love that!)

If you try to install Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta from a DVD or CD setup
please test it offline (i.e., without a network connection and without
a configured mirror). If something goes wrong please try it online
(i.e., with a network connection and a configured mirror).  And then
please report your findings to us including the list of packages as
given by `dpkg -l | gzip -9 > packagelist.gz` and the output of `cat
/var/lib/pam/session > pamconfig.txt`

Please get in touch with us through one of the community channels
listed below or on freenode #devuan-dev for real-time interaction.

## Information and contacts

Web: http://www.devuan.org
Forum: http://dev1galaxy.org
BTS: http://bugs.devuan.org
IRC: #devuan (freenode)

Journalists please note: this announcement of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta 
release is mainly for internal testing not for wide redistribution.
An announcement for the Devuan 2.0 ASCII Stable release  will 
hopefully follow very soon.

happy hacking!

The dev1 team

[1] You can find an archive of the pre-alpha Valentine release message here:
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180213.205150.929bbd85.en.html
[2] https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/

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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Didier Kryn]

    Just updated/upgraded my Devuan-ASCII after the announce, using 
Synaptic.


    Process was dodgy: some policykit packages had to be removed 
*before* upgrading task-desktop. Doing all at once would mark packages 
as broken.


    After the upgrade, the shutdown and reboot buttons in xfce just do 
the same as the button to terminate the session. No way to 
shutdown/reboot other than loging in as root.


    Sorry I don't remember the details of package names. Will do the 
ame operation with another machine soon.


            Didier

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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Irrwahn]

Stefan Mark wrote on 14.02.2018 10:55:
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:48:20 +0100
> Veteran Unix Admins  wrote:
> 
>> **Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:**
>> http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii
>>   
> 404 :)
> I think its https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/

Yes.  8^)

And @all: 
Please keep in mind this is a _beta_, so we will inevitably hit 
some bumps along the ride.

Best regards
Urban

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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:55:46AM +0100, Stefan Mark wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:48:20 +0100
> Veteran Unix Admins  wrote:
> 
> > **Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta at:**
> > http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii
> >   
> 404 :)
> I think its https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii_beta/

fixed now

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-02-14 15:06, schrieb Didier Kryn:

    If elogind is to be Devuan's default, then, for consistency,
another DM than slim should be the default, and task-xfce-desktop
should be modified acordingly.


There is no default, you can use what you want (consolekit/elogind).
Since lightdm does not have a Devuan theme I use slim which has a nice 
theme.
And since slim only works with consolekit, I installed the consolekit 
backend and removed elogind* completely.


As I understand, elogind is systemd-logind repackaged as standalone 
daemon. And since I don't like poettering-ware, I decided to stay with 
consolekit. ;-)


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[leloft]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 13:37:46 +0100
Irrwahn  wrote:

>   It would appear that under certain circumstances an unsuitable
> flavor of libpolkit-backend-1-0- gets pulled in upon upgrade.
> This can lead to a temporary loss of desktop session related
> functionality, namely the ability to user-mount removable drives or
> to shutdown/restart the system using the GUI controls provided by the
> respective desktop environment. The issue was ultimately caused by
> the recent addition of elogind to the repositories, or rather the
> repackaging of policykit-1 that followed suit.
> 
> Resolution
> --
> 1. Make sure you have at least one of (traditional) consolekit
 # apt-cache policy consolekit
consolekit:
  Installed: 0.4.6-6
  Candidate: 0.4.6-6
  Version table:
 *** 0.4.6-6 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>or
> (new) elogind
# apt-cache policy elogind
elogind:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 234.4-1+devuan1.5
  Version table:
 234.4-1+devuan1.5 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
>installed. 
> 3. Ensure the following packages got installed:
>  policykit-1  0.105-18+devuan2.4
>  libpolkit-agent-1-0  0.105-18+devuan2.4
> 
# apt-cache policy policykit-1
policykit-1:
  Installed: 0.105-9+devuan1
  Candidate: 0.105-18+devuan2.4
  Version table:
 0.105-18+devuan2.4 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
 *** 0.105-9+devuan1 100
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

# apt-cache policy libpolkit-agent-1-0
libpolkit-agent-1-0:
  Installed: 0.105-9+devuan1
  Candidate: 0.105-18+devuan2.4
  Version table:
 0.105-18+devuan2.4 500
500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
 *** 0.105-9+devuan1 100
100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

# apt-get -s upgrade policykit-1 libpolkit-agent-1-0
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-1-0-systemd
  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd
The following packages have been kept back:
  boinc-client desktop-base libboinc7
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libpolkit-agent-1-0 policykit-1
2 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 2 to remove and 3 not upgraded.

> 4. Install one of the mutually exclusive policykit backend libs, i.e.
>- EITHER -
>  libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
>  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4
> 
>- OR -apt-get 
>  libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
>  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4
> 
>depending on which session manager backend you intend to use, see
> 1.
# apt-get -s install libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit
  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd
0 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 2 to remove and 5 not upgraded.

# apt-get -s install libpolkit-gobject-1-0-consolekit
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
required: colord-data libcolord2 libcolorhug2 libgusb2
Use 'apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
  libpolkit-agent-1-0
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  colord libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0 policykit-1
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libpolkit-gobject-1-0-consolekit
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libpolkit-agent-1-0
1 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 4 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
> 
>In case you find you have a backend with -systemd in the name
> installed: that one will _not_ work, and is most likely the cause why
> things went sideways in the first place.

> 
I do not know anything like enough to do anything more than comment, but
does the above indicate that the *-backend-systemd is being pulled in
as a result of an unhelpful dependency chain.  And why does the
installation of libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit pull in 
elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd
when consolekit has been installed in preference to elogind?

My sources are these

#
deb http://linux-libre.fsfla.org/pub/linux-libre/freesh freesh main
#deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan experimental   main
deb 

Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/02/2018 à 15:32, Irrwahn a écrit :

Removing consolekit isn't mandatory, but yes, in doing so one causes
same breakage just as you described.


    Sure it is possible to have both Consolekit and Elogind, but can 
they be both active?


            Didier

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

leloft wrote on 14.02.2018 15:46:
[...]
> I do not know anything like enough to do anything more than comment, but
> does the above indicate that the *-backend-systemd is being pulled in
> as a result of an unhelpful dependency chain.  And why does the
> installation of libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit pull in 
> elogind libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd
> when consolekit has been installed in preference to elogind?
[...]

It would appear so, but just now it's hard to put the finger on the 
exact spot where things are wired wrong. This is but one of the kinks 
to expect in beta release, and the very reason why there is a beta 
released in the first place. I'm sure it will eventually get sorted out.

And, FWIW, the backend-systemd could IMHO easily be dropped entirely, 
as it would be rather peculiar for someone to actually try and force a 
genuine systemd package into Devuan, of all systems. ;o)

Best regards
Urban

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-02-14 17:05, schrieb Didier Kryn:


Everything works fine, except slim has lost its beautifull background.
Now its background is just grey.


Yout /etc/slim.conf should have a line

current_theme desktop-slim-theme

And the theme files are in package desktop-base.
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/02/2018 à 16:21, Irrwahn a écrit :

      Sure it is possible to have both Consolekit and Elogind, but can
they be both active?

              Didier

Yes.

Oh, how I would know, you might ask.  Well, for a start, I'm typing this
message on a desktop machine where it's the case.:)

As I wrote in the OP: Which one gets the cookie, so to speak, is decided
by the choice of polkit backend. Currently elogind here, but I could just
as well swap it out for the consolekit backend library, should I decideto
start my lightdm/Xfce desktop that way.

Just go ahead, have your session management of the day!;-P


    Did that, I reinstalled slim and made it the DM in charge. 
Everything works fine, except slim has lost its beautifull background. 
Now its background is just grey.


            Didier



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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Chillfan]

Very nice and well done, the new installer presets leave us spoilt for choice.. 
openrc and a bunch of desktops to choose from.. great stuff.

chillfan

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Didier Kryn wrote on 14.02.2018 15:54:
> Le 14/02/2018 à 15:32, Irrwahn a écrit :
>> Removing consolekit isn't mandatory, but yes, in doing so one causes
>> same breakage just as you described.
> 
>      Sure it is possible to have both Consolekit and Elogind, but can 
> they be both active?
> 
>              Didier

Yes. 

Oh, how I would know, you might ask.  Well, for a start, I'm typing this
message on a desktop machine where it's the case.  :)

As I wrote in the OP: Which one gets the cookie, so to speak, is decided 
by the choice of polkit backend. Currently elogind here, but I could just 
as well swap it out for the consolekit backend library, should I decide to 
start my lightdm/Xfce desktop that way. 

Just go ahead, have your session management of the day! ;-P

And kudos to the fine chaps that made it possible!

Urban

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Didier Kryn wrote on 14.02.2018 15:06:
> Le 14/02/2018 à 13:37, Irrwahn a écrit :
[...]
>> 1. Make sure you have at least one of (traditional) consolekit or (new)
>> elogind installed. (Note: You can have both installed and active; which
>> one is actually used however is decided by which libpolkit-backend you
>> choose to install, see 4.)
>      I had both elogind and consolekit.
> 
>      Removing consolekit forces removal of task-xfce-desktop and few 
> other packages including slim.

Removing consolekit isn't mandatory, but yes, in doing so one causes 
same breakage just as you described.

[...]
>> Note:  Depending on what login manager you use in conjunction with which
>> desktop environment you might have to experiment a bit to find out which
>> of consolekit or elogind works best for you (or works[TM] at all).
> 
>      Note that task-xfce-desktop requires slim and slim requires consolekit.

Correct. That however is not an accident, but more or less on purpose.

> 
>      I already had lightdm installed, but slim was the onein function. 
> Tried dpkg-reconfigure lightdm, expecting to select the DM in function, 
> but there was no dialog. After reboot, the lightdm greeting popped up. 
> Xfce pannel's buttons for exit/reboot/shutdown now work properly.

Side note: It is absolutely possible to have the consolekit/slim/xfce 
combo working. Incidentally, that is exactly the setup that gets 
installed when you go all with the defaults during a fresh ASCII BETA 
installer run.

>      Mmc devices can now be mounted from the icon on xfce desktop - 
> permission was denied before.
> 
>      Good job!

Glad that did help, you're welcome. :)

>      If elogind is to be Devuan's default, then, for consistency, 
> another DM than slim should be the default, and task-xfce-desktop should 
> be modified acordingly.

(See side note above.)

AIUI there has not even been any decision *if* there even will be a single
default in this respect, at the very least for ASCII. Different flavors 
of desktop environments work more or less well with different combinations 
of session management and login manager, and consequently the various 
task-...-desktop meta-packages each come with their distinct preferred 
(but not necessarily mandatory) set of default dependencies. But mostly (at 
least going by my own experience during a few dozen test installations I did 
in the last days) it's a matter of taste and personal preference. That's the 
up- and the downside in providing freedom of choice, in a nutshell. :)

Best regards
Urban

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Hleb Valoshka]

On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:

> Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.

Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
policykit backend was pulled.
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[DNG] Xfce 4.12 broken with Zaphod heads mode

[Nate Bargmann]

Congrats on the release of ASCII beta today.

In my testing, I am finding that Xfce 4.12 no longer appears capable of
working nicely with my Xorg Zphod heads mode setup.  I do have the
separate screens and desktops and panels for each, but when I launch an
Xfce Terminal on Screen 1, it is opened on Screen 0.  Some apps launched
on Screen 1 do display on Screen 1, but it just seems to depend on the
app.  It's likely that I don't know (or forgot) all of the mechanisms
involved with apps displaying on a given screen/desktop.

I've been using the Zaphod heads mode for a number of years with two
monitors and two independent desktops (one for each with four workspaces
on each desktop).  This is a workflow that is essential for the way I
use this desktop computer.  I recall this has worked without issue since
at least Debian 6 series through Devuan Jessie.

Does anyone have any ideas before I move this upstream?

- Nate

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Didier Kryn wrote on 14.02.2018 17:05:
> Le 14/02/2018 à 16:21, Irrwahn a écrit :
[...]
>> Just go ahead, have your session management of the day!;-P
> 
>      Did that, I reinstalled slim and made it the DM in charge. 
> Everything works fine, except slim has lost its beautifull background. 
> Now its background is just grey.
> 
>              Didier

H ... you might try to (re-)install the desktop-base package from 
Devuan. It has the theme for slim IIRC (among other stuff).

Urban

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[DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

PLEASE NOTE: 
  The following only applies to already existing ASCII systems that got 
upgraded to the newest package versions as present in the repositories. 
Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.

TL;DR
-
Make sure you got the correct libpolkit-backend installed!

Background
--  
  It would appear that under certain circumstances an unsuitable flavor 
of libpolkit-backend-1-0- gets pulled in upon upgrade. This can lead 
to a temporary loss of desktop session related functionality, namely the 
ability to user-mount removable drives or to shutdown/restart the system 
using the GUI controls provided by the respective desktop environment. The 
issue was ultimately caused by the recent addition of elogind to the 
repositories, or rather the repackaging of policykit-1 that followed suit.

Resolution
--
1. Make sure you have at least one of (traditional) consolekit or (new)
   elogind installed. (Note: You can have both installed and active; which 
   one is actually used however is decided by which libpolkit-backend you 
   choose to install, see 4.)

2. Make sure (at least one of) the above is activated. You may do so by
   interactively running the 'pam-auth-update' command as root.

3. Ensure the following packages got installed:
 policykit-1  0.105-18+devuan2.4
 libpolkit-agent-1-0  0.105-18+devuan2.4
 
4. Install one of the mutually exclusive policykit backend libs, i.e.
   - EITHER -
 libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
 libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind  0.105-18+devuan2.4

   - OR -
 libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4  and
 libpolkit-gobject-1-0-consolekit   0.105-18+devuan2.4

   depending on which session manager backend you intend to use, see 1.

   In case you find you have a backend with -systemd in the name installed:
   that one will _not_ work, and is most likely the cause why things went 
   sideways in the first place.

5. After making changes to the session management you should either reboot 
   the system or at least cycle through runlevel 1.

Note:  Depending on what login manager you use in conjunction with which 
desktop environment you might have to experiment a bit to find out which 
of consolekit or elogind works best for you (or works[TM] at all).


Bottom line: As always in life, keep your backends covered. ;-)

HTH, HANVD, and enjoy the ASCII Beta!

Best regards
Urban

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Hleb Valoshka wrote on 14.02.2018 21:54:
> On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
> Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
 Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
 policykit backend was pulled.
>>> That's a first AFAICT. Noted.  Thanks, Hleb! :)
>>> Oh, you wouldn't have by any chance saved the package list in that state?
>>> In the unlikely case you have, could you please email it to me?
> 
> I created a ascii chroot using debootstrap and then installed
> task-xfce-desktop using interactive mode of aptitude, which showed 2
> broken packages - backend and gobject of policykit. It was the
> previous weekend, so there is tiny chance that the is issue has been
> solved already (for clean installations).

That might indeed be the case, as there were some last-minute 
changes to the policykit packages right before the beta release. 
 
>> P.S.:
>> I forgot to ask: Did you use a package mirror or did you perform a purely
>> offline install?
> 
> I used http://deb.devuan.org/merged

That's fine, then.

Thanks for the info! :)
 
Urban
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Hleb Valoshka]

On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
 Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
>>> Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
>>> policykit backend was pulled.
>> That's a first AFAICT. Noted.  Thanks, Hleb! :)
>> Oh, you wouldn't have by any chance saved the package list in that state?
>> In the unlikely case you have, could you please email it to me?

I created a ascii chroot using debootstrap and then installed
task-xfce-desktop using interactive mode of aptitude, which showed 2
broken packages - backend and gobject of policykit. It was the
previous weekend, so there is tiny chance that the is issue has been
solved already (for clean installations).

> P.S.:
> I forgot to ask: Did you use a package mirror or did you perform a purely
> offline install?

I used http://deb.devuan.org/merged
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote on 14.02.2018 21:35:
[...]
> On my system it tried to pull in libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd. The reason 
> was aptitude: "twin-trinity" (which is installed) provides 
> "x-display-manager" was ignored, instead aptitude resolved by some obscure 
> reason that the not installed "cinnamon" provides "x-display-manager", so 
> "libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd" has to be installed (but not "cinnamon"), 
> ignoring "twin-trinity" which already provides "x-display-manager".
> 
> The second solution that aptitude resolved did not pull in 
> "libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd", so that was no big issue.
> 
> After I followed your advise giving in 
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180214.123746.e89eaef8.en.html (I 
> decided to go with elogind) aptitude did resove correctly.

Hi, 

thank you for your valuable feedback! We will definitely have to have 
a closer look at the dependency chains in that whole area. 

Best regards
Urban

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[DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Alexander Bochmann]

Ran into this when trying to move an old box with a Via C3 CPU 
from Debian jessie (last release to support i586) to Devuan jessie: 
System resets before even loading Devuan-built grub. 

Don't think there's any use putting work into fixing that, just 
mentioning it here before anyone else tries ;)

Alex.

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Re: [DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Irrwahn]

Alexander Bochmann wrote on 14.02.2018 21:56:
> Ran into this when trying to move an old box with a Via C3 CPU 
> from Debian jessie (last release to support i586) to Devuan jessie: 
> System resets before even loading Devuan-built grub. 
[...]

Now that is particularly odd, as grub is not among the packages 
that were forked by Devuan but rather is merged from Debian. 

Urban
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Re: [DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Alexander Bochmann]

...on Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:09:17PM +0100, Irrwahn wrote:

 > Alexander Bochmann wrote on 14.02.2018 21:56:
 > > System resets before even loading Devuan-built grub. 
 > Now that is particularly odd, as grub is not among the packages 
 > that were forked by Devuan but rather is merged from Debian. 

Agh, odd indeed. Just my bad luck again? It is old hardware 
after all...

Ok, currently reinstalling Debian, and then I'll try again (and if 
it fails a second time, I'll try the Devuan installer directly).

Alex.

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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 05:24:27PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:
> devuanfwojg73k6r.onion  and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever 
> been the same?
> 

They are the same machine and always have been (since late September
or early October 2017, more or less). The rewrites on pkgmaster are to
the corresponding Debian mirrors. The rewrites on the onion address
are on the corresponding Debian onion address. We don't have control
on them.

You won't believe it, but you are not the only one using tor here, but
apparently the only one reporting problems on tor. Have you considered
the possibility that there might be a problem either in your config or
in the way you access the repos via tor?

You should use tor:// or tor+http:// with the onion address, and
http:// or https:// with pkgmaster. The reason is that the whole thing
is based on FQDNs http rewrites., and if you mix them up you might
experience problems.

Again: nothing has changed since October in the way we redirect the
onion address. Nothing at all. Also, even if not relevant,
pkgmaster.devuan.org and auto.mirror.devuan.org have the very same set
of packages (pkgmaster gets its package lists from the same source
auto.mirror gets its package lists), so other speculations about
inconsistent repos are not supported by any logic.

HTH

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 05:24:27PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:

[cut]

> 
> PS3   Maybe irrelevant, but could ascii exacerbate some problems as going 
> from jessie to ascii packages may have a lower number version in ascii than 
> in jessie, which makes the installation different than if it was a straight 
> ascii build?  And those packages must be devuan specific (or specifically 
> held back) as such things wouldn't happen from a true debian repository.

You should substantiate your claims with evidence, not with
suppsitions that based on what could or could not happen.

Have you tried upgrading to ascii from jessie? Have you had any
specific problems related to package version numbers? Can you indicate
a specific case in which a package has a lower number in Devuan ascii
than in Devuan jesssie?

Please provide a detailed report of any such glitch you have
encountered, with a complete dump of your /etc/apt/sources.list,
content of /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, and full content of
/etc/apt/preferences.d

HND

KatolaZ

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[DNG] ASCII Beta: too much love? :P

[KatolaZ]

Dear Dev1rs,

we know that many of us are experiencing enormous ETAs on downloading
ASCII Beta images from http://files.devuan.org

The reason is that we just didn't expect so many people were waiting
for ASCII to come out. Here is a snaphot of the MRTG from one of
Devuan's servers in the last 20 hours:

  http://katolaz.homeunix.net/tmp/ascii_beta_release.png

We have served iso downloads to several thousands unique IPs, and at
the moment we have several hundred parallel active connections. OVH
has kindly increased the upload bw on our servers, and we are
currently working to make additional servers available.

Well, it seems that they are right in saying that love can be
"suffocating", at times :D

In the meanwhile, the best way to get ASCII beta images as soon as
possible is to back off for a few hours, let the (many) mirrors use
the availale bandwidth to sync as fast as they can, and then download
the images from one of the mirrors listed at http://www.devuan.org

We know that the following mirrors have at least the images for
desktop-live and embedded, and some of them have netinst and/or some
install DVD/CD as well:

  https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/
  http://devuan.smallinnovations.nl/
  https://mirror.datacenterlight.ch/mirror/devuan/
  http://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/
  https://mirror.belltower.us/devuan/
  http://devuan.unetresgrossebite.com/
  http://devuan.c3l.lu/devuan_ascii_beta/
  https://mirrors.dotsrc.org/devuan-cd/devuan_ascii_beta/
  https://devuan.contrast.network/
  https://mirror.belltower.us/devuan/
  http://files.devuan.mine.nu/
  
Please verify the SHA256SUMS and the corresponding signatures. They
are signed with the corresponding developer keys, listed at:

  https://devuan.org/os/team/

We are sorry for the inconvenience caused. We are working at improving
our infrastructure to cope with the increasing demand of the Devuan
community.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Mittwoch, 14. Februar 2018 schrieb Irrwahn:
> Hleb Valoshka wrote on 14.02.2018 19:20:
> > On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
> > 
> >> Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
> > 
> > Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
> > policykit backend was pulled.
> 
> That's a first AFAICT. Noted.  Thanks, Hleb! :)
> 
> Oh, you wouldn't have by any chance saved the package list in that state? 
> In the unlikely case you have, could you please email it to me?
> 
> Thanks again & best regards
> Urban
> 

Hi!

On my system it tried to pull in libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd. The reason was 
aptitude: "twin-trinity" (which is installed) provides "x-display-manager" was 
ignored, instead aptitude resolved by some obscure reason that the not 
installed "cinnamon" provides "x-display-manager", so 
"libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd" has to be installed (but not "cinnamon"), 
ignoring "twin-trinity" which already provides "x-display-manager".

The second solution that aptitude resolved did not pull in 
"libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd", so that was no big issue.

After I followed your advise giving in 
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20180214.123746.e89eaef8.en.html (I 
decided to go with elogind) aptitude did resove correctly.


Nik





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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Hleb Valoshka wrote on 14.02.2018 19:20:
> On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
> 
>> Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
> 
> Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
> policykit backend was pulled.

That's a first AFAICT. Noted.  Thanks, Hleb! :)

Oh, you wouldn't have by any chance saved the package list in that state? 
In the unlikely case you have, could you please email it to me?

Thanks again & best regards
Urban

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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Irrwahn]

Irrwahn wrote on 14.02.2018 19:46:
> Hleb Valoshka wrote on 14.02.2018 19:20:
>> On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
>>
>>> Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
>>
>> Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
>> policykit backend was pulled.
> 
> That's a first AFAICT. Noted.  Thanks, Hleb! :)
> 
> Oh, you wouldn't have by any chance saved the package list in that state? 
> In the unlikely case you have, could you please email it to me?

P.S.:  
I forgot to ask: Did you use a package mirror or did you perform a purely 
offline install? 

Urban
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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:48:20 +0100
Veteran Unix Admins  wrote:

> Dear dev1rs
> 
> the Veteran Unix Admins salute you!
> 
> On February 14th 2015, Devuan unveiled a "pre-alpha" Valentine release
> of Devuan Jessie [1] just a few months after the Veteran Unix Admins
> declared their intention to fork Debian on November 27th 2014 [2].
> That was the beginning of our collective journey. Now, three years
> later, Valentine's day has more love for the Devuan community.  The
> long-awaited release of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta (minor planet nr. 3568)
> is here!
> 
> ## So what's new in Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta?
> 
> - OpenRC is installable using the expert install path
>(thanks Maemo Leste!)
> 
> - eudev has replaced systemd-udev (thanks Gentoo!)
> 
> - elogind has been added as an alternative to consolekit
>   (thanks Gentoo!)
> 
> - Desktop users can choose among fully functional XFCE (Default), KDE,
>   Cinnamon, LXQT, MATE, and LXDE desktops
> 
> - CLI-oriented users can select the "Console productivity" task that
>   installs a fully-featured set of console-based utils and tools.
> 
> - A .vdi disk image is now provided for use with VirtualBox.
> 
> - ARM board kernels have been updated to 4.14 and 4.15 for most
>   boards.

Holy cow, you're leaving Debian behind. Our own udev and consolekit
replacements! Very, very nice!

SteveT
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Re: [DNG] ASCII Beta: too much love? :P

[Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:54:35 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> we know that many of us are experiencing enormous ETAs on downloading
> ASCII Beta images from http://files.devuan.org
> 
> The reason is that we just didn't expect so many people were waiting
> for ASCII to come out. Here is a snaphot of the MRTG from one of
> Devuan's servers in the last 20 hours:
> 
>   http://katolaz.homeunix.net/tmp/ascii_beta_release.png
> 
> We have served iso downloads to several thousands unique IPs, and at
> the moment we have several hundred parallel active connections. OVH
> has kindly increased the upload bw on our servers, and we are
> currently working to make additional servers available.
> 
> Well, it seems that they are right in saying that love can be
> "suffocating", at times :D
> 
> In the meanwhile, the best way to get ASCII beta images as soon as
> possible is to back off for a few hours, let the (many) mirrors use
> the availale bandwidth to sync as fast as they can, and then download
> the images from one of the mirrors listed at http://www.devuan.org

Why not offer a BittTrrent download ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
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 And it is not looking good.

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Re: [DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Alexander Bochmann]

...on Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:27:32PM +0100, Alexander Bochmann wrote:

 > Ok, currently reinstalling Debian, and then I'll try again 

WTF - installing from the latest Debian live CD (8.10.5-20180118), 
the same thing happens... How did this ever work?

Sorry for the false alarm.

Alex.

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Re: [DNG] ASCII Beta: too much love? :P

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 06:50:49PM -0300, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:

[cut]

> > 
> > Well, it seems that they are right in saying that love can be
> > "suffocating", at times :D
> > 
> > In the meanwhile, the best way to get ASCII beta images as soon as
> > possible is to back off for a few hours, let the (many) mirrors use
> > the availale bandwidth to sync as fast as they can, and then download
> > the images from one of the mirrors listed at http://www.devuan.org
> 
> Why not offer a BittTrrent download ?
>  

Because it's a Beta. The stable will obviously have a torrent.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Andreas Messer]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:27:32PM +0100, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
> ...on Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:09:17PM +0100, Irrwahn wrote:
> 
>  > Alexander Bochmann wrote on 14.02.2018 21:56:
>  > > System resets before even loading Devuan-built grub. 
>  > Now that is particularly odd, as grub is not among the packages 
>  > that were forked by Devuan but rather is merged from Debian. 
> 
> Agh, odd indeed. Just my bad luck again? It is old hardware 
> after all...

As far as i understand, GCC 6 in Devuan and Debian uses
by default march=i686. This default setting is used when building
all the packages for the i386 arch.

So your C3 is probably too old. You could rebuild gcc package
using another default value for march in a e.g. VM. and then 
install this package and rebuild all packages you need on your 
C3 machine based on that ;-) But thats quite some work to do.

Andreas
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Re: [DNG] ASCII Beta: too much love? :P

[Simon Hobson]

KatolaZ  wrote:

>> Why not offer a BittTrrent download ?
> 
> Because it's a Beta. The stable will obviously have a torrent.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why does being a beta preclude offering a 
torrent ?
It looks like it would have made a huge difference to distributing the file(s).

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[DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[Fungal-net]

devuanfwojg73k6r.onion  and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever 
been the same?

The reason I am asking is in the past couple of months I witnessed ups and 
downs where there were differences and packages existing on one repository 
naming scheme and the other differed, making upgrade procedures to produce 
different results.  In some cases a few weeks ago and while testing the ascii 
distribution the upgrade through the onion address caused total failure of a 
very functional installation.
A first indication that something was seriously wrong was about the time that 
OpenRC and eudev had made it to ascii but at a different naming scheme than 
they existed in experimental.  Eventually through some help from fsmithred for 
older installations with OpenRC the eudev upgrade was possible in ascii.  In 
new installations of ascii where OpenRC and eudev were to be installed the 
primary problem reappeared as it was evident back in December.  The pkgs were 
there but some dependencies were missing.  Weird as it was switching to the 
pkgmaster.devuan.org names of the repositories the missing pkgs WERE there.

After nearly a month has passed NOBODY from the devuan forum cared to transfer 
this puzzling behavior here.  It is evident as per the archives of this list 
that this problem had appeared before, "before it was announced that the onion 
repositories had been forwarding to pkgmaster without the users knowing that 
they had been kicked over to a beta system", and a fault with "pkgmaster" and 
amprolla3 had been taken care of.  Obviously the problem reappeared later.  
After all kinds of havoc and banning of the person reporting the problem took 
place in the "officially official devuan forum" the behavior of the variability 
of the two claimed identical repositories seemed to have magically cured itself 
yet again.

So here is the bottom line technical question as per advise by devuan forum 
admins to be raised here:
We have repository.corporation.name.com = tziberish.onion and the later one 
points exactly at the same server (claimed to be amprolla3 powered pkgmaster).  
 You udpate on that repository and you get a release file and a gpg key that 
verifies the validity of that release file.  You switch between the two names, 
and it "reloads" updates that file as it is a different "new" file, with the 
same gpg key.  Why is this?  Why if it the same server doesn't apt (or apt-get) 
recognize it as the same release file?

What are the implications of a repository being claimed to be the same with two 
addresses and in fact being a different, even if slightly different, or even if 
the contents are the same but it is actually a different server?  How long were 
onion address users exposed to a beta repository system before they were told 
they had been "pushed over to it"?

Gus, from sysdfree.wordpress.org --> not the same person that was banned from 
the forum.

PS   Since GoLinux had a month to transfer this complaint and this issue here 
for technical advise and chose to keep it a secret from the list, I shall hope 
GoLinux will respect the OP and do not express any opinion on the matter, just 
so tones can be kept at a low level, if that can be possible.

PS2  If one cares to look back at the archives about the following: 
(libcommons-pool-java and eclypse package) problems, one would find that the 
problem had been reported to the list before and there was assurance that the 
problem in amprolla3 had been "fixed".  It seems as the problem wasn't 
permanently fixed or even addressed the correct way.  It was just specifically 
showing as a non-continuing problem.

PS3   Maybe irrelevant, but could ascii exacerbate some problems as going from 
jessie to ascii packages may have a lower number version in ascii than in 
jessie, which makes the installation different than if it was a straight ascii 
build?  And those packages must be devuan specific (or specifically held back) 
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[DNG] MATE issues: Re: IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Svante Signell]

On Wed, 2018-02-14 at 21:20 +0300, Hleb Valoshka wrote:
> On 2/14/18, Irrwahn  wrote:
> 
> > Fresh installations of Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta should not be affected.
> 
> Actually no, i've installed Ascii for testing purposes and systemd
> policykit backend was pulled.

What is dragging in elogind? I did an apt-get upgrade from an earlier version of
ASCII and still have not upgraded policykit-1 (current is 0.105-18+devuan2.1).

However, that upgrade installed the following elogind packages:
elogind  234.4-1+devuan1.5
libelogind0:amd64234.4-1+devuan1.5
libpam-elogind:amd64 234.4-1+devuan1.5

apt-get upgrade shows:
The following packages have been kept back:
  gir1.2-polkit-1.0 libpolkit-agent-1-0 policykit-1

Desktop is MATE.

Doing a dist-upgrade would remove the following packages(i.e. a catastrophy):
colord gir1.2-mate-polkit libpolkit-gtk-mate-1-0 mate-applets mate-control-
center mate-desktop-environment mate-desktop-environment-core mate-panel mate-
polkit mate-power-manager mate-settings-daemon policykit-1 synaptic

Trying selectively gives:
apt-get -s install policykit-1

OK:
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0

Not OK, here the consolekit backend packages should have been installed:
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libpolkit-backend-1-0-systemd libpolkit-gobject-1-0-systemd

OK:
The following packages will be upgraded:
  gir1.2-polkit-1.0 libpolkit-agent-1-0 policykit-1

This command intend to do the right thing:
apt-get -s install policykit-1 libpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit libpolkit-
gobject-1-0-consolekit

As a first step, why not just remove the systemd backend packages?
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[Didier Kryn]

Le 14/02/2018 à 17:17, J. Fahrner a écrit :

Am 2018-02-14 17:05, schrieb Didier Kryn:


Everything works fine, except slim has lost its beautifull background.
Now its background is just grey.


Yout /etc/slim.conf should have a line

current_theme desktop-slim-theme

And the theme files are in package desktop-base


    The line is there in /etc/slim.conf

    And the file exists in several places:

root@apcnb98:/home/kryn# locate desktop-slim-theme
/etc/alternatives/desktop-slim-theme
/usr/share/slim/themes/desktop-slim-theme
/var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/desktop-slim-theme


Le 14/02/2018 à 18:32, Irrwahn a écrit :

H ... you might try to (re-)install the desktop-base package from
Devuan. It has the theme for slim IIRC (among other stuff).
    Did it with no effect - I did a reboot. Probably just restarting 
slim would have sufficed.


    Still grey. BTW the file isn't found by apt-file:

root@apcnb98:/home/kryn# apt-file search desktop-slim-theme
root@apcnb98:/home/kryn#

        Didier



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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[Fungal-net]

 Original Message 
 On February 15, 2018 1:28 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

>On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 05:24:27PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:
>>devuanfwojg73k6r.onion  and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever 
>>been the same?
>>
>
> They are the same machine and always have been (since late September
> or early October 2017, more or less). The rewrites on pkgmaster are to
> the corresponding Debian mirrors. The rewrites on the onion address
> are on the corresponding Debian onion address. We don't have control
> on them.

Ohh so it has been "that" long that onion repository users have been beta 
testing amprolla3?  And when has the announcement been placed for users to be 
aware?  

> You won't believe it, but you are not the only one using tor here, but
> apparently the only one reporting problems on tor. Have you considered
> the possibility that there might be a problem either in your config or
> in the way you access the repos via tor?

Apparently you didn't read the whole message or reviewed the archive, but I 
believe you, yourself, was involved in this early december list discussion 
about someone testifying to what I am saying.  Packages available through "the 
other repositories" were not available throug the onion address.  It seems as 
you are aware of the problem that I am reporting as it was reported in the 
forum, before this message appeared on the list.  How long has this been?  Why 
didn't you get involved in the forum when the problem was reported?
If there was a problem on "our" side why didn't it ever appear as a problem in 
any of the mutlitude of debian based installations.  I'd like to think that if 
it is a consequence of a bad practice it would appear in Debian as well.  Not 
once, I assure you.

> You should use tor:// or tor+http:// with the onion address, and
> http:// or https:// with pkgmaster. The reason is that the whole thing
> is based on FQDNs http rewrites., and if you mix them up you might
> experience problems.

Are you saying now, and this is a new take on explaining the unexplainable, and 
please readers feel free to intervene here and point out the obvious to me, 
what is the problem of reaching pkgmaster via tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org?  All 
you would know, being the gate keeper on the repository side, is that someone 
through https:// is reaching pkgmaster from the exit node.  Nothing else!  If 
you can see something, other than "graylisting" tor exit nodes, I am sure the 
torpoject people would like to know.  The difference with an onion address is 
that the connection doesn't go out to clearnet to reach the destination, but 
the target is one and the same.  Right?

I don't know what is going on with the internals of the repository and I don't 
know whether the "users" would care to know.  The questions was simple, are 
they or are they not the same.  What is your response?  Beating around the bush?

How do your internals separate a hit on an onion address from one from clearnet 
so amprolla3 and is forwarding those to the debian.onion address?  This brings 
a new twist into the equation.  You are forwarding one connection out of tor 
and back into tor and onto debian.   I am not sure this is a good idea as far 
as anonymity is concerned.  

   As has been reported by torproject, not yet explained, somehow if you 
make "one connection" through tor, out in clearnet and back through tor your 
identity is revealed.  *

Are you saying this is what amprolla3 has been doing since 9-10/2017?

But where has this practice been documented before this "official" 
announcement?  Here you are admitting the onion address is NOT the same with 
packagemaster because the forwarding is done to two separate debian addresses.  
Yoy can only be responsible with your addressing scheme, there is no way for 
you to certify that the debian.org and its onion address are the same, just the 
same way we are trying to establish whether they are in fact the same here.

It is pretty clear on our side that "occassionaly" they have not been as when 
you do an update on pkgmaster and it says no upgrades, and consecutively you do 
the same on the onion address and shows both pkgs to be  upgraded and pkgs to 
be removed (apt-get dist-upgrade), or when in the same time frame openrc and 
eudev were available with dependencies on ascii but dependencies were missing 
through the onion address (no other changes to repository structure, just the 
address).  

> Again: nothing has changed since October in the way we redirect the
> onion address. Nothing at all. Also, even if not relevant,
>pkgmaster.devuan.org and auto.mirror.devuan.org have the very same set
> of packages (pkgmaster gets its package lists from the same source
> auto.mirror gets its package lists), so other speculations about
> inconsistent repos are not supported by any logic.

No, it is not relevant.  What is relevant is whether the onion address points 
to pkgmaster at this point.  You 

Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 07:43:30PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Obviously the way you are handling the response to me is evidence that there 
> is something to the story.
> 
> PLEASE do not forget to point us to the reference on when was there a public 
> announcement that onion address users were shoved over to a beta testing 
> system.  I simply have missed it.
> 
> What I am trying to establish here is trust in devuan's officially announced 
> means of accessing the repositories.  How important this may be is an other 
> issue I do not care to discuss here.  We are all mature kids we can think for 
> ourselves.


It is not clear at all what you want to "establish" here.

The officially announced means of accessing Devuan repositories are
explained at www.devuan.org. The repositories are signed with the
signatures available in the package devuan-keyring. The fact that the
onion address points to a server or another is irrelevant. You have to
trust the signatures on the Release files, and this is done
automatically by apt. Alternatively, you can download the pubkeys,
download the InRelease files, and verify them by hand. 

You don't seem to have any specific technical issue to point out, only
rants to vomit. And your preference for writing long emails do not
help identifying the technical content (if any) which you are
referring to.

You have not yet provided a technical description of the kind of
breakage you have experienced, if any.

Please be specific, and we will try to help you. 

HTH

KatolaZ

-- 
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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Fungal-net]

Please don''t let the Grouch break up your valentine party but would anyone 
care to elaborate on the following scenario?

We have Joe, Jill, Jack, and Mindy.
Joe  is running Wheezy and converts to Ascii
Jill is running Devuan 1 Jessie and converts to ascii
Jack is running Stretch and converts to Ascii
and finally Mindy just installs Ascii-beta-2.0

Don't ask me, I have been running ascii for a quite a while now and my 
experience with Jessie has been from first boot to the second.  And I have run 
OpenRC and eudev ever since they appeared in experimental.

All four of the above have same packages installed in the versions that they 
exist in those 4 situations.

1   Is the end product different?
2   Should the end product be different.
3   The packages that are available and keep upgrading in the debian branch of 
merged, do they appear to all four of them as they do in the debian repository? 
 In other words If you add debian stretch to the repositories the versions "in 
merged ascii" and in stretch should be the same. right?  Live at any given 
minute?  That is what amprolla3 is doing, right?
Are they?

Because as per a couple of hours ago it seems as I have been exposed to this 
amprolla3 for 4-5 months now, without knowing, and although I run about the 
same stuff on a test debian isntallations, pkgs there rain down to the level of 
about 20-30/day, while ascii has been pretty inactive in terms of upgrades.  So 
what exactly is merged with devuan?

 Original Message 
 On February 14, 2018 11:44 PM, Steve Litt  wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:48:20 +0100
> Veteran Unix Admins free...@devuan.org wrote:
>
>>Dear dev1rs
>>the Veteran Unix Admins salute you!
>>On February 14th 2015, Devuan unveiled a "pre-alpha" Valentine release
>> of Devuan Jessie [1] just a few months after the Veteran Unix Admins
>> declared their intention to fork Debian on November 27th 2014 [2].
>> That was the beginning of our collective journey. Now, three years
>> later, Valentine's day has more love for the Devuan community.  The
>> long-awaited release of Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta (minor planet nr. 3568)
>> is here!
>>So what's new in Devuan 2.0 ASCII Beta?
>>
>>
>> - OpenRC is installable using the expert install path
>> (thanks Maemo Leste!)
>>
>> - eudev has replaced systemd-udev (thanks Gentoo!)
>>
>> - elogind has been added as an alternative to consolekit
>> (thanks Gentoo!)
>>
>> - Desktop users can choose among fully functional XFCE (Default), KDE,
>> Cinnamon, LXQT, MATE, and LXDE desktops
>>
>> - CLI-oriented users can select the "Console productivity" task that
>> installs a fully-featured set of console-based utils and tools.
>>
>> - A .vdi disk image is now provided for use with VirtualBox.
>>
>> - ARM board kernels have been updated to 4.14 and 4.15 for most
>> boards.
>>
>>
> Holy cow, you're leaving Debian behind. Our own udev and consolekit
> replacements! Very, very nice!
>
> SteveT
>
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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[Fungal-net]

If you are officially representing Devuan and "a long email" described why 
Devuan should not be trusted, I'd say it is your problem the inability to read 
and understand the technical content.  If you are really unable to understand 
the technical content of this "long email" then you are definetely the wrong 
person to be "officially" responding.

What else is there to say?  If I no longer trust devuan for the very specific 
reasons and evidence I have provided why would I have a technical problem and 
if I did why would I trust you to help me with it?

End of story, I think.  Nowhere in either of my two previous "long messages" 
have I even hinted to a "personal issue or technical problem I need help with".

Your response is every proof I needed that there is something fishy going on.  
It may be legal to be deceiving people but the question is whether it is 
ethical and whether once you discover a rat are you responsible to make the 
discovery public.  That is the dilemma.   There is nothing technical about it!


 Original Message 
 On February 15, 2018 3:04 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

>On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 07:43:30PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>Obviously the way you are handling the response to me is evidence that there 
>>is something to the story.
>>PLEASE do not forget to point us to the reference on when was there a public 
>>announcement that onion address users were shoved over to a beta testing 
>>system.  I simply have missed it.
>>What I am trying to establish here is trust in devuan's officially announced 
>>means of accessing the repositories.  How important this may be is an other 
>>issue I do not care to discuss here.  We are all mature kids we can think for 
>>ourselves.
>>
>
>
> It is not clear at all what you want to "establish" here.
>
> The officially announced means of accessing Devuan repositories are
> explained at www.devuan.org. The repositories are signed with the
> signatures available in the package devuan-keyring. The fact that the
> onion address points to a server or another is irrelevant. You have to
> trust the signatures on the Release files, and this is done
> automatically by apt. Alternatively, you can download the pubkeys,
> download the InRelease files, and verify them by hand.
>
> You don't seem to have any specific technical issue to point out, only
> rants to vomit. And your preference for writing long emails do not
> help identifying the technical content (if any) which you are
> referring to.
>
> You have not yet provided a technical description of the kind of
> breakage you have experienced, if any.
>
> Please be specific, and we will try to help you.
>
> HTH
>
> KatolaZ
>
>
>[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]
> [ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ]
> [   @) http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
> [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ]
> [ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]
>
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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Jaromil]

Thanks for your accurate answer Patrick 

if Fungal keeps pontifying unsubstantiated
claims and denigrating conspiracy theories against
us after your answer, it will be banned
from here too. OTOH to anyone who is
reading and wants to bring to our attention
a problem in beta: you are welcome to
express it in detail and based on the
troubleshooting method Patrick suggests.
We will be grateful.

But none of the problems raised were so far
proven and, in case they are, they all
refer to a pre-beta and now beta system
(ASCII) which we are keen to fix.

ciao
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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[tilt!]

Fungal-net,

could you please tone down, and furthermore condense your critique, such 
that it can be read and understood?


If you have found a gap in the documentation that causes trouble to 
users, please point it out.


Kind regards,
T.

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Re: [DNG] Devuan ASCII 2.0.0 Beta released

[Patrick Meade]

On Wed, 2018-02-14 at 20:07 -0500, Fungal-net wrote:
> Because as per a couple of hours ago it seems as I have been exposed
> to this amprolla3 for 4-5 months now, without knowing, and although I
> run about the same stuff on a test debian isntallations, pkgs there
> rain down to the level of about 20-30/day, while ascii has been
> pretty inactive in terms of upgrades.  So what exactly is merged with
> devuan?

Hi Fungus,

Instead of asking, I think you should just point the browser of your
choice at the public repository:

http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/

Here you can browse everything served up by pkgmaster. You might want
to start with the /devuan and /merged directories.

Next, you can do something like:

curl -v http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/dists/

And follow that up with:

torsocks curl -v http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged/dists/

In both cases, you should get the same content. The only exception
(that I'm aware) would be the pkgmaster rewrites for Debian hosted
packages. That is, if Devuan didn't have to alter a package because we
didn't need to, then we allow Debian to provide it.

So, for example, when I curl this package:

curl -v http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN-SECURITY/updates
/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.4.10-10+deb8u11_amd64.deb

I end up with this as the redirect:

< Location: http://deb.debian.org/debian-security/pool/updates/main/a/a
pache2/apache2_2.4.10-10+deb8u11_amd64.deb

But, if I curl through torsocks:

torsocks curl -v http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged/pool/DEBIAN-SECUR
ITY/updates/main/a/apache2/apache2_2.4.10-10+deb8u11_amd64.deb

I end up with a tor redirect:

< Location: http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security/pool/updates/
main/a/apache2/apache2_2.4.10-10+deb8u11_amd64.deb

Truly, I think KatolaZ can write e-mail until his fingers fall off and
you will not believe him. However, the above should be enough to get
started in conducting your own experiments. You don't have to believe
or trust me, KatolaZ, or anybody else. You are a mature person who can
can think for himself.

AND .. if you do find something odd/wrong, you'll have the commands to
give everybody to prove that you are right. This may have the side-
effect of allowing us to find and fix any problems as well.

Good luck!

Best,
Patrick

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Re: [DNG] warning: Devuan jessie i386 doesn't boot on i586

[Jaromil]

On 14 February 2018 23:06:34 CET, Andreas Messer  wrote:
>On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:27:32PM +0100, Alexander Bochmann wrote:
>> ...on Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:09:17PM +0100, Irrwahn wrote:
>> 
>>  > Alexander Bochmann wrote on 14.02.2018 21:56:
>>  > > System resets before even loading Devuan-built grub. 
>>  > Now that is particularly odd, as grub is not among the packages 
>>  > that were forked by Devuan but rather is merged from Debian. 
>> 
>> Agh, odd indeed. Just my bad luck again? It is old hardware 
>> after all...
>
>As far as i understand, GCC 6 in Devuan and Debian uses
>by default march=i686. This default setting is used when building
>all the packages for the i386 arch.

oh, this is so sad :-(

I wish we can fix this one day...

ciao
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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[m712]

Forwarding to the ML because I messed up the recipient.

On February 15, 2018 3:43:30 AM GMT+03:00, Fungal-net 
 wrote:
>Are you saying now, and this is a new take on explaining the
>unexplainable, and please readers feel free to intervene here and point
>out the obvious to me, what is the problem of reaching pkgmaster via
>tor://pkgmaster.devuan.org?  All you would know, being the gate keeper
>on the repository side, is that someone through https:// is reaching
>pkgmaster from the exit node.  Nothing else!  If you can see something,
>other than "graylisting" tor exit nodes, I am sure the torpoject people
>would like to know.  The difference with an onion address is that the
>connection doesn't go out to clearnet to reach the destination, but the
>target is one and the same.  Right?
It means that when you access https://pkgmaster.d.o, the clearnet debian repos 
are used for any unmodified packages, and if you use the onion, the tor 
repositories are used.
>I don't know what is going on with the internals of the repository and
>I don't know whether the "users" would care to know.  The questions was
>simple, are they or are they not the same.  What is your response? 
>Beating around the bush?
Nice accusation but you haven't provided any technical details and frankly 
nobody gives a flying fsck about your accusations. Provide technical evidence 
or be quiet.
>   As has been reported by torproject, not yet explained, somehow
>if you make "one connection" through tor, out in clearnet and back
>through tor your identity is revealed.  *
How is this relevant? The only one making clearnet connections (if any) would 
be pkgmaster, and it already has a public IP. This feels like fearmongering.
>But where has this practice been documented before this "official"
>announcement?  Here you are admitting the onion address is NOT the same
>with packagemaster because the forwarding is done to two separate
>debian addresses.
No, he just said that the debian clearnet repo is used for https, and debian 
tor repo is used for tor.
>It is obviously a logic problem when you say that they are the same
>when you describe that they aren't.  Am I crazy here or did you just
>admit that an onion connection is forwarded differently than a clearnet
>connection?
Yes, he did, and this is perfectly fine.
>And it is obvious that even though I make a clear reference that on
>this list the problem was brought up in early December just as I
>described it, it was cared for and addressed then, it was reported "as
>fixed" for that particular occasion.  Did you forget it, do you
>selectively pretend it is an isolated issue that only occurs "here" and
>you are clueless to how many people witnessed the problem, or is with
>"your logic" the issue a non-problem if only one person reports on it?
Evidence.
>Obviously the way you are handling the response to me is evidence that
>there is something to the story.
Or it's simply evidence that you're talking out of your backend.
>PLEASE do not forget to point us to the reference on when was there a
>public announcement that onion address users were shoved over to a beta
>testing system.  I simply have missed it.
amprolla3 has been stable for a while now, IDK what you're talking about.

m712();
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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[m712]

Forwarding to the ML because I messed up the recipient.

On February 15, 2018 4:21:03 AM GMT+03:00, Fungal-net 
 wrote:
>If you are officially representing Devuan and "a long email" described
>why Devuan should not be trusted, I'd say it is your problem the
>inability to read and understand the technical content.  If you are
>really unable to understand the technical content of this "long email"
>then you are definetely the wrong person to be "officially" responding.
What technical content?
>What else is there to say?  If I no longer trust devuan for the very
>specific reasons and evidence I have provided why would I have a
>technical problem and if I did why would I trust you to help me with
>it?
What exact evidence? Please, I must be fscking stupid, explain it in simple 
terms.
>Your response is every proof I needed that there is something fishy
>going on.  It may be legal to be deceiving people but the question is
>whether it is ethical and whether once you discover a rat are you
>responsible to make the discovery public.  That is the dilemma.   There
>is nothing technical about it!
You're free to conspire until the end of time mate, it doesn't change the fact 
that it's still bullsh!t.

m712();
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Re: [DNG] IMPORTANT! How to fix degraded session management after Devuan ASCII upgrade.

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-02-14 23:51, schrieb Didier Kryn:

    The line is there in /etc/slim.conf

    And the file exists in several places:

root@apcnb98:/home/kryn# locate desktop-slim-theme
/etc/alternatives/desktop-slim-theme
/usr/share/slim/themes/desktop-slim-theme
/var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/desktop-slim-theme


Ok, now try "update-alternatives --config desktop-slim-theme" and select 
the theme devuan-curve-darkpurpy.

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Re: [DNG] devuanfwojg73k6r.onion and pkgmaster.devuan.org are they and have they ever been the same?

[KatolaZ]

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 08:21:03PM -0500, Fungal-net wrote:
> 
> Your response is every proof I needed that there is something fishy going on. 
>  It may be legal to be deceiving people but the question is whether it is 
> ethical and whether once you discover a rat are you responsible to make the 
> discovery public.  That is the dilemma.   There is nothing technical about it!
> 

Dear Fungal-net,

If the rat you have discovered is that we ensure that users accessing
our repos through the onion address are redirected to debian's own
onion address (for packages that come from debian), instead than to a
clearnet address, then you have discovered a dove, not a rat, and a
lively one. This is a feature, not a bug.

Concerning trust: that will never be an automatic thing, rather a very
personal one. The ultimate person who decides if you should or should
not trust something or somebody is just yourself.

The way amprolla works (by rewriting packages not in Devuan) is
publicly known. The source code of amprolla is available at:

  https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla3

Our repos are signed with GPG keys, published on different locations
and accessible by different means. All our isos are signed with the
GPG key of the developers responsible for them. 

I am very sorry you somehow lost trust in Devuan, but given the amount
of anger you evidently have accumulated, I don't see how else we can
help you. I hope you might decide to come back onboard, but if this is
not the case, I really wish you to find the distro of your choice, the
one that you can trust.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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