That's a name I haven't heard in years. This program was my first foray into
music technology. I still have the score that I did for my theory class from
1993. I couldn't get it to beam my 8th notes together! My, how things
change...
On 1/4/06 6:30 PM, Richard Yates [EMAIL PROTECTED] said this:
in the older generation you've got programs for the Commodore, Atari,
pre-Mac Apples, and of course the original Sibelius for the Acorn. And
the truly professional programs like Score needed, if I understand it
correctly, working directly in DOS or some such thing.
One of the pieces I
In a message dated 1/4/06 6:35:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Anyone remember Electronic Art's Music Construction Set? Must have been
EARLY 1980's. I had it for Commodore64 (Yes that's 64 Kilobytes, except half
of it was used for the operating system.) But at least it ran at the
blinding speed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/4/06 6:35:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Anyone remember Electronic Art's Music Construction Set? Must have been
EARLY 1980's. I had it for Commodore64 (Yes that's 64 Kilobytes,
except half
of it was used for the operating system.) But at
On 1/5/06, Raymond Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think it looks bad at all! If this is a representative sample:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0793525276/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-3769536-0433605#reader-page
I'm amazed that you could output something that nice on such humble
hardware!
I have begun to peruse Sibelius 4 this week before classes.
Since my FINALE class for the Musicology School in Cremona will include a
brief history of computer music notation, I was wondering if anyone might
have some odd bits of experiences to share with me, particularly regarding
OTHER music
On 04.01.2006 Henry E. Howey wrote:
In short, FINALE has (thanks to prodding by SIBELIUS in particular)
begun
to evolve into what many critics felt was its greatest weakness, its
attempt to be all things.
To be honest, I think it is increasingly becoming its greatest weakness.
Especially
To be honest, I think it is increasingly becoming its greatest weakness.
Especially since it seems to be trying to be a toy as well as a tool. I
wished it would concentrate on being a tool.
I'm hoping that continued success of SmartMusic and also encouraging
results with Finale such as this
Henry E. Howey wrote:
Since my FINALE class for the Musicology School in Cremona will include a
brief history of computer music notation, I was wondering if anyone might
have some odd bits of experiences to share with me, particularly regarding
OTHER music notation software?
I too am taking a
At 8:41 AM +1100 1/5/06, Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account wrote:
If there was some way to give them a whole lot of samples from
different programmes from across the years (preferably of the same
output?) that's always interesting I think. Going right back to
Professional Composer and the
I did my first notation using a graphics program on a C-64. I bought
some software for it, and the following Commodore Amiga and Atari,
but I cannot remember the names of the (awful) software.
Than I used notator on Atari for quite a while.
Switching on a PC I began to use Finale (Version 1.6
Noteworthy Composer and probably others ...
Noteworthy Composer is a big favorite with elementary, choral and keyboard
folks. It surely deserves to be included.
I would also suggest Lilypond because it's free, open license, and graphic
only (like Score). Igor Engraver (if you can find it)
If there was some way to give them a whole lot of samples from different
programmes from across the years (preferably of the same output?) that's
always interesting I think. Going right back to Professional Composer
and the like in the end of the 80s.
Anyone remember Electronic Art's Music
Richard Smith wrote:
I would also suggest Lilypond because it's free, open license, and
graphic only (like Score). Igor Engraver (if you can find it) is an
interesting program.
Lilypond has HUGE potential for the future, but at the moment it can't
be realistically described as an
You might find this page interesting. You'll see the history of the Score music notation software. The earliest printings made from Score date back to 1971! http://www.scoremus.com/products.htmlLe 06-01-04 à 16:41, Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account a écrit :Since my FINALE class for the Musicology
At 05:55 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
Hi all,
I use both Finale and Sibelius. Although the extra steps mentioned here
for Sibelius are exaggerated, nevertheless, there is no way that Sibelius
can match Finale with the economy of keystrokes that Richard is looking for.
If I were faced with a
At 10:20 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
At 05:55 AM 7/11/2005, you wrote:
Hi all,
I use both Finale and Sibelius. Although the extra steps mentioned here
for Sibelius are exaggerated, nevertheless, there is no way that Sibelius
can match Finale with the economy of keystrokes that Richard is
Richard Yates wrote:
[snip]
All of this reinforces my other comment about the poor documentation with
the demo. There is no way to fairly evaluate Sibelius' capabilities with
regard to Finale's. I have written to Sibelius and will report what I hear.
[snbip]
One thing about Sibelius, they are
? sure it will.I'm working on a job right now for a violin cello
duo. In a few places the composer asks for double stop open strings to be
indicated by fingering - a parallel case to your need for two open guitar
strings.
Invoke the fingering text style, enter a 0 for open, hit
Could this be a demo limit?? . I have no trouble dragging fingerings L-R
,
either with the mouse or with the arrows.
These fingerings are set up as articulations because it seemed that
shortcuts could not be assigned to text expressions. If that is not true,
how do you do it?
Richard
All of the above is true. For your needs I would clone a
shortcut-activated text expression and set it up to center horizontally on
the notehead, with the option to precisely place it vertically where the
mouse is clicked (rather than a default position, which is always measured
from the
It seems the documentation with the demo may not be adequate for the
exacting work some of the members of this list do. If you are really
interested in giving Sibelius a good test, join the SibeliusList at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sibelius-list/
There are some real heavy hitters on that
At 05:41 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
These fingerings are set up as articulations because it seemed that
shortcuts could not be assigned to text expressions. If that is not true,
how do you do it?
Hi Richard -
The way to set up kbd shortcuts for text styles is as follows:
File Preferences
By exploring this menu you will see that there is a huge amount of
flexibility in how you set Sib up for shortcuts
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you
At 09:53 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type the
characters that you want.
Well, of course - you're not
This would necessitate typing the number each time
(though you could set up all the numbers in a word menu and assign
shortcuts, but why bother).
Okay I made a 'word menu' with shortcuts to the individual items but can
find no way to use it. The name of the word menu I made appears in no
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit of
text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type the
characters that you want.
Well, of course - you're not always going to want them same fingering are
you? I would never want to have to change a
At 12:30 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
I want different shortcut keys for specific fingering numbers. I do
appreciate your trying to help with this Ken but you really do not seem to
be following what I am trying to do very closely. Perhaps you are not
familiar with Finale.
Richard -
You're right,
Ken Durling schrieb:
You're right, I'm not very familiar with Finale. That's why I'm here on
this list. I'm learning quite a bit. I see now that you want a one-step
fingering shortcut, and it may not be possible with Sibelius. But I
have fingering set up to be Alt-F and then a numeral,
Johannes -
You may well be right and I'm fine with that. I'm not in a competition
mode, and I wasn't trying to assert Sib's superiority - I'm just trying to
represent Sibelius *accurately.* I appreciate there will be differences in
many areas, and this may be one of them. I've always
You may well be right and I'm fine with that. I'm not in a competition
mode, and I wasn't trying to assert Sib's superiority - I'm just trying
to
represent Sibelius *accurately.*
As am I. Remember I am trying to find a reason to switch. I really want
accurate info if I am going spend money.
At 01:45 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Dozens of times slower is entirely accurate (or even understated) as I
have explained. Finale can space bars so that there are no collisions with
fingering numbers. Apparently Sibelius cannot. Tweaking the placement of all
the necessary notes would take at least
On 10 Jul 2005 at 11:49, Ken Durling wrote:
At 09:53 AM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
Thanks again but this does seem to be going in circles.
- The shortcut you describe does not go to a specific predefined bit
of text. It only opens a text cursor into which you then have to type
the characters
David W. Fenton wrote:
Yes, there *is* a big difference. In Finale, you hold down your
shortcut key to determine which fingering you want, then click on the
note you want it applied to. This feels like one step to me, since
nothing happens until the mouse click. In Sibelius, you have to
On 11 Jul 2005 at 0:30, Will Roberts wrote:
David W. Fenton wrote:
Yes, there *is* a big difference. In Finale, you hold down your
shortcut key to determine which fingering you want, then click on
the note you want it applied to. This feels like one step to me,
since nothing happens
All this talk of Sibelius made me curious so I've been messing with the
demo most of the day.
Two questions:
1 - Can I position the Title text anywhere I want it to be? I can get it
to move up and down. But, horizontally I can only make it be justified
left, right or center. It cannot be moved
All this talk of Sibelius made me curious so I've been messing with the
demo most of the day.
Two questions:
You're asking ME??? :-)
Richard
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James gilbert asked:
In Sibelius:
1 - Can I position the Title text anywhere I want it to be? I can get it
to move up and down. But, horizontally I can only make it be justified
left, right or center. It cannot be moved left and right.
You can edit the text style (under the House Styles
At 07:03 PM 7/10/2005, you wrote:
I know Sibelius' marketing department has all the die-hard fans and
notation software novices believing that Sibelius is more intuitive and
easier, but I say that's nonsense. (
I honestly think that really only applies to novice users. For those of us
Ken Durling wrote:
At 06:23 PM 7/8/2005, you wrote:
Can any Sibelius users out there confirm that Sib 4 fixed the bug that
makes octave-transposing instruments an octave off, like bari sax?
Hmm, I don't recall ever having a problem with tenor sax, which is also
an 8va transposer, and I
I downloaded the demo this morning. The first feature I tried to look at was
fingering numbers. The Demo documentation offers no help. I can find in the
menus: Create - Text - Other Text - Guitar fingering (ALT C, X, O, G, OK)
to add a fingering number to one note. As a Finale user I want one key
At 07:03 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
As a Finale user I want one key
shortcuts for each symbol but cannot find how to do this in the Demo with
its limited documentation.
How does one quickly apply fingering numbers to a succession of notes?
You create your own kbd shortcut. FilePreferencesMenus
At 10:03 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
I downloaded the demo this morning. The first feature I tried to look at was
fingering numbers. The Demo documentation offers no help. I can find in the
menus: Create - Text - Other Text - Guitar fingering (ALT C, X, O, G, OK)
to add a fingering number to one
At 08:01 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
Is there no autopositioning of such numbers as there is for articulations in
Finale?
Go to House style, Default positions, Text styles, where you can set
precise positioning, relative to the note.
Dan -
See my response to this thread. Wouldn't you first
At 11:16 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
At 08:01 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
Is there no autopositioning of such numbers as there is for articulations in
Finale?
Go to House style, Default positions, Text styles, where you can set
precise positioning, relative to the note.
Dan -
See my response to
Back in Sib 1.4, I had to do fingerings for a Liszt piece I was
engraving for Carl Fischer. It was an absolute nightmare. This was
before customizable keyboard shortcuts, so just creating a fingering
number in the first place was a multi-keystroke process, and none of
the positioning was
Thanks Ken and Dan,
As a Finale user I want one key
shortcuts for each symbol but cannot find how to do this in the Demo with
its limited documentation.
How does one quickly apply fingering numbers to a succession of notes?
You create your own kbd shortcut. FilePreferencesMenus and
At 10:29 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
set its vertical position. But I haven't figured out what that condition
is. In the meantime I have to position each fingering manually.
I cannot find anything better.
OK, there's a plug-in called Reposition text. I just tried it and it
worked fine.
At 10:29 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
This can get you to the last menu item in the sequence, but then there is no
way to shortcut to the exact articulation or text that you want. There does
not seem to be the equivalent of the absolutely essential metatools that are
in Finale. Indeed, unless there
At 01:29 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
This can get you to the last menu item in the sequence, but then there is no
way to shortcut to the exact articulation or text that you want.
Richard,
Once you create your own set(s) of shortcuts, it is just like Finale
metatools. For example, I can select
At 11:22 AM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
At 01:29 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
This can get you to the last menu item in the sequence, but then there is no
way to shortcut to the exact articulation or text that you want.
Richard,
Once you create your own set(s) of shortcuts, it is just like Finale
Oops, not Find but pitch F :-\
Ken
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Well, most articulations ARE available either on one of the 5 keypads or
via a keyboard shortcut. Can you give an example of an articulation you
could not access easily?
User defined ones for fingerings. I guess you must be able to add these to
the keypad (though i cannot find how), but work
Thank you again Ken and Dan,
Once you create your own set(s) of shortcuts, it is just like Finale
metatools. For example, I can select a note, strike F, and bingo -- a
fermata appears, perfectly centered above the note.
How? Under File - Preferences - Menus and Shortcuts all I see are
At 03:55 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
How? Under File - Preferences - Menus and Shortcuts all I see are existing
menus. I go through Create - Symbol and then see no way to select a
particular articulation to make a shortcut to.
Hello Richard!
Once you are in menus and shortcuts, open the drop-down
On 9 Jul 2005 at 12:43, Richard Yates wrote:
The documentation with the demo is extremely skimpy, as shown by my
having to ask all of these questions here. The real user manual does
not seem to be available to download. In my case, and I would guess
for other Finale users exploring a possible
Next go to Menu or category and choose Keypad F-11
articulations. Choose fermata and assign a key stroke or 2.
Love to chat some more, but I have to go grocery shopping!
Thanks. I also got groceries. Lots of good fruit around here (Oregon) now.
Okay. I am closer in my quest for a finger
The documentation with the demo is extremely skimpy, as shown by my
having to ask all of these questions here. The real user manual does
not seem to be available to download. In my case, and I would guess
for other Finale users exploring a possible switch, this was not a
smart marketing
At 06:30 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
---'Erase background' in the staff style does not seem to carry over to the
articulation.
---Vertical positioning in the staff style does not seem to carry over to
the articulation although I have the horizontal about right.
---Even with horizontal positioning
At 09:41 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
---BIG PROBLEM: You cannot use more than one instance of an articulation on
a chord. So if there is a guitar chord for which I want to have two '0' to
show open strings Sibelius will not do it.
? sure it will.I'm working on a job right now for a violin
At 09:41 PM 7/9/2005, you wrote:
(Actually it is worse than that. The fingering number is
placed relative to the notehead and cannot be dragged to the left of a sharp
sign. I could drag it down so it went behind the sharp and then could not
grab it again to move or delete it.)
Could this be
Can any Sibelius users out there confirm that Sib 4 fixed the bug that
makes octave-transposing instruments an octave off, like bari sax?
I see this one a lot in my students' parts who use Sibelius, and I
don't own it myself.
Christopher
___
At 06:23 PM 7/8/2005, you wrote:
Can any Sibelius users out there confirm that Sib 4 fixed the bug that
makes octave-transposing instruments an octave off, like bari sax?
Hmm, I don't recall ever having a problem with tenor sax, which is also an
8va transposer, and I write for it regularly.
Christopher Smith wrote:
Can any Sibelius users out there confirm that Sib 4 fixed the bug that
makes octave-transposing instruments an octave off, like bari sax?
I see this one a lot in my students' parts who use Sibelius, and I don't
own it myself.
From what I understand, that is easy
On Jul 8, 2005, at 9:37 PM, Ken Durling wrote:
At 06:23 PM 7/8/2005, you wrote:
Can any Sibelius users out there confirm that Sib 4 fixed the bug
that makes octave-transposing instruments an octave off, like bari
sax?
Hmm, I don't recall ever having a problem with tenor sax, which is
At 06:52 PM 7/8/2005, you wrote:
The students apparently enter the bari in concert pitch in bass clef, but
when it gets transposed it is an octave lower than it is supposed to be.
Tenor sax is the same deal, entered in bass clef or treble clef concert
pitch then transposed by Sibelius, comes
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