Re: [Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[hubert]

The solution I am using is put G20  in RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE of the 
original ini file.  Then each time I startup, I select inch in view.  
Much easier than recomputing all the velocity and acceleration values.

On my other mill's I had always used Stepconf and selected Inches.  This 
is the first time I've needed to change units.

I still need to get all configuration parameters from the vendor, as I 
still have the ATC, Tool setter and Reneshaw probe to add into the 
system.  This is based on a Mesa 5I25 7I76 interface.

Hubert


On 10/18/16 8:04 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 October 2016 04:44:00 andy pugh wrote:
>
>> On 18 October 2016 at 04:05, hubert  wrote:
>>> My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I
>>> prefer inches.
>> You can just set the GUI to display inches and issue a G20 (?) command
>> and the machine will be, effectively, an imperial machine.
>> (I am not sure it is G20, as I very rarely swap units, and the main
>> linuxcnc site seems to be down from here)
> You are correct Andy, G20 is inches, G21 is mm's for input code units.
>
> But he'll likely have to revert all his .ini file changes before it will
> work right. He can preset that at linuxcnc startup time by editing the
> initialization string in the axis.ini file if he is using axis.
>
> Example from TLM:
> [RS274NGC]
> RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE=G8 G18 G21 G40 G49 G64 P.005 Q.005 G80 G90 G94 G97
>
> Thats for a lathe of course as G7/G8 is lathe specific
> And the G18 sets the active axis's to x/z for g2/g3 moves.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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[Emc-users] New stepper-servo

[Danny Miller]

A friend showed me this today, not powered up yet:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tropicallabs/mechaduino-powerful-open-source-industrial-servo-m

At first I was confused, it says it's a stepper, but with an encoder, 
and lowers or disables drive current when not needed.  Or you can 
freewheel it and it'll maintain the coordinate system.  It cannot stall 
without the system knowing, and a stall won't corrupt the coordinate system.

But there's no mechanical connection to the motor, it's this new AS5047D 
high speed, high resolution magnetic rotary position sensor:

http://ams.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Position-Sensors/Angle-Position-On-Axis/AS5047D

You glue a magnet to the rear of the motor shaft, and keep the sensor 
like 1/4" away.  Note it not only counts delta, it knows absolute rotor 
position.

Gives 2000 counts/rev.  That's enough that it could effectively show 
rotor phase through a single fullstep, which would allow for more stable 
electrical control of stepping.  There's an initial calibration phase 
that drives a phase so it knows where the TDC of Coil A is in absolute 
position.

They set it up so it powers down and freewheels, except it will hold its 
position by powering coils when needed.  It can also reduce current to 
product only the torque needed to follow the step commands, instead of 
always operating at full current.

Well, my mind is blown!

Danny



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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.10.16 10:45, Chris Albertson wrote:
> As for oil resistance, Buy the "plenum" type.  They use teflon insolation
> and don't cost that much more.These are sold because of fire codes in
> some kinds of buildings, they don't create toxic smoke in a fire.

Silicone insulation, perhaps? After all, teflon releases hydrofluoric
acid at high temperatures - definitely toxic. Silicone resists heat well
too, and burns to sand, which can even maintain the insulation if contained
and immobile. Silicone is soft and rubbery, while teflon is harder and
stiffer, and a genuine PITA to strip, I found. 

When we needed some silicone insulated wire for automotive¹ use here in
Australia 38 years ago, we had to have it made to order. ISTR the teflon
was a good deal more expensive, as well as a pain.

Erik

¹ Ford XD Falcon's LED digital clock.

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Re: [Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[andy pugh]

On 18 October 2016 at 04:05, hubert  wrote:
> My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I prefer
> inches.

You can just set the GUI to display inches and issue a G20 (?) command
and the machine will be, effectively, an imperial machine.
(I am not sure it is G20, as I very rarely swap units, and the main
linuxcnc site seems to be down from here)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Ver 2.8

[Greg Bentzinger]

Not trying to pester anyone. I am finally getting down to the actual electrical 
install and beginning to wire things up.

So I am going to need HALui and many of the other tools to sort out signals 
soon.


Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go mainstream or 
if I should just work with 2.7.x for now.

This is for my #2 Hurco, a 1987 KM3 Knee type with Quill Z axis. I will be 
using a 5i25/7i77 driving Randtronics/CMC ServoMate amps with Electrocraft 4 
brush servos with tach & encoder feedback.

Initially it should be fairly simple. X/Y/Z M3/M4/M5 M8/M9 with the actual rpm 
set by the hand crank Vari-belt drive and no rpm feedback. Once that is up and 
running awhile I will try to fix Hurco #1 OEM control - I never considered how 
much damage could be done by allowing the backup (BIOS) battery to go dead. 
Machine can't even read the OEM keyboard because it can't find the HDD to load 
the driver.

When Hurco #1 is back in the game we will go back and upgrade Hurco #2 adding 
gear tooth sensors, complete a full 4th axis, rig a stepper to preset the 
Vari-drive to nominal then allow a VFD to compensate for changing cutter loads. 
If things go really well I might even jump the shark and add a "W" axis powered 
knee.

I'm guessing that there won't be a last call for v2.8 until after the FEST but 
I was wondering if there was a wild guess in the back of someones mind as to 
when that might be.

And thanks everyone for your work!

Greg, out yonder in Colorado.

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Re: [Emc-users] Misc implementation questions

[Erik Friesen]

Thanks for this info.

Has anyone implemented spindle load monitoring per tool like the Haas
control?  What would this take, adding a line in the tool table plus
some tweaks?



On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
> You can find explanations in the documentation
>
>
> HOME_OFFSET =0.0 - the amount you want to
> table to move from the homed zero position after the index pulse is found
> and the encoder position has been set to zero. You don't necessarily need
> to know exactly how this works prior to homing. Just leave zero, home the
> machine and see what happens.
> Then put a value in, home the machine and see what happens.
> You can then adjust what value you put in to achieve your desired home
> position.
>
> HOME_SEARCH_VEL =20.0 - the speed to move the axis when
> you are homing (+ or - determine direction)
>
> HOME_LATCH_VEL = 20.0   -  the speed to move the axis
> after hitting the home (or limit) switch while searching for the index
> pulse (again + or - determines direction)
>
> HOME_USE_INDEX = NO- YES here tells the controller
> to read the encoder index pulse connection. The encoder board then sets the
> position to zero upon seeing (finding) the index pulse.
>
> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO- YES here tells the control to
> ignore the axis limit switches while homing. This allow the limit switch to
> also be used as a home switch to start the search for the index pulse.
>
> HOME_SEQUENCE = 1   - check the manual for using
> this
> HOME_IS_SHARED = 1   - check the manual for using
> this
>
> These parameters are found in the ini file
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:03 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 17 October 2016 at 14:40, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>> > Ok, but what about homing?
>>
>> I think homing uses the encoder "position" pin, which zeroes when index
>> resets.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> 
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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> If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to read
> this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this without saving or
> reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my private
> correspondence.
> Thank you for honoring my wish.
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Re: [Emc-users] converting from mm to inches

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 October 2016 04:44:00 andy pugh wrote:

> On 18 October 2016 at 04:05, hubert  wrote:
> > My machine was initially setup by my vendor to mm.  Personally I
> > prefer inches.
>
> You can just set the GUI to display inches and issue a G20 (?) command
> and the machine will be, effectively, an imperial machine.
> (I am not sure it is G20, as I very rarely swap units, and the main
> linuxcnc site seems to be down from here)

You are correct Andy, G20 is inches, G21 is mm's for input code units.

But he'll likely have to revert all his .ini file changes before it will 
work right. He can preset that at linuxcnc startup time by editing the 
initialization string in the axis.ini file if he is using axis.

Example from TLM:
[RS274NGC]
RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE=G8 G18 G21 G40 G49 G64 P.005 Q.005 G80 G90 G94 G97

Thats for a lathe of course as G7/G8 is lathe specific
And the G18 sets the active axis's to x/z for g2/g3 moves.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[John Thornton]

That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64

If you set G64 P  you get something else
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64

If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1

JT

On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
>
> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
>
> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
>
> --
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

[andy pugh]

On 18 October 2016 at 08:40, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go mainstream 
> or if I should just work with 2.7.x for now.

I would build on the current 2.8 dev version. It will save trouble
converting the config in the future. I have been running various JA
flavours on all my machines for years with no problems.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 October 2016 08:04:13 andy pugh wrote:

> On 18 October 2016 at 08:40, Greg Bentzinger  
wrote:
> > Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go
> > mainstream or if I should just work with 2.7.x for now.
>
> I would build on the current 2.8 dev version. It will save trouble
> converting the config in the future. I have been running various JA
> flavours on all my machines for years with no problems.

I have been too, updated daily. and I haven't gotten any paper cuts from 
it in quite some time. Those I have encountered were usually fixed in 
the next days update, or were PEBKAC.

All my machines are net connected obviously.  With a good router, 
reflashed to DD-WRT, any hack attempts have all been repulsed for years.  
I used to watch the logs, but that got boring, I've better things to 
waste time on.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

[Todd Zuercher]

I am more of the opinion, that if you don't need the features in the unreleased 
version, stick with the stable released one. (my vote for 2.7)

- Original Message -
From: "andy pugh" 
To: "Greg Bentzinger" , "Enhanced Machine Controller 
(EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 8:04:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

On 18 October 2016 at 08:40, Greg Bentzinger  wrote:
> Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go mainstream 
> or if I should just work with 2.7.x for now.

I would build on the current 2.8 dev version. It will save trouble
converting the config in the future. I have been running various JA
flavours on all my machines for years with no problems.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Erik Friesen]

I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg

I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.

How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?

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Re: [Emc-users] Misc implementation questions

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 October 2016 08:41:41 Erik Friesen wrote:

> Thanks for this info.
>
> Has anyone implemented spindle load monitoring per tool like the Haas
> control?  What would this take, adding a line in the tool table plus
> some tweaks?

I occasionally put a halmeter on the pid.s.error but haven't attempted to 
scale that to a % of load output.  Its noisy, so would need some lowpass 
filtering, or does here.
>
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Stuart Stevenson  
wrote:
> > You can find explanations in the documentation
> >
> >
> > HOME_OFFSET =0.0 - the amount you
> > want to table to move from the homed zero position after the index
> > pulse is found and the encoder position has been set to zero. You
> > don't necessarily need to know exactly how this works prior to
> > homing. Just leave zero, home the machine and see what happens.
> > Then put a value in, home the machine and see what happens.
> > You can then adjust what value you put in to achieve your desired
> > home position.
> >
> > HOME_SEARCH_VEL =20.0 - the speed to move the
> > axis when you are homing (+ or - determine direction)
> >
> > HOME_LATCH_VEL = 20.0   -  the speed to move the
> > axis after hitting the home (or limit) switch while searching for
> > the index pulse (again + or - determines direction)
> >
> > HOME_USE_INDEX = NO- YES here tells the
> > controller to read the encoder index pulse connection. The encoder
> > board then sets the position to zero upon seeing (finding) the index
> > pulse.
> >
> > HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO- YES here tells the control
> > to ignore the axis limit switches while homing. This allow the limit
> > switch to also be used as a home switch to start the search for the
> > index pulse.
> >
> > HOME_SEQUENCE = 1   - check the manual for
> > using this
> > HOME_IS_SHARED = 1   - check the manual for
> > using this
> >
> > These parameters are found in the ini file
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:03 AM, andy pugh  
wrote:
> >> On 17 October 2016 at 14:40, Erik Friesen  wrote:
> >> > Ok, but what about homing?
> >>
> >> I think homing uses the encoder "position" pin, which zeroes when
> >> index resets.
> >>
> >> --
> >> atp
> >> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils
> >> and lunatics."
> >> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >>
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
> > Addressee is the intended audience.
> > If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for you to
> > read this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this
> > without saving or reading, and cease and desist from saving or
> > opening my private correspondence.
> > Thank you for honoring my wish.
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Nicklas Karlsson]

There seems to be small disreptancy in manual for at least 2.6:
  G61 - exact path mode. G61 visits the programmed point exactly, even though 
that means temporarily coming to a complete stop.
  G61.1 - exact stop mode. Same as G61

G61 do not need to stop although it might happen because otherwise it fail to 
reach exact point. G61.1 come to a complete halt at point.

I say to change the manual would make sense.



On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
"Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:

> Yes, a quick test seems to show that for co-linear points G61 doesn't stop 
> but G61.1 does.  Maybe the docs should be adjusted to reflect that.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Thornton" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:56:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> 
> Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end 
> point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of 
> them...
> 
> JT
> 
> On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway 
> > different from plain G61?
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John Thornton" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> >
> > That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> >
> > If you set G64 P  you get something else
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> >
> > If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> >> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
> >> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
> >> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
> >> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
> >> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
> >>
> >> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
> >> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
> >>
> >> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Chris Albertson]

Looked like teflon to me.  Here is the real answer

"Plenum cable is jacketed with a fire-retardant
 plastic jacket of either a
low-smoke polyvinyl chloride
 (PVC) or a fluorinated
ethylene polymer (FEP
). Polyolefin
 formulations,"

It is NOT designed to resist heat.  There is no requirement that it not
melt  The requirement is that it not produce great amounts of toxic smoke
when it does burn.   In practice it is harder and shinier looking than
normal patch cable

I would think that the old fashion telephone handset cable might work too.
  Both types have RJ style connectors so the cable could be replaced in
seconds and they are cheap enough so you could keep a supply of spares and
change them out before they fail.

The shielded type are not the best in terms of flexibility.  The shielding
is done with metabolized foil.

The FIRST CLASS solution is a wireless link.  It only needs to go about a
foot so could be low power enough to run off a coin battery for a long
time.  Either radio or optical  The IR system used in TV removes work well
for short distances.


On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 2:09 AM, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:

> On 17.10.16 10:45, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > As for oil resistance, Buy the "plenum" type.  They use teflon insolation
> > and don't cost that much more.These are sold because of fire codes in
> > some kinds of buildings, they don't create toxic smoke in a fire.
>
> Silicone insulation, perhaps? After all, teflon releases hydrofluoric
> acid at high temperatures - definitely toxic. Silicone resists heat well
> too, and burns to sand, which can even maintain the insulation if contained
> and immobile. Silicone is soft and rubbery, while teflon is harder and
> stiffer, and a genuine PITA to strip, I found.
>
> When we needed some silicone insulated wire for automotive¹ use here in
> Australia 38 years ago, we had to have it made to order. ISTR the teflon
> was a good deal more expensive, as well as a pain.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ Ford XD Falcon's LED digital clock.
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[rayj]

Greetings Prezemek,

I suspect I have been using the ends for solid wire on stranded wire!! 
Do you know where I can get a quick education on which is which and how 
to tell the difference?

TIA,

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 10/17/2016 12:10 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chris Albertson
>  wrote:
>> Ethernet patch cable might work. .  Don't try and make you own.The 
>> pre-made ones come in any
>> length from about 12" to 25 feet and they have those over molded train
> You're absolutely right about buying cables---the cost is so low that
> it doesn't make sense. The patch cords actually get down to few inches
> (3-4"), which is great for local cabling in tight spaces.
>
>
>> The common kind of RF45 termination tools work only with the
>> solid in-wall kind of wire so don't use them.
>
> Actually, it's not the termination tools, but the terminals and plugs
> themselves---they are still insulation-displacing crimps, but the
> shape of the spades is different. In the beginning of the computer era
> we used to make our own cables and used the same tools with different
> plugs---it was a PITA because they looked the same (translucent
> plastic). Unless you opened a new marked box, we used to inspect the
> connector and it wasn't easy---you had to squint at the shape of the
> tiny gold-plated terminals through wavy plastic.
>
> If you used the wrong type for your wire, you'd get a broken wire
> touching the terminal by a tension in the plastic insulation: it might
> work for a little bit, but eventually the lack  of gas-tight
> metal-metal connection would cause it to fail.
>
> I'm saying this because someone might actually make a patch cable in a
> pinch, and that's what you have to pay attention to.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Todd Zuercher]

Yes, a quick test seems to show that for co-linear points G61 doesn't stop but 
G61.1 does.  Maybe the docs should be adjusted to reflect that.

- Original Message -
From: "John Thornton" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:56:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end 
point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of 
them...

JT

On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway different 
> from plain G61?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Thornton" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
>
> That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
>
> If you set G64 P  you get something else
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
>
> If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
>
> JT
>
> On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
>> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
>> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
>> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
>> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
>> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
>>
>> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
>> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
>>
>> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
>>
>> --
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[John Thornton]

Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end 
point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of 
them...

JT

On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway different 
> from plain G61?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Thornton" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
>
> That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
>
> If you set G64 P  you get something else
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
>
> If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
>
> JT
>
> On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
>> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
>> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
>> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
>> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
>> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
>>
>> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
>> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
>>
>> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion (exact endpoint)

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end 
> point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of 
> them...

The problem is if path should be followed exactly and end point visited exactly 
it need to slow down to a stop. The reason is otherwise infinite acceleration 
would be needed.

The solution is end point accuracy or "P" path blending. I guess end point 
accuracy would make a lot of sense for fast movement with g0.

Reach end point within a sphere feels like a good solution, then for example 
drill is retracted and moved to another point it must be trusted to move 
straight until free of the work piece which obviously need to be located above 
work piece. Most interesting is probably then moving around obstacles.


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

[Todd Zuercher]

On a personal machine the bleeding edge is fine, and I'd probably use it myself 
at home.  But for a factory machine that the drones will use, it is a whole 
different story.

- Original Message -
From: "Gene Heskett" 
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:16:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Ver 2.8

On Tuesday 18 October 2016 08:04:13 andy pugh wrote:

> On 18 October 2016 at 08:40, Greg Bentzinger  
wrote:
> > Just wondering if there is any vague idea as to when V2.8 will go
> > mainstream or if I should just work with 2.7.x for now.
>
> I would build on the current 2.8 dev version. It will save trouble
> converting the config in the future. I have been running various JA
> flavours on all my machines for years with no problems.

I have been too, updated daily. and I haven't gotten any paper cuts from 
it in quite some time. Those I have encountered were usually fixed in 
the next days update, or were PEBKAC.

All my machines are net connected obviously.  With a good router, 
reflashed to DD-WRT, any hack attempts have all been repulsed for years.  
I used to watch the logs, but that got boring, I've better things to 
waste time on.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Todd Zuercher]

Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway different 
from plain G61?

- Original Message -
From: "John Thornton" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64

If you set G64 P  you get something else
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64

If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1

JT

On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
>
> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
>
> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
>
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Robert Ellenberg]

The discrepancy is likely because the behavior changed in 2.7. In 2.6 and
older, both G61 modes were identical. In 2.7, we added the exact path vs
exact stop distinction (since the new TP could do it).

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, 12:15 PM Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There seems to be small disreptancy in manual for at least 2.6:
>   G61 - exact path mode. G61 visits the programmed point exactly, even
> though that means temporarily coming to a complete stop.
>   G61.1 - exact stop mode. Same as G61
>
> G61 do not need to stop although it might happen because otherwise it fail
> to reach exact point. G61.1 come to a complete halt at point.
>
> I say to change the manual would make sense.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
> "Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:
>
> > Yes, a quick test seems to show that for co-linear points G61 doesn't
> stop but G61.1 does.  Maybe the docs should be adjusted to reflect that.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John Thornton" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:56:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> >
> > Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each end
> > point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect descriptions of
> > them...
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in anyway
> different from plain G61?
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "John Thornton" 
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> > >
> > > That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G64 P  you get something else
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.1
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> > >> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to notice
> > >> all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems that non
> > >> rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are overlooked time
> > >> costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this DM-1
> > >> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
> > >>
> > >> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 followed by
> > >> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
> > >>
> > >> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
> > >>
> > >>
> --
> > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> 

[Emc-users] Keystick and xemc

[Erik Friesen]

Does anyone know where the source is for Keystick and xemc?  I don't
see it under linuxcnc-master/src/emc/usr_intf or anywhere else.

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Re: [Emc-users] Keystick and xemc

[andy pugh]

On 18 October 2016 at 20:30, Erik Friesen  wrote:
> Does anyone know where the source is for Keystick and xemc?  I don't
> see it under linuxcnc-master/src/emc/usr_intf or anywhere else.

They were removed from Master, but can still be found in older branches:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=src/emc/usr_intf;h=4a4ba42f4673e94f168b6288024d97d3649baeed;hb=refs/heads/2.6

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Re: [Emc-users] Keystick and xemc

[Erik Friesen]

Is nml close enough to integrate without breaking compile on master?


On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:40 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
> On 18 October 2016 at 20:30, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>> Does anyone know where the source is for Keystick and xemc?  I don't
>> see it under linuxcnc-master/src/emc/usr_intf or anywhere else.
>
> They were removed from Master, but can still be found in older branches:
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=src/emc/usr_intf;h=4a4ba42f4673e94f168b6288024d97d3649baeed;hb=refs/heads/2.6
>
> --
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> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Misc implementation questions

[Rene Hopf]

> On 18 Oct 2016, at 15:21, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 18 October 2016 08:41:41 Erik Friesen wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for this info.
>> 
>> Has anyone implemented spindle load monitoring per tool like the Haas
>> control?  What would this take, adding a line in the tool table plus
>> some tweaks?
> 
> I occasionally put a halmeter on the pid.s.error but haven't attempted to 
> scale that to a % of load output.  Its noisy, so would need some lowpass 
> filtering, or does here.

error is only proportional to the load when your pid has no i term.
an i term will reduce the error to zero, at any load.
To get the load you have to compare the output to the feedback.

>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Stuart Stevenson  
> wrote:
>>> You can find explanations in the documentation
>>> 
>>> 
>>> HOME_OFFSET =0.0 - the amount you
>>> want to table to move from the homed zero position after the index
>>> pulse is found and the encoder position has been set to zero. You
>>> don't necessarily need to know exactly how this works prior to
>>> homing. Just leave zero, home the machine and see what happens.
>>> Then put a value in, home the machine and see what happens.
>>> You can then adjust what value you put in to achieve your desired
>>> home position.
>>> 
>>> HOME_SEARCH_VEL =20.0 - the speed to move the
>>> axis when you are homing (+ or - determine direction)
>>> 
>>> HOME_LATCH_VEL = 20.0   -  the speed to move the
>>> axis after hitting the home (or limit) switch while searching for
>>> the index pulse (again + or - determines direction)
>>> 
>>> HOME_USE_INDEX = NO- YES here tells the
>>> controller to read the encoder index pulse connection. The encoder
>>> board then sets the position to zero upon seeing (finding) the index
>>> pulse.
>>> 
>>> HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO- YES here tells the control
>>> to ignore the axis limit switches while homing. This allow the limit
>>> switch to also be used as a home switch to start the search for the
>>> index pulse.
>>> 
>>> HOME_SEQUENCE = 1   - check the manual for
>>> using this
>>> HOME_IS_SHARED = 1   - check the manual for
>>> using this
>>> 
>>> These parameters are found in the ini file
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:03 AM, andy pugh  
> wrote:
 On 17 October 2016 at 14:40, Erik Friesen  wrote:
> Ok, but what about homing?
 
 I think homing uses the encoder "position" pin, which zeroes when
 index resets.
 
 --
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> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
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> 

Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:27 PM, rayj  wrote:
>
> I suspect I have been using the ends for solid wire on stranded wire!!
> Do you know where I can get a quick education on which is which and how
> to tell the difference?

There's no 'standard', but what I've seen is this: the stranded wire
contacts have a couple of sharp spikes, like a fork: they pierce the
insulation and dig in between the strands of the cable. The solid wire
contacts look like  three spades in a row, sligtly offset like this:
_--_; they go through the insulation and capture the solid core
between the blades. The contacts are pretty small---1-2mm size, so you
have to look very closely.

If you use the stranded wire contacts on a solid wire, it'll just
cut/break the core. If you use the solid contacts on stranded wire,
the clamping force might not be enough to form a gas-tight connection
because the wire is too flexible.

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Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

[Belli Button]

Hey Rob!  Just wanted to say thanks...


-Original Message-
From: Robert Ellenberg [mailto:rwe...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 October 2016 19:29
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion

The discrepancy is likely because the behavior changed in 2.7. In 2.6 and
older, both G61 modes were identical. In 2.7, we added the exact path vs
exact stop distinction (since the new TP could do it).

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016, 12:15 PM Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There seems to be small disreptancy in manual for at least 2.6:
>   G61 - exact path mode. G61 visits the programmed point exactly, even 
> though that means temporarily coming to a complete stop.
>   G61.1 - exact stop mode. Same as G61
>
> G61 do not need to stop although it might happen because otherwise it 
> fail to reach exact point. G61.1 come to a complete halt at point.
>
> I say to change the manual would make sense.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
> "Todd  Zuercher"  wrote:
>
> > Yes, a quick test seems to show that for co-linear points G61 
> > doesn't
> stop but G61.1 does.  Maybe the docs should be adjusted to reflect that.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John Thornton" 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> >  >
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 10:56:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> >
> > Looks like G61.1 stops at every end point and G61 only visits each 
> > end point but may stop if needed. Could also be incorrect 
> > descriptions of them...
> >
> > JT
> >
> > On 10/18/2016 9:17 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > > Stupid question, why do we even have a G61.1 mode?  Is it in 
> > > anyway
> different from plain G61?
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "John Thornton" 
> > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cycle time discussion
> > >
> > > That depends on you, if you do nothing you get G64
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G64 P  you get something else
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g64
> > >
> > > If you set G61 or G61.1 you get something different
> > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g61-g61.
> > > 1
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > > On 10/18/2016 7:48 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> > >> I have been watching my vintage 1996 haas, and have begun to 
> > >> notice all the non cutting times, pauses, etc.  It really seems 
> > >> that non rapid, between rapid, and other slow motions are 
> > >> overlooked time costs.  Note the non machining pauses on this 
> > >> DM-1 
> > >> http://www.haascnc.com/video.asp?mode=demos=c5-XXw0gLxg
> > >>
> > >> I see this on my machine too, rapids don't blend, so G0Z1 
> > >> followed by
> > >> G0Z5 will always have a noticeable pause.
> > >>
> > >> How does lcnc handle rapids in this scenario?
> > >>
> > >>
> --
> 
> > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most 
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> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> --
> 
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> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Steve Traugott  wrote:
> ...and for encoder cables, you may want shielded twisted pair (has a foil
> layer under the jacket).  I've had issues with unshielded twisted pair
> picking up motor EMF and adding extra encoder counts.  ;-)

Very true, but the foil shield is famous for shredding under repeated
bending. Like Seymour Cray used to say, parity bits just cause more
errors, or in other words every problem starts as a solution to
another problem.

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Re: [Emc-users] Misc implementation questions

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 October 2016 16:10:45 Rene Hopf wrote:

> > On 18 Oct 2016, at 15:21, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday 18 October 2016 08:41:41 Erik Friesen wrote:
> >> Thanks for this info.
> >>
> >> Has anyone implemented spindle load monitoring per tool like the
> >> Haas control?  What would this take, adding a line in the tool
> >> table plus some tweaks?
> >
> > I occasionally put a halmeter on the pid.s.error but haven't
> > attempted to scale that to a % of load output.  Its noisy, so would
> > need some lowpass filtering, or does here.
>
> error is only proportional to the load when your pid has no i term.
> an i term will reduce the error to zero, at any load.
> To get the load you have to compare the output to the feedback.
>
And that would be a sum2 with one input gain set at -1?

That sounds doable.  Thanks.

[snip]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[rayj]

I dissected one of the cable ends, and the contacts have 2 points in the 
same plane, so I'm guessing they are for stranded wire.  Thats good news 
for me, since I have typically been shortening and repairing jumpers.  I 
have given the container a close inspection and can't find any thing on 
it that specifies solid/stranded for their application.  Do you know of 
a supplier/manufacturer that clearly indicates the intended application 
for their connectors?

Thanks for educating me on this issue. I was aware of solid/stranded 
issues on larger crimp-on terminals, but hadn't given it any thought for 
these connectors.

Thanks again,

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN

The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, 
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. 
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, 
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men 
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. 
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)

On 10/18/2016 03:40 PM, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:27 PM, rayj  wrote:
>>
>> I suspect I have been using the ends for solid wire on stranded wire!!
>> Do you know where I can get a quick education on which is which and how
>> to tell the difference?
>
> There's no 'standard', but what I've seen is this: the stranded wire
> contacts have a couple of sharp spikes, like a fork: they pierce the
> insulation and dig in between the strands of the cable. The solid wire
> contacts look like  three spades in a row, sligtly offset like this:
> _--_; they go through the insulation and capture the solid core
> between the blades. The contacts are pretty small---1-2mm size, so you
> have to look very closely.
>
> If you use the stranded wire contacts on a solid wire, it'll just
> cut/break the core. If you use the solid contacts on stranded wire,
> the clamping force might not be enough to form a gas-tight connection
> because the wire is too flexible.
>
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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