[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170803

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-GM-noise-Buick-e-SUV-w-Bolt-EV-drivetrain-gt-e-Deuce-amp-1-4-e-225-td4687543.html
EVLN: (GM noise) Buick e-SUV w/ Bolt EV drivetrain(?) > e-Deuce& 1/4
(e-225)?
All-electric Buick small SUV to be based on Bolt EV: report
The Chevrolet Bolt EV, initially intended to be adapted from the
next-generation Chevy Sonic subcompact, ended up with unique underpinnings
designed solely ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Mo-s-Tesla-X-Render-You-ve-Always-Dreamed-Of-gt-Dakar-Rally-duty-ready-td4687542.html
EVLN: Mo's Tesla-X Render You’ve Always Dreamed Of> Dakar Rally duty ready
This Lifted Tesla Model X Render Is The Uber Electric SUV You've ...
(Maybe) ... During our email exchange, Mo Aoun confirmed his dream is to ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Li-ion-cells-from-waste-stream-glass-bottles-gt-Silicon-dioxide-nanoparticle-anodes-td4687541.html
EVLN: Li-ion cells from waste-stream glass bottles> Silicon dioxide
nanoparticle anodes
Making batteries from waste glass bottles ... excellent electrochemical
performance with a capacity of ~1420 mAh/g at C/2 rate after 400 cycles ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Wakker-s-nl-2-au-EV-road-trip-is-still-touring-Myanmar-promoting-sustainability-r-200km-td4687540.html
Wakker's nl-2-au EV road trip is still touring Myanmar promoting
sustainability r:200km
Plugged in, charged up, ready to roam
A passionate convert to the cause of environmental sustainability has driven
through Myanmar in an electric car on a journey that will take him across
three ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Smog-and-mirrors-gt-VW-public-EVSE-for-the-underserved-poor-snubs-h2-td4687539.html
Smog and mirrors> VW public EVSE for the underserved-poor, snubs h2
EV charging network gets $800 million spark from VW
SACRAMENTO >> In a decision with lasting implications for the growth of
electric vehicles, state regulators on Thursday approved Volkswagen's plan
to invest ...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20170803-tp4687544.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Dan Baker via EV]

Hello all,

Not sure if anyone has seen the article below:

In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
cut greenhouse gas emissions.

https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expensive-and-ineffective


Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil funded
FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.  I
see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
incentive with this type of media :-(

Cheers
Dan
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/34061694/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Russ via EV]

I note that the publication focuses on wealth and nothing about health anywhere 
in the article. The present range of EV's are particularly suited to the 
reduction of city pollution and it will take more than the death of ICE's to 
reduce CO2 reduction. One step at a time! 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Dan Baker via EV  
Date: 03/08/2017  1:54 pm  (GMT+00:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 Subject: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and 
ineffective? 
Hello all,

Not sure if anyone has seen the article below:

In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
cut greenhouse gas emissions.

https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expensive-and-ineffective


Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil funded
FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.  I
see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
incentive with this type of media :-(

Cheers
Dan
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/34061694/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/2019e1b4/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Roger Stockton via EV]

Dan Baker wrote:

> Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil
> funded
> FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
> rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
> well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
> charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.  I
> see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
> quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
> incentive with this type of media :-(

The article questions the effectiveness of EV subsidies as a means of reducing 
carbon emissions, which I can't really comment on (other than to say that I'm 
not sure that carbon trading (the approach favoured by the authors) does 
*anything* to ~reduce~ carbon emissions: all it offers is a mechanism by which 
a country may emit more CO2 than it would otherwise be allowed by purchasing 
'credits' to emit CO2 from a country that is emitting less than it is allowed).

However, it does appear to me that EV subsidies are a ~very~ effective way to 
increase EV adoption.  I'm in Vancouver, and while the BC subsidies are not as 
generous as those in ON and PQ, EVs (mostly Leafs and Tesla, though iMiev, 
Smart ED, Bolt, Kia Soul EV, and even the odd Focus EV can be seen) are quite a 
common sight here.  The incentives also encourage purchase of PHEVs, so Chevy 
Volts are also not an uncommon sight.

Cheers,

Roger.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

This appears to be another case of an author or editor who decides in 
advance what outcome he (or the corporate sponsor) desires, and then tailors 
the data and analysis to reach that conclusion.

The tl;dr: money talks.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Lee Hart via EV]

Dan Baker via EV wrote:

In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
cut greenhouse gas emissions.

https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expensive-and-ineffective

Would anyone care to comment on this?


There really isn't any solid information at that link. There are no facts or 
figures, or verifiable data. It reads like an advertiser hyping up their product 
without giving you any solid information on how it actually works or compares to 
other products.


I would want to know who funded this organization, and this study. We've seen 
too many examples of persuasive, well-written "hit" pieces that have not a shred 
of facts, financed by the oil or auto industries.


--
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
-- Dalai Lama
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Dan Baker via EV]

From their site it's hard to tell where there funding comes from, they do
list their funding as 27% from businesses and 70% from "foundations".  One
of their Directors bios shows he has direct ties to big oil.  Even more, I
found they published yet another article against EVs:

Consumers will pay the price for electric vehicle quotas:

"Montreal, July 25, 2017 – The electric car sales quotas imposed on
manufacturers by the Quebec government will eventually increase the
marginal cost of conventional vehicles by $1,100, reveals a Viewpoint
published today by the MEI. Consumers will end up paying this “tax” through
higher car prices."

http://www.iedm.org/72410-consumers-will-pay-price-electric-vehicle-quotas

Sounds like the province of Quebec is enforcing minimum EV sales on
manufacturers, similar to California.  They predict this will only cause
oil powered vehicle's prices to increase.  I take it the end result they
predict isn't true for California?


On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Lee Hart  wrote:

> Dan Baker via EV wrote:
>
>> In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
>> provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
>> cut greenhouse gas emissions.
>>
>> https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expens
>> ive-and-ineffective
>>
>> Would anyone care to comment on this?
>>
>
> There really isn't any solid information at that link. There are no facts
> or figures, or verifiable data. It reads like an advertiser hyping up their
> product without giving you any solid information on how it actually works
> or compares to other products.
>
> I would want to know who funded this organization, and this study. We've
> seen too many examples of persuasive, well-written "hit" pieces that have
> not a shred of facts, financed by the oil or auto industries.
>
> --
> Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
> -- Dalai Lama
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/9166dfc1/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Lawrence Harris via EV]

The EPA 
(https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-calculator-calculations-and-references
 
<https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-calculator-calculations-and-references>)
 calculates 4.73 metric tons  CO2/vehicle/year for a passenger car, so 47.3 
over 10 years due to it’s operation vs their number of 37.4; a difference of 10 
tons.  Manufacture is probably a lost leader since the amounts of CO2 would be 
roughly equivalent and variable in any event.  I also question the equivalence 
of the carbon markets as that more or less just shifts carbon production from 
one place to another and does not directly reduce it.

Was this published in any public media?  The reference is to their web site and 
so it’s just an opportunity piece looking for an outlet.

Regards,
Lawrence Harris




> On Aug 3, 2017, at 05:54, Dan Baker via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Not sure if anyone has seen the article below:
> 
> In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
> provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
> cut greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expensive-and-ineffective
> 
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil funded
> FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
> rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
> well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
> charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.  I
> see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
> quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
> incentive with this type of media :-(
> 
> Cheers
> Dan
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/34061694/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/5867445b/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Dan Baker via EV]

Hey Lawrence

I agree your math is more correct.  I didn't see the article originally
when it came out but if you google the title of this thread you will see
lots of media outlets ran with it, mostly Canadian but some American ones
as well.  I saw it this morning when a local paper (metro news) ran an
article about more fast chargers coming to our province and they mentioned
the report.



On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Lawrence Harris via EV 
wrote:

> The EPA (https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-
> equivalencies-calculator-calculations-and-references <
> https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-calculator-
> calculations-and-references>) calculates 4.73 metric tons
> CO2/vehicle/year for a passenger car, so 47.3 over 10 years due to it’s
> operation vs their number of 37.4; a difference of 10 tons.  Manufacture is
> probably a lost leader since the amounts of CO2 would be roughly equivalent
> and variable in any event.  I also question the equivalence of the carbon
> markets as that more or less just shifts carbon production from one place
> to another and does not directly reduce it.
>
> Was this published in any public media?  The reference is to their web
> site and so it’s just an opportunity piece looking for an outlet.
>
> Regards,
> Lawrence Harris
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2017, at 05:54, Dan Baker via EV  wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Not sure if anyone has seen the article below:
> >
> > In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
> > provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
> > cut greenhouse gas emissions.
> >
> > https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-
> expensive-and-ineffective
> >
> >
> > Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil
> funded
> > FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
> > rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
> > well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
> > charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.
> I
> > see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
> > quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
> > incentive with this type of media :-(
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dan
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
> attachments/20170803/34061694/attachment.htm>
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
> >
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/
> attachments/20170803/5867445b/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/374b8f5e/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I'll try to read the article later, but if you are talking about "city 
pollution" as the health-based pollution of ozone, particulates, etc. - then 
you are not referring to cutting greenhouse gases, per the OP. As a class, GHGs 
do not have acute health effects. 

That being said, reduction of  "city" pollutants can have a co-benefit of 
reducing GHGs, as some of them are also GHGs.

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when people talk about health and GHGs.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Russ via EV  wrote:
> 
> I note that the publication focuses on wealth and nothing about health 
> anywhere in the article. The present range of EV's are particularly suited to 
> the reduction of city pollution and it will take more than the death of ICE's 
> to reduce CO2 reduction. One step at a time! 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>  Original message From: Dan Baker via EV  
> Date: 03/08/2017  1:54 pm  (GMT+00:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>  Subject: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and 
> ineffective? 
> Hello all,
> 
> Not sure if anyone has seen the article below:
> 
> In a report released in June, the Montreal Economic Institute concluded
> provincial subsidies were the most expensive, least effective way to help
> cut greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> https://www.iedm.org/71213-electric-vehicle-subsidies-expensive-and-ineffective
> 
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on this?  Agree or disagree?  Is it oil funded
> FUD? I live in Nova Scotia, Canada, one of the have-not provinces for EV
> rebates.  I can affirm that without rebates EV car sales here are pretty
> well nonexistent, most dealers here carry very little EV stock and the
> charging infrastructure is well behind provinces that do offer rebates.  I
> see other  media outlets and even local environmental groups regularly
> quoting this article too.  Sounds like my province will never get an
> incentive with this type of media :-(
> 
> Cheers
> Dan
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/34061694/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170803/2019e1b4/attachment.htm>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> 
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] replacement or removal of suspected bad 40Ah prismatic LiFePO4 battery

[mnevans via EV]

I'm new to this discussion list, so I ask your patience: my understanding of
EV systems and Li-ion batteries is limited.

The question is: replace a bad battery in a pack of 19, or make the pack 2
batteries smaller and suffer an unknown loss of voltage and range?

Background:
  
I think I have a bad battery in one of 19 batteries that is in the second
bank of a 4 bank x 19 CALB CA40FI battery pack.  The battery pack is used in
a 10KW battery that is part of a Plug-In Supply conversion of a 2004 Prius
to a plug-in Prius.  Robb Protheroe installed the system in late 2014, and
it has seen about 10K miles, maybe 60% of that in all electric mode, about
900 partial or full charge cycles.  

The evidence that the battery is bad is an incomplete loop circuit.  I found
that the battery management board atop the suspect battery was not powered,
and moving that BMS board to another battery adjacent powered it.The
suspect battery was at 2.67V.  The others adjacent are at 3.0V.  Originally
they were all balanced at 3.26-3.27V. 

Robb Protheroe at Plug-In Supply suggested replacing the battery with a new
one.  Unfortunately CALB no longer makes this 40Ah battery, but the Sinopoly
or Winston 40Ah prismatic cells are nearly the same dimensions and
specifications.  It looks like I can get a replacement for about USD$60 
including shipping to me in Maryland USA, using www.ev-power.eu (a US
supplier wanted $42 shipping for a $55 cell).  

The other option is to remove the bad battery and the one adjacent, and
carry on with a lower voltage pack.  Robb is unsure whether the range loss
would be proportional (7%, I can live with that), or more, due to "voltage
sag" and age of cells.  He suggested I ask you, so here I am.

Questions:

1. Would you recommend replacing or removing batteries from my pack?

2. If removing, what is your guess on loss of range due to lower pack V,
voltage sag?

3. If replacing, do you expect the new cell to assume the lifetime of the
rest of the batteries in the pack, as others have written on this listserv?

So far I am thinking to try removing, see how the range is affected by
testing on a known route that is longer than the original hybrid range with
this pack installed.  If unacceptably worse, add back the replacement cell. 
If not, carry on with the slightly smaller battery pack.  But I would be
grateful for the wisdom of the list.

Thank you in advance for your help,
Mike



--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/replacement-or-removal-of-suspected-bad-40Ah-prismatic-LiFePO4-battery-tp4687552.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] replacement or removal of suspected bad 40Ah prismatic LiFePO4 battery

[Jay Summet via EV]

For $60, I'd just replace it.  I don't know anything about the "Plug-In 
Supply" conversion system, or how a lower voltage will affect anything 
else in the car.


The replacement cell will (presumably) have more capacity than your 
original ones, but assuming that the current loop cuts out the charger 
when the smallest capacity cell is "full" this shouldn't pose a problem, 
you just won't be taking full advantage of it's newer/larger capacity.


Jay

On 08/03/2017 04:34 PM, mnevans via EV wrote:

I'm new to this discussion list, so I ask your patience: my understanding of
EV systems and Li-ion batteries is limited.

The question is: replace a bad battery in a pack of 19, or make the pack 2
batteries smaller and suffer an unknown loss of voltage and range?

Background:
   
I think I have a bad battery in one of 19 batteries that is in the second

bank of a 4 bank x 19 CALB CA40FI battery pack.  The battery pack is used in
a 10KW battery that is part of a Plug-In Supply conversion of a 2004 Prius
to a plug-in Prius.  Robb Protheroe installed the system in late 2014, and
it has seen about 10K miles, maybe 60% of that in all electric mode, about
900 partial or full charge cycles.

The evidence that the battery is bad is an incomplete loop circuit.  I found
that the battery management board atop the suspect battery was not powered,
and moving that BMS board to another battery adjacent powered it.The
suspect battery was at 2.67V.  The others adjacent are at 3.0V.  Originally
they were all balanced at 3.26-3.27V.

Robb Protheroe at Plug-In Supply suggested replacing the battery with a new
one.  Unfortunately CALB no longer makes this 40Ah battery, but the Sinopoly
or Winston 40Ah prismatic cells are nearly the same dimensions and
specifications.  It looks like I can get a replacement for about USD$60
including shipping to me in Maryland USA, using www.ev-power.eu (a US
supplier wanted $42 shipping for a $55 cell).

The other option is to remove the bad battery and the one adjacent, and
carry on with a lower voltage pack.  Robb is unsure whether the range loss
would be proportional (7%, I can live with that), or more, due to "voltage
sag" and age of cells.  He suggested I ask you, so here I am.

Questions:

1. Would you recommend replacing or removing batteries from my pack?

2. If removing, what is your guess on loss of range due to lower pack V,
voltage sag?

3. If replacing, do you expect the new cell to assume the lifetime of the
rest of the batteries in the pack, as others have written on this listserv?

So far I am thinking to try removing, see how the range is affected by
testing on a known route that is longer than the original hybrid range with
this pack installed.  If unacceptably worse, add back the replacement cell.
If not, carry on with the slightly smaller battery pack.  But I would be
grateful for the wisdom of the list.

Thank you in advance for your help,
Mike



--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/replacement-or-removal-of-suspected-bad-40Ah-prismatic-LiFePO4-battery-tp4687552.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] replacement or removal of suspected bad 40Ah prismatic LiFePO4 battery

[Alan Arrison via EV]

3.00V is considered dead. 2.67V is really dead. Your pack is only as 
good as the weakest (lowest capacity) cell.

Unfortunately we don't know anything about the BMS system.
I would guess that the electronics consists of a DC to DC converter. 
Either the converter (or the BMS) may not work properly (or at all) with 
a lower voltage pack.
I would replace the cell and make sure there aren't any other duds in 
the pack.


Al




Questions:

1. Would you recommend replacing or removing batteries from my pack?

2. If removing, what is your guess on loss of range due to lower pack V,
voltage sag?

3. If replacing, do you expect the new cell to assume the lifetime of the
rest of the batteries in the pack, as others have written on this listserv?

So far I am thinking to try removing, see how the range is affected by
testing on a known route that is longer than the original hybrid range with
this pack installed.  If unacceptably worse, add back the replacement cell.
If not, carry on with the slightly smaller battery pack.  But I would be
grateful for the wisdom of the list.

Thank you in advance for your help,
Mike



--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/replacement-or-removal-of-suspected-bad-40Ah-prismatic-LiFePO4-battery-tp4687552.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)




___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] replacement or removal of suspected bad 40Ah prismatic LiFePO4 battery

[Rod Hower via EV]

Should have bought a Volt!  The 2013-2014 can be purchased for 11-13K$  My 2014 
had 51k miles and I bought it for 11.8K.I'm not trying to be a jerk for 
mentioning this and understand your technical issues, I still own 2 2000 Honda 
Insight's that I needto figure out what I should do, sell or convert.  I plan 
on converting one of them, but the Chevy Volt is a luxury vehicle that 
drivesbetter than any car I've owned.  I drive primarily on electric only, but 
the gas backup is nice.  I plan on converting one of the Insights as a 
projectand I love those cars, but the ride is like a rickshaw compared to the 
Volt.
 

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 10:22 PM, Jay Summet via EV  
wrote:
 

 For $60, I'd just replace it.  I don't know anything about the "Plug-In 
Supply" conversion system, or how a lower voltage will affect anything 
else in the car.

The replacement cell will (presumably) have more capacity than your 
original ones, but assuming that the current loop cuts out the charger 
when the smallest capacity cell is "full" this shouldn't pose a problem, 
you just won't be taking full advantage of it's newer/larger capacity.

Jay

On 08/03/2017 04:34 PM, mnevans via EV wrote:
> I'm new to this discussion list, so I ask your patience: my understanding of
> EV systems and Li-ion batteries is limited.
> 
> The question is: replace a bad battery in a pack of 19, or make the pack 2
> batteries smaller and suffer an unknown loss of voltage and range?
> 
> Background:
>    
> I think I have a bad battery in one of 19 batteries that is in the second
> bank of a 4 bank x 19 CALB CA40FI battery pack.  The battery pack is used in
> a 10KW battery that is part of a Plug-In Supply conversion of a 2004 Prius
> to a plug-in Prius.  Robb Protheroe installed the system in late 2014, and
> it has seen about 10K miles, maybe 60% of that in all electric mode, about
> 900 partial or full charge cycles.
> 
> The evidence that the battery is bad is an incomplete loop circuit.  I found
> that the battery management board atop the suspect battery was not powered,
> and moving that BMS board to another battery adjacent powered it.    The
> suspect battery was at 2.67V.  The others adjacent are at 3.0V.  Originally
> they were all balanced at 3.26-3.27V.
> 
> Robb Protheroe at Plug-In Supply suggested replacing the battery with a new
> one.  Unfortunately CALB no longer makes this 40Ah battery, but the Sinopoly
> or Winston 40Ah prismatic cells are nearly the same dimensions and
> specifications.  It looks like I can get a replacement for about USD$60
> including shipping to me in Maryland USA, using www.ev-power.eu (a US
> supplier wanted $42 shipping for a $55 cell).
> 
> The other option is to remove the bad battery and the one adjacent, and
> carry on with a lower voltage pack.  Robb is unsure whether the range loss
> would be proportional (7%, I can live with that), or more, due to "voltage
> sag" and age of cells.  He suggested I ask you, so here I am.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1. Would you recommend replacing or removing batteries from my pack?
> 
> 2. If removing, what is your guess on loss of range due to lower pack V,
> voltage sag?
> 
> 3. If replacing, do you expect the new cell to assume the lifetime of the
> rest of the batteries in the pack, as others have written on this listserv?
> 
> So far I am thinking to try removing, see how the range is affected by
> testing on a known route that is longer than the original hybrid range with
> this pack installed.  If unacceptably worse, add back the replacement cell.
> If not, carry on with the slightly smaller battery pack.  But I would be
> grateful for the wisdom of the list.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/replacement-or-removal-of-suspected-bad-40Ah-prismatic-LiFePO4-battery-tp4687552.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)



   
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://group

Re: [EVDL] replacement or removal of suspected bad 40Ah prismatic LiFePO4 battery

[paul dove via EV]

It's very easy to test a battery. Take it out of the pack and try to charge it. 
It will rise in voltage or not. You BMS boards probably have a minimum voltage 
to operate and cell fell below that voltage and does not imply the cells is 
bad. After you charge it then hook up to a know load and measure the capacity 
of the cell.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 3:34 PM, mnevans via EV  wrote:
> 
> I'm new to this discussion list, so I ask your patience: my understanding of
> EV systems and Li-ion batteries is limited.
> 
> The question is: replace a bad battery in a pack of 19, or make the pack 2
> batteries smaller and suffer an unknown loss of voltage and range?
> 
> Background:
> 
> I think I have a bad battery in one of 19 batteries that is in the second
> bank of a 4 bank x 19 CALB CA40FI battery pack.  The battery pack is used in
> a 10KW battery that is part of a Plug-In Supply conversion of a 2004 Prius
> to a plug-in Prius.  Robb Protheroe installed the system in late 2014, and
> it has seen about 10K miles, maybe 60% of that in all electric mode, about
> 900 partial or full charge cycles.  
> 
> The evidence that the battery is bad is an incomplete loop circuit.  I found
> that the battery management board atop the suspect battery was not powered,
> and moving that BMS board to another battery adjacent powered it.The
> suspect battery was at 2.67V.  The others adjacent are at 3.0V.  Originally
> they were all balanced at 3.26-3.27V. 
> 
> Robb Protheroe at Plug-In Supply suggested replacing the battery with a new
> one.  Unfortunately CALB no longer makes this 40Ah battery, but the Sinopoly
> or Winston 40Ah prismatic cells are nearly the same dimensions and
> specifications.  It looks like I can get a replacement for about USD$60 
> including shipping to me in Maryland USA, using www.ev-power.eu (a US
> supplier wanted $42 shipping for a $55 cell).  
> 
> The other option is to remove the bad battery and the one adjacent, and
> carry on with a lower voltage pack.  Robb is unsure whether the range loss
> would be proportional (7%, I can live with that), or more, due to "voltage
> sag" and age of cells.  He suggested I ask you, so here I am.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 1. Would you recommend replacing or removing batteries from my pack?
> 
> 2. If removing, what is your guess on loss of range due to lower pack V,
> voltage sag?
> 
> 3. If replacing, do you expect the new cell to assume the lifetime of the
> rest of the batteries in the pack, as others have written on this listserv?
> 
> So far I am thinking to try removing, see how the range is affected by
> testing on a known route that is longer than the original hybrid range with
> this pack installed.  If unacceptably worse, add back the replacement cell. 
> If not, carry on with the slightly smaller battery pack.  But I would be
> grateful for the wisdom of the list.
> 
> Thank you in advance for your help,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/replacement-or-removal-of-suspected-bad-40Ah-prismatic-LiFePO4-battery-tp4687552.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 3 Aug 2017 at 16:27, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

> From their site it's hard to tell where there funding comes from, they do list
> their funding as 27% from businesses and 70% from "foundations".  One of their
> Directors bios shows he has direct ties to big oil.

It's kind of negative to say it, but this formula has been working for over 
40 years, and not just with EVs.  To preserve their billions, the big money 
men invest millions in foundations and "think tanks."  I guess they figure 
that 1000:1 is a pretty good return on their money.  They are probably 
right.

Many or most of these pseudo-educational institutions (many/most qualify as 
nonprofits and thus pay no taxes and can accept tax-deductible donations.  
They send smooth-talking people in $1000 suits with impressive sounding 
credentials to do soothing, "common sense" interviews with the news media.  
The media almost never question them, since the "experts" make the so-called 
journalists' jobs easy and their advertisers happy. 

The more recent enhancements to this scheme are psychographically targeted 
social media advertising and trolling.  Facebook (among others) is only too 
happy to take their money, and help them learn what pushes your buttons.

The world might be in flames around them, and if that were what their 
masters wished, these people would smile and earnestly declare that there's 
no need to worry, everything is fine.

I don't know how you beat them at their game.  The only method I know of 
that might combat this smooth, deliberate anti-EV propaganda is good old 
fashioned one-on-one in-person proselytizing in favor of EVs.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)