Re: Tegmark's new book

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
A consensus?!? Here??? Excuse me while I ROFLMAO, at least metaphorically. *I'm *gonna read the damn thing, ha ha, to quote a very old review by John Clute of a James Blish novel. Well, at least, I'm going to give it a go. I like Mad Max's mojo for some reason. They laughed at Bozo the clown,

Re: The Robot and the Wizard

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
Like, wow. Nice picture (I'm tempted to say it makes a lot more sense than some posts around here!) On 1 February 2014 08:40, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jOYKKp02FSU/Uuv8Dx3eOmI/AdU/bjA76WPypzU/s1600/robotwiz3.jpg -- You received

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 01:33, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, January 31, 2014 2:15:55 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 31 January 2014 17:13, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:32:02 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: It isn't *essential.

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 09:39, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any instance in which a computation is employed in which no program or data is input and from which no data is expected as output? The UD. Isn't everything output from the UD? No, as I understand it, only

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 01:40, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, January 31, 2014 2:22:12 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 31 January 2014 17:19, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:24:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: Why do some people have such a

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 02:08, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Why is this a problem? How can you know for sure that there is a flow of time? Block universe hypothesis can explain how time would appear to flow for each observer. This doesn't prove that block universe hypothesis are

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 02:32, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Again, the best way I can say it is that your mouth has to move plenty to tell me it isn't moving! Patronising, boring, insulting and totally failing to understand elementary physics. -- You received this message because you

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 10:52, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Right, but that's my point. Computationalism overolooks its own instantiation through input. It begins assuming that code is running. It begins with the assumption that coding methods exist. I am saying that those methods

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 07:59, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: A is traveling at near light speed most of the trip. That's why B sees A's clock slow Yes. And from A's point of view he's standing still and B is

Re: Tegmark's New Book

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 06:16, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Jan 2014, at 21:44, LizR wrote: On 30 January 2014 22:44, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Meanwhile - back at the ranch: Tegmark wants to think of consciousness as - wait for it - a state of matter

Re: Tegmark's New Book

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 17:37, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 1 Feb 2014, at 3:24 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Ah. Maybe I am being misled by the fact that I rather like Max :) Well look, Liz - so do I. He's almost as cute as Brian Cox - almost, but not quite. Both

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 13:22, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, January 31, 2014 5:32:49 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: It emerges along the time axis. Evolution, for example, can operate in a block universe. All the phenomena we experience can occur in a block universe, otherwise

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
On 1 February 2014 17:30, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: It's not an assumption, it is a question. I am asking, what good is computation without input/output and isn't the fact of i/o completely overlooked in the ontology of computationalism. Given that, isn't it more likely

Block Universes

2014-01-31 Thread LizR
There seems to be a bit of confusion about this idea. Some people on the list seem to abhor the idea of a block universe, but when they attack the concept, they invariably go for straw men, making statements like change can't happen in a block universe (which are obviously nonsense, or Einstein et

Re: Tegmark's new book

2014-02-01 Thread LizR
I will answer that if / when I have read it. On 2 February 2014 01:23, Ronald Held ronaldh...@gmail.com wrote: Liz I should have typed which of the two diametrically opposed camps has the most members in it. For another try I have read the following: arXiv:0704.0646 [pdf, ps, other]

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-01 Thread LizR
On 2 February 2014 04:44, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 1 February 2014 07:05, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Everything we observe takes place in a manner that can be placed within a space-time continuum such that a god's eye view (or the relevant equations) would see

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread LizR
The saga continues... [image: Inline images 1] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-01 Thread LizR
On 2 February 2014 06:47, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 1 February 2014 16:55, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If you don't see how my 'theory' automatically trumps any logical objection then you don't understand my theory fully. That is truly hilarious Craig! I

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-01 Thread LizR
For a trip of interstellar distance, the time dilation caused by getting into low earth orbit will be insignificant. Alice and Bob can compare their watches when Alice is in orbit, and see that they are still synchronised to high accuracy, at least as far as humans are concerned - there might be a

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Someone asked how a block universe comes to exist and if it comes into existence all at once, or a bit at a time (or something like that). I wish I could find the original question, to make sure exactly what it was. But I haven't managed to find it, and I can't spend all night trawling the forum

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 2 February 2014 03:42, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: To answer the question about the frogs. We imagine we are an extended frog because of memory; without it we really would be stuck in the present moment, a series of individual isolated moments - and completely

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 03:29, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 2 February 2014 05:40, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Phew. At least it isn't just me who has this reaction. Maybe Craig and Edgar can get together and form a church whose motto is I am right, and if you don't realise

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 00:04, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Hi Telmo, No, because I don't have to remember that my clock moved. I can actually OBSERVE it in the process of moving. That's one of many reasons

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 02:37, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: Chalmers knows he has put his finger on a stark contradiction - a paradox in fact - and he is intellectually honest enough to acknowledge its force. He shows that it should lead us to the conclusion - per impossibile - that we

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:05, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/2/2014 1:50 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Exactly. The only thing lagging is the AI. More or less, but AI is a bit relative. I agree with Hofstadter AI is when the program are not yet written, and once written we take them

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:48, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Your idea of my theory must be very different from mine. You appear to have Edgar-itis - I have a theory which I can't explain clearly, nor can I defend it against criticism except by insisting that nobody understands it.

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:31, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/2/2014 5:37 AM, David Nyman wrote: Craig, nothing you have said so far diminishes by a single iota the significance of the paradox to your theory. It's not so easy to disarm it as insouciantly interpolating armfuls of

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
On 3 February 2014 08:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/2/2014 1:44 AM, LizR wrote: Someone asked how a block universe comes to exist and if it comes into existence all at once, or a bit at a time (or something like that). I wish I could find the original question, to make

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Ooh, tricky - could that be Brent Meeker or Bruno Marchal being quoted? (I have my suspicions of course... :-) BM: But mathematical truth is not substituted for reality. i show that the machine's epistemology is already richer than the mathematical truth. -- You received this message because

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
. Jason On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 7:43 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 January 2014 12:49, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like I need to update the database connection information: http://everythingwiki.gcn.cx/wiki/ If others

Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
One I've mentioned ad nauseum - Memento. There is also The Prestige, which I would definitely recommend. To avoid spoilers, I won't go into detail about why these films might appeal, but they both address issues mentioned on this list (at least tangentially, and in a fictional manner). I might

Re: A humble suggestion to the group

2014-02-02 Thread LizR
Yes, it's in response to that. It just struck me that although the original couldn't get out on his own, the duplicates he created could still help him escape. On 3 February 2014 20:33, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 9:58 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Once

Re: Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
Oh, and I should of course mention The Pirates! Band of Misfits from Aardman (makers of Wallace and Gromit) which is the source of my new avatar. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 06:19, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Do you troll as a hobby or professionally? Oh I think you could call me a professional by now, in fact because I've been making many of these exact

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 09:29, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: John, A couple of points in response. Yes, I agree that both A and B see each other's clocks running slower than their own DURING the trip. This is standard relativity theory mostly Lorentz transform if we just take

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 11:48, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Liz, thanks for doing this thread, the history metaphor was also a great help. I wasn't clear what block time was and now I've got a better idea. Good, that was the point. A lot of people seemed to be attacking it on the basis of straw

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
That which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
with everybody's memories!* -- Here is a review... http://www.graemesfantasybookreview.com/2010/07/flux-michael-moorcockbarrington-bayley_07.html On 4 February 2014 12:12, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: On 2 February 2014 18:53, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I will come

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 12:23, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 5:48 PM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: But more generically speaking, would this inference for blocktime sit at the edge of relativity or at its core. What I mean is, beyond that it is an implication of

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 12:44, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Liz, You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and Einstein believed in block time. It isn't a question of belief. Newtonian and Einsteinian machanics both imply the existence of a block universe. I've

Re: How to define finite

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 12:37, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/3/2014 3:12 PM, LizR wrote: That which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it? Uh Oh! Now you've defined reality as finite. Bruno may make your possible stay after modal school necessary. :-) Well that may

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 13:19, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, February 3, 2014 4:25:14 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: It's because you're stuck on the idea that consciousness is something extra and optional. If you could see that it was logically entailed by certain physical

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 13:32, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 6:29 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: SR directly demonstrates block time via the relativity of simultaneity. This can be tested experimentally. The relativity of simultaneity is a claim about physics

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
Oh dear, you really don't have a clue, do you? OK, that's it. I foolishly replied to one or two of your posts in the hope you'd magically grown up, but I can't be bothered with this level of willful ignorance and infantile nonsense. I'll let you get on with scoring imaginary points, and stick with

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 13:57, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/3/2014 4:03 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 3 February 2014 23:42, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: That's hard to say. I think conscious thought will be found to a class of thoughts and there will be degrees of

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
Oh yes, many other things as well as scary. I would add to my recommendations the TV play The Giftie by the way, which I should have thought of earlier! On 4 February 2014 14:32, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/3/2014 5:02 PM, LizR wrote: On 4 February 2014 13:57, meekerdb meeke

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
I pressed the wrong button ... meant to add this to my last post http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1086852/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_5 On 4 February 2014 14:46, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Oh yes, many other things as well as scary. I would add to my recommendations the TV play The Giftie by the way

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
By the way, I just came across this rather amusing illustration of how SR leads to block space-time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rietdijk-Putnam_argument [image: Inline images 1] On 4 February 2014 16:34, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 16:56, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for all that. Very interesting. So what sort of implications would block time have for individual lives. Do they happen only onetime while their time is being actively blocked in? Or does blocktime exist statically as the end-to-end

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 17:06, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:29:11 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 12:23, Jesse Mazer laser...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 5:48 PM, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: But more generically speaking, would this inference for

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 17:11, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:19:42 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 12:44, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net wrote: Liz, You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and Einstein believed in block time. It

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 17:29, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: Liz - I was just thinking. If Newton's world predicted a variant of blocktime. What is that saying, given Newton's world wasn't correct? Or was it based some aspect that is correct? Well it clearly doesn't disprove that space and time form

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
As Brent says we have to bear in mind that SR is a model of reality. The ontological status of its components is another question, as it is with every theory. Most physicists have assumed that either space-time really *is* a 4D manifold (Max Tegmark for instance), or it's something else that is

Re: Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
, but the recently reimagined Battlestar Galactica probes many of the questions of machine vs. human consciousness. I recommend it to Craig. Jason On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:14 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: One I've mentioned ad nauseum - Memento. There is also The Prestige

Re: Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
Oops Inception (told you I don't even have time to check my typing :) On 4 February 2014 20:33, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: My son (15) has been trying to get us to watch Incaption for a while. Once we get time... On 4 February 2014 20:19, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-02-03 Thread LizR
I did wonder once if, since the holographic principle implies that the information in a universe is proportional to the surface area of the Hubble sphere, could it be that the information in the *multiverse* is proportional to the volume of the Hubble sphere? (Although I guess the multiverse

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 23:58, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 01:55, LizR wrote: On 4 February 2014 13:32, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 6:29 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: SR directly demonstrates block time via the relativity

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 13:19, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Because silicon happens That would explain the blue screen of death ! :-) Sorry. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 07:45, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 9:57 AM, David Nyman wrote: On 4 February 2014 17:32, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing a theory on something other than it's own terms. I think Craig might

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
where a photon is emitted and absorbed within an EPR experiment. On 5 February 2014 09:54, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 3:35 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 February 2014 23:25, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 00:29, LizR

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 10:05, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/31/2014 11:05 PM, LizR wrote: There seems to be a bit of confusion about this idea. Some people on the list seem to abhor the idea of a block universe, but when they attack the concept, they invariably go for straw men

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 10:39, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 1:11 PM, Jesse Mazer wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 3:59 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: There is nothing exotic about the state of a photon being determined by future boundary conditions. You *could

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 10:58, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 4:39 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 1:11 PM, Jesse Mazer wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 3:59 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: There is nothing exotic about the state

Re: UDA and AUDA are the same thesis?

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 00:36, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 06:49, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 08:40:59AM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: Then explain why you don't read the UDA, or why you don't read AUDA, which is the same thesis, but no more using

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 23:44, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 01:19, Craig Weinberg wrote: It's because you're stuck on the idea that consciousness is something extra and optional. If you could see that it was logically entailed by certain physical phenomena or

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 4 February 2014 23:53, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 01:25, LizR wrote: On 4 February 2014 13:19, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, February 3, 2014 4:25:14 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: It's because you're stuck on the idea

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 06:36, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 12:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But I don't believe that. I think that consciousness is a necessary aspect of intelligence, OK. and that is functionally observable. It is not. Leibniz already understood this.

Re: The Big Bang Never Happened - Eric Lerner

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 03:29, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: I love that Lerner guy. It looks like he really cares. He thinks science is bombing, and he's doing his duty as he sees it, to try to save it. He's clearly insane...but could he be expected to know that. Not unless he really is a

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 12:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 2:35 PM, LizR wrote: You said we don't need a coordinate system at all, we can just use 4-momenta and 4-intervals - so using those doesn't imply or define a 4D coordinate system? Sure they imply that a 4D

Re: Fw: [Swines] Matter itself doesn't make this journey, only the information that describes it

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
Matter itself doesn't make this journey, only the information that describes it. It looks like a photon has to make the journey, or am I misunderstanding? (Or isn't a photon matter?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To

Re: Fw: [Swines] Matter itself doesn't make this journey, only the information that describes it

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
that are in use all over the world. On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:28 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Matter itself doesn't make this journey, only the information that describes it. It looks like a photon has to make the journey, or am I misunderstanding? (Or isn't a photon matter

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 06:24, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/3/2014 11:49 PM, LizR wrote: I did wonder once if, since the holographic principle implies that the information in a universe is proportional to the surface area of the Hubble sphere, could it be that the information

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 12:53, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/4/2014 3:25 PM, LizR wrote: .. Well, we don't know if *anything* is really real. I wasn't intending to discuss metaphysics on this thread; if you want to do that, maybe you could start another one. All I'm arguing

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 13:18, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: It's the easiest way to think about SR. And it works for GR too so long as you avoid closed time-like loops. But GR and QM seem to be inconsistent, so it's hard to say either one is a good candidate for what's real. I just

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 13:31, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: I'm presuming you don't mean blocktime directly predicts...but relativity. If so, I take your point obviously. If you meant blocktime directly, I'd love to hear the prediction. I meant relativity, but that *is *based around the concept of

Re: Fw: [Swines] Matter itself doesn't make this journey, only the information that describes it

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 14:30, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Of course, you realise there must have been a bunch of entangled particles at both ends of the teleport link prepared ahead of time, which does involve matter transport! I thought that's what the photons were for!

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
On 5 February 2014 14:45, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Tue, Feb 04, 2014 at 08:49:57PM +1300, LizR wrote: I did wonder once if, since the holographic principle implies that the information in a universe is proportional to the surface area of the Hubble sphere, could

Re: Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
Moon is great! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

Re: Ways to be a Super Position

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
Well there are cats, alive and dead... (not to mention Wigner, in a state of having seen the aforementioned cat alive / dead...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-02-04 Thread LizR
I don't know about a summary, but the whole book is available here: http://www.hpcoders.com.au/theory-of-nothing.pdf On 5 February 2014 17:58, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 1:45:18 AM UTC, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Feb 04, 2014 at 08:49:57PM +1300, LizR

Re: Art That Reminds Me to Say No to the Doctor

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
Wow! Those are incredible! Very Platonic ...! (I assume they're genuine and not photoshopped). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 00:07, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: OK. But time symmetry still asks fro special boundary condition, and seems to me to still look like using ad hoc information to select one reality against others. I agree with Deutsch's idea that Cramer transactional theory is

Re: R there 2 Max Tegmarks'? Was: Max Tegmark retires Infinity at Edge Question

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
2 Maxes? Hmm. Can't be bad. Maybe he has an evil twin! (or maybe this is an unexpected result of that quantum suicide experiment he talked about a few years back...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this

Re: Math not fundamental proto proof

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
Calculus must be one of the maths things at play in NM, surely? Otherwise it's all probably rather complex for me... :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

Re: Films I think people on this forum might like

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Films I think people on this forum might like Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 12:25:00 +0100 On 04 Feb 2014, at 08:33, LizR wrote: My son (15) has been trying to get us to watch Incaption for a while. Once we get time... After the prestige, that was rather disappointing

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 08:49, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Edgar. I am the one arguing that there is no definitive way to decide whether block time or presentism is correct, you are the one trying to present various proofs that presentism *must* be the

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 08:49, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: The point is, you aren't just saying that you personally choose to interpret the fact that the magnitude of the 4-velocity vector is always equal to c in terms of everything moving through spacetime is c, you're saying that

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 10:41, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: But where Edgar went wrong was to suggest that this implies that all points along a path traced out an object moving through space time Objects don't move through space-time, only through space :-) This is one of

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 11:34, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Thu, Feb 06, 2014 at 11:05:22AM +1300, LizR wrote: On 6 February 2014 10:41, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: But where Edgar went wrong was to suggest that this implies that all points along

Re: Unput and Onput

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 11:36, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/5/2014 2:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Feb 2014, at 18:32, meekerdb wrote: I have criticized it for it's seeming lack of predictive power - a problem with all theories of everythingism so far, and also string theory.

Standard of education in USA obviously not high...

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/messages-from-creationists-to-people-who-believe-in-evolutio And God hates Mars... http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=PIA17932 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 12:06, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: Jesse, This is just outrageously wrong. Block time implies the most magical mystical miraculous creation event of all times, of the entire universe from

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 12:50, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 03:05:54PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, Now that both Liz and I have corrected your misunderstanding of block time What was my misunderstanding of block time (more usually known as

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 13:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: That is exactly why I say a BU can never describe consciousness. Is that specifically a BU, or any form of materialism? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 13:38, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 2/5/2014 9:31 AM, Jesse Mazer wrote: --question 1 dealt with the question of how YOU would define p-time simultaneity in a cosmological model where there's no way to slice the 4D spacetime into a series of 3D surfaces such

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 14:16, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: I don't know. I suspect Liz was being a little overeager in attributing 1p phenomena to the explanatory reach of the block universe, but it could be she's a closet eliminative materialist, in which case, yes, we have a

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
On 6 February 2014 14:34, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: On Thu, Feb 06, 2014 at 02:19:20PM +1300, LizR wrote: My position is that (since today has an R in it) I accept there is a problem with consciousness supervening on matter, and hence no materialist (physicalist

Re: Eidetic memory and the comp hypothesis

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
This is a very interesting point. What is the estimated capacity of the human brain? I seem to recalls some 10^17 bits being mentioned somewhere, or at least that figure has stuck in my mind (but not having an eidetic memory, or much of a normal one, I can't say where from). On 6 February 2014

Re: Modal Logic (Part 3: summary + 1 exercise)

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
discourses) A - ~[]A (related to Gödel) []([]A - A) - []A (related to Löb) []([](p - []p) - p) - p (related to Grzegorczyk, the Grz of S4Grz). Bruno On 29 Jan 2014, at 11:23, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Jan 2014, at 01:05, LizR wrote: On 29 January 2014 08:29, Bruno Marchal

Re: Eidetic memory and the comp hypothesis

2014-02-05 Thread LizR
(in the strong sense of emergence). On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:31 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: This is a very interesting point. What is the estimated capacity of the human brain? I seem to recalls some 10^17 bits being

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