Re: [Felvtalk] Struvite crystals
Don't treat with c/d for very long, or let other cats eat that. I did that and one of the other cats ended up getting an oxalate bladder stone, caused by the c/d food. You need to give c/d initially, but can then feed S/O which keeps at the right ph and fights the opposite kind of crystals too. It's of course crappy food, ingredients-wise, which sucks for FeLV+ cats. Mine were FeLV+ too. There are some newer commercial brands that make foods comparable to prescription foods but with better ingredients, like Dave's. I have a reduced phosphorous and protein diet from Dave's for my cat with kidney failure. I am not sure but think they may make one for crystals too. You'd have to really look into it, though, and probably order it online. I think I once read that a raw diet is good for preventing crystals as well. Michelle -Original Message- From: Marcia To: felvtalk Sent: Tue, Apr 8, 2014 3:54 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Struvite crystals What I a everyone's opinion on the best food and best way to treat a cat that has continual problems with struvite crystals? Thanks Marcia Sent from my iPad ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit
the periodontal ones are specifically formulated and are rubbed onto the gums, not pilled. Michelle -Original Message- From: WarmFuzzy's To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 12:49 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit one of the best sources of omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA is fish oil. But, it is relatively difficult for the body to convert it because it comes in the form of triglyceride in a majority of the supplements. The body has to convert the complex triglyceride form of omega-3 fatty acids into ester form before they can be used by it. Therefore, when we take esterified fatty acids in the form of fish oil supplements for our Omega 3 requirements, the body has to do less work and achieves greater benefit from esterified fatty acids, which are more readily usable by our body. In order to maximize the benefits from them, you should look for Omega 3 esters that are made from purified and molecularly distilled fish oil. Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/2365386 On Mar 28, 2014, at 10:19 PM, Gloria B. Lane wrote: Thanks! I'm an Amazon.com fan too - On Mar 27, 2014, at 5:13 PM, Jennifer Lewis wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Periodontal-Health-Advance-Formula-Softgels/dp/B004BAY9ZW On Mar 27, 2014, at 3:10 PM, gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: Sounds good! The web shows it's esterified fatty acids, but it's hard to find an understandable definition. How/where can one get it Michelle? Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:46 PM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: Esterilized Fatty Acids for oral health seriously helped my FIV+ cat with horrible stomatitis. Was like a miracle. A veterinary dentist put him on it. Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Mar 26, 2014 10:20 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit Took Merls in today. Could not afford it but I was really worried about his mouth. He has nasty lesions but is still eating. He will be on the feline immune booster as well as a holistic concoction for his mouth. Recheck in 3 weeks. Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit
I got it from a veterinary dentist, but I believe I later ordered it online. Michelle -Original Message- From: Gblane To: felvtalk Sent: Thu, Mar 27, 2014 6:10 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit Sounds good! The web shows it's esterified fatty acids, but it's hard to find an understandable definition. How/where can one get it Michelle? Gloria Sent from my iPhone On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:46 PM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: Esterilized Fatty Acids for oral health seriously helped my FIV+ cat with horrible stomatitis. Was like a miracle. A veterinary dentist put him on it. Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Mar 26, 2014 10:20 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit Took Merls in today. Could not afford it but I was really worried about his mouth. He has nasty lesions but is still eating. He will be on the feline immune booster as well as a holistic concoction for his mouth. Recheck in 3 weeks. Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit
Esterilized Fatty Acids for oral health seriously helped my FIV+ cat with horrible stomatitis. Was like a miracle. A veterinary dentist put him on it. Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Mar 26, 2014 10:20 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] 2nd holistic vet visit Took Merls in today. Could not afford it but I was really worried about his mouth. He has nasty lesions but is still eating. He will be on the feline immune booster as well as a holistic concoction for his mouth. Recheck in 3 weeks. Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties
No, I meant posting it on your own Facebook page and emailing your friends and family the link instead of just posting it on cat groups. Have you done that? I have just found that this brings more money for these kind of things when you're asking people who know you but do not have a gaggle of animals themselves to support or run their own rescues. Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 15, 2014 11:12 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties Hi Michelle, They have a fundraising page on youcaring.com. Like I said I can't even get folks to share it. I can make them a Facebook page. I'm just very very discouraged. It has been shared 19 times in over a week. I don't fault anyone for not giving. Just explaining harsh realities. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2014, at 8:31 AM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: I don't think it's that people don't care. If you are mostly asking and sharing the link with other people on lists like this, it's that most of us are flat out and caring for many animals too. Do you have a Facebook page with a bunch of friends and family? If so, look at Go Fund Me online. A friend of mine could not afford to get an echocardiogram for her cat and set up a page on Go Fund Me and then sent a link with an explanation to all her friends and family and posted in on Facebook. She raised the whole thing in 2 days. People she had not seen in years donated. You are more likely to get donations from people who like animals but are not rescuers themselves (and therefore are not already spending all their money on animals). Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 15, 2014 8:39 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties The problem is with the cared for life. I flat cannot afford to care for them. I've tried to raise money for their care. I spent $1000 on vet bills last month. I have 3 left to test and vaccinate and I can't even do that. I can't even get people to share their fundraising link, let alone donate. No one cares. I had a special needs cat awhile back with a hereditarily heart condition. I was able to give her good care - visits to cardiologist, meds, trips to vet for constant ear infections and uri. That was when I was working. I'm on ssdi now and things are much different. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2014, at 3:47 AM, zoephotomo...@aol.com wrote: Oh no! I wouldn't PTS! I meant when the disease takes hold they pass in a couple of days. IF she was positive still I wouldn't prolong her life for my sake. I'd know it was time to let go after living a happy, loved, cared for, life. However, long it would be. I'm talking about interferon, and other medically induced procedures to keep her going at the end stages which some choose to do. I don't judge. It wasn't going to be my choice. I'm so sorry that you are hurting about this. I think they live free for who knows how much time happily. You love them and that's all any of our babies need. The time you have is all good then :) -Original Message- From: dlgegg To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 15, 2014 12:17 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties Don't euthanize! I had 2 positives. One died from complications early on in her life: raccoon bit her tail off, never did get past 6 lbs, but very healthy until last month of her life. She developed a uri and in a positive that or any infection is not good. The other one is still going at 8 years, healthy as can be. Who k nows, yours may live a long life also. My positive and negatives have always been mixed as long as the negatives are up to date on vaccinations. Kelley wrote: > > > > Ugh...we have 2 my stepdaughter brought in recently. I had the boy, approx one year, tested while he was being neutered. Outwardly he appears fine but has mouth lesions. Had the two girls, about 6 months old, tested. One tested pos and one neg. The pos girl had uri but bounced back quickly. > > We're trying to raise money for a holistic vet. Have y'all had better or worse luck with holistic vs. regular vets? I have the two positive kitties isolated, is it safe to let the negative girl in with the (vaccinated) negatives? I know some of y'all mix but I'm not ready for that. > > I have gotten so much conflicting information from various vets it is crazy. The low cost spay neuter clinic recommended immediate euthanization. Didn't even mention the ifa - I had to insist on it. Unfortunately it turned out pos as well. The holistic vet was much more positive and said she'd had quite a few turn neg. > > We're also raising funds for them. I spent over 1,000 in vet bills out of my own pocket last month and can't do that again. > > Also, I did ask about interferon. The holistic vet said they would gladly do it but it was an older treatment she had found expensive and of very little bene
Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties
I don't think it's that people don't care. If you are mostly asking and sharing the link with other people on lists like this, it's that most of us are flat out and caring for many animals too. Do you have a Facebook page with a bunch of friends and family? If so, look at Go Fund Me online. A friend of mine could not afford to get an echocardiogram for her cat and set up a page on Go Fund Me and then sent a link with an explanation to all her friends and family and posted in on Facebook. She raised the whole thing in 2 days. People she had not seen in years donated. You are more likely to get donations from people who like animals but are not rescuers themselves (and therefore are not already spending all their money on animals). Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 15, 2014 8:39 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties The problem is with the cared for life. I flat cannot afford to care for them. I've tried to raise money for their care. I spent $1000 on vet bills last month. I have 3 left to test and vaccinate and I can't even do that. I can't even get people to share their fundraising link, let alone donate. No one cares. I had a special needs cat awhile back with a hereditarily heart condition. I was able to give her good care - visits to cardiologist, meds, trips to vet for constant ear infections and uri. That was when I was working. I'm on ssdi now and things are much different. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2014, at 3:47 AM, zoephotomo...@aol.com wrote: Oh no! I wouldn't PTS! I meant when the disease takes hold they pass in a couple of days. IF she was positive still I wouldn't prolong her life for my sake. I'd know it was time to let go after living a happy, loved, cared for, life. However, long it would be. I'm talking about interferon, and other medically induced procedures to keep her going at the end stages which some choose to do. I don't judge. It wasn't going to be my choice. I'm so sorry that you are hurting about this. I think they live free for who knows how much time happily. You love them and that's all any of our babies need. The time you have is all good then :) -Original Message- From: dlgegg To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Mar 15, 2014 12:17 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] 2 new felv kitties Don't euthanize! I had 2 positives. One died from complications early on in her life: raccoon bit her tail off, never did get past 6 lbs, but very healthy until last month of her life. She developed a uri and in a positive that or any infection is not good. The other one is still going at 8 years, healthy as can be. Who k nows, yours may live a long life also. My positive and negatives have always been mixed as long as the negatives are up to date on vaccinations. Kelley wrote: > > > > Ugh...we have 2 my stepdaughter brought in recently. I had the boy, approx one year, tested while he was being neutered. Outwardly he appears fine but has mouth lesions. Had the two girls, about 6 months old, tested. One tested pos and one neg. The pos girl had uri but bounced back quickly. > > We're trying to raise money for a holistic vet. Have y'all had better or worse luck with holistic vs. regular vets? I have the two positive kitties isolated, is it safe to let the negative girl in with the (vaccinated) negatives? I know some of y'all mix but I'm not ready for that. > > I have gotten so much conflicting information from various vets it is crazy. The low cost spay neuter clinic recommended immediate euthanization. Didn't even mention the ifa - I had to insist on it. Unfortunately it turned out pos as well. The holistic vet was much more positive and said she'd had quite a few turn neg. > > We're also raising funds for them. I spent over 1,000 in vet bills out of my own pocket last month and can't do that again. > > Also, I did ask about interferon. The holistic vet said they would gladly do it but it was an older treatment she had found expensive and of very little benefit. > > We have appointments for both of them with the holistic vet next Wednesday. > > Below is their fundraising link - please give or share or both. I'm thinking of making a fundraising page for them also. > > > https://www.youcaring.com/nonprofits/help-merlin-and-coco/145925 > > > Sent from my iPhone > > Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _
Re: [Felvtalk] Holistic vs traditional vets for felv
Have you looked into Care Credit? It's very low or no interest and is only for vet and medical expenses. Some vets take it. Not that I think a visit to a holistic vet is necessarily necessary. People have had mixed experiences with them. I had 6 FeLV+ cats. One, who was also FIV+, lived to about 9 years old. Most of the others lived to about 5. One died at 18 months. You definitely need to take as good care of them as possible, get problems treated quickly, and try to keep their lives stress-free, but beyond that I think, to some extent, that it is a crap shoot.. Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Fri, Mar 14, 2014 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Holistic vs traditional vets for felv I'm actually going to have to cancel their appointment. Can't pay for it. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 14, 2014, at 8:48 PM, wrote: > > My FeLeuk girl sees an integrative vet, who practices both holistic and traditional medicine. She gets bicom treatments > from her, as well as various holistic medicines. She is stable > and even gaining weight on this regimen. I think this is > better care for her than she would get from a traditional > vet. > Just my experience... > > Chris C. > > -Original Message- From: Kelley Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 8:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Holistic vs traditional vets for felv > What are your thoughts on this? > > Sent from my iPhone > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite
FeLV does not kill cats, except in the (in my experience) rare situations where the virus itself interferes with the bone marrow's ability to produce red cells. I had 6 FeLV+ cats and none of them appeared to have died from that. FeLV reduces their immune system a lot so that they get and die of other things. Lymphoma is very common-- 4 of my 6 died of lymphoma. I did chemo with 2 of them and it helped for a couple months. They also get FIP more than other cats-- one of my remaining 1 died of wet FIP and the other appeared to have dry FIP. Not one died from anemia that was jut the FeLV in the bone marrow, though I know it does happen and appears to depend on the strain of FeLV. That said, they can also get whatever other cats can get, and are more prone to some of those treatable things, like infections. And to normal stuff-- my last surviving FeLV+ cat, who was also FIV+, lived to 9 years old. When she was about 7, she developed all the symptoms discussed here-- lethargy, inappetance, weight loss. I had just lost the second to last to FIP so my vet said she probably had that. But we did blood work, and what she had was diabetes that had been untreated long enough for her to get ketotic. She was hospitalized and fully recovered and got insulin shots the last 2 years of her life. When she was 8, she started losing weight again and it was hyperthyroidism, so she got treated for that too. The last time it was lymphoma, and she did ok with treatment for that for a while but not a long time, maybe 2-3 months, on steroids and a few chemo treatments. But if I had assumed that the lethargy and weight loss from diabetes were just the FeLV, she would have had 2 fewer years, and they were good years for her. So this is why I always push getting to the bottom of what it actually is that is causing the weight loss and lethargy, because there is a chance it is something completely treatable, and there is also a chance that it's something that can be controlled for a while with steroids or other drugs. That said, I go farther with treatment than most, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad, but something to keep in mind. Michelle -Original Message- From: Lorrie To: felvtalk Sent: Sun, Mar 2, 2014 7:41 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite On 03-01, trustinhi...@charter.net wrote: > Has anyone seen these signs before? Yes, this is very commom with FelV+ cats. I've had several who started eating less and less until they stopped eating completely were soon just skin and bones. At that point I had them euthanized. This was after several trips to a vet to try to help them feel better and live a little longer. I am so sorry you are experiencing this. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia
I very very strongly disagree with this advice to euthanize her because her PCV is at 21.7. There are some processes that can cause moderate anemia that can be addressed. If she is terminal, sometimes high doses of steroids can give them a very good quality of life for a few months. I had an FeLV+ cat who was literally running around and jumping even when his PCV was down to 6, because he was on high doses of steroids (on a shot of 1/2 dexamethasone and 1/2 depomedrol repeated as necessary, at first every week or two and at the end daily) and because his blood count went down slowly enough for him to adjust. Dying from anemia itself is not painful, if that is all that is wrong-- I just had a cat with hemolytic anemia who killed his own rbc's off very fast and as gone in 10 days and he died at home while we were still trying to save him, and he went very peacefully, anemia is just like very extreme exhaustion. I am not saying not to euthanize, but you will have plenty of time to make that decision when they get bad enough, it's not usually very fast and if it is it is not usually bad if it's really soley anemia and not something like cancer in their liver or something. If it's from lymphoma in the bone marrow, steroids in high doses will actually resolve the anemia for a while and control the lymphoma. Not for a long time, a few months at most, but it can be good time. If it's FIP-- my FeLV+ cat who was running around at PCV of 6 had dry FIP, it can take longer, it took 6 months with him. And now there are drugs that help with dry FIP sometimes. So I strongly recommend trying to figure out what is going on and at the very least trying high doses of steroids and see if it gives good quality of life for a while. Michelle -Original Message- From: Lorrie To: felvtalk Sent: Fri, Feb 28, 2014 9:31 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia Susan, I have had a lot of experience with FelV having a shelter with several FelV cats. I wish I could give you more encouraging news, but if she is at the point of eating litter she is desperately sick. With noregenerative anemia a blood transfusion will only buy her a very small amount of time. The virus is in her bone marrow will be unable to make more red blood cells. This lack of red blood will affect her heart, liver, kidneys and all internal organs as her lungs cannot get enough oxygenated blood to them. It will be a painful death as she deteriorates. I saw one of our FelV cats die like this and I will never allow it to happen again. My advice is to have her euthanized before she gets in this shape. I know it's a terribly difficult, decision, but better too soon that later. Most of the When kittens are born wth FelV they almost always die, as their immune systems are too immature to fight the virus. My last rescued litter of 4 FelV kittens died at 7 months 9 months 11 months and one made it to a year old. Older cats seem able to fight it off sometimes. Lorrie >From: Susan Loesch >To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:56 PM >Subject: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia >Hello, folks...I haven't had any Felv kitties in a while but now have a >positive who is close to a year old. She was just pulled from a local >shelter...she had begun eating litter and wasn't going to get any vet >care. She had been tested when she came to the shelter a few months ago >and they knew she was positive but no followup care or testing was >done. >We immediately took her to our vet for bloodwork...she is anemic but >not bad enough yet for a transfusion, and the anemia is definitely >non-regenerative. >We think that she was probably born positive...the group of cats she >came in with...30 or so...had a number of positive adults, none >altered. So her life will likely be quite short, and already being >anemic doesn't bode well. >SO...those of you who have dealt with a kitty in this situation...what >do you recommend to give her the best chance at the most quality time? >I have always found that info from this list was better than from vets >who deal only marginally with Felv. >Thank you! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Blood transfusion
There's a feline anemia yahoo group too, which may have more insights. Michelle -Original Message- From: Avaykn To: FeLVPositiveCats ; felvtalk Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2014 6:45 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Blood transfusion Hello, Took Kitty, 1 months old FeLV positive cat to the vet a few hours ago because she was not eating very much. She had lost a little weigh, her temperature was at 101, we did a blood panel and her PCV is at 21.7 and her red blood cell at 5.28. Her holistic vet is recommending a remedy to help and her regular vet is recommending a blood transfusion. What are your experiences with these routes ? __._,_.___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Blood transfusion
I have never heard a transfusion recommended at PCV of 21. That is considered moderate anemia, not severe, and transfusions are usually reserved for severe (under 15 or even 13). Part of the reason is that cats can have allergic or auto-immune reactions to transfusions so they normally only give them when needed to preserve life, and part of the reason is the limited availability of blood. I have gotten transfusions for 2 cats in the past, both when their PCV was below 13. In both cases they helped for a very short time. In the first case, it helped keep a cat alive (who was FeLV+) long enough for chemo to kick in at which point his count went up for a while until the chemo stopped working. The second cat was Bear, who I lost recently, who was FIV+ and had hemolytic anemia, where he was killing off his red blood cells. He got 2 transfusions on one day and another a 5 days later. In both cases the transfusions raised his PCV a little for a couple days and then he started killing of the transfused blood too, and he died 3 days after the last transfusion. If the anemia is from something less serious or slower moving, a transfusion can last longer. But because of the associated risks, vets normally wait longer to do it. At 21.7, her anemia could be from some systemic issue like an infection or cancer. They get anemia when they are very sick from something else and if that thing is resolved the anemia resolves. So it may not get worse if you can solve whatever else is going on or treat it at least temporarily. Or she could have nonregenerative anemia and it will slowly get worse. But in that case she should adjust to the lower count after a few day and not be floored by it until it gets much lower. So I think I would go another route other than transfusion at first, and see if you can determine and treat whatever else is going on. 101 is not a fever for a cat, it's in the middle of normal, so she is not feverish. What is her white blood cell count? But if you do not do the transfusion, I would get her blood count rechecked soon to make sure it is not going down very fast, in which case you may need to soon. Is she really only 4 weeks old? You said 1 months, so I don't know if the 1 is the typo or the plural months. If she is 4 weeks old, it's possible that this changes things and vets would transfuse faster. But I also never heard of a kitten that young getting a transfusion. Michelle -Original Message- From: Avaykn To: FeLVPositiveCats ; felvtalk Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2014 6:45 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Blood transfusion Hello, Took Kitty, 1 months old FeLV positive cat to the vet a few hours ago because she was not eating very much. She had lost a little weigh, her temperature was at 101, we did a blood panel and her PCV is at 21.7 and her red blood cell at 5.28. Her holistic vet is recommending a remedy to help and her regular vet is recommending a blood transfusion. What are your experiences with these routes ? __._,_.___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite
Eating little bits is not the same as normal appetite. If you've noticed a difference, it's because something is likely wrong. -Original Message- From: Maryam Ulomi To: felvtalk Cc: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Feb 26, 2014 9:52 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite She is eating dry food, which I never give her but as a treat when I brush her teeth. Sent from my iPad On Feb 26, 2014, at 20:31, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: Yes, I'd go right away for an exam and blood work. Appetite los is often the first sign of all the problems they get, from stomatitis to URI's to anemia to cancer. Michelle -Original Message- From: KG BarnCats To: felvtalk Cc: FeLVPositiveCats Sent: Wed, Feb 26, 2014 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite tI recommend that you take Kitty to the vet right away and find out if there is a reason for inappetance, such as dental/gum irritation. That is really common in FELV or FIV cats. Also, get some appetite stimulant pills such as cyproheptadine or mirtazipine (also fights nausea). The longer you wait while the cat eats poorly, the weaker the cat gets. Nothing good comes of that. Good luck. On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Maryam Ulomi wrote: Hello everyone, Kitty, our little 19 months old FeLV positive cat, has for the past three days been eating less than usual. I have tried all sort of new canned foods but she eats a little bit and then walks away. She will eat maybe 1/3 of what she would normally eat in one meal then walk away sometimes she comes back to it but mostly she will want something else. If I give it to her in a new bowl she might it or not. She has not stopped eating all together but I'm concerned that she is not eating as much as previously. She plays, poops and pees, does not hide, is otherwise her usual adorable self. Has anyone seen these signs before? I don't know if i should take her to the vet or wait. Thanks, Malls and Kitty. Sent from my iPad ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite
Yes, I'd go right away for an exam and blood work. Appetite los is often the first sign of all the problems they get, from stomatitis to URI's to anemia to cancer. Michelle -Original Message- From: KG BarnCats To: felvtalk Cc: FeLVPositiveCats Sent: Wed, Feb 26, 2014 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Too little appetite tI recommend that you take Kitty to the vet right away and find out if there is a reason for inappetance, such as dental/gum irritation. That is really common in FELV or FIV cats. Also, get some appetite stimulant pills such as cyproheptadine or mirtazipine (also fights nausea). The longer you wait while the cat eats poorly, the weaker the cat gets. Nothing good comes of that. Good luck. On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Maryam Ulomi wrote: Hello everyone, Kitty, our little 19 months old FeLV positive cat, has for the past three days been eating less than usual. I have tried all sort of new canned foods but she eats a little bit and then walks away. She will eat maybe 1/3 of what she would normally eat in one meal then walk away sometimes she comes back to it but mostly she will want something else. If I give it to her in a new bowl she might it or not. She has not stopped eating all together but I'm concerned that she is not eating as much as previously. She plays, poops and pees, does not hide, is otherwise her usual adorable self. Has anyone seen these signs before? I don't know if i should take her to the vet or wait. Thanks, Malls and Kitty. Sent from my iPad ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia
Does Epogen help if it's not kidney elated? LTCI says it helps if the anemia is severe. I have one dose of it I can send you to get started if you decide to go that route but it would only help if you get more. I aw it help wit boosting wbc. Anyone on the lit haf it help with rbc? Pet Tinic If it's nonregenerative due to lymphoma i the bone marrow, dexamethasone or prednisone will help for a while. Michelle -Original Message- From: Susan Loesch To: felvtalk Sent: Tue, Feb 25, 2014 12:56 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] newly diagnosed woth non-regenerative anemia Hello, folks...I haven't had any Felv kitties in a while but now have a positive who is close to a year old. She was just pulled from a local shelter...she had begun eating litter and wasn't going to get any vet care. She had been tested when she came to the shelter a few months ago and they knew she was positive but no followup care or testing was done. We immediately took her to our vet for bloodwork...she is anemic but not bad enough yet for a transfusion, and the anemia is definitely non-regenerative. We think that she was probably born positive...the group of cats she came in with...30 or so...had a number of positive adults, none altered. So her life will likely be quite short, and already being anemic doesn't bode well. SO...those of you who have dealt with a kitty in this situation...what do you recommend to give her the best chance at the most quality time? I have always found that info from this list was better than from vets who deal only marginally with Felv. Thank you! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience?
I agree, was just trying to clarify the differences for her, as they are not for the same things. Sorry if it sounded different. Michelle -Original Message- From: Margo To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 9:16 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hi Michelle, I certainly agree that a diagnosis is needed, and without that you're shooting in the dark. Didn't sound like her current Vet was on board for that. And yes, IR is just touted as a general Immune system booster, not targeted at red or white cells. I was simply giving my experience, or rather, lack there-of. I'm choosing the IR as my "rescue" protocol, at least for now. Margo -Original Message- From: lernermiche...@aol.com Sent: Feb 8, 2014 8:24 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? I have also used immunoregulin successfully, but for bad upper respiratory infections, for which it worked amazingly. It does not, to my knowledge, stimulate white or red blood cell production, just stimulates general immune response (I think B cells? or T cells?) So I think I would choose which one to use based on what the problem actually is, from blood work etc. Michelle -Original Message- From: Margo To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 7:21 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hi Daniella, I'm sorry to hear that your FurKid is declining. What is she currently getting, treatment wise? I have mine on interferon and DMG. For when they start to show symptoms again, I have ImmunoRegulin at my Vets, It's been there almost a year. http://www.felineleukemia.org/hope.html I have been in contact with Dr. Thomas (she's on another list I frequent) and she feels it can be effective. I can't recall why I didn't choose to try LTCI, but I know there was a reason. Probably that I couldn't find any real evidence that it helped. Although the link on the website says it's only available thru a Vet, that's not true. http://www.revivalanimal.com/ImmunoRegulin-EqStim.html And it's about half the price. But, I keep it at the Vet's, because it has to be given IV, and that's tough to do by yourself. You might want to check into a second opinion, maybe find a Vet that is willing to be more proactive. Most Vet's don't seem to know much about FeLV, and often advise euthanasia. It may be that they've found caregivers unwilling to treat. I've found that having a Vet who is at least willing to try things is a game-changer. Mine has allowed me to keep certain antibiotics and an antiviral on hand to deal with possible problems quickly, before they can get a hold. Wishing you both the best, Margo .Original Message- From: Daniella Leifer Sent: Feb 7, 2014 6:56 PM To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hello, I'm considering doing this somewhat new lymphocyte t-cell immune modulator, LTCI, treatment for my FeLV kitty who's recently taken a turn for the worse - she's lethargic, decreased appetite, etc. I'm assuming that if I do nothing, she'll die in a few days or weeks (I'm sad because she seemed fine like a week ago, and I only noticed this change in her behavior about 2 days ago). I brought her to a vet today who basically said to give her palliative care until she dies, but then I did some google searching when I got home and found info about LTCI (I didn't even know it existed until literally this afternoon). I'd love to hear about people's experiences with it, and whether you've had success? My kitty was a stray and I'm 99% sure she got it when she was a kitten, or was maybe even born with it. I am not going to do intensive treatments like feeding tubes and stuff like that, that seems too traumatic and I'd rather she have a peaceful exit. But if she can be helped by one little shot per month, that seems do-able. thank you, Daniella ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience?
I have also used immunoregulin successfully, but for bad upper respiratory infections, for which it worked amazingly. It does not, to my knowledge, stimulate white or red blood cell production, just stimulates general immune response (I think B cells? or T cells?) So I think I would choose which one to use based on what the problem actually is, from blood work etc. Michelle -Original Message- From: Margo To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 7:21 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hi Daniella, I'm sorry to hear that your FurKid is declining. What is she currently getting, treatment wise? I have mine on interferon and DMG. For when they start to show symptoms again, I have ImmunoRegulin at my Vets, It's been there almost a year. http://www.felineleukemia.org/hope.html I have been in contact with Dr. Thomas (she's on another list I frequent) and she feels it can be effective. I can't recall why I didn't choose to try LTCI, but I know there was a reason. Probably that I couldn't find any real evidence that it helped. Although the link on the website says it's only available thru a Vet, that's not true. http://www.revivalanimal.com/ImmunoRegulin-EqStim.html And it's about half the price. But, I keep it at the Vet's, because it has to be given IV, and that's tough to do by yourself. You might want to check into a second opinion, maybe find a Vet that is willing to be more proactive. Most Vet's don't seem to know much about FeLV, and often advise euthanasia. It may be that they've found caregivers unwilling to treat. I've found that having a Vet who is at least willing to try things is a game-changer. Mine has allowed me to keep certain antibiotics and an antiviral on hand to deal with possible problems quickly, before they can get a hold. Wishing you both the best, Margo .Original Message- From: Daniella Leifer Sent: Feb 7, 2014 6:56 PM To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Subject: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hello, I'm considering doing this somewhat new lymphocyte t-cell immune modulator, LTCI, treatment for my FeLV kitty who's recently taken a turn for the worse - she's lethargic, decreased appetite, etc. I'm assuming that if I do nothing, she'll die in a few days or weeks (I'm sad because she seemed fine like a week ago, and I only noticed this change in her behavior about 2 days ago). I brought her to a vet today who basically said to give her palliative care until she dies, but then I did some google searching when I got home and found info about LTCI (I didn't even know it existed until literally this afternoon). I'd love to hear about people's experiences with it, and whether you've had success? My kitty was a stray and I'm 99% sure she got it when she was a kitten, or was maybe even born with it. I am not going to do intensive treatments like feeding tubes and stuff like that, that seems too traumatic and I'd rather she have a peaceful exit. But if she can be helped by one little shot per month, that seems do-able. thank you, Daniella ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience?
Just to drive my point home, my double positive (FeLV+ and FIV+) cat Patches got very lethargic and sick and my local vet, who had just seen one of my other positive cats die of FIP, told me it was probably FIP. But he did blood work and she turned out to be diabetic and was ketotic from it not being treated. I took her to an internist at a hospital and she was hospitalized for 3 days on fluids and insulin, and they got her regulated and back to normal. We tested her urine and gave her a low dose of insulin twice/day for a long time, a couple years I think. She then got hyperthyroidism and needed medication for that too. But she was really fat and happy and energetic. She then eventually got lymphoma, but even then we caught it early and she responded really well to chemo for a while and was really happy still. But then she stopped responding to the chemo and it was the lymphoma that killed her. But she was 9 years old at that point and would have died a lot earlier if we had assumed it was her FeLV every time she got sick and not looked for the actual problem and treated it. Of my other 5 positives, 3 got lymphoma and the other 2 got FIP. That is what killed them. Not the FeLV, though the FeLV is probably why they got lymphoma and FIP. Michelle -Original Message- From: lernermichelle To: felvtalk Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 9:26 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Daniella, I have used LTCI, but it's hard to answer your question because you do not say what your cat has been diagnosed with, and honestly it sounds like she has not been diagnosed with anything but FeLV, which is not what usually actually makes them sick. FeLV is just a very suppressed immune system. It can lead to many different diseases, from lymphoma to infections to primary anemia. There are treatments available for all of these things (though when effective usually only for a limited time, unless it's a basic infection that can be cured with antibiotics). But it really depends on getting an actual diagnosis, which means blood work and possibly x-rays or ultrasound depending on the blood work. If your vet is just saying it's the FeLV, I would take her to a different vet, preferably an internist, and find out what is actually wrong. I used LTCI successfully for my FIV+ cat when he had very low white blood cell counts. I gave it once/week for a month and then less frequently and it raised his white blood cell count quite a bit. It apparently can also help primary anemia (red blood cell count low) when it is severe. But it is not going to help cancer (steroids and/or chemo might for a few months though). It might help fight an infection, by raising the white blood cell production, but antibiotics would also be necessary. It is understandable if you do not want to do anything very invasive or expensive if it will not give her more time. But treating an infection is worthwhile if that is what she has. If she has lymphoma, just putting her on high dose of prednisone or dexamethasone, which are steroids, is cheap and does not make them feel bad, it makes them feel good, and can give them weeks or months of feeling relatively ok. If it's dry FIP, there are new medications that have cured some cats (though I don't know if FeLV+), and high doses of steroids can help with quality of life for a while. But you don't want to give steroids if it's an infection. So if the problem is low white blood cell counts and an infection, I would recommend LTCI. Also I would try it if red blood cell anemia is severe and appears to come from the bone marrow shutting down from the virus rather than from cancer or an auto-immune reaction to something. But I would find out what the problem actually is first, and go from there. At least do blood work. Michelle -Original Message- From: Daniella Leifer To: felvtalk Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 6:57 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hello, I'm considering doing this somewhat new lymphocyte t-cell immune modulator, LTCI, treatment for my FeLV kitty who's recently taken a turn for the worse - she's lethargic, decreased appetite, etc. I'm assuming that if I do nothing, she'll die in a few days or weeks (I'm sad because she seemed fine like a week ago, and I only noticed this change in her behavior about 2 days ago). I brought her to a vet today who basically said to give her palliative care until she dies, but then I did some google searching when I got home and found info about LTCI (I didn't even know it existed until literally this afternoon). I'd love to hear about people's experiences with it, and whether you've had success? My kitty was a stray and I'm 99% sure she got it when she was a kitten, or was maybe even born with it. I am not going to do intensive treatments like feeding tubes and stuff lik
Re: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience?
Daniella, I have used LTCI, but it's hard to answer your question because you do not say what your cat has been diagnosed with, and honestly it sounds like she has not been diagnosed with anything but FeLV, which is not what usually actually makes them sick. FeLV is just a very suppressed immune system. It can lead to many different diseases, from lymphoma to infections to primary anemia. There are treatments available for all of these things (though when effective usually only for a limited time, unless it's a basic infection that can be cured with antibiotics). But it really depends on getting an actual diagnosis, which means blood work and possibly x-rays or ultrasound depending on the blood work. If your vet is just saying it's the FeLV, I would take her to a different vet, preferably an internist, and find out what is actually wrong. I used LTCI successfully for my FIV+ cat when he had very low white blood cell counts. I gave it once/week for a month and then less frequently and it raised his white blood cell count quite a bit. It apparently can also help primary anemia (red blood cell count low) when it is severe. But it is not going to help cancer (steroids and/or chemo might for a few months though). It might help fight an infection, by raising the white blood cell production, but antibiotics would also be necessary. It is understandable if you do not want to do anything very invasive or expensive if it will not give her more time. But treating an infection is worthwhile if that is what she has. If she has lymphoma, just putting her on high dose of prednisone or dexamethasone, which are steroids, is cheap and does not make them feel bad, it makes them feel good, and can give them weeks or months of feeling relatively ok. If it's dry FIP, there are new medications that have cured some cats (though I don't know if FeLV+), and high doses of steroids can help with quality of life for a while. But you don't want to give steroids if it's an infection. So if the problem is low white blood cell counts and an infection, I would recommend LTCI. Also I would try it if red blood cell anemia is severe and appears to come from the bone marrow shutting down from the virus rather than from cancer or an auto-immune reaction to something. But I would find out what the problem actually is first, and go from there. At least do blood work. Michelle -Original Message- From: Daniella Leifer To: felvtalk Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 6:57 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] LTCI treatment experience? Hello, I'm considering doing this somewhat new lymphocyte t-cell immune modulator, LTCI, treatment for my FeLV kitty who's recently taken a turn for the worse - she's lethargic, decreased appetite, etc. I'm assuming that if I do nothing, she'll die in a few days or weeks (I'm sad because she seemed fine like a week ago, and I only noticed this change in her behavior about 2 days ago). I brought her to a vet today who basically said to give her palliative care until she dies, but then I did some google searching when I got home and found info about LTCI (I didn't even know it existed until literally this afternoon). I'd love to hear about people's experiences with it, and whether you've had success? My kitty was a stray and I'm 99% sure she got it when she was a kitten, or was maybe even born with it. I am not going to do intensive treatments like feeding tubes and stuff like that, that seems too traumatic and I'd rather she have a peaceful exit. But if she can be helped by one little shot per month, that seems do-able. thank you, Daniella ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] urgent question on FELV tests/vax
In terms of testing, you can buy bulk tests, I think my group paid about $12/test when we did, but we had to buy $400 worth. I think you need to take blood from a vein. We never bought our own again. Since they live together, you can ask the vet to do batch tests. Our vet does that with kittens from the same litter. You can see if your vet will do adults living together. They mix the blood of up to 3 or 4 together and then do a test with that. If it's negative then they are all negative. If it's positive, you need to then test those cats individually to see whose blood the antibodies came from. There is some controversy over whether this is something vets should be doing. But I think in your case it might be a good option. For vaccinations, do you mean FVRCP (distemper, rhino, calici) which is what you wrote, or do you mean FeLV vax? Because the answer is different depending which you meant. Michelle -Original Message- From: KG BarnCats To: felvtalk Sent: Sat, Jan 11, 2014 10:27 am Subject: [Felvtalk] urgent question on FELV tests/vax Seeking advice and best places to shop. In addition to a small phydically isolated of FELV+ cats, I care for a large colony of cats. These are all fixed, all previously tested negative and mostly adult. They range from friendly to full feral. A few were FELV vaccinated a couple years back. One previously negative diabetic cat has fallen ill and just re-tested positive, after a host of other tests and treatments over the last two months. I don't have the money to test and vax everyone at the vet. So I am looking for the most cost efficient way to test and vax. Is it possible to buy snap tests and do them myself, using a blood drop from the ear? (similar to getting blood for blood glucose testing). Is special equipment required to run the test? Best source for bulk test kits? Where are the cheapest vaccines? I have seen 10 dose FELV only vials on sale for $69 at California Pet but if anyone knows a better source for single doses or multi dose vials, I'd appreciate it. Is there any data/studies to indicate that a single dose conveys protection for cats over 6 more? I recall reading on cat info.org that FVRCP single dose can convey longterm immunity for cats over 4 months. My understanding is that multiple doses are needed because of potential maternal derived immunity interference with vaccines, at least for FVRCP. Thanks in advance. Kg ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Bear's pcv dropping again
Thank you all for your prayers. Bear actually stabilized for 2 days and things were looking up, they were talking about sending him home today, but now his pcv is dropping again and he's back to the level where they normally give a transfusion. His body seems to have adapted to lower oxygen levels so they are waiting because this might actually be a reaction to the last transfusions. The strong medication he's on (cyclosporine) can take 5-7 days to work, and he's only gotten it 3 days so far, so the hope is to keep him going until that can kick in. But there is no guarantee it will work even when it does. Please keep him in your prayers/thoughts. Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear
Thanks to everyone for prayers. He needed 2 transfusions last night to raise his PCV enough-- the first one raised it only from 10 to 12 and he was still breathing labored, and the second raised it to 19. I am waiting to hear from the vet now regarding his pcv from this morning, 4 hours after the second transfusion, to learn how fast he is killing it off. Margo, his kidneys are not very compromised (they are a little from lack of oxygen from the severe anemia yesterday) so I don't think the erytropoetin is the problem. The main problem is he is killing the red blood cells off and doing it so quickly that it's impossible to tell at this point if he is able to regenerate new ones-- it looks like not but that happens if they kill them off at the bone marrow level, as they never make it out into the blood stream to show up on a test, so we need to stop the hemolysis to have any hope of figuring that out and helping him regenerate. It can apparently take up to 7 days to be able to tell. The crisis is in the killing off, and if we do not stop that nothing will help him. I am thinking that we added fuel to the fire and made this worse, me and my spouse, as we gave him an LTCI shot on Sunday in the hope it would help him regenerate red blood cells as it's supposed to help with severe red cell anemia. But LTCI works by stimulating the very thing that the immunosuppressives are now trying to stop, so I think we really screwed up by giving him that and probably accelerated the hemolysis. Kicking myself for that so much. I had asked the vet about giving it to him and she said she wouldn't just in case it had caused the original hemolysis, but she added that she really did not think it did and was being cautious, so when the anemia did not seem to be resolving and it looked like he wasn't regenerating my husband and I figured it was unlikely to hurt and gave it to him. But I think the problem is not causing the hemolysis initially, but that it may have accelerated it by stimulating the bone marrow that was already overstimulated in the wrong way. Ugh, a million times ugh. Anyway, waiting with baited breath to see if the treatments are working. If they do, he has a lot of other issues to deal with, so I think his long-term chances are very slim. But we just couldn't not treat, especially if this was caused by some kind of medication (they think it may have been his thyroid meds) and has a chance of being reversed. So my Christmas present this morning was a PCV of 19. Hopefully it was not just for Christmas morning and has not disappeared already. Thank you all for your prayers at this busy time of year, Michelle -Original Message- From: Margo To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Dec 25, 2013 6:21 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear Michelle, I'm so sorry. I will be thinking of Bear with all the good energies I can muster. Has erythropoietin (Epogen) been considered? It isn't always appropriate, but can sometimes be a stop-gap until the actual treatment works. Crossing fingers, toes paws and whiskers for a positive turn=around. All the best, Margo -Original Message- From: lernermiche...@aol.com Sent: Dec 24, 2013 7:15 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear Turns out it does not look like FIP, looks like hemolytic anemia, where he is killing off his own red blood cells, and the vet simply did not keep him on a high enough dose of immune-suppressants so he crashed again. Now he is really bad. I don't know what his chances are at this point, but I do not think they are good, though the vets say he can turn around. He just got a transfusion and they are starting him on cyclosporine, a stronger immune suppressant. And doxycycline. Please send him prayers. He is FIV+, not FeLV+, though he has had as many issues as my FeLV cats did. I got back on this list looking for feline interferon, which I don't need, but one thing I know this list is good for is prayers. Please pray it's a good Christmas for Bear and he responds well to the transfusion and the cyclosporine. thank you, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear
Thanks, Kelly. I am disheartened to learn of your loss. Did thy try cyclosporine with your cat? Michelle -Original Message- From: Kelley To: felvtalk Sent: Tue, Dec 24, 2013 8:09 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear So sorry. I lost one to AIHA. It is apparently quite serious even without the vet messing up. Will send white light. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:15 PM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: Turns out it does not look like FIP, looks like hemolytic anemia, where he is killing off his own red blood cells, and the vet simply did not keep him on a high enough dose of immune-suppressants so he crashed again. Now he is really bad. I don't know what his chances are at this point, but I do not think they are good, though the vets say he can turn around. He just got a transfusion and they are starting him on cyclosporine, a stronger immune suppressant. And doxycycline. Please send him prayers. He is FIV+, not FeLV+, though he has had as many issues as my FeLV cats did. I got back on this list looking for feline interferon, which I don't need, but one thing I know this list is good for is prayers. Please pray it's a good Christmas for Bear and he responds well to the transfusion and the cyclosporine. thank you, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Prayers needed for Bear
Turns out it does not look like FIP, looks like hemolytic anemia, where he is killing off his own red blood cells, and the vet simply did not keep him on a high enough dose of immune-suppressants so he crashed again. Now he is really bad. I don't know what his chances are at this point, but I do not think they are good, though the vets say he can turn around. He just got a transfusion and they are starting him on cyclosporine, a stronger immune suppressant. And doxycycline. Please send him prayers. He is FIV+, not FeLV+, though he has had as many issues as my FeLV cats did. I got back on this list looking for feline interferon, which I don't need, but one thing I know this list is good for is prayers. Please pray it's a good Christmas for Bear and he responds well to the transfusion and the cyclosporine. thank you, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Need feline interferon omega very quickly
I know-- she and I exchanged feline interferon several times-- but I don't have her contact info anymore. Can anyone email it to me? thanks, Michelle -Original Message- From: Heather To: felvtalk Cc: felvtalk Sent: Mon, Dec 23, 2013 9:58 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Need feline interferon omega very quickly Hideyo Yamomoto (unsure on last name/spelling) who used to be on this list as well as others, might be a good person to ask about this. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2013, at 9:17 PM, lernermiche...@aol.com wrote: Hi, My name is Michelle and I used to be a regular on this list for several years when I had 6 FeLV+ cats, none of whom, unfortunately, are still with me. At the time, several of us were ordering feline interferon omega and would send it to each other when needed in an emergency. I have an FIV+ cat now who appears to have non-effusive FIP (not definite but many signs pointing there). The only hope of helping that is feline interferon omega given in combination with steroids, and given quickly. I will not be able to get it quickly. Does anyone have it who might be willing to sell me a few doses to get him started while I try to get it? Or to do an exchange like we used to do, sending me a few doses while I order and then I send it back? Michelle L. NJ (used to be MA) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Need feline interferon omega very quickly
Hi, My name is Michelle and I used to be a regular on this list for several years when I had 6 FeLV+ cats, none of whom, unfortunately, are still with me. At the time, several of us were ordering feline interferon omega and would send it to each other when needed in an emergency. I have an FIV+ cat now who appears to have non-effusive FIP (not definite but many signs pointing there). The only hope of helping that is feline interferon omega given in combination with steroids, and given quickly. I will not be able to get it quickly. Does anyone have it who might be willing to sell me a few doses to get him started while I try to get it? Or to do an exchange like we used to do, sending me a few doses while I order and then I send it back? Michelle L. NJ (used to be MA) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] PJ needs a home
My rescue trapped PJ, who is not feral but is timid, and he needs a home. He is orange and double positive and 4-5 years old. He is in NJ. Best Friends has, miraculously, agreed to take him, and if we cannot find him a home we will send him there within the month. However, he will have to endure either being flown by cargo and then driven several hours, or being driven 3-5 days via ground transport with many different drivers. It's across the country. This is hard enough for a negative cat, but I am afraid that level of stress for an already timid cat will crash him given his status. Right now, though, it is our only option. So I am writing the list one more time in case there is someone out there within a reasonable distance of NJ who would be interested in adopting him. He seems fine with other cats. I do not think he will ever be a lap cat, but he might. He does love being brushed-- will get up and turn around to get us to brush his other side, lol. But he stays in a corner and is scared. I can send a picture to anyone interested. thanks, Michelle L. Flanders, NJ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] double positive boy
I'm in NJ. He tested positive for FeLV on the IFA as well, just got it back today, so he is persistently infected. Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sweet double pos orange tabby boy needs a home
I can't put him in with the other cats. I wouldn't do it with my own cats, one of whom is FIV+ and thus especially vulnerable to contracting FeLV, because the vaccination is not 100% effective and having seen the ravages of FeLV I would never risk that. But it's not up to me in our foster homes, anyway. I can't make other people put FeLV+ cats with their own negative cats, and we can't expose cats we are saying tested negative to FeLV and then adopt them out when they may be incubating it. Plus we cannot afford to give our foster cats 2 FeLV shots on top of everything else we do; it would add another $40/cat in vet costs even with the discount we get. thanks, though, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Sweet double pos orange tabby boy needs a home
Hello, all! Some of you may remember me from years ago when I had "fostered" and then adopted 6 FeLV+ cats and then painfully lost them one by one over a few years. I moved from MA to NJ 8 years ago, and 4 years ago I started a TNR and rescue program in my town. Having gotten our town under control and to no kill status, we are brancing out a bit to the border towns. We just TNR'd a mother cat and removed the kittens, who were 8 weeks old ,to tame, and the father, who, once trapped, could be handled. The kittens are fine, the mom is fine and back out, but the father tested double positive for FIV/FeLV. We do not really have anywhere to put him. He is in a fosterer's guest room right now but she is only allowing that fora few weeks. We have FIV+ cats in our foster homes (I have one in mine), but no FeLV or space for them as we are just a few volunteers with foster space in our homes and handle 100+ cats/year. He's a really sweet guy, a bit timid/shy but loves to be pet and brushed. The vet said he's 4-5 years old. We are still just referring to him as "papa cat" and for some reason haven't decided on a name yet. I realize no one really comes to this list looking to take on more positive cats. But if anyone has space for him, it would be wonderful. The FIV is not so much of an issue for cats with FeLV, as it is a less bad disease. Out of my 6 FeLV+ cats, only one had FIV too and it did not seem to spread (it only spreads through bite wounds) and she actually outlived all the others who only had FeLV (Patches, if anyone remembers). thanks, Michelle L. Flanders, NJ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Does anyone in north or central jersey have LTCI?
I'm trying to get it quickly for a cat currently at Red Bank hospital. RBVH is ordering today but I would like to start it today if anyone has any that I can pick up and then replace tomorrow.. If you do, please call my cell at 978-407-6322. Thank you! Michelle Lerner ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat
the 1 year and 3 year shots are the same shot. the recommendations just require a booster 1 year after the first shot, so the first time it's calle 1 year and thereafter 3 year. there is a less common brand called purevax that is only approved for every year versus every 3 years. it's only if you get that one that it's different than a 3 year. i get that for my cats because it does not have the adjuvant that can cause tumors. But I avoided vaccinating my positives entirely. They had one rabies and initial distemper when they came to me and i left it at that. when i moved and had to license i got a vet exemption letter due to health. Michelle -Original Message- From: Maureen Olvey To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:16 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat I think I might have mentioned it to you guys before but in case I didn't, studies have shown that the normal 1 year rabies vaccinations will provide immunity for at least 4 years. Interesting huh? I need to check out that group again to see if they've found anything else out or if it actually last longer than the 4 years even. I know they were doing more research studies. Will most vets give the 3 year one to a kitten? Most vets I've been to recommend that the kittens get the 1 year vaccination and then the next year they get the 3 year one. I'm sure the 3 year ones are safe for kittens I'm just wondering if the vets will actually let you do it. Then again, I'll probably wait until she's about 8 months old (if I still have her) so she won't really be a kitten anymore so it may not matter. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 13:06:22 -0500 From: g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat When you do, get the 3-yr rabies; my vet says there’s no longer of any danger as there used to be. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of MaiMaiPG Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 12:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat Figure the chances of something biting her and that the something might be rabid and might pass that on to her vs possible issues with the vaccine. Remembering of course that she is young and compromised as is. On Jan 4, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Maureen Olvey wrote: Good point. All this talk about vaccinations made me think about my FeLV + kitten. I hadn't even thought about it until today but she's old enough for a rabies shot. She's about four and a half months old right now. Do you think I should get one for her? She does go into my backyard but I have a cat fence and she can't get out. It's possible she could get bitten by something in the yard I guess, but not likely. I guess I should get a rabies shot for her just in case. What do you guys think? I know legally I'm supposed to but I'm not worried about that right now, I just don't want to give her unnecessary vaccinations. Maybe I'll just wait until she's about 6 months old. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain From: maima...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 10:21:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat Some vets seem to think enforcing a law that puts the burden of vaccination on the owner is the vets responsibilitynot so. On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Marcia Baronda wrote: My daughter took her cat to the vet in Ohio to get dental work done. The cat is 13, was bottle raised by her, and has NEVER set foot outside. He has no idea what "outside" is. Yet, they informed her that they would not touch her cat without giving him a rabies vaccine. It is strictly a county law. The next county over didn't require a rabies shot. So, she text me from the vet and said "I lied, I told them he had a rabies shot". They let it go at that, thankfully. My daughter was trying to do what she could to keep him from an unnecessary vaccination. And, it worked!! On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 3:03 PM, GRAS wrote: However, if a cat is strictly indoors, one can easily get away with not giving them rabies vaccines…who would know? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://fusion2.fusionhost.com/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __
Re: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat
I have. Have not seen any problem from it, but I do think it could trigger an upper respiratory infection or other problems like any stressful event. The thing is, remaining unneutered is a big source of stress, much bigger in my opinion than the surgery. Keeping an intact male from roaming or mating will result much restlessness and anxiety on his part. Unneutered cats generally have trouble keeping weight on and are less healthy, because so much energy goes into the reproductive system and behavior. Neutered cats are much calmer and healthier. For this reason, I would get him neutered. I have never seen a vet refuse to neuter a positive cat. Even the low-cost clinic we use does it. Michelle -Original Message- From: dppl dppl To: felvtalk Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2012 12:26 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] neutering a positive cat I still have Mitt, the kitten I found in October who tested positive. He seems to be healthy at this time and around 7-8 months old. I am thinking I should have him neutered but the local humane society refused to do surgery on a positive cat, claiming surgery could trigger an immune system problem. Has anyone neutered their positive cat after finding out it was positive and what was your experience? Thanks for any input. PS: Someone asked my in a prior posting why the vet give vaccinations before getting blood work results that showed positive. She sent the blookwork to an outside lad since she said it would be less costly and that same visit when blood was drawn, she went ahead and did vaccinations. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://fusion2.fusionhost.com/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://fusion2.fusionhost.com/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] sturvite crystals, bladder infection
Do NOT feed c/d if the other cats are eating it. if a cat with normal ph eats it they can get the opposite kind of crystals or bladder stone. this happened in my house. ZUse only s/o which prevents both kinds of crystals. Michelle -Original Message- From: dlgegg To: felvtalk Sent: Wed, Dec 7, 2011 9:16 pm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] sturvite crystals, bladder infection She drinks a lot of water. I have 2 fountains and that has helped in the water consumption a lot. They are fasinated by the sound of the water an each one has hs/her own way of drinking frm the fountain. Is the c/d food from Hill's? The vet gave me some s/d and she ate of that real good when we got home. Course it was nce and warm since it wa sitti by the heater all the way. Last time he gave me some for her, she turned up her nose at it. Harey the "pig" ate it all. ccarlsb...@gmail.com wrote: > C/d only food... Only!!! And extra water has helped my tweety tremendously. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: > Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 18:13:10 > To: > Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] sturvite crystals, bladder infection > > My Homie has a lot of crystals and an infection. The vet did a cystocentesis on her today in addition to urinalysis and sent a sample in for cultures and sens (aerobic and anaerobic) so we can find out which antibiotic will stop the bacteria infection. Iam also starting her on Hills s/d which he said would help disolve the crystals. I have been giving her a cranberry paste but he said that would clear out a lot of the "junk" in her bladder, but not do enough to disolve the crystals. Plus, we spend at least 20 minutes running arond the house every time I get it out. I swear she smells it because even tho she is not in the room when I get it out, she starts ducking and dodging to avod me. I feel like a cutting horse trying to out guess her and figure which way she is going to go next. Thisis her 3rd time this year with this. > Anyone know of wholistic helps for this situation? I tought of vitamin > C since it is acidic and might disolve them some. > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] EXTREMELY friendly young adult positive in NJ needs home
Hi. I used to be a member of this group when I had positives of my own (I adopted 6 at one time, years ago, which was quite a rollercoaster). Some of you may remember me. I now run a Trap-Neuter-Return program in NJ, and also have a baby and negative cats and an FIV+ cat, so cannot take on FeLV+ cats at this point. My group trapped a very friendly young adult unneutered male on Tuesday who people had been feeding for months outside at an apartment complex, probably abandoned by a tenant who moved out. He tested positive on a snap test for FeLV when he went to be neutered yesterday. We will get the IFA test done but are not hopeful. He is a really beautiful tiger and has no tail for some reason, does not look like trauma but more like a Manx cat. He is really, really, really friendly-- the kind of cat who meows/talks to you all the time and follows you around. He also seems to really like other cats, though has only interacted with them in the foster home through a cage because we did not know his status. He will now have to stay in a cage at the foster home, which is not good for a positive but we have no other options for him right now. Does anyone within driving distance of NJ need or want a companion for a positive cat? This cat is a really amazing cat. We call him Tito. You would not find a better companion for your cat or yourself. Thanks, Michelle Lerner Flanders, NJ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Never mind on sanctuary
I just saw that Second Chance Meow is in Nevada-- since we are in NJ, that is not practical anyway! Does anyone know of anywhere reputable in or near NJ? Best Little Cat House in PA will not work-- visited it last year and they are very overwhelmed and cats do not last long there. Drove 3 hours to bring a cat and returned with the cat (luckily the cat found a home 2 months later!). Does anyone know of any others? thanks, MIchelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Second Chance Meows
Hi. Does anyone know where this sanctuary is, if it's still in existence (I know they were having financial difficulties) and how to contact them? My TNR group has an FeLV+ cat, really great big 2 year old love mush, and have not been able to place him and don't want to just keep him in a cage. He is currently being fostered by someone who is also fostering a bunch of negatives, so he can only get out of the cage when they are confined. We all know that is not good for a positive cat. I saw some posts here that Second Chance Meow is a good place. Thanks, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] vaccinations
PureVax makes a rabies vaccine with no adjuvant. That is what I get my cats. It's more expensive and it lasts only one year instead of 3, but is supposed to have no risk of vaccine-associated sarcoma so I think it is worth it. I only revaccinate yearly because my town has cat licensing AND I am well-known to (and disliked by) the animal control officer because I got a TNR ordinance passed and run a TNR group. So I go by the book when it comes to my town's licensing ordinance in order to avoid any problems! I personally do not think cats need rabies updates on the schedule that is required by law, especially if they are indoor cats. Challenge studies have shown even one rabies vaccination to often last 4 years (without boostering). But I follow the law in my town, and try to mitigate any negative effects by only using PureVax. PureVax also makes an adjuvant free FeLV vaccine-- that one does not even use a needle! It's an air gun of some kind. It makes a little popping noise and pushes the vaccine under the skin. When I had positives, I got it for my one negative every year, even though I kept them separated, just in case. After my last positive died I stopped getting him FeLV vaccine because he stays inside. Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Best friends article
I sent the following to Estelle at BF: Dear Estelle: I am on a feline leukemia listserve with a woman who has beenconversing with you regarding the Clemans article on FeLV. Like her, Iam concerned about the way the article is written. I adopted 6 FeLV+cats and nothing about the article proved true with them. One was atleast 8 or 9 when she died, and the vets thought probably older (I hadher for over 6 years but she was a positive adult of unknown age when Iadopted her). Another lived to 6 years old, and two to 5 years old. Theremaining two died at just under 4 years and at 18 months. While theydid not live normal lifespans (though Patches, the oldest, lived longerthan the average housecat in the US), all but one lived far beyond the"less than two years" following diagnosis stated by Dr. Clemans. Moreover, none of the 6 cats were unable to fight off commoninfections or anemic from the FeLV. Two of them died of FIP and theother 4 of lumphoma. Until they got those diseases, they were healthy--when one brought in a URI to the rest, one course of clavamox got ridof it. Keeping them on Lysine then kept them healthy until they gotlymphoma or FIP years later. When the cats are well cared for in a home setting, versus a sheltersetting, this does not seem to be that uncommon (given the reports ofpeople on the listserve). I do object, like the other writer, toposting an article claiming that cats with FeLV are likely to getanemic and jaundiced and unable to fight off normal infections, andthat they are likely to live under two years past diagnosis, when it isbecoming more and more clear that this is not true outside of theshelter setting with proper care. Veterinarians just out of vet schoolhave reported to me that vet schools no longer teach that FeLV+ catsare likely to die within 2 years of diagnosis. That is apparently anold school thing that is proving to be untrue, and vet schools nowteach that the cats can live much longer with proper care. Best Friend is my favorite animal organization, and I am usuallythrilled with everything you do. I am, however, dismayed that thisarticle is posted on your website and encourage you to take it off.There are more updated and comprehensive articles on FeLV that can beposted instead. The article does a real disservice to positive catswaiting to be adopted. Best, Michelle Lerner -Original Message- From: felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, Feb 10, 2010 1:00 pm Subject: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 20, Issue 7 Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to felvtalk-requ...@felineleukemia.org You can reach the person managing the list at felvtalk-ow...@felineleukemia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. FW: Virginia Clemans article regarding Feline LeukemiaViirus (Laurieskatz) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:33:50 -0600 From: "Laurieskatz" Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Virginia Clemans article regarding Feline LeukemiaViirus To: Message-ID: <01caaa66$72a9d7c0$57fd87...@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone is so inclined, might be good for them to hear from others. Laurie From: Estelle Munro [mailto:este...@bestfriends.org] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 6:38 PM To: Laurieskatz Subject: RE: Virginia Clemans article regarding Feline Leukemia Viirus Dear Laurie, I have emailed Dr. Mike about your concerns and he does not feel that the article is inaccurate. Although brief, it does not give the impression that FeLeuk is an automatic death sentence nor does it in any way encourage folks to euthanize upon diagnosis. She does encourage folks to provide good nutrition, maintain a low stress environment, and keep in touch with the vet at any sign of illness. Perhaps at some point in the future Best Friends will do a more lengthy article on Feline Leukemia. Thank you so much for your input. We appreciate that your experience has been dramatically different to what Dr Clemans described and are genuinely delighted for you and your cats. Our experience and statistics we have seen show that what Dr Clemans wrote is unfortunately more common. Best Wishes, Estelle Munro -Original Message- From: Laurieskatz [mailto:lauriesk...@mchsi.com] Sent: Sun 1/31/2010 7:22 AM To: Estelle Munro Subject: RE: Virginia Clemans article regarding Feline Leukemia Viirus Thanks but this still does not address the issue of the FeLV article scaring people and the likely unnecessary euthanizing of cats diagnosed with this disease. Will you conside
[Felvtalk] Winston needs a home!
A TNR group I work with recently trapped a strapping 20 pound loverboy tom cat they named Winston. Winston is not fat, just huge. He is extremely sweet, almost startlingly so given his size and tough boy appearance. The vet said he is 2-4 years old. He got neutered yesterday and tested with a SNAP test today, and on the SNAP test was positive for both FeLV and FIV. The group cannot currently afford to get the more definitive lab test done but hopes to do so at some point. Until then, they are assuming he is indeed positive for both. He seems generally in good health, though had a runny nose when trapped (antibiotics cleared it up right away). My own doublepositive, Patches, lived to at least 8-9 years old, so I hope Winstonhas many good years ahead of him. But he needs to spend it in a homeand not in a cage, where he is now (in a foster home with a number offoster cats, who he cannot mingle with). This is a small rescue group and will have trouble adopting Winston out given his positive status. Is there anybody out there who might be willing to adopt this huge loverboy? We are in NW New Jersey, though we would be willing to drive him within a few hours. I am working on getting a picture of him and will send it, and also will post it on the group's webpage in the adoptable cats section. Please pass this on to anyone you think might be interested and able to give this boy a good home. We are heartbroken at the test results, not because we think they are a death sentence (we know better!) but because it might mean Winston has to spend many months in a cage waiting for an adopter, which is sad for any cat but can be dangerously stressful for a positive cat. Thanks for any help you can provide, Michelle Lerner ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] stomatitis
Hi. I'm fostering an FIV+ cat right now who has pretty bad stomatitis. We had his teeth cleaned and 6 of them removed, and after a few weeks of antibiotics post-dental surgery he was doing much much better-- eating a lot more, gained 3 pounds in 3 weeks, not seeming to have any mouth pain and the redness was all gone. We stopped the antibiotics (which had been clindamycin then switched to clavamox) and he remained ok for a few days. He then went to a potential adoptive home with another FIV+ cat. A week later she called for us to get him back, largely because his mouth got really bad again. He is back on Clavamox, and has been for a few days, but is growling when he eats and can only eat wet food that we break up into very small pieces. His gums are very inflamed again. I had 6 FeLV+ cats, but was lucky that none had stomatitis like this. For those of you whose cats have it or had it, what do you recommend? thanks, Michelle ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] PTSD
We had great luck calming PTSD-type anxiety in our cat Patches with small daily doses of Benadry. The vet told us the amount to give (I think it was 1/6 of a pill twice a day?) but she did not like getting pilled, which added to her stress, so we got the vet to call in a prescription to a compounding pharmacy for a transdermal dosing of it-- they put it into tubes and we rubbed one unit into the skin of the inside of her ear twice a day. We used it for about 6 years. It was like night and day. Before, she licked her stomach bald, went after all the other cats, and ran around crying like someone was after her (no one was). With the benadryl she was a happy, normal cat and all her stomach fur grew in. If we ever forgot a dose, she started reverting to anxious behaviors. It did not make her drowsy-- she played all the time and was quite perky and cheerful. I would recommend trying this over prozac or elevil any day. Do not buy benadryl cream to do this with-- it's totally different. you need to either give the correct dosing (ask your vet) of oral benadryl in pill form, or get oral benadryl compounded into a transdermal cream. Michelle L. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] beautiful and friendly Maine Coon cat, positive, needs home
Hi, everyone. I used to be active on this list when I had my positives, the last of whom passed away last year. I now run a Trap-Neuter-Return group, and we adopt out friendly adults and kittens. We have an extraordinarily friendly, lovey, and personable Maine Coon cat (the vet says he's pure Maine Coon) who is FeLV+. The vet says he's 3-5 years old. He's an exceptionally great cat-- he hugs like a human child and licks your face like a dog. We are in NJ. If you or anyone you know might be interested in adopting him, I can send photos, or you can see him at www.mtolivetnr.petfinder.com. His name is Animal. Thanks! Michelle Lerner = ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Sweet FeLV+ Maine Coon currently living outside needs home
Hi, all. I used to belong to this group a few years ago when my positives were still alive-- we lost Patches, the last of them, last September at the age of 8 or 9. ?I am writing to beg your help finding a home for an incredible positive cat who is currently living outside. I started a Trap-Neuter-Return project in my town a few months ago and we are trapping at a large apartment complex. Tonight a tenant showed me an extremely gorgeous and affectionate cat who lives outside her building. She and her neighbor feed him. Apparently he was abandoned a couple years ago when a tenant moved out. Another tenant took him in got him tested and he tested FeLV+. That tenant then moved out and reabandoned him. One of the tenants who currently feeds him can't take him in because she lives in a small apartment with negative cats. The other has no cats and takes him in for a night now and then in the winter, but will not keep him because he howls to go back outside. I am sure he would get over that in a few weeks, and don't think he should be outside another winter with his immune-compromised condition (not to mention that there are other cats? there and some people in the complex have complained about their cats getting out and coming back FeLV+). Would you consider taking this cat, or do you know someone who might? I will try to get a picture of him. He's a really great cat-- the type of cat you meet and immediately think "what a great cat!" Very personable. My house is currently full of negatives, both my own and fosters, and is divided into 4 areas with animals that can't meet, so I have nowhere to put him myself. I have use of a retired boarder's kennel for short-term holds, and can put him there temporarily, though I hate to stress him out by caging him. Will appreciate any help you can give finding this boy a home. thanks, Michelle Lerner ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Lucy and unsubscribing
Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to push Patched out of the way. I know she has FIP, or most likely does. I know there is no real cure and it will get her. But today does not seem to be the day, and I do not think it is selfish to decide that. Someone who can and wants to climb stairs, wants to eat (even if not a normal amount), wants company and pets, and can go running over to a bowl of food is, in my opinion, not asking to be killed. To whoever wrote that I should not do "home euthanasia," I was not considering home euthanasia, I was considering, in an emergency if she gets in distress, tranquilizing her until a vet could come or we could get to a vet. i did that with Simon and he immediately slept and actually died in his sleep before we needed to. But it was not intended as euthanasia. I and several others on the list have also used oral valium to ease passings, and it has done so. I do not think this is irrational. I stopped reading posts after that and just deleted, to whoever wrote something in the subject line about allowing suffering. Given that I had just come downstairs from Lucy's little trek and eating spree, it seemed too ridiculous to read. This list has been a godsend for me at times, and I have made friendships with a few of you that I hope to continue offline from the group. But this group is not helping me right now and is actually upsetting me quite a bit. So I am unsubscribing. Nina and Hideyo, I hope to stay in touch with you individually, and anyone else who actually wants to, and to share ideas and emotional support. But I am done with the group. Michelle
Fwd: from Michelle Lerner
Apropos to what I just wrote is an email I got from my old chiropractor, a healer, who I asked the same question of. Michelle --- Begin Message --- Hi MIchelle, I am so sorry to hear about your sadness. The question you are asking, I am afraid, isn't an easy one to answer. I will do my best. I think sometimes the most heroic thing we can do for one another is to allow suffering. Knowing that suffering is a sacred process is important. Often, we want to end OUR suffering at another's suffering. That seems unfair. Perhaps their soul is meant to have this struggle and the kindest thing we can do is to be there, listen, love, share. Trying to fix it or change it or stop it only robs the soul of an opportunity to evolve. Another thought about dying is that it is very similiar to midwifery. You are helping someone to transition. The energy can be very similiar. By trying to manage, control, anesthetize the being, you are robbing them of an incredibly powerful moment. On the other hand, (I am a libra and torment myself by understanding all sides)I also believe that pain medication is there for a reason and that it can sometimes create more peace for all parties to transition and evolve. It can create a less violent experience. Ultimately, I do not think that there are any easy answers. I think I will include you and Gray in my circle of prayers so that you will all have the strength, the courage and inner connection to listen deeply to what is calling you in the moment...thinking beyond simple right and wrong...no pun intended but being willing to live in the GRAY/GREY area with an open heart and soul. With much love and sympathy, Pam and a thing that >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Date: 2007/02/04 Sun AM 08:48:00 CST >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: from Michelle Lerner >Hi. I had been trying to email you a week or so ago because I sent an email to >all my friend who I think might pray, asking them to pray for my cat Lucy. I >had heard that lots of people praying, for one reason or another, sometimes >helps. She seems to have wet FIP. I don't know if you know what that is, but >it is an incurable, fast-moving disease. She is extremely anemic, lethargic, >and her belly and sides are full of fluid so she looks like a huge sack of >jelly. Right now I am just trying to make her comfortable, giving her lots of >steroids and syringe feeding her once a day to make sure she does not feel >sick from not eating enough. She eats on her own, just not very much. She >purrs when we pet her, and seems to want us with her. And last night she >somehow got herself to the top of a 6 foot tall cat tree, which is hard to >imagine because she is not even walking very well. I think she mostly feels >bad from the anemia-- her gums are white. She has been on epogen to stimulate >red blood cell production for almost two weeks, but it normally takes 3 to >kick in. Do you or have you or would you euthanize an animal? Gray is against >it, and I generally have only done it when they are actually in the process of >dying, i.e. their bodies have shut down and they are in rspiratory distress or >obvious pain. Except my horse Shire, who was in neither but his whole back >end was paralyzed and horses can not live laying down because they crush their >own organs and their guts get tied up. Anyway, part of me feels like I should >have the vet euthanize Lucy tomorrow, because she is so sick. But I don't know >if I would be thinking that if her body did not look so incredibly distorted-- >it is what makes her look sickest-- and her distorted body is not, I don't >think, what is bothering her. I think it is her anemia. And I think that >mostly makes her very very tired, which the steroids help with a little bit. >She is not hiding, and purrs when we pet her. I don't really know what to do. >I am curious what your feelings are on all of this, if you have time to tell >me. thanks, and I hope that you are well, more well than we are right >now,Michelle In a message dated 2/4/2007 9:32:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Hi Michelle, > >The best address to send something to me personally is [EMAIL PROTECTED] >How are you? > >Pam --- End Message ---
euthanasia
I do not often get offended by this list, and I know I am in a bad state to begin with. But I really take offense at this thing people always say, which at least one of you has said to me in my questioning what to do about euthanasia, that I need to ask if I am keeping her here for me or for her. We are talking about ending a life. Believe me, if I could actually tell that it would be the best thing for her, I would do it. As painful as it will be to be without her, it is also painful to watch her deteriorate. What I am trying to figure out is what is best for her, not what is best for me. Taking someone's life should not be done lightly, and if someone seems to be getting some enjoyment out of life, I think it is a totally fair question to ask if it is right to take their life at this time or if it is better to wait, for their own sake. For Lucy's sake. So I appreciate any insights about that, but I am going to stop asking for opinions here, because I don't think that just because I have different standards about euthanasia it means I am doing it or not doing it "for me" and being selfish. I could say the same thing, if I wanted, about people who euthanize as soon as they know something is terminal-- most people can not deal with hospice care or watching the decline of someone they love, so maybe they just euthanize "for themselves." Enough. I will deal with this on my own if that is the kind of answer I am going to get. I will stay offline now until this is over. Michelle
Re: essiac tonic
it is used mostly for cancer but also helps the immune system and detoxifies. In a message dated 2/4/2007 5:07:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: Hi, does anyone know a lot about essiat tonic and what it does to the body? Is it good for other than cancers?
Re: Luy not eating
I know that about purring. But she only purrs when we pet her, not otherwise, so I do think that means she likes us petting her. In a message dated 2/4/2007 5:07:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just don't know Michelle were she my cat, I would have euth'd her already, but she's not my cat. I do know purring isn't necessarily a good sign, they purr when they are miserable too. I think maybe it's time, but only you can see her, and read her body language. Phaewryn
Re: Luy not eating
I have backed off the meds. Just steroid shot once a day, and I gave her a metronidazole and her clindamycin once yesterday instead of twice, in case the metronidazole helps her diarrhea or the clindamycin helps the congestion. And nose drops every other day. That's all, though. I dont know what it means for her to show us she wants to stay. she looks pretty awful. Does purring occasionally, or laying the in the sun occasionally, or licking at food, mean that she wants to stay?? Michelle In a message dated 2/4/2007 3:06:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As long as she's still showing you that she wants to stay, I would back off of all meds except those that might make her more comfortable
Re: Luy not eating
actually, I think I meant to ask if I am horrible if I don't euthanise her, not if I do. She is clearly suffering to some extent. Every once in a while she seems to need air, meows and breathes with her mouth open, and if we open a door or window to the cold air she settles down. I gave her another dex shot (last one over 24 hours ago), and she started purring a little and walked a little better. Earlier today we realized she had dried diarrhea caked all over her behind, as if she had sat down in it during the night. I washed it off, which took a long time, and she purred very loudly during the whole thing and put her butt up in the air for me to wash and dry it. It was heartbreaking and cute at the same time. I am thinking of asking the vet to come over tomorrow. My heart is against it, but my mind says she is going through something that she does not have to. I decide it, and then after looking miserable for 30 minutes, she looks at me and starts purring, or checks out a food bowl and eats about a spoonful of baby food. And I think no, wait until she is in more distress than this. I have injectable valium in the fridge, given to me almost two years ago. I was thinking that if she goes into distress I can give her that and then call the vet. I looked it up online, though, and it said that IM valium can be painful, and that in a small number of cats it has the opposite than wanted effect, ie makes them hyperexcitable. She had hyperexcitability when she came out of anesthesia from having her bladder stone removed, so I worry about that. I also have telazol that was given to me for Simon-- I gave him half the shot to knock him out when he went into distress and he went to sleep and later died in his sleep. I kept the rest of the shot. The needle is not clean, obviously, but I guess at that point it would not matter. It is also two years old. In fact, he died two years ago tomorrow. How strange is that? All of my positives have died between the dates 12/31 and 2/22-- less than a 2 month span in deep winter. It seems like it must not just be coincidental, but like winter knocks their immune systems, even though they are inside. so I have been thinking we can just stay with her until she goes into distress, tranquilize her then and call the vet. But is it fair and right? Is episodic extreme weakness and open mouthed breathing, if it lasts only a few minutes, acceptable to live through if a half hour later she can eat a little food and purr? What about having crusted diarrhea on her, if she then likes having it cleaned off? She seemed in good health 3 weeks ago. I can not believe how fast her decline has been. I don't know if any of you remember, but in late December I emailed saying that she seemed to be gaining weight but only in her belly, and that I thought it might be fluid and could she have fip. Everyone said no, because she was not sick otherwise. But I think it must have started then, oddly enough, and she just did not show symptoms for another 3-4 weeks. I think now i should have taken her somewhere, that if the fluid had been found then, and maybe her anemia, I could have started her on feline interferon and epogen and maybe they actually would have worked. I started them too late. And then I think that none of the success stories I have read about with feline interferon and fip concern and felv+ cat, and at least we had a few weeks thinking things were ok, and not forcing meds on her. I don't know. So painful. Michelle In a message dated 2/4/2007 3:06:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, I don't think you are horrible for considering euthanizing Lucy. You've thrown everything but the kitchen sink at her and she hasn't responded the way you hoped and now it seems you've come to the agonizing point of resolving yourself to the fact that your intervention won't be able to turn her around. This is only my intuition talking, perhaps I'm wrong, but you still seem desperate to control the situation, helping her cross is the final thing that you could do for her. I fully realize how much you love her, that everything you've done has been with her best interest in mind, I'm confident that Lucy feels that way too. She's been such a trooper through all this, she's still purring when you and Gray pet her, she's still licking at her food, she's still grateful for the time she can spend with you. As long as she's still showing you that she wants to stay, I would back off of all meds except those that might make her more comfortable, (perhaps just Pred and maybe saline nose drops for the congestion), and let her take it from here. I know how you and Gray feel about euthanasia, if that is what you decided to do, make sure it is coming from your heart and not your head. Listen to her, she will tell you when/if she is ready. My
Re: Luy not eating
Yesterday at one point Lucy howled and started open mouth breathing and stumbled to the garage door where there is cold air. I assumed (and still think) it was her anemia getting so bad she was not getting enough oxygen. I almost reached for valium to knock her out for euthanasia, but instead gave her a combo dex/depo shot just to see if it would help. She settled down and lay on a pillow by the garage door for hours, and we lay with her petting her, and she purred a lot and eventually ate a little bit. Last night she climbed to th top of the cat tree again at some point, and back down, and is on the couch now. She tried to eat a little baby food, but I don't think she can taste or smell due to congestion that came back with the steroids, so she only ate a little. So I syringed her, thinking once a day is not that much torture. I only pilled her once yesterday. I am just trying to keep her comfortable, and when she is not I won't let her suffer. As I am writing, she got up and went into the kitchen to drink some water. I don't want to give her immuno-regulin, Kerry, because I do think this is FIP and I-R works by jump-starting an immune response, and with FIP it is the immune response that kills them. Plus I would need to take her to the vet for IV shots, as the sub-q shots did not seem to help her at all when I thought this was just a URI weeks ago and gave them to her. There was reason for you not to think Bandy had FIP. He might have had dry FIP, you know. It is not unheard of for a cat to be kept going for a year with dry FIP. But Lucy is like a huge sack of jelly at this point. She can't even absorb sub-q fluids-- they go to her belly or stay in her shoulders. It is like her whole body has turned to jelly. She does not walk well. I have no idea how she got herself to the top of the cat tree last night. A part of me thinks that I should just get her euthanized tomorrow (today is Sunday and I am not driving her to an ER). I hardly ever euthanize, and when I do it is when they are actually dying or in distress. And she purrs when we pet her, and she takes a few licks of food at a time, and she got to the top of a cat tree last night. So I don't want to. she looks awful, though, and I would guess her HCT is incredibly low. Am I being horrible? Michelle In a message dated 2/3/2007 11:15:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, I haven't had a chance to catch up on all of this, but I read that someone said stay on dex...I would have to agree with this..I don't think the fevers are from the dex..That would be almost impossible..I think.. Is she drinking on her own at all? I would stay with the clindamycin, dex, feline interferon and epogen.. Have you recently given her immuno-regulin? Bandy received all those things except the feline interferon at the same time and always with good results...They always mentioned he had FIP, but I would just disagree with them..guess cause his tests didn't really reflect it at the specialist..Commits were always made about it at his local vet.. When Bandy wouldn't eat...I would do as I am sure you are..try everything..Kitten food would work sometimes when all else failed..he was on hills kitten food most of the time anyway.. But I would buy can kitten food..and even offer him other not so good smelly things...Just getting him to eat anything would sometimes make him turn the corner to go back on his regular diet.. The egg yolk, white karo and evap milk..sometimes would work, too..I don't know how Lucy's IBD would handle that though..Have you tried cat-sure? Prayers are coming your way, Kerry, Angel Bandy and Inky
Re: Luy not eating
She ate a tiny bit (like maybe 10 licks). So finally I syringe fed her 2/3 of a jar of baby food, with gray petting her as I did. She did not seem to hate it that much, and perhaps less than having food shoved in front of her face every 30 minutes, and afterwards she washed her face and then purred while I pet her. Maybe I will do this a few times a day for a few days and see, unless she starts to hate it more. confused and depressed, but cuddling with my girl, Michelle
Luy not eating
Well, as of last night she will not eat at all. She was hardly eating since I gave her the dex shot the night before, I think because it unmasked her URI and her nose got congested. I have a vicks vaporizer on for that, used nose drops, gave lysine, etc. but it is not clearing up this time. But she was eating a little. I then gave her denosyl for the third night in a row. And I think it made her nauseous, because she has not eaten a thing since and and she looked bad for about an hour afterwards. I looked it up and it can cause vomiting, apparently-- don't know how I missed that the first time. The second night I think it may have made her temporarily nauseous as well, but I thought it was the feline interferon. The result is that she is not eating at all now. I did syringe her a little (about 20 cc' baby food) last night. But she hated it. I don't know what to do. She probably has wet fip. I had told myself I would not torture her by force feeding her when she is terminal anyway. But I don't know now. What if she really is not eating just because her nose is stuffed up from the dex? Monday will be week 2 of epogen and feline interferon-- what if they started working? It is all doubtful. I do not want her last days to be full only of needles, pills, and forced feedings. I also don't want her to die early because of a stuffed up nose, if that is what is going on. what to do? Please pray for her. thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy--what to do? - pentoxifylline?
Thank you. I have heard of it, and have read up on it. It seems to help sometimes with FIP. However, it's a blood thinner, and she is really anemic right now, so I would be afraid to try it. Also, I think all the meds I have given her have made her not want to eat much, so I don't think I want to start new ones on top. thanks for looking up things for us though, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:02:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've been praying for Lucy and visualizing her healthy. I've also been looking over various bits of FIP info on the web. I've come across references to pentoxifylline (Trental made by Aventis Pharmaceuticals). I was unable to find a reference to Trental in recent digests, so I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about it. If you're interested, Google "pentoxifylline FIP." Lance
Re: Lucy--what to do?
oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He think she has wet fip, he thinks there is not all that much to do, he is surprised she has been eating to date, he has never heard of some of the stuff I have had him order to put her on (feline interferon) and has never used other stuff (epogen) and I think that he thinks I am trying to solve something without a solution. I was gradually tapering her until yesterday-- she was down to 10 mg/day. And she seemed way more lethargic. Which is why I decided to go the other way and gave her the dex. Now I am going back to 12.5 mg/day of prednisolone and seeing if that helps. She is up at the top of the cat tree again, though she needed some help to get to the top rung this time because her belly is so big it's hard for her to pull herself up there. I am surprised she is up there, because earlier she was so exhausted just from going to the litterbox that she laid down on her way back to take a break. She is eating some again, thank God, but not nearly as much as she was pre-dex. And I can not measure it anymore, because she is only interested in freshly opened jars of baby food today, and then only eats a little, so I have many open jars with a little bit gone and no idea how much she has eaten. I would guess maybe one jar full. Normally by this time of night she has been eating 2 or 2.5 jars full. But at least she is eating something. I syringed her a little food as well with herb tinctures I just got from Robert MacDowell in Australia, and she did not seem to mind so much, so maybe I should syringe her more, I don't know. I hate to bother her so much. she is very purry again, though. I really love her. thanks for asking, Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can always gradually taper off. What does your vet say? How is Lucy doing this evening? elizabeth
Re: Lucy--what to do?
I can't do that. Once they have been on steroids long-term, you can't just stop it. It causes adrenal and circulatory problems and would make her feel way worse. In a message dated 2/2/2007 6:59:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If I were you, I might just let her body recoup and give it a break from all the drugs a bit.. but I am not there to see her.. I don’t know for sure either…
Re: what would you do?
prednisolone. In a message dated 2/2/2007 1:11:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle - when you say pred - do you mean predisone or predisolone? I would recommend that you use predisolone
Re: what would you do?
The last dex shot actually made her eat MORE the next morning, despite the congestion, not less. Since I wrote she ate a little more baby food. But, again, no more than 1/5 of a jar and probably not even that much. In a message dated 2/2/2007 12:13:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't panic, Michelle. Since she began to eat again after the last dex shot just assume she will start again after this one. Give her a hug from me. Will continue prayers.
Re: what would you do?
.5 cc. It is not giving her so much energy-- she is still just laying in the cat tree, and not eating. If I am going to give her less dex, I think I should just go back to the pred. I am really scared that she has now stopped eating for good. she ate 3 jars of baby food yesterday before I started giving her all this stuff. I should have just left well enough alone. Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 12:02:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, How much dex are you giving Lucy? Could you try to lower the dose significantly and see if it still helps? Nina
Lucy
I don't think I am going to do the dex again. She has been eating about 3-4 jars of baby food a day, and ate about 3 yesterday. But she has hardly eaten since I gave her the dex. I think today she has eaten at most 1/5 of a jar of baby food and a couple of licks of a/d, and it is almost noon. I hope it is just because of the congestion that came back with the dex and that it will go away. But last time when dex gave her congestion she still had an appetite-- more of one, actually. So I am scared she is just stopping eating. I don't want to have to syringe her. She is already so displeased with me. Gray, is reflecting light off a cd onto the ceiling, which Lucy loves, and she is following it around the room with her head and eyes from the top of the cat tree. She has always loved moving light; she is the only one out of all of them who ever liked a laser toy, and she used to love it. She won't look at it now. Michelle
Re: Bandit is NEGATIVE
that's great! he's actually negative on the corona titer and on the toxo titer?? if so, I would recommend IV shots of immuno-regulin. That really helped my cats get over tough URI's, and has worked for other cats on the list as well. Michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 11:21:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Completely bloodwork just came in. He's negative for everything. Vet's best guess now is a very tough URI. He'll stay on the Clindamycin and steroidal eye ointment for a total of 10 days and of course we will be watching him closely after that for any signs of recurrence. Thank you for all the helpful suggestions and kind thoughts. Lynette =^..^=
Re: what would you do?
but it's not that low grade. It's not that I know she is feverish because I take her temp. Hear ears get hot and she gets really out of it and does not want to be touched or to move. I would have noticed this for sure. In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:40:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i'm thinking that she might have been getting low-grade fevers for YEARS before any of this happened--i do, every night, tho i never realized it until i actually got sick with something and started monitoring it! at other times of the day, my body temperature drops down to 96 or lower. i know you've been really aware of it since this started recently, but there might be a natural fluctuation that is being enhanced by whatever current processes are going on. and if fever hadn't been a part of this to start with, how many people would even CHECK to see if a shot of dex was affecting their cat's body temperature? usually when i'm giving dex, that's about the last thing i've ever thought about what i'm trying to say is that the fever might NOT be as huge a problem as some of the other things to consider at this point.
Re: what would you do?
no, I have been very attentive to her temperature since this whole thing started a few weeks ago, and she definitely has not been getting fevers in the past week at least except after getting dex. I specifically waited days between dex shots to monitor this, and she did not get feverish at all the night she did not get it. as for the other questions, I have no idea... thanks for responding, michelle In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:15:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the thing that's so crazy-making here is that there are SO many possible things going on, and so many medications involved, that it's really impossible to know what's causing what. in every creature--human included--some will have idiosyncratic responses to medications, no matter how many experts say it can't happen. on the other paw, for all you really know, the dex has nothing to do with her fevers--she may have been getting night-time low-grade fevers for years as part of her own body chemistry, and you just had no reason to notice it so hard to know what to do. i personally prefer to go with dex usually, partially because my cats take injectibles much more gracefully than pills, and dex seems to be so quick-acting. but i guess you have to weigh WHICH option has the GREATEST chance of sucess--the interferon, or the epogen? is feeling better temporarily to be preferred over GETTING better? (would her healing be better served by letting her stay eating and purring and less active?) in other words, i only have more questions for you, no answers. continuing to send GLOW
Re: what would you do?
coincidence or not, she also seems to be eating less since I gave her the dex. Perhaps because of the congestion. Michelle
what would you do?
So through yesterday Lucy continued to purr and eat and occasionally slowly walk to the litterbox or another room. She is very fatigued, probably from her anemia. Hideyo had said that giving the feline interferon every day seemed to help Dharma feel better, so I gave Lucy the feline interferon for the second day in a row yesterday afternoon. In the evening, she was much more out of it. Still no fevers though. So at about 10 pm I gave her a dexamethasone shot that I got from the vet. I was planning, if I thought she definintely has fip (which is seeming more and more likely) to put her on steroid shots to make her more comfortable. Well, this is the second time she got a dex shot, the other time being Tuesday after getting some fluids drained. Last night, like Tuesday, she got a fever about an hour after getting the dex shot, and all the congestion came back to her nose. Although it does not really make sense according to the vet, I am positive now that the return of fevers and congestion comes from the dex shots. But, like last time, when I got up in the early morning she was at the top of the 6 foot tall cat tree, and purring. She has been there all morning. She has meowed a few times, which she normally did a lot while healthy, and purrs, and has eaten a little, but generally looks the same as she did before getting the additional feline interferon and dexamethasone, only at the top of the cat tree rather than on a cat bed on the floor. Clearly she got some burst of energy, but I think it is rather temporary. So I am trying to decide, now, whether to switch her from oral prednisolone to dexamathasone shots. I did read in the archives of one of the FIP lists that a cat with presumptive dry FIP (all the signs and lab work, but no tissue biopsy) was put on strong dexamethasone instead of pred and after a couple of months went into remission and is still in remission 2 years later. And dex gives Lucy at least a small period of energy, clearly, a few hours after getting the shot. And another potential upside is that if it reduces her fip-induced inflammation more than the pred, it could give the epogen more of a chance to work, as epogen apparently does not work well if there is a lot of inflammation because inflammation causes sequestering of iron, even when iron is added (I am giving pet tinic and folic acid). And anemia may be what is likely to kill her first. Those are the potential upsides of giving dexamethasone instead of pred. Here are the downsides: She seems to get temporary fevers from the dex, and she seems to feel pretty miserable while she has the fevers (and I need to give her some fluids, which may increase her belly effusion, and put ice on her, which she doe snot like). So far she had fever last night for a couple of hours. Last time the fever came back the following afternoon, so I will need to see if that happens today. Also, she looks a little bit wired-- her expression. Then, she seems to get some of her URI symptoms back from the dex, like some congestion in her nose. Finally, she is still on clindamycin in case this is toxo. It is looking less and less like toxo, but I can not find a way of telling for sure and sometimes the antibiotics do not make a big difference for a few weeks. Even high doses of pred like she was on is bad for treating toxo, but dex is the worst-- when lab researchers induce toxo in animals to study it (horrible, I know), they bring out the clinical symptoms (most animals do not actually get sick just from being infected with toxo) by giving them dexamethasone. So giving dex is a definite giving up on the abx doing anything. Also, Lucy is on feline interferon, and it is unclear what being on dexamethasone would do to the chances of the feline interferon helping her in any way, whether prolonging life or just making her feel better. Feline interferon is normally given with some prednisone, but lower dosage of pred than Lucy has been getting, much less dexamethasone. They do not know why the feline interferon helps sometimes with fip. In one theory it is anti-viral, which means that increasing steroids would decrease its ability to work. In the other theory it modulates the immune system and therefore controls inflammation when the immune system is out of control like with fip, in which case steroids would work in conjunction with it rather than against it. But all of the success stories (of which there are only a few) of feline interferon curing fip or giving long remissions have been with using it in conjunction with less pred than Lucy was on. None with dex, though I do not think it has been tried with dex. So what would you do? Switch to dex or keep her on the pred? I have never had a doubt before about this when I thought my cats were in their last stages that it was the right thing to give heavy do
Re: internist thinks Lucy has FIP-- Beth
Beth, how long did Ally live after diagnosis? Did you treat her with anything that seemed to help make her more comfortable? thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/20/2007 11:11:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle, I am sorry you haven't had any good replies yet over on the FIP list, I am on that list too, they usually run slower and less detailed on replies than this amazing felv list. I don't have experience with FIP like the breeders on the list, but they often seem to distrust FIP diagnoses. Have you been to Dr. Addie's site on FIP? I believe she has a worksheet there that can help rule FIP in or out. My Ally was diagnosed as wet FIP by her regular vet, I am still not sure she was right, but here are the symptoms she had: lethargy recurring URI (whenever we tried to wean her off antibiotics) recurring fevers inappetance red "swimmer's ear" infection that wouldn't clear fluid in abdomen (not thick, barely tinted yellow inconsistent with FIP) big belly within a week. FCoV titre - 1:100 (again, not very indicative of FIP) FeLV+ FIP is so frustrating, I guess all of these symptoms can result from other problems. It sounds to me like you are treating her in the best possible manner. The only way I can see the surgery being helpful is if it could find another treatable cause of her symptoms. If it only rules FIP in or out, I too would choose not to put her through it. She has been fighting the fevers much better than my Ally did, so it may very well be something else. I so hope that she is rallying again as I type this... Strength, Beth
Re: acemannan side effects? - to michelle
she has fip, which no one has said acemannan helps with, and it has to be given in the stomach, which means taking her to the vet, so no. I thought about it initially before we knew what was going on with her. In a message dated 2/1/2007 4:51:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow that’s amazing – Michelle – do you want to consider this for Lucy –for her anemia?
Re: Lucy's fluids
Hideyo, since it seems like fip, I am not sure what to do to keep her comfortable. I am tempted to give her steroid shots. However, if there is a chance the feline interferon and epogen could actually help, maybe more steroids would not be the best thing. Have you read or heard about any cats who have been as clinically ill as Lucy and with so much effusion, and for several weeks already, where the feline interferon ended up helping? I am actually losing hope and thinking more and more of just trying to keep her comfortable, though I don't even know what the best way is to do that. In a message dated 2/1/2007 1:29:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually – it was not – I meant to send an article and realized that it was saved on my lap top at home and forgot to do so when I got home --
Re: Lucy's fluids
yes, I got it. Was that one of Dr. ishida's patients? I wrote to Dr. ishida asking him what he has seen in terms of results from VO for FIP since the 2003 article. He did not write back. You said that you talked to him-- did he tell you this? Did he tell you anything that might give me more hope? thanks, michelle In a message dated 2/1/2007 1:21:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am sorry that the test result is supporting more for FIP, Michelle – but at the same time, don’t give up yet.. there was a cat having FIP and FIV got treated with FOI and made a complete recovery – did you get your FOI package?
Lucy's fluids
I got Dr. Ishida's article and read it. Lucy's fluid cytology fits every one of the criteria he used for determining fip effusion. The only thing she does not have (or didn't on 1/17 when bloodwork was done, anyway) that he used for diagnosis criteria is high protein and globulin levels in the blood, but Dr. Addie says that only 50% of cats with wet fip have that, maybe because they are effusing some of their proteins and globulins into their abdomen rather than it all circulating in their blood, I don't know. Anyway, it really seems, and looks, like fip at this point. Except that I can't get anyone to give me an answer about what the cytology parameters are for toxo effusions. Michelle
Re: Please send more prayers for Lucy
The lab wouldn't do it, just did total protein and globulin, but my vet said he could calculate it from that since protein is mostly albumin plus globulin, and he got .555. The cytology report called the fluid straw colored and cloudy. Total protein 4.2, total wbc .88 thousand, specific gravity 1.028. looking more like fip, though of course not definitive still. In a message dated 2/1/2007 12:29:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle – I am glad that you and Lucy are calmer -- when you get a/g ratio, even if it’s low, don’t put too much weight on it – most of my cats I have have the ratio 0.2 or 0.3 (which is really really low) but they don’t have FIP – just as reference..
Please send more prayers for Lucy
It seemed to help so much last time. Yesterday morning she had such a spike in energy from getting extra steroids the day before-- climbing a cat tree, going outside, walking around, meowing, coming upstairs. But then she got feverish and was out of it for a while. Since last night, and this morning, she has seemed very comfortable-- purring, lays in comfortable positions, alert, still eating baby food though perhaps a little less (hard to tell). She gets up every once in a while and walks to another room to pick a new spot to sleep in, or to go to the litterbox. She moves slowly. I think her anemia is worse. But she is so calm, alert, and purry, and her URI symptoms seem a bit better, perhaps since I lowered her steroids a bit yesterday. I briefly thought about transfusion again, but she seems so much more content than she has in a while, and is so calm and purry, that I really don't want to put her through anything. So I will continue the feline interferon and epogen, and her clindamycin and pred, and hope that something kicks in. Please pray for her as much as you can-- it really seemed to help last time. I did a phone consult with a vet at Cornell yesterday who said it is possible she has toxo, though probably less likely than fip, but if it were him he would slowly try to lower her steroids rather than upping them to give her a chance for the abx to work if it is toxo. So I may try to do that very slowly, still not sure. But am holding off on steroid shots right now for that reason and because, while the dex shot seemed to give her a few hours of a lot of energy, she then got feverish for the first time in a week and her uri symptoms came back for 2 days. Not sure if it was the steroids, but it could have been. So I think I will keep the shots in reserve for now and try to hold the status quo. thanks for all your support. It's strange, but even though I think she is weaker, I feel calmer right now because she seems so calm and alert and comfortable, and because she purrs and does not have that miserable far-of look about her. I think when she gets that she is feverish. Anyway, I am a bit calmer for the time being. I will get new cytology report today with cell description and hopefully albumin/globulin ratio. I got numbers yesterday and her protein levels in her effusion went down from 64 to 41, but her wbc and rbc count in it also went down a lot. She had a ton more fluid this time, I think because of all the sub-q's we were giving her, so the local vet just thinks her fluid was more diluted this time and that's why the protein levels went down. They are still high-- higher than the minimum considered compatible with fip. And her fluid was light yellow when drawn. I still have not been able to get an answer as to what toxo fluid looks like, though, or its likely cytology. But she is meeting a lot of the effusive fip criteria now. I still hope it's toxo. thanks again, michelle
Re: Bandit: toxoplasmosis
Patti, If he is doing so much better, I think it is likely that he has toxo and not fip. It can be very hard to tell fip from toxo-- toxo can cause pretty much all the symptoms and lab work of fip. but it can be cured with clindamycin, and they are supposed to start feeling better within 3 days. How much pred is he on? Michelle In a message dated 2/1/2007 12:29:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Right now, I am (trying to) deal with my Puma's diagnosis - FIP (dry) AND toxo.. The vet I use I really like, and have much faith in him. He went over the "specific" test results, and, I kind of DO believe him... When I got home from hosp., my Puma was just not right... He was eating & drinking MUCH... Also, sleeping a lot. (But, heck, he IS 17+ so the excessive sleeping I thought, went along with his advanced age) He also had loose stools, very vocal, but not in a painful tone, chronic ear infections that NOTHING would help... I thought, due to his age, it was probably kidney or thyroid. But, his kidney and thyroid tests came back FINE... When I got the results of tests done (a gazillion), and vet said it was toxo and FIP, I was floored! Years ago, I did have an FIP epidemic in my home while fostering, lost TWO of my babies (confirmed thru necropsies...), and I wonder just how long FIP can go undetected...(???)) I didn't know much about toxo, and all my furbabies are indoor only... So, I DO wonder just how my Puma got it. (???) I no longer foster for shelter, and all my new "rescues" are upstairs in the master bedroom and bath... So, he was NOT exposed to any new cats.. Anyway, Puma was given clindo and prednisone,also daily sub-q fluids, and I swear, he is doing so much better..Still has the "ear problems" though... I just know that since he started on both meds, he's so much better (I only pray that when his time comes, he goes peacefully in his sleep. I have promised ALL my furbabies I will never let them suffer.. That's the least I can do for them, as they have done SOOO much for me. I swear, they are the reason I survived my MVA, because I "needed them". What can I say? I prefer non-humans over humans) All I know is it was the clindo & pred that did improve his "symptoms".. In fact, I no longer have to give him daily sub-q fluids. Wish I could help you out with more "specifics", but I can only relate to my Puma's experience Best wishes, good luck and for both you and Bandit
Re: fever question
so far, knock on wood, she is still eating, on the pred. She will only eat baby food, but I add stuff to it. She eats between 3 and 4 jars a day, which should be enough calories. I think she ate less today than yesterday, but I just ran out and she licked the last of it clean, so can't be sure. Michelle In a message dated 1/31/2007 11:57:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway, I hope you can get some pills to use at home to give Lucy a boost..It will be well worth it..and maybe if she can eat some more she will feel better as Bandy always did..
Re: Bandit: toxoplasmosis
They get it from feces by getting it on their paws in the litter box and then grooming themselves. When did he start on clindamycin? any improvement? is he felv+? has he been on steroids in the past? both can make them get clinical toxo even if they have just been carrying toxo without being sick, as many cats do. In a message dated 1/31/2007 7:32:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Titers for toxo do not necessarily tell you if a cat has toxo, but there are > two that can help: IGM titer and IGG titer. Apparently the ratio between the > two can strongly indicate toxo. Regardless of whether you do these tests, > though, or their results I would start on clindamycin immediately. Be aware > that the dose for toxo is double the dose of using clindamycin for other > purposes-- it's 12.5 mg/kg twice a day rather than once a day. I guess I left out some critical details. He was prescribed 75 mg tabs of Clindamycin twice a day. Doing the conversions that's a little light for a 14.something lb. cat but not much. I'll mention this to the vet when she calls with the blood results tomorrow. He was also prescribed Triple AB w/Steroid Ointment for his eyes, which are one of his major symptoms. He's had his first dose of both. She gave a month's worth. Note that he improved on the Clavamox and NeoPolyBac the first vet prescribed, but relapsed. I guess any antibiotic is better than nothing, but 10 days wasn't nearly enough of the wrong drug. Or something like that. She was hoping we'd get blood results tomorrow but it may be Friday. I won't be able to post them until the weekend. I don't know if she ordered the titers you mention above; she said it would be a very "full panel" as if it's not toxo she wants to have all information at hand. On the "how to prevent my pet from becoming infected" (concerns for the other felines plus future foster cats) section it is not clear to me how this ever transmits via feces. They'd have to eat it, wouldn't they? I'm trying to figure out how he got it, too. He does go outside, and he is a successful hunter. He was last out at least 3 months ago, and he thinks prey is something to be brought home and shown off, not eaten. Could it lie dormant 3+ months? Could something like being beat up/bitten by one of our other cats cause it to come out of dormancy? thanks, Lynette
Re: Bandit: toxoplasmosis
Titers for toxo do not necessarily tell you if a cat has toxo, but there are two that can help: IGM titer and IGG titer. Apparently the ratio between the two can strongly indicate toxo. Regardless of whether you do these tests, though, or their results I would start on clindamycin immediately. Be aware that the dose for toxo is double the dose of using clindamycin for other purposes-- it's 12.5 mg/kg twice a day rather than once a day. Michelle
Re: Bandit: toxoplasmosis
Lynette, Right now I am hoping and praying, probably without reason, that Lucy has toxo rather than fip. So I have done A LOT of reading on toxo. Clindamycin is the treatment of choice and it usually takes 3 weeks for significant improvement, though some improvement should be seen after 3 days. No special diet, other than no raw food. If it might be toxo, get him off clavamox and onto clindamycin right away!!! unfortuanately, all of these symptoms can also be dry fip. But treat for toxo and see if he improves! And do it soon Michelle In a message dated 1/31/2007 6:09:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bandit is 3.5 yrs, -/- and used to be healthy. He previously had a round of fever for which no cause was identified (starting January 6), antibiotics were prescribed, and improvement was seen. Last Friday, he showed symptoms again; stiff gait, fever 103.2. We started him back on Clavamox. We had found bite marks all along his back, and thought the previous round of antibiotics just didn't go long enough to take care of whatever infection there was. Of course the part where I'm pretty sure the biter is FIV+ is not very good either. Saturday, we locked he and his brother in the bathroom for our diabetic cat's morning feeding and insulin (otherwise they annoy her, she doesn't eat, etc.). They are locked in for about 10 minutes and are totally accustomed to this routine. When we went in to get them, my partner lifted him up from in front of the heat vent onto the toilet to put eye medication in (he's had constant eye infections for the past month) and he was peeing. Simply all over, didn't stop, looked like he couldn't help himself, totally embarassed. I called a vet I had met volunteering with my humane society; the best one I've encountered. I couldn't get in to see her until today. We went through the symptom list and she said "toxo". We've drawn blood to confirm but all his symptoms match: lethargy, depression, eye issues, neurologic symptoms including bladder control, anorexia (he has lost TWO POUNDS since last October. I believe her gut is correct. I've now read through Phaerwyn's post for Michelle that had a lot of toxo information. I haven't found anything that explains the long term effects of toxo very well. I'd also like any toxo specific dietary recommendations, supplements? I am so worried. Any information would be appreciated. Lynette =^..^=
Re: fever question
Yesterday she was laying around not moving much. So far this morning she has climbed a 6 foot tall cat tree, gone outside, gone on the kitchen table, and come upstairs for the first time in a week. That is the steroids. She has a very large belly even after draining and a back bone sticking out and her membranes are white. I am giving her epogen and feline interferon and hoping for a miracle, but probably she does not have long enough to worry much about long term steroid effects. I am happy she feels more like herself. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 10:12:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I worry about so much steroid overtime because although cats can tolerate far more than dogs...there is still a point where they cannot help but begin to acquire the side-effects. I'm not advising -- just generally wanting to understand.
Re: fever question
cats handle steroids better than humans and dogs do. and when they are terminal it can be the only thing that makes them feel better. And dexamethasone always seemed to bring Kerry's Bandy's fevers right down. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 11:42:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have severe asthma so I feel like I know a little bit about steroids. Steroids can reduce inflammation while not fighting fever- and at the same time leaving the body unable to properly fight off infection -- that was really my point in this. Long term steroid use can have devastating effects on a body...including osteoporosis, bruising, cataracts...dexamethasone gives me acid reflux so bad that it shoots up and burn the insides of my sinuses (TMI - sorry). Cushing's syndrome is terrible -- caused by long-term steroid use. NSAIDs work by a different mechanism on inflammation...their long-term side effects are quite different...and their effects to surpress fever are quite different. (one dose of aspirin or advil will send me straight to ER - believe me - they work differently) I am painfully aware of the necessary evil of steroids - I am living proof...being able to breathe is something I find to be pretty important...but I respectfully do not believe that steroids reduce fever. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (such as ibuprophen and aspirin and naproxin-sodium) do...but corticosteroids do not reduce fever and can, infact, leave the body more susceptible to conditions that cause fever. elizabeth
Re: fever question
Actually, she now feels hot, not warm. I have two ice packs against her and she actually climbed on top of a third on her own. If it is not down in 15 minutes I will give her fluids. What I don't understand is why she got another high fever all of a sudden, after so long. She got more steroids today than she probably has ever gotten, so she should be less-- much less- prone to getting a fever today. Does this mean the fip is getting worse? Could it somehow be because her fluid got drained today? she is still on a mega-dose (toxo dosing) of clindamycin, so it should not be that she got an infection of any kind from that. depressed and concerned, Michelle
fever question
Lucy has mostly, I think, not had bad fevers since starting on 10 mg/day of pred plus clindamycin Saturday before last. Occasionally she has felt warm, though, like she does now, and I think has a low grade fever. When at the vet on Sat she felt warm like this and her temp was 104.1. She felt cool when she got home so we chalked it up to stress. But she is warm again now, and has been periodically. What I did when her fevers were high, and up until today even when she just felt warm like she does now, is give her fluids and if needed put ice packs against her. However, I decided today, while at the vet's, to try not giving her fluids generally, as I had been giving her about 100 cc's every day sub-q just as supportive care. The reason I decided to try stopping is that Gray really felt that her belly was partially expanding so quickly with fluid because the sub-q's were ending up there. I told him this was not possible without low protein count, which to my knowledge she does not have (proteins were normal when blood taken on 1/17). But I asked the vet, and he said he thinks it's possible that some of it has been ending up in her belly. He said that if she is eating so much baby food-- 2-4 jars per day, usually at least 2.5 or 3-- and drinking she should be fine without fluids. I said she is not drinking, but then again I have been giving her fluids daily. I asked if adding water to the baby food would be sufficient, and he said he thought it should be. She hates getting fluids, so I also thought it would minimize stress. But now she feels warm. By now I normally would have given her fluids, which perhaps kept her from getting warm, I don't know. She is eating while this warm-- just ate probably 1/4 jar baby food. She hates the ice packs too. Do you think it is ok at this point, if she is eating and looking fairly alert, just not to do anything about the fever and see if it goes down on its own? She seems happier when not feverish-- purrs, etc., and does not when feverish-- but I would like to see if not giving them helps her belly refill more slowly. Please let me know your thoughts. By the way, I think she was eating one night when her fever was 105.8, so I can't swear that it is actually low-grade by the way she is acting. Michelle
Re: Lucy update
Hideyo, I am not going to do anything to her right now. I hardly ever euthanize at all, much less while someone is eating. Most of my animals have died at home on their own. I just do not want her to suffer too much in the end, which is why I asked the vet. I think my cat Buddy went through too much at the end. Hope is getting slimmer, and I don't want to put her through transfusions. I know they are not a big deal in themselves, but we would have to do them at an ER very far away, and she gets so very stressed out, and the process takes a good 4-5 hours between typing, thawing the blood, doing the transfusion, and making sure there is no reaction. Add in the driving and we are talking about 6-7hours. She has enough trouble going to the vet that is 10 minutes away. While she was ok for the draining, she was screaming at the top of her lungs before he started. I thought she was at transfusion level on Saturday and her pcv was 15. I think she is worse now, but maybe, like on Saturday, I am completely wrong about that. I hope so. I will continue to give her the feline interferon. Were Dr. Ishida's patients very sick already when he started treating them? My shipment still has not come in. I have enough from the vial you sent me to get me through Thursday. Hopefully it will come before then. If it doesn't come by Thursday, would you send me another vial? (her dose would be due on Friday). if she is still here, which I hope and pray and believe she will be. Thanks, Hideyo, for everything, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 5:02:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle – I am crying as I read this email as I know how much you want Lucy to get better and so do I ---I wish I had this power to cure all the sick babies in the world to make a miracle happen.. Michelle – don’t think about euthanizing her right now.. she is eating.. and she does not seem to be in pain.. who knows she may beat this thing even if it’s FIP – sometimes, according to dr. ishida’s paper, it takes 2 to 4 weeks to fluid to be gone completely and recover from FIP.. again the challenge is the anemia status – I think that is the biggest challenge her – you could give her transfusions to buy time until epogen starts working.. Just continue to fight with her.. she is fighting with you – if for some reason, if she does not want to anymore.. you will know.. just love her like there is no tomorrow.. hold her and kiss her and enjoy every minute and every second.. she is your baby,, and she will always be your baby and no one can take that away from you… Hideyo
Re: Lucy update
Hideyo, all of yours had dry fip, though, right? Or did one have wet fip? In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:51:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away naturally except one, Olive who developed severe neurological symptoms and had seizures every 15 mins.. Peter died from the liver problem and died very quickly… Naomi died very peacefully.. Rikki died from ARF, Dharma died from anemia/liver, Lizzie died from liver/neurological problems.. whenever neurological problem shows, you know that it’s towards the end stage – It’s known to be.. usually with FIP cats, they don’t have severe anemia but mild.. and organ failures and seizures seem to be more common cause of death.. but for some reason, lately more cats with FIP develop more severe anemia.. which seems to be consistent throughout for some reason.
Re: Lucy update
Do you know what actually killed them in the end? was it not eating, or breathing difficulty, or anemia, or something else? I am just trying to prepare myself. thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:16:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i know a lot of FIP cats, with the wet form, that have been allowed to die naturally at home, so i guess i'm missing the point here
Re: Lucy update
yes, you are probably right. It is possible to keep draining it, but how many times do you do that? as long as they are still eating? I don't know. But you probably are right. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:27:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I understand it, with wet FIP unless fluid is continually drained it will begin to accumulate in the abdominal cavity and begin to squeeze out the lungs so that breathing becomes harder and harder -- and the cat essentially suffocates. I think that is why all wet FIP kitties are euthanized. I may be wrong but I think that is how my vet described it. Keeping you and Lucy in my prayers. She has such a lot of spirit.
Re: Lucy update
With dry fip, it is organ failure and/or anemia. My Buddy died naturally from what probably was dry fip. His pcv was 6 the last time it was measured, a couple of days before. The vet said he should not have been able to stand. But he was on the dex/depo combo shots, and he was literally trotting around the house. I want to put Lucy on those shots. Wet fip is different, though, and does not usually affect organs in the same way. Cats stop eating at some point, and that will kill them if they are not force-fed. So maybe that is what happens, or anemia. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:07:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of the websites say... even Dr. Addie's says all FIP cats are euthanized. I suppose it will get to a point where she will be suffering so bad you'll have to euthanise her? It appears that is the case with every other FIP+ cat in existence. Surely there have been research cats that they have just let die to KNOW what the end result of FIP is... but I can't find any reference. I mean, how do they KNOW it's 100% fatal, as all the websites state, if ALL the cats that have it are euthanised? That's a REALLY good question Michelle! Hideyo, can you contact Dr. Addie and that other Japanese vet (who's name I forget now - Ishida maybe?) and ask them? I don't see any contact info on Dr. Addie's website, but I know you've spoken to her. Ask, if the cat is NOT euthanised, WHAT is the cause of death, and what could we expect to see happen in the end stages? Phaewryn
Re: Rompi
Paolo, On your email provider, can you select a second screen name? I can, on aol, if I want. If you can, you could basically create a different email address (different screen [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) provider). and then you should not have trouble setting up a new yahoo groups account. If not, can you subscribe to a second email provider for a month or so in order to get a different email address? Some may even have one month free promotions. Michelle In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:12:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wendy, thank you for asking. Rompi's surgery has been scheduled for thursday morning. Today's RX showed nothing abnormal, apart that evil thing with the diameter of a golf ball. Rompi has no symptoms, eats like a lion, evacuates like a lion, is FIV-/FeLV- and the vet says that his blood test panel would make happy a lot of 1-year old kitties (rompi is 14). I need INFORMATION, I cannot subscribe to the lymphoma and cancer Yahoo groups, I wrote to the Feline Anemia list owner (I subscribed there maybe 5 or 6 years ago) but NO ONE ANSWERS Paolo (worried/angry)
Lucy update
Well, Lucy screamed while they were feeling around her belly trying to find the place to put the needle in, but while they drained she just laid in my arms and purred. The fluid, which I was told was clear and thin on January 16 and 17 when samples were taken, looked pale yellow to me and the vet said the consistency was a bit thick. He sent some more out to be analyzed, but he feels quite sure it is fip. He filled a small bowl 2 or 3 times with fluid-- I would guess at least 100 or 200 cc's. And when the fluid stopped coming, he said he had reached the end of that "pocket," but she still has a huge belly. He said he did not want to keep poking her all over trying to find the pockets to drain it from, and wants me to just see how she does with that much drained. He did not think her breathing was bad to begin with. He put the 1/2 cc dexamethasone shot into the catheter when it stopped draining. He said her belly may fill up faster now, since proteins were taken out of circulation by draining from the abdomen and lower proteins enable more effusion. I guess that is why some people have said it filled up faster after being drained. He was amazed that she is still eating. I think it must just be all the pred. I asked for leukeran. He wants to wait a couple of days and see what the new fluid analysis says and how she does on the increased pred and the dex that she got in her belly today. He is worried the leukeran might suppress her bone marrow more. He really does not think the fluid is from ibd or lymphoma, as he said he has never seen either create anywhere near this amount of fluid. She was happy to get home and walked around a little, though she looked a little wobbly. At one point she actually ran for about 20 feet or so, and her poor jelly belly swung from side to side as she did. Now she is camped out on the heating pad by her new favorite spot, a bookshelf where she heard a mouse this morning. She has been purring a lot more today, I think because I gave her more pred this morning and maybe she has had some fever and that took it away, I don't know. I so don't want to lose her, but know what Hideyo said is right. I asked the vet about coming to the home for euthanasia at some point and he said he will if he can schedule-wise. I asked him what will get her, as I have never had a cat with wet fip before. He did not know, as most people euthanize at diagnosis of wet fip he said. Does anyone know? Is it likely to be her anemia? Or will something else happen? He said she will probably stop eating at some point, despite the steroids. I do not think I will want to force-feed her, unless she seems to be otherwise feeling good. Right now she is falling asleep. She is my baby. Michelle
taking Lucy to get fluid drained
I am taking her in half an hour. I am really nervous about it. The vet agreed to do the shot of 1/2 cc dexamethasone into the abdominal cavity after draining, which apparently sometimes helps slow the refill time. I think she is even more anemic than on sat when her pcv was 15-- the parts of her gums that were a little pink then are now completely white. She got her fourth dose of Epogen yesterday, but it clearly is not working yet if it is going to work at all. She gets up to use the litterbox, and looks alert if she hears a mouse in the wall, and purrs to be pet sometimes, but other than that just sleeps. I am going to ask the vet to try leukeran, just in case this is from her ibd or she has developed intestinal small cell lymphoma, since the abx are clearly not helping her so I doubt she has toxo (unless the steroids have been keeping the abx from working or something). I fear that she does not have long left. I am not getting any work done or going anywhere; I have pretty much been researching possibilities of what is happening to her and caring for her/staring at her full-time since the weekend. She is my baby, and I think I am losing her, and I was not ready for this. I really thought she just had a URI when she spiked a fever two weeks ago today. I think it is probably FIP (I just realized that they never actually tested her albumin level, so perhaps it is low after all), but even if it is something else I am losing hope that she will get any better. I want to see if the leukeran will do something. If not, I will try to do the dex/depo shots for comfort. Please keep Lucy in your prayers. I know that this should not be a shock to me at this point, having lost 4 FeLV+ cats and knowing that her age, at least 5.5 years old, is not young for a positive cat. But I love her so much, and can not stand to see her going through this. I also can not imagine this house without her in it. She just started dreaming-- her ear is twitching. I really love this cat. Michelle
Re: Please pray for Lucy
I read a summary of the article, but if you have the article in full I would love to read it. Thanks, In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:12:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know it’s scary to see it – but she must not be in pain, just uncomfortable – My first FIP boy, which was about 4 years ago, he actually developed FIP right after I gave him baytrill for some reason.. he stopped eating right after he got pills, and he accumulated fluid in his tummy, he passed away within 72 hours – Michelle – do you want to read an article of the study that Mr. Ishida did.. if so, I can forward you a copy.. I think a draining will make her feel more comfortable for sure ..and they can send it to a lab to find out more about it ---
Re: Please pray for Lucy
She just laid around all day, very lethargic. When I woke up at 2:30 she was walking around the room looking at food bowls, so I fed her baby food and she ate almost a jar. She then purred a lot when I pet and kissed her for a while, and after I pilled her she washed herself. I just upped her pred again. Her belly is super big. Gray thinks we shouldn't give her fluids anymore because he thinks they go to her belly, but the vet had said that would only be possible if she had low proteins in her blood, which she doesn't. I am going to ask my vet tomorrow about draining. She is laying on her heating pad right now. Her belly is so big that she often has to lay in strange positions to accommodate it. It is very frightening. In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:57:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh no.. I understand - -I wouldn’t do it either if I were you.. I just was making comments from diagnostic stand point –How is Lucy tonight?
Re: Please pray for Lucy
Since it would not be conclusive, and since I am sure she has been exposed to corona virus since I adopted her from a shelter, I don't want to remove the amount of blood necessary to test her, since she is so anemic. In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:49:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It can -- as anything is possible with FIP -- but it can be suggestive if all of other signs are present, and usually the corona virus titer is greater than >1600 -- again,, my naomi's titer was only 1:400 and she had FIP -- but if Lucy's titer is very small or none - the possibility of her having FIP will go down siginicantly..
Re: Please pray for Lucy
Yes, that's right. Michelle In a message dated 1/29/2007 10:13:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They did aspirate fluid, though, right? And it was definitely in the abdomen and NOT in the chest cavity, right? Didn't you say it was clear, and not straw colored like FIP usually is, or was that someone else's cat?
Re: Please pray for Lucy
No, no titer was run and now I don't want to take that much blood from her because she is so anemic. Michelle In a message dated 1/29/2007 9:02:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did they run a Corona titer on Lucy? Was it high? Phaewryn
Re: Please pray for Lucy
I'm going to ask the local vet tomorrow. I am afraid he will say he has never done it and I should go to Red bank, which is so far away and stresses her so much. I know they will do it there. The problem with draining is that it usually comes right back. But some people say it takes a few weeks to come back, though most say a few days. Apparently injecting dexamethasone into the abdominal cavity after draining can slow its refilling time, but my vet has already told me he is afraid to give an intra-abdominal injection. Michelle In a message dated 1/29/2007 8:51:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can they aspirate any of the fluid off to relieve the pressure? I'm really behind on mail, sorry! Phaewryn
Re: difficult presumptive FIP case
Lucy had bad symptoms for several days before starting. In a message dated 1/29/2007 3:31:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I actually have seen FOI worked on kitties with pre-stage of FIP – I think that the trick is you have to use it at a very early stage—I also know of a couple of other people who were showing pre-stage of FIP and FOI reversed the conditions – the main problem is that,, if you don’t have enough experience with losing cats with FIP – by the time, you notice, it’s usually too late to use FIP –one of my friends who also lost 6 kitties to FIP, she was using FOI low oral dosage to three of remaining cats who were showing high titers and high globulin levels.. and 3 months later, all of her cats’ titer went down almost nothing and globulin has gone down - I have had a couple of correspondences with Dr. ishida and I know that scientifically his study has not proven with FOI as he did not have a control group in his study,, I also know that he still has success treating his patients with FIP kitties –again, the key factor is that you need to catch it fairly early to start the treatment..
Fwd: difficult presumptive FIP case
Dr. Pederson's second reply... Michelle --- Begin Message --- Dear Ms. Lerner: Yes, there are some strains of FeLV that are not as pathogenic, and cats will live a lot longer. However, there are strains that are much more pathogenic. Therefore, the figures I gave you are an average, but the figures are relatively correct and helpful when counseling owners. As for the fluid, it is compatible with FIP. The large mononuclear cells are the same as macrophages. The cell findings support the biopsy findings, which support the diagnosis of FIP. -Dr. Pedersen At 10:11 AM 1/29/2007, you wrote: Thank you so much for your reply. I am aware of the stats on felv. But my two remaining FeLV+ cats were positive when I adopted them as adults over 4.5 years ago, and both are at least 5.5 years old already. I lost another one who was almost 7 years old and had FeLV since she was 1 year old or younger, and another at 5 years old, and I have a friend who had a cat who was positive since being a kitten die recently at age 10, and another at age 9. I have lost most of my positives to lymphoma, and one to dry FIP. So I know that FeLV shortens their lifespans and makes them more prone to FIP, but I also know that with appropriate care many can live well past what the statistics say. I just don't want to write her off if there is a chance this is not FIP and is something treatable. You asked about the kinds of cells. Here is what the cytology report says: "Cellularity is moderate consisting of a mixture of large mononuclear cells, lymphocytes and neutrophils." They call it a modified transudite. Are large mononuclear cells the same as macrophages? If so, or if not, does this tend more toward or away form an fip diagnosis? Thank you so much for taking the time to correspond with me about this, Michelle Lerner In a message dated 1/29/2007 12:25:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear Ms. Lerner: I can only give you opinions, because I have not seen the cat and I am not your veterinarian. However, I can make a few comments that may or may not be helpful. First, there are things that support effusive FIP. The cat is FeLV+, and we know that FeLV infection is the greatest potentiator of FIP in existance. If a cat has a subclinical (latent) FIP infection, which some cats can have for months, years, or even a lifetime, FeLV infection will almost always activate it. In the old days before FeLV was controlled, about 40% of the cats with FIP were FeLV infected. Second, the fever and the presence of granulomatous inflammation in mesenteric lymph nodes are signs of FIP. The fluid is not typical of the usual case of FIP, but in a small percentage of cases the fluid can be lower in protein and not yellow. You did not mention the cell count - the cell count in the fluid is usually several thousands, but also can be low. the important thing is what cells are in the fluid. FIP fluid contains neutrophils, lymphocytes and macrophages. The differential for this type of fluid would be either some form of heart failure, such as cardiomyopathy, or some obstruction in the veins going into the liver. The latter fluid, however, would be bloody. The cardiomyopathy can be ruled out by an ultrasound exam of the hart, preferably done by a veterinary cardiologist with proper equipment. As for the treatment you are on - none of the drugs have anything to do with treating FIP (although, I am aware of the literature). The pred or dexamethosone will take down the fever; the leukeran may decrease the inflammation, and the interferon will do nothing but shrink your wallet!. We know all of this from direct experience. The problem with the Japanese studies on the interferon is that they also have a vested interest in selling it, and they have done a good job of selling it to vets worldwide. The clindamycin will not touch FIP virus, and it is a million to one chance that the cat has toxoplasmosis. In all cases like this, you have to play the odds. The odds are that your cat has FIP and diagnostics should be directed at ruling it in or out. You can actually do a direct PCR test on the cells spun out of the abdominal fluid. There are good laboratories, such as IDEXX (not Antech) that can do this. You can also seek advice from the vet school at Cornell - they have a good diagnostic lab. You can also send it to the Lucy Whitaker lab here at Davis. If you want to pursue the heart, you should be able to find a veterinary cardiologist in the area. Finally, remember that FeLV infection is a fatal disease. Almost all FeLV infected cats will die of an FeLV-realted disease within 3 years. FIP is one of those FeLV-related diseases. Most are dead within 2-6 months of becoming clinically ill. Therefore, you cannot forget FeLV in the face of all of these clinical comings and goings. good luck, Dr. Pedersen --- End Message ---
Re: feline interferon dosing question-- Hideyo?
It's hard to answer that, because she has been on some amount of pred for almost a year. She was down to 1.25 mg every other day in late December, and her appetite declined. I upped her to 2.5 mg/day and her appetite went back to normal. When she got sick with fevers on January 16, she was eating but not a lot. When I upped her to 10 mg/day based on recommendation from internist per FIP presumption (because it helps with fip symptoms, which mostly come from inflammation which pred takes down), her appetite increased to what it has been. Then it increased more yesterday when I increased pred to 12.5 mg/day. I do think that if I took her off pred altogether she would probably stop eating. Even though she is eating a lot right now, it is almost exclusively baby food. .She won't eat her normal diet, or even any cat food other than occasionally a few pieces of dry EVO. So I think it is probably largely the pred giving her her appetite. When I talk about wanting to increase the pred, it is to make her more comfortable-- more energy, less symptoms from inflammation. Dr. Ishida uses a one time shot of dexamethasone, which is much stronger than pred, so I am thinking to try that too. Michelle In a message dated 1/29/2007 3:13:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Was she not eating before? Pred does increases the appetite, but if a cat is getting very ill from FIP, even with Pred, they will stop eating – or won’ t eat as much as Lucy is eating..
Re: feline interferon dosing question-- Hideyo?
No titers, and I don't want to take that much blood at this point, with pcv of 15. When your cats were not eating, were they on pred? Pred increases appetite, sometimes by a lot. I think that the reason she is eating is that she is on this much pred. Michelle In a message dated 1/29/2007 3:07:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe you should wait – she is already getting lots of chemicals in her body – epogen, interferon, and pred – it might be reaction from any of these drugs – as pred is not really curing anything, but suppressing whatever and suppressing her immune system as well --- if she is eating, I would wait and see how she does for the next few days – remember, Michelle, with FIP, cats will eat less more and more.. and become anorexic eventually – that happened to ALL of my cats with FIP – the fact that she is eating is WONDERFUL news and that ’s why I don’ think it is FIP --- have you done any Free T4 thyroid test with her (sorry if I asked already) or have you done any corona titer test?
Re: feline interferon dosing question-- Hideyo?
She was very active last night-- went into living room, explored under the couch, climbed to the top of the cat tree, and purred a lot. I had increased her pred from 10 to 12.5 mg/day the night before. Her appetite is increased as well. But she is super lethargic again today, though still eating a lot (2.5 jars of baby food so far and it is only 3 pm, plus some dry food). I am wondering whether to increase her steroids more. In a message dated 1/29/2007 2:56:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thank you, Michelle – I appreciate it! I have a few kitties with hypergloublimia and they are on FOI –and would like to know if there any other measurements to determine FIP than a regular lab work – How is Lucy doing today?
