[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
When I visited Libya I found a most advanced and prosperous nation -
not a bunch of crazy terrorists.
In Iran I found people the friendliest of any country that I had
visited - not a country looking to alienate itself.
In Afghanistan I found a people curious about the outside world - not
a bunch of fantatical zealots wanting to smash technology and keep
women from being educated.
When I first visited India, I encountered helpful people, proud that
young westerners should want to visit their country - not a bunch of
religious bigots with racial hangups.
But, of course, I only met with ordinary people and they are not the
ones that cause the trouble.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > +++ someone should point out that the west was started
> > > > after the powers that be discovered that the east was
> > > > a bust and, started over.
> > >
> > > And that elitists in the East have been whining about
> > > it ever since in tracts like the one Vaj posted. :-)
> > >
> > > The "jerk quotient" didn't come from his theory of
> > > why people pre-claim enlightenment; the "jerk quotient"
> > > came from being an Indian with an inferiority complex
> > > that expresses itself by calling non-Indians "asuras"
> > > and putting them down. I find it difficult to under-
> > > stand how someone can see past the "jerkness" to
> > > appreciate the supposed "theories." The jerk "view"
> > > ("all non-Indians are of low birth, unevolved, and
> > > probably the incarnation of asuras") determines the
> > > theory ("...and that's why they are drawn to false
> > > gurus"). The theory is *based on* the elitist jerk
> > > beliefs. It's sorta like reading a theory about why
> > > Jews are drawn to money, written by Adolf Eichmann.
> >
> > If westerners are such asuras, why do modern gurus have
> > to develop a following of western asuras and the bankrolls
> > that they provide to even be heard in their homeland?
>
> And why do Eastern gurus design their grand buildings
> to look exactly like British Raj government buildings,
> and call them "Vedic?" :-)
>
> I really think that a lot of this "Westerners are
> asuras" stuff comes from Indians who still resent
> being a conquered people, and who haven't gotten
> over their love/hate/envy relationship with the
> British.
>
> They point at the Vedas and the *mythical* past of
> India (which they cannot document in actual history)
> and say, "We are great, the cradle of spiritual know-
> ledge on the planet. Don't look at the mess that we
> made of our country and the social customs we devel-
> oped that kept all of our women powerless and a huge
> part of our population poor, despised and untouchable
> for centuries, focus on the *myth* of what India was
> like in the "Vedic period," the same myth *we* like
> to focus on."
>
> I'm sorry, but it's bullshit. It's just the olde
> "chosen people" elitism shit rearing its ugly head
> again, and the fact that it's rearing its head in
> "Mother India" doesn't make it any more palatable
> than it does when it appears elsewhere on the planet.
>
> > Are *satvic* easterners more dense than the asuras or
> > what? Sometimes the smoke is really thick..
>
> Indeed it is. If there is such a thing as an asura,
> it thinks in terms of elitism and all of the people
> it's superior to. Seems to me that in the tract that
> Vaj posted, there is no question about where that
> particular 'tude arose...in the East.
>
> > P.T. Barnum
>
> "There's a sucker reborn every minute..."
>
> > west of Scorpionland
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL only in the US
Personally, I don't use the uk home page much, though its good for checking UK news sometimes. Otherwise the .com is more useful, more global. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > on 3/5/06 12:14 PM, Premanand Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > The Russian page is very useful, however try the following link and > > > see if you can find an active group related the topic:- > > > http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/ > > Is the home(?)page "useless", then: > > http://uk.yahoo.com > > > > > > Can't. I see no setting which would enable FFL to show up in > > country-specific Yahoo groups. Alex or Gullible Fool to the rescue? > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL only in the US
The Russian page is very useful, however try the following link and see if you can find an active group related the topic:- http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/5/06 12:03 PM, cardemaister at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >> So maybe that's how so many non-US people find us. They know > > they'll get a > >> limited selection unless they use groups.yahoo.com > > > > Hmm... strange, because: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/zp6up > > But that's a search in Yahoo itself, not the Russian equivalent of > groups.yahoo.com. Or does each country which has a customized Yahoo have a > customized Yahoo Groups home page? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL only in the US
In the UK, if one searches groups at yahoo.co.uk, only 4 groups are displayed when searching 'Transcendental Meditation':- Transcendental-Meditation-Siddhas - 21 members Independent-Transcendental-Meditation - 13 members i_TM - 5 members Anutadaka - 5 members & Typing 'Fairfield Life' gives the following response: "Sorry, no matches were found for 'fairfield life'." Whereas, if instead one searches from here using yahoo.com, 30 groups are listed including FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/5/06 9:51 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hey Rick, > > > > Did you know FFL is only visible from the US yahoo site? Anyone > > searching yahoo groups in Britain, Australia, France etc for > > "Fairfield Life" or "Transcendental Meditation" won't find this > > group. I don't know if you can change this, or if you want to... > > Is this a recent development? If not, how did all you out-of-US folks find > us? We have people signing up from India and places like that all the time. > Or at least we did. I would like to fix this if we can. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from the disillusioned of the UK
In addition to not wishing to communicate with anyone other than lackies, I suspect that MMY also tells himself stories to explain away the lack of $ucce$$ of his $cheme$. Possibly the tale about him throwing our The Beatles is one of his own? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" > wrote: > > > > I predict the plan to make vedic city, iowa a pilgrimage > > center for hindus will be even more successful than MMY's > > plan to make (doug henning's) vedaland more popular than > > disneyworld, though not as successful as his plan to make > > hagelin president. > > A fairly safe prediction. :-) > > I wonder whether one of the major factors involved in > the failure of these ideas is the near-total lack of > familiarity on the part of Maharishi and the TMO > higher-ups with the common people they think they are > appealing to. > > I mean (a question for those of you who might know), > how long has it *been* since Maharishi met someone > face to face who does not practice TM and who does > not have the money to buy their way into his presence? > Ten years? Fifteen years? Longer? All that time, as > far as I know, the *only* people he has interfaced > with are the Truest of the True Believers, complete > Yes-men and Yes-women who *share* his disdain for > and distance from the common people of the planet. > > The *arrogance* of it all is not unlike George W. > Bush pretending to understand and care about the > problems of the middle class in America. Bush not > only knows nothing about them; chances are that > he hasn't even *talked* with any of them in his > entire life. He's *famous* for wanting to be > surrounded only by people of his "class." > > These projects are meant to appeal to Maharishi's > *fantasies* of what people are like and what they > want, not what people are really like and what > they want. No wonder they don't work. As Jimi > Hendrix once sang: > > And so castles made of sand > slip into the sea, eventually > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Careful what you say about pleasuring, remember this site became temporarily reclassified as an 'adult' site not so long ago. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The interesting thing about this discussion is that > > > > according to MMY, he took this same path with Guru > > > > Dev of "attuning one's thinking to that of the teacher." > > > > > > > > If it's true that when you do this, you take on all > > > > the qualities of mind of the teacher, what does that > > > > say about the qualities of MMY's mind that are so > > > > often criticized here? > > > > > > Go back and read the discussion. > > > > No, I read the discussion already, thanks very much. > > > > > No one ever > > > suggested that it was an all-or-nothing process, > > > or that everyone is successful at modeling the > > > mind of their teacher. > > > > Perhaps you should read what *I* wrote. I never > > said anyone had ever suggested it was an all-or- > > nothing process or that everyone is successful > > at modeling the mind of their teacher. > > > > See that little squiggly thing at the end of what > > you quoted from my post? That's a question mark. > > > > The operative phrase in the question is, "What > > does that say about...?" > > > > But here's what you wrote (and snipped from your > > response): > > > >> "So IMO it's a good idea, from time to time, to take > >> a few steps back and really *examine* the mind that > >> you're trying to attune yourself to. Do you really > >> *want* all that you see there? Because you're going > >> to get it *all* as a result of the mind-modeling, > >> not just the parts you want." > > > > So, in fact, you not only suggested, you said > > explicitly that it was an "all-or-nothing" process. > > > > No wonder you carefully snipped the quote. > > > > Your *corrections* to your original statement in > > this reply are perfectly reasonable; they're > > exactly what I was attempting to elicit: It's not > > quite so cut-and-dried as you initially said. > > > > Why couldn't you just make those corrections, > > without prefacing them with the claim that I > > hadn't read what you wrote? > > > > I know that all I meant > > > to suggest is that it's something that one works > > > at over a long period of time -- years, or decades. > > > And not everyone is successful at doing it. > > > > > > I would suggest that Maharishi wasn't particularly > > > successful at doing it, since one of his first > > > actions after Guru Dev's death was to not obey > > > what he'd told him to do (that is, go into seclusion, > > > and not teach). > > > > > > In addition, the effects of mind-modeling only "last" > > > so long. After almost fifty years, I suspect that > > > Maharishi has had an opportunity to pick up a few > > > kinks of his own. :-) > > Judy, by now I suspect that almost everyone here > has figured out that the *only* reason you try to > get involved in discussions with me is to use them > as part of your ongoing crusade to put me down, > or to "win" the discussion in your mind, and/or > suggest that nothing I say is to be trusted. > > I hope that this quest brings you great pleasure. > Doing this with Vaj and myself and sometimes Paul > seems to be one of the only things in your life > that *does* bring you pleasure, so in the interest > of furthering joy in the universe I would not > interfere with it. > > On the other hand, there is nothing that says I > have to participate in it, so carry on all by > yourself. :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Clearly, MMY saw himself as more than just a secretary to Guru Dev. I quote a passage from 'Thirty Years Around the World':- 'I remember it took me about two and a half years to really adjust myself. Right from the beginning the whole purpose was to just breathe in his breath. This was my ideal. The whole purpose was just to attune myself with Guru Dev, and that was all that I wanted to do.' It is interesting to note that before becoming Shankaracharya Guru Dev is said to have been something of an administrator himself in that it is recorded that he set up the Shri Krishnanand Saraswati Trust, and established an ashram and Sanskrit school in Varanasi. For what it's worth, I came by a shortlist (seemingly anonymous) which surfaced in India some many years back, which makes comparison between MMY and Guru Dev:- 1. Both were the youngest in the Ashram. 2. Both were very intelligent and so loved their Masters above all even senior brahmacharis and sadhus. 3. Both managed ashram affairs and management beautifully and to the standard and wish of the masters. 4. Both progressed remarkably on the path of Yoga so the Masters were very pleased with them and loved them immensely. 5. Due to their quick progress several Asramites became jealous of them and complained to the masters at random meaning to turn them out of the ashram. 6. Both of them are the most brilliant and shining stars in the spiritual horizon of the world. 7. People from all walks of lives gathered around Guru Dev as they gather around Maharishi Ji now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:06 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > Again: Were these qualities MMY got from mind-modeling > > Guru Dev? > > He was a SECRETARY for christsakes--he just did what any good > secretary does, anticipated the needs of his boss. Why do people need > to read some cosmic explanation into that? He learned to be an > efficient secretary. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Clearly, MMY saw himself as more than just a secretary to Guru Dev. I quote a passage from 'Thirty Years Around the World':- 'I remember it took me about two and a half years to really adjust myself. Right from the beginning the whole purpose was to just breathe in his breath. This was my ideal. The whole purpose was just to attune myself with Guru Dev, and that was all that I wanted to do.' It is interesting to note that before becoming Shankaracharya Guru Dev is said to have something of an administrator himself in that it is recorded that he set up the Shri Krishnanand Saraswati Trust, and established an ashram and Sanskrit school in Varanasi. For what it's worth, I came by a shortlist which surfaced in India some many years back, which makes comparison between MMY and Guru Dev (the author of which is unknown to me):- 1. Both were the youngest in the Ashram. 2. Both were very intelligent and so loved their Masters above all even senior brahmacharis and sadhus. 3. Both managed ashram affairs and management beautifully and to the standard and wish of the masters. 4. Both progressed remarkably on the path of Yoga so the Masters were very pleased with them and loved them immensely. 5. Due to their quick progress several Asramites became jealous of them and complained to the masters at random meaning to turn them out of the ashram. 6. Both of them are the most brilliant and shining stars in the spiritual horizon of the world. 7. People from all walks of lives gathered around Guru Dev as they gather around Maharishi Ji now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:06 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > Again: Were these qualities MMY got from mind-modeling > > Guru Dev? > > He was a SECRETARY for christsakes--he just did what any good > secretary does, anticipated the needs of his boss. Why do people need > to read some cosmic explanation into that? He learned to be an > efficient secretary. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Yes and no. It all depends how the topic surfaces. Actually, The Beatles are still a name to conjure with and many still remember their going to India. So if 'revelations' are projected carefully enough, they can still arouse a lot of interest. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Other than a few people on FF Life and maybe some Beatle-ologists, who > actually cares about any of this stuff? I think probably nearly no one > at all. I find that, in general, most people, including long-time > spiritual aspirants, have gotten so jaded and so desensitized to most > of what goes on in the world, that little attention is paid to most of > this blather. > > When you can worry about whether Tom and Katie have broken up, whether > Jude Law is really having a torrid relationship with Jessica (who is > really ugly) Simpson, and when you can be SOO happy that Kirstie Ally > lost 55 pounds by eating frozen food, who cares about Deepak Chopra > and the Maharishi? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Actually, it is probably as someone has already suggested, that > > Deepak is positioning himself as the authority on MMY. He is alleged > > to have claimed that MMY offered him leadership of the movement, > > possibly by raising a bit of controversy he hopes that some attention > > might come his way. > > But more likely is that he has just got confused, but the result is > > still that he will get greater media attention. The only problem for > > him is that it might backlash on him, for there are greater > > authorities than him, when it comes to The Beatles. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey! > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > on 2/19/06 10:56 AM, hugheshugo at richardhughes103@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The only woman I know of who has said she's going to come > > > > > >>>> forward is Judith B., who reportedly has written a book, > > > > > >>>> but is waiting till MMY dies to publish it. If she does > > > > > >>>> do so, that may embolden others. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> If these stories are true where does that leave the TMO? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I doubt much will change. The only people in the > > > > > >> world who care about Maharishi are the long-term > > > > > >> TMers of the world. They already believe what they > > > > > >> believe, and nothing will change for them. And > > > > > >> nobody else gives a shit; to the world at large, > > > > > >> Maharishi is an irrelevancy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes this is true, the rest of the world will laugh at us for > > > > being > > > > > > taken in for so long. (I kept an open mind as you never know) > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind you, I used to work in the TM press office when one of > > > these > > > > > > stories came out and people were reaally upset, A lot of > > people > > > > have > > > > > > huge amounts of their life mixed up in this it will be a > > > disaster > > > > > > for them if true. Huge denial on the way I think. > > > > > > > > > > It seems like this recent story from "Deepak" may be advance > > > > preparation for > > > > > buttressing that denial. It's an attempt to rewrite the story > > of > > > > why the > > > > > Beatles left Rishikesh so as to shift all blame from MMY to > > them > > > > and > > > > > discredit the womanizing story. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what would Deepak's motivation be in defending MMY and the > > TMO? > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Actually, it is probably as someone has already suggested, that Deepak is positioning himself as the authority on MMY. He is alleged to have claimed that MMY offered him leadership of the movement, possibly by raising a bit of controversy he hopes that some attention might come his way. But more likely is that he has just got confused, but the result is still that he will get greater media attention. The only problem for him is that it might backlash on him, for there are greater authorities than him, when it comes to The Beatles. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey! > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > wrote: > > > > > > on 2/19/06 10:56 AM, hugheshugo at richardhughes103@ wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The only woman I know of who has said she's going to come > > > >>>> forward is Judith B., who reportedly has written a book, > > > >>>> but is waiting till MMY dies to publish it. If she does > > > >>>> do so, that may embolden others. > > > >>> > > > >>> If these stories are true where does that leave the TMO? > > > >> > > > >> I doubt much will change. The only people in the > > > >> world who care about Maharishi are the long-term > > > >> TMers of the world. They already believe what they > > > >> believe, and nothing will change for them. And > > > >> nobody else gives a shit; to the world at large, > > > >> Maharishi is an irrelevancy. > > > > > > > > Yes this is true, the rest of the world will laugh at us for > > being > > > > taken in for so long. (I kept an open mind as you never know) > > > > > > > > Mind you, I used to work in the TM press office when one of > these > > > > stories came out and people were reaally upset, A lot of people > > have > > > > huge amounts of their life mixed up in this it will be a > disaster > > > > for them if true. Huge denial on the way I think. > > > > > > It seems like this recent story from "Deepak" may be advance > > preparation for > > > buttressing that denial. It's an attempt to rewrite the story of > > why the > > > Beatles left Rishikesh so as to shift all blame from MMY to them > > and > > > discredit the womanizing story. > > > > > > > And what would Deepak's motivation be in defending MMY and the TMO? > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Yet another article- G harrison/Maharsihi
Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > on 2/19/06 10:56 AM, hugheshugo at richardhughes103@ wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > > >> wrote: > > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > >>> wrote: > > > > The only woman I know of who has said she's going to come > > forward is Judith B., who reportedly has written a book, > > but is waiting till MMY dies to publish it. If she does > > do so, that may embolden others. > > >>> > > >>> If these stories are true where does that leave the TMO? > > >> > > >> I doubt much will change. The only people in the > > >> world who care about Maharishi are the long-term > > >> TMers of the world. They already believe what they > > >> believe, and nothing will change for them. And > > >> nobody else gives a shit; to the world at large, > > >> Maharishi is an irrelevancy. > > > > > > Yes this is true, the rest of the world will laugh at us for > being > > > taken in for so long. (I kept an open mind as you never know) > > > > > > Mind you, I used to work in the TM press office when one of these > > > stories came out and people were reaally upset, A lot of people > have > > > huge amounts of their life mixed up in this it will be a disaster > > > for them if true. Huge denial on the way I think. > > > > It seems like this recent story from "Deepak" may be advance > preparation for > > buttressing that denial. It's an attempt to rewrite the story of > why the > > Beatles left Rishikesh so as to shift all blame from MMY to them > and > > discredit the womanizing story. > > > > And what would Deepak's motivation be in defending MMY and the TMO? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
It's not hard to track down the source of the lyrics, there have been
several authorised books relating to this period, and countless
published interviews with The Beatles themselves.
There are also recordings of them actually playing at the Maharishi's
ashram which turn up on Beatles bootleg recordings. There is
McCartney's 'Happy Birthday Michael Love' song:-
We'd like to thank you Guru Dev
Just for being our guiding light
Guru Dev, Guru Dev, Guru Dev
We'd like to thank you Guru Dev
For being up through the night
The Spiritual Regeneration Worldwide Foundation - of India
A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I. Jai Guru Dev.
And then there is also the long documentary filmed for Italian
television (Rai TV newsreel) much of which was filmed on the sand
bank of the Ganges with MMY in attendance too). The celebs and many
others on the Spiritual Guide Course sang along to various songs
including Dylan's 'Blowin in the Wind', 'When the Saints Come
Marching In' and the 'Hare Krishna Mantra jam'.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
> wrote:
> >
> > John Lennon acknowledged that he reverted to drug taking after
his
> > time at the Maharishi's Ashram, and though many of the songs on
the
> > White Album were written in India, not the ones mentioned
('Helter
> > Skelter', 'Happiness is a Warm Gun' or 'Why Don't We do it in the
> > Road?') nor were many of the others, which were written during
the
> > sessions.
>
> Ok. I will defer to you. But do you have a source?
>
> I am going on common lore of the time. But it had to have been a
month
> or so after India. Course was spring of 68, White album came out
early
> fall of 68. Usually there was a 3-6 month lag between recording and
> release.
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Who are the Roma/Gypsies?
Romany Gypsies came out of India http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/ancient/AncientRepublish_1191889.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 'There are currently some 8.5 million Roma/Gypsies in Europe, around 70 > per cent of whom are in Central and Eastern Europe. Roma/Gypsy > communities have been present in Europe since at least the beginning of > the fourteenth century. They were originally from Northern India, yet > were wrongly perceived by many to have been of Egyptian origin, hence a > variety of appellations reflecting this - Tsigan, Zigeuner, Gitano, > Gypsy etc. - which are still used today.' > > Extract from the following link:- > http://www.minorityrights.org/Profiles/profile.asp?ID=13 > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Who are the Roma/Gypsies?
'There are currently some 8.5 million Roma/Gypsies in Europe, around 70 per cent of whom are in Central and Eastern Europe. Roma/Gypsy communities have been present in Europe since at least the beginning of the fourteenth century. They were originally from Northern India, yet were wrongly perceived by many to have been of Egyptian origin, hence a variety of appellations reflecting this - Tsigan, Zigeuner, Gitano, Gypsy etc. - which are still used today.' Extract from the following link:- http://www.minorityrights.org/Profiles/profile.asp?ID=13 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
John Lennon acknowledged that he reverted to drug taking after his
time at the Maharishi's Ashram, and though many of the songs on the
White Album were written in India, not the ones mentioned ('Helter
Skelter', 'Happiness is a Warm Gun' or 'Why Don't We do it in the
Road?') nor were many of the others, which were written during the
sessions. There were songs which were written in India which weren't
included on the White Album, amongst them some few that alluded to
TM, including 'Sour Milk Sea' (by George Harrison and recorded by
Jackie Lomax) & 'Child of Nature' (by John Lennon). There was
also 'Not Guilty' (George Harrisons lament 'Not Guilty for leading
you astray on the road to Mandalay, Not Guilty!').
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > on 2/17/06 10:40 AM, markmeredith2002 at markmeredith@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Who tried to push the "revisionist" untruth that the
> > > >> Beatles were thrown out of MMY's ashram because they
> > > >> were doing drugs?
> > > >
> > > > The drug rationale has been around in the mov't for decades -
> > it's a
> > > > way for TBs to cope with the MMY-Beatles breakup, it doesn't
jibe
> > with
> > > > 95% of what people who were there say. Chopra apparently
heard
> > it
> > > > while in the mov't and passed it on at that time. How it got
> > into a
> > > > 2006 Indian article on the beatles is still a mystery to me?
> > >
> > > The Rishikesh unstressing stories from long rounders who had
done
> > drugs
> > > prior to the course are legendary. "Dear" Prudence Farrow was
one
> > of the
> > > most colorful. But until this week, I've never heard it said
that
> > the
> > > Beatles were doing drugs in Rishikesh. I've heard it said
> > explicitly many
> > > times that they were clean.
> > >
> >
> > I think it was Oral Roberts who complimented MMY for getting the
> > Beatles clean...
>
> Helter Skelter certainly sounds drug free. As does Happiness is a
Warm
> Gun (a recently used syringe if you go beyond the obvious sexual
> metaphor), and Lets Do It in the Road -- a clear tribute to the life
> in accord with the laws of nature. They stole that from the Shastras
> didn't they?
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Another Article- Deepak, G Harrison, MMY
Deepak Chopra is not the only medical man to challenge popular opinion about The Beatles history. I know of a doctor, who runs a hospital in Rishikesh, who is adamant that Yoko Ono stayed with him in 1968 whilst John Lennon stayed at the Maharishi Ashram. Was Bevan the eggman, Clements the walrus, you're doctor should know! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Writer and thinker DEEPAK CHOPRA has exploded the myth that his friend MAHARISHI MAHESH YOGI fell out with THE BEATLES over a secret romance by insisting the Indian guru simply grew tired of the Fab Four's drug use. > > Neither The Beatles nor the Maharishi have spoken about their bitter falling out, leading many to speculate about the reasons for the bust-up. > > Some of those close to both The Beatles and the Maharishi have claimed the guru propositioned a friend of the group - possibly actress MIA FARROW - prompting JOHN LENNON and GEORGE HARRISON to leave India and cease communications with their former spiritual advisor. > > But Chopra now insists the Maharishi simply "lost his temper when he learned they were doing drugs". > > Chopra adds, "The rumour was that Maharishi had misbehaved with Mia Farrow, but I met Mia years later at the airport while taking a flight to India, and she asked me to tell Maharishi that she still loved him." > > Meanwhile, during his guest editor stint for the Times of India newspaper on Tuesday (14FEB06), Chopra also revealed he helped set up a top secret reconciliatory meeting between the Maharishi and Harrison in 1991. > > He recalls, "We got on to a chartered plane... and flew to Vlodrop in the Netherlands, where Maharishi was staying." > > Chopra recalls it was an emotional meeting, during which Harrison apologised to the Maharishi for severing ties with him. > > The Maharishi brought Harrison to tears, according to Chopra, when he forgave his former student, stating, "I knew the Beatles were angels on earth... I could never be upset with angels." > > > > - > > What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
It appears that Chopra's story goes back to 2001 Deepak Chopra on his Friend George Harrison 12/16/01 04:46 AM Q:What was the reaction to the Beatles embracing the Maharishi or Eastern spirituality? Chopra: It made news. It made huge news at the time when they first came to India and they left in a hurry because of some altercation John had with Maharishi. George didn't want to leave but they did leave. And then 30 years later he actually went with me to meet with Maharishi just to kind of say, we were young, so I hope you forgive us There's a little bit of a legendwhether it's true or not I don't know--when they came to the United States for the first time, the Beatles, they were on the Ed Sullivan Show--their first show in America. According to GeorgeI don't know if this is a fact or not but it's an often repeated story by George and by Maharishi as well the one hour they were on the Ed Sullivan Show there was no crime committed in America. So Maharishi when he heard that he said that these four boys are angels in disguise and that's how he used to refer to them. How did he react when George said I hope you can forgive us? He said there's nothing to forgive--you're angels in disguise and he brought up that story. He said I could never be upset with angels. Q:Was George conscious of the impact he was having? http://www.audarya- fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism/12714/27/collapsed/5/o/1 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (More from) 'Deepak Chopra on his Friend George Harrison' > Interviewed by Steve Waldman > > According to his friend, 'the quiet Beatle' had a personal > relatitionship not only with Eastern religion but with Jesus Christ. > > http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_1.html > http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_2.html > http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_3.html > http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_4.html > > An excerpt from the article > > 'How would you assess his influence on the spiritual landscape? > > The world would not have known Ravi Shankar if it hadn't been for > George Harrison. He brought the sitar to the West, and along with > that he brought Indian music to the West, he brought Ravi Shankar to > the West, and he brought Indian spirituality to the West. So I would > say that whether he was responsible for that or he was part of the > tidal wave he was just part of the whole movement of consciousness > that was occurring in the sixties--it's all kind of neither here or > there. He was both a part of the movement, he was also an initiator > of the movement. > > There's a little bit of a legendwhether it's true or not I don't > know--when they came to the United States for the first time, the > Beatles, they were on the Ed Sullivan Show--their first show in > America. According to GeorgeI don't know if this is a fact or not > but it's an often repeated story by George and by Maharishi as well > the one hour they were on the Ed Sullivan Show there was no crime > committed in America. So Maharishi when he heard that he said that > these four boys are angels in disguise and that's how he used to > refer to them. > > How did he react when George said I hope you can forgive us? > > He said there's nothing to forgive--you're angels in disguise and he > brought up that story. He said I could never be upset with angels.' > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
(More from) 'Deepak Chopra on his Friend George Harrison' Interviewed by Steve Waldman According to his friend, 'the quiet Beatle' had a personal relatitionship not only with Eastern religion but with Jesus Christ. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_1.html http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_2.html http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_3.html http://www.beliefnet.com/story/94/story_9434_4.html An excerpt from the article 'How would you assess his influence on the spiritual landscape? The world would not have known Ravi Shankar if it hadn't been for George Harrison. He brought the sitar to the West, and along with that he brought Indian music to the West, he brought Ravi Shankar to the West, and he brought Indian spirituality to the West. So I would say that whether he was responsible for that or he was part of the tidal wave he was just part of the whole movement of consciousness that was occurring in the sixties--it's all kind of neither here or there. He was both a part of the movement, he was also an initiator of the movement. There's a little bit of a legendwhether it's true or not I don't know--when they came to the United States for the first time, the Beatles, they were on the Ed Sullivan Show--their first show in America. According to GeorgeI don't know if this is a fact or not but it's an often repeated story by George and by Maharishi as well the one hour they were on the Ed Sullivan Show there was no crime committed in America. So Maharishi when he heard that he said that these four boys are angels in disguise and that's how he used to refer to them. How did he react when George said I hope you can forgive us? He said there's nothing to forgive--you're angels in disguise and he brought up that story. He said I could never be upset with angels.' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
It appears that the Times of India articles relating to The Beatles inform no more than that in September 1991 Harrison accompanied Chopra on a visit to MMY in Vlodrop, Holland. Or did he? What is sure is that in April's Fool Day, 1st April 1992, George Harrison announced his plans to put on a show at the Royal Albert Hall, London on behalf of the Natural Law Party. And it was Fab! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 2/14/06 3:37 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > There is no author listed for the article. Possible TMO disinformation and > > lies? According to this article the Beatles were tripping at Maharishi Nagar. > > > > When Maharishi threw Beatles out > > [ Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:01:39 amTIMES NEWS NETWORK ] > > > > NEW DELHI: This is a true story of love and bitterness, recrimination and > > reconciliation. It¹s a story of glamour and spirituality, drugs and rock n¹ > > roll. It¹s about four men whom the world worshipped, and the mentor they first > > adored, then abhorred. It¹s a story that has never before been told in its > > entirety, though gossip and rumours have swirled around it for years. > > > > Why exactly did relations between the Beatles and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi sour? > > Was there any truth to the allegations that the Maharishi had propositioned a > > friend of the Beatles? As an erstwhile disciple of the Maharishi, and a close > > friend of the Beatles, spiritual master Deepak Chopra is probably one of the > > few people who knew the real story. > > > > He said after some prodding: "The Beatles along with their entourage, which > > included Mia Farrow were doing drugs, taking LSD, at Maharishi¹s ashram, and > > he lost his temper with them. He asked them to leave, and they did in a huff. > > But when they went to the US, John Lennon gave an interview on the Johnny > > Carson show, accusing Maharishi of being a dirty old man. Later, Lennon also > > wrote a satirical song about Maharishi, which went: Sexy Sadie, what have you > > done/you made a fool of everyone." > > > That¹s the first allegation I¹ve ever heard that the Beatles were doing > drugs in Rishikesh. Cynthia Lennon said they were drug-free there and doing > better than ever. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
The words used in the exchange between Harrison and MMY seem like an echo of The Beatles past:- '"For what?" asked Maharishi. "You know for what," replied Harrison.' Sounds not unlike John Lennon with MMY in 1968:- 'And I said "You know why," and he said "I don't know why, you must tell me" and I kept just saying "You ought to know." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante wrote: > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1415351,curpg- > 1.cms > > > > > > "Did Maharishi harbour any bitterness towards the Beatles? > > > > Chopra smiled. "Part of the Beatles lore is that when they made > their > > first appearance on American TV, on the Ed Sullivan show, there > was no > > crime in the US for that one hour. > > > > Maharishi told us, 'When I heard this, I knew the Beatles were > angels > > on earth. It doesn't matter what John said > > or did, I could never be upset with angels'. On hearing that, > George > > broke down and wept." > > > > Thanks for the link...fascinating. > > However, I didn't understand the part where the Beatles were asked > to leave. I had never heard that part of the story...I assume they > were referring to when in Rishikesh John and George were the last > two Beatles there and they left...I had always understood that they > left on their own accord because they thought there was funny > business going on...so what's this about being asked to leave? > > I also didn't understand the part where George said "I didn't want > to lie". > > Can anyone expound on these points? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
According to the online version of Times of India there is more to the article:- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1415230,curpg- 2.cms "But I'm sure there was never any truth to Lennon's allegations," added Chopra. "In fact, the rumour was that Maharishi had misbehaved with Mia Farrow, but I met Mia years later at the airport while taking a flight to India, and she asked me to tell Maharishi that she still loved him." 1st part http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1415230.cms 2nd part http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1415230,curpg- 2.cms --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Feb 14, 2006, at 4:30 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > Thanks for the link...fascinating. > > > > However, I didn't understand the part where the Beatles were asked > > to leave. I had never heard that part of the story...I assume they > > were referring to when in Rishikesh John and George were the last > > two Beatles there and they left...I had always understood that they > > left on their own accord because they thought there was funny > > business going on...so what's this about being asked to leave? > > > > I also didn't understand the part where George said "I didn't want > > to lie". > > > > Can anyone expound on these points? > > There is no author listed for the article. Possible TMO > disinformation and lies? According to this article the Beatles were > tripping at Maharishi Nagar. > > When Maharishi threw Beatles out[ Wednesday, February 15, 2006 > 12:01:39 amTIMES NEWS NETWORK ] > > NEW DELHI: This is a true story of love and bitterness, recrimination > and reconciliation. Itâs a story of glamour and spirituality, drugs > and rock ânâ roll. Itâs about four men whom the world > worshipped, and the mentor they first adored, then abhorred. Itâs a > story that has never before been told in its entirety, though gossip > and rumours have swirled around it for years. > > Why exactly did relations between the Beatles and Maharishi Mahesh > Yogi sour? Was there any truth to the allegations that the Maharishi > had propositioned a friend of the Beatles? As an erstwhile disciple > of the Maharishi, and a close friend of the Beatles, spiritual master > Deepak Chopra is probably one of the few people who knew the real story. > > He said after some prodding: "The Beatles â" along with their > entourage, which included Mia Farrow â" were doing drugs, taking LSD, > at Maharishiâs ashram, and he lost his temper with them. He asked > them to leave, and they did in a huff. But when they went to the US, > John Lennon gave an interview on the Johnny Carson show, accusing > Maharishi of being a dirty old man. Later, Lennon also wrote a > satirical song about Maharishi, which went: Sexy Sadie, what have you > done/you made a fool of everyone." > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"
This seems to be the first published mention of The Beatles being 'asked to leave' the Maharishi's ashram in India. It is most likely that this 'quote' is just be a glitch in transferring Chopra's story into print. However, that Harrison "didn't want to lie" is very likely referring to not wanting to have to lie to the Maharishi during their exchange in Vlodrop, in Harrison recounting his side of the story about the well-publicised upsets that led them to leave. The words used in the exchange between Harrison and MMY seem an echo of the past:- '"For what?" asked Maharishi. "You know for what," replied Harrison.' Sounding not unlike John Lennon with MMY in 1968:- 'And I said "You know why," and he said "I don't know why, you must tell me" and I kept just saying "You ought to know." . --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante wrote: > > > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1415351,curpg- > 1.cms > > > > > > "Did Maharishi harbour any bitterness towards the Beatles? > > > > Chopra smiled. "Part of the Beatles lore is that when they made > their > > first appearance on American TV, on the Ed Sullivan show, there > was no > > crime in the US for that one hour. > > > > Maharishi told us, 'When I heard this, I knew the Beatles were > angels > > on earth. It doesn't matter what John said > > or did, I could never be upset with angels'. On hearing that, > George > > broke down and wept." > > > > Thanks for the link...fascinating. > > However, I didn't understand the part where the Beatles were asked > to leave. I had never heard that part of the story...I assume they > were referring to when in Rishikesh John and George were the last > two Beatles there and they left...I had always understood that they > left on their own accord because they thought there was funny > business going on...so what's this about being asked to leave? > > I also didn't understand the part where George said "I didn't want > to lie". > > Can anyone expound on these points? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: A yoga-upanishad on A, U and M
Yes, it this quote appears to be matching component sounds of 'om',
viz. the letters a, u, & m with the gunas
thus;
'a' is allegedly rajasic, (energetic - red)
'u' is sattvic, (without blemish - white)
with
'm' being tamasic (dark - black)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> Yoga-chuuDaamaNyupaniSat (saama-veda, 46/108)
> on a, u and m (a-kaaraH, u-kaaraH, ma-kaaraH):
>
> akaaro raajaso rakto brahma chetana uchyate .
> ukaaraH saattvikaH shuklo viSNur ity abhidhiiyate .. 75..
> makaaras taamasaH kRSNo rudrash cheti tathochyate .
>
> a = red? (rakta)
> u = white (shukla)
> m = black (kRSNa)
>
>
> 2 rakta a. dyed, coloured, red, charming, beautiful, excited,
agitated,
> impassioned, fond of (loc., gen., or ---), delighted with (instr.),
> loving, enamoured. f. {A} lac; n. blood, *saffron.
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Shortly after the mention, in the intro lecture in Belgium, of that 'He can practice Hundreds of meditations', there is another quote of note:- Female questioner: 'Did you first start this teaching in the Himalayas?' MMY: 'I started in India, in the Himalayas I found I was very happ... fortunate to find a perfect master who just radiated that fullness of life. And I just basked in his radiance. And here is the opportunity for the whole of mankind to enjoy. I owe everything to my master.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Shremp, you got me intrigued with your quote, so I checked out the > > recording. It was on the 12th March 1974 in Brussels, Belgium, > about > > one and a half hours into the 'Intro lecture' during which Jerry > > Jarvis also made a contribution. MMY said:- > > > > 'Give the knowledge pertaining to the practice. Satisfy all the > > doubts and questions regarding understanding and then leave the > man > > to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, > > with everything that he wants to do. Just fifteen minutes morning > and > > evening. He can practise HUNDREDS of meditations, we don't mind. > As > > long as he does this fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, morning and > > evening he'll enjoy, he will begin to enjoy everything that he > will > > do'. > > > > > Thanks, Paul. > > For the record, I think this is one of the most powerful -- and, > potentially, controversial quotes -- MMY has ever made. Indeed, I > think it boldly and confidently proclaims the power that the TM > technique has. > > Paul, could you share with us how you got a hold of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > > I've always taken the tact that MMY took (only that one time!) > in > > > Belgium in March 1974 when he said that you can practise 100 > > > different techniques as long as you do TM twice a day. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Shremp, you got me intrigued with your quote, so I checked out the recording. It was on the 12th March 1974 in Brussels, Belgium, about one and a half hours into the 'Intro lecture' during which Jerry Jarvis also made a contribution. MMY said:- 'Give the knowledge pertaining to the practice. Satisfy all the doubts and questions regarding understanding and then leave the man to be with his tradition, with his culture, with his way of life, with everything that he wants to do. Just fifteen minutes morning and evening. He can practise HUNDREDS of meditations, we don't mind. As long as he does this fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, morning and evening he'll enjoy, he will begin to enjoy everything that he will do'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've always taken the tact that MMY took (only that one time!) in > Belgium in March 1974 when he said that you can practise 100 > different techniques as long as you do TM twice a day. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Photos of Brahmastan/ Girish Varma
You mean the business will go into believership? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > > > wrote: > > > > --- Rick Archer > > > > wrote: > > > > > on 2/10/06 1:23 PM, wayback71 at wayback71@ > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> This web site is a delightful photo story of the > > > > > >> celebration and trip to > > > > > >> India for January 12th, put together by a > > > > > >> Russian Purusha. There is > > > > > >> running English translation > > > > > >> > > > > > >> http://www.maharishi.org.ua/india2006/ > > > > > >> > > > > > > The photos were great. But who is Girish Varma, > > > > > > exactly? > > > > > > What does he do in the TMO? His picture is hung > > > > > > on the wall in the background > > > > > > of a few > > > > > > photos, and his picture is the same size as and > > > > > > right next to that of > > > > > > Maharishi. > > > > > > > > > > He is Maharishi's nephew, and AFAIK, he's the head > > > > > cheese over there. > > > > > > > > I get a strange vibe from that dude! > > > > > > Me, too. I wouldn't be surprised if that's where > > > all the money was going. > > > > OTher than the schools, students and stuff shown in the > > pictures, you mean? Not to mention the stuff that was > > partly built than torn down by court order? Etc? > > Enron had nice buildings, too. > > Mark my words, within two years of Maharishi's > death, less than 10% of the estimated worth of > the TM movement will be able to be found. The > rest will be mysteriously "missing." And the > True Believers will believe it "transcended." :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Yusaf Isa allegedly lived to a ripe old age and is buried at Srinagar in Kashmir, in the middle of the old town of Anzimar, in the Khanyar quarter. There was a really interesting documentary:- www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die- interview.shtml Another useful link is:- http://www.tombofjesus.com/ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 2/9/06 12:44 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > wrote: > >> > >> Jesus is said to have travelled to India mainly along the 'Hippie > >> trail', but perhaps by boat on an earlier occasion - apparently it > >> was relatively easy to travel there by this method in those days. > >> 'Jesus Lived in India' also lights on some other interesting > >> subjects too, namely the place of the Turin Shroud in the story of > >> Jesus (the contention is that it is authentic, but that because it > >> seems to prove Jesus was still alive when wrapped in the shroud, > > it > >> has been deemed a fake - the author has supplied a lot of > > compelling > >> evidence). Also the topic of the 'Promised Land' is raised, > > offering > >> Kashmir as the location of at least some of the 'Lost Tribes'. > > > > > > > > > > When I was in Kashmir in '81 or '82 (can't remember the exact year) > > on a TM month-long course, the locals there claimed that Jesus not > > only visited Kashmir but that he was buried there. > > So how and where do they believe he died? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
The relationship between the threads on Jesus and MMY concern where they learned their 'teaching'. So it is a misperception if 'It seems that critical thinking is being applied very unevenly'. Perhaps instead of indulging this viewpoint, you might return some useful information regarding the learning years of either or both of these men? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Interesting that at the same time as people on this board try to manufacture a > big scandal about MMY's education and sleep patterns, and here denounce > the "myth" that has grown up about such things, another thread seriously > discusses the myth that Jesus traveled to India (or name the country of > choice) as it it were probably true. It seems that critical thinking is being > applied very unevenly. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > ? WHo says he did or did not? How would they know? > > > > Close proximity, maybe snoring. > > > > It's really just one of many many myths fostered by uncritical > > acceptance. What's interesting to me is the pattern of accepting > > claims as automatically true. Bottom line is charlatans are out there > > and both have the same name: "teacher". > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
I didn't give very much attention to the website where I found the reference to MMY's education at Allahabad. As you know I am tracking historical data on Guru Dev and MMY. But I admit I was tickled by the reference to 'precisely because his followers are not critical, he gets away with a host of absurdities'. It is definitely true that many have accepted what MMY said on face value. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > www.dci.dk/en/mtrl/tm.html > > > > 'The allegation that Maharishi is a scientist likewise forms part of > > the legend that TM has built up around him. He only studied for one > or > > at the most two semesters at the Allahabad University, and never took > > any exams. He is in all respects self-taught, which is rather obvious > > for any critical reader of his writings. But precisely because his > > followers are not critical, he gets away with a host of absurdities.' > > > > Er, did you find the rest of the article accurate? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Yes, funny can be compelling and cathartic too. I remember Robert Crumb gave a very perceptive picture of the 'boy guru' Maharaj Ji, and offered up some interesting asides on meditation through Mr. Natural. But, as yet, I have not encountered an underground artist who has taken the material referred to in 'Jesus Lived In India' and given it a treatment. The central theme of 'Jesus Lived in India' is the claim that Jesus did not die on the cross, but actually lived to a grand old age. The really significant element of this thinking is that it challenges the interpretation of Christianity offered up by Paul i.e. the belief system built around the suffering of Christ, his death and resurrection. If he did not die on the cross, but healed up and travelled to where he would not be persecuted, then his teachings take on very different feel. The last two thousand years have been permeated by Paul's version of Jesus's teachings, perhaps a re- evaluation of the history just might change the way Jesus's teachings are taught. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Jesus is said to have travelled to India mainly along the 'Hippie > > trail', but perhaps by boat on an earlier occasion - apparently it > > was relatively easy to travel there by this method in those days. > > 'Jesus Lived in India' also lights on some other interesting > > subjects too, namely the place of the Turin Shroud in the story of > > Jesus (the contention is that it is authentic, but that because it > > seems to prove Jesus was still alive when wrapped in the shroud, > > it has been deemed a fake - the author has supplied a lot of > > compelling evidence). Also the topic of the 'Promised Land' is > > raised, offering Kashmir as the location of at least some of > > the 'Lost Tribes'. > > > > Also related to the story of Jesus is the legendary assertion that > > Jesus visited England with his uncle, who came here on business. > > He is supposed to have landed at what is now called St. Michaels > > Mount, near Penzance in Cornwall and travelled up to Glastonbury > > (no, not to the festival - it has not been going THAT long). > > All of these trips are fascinating. I live in the > middle of a hotbed of them, the south of France, which > just teems with Magdalene sects and Jesus-was-here sects > and even sects within larger sects, like the ones one > finds in the Catholic Church. But there are two elements > to almost all of them that I find off-putting. > > If you feel out the "vibe" surrounding most of these > trips, most of the time you'll feel two things. The > first is "We know the truth and no one else does." > The second is "We're special because we know the > truth and no one else does." > > That's one reason I keep recommending Christopher Moore's > "Lamb." It has no agenda, other than exploring the > story of Christ in a new way, and enabling people to > actually laugh along the Way. It's fiction, but very > well-researched fiction, based on studying many of > the books that have been mentioned here in this thread, > and better, on studying the core texts of Buddhism, > Taoism, and Hinduism. Chris put in a couple of years > of travel and study writing it. > > But at the end, it's FUNNY. It is a marvelous explor- > ation of what Christ's life might have been like, but > with absolutely NONE of that "We know the truth and > are really, really *special* because we know it" vibe. > I find that to be a remarkable achievement. Would > that more spiritual books could achieve it. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Jesus is said to have travelled to India mainly along the 'Hippie trail', but perhaps by boat on an earlier occasion - apparently it was relatively easy to travel there by this method in those days. 'Jesus Lived in India' also lights on some other interesting subjects too, namely the place of the Turin Shroud in the story of Jesus (the contention is that it is authentic, but that because it seems to prove Jesus was still alive when wrapped in the shroud, it has been deemed a fake - the author has supplied a lot of compelling evidence). Also the topic of the 'Promised Land' is raised, offering Kashmir as the location of at least some of the 'Lost Tribes'. Also related to the story of Jesus is the legendary assertion that Jesus visited England with his uncle, who came here on business. He is supposed to have landed at what is now called St. Michaels Mount, near Penzance in Cornwall and travelled up to Glastonbury (no, not to the festival - it has not been going THAT long). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Holger Kersten's most interesting book 'Jesus Lived In India' > > about 'His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion' seems to > > suggest that Jesus was heavilly influenced by Buddhist teachings > and > > that he might have spent some of his formative years in India. > > > Did he go via Mexico? Or by land via Iraq, Pakistan, etc.? > > 'Cause the Mormons believe he went to the Americas... > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > I did TM for 30 years solely because I had heard that MMY didn't > > sleep much. > > > Before that, I was a Christian. But when I heard that Jesus > wasn't > > even a > > > college graduate, that was the end of it for me. > > > > > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > wrote: > > > > > > > > That loud noise you hear in the background is the sound of > > illusions > > > > crashing. > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2006, at 10:39 AM, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually I believe it was Rick who quoted an old secretary > who > > said > > > > > he slept normal hours (i.e. 6-8 hours a night). > > > > > > > > > > Several people on the list were quite upset by that. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Jesus is said to have travelled to India mainly along the 'Hippie trail', but perhaps on an earlier occasion also by boat. The 'Jesus Lived in India' also lights on some other interesting subjects too, namely the place of the Turin Shroud in the story of Jesus (that it is authentic, but that because it seems to prove Jesus was still alive when wrapped in the shroud, it has been deemed a fake - the author has supplied a lot of compelling evidence). Also the topic of the 'Promised Land' is raised, offering Kashmir as the location of at least some of the lost 'tribes'. Not in Holger Kersten's book, but nevertheless related to the story of Jesus, is the legendary assertion that Jesus visited England with his uncle, who came here on business. He is supposed to have landed at what is now called St. Michaels Mount, near Penzance in Cornwall and travelled up to Glastonbury (no, not to the festival - it has not been going THAT long). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Holger Kersten's most interesting book 'Jesus Lived In India' > > about 'His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion' seems to > > suggest that Jesus was heavilly influenced by Buddhist teachings > and > > that he might have spent some of his formative years in India. > > > Did he go via Mexico? Or by land via Iraq, Pakistan, etc.? > > 'Cause the Mormons believe he went to the Americas... > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > I did TM for 30 years solely because I had heard that MMY didn't > > sleep much. > > > Before that, I was a Christian. But when I heard that Jesus > wasn't > > even a > > > college graduate, that was the end of it for me. > > > > > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > wrote: > > > > > > > > That loud noise you hear in the background is the sound of > > illusions > > > > crashing. > > > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2006, at 10:39 AM, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually I believe it was Rick who quoted an old secretary > who > > said > > > > > he slept normal hours (i.e. 6-8 hours a night). > > > > > > > > > > Several people on the list were quite upset by that. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
Holger Kersten's most interesting book 'Jesus Lived In India' about 'His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion' seems to suggest that Jesus was heavilly influenced by Buddhist teachings and that he might have spent some of his formative years in India. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I did TM for 30 years solely because I had heard that MMY didn't sleep much. > Before that, I was a Christian. But when I heard that Jesus wasn't even a > college graduate, that was the end of it for me. > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > > > That loud noise you hear in the background is the sound of illusions > > crashing. > > > > Sal > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2006, at 10:39 AM, Vaj wrote: > > > > > Actually I believe it was Rick who quoted an old secretary who said > > > he slept normal hours (i.e. 6-8 hours a night). > > > > > > Several people on the list were quite upset by that. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: How long was MMY at university?
All that's been turned up so far is that he is said to have resided in Allahabad University's Ganganath Jha Hostel, and that he was registered under the name M.C.Srivastava http://www.allduniv.edu/hostels/gnjha/gnjha_alumni.htm or if there is a problem with the link try http://web.archive.org/web/20050315113640/http://www.allduniv.edu/host els/gnjha/gnjha_alumni.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I had heard that Maharishi's assistants worked in two > or three shifts to keep up with his longer days. Is there > anyone you could ask about this, Rick? Seems a simple > question to resolve. Same with his university history. Seems > someone could get Allahabad University to say what > his history was there. > > --- Rick Archer wrote: > > > > [MMY[ always stayed up very late, usually having dinner around midnight and > > then working into the night, and I occasionally saw him pull all- nighters. > > But most days, he wouldn't emerge until afternoon or even evening, so he may > > well have been sleeping 'till noon. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] How long was MMY at university?
www.dci.dk/en/mtrl/tm.html 'The allegation that Maharishi is a scientist likewise forms part of the legend that TM has built up around him. He only studied for one or at the most two semesters at the Allahabad University, and never took any exams. He is in all respects self-taught, which is rather obvious for any critical reader of his writings. But precisely because his followers are not critical, he gets away with a host of absurdities.' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: Discussion on GD
I tend to agree with you. Guru Dev was definitely up for a joke - listen to the satsangs, his audience are almost wetting themselves. I played the longer one to a Hindi-speaking Indian friend, she just kept guffawing and ho-ho-ing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Comments interleaved below. > > -- Premanand Paul Mason wrote: > > > > The Hindi word 'malamuutra' seems to mean mal+muutra i.e. 'excrement > > and urine'. That is to say, Guru Dev was saying that for nine months > > he was confined in his own filth. Neither translator thinks to > > include mention of this remark. > > I believe the umbilical cord delivers nutrients and > carries away wastes, does it not? Fetuses surely do > not void in utero. > > > > "I lived in the company of you people for nine months. What was my > > > condition at that time? It was reverse. I was tightly bounded from > > > all sides and there were sufferings beyond limits. In this > > > troublesome way I had passed nine months. Those days, I still > > > remember. This is the reason why I do not have the least desire to > > be in the company of women folk." TSTaaGS > > Sounds like a joke. Harsh humor, to be sure, but a joke nonetheless. > Otherwise, I'm to believe that someone I'm told was very compassionate > is holding a grudge against all womankind for having to be born > of woman? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Curiously, amongst the old Indian laws are verses which are not really laws at all, verses which have just slipped into common parlance. I quote MMY:- Many people say, 'I am truthful and that's why people dislike me because I say something on their face.' Truth is not characterized by whips. If you say a truth, fine that the truth is there, but it should have some sweetness to it. Manu said - Manu, the first law-giver to human race - Manu he said, about speech he said Satyam bruyaat, priyam bruyat, na bruyat satyam apriyam' - 'Speak the truth, speak that is sweet, don't speak the truth that is not sweet.' Not that you can take liberty with truth and massacre the whole field of behaviour. The truth, simple, natural which is supporting life, which is nourishing life. Truth is always life-supporting if it is really truth but it must come from a melted heart and not from a very unconcerned mind.254 This statement is dynamite! Certainly it would not go down in the courts of justice where truths are frequently revealed which are far from sweet. Strangely enough, the Maharishi, had himself told only half the truth about this very verse for it continues with the words: 'Priyam cha na anritam pruuyaat esah dharmah sanatanah.' In the Penguin Classic version of The Laws of Manu the verse (in its entirety) is translated with an altogether different emphasis: A man should tell the truth and speak with kindness; he should not tell the truth unkindly nor utter lies out of kindness. This is a constant duty.255 Furthermore the translators ascribe this work (known variously as Manu, Manusmritti or Manu Samhita) to no one author: The Laws of Manu, like all other works we have from the ancient period of India, was composed by members of the social class (varna) called Brahmins or 'Priests'. Indeed, the text is not only by priests but to a large extent for priests. 256 Excerpt from chapter 19 of 'The Maharishi' © Paul Mason 2005 http://www.paulmason.info/themaharishi/mmych19.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think he was referring to things like the Manu Smriti, which is full of > brutal punishments for minor crimes. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] How do we know when something 'supernatural' is going on?
Some years back I visited India and spent some time with Dandi Swami Narayanand Saraswati, a disciple of Guru Dev, a gurubrother of MMY. I wrote up some of and many other meetings in 'Mala - A String of Unexpected Meeting'. This swami was in a state of 'maun' (a vow of silence) but I nevertheless asked his permission to take to teaching meditation. He answered this question with friendly facial expressions and easy gestures though some questions he needed his board on which he chalked up the answers. Now even though he was in silence, when I left him and met with a baba in the jungle, some distance away, perhaps about a mile, the baba seemed already to know of my request to Dandi Swami Narayanand. How did he do that? Exerpt from 'Mala - A String of Unexpected Meeting' at:- http://www.paulmason.info/mala/malaweb.htm 'Swami Ji, should I continue my meditations?' He answers with an affirmative roll of his head. This surprises me for I half expect him to advise me to do perform some different practice instead. On a previous visit to India I met with another monk of Jyotir Math monastery who appeared quite offish about the need for inner meditation, saying 'Here it not necessary to meditate.' Also when I sat for meditation in Trottacacharya Gupha, a cave near to the monastery, a monk there also voiced certain discouragement. 'I also wish to teach meditation, is this alright?' Again the swami offers a very positive reaction. In his graceful responses to my earnest enquiries I derive incredible strength and support for my spiritual aspirations. My self-assurance grows by the moment. As I sit glowing with the satisfaction I have gained by the dandi swami's permission and approval, the memory of my recent hands-on healing treatment springs to mind. Without hesitation I decide to ask his opinion about such practices. 'Recently I have been given Reiki,' I explain. 'I would like to show you what happened.' I lay myself down prone on the trodden earth before him and proceed to re-enact some of the more sensational aspects of the session, the twists, turns, jerks and sudden bursts of rapid deep breathing. As I replay the dramatic highlights of the session he responds with nods, smiles and rolls his head from side to side. When I have finished my re-enactment he demonstrates for me a breathing exercise, indicating that it will be useful for me to practice. Drawing myself up, I practice by his example and then remain sitting cross-legged before him, assuming the role of pupil. I have observed that gurus seem always to seat themselves higher than their visitors do, I had thought it customary for them to do so. By gestures the swami makes it obvious that he does not wish for me to remain seated at his feet, but that I should return to my place beside him on the rug he has laid for me there. I return without delay. I feel no desire to speak further, since, as he has answered my questions, there is nothing better to do other than sit in the quietness and enjoy the gift of his graceful smiling companionship. After some long time spent enjoying blissful moments with the Swami Ji I notice his manner subtly alters and he now raises his strong eyebrows and for a moment the bright red tilak and horizontal lines of sandalwood that grace his brow almost resemble a frown. Springing to his feet he takes up a piece of cloth and, with skilful slight of hand worthy of a seasoned conjurer, he deftly uses it to cover and gather up my offerings. Whereupon, a thwarted bandit monkey scampers away to regain the cover of the jungle, it's schemes foiled again. 'What should I do next?' I ask the swami, hoping for some last spiritual guidance before leaving him. Without a moment's hesitation he takes up his chalkboard and writes in clear sweeping motions. My eyes light on three words in particular: - 'Snan Lata Kumbh' - snan lata I take to refer to bathing, kumbh, I vaguely recall as meaning a pot. He therefore appears to be advising me to undertake some sort of ritual bath. Perhaps he is advising me to become an ascetic? 'Where must I go?' I ask of him. 'Prayag,' he writes. Prayag I know is the term for the meeting of two rivers as found in local placenames such as Devaprayag and Rudraprayag, which I have visited. It is also the ancient name for the city of Allahabad. 'Allahabad?' I query. He grins almost conspiratorially, as if divulging a great secret. 'Brahma Nivas, Alopi Bhag,' he writes. It is clear now, for the name of the monastery and its address are contained in an area of my memory, which has suddenly, became activated. Swami Narayanand is inviting me to go to the monastery in Allahabad 'Shankaracharya Ashram!' I marvel. He smiles, waggles his head and nods again, crinkling his eyes, squeezing rays of his inner light to scatter about him. I ask him when I should travel to Allahabad. This time he uses no chalkboard, only he uses his eyes and simple hand g
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Q. How does one distinguish apparently supernatural phenomena from mere misperception or worse, another's attempt to mislead? A. By attempting to separate my suggestibility from the actuality of any given situation. It usually works for me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > I was posing a question... originally about the duration > > of 'enlightenment' - my point was that everything must be assumed > to > > be impermanent (temporary) until proved otherwise. I consider that > > defining enlightenment as permanent has no sound basis. On the > other > > hand, I think it quite reasonable to believe at least some of the > > various claims of those who claim to have experienced > > an 'enlightened' state, albeit briefly. > > As to supernatural powers and perceptions, I don't doubt that > > supernatural phenomena has occurred within the context of my own > > existence, many times, however, this does not persuade me that all > > claims to supernatural phenomena are honest or legitimate. > > Of course not. But how do you decide which are and > which aren't? > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > A flying monkey and a shape shifting king of Lanka are quite > > > > beautiful images to be found in the Ramayana. So too is the idea > > > > that supernatural weapons might be used in warfare, in the > place > > of > > > > conventional and crude weaponry, to be found in the > Bhagavadgita. > > > > But in the 21st century we tend to treat such tales as > > makebelieve. > > > > If talking animals do not exist, nor astral weapons, then why > > > > should one choose to accept the descriptions of the powers of > > > > rishis or maharshis as all factual? > > > > > > FWIW, there are segments of the U.S. defense and > > > intelligence communities that have at times vigorously > > > pursued "supernatural" (or "paranormal") approaches > > > to neutralizing the enemy (including "remote viewing"). > > > The Soviets also had such programs; whether Russia > > > still does, I'm not sure. Whether the U.S. still does, > > > I'm also not sure. > > > > > > At any rate, are you quite sure that "total awareness" > > > would not reveal that some of these apparently make- > > > believe tales are to be understood on something other > > > than the literal level? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It is of note that rather than offering reasoned argument, > > you > > > > resort > > > > > > to making a personal attack. You make this slight, > concerning > > > > your > > > > > > perception of my intelligence, but do not offer any cogent > > > > argument > > > > > > as to why one ought to believe what is contained in 'Vedic > > > > > > literature' when, as I pointed out, it is so 'full of > ghastly > > > > wars, > > > > > > vile punishments for minor crimes, talking animals and > > wizardry > > > > too'. > > > > > > > > > > Well, he did, actually: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The centerpiece of Vedic culture is total awareness -- if > > you > > > > > > > seek that, the ugliness you refer to goes away: i.e., > stay > > > > tuned > > > > > > > for the Sat Yuga. > > > > > > > > > > If you don't think this is "cogent," what are your > > > > > reasons? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
I was posing a question... originally about the duration of 'enlightenment' - my point was that everything must be assumed to be impermanent (temporary) until proved otherwise. I consider that defining enlightenment as permanent has no sound basis. On the other hand, I think it quite reasonable to believe at least some of the various claims of those who claim to have experienced an 'enlightened' state, albeit briefly. As to supernatural powers and perceptions, I don't doubt that supernatural phenomena has occurred within the context of my own existence, many times, however, this does not persuade me that all claims to supernatural phenomena are honest or legitimate. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > A flying monkey and a shape shifting king of Lanka are quite > > beautiful images to be found in the Ramayana. So too is the idea > > that supernatural weapons might be used in warfare, in the place of > > conventional and crude weaponry, to be found in the Bhagavadgita. > > But in the 21st century we tend to treat such tales as makebelieve. > > If talking animals do not exist, nor astral weapons, then why > > should one choose to accept the descriptions of the powers of > > rishis or maharshis as all factual? > > FWIW, there are segments of the U.S. defense and > intelligence communities that have at times vigorously > pursued "supernatural" (or "paranormal") approaches > to neutralizing the enemy (including "remote viewing"). > The Soviets also had such programs; whether Russia > still does, I'm not sure. Whether the U.S. still does, > I'm also not sure. > > At any rate, are you quite sure that "total awareness" > would not reveal that some of these apparently make- > believe tales are to be understood on something other > than the literal level? > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > It is of note that rather than offering reasoned argument, you > > resort > > > > to making a personal attack. You make this slight, concerning > > your > > > > perception of my intelligence, but do not offer any cogent > > argument > > > > as to why one ought to believe what is contained in 'Vedic > > > > literature' when, as I pointed out, it is so 'full of ghastly > > wars, > > > > vile punishments for minor crimes, talking animals and wizardry > > too'. > > > > > > Well, he did, actually: > > > > > > > > > > > The centerpiece of Vedic culture is total awareness -- if you > > > > > seek that, the ugliness you refer to goes away: i.e., stay > > tuned > > > > > for the Sat Yuga. > > > > > > If you don't think this is "cogent," what are your > > > reasons? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
A flying monkey and a shape shifting king of Lanka are quite beautiful images to be found in the Ramayana. So too is the idea that supernatural weapons might be used in warfare, in the place of conventional and crude weaponry, to be found in the Bhagavadgita. But in the 21st century we tend to treat such tales as makebelieve. If talking animals do not exist, nor astral weapons, then why should one choose to accept the descriptions of the powers of rishis or maharshis as all factual? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > It is of note that rather than offering reasoned argument, you resort > > to making a personal attack. You make this slight, concerning your > > perception of my intelligence, but do not offer any cogent argument > > as to why one ought to believe what is contained in 'Vedic > > literature' when, as I pointed out, it is so 'full of ghastly wars, > > vile punishments for minor crimes, talking animals and wizardry too'. > > Well, he did, actually: > > > > > The centerpiece of Vedic culture is total awareness -- if you > > > seek that, the ugliness you refer to goes away: i.e., stay tuned > > > for the Sat Yuga. > > If you don't think this is "cogent," what are your > reasons? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: Discussion on GD
Thinking further on Guru Dev's biography, it occurs to me that it would be a good project to make an accurate translation of the Hindi text, or at least those quotations of Guru Dev contained within the text. I say this as I note that neither of the translaters have properly translated the phrase 'isa prakaara malamuutra ke bhaa.NDa meM nau mahiine biita gaye' The Hindi word 'malamuutra' seems to mean mal+muutra i.e. 'excrement and urine'. That is to say, Guru Dev was saying that for nine months he was confined in his own filth. Neither translator thinks to include mention of this remark. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > RE: Guru Dev's nine months upside down in a woman > > There are two published translations of the Hindi biography of Guru > Dev. The most widely available is 'The Whole Thing The Real Thing' > which is a 'transcreation' (not necessarilly a precise translation) > into English of material previously only available in Hindi. Raj > Varma (MMY's uncle) later published 'Strange Facts about a Great > Saint' in which he offered a closer translation of many of the > stories of Guru Dev. The tale referring to the time spent in the womb > is a case in point, comparison of the two texts is revealing:- > > "I spent nine months in intimate contact with you womenfolk. How > shabbily was I treated? Hung upside down in solitary confinement in a > dark, damp, dingy cell - I can never forget those days. That is the > reason why I have lost all desire for your company." TWTTRT > > "I lived in the company of you people for nine months. What was my > condition at that time? It was reverse. I was tightly bounded from > all sides and there were sufferings beyond limits. In this > troublesome way I had passed nine months. Those days, I still > remember. This is the reason why I do not have the least desire to be > in the company of women folk." TSTaaGS > > Perhaps they appear similar, but Raj's rendering, the more accurate, > is free of the criticism that Guru Dev was treated 'shabbily', which > colours the reading somewhat. For those with Hindi speaking friends, > I offer Guru Dev's actual words, as given in an ashram publication:- > > "main aap logon ke samsarg men nau mahine raha. us samay meri kaisi > dasha thi! ulate tange the, bandhanon men jakadaa tha kashta ka > paravar na tha. is prakar malamutra ke bhanda men nau mahine bit > gaye. ve dina mujhe aaj bhi nahin bhulate. yahii karana hai ki aap > logon ke sampark ki ichchha nahiin karata." > > 'Itrans' version of the Hindi:- > " maiM aapa logoM ke saMsarga meM nau mahiine rahaa . usa samaya > merii kaisii dashaa thii ! ulaTe Ta.Nge the , bandhanoM meM jaka.Daa > thaa kashhTa kaa paaraavaara na thaa . isa prakaara malamuutra ke > bhaa.NDa meM nau mahiine biita gaye . ve dina mujhe aaja bhii nahiiM > bhuulate . yahii kaaraNa hai ki aapa logoM ke samparka kii ichchhaa > nahiiM karataa ." - shrii jyotirshhpiiThoddhaaraka > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > Hi Rick, still have no account on FFL. > > But would like to suggest this. > > > > In the 70s, someone in germ-any brought some stuff from India, which > > was > > "sermons by GD", and printed them. mmy asked him not to do that and > > not to distribute. > > He agreed on that, and later said, he was hugged on the inner level > > by mmy, saying, "this is my realm", (or area or responsibility...) > > > > On two quotes from GD, I would say, he also was limited. > > One was your quote about being nine months upside down in a woman. > > But if we look at it, it`s not the woman`s design. Every woman, if > > she had the choice, would hold the child nine months to her heart. > > As far as I know, that is the design of.. I forgot, really... > > > > 2nd quote was, that he allowed himself to be whorshipped, since the > > vedas accepted that for a teacher. > > This is nice, but for me not adequate for our time. > > Authority is based (for me) either on love or > > competence. Not written somewhere > > > > As I wrote to Premanand: > > If enlightenment is a "science", than for sure we are here to > > unfold it, even improve it. > > like math or space science, or whatever > > > > cheers > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.y
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: Discussion on GD
RE: Guru Dev's nine months upside down in a woman There are two published translations of the Hindi biography of Guru Dev. The most widely available is 'The Whole Thing The Real Thing' which is a 'transcreation' (not necessarilly a precise translation) into English of material previously only available in Hindi. Raj Varma (MMY's uncle) later published 'Strange Facts about a Great Saint' in which he offered a closer translation of many of the stories of Guru Dev. The tale referring to the time spent in the womb is a case in point, comparison of the two texts is revealing:- "I spent nine months in intimate contact with you womenfolk. How shabbily was I treated? Hung upside down in solitary confinement in a dark, damp, dingy cell - I can never forget those days. That is the reason why I have lost all desire for your company." TWTTRT "I lived in the company of you people for nine months. What was my condition at that time? It was reverse. I was tightly bounded from all sides and there were sufferings beyond limits. In this troublesome way I had passed nine months. Those days, I still remember. This is the reason why I do not have the least desire to be in the company of women folk." TSTaaGS Perhaps they appear similar, but Raj's rendering, the more accurate, is free of the criticism that Guru Dev was treated 'shabbily', which colours the reading somewhat. For those with Hindi speaking friends, I offer Guru Dev's actual words, as given in an ashram publication:- "main aap logon ke samsarg men nau mahine raha. us samay meri kaisi dasha thi! ulate tange the, bandhanon men jakadaa tha kashta ka paravar na tha. is prakar malamutra ke bhanda men nau mahine bit gaye. ve dina mujhe aaj bhi nahin bhulate. yahii karana hai ki aap logon ke sampark ki ichchha nahiin karata." 'Itrans' version of the Hindi:- " maiM aapa logoM ke saMsarga meM nau mahiine rahaa . usa samaya merii kaisii dashaa thii ! ulaTe Ta.Nge the , bandhanoM meM jaka.Daa thaa kashhTa kaa paaraavaara na thaa . isa prakaara malamuutra ke bhaa.NDa meM nau mahiine biita gaye . ve dina mujhe aaja bhii nahiiM bhuulate . yahii kaaraNa hai ki aapa logoM ke samparka kii ichchhaa nahiiM karataa ." - shrii jyotirshhpiiThoddhaaraka --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Rick, still have no account on FFL. > But would like to suggest this. > > In the 70s, someone in germ-any brought some stuff from India, which > was > "sermons by GD", and printed them. mmy asked him not to do that and > not to distribute. > He agreed on that, and later said, he was hugged on the inner level > by mmy, saying, "this is my realm", (or area or responsibility...) > > On two quotes from GD, I would say, he also was limited. > One was your quote about being nine months upside down in a woman. > But if we look at it, it`s not the woman`s design. Every woman, if > she had the choice, would hold the child nine months to her heart. > As far as I know, that is the design of.. I forgot, really... > > 2nd quote was, that he allowed himself to be whorshipped, since the > vedas accepted that for a teacher. > This is nice, but for me not adequate for our time. > Authority is based (for me) either on love or > competence. Not written somewhere > > As I wrote to Premanand: > If enlightenment is a "science", than for sure we are here to > unfold it, even improve it. > like math or space science, or whatever > > cheers > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: Discussion on GD
RE: Guru Dev's nine months upside down in a woman There are two published translations of the Hindi biography of Guru Dev. The most widely available is 'The Whole Thing The Real Thing' which is a 'transcreation' (not necessarilly a precise translation) into English of material previously only available in Hindi. Raj Varma (MMY's uncle) later published 'Strange Facts about a Great Saint' in which he offered a closer translation of many of the stories of Guru Dev. The tale referring to the time spent in the womb is a case in point, comparison of the two texts is revealing:- "I spent nine months in intimate contact with you womenfolk. How shabbily was I treated? Hung upside down in solitary confinement in a dark, damp, dingy cell - I can never forget those days. That is the reason why I have lost all desire for your company." TWTTRT "I lived in the company of you people for nine months. What was my condition at that time? It was reverse. I was tightly bounded from all sides and there were sufferings beyond limits. In this troublesome way I had passed nine months. Those days, I still remember. This is the reason why I do not have the least desire to be in the company of women folk." TSTaaGS Perhaps they appear similar, but Raj's rendering, the more accurate, is free of the criticism that he was treated 'shabbily' which colours the reading somewhat. For those with Hindi speaking friends, I offer Guru Dev's actual words, as given in an ashram publication:- "main aap logon ke samsarg men nau mahine raha. us samay meri kaisi dasha thi! ulate yange the, bandhanon men jakadaa tha kashta ka paravar na tha. is prakar malamutra ke bhanda men nau mahine bit gaye. ve dina mujhe aaj bhi nahin bhulate. yahii karana hai ki aap logon ke sampark ki ichchha nahiin karata." 'Itrans' version of the Hindi:- " maiM aapa logoM ke saMsarga meM nau mahiine rahaa . usa samaya merii kaisii dashaa thii ! ulaTe Ta.Nge the , bandhanoM meM jaka.Daa thaa kashhTa kaa paaraavaara na thaa . isa prakaara malamuutra ke bhaa.NDa meM nau mahiine biita gaye . ve dina mujhe aaja bhii nahiiM bhuulate . yahii kaaraNa hai ki aapa logoM ke samparka kii ichchhaa nahiiM karataa ." - shrii jyotirshhpiiThoddhaaraka --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Rick, still have no account on FFL. > But would like to suggest this. > > In the 70s, someone in germ-any brought some stuff from India, which > was > "sermons by GD", and printed them. mmy asked him not to do that and > not to distribute. > He agreed on that, and later said, he was hugged on the inner level > by mmy, saying, "this is my realm", (or area or responsibility...) > > On two quotes from GD, I would say, he also was limited. > One was your quote about being nine months upside down in a woman. > But if we look at it, it`s not the woman`s design. Every woman, if > she had the choice, would hold the child nine months to her heart. > As far as I know, that is the design of.. I forgot, really... > > 2nd quote was, that he allowed himself to be whorshipped, since the > vedas accepted that for a teacher. > This is nice, but for me not adequate for our time. > Authority is based (for me) either on love or > competence. Not written somewhere > > As I wrote to Premanand: > If enlightenment is a "science", than for sure we are here to > unfold it, even improve it. > like math or space science, or whatever > > cheers > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: Discussion on GD
It amazes me that it is said that MMY inhibited the free flow of
publication of Guru Dev's 'sermons'. After all, it was he who put
together a book of quotations for publication ('Amrit Kana') and also
announced:-
"I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that
his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and
corner of our country and abroad."
http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm
Anyone got any of these "sermons by GD"?
If uneasy about sharing them publicly please email on the side.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Hi Rick, still have no account on FFL.
> But would like to suggest this.
>
> In the 70s, someone in germ-any brought some stuff from India, which
> was
> "sermons by GD", and printed them. mmy asked him not to do that and
> not to distribute.
> He agreed on that, and later said, he was hugged on the inner level
> by mmy, saying, "this is my realm", (or area or responsibility...)
>
> On two quotes from GD, I would say, he also was limited.
> One was your quote about being nine months upside down in a woman.
> But if we look at it, it`s not the woman`s design. Every woman, if
> she had the choice, would hold the child nine months to her heart.
> As far as I know, that is the design of.. I forgot, really...
>
> 2nd quote was, that he allowed himself to be whorshipped, since the
> vedas accepted that for a teacher.
> This is nice, but for me not adequate for our time.
> Authority is based (for me) either on love or
> competence. Not written somewhere
>
> As I wrote to Premanand:
> If enlightenment is a "science", than for sure we are here to
> unfold it, even improve it.
> like math or space science, or whatever
>
> cheers
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Evaluating spiritual topics is an open domain here where anyone, regardless of standing, may profer opinion. It is of note that rather than offering reasoned argument, you resort to making a personal attack. You make this slight, concerning your perception of my intelligence, but do not offer any cogent argument as to why one ought to believe what is contained in 'Vedic literature' when, as I pointed out, it is so 'full of ghastly wars, vile punishments for minor crimes, talking animals and wizardry too'. I suggest that it is you that puts the gutter-press content into FFL, through your constant postings from media trawls and by your rudeness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > 'Vedic literature' is full of ghastly wars, vile punishments for > > minor crimes, talking animals and wizardry too. > > > > ** > > You wrote a book about a great saint, so you think you have standing > to evaluate spiritual topics, but you write from a level of > intelligence that does not qualify you to be more than a gossip > columnist at a tabloid. > > The centerpiece of Vedic culture is total awareness -- if you seek > that, the ugliness you refer to goes away: i.e., stay tuned for the > Sat Yuga. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Possibly, to imagine that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' is > > > roughly > > > > the same as believing in the 'blue-blood' of royals and their > > > > intimate connection with God. But, I reckon most people have > > > > experienced 'enlightenment', if only for a few minutes. > Probably > > MMY > > > > has experienced enlightenment too, from time-to-time. > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > It's not unusual for people outside the TM movement to > > > use "enlightenment" or "Cosmic consciousness" to mean the > > experience > > > of total awareness for a limited period. These terms in TMO use > > mean > > > that unlimited awareness is lived 24/7 and you can't fall out of > > > enlightenment or CC. Other than this definitional issue, if you > are > > > making the claim that nobody could possibly be living totality, > you > > > are entitled to make any such ignorant claim that you want, but > > there > > > is a whole tradition of Vedic literature describing those who do > > live > > > totality. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
But after becoming Shankaracharya he relaxed that standpoint about not allowing women around. You only have to look at the filmstock of him speaking live, to see there were loads of women attending his lecture. I have the contact details of an elderly lady who claims to be his first woman disciple, but unfortuanately she speaks neither English nor Norwegian. It is recorded that Guru Dev put a succession of teachers to the test, before finding a teacher he could trust. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > To recapitulate, from my observation, it is often the more > spiritually > > inclined who get involved in the teachings of the church or in the > > thinking of a particular 'spiritual' teacher. Having gotten > involved, > > they soon find there are certain beliefs about infallability to > deal > > with, and I think that is to found in most religions and in > many 'guru' > > teachings. Thus the spiritual seeker, as a step on his/her > journey, in > > order to become a part of a group, is frequently asked to buy into > the > > infallibility of someone. > > Outside of these areas, the issue of infallibility is less > prevalent. > > But personally, I don't believe for a minute that it is either > > spiritual or necessary to believe in a teacher's infallibility. > Quite > > the opposite in fact. It is a well-known tradition that one should > test > > one's teacher rather than have blind allegance. > > I agree with you. To raise critical questions is a good thing - even > when it comes to Guru Dev - who is my absolute favorite. I love his > quotations. He was very strict - but he was true to his principles. > He choosed his own way - not compromising - . I have to respect him > for that - even as a woman I would not have been allowed to come > near him at all. > Ingegerd > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Ironically, it is often the more spiritual who become > > > > enveloped in this belief of another's infallibility. > > > > > > I can't agree with this, because that would imply a > > > definition of "spiritual" as a person who is actively > > > seeking to believe in their teacher's infallibility. > > > I don't see that as even a *positive* thing, much > > > less "spiritual." > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
'Vedic literature' is full of ghastly wars, vile punishments for minor crimes, talking animals and wizardry too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Possibly, to imagine that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' is > roughly > > the same as believing in the 'blue-blood' of royals and their > > intimate connection with God. But, I reckon most people have > > experienced 'enlightenment', if only for a few minutes. Probably MMY > > has experienced enlightenment too, from time-to-time. > > > > * > > It's not unusual for people outside the TM movement to > use "enlightenment" or "Cosmic consciousness" to mean the experience > of total awareness for a limited period. These terms in TMO use mean > that unlimited awareness is lived 24/7 and you can't fall out of > enlightenment or CC. Other than this definitional issue, if you are > making the claim that nobody could possibly be living totality, you > are entitled to make any such ignorant claim that you want, but there > is a whole tradition of Vedic literature describing those who do live > totality. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
I replied to this message earlier but somehow the message appears to have become lost. When Guru Dev became Shankaracharya he relaxed his habit of keeping his distance of women. In fact, if you look at the filmstock of him giving satsang it is clear there are many women present. I have the details of an elderly lady who claims to be Guru Dev's first female devotee. However, unfortunately she speaks neither English nor Norwegian. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > To recapitulate, from my observation, it is often the more > spiritually > > inclined who get involved in the teachings of the church or in the > > thinking of a particular 'spiritual' teacher. Having gotten > involved, > > they soon find there are certain beliefs about infallability to > deal > > with, and I think that is to found in most religions and in > many 'guru' > > teachings. Thus the spiritual seeker, as a step on his/her > journey, in > > order to become a part of a group, is frequently asked to buy into > the > > infallibility of someone. > > Outside of these areas, the issue of infallibility is less > prevalent. > > But personally, I don't believe for a minute that it is either > > spiritual or necessary to believe in a teacher's infallibility. > Quite > > the opposite in fact. It is a well-known tradition that one should > test > > one's teacher rather than have blind allegance. > > I agree with you. To raise critical questions is a good thing - even > when it comes to Guru Dev - who is my absolute favorite. I love his > quotations. He was very strict - but he was true to his principles. > He choosed his own way - not compromising - . I have to respect him > for that - even as a woman I would not have been allowed to come > near him at all. > Ingegerd > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > Ironically, it is often the more spiritual who become > > > > enveloped in this belief of another's infallibility. > > > > > > I can't agree with this, because that would imply a > > > definition of "spiritual" as a person who is actively > > > seeking to believe in their teacher's infallibility. > > > I don't see that as even a *positive* thing, much > > > less "spiritual." > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
To recapitulate, from my observation, it is often the more spiritually inclined who get involved in the teachings of the church or in the thinking of a particular 'spiritual' teacher. Having gotten involved, they soon find there are certain beliefs about infallability to deal with, and I think that is to found in most religions and in many 'guru' teachings. Thus the spiritual seeker, as a step on his/her journey, in order to become a part of a group, is frequently asked to buy into the infallibility of someone. Outside of these areas, the issue of infallibility is less prevalent. But personally, I don't believe for a minute that it is either spiritual or necessary to believe in a teacher's infallibility. Quite the opposite in fact. It is a well-known tradition that one should test one's teacher rather than have blind allegance. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > Ironically, it is often the more spiritual who become > > enveloped in this belief of another's infallibility. > > I can't agree with this, because that would imply a > definition of "spiritual" as a person who is actively > seeking to believe in their teacher's infallibility. > I don't see that as even a *positive* thing, much > less "spiritual." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Isn't it just certain individuals trying to take advantage of others' suggestibility. Ironically, it is often the more spiritual who become enveloped in this belief of another's infallibility. I've said it before, I do wonder if some of those who have elected to follow MMY are not more spiritual than he is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Possibly, to imagine that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' > > is roughly the same as believing in the 'blue-blood' of > > royals and their intimate connection with God. > > Or in Papal infallibility. Yet millions of people > believe this stuff. I'm not really sure why...maybe > they have such low self esteem and faith in themselves > that they have to base their hopes on finding someone > to tell them what to do, someone they have convinced > themselves can "do no wrong." > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Possibly, to imagine that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' is roughly the same as believing in the 'blue-blood' of royals and their intimate connection with God. But, I reckon most people have experienced 'enlightenment', if only for a few minutes. Probably MMY has experienced enlightenment too, from time-to-time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
Possibly to imagine that the belief that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' is roughly similar to believing in the 'blue-blood' of royals, and their intimate connection with God. But, I reckon most people have experienced 'enlightenment' temporarilly, if only for a few minutes. Probably MMY has experienced enlightenment too, from time-to- time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.
To imagine that the belief that the enlightened can do no 'wrong' is roughly the same as believing in the 'blue-blood' of royals, and their intimate connection with God. But, I reckon most people have experienced 'enlightenment' temporarilly, if only for a few minutes. Probably MMY has experienced enlightenment too, from time-to-time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Denmark - the Land of Utopia
You mean that this latest fundamentalist, intolerant, war-mongering, reactionary, intolerant protest put you in mind of a man renowned for trying to bring about world peace in our time? Now that is ironic! Perhaps MMY is a closet sympathiser with these people? > With pampleths, saying: "Kill the Democracy" (which gave > me some associations) - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chanakya
Chanakya is also known as Kautilya, For tasters of the Shastras the following is of use:- Indian History Sourcebook: Kautilya: from The Arthashastra, c. 250 BCE http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/india/kautilya1.html#Book%20III,% 20Chapter%2013 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > One who is in search of knowledge should give up the search of > pleasure and the one who is in search of pleasure should give up the > search of knowledge. > > - Chanakya > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Jim you are right, best to stay with trusting direct perception. Imagination can supply images of these suggested ideas but then hypnotists and Messmerists have always relied on suggestibility to have their way. Possibly scientists too sometimes exploit suggestibility too? But meditation, sets a goal, find out what life is like beyond thought! Now this does not involve bothering with suggestions, just direct experience (or as the parlance of TM would have it - beyond experience). There might be areas where I am happy to be at odds with the teachings of TM but not with regards the empowerment bestowed by going beyond thought. That is unquestionable. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > I don't believe the author of stuff about gods dwelling in cows > hairs > > anymore than myths about pixies or elves. Just hand-me-down > folklore, > > good for kids. Actually, whilst we're on this topic, I wonder that > some > > get some kind of arrested development, whereby they hang in with > > childhood fantasy stuff when others move on to deal with the real > > world. Although I have spent much time in India and explored their > > religion and beliefs at length, that research has brought me no > closer > > to believing in a large wodge of inherited cultural wisdom. > > > > Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with you to only trust our > direct perception; building castles in the air provides no shelter. > > On the other hand, if someone were to tell you that your body is > made up of closely packed, magnetically bundled quanta of energy, > resulting in the illusion of a solid object, would you believe that? > > Seems just as fanciful as the stuff you've quoted above, and yet is > the current Western scientific thinking. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
I don't believe the author of stuff about gods dwelling in cows hairs anymore than myths about pixies or elves. Just hand-me-down folklore, good for kids. Actually, whilst we're on this topic, I wonder that some get some kind of arrested development, whereby they hang in with childhood fantasy stuff when others move on to deal with the real world. Although I have spent much time in India and explored their religion and beliefs at length, that research has brought me no closer to believing in a large wodge of inherited cultural wisdom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > this I find particularly curious, that enlightenment can > > apparently occur without necessarilly disabusing an indivual of the > > sometimes fictional content of inherited wisdom. > > > Hi, what are you referring to specifically here? Is it that Guru Dev > says that truth cannot ultimately be found by scientific instruments, > or that the gods dwell within the cow hairs? It is a big statement to > make and I'm curious what led you to that conclusion > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
I don't think enlightenment, which can be experienced by all, and is not necessarilly permanent, since everything is temporary until proved otherwise bestows anything other than bliss. However, a blissful person can enjoy the use of their minds in a way that others who are suffering cannot. Therefore they can summon greater power of thought, and assume greater ability to create effects. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Personally, I tend to think that enlightenment confers inner > > contentment complete with a sense of wonder, sense of purpose and > > more. But on the strength of what I can gather, I am unconvinced > that > > it necessarilly removes the possibility of the enlightened one > living > > his/her enlightenment blissfully ignorant about a great many > things, > > about, ignorant about the truth of the planet's history or the > story > > of creation, ignorant whether this or that storybook figure > actually > > existed or not. Perhaps, and this is dangerous territory perhaps, > but > > just perhaps, enlightenment is no more but no less than living a > > wonderfully drugless high, and does not necessarilly confer any > > higher perceptions beyond those which that individual personality > > can rise to. > > Personally, I wouldn't consider the truth of the > planet's history or the other items you mention as > "higher perceptions" in the sense of the knowledge > that is said to be structured in consciousness. > > I do suspect the individual personality imposes > some limitations on what can be known, but exactly > how those limitations manifest in the enlightened > person is a different and more complicated question, > I think. > > I tend to favor the notion that at least in terms of > relative knowledge, enlightenment confers access on > a "need to know" basis, which would perhaps be determined > on the basis of karma, individual and group or "mass." > In other words, it would be appropriate to the situation. > > Maybe this is also in some sense the case with the > knowledge structured in consciousness, "higher" > knowledge, whatever that may involve. Or maybe full > higher knowledge is accessible to all who are fully > enlightened, but the apparent differences have to do > with individual personality variations in how that > knowledge is understood and expressed intellectually. > > In other words, that there are differences in what > purportedly enlightened individuals believe and > teach--especially in terms of the nature and mechanics > of consciousness--doesn't seem to me *necessarily* to > preclude the possibility that enlightenment does > confer "higher knowledge." > > On the other hand, I'm not at all sure that the answer > to any of this is automatically conferred by > enlightenment. > > I gather you prefer not to comment on this: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have a similar take on this, > > > > > > > > > > But you said you thought Guru Dev's take was "entirely > > > > > contrary" to that of MMY. I was suggesting it wasn't > > > > > that different. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev, the model of enlightenment (was: far more "quality" posts now.
Vaj, you ask 'What do we know of pre-Shank. public lectures?' It is said that prior to his becoming Shankaracharya, Guru Dev did not make public lectures. Supporting this is the quote from Raj Varma's book 'Strange Facts of a Great Saint':- 'Then Maharaj Shri himself said "I am not in the habit of giving discourses but if any question comes, then adequate answer will be given to it."' About Guru Dev's private teachings, well Raj also wrote:- 'Devotedly I performed the puja of Maharaj Shri and he gave me a suitable mantra to repeat daily in a particular way. I was very grateful to him and bowed down at the lotus feet of Shri Guru Dev.' http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/RajVarma.htm & MMY himself said:- 'It's very difficult for me to find out what he was using, huh? [laughter from audience] Because initiation is all in private ...' http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/MMY.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Personally, I tend to think that enlightenment confers inner contentment complete with a sense of wonder, sense of purpose and more. But on the strength of what I can gather, I am unconvinced that it necessarilly removes the possibility of the enlightened one living his/her enlightenment blissfully ignorant about a great many things, about, ignorant about the truth of the planet's history or the story of creation, ignorant whether this or that storybook figure actually existed or not. Perhaps, and this is dangerous territory perhaps, but just perhaps, enlightenment is no more but no less than living a wonderfully drugless high, and does not necessarilly confer any higher perceptions beyond those which that individual personality can rise to. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Here in context is the Guru Dev quotation about the supernatural > > powers of the 'Indian law-giver': > > > > 'Today it is usual to be pleased at measuring the material weight > of > > the cow stock; but remember now of the subtler-than-the-subtlest of > > material knowledge of cow stock of the excellent dharma and > > usefulness, the very whereabouts may not [now] be connected with, > > that was evident through supernatural powers to that Indian law- > > giver. The greatness and holiness of cow stock, in you is the one > > which is subtler-than-the-subtlest, the cause and form, the reason > of > > keenness of the elements, for their investigation and knowledge the > > yantra (instrument) of modern material scientists will always > remain > > too crude. Right here is also the cause of the clever twentieth > > century knowledge - the secret that in the hairs on the body of the > > mother cow the gods are dwelling, and the dawn sighting of a cow, > the > > worship of the cow, the cow-god etc - remaining unsuccessful in the > > understanding of the real truth. The universal feeling is held of > the > > holiness of the cow herds and that whether one bears the truth to > > himself by way of intellect, attainable experience or confident in > > the way of the shastra, not by physical instruments.' > > I have *no* idea what he's saying here. It reads > to me like a BabelFish translation. (My deficiency, > I'm sure.) > > > I believe by advocating and living by the Shastras that Guru Dev > > believed he was serving the best good to those he taught. I believe > > too that MMY believed he served the best interest of westerners > > when he de-Hinduised the teaching of meditation. But I don't > > believe either of them were above believing as fact what many would > > consider fiction. And this I find particularly curious, that > > enlightenment can apparently occur without necessarilly disabusing > > an indivual of the sometimes fictional content of inherited wisdom. > > It raises the question of exactly what kind of > "knowledge" it is that becomes available to higher > consciousness, that is supposedly "structured in > consciousness." > > Similarly with "inherited wisdom." What part of it > is that knowledge structured in consciousness, and > if not all of it, how is the rest to be characterized? > > Does the latter influence the expression--i.e., the > communication--of the former, or vice-versa, or both? > Can they be distinguished at all? Can they be in > conflict? > > How much does the individual personality affect what > the enlightened person believes to be true? > > And does enlightenment guarantee knowing the answers > to any of these questions? > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, I have a similar take on this, > > > > > > But you said you thought Guru Dev's take was "entirely > > > contrary" to that of MMY. I was suggesting it wasn't > > > that different. > > I'm still curious about this. > > > > > > but have you looked at the > > > > Shastras? Phew!!!! Also, Guru Dev extols not only the Shastras > > but > > > > their author, holding him to have supernatural sight. > > > > > > Did that view of the author also come from a book, > > > or was it intuitive on Guru Dev's part, do you think? > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev, the model of enlightenment (was: far more "quality" posts now.
Guru Dev was instructed by Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Shringeri Math, a lineage known for its adherence to the Smarta teachings of Adi Shankara. The worship of the five deities (Shiva, Vishnu, Durga, Ganesha, Surya) is recurrent in Guru Dev's teachings. This teaching is thought to have originally means a way of bringing together the variety of worship under one umbrella, thus one could worship any member of Shiva's family or close friends (some also even include a sixth deity, Kartikeya, Shiva's second son and still be in the same community. Vaj, What do you see in the differences between Smarta & Sri Vidhya that make you think that Guru Dev would have had trouble reconciling the two systems? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Feb 3, 2006, at 5:20 AM, Premanand Paul Mason wrote: > > > I don't know about the rest of you, but I got a series of shocks when > > I came to read of Guru Dev's lifestory and teachings. I had envisaged > > someone whose teachings would be light, optimistic, yogic and bright. > > Instead, I read in his teachings one steeped in the Hindu teachings > > which many of us would have associated with the Middle Ages rather > > than a man of enlightenment. > > I see a set of teachings which are framed and intended for > dissemination inside the tradition of Shankara and therefore typical > of Shankaracharya tradition. If we accept that SBS was a Sri Vidya > adept, the notable thing I notice was the public teaching was typical > of Shank-style teachings and did not contain any Sri Vidya teachings > whatsoever. One wonders if this is the reason for the reluctance in > taking the post in the first place: a post which requires you to talk > from a certain angle, in a certain vein and espouse the view of a > school. His rendering of Advaita Vedanta seems very traditional. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Here in context is the Guru Dev quotation about the supernatural powers of the 'Indian law-giver': 'Today it is usual to be pleased at measuring the material weight of the cow stock; but remember now of the subtler-than-the-subtlest of material knowledge of cow stock of the excellent dharma and usefulness, the very whereabouts may not [now] be connected with, that was evident through supernatural powers to that Indian law- giver. The greatness and holiness of cow stock, in you is the one which is subtler-than-the-subtlest, the cause and form, the reason of keenness of the elements, for their investigation and knowledge the yantra (instrument) of modern material scientists will always remain too crude. Right here is also the cause of the clever twentieth century knowledge - the secret that in the hairs on the body of the mother cow the gods are dwelling, and the dawn sighting of a cow, the worship of the cow, the cow-god etc - remaining unsuccessful in the understanding of the real truth. The universal feeling is held of the holiness of the cow herds and that whether one bears the truth to himself by way of intellect, attainable experience or confident in the way of the shastra, not by physical instruments.' I believe by advocating and living by the Shastras that Guru Dev believed he was serving the best good to those he taught. I believe too that MMY believed he served the best interest of westerners when he de-Hinduised the teaching of meditation. But I don't believe either of them were above believing as fact what many would consider fiction. And this I find particularly curious, that enlightenment can apparently occur without necessarilly disabusing an indivual of the sometimes fictional content of inherited wisdom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Yes, I have a similar take on this, > > But you said you thought Guru Dev's take was "entirely > contrary" to that of MMY. I was suggesting it wasn't > that different. > > but have you looked at the > > Shastras? Phew Also, Guru Dev extols not only the Shastras but > > their author, holding him to have supernatural sight. > > Did that view of the author also come from a book, > or was it intuitive on Guru Dev's part, do you think? > > > Well it might > > interest FFLers to check the biographical profile of the author, > but > > really!! > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well Rick, here is a stream-of thinking answer to your > > suggestion. > > > > It is apparent when reading Guru Dev's satsangs that he was > > totally > > > > sold on the idea of everyone living by the Shastras. So it > might > > be > > > > interesting to take a raincheck on that area. He really was > quite > > > > adamantly against arbitrariness - caste was important as was > > ritual. > > > > > > > > He was highly unimpressed with science. > > > > He had a downer on Westerners. > > > > He seemed to have absolute belief in fatalism. > > > > He didn't seem to believe that just doing some worship or > > > > meditation was enough, he believed that living by the Shastras > > was > > > > totally necessary (sorry to come back to that first point - but > > it > > > > is so recurrent as to be inescapable). > > > > > > > > Okay, where were we. Oh yes, he most certainly was completely > > sold > > > > into the idea of rebirth and all the rest of Hinduism's basic > > > > beliefs, thus re-enforcing the idea that all things Hindu are > > right > > > > and fine and dandy. But often he makes it clear that he is > > > > repeating accepted wisdom. > > > > > > > > BUT that is entirely contrary to what I understand MMY has been > > > > saying. He has encouraged people to believe that being > > enlightened > > > > will give up the answers. i.e. it is consciousness not books > that > > > > give the knowledge. > > > > > > Would Guru Dev have disagreed that consciousness is > > > the ultimate source of knowledge? I have trouble > > > believing that he would have. > > > > > > Perhaps what he was doing by emphasizing the shastras > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Chanakya is the man of the Shastras --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Who is the author? > Ingegerd > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Yes, I have a similar take on this, but have you looked at the > > Shastras? Phew Also, Guru Dev extols not only the Shastras but > > their author, holding him to have supernatural sight. Well it > might > > interest FFLers to check the biographical profile of the author, > but > > really!! > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well Rick, here is a stream-of thinking answer to your > > suggestion. > > > > It is apparent when reading Guru Dev's satsangs that he was > > totally > > > > sold on the idea of everyone living by the Shastras. So it > might > > be > > > > interesting to take a raincheck on that area. He really was > quite > > > > adamantly against arbitrariness - caste was important as was > > ritual. > > > > > > > > He was highly unimpressed with science. > > > > He had a downer on Westerners. > > > > He seemed to have absolute belief in fatalism. > > > > He didn't seem to believe that just doing some worship or > > > > meditation was enough, he believed that living by the Shastras > > was > > > > totally necessary (sorry to come back to that first point - > but > > it > > > > is so recurrent as to be inescapable). > > > > > > > > Okay, where were we. Oh yes, he most certainly was completely > > sold > > > > into the idea of rebirth and all the rest of Hinduism's basic > > > > beliefs, thus re-enforcing the idea that all things Hindu are > > right > > > > and fine and dandy. But often he makes it clear that he is > > > > repeating accepted wisdom. > > > > > > > > BUT that is entirely contrary to what I understand MMY has > been > > > > saying. He has encouraged people to believe that being > > enlightened > > > > will give up the answers. i.e. it is consciousness not books > that > > > > give the knowledge. > > > > > > Would Guru Dev have disagreed that consciousness is > > > the ultimate source of knowledge? I have trouble > > > believing that he would have. > > > > > > Perhaps what he was doing by emphasizing the shastras > > > was giving his students/followers something to live > > > by *until* they could depend on consciousness for > > > knowledge. > > > > > > And if that's what he was telling them, he would have > > > to live by the shastras' rules himself, would he not, > > > to set an example? > > > > > > MMY actually does somewhat the same thing, by giving > > > some general behavioral recommendations and then > > > telling TMers to follow the scriptures of their religion, > > > and/or the laws of the land, and/or the advice of their > > > elders, if they are in doubt about the right thing to > > > do. He doesn't specify a particular set of scriptures > > > or laws because he wants to reach people of all religions > > > (and no religion) and all nations. > > > > > > > It is likely Guru Dev lived an exhalted inner existence and > was > > > > incredibly at peace with himself. It is implicit in everything > > MMY > > > > says about his guru that we are to take it that he was > > enlightened. > > > > However, if one lives purely by rules, Shastras and convention > > and > > > > never makes decisions for oneself, in any real sense, the > point > > of > > > > wanting enlightenment gets lost. People want to feel free of > the > > > > interminable rules and regulations, that's a big part of why > they > > > > take a dive into the peace to be found beyond thinking. > > > > > > On the other hand, I would suspect that once one > > > attains complete inner freedom, having to follow > > > external laws and rules isn't much of a pinch. > > > > > > Presumably we want to become enlightened not so we > > > can be free of rules, but so rules can no longer > > > impinge on our sense of freedom, which has become > > > absolute and infinite. > > > > > > > > > > There must be something there worth discussing, other than the > > > > confused way I have laid out the ideas. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev, the model of enlightenment (was: far more "quality" posts now.
Whilst speaking about meditation MMY has usually made sure to position a picture of Guru Dev behind him . Also, when speaking about Guru Dev himself he always held him to be a shining example of spirituality and completeness. So for TMers, Guru Dev represents the model of spiritual attainment - enlightenment. Whilst there are other models in other traditions, in the world of TM Guru Dev is the primary example. I don't know about the rest of you, but I got a series of shocks when I came to read of Guru Dev's lifestory and teachings. I had envisaged someone whose teachings would be light, optimistic, yogic and bright. Instead, I read in his teachings one steeped in the Hindu teachings which many of us would have associated with the Middle Ages rather than a man of enlightenment. Be that as it may, he is the example that has been offered by MMY, and therefore deserves close consideration. Clearly, there is an undercurrent of humour and light pervading the teachings. But I am still concerned that enlightenment as portrayed by him seems so against freedom of thought and action. It appears that MMY too had reservations about his attitude to fatalism. I quote from a biographical sketch he wrote in 1955, two years after Guru Dev's passing:- 'He for himself would allow things to go on as they are ordained by the hand of destiny, but His devotees have many a time changed the course of fate of themselves and of the people.' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Yes, I have a similar take on this, but have you looked at the Shastras? Phew Also, Guru Dev extols not only the Shastras but their author, holding him to have supernatural sight. Well it might interest FFLers to check the biographical profile of the author, but really!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Well Rick, here is a stream-of thinking answer to your suggestion. > > It is apparent when reading Guru Dev's satsangs that he was totally > > sold on the idea of everyone living by the Shastras. So it might be > > interesting to take a raincheck on that area. He really was quite > > adamantly against arbitrariness - caste was important as was ritual. > > > > He was highly unimpressed with science. > > He had a downer on Westerners. > > He seemed to have absolute belief in fatalism. > > He didn't seem to believe that just doing some worship or > > meditation was enough, he believed that living by the Shastras was > > totally necessary (sorry to come back to that first point - but it > > is so recurrent as to be inescapable). > > > > Okay, where were we. Oh yes, he most certainly was completely sold > > into the idea of rebirth and all the rest of Hinduism's basic > > beliefs, thus re-enforcing the idea that all things Hindu are right > > and fine and dandy. But often he makes it clear that he is > > repeating accepted wisdom. > > > > BUT that is entirely contrary to what I understand MMY has been > > saying. He has encouraged people to believe that being enlightened > > will give up the answers. i.e. it is consciousness not books that > > give the knowledge. > > Would Guru Dev have disagreed that consciousness is > the ultimate source of knowledge? I have trouble > believing that he would have. > > Perhaps what he was doing by emphasizing the shastras > was giving his students/followers something to live > by *until* they could depend on consciousness for > knowledge. > > And if that's what he was telling them, he would have > to live by the shastras' rules himself, would he not, > to set an example? > > MMY actually does somewhat the same thing, by giving > some general behavioral recommendations and then > telling TMers to follow the scriptures of their religion, > and/or the laws of the land, and/or the advice of their > elders, if they are in doubt about the right thing to > do. He doesn't specify a particular set of scriptures > or laws because he wants to reach people of all religions > (and no religion) and all nations. > > > It is likely Guru Dev lived an exhalted inner existence and was > > incredibly at peace with himself. It is implicit in everything MMY > > says about his guru that we are to take it that he was enlightened. > > However, if one lives purely by rules, Shastras and convention and > > never makes decisions for oneself, in any real sense, the point of > > wanting enlightenment gets lost. People want to feel free of the > > interminable rules and regulations, that's a big part of why they > > take a dive into the peace to be found beyond thinking. > > On the other hand, I would suspect that once one > attains complete inner freedom, having to follow > external laws and rules isn't much of a pinch. > > Presumably we want to become enlightened not so we > can be free of rules, but so rules can no longer > impinge on our sense of freedom, which has become > absolute and infinite. > > > > There must be something there worth discussing, other than the > > confused way I have laid out the ideas. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Amrit Kana, from which many of the quotations of Guru Dev come, was actually compiled by MMY. It is therefore his choice of quotations and is not necessarilly biased to any particular faith or persuasion. It is possible of course that he muted his fervour for things Hindu whilst speaking to those of other faiths. But that is what MMY did with regard to the 'gods' of the mantras, though it didn't stop him talking about them in private. So it is a double message, once you get hooked into the practice we will tell you about the Shastras later! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I heard MMY say (or perhaps Charlie or Jerry say that MMY said) that > all faiths would come to SBS for blessings and instructions. And being > a sat-guru, world teacher, he could teach anyone in a way that was > consistent with their faith and would help them. Muslims, Christians, > Sikhs, Buddhists all came to him and got upliftment and methods they > could use. > > In that context, I assume most of the lectures you have are to devout > hindus. So he extolls hindu shastras. In giving advice and techniques > to christians and muslims, presumably he focused on their path. > > And if we are to believe conventional wisdom (tales from MMY), SBS > gave MMY a path for householders -- world wide. Presumably this was > not the mainstream things he taught his monks to do, nor devout hindu > audiences. > > As a world teacher, it would be natural for him to have many messages > for many paths, pehaps for many mountains. (Process = Product). > > Do your researches indicate any of this? > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Well Rick, here is a stream-of thinking answer to your suggestion. > > It is apparent when reading Guru Dev's satsangs that he was totally > > sold on the idea of everyone living by the Shastras. So it might be > > interesting to take a raincheck on that area. He really was quite > > adamantly against arbitrariness - caste was important as was ritual. > > He was highly unimpressed with science. > > He had a downer on Westerners. > > He seemed to have absolute belief in fatalism. > > He didn't seem to believe that just doing some worship or meditation > > was enough, he believed that living by the Shastras was totally > > necessary (sorry to come back to that first point - but it is so > > recurrent as to be inescapable). > > Okay, where were we. Oh yes, he most certainly was completely sold > > into the idea of rebirth and all the rest of Hinduism's basic > > beliefs, thus re-enforcing the idea that all things Hindu are right > > and fine and dandy. But often he makes it clear that he is repeating > > accepted wisdom. > > BUT that is entirely contrary to what I understand MMY has been > > saying. He has encouraged people to believe that being enlightened > > will give up the answers. i.e. it is consciousness not books that > > give the knowledge. > > It is likely Guru Dev lived an exhalted inner existence and was > > incredibly at peace with himself. It is implicit in everything MMY > > says about his guru that we are to take it that he was enlightened. > > However, if one lives purely by rules, Shastras and convention and > > never makes decisions for oneself, in any real sense, the point of > > wanting enlightenment gets lost. People want to feel free of the > > interminable rules and regulations, that's a big part of why they > > take a dive into the peace to be found beyond thinking. > > > > There must be something there worth discussing, other than the > > confused way I have laid out the ideas. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > wrote: > > > > > > on 2/2/06 5:51 PM, Premanand Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > > I have produced a resource of a set > > > > of webpages offering most of the known material of Guru Dev and > > have > > > > offered up translation of recently discovered texts at:- > > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm > > > > But, with the exception of the 'OM' debate, it has stimulated very > > > > little response here on FFL. It would be interesting to hear some > > of > > > > the issues discussed here. > > > > Perhaps, That's the way to do it. > > > > > > Whether or not anyone takes you up on this offer, perhaps you could > > give us > > > links or paste text o
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
There are more satsangs to be translated. I don't know much about Shankaracharyas, but generally speaking the world of sadhus and swamis has changed a lot since Guru Dev's time. Many use the internet, hold post office accounts and fraternise, but that is not to say they are any less sincere than seekers fifty years ago. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > >I have produced a resource of a set > > of webpages offering most of the known material of Guru Dev > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm > excellent site. > > > It would be interesting to hear some of > > the issues discussed here. > > In "The Real Thing .. " it said SBS did not accept darshan of women. > Do you have quotes reflecting his views on women, their role, etc. > > Also, I have seen other shanks accept darshan of woman. Is SBS view > and practice more an exception or more the rule in shank maths. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
Well Rick, here is a stream-of thinking answer to your suggestion. It is apparent when reading Guru Dev's satsangs that he was totally sold on the idea of everyone living by the Shastras. So it might be interesting to take a raincheck on that area. He really was quite adamantly against arbitrariness - caste was important as was ritual. He was highly unimpressed with science. He had a downer on Westerners. He seemed to have absolute belief in fatalism. He didn't seem to believe that just doing some worship or meditation was enough, he believed that living by the Shastras was totally necessary (sorry to come back to that first point - but it is so recurrent as to be inescapable). Okay, where were we. Oh yes, he most certainly was completely sold into the idea of rebirth and all the rest of Hinduism's basic beliefs, thus re-enforcing the idea that all things Hindu are right and fine and dandy. But often he makes it clear that he is repeating accepted wisdom. BUT that is entirely contrary to what I understand MMY has been saying. He has encouraged people to believe that being enlightened will give up the answers. i.e. it is consciousness not books that give the knowledge. It is likely Guru Dev lived an exhalted inner existence and was incredibly at peace with himself. It is implicit in everything MMY says about his guru that we are to take it that he was enlightened. However, if one lives purely by rules, Shastras and convention and never makes decisions for oneself, in any real sense, the point of wanting enlightenment gets lost. People want to feel free of the interminable rules and regulations, that's a big part of why they take a dive into the peace to be found beyond thinking. There must be something there worth discussing, other than the confused way I have laid out the ideas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 2/2/06 5:51 PM, Premanand Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I have produced a resource of a set > > of webpages offering most of the known material of Guru Dev and have > > offered up translation of recently discovered texts at:- > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm > > But, with the exception of the 'OM' debate, it has stimulated very > > little response here on FFL. It would be interesting to hear some of > > the issues discussed here. > > Perhaps, That's the way to do it. > > Whether or not anyone takes you up on this offer, perhaps you could give us > links or paste text of some points that you consider most fascinating. That > might get some discussion going. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Actually, there are far more "quality" posts now.
The Punch 'n' Judy, crocodile & policeman stuff is what really exhausts, but for those who want to, there is still no end of material to chew on and ponder which relates to TM, MMY and his guru, not even been touched upon here. I have produced a resource of a set of webpages offering most of the known material of Guru Dev and have offered up translation of recently discovered texts at:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm But, with the exception of the 'OM' debate, it has stimulated very little response here on FFL. It would be interesting to hear some of the issues discussed here. Perhaps, That's the way to do it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter wrote: > > > > I agree with you. But perhaps we've rehashed the > > "basic themes" over so much that all we're left with > > is the seemingly endless nitpicking. Who knows. Maybe > > we're all exhausted ;-) > > > I was thinking the same thing- completely *gone* > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime
Well, for starters your posts always seem to me to be reasonably polite, which is welcome. I think if posters maintained politeness that would be a really good way forward. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > When I first chanced on FFL it seemed 'gentlemanly' if you can excuse > > the non-PC term. Nowadays, it is an alley where one has to beware of > > who might be about. > > If a post is well thought out, insightful and clearly stated, who > cares "who is about"? If a "reviewer" points out some useful points > in their feedback, then good. If they are wrapped up in some personal > bubble out of which they cannot see, then they may not have points > useful to you. Just let the comments go, perhaps. And at a minumum, if > someone is trying to critique your post from inside their own inner > reflective bubble, at least it may give some insight into their world. > > > Although it appears that there are more posts > > nowadays, this is something of anble illusion, since there is now an > > anything-goes mentality > > I find now there is a wider range of posts, a wider range of critiques > and commentaries, a wider range of styles, some refined, some crude. > I don't see all posts and threads have become totaly entropic and > degraded. Some, perhaps a few have. > > >whereas then there seemed to be more self- > > discipline and a higher standard of debate. > > Perhaps. I don't know how far back you go. There has certainly been > some mudslinging and personal attacks in the 2-3 year ago era. As a > percentage of monthly posts, I am not sure the proportion has changed. > > But I ask a combustable question: are flames and personal criticism > necessarily always bad and evil? I view them as inneffective feedback, > but also inconsequential. Others appear to find a bit of mud on the > road and it ruins their day. Maybe they have as much to heal and > resolve within as the mud-droppers. > > Slanging matches might > > have their value but when they become routine they are offensive. > > If it has value sometimes, why is quantity a distinguishing > characteristic? As MR pointed out, he only finds half the posts crude > or offensive (IMO, way to aggressive an estimate). But if half are > such, is that too much for you? You are still left with far more > quality posts than two years ago. > > And sometimes offensiveness is found by occasional and selective > readers who don't get the references and context of a subtle wit, > satire or sarchasim, and only see "offensiveness". > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime
When I first chanced on FFL it seemed 'gentlemanly' if you can excuse the non-PC term. Nowadays, it is an alley where one has to beware of who might be about. Although it appears that there are more posts nowadays, this is something of an illusion, since there is now an anything-goes mentality whereas then there seemed to be more self- discipline and a higher standard of debate. Slanging matches might have their value but when they become routine they are offensive. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 1/31/06 8:16 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Nicely put, Michael. It seems to me that much of FFL is a different place > > than it was a few > > years ago. There are wonderful discussions, good laughs, and such knowledgable > > people > > here. But I skip many of the posts these days because they are so hostile - > > from a subset > > of people looking to engage each other by jumping on a word's implied meaning, > > an > > assumed criticism, the personality or character of someone they've never met, > > on and on. > > I'm not sure why they are here on FFL at all. Why not email each other on the > > side or > > better yet, just call each other on the phone and work out these "issues" and > > conflicts > > between each other, rather than taking up space on FFL? The tone of this kind > > of stuff is > > "off," unpleasant, and it feels as if a portion of FFL has been hijacked. > > I agree. I don't get this "hostility on the Internet" thing. Would the > people who behave this way here do so face to face? Maybe, if they had been > married 10 years and it wasn't working out, but otherwise, I'll bet they're > a lot more cordial in "real life" than they are on the Net, or at least I > hope so. Amma always says that anger is like a knife without a handle that's > sharp on both ends - it injures the attacker as much as the person being > attacked. I know that when I spew negativity on someone, I feel polluted > afterwards. And upon reflection, I realize that I'm just lashing out against > my own flaws, mirrored back to me by the person I'm attacking. Can a sincere > spiritual aspirant habitually indulge in negative behavior? Wouldn't their > spiritual progress be facilitated by examining why they tend to do that and > rooting out that tendency? Wouldn't they and all they influence feel better > if they did so? People are always going to do things which potentially could > invoke our anger or negativity. Seems to me that we use take those > situations as an opportunity for our own growth by exercising restraint and > judgment and sublimating the tendency to respond in kind. In a word, > forgiveness. Maybe our doing so will facilitate their growth as well, by > setting an example or causing them to reflect on their own behavior rather > than reinforcing their destructive habit. > > Just some thoughts. Sorry if I'm sounding preachy. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FairfieldLife : Photos
French to English translation available at:- Babel Fish Translation http://world.altavista.com/ Copy text - paste in box - select 'French to English' and ... If it doesn't work first go, try again --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Here's the text from the article (found att archive search 'Maharishi' > at http://www.illustre.ch): > > > © L'Illustré; 21.12.2005; numéro 51; page 36 > Le reportage > «La Suisse est désignée pour être le paradis sur Terre» > La folle utopie du rajah Felix Kaegi > Couronnés d'or, ils se déplacent en Cadillac de palace en palace dans > le but proclamé de faire de la Suisse un havre de paix. Quel sens > donner à l'opération troublante lancée à Genève par les émissaires de > Maharishi, le père de la méditation transcendantale? Enquête. > Texte: Françoise Boulianne Photos: Claude Gluntz > Quand le sage montre la lune, le fou regarde le doigt, dit le > proverbe. Parfait. Mais qui est le sage et qui est le fou, dans cette > affaire? Les militants de Mai 68 voulaient raser les Alpes pour voir > la mer. Trente-sept ans plus tard, les émissaires de Maharishi Mahesh > Yogi, autrefois gourou des Beatles, veulent raser Genève pour voir la > paix, le bonheur, la prospérité. Faut-il rire de leurs couronnes, de > leurs limousines et des palaces qu'ils affectionnent? Ou alors faut- il > prêter attention à leur message provocateur, somme toute alléchant en > cette période de crise majuscule, d'autant qu'il est porté par des > millions d'adeptes fidèles de la méditation transcendantale (MT), à > commencer par David Lynch ou Clint Eastwood? > Dans le doute, nous avons emboîté le pas à ces drôles de rajahs aux > joues roses venus de Zurich, de Londres et de New York prêcher la > bonne parole en Suisse romande. > Acte I, 14 décembre, au Lausanne Palace > Rendez-vous avec Felix Kaegi, rajah de Suisse. Première surprise: sa > majesté a de l'humour. Interrogé sur sa couronne, qu'il arbore avec la > timidité d'une championne de décathlon se glissant pour la première > fois dans une robe du soir, il admet volontiers qu'elle n'est pas très > confortable et qu'il l'enlève pour dormir. > Cet homme au destin surprenant explique qu'il est né à Saint-Gall en > 1954, l'année où Françoise Sagan publiait Bonjour tristesse et Boris > Vian chantait Le déserteur. Fils d'un photographe, qui a établi plus > tard sa boutique à Stäfa, sur les rives du lac de Zurich, il a eu son > premier flash à 14 ans, en feuilletant le magazine Salut les copains. > «Les Beatles posaient avec leur gourou indien, dit-il. En quête de > valeurs que je ne trouvais pas dans mon village, j'ai punaisé la photo > sur le mur de ma chambre. Maharishi Mahesh Yogi est devenu le symbole > de ce que je cherchais.» > De fil en aiguille, Felix entre en contact avec le fondateur de la MT. > Son apprentissage de chimiste terminé, il jette aux orties son diplôme > et les aspirations étriquées de son milieu pour aller suivre > l'enseignement de son maître. > Trente ans plus tard, le voici rajah de Suisse, fraîchement formé à > son rôle de roi - en Hollande, où vit Maharishi -, en compagnie de 21 > autres rajahs de différentes régions du monde. Il est flanqué d'une > ravissante épouse, Mona, nommée mère du domaine du rajah de Suisse. > Fille de riches adeptes de la MT, d'abord formée comme styliste, elle > est devenue professeur de méditation et naturopathe à Zurich. Fier de > ses succès, son mari précise qu'en six ans, elle a initié plus de 1000 > nouveaux pratiquants. > Aussi chaleureux que soucieux de bien faire, tous deux expliquent > longuement leur projet, ce qui allume plein de petites étoiles dans > leurs yeux candides. «Reconstruire Genève en respect avec les lois de > la nature apportera à cette cité la paix, le bonheur et la prospérité, > ce qui permettra de montrer la voie au monde», disent-ils en résumé. > «Nous devons tout faire pour prévenir une prochaine guerre, précise > Felix Kaegi, qui médite huit heures par jour pour stimuler les forces > nécessaires à sa mission. Grâce à ses traditions de paix et de > liberté, la Suisse est naturellement désignée pour devenir le paradis > sur Terre. Ce qui lui manque, c'est de comprendre les bienfaits de la > méditation, qui dissout notamment les peurs et les conflits, ainsi que > les principes de la science védique, mère de toutes les connaissances.» > Est-ce au nom de ces principes qu'il s'est établi au Lausanne Palace > et roule en limousine? «Notez que je n'ai ni yacht ni avion privé à > vous montrer, sourit-il encore. L'argent n'est pas sale en soi, le > pouvoir et le confort non plus. Ce qui compte, c'est comment on > l'obtient et ce qu'on en fait. Un roi doit assumer un rôle parental, > et s'assurer que personne ne souffre dans son royaume. Pour cela, il > lui faut de l'argent dans sa trésorerie.» > Acte II, 15 décembre, hôtel Président Wilson, Genève > Les rajahs ont fastueusement lancé leur conférence «Reconstrui
[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime
http://news.com.com/2010-1028_3-6022491.html?tag=nl
easier-to-use URL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> CNET NEWS
> Perspective: Create an e-annoyance, go to jail
> By Declan McCullagh
> 9th January 2006
>
> http://news.com.com/Create+an+e-annoyance%2C+go+to+jail/2010-1028_3-
> 6022491.html?tag=nl
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > This post is pretty funny. If not sad. Its sounded so odd that
such
> a
> > major bill could pass congress and be signed without any
controversy
> > in the media. It a major Free Speech issue.
> >
> > So I checked the last 50 or so Technology arttices in the
NYTimes.
> And
> > the last 50 or so articles in the "Washington" section. Could't
find
> > anything close to what the poster cited. So I did a search on
> > "anonymous" and seperately on "annoy". There are no articles in
the
> > past week containing these words that appear to have anything to
do
> > with what the poster says he read.
> >
> > Please post the article or links to it.
> >
> > Beyond the "no media controversy" and "no article" issues, the
post
> is
> > quite naive in its logic and its view of the world.
> >
> > "Since Yahoo is committed to preventing illegal behavior in its
> > groups, according to a number of sections of Yahoo's "Terms of
> > Service" (that we agreed to when joining up), Yahoo would have to
> > discipline any in-dividual poster (or group) that doesn't abide by
> > this new Federal law - anyone who posts potentially "annoying"
posts
> > anonymously or using a screen name or pseudo-name. Yahoo would
have
> > to remove from its service an individual who was reported to
them
> as
> > persisting in violating the law."
> >
> > Was Due Process suspeneded with this bill? No police
investigation?
> No
> > DA deciding if the case has merit? No trial? Just some angry
person
> > says "He abused me" and it means that the alleged law was broken?
> Oh my!
> >
> > This post is simply creepy in its unsupported claims, phantom
> article,
> >naivity, etc. I hope the students at THE CENTER FOR
REALIZATION
> are
> > better served.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Fairfield Lifers,
> > >
> > > For the well-being and continuity of our group, I post the
> > > following information, from today's New York Times news reports:
> > >
> > > Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime.
> > >
> > > Last Thursday, President Bush signed into law a prohibition on
> post-
> > > ing annoying web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages
> with-
> > > out disclosing your true identity.
> > >
> > > In other words, it's OK to flame someone on a mailing list or
in a
> > > blog as long as you do it under your real name.
> > >
> > > This prohibition is included in the "Violence Against Women and
> De-
> > > partment of Justice Reauthorization Act". Criminal penalties
> include
> > > stiff fines and two years in prison.
> > >
> > > Buried deep in the new law is Sec. 113, a subsection
> called "Prevent-
> > > ing Cyberstalking." It rewrites existing telephone harassment
law
> to
> > > prohibit anyone from using the Internet "without disclosing his
> iden-
> > > tity and with intent to annoy."
> > >
> > > Here's the relevant language:
> > >
> > > "Whoever...utilizes any device or software that can be used to
> ori-
> > > ginate telecommunications or other types of communications that
> are
> > > transmitted, in whole or in part, by the internet... without
> disclos-
> > > ing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or
> harass
> > > any person...who receives the communications...shall be fined
> under
> > > Title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My commentary:
> > >
> > > Since the law uses the vague word "annoy", along with the
> stronger lan-
> > > guage ("threaten, harass, abuse"), the result for a discussion
&g
[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime
CNET NEWS
Perspective: Create an e-annoyance, go to jail
By Declan McCullagh
9th January 2006
http://news.com.com/Create+an+e-annoyance%2C+go+to+jail/2010-1028_3-
6022491.html?tag=nl
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This post is pretty funny. If not sad. Its sounded so odd that such
a
> major bill could pass congress and be signed without any controversy
> in the media. It a major Free Speech issue.
>
> So I checked the last 50 or so Technology arttices in the NYTimes.
And
> the last 50 or so articles in the "Washington" section. Could't find
> anything close to what the poster cited. So I did a search on
> "anonymous" and seperately on "annoy". There are no articles in the
> past week containing these words that appear to have anything to do
> with what the poster says he read.
>
> Please post the article or links to it.
>
> Beyond the "no media controversy" and "no article" issues, the post
is
> quite naive in its logic and its view of the world.
>
> "Since Yahoo is committed to preventing illegal behavior in its
> groups, according to a number of sections of Yahoo's "Terms of
> Service" (that we agreed to when joining up), Yahoo would have to
> discipline any in-dividual poster (or group) that doesn't abide by
> this new Federal law - anyone who posts potentially "annoying" posts
> anonymously or using a screen name or pseudo-name. Yahoo would have
> to remove from its service an individual who was reported to them
as
> persisting in violating the law."
>
> Was Due Process suspeneded with this bill? No police investigation?
No
> DA deciding if the case has merit? No trial? Just some angry person
> says "He abused me" and it means that the alleged law was broken?
Oh my!
>
> This post is simply creepy in its unsupported claims, phantom
article,
>naivity, etc. I hope the students at THE CENTER FOR REALIZATION
are
> better served.
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Fairfield Lifers,
> >
> > For the well-being and continuity of our group, I post the
> > following information, from today's New York Times news reports:
> >
> > Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime.
> >
> > Last Thursday, President Bush signed into law a prohibition on
post-
> > ing annoying web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages
with-
> > out disclosing your true identity.
> >
> > In other words, it's OK to flame someone on a mailing list or in a
> > blog as long as you do it under your real name.
> >
> > This prohibition is included in the "Violence Against Women and
De-
> > partment of Justice Reauthorization Act". Criminal penalties
include
> > stiff fines and two years in prison.
> >
> > Buried deep in the new law is Sec. 113, a subsection
called "Prevent-
> > ing Cyberstalking." It rewrites existing telephone harassment law
to
> > prohibit anyone from using the Internet "without disclosing his
iden-
> > tity and with intent to annoy."
> >
> > Here's the relevant language:
> >
> > "Whoever...utilizes any device or software that can be used to
ori-
> > ginate telecommunications or other types of communications that
are
> > transmitted, in whole or in part, by the internet... without
disclos-
> > ing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or
harass
> > any person...who receives the communications...shall be fined
under
> > Title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."
> >
> >
> >
> > My commentary:
> >
> > Since the law uses the vague word "annoy", along with the
stronger lan-
> > guage ("threaten, harass, abuse"), the result for a discussion
group
> > such as ours may be:
> >
> > 1. You CAN discuss someone's ideas anonymously.
> >
> > 2. BUT you must reveal your true identity if you push the argument
> > very far, if you are perceived as "arguing", to where the
other
> > person could get "annoyed" with you - whether for your
perceived
> > "resistance", your differing point of view, etc.
> >
> > 3. And you must certainly reveal your true identity if you move
> > from debating his content (his ideas) to making any
disparaging
> > or even merely uninvited comments about the person himself -
in-
> > cluding comments about his motives, state of mind, character,
> > believability, qualifications, etc. - any of which could
easily
> > be predicted to be "annoying" to someone expecting polite
discus-
> > sion of his ideas only, and some of which may move
beyond "annoy-
> > ing" and into the realm of "threatening" or "harassing".
> >
> > The bottom line: by virtue of this new Federal law, we must each
either
> > stop posting anything that could be reasonably expected to be
annoying
> > to another, or continue posting these things but do it under our
true
> > names (rather than anonymously). And the standard is low; it
doesn't
> > take much to "annoy" so
[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's birthdate
Various birthdates have been offered for Guru Dev, Shankaracharya
Swami Brahmanand Saraswati.
In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev ('Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' by
Shri Rameshwar Tiwari, published 1965) the birthdate is given
as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii, vikrama samvat 1928' i.e.
Margashirsha 10th 1928, whilst the Western calendar date is
calculated to be 'December 21, 1870'.
In an early version of Brahmachari Mahesh's 'Our Guiding Light'
(included in 'The Beacon Light of the Himalayas' published 1955) it
is stated:- 'He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928
(equivalent to December 1871)'.
It is generally accepted that there is a difference of fifty-six /
fifty-seven years between the Vikram and Gregorian calendars. Checking
with the computer program Calendar Magic, the Vikrami date is shown
to be equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1871 in the Gregorian
calendar.
However, a different date is offered by the Transcendental Meditation
organisation, that of 20th December 1868 (the date offered in the
revised text of MMY's 'Our Guiding Light' in 1965) - corresponding
with Pausha 6th 1925 in the Vikrami calendar - a date hitherto
unmentioned in connection with Guru Dev.
Since Guru Dev's birthday is celebrated, it would be good to know the
correct date of his birth. Does anyone have any relevant information?
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[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's birthdate
Various birthdates have been offered for Guru Dev, Shankaracharya
Swami Brahmanand Saraswati.
In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev ('Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' by
Shri Rameshwar Tiwari, published 1965) the birthdate is given
as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii, vikrama samvat 1928' i.e.
Margashirsha 10th 1928, whilst the Western calendar date is
calculated to be 'December 21, 1870'.
In an early version of Brahmachari Mahesh's 'Our Guiding Light'
(included in 'The Beacon Light of the Himalayas' published 1955) it
is stated:- 'He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928
(equivalent to December 1871)'.
It is generally accepted that there is a difference of fifty-six /
fifty-seven years between the Vikram and Gregorian calendars. Checking
with the computer program Calendar Magic, the Vikrami date is shown
to be equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1871 in the Gregorian
calendar.
However, a different date is offered by the Transcendental Meditation
organisation, that of 20th December 1968 (the date offered in the
revised text of MMY's 'Our Guiding Light' in 1965) - corresponding
with Pausha 6th 1925 in the Vikrami calendar - a date hitherto
unmentioned in connection with Guru Dev.
Since Guru Dev's birthday is celebrated, it would be good to know the
correct date of his birth. Does anyone have any relevant information?
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's birthdate
Various birthdates have been offered for Guru Dev, Shankaracharya
Swami Brahmanand Saraswati.
In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev ('Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' by
Shri Rameshwar Tiwari, published 1965) the birthdate is given
as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii, vikrama samvat 1928' i.e.
Margashirsha 10th 1928, whilst the Western calendar date is
calculated to be 'December 21, 1870'.
In an early version of Brahmachari Mahesh's 'Our Guiding Light'
(included in 'The Beacon Light of the Himalayas' published 1955) it
is stated:- 'He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928
(equivalent to December 1871)'.
It is generally accepted that there is a difference of fifty-six /
fifty-seven years between the Vikam and Gregorian calendars. Checking
with the computer program Calendar Magic, the Vikrami date is shown
to be equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1871 in the Gregorian
calendar.
However, a different date is offered by the Transcendental Meditation
organisation, that of 20th December 1968 (the date offered in the
revised text of MMY's 'Our Guiding Light' in 1965) - corresponding
with Pausha 6th 1925 in the Vikami calendar - a date hitherto
unmentioned in connection with Guru Dev.
Since Guru Dev's birthday is celebrated, it would be good to know the
correct date of his birth. Does anyone have any relevant information?
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
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[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's birthdate
Various birthdates for Guru Dev, Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand
Saraswati, have been offered at different times.
In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev ('Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' by
Shri Rameshwar Tiwari, published 1965) the birthdate is given
as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii, vikrama samvat 1928' i.e.
Margashirsha 10th 1928, whilst the Western calendar date is
calculated to be 'December 21, 1870'.
In an early version of Brahmachari Mahesh's 'Our Guiding Light'
(included in 'The Beacon Light of the Himalayas' published 1955) it
is stated:- 'He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928
(equivalent to December 1871)'.
It is generally accepted that there is a difference of fifty-seven
years between the Vikam and Gregorian calendars. Checking with the
computer program Calendar Magic, the Vikrami date is shown to be
equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1871.
However, a different date is offered by the Transcendental Meditation
organisation, that of 20th December 1868 (the date offered in the
revised text of MMY's 'Our Guiding Light' in 1965) - corresponding
with Pausha 6th 1925 in the Vikami calendar - a date hitherto
unmentioned in connection with Guru Dev.
Since Guru Dev's birthday is celebrated, it would be useful to know
the true date. Does anyone have any relevant information?
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
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and click 'Join This Group!'
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[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev's birthdate
Various birthdates for Guru Dev, Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand
Saraswati, have been offered at different times.
In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev ('Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' by
Shri Rameshwar Tiwari, published 1965) the birthdate is given
as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii, vikrama samvat 1928' i.e.
Margashirsha 10th 1928, whilst the Western calendar date is
calculated to be 'December 21, 1870'.
In an early version of Brahmachari Mahesh's 'Our Guiding Light'
(included in 'The Beacon Light of the Himalayas' published 1955) it
is stated:- 'He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928
(equivalent to December 1871)'.
It is generally accepted that there is a difference of fifty-seven
years between the Vikam and Gregorian calendars. Checking with the
computer program Calendar Magic, the Vikrami date is shown to be
equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1871 in the Gregorian calendar.
However, a different date is offered by the Transcendental Meditation
organisation, that of 20th December 1968 (the date offered in the
revised text of MMY's 'Our Guiding Light' in 1965) - corresponding
with Pausha 6th 1925 in the Vikami calendar - a date hitherto
unmentioned in connection with Guru Dev.
Since his birth is celebrated, it would be useful to know the correct
birthdate, if possible. Does anyone have further pertinent
information?
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-->
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
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[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev birthday
Various dates have been given for Guru Dev's birthday. In the Hindi biography of Guru Dev (compiled by Rameshwar Tiwari and published 1965) the birthdate is given as 'maargashiirshha shukla dashamii [10th], vikrama samvat 1928' and the Western calendar date is given as 'December 21, 1870'. Whilst in an early version of 'Our Guiding Light' (composed by Brahmachari Mahesh aka Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and published 1955) it is stated:- "He was born on Margashirsh Shukla 10 Samvat 1928" which was then thought to be 'equivalent to December 1871'. Checking with a computer calendar, the agreed Vikrami date is held to be equivalent to Thursday 21st December 1870. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM in Hungary - attn: Ron F
TM links in Hungary: http://tminfo.hu/modules.php?name=TM-kozpontok --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I know a person from the net living in Romania that is interested to get initiated > in TM. Anyone with email or phone contacts for a TM teacher living there, please let > me know and I will forward it. If there is nothing in Romania, then any contacts in > Hungry may be helpful. > > Please send response directly to : > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Thanks > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM in Romania / Hungary - attn: Ron F
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I know a person from the net living in Romania that is interested to get initiated > in TM. Anyone with email or phone contacts for a TM teacher living there, please let > me know and I will forward it. If there is nothing in Romania, then any contacts in > Hungry may be helpful. > > Please send response directly to : > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Thanks > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where is Brahmasthan?
Looking up Jabalpur again (this time trying to identify where Raj Varma first met Guru Dev) when I discovered this rather useful mapping site:- encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761554576/Jabalpur.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I searched for Katni, Madhya Pradesh, India 483 332 > > > and it highlighted Murwara. Maybe thats another name for > > > the village, or a nearby city (or a random software glitch.) > > > > > > Murwara is at: > > > Latitute: 23 52 16 N > > > Longitude: 80 25 5 E > > > > The Times Atlas of the World has a listing for Katni: > > > > 23.47N > > 80.29E > > Additionally, I've just uploaded a macro shot of the area in question > from my Atlas: > > http://alex.natel.net/ffl/images/india_brahmasthan.jpg > > Chichli is WSW of Jabalpur (left and a little down) and Katni is NNE > of Jabalpur (up and a little to the right). My atlas gives the > coordinates for Chichli as: > > 22.48N > 78.52E > > A rough measurement puts the two cities about 200 kilometers apart. > > Alex > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Purusha's descent from Heavenly Mountain unto Earth
ingrained work ethic is ingrained too. Ingrained sense of being the doer, ingrained sense of being the giver. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The truth is that you've got the > > > > idea that everyone on Purusha is a sponger and a baby... > > > > > > Not everyone, but certainly this turkey. :-) > > > > Of course it isn't "everyone". > > > > But you're close, Barry. And if you had more contact with the > > TMO and all things TM than you have had over the past 20 years > > you would know that you aren't too far off the mark. > > I knew enough of these guys during my time with the > TMO to know what they're like. The vibe is unmis- > takable. > > > There are two types of people on purusha: > > > > 1) Those that are living off of trust funds or inheritances. And > > since, thankfully, Purusha is not THAT expensive, if you've > > inherited $200,000-300,000 (certainly NOT out of the range of what > > one would inherit in this day and age in America), you can pay > > your monthly cost of Purusha and even have a little "tuck" money > > budgeted for candy bars and new socks when you can go to town > > once a month. > > Nothing wrong with this, if what you want out of life > is to sit in a room with your eyes closed most of your > life. At least they're paying for it themselves. > > > 2) Those that don't have trust funds or inheritances. And they > > are the stereotypical "turkey" that you describe above. > > Well, you don't really have to look very far to find > the MODEL for this behavior, do you? > > I mean, what could be clearer? It's Maharishi himself. > The guy has turned begging and just assuming that other > people should pay for his life into an artform. He's > become a billionaire by doing this. > > > AND, Barry, if, > > like I said, you were closer to the TMO all these years, you would > > know from first-hand experience that this is so because you would > > be solicited every other month from one or another Purusha asking > > you to help them meet their monthly Purusha cost. > > The thing that's fascinating to me is the "trickle- > down craziness" involved with this. It's not just a > case of some lazy fucks realizing that there is an > easy way to avoid working, and that it's called > begging. That's just one side of the phenomenon and > of the conditioning. > > The other side of the conditioning is seen in the > *sponsors*, the people who have been taught that > there is some *benefit* to themselves that accrues > when they pay so that these guys and gals never have > to work. It's a remarkably symbiotic relationship; > one side of the equation couldn't exist without > the other. > > I know that a lot of people here and in spiritual > trips in general just assume that this is all a given, > and that it's always worked this way -- people who > have chosen a full-time spiritual "career" being > supported by those who have money and have chosen > a more householder path. I'm challenging the very > *idea* because I really believe that it's a *bad* > idea, and that most of the problems that one can > find in *any* spiritual tradition spring from this > assumption, and from this practice. Historically, > the spiritual traditions in which the monks or > clergy pay their own way in life, and are *not* > supported by the "rank and file" members of the > organization, seem to me to be much cleaner and > spiritually healthier. > > Just *think* about it for a moment -- it's one of > the biggest scams in human history. In almost every > era and in every tradition, all that you had to do > to avoid getting a job like everybody else was to > claim to be "spiritual" and get other people to pay > so that you could be "spiritual" full time. I'm > open to the possibility that many of these full-time > teachers might have done a few nice things for the > world, but when you look at it objectively, it's > really quite amazing that no one really challenges > the status quo of this whole scene and questions > it. The meme of the rank-and-file rabble paying > for the lives of the spiritual elite is that > taken for granted, that ingrained in the collective > consciousness. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, g
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where is Brahmasthan?
Thank you Alex, the macro view of map well appreciated. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I searched for Katni, Madhya Pradesh, India 483 332 > > > and it highlighted Murwara. Maybe thats another name for > > > the village, or a nearby city (or a random software glitch.) > > > > > > Murwara is at: > > > Latitute: 23 52 16 N > > > Longitude: 80 25 5 E > > > > The Times Atlas of the World has a listing for Katni: > > > > 23.47N > > 80.29E > > Additionally, I've just uploaded a macro shot of the area in question > from my Atlas: > > http://alex.natel.net/ffl/images/india_brahmasthan.jpg > > Chichli is WSW of Jabalpur (left and a little down) and Katni is NNE > of Jabalpur (up and a little to the right). My atlas gives the > coordinates for Chichli as: > > 22.48N > 78.52E > > A rough measurement puts the two cities about 200 kilometers apart. > > Alex > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where is Brahmasthan?
Your calculation to get a 'centre' of India results in co-ordinates that are almost identical with those given for Chichli (the alleged village of MMY's birth). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Apparently the tallest building project is at 'Village Karaundi, Tahsil > > Sihora, District Katni, Madhya Pradesh'. > > So that should make it easier - does anyone know how to get the > > longitude and latitude of this village? > > You could call or email them. > > Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Vedic Vishwavidyalaya > Village - Karaundi, Tahsil - Sihora > Post - Paan Umariya > Dist. - Katni, Madhya Pradesh, India 483 332 > Tel: +0762-522-0343 > > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > I searched for Katni, Madhya Pradesh, India 483 332 > and it highlighted Murwara. Maybe thats another name for the village, > or a nearby city (or a random software glitch.) > > Murwara is at: > Latitute: 23 52 16 N > Longitude: 80 25 5 E > > To find center, I simple took length and width of India and divided > each by half. Not rocket science. > > I found this to be at: > Latitute: 22 55 22 N > Longitude: 78 27 40 E > > But that was modern India. I wonder if M and all are using ancient > Bharata-- including Pakistan, Bangladesh and all. That would move the > center quite near Marwara. > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The project of building the world's tallest building in the centre of > > > India - Brahmasthan - is well publicised. > > > > > > http://showcase.netins.net/web/tkz/BigBldg/ > > > According to this link, Brahmasthan is to be at the center of India, > > > some '30 km northeast of Jabalpur, in the state of Madhya Pradesh'. > > > > > > It is documented that some few miles northeast of Jabalpur is/was the > > > village Chichli, (near Gadawara) in Madhya Pradesh, some 150 > > kilometres > > > east of Bhopal. The co-ordinates for Chichli are 22.83°N 78.82°E > > > > > > Chichli is said to be the birthplace of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. > > > > > > Does anyone know the precise co-ordinates of the 'Brahmasthan' site? > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where is Brahmasthan?
Apparently the tallest building project is at 'Village Karaundi, Tahsil Sihora, District Katni, Madhya Pradesh'. So that should make it easier - does anyone know how to get the longitude and latitude of this village? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The project of building the world's tallest building in the centre of > India - Brahmasthan - is well publicised. > > http://showcase.netins.net/web/tkz/BigBldg/ > According to this link, Brahmasthan is to be at the center of India, > some '30 km northeast of Jabalpur, in the state of Madhya Pradesh'. > > It is documented that some few miles northeast of Jabalpur is/was the > village Chichli, (near Gadawara) in Madhya Pradesh, some 150 kilometres > east of Bhopal. The co-ordinates for Chichli are 22.83°N 78.82°E > > Chichli is said to be the birthplace of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. > > Does anyone know the precise co-ordinates of the 'Brahmasthan' site? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where is Brahmasthan?
No interpretation of my post necessary, I said what I meant to say. One way or the other, whether MMY was born there or not, people will remember MMY when thinking of this project of the tallest building. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone other than MMY came up with the notion that this site is at the centre of India. Very likely people from this area have been speculating on this topic for generations. Nevertheless, having spotted the coincidence it would be interesting to determine whether Brahmasthan and Chichli have the same co- ordinates. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The project of building the world's tallest building in the centre of > > India - Brahmasthan - is well publicised. > > > > http://showcase.netins.net/web/tkz/BigBldg/ > > According to this link, Brahmasthan is to be at the center of India, > > some '30 km northeast of Jabalpur, in the state of Madhya Pradesh'. > > > > It is documented that some few miles northeast of Jabalpur is/was the > > village Chichli, (near Gadawara) in Madhya Pradesh, some 150 > kilometres > > east of Bhopal. The co-ordinates for Chichli are 22.83°N 78.82°E > > > > Chichli is said to be the birthplace of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. > > > > Does anyone know the precise co-ordinates of the 'Brahmasthan' site? > > What Paul means to say here, I think, is that he > suspects MMY has decided the Brahmastan of India > is at his own birthplace. > > Did I interpret your post correctly, Paul? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Where is Brahmasthan?
The project of building the world's tallest building in the centre of India - Brahmasthan - is well publicised. http://showcase.netins.net/web/tkz/BigBldg/ According to this link, Brahmasthan is to be at the center of India, some '30 km northeast of Jabalpur, in the state of Madhya Pradesh'. It is documented that some few miles northeast of Jabalpur is/was the village Chichli, (near Gadawara) in Madhya Pradesh, some 150 kilometres east of Bhopal. The co-ordinates for Chichli are 22.83°N 78.82°E Chichli is said to be the birthplace of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Does anyone know the precise co-ordinates of the 'Brahmasthan' site? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] rare quotations about Guru Dev from MMY
Extract from 'Beacon Light' - October 1955 "One unique principle of the Great sage that distinguished him completely from other living, saints, was that he did not accept money as a gift from his visitors or disciples. He was running the greatest religious institution of Northern India at his own expense, the sources of which were known only to himself." "He stood at the pinnacle of human development and moved as only Jeeven- Muktas can move under the strong hold of "prarabdha". He for himself would allow things to go on as they are ordained by the hand of destiny, but His devotees have many a time changed the course of fate of themselves and of the people. Innunerable instances can be counted when by virtue of His Dhyanam, His devotees have wrought miracles worked in the innerman and transformed the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of gold." Full text at:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Mahesh speaks on Guru Dev in 1952
The transcript of the 1952 speech was sourced in India by a friend in 1974, some years prior to the adoption of the 'sidhi' spelling by the TM-Sidhi techniquers. The other typos were also present in the transcript. Whilst re-typing the transcript I inadvertently left out the opening line of the speech. Both the 'missing line' and adjustments to the typos are included in the full transcript displayed at the following:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Who typed this? Apart from typos, the > spelling of siddhi is per modern Movement > service mark. Maharishi definitely wouldn't > have written it that way in 1952, and it looks > like something edited, sloppily, by a recent > acolyte. Was anything else revised or deleted? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The Great Saint of the Himalayas is Coming > > to Shower His Blessings on the Metropolis. > > > > The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. > > Press conference convened by Shri Shankaracharya Reception Committee, Delhi on the > 15th Oct., 1952 at 5 p.m. in the Young Man's Tennis Club Queen's Gardens, in connection > with the visit of HIS HOLINESS SHRI JAGATGURU SHANKARACHARYA MAHARAJ OF > JYOTIRMATH. > > ** > > It gives me a great pleasure to welcome you all and have your company here this > afternoon. It gives me enough encouragement and support to acquaint you with the > details of the mission for whose fulfilment His Holiness Shri Jagatguru Shankaracharya > Swami BRAHMANAND SARASWATI MAHARAJ will be visiting your city about the 12th of > November 1952 and stay here for about a month for Dharmopdesh. > > > > Swami Brahmand Saraswati Maharaj, the present Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath > Badarikashram (in the Himalayas) is a magnetic personality with a sweet amalgam of High > Wisdom and Love of humanity. He combines in himself the Knowledge of the self with the > mysterious powers -- the sidhis arising out of yogic perfection and hard penances, which > he has undergone throughout his life. He is a great living yogi and scholar and is revered > by millions of Hindus as their Supreme Religious head. > > > > This great Saint of the modern age was born in U.P. in a well to do and renowned > Brahman family in 1871 and was enthroned to the seat of His Holiness Jagatguru > Shankaracharya in 1941 at Banares, during the ninth session of the All India Sanatan > Dharma Maha Sammelan convened by the Bharat Dharma Mahamandal in conjunction with > a countrywide support of almost all the ruling princes and different socioreligious > institutions all over the country. It may be recalled that it was a long persuation of about > twenty years which could convince Param Virakt Swami Brahmanand Saraswati to accept > the great responsibility of the Shankaracharya at the age of seventy. > > > > From the tender age of nine when he came out of his home in Search of God, till this > time, his life was mostly spent in the lonely hidden regions of the Himalayas, Vindya Giris > and the Amarkantakas which are rarely frequented by men and are chiefly inhabited by > wild animals. For years together he has lived in hidden caves and thick forests where even > the midday sun frets and fumes in vain to dispel the darkness that may be said to have > made a permanent abode there in those solitary and distant regions. > > > > But today he is easily accessible as he is now the presiding head of Shri Jyotirmath > which is the greatest religious institution of the Hindus of Northern India, covering all > different creeds and sampradayas and branches lying under the fold of Hindu Religions. > > > > One unique principle of the great Sage that distinguishes him completely from other > living saints of today is that he does not accept money as gift from his visitors or disciples. > > > > This brief description attempts to mirror a few hurried and short glimpses of the life > journey of this great living sage who has actually transformed into a living fact the inner > latent potentiality of the soul. He has known the great universal Truth, whose realisation is > teh aim of the entire scheme of life. For him the mists of ignorance have completely > disappeared and having known the Divine Reality he has verrily become an embodiment of > the great Divinity. > > > > His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to > broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that > is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinacle of Self development, > he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through > his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahmachari Mahesh speaks on Guru Dev in 1952
The full text can be viewed at:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Who typed this? Apart from typos, the > spelling of siddhi is per modern Movement > service mark. Maharishi definitely wouldn't > have written it that way in 1952, and it looks > like something edited, sloppily, by a recent > acolyte. Was anything else revised or deleted? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The Great Saint of the Himalayas is Coming > > to Shower His Blessings on the Metropolis. > > > > The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. > > Press conference convened by Shri Shankaracharya Reception Committee, Delhi on the > 15th Oct., 1952 at 5 p.m. in the Young Man's Tennis Club Queen's Gardens, in connection > with the visit of HIS HOLINESS SHRI JAGATGURU SHANKARACHARYA MAHARAJ OF > JYOTIRMATH. > > ** > > It gives me a great pleasure to welcome you all and have your company here this > afternoon. It gives me enough encouragement and support to acquaint you with the > details of the mission for whose fulfilment His Holiness Shri Jagatguru Shankaracharya > Swami BRAHMANAND SARASWATI MAHARAJ will be visiting your city about the 12th of > November 1952 and stay here for about a month for Dharmopdesh. > > > > Swami Brahmand Saraswati Maharaj, the present Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath > Badarikashram (in the Himalayas) is a magnetic personality with a sweet amalgam of High > Wisdom and Love of humanity. He combines in himself the Knowledge of the self with the > mysterious powers -- the sidhis arising out of yogic perfection and hard penances, which > he has undergone throughout his life. He is a great living yogi and scholar and is revered > by millions of Hindus as their Supreme Religious head. > > > > This great Saint of the modern age was born in U.P. in a well to do and renowned > Brahman family in 1871 and was enthroned to the seat of His Holiness Jagatguru > Shankaracharya in 1941 at Banares, during the ninth session of the All India Sanatan > Dharma Maha Sammelan convened by the Bharat Dharma Mahamandal in conjunction with > a countrywide support of almost all the ruling princes and different socioreligious > institutions all over the country. It may be recalled that it was a long persuation of about > twenty years which could convince Param Virakt Swami Brahmanand Saraswati to accept > the great responsibility of the Shankaracharya at the age of seventy. > > > > From the tender age of nine when he came out of his home in Search of God, till this > time, his life was mostly spent in the lonely hidden regions of the Himalayas, Vindya Giris > and the Amarkantakas which are rarely frequented by men and are chiefly inhabited by > wild animals. For years together he has lived in hidden caves and thick forests where even > the midday sun frets and fumes in vain to dispel the darkness that may be said to have > made a permanent abode there in those solitary and distant regions. > > > > But today he is easily accessible as he is now the presiding head of Shri Jyotirmath > which is the greatest religious institution of the Hindus of Northern India, covering all > different creeds and sampradayas and branches lying under the fold of Hindu Religions. > > > > One unique principle of the great Sage that distinguishes him completely from other > living saints of today is that he does not accept money as gift from his visitors or disciples. > > > > This brief description attempts to mirror a few hurried and short glimpses of the life > journey of this great living sage who has actually transformed into a living fact the inner > latent potentiality of the soul. He has known the great universal Truth, whose realisation is > teh aim of the entire scheme of life. For him the mists of ignorance have completely > disappeared and having known the Divine Reality he has verrily become an embodiment of > the great Divinity. > > > > His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to > broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that > is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinacle of Self development, > he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through > his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of > gold. > > > > His entire personality emanates the sweet perfume of spirituality. His race radiates that > rare light which comprises love, authority, serenity and self assuredness that comes only > by ritious living and Divine Realisation -- one feels as if some ancient Maharishi > mentioned in the pages of the Upanishads has assumed human form
[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy January 12th
Since nature doesn't seem to be guided by morality, but by urge and by force, what on earth does 'in accord with total Natural Law' mean? It seems instead merely to be a euphemism meaning to agree with whatever MMY is saying at any one time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Letter from Mother Divine lady: > > Dearest Friends of Mine, > > Today in his traditional celebration of the new year, Maharishi inaugurated > the year of Reconstruction of the Whole World to be Heaven on Earth. Rajas > and Ministers at the Global Capital of the Global Country of World Peace > were connect from the Brahmasthan of India. A glorious capital is being > established there in the center of India to radiate an influence of peace to > the whole world. Pictures of plans for this new Capital were extremely > inspiring and beautiful. > > What was most inspiring to me was that Maharishi presided over the > celebration in person in the presence of Maharaja Raam, Rajas, and > Ministers. His never-ending dedication to the creation of a world in accord > with total Natural Law is such a blessing for the world from the deepest > level. > > Not content to enjoy that level on his own, he has structured a global > administration to bring the knowledge of how to enjoy life in enlightenment > to everyone on earth, so that peace, happiness and prosperity may reign in > every country. This administration centers around knowledge, which means > Veda. Veda is the Constitution of the Universe, the administering > intelligence of Nature. > > Mother Divine in the USA hoped to attend this celebration in Vlodrop, but we > celebrated here in North Carolina as we prepare now to move to Vedic City in > Iowa soon. We are really happy to be moving to Maharishi Stapathya Ved > buildings there. > > If you contributed to my visit to Holland, I deeply appreciate your support > and want you to know that the funds will be used now for our move to Vedic > City. It is such a joy for me to see your dedication to Maharishi's plans > for the blossoming of heaven for everyone on earth through groups of Mother > Divine around the globe. > > Mother Divine's coherence and bliss will be an added engine to the > establishment of an ideal city in the USA, Vedic City. It is going to be > very special to be there, and we are really looking forward to it. > > Wishing you an especially wonderful New Year. > > Jai Guru Dev > > With deepest gratitude and bliss, > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: LSD??
You mention the alleged connection between STP and the military. But wasn't that also true of LSD? I understand that the first LSD to hit the streets was from the government experiments at Menlo Park where Ken Kesey got paid to take LSD and speed. During that period he wrote 'One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Not just LSD on this one... STP with LSD > > S(tars) T(hat) P(lay) with L(aughing) S(am's) D(ice) > > Yup, and it shows. :-) > > STP was a short-lived hallucinogen that was supposedly > developed by the military as a weapon. Its effects lasted > for several days and were designed to incapacitate those > who took it. The idea was to dump it into an enemy's > water supply and then roll into town and take over > while everyone was trippin'. Imagine the incredulity > in the Army weapons division when hippies in the late > 60s got ahold of the formula and started taking it > for fun. > > Nothing like acid, really. I can't imagine anyone > mixing them and thinking it would produce an enjoyable > experience. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE LYRICS > > > > > > Lyrics - Jimi Hendrix Lyrics - THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH > LAUGHING > > > SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > > Artist(Band):Jimi Hendrix > > > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > > Send Jimi Hendrix polyphonic ringtone to your cell phone > > > > > > STARS UP ABOVE THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE > > > Gave me this fear that it weren't the world for us > > > THE ZODIAC sign was gleaming and came THROUGH THE SKIES > > > IT WILL HAPPEN SOON, FOR YOU > > > > > > All right everybody let's get together now > > > AND A WAY WE GO > > > YEAH > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, come in, thank you, thank you > > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, right now > > > WE'D LIKE TO BRING TO YOU OUR ah one and only FREINDLY > NEIGHBORHOOD > > > EXPERIENCE Makers, Yeah > > > All RIGHT NOW LISTEN > > > yeah baby, thank you very much > > > THE MILKY WAY EXPRESS IS LOADED, ALL ABOARD > > > I PROMISE EACH AND EVERY ONE of YOU YOU WON'T BE BORED > > > Now let's take time to keep everybody honest and straight > > > WHAT I'M REALLY thinking ABOUT > > > IS MY BRAND-NEW PAIR OF BUTTERFLY ROLLER SKATES > > > Owww! > > > > > > Thank you, thank you > > > And I watch them ride! > > > Yeah > > > Um, I meant to say that, there'll be no throwing cigarette butts > > out > > > the window > > > No throwing cigarette butts out the window, thank you thank you > > > I hope all of you brought your tooth...brush > > > Yeah > > > NOW TO the RIGHT YOU'LL SEE SATURN > > > Outta sight, really outta sight > > > And IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT, YOU'LL SEE MARS > > > Yeah, Yeah > > > I HOPE all of you BROUGHT YOUR PARACHUTES WITH YOU > > > HEY, Hey LOOK OUT! > > > LOOK OUT FOR THAT DOOR! > > > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > > > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > > > OH, WELL > > > THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES > > > And now we're coming through the ah, milky way expressway > > > Yeah > > > With your corn flakes, stuff like that, > > > Milky way, yeah > > > HEY, EVERYTHING IS ALL RIGHT, and out of sight > > > Owww! > > > Uh no, no (laughs) > > > If you look around you you will see a few minds being blown > > > Exactly, exactly baby > > > Yeah > > > I hope your all enjoying your ride > > > I am! > > > Aww! > > > Yeah, > > > (I forgot to say that) Goodbye > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Again India does it
I haven't noticed you jumping in and slamming 'scorpionland' material. Until this unpleasant backdoor racism stops then Jason is right to post material to balance it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > South-African Model Gang-Raped in Mumbai, India > > > Dude, in the future, please keep this shit to yourself. Thanks. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: LSD??
STP? according to www.streetdrugs.org DOM (4-Methyl-2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine) was introduced to the San Francisco drug scene in the late 1960's and given the nickname "STP," an acronym for "Serenity, Tranquility, and Peace." Doses of 1 to 3 milligrams generally produce mood alterations and minor perceptual alterations while larger doses can produce pronounced hallucinations that last from 8 to 10 hours. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not just LSD on this one... STP with LSD > S(tars) T(hat) P(lay) with L(aughing) S(am's) D(ice) > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE LYRICS > > > > Lyrics - Jimi Hendrix Lyrics - THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING > > SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > Artist(Band):Jimi Hendrix > > > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > Send Jimi Hendrix polyphonic ringtone to your cell phone > > > > STARS UP ABOVE THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE > > Gave me this fear that it weren't the world for us > > THE ZODIAC sign was gleaming and came THROUGH THE SKIES > > IT WILL HAPPEN SOON, FOR YOU > > > > All right everybody let's get together now > > AND A WAY WE GO > > YEAH > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, come in, thank you, thank you > > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, right now > > WE'D LIKE TO BRING TO YOU OUR ah one and only FREINDLY NEIGHBORHOOD > > EXPERIENCE Makers, Yeah > > All RIGHT NOW LISTEN > > yeah baby, thank you very much > > THE MILKY WAY EXPRESS IS LOADED, ALL ABOARD > > I PROMISE EACH AND EVERY ONE of YOU YOU WON'T BE BORED > > Now let's take time to keep everybody honest and straight > > WHAT I'M REALLY thinking ABOUT > > IS MY BRAND-NEW PAIR OF BUTTERFLY ROLLER SKATES > > Owww! > > > > Thank you, thank you > > And I watch them ride! > > Yeah > > Um, I meant to say that, there'll be no throwing cigarette butts > out > > the window > > No throwing cigarette butts out the window, thank you thank you > > I hope all of you brought your tooth...brush > > Yeah > > NOW TO the RIGHT YOU'LL SEE SATURN > > Outta sight, really outta sight > > And IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT, YOU'LL SEE MARS > > Yeah, Yeah > > I HOPE all of you BROUGHT YOUR PARACHUTES WITH YOU > > HEY, Hey LOOK OUT! > > LOOK OUT FOR THAT DOOR! > > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > > OH, WELL > > THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES > > And now we're coming through the ah, milky way expressway > > Yeah > > With your corn flakes, stuff like that, > > Milky way, yeah > > HEY, EVERYTHING IS ALL RIGHT, and out of sight > > Owww! > > Uh no, no (laughs) > > If you look around you you will see a few minds being blown > > Exactly, exactly baby > > Yeah > > I hope your all enjoying your ride > > I am! > > Aww! > > Yeah, > > (I forgot to say that) Goodbye > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: LSD??
Not just LSD on this one... STP with LSD S(tars) T(hat) P(lay) with L(aughing) S(am's) D(ice) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE LYRICS > > Lyrics - Jimi Hendrix Lyrics - THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING > SAM'S DICE Lyrics > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > Artist(Band):Jimi Hendrix > > THE STARS THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE Lyrics > Send Jimi Hendrix polyphonic ringtone to your cell phone > > STARS UP ABOVE THAT PLAY WITH LAUGHING SAM'S DICE > Gave me this fear that it weren't the world for us > THE ZODIAC sign was gleaming and came THROUGH THE SKIES > IT WILL HAPPEN SOON, FOR YOU > > All right everybody let's get together now > AND A WAY WE GO > YEAH > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, come in, thank you, thank you > THANK YOU VERY MUCH, right now > WE'D LIKE TO BRING TO YOU OUR ah one and only FREINDLY NEIGHBORHOOD > EXPERIENCE Makers, Yeah > All RIGHT NOW LISTEN > yeah baby, thank you very much > THE MILKY WAY EXPRESS IS LOADED, ALL ABOARD > I PROMISE EACH AND EVERY ONE of YOU YOU WON'T BE BORED > Now let's take time to keep everybody honest and straight > WHAT I'M REALLY thinking ABOUT > IS MY BRAND-NEW PAIR OF BUTTERFLY ROLLER SKATES > Owww! > > Thank you, thank you > And I watch them ride! > Yeah > Um, I meant to say that, there'll be no throwing cigarette butts out > the window > No throwing cigarette butts out the window, thank you thank you > I hope all of you brought your tooth...brush > Yeah > NOW TO the RIGHT YOU'LL SEE SATURN > Outta sight, really outta sight > And IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT, YOU'LL SEE MARS > Yeah, Yeah > I HOPE all of you BROUGHT YOUR PARACHUTES WITH YOU > HEY, Hey LOOK OUT! > LOOK OUT FOR THAT DOOR! > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR! > OH, WELL > THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES > And now we're coming through the ah, milky way expressway > Yeah > With your corn flakes, stuff like that, > Milky way, yeah > HEY, EVERYTHING IS ALL RIGHT, and out of sight > Owww! > Uh no, no (laughs) > If you look around you you will see a few minds being blown > Exactly, exactly baby > Yeah > I hope your all enjoying your ride > I am! > Aww! > Yeah, > (I forgot to say that) Goodbye > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's new(?) title
Assininity? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Râja Nader Râm, Jan 12th 2006: > > > > His Divine Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi > > Wow. In both of those titles, only one word (the > family name, Nader or Mahesh) is not made up. > What is it about human beings that convinces them > that if they add more honorifics to a person's > name, the person becomes more honorable? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Guru Dev greeting cards
Given the dozens of extant photographic images of Guru Dev, it is odd that the TMO should resort to morphing images of him, creating misleading pictures of the environment he lived in. However, some at FFL might be interested in the images available at the following link. http://www.gurudevdarshan.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
