not be just machines.
Man-made machines may be just machines.
Craig
wrb
From: everyth...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everyth...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:24 AM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made
On 06 Mar 2013, at 00:03, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 3/5/2013 3:03 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig,
You build an automaton, place it and turn it on, and from that
point in time forward
the automaton reacts to acceptable information all on its own.
You contradict yourself – - I
machines.
Craig
wrb
*From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto:everyth...@googlegroups.com]
*On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:24 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2
.
Craig
wrb
*From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto:
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:34 PM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:48:19 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig:
The mistake you make is clearly stated in your words:
“…doesn’t mean that they communicated with judgment.”
You
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:39:25 AM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
I have before claimed that the computer is
a good example of the power of semiosis.
It is simple enough to see that the mere
construction of a Turing machine confers
upon that machine the ability to recognise
all
: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:05 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:55:25 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 05 Mar 2013, at 19:14, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:03:28 PM UTC-5, William R
, March 07, 2013 8:10 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 10:55:31 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
The falling tree makes sound, the wind make sound, the . makes sound
regardless of your presence (or the presence
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:09:28 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Now we are getting some place.
Exactly. There is simply action.
Contexts react to sign.
They react to their interpretations
: [mailto:
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:05 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:55:25 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:33 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:39:25 AM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
I have before claimed that the computer is
a good example of the power of semiosis.
It is simple
: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:21:57 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig:
When you say that interpretation is consciousness you contradict
your prior statements regarding semiosis, that acceptance and action
are not value.
I'm not sure
*From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto:
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:17 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Wednesday, March 6
The context takes all action, to include the action
of doing nothing at all.
Once the signal is given by the transmitter, then sure it is up to the
receiver of the signal to interpret it. How the transmitter formats the
signal will influence the receiver's reception and interpretation
On Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:56:01 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
The context takes all action, to include the action
of doing nothing at all.
Once the signal is given by the transmitter, then sure it is up to the
receiver of the signal to interpret it. How the transmitter
...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:07:00 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
The fact that a machine can act in a discriminatory based
upon some signal (sign, information) input is demonstration
of value
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:12 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:48:19 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig:
The mistake you make is clearly stated in your words:
“…doesn’t mean
@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 4:12 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:48:19 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig
I have before claimed that the computer is
a good example of the power of semiosis.
It is simple enough to see that the mere
construction of a Turing machine confers
upon that machine the ability to recognise
all computations; to generate the yield of
such computations.
In this sense, a
Let´s say that what we call information is an extended form of sensory
input. What makes this input information is the usability of this input
for reducing the internal entropy of the receiver or increase the internal
order. The receiver can be a machine, a cell, a person or a society for
example.
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:06:20 AM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
There is information (I take information to be a
manifestation of entropy) and it is always represented
in the form of a pattern (a distribution) of the units
of mass/energy of which the Universe is composed.
I can
@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 5:24 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:06:20 AM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
There is information (I
:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 2:06:20 AM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
There is information (I take information to be a
manifestation of entropy) and it is always represented
in the form of a pattern (a distribution) of the units
of mass
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:53:31 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
Let´s say that what we call information is an extended form of sensory
input. What makes this input information is the usability of this input
for reducing the internal entropy of the receiver or increase the internal
-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:14 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:03:28 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig
forms in certain proscribed ways.
You cannot demonstrate otherwise.
wrb
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:37 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't
as a machine in many
ways.
Craig
wrb
*From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto:
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:14 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made
Dear Bil B. you probably have thought in these lines during similar long
periods as I did. It was ~2 decades ago when I defined
i n f o r m a t i o n as something with (at least) 2 ends:
1. the notion (in whatever format it shows up) - and
2. the acceptor (adjusting the notion in whatever
PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:03:31 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig,
You build an automaton, place it and turn it on, and from that point in time
forward
the automaton reacts to acceptable
javascript: [mailto:
everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:37 AM
*To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:53:31 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:27 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:07:00 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
The fact that a machine can act
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:13 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
Dear Bil B. you probably have thought in these lines during similar
On 3/5/2013 3:03 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig,
You build an automaton, place it and turn it on, and from that point
in time forward
the automaton reacts to acceptable information all on its own.
You contradict yourself -- - I don't think it has to be human --
machines only help
javascript:
*Subject:* Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
Dear Bil B. you probably have thought in these lines during similar long
periods as I did. It was ~2 decades ago when I defined
i n f o r m a t i o n as something with (at least) 2 ends:
1. the notion (in whatever format
Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 7:34 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:52:32 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
I do not hold that the acceptor must exist, for then I
am making a value judgment
There is information (I take information to be a
manifestation of entropy) and it is always represented
in the form of a pattern (a distribution) of the units
of mass/energy of which the Universe is composed. I
think that semiotic signs are simply specific bits
of information; I will use the
On Friday, March 1, 2013 8:27:54 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Thinking about how information content of a message
Big mistake. Information is never contained with but
exactly one exception, an envelope.
I was intentionally starting out from the common assumption that messages
javascript:
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On 3/1/2013 5:27 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
Thinking about how information content of a message
Big mistake. Information is never contained with but
exactly one exception, an envelope.
I made this point
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 6:02 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:37:15 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote
:
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:37:15 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 3/1/2013 8:39 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
And therein do you see the arbitrariness of either choice.
The universe is subjective, not objective.
Is that just your opinion
snip
I can use a phonetic transliteration to recite an Arabic
prayer without even knowing what words are being spoken,
let alone the meaning of those words.
If your argument is that you have no knowledge of what you
are doing, of the sounds you make in recitation, then you
have
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:59:14 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
snip
I can use a phonetic transliteration to recite an Arabic
prayer without even knowing what words are being spoken,
let alone the meaning of those words.
If your argument is that you have no knowledge of
of that transmission.
wrb
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 1:50 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:59:14 PM UTC
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 6:40:44 PM UTC-5, William R. Buckley wrote:
Craig:
The truth of your statement is no reply to my claim, that how another
receiver of signs responds is irrelevant to your knowledge, save the one
case of conveyance of knowledge between semiotic units; where
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 4:48 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On Saturday, March 2, 2013 6:40:44 PM UTC-5, William R
Thinking about how information content of a message
Big mistake. Information is never contained with but
exactly one exception, an envelope.
I made this point with Jesper Hoffmeyer regarding a
statement in his book Biosemiotics, that information
is represented but not contained in that
On 3/1/2013 5:27 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
Thinking about how information content of a message
Big mistake. Information is never contained with but
exactly one exception, an envelope.
I made this point with Jesper Hoffmeyer regarding a
statement in his book Biosemiotics, that information
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On 3/1/2013 5:27 PM, William R. Buckley wrote:
Thinking about how information content of a message
Big mistake. Information is never contained with but
exactly one exception, an envelope.
I made
as a 'geological specimen'.
Brent
wrb
-Original Message-
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-
l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 7:11 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Messages Aren't Made of Information
On 3/1
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