[Flightgear-devel] FGFS 2.12 UBUNTU
Just because I opened this thread - let me close it: The PPA works beautiful now - thanks a million to Saikrishna. For details you may see http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20t=20884p=190573#p190573 jomo -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FGFS 2.12 UBUNTU
Wonderful just saw for the first time the complete FGFS-packages in UBUNTU-Synaptik - just great! (I spotted it because it seems UBUNTU tried an automatic upgrade to 10.12 - and failed. So I removed all previously installed pieces and tried from scrap:) BUT sorry: The major flightgear-data-all says broken/missing, although the dependencies database data-ai data-aircrafts data-models look ok Do I need some more things? e.g. Terrasync and/or OpenRTI? Both of those are not in UBUNTU Synaptic. Still a great beginning - many will be glad to see that! jomo -- LIMITED TIME SALE - Full Year of Microsoft Training For Just $49.99! 1,500+ hours of tutorials including VisualStudio 2012, Windows 8, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, MVC 4, more. BEST VALUE: New Multi-Library Power Pack includes Mobile, Cloud, Java, and UX Design. Lowest price ever! Ends 9/20/13. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FGFS 2.12 UBUNTU
I retried again today 15:25 UTC and got emmerich@emma-work:~$ sudo apt-get install flightgear [sudo] password for emmerich: Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or been moved out of Incoming. The following information may help to resolve the situation: The following packages have unmet dependencies: flightgear : Depends: flightgear-data-all (= 2.12.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. emmerich@emma-work:~$ By the Way: I am on Ubuntu 13.4 (raring) including all distributed updates In Synaptic are no more Packages listed with FGFS and/or flight - but it lists simgear 2.10.0ppa1~raring1 libopenscenegraph80 3.0.1-4 thanks for the fast reaction -- LIMITED TIME SALE - Full Year of Microsoft Training For Just $49.99! 1,500+ hours of tutorials including VisualStudio 2012, Windows 8, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, MVC 4, more. BEST VALUE: New Multi-Library Power Pack includes Mobile, Cloud, Java, and UX Design. Lowest price ever! Ends 9/20/13. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FGFS 2.12 UBUNTU
Sorry i overlooked that you wrote simgear must be removed too. I did now remove it and retried - same result flightgear : Depends: flightgear-data-all (= 2.12.0) but it is not going to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. -- LIMITED TIME SALE - Full Year of Microsoft Training For Just $49.99! 1,500+ hours of tutorials including VisualStudio 2012, Windows 8, SharePoint 2013, SQL 2012, MVC 4, more. BEST VALUE: New Multi-Library Power Pack includes Mobile, Cloud, Java, and UX Design. Lowest price ever! Ends 9/20/13. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=58041151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FGFS 2.12 UBUNTU
Saikrishna wrote: Can you do a sudo apt-get update and then try it? Hi - yes -nice trick - i did not know yet. And it even works!!! It is installing now - I guess for a few hours - I will report the result! thanks -- October Webinars: Code for Performance Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance. Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most from the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear voice communication
As a point from a user: I am getting very worried about this discussion about every body has the possibility to setup his own FGCom server disabling the guest:guest account and only accept registered pilot on their server. To my knowledge this issue has been discussed for FGFS very extensively already several times - and it was decided not to do that. For FGCOM I would be against that even stronger - because with FGCOM we want to attract more and more users to use the multiplayer environment - I guess such restrictions will achieve the opposite: - I myselfe would have problems to open again another (or even many!) world wide accessible account(s) - with my data stored by unknown people on unknown servers with unknown security! I guess you all heard about the current security issues being raised right now worldwide (NAS, Facebook, etc etc pp) - and: what would it really help? As described that bad guy can always get a new account - and bad words are not as bad as bad security. - till now I see FGCOM as the ideal tool for multiplayer because of the limited range with many realistic frequencies - but still being able to talk worldwide to anybody! (there is already now a (little) problem having just two FGCOM servers! - How shall that work in future? Changing the server for each multiplayer event? And prior to that investigate which users are permitted? Or whenever you go to another airport? Or country? How do you explain the pilots how to do that and when and why? Would'nt it be easier then just to use e.g. mumble (at least there you can change the group on the fly - many users ask us (ATC'S) already now to use that easy to handle tool instead of the realistic but complicated frequency changes in FGCOM! - etc. -etc And believe me: Doing ATC at EDDF for 4 days a week with 4h each session I know that problem of babies all the way from nice kids being unable to communicate with grown ups up to using absolutely abusive language! There is only one solution to that: Warn them, then neglect them, ask all others to neglect them too -- and most important: Do not even try to discuss with them! Come to EDDF and you will see: It works!! Also remember: We have the Neglect-button in the PilotList - use that also for FGCOM to blank any user out you do not want to hear! And that decision may be kept for each user himself! And it works within seconds - just compare that to the needed administrative efforts to get somebody removed/locked from a server! Please - please - do not kill the very positive social aspects of the multiplayer environment because of a few misbehaving people! Thanks for working on improving the FGCOM - I like it - see how it gets used more and more on: http://www.emmerich-j.de -- EDDF-Triangel Movies! -- Introducing Performance Central, a new site from SourceForge and AppDynamics. Performance Central is your source for news, insights, analysis and resources for efficient Application Performance Management. Visit us today! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48897511iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear voice communication
Hi Clement thanks a million times for taking the initiative for that - i guess I am one of the bigger users and promoters for FGCOM since a long time - and waited very long for such a solution. Just one point: Could it be possible to start 2 instances of FGCOM in the background (just with different ports) and thus be able to switch between those two from within FGFS? We once had an additional panel in FGFS to switch between two instances of FGCOM (uncontrolled design status only i believe - but it worked fine! And helps a lot if you need to switch during start/landing between Twr/Gnd) (Wolfram Wagner wolf...@wagnerw.de) is doing that in his OpenRadar - and it works fine.) A second point: During our ATC-events the FGCOM always goes into a hang after some time of usage - so we have to restart FGCOM (after somebody tells you about the problem!). If you then use FGCOMGUI that is fine with its Stop/Start buttons -- if you just work FGCOM that is a bigger effort! So please: Could there be a restart-button (just in case)? thanks again jomoATC -- How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: 1. A cloud service to automate IT design, transition and operations 2. Dashboards that offer high-level views of enterprise services 3. A single system of record for all IT processes http://p.sf.net/sfu/servicenow-d2d-j ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Add/Set properties to/in MP Protocol
Just my dime to it, as the regular ATC at EDDF (+triangle): It is correct: A (nearly) realistic ATC'ing is only possible with FGCOM - and a nice effect of ATC'ing is, that people visiting us more often mostly switch to FGCOM -- except girls: Obviously we need a Synthesizer that can transform girls voice to male!! As an ATC you endure already a lot of bad language - for a girl it just seems to be not advisable at all to reveal that they are girls!!! But to get people convinced to use/install FGCOM you first have to attract them - and for that you need MPchat. Also you need it to contact all pilots passing by in a normal, playing, non controlled, standard FGFS mode! You will never get ALL pilots (newbies or not) to switch frequencies every few minutes to make sure they notice an ATC trying to get their attention! Pilots do not do that in the real world either! So we do need MPchat - at least to tell those fun-pilots that there is an ATC and what is the FGCOM-frequency!! So I would not change the MPchat-mode of operation - even so it truly is a real pain when in the triangle up to 4 ATCs are talking to pilots being in MPchat-range of all 4 ATCs. On the other hand it is the very best propaganda for FGCOM. An even better propagation would be the integration of FGCOM-CODE into the FGFS release -- why can only OSX do that? All the best for FGCOM/MPchat/FGFS in the NewYear and to all of you jomo -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. ON SALE this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_123012 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding an R/C pilot view
I am not sure I understand what you are trying - but: -we use something like that in ATCing -- keeping Target in view -- zooming -- relocating tower etc. -- saving and retrieving settings You may try my test ATC-ML model. Download from http://emmerich-j.de/FGFS/ATC-ML.zip see inside the description README.pdf and the model-nasal. joe On Sun, 2012-03-04 at 14:44 +1030, Ian Dall wrote: On Fri, 2012-03-02 at 12:39 -0600, Curtis Olson wrote: Hi Ian, If you wish to set your own tower position, it's pretty straight forward and can be done manually or via nasal or probably a few other mechanisms. By default flightgear will set the tower position to the nearest airfield, so to disable that, set: /sim/tower/auto-position = 0 Then you can set /sim/tower/longitude-deg, /sim/tower/latitude-deg, and /sim/tower/altitude-ft Ah, my significant effort comment was more to do with making an R/C Flying Field as an airport than with tweaking the tower position. Also people might not want the list of recognised airports cluttered up with fake airports. What I am trying to a achieve is an interface a kid can operate with no more difficulty than selecting a view (and preferably automatic). Manually figuring out what latitude and longitude will give an offset of a few meters in the right direction is definitely in the too hard basket. The locate tower with a mouse click suggested by Gijs is closer to the mark (though the link to the script doesn't work for me). Anyway, the point is not so much how to implement the right view, as how the user should invoke it. A view with the right characteristics seems to be the best solution. An alternative, which you seem to suggest, would be to customise the existing Tower View. But to achieve the ease of use I was looking for would need some additional menu, available when in Tower View, which would allow it to be customised and for those customisations to be saved. For RC views, you may also wish to play around with auto-zooming -- either to help keep the aircraft large enough to see, or help keep the horizon in view -- either can be useful at times with RC flying. Good point. I had though of (but not implemented) the keep the aircraft large enough aspect but not the keep horizon in view one. Actually I have just found your forum comment on this exact issue: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49p=151251 I assume one would implement auto-zooming by adding nasal update methods in view.nas. There is no existing support? As I said, I have an initial implementation and I am happy to do some more work, perhaps adding an auto-zoom function. What I would like to know is whether this is likely to be adopted. If there is a feeling that we have enough views, or that R/C is out of scope for FlightGear then I'll probably just keep it as a local hack. Regards, Ian -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Web 2.0 paradigms (was: New styled FGFS--Manual)
On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 12:06 +0200, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote: Naturally, LaTeX is not some click-it tool, it's a powerful and flexible tool, and so it must be learned. Which is work, and that's not well-taken in the shiny Web 2.0 world, so... the digital natives can't do it. They have learned to use the things that are easy to use and they've learned to demand easy tools and easy information snippets, but the majority of them has no real concept of what's underneath all the infrastructure. My pretty consistent experience is that the closer you get to where information is actually produced or where work is actually done, the less fancy the tools are on the outside. Case in point - we're writing on a mailing list here which is technology from 20 years ago - but it does the job well... So, I prefer to do my studies 'the old way'. Not because I would be averse to technology or unable to learn anything new (after all, I did learn to use GLSL just by reverse-engineering shaders others have written and by trial and error when I felt I needed it), but because I understand 'the new way' all too well and have concluded that replacing the somehwat uncomfortable real thing with the confortable illusion of it is not a good idea. This was just the end of a long and detailed discourse about learning and writing and thinking. I believe I can take that as a short summary - pinpoint pretty well our different views. I assure you I have read the complete discourse several times -- but even now I am not sure where there is my standing between the digital natives, the scientists or experts or scholars or whatever During all my productive life I was just a hard working guy being payed for developing new things that should find a market-place and/or find solutions for problems popping up in the real, technical, mostly computer oriented, very competitive, engineering world. So please forgive me, if I sometimes talk a little bluntly when trying to make a point. Actually I wonder a little why you accept using a modern tool like LaTeX being just 20 years old - while we all learned that the optimum scholar-environment was developed by the old Greeks (to my knowledge without any computers and/or LaTeX) -- after that we never had such a development of basic wisdom as during that time! So actually we should do like them: 1 Prof, 2 Students, and walking and talking and thinking and... Well - (to some extend) that was meant as a joke - but seriously: Did you ever consider how fast the environment changes today - for every human being in any kind of doing? And how fast the tools change that you can use to develop and deploy new ideas or to evaluate the basics? ~50 years ago: I was a Student and was not even allowed to use a hand-held calculator - my Profs insisted on using slide-rulers and they checked that we calculated with a deviation better then 10% (but definitely bigger 1% - or you raised suspicion of cheating!). ~40 years ago: I joined into the BIG (blue)-Computer-World (System/360) and had to input my ingenious inventions by punching little carbon cards -- hand-carry those in boxes to the Data-Processing-Center -- and retrieve them the next morning with many many meters of Chain-Printer output. ~30 years ago: PCs and DOS (1981) became available for personal use - and printers learned to print condensed and enlarged -- wonderful: We could define headers and comments! (in March 1981 I bought an Apple II for 3.130,-$ and enjoyed learning to write an own word-program in Microcode). ~25 years ago: We entered the wonderful world of MS-Word (first release 1983) -- parallel to that also began the wonderful world of Post-Script printers! i.e. first time you could print something worth being read! But it also produced quit some headaches because of drivers, money, knowledge, incompatibilities, etc.! ~20 years ago: Those wonderful PDF-files were introduced - we now could even transfer documents from one PC to another - even with different Operating Systems and/or different printer capabilities! That was also when LaTeX was developed - for high quality and quantity printing. (And according to Wikipedia: LaTeX is widely used in academia). also 1991 Linux had it's first appearance etc. Believe me: I do understand that someone does not want to change his tools every couple of years - just about nobody wants to do that and really nobody needs to -- unless he is in a competitive environment! For sure FGFS is not depending on market shares - but somewhere inside I guess every developers would like to be better than the others! Can you really imagine the existence of the FGFS over a longer time-frame without all the new communication and development tools that were implemented in recent years and will continue to change rapidly - even after LaTeX? Should we, as a worldwide distributed engineering team not always consider new developments? Those new tools will not have any effect onto the contents of any
Re: [Flightgear-devel] New styled FGFS--Manual --2
On Tue, 2012-02-28 at 14:28 +, Stuart Buchanan wrote: The main thrust of your proposal is to change the current process, which can broadly be described as: Latex - PDF/HTML to one where you have Wiki - HTML AFAICT , we gain: - easier editing for those not familiar with Latex - probably more contribution as it's easier to edit - cross-referencing between completely separate documents But we lose - the ability to produce a nice hardcopy manual, - real control over the content - anyone can edit the source. - proper version control (how do you differentiate between what is relevant to 2.6.0 and 2.4.0?) etc.. Stuart, thank you very much for the detailed response to my proposal - and I certainly will revisit those items again in the near future. But since my first proposal, there are some new developments popping up, which I need to evaluate first in more detail: 1) I believe there is no harm when there is a German version in the WIKI - that will definitely not become the authoritative raw source - and thus may develop into a pure user-manual, written for and by users. Without Engineering being responsible for that (but of course they have the same privileges to change like any user). 2) George Patterson did a good job challenging me as devils advocate, but he also mentioned references to the new developments in Mediawiki's extensions. In the meantime I did some (theoretical) studies on those and it seems that with http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Collection and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PDF_Writer we actually can - create the Manual in small pieces (== unique wiki pages) - Collect any wanted wiki-pages in a Book, still inside the wiki - convert that into a PDF -- including page-numbers and a real Index at the and! In addition each user could print that book any time using e.g. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikis_Go_Printable and http://pediapress.com/ for himself. Of course he also has to pay for himself -- that seems to amount to about 20$ for 200 pages, inclusive binding, hardcover, etc. Wouldn't that be a nice Xmas-present for FGFS-freaks?) So far the theories -- I will try to challenge that with the German Manual. I suggest to wait for the results of that test and then revisit the opportunities we have. I hope that is acceptable for all of us - again: I will not touch the authoritative raw source. Thanks and regards joe -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] New styled FGFS--Manual
I was surprised that this shift in Paradigms has such a big handicap to be considered for future developments. And if you believe you are old-fashioned, how about a 70 year old guy that started in Computer Development in 1970, and whose big boss predicted: I think there is a world market for maybe five computers. (Thomas Watson, president of IBM, 1943!) You may have some more laughs on http://www.pcworld.com/article/155984/the_7_worst_tech_predictions_of_all_time.html). Thus let me comment on the most controversial replies out of my sight: I admit: Also I still read my Newspaper in hardcopy during breakfast - but for more details I follow the advise (or QR-code) inside the daily Newspapers or TV-news to look up details on their homepage. And surely a professional designer must study lots of hardcopy books (and pay lots of money for those!) - but I do not believe that nowadays any PC-USER of a hobby-product (may he be high or low skilled) will go to a Public- or University-Library for details! (Remember: We talk about a getstart for a hobby - not a Masters-Degree in...). And I am pretty sure that not many users of FlightGear print the getstart.pdf - and they will do so even less in the future! And even if it gets printed, it is printed on standard PC-Printers! Or can I buy that book anywhere with a superior Print-Quality? And do I get a printed update for new versions? (Now every 6 month?) Did you notice that most products you buy today, do not have a real User-Manual any more - but tell you an Internet-Address to look it up? (A modern way to avoid the law to provide those manuals in the national language!) Anyhow: Did you ever try e.g. (with Firefox 10.0.2) http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:_Using_QGIS_and_satellite_pictures: -- mouse-click File -- Print (or Print Review) and compare that to the getstart.pdf? Do you see a significant difference in printing/reading quality? I would support the need for an authoritative raw source - if there is the manpower to maintain it! - over decades? It surely would be a good reference for all upcoming versions. I admit: Page-Referencing (and especially the old style Indexing) is a problem for HTML -- if reading hardcopy! In the reverse it is impossible to reference between multiple PDF-documents to unique text-positions! So neither approach is the Golden Egg in a mixed environment. I tried to compromise for that with: Smaller books (so headers are enough - no real need for page-numbers). The amount of cross-referencing may have some negative side effects, when reading top to bottom and jumping to each and every reference - but surely it is extremely positive having the possibility to jump to more details (when wanted/needed) and directly return to the place you were -- all of that with two mouse-clicks instead of wetting your fingers and search through lots of paper-pages!). In addition those smaller books with a lot of referencing ensure that each subject needs to be described only in one chapter - thus changes have to be updated only once - and not in several books and/or chapters. Especially the aspect of controlling changes promotes the use of WIKI, because whoever is concerned can set a mark to be notified about any changes made by anybody - and can delete or correct changes made -- see the history options in the FGFS-wiki. So you may have lots of observers! To the end: I was surprised not seeing any comments to the problem of multi-lingual support - which was the starting point for this controversial work of mine. I am sure nobody explicitly wants to restrict FlightGear just to people being able to read and write English. But I guess this point is an unsolved question for todays getstart.pdf. So I guess there is no problem if I just input my German version into the FGFS-WIKI - not as an authoritative raw source - but hoping it may help some other Tongues for their translations. joe -- Virtualization Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] New styled FGFS--Manual
Congratulation to all of you having worked hard on getting the 2.6 out. So pls let me come back to my proposal for a different style of the FGFS-Manual. For several month now I made many tests with LaTeX, LyX, basic PDF, etc. - but was not able to achieve with those what I am proposing: -- splitting up the ever growing pdf-file getstart into smaller books, totaling a growing contents with increasing referencing between specialized chapters. Thus achieving a BASE from which users can develop their skills. -- make use of the modern art of on-line reading/studying! e.g.: Jumping between the books to any given place inside and outside the book! Thus achieving the oposit of todays Indexing. Not searching in the Index to find something in the book (that you can do much more efficient with the standard on-line Find-utilities) - but jumping from any place inside the books to other places for advanced and/or common explanations/informations. Thus avoiding the need of describing many things many times (and forget to change many places when a change is needed!). Why shouldn't we, as the promoters of the most modern style of designing, not also make use of the most modern style of reading/studying/updating manuals, dictionaries, newspapers, etc.? -- stimulate translations! Consider that this Manual will not be used just for highly educated professionals that mostly do speak English - but for common users of all Nationalities, all stages in education, etc. We definitely do need to attract those to participate. As we accept that any professional can participate in the design, we should also trust our users to generate and maintain their manuals by themselves! FGFS, FGFS-wiki, Wikipedia, Linux, etc. etc. -- they all proved that it works! -- Use common tools. Most kids today learn how to generate a Homepage and use html - while LaTeX (and similar) needs some more unique skills/environments/procedures. It is streamlined for the use in publishing houses/departments - with the need for a so called corporate identity. But that identity is also achievable today via HTML (CSS) -- see e.g. the articles inside todays FGFS-wiki! -- Avoid the dependency on uniquely skilled persons: What happens when the private priorities of those few (and thus often overloaded volunteers) will change? In addition: A detailed proofreading of todays getstart takes weeks - while thousands of users will find errors and improvements without any scheduled task - just by using it! But then an administrative procedure for corrective actions might not really convince them to become active! Please let me know if you have an issue with that - otherwise I will start to setup FGFS-wiki versions. Then we may have two versions - which I believe could develop into different flavors: One more users-taste and one more engineering-needs. I see my personal preferences more on the user/customer aspects - and hope the engineering environment forgives me for that! If you are interested to know more about the WIKI pros/cons, I suggest: http://wikieducator.org/Wikieducator_tutorial/What_is_a_wiki/Advantages_and_disadvantages See also my current HTML-version on http://www.emmerich-j.de/S6.html (having now about 1000 hits per month after 2 month on-line). rgds joe -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Eftychios I am not sure if you are a FlightGear pilot yourself and want to use it within the FGFS Multiplayer environment - or if that is planned to be a standalone-tower were somebody exercises tower operations by himself with some AI-models/participants. For both scenarios there are many applications available. Roland pointed already out that there are several around even within FGFS - and even more and much more specialized in VATSIM. But I am not sure what you plan and who are the players (or were you get them or do you use AI-players). If it shall be in a FGFS multilayer environment you are invited to our regular sessions in EDDF (see http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/ . And watch what we can do and actual do with the ATC-ML and what you think is missing -- but especially also how you find people to participate and follow your given situations - sound as if you require already quite some piloting skill! regards joe (ATCjomo) -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FGJS cannot calibrate Saitek Flight Yoke
Hi Muad just to make sure: You know the wiki http://wiki.flightgear.org/Joystick ?? I did use that to set/reset my Saitek X52 with no problems. joe -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-d2d-oct ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 11:46 +0300, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote: LaTeX is not a word processor, it is a professional typesetting tool. I don't know about fiction books, but the vast majority of science books you can buy is done with LaTeX. If you know how to work with it (rather than against it), the layout you can get is orders of magnitude better than anything else. I fully agree with what you are saying. I even would add as reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX http://www.latex-project.org/intro.html They all fully support what you are saying. bUT did you notice that nobody is mentioning support for Web-pages, Softcopies, wikis, references, distributed-engineering, etc.? I am sorry that some people seem to believe I am against LaTex and/or a controlled release processes - I am not! I just ran into the fact, that the present manual is not as much in use as I believe it earned to be and/or it should be. So I try to find a way how to improve that! Doing so I guess we need to evaluate the aspects of all the actors in that process: 1) Writer, Poet, Engineering, Marketing, etc. Most of those surely do not want to be bothered with the final looks of their design - but surely some do (and then run into problems). 2) Publisher and Corporate identity They definitely will support to use LaTex 3) Maintainer One of the questions I raised but did not yet get an answer for: How can all the many developers input there updates into the existing document? And how often? (We have the GIT for the design - but descriptions for the users in real time updates?) Do we have a publishing department in FlightGear? (I know there is an excellent work done right now - but how is the future? And how can we reduce the workload and turn-around times for that?) 4) Users and/or customers Those surely will require very different styles of documentation: - A university-Prof studding the possibilities of FlightGear - The FAA, that should be convinced to issue some approvals - other engineers that cooperate within FlightGear - real pilots that want to train - grown ups - or kids that want to play (and which we maybe able to convince to start simulating in FlightGear instead of playing killing-games) And guess where my priorities are! Still I am looking for a compromise for most of those actors! Very simply said: Look at the opening question of this thread, and tell me what you would answerer! (Maybe even considering that question came from your own kid or friend or whatever!). Would you point to the existing manual for an answer? Did you, yourself read the complete manual at least once? I did not see any answers to these issues in this thread -- and that is my big concern! -- I do not care if one of the tools used will be LaTex or something else! And let me assure you: I fully understand that FlightGear is much more then a game and thus it is no Kids-Stuff - but I would like to use it to convince people to use it and grow with it. For the time being I am interested to see how my proposed Manual gets out of this process, how long that takes, and how it gets accepted by the customers (and the community). In todays environment! joe -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
Hi Martin as you probably have seen, I am eager to help in supporting the update of the Manual. Please see some questions to your remarks: On Mon, 2011-09-12 at 10:33 +, Martin Spott wrote: Personally I doubt that importing HTML is worth the effort, and I'll try to let you know, why :-) Upon importing whichever structured format, LyX (or whichever processor) will try to make a sense out of the current formatting and in most cases you'll have to fine-read the output anyway in order to make it fit the style of the current getstart manual. Thus, instead of spending effort on removing obsolete formatting from the import, it would be easier just to dump the HTML as plain text and add LaTeX formatting only where appropriate. Thanks for the info - that confirms what I noticed: After Installing and doing some tests with LaTex and LyX I did not find a feasible way to import the newly designed appearance - seems you really have to just extract everything except the plain text and and build it up new - without the support of a WYSIWYG-system! And if you wanted to change the appearance of the manual you first would have to build up new predefined structures (comparable to the CSS-Structures in HTML). That sounds like a whole lot of work - and I wonder how I or anybody else can help with that! Is there a description of that process? Could several people cooperate in changing the contents as well as the looks of it? I am eager to learn how that can be done, in what time, and how to maintain it in the future! I still think we should not stress people's sympathy by growing the PDF too large. If the current setup grows too large, there'll be the option to split the PDF into different files and just have people start with the intro and the summary. Internal HTML symlinks will do the take care about referncing the remaining parts. I agree, that very big PDF-files are not the best solution, based on download and response-times. That is one of the reasons, why even the proposed HTML has 10 parts - which are all linked together and which all have References between them all, so that it looks like 1 piece. I hope that LaTex can do something similar - and then even add a Word-Index to the end, that covers all parts in one index! In todays computer-technology I really would hate to tell anybody: We want to tell you everything about the system, but we cannot because we are limited by the file-size! I see the future user/reader of that manuals as customers whom we want to sell something (Or better: Beg them to to read it!). Agreed ! In fact, it's up to everyone here to create and submit better images, screenshots. Basically this is a the communit gets what they deserve-situation ;-) Is there any description of how that process works? Can anybody change/update or whatever into the source (e.g. comparable to the WIKI-process, but limited to a unique group)? Or is it more sent to ..., and somebody will work it in (from time to time)? regards joe -- BlackBerryreg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA Learn about the latest advances in developing for the BlackBerryreg; mobile platform with sessions, labs more. See new tools and technologies. Register for BlackBerryreg; DevCon today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-devcon-copy1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
Hi Stuart Thanks - that offer was a nice surprise Surely I want to work together with all of you to get the best, up to date Manual/PDF possible. And surely I am highly interested in integrating what I have into any company-wide release system. joacher@gm.. now proposed the link to www.lyx.org and I had a short look: - seems you can even import HTML into that system - and sftw.-download for UBUNTU is available (ver.2.0.0) So I will have a closer look next week and try what I can do with it. In parallel I am still in the final review of my proposal (wording, spelling, comparing EN/DE, links, etc) - hope to have that done within the next 2 weeks - and surely you can help improving - I will check how to grant excess (either on my UBUNTU-cloud or homepage). Pls see my answers to your points inserted in the following. I am positive we can arrange a common understanding and work-line. I am looking forward to it! joe On Sat, 2011-09-10 at 00:05 +0100, Stuart Buchanan wrote: On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:45 PM, I wrote: More comments when I get the time once I'm back. Hi Jomo, I finally got the time to look at your work in detail. I think there's a lot of really good work here, and it obviously represents a lot of time and effort. Thanks again. I _really_ like a number of things you've done with the structure. The following comments look at what you've done as a contrast to the existing Manual, and with a view to changing The Manual: 1) The Briefing section (which covers some of the Take-off and In-Flight sections of the existing manual) looks like it is designed to get the first time FGer up and running quickly. I really like it as a concept, and it's something that the existing Manual doesn't provide. I think it goes into a bit too much detail (e.g. covering the keyboard XML format), and could be cut down still further to provide a simple introduction to choosing and aircraft, airport and setting the time/weather for a flight, along with an introduction to the controls. My basic thought was indeed (see Start - For the most impatient (uuups: I just notice: My wording there is not perfect)): If the new guy has installed FlightGear by whatever means - let him start exercising it - and have the referencing system explain him any questions popping up. i.e. start with SOLO Flight as a first introduction. That way I hope to keep his attention - which i am afraid will not last long when I first try to explain all the Basics. I am even thinking about putting the Installation + Briefing into the Appendix and just start with Solo! That other stuff is boring - let him start with using and then explain him what he then, later may want to know! The whole FlightGear principle is like that: Start with one small area and a few aircraft - he will then develop his appetite for more some time - for sure! And then he will look for those infos! I know: That is not how you (should) study something - but most of our customers are young and want to fly - not study! And somehow I understand those people: I always was more the trying then the theory guy! So I could imagine to structure like: 1) Start as is 2) Flight-Manuals (Solo up to Features + Briefing 1st part Starting Up only 3) Technical References (Installation + Briefing-rest) 4) Appendix mostly as is Did I shock you now ??? 2) The First Solo complements the existing tutorials well. Nice work! 3) Moving some of the detailed reference material (e.g. command-line options) to an appendix makes a lot of sense. 4) Your work highlights the importance of providing better navigation between sections. We should certainly be looking at how we can improve navigation within the HTML version of The Manual. It would be great if we could have each chapter in the bar on the top, along with a section drop-down to provide straightforward navigation. Taking a step back, IMO there should be three separate sections to The Manual: a) A Getting Started Guide b) A Reference Guide c) Tutorials In fact I think that was the plan ages ago, but initially only the first was created (hence the filename - getstart.pdf), and over time its scope expanded to cover all three. At present the first two are combined, but your work shows that we really should be separating them more, so that the first Getting Started section covers the basics, and provides references to the detailed documentation in the Reference Guide. I am not sure what those initially thought areas actually should have covered, seeing it from today i would suggest 3 FlighTgear-Manuals 1) Flying: We are working on it. Here I would suggest a Manual! 2) Designing and modeling: I could see it going through some modeling-examples and by that introducing the existing programs, procedures, books and wikis. It should cover the whole design aspects and may even include the Program itself. Not a programming manual - but something showing the major tools in action - and where to start and
[Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
Well - yes - I am rather disappointed Especially because i looked again, but cannot find any of my suggested improvements in the latest getstart, in regards to structuring, referencing, and looks. In addition I did not really see an answer to Curtis question, that started that all - I get that kind of questions every week during my ATCing - and hoped I had an answer. But as I said at the beginning: Our dev.group had done quite some job designing the getstart quite some time ago - which I thought I could contribute to, especially from a more USERs-viewpoint. But I surely will not set up a competitive environment against that basically good work. Just let me beg for one last wish: Please spend that now getstart at least a little cosmetic treatment! Somehow I do not believe that the pictures shown in it represent todays FlightGears possibilities, especially in regards to scenery! Look e.g. the title-picture - but also several others inside. (Yes - I know: The work that counts is the (hidden) engineering - but what sells it, is the (outside visible) marketing!). I will now complete my announced task to finalize the German translation, based on the getstart. And I will keep the EN/version as is on my homepage - but will not provide a direct link to it for standard users. If anybody anytime wants to use it or parts of it for FlightGear - he is welcome to do so. I hope: No harm done joe -- Malware Security Report: Protecting Your Business, Customers, and the Bottom Line. Protect your business and customers by understanding the threat from malware and how it can impact your online business. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51427462/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
On 5 Sep 2011, Stuart Buchanan wrote: . One immediate question is how you see your changes being incorporated into to latex source code? Producing a nice PDF is quite important for a lot of people so I wouldn't want to lose that. On 5 Sep 2011, Peter Morgan wrote: . I still like Jomo idea of a flight school very much.. starting from the bottom up.. from a cadet to a commander, atc et all Certainly though, looking toward the future and more usage.. and more eyes.. we should plan for that, not only in printed media.. but in game help of ipods of a website browsing on an olde retired FG machine The main issue to consider is whether is actually a flight manual of now to fly an aircaft, or the simulation .. or both We'd need to make it original and copyrightable to every contibutor to make it 100% proof.. Thank you both very much for your interest and encouragement I have to admit: I did not yet look into the current release and update process of the getstart. Martin Spott mentioned that latex system about a year ago, but to that time I planned just a pure translation, and thus saw that as a minor problem for me. Especially I did not see a major dependency on a PDF-base for my German version. Till now I saw that relatively blue-eyed. Let me just outline my process-environment: One guy with NO budget and no records department, using a single PC running Ubuntu, all tools are Multiplatform, OS, no charge: - the HTMLs are made with KompoZer, a very nice and easy WYSIWYG HTML-editor - pictures are edited with GIMP - PDFs are made by: Open the *.html with LibreOffice Writer (former OpenOffice), convert the page-format to Landscape and push the PDF-button -- and that's it. -- see 2 examples of the output (just converted as is!): http://www.emmerich-j.de/Handbuch/EN/B3_intro.pdf http://www.emmerich-j.de/Handbuch/EN/B8_IFR.pdf On first sight those prints look pretty good to me. (The location/size of some graphics could be relocated/sized already in the source! Maybe even add header/footer or so - but all in all ??) I agree: That is a very-very cheap and dirty approach - I hope you can help me finding something more adequate - based on your experiences. I mainly hang on the following questions: 1) I am sure that most of our customers/users today rather read/search online in a WIKI and/or Forum - but I also see that some people still prefer a hardcopy to study. (Is there an additional requirement for a hardcopy for advertisement and or selling?) 2) What customers/users are we addressing? Till now I mainly address - the FGFS-newbies that want to learn - and the FGFS-users that want to look up or refresh some basics 3) Is the PDF just used for Hardcopies or also for Online-Viewing? - If just a Hardcopy the above primitive conversion could be tuned to be good enough -- but all the extended internal and external linking would be lost in the hardcopy! -- would we then need the old style Index at the end? That would be a major effort! - Or do we need Softcopy PDF's to distribute for local off-line viewing -- then all the links still show up correct - but look for a html file - not a PDF. So that links would have to be edited. Personally I would guess that would not be a big effort with todays find/replace possibilities. 3a) or would it be easier to distribute the Handbook as html in a subdirectory to $FG_ROOT/data/docs, instead of the now getstart.pdf? The security/copyright problems would not change, because everybody can copy also a central HTML via todays browsers! Those browsers even have no problem in directly printing the HTML (If e.g. a user wants only some parts of it printed)! Maybe (in some future) that manual could even reside (controlled) in the GIT and thus would be a compromise to the WIKI-process. Everybody could input at any time (in normal text) and the responsible guy integrates that into the Manual. Again: I have no experience in that area and look for help. One word to Copyright and so. After finding out how easy it is nowadays to just copy the HTML-source from a browser and change and sell it - I am worried what to do against it. Right now I guess I have some private protection as the originator. But surely I would like to put it (some day?) into the ownership of FlightGear. In some of the discussions here I noticed there are quite some lawyers around - maybe someone can advise what to do. (I hope such a document must not be GNU/GPL like: Free!). And no big hurry: I still have to review (links, spelling, wording,..)! End of the month I want to link it on may homepage - and am sure that will not be the end of my work! Thank You for Your interest joe -- Special Offer -- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! And you'll get a free Love Thy Logs t-shirt when you download Logger. Secure your
[Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
Hi Gijs, thank you very much for that detailed and competent analysis in such a short time-frame. Let me comment the most difficult question first: Should it be a WIKI? My many links for further details see: WIKI... and also several articles from me in the FGFS/wiki should reveal me as a big believer in WIKI's, as well FGFS as also WIKIPEDIA. I even have extracted some parts of the current getstart.pdf and put them into the FGFSwiki (and just reffed them with a few words in the manual). And I do want to do more of those! That way I also hope to get the valuable WIKI-idea promoted to be used even more, which would get them more attention and thus more chances to get them updated in reasonable time-spans. On the other hand: I believe WIKIs have their very big advantage in unique details - not really in manuals! In my eyes each product does need a manual that explains the Basics to the customer and then shows him where to get more infos.(Yes: I belong to the people looking into the manuals when buying a PC, TV, Auto, etc.!). And that basics (in my eyes) should express the company's (i.e. FlightGears inner devel circle) involvement/direction/supervision! My concern is, that many small pieces may be able to replace a manual at the beginning - but over a longer timeframe they will change, specialize, and lose their connecting identities! See the Curtis opening problem! And also see todays WIKI: All the informations are there - often in multiple versions and/or with different focuses. They are fantastic for the guys knowing the basics and thus what to look for - but difficult to select what is needed by a newbie! Surely it will be a big effort for anybody to keep it updated to all future FGFS-changes! But I believe those are easier to control in one single document under the Development responsibility and a defined content in unique chapters - then when the content is distributed in many small pieces without defined ownership and/or responsibility. (Does anybody have the slightest idea how many WIKIS are affected by the latest 2.4.0 changes??) Based on that fear I tried to structure the Basics in some unique Chapters that contain more technical dependencies and those that are more for teaching and looking. So with a new version you do not need to update everything - and what needs to be updated is at one known location only - not distributed in many uncontrollable pieces! And still it would be relatively easy to convert that manual to WIKI - if needed! Right now I would vote against it! And yes, sorry: I have forgotten to mention the very useful forums - - I will correct that! One more hot item I would like to sell: Sidebars or drop downs I decided against sidebars because of: 1) I wanted that book to be without any need for executable, supporting sftw. like e.g. java (virus-prone) 2) I tried it with sidebars - but then it becomes again very confusing if headers are more than just one short word. I hate indexes like now in the getstart.pdf - where you have long headers going over several lines. I like my solution that allows long, ease readable titles -- and still have room for a nice picture to it! 2) There are still many customers with old tiny screens - I rather wanted that valuable side-space for big illustrations 4) Those top/sidebars become pretty much a standard for industries and business pages - I thought my way gives more the feeling of private pilot to private pilot (I just did not yet find a place for the beer-can!) So I came up with that top menu-bar that stays there all the time. From wherever you are in the text, you can always just select any part in the bar (including the current one) and have that index in an easy to read fashion. I know it is unusual and may be one more mouse-click - but I personally like that more private atmosphere. But I would like to hear more comments to that. Thank you very much for the many other hints - they all seem very valuable - I will update accordingly. And surely we will talk again when I have a feeling for how that new style gets accepted inside the community. Thank you joe -- Special Offer -- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better
[Flightgear-devel] Links for new FlightGear pilots
Curtis actually your question hits me about 1 month too early! I am in the midst of a final checkout of my proposal for a newly styled getstart. But you asked now - so I guess I ask everyone if my proposal could be seen as what you are asking for. Pls have a look at http://www.emmerich-j.de/Handbuch/EN/1_Start.html and/or http://www.emmerich-j.de/Handbuch/DE/1_Start.html Again: I planned to introduce this end of the month - but if people believe it could be useful I welcome all help I can get to finalize it! To the History: I am not sure anybody still remembers that I announced about 1.5 years ago to translate the existing getstart.pdf into German. In the meantime I did that - 3 times: 1. Attempt While translating I noticed very often that I was not sure if that, what I was reading was fitting all environments or just MAC or .. or. Also the MakeUp was not really fitting any more the current modern FlightGear. So my major change was to define one central chapter (Installation) in which all OS-Dependencies are covered by defining the Variables $FG_... for all OS's - and referred to those throughout the book. Also I tried to remove several long listings of Options, Possibilities etc. out of the text into the Appendix or special chapters! 2. Attempt After having tested that I still was not satisfied with how to use it as a Reference. i.e. it was nice to read from the beginning to the end - but if you had a unique question after that, I found it very difficult to find an answer for a unique detail in the getstart. So I restructured that whole thing in the hope of getting a Manual to read, being also for the inpatient newbie and also as a Reference for all Basics. 3. Attempt That 2. I liked better - and thought it might be useful also for the people with an English Tongue - so now I translated that German one back to English. And tried to use as much of the English Original speech as possible -- that then made me adapting my German version again - so both are now equal. I wanted to introduce that outcome about end of this month to the dev-team, to see especially whether the Originators of the getstart still find their share in what I did, and concur to this change. I hope nobody feels offended by my partly drastic changes to their origin. You will see that I still list the Originators and just claim the Revision for myself. Any comments, critics, suggestions, improvements, etc. are highly welcome. joe (jomo) -- Special Offer -- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE! Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free! And you'll get a free Love Thy Logs t-shirt when you download Logger. Secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY! http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsisghtdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] thanks to server
I feel it is just about time to thank all server people (and ask forgiveness for some not so nice thoughts the last weeks) the last weeks there had been some big problems as well with the MPserver's as also FGcom server Today and yesterday it just worked great! Even with over 70 concurrent MP-users. A big thank to you guys jomo -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
After being one party myself in one lawsuit based on business law, lasting over 15 years now, and having already 3 contradicting verdicts by 3 different High Courts (OLG's in Germany) (and of course hundreds of suggestions by lawyers!) - I am sure there is no lawyer anywhere on world who is able to predict the outcome of any lawsuit in any country, about: Are we allowed to -- and if we are - in which country are we ... and what do other companies do ... and how does a private guy think about it and how a lawyer and how a freak and how -- I could not care less: That will not reduce the risk for FlightGear at all. And I personally do not really see the reason for FlightGear to take any risk in that matter. Yes: Also I would like to see different Logos on the models - but I really do not care if that now is the realistic original actual Logo of a company -- or if it is a look alike -- or even a completely new invented one -- with some imagination it should be even possible to invent FlighGear-Logos where someone can claim his rights in order to get some money from third parties (of course outside FGFS). And even promotes FlightGear by that!!! We should have some designers with some fantasy!! But definitely: The designer should take the risk for it - and if too young: The parents should support it - that is standard in any legal business matter for youngsters! So I strongly vote to continue the discussion of how to support those designers with home-pages or special distributions or whatever -- without FlightGear taking the risk! I thought there was already started a very nice thinking in that direction! How about directing the attention of our lawyers, designers, old guys, young guys, etc. etc. etc. into that direction -- instead of what one lawyer says about one unique country in some world in some universe -- that will not really help at all!! Judges seem to reside in a world not known to anyone like us! Sorry that I am not that deep in that technicalities to offer a complete solution! But count on me if I can help in that direction! joe -- What You Don't Know About Data Connectivity CAN Hurt You This paper provides an overview of data connectivity, details its effect on application quality, and explores various alternative solutions. http://p.sf.net/sfu/progress-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Logos and licensing
It seems to me that this becomes a never ending discussion. For me it would be a pity if we could not have models with whatever (legal) Logo - but for me it would be an even bigger pity if the FlightGear -Community would get into a lawsuit because of this with incalculable risks. So I get the idea: Why not try to put the risks where they belong? It should be possible to post other people things without taking the responsibility for that - i.e. if FGFS proves it did its best to avoid any legal problems. So how about an legal agreement in writing between FGFS-Server-Resposible and the designer, that the later - has been informed about possible risks (e.g. when using such Logos) - has the approval to use that Logo from the owner of that logo - and that he is of legal age - and that he agrees that FGFS can remove his design from it's server whenever opportune I would say a copy of that should also go into the package of that model To my knowledge that is a usual procedure for any Server providing something for others. Dow we have Legal-People who could come up with something like that? And would designers accept to take that risk for themselves? joe -- Free Software Download: Index, Search Analyze Logs and other IT data in Real-Time with Splunk. Collect, index and harness all the fast moving IT data generated by your applications, servers and devices whether physical, virtual or in the cloud. Deliver compliance at lower cost and gain new business insights. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir
No idea if somebody noticed already - because I have a little unusual setup in my FG_Scenery (FGrun page 0): 1) Scenery-EDDF-papillon... (new rw's in EDDF, not yet in TS) 2) Scenery/TerraSync (marked with new T) 3) Scenery (standard) When using TerraSync or Scenery Prefetch it downloads into 1) (papillon) -- what I do not really like!! I thought the T would define to upgrade to TerraSync !! My FGFS version is 2.2.0 on UBUNTU, installed by download_and_compile.sh 2011-02-02 (see http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Scripted_Compilation_on_Linux_Debian/Ubuntu). No big deal for me - but in case nobody noticed it yet joe (jomo) -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] TerraySync/SceneryPrefetch with FGwizzard downloads into wrong Dir
Heiko Sorry - I do not understand your answer: User Fault! ;-) TerraSync has to be in the first row and marked as (1), so it will downloaded into the right folder! Did somebody change the design and reasoning completely? Are you sure about your answer?? Please have a look at http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/Terrasync and see the description in chapter Start TerraSync from fgrun.exe ..., notice especially the field in the right upper corner - what for is the possibility of defining which is the TerraSync-Dir?? (Yes I know: The layout has changed since then - but the function should still be there!) If that philosophy has changed I urgently suggest to go back to it - many pilots like to test new sceneries prior to change there TerraSync and/or Scenery directories at once!! joe -- The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Ridding Multiplayer of Abusers
As a guy who gets insulted about every second day while trying to enforce proper ATC onto everybody approaching EDDF I surely would support a system which could solve that problem - if I just had the slightest idea how to overcome the following questions: # How can we avoid that somebody (who believes he is the good guy) reacts in a manner, that just escalates the problem - maybe he even tries to shoot the opponent down? What is worse: The first words of kids stuff or an escalating response? # I am no lawyer, so: Could you really win in court if somebody insults you - and you responded or even escalated -- although you could stop that whole attack just by a little mouse-click into the PilotList? # I hope we agree at least, that MP should always act worldwide - and nobody is forbidden to type or talk in any language - what dictionary or so could you use to define how big the problem is we all have? # How do you handle spoken attacks via FGCOM? Translate via Festival and then make a literal compare? # If you implement a grading system: How can you avoid that some bad guys group together and downgrade good guys - maybe just for fun? I am pretty sure ATCs could be a good target for such combined minus ratings. What happens if somebody gets downgraded and finally be locked out? Can he go to court and say I did not!? # To my knowledge it is just about impossible today to define a person by IP: Multi-usage by many people, DNS changing IP NR every day, WLANS, etc. Even the police do have big problems to define a person by IP -- they need special court-orders for checking the providers-list (at least in Europe!). # Would you even be allowed to keep a rating system on your serves that keeps track of personal behavior? If so in US - also worldwide?? And if so: Who is allowed to look into that?? So quite frankly, i do not see any possibility to do something like this without a very huge overload of administration (and constant costs - and undefined legal problems - worldwide!). So really I do only see one solution: Lets all try to be paragons -- and reduce the problem! I do not see any solution to prevent it completely! Not even if we had unlimited resources available! I am really glade I do not have to decide on that. joe -- Download new Adobe(R) Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 The new Adobe(R) Flex(R) 4 and Flash(R) Builder(TM) 4 (formerly Flex(R) Builder(TM)) enable the development of rich applications that run across multiple browsers and platforms. Download your free trials today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Disappearing scenery
Just to second that: As ATC in EDDF I had several people experience that totally white scenery - especially 1 guy coming regularly from EETN to EDDF - he experienced that about 1 out of 3. And it usually happens just during final. In the meantime that guy experiences lots of FGFS-crashes already over northern Germany when coming from EETN - so not sure if that prevents him from getting the white scenery at EDDF! So I tried it several times myself and got the white scenery too. I got it even when just going from EDDP to EDDF. Moving my total, worldwide scenery from an external USB-disk to a local (fast) one and downgrading several Rendering Options and making sure I fly without TerraSync seemed to fix it. So I thought it is a slow PC in addition to the EDDF problem being just at a corner-point of tiles and populated very heavily with buildings etc. But then I got it twice (out of 5) by going EDDF to KBOS with Concorde! Once I tried to land anyhow (just on AutoLand) and scenery appeared again just at TouchDown! By the way: I use a UBUNTU 10.04 with AMD 64 X2 Dual 6000 with video GeForce 7600 GT and 4 GB mem. It really would be great if somebody finds a reason for it - of course next time I will try that tip cycling the views - thanks for the hint! joe -- Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances and start using them to simplify application deployment and accelerate your shift to cloud computing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] C172p 3D Turn-Coordinator
I tried to find some more sources to trust on the correlation between Banking and Turn-rate. But the only one I found stating a direct relationship, and backing that up with a nice formula is our FlightGear Manual (FlightGear-2/data/Docs/getstart.pdf, page 101, ch. 7.4 Basic Turns) which I try to translate right now (that's where those nitty gritties come from) - and even there it is stated that that is true for a c172p. Other sources like C172 real Manuals, FAA, Student Pilots Flight Manual (1970), Manufacturer of TC, etc. just seem to see the Banking and Turn-rate as independent things. So I tested it once more on my FGFS 1.9 Ubuntu 10.04 - this time not trusting my Pilot Skills but taking: simulator fair weather, artificial coordination of Rudder/Aileron, constant height 2500ft at 120 kn over KOAK, doing 2 circles for trimming and then measuring 3 without changes: - the old c172p 3D with TI: 5:48 Min at Banking ~15° (1 min 56 sec) - the new c172p 3D with TC: 6:28 Min at Banking ~20° (2 min 9 sec) Yes: I take that 15° back for the new version - with the no human intervention during turns that 2 min at 20° seems to be very much ok - sorry for my doubts. And thank you - that was an interesting discussion joe -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Pete thanks for the flowers. But really it is just because I am a little lazy and thus tried (for about 2 weeks) to get it done simple and without rework when transferring formats. Let me try to explain: I did it on an Linux/Ubuntu with OpenOffice - and thus I started there - and after several tries I found: * they offer a lot of different possibilities to work on and transfer between different formats * I generated the master as an OpenOffice.org Writer (*.odt). (I did try also their Master Document - but HTML does not like that structure when converting! So everything is in one big doc - what of course has some drawbacks - but not yet significant ones!) * I did all work inside this *.odt, defined also all bookmarks (e.g. all the items in the appendix Tech.Terms and Abbreviations) * I did alle references as hyper-links inside the one doc! They offer under hyper-links usual Internet-links, Mails, Documents, etc.. Under Document (no entry means inside the one you work on) -- target you can pick up also the bookmarks and headings, etc. * PDF was no problem at all: Just pick the menu-icon PDF (Export directly as PDF) * the HTML is tricky: If you try to export you get a split up document in which no internal reference's will fit! So I used the simple save as HTML Document - and was surprised how good that works. BUT still: If you compare the PDF and the HTML you will find some formatting discrepancies, especially inside tables and alike. For now I decided it is good enough - but would like to hear any comment - good or bad!! But the clue is really: Work only one document and convert without any additional work into those 2 formats! i.e. you get new releases in a snap!! (And still can control the contents - I guess there should be something like that IN ADDITION to the open wiki's! I also kept all included graphics as link in order that HTML does not export them with funny names. And I tried several of the available translators - but (at least the no cost ones) did cost more of my time for figuring out what they mean exactly - and then they often mislead you into some funny wording or grammar -- so I got away from those and translated without their help. At least for me that worked much faster! Please contact me if you are interested in more details. You may have noticed that also I am very much interested in getting FlightGear internationalized - and not just for Germans. But I guess in order get (non English speaking) beginners interested they should find something basic in their language - the later needed specialized English will then come automatically. See also my ATC-ML.zip (Multi-Lingual) on my http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/ downloads. Hope that was not t much rgds joe On Sun, 2010-06-13 at 00:03 +0100, Peter Morgan wrote: I take my hat off to you, this has taken time and dedication. I speak welsh and learnt some more german, even though its Double dutch (a welsh/english phrase)... How did you find the conversion process, and can you offer advice for othe rlanguage implemetations? I maintained the Smarty documentation for a while a few years back.. Its was in DOCBook which is a nightmare format, ie makes some sense to a human as its XML.. but incorrecttags/incorect However, docbook had the advantage of being portable, meaning some conversion happen, which to this day not understand, but they appear in html, txt and pdf. The frustrating aspect was that the french translator was following my edits too closely, and indeed translate mistake and not check (eg not run code). ie I would commit changes in them days to CVS and await review.. and minor errors.. I would like to help FG in making it International, so if a new user decides to translate to X, then they should be tutorial of some kind.. pete -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lost SourceForge account jomo
Help please: I know I had an Account, but now the system does not accept my login any more! Recovery is not possible neither with e-mail, nor jomo, nor name, etc. If trying to create a new account it rejects by telling me jomo is used. For sure I had a login - see e.g. [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German from 3/24/2010 and several others - showing my name and e-mail. By which I notice: My FirstName is written in real nice German Jörg instead of the usual engl. Joerg. May it be the new Computers do not like that ö?? One more hint: I could not find my articles by search of title nor my e-mail etc -- but I could list them in the complete list by date. Can anybody help?? I would like to keep my jomo!!! Please! joe -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Well - I know, this first offering for review of the new German version took significantly longer than I thought. But while trying to understand what was written I became confused several times - and got more and more into review mode - and that lead to several changes -- included in the German version - proposed also for the English version. Right now I finished the The FlighGear Simulator part (Preface, I. Installation, II. Getting to know the Simultator, Appendix). I just started the pure Flying Tutorials (Part III) - which should be easier/quicker to translate. But I guess it is a good time to review what I did now and how. So please do - I appreciate any comment. Please see the translated Manual (Handbuch) as HTML and/or PDF (both from the same OpenOffice source): http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.html http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart-de.pdf In addition a summary of what I changed (besides the translation): http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes.pdf http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/Getstart-DE/getstart_Changes-Index.pdf Even thought I know, that not everybody is able to read and understand German (what a pity!!) - I guess everybody might get an idea of the major differences by looking into the ..Index.pdf comparisons. happy reading joe -- ThinkGeek and WIRED's GeekDad team up for the Ultimate GeekDad Father's Day Giveaway. ONE MASSIVE PRIZE to the lucky parental unit. See the prize list and enter to win: http://p.sf.net/sfu/thinkgeek-promo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Class-based MP aircraft visibility
Hi Stuart sorry that I am that stubborn on this - but somehow I am afraid that this item could affect our ideas of a free and open community. And I am glad to see that Rob has similar concerns - and also Peters aspect of MPmap is making me worry even more - because which ATC does not also use the MPmap in parallel for the Area/Approach control? - and if it gets hectic the poor ATC might confuse himself by seeing traffic in MPmap which is not on his ATCradar. (Happens to me all the time when people show up at EDDF on MPserver02 - they usually pop in/out PilotList all the time and drive me nuts! Seems to be a poor data-exchange between MP02 and the rest of MPservers. Generally it works - with interrupts!) Maybe just a MouseKlick in the PilotList to set a different color in the PilotList could be good enough for ignore. (But does it disappear when the pilot pops out because of delayed MPserver-data or when the pilot keys p for pause (e.g. to type a msg)??? With all the other ratings/grades/etc. i would propose something even more drastic then you propose now -- but be warned: that would be a very big effort and would have some impact on many areas of design and philosophy: In the forum there are many who try to build up Flying-Schools - although it seems it is just impossible to find teachers being available on a constant, long term schedule -- as well as enough students that are willing to go to school on a scheduled period. To attract students I would propose real grades from the (to be build up) FlightGear academy shown in the FlightGear Member-List - and only being set by authorized instructors. (The member himself must have the ability to show/noShow that grade!) That marks could be picked up in FlightGear and shown in different colors in PilotList (may be even in MPmap). That could develop to become a big stimulus/attraction (and could be withdrawn if needed!). Also our Graphical-enthusiasts could develop nice certificates - even good enough to pinup at the working-place (and thus help us promote FlightGear!). See e.g. http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/SOLO.png - I still show that proudly everywhere - and what is the difference between a certificate from AOPA or FGFS?? For sure it would be a good advertisement (for FGFS!)! But that would be a rather complex change and needs a lot of people to join in -- and I am not sure that would be wanted by the free and open community! And I am not sure it could be realized - because of manpower constraints! Could that be something to evaluate?? joe -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Class-based MP aircraft visibility
Thanks Stuart for the explanation - and I guess I understand now how it shall work in an event with a group of people having the same goals and settings (e.g. TGA). Although I still see the possibility that some (younger or older) kids try to show off by changing their grade and making as much trouble as possible - but that is a minor concern. So: Fine for them! I also understand that the ATC can choose which people he wants to deal with - and as ATC that would be great news for me (if I would believe that people do not manipulate their grades! But I see that as a minor concern!). But still I do not understand how that works for the users in an open ATC environment, e.g. just dropping in at EDDF on her/his flight from EHAM to LSZH. What do they see? Does ATC tell them while approaching the airport to set certain filters and or grades? Because also for the just passing by users it would be rather confusing suddenly seeing traffic that ATC did not see/control. I experience that problem very often, when visitor come in or depart with AI-traffic-manager enabled -- they suddenly get hit -- and blame ATC for a very bad work! Again: I am not so much concerned about the group of people who know already -- but the people we want to attract to join in! -- and that we want them I Would stress - not the if they want to join By the way: I would not take KSFO as a measure - it is (and should remain) the Default-Startup for all - thus it will be the starting place for everybody doing his first or second try. I really believe if somebody wants to fly in an orderly fashion he should not try to do that at KSFO! I know the amount of traffic there my tempt ATC's to go there - but to change that is not realistic/wanted (in my eyes). joe -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Class-based MP aircraft visibility
As someone doing ATC 4 days/week, I would like to bring in another point of view to this issue: Very definitely we need such a tool for the environment Stuart described as the main use-case are pilots wishing to practice .. ATC-controlled environment. And I agree, those (like e.g. the TGA-events) would benefit from it most - and I do participate in that TGA and believe it is great and needs to extend much more -- especially for those who know already. BUT: That is not the environment I want to stress here! In FlightGear we constantly have lots of Newcomers and especially young ones - we need to get their attention and convince them to like flying in a controlled manner -- i.e. do marketing for that idea! And best marketing is addressing people not knowing about it yet and make them curious. The opposite we would achieve if we build up borders by defining who may do what -- mostly even prior to them knowing that there exist such things! Please do not forget: Most people hate to read User-Manuals - especially our youngsters get into the plane - switch on AP - and off they go. You need to get there interest!! In my experience (as ATC-EDDF and strong promoter of FGCOM) most people drop in because there shows up a crowed in the MPmap - so they want to join the happening. By the way: At that point the biggest problems is, that those do not yet have FGCOM --- and do not notice what is going on because they do not hear the instructions (about 50% FGCOM, sometimes close to 100%)! That is one of the reasons why I often send the MPchat msg's in addition to the FGCOM handling. Those guys then notice pretty fast that working with FGCOM is much better than typing - and start asking how to! (Achieving that is my goal!) And yes: There are also those kids, that just try to get some attention from someone and do everything for that -- they are a real pain in the ... -- and I very often wish I could just lock them out! On the other hand I notice (when the biggest stress is over) that after ignoring them (although they know we others still see them!) they calm down pretty fast - AND: More then 50% come back some time later to join in! That is my repayment for the pain! I guess every salesman knows that problem and success! And everybody has seen the little lonesome kids at the playground - not knowing how they could join in -- those I want to help - by which I believe there are a lot of grownups behaving the same way as those kids!)) If I interpret Rob correct, his TGA would be the perfect customer for those limitations -- but also he is very much interested in getting new people, even if they do not yet qualify in the minimums! I guess you call it: Learning by doing! So my take is: - yes, we need the ability to lock some people out, if it is getting too bad - but do not lock out people because they may not (yet) have a certain qualification -- try to find a balance between those two! I know everybody believes we Germans like to regulate everything: I would prefer to convince! joe -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] ATC
PM: So ATC is restricted to a few 10's of NM to location Well: with the new FGCOM.Gui http://code.google.com/p/fgcomgui/w/list the range is equal to MPchat range (99 mi) -- about 200 mi range for the control circle! Same is true for ATC-model: also ATC-ML (and others) cover maximal 100 mi (MPchat-range). Normal Radar does not do more! PM: This doth not work with sector control, however frivolous that may be.. If you find a point to locate you Center in the center of EHAM-EGGL - (in the North see - e.g. a Helicopter Oil-Platform?) fine. But for Sector-Control it probably works better with MPmap. PM: Ideally I can be ATC for EGLL, EHAM and all in one.. Please do not overdo it: If pilots do get bad experiences once -- they might not come back -- and all our/my goal is to get more and more people to like flying controlled and use FGCOM!! I do a lot of ATC in EDDF. Out of experience I can say: If there are about 5 pilots in the area out of which 3 are unexperienced (and thus misunderstand a lot) and 2 are youngsters who want to have fun and talks - and some others tend to talk longer because of personality -- then you get a whole lot of problems handling just 1 locations - just trying to find a time-slot to issue a command! And because you like the ATC-ML you know you are not talking only FGCOM - but also more than 50% MPchat typing! I would not try that if business runs good! (Did you ever try to enforce a controlled environment at KSFO!?!? Controlling only 1 out of 10 is not the idea!) And: you have your ATC-tool always at one location! We do a similar task at EDDF if there is not much to do: Control EDDF traffic till 100mi out - and get them to ILS/Visual approach in EDDK or EDFH via MPmap. That works pretty good - if there is time enough! Also see TGA-event experience: There are scheduled about 1 APR + 1 Dep all 5 min (e.g. per 20 Min Ctrl-cycle = avg 4-6 active!) -- and all use FGCOM -- that already makes it tough on the non professional ATC and Pilots -- they/we use 2 ATCs (twr/gnd and Apr/dep). PM: Also ATC_ML is cool and why is this not in git pps ... CVS ? Thanks: That ATC_ML is mine -- guess it is stable enough now for general use -- if someone tells me how to get it into CVS - OK. joe (jomo) -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Issue with default starting scenario
As a long-hour ATC I really got p. (sorry) mad about those planes popping up on the active during heavy traffic - but it is also obvious that this happens mostly because of just following the default - as soon as they know how to do it better they do better (or go somewhere else). So I suggest we should not overreact and try to enforce you pilot must, you designer must, you.. must - how do you want to enforce that anyhow?? No way for that in a free world! Also I am sure it is only a problem for APs with lots of traffic (surely KSFO, EDDF, EHAM, etc.) which are highly modeled and even have parking/gate places. So: Why not just let the startup program check first in (ICAO.parking.xml) is there a parking-position? and if yes: Take the first one. If not, continue as is today. My argument for it is: 1) For small APs with few traffic nobody cares, wherever however somebody pops up - so why enforce anything? 2) For big ones with much traffic and no parking-lots yet, I am sure it is no problem to get some positions into the xml (by someone liking that AP!) - otherwise the serious pilots will stay away soon 3) Of course that may cause pileups at ParkingPos 1 - but that is a problem of the ones in the pileup - and I am sure they learn fast how to find other ways than just appear by default 4) Of course it only helps against people who do not want to or do not know how to define a certain location. But I am sure they learn fast when it hurts them most. 5) And there even may be some who want to crash purposely - but that you cannot avoid anyhow with no enforcement at all. But my experience say: They change there habit pretty fast after getting to hear/read from all sides some things between please and stupid and ... . And surely it would be nice for many pilots first trying to taxi prior to fly! jomo -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
Hi Maik, thank you for offering help in translating your chapter about the Helicopters. But I am a little confused: I just compared the getstart.pdf chapter A Helicopter Tutorial with the wiki Flying the Helicopter - and on first sight they look exactly the same. What I do not understand: There is already a translation De/Fliegen mit dem helikopter -- so why do you want to translate it again?? Sorry if I misunderstood something. Still thanks for the offer joe -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
I am very positive surprised that more people are interested in this project, than I thought! Some even offer actual help! That is very encouraging for me - I hope that will not get against me when I confess that I might not just do a word-by-word translation but also get some proposals for a general review. Actually I would have wanted to have some more stuff done in order to show what i mean - but may be it is a good time to discuss some basics for my doing already now. I got the idea by doing a lot of ATC-ing now in EDDF - and noticed that many people would like to fly in a more orderly conduct - but lack the possibility to learn it. Especially also most of the very young (who first get really mad if somebody tries to tell them what to do) get interested very much after doing/watching some ATC-guided patterns. But they need some advise why, what, how - to be read in a small book in their language - most of the Youngsters do not speak English (yet). Most of them have no idea how nice it can be to learn in a C172 - instead of just switching on AP in a 747! While translating the getstart I checked some references etc - and got the idea that several parts are a little outdated or new developments are merged in without rewriting the existing stuff! That is very OK for a development guy - for a little boy/girl hardly knowing any English it is often very confusing (and lengthy). Right now I am on chapter 3 (probably the most complicated - Starting FGFS with/without FGrun and/or Command-Line and/or Command-File for all Operating Systems etc etc). I found it very very hard even for me to understand what is available for what and when and how - a kid cannot understand that. So I set myself some rule - which I hope you can agree to: I will not just do a word by word translation - but by that a review - and I will propose changes. I will include the proposals in my draft of the German-Version - and document all the deviations from the original for a possible pickup also in the original (or of course also to change it back in my German proposal!). I will make the work done accessible for you asap, so we can early discuss what might be good - and what might not. Give me about 1 more week to finish the proposed major reworked Chapter 3 - then we can start. In short to some remarks made already: Yes - I am aware that many of the things are also in the wiki - and are even much more current there. In order to keep the Manual readable for kids I will try to use only the absolutely needed Basics out of the wiki and include pointers to the wiki for more details see In the Manual itself I would rather shorten some things. e.g. I do not believe that all (1000 ??) Command-Line-Options must be listed in the manual - only the most used/needed ones must be there -- and a pointer! And I have a proposal for people wanting to help hands on: It is not really very helpful to point out of a German manual to an English wiki -- so please have a look into the Manual now - where it refers to something in the wiki - and translate those basics to German (it seems that in the wiki other languages get translated more often!). e.g. I have in work now also the De/FlightGear Launch Control - but there are a lot more which i would consider as Basics for flying/understanding FlightGear! For the example of the Helicopter (and similar) I am not yet sure about the best way: But I am convinced also here we do need a chapter about the Basics of how to fly a Helicopter in the manual -- and point to the wiki for enhanced maneuvers and different types of helicopters etc. etc. (Helicopter-flying seems to be THE trend right now!). thanks for any help joe -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Translating getstart.pdf to German
I searched for a good, affordable FlightGear tutorial for my German friends - but was not very lucky. So I made up my mind to translate the FlightGear Standard getstart.pdf. Because translating that 218 pages may not be done in a couple of weeks I just want to make aware of that I started - so that we might avoid multiples of such a bigger task. As soon as I have a complete first draft i will make it accessible here for reviews etc. And especially provide suggested changes to the original to Stuart and or Martin. joe -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
