Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
t;they intend to stay". We'll see how > governments, banks etc. react in the coming years. > > > CISPA and other words with a lot "A", apparently. > > > > I don't know which currencies/virtual economies will turn out to be > stable/reliable in the long run, but I do know that a government quest to > contain or control these would be as ridiculous as closing a pornography > website and claiming you have control over pornography on the internet. > > > In the long run, but the bandits will defend their (fake) money. Prohibition > was a fatal error. I think it is too late for them, but they will still make > things hard ... > > > > But they do raise interesting questions about our surfing habits, privacy, > and the ways in which we do business + their implications. They question > "how systemically relevant" certain financial institutions are, as people > are apparently engaging the risk of new currencies and different ways to > conceive of, frame, and practice business and trade. PGC > > > All that is very interesting, and gives some hope for fair and genuine > competitions. We are only at the beginning of the beginning. Nothing will be > simple, and some cyber-conflicts will develop. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: >>> > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking >>> > down >>> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? >>> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. >>> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, >>> > closely >>> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. >>> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? >>> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) >>> > JM >>> >>> Well said John! >>> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >>> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >>> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >>> >>> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the >>> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would >>> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time >>> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- >>> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private >>> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. >>> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. >>> >>> Telmo. >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term >>> >> effects >>> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >>> >> >>> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital >>> >> by >>> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) >>> >> This >>> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >>> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >>> >> >>> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose >>> >> its >>> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination >>> >> and is >>> >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) >>> >> are much >>> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >>> >>> >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> >>> collapse: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> >>> > >>> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> >
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 01 May 2013, at 15:56, Telmo Menezes wrote: The current mainstream narrow interpretation of science is religion in my sense. Absolutely. It is imposed Aristotelian theology, mainly. It is dogma and irrationalism. It does not fit either with the facts, nor with logic+comp. It does not fit with what anyone (any-Löbian-one) can discover by looking inward deep enough, with or without external helps. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
es some hope for fair and genuine competitions. We are only at the beginning of the beginning. Nothing will be simple, and some cyber-conflicts will develop. Bruno 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > JM Well said John! Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age. I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. Telmo. > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > > wrote: >> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and is >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are much >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> collapse: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough > >>> wrote: >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> > >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >>> > >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . >>> > Visit this group at >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . >> Vis
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
igners? >> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. >> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, >> closely >> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. >> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? >> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) >> > JM >> >> Well said John! >> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >> >> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the >> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would >> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time >> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- >> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private >> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. >> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. >> >> Telmo. >> >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > > >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term >> effects >> >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >> >> >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital >> by >> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) >> This >> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination >> and is >> >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) >> are much >> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >> >>> collapse: >> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >> >>> > >> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >> >>> > >> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> >>> > >> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> > Groups >> >>> > "Everything List" group. >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send >> >>> > an >> >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > To post to this group, send email to >> everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > Visit this group at >> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> >>> "Everything List" group. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an >> >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >> . >> >>> Visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >>> >> >>> >
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
nothing that can be understood. >> >> >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital >> >> by >> >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) >> >> This >> >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >> >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination >> >> and is >> >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are >> >> much >> >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >> >>> >> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >> >>> collapse: >> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >> >>> > >> >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >> >>> > >> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> >>> > >> >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> > Groups >> >>> > "Everything List" group. >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> >>> > send >> >>> > an >> >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > To post to this group, send email to >> >>> > everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> >>> > Visit this group at >> >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups >> >>> "Everything List" group. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >>> an >> >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> >>> Visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Alberto. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "Everything List" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> >> an >> >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> >> Visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > an >> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 01 May 2013, at 00:19, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Telmo said: Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age. Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination. cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are ALL bloody by the very nature of human society. I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a dogmatic blind to facts. Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the ones own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop. Every digital machine, or relative number, has a quite rich theology, whose propositional part is already ell well described mathematically, at the propositional level, by a modal logic (G*) and its intensional variants. And the result is that the theology is far closer to Plato's one, than Aristotle's one. The physical reality is but a border of something else. Now theology is the most fundamental science, and it is normal the politics try to control it by 'violence', as it gives a quasi infinite amount of freedom, and they fear losing control. Nature does that all the time too, it is part of life. It is an eternal conflict. About nation, and internet, things will change, for reason appearing here, as an example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/22/silk-road-online-drug-marketplace (Thanks to those who provide me with this important link). Bruno 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > JM Well said John! Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age. I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. Telmo. > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > > wrote: >> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and is >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are much >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> collapse: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> On Mon,
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 11:57 PM, John Mikes wrote: > Telmo: did you research WHERE would you migrate FREELY to find all those > goodies? > I did for awhile before I had a chance to DO it and got nowhere. The "global > rottenness" abounds. Hi John, yes, I sadly agree with you. It's a bit claustrophobic. I was dreaming about a world with no borders, where like-minded people get to live according to their values and be left alone in their chunk of the planet. For example, I have nothing against the idea of a nation of puritanical christians, provided I am not forced to live there and they leave the other nations alone (I know, it's funny). What I know of the world is mostly restricted to Europe + UK and North America. I find the clichés to be somewhat true: in the USA you get more economical freedoms and a whole lot of puritanism, in the EU (which is less homogeneous) you get way less puritanism at the expense of economical freedoms. I've recently moved to Germany (Berlin) and so far I'm positively impressed. I mostly agree with the American constitution, and I would be happy to live in a country that followed it (modernising the language a bit wouldn't hurt, though). I'm sure your experiences are much richer and more interesting than mine, and I would love to hear more about them. Telmo. > John M > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Telmo Menezes > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: >> > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking >> > down >> > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? >> > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. >> > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, >> > closely >> > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. >> > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > > >> > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) >> > JM >> >> Well said John! >> Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there >> wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming >> especially ridiculous in the Internet age. >> >> I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the >> one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would >> have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time >> getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- >> criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private >> sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. >> The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. >> >> Telmo. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 4/30/2013 3:19 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: Telmo said: /Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age./ Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination. So the New York Giants and the Philadelphia Eagles have to have different religions - since they can't both win. And I have been mistaken all these years that my co-workers and I were coordinating to achieve something we regarded as worthwhile and we were paid to do; when actually we were practicing a religion. What sophistry and logic-chopping. People need cooperation and society - so they're really all socialists. People disbelieve in almost all gods - so they're really atheists. cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are ALL bloody by the very nature of human society. And those "modern" religions still metastasize their bloody origins where ever they aren't restrained by the Enlightenment ideals: Muslim terrorists. African persecution of homosexuals. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/world/africa/ugandan-lawmakers-push-anti-homosexuality-bill-again.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Speak for yourself. Live with it and take care about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a dogmatic blind to facts. Yeah, that was Paul Tillich's move: Whatever you care about is God. Didn't work for him either. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
Telmo said: *Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age.* Telmo I often agree with you, but I can not avoid to smail at this. Religion is not something outside the man that it can get rid of. It is an internal and vital faculty of the human mind. If you have only a nation, you have nationalism, that is a religion. If you have only Internet people will develop a religion around internet perhaps a bloody religion. Simply because we have legs, we want to walk, and we have a religious instinct, we need religion. legs are for running from predators. Religion is for coordination. cut the legs of a person and a it can not walk. deprive people from religion and they will develop their primitive-form-of religion and recent history in communist countries tell that again and again. And primitive religions are ALL bloody by the very nature of human society. I am religious you are religious everyone is religious because neither you neither me can extirpate the mental circuitery. Live with it and take care about which content do you accept in a religious way. And reflect yoursef about what is what you believe in the deep, what are your comunity of believer and either if you treat the other people in a fair way or you are a dogmatic blind to facts. Everyone blame about the beliefs of others. Now is time to think in the ones own. And everyone has a religion. Full stop. 2013/4/29 Telmo Menezes > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: > > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking > down > > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, > closely > > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > > JM > > Well said John! > Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there > wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming > especially ridiculous in the Internet age. > > I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the > one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would > have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time > getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- > criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private > sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. > The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. > > Telmo. > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > > wrote: > >> > >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects > >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. > >> > >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital > by > >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) > This > >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of > >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. > >> > >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its > >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination > and is > >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are > much > >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. > >> > >> > >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes > >>> > >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic > >>> collapse: > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough > >>> wrote: > >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within > >>> > > >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. > >>> > > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > >>> > > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
Telmo: did you research WHERE would you migrate FREELY to find all those goodies? I did for awhile before I had a chance to DO it and got nowhere. The "global rottenness" abounds. John M On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: > > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking > down > > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, > closely > > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > > JM > > Well said John! > Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there > wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming > especially ridiculous in the Internet age. > > I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the > one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would > have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time > getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- > criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private > sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. > The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. > > Telmo. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down > on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely > connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > JM Well said John! Just like religions, nations are an artefact from an era when there wasn't anything better to scaffold civilisation. They are becoming especially ridiculous in the Internet age. I would tolerate them better if you could migrate freely and chose the one you like the most (in terms of laws, for example). Then they would have to compete for citizens, and politicians would have a harder time getting away with the sort of shenanigans they do nowadays -- criminalisation of victimless behaviours, legislation on the private sphere, unreasonable wars, humiliation in name of safety and so on. The concept of "others" is very important to enslave the masses. Telmo. > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > wrote: >> >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of >> individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and is >> going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are much >> more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >>> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> collapse: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >>> wrote: >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> > >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >>> > >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> > Groups >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> > an >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> > Visit this group at >>> > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ever
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
Russell:
I greet a hint towards humor from you. My remark is not in the 'joking'
department about
1. 'nations die...' - why shouldn't they? what good does to humankind the
'nationality craze' with all the wars, atrocities, brutality, greed/envy
and cruel oppression by 'national pride' or hate? A 'national language' is
a barrier to free communication among groups of people, the national music
is an asset. Is it worth the negatives?
So: if we can get rid of 'religious' (fundamentalist) errors, i.e. at least
one level worse than just the 'national', humankind would gain by also
losing the nationality based segregation.
2. Agnostic ("A) is a negative, unlike the 'atheistic' ( - "a" : also a
negative). While "A" does naturally not identify the topical (or any other)
content of whatever an "A" does not know -
"a" negates the existence of a god (God?) designed over the millennia
equipped with most human weaknesses we may have - among others vanity to
be continually praised, servitude,subordination and total submissiveness
'to the master', requiring complete faith, presents and offerings, an
omniscience that, however requires the communication of the 'mortals',
judgmental vengeance and complete privacy from any inquiry. In return there
is a promise in eternity (not a time span) of poorly identified pleasures.
An 'atheist' is close to an extremist 'skeptic' usually not replacing the
denied Supreme Being by a more rational Thought.
Congrats to your son for his clear mind.
I usually refrain from arguing with the 'faithful' since one asked me (on
another list): who gave you the audacity to believe to be superior to our
ways? I am no missionary, don't want to convert, or transform (even hurt?)
anybody.
Regards
John Mikes
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:01:09PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
> > Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that
> > wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact
> > that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most
> of
> > them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes
> > stability?
> >
> > Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after
> > Antarctica,
>
> More peaceful than Australia, even? London riots, Paris riots,
> bombings in Northern Ireland. Sure we have our nutters too, bid you a
> Port Arthur versus the Utoya (Olso), Dunblane or Omagh massacres, and
> we have recently has a spate of shootings out in the Moslem heartland
> in Western Sydney, but compared with the years of open warfare in the
> former Yugoslavia, this is tame stuff indeed.
>
> In the more than 200 years of western civilisation in Australia (or
> occupation as the original inhabitants call it), we've never had war,
> just the odd battle here an there (Eureka stockade, bombing of Darwin
> by the Japanese, or a couple of missiles fired across Sydney in that
> same skirmish).
>
> > and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth
>
> Some bits are more religious than others - its very uneven. I suspect
> one reason that there are so many declared atheists in Scandinavia is
> the presence of the church tax. Even though nominally, only about 30%
> of Australia put down atheist or agnostic on their census forms, the
> reality is that there are only two great religions in Australia, AFL and
> NRL (Aussie Rules and Rugby League), with a third in ascendancy
> (Soccer).
>
> My son (who is devout atheist) just mentioned yesterday that he is
> enjoying the company of one of his friends who is quite a strong
> Christian, as he can have some meaningful theological debates with
> him. Most of his school friends (he goes to a Christian school), are
> agnostic or atheist.
>
> > after Antarctica, most of the few hundred full time residences of that
> > continent are scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics.
> And
> > Europe would be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic
> influence
> > that has increased over the last few decades.
> >
>
> Anyway, aside from Australia, Europe is doing fairly well on the peace
> front, as compared with the other continents :).
>
> Cheers
>
> --
>
>
>
> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> Principal, High Performance Coders
> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
>
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 01:01:09PM -0400, John Clark wrote: > Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that > wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact > that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most of > them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes > stability? > > Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after > Antarctica, More peaceful than Australia, even? London riots, Paris riots, bombings in Northern Ireland. Sure we have our nutters too, bid you a Port Arthur versus the Utoya (Olso), Dunblane or Omagh massacres, and we have recently has a spate of shootings out in the Moslem heartland in Western Sydney, but compared with the years of open warfare in the former Yugoslavia, this is tame stuff indeed. In the more than 200 years of western civilisation in Australia (or occupation as the original inhabitants call it), we've never had war, just the odd battle here an there (Eureka stockade, bombing of Darwin by the Japanese, or a couple of missiles fired across Sydney in that same skirmish). > and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth Some bits are more religious than others - its very uneven. I suspect one reason that there are so many declared atheists in Scandinavia is the presence of the church tax. Even though nominally, only about 30% of Australia put down atheist or agnostic on their census forms, the reality is that there are only two great religions in Australia, AFL and NRL (Aussie Rules and Rugby League), with a third in ascendancy (Soccer). My son (who is devout atheist) just mentioned yesterday that he is enjoying the company of one of his friends who is quite a strong Christian, as he can have some meaningful theological debates with him. Most of his school friends (he goes to a Christian school), are agnostic or atheist. > after Antarctica, most of the few hundred full time residences of that > continent are scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics. And > Europe would be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic influence > that has increased over the last few decades. > Anyway, aside from Australia, Europe is doing fairly well on the peace front, as compared with the other continents :). Cheers -- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
2013/4/24 John Clark > Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that > wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact > that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most of > them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes > stability? > > Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after > Antarctica, and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth > after Antarctica, I suppose that you mean "the second most peaceful between European wars" don´t you? Ops not even. I forgot the 5+ jewish and the 6+ ucranians massacrated behind the front line or in peace in the holly land of Atheism by their popes. > most of the few hundred full time residences of that continent are > scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics. And Europe would > be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic influence that has > increased over the last few decades. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
You are conflating peace with stability. Terren On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:01 PM, John Clark wrote: > Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that > wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact > that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most of > them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes > stability? > > Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after > Antarctica, and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth > after Antarctica, most of the few hundred full time residences of that > continent are scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics. And > Europe would be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic influence > that has increased over the last few decades. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
Even if it was true that nations die when they lose their religion that wouldn't mean that religion tells the truth, in fact we know for a fact that most of them are wrong because there are lots of religions and most of them contradict each other. But is it even true that religion promotes stability? Right now Europe is the second most peaceful continent on Earth after Antarctica, and Europe is the second most atheistic continent on Earth after Antarctica, most of the few hundred full time residences of that continent are scientists and most scientists are atheists or agnostics. And Europe would be even more peaceful that it is without the Islamic influence that has increased over the last few decades. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
Roget told about the nation. Not about the nationalism. They have little to do in common. In fact when natíons lose their religión, nationalism is the sustitutive religión that takes over, most of the time, before the nation is lost. One thing is a nation and another is nationalism. A nation (whatever you may call it) is a natural institution where people live. Nationalism is a ideology that posit that the own nation is above everithing. Individuals included. As such is a totalitary ideology. Nationalism is neither better nor worse in principle that any other ideology that make people to act in common for a common goal, that by definition ever is mostly and foremost for the benefit of the group. But nationalism is not or has not to be part of a nation. nations are natural and exist because people that live geographically nearby share the same history the same customs and language and therefore it is easier to communicate and collaborate with someone nearby than with someone else . .And better collaboration means división of work, wealth, freedom ad security. A nation is like a familly, open and collaborative with other families. Nationalism is like the Gang of the Corleone 2013/4/24 Bruno Marchal > > On 23 Apr 2013, at 23:21, John Mikes wrote: > > And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking > down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? > Nationalism is a pest in the human world. > You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, > closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. > Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? > > > > You just gave the answer above. The advantage of nationalism, and other > form of clubism are socially huge (albeit quite local and short termed) : > you can rape, torture, exploits the "others". > In case of economical problems you can easily complain only on "others", > and eventually start wars. > It is a common reaction of many mammals when they are put in precarious > condition, but some men can resist. > > Nationalism is a form of collective solipsism, or collective autism. It is > a form of barbary. Religion is supposed to help here, but that's also why > religion can be misused and exploited by the "nationalist" of the > spiritual. > I prefer to call them pseudo-religion, and keep the meliorative sense for > the general original generous idea. > > Bruno > > > > (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) > JM > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > >> This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects >> mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. >> >> In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by >> adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This >> enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy >> of individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. >> >> In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its >> common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and >> is going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are >> much more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. >> >> >> 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes >> >>> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >>> collapse: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >>> wrote: >>> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >>> > >>> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >>> > >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >>> > >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >>> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups >>> > "Everything List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an >>> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> > Visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> > For more optio
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 24 Apr 2013, at 00:10, meekerdb wrote: On 4/23/2013 2:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? Nationalism is a pest in the human world. You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) JM Exactly! And what is an example of a nation "dying"? Hungary, which "died" from having too many religions?...or from losing Marxism? Did Rome lose its religion?...which one? The one which has no name but that we can discuss, question, and interrogate in the academy. Well, in some of them, as the academy is as' human too much human' than the clergy nowadays. Perhaps worst. Bruno Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 23 Apr 2013, at 23:21, John Mikes wrote: And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? Nationalism is a pest in the human world. You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? You just gave the answer above. The advantage of nationalism, and other form of clubism are socially huge (albeit quite local and short termed) : you can rape, torture, exploits the "others". In case of economical problems you can easily complain only on "others", and eventually start wars. It is a common reaction of many mammals when they are put in precarious condition, but some men can resist. Nationalism is a form of collective solipsism, or collective autism. It is a form of barbary. Religion is supposed to help here, but that's also why religion can be misused and exploited by the "nationalist" of the spiritual. I prefer to call them pseudo-religion, and keep the meliorative sense for the general original generous idea. Bruno (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) JM On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona > wrote: This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and is going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are much more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic collapse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within > > Nations die when they lose their religion. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw > > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On 4/23/2013 2:21 PM, John Mikes wrote: And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? Nationalism is a pest in the human world. You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) JM Exactly! And what is an example of a nation "dying"? Hungary, which "died" from having too many religions?...or from losing Marxism? Did Rome lose its religion?...which one? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
And what good does it do to H A V E nations? Starting wars? Looking down on every other nation? Exploiting strangers/foreigners? Nationalism is a pest in the human world. You are right saying that it is - sort of - a religious aberration, closely connected with religion itself. So the proposition may be true. Could anyone LIST the benefits of 'national' existence/feeling? (Forget about the secondaries: mother tongue, folk-music, lit, etc.) JM On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects > mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. > > In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by > adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This > enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy > of individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. > > In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its > common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and > is going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are > much more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. > > > 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes > >> On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic >> collapse: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough >> wrote: >> > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within >> > >> > Nations die when they lose their religion. >> > >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw >> > >> > >> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> > >> > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 >> > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an >> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> > Visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
This is like economic laws. If we talk about short and long term effects mixed, there is nothing that can be understood. In the short time, a crisis trigger humans to enhance social capital by adhering to the common values (which are ever religious of some kind) This enhances mutual help and a decrease of conflcts due to discrepancy of individualistic goals. It is a sort of emergency mode. In the long term, by the same reasons, a group of people that loose its common religious values loose the informal mechanisms of coordination and is going to death, since these values (that are ultimately religious) are much more important and are the foundation of the formal ones. 2013/4/22 Telmo Menezes > On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic collapse: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within > > > > Nations die when they lose their religion. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw > > > > > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Nations die when they lose their religion.
On the other hand, belief in god seems to correlate with economic collapse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_belief_in_god.svg On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within > > Nations die when they lose their religion. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw > > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 > http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Nations die when they lose their religion.
Former KGB Agent explains: The destruction of America from within Nations die when they lose their religion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWlyt2ldKw Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 4/22/2013 http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
