Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Ahahahahahahah! Beatrix Krümmer-Frau ha scritto: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. +1 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
**Did he really post that? I am hoping you are referring to the grey hairs on Steve's head and not a man on a mission. O.o Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 1:01 AM, Newsletters Bag wrote: Ahahahahahahah! Beatrix Krümmer-Frau ha scritto: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/ profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/ beatrixkruemmerfrau ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
that's a fact :) (not about the man on mission or the hair, but about the air Jobs has, which isn't AIR btw) **Did he really post that? I am hoping you are referring to the grey hairs on Steve's head and not a man on a mission. O.o Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 1:01 AM, Newsletters Bag wrote: Ahahahahahahah! Beatrix Krümmer-Frau ha scritto: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/ profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/ beatrixkruemmerfrau ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On 29/04/2010 23:45, Beatrix Krümmer-Frau wrote: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Bloghttp://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitterhttp://twitter.com/Birikini Xinghttp://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenIDhttp://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Given Jobs health problems, that's a comment in bad taste. I don't like what Jobs has done, but I understand he's doing it for business reasons. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
html 5 has an audio api. you can play sounds. you can show controls like in a video. or not. now there's an honest audio api. no irrelevant things like being able to tell how far into the sound we are. or responsiveness to cue points. or being able to tell when a sound ends. no byteArray operations. or ability to get input from microphones. no notion of channels or mixing, panning, and so on. none of that fancy stuff. just a very simple, rudimentary, 1990ish audio api. now there's the future. perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? ja http://vispo.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Ouch my side hurts. On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.htmlseems that html5 isn't as crappy as some people are making out. On 30 April 2010 09:50, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Ouch my side hurts. On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Its not about health problems, but a metaphor - we will see who/what lives longer! We all are the ones who made/make Flash expanding its possibilities! Make jokes, keep working - We think different! *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Am 30.04.2010 09:31, schrieb Paul Andrews: On 29/04/2010 23:45, Beatrix Krümmer-Frau wrote: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Bloghttp://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitterhttp://twitter.com/Birikini Xinghttp://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenIDhttp://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Given Jobs health problems, that's a comment in bad taste. I don't like what Jobs has done, but I understand he's doing it for business reasons. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Hmmm.. good rebuttal. I am an old Quake 2 fan. But my comment was more because my side did hurt after reading that. I personally invite HTML 5. I remember when I was starting to learn Flash, I thought to myself, Why doesn't HTML already do this stuff? So bring it on, HTML 5, 6, 7 - 200 Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:56 AM, tom rhodes wrote: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/ quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/ quake_ii_runs_on_html5.htmlseems that html5 isn't as crappy as some people are making out. On 30 April 2010 09:50, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Ouch my side hurts. On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/ quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/ quake_ii_runs_on_html5.htmlseems that html5 isn't as crappy as some people are making out. ever tried to run it on an iPhone, or best: iPad ? :) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
i see the html quake is not actually available to play in the browser. and game sound is fairly simple programming. at least in this game. html 5 has a very very basic audio api. it is not adequate for my purposes. in an ideal situation we would use open tools built to open standards. what developer wouldn't prefer that? but this time-based game of life is apparently much more complex than that. the existence of flash and other plugins is justified precisely because they offer many features that simply are not supported by html and won't be for many years to come. it is sometimes said that 'internet years' are like 'dog years'. but development of browser features doesn't seem like 'dog years' to me. give html 20 years and it'll be where flash is now. but where will flash be in 20 years? eclipsed by a newer tool with a code foundation better suited to the internet of the day? and the dev of flash itself moved to afghanistan, set up to fail? ja http://vispo.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
some thoughts, point-by-point http://www.thefieldcomic.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-just-blew-up-the-internet/ http://www.thefieldcomic.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-just-blew-up-the-internet/ a On 30 April 2010 10:46, Jim Andrews j...@vispo.com wrote: i see the html quake is not actually available to play in the browser. and game sound is fairly simple programming. at least in this game. html 5 has a very very basic audio api. it is not adequate for my purposes. in an ideal situation we would use open tools built to open standards. what developer wouldn't prefer that? but this time-based game of life is apparently much more complex than that. the existence of flash and other plugins is justified precisely because they offer many features that simply are not supported by html and won't be for many years to come. it is sometimes said that 'internet years' are like 'dog years'. but development of browser features doesn't seem like 'dog years' to me. give html 20 years and it'll be where flash is now. but where will flash be in 20 years? eclipsed by a newer tool with a code foundation better suited to the internet of the day? and the dev of flash itself moved to afghanistan, set up to fail? ja http://vispo.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Well if you can run a game like Quake II inside HTML 5, then HTML 5 should handle flash without a plugin. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Hmmm.. good rebuttal. I am an old Quake 2 fan. But my comment was more because my side did hurt after reading that. I personally invite HTML 5. I remember when I was starting to learn Flash, I thought to myself, Why doesn't HTML already do this stuff? So bring it on, HTML 5, 6, 7 - 200 Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:56 AM, tom rhodes wrote: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html seems that html5 isn't as crappy as some people are making out. On 30 April 2010 09:50, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Ouch my side hurts. On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Well, it's using WebGL as far as I can remember which by my knowledge not every browser supports yet and it's even less which is basically web-version of OpenGL. Of course, you can then make Quake 2 8)7. I mean all nicely hardware accelerated by the GPU. Neither do I know of Internet Explorer 9 will support WebGL while IE is still a major player in the browser market. Before you seriously can use the magic of HTML5 and closely related specs such as WebGL will take a long while, imho. Of course, it's all exciting stuff! Well if you can run a game like Quake II inside HTML 5, then HTML 5 should handle flash without a plugin. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:26 AM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Hmmm.. good rebuttal. I am an old Quake 2 fan. But my comment was more because my side did hurt after reading that. I personally invite HTML 5. I remember when I was starting to learn Flash, I thought to myself, Why doesn't HTML already do this stuff? So bring it on, HTML 5, 6, 7 - 200 Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:56 AM, tom rhodes wrote: http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.html http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/04/quake_ii_runs_on_html5.htmlseems that html5 isn't as crappy as some people are making out. On 30 April 2010 09:50, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com wrote: Ouch my side hurts. On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: perhaps html 7 will be really good. when will that be? Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
He talks about Flash being yesterday's tech, but that statement makes me wonder if he's ever coded in Objective-C. LOL! Okay, that got me. I'm glad someone else sees Objective-C for the mess it is. Thanks for that. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Havent read the full thread, but i guess this is on topic : Adobe and Apple CEO's Square Off Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen sits down with Alan Murray and fires back at Steve Jobs in latest round of flash fight. http://online.wsj.com/video/adobe-and-apple-ceo-square-off/5C074A32-B7A3-47EC-9B53-E7A8A5A04E49.html mika ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Not to drag out this conversation, but I think Apple doing this is a good thing in the end, probably for both companies. If you've been following the Adobe people on twitter, you see their talk has gone from iPhone, iPhone iPhone to Android, Android, Android (with a little iPhone hate mixed in). I think this slight by Apple will have Adobe redoubling their efforts on Android. Google and Adobe have already been partnering (integrated plugin, swf search, 10,1, AIR, etc.), But think about the product that Android could be with Google and Adobe working together. It means Apple will have to produce real innovation in their future products to keep up. Mostly I'm hoping this is the case because I'm terrified of the computer world Apple envisions: Where computers are close commodity devices, like VCR's, spare you don't own them, nor the software on them. They can reach out and remove software, turn off handsets and features at any time, or simply decided to charge you additionally for that feature. Android is the only real shot we have at open handset OS -- and it really is a joy to develop on (compared to iPhone and Objective-C). Okay, sorry once again, rambling done. Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Jer Brand thejhe...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, sorry once again, rambling done. Jer ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders My turn to ramble, just spent three days convincing my Company that Flash is not dead. -- begin rant I enjoy coding. Period. I don't care about what Mr. Jobs thinks, I couldn't care less about Adobe's response to him. The problems (in order of 'rolling eyesness' [to coin a phrase]): 1. Media Reporters usually have nothing useful to say. Those useless parrots are easy to debunk. CEO / Board taken care of. 2. Customer Apple Devotees These are a pain. The Apple is everything. They keep our company in business, we cater for them. End of story. 3. Developer Apple Droids These are the most intriguing creatures I have ever dealt with. What difference does it make if you create a Flash application (or any other application) using Linux, Mac or Windows. Developers should use the best tool for the Job. If it's not Mac OS X then ditch it. Apple will sell you for pennies on the dollar for profit, so why worship a company that doesn't care about you? This baffles me. You're not getting rewarded for your blind loyalty. [please excuse me for letting some steam off]. I own an iPhone 3G, if Apple doesn't support Flash by the time my contract ends, the device is broken (doesn't work) as far as I'm concerned. I'm ditching and getting one that's not broken. The failed netbook/iPod/iPhone hybrid thing is not even worth discussing. Adobe, port CS7 or CS8 to Linux and rid me of having to worry about the Operating System or the CEOs of the companies developing it. Imagine that, CS8 running on my 64-bit LFS Workstation ... I'll sell my Mac Pro and never look back. Flash is not dieing, it's going to live on and I look forward to developing my media platform with it. Good software doesn't need Mr. Jobs's approval. If he doesn't like Flash, that's his opinion and he's entitled to it. I enjoy using Flash, and as long as it's under active development, I'm going to use it. -- end rant. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
**Whipes sweat from brow** I hear you Beatrix. Time will tell. Karl On Apr 30, 2010, at 3:07 AM, Beatrix Krümmer-Frau wrote: Its not about health problems, but a metaphor - we will see who/what lives longer! We all are the ones who made/make Flash expanding its possibilities! Make jokes, keep working - We think different! *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Am 30.04.2010 09:31, schrieb Paul Andrews: On 29/04/2010 23:45, Beatrix Krümmer-Frau wrote: Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Bloghttp://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitterhttp://twitter.com/Birikini Xinghttp://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenIDhttp://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Given Jobs health problems, that's a comment in bad taste. I don't like what Jobs has done, but I understand he's doing it for business reasons. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On 4/29/2010 10:18 AM, David Hunter wrote: i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders After complaining for years that developers needed access to the raw audio data from the mic, that we are just finally seeing progress in 10.1. The lack of feature support in their tools, the bugs they have had for years with unloading objects, and the performance issues the player has, all make it so Adobe has almost no legs to stand on; for, as Steve Jobs' said: We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. However, although the above is most definitely true, Apple is forcing users and developers into a world with one standard and one figure head to dictate all measures. Plainly put, apple is being too big brother about this. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I see you're trying to be objective, but the crux of Job's bogus argument is it's impossible to make good apps for the iPhone in the Flash development environment, and they're protecting their consumers. Others have pointed out that even if this is true, which it's not, part of the problem would be that Apple hasn't worked with Adobe on making the Player perform optimally on Macs. Plus, the app store has a lot of crappy apps among the 200,000 that weren't developed with Flash; if Apple's concern was user experience, they'd be more selective in apps made available, regardless of how they were developed. And why the selective enforcement of the no cross compilers unless they're originally coded in one of three flavors of C? I'm a decades long Apple fanatic and own stock, but their recent behavior has been spiteful and benefits neither developers or consumers. Jon Stewart's commentary says it all. And today, we find Apple is shutting down LaLa.com, which it recently acquired. http://mashable.com/2010/04/30/lala-shutdown/ This move is the equivalent of Capitol buying Virgin Records and sending someone out to your house to take back all your old David Bowie, XTC, Peter Tosh records and telling it’s OK, you can look through our catalog, I’m sure you’ll find something you’ll like just as much! Apple, meet shark. Jump! Also as others have insinuated, Adobe isn't vested in people having the Flash Player. If exporting as HTML5+JS will perform everything without the Flash Player, Adobe will have nothing to loose and everything to gain: they won't have to promote the plug-in nor provide and maintain downloads for the Player. Adobe moving on is their way of saying OK, hotshot, bring it on. From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Pace [anthony.p...@utoronto.ca] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:16 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash After complaining for years that developers needed access to the raw audio data from the mic, that we are just finally seeing progress in 10.1. The lack of feature support in their tools, the bugs they have had for years with unloading objects, and the performance issues the player has, all make it so Adobe has almost no legs to stand on; for, as Steve Jobs' said: We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. However, although the above is most definitely true, Apple is forcing users and developers into a world with one standard and one figure head to dictate all measures. Plainly put, apple is being too big brother about this. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I think its time to read what you wrote yourself as you've authored some inaccuracies yourself in regards to Apple working with Adobe, the whole flavors of C thing, etc. It's very interesting reading for the first twenty posts or so, but i think its time for me to filter this thread. E. Sent from my iPad On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:59 PM, Mattheis, Erik (MIN - WSW) ematth...@webershandwick.com wrote: I see you're trying to be objective, but the crux of Job's bogus argument is it's impossible to make good apps for the iPhone in the Flash development environment, and they're protecting their consumers. Others have pointed out that even if this is true, which it's not, part of the problem would be that Apple hasn't worked with Adobe on making the Player perform optimally on Macs. Plus, the app store has a lot of crappy apps among the 200,000 that weren't developed with Flash; if Apple's concern was user experience, they'd be more selective in apps made available, regardless of how they were developed. And why the selective enforcement of the no cross compilers unless they're originally coded in one of three flavors of C? I'm a decades long Apple fanatic and own stock, but their recent behavior has been spiteful and benefits neither developers or consumers. Jon Stewart's commentary says it all. And today, we find Apple is shutting down LaLa.com, which it recently acquired. http://mashable.com/2010/04/30/lala-shutdown/ This move is the equivalent of Capitol buying Virgin Records and sending someone out to your house to take back all your old David Bowie, XTC, Peter Tosh records and telling it’s OK, you can look through our catalog, I’m sure you’ll find something you’ll like just as much! Apple, meet shark. Jump! Also as others have insinuated, Adobe isn't vested in people having the Flash Player. If exporting as HTML5+JS will perform everything without the Flash Player, Adobe will have nothing to loose and everything to gain: they won't have to promote the plug-in nor provide and maintain downloads for the Player. Adobe moving on is their way of saying OK, hotshot, bring it on. From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Pace [anthony.p...@utoronto.ca] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:16 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash After complaining for years that developers needed access to the raw audio data from the mic, that we are just finally seeing progress in 10.1. The lack of feature support in their tools, the bugs they have had for years with unloading objects, and the performance issues the player has, all make it so Adobe has almost no legs to stand on; for, as Steve Jobs' said: We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. However, although the above is most definitely true, Apple is forcing users and developers into a world with one standard and one figure head to dictate all measures. Plainly put, apple is being too big brother about this. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Well I hope you're not saying you're taking the ball and going home! Ha ha. Admittedly, I suffer from preconception complex in this matter as I've tended to seek out and agree with information that upholds my desire to see Apple as the bad guy here. I've read all the posts here on this topic carefully, and tried to do so objectively. I'm interested in hearing what facts I've put forth which I've been led to believe are true, but aren't. The Buisnessweek article about how Adobe shifted resources away from mobile is pretty damning, but still that doesn't impact the fact that 10.1 is aimed as best as it can at mobile. What I see now is Adobe actively trying to cooperate with other companies to improve the experience of Flash developers and consumers, and Apple actively trying to sabotage any potential for Flash to compete with the app store. But again, I want to be certain of what I'm relating about this to my coworkers, so I hope I get some factual corrections. I'd rather be accurate than righteous! Thx. From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of eric dolecki GMail [edole...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 9:14 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash I think its time to read what you wrote yourself as you've authored some inaccuracies yourself in regards to Apple working with Adobe, the whole flavors of C thing, etc. It's very interesting reading for the first twenty posts or so, but i think its time for me to filter this thread. E. Sent from my iPad On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:59 PM, Mattheis, Erik (MIN - WSW) ematth...@webershandwick.com wrote: I see you're trying to be objective, but the crux of Job's bogus argument is it's impossible to make good apps for the iPhone in the Flash development environment, and they're protecting their consumers. Others have pointed out that even if this is true, which it's not, part of the problem would be that Apple hasn't worked with Adobe on making the Player perform optimally on Macs. Plus, the app store has a lot of crappy apps among the 200,000 that weren't developed with Flash; if Apple's concern was user experience, they'd be more selective in apps made available, regardless of how they were developed. And why the selective enforcement of the no cross compilers unless they're originally coded in one of three flavors of C? I'm a decades long Apple fanatic and own stock, but their recent behavior has been spiteful and benefits neither developers or consumers. Jon Stewart's commentary says it all. And today, we find Apple is shutting down LaLa.com, which it recently acquired. http://mashable.com/2010/04/30/lala-shutdown/ This move is the equivalent of Capitol buying Virgin Records and sending someone out to your house to take back all your old David Bowie, XTC, Peter Tosh records and telling it’s OK, you can look through our catalog, I’m sure you’ll find something you’ll like just as much! Apple, meet shark. Jump! Also as others have insinuated, Adobe isn't vested in people having the Flash Player. If exporting as HTML5+JS will perform everything without the Flash Player, Adobe will have nothing to loose and everything to gain: they won't have to promote the plug-in nor provide and maintain downloads for the Player. Adobe moving on is their way of saying OK, hotshot, bring it on. From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Pace [anthony.p...@utoronto.ca] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:16 PM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash After complaining for years that developers needed access to the raw audio data from the mic, that we are just finally seeing progress in 10.1. The lack of feature support in their tools, the bugs they have had for years with unloading objects, and the performance issues the player has, all make it so Adobe has almost no legs to stand on; for, as Steve Jobs' said: We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers. However, although the above is most definitely true, Apple is forcing users and developers into a world with one standard and one figure head to dictate all measures. Plainly put, apple is being too big brother about this. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http
[Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. isn't this just utter B.S.? ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I think some of his comments about Flash not being designed for Touch devices have a ring of truth to them, for example, I develop for a touchscreen system and have written many custom components without rollovers. I can't really comment on battery life, web-video, etc. because I do all my browsing from a PC and only watch videos stuff that's plugged in. This morning, I found myself hacking cellrenderers and making special workarounds for Flash's list control in order to implement a list that scrolled when you swipe it. This is not multi-touch, just single touch, but still there is either a derth of components / tutorials / documentation for doing this sort of stuff. OTOH, I managed to develop my own list control in Flash for the Touchscreen in under 8 hours without having to learn another language. I guess I am one of the lucky people - I work on a proprietary touch-screen based system supplied to specific customers and don't have to bend to the whims of the iPhone generation / market forces as much as if I was developing websites and RIA's and one of the 50,000+ games in the App store. Can you call it a game if it is merely a graphic of a pint glass tipping beer? Glen On 29/04/2010 15:18, David Hunter wrote: i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all:http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Funny, Jobs makes no mention of Silverlight anywhere in that article. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of David Hunter Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:19 AM To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
What's Silverlight? On 29/04/2010 15:51, Merrill, Jason wrote: Funny, Jobs makes no mention of Silverlight anywhere in that article. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of David Hunter Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:19 AM To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I think that's a new-fangled fishing lure used for freshwater carp or something. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.ukwrote: What's Silverlight? On 29/04/2010 15:51, Merrill, Jason wrote: Funny, Jobs makes no mention of Silverlight anywhere in that article. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of David Hunter Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:19 AM To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- http://ericd.net Interactive design and development ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On 29/04/2010 15:51, Merrill, Jason wrote: Funny, Jobs makes no mention of Silverlight anywhere in that article. :) If he's talking specifically about Flash, why would he? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
If he's talking specifically about Flash, why would he? Switched off your irony detector today? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I thought it was an elven character from LOTR? On 29/04/2010 16:15, Eric E. Dolecki wrote: I think that's a new-fangled fishing lure used for freshwater carp or something. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Glen Pikeg...@engineeredarts.co.ukwrote: ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
this basically sums up why apple don't support flash Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. in other words 'we don't want you to play flash games, we want you to play apple games which we get paid for, especially when we bring out our iAd platform that will monetise the free apps as well' FUD Don Jobbso a On 29 April 2010 16:20, Glen Pike g...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: I thought it was an elven character from LOTR? On 29/04/2010 16:15, Eric E. Dolecki wrote: I think that's a new-fangled fishing lure used for freshwater carp or something. On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Glen Pikeg...@engineeredarts.co.uk wrote: ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On 29/04/2010 16:17, Merrill, Jason wrote: If he's talking specifically about Flash, why would he? Switched off your irony detector today? All detectors switched off by extreme fatigue right now. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I think his comment was that many Flash sites were not designed for touch screens, not that Flash itself is not designed for touch screens. Even then it isn't really a fair comment since the vast majority of web experiences were not designed with touch screen interactivity in mind. -- Andrew Murphy Interactive Media Developer amur...@delvinia.com Delvinia 370 King Street West, 5th Floor, Box 4 Toronto Canada M5V 1J9 P (416) 364-1455 ext. 232 F (416) 364-9830 W www.delvinia.com -Original Message- From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com [mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of Glen Pike Sent: April 29, 2010 10:41 am To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash I think some of his comments about Flash not being designed for Touch devices have a ring of truth to them, for example, I develop for a touchscreen system and have written many custom components without rollovers. I can't really comment on battery life, web-video, etc. because I do all my browsing from a PC and only watch videos stuff that's plugged in. This morning, I found myself hacking cellrenderers and making special workarounds for Flash's list control in order to implement a list that scrolled when you swipe it. This is not multi-touch, just single touch, but still there is either a derth of components / tutorials / documentation for doing this sort of stuff. OTOH, I managed to develop my own list control in Flash for the Touchscreen in under 8 hours without having to learn another language. I guess I am one of the lucky people - I work on a proprietary touch-screen based system supplied to specific customers and don't have to bend to the whims of the iPhone generation / market forces as much as if I was developing websites and RIA's and one of the 50,000+ games in the App store. Can you call it a game if it is merely a graphic of a pint glass tipping beer? Glen On 29/04/2010 15:18, David Hunter wrote: i know there has already been a lot of talk about flash and iphones/ipads and developer agreements on this list and i don't wish to add unnecessarily or stoke up the fire again but i thought this might be a worthwhile read for all from the man at the centre of it all:http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I would love to see a Thoughts on Apple letter from Adobe. :) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
I would love to see a Thoughts on Apple letter from Adobe. :) This is close enough: http://mashable.com/2010/04/29/jon-stewart-apple/ :D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
this basically sums up why apple don't support flash Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. in other words 'we don't want you to play flash games, we want you to play apple games which we get paid for, especially when we bring out our iAd platform that will monetise the free apps as well' FUD Don Jobbso This is exactly right. It's a business decision - a sound one - but that's all it is. It has nothing to do with protecting the user experience etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Pity it's US only, would have been nice to see, but it's not from Adobe though! Apple have thrown down the gauntlet - it may be FUD, but it's from Steve Jobs / Apple and that's better than any speculation from other sources. I guess I would like to see Adobe be able to respond to this without coming across as bitter about Apple's decisions, tough for a blow to potential revenue streams, but maybe Adobe do need a bit of motivation to ensure their products are slick and stable as well as being pervasive. People like to slate both Adobe Apple, sometimes it might make sense for both companies to listen to the jungle drums and move forward. Micky Hulse wrote: I would love to see a Thoughts on Apple letter from Adobe. :) This is close enough: http://mashable.com/2010/04/29/jon-stewart-apple/ :D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
The problem is that pretty much all of that has already been responded to a while ago. Steve Jobs is only repeating what has already been echoing among people who want to rationalize the fact that iP* doesn't have Flash, like this stupid rollover/hover discussion. If Adobe is to respond to that, they'd been repeating what has already been said my Mike Chambers, Lee Brimelow and others -- preaching to the choir, in a way, since Mac fanatics who already made up their mind won't ever get to that or allow any logic to intrude their argument. Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. Adobe apparently has done so. This letter is just Steve's way to say 'no wait, let's fight more'. In 5 years we'll see the state in which mobile/online UI technology is and we'll see who won -- past the FUD, past the hyperbole, past the lies. I, for one, can't wait. Zeh On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Glen Pike postmas...@glenpike.co.ukwrote: Pity it's US only, would have been nice to see, but it's not from Adobe though! Apple have thrown down the gauntlet - it may be FUD, but it's from Steve Jobs / Apple and that's better than any speculation from other sources. I guess I would like to see Adobe be able to respond to this without coming across as bitter about Apple's decisions, tough for a blow to potential revenue streams, but maybe Adobe do need a bit of motivation to ensure their products are slick and stable as well as being pervasive. People like to slate both Adobe Apple, sometimes it might make sense for both companies to listen to the jungle drums and move forward. Micky Hulse wrote: I would love to see a Thoughts on Apple letter from Adobe. :) This is close enough: http://mashable.com/2010/04/29/jon-stewart-apple/ :D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
He talks about Flash being yesterday's tech, but that statement makes me wonder if he's ever coded in Objective-C. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Zeh Fernando wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. Me too. I don't have the time to spare just now, but if I did, I'd be writing Android apps. I see a whole lot of upside there for Flash programmers. Cordially, Kerry Thompson ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
And here is the TRUE reason Apple wants to kill flash: Apple may charge $1 million to display mobile ads: report http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63S0IE20100429 On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Learning Learning Performance Solutions Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Community and visit our Instructional Technology Design Blog (note: these are for Bank of America employees only) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- Carl Welch http://www.carlwelch.com 805.403.4819 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Does HTML 5 do anything about the basically non-existant audio API in HTML? I gather that the canvas tag was Apple's proposal. How does it compare with the graphical abilities of Flash or Director? Microsoft has not implemented the canvas tag. Is the canvas tag in the W3C HTML 5 spec? And how does the canvas tag compare with the ideas around SVG, which seems like a competing graphical API? In an ideal world, we could use 'open' tools with 'open' standards to create our apps. But what we have, instead, are corporations struggling with one another for business turf/markets. I've been a Director programmer for over ten years. Seeing what Adobe is doing with Director, I have no allegiance to Adobe. Eventually it will be Flash's turn to suffer the same fate. As go these big corporations and their products, so goes my work and your work? Then it's only a matter of time before it all becomes data trash. By no means an ideal situation any way you look at it. I was attracted to Director cuz I could do things with it that I couldn't do with any other tools. Flash is now the more popular and contemporary tool for doing these sorts of things. And it has equalled Director in various (though not all) ways. So I'm learning Flash. But I wonder if it'll all be data trash in twenty years. ja http://vispo.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
The best thing for Adobe to do right now is get flash player up to STELLAR performance, even by Apples standards and then refuse to put it on the iPhone. That would just be funny. When flash is benchmarking html5 under the table, then adobe will have some barganing chips if you will. I dont agree with Jobs attitude but flash could use a performance update on adobe's end. Since the majority of smart phones are leaning towards touch, it may be time to graduate. Not to mention the fact that touch screen computers and keyboards are on their way. We don't want flash to not be able to work on regular desktops. But I hope/am thinking Adobe is already on this one and it will be some time before touch is standard. Maybe add a displays.touch class to the IDE? Is there a way currently to check if a computer uses touch? I am thinking not but stand to be corrected. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Brian Mays bm...@newsok.com wrote: On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
not sure about audio. but here is a good but long introduction to some of the features of HTML 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siOHh0uzcuY . from memory i think SVG is good for drawing and simple interaction, canvas is for more complex stuff with a lot of javascript. I think canvas is in everything except IE. From: j...@vispo.com To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:06:46 -0700 Does HTML 5 do anything about the basically non-existant audio API in HTML? I gather that the canvas tag was Apple's proposal. How does it compare with the graphical abilities of Flash or Director? Microsoft has not implemented the canvas tag. Is the canvas tag in the W3C HTML 5 spec? And how does the canvas tag compare with the ideas around SVG, which seems like a competing graphical API? In an ideal world, we could use 'open' tools with 'open' standards to create our apps. But what we have, instead, are corporations struggling with one another for business turf/markets. I've been a Director programmer for over ten years. Seeing what Adobe is doing with Director, I have no allegiance to Adobe. Eventually it will be Flash's turn to suffer the same fate. As go these big corporations and their products, so goes my work and your work? Then it's only a matter of time before it all becomes data trash. By no means an ideal situation any way you look at it. I was attracted to Director cuz I could do things with it that I couldn't do with any other tools. Flash is now the more popular and contemporary tool for doing these sorts of things. And it has equalled Director in various (though not all) ways. So I'm learning Flash. But I wonder if it'll all be data trash in twenty years. ja http://vispo.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/19780/direct/01/ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Mobile and desktop performance is already above and beyond what HTML5 can do: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ http://vimeo.com/10553088 Touch events/gestures/points are supported by FP 10.1 so I'm pretty sure we'll have a way to see whether any of those are actually present. I'd say that as you get past the kicking and screaming and the lack of Apple support, Flash is in a very comfortable position and bound for a brilliant future. Zeh On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote: The best thing for Adobe to do right now is get flash player up to STELLAR performance, even by Apples standards and then refuse to put it on the iPhone. That would just be funny. When flash is benchmarking html5 under the table, then adobe will have some barganing chips if you will. I dont agree with Jobs attitude but flash could use a performance update on adobe's end. Since the majority of smart phones are leaning towards touch, it may be time to graduate. Not to mention the fact that touch screen computers and keyboards are on their way. We don't want flash to not be able to work on regular desktops. But I hope/am thinking Adobe is already on this one and it will be some time before touch is standard. Maybe add a displays.touch class to the IDE? Is there a way currently to check if a computer uses touch? I am thinking not but stand to be corrected. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Brian Mays bm...@newsok.com wrote: On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
@Zeh Thanks for the links. Good to know. I have investied a LOT of time in flash, as have many others. :) Karl On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Zeh Fernando wrote: Mobile and desktop performance is already above and beyond what HTML5 can do: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ http://vimeo.com/10553088 Touch events/gestures/points are supported by FP 10.1 so I'm pretty sure we'll have a way to see whether any of those are actually present. I'd say that as you get past the kicking and screaming and the lack of Apple support, Flash is in a very comfortable position and bound for a brilliant future. Zeh On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote: The best thing for Adobe to do right now is get flash player up to STELLAR performance, even by Apples standards and then refuse to put it on the iPhone. That would just be funny. When flash is benchmarking html5 under the table, then adobe will have some barganing chips if you will. I dont agree with Jobs attitude but flash could use a performance update on adobe's end. Since the majority of smart phones are leaning towards touch, it may be time to graduate. Not to mention the fact that touch screen computers and keyboards are on their way. We don't want flash to not be able to work on regular desktops. But I hope/am thinking Adobe is already on this one and it will be some time before touch is standard. Maybe add a displays.touch class to the IDE? Is there a way currently to check if a computer uses touch? I am thinking not but stand to be corrected. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Brian Mays bm...@newsok.com wrote: On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Am 30.04.2010 00:41, schrieb Karl DeSaulniers: @Zeh Thanks for the links. Good to know. I have investied a LOT of time in flash, as have many others. :) Karl On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Zeh Fernando wrote: Mobile and desktop performance is already above and beyond what HTML5 can do: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ http://vimeo.com/10553088 Touch events/gestures/points are supported by FP 10.1 so I'm pretty sure we'll have a way to see whether any of those are actually present. I'd say that as you get past the kicking and screaming and the lack of Apple support, Flash is in a very comfortable position and bound for a brilliant future. Zeh On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote: The best thing for Adobe to do right now is get flash player up to STELLAR performance, even by Apples standards and then refuse to put it on the iPhone. That would just be funny. When flash is benchmarking html5 under the table, then adobe will have some barganing chips if you will. I dont agree with Jobs attitude but flash could use a performance update on adobe's end. Since the majority of smart phones are leaning towards touch, it may be time to graduate. Not to mention the fact that touch screen computers and keyboards are on their way. We don't want flash to not be able to work on regular desktops. But I hope/am thinking Adobe is already on this one and it will be some time before touch is standard. Maybe add a displays.touch class to the IDE? Is there a way currently to check if a computer uses touch? I am thinking not but stand to be corrected. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Brian Mays bm...@newsok.com wrote: On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
here is the reaction from Adobe head honcho, Shantanu Narayen: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/29/live-blogging-the-journals-interview-with-adobe-ceo/ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 00:45:26 +0200 From: birik...@hotmail.de To: flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash Steve Jobs will be dead before Flash - don't worry. *Beatrix Kruemmer-Frau* Dipl. Ing. Designer|CEH-LPIG-1 Flash/Flex Developer Network Security Administrator Blog http://www.blog.dieanstalt.com Twitter http://twitter.com/Birikini Xing http://www.xing.com/profile/Beatrix_KruemmerFrau LinkenID http://de.linkedin.com/in/beatrixkruemmerfrau Am 30.04.2010 00:41, schrieb Karl DeSaulniers: @Zeh Thanks for the links. Good to know. I have investied a LOT of time in flash, as have many others. :) Karl On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:28 PM, Zeh Fernando wrote: Mobile and desktop performance is already above and beyond what HTML5 can do: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/ http://vimeo.com/10553088 Touch events/gestures/points are supported by FP 10.1 so I'm pretty sure we'll have a way to see whether any of those are actually present. I'd say that as you get past the kicking and screaming and the lack of Apple support, Flash is in a very comfortable position and bound for a brilliant future. Zeh On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote: The best thing for Adobe to do right now is get flash player up to STELLAR performance, even by Apples standards and then refuse to put it on the iPhone. That would just be funny. When flash is benchmarking html5 under the table, then adobe will have some barganing chips if you will. I dont agree with Jobs attitude but flash could use a performance update on adobe's end. Since the majority of smart phones are leaning towards touch, it may be time to graduate. Not to mention the fact that touch screen computers and keyboards are on their way. We don't want flash to not be able to work on regular desktops. But I hope/am thinking Adobe is already on this one and it will be some time before touch is standard. Maybe add a displays.touch class to the IDE? Is there a way currently to check if a computer uses touch? I am thinking not but stand to be corrected. Karl Sent from losPhone On Apr 29, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Brian Mays bm...@newsok.com wrote: On 4/29/10 2:35 PM, Merrill, Jason jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote: Right now I'm more of the opinion that rolling your eyes and moving on is the right thing to do. I'll third that. I've been preaching at our company to continue to do Flash graphics for our news site. But those graphics are targeted to our desktop users. The iPhone users get a site that isn't built to handle graphics like that. The iPad users get a customized site as well. Now we can say our desktop users have their own product :) Brian Mays ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Karl DeSaulniers Design Drumm http://designdrumm.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders _ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/19780/direct/01/ Do you have a story that started on Hotmail? Tell us now___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] letter from Steve Jobs on Flash
Ha ha http://topherchris.com/post/558594718 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
