[FairfieldLife] Judy Stein exposes her true self !
The honesty that Judy Stein demands from others, finally emerges from her. She shows us from where her truth springs eternal. In post 97850: I can't begin to express my contempt. >From what I have observed, this sentence precisely captures the essence of Judy Stein. CONTEMPT! Her contempt, for any interpretation of a situation, other than her interpretation, soils her every utterance. From this ocean of contempt, flows what we (unfortunately) bear witness to every day on FFL. Of course she can't imagine any person could change over the years. She is positive everyone holds onto the past as tenaciously as she does. How could anyone possibly change? Those people are not truthful or intellectually honest. Any change is just an act to try and fool her and to keep her from uncovering the truth. These people and there ideas deserve nothing but CONTEMPT! No matter what you try to disguise it as Judy, it still comes through. Thanks for finally being honest. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Judy Stein exposes her true self !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, it's primarily the folks I've challenged (my guess is this anon person has been one of them in the past) who have said this, most notably Barry. Yes, this would be a very accurate guess when seasoned with contempt. But when contempt is absent, it is a very inaccurate guess. We have never interacted in any way. But *he* decided to pursue it, even after I suggested that was a bad idea--again, because I didn't want to get into an argument with me. because I didn't want to get into an argument with me. Here lies the basis for great insight. Contempt always involves some aspect of a person disliking another aspect of themselves. It is then externalized onto a seeming other. Alas, there is no other! Until this is recognized and realized, inner and outer conflict and their natural consequence, contempt, continue. There are better seasonings for the feast of life. Yes? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Unsinkable Judy Stein . . .
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip I like you too, Judy, for what it's worth. Don't let my recent comments suggest otherwise. You write great stuff sometimes. You would really rock if you could stick to that stuff and drop the bickering, but I guess none of us can help being who we are. FOAD. Fetal Origins of Adult Disease? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hi from Curtis
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Google Groups tell us that your exchanges with Curtis happened between February 1997 and November 1997. THAT'S ALMOST 10 FUCKING YEARS AGO!!! Maybe the poor bastard is a different person? Maybe he's changed (assuming that he was this horrible person that you paint him out as being)? Why in heaven's name can't you give it up, Judy? Do you not see your obsessive post (below) as being a tad bit kooky? A tad bit kooky? How about way kooky and so typical we've all grown used to it, but watch anyway, like people rubbernecking at a car accident? More like a fine whine that grows more bitter with age. I'm sure the cognitive dissonance is wearing on her, defending something long dead, as this latest obsessive rant from Ms. Stein shows. Can't transcend these deep attachments. I feel her pain. She's lost yet another imagined bet. But what an actice imagination! Thats the power of TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hi from Curtis
Shemp, why do you have such a hard-on for Judy? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: snip She's lost yet another imagined bet. But what an actice imagination! Thats the power of TM. Actually, I won the bet. I bet that Curtis, having ignored my suggestion that he didn't really want to get me started, would turn tail and run once he had done so. Uh, Judy? (as the men in white coats quietly enter the room) Hate to break this to you but, see, in order for there to be an actual bet there has to be two different people that actually agree to be the two opposing parties to the bet (the men in white coats get out a shirt with really long arms). Writing I bet Curtis does or doesn't do this or that thing unilaterally on this forum doesn't actually constitute a bet (as men with white coats fit our subject into shirt with really long arms and the sound of velcro is heard). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Kid in the White House
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't think of any president, not even Reagan, who would have give such an inept, inappropriate response. Always with Bush there is this inappropriate humor. He is just a child. Yet he has the power to launch a nuclear attack on Iran. How could this have happened to us? The annual White House Corespondents Dinner last night was pretty funny. Its being rebroadcast on C-Span. Bush spoke side by side with his comedic double -- who provided an inner world satirical view of Bush. Some was pretty ripping, even though this portion was a White House skit. Stephen Colbert -- former Jon Stewart alumnus and who now follows Stewart's Daily show (Colbert, a brilliant interviewer, satirizes O'Reily types, by feigning being one. 50% of his routine was quite funny and skewering of Bush -- though it got only mild laughs from the correspondents -- apparently too embarrassed to laugh too hard at swords that went deep into the President who was sitting right in front of them. Or, perhaps if they are not already Colbert fans, andseeing him for the first time, they needed a digestion period to fully absorb the nuances of Colbert's satire. (The other 50% of Colbert's routine was a bit weak, but still the premeise of the jokes showed promise -- but needed some refinement to rise above mediocre humor. ) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Kid in the White House
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: snip The annual White House Corespondents Dinner last night was pretty funny. Its being rebroadcast on C-Span. Bush spoke side by side with his comedic double -- who provided an inner world satirical view of Bush. Some was pretty ripping, even though this portion was a White House skit. Video clip of the second half of Colbert's performance: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/29.html The page includes a link to the C-Span rebroadcast, but it yields a Page Not Found error message. Hmmm... Complete (but imperfect) transcript on DemocraticUnderground.com: http://tinyurl.com/q8t47 Stephen Colbert -- former Jon Stewart alumnus and who now follows Stewart's Daily show (Colbert, a brilliant interviewer, satirizes O'Reily types, by feigning being one. 50% of his routine was quite funny and skewering of Bush -- though it got only mild laughs from the correspondents -- apparently too embarrassed to laugh too hard at swords that went deep into the President who was sitting right in front of them. Or, perhaps if they are not already Colbert fans, and seeing him for the first time, they needed a digestion period to fully absorb the nuances of Colbert's satire. (The other 50% of Colbert's routine was a bit weak, but still the premeise of the jokes showed promise -- but needed some refinement to rise above mediocre humor. ) This echoes my take. I'm not a huge Colbert fan, but he did get off some good ones. The video presentation of the faux press conference and its aftermath (which takes up most of the Crooks and Liars video, unfortunately) was quite weak, however, and ended the dinner on a really flat note. Agreed. But it made me wonder if Colbert was trying for an Andy Kaufmanesque moment -- making the audience squirm and feel uncomfortable for a prolonged period to make a point The point in this case being the opening question of the skit: Mr. President, why did we go into Iraq. My favorite line: And though I am a committed Christian, I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be it Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Second favorite: That was a good one. I felt also the section paraphrasing, I am like you Mr. President, like a man I decide from the gut, I don't rely on wimp ass facts. ... The president is steady as a rock, he believes on Wednesday what he beleived on Monday .. no matter what happened on Tuesday. It was right-on satire for the president, and also relevant to some discussions and posters here -- the fantasy world, non-rationalists, logic-be-damned, gut feelers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Kid in the White House
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: snip The annual White House Corespondents Dinner last night was pretty funny. Its being rebroadcast on C-Span. Bush spoke side by side with his comedic double -- who provided an inner world satirical view of Bush. Some was pretty ripping, even though this portion was a White House skit. Video clip of the second half of Colbert's performance: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/29.html The page includes a link to the C-Span rebroadcast, but it yields a Page Not Found error message. Hmmm... Complete (but imperfect) transcript on DemocraticUnderground.com: http://tinyurl.com/q8t47 Stephen Colbert -- former Jon Stewart alumnus and who now follows Stewart's Daily show (Colbert, a brilliant interviewer, satirizes O'Reily types, by feigning being one. 50% of his routine was quite funny and skewering of Bush -- though it got only mild laughs from the correspondents -- apparently too embarrassed to laugh too hard at swords that went deep into the President who was sitting right in front of them. Or, perhaps if they are not already Colbert fans, and seeing him for the first time, they needed a digestion period to fully absorb the nuances of Colbert's satire. (The other 50% of Colbert's routine was a bit weak, but still the premeise of the jokes showed promise -- but needed some refinement to rise above mediocre humor. ) This echoes my take. I'm not a huge Colbert fan, but he did get off some good ones. The video presentation of the faux press conference and its aftermath (which takes up most of the Crooks and Liars video, unfortunately) was quite weak, however, and ended the dinner on a really flat note. Agreed. But it made me wonder if Colbert was trying for an Andy Kaufmanesque moment -- making the audience squirm and feel uncomfortable for a prolonged period to make a point The point in this case being the opening question of the skit: Mr. President, why did we go into Iraq. My favorite line: And though I am a committed Christian, I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be it Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Second favorite: That was a good one. I felt also the following section was great, paraphrasing, I am like you Mr. President, like a man I decide from the gut, I don't rely on wimp ass facts. ... The president is steady as a rock, he believes on Wednesday what he beleived on Monday .. no matter what happened on Tuesday. It was right-on satire for the president, and also relevant to some discussions and posters here -- the fantasy world, non-rationalists, logic-be-damned, gut feelers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Genographic kit: trace your DNA history
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The book The 7 Daughters of Eve lays out the genetic argument that 95% of all people of white european ancestry descended from 7 women who left africa and settled elsewhere, I think about 45,000 yrs ago. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393323145/sr=8-1/qid=1146324757/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1423200-8312725?%5Fencoding=UTF8 Reviewer: D. B. Gibbons (Holladay, UT United States) - See all Many scientists have things to say, but few know how to say them. The Stephen Hawkings (A Brief History of Time) and Brian Fagans (Famines, Floods and Emperors) of the world are rare creatures, indeed. In The Seven Daughters of Eve Bryan Sykes proves he belongs in that small but fortunate club. This work is a remarkably well written narrative of Sykes' cutting edge research into the ancestry of modern humans using mitochondrial DNA. Unlike the DNA in the chromosomes of cell nuclei, which we inherit from both of our parents, mitochondrial DNA is inherited only from our mothers. It is also highly stable over time, which permits geneticists to determine with almost mathematical certainty the matrilineal genealogy of any human being on earth. To students of history, prehistory, archaeology and linguistics the conclusions he draws from his research are absolutely stunning. First, he concludes that all modern humans (beyond reasonable mathematical certainty) are descended from a single woman - Sykes calls her, perhaps tongue in cheek, Mitochondrial Eve. Second, every person on earth is, in turn, the descendant of one of only 33 women, who were the matrilineal descendants of Eve. The book focuses on seven of these women who are the matrilineal ancestors of virtually every native European. These seven he calls, again perhaps tongue in cheek, The Daughters of Eve. Third, the oldest of the daughters of Eve lived only about 45,000 years ago, the youngest within the past 10,000 years. Some additional thoughts: 1. As with all knowledge, take this with a little grain of salt. Today's axioms in science may be disproved or reevaluated in a month, a year or a century. This is cutting edge stuff, and there are likely many surprises to come. 2. Sykes is at his descriptive best when dealing with the fascinating details of his own research and field work. His writing style breaks down somewhat when he attempts to write imaginative Clan of the Cave Bear-like chapters on the lives of the seven daughters of Eve. I skipped heavily in this section. 3. I am a little surprised to sense a commercial-like ambience on Sykes' website, oxfordancestors.com. For a fee his organization will test your DNA and tell you which daughter of Eve you are descended from. This doesn't exactly lead me to doubt his research, but confirms my suspicions that Sykes has many more skills as a writer and pitchman than most of his colleagues. 4. Don't be misled by the title - this is not your standard Sunday School or Bible Class religious tract. Those who believe that every word of the Bible - through all of the twists and turns of 3,000 years of copying, editing, compiling and translation - is infallible, will perhaps find their faith challenged. On the other hand, those who are not Bible literalists may find some edification here, as well. 7 of 9 people found the following review helpful: Sykes Theories are Flawed, February 14, 2006 Reviewer: Tonya Payne 3d animator - See all my reviews The first few chapters of this book were interesting and I really thought it was going to be a good book. It turned out to be a rather dull book with theories that go against logic and scientific research. First of all, Sykes drags out his personal struggles with other researchers in the middle of the book, which is where it gets really boring. I don't care about academic squabbles, I want to hear the facts. I wanted to read about the seven women who all Europeans are decended from. When I finally got to those chapters I was disappointed. Seriously, it was Cave Man fiction. If you want early human fiction, read Jean Auel. Basically, he made up stories about what life might have been like for these women, and put in absolutely no evidence from archaeologists or anthropologists to support his theories. Second of all, Sykes claims to be able to trace all of the migrations of humanity through Mitochondrial DNA. This is utter nonsense. Mitochondrial DNA, as Sykes admits, only traces one single line out of thousands upon thousands of your ancestors. It only traces your mother's mother's line. While Mitochondrial DNA can trace this line's migrations, there are thousands of other lines out there, and we cannot assume that the other ones followed the same migration route as that maternal line. To assume such things is not scientific. For example after ten generations you have a possible 1024 ancestors, after twenty generations you have a possible 1,048,576 ancestors. Of course some of these lines join back
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hear Neil Young, Help Stop the War
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But actually, yes. I'd rather see billions spend on humanitarian issues than on bombing a country to smithereens after we've starved them (sanctions) for decades. Are you opposed to sanctions as a non- or less-violent alterntive to war? Or do you believe that Iraqi non-compliance with many UN sanctions were not worthy of international concern and action via the use of sanctions (instead of military action for 10 years)? Did you favor International sanctions of South Africa during apartheid? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hear Neil Young, Help Stop the War
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock jedi_spock@ wrote: At a particular point in time, Abraham Lincoln was the most hated man in America. When he abolished Slavery the population hated him with such intensity that the white people refused to come out and meet him. That *some* white people refused to come out and meet him. He was a hero, even a saint, to a large portion of the population. Read about his funeral and the national mourning that took place after his assassination. Are you suggesting this contradicts that at some points in his presidency, Abraham Lincoln was quite unpopular? Prior to the 1864 election, the war was not going well and Lincoln was low in popularity. There was serious talk of McClelland taking the Republican nomination. Then within months, Sherman took Atlanta, the war was soon after ended, and Lincoln's popularity surged. Within a few days he was shot. Of course there was huge outpouring for him -- particularly given the roller-coaster ride of events in those years -- 63-65. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Hear Neil Young, Help Stop the War
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No more armchair generals, please. If you feel war is a viable alternative today, sign up now, and start killing. Do you hold the same principle for all policy? If so it could imply that: -- one stop talking about the high price of oil and take direct action to fight oil prices -- perhaps selling ones car and taking the bus, applying one warm room policy, buy ultra-high efficiency refigerator, use no tv or pcscreens greater than 10, no stereos/ ipods only, no plane travel, etc. Non as extreme as quiting their job, leaving their family and taking up arms. -- one stop talking about getting bush out the white house but working full time 24x7 to do so. That may seem extreme, what about my job and family? It appears the same applies to one who holds a non-pacifist view -- per your recommended policy above: they must quit their job, leave their family and take up arms in the theatre of conflict. While I am not arguing for or against your pacifist position and associated policy, I don't see some special exception for this one policy. Thus it appears per your position all policies one holds should have equal dedicated follow through. Or is there an implicit exception for non-pacifism that I am missing. should To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why the Future Doesn't Need Us (Long)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Peter wrote: A sentient man-made robot/machine would be mind boggling. If it was intelligent, watch out! So many possibilities to consider. The disturbing thing to me is that the sceintists in AI who are *seriously* talking about robot species are not talking about initially uploading the entire consciousness of a human to the robot, but merely the instinctual, thinking mind. No higher intellect, no fine discriminating intellect (buddhi) and no conscience. At one of the first Mind and Life conferences the Dalai Lama stated that once some material matrix becomes available to hold consciousness, consciousness will be able to incarnate into this new species. And of course by the time we get to that stage, the ability to self- replicate, a relatively mechanical process, will have already been mastered. There are a number of yogis who have talked of future Buddhas who appear to be made of some silicon or crystalline material. We will already, quite soon, have computers the size of cells. Injectable. It's coming sooner than we think. UN staff: There is new famine in Africa, war in the middle east and terrorist acts in Kashmir. UN Security Council: OK, Call up GBSD (General Buddha Silicon Dynamics) and have them send 1000 of the the S.at.VA 108 models of the Buddha to each hot spot. Whats the production time currently? UN staff: 2 days. UN Security Council: OK, Lets Roll. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Barry is Brahman
What is so wonderful about Barry is that he exemplifes the living truth of the Paradox of Brahman. Without Exception but There are exceptions. In the Infinite flexible mind of UNC, truth has no boundaries, its beyond all dualites of truth and falseness, it simply is what Barry decides it its In the Moment. Its a huge thrill to soak up his shakti charged, infinity vesseled, boundary breaking, crazy-wisdom words. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: with no exceptions, *all* of the people who have ever posted using one of the 'anon' accounts have fallen into the complete waste of time category, http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com/msg48971.html TurquoiseB Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:40:40 -0700 anon_couscous_ff Maybe you can take the Boddhisattva Movie Vow -- to remain unenlighteened life after life until all sentient beings have seen all of these movies. Wonderful concept! I give you fair warning...I plan to steal this idea... :-) http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com/msg48446.html TurquoiseB Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:50:57 -0700 anon_couscous_ff wrote: I see too that Jed McKenna has a new book (new to me). Has anyone figured out who this guy is writing under thus pseudo-name? Hey couscous, I know we've had our disagreements and all, but damned if you haven't made me buy two books in one day. :-) You're good at finding books that sound interesting. And at introducing them here in a really neat way, one that makes you want to read the book. Really. Keep it up. I'm in France with my library still in transit, somewhere on a ship between Bushland and here, and with not enough interesting stuff on my bookshelves to keep me busy. I'm definitely going to order these two books and read them. Thanks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment-anonymous.html as he went to the gurutrashers camp http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/828 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 Not only does he cut short discussions here without proper reference, as this group is open for anyone to read, but also he plays the expert again. The reference to sidhis should not be missing, and groupleader Jody is already under the sway of another manifestor of holy ash, dispite his critics to about anyone in the spiritual field, including Ramana Maharshi, whom he discovered to be a Nazi. Writes Vaj: start= I wrote the comments based on experiences with an anonymous group of people who are all claiming to be enlightened. They are all former students of Mahesh Varma, aka Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Some of them make the wildest claims like we are living in the Unified Field- - which is interesting because none of these people can demonstrate a siddhi to prove that. They are without exception very averse to the idea of criteria or testing or recognition by their own teacher. They are their own judge and jury and witness (no pun intended :-) ). It really only scratches the surface of what was going on--I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. I should also add that most of them are also fans of Eckhart Tolle, Gangaji, Sailor Bob, etc. I like to call them Tolle-house cookies. So sweet, but bad for your spirit (causes your Ego to gain weight). ==end== Of course Vaj is just seeking a mutual agreement club himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
No, I was not being sarcastic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Hmm, you aren't being sarcastic here? I think he is honest in one way, he is a traditionalist, and I myself have quite a few dear friends who think like him - just I think different and am more open to the possibiltity of immediate enlightenment,and think its traditional. What really took me was perhaps this line: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/829 It really only scratches the surface of what was going on-- I'll eventually write a more detailed analysis as I have time or the inclination. Obviously talking about FFL, without giving references To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: But it strikes me a bit, that the same poster, Vaj, has once tried to turn on amt posters to migrate to Ffl (again nothing invalid in itself) because of the many enlightened posters here. Just to back this up a bit, this is one of the posts of Vaj inviting Judy to FFL: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/ 32da875cae024b81?hl=en On 2005-05-20 13:50:39 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Vaj. wrote: snip Since you are obviously a member there, you should post it there Judy. Duh. You're afraid even of having me do that, since you've now deleted your post. Actually, I would enjoy your company on FFL, and it is a much more evolved setting. Come to where the evolution is, can't you feel the charm? ;-) I am not sure, if he referenced them as enlightened (posters here), I seem to recall he did, but that there were more TM teachers here than at amt and that they were more evolved was definitely what he said. Just for curiosities sake. Of course everybody is free to change his mind. And don't you have anything better to do than cross-post someone elses messages? Very childish and vindictive if you ask me. Maybe you should look inwards at your Self rather than lashing out at others like a hurt child with an internet account. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? No, and did I say there should be one? Well, you were not exactly complimenting Vaj for cross-posting. You were not saying, Hey, our own Vaj got a well-recieved post published in a well-read blog, kudos to Vaj.. You appeared to be chastizing him for posting similiar material in another forum, and imputing odd motives for doing so. My line, Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? was a rhetorical question. Sort of an assumed shorthand for Is crossposting that bad? Should there be there a ban against selective cross-posting here? I will try to be more literal in my responses in the future so that you do not infer that I am such a dullard as to be thinking that you said Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? when a second grader can see that you did not. Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. Why, in your view, the naming a particular satsang was important in the context of his post, to that audience, boggles my mind. He was making an admited limited observation about one satsang, and hypothesied an interesting dynamic. What relevance is it whether it was abc satsang, or xyz satsang, none of which most readers of the blog would be familiar with. What I think is unfair is the way he characterizes dialoques going on here, I think you are inncorrect. I don't believe his observations were about FFL. in which he participated, in a onesided way, without giving references to the posts he is referring to, like I do it: I cite the posts so that everybody can look it up. Instead he promises to observe the scene, here, Where in God's name did he promise to observe FFL? so that it can duely give food for Jodys blog, while everybody there could do that as well if he would just reference the posts he is talking about. My post was meant to be informative, so that you know waht is going on elsewhere. Is your issue that you personally feel slighted by Vaj's post, and that you personally feel diminished in the eyes of the readers of the blog, because you were slighted and not able to have your personal case presented to the blog? If so, I am amazed. Such would be quite silly and refelctive of a very tender and weak ego I would guess -- which is not what I have found reflected in your prior posts. What vaj posted was an interesting hypothesis of satsang dynamics -- that may or may not be relevant for all, many or any other satsangs. On the other hand, if an insight forms in a post on FFL, and the idea develops over a month or two, and one submits a revised hopefully more refined post on the same idea somewhere else, sometime later, where is the harm. It seems to be a good thing, IMO. No argument with that. He is free to do so even though the post wasn't refined, and didn't include any of the possible answers to the topic here. If he did not feel the answers to the topic posted previously here as useful, why should he possibly feel obligated to include them in a post to a seperate blog, about a seperate satsang? Your logic is mind-boggling on this point. The first post, polemic as it may have been I didn't object to. Its more the follow up posts about the FFL scene, which he doesn't call by name, I wanted to simply inform you about. As I think he characterizes some posters here, and reports vaguely on some conversations, without giving even the slightest reference to the POV of the other side. I do not follow your assertions at all. What FFL posts and their posters did he characterize and their conversations. I am totally missing that. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success And you feel his motivation is recognition? Can we infer that therefore your motivation for posting to FFL is recognition? If not, why do you impute that motivation to Vaj? Well I do think people seek recognition for their ideas. Its normal, its human. Then why are you dissing Vaj for doing so? Also Vaj imputes motives to the Satsang givers and takers, I read it as a generalized, preliminary hypothesis based on limited observation -- not comments about specific named individual. There is quite a difference IMO
[FairfieldLife] Identities
Its funny that several are posting under anon_astute today. Taken as a whole, poor astute is clearly schitzoid. haha. Which is one of my points about posting anon -- look to what is written and not some preconcieved idea about the poster. (As well as to satirize attachment to relative identities) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: snip Please note that my post was more about the two followup posts of Vaj about the peculiar FFL scene which he doesn't have the guts to call by name. Again, you are on the slippery slope of imputing motives. As Dr. Pete has said (though not always practiced), no one can tell what the inner state or motives of another are. Nobody can know, obviously, *for sure*. But one can often make a damn good guess based on observation of past behavior and knowledge of a person's perspective. To suggest we should never impute motives because we can't know for sure is kind of absurd. I am suggesting that imputing motives not very interesting or productive -- in terms of advancing ideas and the discussion. That its also is pretty iffy -- and often tells us more about the motives-outer than the original motivee. When motives are imputed, many get diverted off the ideas of the discussion and start explaining why the stated motives are not their motives and -- btw -- why the motives-outer is such a dumb-ass for saying so. Whoa boy, then we really have a GREAT dynamic set up for discussing ideas. Some feel that those who impute motives often are telling us what they would do in such a situation, and chastizing poster for the imputed motivations they fear in themselves. This is one of those facile generalizations that folks tend to take as a given because it sounds so learned. I am not trying to sound learned. Its my speculation based on observations of many posts. I am sorry that you personally feel my observations are facile. On this, I guess we will disagree. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Inquiry Into Claims and Interpretations, not Experiences
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the record, I don't consider *anyone* on the planet enlightened. I think some people have had more experiences than others, and because I'm more interested in experience than in dry, dusty theory, I like hearing about their experiences. But that's all I consider them...experiences. This is funny, in an interesting sort of way, not dissmissive. For 3-4 years on FFL, I have been making similar if not the same points. As I have posted a number of times, from different angels, I find enlightenment is a useless label, and therefore to consider anyone enlightened is fruitless. And what is of interest are experiences, some of which are spiritual -- consciousness experiencing itself -- and some are relative flashes in the pan. And yet, as I have understood it from past posts, you (UNC) have been lambasting my views and posts in this topic area. How funny, since you appear to hold the same view. Perhaps its because, while I hold the label enlightenment to be of little value, I try to respect claims of such as an interesting view to explore. And I have tried to ask pertinent questions about their criteria, attributes and manifestations of thier states in daily life, and their experiences -- particularly that of consciousness experiencing itself. Such questioning, spanning over four years or so, began very cautiously, politely and respectfully. Over the years, when faced,IMO, with lots of diversions from, and non-answers on key attributes (IMO) and possible confusing or contradictory statements about their enlightemment, I have experimented with different forms of inquiry to try to invoke some responses and further the discussion. Some such forms proved useful, some counter-productive. And over the years, I have laid out my own experiences for scrutiny and similar questioning. However, I don't recall ever dismissing or criticizing an account of an experience, by itself (independent of singualr interpretations and claims of enlightenment). Perhaps I have, and I would be gratified to have the specifics pointed out to me, for my own improvement. What I have questioned why various claimed attributes and experiences constitute enlightenment -- as well as the posters' singular interpretation of of their experiences. Why you have so strenuously objected to such is paradoxical, IMO, though in a humorous way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Much more interesting than any of this, though, was Jim Flanegin's response to the original post ... ... This is a thoughtful and potentially useful counterpoint to Vaj's analysis. [sequencing changed] Yes, but it reaises some points for discussion (not the same as arguments supporting entrenched POVs) --- Hi Vaj, and thanks for your comments and perspective on collective satsanging here on FFL (I am assuming this is the group you refer to and have been observing...). I can certainly see from one POV how a group of awakened individuals could appear to have some silent codependent agreement with one another, driven by ego satisfaction. And how from this same POV, there is no argument and little criticism within the group because this would fracture the codependent nature of it. On the other hand, from another POV, I can see the enjoyment of a group of awakened individuals sharing perspectives on a state of ultimate freedom. With no consequences to other observers, one way or another- no $$ requested, or follow up meetings advertised... Sure, both possibilities exist. I see Vaj's post as simply adding a new hypothesis to be considered along with the conventional POV. Like anything, if the shoe fits wear it. Because the same event is observed and experienced differently according to our consciousness, I cannot say that everyone should experience this group of awakened individuals in the same way. However, a couple of key points about this discussion: 1. determination of awakening, or not, of another is something sensed on a feeling level. Proclamations do no good, unless the person is walking the walk so to speak. Yes. And while I am only commenting on FFL, not all SS, IMO, the walk and talk have not always appear consistent. Such apparent inconsistencies are good, and fair grounds for questioning, IMO. Unfortunately it seems that the ones best able to see another's awakening are those who are awake themselves... And unforetunately, those stuck in groupthink and co-dependency cycles are usually not the ones to first or best recognize it. Outside observers can be helpful in point out some patterns. 2. the challenging of awakened states is helpful to a point. However to ceaselessly challenge, However, IMO, its a good thing regularly raise observations and questions about: unclear points, ramifications and implications of points raised, inconsistencies, paradoxes, contradictions,diversions, poor logic, and unsubstantied claims of fact. disagree Why should one agree with claims that appear shallow or contradictory, and/or interpretations that are sigualr and absolutist? and insult those who state that they are awakened can be harmful to observers of this dialogue. Insults are not productive -- except perhaps in the very special circumstnace when claims of universal love and compassion, as well as no ego, etc. are made. In that specialized case, limited insults --while perhaps not of the highest form of behavior, but widely deployed on FFL in many areas of discussion -- can be a form of inquiry: Does this person really have no ego. If so, what is manifestly (in their writing) feeling diminished when insults are cast? And if/when they cast insults, it raises issues of reciprocity, and the depth of thier universal love and compassion. It does no harm to the awakened person, for obvious reasons. Yet some react pretty vehemently against such. So it raises questions. But it is not a good thing in my opinion to in effect broadcast a message that awakening is not possible for the typical seeker, unless an endless and often nebulous set of conditions are met first. I am not aware of anyone doing that. If that is your take, I questions how seeing things exactly as they are your perception is as claimed. What I observe are statements that in a tradition -- say TM, MMY defines enlightenment as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these?. The same with other traditions. For example, in some tibetian traditions, enlightenement is defined as as such, with these attributes, and these tests of it. Are you experienceing these? Perhaps someone has defined enlightenment in their own way, such as Rory. Such persons may not make any claims that it has much to do with TM or any other traditions' enlightenment. Thats fine, particularly as long as its explicitly stated. What I find of interest to question, is when claimants to enlightenment cannot or will not define what they personally mean by the term they are using, or whether what they are claiming is different from the TM or other traditions of enlightenment or awakening. Awakening is not something easily established. It takes much dedication, devotion, faith, strength, and discrimination for anyone who truly wants to reach that goal. And do you consider it possible that some
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: When will Vaj ever learn that ego gratification is not the solution to spiritual insecurity and immaturity? What a sad, bitter little man. Why did you assume that Vaj is a man? She is a mother of three. And kind of a hottie for a mother of three. Your implicit definition of hottie reminds me Jack Ford's answer, when living in the White House, as to the type of women he most liked. Those with two arms and two legs. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
And yet you have enough time to read this vast wasteland (IYO) called FFL. Just think of all the seva you could do if you just quit wasting your time, got out from in front of the PC, and did something useful. What is this compulstion to keep doing something you abhor? :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Me, too. I now do not even open about 90% of the posts on FFL. People are indulging themselves in a public chat room with personal, detail laden crap that only 2 or 3 people care about. An occasional lapse is fine, but this is routine behavior. Get off the computer, folks, and do something with your time. Work, volunteer, exercise, see a shrink, make a friend, take a walk, take a class, relate face to face with another person, do some yoga postures and meditate (cause it sure sounds like none of these things has a place in your lives). What do you think Buddha, Guru Dev, the Dalai Lama, or Vyasa or MMY would say to a life lived in front of the computer, hours and hours and hours a day with nitpicky posts and without giving or helping another person in real life? Get medication if you can't change it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: I find I like champagne Which ones? The liquid kinds. My advice to you is to start drinking heavily -- Senator John Blutarsky To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 12:12 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote: Jim: As we work on one area and the next, creating gradually and permanenently our awakened selves, the awakened selves are composed of polished parts? The Awakened Self was once not awake? If this really is your view, we fundamentally differ in a most high regard. Lost me here. Though I think I get what jim is getting at, it struck me as odd/funny that work on one area and the next aka polishing parts, creates wholeness. And while it may simply be semantical, creating gradually ... our awakened selves implies the Self was once asleep. It wasn't. Something else was asleep. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I appreciate your comments and questions, but I find myself unable to respond to each of them, just as an artist would find it difficult to justify or explain each brushstroke, or a poet each line of a poem. What I expressed was the exposition of a single thought and feeling, in a very specific context. The singularity expressed transcends its elements. I have read through my posting here, and wouldn't make any changes to it. So I am left with the impression that you question or disagree with some of it. I am not copping out, or finding your comments not worth a response, so please don't misunderstand me. I just don't know what else to say to you to clarify or justify further what I have written. I am not arguing, or necessariliy disagreeing with most of what you said, but rather raising some additional points. Its true, two different people can arrive at two different interpretations of the same event -- in this case, a satsang. My broader point is that, as above, experiences also have multiple possible valid interpretations. What I find odd -- not referring to you post specifically -- in some discusssions some posters react quite negatively to suggestions that alterntive interpretations of experiences might be valid -- or at least of use to explore. (Just as multiple interpreations are possible as to what happens in satsangs generally. In which case, across many satsangs, I would expect both models sometimes fit.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you don't really feel like coddling pissants. :-) Seeing others as pissants and snakes. A clear sign of seeing the Self in all things. What remarkable spiritual achievements these individuals have obtained. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: p.s. i love it when the anon's insult behind their veil of obscurity. I am glad you feel full of love today Peter. A clear sign of your remarkable sprititual achievements. I love it too when individuals hide behind their highly esteemed individual identities -- a clear sign of how polished and cherised these individualities have become to them. And I love how you see the Oneness of all things, seeing all Anons as One and stereotyping their collective traits. It makes prejudging posts that much easier -- not having to waste time actually evaluating each post. So I guess the lesson is, that its all good when its all seen in love. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL under observation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vaj does not only like to recycle old articles he once posted here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Guruphiliac/message/825 Is there a ban against selective cross-posting here? I mean if one shotguns everypost to 100 other sites, thats a poor practice. On the other hand, if an insight forms in a post on FFL, and the idea develops over a month or two, and one submits a revised hopefully more refined post on the same idea somewhere else, sometime later, where is the harm. It seems to be a good thing, IMO. but also seeks recognition, for what he doesn't seem to get here, and obviously with success http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2006/04/enlightenment-anonymous.html That appears to be an odd form for you (usually clear, fair and informative -- and not prone to comments on persons rather than ideas) -- imputing motives to someone else -- particularly a stranger. Why do any of us post? Is it for recognition? That seems a bit laughable, given the composition and quite small size of active posters here. For perhaps odd reasons, the quirkiness of FFL, within me, induces thoughts to explore. I post because it allows me to work out these ideas, and occasionally, receive some good feedback and discussion -- which btw, if they change my original view, I consider it a good day. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita
Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita Alan Jacobs The following is an article written for the Autumn 2004 issue of 'The Mountain Path', the journal of Sri Ramanasramam, by Alan Jacobs. It combines a review of 'The Book of One' with an assessment of the differences between the teaching of traditional Advaita and that of modern, western, so-called neo-Advaita. There can be no doubt that Dennis Waite's 'The Book Of One' is a worthy introduction to the Ancient Teaching of Advaita. In a clear and erudite manner he summarises the main points of this Great Philosophy and Spiritual Teaching. The book is in Sections with subsidiary chapters elucidating the chief principles. The Main Section Titles are as follows: The Unreal, The Spiritual Path, and the Real. The subsidiary 18 chapters within these Sections cover, amongst others, such topics as What I Am Not, the Nature of Man, What We Think We Can Know, Meditation, Appearance and Reality, Consciousness, the Nature of Self, Realisation, and the Direct Path, etc. Dennis Waite is a respected member of the Ramana Foundation UK, and there are many useful references to the Maharshi's Teachings in the text. He has studied the Subject for over fifteen years and has a working knowledge of Sanskrit. The book is definitely to be recommended for those who need a succinct overview to the whole Teaching in one medium size volume. It is easy to read and surveys the philosophy competently in an even handed way. This part of the book can well be regarded as a sound and valuable introduction to the whole field. There is however a long Appendix of 24 pages packed with information on current Western Advaita Organisations, International Internet Sites, and a Reading List. This part of the book raises an interesting and perplexing question of what exactly is happening to the hallowed and revered Teaching of Advaita in the Western World? Many firm devotees of Sri Ramana Maharshi now rightly term this western phenomenon as 'Neo-Advaita'. The term is carefully selected because 'neo' means 'a new or revived form'. And this new form is not the Classical Advaita which we understand to have been taught by both of the Great Self Realised Sages, Adi Shankara and Ramana Maharshi. It can even be termed 'pseudo' because, by presenting the teaching in a highly attenuated form, it might be described as purporting to be Advaita, but not in effect actually being so, in the fullest sense of the word. In this watering down of the essential truths in a palatable style made acceptable and attractive to the contemporary western mind, their teaching is misleading . Let us examine this thesis in more detail. There are a great many so-called Advaita or Non-Dual Teachers both in Europe, America and Australasia. Dennis Waite lists numerous organisations, Internet sites, and modern books, many of which fall under this category. New teachers calling themselves 'Awakened' appear frequently. One or another. They are often long standing ex-students of the late Rajneesh, or people who visited Lucknow with H.W.L. Poonja. Obviously styles, personalities, emphases, delineations, and content vary considerably. But there are enough common threads to identify this tendency as 'Neo-Advaita'. First of all the teaching is mainly presented by question and answer at meetings called 'Satsangs'. The teacher invites questions, and then answers them in his own particular way. There is no overview of the basic Advaita principles. So those who attend are left with no full understanding of the complete bases on which the Teaching stands. One is dependent on what is said there and then, after many visits, which have to be paid for, one may appreciate what the self-appointed teacher is attempting to 'put over'. The books they have published are in the main just edited transcripts of these 'satsangs', and are also incomplete. There is no doubt that many of these men and women are in most cases good looking, talented, gifted communicators. They often have a certain charisma and an intelligent quick wittedness. They can handle concepts from an intellectual standpoint with dexterity and are often entertaining in an idiosyncratic way. Many seekers develop a psychological dependency on one favourite teacher, others move from one to another hoping to pick up some truth which will help them in their quest. But these satsangs tend to be fragmented, so many teachers and meetings need to be visited and this can lead to confusion. There is generally a lack of experiential understanding of the Real Self and its Power as deep silence, unconditional love etc.. When the vasanas are strong and rajassic, even such rare glimpses may not happen at all. Stated briefly, what has happened is that an advanced teaching pointer, normally given to the Sadhak by a fully Self Realised Guru, Jivan Mukta or Jnani has been taken over as the preliminary step and is
[FairfieldLife] Pseudo-advaita and unqualified Satsang Service Providers
The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita by Aziz on the proliferation of unqualified Satsang Service Providers (Similar material from Aziz, annotated and linked, can be found at The Wanderling's site, but without the additional material at the bottom) We would like to express our concern regarding the recent phenomenon of satsang- culture which in our opinion has impoverished seriously the Original Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals, who have very little or no knowledge at all about the Process of Awakening, feel qualified to give satsang and lead other souls on the Path. Enlightenment has become very cheap these days. Nobody actually really knows what is the meaning of this term as it virtually means everything and nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say I am awakened in order to give satsang. Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has been much manipulated. Satsang has been Americanised. In an average satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and unauthentic joy, while the teacher tries to look like he or she is in bliss. Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate. Why meditate if we are already all awakened? But is this really Advaita? Is Advaita a poor repetition of a several slogans like There is nobody there, You are That, You are already awakened or There is no Path, etc? Has this anything to do with teaching of great masters like N. Maharaj or R. Maharshi? Ramana sat in caves for 20 years before he could be really complete. In his presence disciples had to meditate for months and years before they could receive from him the glimpse of the Self. It is true that New Millennium is a time of global awakening. But this awakening is mostly partial and relative to the level of most people's unconsciousness. It was Jesus who said that there would be a time when many false teachers will teach in the name of Light. It seems to be happening now. Many of these teachers are not necessarily bad people but simply unqualified and lost, in truth. They have believed too quickly in the thought I am now ready to teach! It seems that the pauperisation of satsang culture began after the death of Poonjaji. Many of his followers started to claim that Poonjaji approved their awakening. It seems that they just took him too literally. It is an Advaita custom to say you are already awakened. This is however more a teaching device than a reflection of reality. And even if some of his disciples had a glimpse of awakening, Poonjaji knew very well that in most cases it was neither permanent nor the final state. An example was Andrew Cohen who was sent to give satsang in the west. He was meant to represent Poonjaji and attract more westerners to Lucknow. But he and others thought that Poonjaji actually confirmed his Enlightenment. For that reason, Cohen became very hurt when Poonjaji started to criticize him when he began to act as a master. From this wound came later the magazine What is Enlightenment? which more represents Cohen's own insecurity and an unsuccessful attempt to heal himself than a genuine search for clarity. By the endless investigation into states of all possible masters, and not being able to come to any true conclusion, he has been just confusing his students. The only thing which at the end remains clear from his seemingly sincere efforts to find clarity is that nobody has the least idea What Enlightenment Is! It is not our intention to suggest that nobody reaches Enlightenment. We just wish to make it clear that Complete Enlightenment and Understanding of its nature is still an extremely rare phenomenon on the planet earth, which is a plane of low evolution. And equally important, we wish to emphasize that a partial or premature experience of awakening does not qualify one at all to take a role of a Self-realised being. Enlightenment is not so cheap. Many seekers seem to be unaware of a very simple fact that there are actually many levels of Self-realisation. There is an enormous difference between initial awakening and the actual State of Enlightenment. But who cares? Most seekers would not bother to study these matters, for in their case there is really nobody there - just a collective seeker's mind. And most teachers would refuse to enquire into the true nature of Enlightenment because they already have a hidden doubt and deep fear concerning the validity of their own attainment. We would like to suggest not to rush too fast with announcing oneself awakened, and to rush even less with the idea of giving satsang. In Zen tradition one had to wait 10 to 20 years after Enlightenment before one could guide others. These days we hear about individuals who give satsang the next day after their uncertain awakening! We would like to clarify, for the sake of general knowledge, that there are actually several levels of expansion beyond the mind. There are
[FairfieldLife] Talking Advaita
EXPRESSIONS (OR PARTIAL INTUITIONS AND LIMITED FORESHADOWINGS) OF THE SEVENTH STAGE OF LIFE A.The Tradition of Advaita Vedanta 1.The Ancient Advaitic (or Non-Dualist) Tradition, Shankara, and the Tradition of Shankara 2.Modern Teachers of Advaitism What Is Required to Realize the Non-Dual Truth?: The Controversy Between the Talking School and the Practicing School of Advaitism Certain proponents of Advaitism (or of the Truth of non-dualism) , even some who may be genuine Realizers (but only in the sixth stage sense) of the Great Truth of Advaita Vedanta, generally represent or advocate what I call the talking school of Advaitism. That is to say, their contact with disciples is primarily one of conversation, and the process in which they engage their listeners is basically (and even exclusively) a matter of attendance to verbal argumentation. (And this emphasis on, or even confinement to, the verbal context of Advaitism stands in dramatic contrast to the real practicing ordeal and deep meditative process that many talking school Teachers, such as Atmananda and Nisargadatta Maharaj, have endured as the context of their own sixth stage process of Advaitic Realization.) There is even a kind of Emperor's New Clothes syndrome associated with the talking school. It is said that, yes, there are many practices (other than listening) that could be engaged, but such practices are only necessary for those who are immature (or whose minds are not yet ripe for the Truth-Taking) . Few, of course, want to acknowledge their immaturity or unreadiness for the One Thing desired by all. Therefore, the proud listeners doggedly refuse to acknowledge the necessity of their own self transcending ordeal of sadhana, and so they merely listen (again and again). Unlike the talking school, the original tradition of Advaita Vedanta requires great preparations and real qualifications for the Advaitic (or non-dualistic) Realization, and such preparations (or qualifications) include practical self-discipline, the development of a disinclination toward the search for (and attachment to) the conditional satisfactions associated with what I have described as the first five stages of life, and the achievement of a clear-minded and profound motivation toward Transcendental Self- Realization. Indeed, only individuals who were thus prepared would, in the strictest traditional setting, be welcomed even to listen to (and to seriously consider) an Advaitic Teacher's discourses on Transcendental Truth. In any case, the practice of listening is traditionally called sravana. All proponents (both traditional and modern) of the talking school tend to isolate (or idealize) this first (or initial) stage of the total process and thus make it the Only Method (or the one and only context of possible Realization). And they (especially the modern proponents of the talking school) do not generally require the traditional preparations or qualifications (whether as a prerequisite or an eventual attainment) on the part of their listeners. (Even modern proponents of the original tradition, or what I call the practicing school, generally do not require the traditional preparations as a qualification for listening, but effective disciplines and real qualifications are expected to appear over time. There is a tradition that expects Advaitins to accept sannyasa, or the life of an unmarried, or socially detached, celibate, but the modern trend is to return to the classical orientation of the Upanishadic era, which calls both sannyasins and householders, or even Tantric practitioners, to the practice and the Realization of the non-dualistic Way.) The complete traditional process of practicing Advaitism goes on from the talking and listening stage of sravana to the advancing stages of manana (or profound examination of the Teaching arguments, to the point of hearing, or intuitive understanding) and nididhyasana (or deep contemplation, to the degree of true and stable Realization of Inherent Samadhi, or Inherent Identification with Consciousness Itself). Although the proponents of the talking school generally look for some kind of understanding, or hearing, to develop in their listeners, the great practice and the Great Realization associated with the traditional discipline of nididhyasana appear to be generally neglected (or even disdained) by them. This distinction between the talking school (or Teachers of the talking school) and the practicing school (or Teachers of the practicing school) points to a basic controversy within the tradition of Advaitism. At least since the time of Shankara, both of these two schools (or interpretations of Advaitism) have existed. The talking school generally attracts those who have a minimal capability for (or capable impulse toward) renunciation, Yogic (or Spiritual) discipline, and deep meditation, but who otherwise are
[FairfieldLife] The Seven Stages of Life
For the clueless Trinity. http://beezone.com/AdiDa/7Stages/7_stages_of_life.html The Seven Stages of Life The teachings of Adi Da Samraj as it relates to the development of the human individual It is the Truth upon which the Way of Radical Understanding or Divine Ignorance, as Taught by Master Da Free John, is founded. Therefore, Enlightenment cannot he a matter of progressive attainment. It is, as the Adept affirms, always already the case. But this is to be Realized, which is a matter of free attention and energy. The purpose of spiritual practice is to gradually release our attention and energy from their contracted habit patterns of fixation upon seemingly finite objects and goals. In this way we become more and more open to the possibility of the radical intuition of the Happiness, or Truth, that Outshines all phenomenal states of body and mind. This occurs as an autonomous process, guided by the Transcendental Attraction of the Adept, of increasing magnification of the tacit intuition of our prior Condition. No ego based, strategic method of self-improvement is involved. As Master Da Free John has discovered and elaborated, however, the spiritual process unfolds in clearly discernible stages, what he calls the Seven Stages of Life. The model of the seven stages of readaptation to the God-Realized Disposition is unique to the Way of Radical Understanding. It furnishes a structure that allows us to fully examine and rightly evaluate our spiritual and human growth as well as the mass of spiritual teaching and experience that informs our psyche. In other words, the framework developed by the Adept Da Free John permits us to go beyond the taboos and presumptions of conventional religious and secular culture in our consideration of human existence and our personal growth. It is thus a most direct instrument for augmenting self-observation and self-understanding, both being necessary tools of a self- transcending approach to life. From another point of view, the seven stages can be viewed as a school offering seven lessons about self transcendence the essence of true spirituality. Most people have failed to learn the lesson of even the first stage of life, and so the spiritual practitioner, generally speaking, begins by readapting to what might appear to be very ordinary human functions and responsibilities. It is only after he (or she) has assumed full responsibility in a more ordinary level that higher spiritual processes can occur. STAGE 1 (Birth to Age 7) The first stage of life, occupying the years from conception and birth to age seven, is the stage of the individual's vital-physical adaptation to the world. He learns simple' skills like focusing with the eyes, grasping and manipulating objects, walking, talking, assimilating and convening food and breath into energy, controlling bladder and bowels, and so forth. This is the stage that basically occupies us from conception to seven years of age (or the beginning of true socialization and complex relatedness). It is the period in which we must adapt to our physical individuality and basic physical capacity. Thus, it is not only a period of physical adaptation, but of physical individuation. That is, we must gradually adapt to fully functional physical existence, but we must achieve physical individuation, or physical (and thus mental, emotional, psychic, and psychological) independence from the mother and all others. When this stage is complete, we will not exist in isolation but in a state of conscious relatedness to all others and the world of Nature. Thus, the fulfillment of the first stage of life is marked by the beginnings of the movement toward more complex socialization, cooperation with others, and sensitivity to the total world of Nature. Sunlight on the Water Chapter 1 March 1, 1983 - MASTER DA FREE JOHN: Education, or My Way of Schooling in the Seven Stages of Life. Each of the seven stages represents a unique period of adaptation and transcendence, and each subsequent stage is built upon fulfillment of the process of adaptation and transcendence in all previous stages. Therefore, we must clearly understand what special education or schooling must be engaged in each stage. The first stage of life is basically the period of physical adaptation to our functional existence, though other forms of adaptation begin to occur as physical adaptation matures. In addition to the obvious process of physical adaptation, what must also occur at this stage is physical individuation. This means that the child in the first stage of life must realize that he or she is an independent physical personality. In other words, he or she must break the dependency connection to the mother. This is a kind of unconscious connection to another being in which nurturing occurs. The individual must achieve physical independence and therefore mental and emotional
[FairfieldLife] Re: Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute_ff wrote: If you have read the Bhagavata then you should know what it says about one who sells this secret knowledge. If it's secret - how did you find out about it? If you have read Puranic lore, various Ramayanas, you might begin to understand why it is considered secret. ...a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Just look at the dribble that so much time is spent being spat over and over here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: You're being rather vague here Judy. Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess. Was this intentional...? Well, I think it was her intention to try and hijack the thread - just another excuse to open her big pie hole and spout off like a know-it-all. Anybody can see that Judy hasn't added one thing to the current thread. Obviously Judy's not an insider with any new information. Go figure. What makes you think you are any different? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara's native language?
Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote The first and original Shankara is Lord Shiva - the Adi Shankara. Shankara in his lifetime was referred to as Acharya Shree. Pardon... but how do you know this for sure? Are you suggesting it is incorrect to refer to Shankara as Adi Shankara? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Churning the Milk Ocean
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most popular version of the Indian myth 'Churning the Milk Ocean' is found in the Eighth Canto of the Bhagavata Purana. In Buddhist mythology, Amrita is the drink of the gods, which grants them immortality. The Ninth Mandala of the Rigveda is known as the Soma Mandala. According to Terrence McKenna in his book The Food Of Gods, the psilocybin-containing Stropharia cubensis mushroom is a likely Soma candidate. Psilocybin, the active psychoactive component in Stropharia Cubensis has a strong hallucinogenic nature. Soma (Sanskrit), or Haoma (Avestan) was a ritual drink of importance among the early Indo-Iranians, and the later Vedic and Iranian cultures. It is frequently mentioned in the Rigveda, which contains many hymns praising its energizing or intoxicating qualities. Interesting how people want to assume that Soma is current hallucinogens. McKenna probably believed is own mind while tripping. Baseless assumption. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ASSC 10
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, TM never gets much play there, eventhough half the meditation researchers use MMY's theory of enlightenment progression as a starting point for their own theories. You think his theory is original? Didn't he say, nothin new under the sun? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Said I'd post this if I found it. If you haven't signed yours yet, please send it in soon :-) Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (to be signed by the teacher of TM) It is my privilege Maharishi, to promise to teach the Principles and Practice of Transcendental Meditation only as a teacher-employee of which accepts me as such, that I will always hold the teaching in trust for you, dear Maharishi, and that I will never use the teaching except as teacher in or other organizations founded by you for the purpose of carrying on our work of spreading Transcendental Meditation for the good of mankind; that as a teacher in I shall receive such compensation as shall be agreed between and myself in writing and except as agreed in writing I expect to receive no monetary compensation but am fully compensated by the love and joy I receive from the work by the alleviation of suffering that I may accomplish and by the wisdom I obtain, expulsate and cherish. In furtherance of this pledge I acknowledge that prior to receiving the training I had no prior knowledge of such system of Teaching; that there is no other available source where the knowledge of such training may be obtained; that such teaching has been imparted to me in trust and confidence; that such training is secret and unique. I further recognize as a Meditation Guide and Initiator I am a link in the chain of organizations that you have founded, and that to retain the purity of the teaching and movement you have laid down the wise rule that, should I ever cease to teach in or other organizations founded by you, for the purpose of teaching Transcendental Meditation, I may be restrained by appropriate process from using this secret teaching and Transcendental Meditation imparted to me. It is my fortune Guru Dev that I am being accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your alter Guru Dev that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organizations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Who in the Holy Tradition would ever accept money for such? They would go to hell. What Guru would ever put such a sacred bond to paper? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report
On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Vaj wrote: Which matha are you particularly referring to? The matha at Sringeri, the headquarters of the Saraswati sampradaya, the Dasanami sect founded by the Shakaracharya. Sringeri was the headquarters matha of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, whose teacher was Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Sringeri. snip Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not available to non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know much about the bija mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy was taught them by his master, Swami Brahmanand Saraswati over the course of thirteen years in the Himalayas. This has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you read books? If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh know this information? Does his name contain Saraswati? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Churning the Milk Ocean
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute_ff wrote: Interesting how people want to assume that Soma is current hallucinogens. Hallucinogen ingestion has existed since the beginning of plant cultivation. Apparently one of the first plants domesticated by man was the barley plant, from which the ancients made beer. Closely followed by hemp and then shrooms. There's no evidence that alcaloid use is a recent practice in India. Millions of yogis, fakirs, and saints chew betel nut and dip snuff on a daily basis in India and have done so for thousands of years. McKenna probably believed is own mind while tripping. Maybe so, but there's no evidence that McKenna ever tripped on anything. Baseless assumption. We can assume that what was composed in Mandala X in the Rig Veda by the rishis was an accurate description of a decotion called Soma. I therefore infer from the scriptures that Amrita is the Food of the Gods, an elixir that enabled immortality. Maybe you've got a better theory than McKenna - if so please post it here. No better theory...No disagreement about what you have purported here. Just disagreeing with McKenna saying psylocibin mushrooms are soma. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute_ff wrote: Who in the Holy Tradition would ever accept money for such? Most all Holy Traditions in India accept money for operational expenses. How do you think they build temples? I've seen donor's names carved into the rock base of some temples. It's a common practice in India to give money to your guru for instruction. They would go to hell. Maybe so, but you or I don't get to make up the rules. What Guru would ever put such a sacred bond to paper? Maybe not to paper, but it's all recited on a daily basis in the puja to Guru Dev anyway. The TM puja contains an admonition to bow down before your guru and pay homage. Bring fruit and flowers - these all cost money. Most Indian spiritual traditions have an oath - some are even secret oaths, such as those in the tantric tradition. It's SOP for devotees. If you have read the Bhagavata then you should know what it says about one who sells this secret knowledge. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute_ff wrote: If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh know this information? By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then studying with his master for thirteen years? Does his name contain Saraswati? Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru Dev. Not to mention his given name, Mahesh, which means Shiva Yogi. But Mahesh doesn't need any names at all really - a Maharishi dwarfs any epithets given to most others. But I suspect that the reason Mahesh isn't a Saraswati is that a person has to join the recluse order founded by Shankaracharya before the surname Saraswati is used. Mahesh didn't want to join the Order - Swamis suffer, Yogis enjoy. Would a real Maharishi goes into business? Would one say give me a million to sit in another room and watch me on TV? There is no Maharishi in TMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute_ff wrote: If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh know this information? By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then studying with his master for thirteen years? Does his name contain Saraswati? Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru Dev. Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or so I understood. now this opens up that can of worms. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara's native language?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: In my understanding Shrii Shankara is thought to have been born somewhere in the southern parts of India. Kerala If that's the case, I wonder how likely it is that his native language was one of the Dravidian languages of southern India. http://www.ancientscripts.com/grantha.html ? (Depends on the time you assume he lived) I've always wondered why the first Shankara would be called the original one WHILE he was alive, but who knows... Why would you presume that he was called Adi Shankara while he walked the earth? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara's native language?
In a message dated 4/3/06 4:40:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: my understanding Shrii Shankara is thought to have been born somewhere in the southern parts of India. If that's the case, I wonder how likely it is that his native language was one of the Dravidian languages of southern India. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ebonics? Foolish thinking. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Shankara's native language?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my understanding Shrii Shankara is thought to have been born somewhere in the southern parts of India. If that's the case, I wonder how likely it is that his native language was one of the Dravidian languages of southern India. As Lord Siva incarnate mastering the Vedas by age 3, maybe his native tongue was the sound of Veda. If this is the case what language would be unknown to him? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: something about our inner world
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ankur Saxena [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there are lot of hidden truths that are still to be discovered and that lies with in the subtel layers of our conciousness. The more we go deeper, the more facts comes in front of us. i am doing some spiritual practise like chanting Gayatri Mahamanta and doing Pranaayam, Dhayaan etc. from quite some time. and i feel that i m getting mroe and more better in my personal , social and professional life. speacially chanting Gayatri mahamantra helps me a lot in discovering myself and improving my hidden potentials. Here is a very good online free book that is compeletly dedicated over Gayatri Mantra and its Teachings. http://www.awgp.org/english/books/gayatri_sadhana_why_how.pdf http://www.awgp.org/gamma/EngBookGSWH I will really appriciate all of us to start chanting Gayatri Mantra and to feel its power in the form of prudence and divine upliftment. It is good to hear your sadhana is progressing. Did you receive Gayathri from Guru or get it from book? Many westerners think we can pick up book or just hear some mantra and start to get good results. Most sacred books from India say initiation from guru is necessary. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
I am happy for you that you have perfected the siddhi to talk to elites living 10 years in the future. Perhaps you can ask them what the price of major stocks are in 2016. Talking to elites today would be quite dumb, and was not the focus of my post -- other than examples highlighting perenial qualities of elites such as willing to pay a premium for a differentiated product or service with valued attributes. Asking someone in 1985 how much they were willing to pay for broadband internet service would be dumb. Asking college kids in 1957 -- the year of sputnik -- if they would line up around the block to hear an small indian man in robes talk about bliss and cosmic consciousness would be dumb. Its not out of the realm of possibilities that in the future, if a wave of new high grade and respected research was be published on TM in premier journals, and hundreds of refined and attractive SV teaching ceters are established, and if a set of articulate, educated and socially adept teachers doing program 6 hours a day, living in SV house, etc) are realities, then some in the top 2-3% of society may be attracted to the new TM. Things like kings seem very odd now -- but who knows in 10 years? When M. announced the Age of Enlightenment many thought he was going way over the line of public acceptance. Really. At the time, many saw it as a radical move. Over time, things that seemed over the line and radical, are common place 10 years later. And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its quite a closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of society will be going to SV centers to learn TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how many elite people the posters who are coming up with these theories have talked to lately, but among the ones I know, nothing on Earth could possibly be considered more passé, old, *not* in vogue, or downright embarrassing to be part of than TM. It has all the allure and sexiness of being Presbyterian. The people who are looking for the spiritually hip thing to do just *ain't* gonna consider TM. To believe that they might if we just dress it up nice and charge more for it is just an indication of how far out of touch the TM movement is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: Perhaps you are mixing apples and oranges. How many elites -- for simplicity lets say those making over $300,000 /year, go to the local, ubiquitous type of kinda funky yoga studio at the local small mall? Not many. They go to an expensive health club or spa to learn the same thing. Many other examples possible where those making good incomes are willing to pay a large premium for conveninece, competence, and class (nice surroundings, people like them). Why do they pay $400 a night to stay in a nice hotel when the local Motel 6 also has a bed and shower? Why do they pay 35,000 and $300 a month to belong to a private golf club when they could use the local public one for free? And while I am not saying it will happen, its not out of the realm of possibilities that a wave of new high grade and respected research will be published on TM. This would (further) differentiates TM from other techniques -- (even if research would show the same for other programs -- if it does not exist, TM will be strongly differentiated.) And its not unreasonable the the new TM (taught in a SV bulidng, by teachers doing program 6 hours a day, living in SV house, etc) may have positive factors associated with it. It is not a differentiated set of qualities that you would pay a premium for. The top 2-5% of the population may very well be willing for the right product. Again, I am not saying the new TM will fill the bill, but its not an unreasonable conjecture that it might. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: I don't think the elite of the world give a flying u-know-what about TM and paying $2500 to learn it. It is *passe* at this point. There are far too many more modern methods in the spiritual supermarket these days. At the local natural foods co-op where I shop, there is the requisite magazine rack near the registers loaded with the modern spiritual versions of the popular magazines-a vast variety of things to choose from-all kinds of meditation practices, all kinds of sexual preference magazines, gardening, cooking, etc. Most cities and towns including little tiny ones I've driven through have yoga offered and the *commonest* of people, the people who we never would have expected to find taking yoga, are now joining in the classes. Kaiser Permanente offeres Mindfulness Training classes, sometimes they are free. There are endless books, tapes
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote: And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its quite a closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of society will be going to SV centers to learn TM. It's also rather naive to think that the top 2-3% of society-- arguably the most sophisticated shoppers and consumers--would not And while I am not saying it will happen, the 20,000+ USD it would take to get the TM technique it's not-so-advanced TM advanced techniques and the TM$P. It would not take a great deal of savy in the Spiritual Supermarket to know that you could get a lot more for a lot less than what TM programs cost--even if the prices were significantly reduced. Yes,, all the elite golfers in 10 years finally saw through the ridiculous pricing ofcountry clubs and are all flocking to public courses. And Nordstroms is closing in 2016 I hear, all the elites got wise and started shopping at walmart as they saw through the Nordstoms fluff. And the Four Seasons hotel chain is closing in 2016 its doors. Those savy elites finally got it that they could get a bed at motel 6 for 1/10 the price. Also the level of spiritual naivete on 'things eastern' is much less than it was in TM's hayday. It is likely the level of understanding will only increase in the future, further lessening the palatability of 'be-all and end-all' meditation techniques sold as a fast-track to enlightenment. And hasn't the main influx in Neo-Hindu meditation *already* shifted to SSRS's empire--including the top 2-3%? And what pray tell does that have to do with the possibilities of a speculative though possible manifestation of a neo-TM in Years? But I disagree with your assessment of AOL. Lots of elites I dont think want to sit on the floor in funky facilities and sing bajans, or go to courses and hug everyone while saying I belong to you, or sleep in a room with a stranger -- at shared rooms or dorm room only facilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote: And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its quite a closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of society will be going to SV centers to learn TM. It's also rather naive to think that the top 2-3% of society-- arguably the most sophisticated shoppers and consumers--would not And while I am not saying it will happen, the 20,000+ USD it would take to get the TM technique it's not-so-advanced TM advanced techniques and the TM$P. It would not take a great deal of savy in the Spiritual Supermarket to know that you could get a lot more for a lot less than what TM programs cost--even if the prices were significantly reduced. Yes,, all the elite golfers in 10 years finally saw through the ridiculous pricing ofcountry clubs and are all flocking to public courses. And Nordstroms is closing in 2016 I hear, all the elites got wise and started shopping at walmart as they saw through the Nordstoms fluff. And the Four Seasons hotel chain is closing in 2016 its doors. Those savy elites finally got it that they could get a bed at motel 6 for 1/10 the price. Also the level of spiritual naivete on 'things eastern' is much less than it was in TM's hayday. It is likely the level of understanding will only increase in the future, further lessening the palatability of 'be-all and end-all' meditation techniques sold as a fast-track to enlightenment. And hasn't the main influx in Neo-Hindu meditation *already* shifted to SSRS's empire--including the top 2-3%? And what pray tell does that have to do with the possibilities of a speculative though possible manifestation of a neo-TM in 10 years? But I disagree with your assessment of AOL. I dont find thant many of the top 2-3% income levels that want to sit on the floor in funky facilities and sing bajans, or go to courses and hug everyone while saying I belong to you, or share a room with a stranger -- at shared rooms or dorm room only facilities. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people who are looking for the spiritually hip kind of an oxymoron. I wanna be spiritual but my ego needs to feel hip. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Do your friends laugh at the shriner hospitals BTW? Do you think rajas are like shriner hospitals? I have seen many laugh at shriner circuses though. I'm sure telling people with a newly kindled interest in TM that they actually paid to look like that would definately inspire them to start TM. JohnY I can imagine you guys as consultants to the catholic church centuries past: Hey, the public will never go for these robes and crowns and big fancy marble churches. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! I mean this church is about ministring to the poor. If you put the pope in fancy gowns and three foot golden headwear, mark my words, its the END of the Church, No spiritually hip person, no elite, no poor will come within 100 miles of the church. It will NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! happen! Uncli, Joyoue and Vaja Consultants 432 AD To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 24, 2006, at 11:04 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:24 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote: And while I am not saying it will happen, my point is that its quite a closed mind to say absolutely that it is outside the realm of possibilities that some decent number of the top 2-3% of society will be going to SV centers to learn TM. It's also rather naive to think that the top 2-3% of society-- arguably the most sophisticated shoppers and consumers--would not And while I am not saying it will happen, the 20,000+ USD it would take to get the TM technique it's not-so-advanced TM advanced techniques and the TM$P. It would not take a great deal of savy in the Spiritual Supermarket to know that you could get a lot more for a lot less than what TM programs cost--even if the prices were significantly reduced. Yes,, all the elite golfers in 10 years finally saw through the ridiculous pricing ofcountry clubs and are all flocking to public courses. And Nordstroms is closing in 2016 I hear, all the elites got wise and started shopping at walmart as they saw through the Nordstoms fluff. And the Four Seasons hotel chain is closing in 2016 its doors. Those savy elites finally got it that they could get a bed at motel 6 for 1/10 the price. This is not an analogous comparison: in each of the above instances, when you pay more money, you get more. The elite know this and will pay more, to get more. They are therefore unlikely to pay more for TM to get less when they can get more--often much more--elsewhere for their buck. What is the more that they get? They all get similar clothing, a safe bed and shower, and a place to play golf. The extra non-core attributes, some value some don't. Many elite do value them and will pay for them. How can you possibly say with certainty that the beyond core attributes that the TMO, or some org, is able to provide in 10 years will not have sufficient value to the top 3% of earners that they will pay for them? But I disagree with your assessment of AOL. Lots of elites I dont think want to sit on the floor in funky facilities and sing bajans, or go to courses and hug everyone while saying I belong to you, or sleep in a room with a stranger -- at shared rooms or dorm room only facilities. Or the toxic mold of Livingston Manor? It would be interesting to know what the occupancy rates are at the Raj--a facility which might appeal to some elite who enjoy vacations in Iowa. You and Barry can contine to respond to ghost posts that manifest only in your minds, but the point I am raising as conjecture is that a neo-TM in ten years, if properly done, may be attractive to the top 2-3% of incomes earners. That has nothing to do with toxix mold in Livingsoton Manor in 2006. Regarding the Raj, I have not been there so Ican't address it. But I have been to Chopra's Center in La Jolla, and lots of elites were flocking there. And his prices were on par, perhaps higher than the Raj. And 20 times what the local AV tech was offering 5 miles away in Pacific Beach, in their garage for the same thing. My point has little to do with the TM brand, and nothing to do with loyalties to the TM -- I left for the most part, body, heart and soul, in 1978. But I think that there is an opportunity and need for SOMEONE, som org, to do IT in a classy, polished that appeals to the upper strata of society. And clients will be happy to pay a premium price. MMY actually does a lot of things in a classy way -- perhaps too polished for many of our tastes. But that he or his team eventually are the ones that do IT right within 10 years, I think is possible, but probably less than 10% probability. That SOMEONE does it right -- with M. type prices, within 10 years, I think has a greater than 50% probability. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: The people who are looking for the spiritually hip kind of an oxymoron. I wanna be spiritual but my ego needs to feel hip. I tend to agree, but it's a factor to be dealt with out there in the olde spiritual smorgasbord. My point is that -- among the ones doing the shopping -- TM is considered pretty much the most pedestrian, least interesting, and least viable of the many spiritual paths. If you talk to people who are cruising the lectures and the bookstores in search of enlightenment or even a little peace these days, you'll find that for most of them learning TM is considered pretty much the last resort, a fallback position if nothing else works out for them. I've actually heard the phrase, Well, you can always learn TM, followed by group laughter at the idea of some poor schmoe who is so out of it that the only thing he could learn is TM. I'm not saying it *should* be -- I actually think that plain vanilla TM is more beneficial than many of the things considered hipper -- but that's the way it is. I just think that the people who still think it's widely respected should get out more. I agree. TM as we know it, AKA the SIMS days, the way it was taught, its image,etc are dead. What I am postulating is that a new, classy TM, with world class research, nice SV teaching centers, glowing classy teachers dripping with ojas, may be attractive to those making over $300-400,000 a year, in 10 years or so. Or some other program will fill the need. At the same prices. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:51 AM, anon_astute_ff wrote: MMY actually does a lot of things in a classy way -- perhaps too polished for many of our tastes. Sterile, elitist and completely removed from reality has little to do with real class, which generally isn't something you can buy or put a label on. OK, you don't look like one of the target customers. But that he or his team eventually are the ones that do IT right within 10 years, I think is possible, but probably less than 10% probability. That SOMEONE does it right -- with M. type prices, within 10 years, I think has a greater than 50% probability. I'd stay away from the casinos at Vegas if I were you. Because they are without class I presume. If you are conserned about my probabilities, are you thinking that its a greater than 10% probability that the ne0-TMO will be able to put together a service that appeals to those making $300k ? Wow. you are optimistic. My point has been that the above is not a non-zero probability, though it may be low. As you learn when you formally study probability and risk, most people are quite prone to incorrectly assign extreme probabilities e.g., (It will never happen). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: From a friend. Anyone know the answer to this?: I've heard that there is some phrase that helps someone passing on.that is to be whispered to them as they pass. Do you know of this? Having a notion that you know what is best to say to someone upon their passing is such arrogant thinking. (albeit innocent) Not surprising attitudes coming from a bastardized version of what Adi Shankara began long ago. Being told we knew everything in order to give some innocent fool enlightentment. It's to be expected in this kali age that this type of thinking would develop into believing we know what sounds should be the last that some poor soul should hear. Does anyone here really believe they know what is best for another's journey? Can you imagine the karmic ramifications of such an act? Who would want to incur such? Is it not best to chant names of the Lord for yourself, praying for their well being, leaving it up to God? Om Shanti Glad to see that you have transcended arrogance. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Do your friends laugh at the shriner hospitals BTW? Do you think rajas are like shriner hospitals? I have seen many laugh at shriner circuses though. I'm sure telling people with a newly kindled interest in TM that they actually paid to look like that would definately inspire them to start TM. JohnY I can imagine you guys as consultants to the catholic church centuries past: Hey, the public will never go for these robes and crowns and big fancy marble churches. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! I mean this church is about ministring to the poor. If you put the pope in fancy gowns and three foot golden headwear, mark my words, its the END of the Church, No spiritually hip person, no elite, no poor will come within 100 miles of the church. It will NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! happen! Uncli, Joyoue and Vaja Consultants 432 AD That's our point. (1) The TMO is making itself look like a medieval religion. If it wants to market itself that way it can, but according to most of the faithful here that's not what the TMO is about. (2) The Church did lose it's proper focus on the simple teachings of jesus just as the TMO is losing its focus. I think one could argue that the spiritually hip and aware have indeed avoided the institutional church ever since about 432 AD. Well I left it in 428 and was still very hip. :) But you appear to be confusing two separate points. First, my point, is that people are not as turned off by some radical things ten or 50 years hence, as we may initially think. Second, a focus on ostentatious behavior may well be a sign of decline on any organizations, particlularly a spiritual one. Though perhaps less to for one focusing solely on ostentatious people (top 3% of earners) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elites/rich people are typically penny pinchers. They go out of their way to save the odd dollar. Uh huh. Thats why they shop at Nordstroms and stay at $500 / night hotels. I am not saying they are not looking of a deal but its of theorder of saving 15% on a case of $150/bottle Merlot. They want also the badges of the elite - designer labels etc to demonstrate that money is no object when it comes to show their appreciation of quality and celebrate their belonging to a priviledged group. Um, but they penny pinch when doing so, right? The trouble, for MMY, is that whilst TM may represent quality so do other techniques such as Buddhist ones, now also boasting scientific validation; moreover there is a global traditional culture of spirituality that is clearly at odds with the materialism of the TMO, which therefore makes it suspect. And as others have pointed out, as soon as anyone investigates the TMO's public image there are not one but a huge number of things that are off-putting. The TMO is just not cool, it's downright embarassing. And you are 100% certain this will be the case in ten years, when the new wave of Lynch (and other) funded research MAY be published in premier journals, gorgeous real good-vibe peace palaces MAY be in every wealthy neighborhood, and neo-TM teachers MAY be from elite families, socialy connected and adept, and dripping with ojas and peacefulness, doing program 6-8 hours a day? If attracting the elite was the objective then it would have made sense to get elite advice on how to do this. Um, getting several hundred people willing to pay one million seems like a darn good focus group to me. The reason so many of us are baffled, the non-elites, right? I think, is that the whole unfolding of the TMO and its activities seems uninformed, mindless and counterproductive. And you have been there in the planning sessions when this unfolded? You are 100% certain there is no substance to M.'s 50-100 years plans for the org? The only thing that makes any overall sense sense to to you, right? Not sense in an objective sense,right? is the money-grabbing tunnel-vision interpretation; And yours is NOT a tunnel-vision interpretation? and a systematic avoidance of putting the large pundit groups effect to the test (MMY could have done it with his own resources decades ago). You know this as 100% certain, and you know all of the tradeoffs and factors involved inthe decision? Glad to see TM as made you so arrogance-free. There is too much ignorance and denigration of what good already exists around around this post? - beautiful buildings and cities, democratic principles, human rights, musical and visual sophistication, sublime spiritual icons. In their place wooden, ridiculous, robotic figures are exaulted as infallible authority figures You know the rajas personally? Now? I saw a video of Raja Felix. He did a good job, mannerism wise -- not wooden at all. Bright, corgial, humerous, relaxed. And his wife was quite beautiful,graceful, and down to earth. who seem as unspiritual again, you hang with the rajas and have a basis for a cogent opinion? This doesn't seem a good return on such personal investment for anyone, let alone an elite! Well, lucky for you, you are not an elite and won't have to make that decisions. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: I often appreciate your point of view which recognizes the value of the technique and the notion that some things are at least within the realm of the conceivable (if not the practical, or maybe even possible), but I have to ask here--whence arrise the need to test whose loyalty? Why does any governor who had been active *especially* during the past 15-20 years or longer need their loyalty tested? Why does any ordinary practitioner of TM need loyalty at all, let alone need to have it tested? The rajahs were tested fortheir loyalty by paying $1 million for the privledge of wearing funny hats. In exchange, they were given managerial positions in the TMO. Can you imagine Deepak Chopra ever wearing a funny hat in public? Sure. He wears funny sweaters all the time. SSRS wears very funny hats sometimes. If you can't laugh at yourself, the stick up your butt prevents the kundalini from fully flowing. Kundalini Sutras, Ch xii, V34 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip I think it's worth noting that the concept of loyalty test tends to be promoted here by those who never became TM teachers. They've never risked *anything* or put *anything* on the line for the TM movement. But in their eyes those who have -- for decades -- are legitimately considered disloyal because they can no longer stomach the never-ending stream of insanity coming from an insane organization. I was going to ask Sparaig, when was the last time that he taught someone, or even dealt with the questions of someone that's interested, or even tried to explain the price of TM. But I did not want to seem mean. Suggestion: First ask Lawson whether he personally considers the teachers who have chosen not to take the loyalty test to be disloyal, or whether that's something Barry dredged up from his own sour fantasies and presented as if it were fact. There are two loyalty tests: 1) paying a million dollars for the privledge of wearing a funny hat and helping to run the TMO; 2) accepting the requirement of recertification (and apparently bowing to the Rajahs) before going out to teach TM under the auspices of the TMO. or #3, there is no loyalty test, its the figment of some overactive imaginations. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In what way is SSRS more popular? I just saw an interview with HHDL on CNN. Quite nice in itself. But in a follow up interview with the DL interviewer, he mentioned meditation, and said whether its Transcendental Meditation or any meditation, lots of people are seeking meditation [as part of a secularly spiritual life]. Everyone knows the term Transcendental Meditation and TM. How many know the term Sudarshan Kryia (one of the main programs of SSRS)? Or if you mention Ravi Shankar and/or AOL -- how many think of SSRS and the Art of Living org, and not that sitar player, or father of Nora Jones, and America-on-Line? SSRS and AOL may be getting quite popular in india, but I don't see AOL experiencing anything like the SIMS days popularity in the US. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anon_astute: well lucky you, you are so astute... you are 100% sure the elite are not penny-pinching ...And you are 100% certain.. etc etc... No I don't expect either of us are 100% sure of anything. It's my opinion, and it's your opinion. That's good enough for me. I don't think though the Rajas represent a good focus group. A political party, for instance, would want a focus group representing the spectrum of the population, not a group composed of the most generous party supporters... No I wasn't there in the planning sessions when this unfolded? But it's not a minority who think that the whole unfolding of the TMO and its activities seems uninformed, mindless and counterproductive. That is just observable outcome. But clearly you are more hopeful about the TMO and I have no interest in undermining your positivity and trust; But I just need an outlet for my own sense of disappointment. I used to be positive trusting myself.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: Elites/rich people are typically penny pinchers. They go out of their way to save the odd dollar. Uh huh. Thats why they shop at Nordstroms and stay at $500 / night hotels. I am not saying they are not looking of a deal but its of theorder of saving 15% on a case of $150/bottle Merlot. They want also the badges of the elite - designer labels etc to demonstrate that money is no object when it comes to show their appreciation of quality and celebrate their belonging to a priviledged group. Um, but they penny pinch when doing so, right? The trouble, for MMY, is that whilst TM may represent quality so do other techniques such as Buddhist ones, now also boasting scientific validation; moreover there is a global traditional culture of spirituality that is clearly at odds with the materialism of the TMO, which therefore makes it suspect. And as others have pointed out, as soon as anyone investigates the TMO's public image there are not one but a huge number of things that are off-putting. The TMO is just not cool, it's downright embarassing. And you are 100% certain this will be the case in ten years, when the new wave of Lynch (and other) funded research MAY be published in premier journals, gorgeous real good-vibe peace palaces MAY be in every wealthy neighborhood, and neo-TM teachers MAY be from elite families, socialy connected and adept, and dripping with ojas and peacefulness, doing program 6-8 hours a day? If attracting the elite was the objective then it would have made sense to get elite advice on how to do this. Um, getting several hundred people willing to pay one million seems like a darn good focus group to me. The reason so many of us are baffled, the non-elites, right? I think, is that the whole unfolding of the TMO and its activities seems uninformed, mindless and counterproductive. And you have been there in the planning sessions when this unfolded? You are 100% certain there is no substance to M.'s 50-100 years plans for the org? The only thing that makes any overall sense sense to to you, right? Not sense in an objective sense,right? is the money-grabbing tunnel-vision interpretation; And yours is NOT a tunnel-vision interpretation? and a systematic avoidance of putting the large pundit groups effect to the test (MMY could have done it with his own resources decades ago). You know this as 100% certain, and you know all of the tradeoffs and factors involved inthe decision? Glad to see TM as made you so arrogance-free. There is too much ignorance and denigration of what good already exists around around this post? - beautiful buildings and cities, democratic principles, human rights, musical and visual sophistication, sublime spiritual icons. In their place wooden, ridiculous, robotic figures are exaulted as infallible authority figures You know the rajas personally? Now? I saw a video of Raja Felix. He did a good job, mannerism wise -- not wooden at all. Bright, corgial, humerous, relaxed. And his wife was quite beautiful,graceful, and down to earth. who seem as unspiritual again, you hang with the rajas and have a basis for a cogent opinion? This doesn't seem a good return on such personal investment for anyone, let alone an elite! Well, lucky for you, you are not an elite and won't have to make that decisions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But clearly you are more hopeful about the TMO I said I think there is less than a 10% chance the TMO will be successful in the elite market in ten years. Thats not particularly hopeful. Actually, hope has nothing to do with it. I don't care one way or another -- though I am hopeful and somewhat confident (50/50 probability) that some org will sucessfully tailor programs for that market. and I have no interest in undermining your positivity and trust; None to undermine. I am just saying that there is more than a zero probability that the TMO could be successful in the elite market in ten years. Most posts here assume a zero chance. I think that is short-sighted and closed-minded. But I just need an outlet for my own sense of disappointment. Yes, it sounded more like venting than rational analysis. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure. But I'm assuing there is SOME rationale for the rajah's funny hats besides MMY's need to be surrounded by kings... Have the anti-crown crowd, or its just anarchaic mideval thing observers, had a face to face with God lately? Or Gods? Notice thier head wear? Perhaps large slanty crowns and head pieces actually reflect an eternal value of virtue and wisdom. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than long hair did in the 60's-- compared to the 40s. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than organic foods growing at 20% a year in mainstream america in 2006 compared to 1980's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Sure. But I'm assuing there is SOME rationale for the rajah's funny hats besides MMY's need to be surrounded by kings... Have the anti-crown crowd, or its just anarchaic mideval thing observers, had a face to face with God lately? Or Gods? Notice thier head wear? Perhaps large slanty crowns and head pieces actually reflect an eternal value of virtue and wisdom. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than long hair did in the 60's-- compared to the 40s. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than organic foods growing at 20% a year in mainstream america in 2006 compared to 1980's. And maybe monkeys will fly out of your butt. They already do. Didn't you get that siddhi? I can also make them fly out of my mouth. (Yeah, I already know all the monkey breath jokes.) I can even make them fly out with jeweled crowns. I wonder. Do people think Norwegians and Thais are out of it and hoplessly wierd because they have a king? And do they think it so so very odd and bizzare that the royalty wear crowns? (I think.) Hereditary rulers in the domain of consciousness is kind of a nice idea IMO. If they can keep collective consciousness clear, bright and progressive, where is the problem? IF the influence of their programs is shown scientifically to have a beneficial effect, the laughter will settle down - and respect will grow. I think some on this list present things far more humorous than rich men wearing crowns. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Perhaps large slanty crowns and head pieces actually reflect an eternal value of virtue and wisdom. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than long hair did in the 60's-- compared to the 40s. Maybe in 10-20 years, it will not seem any more strange than organic foods growing at 20% a year in mainstream america in 2006 compared to 1980's. And maybe monkeys will fly out of your butt. They already do. Didn't you get that siddhi? They fly out much easier once the the stick in your butt is removed -- the one that makes one so rigid and mocking of new things. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: In what way is SSRS more popular? He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools. Ah, though we have had some great displays of arrogance today, I think Bob takes the crown. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
Yes, the deep compassion is awe-inspiring. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's always so refreshing to see how those who are the most enthusiastic about TM are also those who show such understanding and open-mindedness to other ways of thinking. Clearly, TM is working for you. What's the next step...witch burnings? Public hangings? Sal On Mar 24, 2006, at 4:16 PM, bob_brigante wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: In what way is SSRS more popular? He's popular among people whose dark auras are offended by the light of TM...the poison SSRS peddles looks like nectar to fools. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th
Perhaps you are mixing apples and oranges. How many elites -- for simplicity lets say those making over $300,000 /year, go to the local, ubiquitous type of kinda funky yoga studio at the local small mall? Not many. They go to an expensive health club or spa to learn the same thing. Many other examples possible where those making good incomes are willing to pay a large premium for conveninece, competence, and class (nice surroundings, people like them). Why do they pay $400 a night to stay in a nice hotel when the local Motel 6 also has a bed and shower? Why do they pay 35,000 and $300 a month to belong to a private golf club when they could use the local public one for free? And while I am not saying it will happen, its not out of the realm of possibilities that a wave of new high grade and respected research will be published on TM. This would (further) differentiates TM from other techniques -- (even if research would show the same for other programs -- if it does not exist, TM will be strongly differentiated.) And its not unreasonable the the new TM (taught in a SV bulidng, by teachers doing program 6 hours a day, living in SV house, etc) may have positive factors associated with it. It is not a differentiated set of qualities that you would pay a premium for. The top 2-5% of the population may very well be willing for the right product. Again, I am not saying the new TM will fill the bill, but its not an unreasonable conjecture that it might. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think the elite of the world give a flying u-know-what about TM and paying $2500 to learn it. It is *passe* at this point. There are far too many more modern methods in the spiritual supermarket these days. At the local natural foods co-op where I shop, there is the requisite magazine rack near the registers loaded with the modern spiritual versions of the popular magazines-a vast variety of things to choose from-all kinds of meditation practices, all kinds of sexual preference magazines, gardening, cooking, etc. Most cities and towns including little tiny ones I've driven through have yoga offered and the *commonest* of people, the people who we never would have expected to find taking yoga, are now joining in the classes. Kaiser Permanente offeres Mindfulness Training classes, sometimes they are free. There are endless books, tapes, cds and now dvds available to learn to meditate and do yoga and you can now do so on your 52 inch plasma tv screen in full technicolor with a surround sound system. Who wants to learn TM from a gaunt looking couple anymore? Can you name one person or center where there are students taking out $2500 loans so they can learn TM? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [...] Say what you will about his odd tastes, the man puts *his* money where his beliefs are. He could be taking his money and investing it in real estate the way the TM movement does, but he's not. He's actually doing something to help people. The day the TM movement does the same, it'll regain a tiny bit of its vanished credibility. I understand what he's doing and admire the fact he's figured out a way to do it, but it still boggles the mind that he has to do it that way. Elite people like to go to elite places. They don't mind too much if worthy individuals are given a helping hand along the way, but they don't like rubbing shoulders with the non-elite. MMY's stated goal these days is to reach the elite with meditation. The non-elite (most of us reading/writing this) are welcome as well if they can raise the money. I don't know the financing of Lynch's foundation, but he's thrown open the doors for ANY student to apply for financial aid: http://www.davidlynchfoundation.org/register.html Also, the TMO is working hard to make educators aware of the potential of TM as well as of the financing available to take advantage of it: http://www.arizonastressfreeschools.org/ The elite of the world are impressed with this kind of thing. Perhaps the more spiritual types aren't, but that IS MMY's point, now isn't it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend. Anyone know the answer to this?: I've heard that there is some phrase that helps someone passing on .that is to be whispered to them as they pass. Do you know of this? Looks like we will be leaving for () tonight as my husband¹s dad won't be around much longermaybe not even 24 hours. I don't think I can do a puja there but I remember someone somewhere telling me about this phrase. Thanks. Bosco To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying
And god forbid you raise your stick and run after Sal. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Try running after a child with a stick in your hand and, if noticed by another adult, get ready for a trip down to the local police station, at the very least. The workers he ran after were children?? Sal On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:57 AM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: My sense in seeing these outbursts live, is that he was not angry as we think of it. It was more a drama he was creating to make a point. Like running after workers with a stick. He was neither violently inclined -- nor out of control ,rajo guna inflamed. Like a parent who feigns anger with a child to make it clear Listen up! This is important! I assume you are making a witty remark, and not seriously implying I was advocating running after children with sticks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). Not equivalent. We're short on recruits, and the troops in Iraq are exhausted. Even a single new recruit helps the war effort a little. I am sorry, I don't follow your logic. We're short on recruits so blocking troop trains and planes (or something more creative) will not slow the war effort? One single individual going to jail in protest is not going to impede the war effort in the slightest. Ghandi and MLK would disagree by example. And as far going to jail, I am surprised at your argument. A growing number of people going to jail, as in vietnam and civil rights movement would have an effect, IMO. A growing number starts with the commitment of individuals. But all of this skirts the issue. I asked, Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? If my example is weak, perhaps you can pose a better example of Should the reverse be true Those who are pro-war can be successful directly in proportion to their numbers if they enlist. I am not sure of this logic. Many predict troop drawdowns by summer -- during congressional campaigns. Those who are antiwar can be successful *only* if their numbers are massive (e.g., enough to elect an antiwar president). As in every congressional election, individuals, can make big a difference. A small group of dedicated individuals can create alarge impact. Massive not required. Though nice, and why not massive? Judy, keep your puppy-chow close by for this one ;) Jim, by your comment I assume you disagree with my analysis but some how can't come up with a cogent arguement to enlighten us as to why, resorting to apparently snide remarks. Which points do you specifically disagree with? 1) Ghandi and MLK would disagree by example that a single individual going to jail will not make a difference. 2) A growing number of people going to jail, as in vietnam and civil rights movement would have an effect, IMO. A growing number starts with the commitment of individuals. 3) Many predict troop drawdowns by summer -- during congressional campaigns. 4) As in every congressional election, individuals, can make big a difference. 5) A small group of dedicated individuals can create a large impact. 6) Massive not required. Though nice, and why not massive? Each point seems reasonable to me, but I await your enlightened insight to provide greater clarity on these points. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Striving and Seeking
Some of us are finders. But, you have a bug up your ass about that, too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to SEEKERS of truth and liberation everywhere. FFL Masthead Thats perhaps the problem. A band of merry seekers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: You will receive everything you need when you stop asking for what you do not need. The very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. If you are seeking what is the truth about yourself, then realize that what you are seeking you already are that, in totality. The false believe in a so called mind seemingly creates an individual seeker with a false sense of separation from pure Awareness, just realize that thoughts are not the real you or your ever-present unchanging Reality. The pure essence or pure presence that is prior to all thoughts, it is that undeniable sense of Presence that is translated with the thought I AM. That ordinary sense of presence of livingness/Awareness is our Natural State or True Nature. It is always present right Here right Now, always unchanging, always untouched by suffering, always untouched by thoughts, untouched by birth or death. It is effortless, just a little noticing of the you or Awareness, which is always present prior to thoughts. It is so obvious that we have overlooked it for so long, looking for something new outside ourselves, because it is no-thing, yet it is the very substratum of our existence, it is the very livingness itself, the core of our Being. Nisargadatta Maharaj If consciousness is who we already are, then seeking is the very opposite of what is necessary! If consciousness is who we already are, seeking of any kind obscures our true nature. The moment a spiritual search begins, one unwittingly plays a game of hide and seek where he or she simultaneously plays both parts! In Advaita, seeking is patently absurd because it implies a future time of finding. If all that exists is oneness, how can there be a past or future? Past and future are concepts in the mind, while the present momentright here, right nowis all that truly is. If there is an opposite to Advaita, it is the act of seeking! James Braha Stop all delays, all seeking and all striving. Put down your concepts, ideas and beliefs. For one instant be still and directly encounter the silent unknown core of your being. In that instant Freedom will embrace you and reveal the Awakening that you are. Adyashanti If all there is is Consciousness, if there is only Consciousness, then why or for what are you still seeking? If there is only Consciousness then right now you must be That and every thing else that appears in and as awareness must also be That, including any sense of separate self. Any appearance of mundane, ordinary existence can be no less of Consciousness than any appearance of unconditional love, wholeness, bliss, stillness, silence or anything else. Does anything really need to be transcended, found or let go of? Clarity By Nathan Gill STOP Striving! Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Wayne: The common question is, Is the guru necessary? My answer is that there are no requirements set forth by Consciousness. Consciousness can do anything It wants within the manifestation. Seeking is a phenomenal process, and that's what's crucial to understand-seeking is a phenomenal process. It happens within phenomenality; the various progressions that occur are in phenomenality; the impulse is in phenomenality; and the final event which is the dissolution of the seeking, actually the dissolution of personal doership, is in phenomenality. All that happens is in phenomenality. The result of the process of seeking is only notionally a result, because what it reveals is what is there all the time anyway. So there is really no progress in the absolute sense. Yet within the phenomenal structure of seeking and the seeker, the guru may play a role. In fact, in the lives of many seekers the guru is a figure central to the seeking. For those who have found a guru, who have found their true guru, there is no greater phenomenal experience. Wayne Liquorman, Advaita Fellowship -- student of Ramesh Balsekar The end of the search of the one who is seeking is the end of the seeker - it is the end of the experience of seeker-seeking-sought. This does not mean the end (or death) of the human mechanism (body, mind, personality), but rather the end of the identification as a separate me. Misc. It is essential to come to the point where you DECIDE that enough is enough. You decide that the seeking is over. You have already closed the door to problems and now you also stop seeking. All
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip So there's more to it than pointing out the shortcomings of any one particular individual. Too many people simply accept what they read and hear without applying critical thinking. How do you know? That presumes that silence is acquiesence. Not all feel or respond that way. An alternative view is that responders took the bait. First, I'm speaking generally here. I hardly think this country would be in the horrendous mess it's in today if a majority of people had employed critical thinking when they elected Bush and a Republican Congress. Quite a disconnect. I did not suggest abaondoning critical thinking. But perhaps you are just making an independent point. Those of us who *were* thinking critically appear to have been right on the money when they predicted what would happen. The complicity of the media and the cowardice of the Democrats in allowing Republican lies to go unchallenged--even to this day--has been a major factor in getting us where we are. I suppose some not employing critcal thinking might think the implcation of what you are saying is that those who do not engage people who clearly distort and twist things on FFL and in daily responsible are for Bush and Iraq. So many silly things are said by so many people in so many areas of life. Some are worhty of response, some are not. Instead of rsponding to all of them, I believe picking ones battles is a key to effectivness. It doesn't take much critical thinking to see that some posters respond to phantoms -- words that are not there, ideas not presented. You bet. We had a sterling example of that very situation in Sal's imputing to me annoyance with reporters' questions to MMY about the Beatles, among a number of such phantoms. Yet others here have quoted and supported her fantastical diatribes repeatedly. Ah, and such an important world shaking issue to spend finite time and atention on. Either via deviousness or deep clumsiness, they create ghost post worlds and respond to them. Whether one cares to reply to or comment on such silliness is another matter. Why do we tolerate the participation of such people on this forum, though? Tolerate,tolerate,tolerate. Such an interesting concept or frame. To me, its a false dichotomy: to tolerate or not tolerate. The dichotomy supposes there is an itch and one must either endure it, or scratch it. I find no itch. I see some silly people, either clumsy or clever (a la devious), either seeking atention or simple a shallow brook -- bubbling away when shallow waters find rocks in their path. Responding to such, while entertaining at times, simply feeds the seed. It gives attention, acknowledgement and credence to silliness. As if they had a real point of substance. If one has a point of substance to make, and to do so, must point out the shallowness or twisted nature of a poster's comments, ok then. But if the sole point is this person is silly -- why waste breath on the obvious. And what about those to whom it is not obvious?, you ask. Then they, are either silly and will not get it -- no matter how hard you elucidate -- or are in a temporary lapse -- and will wake up momentarily by their own wits. How many posts have you read denouncing MMY and the TMO for purported deception, while posters here regularly mangle the truth with no sanctions? And jumping into the pit of sand that such posters can't dig out of will help ? There's also an underlying sense--which may or may not be accurate but does have some influence on how people see things--that if one doesn't rebut something someone else has said, it's because one doesn't *have* a rebuttal, that silence constitutes acquiescence, and that what the person has said must be accurate. Why would one ever presume that? Quite a different mind set than mine. Quite possibly different than yours, or at least different than you're willing to recognize. I think at least some of this presumption may be subconscious. In some if not many caess, silence is the most powerful statement. It implies the post is not worthy of a response. Its a snub. That may be what it's intended to imply. The question is whether that is always what is inferred. And you can always be the football of someone elses values and attention. What matters is ones own view: is this a matter worthy of response? If not, why dignify the trivial? How others perceive that (response or non response) is their world, their resposnibility, their limitiation. Why tie ones life to such capricousness, particularly if it stems from silly minds? Perhaps rude, but less so than being pulled into the mire with someone who has no respect for facts
[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Demacracy has never worked in any population larger than Athens. But its never really been tried in many areas, like the US. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). If you support a military intervention, say to stop a genocide, should you be willing / mandated to join the infantry for such an effort? Should the principal apply to all policies --for example, if you want to reduce marlaria in Africa, go fly there with some mosquito nets -- instead of promoting government policy to support such? (Note recent article on guy in Indonesia doing it -- changing the world one step at a time.) If you want the cities sewage system to be overhauled, join the ciy maintnance dept and start digging? (a reasonable extension of the principal, but perhaps highlighting its shortcomings). Should the principal extend to voting with your feet? For example many proponents in the vietnam era shouted love it or leave it and as many draft age kids did (migrated to Canada). (And some, such as Unc appear to have done upon the election of Bush.) If one is concerned about global warming, should they cut their energy consumption dramatically? Will that individual action have much effect? And there are many policies that it appears one can have an opinion on, promote or be against, where individual direct action seems odd or inconsistant. For example, if one supports gay rights, is one a hypocrite if they don't start dating gays? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Socrates -- Know Thy Self
Socrates is best known for two words: Know Thyself. His command takes on more significance when you understand one of the most important values in Greek culture: areté. Translated as virtue, the word actually means something closer to being the best you can be, or reaching your highest human potential. Socrates believed that knowledge was the key to reaching one's potential--and no knowledge was more important than knowledge of oneself. Perhaps his most important contribution to Western thought is [Socrates] this dialectic method of inquiry, known as the Socratic Method or method of elenchos, which he largely applied to the examination of key moral concepts such as the Good and Justice, concepts used constantly without any real definition. ... In this method, a series of questions are posed to help a person or group to determine their underlying beliefs and the extent of their knowledge. The Socratic method is a negative method of hypothesis elimination, in that better hypotheses are found by steadily identifying and eliminating those which lead to contradictions. It was designed to force one to examine his own beliefs and the validity of such beliefs. In fact, Socrates once said, I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] LIVING REALITY -- James Braha site
http://www.jamesbraha.com/home.html Pictures -- Including Vashti -- James' wife and FFL contibutor http://www.jamesbraha.com/photos.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Value of Striving and Seeking
You will receive everything you need when you stop asking for what you do not need. The very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. If you are seeking what is the truth about yourself, then realize that what you are seeking you already are that, in totality. The false believe in a so called mind seemingly creates an individual seeker with a false sense of separation from pure Awareness, just realize that thoughts are not the real you or your ever-present unchanging Reality. The pure essence or pure presence that is prior to all thoughts, it is that undeniable sense of Presence that is translated with the thought I AM. That ordinary sense of presence of livingness/Awareness is our Natural State or True Nature. It is always present right Here right Now, always unchanging, always untouched by suffering, always untouched by thoughts, untouched by birth or death. It is effortless, just a little noticing of the you or Awareness, which is always present prior to thoughts. It is so obvious that we have overlooked it for so long, looking for something new outside ourselves, because it is no-thing, yet it is the very substratum of our existence, it is the very livingness itself, the core of our Being. Nisargadatta Maharaj If consciousness is who we already are, then seeking is the very opposite of what is necessary! If consciousness is who we already are, seeking of any kind obscures our true nature. The moment a spiritual search begins, one unwittingly plays a game of hide and seek where he or she simultaneously plays both parts! In Advaita, seeking is patently absurd because it implies a future time of finding. If all that exists is oneness, how can there be a past or future? Past and future are concepts in the mind, while the present momentright here, right nowis all that truly is. If there is an opposite to Advaita, it is the act of seeking! James Braha Stop all delays, all seeking and all striving. Put down your concepts, ideas and beliefs. For one instant be still and directly encounter the silent unknown core of your being. In that instant Freedom will embrace you and reveal the Awakening that you are. Adyashanti If all there is is Consciousness, if there is only Consciousness, then why or for what are you still seeking? If there is only Consciousness then right now you must be That and every thing else that appears in and as awareness must also be That, including any sense of separate self. Any appearance of mundane, ordinary existence can be no less of Consciousness than any appearance of unconditional love, wholeness, bliss, stillness, silence or anything else. Does anything really need to be transcended, found or let go of? Clarity By Nathan Gill STOP Striving! Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Wayne: The common question is, Is the guru necessary? My answer is that there are no requirements set forth by Consciousness. Consciousness can do anything It wants within the manifestation. Seeking is a phenomenal process, and that's what's crucial to understand-seeking is a phenomenal process. It happens within phenomenality; the various progressions that occur are in phenomenality; the impulse is in phenomenality; and the final event which is the dissolution of the seeking, actually the dissolution of personal doership, is in phenomenality. All that happens is in phenomenality. The result of the process of seeking is only notionally a result, because what it reveals is what is there all the time anyway. So there is really no progress in the absolute sense. Yet within the phenomenal structure of seeking and the seeker, the guru may play a role. In fact, in the lives of many seekers the guru is a figure central to the seeking. For those who have found a guru, who have found their true guru, there is no greater phenomenal experience. Wayne Liquorman, Advaita Fellowship -- student of Ramesh Balsekar The end of the search of the one who is seeking is the end of the seeker - it is the end of the experience of seeker-seeking-sought. This does not mean the end (or death) of the human mechanism (body, mind, personality), but rather the end of the identification as a separate me. Misc. It is essential to come to the point where you DECIDE that enough is enough. You decide that the seeking is over. You have already closed the door to problems and now you also stop seeking. All leaks are gone. You just live here-now, accepting life as it is... and WHAT a build-up of energy... OSHO Stop! In the name of Love The Supremes Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Striving and Seeking
Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to SEEKERS of truth and liberation everywhere. FFL Masthead Thats perhaps the problem. A band of merry seekers. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You will receive everything you need when you stop asking for what you do not need. The very search for pleasure is the cause of pain. If you are seeking what is the truth about yourself, then realize that what you are seeking you already are that, in totality. The false believe in a so called mind seemingly creates an individual seeker with a false sense of separation from pure Awareness, just realize that thoughts are not the real you or your ever-present unchanging Reality. The pure essence or pure presence that is prior to all thoughts, it is that undeniable sense of Presence that is translated with the thought I AM. That ordinary sense of presence of livingness/Awareness is our Natural State or True Nature. It is always present right Here right Now, always unchanging, always untouched by suffering, always untouched by thoughts, untouched by birth or death. It is effortless, just a little noticing of the you or Awareness, which is always present prior to thoughts. It is so obvious that we have overlooked it for so long, looking for something new outside ourselves, because it is no-thing, yet it is the very substratum of our existence, it is the very livingness itself, the core of our Being. Nisargadatta Maharaj If consciousness is who we already are, then seeking is the very opposite of what is necessary! If consciousness is who we already are, seeking of any kind obscures our true nature. The moment a spiritual search begins, one unwittingly plays a game of hide and seek where he or she simultaneously plays both parts! In Advaita, seeking is patently absurd because it implies a future time of finding. If all that exists is oneness, how can there be a past or future? Past and future are concepts in the mind, while the present momentright here, right nowis all that truly is. If there is an opposite to Advaita, it is the act of seeking! James Braha Stop all delays, all seeking and all striving. Put down your concepts, ideas and beliefs. For one instant be still and directly encounter the silent unknown core of your being. In that instant Freedom will embrace you and reveal the Awakening that you are. Adyashanti If all there is is Consciousness, if there is only Consciousness, then why or for what are you still seeking? If there is only Consciousness then right now you must be That and every thing else that appears in and as awareness must also be That, including any sense of separate self. Any appearance of mundane, ordinary existence can be no less of Consciousness than any appearance of unconditional love, wholeness, bliss, stillness, silence or anything else. Does anything really need to be transcended, found or let go of? Clarity By Nathan Gill STOP Striving! Sri Sri Ravi Shankar Wayne: The common question is, Is the guru necessary? My answer is that there are no requirements set forth by Consciousness. Consciousness can do anything It wants within the manifestation. Seeking is a phenomenal process, and that's what's crucial to understand-seeking is a phenomenal process. It happens within phenomenality; the various progressions that occur are in phenomenality; the impulse is in phenomenality; and the final event which is the dissolution of the seeking, actually the dissolution of personal doership, is in phenomenality. All that happens is in phenomenality. The result of the process of seeking is only notionally a result, because what it reveals is what is there all the time anyway. So there is really no progress in the absolute sense. Yet within the phenomenal structure of seeking and the seeker, the guru may play a role. In fact, in the lives of many seekers the guru is a figure central to the seeking. For those who have found a guru, who have found their true guru, there is no greater phenomenal experience. Wayne Liquorman, Advaita Fellowship -- student of Ramesh Balsekar The end of the search of the one who is seeking is the end of the seeker - it is the end of the experience of seeker-seeking-sought. This does not mean the end (or death) of the human mechanism (body, mind, personality), but rather the end of the identification as a separate me. Misc. It is essential to come to the point where you DECIDE that enough is enough. You decide that the seeking is over. You have already closed the door to problems and now you also stop seeking. All leaks are gone. You just live here-now, accepting life as it is... and WHAT a build-up of energy... OSHO Stop! In the name of Love The Supremes Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Does it follow then, in your view, that Krishna wrong to tell Arjuna to be at peace -- be without the three gunas? Should all soldiers be banned from meditation or prayer? Are you against all war? If there was a war that you supported, would you stop meditating because your peace would be counter productive to the war? Should one actively live the reality of everything they support? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/19/06 4:12:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Should the principal apply to all policies --for example, if you want to reduce marlaria in Africa, go fly there with some mosquito nets -- instead of promoting government policy to support such? (Note recent article on guy in Indonesia doing it -- changing the world one step at a time.) And if you support tax cuts, you cut your own taxes by the amount you believe they should be cut! Wow! What a country! Or if you support eliminating the Bush income and estate tax cuts, you should send in the higher taxes. As one poster appears to hold, one should actively live the reality of everything they support. How many people here are agaisnt the Bush tax cuts? See, almost everyone. :) So cough up those extra tax dollars people. Else you are not living an authentic life. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Should, should, should. Do you really know this to be true? The reality is, what is, is they are not. Isn't that so? How many other shoulds are you living in your life? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Does it follow then, in your view, that Krishna wrong to tell Arjuna to be at peace -- be without the three gunas? Should all soldiers be banned from meditation or prayer? Are you against all war? If there was a war that you supported, would you stop meditating because your peace would be counter productive to the war? Should one actively live the reality of everything they support? not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Should, should, should. Do you really know this to be true? The reality is, what is, is they are not. Isn't that so? How many other shoulds are you living in your life? Again, not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Again, pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). Not equivalent. We're short on recruits, and the troops in Iraq are exhausted. Even a single new recruit helps the war effort a little. I am sorry, I don't follow your logic. We're short on recruits so blocking troop trains and planes (or something more creative) will not slow the war effort? One single individual going to jail in protest is not going to impede the war effort in the slightest. Ghandi and MLK would disagree by example. And as far going to jail, I am surprised at your argument. A growing number of people going to jail, as in vietnam and civil rights movement would have an effect, IMO. A growing number starts with the commitment of individuals. But all of this skirts the issue. I asked, Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? If my example is weak, perhaps you can pose a better example of Should the reverse be true Those who are pro-war can be successful directly in proportion to their numbers if they enlist. I am not sure of this logic. Many predict troop drawdowns by summer -- during congressional campaigns. Those who are antiwar can be successful *only* if their numbers are massive (e.g., enough to elect an antiwar president). As in every congressional election, individuals, can make big a difference. A small group of dedicated individuals can create alarge impact. Massive not required. Though nice, and why not massive? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Should, should, should. Do you really know this to be true? The reality is, what is, is they are not. Isn't that so? How many other shoulds are you living in your life? Again, not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Again, pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. No, your supposition about me is not correct. Ah, so your shoulds end in contradictions and you do feel comfortable in facing it. Good. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Those pro-war shouldn't waste their time protesting. They should en masse head for the nearest recruiting station and enlist, in the infantry. Thats an interesting perspective. Do you feel that the underlying principal should apply to all wars, or just this one? Should the reverse be true: if you are against the war, should one block troop trains and planes, and be willing to go to jail to stop the war? (In vietnam era, many felt this was true). snip The reverse of war is peace. If we are against war, we should work continuously to create peace within ourselves. If we are for war, we should support war by actively waging it. Live the reality of peace, or live the reality of war. Does it follow then, in your view, that Krishna wrong to tell Arjuna to be at peace -- be without the three gunas? Should all soldiers be banned from meditation or prayer? Are you against all war? If there was a war that you supported, would you stop meditating because your peace would be counter productive to the war? Should one actively live the reality of everything they support? not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. Your suppostion is incorrect. Well clearly your shoulds end incontradiction, so that fact that you are comfortable in facing your contradictions is a good sign, positive for growth. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ Again, not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Again, pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. No, your supposition about me is not correct. Ah, so your shoulds end in contradictions and you do feel comfortable in facing it. Good. I am not facing any contradictions. Great! Now you are just facing a huge wall of denial. What a shame. And you were doing so good. You post empty platitudes, then punt when questions are asked. Thats understandable. But to deny your statements are empty and that hand waving makes them go away is sad. It says a lot about your type of awakening and enlightenment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: Well clearly your shoulds end incontradiction, so that fact that you are comfortable in facing your contradictions is a good sign, positive for growth. Nope. I agree. Denial is not a good sign, and is not positive for growth. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ Again, not interested in answering your questions. Sorry. Again, pehaps because your shoulds end in contradiction, and are uncomfrotable for you to face. No, your supposition about me is not correct. Ah, so your shoulds end in contradictions and you do feel comfortable in facing it. Good. I am not facing any contradictions. Great! Now you are just facing a huge wall of denial. What a shame. And you were doing so good. You post empty platitudes, then punt when questions are asked. Thats understandable. But to deny your statements are empty and that hand waving makes them go away is sad. It says a lot about your type of awakening and enlightenment. Ha-Ha-Ha! Kali's lap dog reappears! Greetings-- still enjoying the shadows I see! Please don't worry Goddess, no one enlightened or awakened will *ever* appear in your world!!! As is your nature, you will make sure of that, eh? Jim, I am afraid I am missing your point. You suggest a broad imperitive to a large group of people, refuse to provide any reasoning and substantiation for it, and you then claim that therefore no enlightened or awakened will *ever* appear in my world. I see. That logic is almost as good as your prior stating that the lady must be ganja-ji because I never saw or heard her before. The wisdom of the truly enlightened is unfathomable -- and totally fabulous! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Anti war Rally draws thousands?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: Well clearly your shoulds end incontradiction, so that fact that you are comfortable in facing your contradictions is a good sign, positive for growth. Nope. I agree. Denial is not a good sign, and is not positive for growth. Nope. Ok then. So its clear that you have no substantiation to provide for a broad imperitive you suggested. Good. So we can move on. This was such a minor point. Hardly worth all your handwaving to avoid addressing it. I am far more interested in topics such as I posted here. You are a big fan of seeking. Perhaps you can comment. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/91628 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At one point in one of Michael's diatribes at me for having questioned something he said, he declared that it was really Nature who was dumping on me; he was just passing on Nature's displeasure. Michael sitting on the right-hand side of God. So there's more to it than pointing out the shortcomings of any one particular individual. Too many people simply accept what they read and hear without applying critical thinking. How do you know? That presumes that silence is acquiesence. Not all feel or respond that way. An alternative view is that responders took the bait. It doesn't take much critical thinking to see that some posters respond to phantoms -- words that are not there, ideas not presented. Either via deviousness or deep clumsiness, they create ghost post worlds and respond to them. Whether one cares to reply to or comment on such silliness is another matter. snip There's also an underlying sense--which may or may not be accurate but does have some influence on how people see things--that if one doesn't rebut something someone else has said, it's because one doesn't *have* a rebuttal, that silence constitutes acquiescence, and that what the person has said must be accurate. Why would one ever presume that? Quite a different mind set than mine. In some if not many caess, silence is the most powerful statement. It implies the post is not worthy of a response. Its a snub. Perhaps rude, but less so than being pulled into the mire with someone who has no respect for facts, logic and sincere inquiry. I disagree very strongly here. Silence simply means silence, no agreement. How would you ever break the vicious circle of everybody wanting to have the last word? I reserve for myself the right to step out of an argument at any time without further comment, and expect that anbody else may do the same. I think you may be unusual in this regard. Ah, a forum made up of unsual people. What a treat. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference
Well, TM was officially banned in Indonesia in the mid 70's (during/just after Mario and Gabby Urtsin (sp), powerhouse german teachers, taught there). I assume it is still banned. And assume that it is banned in any number of other Islamic countries. I am guessing it would not be an easy sell in North Korea, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am familiar with the subpoenas, but being banned is a whole 'nother story. --- Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He can't go to the US or India, from what I understand, for various legal reasons. Maybe a couple of other countries. You mean you really hadn't heard about the subpoenas over here? Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, TM was officially banned in Indonesia in the mid 70's (during/just after Mario and Gabby Urtsin (sp), powerhouse german teachers, taught there). I assume it is still banned. And assume that it is banned in any number of other Islamic countries. I am guessing it would not be an easy sell in North Korea, etc. In searching to see if the ban is still in effect, I found nothing on TM, but did find this: Meditation: Growing popularity for stress relief, spirituality (Jakarta Post, Indonesia) In the last month, no less than three major spiritual leaders -- Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Amma and Dadi Janki -- have visited Jakarta and Singapore as part of their world tours. Known around the world for their powerful messages of peace and love, they attract hoards of followers and encourage hundreds to take up meditation and prayer regardless of religion. http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:P6yrB7AeOX4J:www.wildmind.org/newsletter/200406.html+indonesia++%22transcendental+meditation%22+hl=engl=usct=clnkcd=11client=firefox-a - C. Holland Taylor's mind seems to move faster than he can speak about the Libforall Foundation, the personal foreign policy initiative the former telcom executive founded to combat Islamic extremism in Indonesia. We engage with individuals through ideas. We implode radical Islam through ideas, Taylor said, describing his desire to link moderate Muslim leaders in Indonesia in a network of lighthouses within the Islamic world that will promote tolerance and freedom of thought and worship. A decade ago, Taylor was the head of USA Global Link, a telecommunications company that during the Wild West days of 1990s deregulation was a leader in the business of callback - selling cheap American dial tones to foreign callers. He was also a libertarian activist and a longtime practitioner of transcendental meditation. But Taylor, 49, left USA Global Link in 1998 and has spent much of the time since living in and studying Indonesia, the archipelago of 210 million people that stretches across the Indian Ocean between southeast Asia and Australia. He was on Indonesia's main island of Java on Sept. 11, 2001; the attacks that day helped convince Taylor that the world's most populous Muslim nation is a crucial front in the fight against Islamic extremism. So far, all the work done by Libforall (a contraction of the phrase liberty for all) from its headquarters in the North Carolina tobacco town of Winston-Salem has been in Indonesia. But Taylor hopes to soon expand his work to other Muslim nations like Egypt and this fall will begin raising money for the effort. So far, he has spent $250,000 of his own money. About 80 percent of Indonesians are Muslim. And, while a rash of terror attacks points to some inroads by religious radicals in recent years, most Muslims there practice a broadly tolerant faith strongly tinged with remnants of Hindu and animist rituals, which predate Islam in the archipelago. Taylor wants Libforall to quietly boost the profiles of moderate and liberal Islamic leaders who are committed to pluralistic, democratic values, including Indonesian pop star Ahmad Dhani and former President Abdurrahman Wahid, also known as Gus Dur. http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:Y_IZ6jybn2UJ:www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/12550102.htm+indonesia++%22transcendental+meditation%22+hl=engl=usct=clnkcd=12client=firefox-a Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Shrine in Varanasi, India, is considered holy by Hindus and Muslims alike
Braids of Faith at Baba's Temple: A Hindu-Muslim Idyll, NYTimes By SOMINI SENGUPTA Published: March 17, 2006 VARANASI, India They came to banish ghosts, find a cure for eczema, seek succor for a cheating husband or an unruly child. Their feet bare, their heads covered, the believers, both Hindu and Muslim, entered the shrine in droves, stopping only to kiss each stair. The Bahadur Shahid shrine in Varanasi, India, is considered holy by Hindus and Muslims alike. A Muslim man prays at a grave as a Hindu woman goes into a trance. That was the scene March 9 at the tomb of Hazarat Syed Baba Bahadur Shahid, a Muslim, two days after homemade bombs tore through a Hindu temple and a railway station here in Hinduism's holiest city, raising the specter of Hindu-Muslim violence. But such violence did not come to pass. Indeed, the scene at the Bahadur Shahid shrine served as a reminder of a fact often obscured by the spasms of ruthless sectarian violence that strike India: that after living cheek by jowl here for so many centuries, Hindus and Muslims often find themselves quietly braided together in worship as in daily life. Like a great many Sufi shrines across India, the Bahadur Shahid shrine is considered holy by Hindus and Muslims alike. The Bahadur Shahid shrine is not nearly as storied as others scattered across this country from Anantnag on the Indian side of Kashmir to Ajmer in the Rajasthani desert that draw Hindu, Muslim and Sikh pilgrims by the thousands every year. This is an unsung poor people's temple, in a dirty field where cows loll and the smell of sewage rises up as the day unfolds. Little is known about its origins, except that the man buried in the tomb was probably a soldier from the 11th century who came to conquer Varanasi, also known as Benares, and lost. It lies in the imagination of the folk, said Mohammad Toha, a professor of sociology at Benares Hindu University. It is part of folklore of Benares. It symbolizes Hindu-Muslim integration, the syncretic culture of Benares. The shrine is a symbol of a city in which Hindus and Muslims have lived in varying states of ease and unease for hundreds of years. Varanasi's famous Hindu temple, Kashi Viswanath, is pressed against its most famous mosque, called Gyanvapi, and guarded by heavily armed policemen. Varanasi has long been a mecca for mystics and iconoclasts, including the 15th-century poet Kabir, who rejected Hindu and Muslim strictures with equal vehemence. He was so revered that when he died, Hindus and Muslims sparred bitterly over his remains. According to legend, a deal was brokered to divide them up. But when his shroud was lifted, nothing was there. Hindus and Muslims are also tied together in more commercial affairs. That, some Benarasis surmise, perhaps best explains why the temple bombing of March 7, which the police attributed to an Islamist militant group with ties to Pakistan, did not incite further violence. Muslim weavers make the famous Benarasi silk saris for the weddings of wealthy Hindus. Muslim craftsmen also produce the crowns of Hindu temple deities. Muslims play concerts at Hindu temples. The city's most celebrated musician, the Muslim shehnai player Bismillah Khan, now approaching 90, is famous for having begun his mornings with devotional songs before the Hindu temple of Shiva. On a recent Thursday, as on every other, the Bahadur shrine brought together thousands of believers. Hindu women with red vermillion powder smeared on their heads jostled for a glimpse of the tomb along with Muslim women shielded in black burqas. Hindu men donned skullcaps in deference to Muslim custom. Offerings that are ordinarily seen at Hindu temples flowers, incense, sugar candy were presented before the tomb. It hardly mattered whether the believers invoked Hanuman or Allah the rest of the week. On Thursdays, they came to the tomb of Bahadur Shahid or Baba, as they called him and prayed for a miracle. On the stoop of the sanctum sanctorum sat a chronicler of troubles, Ramsaran Prasad, with a Muslim skullcap bearing the green, white and orange colors of the Indian flag. An unshaven man in a blue shirt came to explain his condition. There is trouble in mind and heart, the man told Mr. Prasad. Can't sleep. Every morning, I am tired. Always I am anxious. Mr. Prasad jotted it all down on a slip of white paper. The man's name was Ram Kumar, and he was a Hindu. He had come from 20 miles away. Mr. Prasad sold the man an amulet, containing verses from the Koran. That day's verse was chosen for its power to banish bad spirits. It cost 11 rupees, roughly 25 cents. Chandrakara Devi, also a Hindu, came next and squatted on the ground before Mr. Prasad. She told him of a tooth problem. Write it very carefully, she said, so I can get better quickly. But a toothache was not her only trouble. Her husband has a mistress, she whispered to Mr. Prasad. She gave both their names. All was recorded on the little slip of paper,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe its different with the generation I understand you belong to - that big spoiled, lard-assed congregation of whining no-gooders born just after WWII, whose sole accomplishment was to roll in the mud at Woodstock and being a nuisance ever after. Yes, quite so. The personal computer, the internet, wireless communications, the digital revolution, mapping the human genome, spectacular advances in medicine and pharmacuticals, tele-commuting, global communications, the creation of a middle classe in india and china larger than that in the US within a generation ... are sooo over rated. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Combining Several FFL Favorite Topics
Iraqi cleric wants gays killed in most severe way 03.16.2006 12:00 AM EST In the midst of sectarian violence that threatens to drag Iraq into civil war, the country's influential Shiite cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has issued a violent death order against gays and lesbians on his Web site, according to London-based LGBT human rights groups OutRage. Written in Arabic, the fatwa comes from a press conference with the powerful religious cleric, where he was asked about the judgment on sodomy and lesbianism. Forbidden, Sistani answered, according to OutRage, Punished, in fact, killed. The people involved should be killed in the worst, most severe way of killing. Considering Sistani's stature and influence within the Iraqi Shiite majority, OutRage member Ali Hili declared the cleric's statements extremely dangerous. Sistani's murderous homophobic incitement has given a green light to Shia Muslims to hunt and kill lesbians and gay men, said Hili. We hold Sistani personally responsible for the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Iraqis. He gives the killers theological sanction and encouragement. Sistani is a leading member and voice of the Shiite sect, which in Iraq has approximately twice as many followers as the Sunni sect. (The Advocate) http://www.logoonline.com/news/story.jhtml?id=1526230disableFeatureRedirect=truecontentTypeID=1087 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
