Re: [Flightgear-devel] Development of a virtual sports programme
Florian Schießl wrote: Hi, moin ! Thanks for the fast answer, that helps me. :) you're welcome :-) So, that way you could incorporate all information that is required - in case that you should need to use external variables, make sure to also check out the httpd/telnet interface (again: 'fgfs --help --verbose') in order to see how to start FlightGear in a manner so that it exports its property tree via either a web server or a telnet server. (Or even both) Can I change the values of the properties over this external connection ? I think that's exactly what I wrote: you can change/add properties quite easily - just give it a go: ./fgfs --telnet=port so: ./fgfs --telnet=5500 Would start up FlightGear using port #5500 for the telnet server. Then you can simply connect to FlightGear by using: telnet localhost 5500 As soon as you're connected you press once enter and then you'll have a basic shell that enables you to use certain commands, as well as fgcommands - in order to get a summary about what can be done simply type help [ENTER] And you'll see a listing of currently supported commands. You'll probably mainly want to use the set/get commands, though - possibly you'll also want to switch FlightGear into raw mode, so that it does not create any ir-relevant output: that makes it easier to use a script or program to parse FlightGear's responses, you can switch to the raw (data) mode by using: data [ENTER] In order to get a (full) prompt again, you can use: prompt [ENTER] And make sure to consult some of the docs under $FG_ROOT/data/Docs ! Some of what you want to do (XML dialogs, XML panel/instrument design, Nasal scripting, aircraft design) is at least acceptably documented - which is not the case for all of FlightGear's functionality/features, so, consider yourself lucky so far :-) For your project you would most likely have some kind of sensors attached to the body of the pilot ? These sensors will probably feed in data to some computer that processes then what kind of action/maneuver is intended - so you would basically first process the sensory input and then you could for example use the telnet interface in order to change FlightGear's internal values accordingly: set /path-to-value/speed-in-kts 10 or set /path-to-value/vertical-speed-in-fpm 50 Depending on how exactly you want to model the bird flight model, you could also directly feed these values into a FDM - if you should end up implementing that part of your project by doing some C++ coding you could simply access the above property tree paths by using something like: SGPropertyNode * bird_speed; bird_speed = fgGetNode(/path-to-value/speed-in-kts,true); Using methods of SGPropertyNode like getIntValue() or getStringValue() you could then retrieve the contents of a particular node and use these values then for your simulation. So I would first agree on what exact bird you want to model - and then I would probably not try to mathematically model a bird but rather split up the potential maneuver of YOUR bird so that you can feed in the maneuver directly ... I dont need a specific bird. The user should be able to steer easily but still using his muscles. It should be sports after all. The simulation is merely a motivation. Arnt brought up an interesting idea - pedals are pretty easy to deal with, because you could use a simple linear algorithm to determine the speed of your virtual aircraft - also it's probably going to become a lot easier concerning the underlying FDMs if you should decide to model a pedal-driven aircraft instead of a bird, that would actually create lift by moving it's wings upwards/downwards... So, depending on HOW static the outline of your project is currently, you might very well be able to save some time by skipping the bird idea and deciding to model a pedal-driven aircraft, as was mentioned before there was really such a thing and it did even fly :-) You would probably be able to find the general specs of that aircraft on the web, then you could create an aircraft model (3D) and start implementing the FDM logics - that way you should ultimately have to do less coding and thinking because you would mainly only add another aircraft to FlightGear - something which has been done dozens of times and works already quite well. For the hardware side of things you would probably only need some simple old bicycle, where you could simply use the dynamo (= the created power) to calculate how much thrust is created, that value would then need to be converted into the right format and fed into FlightGear/the FDM. Likewise you would only have minimal hardware requirements for the steering part, mainly you'd only need to make the handle also move in a forward/back motion - adding sensors for both axes sounds trivial, too. YES, it would propably be very interesting to meet a confused pigeon at FL350 :-) lol. :) I consider the confused pigeon to be the logo
Re: [Flightgear-devel] a sweaty pigeon at FL350 is a doomed pigeon ... (was:Development of a virtual sports programme)
[OT] Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:50:01 +0200, Florian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I dont need a specific bird. The user should be able to steer easily but still using his muscles. It should be sports after all. The simulation is merely a motivation. ..get evil; model say a Gossamer Condor or whatever these pedal powered Channel crossing planes were called, _truthfully_, including the pedal power to power the sim computer at 300 - 450W or whatever it was. ;-) that sounds certainly like a lot of fun - I remember an expo some time ago where you were allowed to (try to) power a bulb, fan, radio or even TV by using merely pedal power ... Nobody managed to get the TV working, though :-) YES, it would propably be very interesting to meet a confused pigeon at FL350 :-) lol. :) I consider the confused pigeon to be the logo for the software.. ;) ..make it sweaty. ;-) ...at that altitude that sounds a bit nasty, or does it have anti-icing equipment onboard ? ;-) ...of course Erik's penguin could possibly be able to deal with the icing part, on the other hand how do get it up to FL350 - probably only by dropping it from something like FL1000 ? :-) At least we wouldn't have to care for the (lack of) lift anymore, I think a penguin's body would probably make for a good illustration of the lifted wing body concept ;-) -- Boris ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI carrier
On Donnerstag 28 Oktober 2004 22:08, Andy Ross wrote: Matthias Froelich wrote: This case kind of works for the arrester wires. The braking force is just hacked into the gear code. But this is just to be able to test. What would probably be a better idea (at least for YASim) would be to model the braking force as a *distance* over which the aircraft will be stopped. In the real world, they have to calibrate the wires for the exact aircraft configuration that is going to be landing. You would figure out what constant acceleration would stop the aircraft in the distance available, and simply apply that force at the tailhook and towards the center of the arrestor wire. I am talking with Vivian Meazza about that topic. He has more or less own experiences with those wires. He knows much about them and how they are built. I think we will get something well suited. The catshot is actually harder: in real life, the force is at the bottom of the nosegear. But if you apply that to the dynamics model the aircraft will want to tilt backwards as it accelerates. Real aircraft don't do this because the nosegear is artificially compressed and held that way during the shot. Maybe the easiest way to simulate this would be to apply the force at the nose, or some other point forward of the c.g. and above the gear. Yep this is problematic. I think one should apply the force like it is applied in a real aircraft. Take a fixed position of the nose gear strut about 30 cm above the ground level. Then apply the force at this position in direction of a point 50cm ahead of the nose gear on ground level. When this force is applied the nose gear is compressed and the aircraft accelerates. When the aircraft tries to raise it's nose the force will pull it back downwards ... I'm honestly looking for something to get me back into FlightGear development. I can do the YASim integration if you guys have an interface ready for the ground velocity and arrestor wire position values. Ok, great. May be you will get preliminary patches soon ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] GenAirports logic/process
On Saturday, 30 October 2004 07:20, Curtis L. Olson wrote: It does represent a large amount of work and a large amount of thought, and it is attempting to solve a non-trivial task, so it has grown to be fairly complex. What specific changes or purpose were you angling towards? Curt. I'm coding an OpenGL WYSIWYG taxiway app where you can draw taxiways by just creating lines and bending and adding nodes. This will allow me to generate taxiways with directional textures, rounded corners, taxiway markings right onto the runway, hold short markings, etc. Also one can do a fly-over view of the built and textured airport to see what it will look like in FG without having to go through the whole Terror Gear hassle. I was initially going to use/modify genairports but I'm going to end up doing so much of the polygon work in my app that I may as well do a rewrite. In fact I may turn it into a genairports replacement later on. It may take a while and I'm just playing around so don't hold your breath. :) Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] a sweaty pigeon at FL350 is a doomed pigeon
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 08:32:25 +0200, Boris wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [OT] Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 23:50:01 +0200, Florian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I dont need a specific bird. The user should be able to steer easily but still using his muscles. It should be sports after all. The simulation is merely a motivation. ..get evil; model say a Gossamer Condor or whatever these pedal powered Channel crossing planes were called, _truthfully_, including the pedal power to power the sim computer at 300 - 450W or whatever it was. ;-) that sounds certainly like a lot of fun - I remember an expo some time ago where you were allowed to (try to) power a bulb, fan, radio or even TV by using merely pedal power ... Nobody managed to get the TV working, though :-) YES, it would propably be very interesting to meet a confused pigeonat FL350 :-) lol. :) I consider the confused pigeon to be the logo for the software.. ;) ..make it sweaty. ;-) ...at that altitude that sounds a bit nasty, or does it have anti-icing equipment onboard ? ;-) ..hu, flapping wings? ;-) ...of course Erik's penguin could possibly be able to deal with the icing part, on the other hand how do get it up to FL350 - probably only by dropping it from something like FL1000 ? :-) ..naaah, flap a bit harder. ;-) At least we wouldn't have to care for the (lack of) lift anymore, I think a penguin's body would probably make for a good illustration of the lifted wing body concept ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Blender question
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:01:04 -0400, Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now days, I am using a different method. Say I want to model a pentagon: I will load the drawing in Gimp or Paintbrush, and measure the coordinates of the five corners in pixel. After that, I will open 3D Studio, create fiver vertices at the aformention coordinates and connect them with lines... and voila, I have a pentagon. My approach is fairly similar, except that I often use paper instead. At first, I wanted to try tracing, but it never works out well -- instead, I print the three-view (blown up a bit if necessary) then take a known measurement, like the wingspan, and figure out how many millimeters on the 3-view represent one meter in real life. After that, I usually start with wireframe squares and actually set the coordinates based on measurements from the 3-view. It goes surprisingly fast (I start with a cross section of the fuselage, and then extrude it as necessary). All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Blender question
David Megginson wrote: My approach is fairly similar, except that I often use paper instead. At first, I wanted to try tracing, but it never works out well -- instead, I print the three-view (blown up a bit if necessary) then take a known measurement, like the wingspan, and figure out how many millimeters on the 3-view represent one meter in real life. After that, I usually start with wireframe squares and actually set the coordinates based on measurements from the 3-view. It goes surprisingly fast (I start with a cross section of the fuselage, and then extrude it as necessary). When I was working on the C99 flight model and trying to input dimensions into the YASim config file I discovered that gimp has a handy measurement tool where you can draw a line on the screen and it will tell you length in pixels. I came up with a pixel to meters conversion factor. Pretty similar to your approach, but if you have the image on the computer all ready it might save a bit of time. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Blender question
* Matthew Law -- Saturday 30 October 2004 02:49: I'm trying to model some simple aircraft for use as 'airfield furniture' in Blender. I have some 3-views to use but I can't find a sensible way of having them available in Blender to use as a guide. o Create a new screen. (There's a 'combo box' next to the menu that says SCR: screen.001. Select ADD NEW there and call it 4 view or something. o then split your 3D view into 4 parts (right click on the borders split) o make one the top view, one the side, one the front view, and the fourth a free view o in each of the fixed screens select View/Background Image... and select the respective image. You may have to rescale and move in Gimp so that their reference point (origin) agrees. o in the border-right-click context menu disable the menus (No header) of the three fixed views Example: http://members.aon.at/mfranz/blender-4view.jpeg [119 kB] If possible, I'd like to texture some cubes with each of the 3-views and be able to see the texture in Blender as I model. Could be possible by actually texturing a cube in a different scene, and display it in your editing scene. Unfortunately, I forgot how to do that. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Blender question
* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 30 October 2004 15:05: o in each of the fixed screens select View/Background Image... and select the respective image. You may have to rescale and move in Gimp so that their reference point (origin) agrees. Hehe ... as I see in my own screenshot, both scaling and shifting is now possible in Blender. (It wasn't when I started the bo105.) No need for Gimp then. :-) m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI carrier
Hi, Good progress so far. I managed to clean up that pure proof of concept to something more readable. On Freitag 29 Oktober 2004 02:34, David Culp wrote: Thanks for your input. Forward your code to Erik. I will do so. But not before tuedsay or wednesday, I have to leave now ... Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (was
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: Thanks for helping me out on this problem. So far, I have tried: I believe you want to dump the commercial ATI driver for the Radeon9200 i favour of the OpenSource alternative. I realize that I should overhaul the chapter on ATI cards in the manual A typical Radeon9200 works perfectly with the DRM driver from a current (2.6.8/2.6.9) kernel and the DRI driver from either a current XFree86 (4.3 and above) or XOrg (presumably 6.8.1 - 6.8.2 is in the works but we'll have to wait some more weeks). I could 'lend' you my 'xorg.conf' that I use on a customers's PeeCee if you are ready to wait until tuesday, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Blender question
I always do the model first and scale the entire thing at the end. I can keep the gross error to the minimium this way. Ampere On October 30, 2004 08:02 am, David Megginson wrote: My approach is fairly similar, except that I often use paper instead. At first, I wanted to try tracing, but it never works out well -- instead, I print the three-view (blown up a bit if necessary) then take a known measurement, like the wingspan, and figure out how many millimeters on the 3-view represent one meter in real life. After that, I usually start with wireframe squares and actually set the coordinates based on measurements from the 3-view. It goes surprisingly fast (I start with a cross section of the fuselage, and then extrude it as necessary). ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Development of a virtual sports programme
Florian Schießl wrote: Hi. My Name is Florian Schiessl, im 26, I write my master thesis in electrical engineering right now. I have been following the FlightGear project for some time now, and want first to make you a compliment that it is great that there are people working for this great and free project. I make my master thesis about the development of a virtual sports game. The user will be hanging in some sports machine. He can move his arms and feet and fly like a bird. Sensors pick up the movement. He can fly through a virtual reality that is represented on a computer display. I develop the simulation software. I want to use Flight Gear as a basic structure. I have some questions regarding your oppinions what the best place or method for implementeing some features is. I will pulbish everything under the GPL. And It will still be obvious for the user that FlightGear is the basic software. I dont want do change stuff in the source code of FlightGear, so that it is a real addon. But of course, for some features written code could be useful for Flightgear. The property system seems to be very powerfull, but I havent still found out all details. Maybe u can help me. 1. GUI question. I want to have a startup that is in the middle of the screen where the user can choose the scenarios he wants to do. I dont need the menu bar. The user needs to input some dates like weight, height, gender. Can I start FlightGear with some start parameters that would allow that ? It might be just as easy to write your own launcher / operator gui and have it communicate remotely with FG via the telnet properties interface. 2. Panels I would need some panels that show stuff like burned calories or flown meters. I also need to keep some kind of Highscore board. This should be easy with the XMLs ? The xml instrument configuration is very flexible to draw just about anything if you have the data available in the property tree. 3. I need a new flight model, that is similar to a birds flight model. Is there something like it or can i bend one of the existing to be satisfying. You might look at the ornithopter which has flapping action ... otherwise you might just want some sort of ultra-ultralight design where the human power get's converted into a standard propeller. 4. I need an abstract flight scenario, where there is no real landscape but maybe a red floor, a green canyon and blue walls.(the colors were just for the example) Can i use terragear for that ? You could probably just create a simple model of the abstract landscape with something like blender/creator/3d-studio/etc. and then just import that into the flightgear scenery. If you start inside your box, you will never see the surrounding terrain, or you could even disable the surrounding terrain. 5. I need a network modus where two players can fly against each other. Is the network modul already able to do this or do I need to rewrite or enhance it. I would submit these changes of course to the offical source code if requested. I haven't played around with the multiplayer stuff ... I know it isn't completely flexible towards everything we need to do in FG, but it may already do what you need? 6. I need to be able to add objects dynamically to the virtual reality. For example, i plan to have a scenario where the user hast to fly through gates in the right order within a specific time. Is it possible allready just with the properties system or do i need to write code. You can create a variety of model animation based on properties ... you could just as easily animate your scenery and create a list of properties that are used to toggle objects on and off. 7. Is there a collition detection in the code ? I want the user to be able to collect for example coins that hang in the mid air. :) You probably need to write something yourself for that ... (?) unless you can come up with something more creative than I can at the moment. 8. Is there a shoot on each other code in FlightGear. I would like to have a mutliplayer modus where two players can hunt each other down by shooting. (always remember that they have to do real sport to manuveur in the game) :) You probably need to add your own code for this. 9. Can I add a new vrml model that represents a human hanging in some kind of glider. I don't know how well we support vrml, but most likely you can find a tool that converts vrml into something that FG does support reasonably well. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Development of a virtual sports programme
Florian Schießl wrote: Can I change the values of the properties over this external connection ? Sure, for one project I implimented a remote operator gui that could read and set all sorts of FG internal variables. The interface is quite powerful and flexible (although it's not high bandwidth.) Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux
From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (wasAI Carrier) I didn't follow the prior thread title due to too much day work. First, I assume you have the correct version from the ATI website, use the alien package to convert it into a deb and are only using that deb package so that all files are being properly tracked. Thanks for helping me out on this problem. So far, I have tried: - compiling agpgart as builtin and as a module I've got agpgart built in ... check your motherboard chipset choice. - compiling with and without DRM I've got new DRM built in (for 4.1 version) ... check the video chip. Note that these answers are for an ATI 9600 laptop, but the same approach worked for a ATI 9200 video card in a workstation chassis. - enabling and disabling the useinternalagpart in XF86Config-4 I've got it enabled in the file (but it will fail and use the kernel). - using either XF86Config-4 generated by fglrxconfig, or that generated by dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 I generated both, then used the dpkg one as a source of ideas to modify the fglrx one to be more like the way I really wanted it. - removing xlibmesa and reinstalling it I never bothered trying to do that. If you have a file conflict, just use dpkg-divert so that the fglrx version can replace the other. My output from dpkg-divert --list includes this line ... diversion of /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so.1.2 to \ /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so.1.2.diverted by fglrx - removing xserver-xfree86 and reinstalling it Never needed to do that. I simply got everything working with the open source driver, then archived the XF86Config-4 file (for comparison), then installed the fglrx driver package on top, then the f*config. - removing and recompiling the fglrx modules I load the fglrx module using /etc/modules on the line after agpgart. I have the agpgart line in there so that it all still works if I use a different kernel (such as a stock Debian one) that needs it loaded. - removing and reinstalling the fglrx drivers Never needed to do that. No opinions. (There is no enabling/disabling USB loading for DOS in my BIOS) The setting doesn't affect me either way, but is handy to have on. Among other things, it lets you use a USB keyboard during boot. This is the order at which I load the modules in /etc/modules: rtc agpgart intel-agp fglrx Seems equivalent to mine. I think I am using unstable right now. Originally, I installed Debian as Sarge. But I have changed the apt sources to use unstable/main and ran apt-get dist-upgrade. I'm running on Testing, and that install has been for about nine months. Currently, Sarge and Sid are close enough that this should be fine for you. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a Linux localhost 2.6.8 #1 Sat Oct 23 11:48:00 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux Aha. I have been unable to compile a _working_ ATI fglrx module using the source tree they provided for a 2.6.8 kernel (either i386 or amd64). Their module source worked for either 2.6.7 and earlier or 2.4.x series. Of course, they may have provided a newer source tree since then ... Since the laptop has to have 2.6.8 (or a bunch of patches applied), I've been using 2.4.25 for 3D work until I have time to investigate the differences between 2.6.7 and 2.6.8 and come up with a workaround. XFree86 Version 4.3.0.1 Same. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Textures
I decided to do a little pixel pushing today. I've created a bush type texture for FlightGear that I used to replace the tundra. (BTW - isn't tundra supposed to be an icy climate?) Screen grabs here : http://surgdom.hollosite.com/flightgear/flightgear.html Do people want textures like this in FlightGear? Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
Paul Surgeon wrote: I decided to do a little pixel pushing today. I've created a bush type texture for FlightGear that I used to replace the tundra. (BTW - isn't tundra supposed to be an icy climate?) Screen grabs here : http://surgdom.hollosite.com/flightgear/flightgear.html Do people want textures like this in FlightGear? It looks pretty nice to my eyes ... some of the existing textures are better than others, so if people can come up with even better looking replacements, I'm generally all for it, as long as the new texture is representative of the land cover type. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
Paul Surgeon wrote: Screen grabs here : http://surgdom.hollosite.com/flightgear/flightgear.html Do people want textures like this in FlightGear? I like it ! And I think such images would probably be nice to appear within the screenshots section, likewise for the recent 747 livery - it's all about impressing people :-) ...and still it would be good if one could find a compromise to enable people to customize such settings - so that you can choose what kind of textures to use. -- Boris ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (was AI Carrier)
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:51:52 -0400, Ampere wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks for helping me out on this problem. So far, I have tried: - compiling agpgart as builtin and as a module - compiling with and without DRM - enabling and disabling the useinternalagpart in XF86Config-4 - using either XF86Config-4 generated by fglrxconfig, or that generated by dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 - removing xlibmesa and reinstalling it - removing xserver-xfree86 and reinstalling it - removing and recompiling the fglrx modules - removing and reinstalling the fglrx drivers (There is no enabling/disabling USB loading for DOS in my BIOS) This is the order at which I load the modules in /etc/modules: rtc agpgart intel-agp fglrx Other information: I think I am using unstable right now. Originally, I installed Debian as Sarge. But I have changed the apt sources to use unstable/main and ran apt-get dist-upgrade. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a Linux localhost 2.6.8 #1 Sat Oct 23 11:48:00 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux XFree86 Version 4.3.0.1 I have attached the output from dmesg | grep fglrx, lsmod, lspci -, XFree86.0.log as well as my current Kernel Config in a Zip file. ..according to your lspci -v, you have both an ATI card and an Intel 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G] integrated card, and AFAICT, a propeller head driver from ATI telling your box fairy tales on seeing your Intel card. ..lose that ATI driver, use a fresh kernel, they have the DRI drivers, and retry X setup. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
On Saturday, 30 October 2004 21:33, Curtis L. Olson wrote: It looks pretty nice to my eyes ... some of the existing textures are better than others, so if people can come up with even better looking replacements, I'm generally all for it, as long as the new texture is representative of the land cover type. Curt. Curt, that is one of the things that bugged me a bit. I had a quick look at the the VMAP0 data that is on the TerraGear website and it seems pretty limited when it comes to land cover types. Do you only use VMAP0 data when generating scenery or do you use land cover/use data from other sources too? Having a list of land types to develop textures against would help a lot. Also I noticed that the textures in FlightGear seem to be pretty dark. Is there a design reason for this that I need to take into account? Paul P.S. Getting textures to not repeat is hard work and unfortunately I have to remove any distinguishing features like houses or isolated roads which is a pity. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
Paul Surgeon wrote: Curt, that is one of the things that bugged me a bit. I had a quick look at the the VMAP0 data that is on the TerraGear website and it seems pretty limited when it comes to land cover types. It is somewhat limited and low res ... Do you only use VMAP0 data when generating scenery or do you use land cover/use data from other sources too? Having a list of land types to develop textures against would help a lot. Right now we are only using vmap0. If you are aware of additional sources or better sources (especially if they have worldwide coverage) then please let me know. Given my time constraints, I can't say I'll immediately jump on every tip, but land cover is one area where our data is somewhat lacking (and very dated.) Also I noticed that the textures in FlightGear seem to be pretty dark. Is there a design reason for this that I need to take into account? Be careful, everyone has slightly different monitor gamma ... these can shade everything lighter or darker, sometimes significantly ... there isn't an easy answer to this since we have no control over the user's gamma settings or naturual monitor gamma. And adjusting for this at the application level is generally a *very* bad thing to do. Paul P.S. Getting textures to not repeat is hard work and unfortunately I have to remove any distinguishing features like houses or isolated roads which is a pity. Life is full of trade offs. :-) Someone from the MSFS dev team posted a paper on tips and hints for making textures tile while reducing visible repeating artifacts ... I have no idea what the link is, but it might be worth a glance if you can dig it up. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
I just noticed that there are already similar textures like savanna, desert, desert1 and wash. The question I now have is why are all the hills East of SFO mapped to tundra?! I've looked at aerial photos of SFO and tundra is definately the wrong type of land cover. The texture I created comes from textures around Concorde which a few clicks West of SFO. Is VMAP0 data that bad? Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
Paul Surgeon wrote: I just noticed that there are already similar textures like savanna, desert, desert1 and wash. The question I now have is why are all the hills East of SFO mapped to tundra?! I've looked at aerial photos of SFO and tundra is definately the wrong type of land cover. The texture I created comes from textures around Concorde which a few clicks West of SFO. If you look at materials.xml you will see this: material nameGrassCover/name nameBareTundraCover/name nameHerbTundraCover/name nameMixedTundraCover/name textureTerrain/tundra.rgb/texture This means that all material named name are tied to the same texture. You could try to move the appropriate name into it's own section with a reference to your texture file. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
On Saturday, 30 October 2004 22:55, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Right now we are only using vmap0. What would be helpful is the mappings you use when generating the scenery. I noticed TerraGear is quite flexible when it comes to mapping the data types to the texture types. Do you use a script or do you do it by hand every time? I'm busy documenting the land to texture type mappings at the moment so that we don't end up with a mess. Be careful, everyone has slightly different monitor gamma ... these can shade everything lighter or darker, sometimes significantly ... What I find useful is comparing the FG textures with real photos on my monitor. Not all but most of the FG textures are very dark. I also notice that I have to crank up my brightness to 100% when I run FG as apposed to the normal 50% for all the other software I use. Life is full of trade offs. :-) Someone from the MSFS dev team posted a paper on tips and hints for making textures tile while reducing visible repeating artifacts ... I have no idea what the link is, but it might be worth a glance if you can dig it up. I have that article - very useful info. Thanks Paul P.S. Now all we have to do is implement seasonal textures. :P ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
On Saturday, 30 October 2004 23:24, Erik Hofman wrote: If you look at materials.xml you will see this: material nameGrassCover/name nameBareTundraCover/name nameHerbTundraCover/name nameMixedTundraCover/name textureTerrain/tundra.rgb/texture This means that all material named name are tied to the same texture. You could try to move the appropriate name into it's own section with a reference to your texture file. That's weird. Why do we map everything to one texture when we already have appropriate textures that we can use? Let me go hash them up a bit. :) Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (was AI Carrier)
I have removed fglrx completely and use the driver from XFree86 instead. The good news is that I have stopped getting errors in XFree86.0.log. The bad news is that I still don't have direct rendering. Ampere On October 30, 2004 04:11 pm, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..according to your lspci -v, you have both an ATI card and an Intel 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G] integrated card, and AFAICT, a propeller head driver from ATI telling your box fairy tales on seeing your Intel card. ..lose that ATI driver, use a fresh kernel, they have the DRI drivers, and retry X setup. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (was
Sure. Every little bit helps. Ampere On October 30, 2004 01:17 pm, Martin Spott wrote: I could 'lend' you my 'xorg.conf' that I use on a customers's PeeCee if you are ready to wait until tuesday, ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Blender question
Thank you all. I'm now making some progress on my model using the measure, scale and extrude technique. It's not fit to be a flyable model but it will make nice EGNF furniture for the moment :-) Better to learn to taxy before you fly, eh?! All the best, Matthew. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] Textures
Curtis L. Olson writes: Paul Surgeon wrote: Curt, that is one of the things that bugged me a bit. I had a quick look at the the VMAP0 data that is on the TerraGear website and it seems pretty limited when it comes to land cover types. It is somewhat limited and low res ... Do you only use VMAP0 data when generating scenery or do you use land cover/use data from other sources too? Having a list of land types to develop textures against would help a lot. Right now we are only using vmap0. If you are aware of additional sources or better sources (especially if they have worldwide coverage) then please let me know. Given my time constraints, I can't say I'll immediately jump on every tip, but land cover is one area where our data is somewhat lacking (and very dated.) I can't think of a better vextor global data except for vmap1 For the US their is much better data from the USGS for example http://gisdata.usgs.gov/mapservices.asp?CategoryName=Land%20Cover This service has come on line since we designed the Scenery Generation tools http://glcf.umiacs.umd.edu/index.shtml Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI 9200 Direct Rendering problem on Linux (was AI Carrier)
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:39:42 -0400, Ampere wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On October 30, 2004 04:11 pm, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..according to your lspci -v, you have both an ATI card and an Intel 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G] integrated card, and AFAICT, a propeller head driver from ATI telling your box fairy tales on seeing your Intel card. ..lose that ATI driver, use a fresh kernel, they have the DRI drivers, and retry X setup. I have removed fglrx completely and use the driver from XFree86 instead. The good news is that I have stopped getting errors in XFree86.0.log. The bad news is that I still don't have direct rendering. ..and the logs says? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
