Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Yes. And generally (old school US machine wiring) the hot (fused) leg for 120 VAC control wiring is red and the neutral is white, especially if there are higher voltages in the same cabinet (like 480). Then red is 120 AC control, white is Neutral, black is 240 or 480 AC power, Blue is DC

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On Friday 01 January 2016 11:23:35 Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: > > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 20:51:08 -0500 > > From: Gene Heskett > > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > > To:

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

This is one of those cases where electrical practices on opposite sides of oceans differ significantly. On Fri, Jan 1, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/01/2016 05:47 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > > That's done all of the time. In fact it is part of the NEC (National > > Electric

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On Friday 01 January 2016 10:58:37 linden wrote: > I just put a gob as far aft as i can get (calling the end where your > cables come out forward) It is just like sticking things together with > a wad of gum if you are using an elcheepo glue gut it dose not get hot > enough to wick in between any

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 07:25 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: >> Machine wiring is different in that you can have scenarios where >> references are moved, especially in a 2-phase system where you are not >> using the neutral, which is the scenario we have here. > My understanding is, and I could be wrong, that

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

Mark, The short answer is replacing the limit/home switch wiring with shielded cable and grounding it to one place was the difference in making the sserial errors go away. Unless you need 2.7 back up to 2.6 till you get rid of the sserial errors. JT On 1/1/2016 4:28 PM, Mark Johnsen wrote: >

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Isn't it commonly called Split Phase in North America? Draw 15A on each side of the 120-0-120 VAC circuit and measure that with a clamp on ammeter and you get 15A on each leg. Put the clamp on meter on the white wire (the neutral return) and you get 0A. In effect the two phases are 180

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Thank you. Well said. John Dammeyer > -Original Message- > From: John Kasunich [mailto:jmkasun...@fastmail.fm] > Sent: January-01-16 4:41 PM > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP ... > > Three phase or single phase doesn't matter. When a

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Fri, Jan 1, 2016, at 08:18 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/02/2016 01:41 AM, John Kasunich wrote: > > This is one of those cases where electrical practices on opposite > > sides of oceans differ significantly. > > Yes, there are some significant differences. That has become obvious. > >

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On 1/1/2016 4:29 PM, Jack Coats wrote: > Back when I received computers via fedex with multiple 'boards' in > them, the ones that did the best were ones where after each board was > inserted, a bead of pure silicon caulk (the clear kind) was put along > the top of the connector so it would contact

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

On 01/02/2016 12:27 AM, andy pugh wrote: >>> I'm assuming using a scope is the right way to do it? >> Yes and no. It depends on what you are tracking and how it is induced. > Also, there is no way to detect an occasional microsecond spike > without recording and analysing unfeasible quantities of

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/02/2016 01:41 AM, John Kasunich wrote: > This is one of those cases where electrical practices on opposite > sides of oceans differ significantly. Yes, there are some significant differences. That has become obvious. [snip] > Three phase or single phase doesn't matter. When a transformer

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP - where to connect ground

On 01/01/2016 10:28 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > Short explanation: > You must ensure that a grounding connection does not carry current and > is located at such a point where a symmetric coupling can be achieved. > > A bit longer explanation: [snip] Just one comment on the explanation... It is

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

John, Thanks for the direction, I'll look at that for the limits. My machine is the _one_ switch type for limits on both ends without a home. I didn't setup a home, but after using the mill for the last year, probably a good idea. I have been running 2.6.11 on a different harddrive, so good

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Friday 01 January 2016 12:03:23 John Thornton wrote: > I just looked at the control transformer and L1 and L2 (240v side are > fused with type CC fuses and X1 only on the 120v side is fused with a > slo-blow fuse. So I assume they intended X2 to be the "neutral". > > JT > An excellent

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

Back when I received computers via fedex with multiple 'boards' in them, the ones that did the best were ones where after each board was inserted, a bead of pure silicon caulk (the clear kind) was put along the top of the connector so it would contact both the connector and the board. It stayed

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP - where to connect ground

On Friday 01 January 2016 18:04:34 Ben Potter wrote: > > From: Bertho Stultiens [mailto:ber...@vagrearg.org] > > A bit longer explanation: > > See attached image. Outputs of the step-down transformer A and B are > > capacitively coupled to L1 and L2 through four parasitic capacitors. > > >

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 27 December 2015 at 00:32, John Kasunich wrote: > Each house has a ground rod. The neutral from the transformer, the > house ground rod, a connection from the house cold water plumbing (if > copper), the neutrals from all the receptacles, and the ground wires from >

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

My only suggestion is to ensure the wire you have is stranded, not solid. Stranded will be 'softer' and deal better with the bending needed for use in drag-chain use. Solid core is better for infrastructure use (putting in walls), stranded is found in 'patch cables' and used in wiring closets to

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

On Friday 01 January 2016 18:33:32 Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/02/2016 12:27 AM, andy pugh wrote: > >>> I'm assuming using a scope is the right way to do it? > >> > >> Yes and no. It depends on what you are tracking and how it is > >> induced. > > > > Also, there is no way to detect an

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Excellent references on what actually works, and stays shipped is available from any of the cnc machine tool manufacturers maintenance manuals. My reference that I used to solve my 8 year long search for intermittent noise problem is from Morbidelli, their U-15 machine (A woodworking oriented

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP - where to connect ground

On 01/01/2016 08:24 PM, Rafael wrote: >> There are a lot of good reasons to tie one leg the transformer to ground >> besides to establish the safety ground and neutral as is common on the US. >> Intermittent faults to ground, with an ungrounded system, can cause the >> secondary of the transformer

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > On 1 January 2016 at 16:16, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > SSerial is differential RS-422 at 2.5 MBits/sec and requires ~100 Ohm > > differential cable cable impedance. This usually means twisted pairs > > are required for TX and RX

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/02/2016 12:24 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > this is a single phase system delivering 240+ volts AC > to the two ends of a single core transformers primary winding. Well, yes and no. It depends on what you are looking at. The point in normal AC systems is that your ground potential is at or

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP - where to connect ground

> From: Bertho Stultiens [mailto:ber...@vagrearg.org] > A bit longer explanation: > See attached image. Outputs of the step-down transformer A and B are capacitively coupled to L1 and L2 through four parasitic capacitors. > Connecting A to ground when C1A not equal C2A or connecting B to ground

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

If you have limit switches set them up to home also, saves time when firing up as last offsets are still good. Also the soft limits work when you home. Got a photo of the el cabinet? JT On 1/1/2016 5:01 PM, Mark Johnsen wrote: > John, > > Thanks for the direction, I'll look at that for the

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

On 1 January 2016 at 23:21, Bertho Stultiens wrote: >> I'm assuming using a scope is the right way to do it? > > Yes and no. It depends on what you are tracking and how it is induced. Also, there is no way to detect an occasional microsecond spike without recording and

[Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

Bertho, Thanks for the note. I replied inline below. -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 00:21:12 +0100 > From: Bertho Stultiens > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" >

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > On 1 January 2016 at 23:21, Bertho Stultiens wrote: >>> I'm assuming using a scope is the right way to do it? >> Yes and no. It depends on what you are tracking and how it is induced. >Also, there is no way to detect an

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/02/2016 01:47 AM, John Kasunich wrote: > This is ENTIRELY a function of where you are and what language you > speak. (English and American are not the same language :-) Yes, and neither is my native language... I'm trying, so confusion is probably pre-programmed for some "features" and

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Friday 01 January 2016 12:29:16 Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/01/2016 05:47 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > > That's done all of the time. In fact it is part of the NEC > > (National Electric Code) that is followed (for the most part) in the > > US. Pretty much every house in the US is wired like

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

> From: Mark Johnsen [mailto:m...@ijohnsen.com] > John, > Thanks for the direction, I'll look at that for the limits. My machine is the _one_ switch type for limits on both ends without a home. I didn't setup a home, but after using the mill for the last year, probably a good idea. > I have

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Friday 01 January 2016 12:34:37 Jon Elson wrote: > On 01/01/2016 06:02 AM, John Thornton wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > > > So tie say the 48v side to ground to create the neutral? I > > attached the drawing of what I have so far on the VFD side. > > With power off, use an Ohmmeter to verify the

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 08:13 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > (Reposted with link to pdf fixed) > Here's what I did for my SouthBend Lathe. Not run with CNC but with my > Electronic Lead Screw. > http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/SouthBendPower.pdf The connection from the secondary to ground (chassis)

[Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

I have a very similar setup to John Thornton and same noise issue w/ 2.7.3: Mesa 5i25/7i77 Transformer 120vac:80Vac, rectified w/ large cap to run 3-axes West Amp servo's (Not sure John has this) GS2 Automation direct 3hp drive, powered by separate 240Vac single phase input. Also, I use his

Re: [Emc-users] Measuring Noise - Oscilloscope

On 01/01/2016 11:28 PM, Mark Johnsen wrote: > Anyway, I've been reading all the posts here and on the IRC as I've been > away for X-mas Holiday and I think I would like to be able to measure the > noise to be able to determine if my changes make an effect. I've > unsuccessfully dealt w/ noise

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Fri, Jan 1, 2016, at 04:44 PM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/01/2016 07:25 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: > >> Machine wiring is different in that you can have scenarios where > >> references are moved, especially in a 2-phase system where you are not > >> using the neutral, which is the scenario

[Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

My lathe build is going to have a smart-serial device mounted in the lathe apron. This means that I need a CAT5 cable in the drag-chain, and also a 24V supply for the proximity sensors. Finding oil/coolant resistant CAT5 rated for drag-chain use is likely to be a challenge. I have lots of this

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

Andy, this idea is good and saves space, but has limitations as to the bus speed. Siemens built their desk top PCs (in fact, there were no others) like this in the 1990ies and dropped it as processing speed rose rapidly in these days. The L-shaped connector board had too much impedance for the

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On 1 January 2016 at 01:51, Gene Heskett wrote: > Ideas, anybody? Or do I have to make a x-crossed-brace to go across the > top of the pci sockets? Are there any standoffs / tapped holes on the motherboard that you can get a bracket to? It seems to me to be a problem with

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On 1 January 2016 at 11:29, Peter Blodow wrote: > Andy, this idea is good and saves space, but has limitations as to the > bus speed. Siemens built their desk top PCs (in fact, there were no > others) like this in the 1990ies and dropped it as processing speed rose > rapidly in

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Hi Gene, The frame is most solidly grounded. I'll do the tests in a bit. Keep in mind that I have a 240v to 120v step down transformer to supply the 120v not a normal house circuit. Again an effort to kill the noise. Which by the way I'm running 2.7 now after changing the wires on the

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

> On 01 Jan 2016, at 12:23, andy pugh wrote: > > My lathe build is going to have a smart-serial device mounted in the > lathe apron. This means that I need a CAT5 cable in the drag-chain, > and also a 24V supply for the proximity sensors. > Finding oil/coolant resistant CAT5

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On 01/01/2016 12:23 PM, andy pugh wrote: > Is there any reason to think that the 2x3 screened pairs in that cable > will be unsuitable for transporting smart-serial data The bandwidth of rs232 style serial connections is so low that you will not see any problems with twisted pairs. I assume that

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On Friday 01 January 2016 06:08:31 andy pugh wrote: > On 1 January 2016 at 01:51, Gene Heskett wrote: > > Ideas, anybody? Or do I have to make a x-crossed-brace to go across > > the top of the pci sockets? > > Are there any standoffs / tapped holes on the motherboard that you

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 12/31/2015 10:24 PM, John Thornton wrote: > I went and checked the control transformer and one side is 48v to ground > and the other side is 79v to ground. I guess I was confused by that. I did a quick calculation and if your protective ground has a voltage with a phase shift of about 62

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

I'll get a photo of what I did on my CHNC which has the motherboard just mounted to a panel... JT On 12/31/2015 7:51 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > I tried to hook up my soft start circuit tonight, but when I had it wired > in, the spindle didn't run. Checking dmesg, the card did not sign in > like

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On Friday 01 January 2016 06:23:06 andy pugh wrote: > My lathe build is going to have a smart-serial device mounted in the > lathe apron. This means that I need a CAT5 cable in the drag-chain, > and also a 24V supply for the proximity sensors. > Finding oil/coolant resistant CAT5 rated for

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

the photo http://gnipsel.com/images/chnc/CHCN-5i20.jpg On 1/1/2016 6:05 AM, John Thornton wrote: > I'll get a photo of what I did on my CHNC which has the motherboard just > mounted to a panel... > > JT > > On 12/31/2015 7:51 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: >> I tried to hook up my soft start circuit

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Ground to chassis is 0.01 ohm. JT On 1/1/2016 7:42 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > There is one remaining measurement that you should do: Measure the DC > resistance between the chassis and the protective ground of the > wall-outlet. That should be close to zero. Then, assuming that the >

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

I just put a gob as far aft as i can get (calling the end where your cables come out forward) It is just like sticking things together with a wad of gum if you are using an elcheepo glue gut it dose not get hot enough to wick in between any thing. Its non conductive the clear sticks seem to

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Hi Jon, So tie say the 48v side to ground to create the neutral? I attached the drawing of what I have so far on the VFD side. Happy New year to you and I hope you stayed dry during the recent monsoon we got. JT On 12/31/2015 7:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote: On 12/31/2015 03:24 PM, John

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On 1 January 2016 at 12:05, John Thornton wrote: > I'll get a photo of what I did on my CHNC which has the motherboard just > mounted to a panel... That's what I have. The question is how to stop the PCI card from falling out of the motherboard. -- atp If you can't fix it,

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 01:02 PM, John Thornton wrote: > So tie say the 48v side to ground to create the neutral? I attached the > drawing of what I have so far on the VFD side. No, then you just short a capacitive path to ground. If you have no neutral, then you do not have it. All voltages you measure

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Yes, Anytime you have a 120 volt source for computer, misc power etc, you need to declare one side of the 120 vac winding the neutral (white wire) and tie that terminal to the machine frame. It similar to what is required at the service entrance of your house. The neutral is always tied to

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

Here's what I did for my SouthBend Lathe. Not run with CNC but with my Electronic Lead Screw. http://www.autoartisans.com/lathe/SouthBendPower.pdf http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/ControlBox.jpg http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/ControlBoxInside.jpg The System Relay is wired as a latching

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

(Reposted with link to pdf fixed) Here's what I did for my SouthBend Lathe. Not run with CNC but with my Electronic Lead Screw. http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/SouthBendPower.pdf http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/ControlBox.jpg http://www.autoartisans.com/Lathe/ControlBoxInside.jpg The

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 11:37 AM, andy pugh wrote: > On 1 January 2016 at 17:29, Bertho Stultiens wrote: >> The reason for /not/ connecting the ground on a secondary winding is to >> prevent a capacitively coupled ground path. > Another reason is that if you connect either secondary

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 08:47 AM, Dave Cole wrote: > On 1/1/2016 11:26 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: >> On 01/01/2016 05:13 PM, Dave Cole wrote: >>> Anytime you have a 120 volt source for computer, misc power etc, you >>> need to declare one side of the 120 vac winding the neutral (white wire) >>> and tie

Re: [Emc-users] To Peter C Wallace

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015, Gene Heskett wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 20:51:08 -0500 > From: Gene Heskett > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" > Subject:

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On 01/01/2016 05:16 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: >> The bandwidth of rs232 style serial connections is so low that you will >> not see any problems with twisted pairs. I assume that you are not >> connecting half a kilometer of cable with a speed higher than 115k2 baud >> (or you may run into

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 1/1/2016 11:26 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > On 01/01/2016 05:13 PM, Dave Cole wrote: >> Anytime you have a 120 volt source for computer, misc power etc, you >> need to declare one side of the 120 vac winding the neutral (white wire) >> and tie that terminal to the machine frame. >> It similar

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On 1 January 2016 at 16:16, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > SSerial is differential RS-422 at 2.5 MBits/sec and requires ~100 Ohm > differential cable cable impedance. This usually means twisted pairs > are required for TX and RX (the 5V/GND power connections are not critical) The

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

I just looked at the control transformer and L1 and L2 (240v side are fused with type CC fuses and X1 only on the 120v side is fused with a slo-blow fuse. So I assume they intended X2 to be the "neutral". JT On 1/1/2016 10:15 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 01 January 2016 07:00:31 John

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, andy pugh wrote: > Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 16:59:12 + > From: andy pugh > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > Subject: Re:

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 05:47 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > That's done all of the time. In fact it is part of the NEC (National > Electric Code) that is followed (for the most part) in the US. > Pretty much every house in the US is wired like that. (I'm not making > this stuff up. :-) ) I agree with the

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 1 January 2016 at 17:29, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > The reason for /not/ connecting the ground on a secondary winding is to > prevent a capacitively coupled ground path. Another reason is that if you connect either secondary winding end to ground using body parts then

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On Friday 01 January 2016 07:00:31 John Thornton wrote: > Hi Gene, > > The frame is most solidly grounded. I'll do the tests in a bit. Keep > in mind that I have a 240v to 120v step down transformer to supply the > 120v not a normal house circuit. Again an effort to kill the noise. > Which by the

Re: [Emc-users] Smart-Serial cabling

On Fri, 1 Jan 2016, Bertho Stultiens wrote: > Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 14:55:47 +0100 > From: Bertho Stultiens > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" >

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 05:13 PM, Dave Cole wrote: > Anytime you have a 120 volt source for computer, misc power etc, you > need to declare one side of the 120 vac winding the neutral (white wire) > and tie that terminal to the machine frame. > It similar to what is required at the service entrance of

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 06:02 AM, John Thornton wrote: > Hi Jon, > > So tie say the 48v side to ground to create the neutral? I > attached the drawing of what I have so far on the VFD side. > With power off, use an Ohmmeter to verify the secondary is isolated from the frame. If so, tie either end to

Re: [Emc-users] Rewiring the BP

On 01/01/2016 09:29 AM, Bertho Stultiens wrote: ... snip > Machine wiring is different in that you can have scenarios where > references are moved, especially in a 2-phase system where you are not > using the neutral, which is the scenario we have here. ... snip My understanding is, and I could