Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-11 Thread Julian Leviston
I think it looks quite cool... It seems to sit on Eclipse, which means Ruby development might be possible with it. That'd be fantastic. I've been looking for something that has a class browser and workspace as well as a debugger / runtime inspector for Ruby. If we could get it working for

Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-11 Thread Julian Leviston
On 12/03/2010, at 9:46 AM, Andrey Fedorov wrote: Chris Gahan wrote: Or your goal could be this program should have a response time of less than 0.5 seconds. Again, much better to be expressed as code. Remember, after all, that code is simply unambiguous text which a computer can

Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-12 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/03/2010, at 3:17 AM, John Zabroski wrote: Wrong. Commercial spreadsheets are not Turing complete. However, it is possible for a programming language built using the spreadsheet cell as a fundamental building block to be Turing complete. See Oregon State University's work on

Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-12 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/03/2010, at 4:41 AM, Andrey Fedorov wrote: Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: To restate my point, simply: programming computers is not as easy as using them, and using them is not even as easy or useful as it could be. Don't get me wrong - I completely understand your

Re: [fonc] Code Bubbles

2010-03-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/03/2010, at 1:10 PM, James McCartney wrote: Also, I don't know if I need to say this, but my perception is that people around here may hate this because of the strong functional programming stance, but I think the key neat idea here is the idea of fusing UI. So if possible, try to get

Object Ontology... Was: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-10 Thread Julian Leviston
... - Original Message - From: Julian Leviston To: Fundamentals of New Computing Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard? From: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2009016_steps09.pdf The interesting part of this scheme is not just the long established idea

Re: Object Ontology... Was: [fonc] Fonc on Mac Snow Leopard?

2010-05-11 Thread Julian Leviston
We're saying the same thing. Julian. On 12/05/2010, at 12:32 AM, BGB wrote: consider plain arithmentic: numbers and arithmetic are also sterile of meaning and context. yet, they are very much useful in a large number of (often unrelated) contexts. sometimes, we don't need the

[fonc] COLA

2010-05-17 Thread Julian Leviston
I've got a bit of a... query I guess... I'm quite interested in learning about how COLA works. Is this a candidate interest for COLA itself? Is this one of the goals of the FONC group? To avail the learning of others? Or is only directed at children? As far as I can see, it'd be incredibly

Re: [fonc] Ancient rumblings about objects, actors, and agents

2010-06-23 Thread Julian Leviston
You're inspiring, Alan. Words aren't such a good communication means, here, but I'll do my best. Your writing in this article reminds me of how wonderful the world is, and how we're not even just beginning out in terms of possibility (and this brings me so much energy). It reminds me of my

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/07/2010, at 10:29 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. wrote: The lack of scalability that I was talking about is where a system becomes too much for any person to understand. Though lines of code is very simplistic, Alan has compared code sizes of various projects with different kinds of books in

Re: [fonc] goals

2010-07-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/07/2010, at 1:55 PM, BGB wrote: yes. there is much emphasis on people understanding an entire system, whereas often a programmer does not need to have such comprehensive understanding. in a large codebase, for example, parts of the project will come into view as one works on

Re: [fonc] On inventing the computing microscope/telescope for the dynamic semantic web

2010-10-10 Thread Julian Leviston
I'm not entirely sure why the idea of pattern expressions and meta-translators wasn't an awesome idea. If expressing an idea cleanly in a language is possible, and expressing that language in another language clearly and cleanly is possible, why is it not possible to write a tool which will

Re: [fonc] On inventing the computing microscope/telescope for the dynamic semantic web

2010-10-10 Thread Julian Leviston
My answer can be best expressed simply and deeply thus: I don't see the unix command 'ls' being rewritten every day or even every year. Do you understand what I'm trying to get at? It's possible to use an 'ls' replacement if I so choose, but that's simply my preference. 'ls' itself hasn't

[fonc] Spec-Driven Self-Testing Code

2010-10-10 Thread Julian Leviston
Does anyone know about a language (possibly something in smalltalk) that involves spec-driven development? A language that stipulates a spec (in code - ie a test) must be written before any code can be written, and that can also do self-checks (sort of like a checksum) before the code is

Re: [fonc] Spec-Driven Self-Testing Code

2010-10-10 Thread Julian Leviston
of it. Regards, Julian On 11/10/2010, at 1:11 PM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote: On Sunday 10 Oct 2010 10:51:44 pm Julian Leviston wrote: Does anyone know about a language (possibly something in smalltalk) that involves spec-driven development? Spec-driven development of what? There have been many attempts

Re: [fonc] Spec-Driven Self-Testing Code

2010-10-14 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/10/2010, at 4:50 PM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote: On Monday 11 Oct 2010 7:56:02 am Julian Leviston wrote: I think this is better off baked in because it would encourage programmers (users of the language) to write down what they intend to do before they do it. Something most people do

Re: [fonc] Spec-Driven Self-Testing Code

2010-10-14 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/10/2010, at 5:56 PM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote: On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 11:30:44 am Julian Leviston wrote: Executable documentation coupled with behavioural testing baked in is what I'm after. ie the code won't actually execute without a checksum existing first that indicates

Re: [fonc] Growing Objects?

2010-10-14 Thread Julian Leviston
On 15/10/2010, at 12:20 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote: The previous thread about testing got me thinking about this again. One of the biggest problems I have in the large with getting developers to write tests is the burden of maintaining the tests when the code changes. I have this wacky

Re: [fonc] Describing Semantics

2010-11-21 Thread Julian Leviston
Man... I *wish* I could meet you, let alone meet you in Kyoto! J On 22/11/2010, at 12:36 PM, Ian Piumarta wrote: On Nov 22, 2010, at 08:40 , Casey Ransberger wrote: matters of syntax and grammar are only the easy part of the problem. How many hoops do we want to jump through in order to

Re: [fonc] Show Us The Code!

2010-12-17 Thread Julian Leviston
No way dude... they've release most of what they've been working on... J On 18/12/2010, at 3:53 PM, Mark Haniford wrote: Year and years have passed by. There's something else going on here. I'll keep my speculations to myself. On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Julian Leviston jul

Re: [fonc] Show Us The Code!

2010-12-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 21/12/2010, at 2:01 AM, Reuben Thomas wrote: They don't have to answer any questions, or indeed demands. (Pardon me if I err, but I've noticed no active participant from VPRI in this thread, quite possibly because, as I admit, I've made the same point before, rather more gently, which is

Re: [fonc] What Should The Code Look Like? (was: Show Us The Code!)

2010-12-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 21/12/2010, at 4:51 AM, Steve Wart wrote: So is there anything interesting from a FONC perspective in mobile devices? It may be a coincidence that Apple's success with the iPhone is to a large extent due to a Smalltalk-derived C dialect, but most people who know Smalltalk would agree that

Re: [fonc] What Should The Code Look Like? (was: Show Us The Code!)

2010-12-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 21/12/2010, at 6:07 AM, Brian Gilman wrote: I think that the fundamental problem is that keyboards are good for entering text, and text scales very well. Artists and musicians tend to heavily favor visual node based programming, which is a better fit for mobile platforms. Just drag

Re: [fonc] The Elements of Computing Systems

2011-01-05 Thread Julian Leviston
Yes! I couldn't agree more. We *need* this kind of thought. Every time we think about something, we think about it for the first time... this is the kind of thought that yields pink ideas not limited in creativity. Julian. On 06/01/2011, at 2:52 AM, John Zabroski wrote: I remember reading a

Re: [fonc] Software and Motivation

2011-02-19 Thread Julian Leviston
On 19/02/2011, at 10:30 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote: I've been thinking a lot about why I like to code, and how that relates to the fact that I will program for money. The programming for money part isn't nearly as satisfying to me for some reason as some of the stuff I've been doing for

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-03-30 Thread Julian Leviston
I'm glad you linked to this John. I found it intensely interesting, especially as it mirrors efforts I've been making in building a similar system. I'm not overly chuffed with the three new definitions of copy (which sort of re-builds the difficulties and complexities of abstraction that the

Re: [fonc] visual environments created by present/former VPRI staff

2011-04-08 Thread Julian Leviston
I quite like what Apple's Numbers does with spreadsheets... something as simple as naming sheets and having multiple variable-sized sheets on the one page (they call them tables) means you can address cells by name and things become kinda like variables... That one simple thing makes them so

[fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-08 Thread Julian Leviston
I have a question about OMeta. Could it be used in any way to efficiently translate programs between languages? I've been thinking about this for a number of months now... and it strikes me that it should be possible...? Julian. ___ fonc mailing list

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-08 Thread Julian Leviston
taking. On Apr 8, 2011, at 2:46 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: It does that all the time. An easy way to do it is to make up a universal semantics, perhaps in AST form, then write translators into and out of. Cheers, Alan From: Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-08 Thread Julian Leviston
: It does that all the time. An easy way to do it is to make up a universal semantics, perhaps in AST form, then write translators into and out of. Cheers, Alan From: Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net To: Fundamentals of New Computing fonc@vpri.org Sent: Fri, April 8, 2011 7:24:28 AM

Re: [fonc] Question about OMeta

2011-04-10 Thread Julian Leviston
You should probably have a look at ActiveRecord::Migration which is part of Rails if you're interested in SQL-based systems, and in fact ActiveRecord in general is a really wonderful abstraction system - and a very good mix of do what you *can* in a programming-language based DSL, and what you

Re: [fonc] Beats

2011-05-17 Thread Julian Leviston
On 18/05/2011, at 8:06 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote: Here's something ironic: we've instead focused on ways to *correct* human error in music. Pitch correction for your vocals, but don't use too much, or you'll sound like a fax machine (unless that's what you're going for, in which case you

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-04 Thread Julian Leviston
On 04/06/2011, at 6:59 AM, Michael Forster wrote: On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 3:35 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: [...] I'm assuming you didn't mean to be insulting. Yes, unstructured database is a bit of an oxymoron, and I intentionally used the words in this clever way, which

[fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-08 Thread Julian Leviston
Hi, I've been attempting to assimilate the corresponding code to Ian Piumerta's object model at http://piumarta.com/software/cola/objmodel2.pdf My C knowledge is lacking, because I don't understand some of the basics in it. I thought maybe some of you might be kind enough to elucidate. I

Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-08 Thread Julian Leviston
Tanks everyone for answering on this so much... Comment/Question below, On 09/06/2011, at 4:56 AM, Kevin Jones wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver, ...); method_t is a pointer to a function that returns an object

Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
See below... On 09/06/2011, at 2:59 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver, ...); method_t is a pointer to a function that returns an object pointer and takes receiver and additional argument Thanks

Re: [fonc] Issues with understanding obj.c

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
Answering my own question... On 09/06/2011, at 4:27 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: See below... On 09/06/2011, at 2:59 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: I really don't understand what this means: typedef struct object *(*method_t)(struct object *receiver, ...); method_t is a pointer to a function

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
On 09/06/2011, at 5:56 PM, Josh Gargus wrote: However, can we do better than that? I guess the answer depends on which aspect of the status quo we're trying to improve on (searchability, mashups, etc). For search, there must be plenty of technologies that can improve on HTML by

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-09 Thread Julian Leviston
On 09/06/2011, at 7:04 PM, BGB wrote: actually, possibly a relevant question here, would be why Java applets largely fell on their face, but Flash largely took off (in all its uses from YouTube to Punch The Monkey...). My own opinion of this is the same reason that the iPad feels faster

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote: image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though... dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if done well... I don't follow this train of thought. Everything runs in an image. That's to say, the source code directly relates to

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/06/2011, at 7:50 PM, BGB wrote: On 6/13/2011 1:33 AM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 12/06/2011, at 1:00 PM, BGB wrote: image-based systems have their own sets of drawbacks though... dynamic reload could be a good enough compromise IMO, if done well... I don't follow this train

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote: It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it. Hi Alan, You might need to elucidate a little more on this for me to personally understand you. Not sure how others

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 4:07 AM, Josh Gargus wrote: On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 14/06/2011, at 1:17 AM, Alan Kay wrote: It would be great if everyone on this list would think deeply about how to have an eternal system, and only be amplified by it. Hi Alan

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
I wrote this without reading the very latest http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011001_final_worlds.pdf so if I say anything that is obviously missing that understanding, please bear with me :) I'll read it shortly. Julian. On 14/06/2011, at 5:26 AM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 14/06/2011, at 4:07

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 6:02 AM, BGB wrote: but, what would be the gain?... the major issue with most possible graphical representations, is that they are far less compact. hence, the common use of graphical presentations to represent a small amount in information in a compelling way (say, a

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 7:33 AM, Casey Ransberger wrote: Kids may not have the linguistic development out of the way that one needs to do serious programming. Adults who don't already code may find themselves short on some of the core concepts that conventional programming languages expect of

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 7:16 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: Consider what it'd be like if we didn't represent code as text... and represented it maybe as series of ideograms or icons (TileScript nod). Syntax errors don't really crop up any more, do they? Given a slightly nicer User Interface than

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/06/2011, at 1:50 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: When you're about to type the next tile, you're given options... anything outside of those options is impossible, so the computer doesn't put it in, because syntactically it wouldn't make sense. There's nothing specific to tiles in what

Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?

2011-06-14 Thread Julian Leviston
On 15/06/2011, at 1:14 AM, Tristan Slominski wrote: Just for completeness, the lenses you describe here remind me of OMeta's foreign rule invocation: Yeah, I think there is a fair amount of deep digestion required to fully grok these ideas, personally. Haha that sounds disturbing. :)

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-14 Thread Julian Leviston
On 15/06/2011, at 9:00 AM, Kevin Driedger wrote: I wonder if a thousand years ago the readers of the world thought that only certain people had an aptitude for reading. = As a professional coder and father of young children I find Dethe's anecdote of teaching his children to

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-19 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 12:20 PM, Steve Dekorte wrote: From this perspective we could see the history of programming as one of finding ever more natural mappings between how our minds work and how we can get machines to do what we want - just as steering wheel and floor pedals map between our

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-19 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 2:33 PM, BGB wrote: in a sense, the metaphor no longer works, and should likely itself be left to fall into the recycle-bin of history. worse yet is having to read stuff written by people who actually take this metaphor seriously. Given the historical perspective, it was

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote: interestingly, I don't believe in getting rid of the file-system, per-se, as technically it works fairly well and is a proven piece of technology. Interestingly, I disagree entirely. Finding things is a pain for most people (including myself). Julian.

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 4:33 PM, BGB wrote: For example, when web programming on a specific web app, I use a web browser, a text editor, a database management program, a command line, and a couple other tools. It'd be nice to be able to fit these tools together into a pseudo-app and then build

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 6:33 PM, BGB wrote: I am not certain I follow how this would get rid of file-systems though... I am not aware of any good alternative to the filesystem which is generally better than the filesystem (can effectively manage huge numbers of files and multiple TB of disk

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote: hmm... S-Expression database?... sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store. or such... I'd like to know if you think there's a difference between a filesystem and a database... conceptually... or such...

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-20 Thread Julian Leviston
Hi... (see below)... On 21/06/2011, at 3:42 AM, BGB wrote: On 6/20/2011 3:22 AM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 20/06/2011, at 8:06 PM, BGB wrote: hmm... S-Expression database?... sort of like a hybrid between a database and a persistent store. or such... I'd like to know if you think

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/06/2011, at 10:08 AM, Steve Wart wrote: So how can you make simple languages simple to use? Developers have been rejecting complex GUIs in favour of plain text. If Google and Apple are right, every program component isn't a file on a disk, but rather some network accessible resource.

Re: Age and Language (was Re: [fonc] Alternative Web programming models?)

2011-06-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/06/2011, at 12:35 PM, Max OrHai wrote: People who want a small language should be prepared to be somewhat idiosyncratic, if they want to express big or complex programs. I mean 'language' here not just in terms of a programming language definition but rather to mean all constructs

Re: [fonc] Richard Gabriel Guy Steele, 50 in 50 talk

2011-06-24 Thread Julian Leviston
On 24/06/2011, at 11:42 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: They gave that presentation more than once (I saw it a OOPSLA). Awesome :) Here's a version from JAOO'08, streams fine in Germany: http://blog.jaoo.dk/2008/11/21/art-and-code-obscure-or-beautiful-code/ - Bert - I actually

Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: In contrast, as you mentioned, TCP/IP protocol which is backbone of today's internet having much better design. But i think this is a general problem of software evolution. No matter how hard you try, you cannot foresee all kinds of

Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 1:33 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: On 25 July 2011 16:16, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: Interestingly that many today's trendy and popular things (which we know today as web) were invented as a temporary solution

Intention Implementation - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 1:43 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: (quotes are broken) On 25 July 2011 16:26, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: On 26/07/2011, at 12:03 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote: In contrast, as you mentioned, TCP/IP protocol which is backbone of today's internet having much

Re: Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: You lost me here. My attitude to Ruby is same as to Perl: lets take bit from here, bit from there, mix well everything and voila! , we having new programming language. It may be good for cooking recipe, but definitely not very good for

Re: Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: But for programming its a bit different: you giving to people a tool which they will use to craft their own products. And depending on how good/bad this tool are, the end product's quality will vary. And also, it would be too good to be

Re: Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-25 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 12:20 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: Say, for example, like making a telephone that is vastly more easy to use than all other telephones on the planet. Now, for tech geeks, it's not really *that* much easier to use... For example, when the iPhone came out, I got one, and the

Re: Growth, Popularity and Languages - was Re: [fonc] Alan Kay talk at HPI in Potsdam

2011-07-26 Thread Julian Leviston
On 26/07/2011, at 3:47 PM, Alan Kay wrote: But the dilemma is: what happens if this is the route and the children and adults reject it for the much more alluring human universals? Even if almost none of them lead to a stable, thriving, growth inducing and prosperous civilization? These

Re: [fonc] growing a language in pattern calculus

2011-07-26 Thread Julian Leviston
Hey UTS! That's just up the road from me :) Haha woo :) J On 21/07/2011, at 7:34 PM, Barry Jay wrote: Hi everyone, the paper Growing a language in pattern calculus is now available from http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/~cbj/Publications/glpmf.pdf The material of the paper links to

Re: [fonc] Messages

2011-08-20 Thread Julian Leviston
On 21/08/2011, at 12:22 AM, John McKeon wrote: On Saturday, August 20, 2011, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: (For example) Try to imagine a system where the parts only receive messages but never explicitly send them. This is one example of what I meant when I requested that

Re: [fonc] OT: Quake-derived engines...

2011-08-24 Thread Julian Leviston
understanding and not just a surface level attention. J On 24/08/2011, at 3:37 PM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 8/23/2011 9:54 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: I usually just leave off commenting, but I personally don't think this is appropriate for this list. fair enough, mostly just trying

Re: [fonc] More information about the text layout engine for paragraphs in VPRI Tech Report

2011-08-31 Thread Julian Leviston
vpri.og is working for me. Are you talking about Gezira/Nile? http://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki/index.php/Gezira Julian On 01/09/2011, at 5:40 AM, nchen@mac.com wrote: Hi I briefly remember Alan and other members of VPRI doing a presentation of the text layout engine while they were here

Re: [fonc] Google Dash and Harmony projects

2011-09-13 Thread Julian Leviston
Amusing, they seem to be saying that the platform is the problem. ;-) Now where have we heard that before? :-) God, Alan's only been saying it for the last ten years or something... Julian On 14/09/2011, at 2:40 AM, Stephen Pair wrote: My guess would be that Dart is the newer, official name

Re: [fonc] Language of Languages @ SPLASH 2011

2011-10-17 Thread Julian Leviston
Clicking the link http://www.squeaksource.com/LoLs.html Yields this: Internal Server Error Error: This block accepts 0 arguments, but was called with 1. Comanche/6.2 (unix) Server at localhost Port On 18/10/2011, at 7:15 AM, Douglass, Jamie wrote: Thought you would be interested in

Re: [fonc] new document

2011-11-08 Thread Julian Leviston
, try to say something specific and relevant to those who might have skimmed it. Which parts interested you? If you're referring to Sean's comment for recording the outreach events, please consider moving it to another topic. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Julian Leviston jul

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-16 Thread Julian Leviston
I like minecraft's take on this. Julian On 17/01/2012, at 2:31 PM, BGB wrote: On 1/16/2012 6:47 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote: Top post. Heightmapping can go a really long way. Probably not news though:) I am still not certain, since a lot of this has a lot more to do with my own

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-16 Thread Julian Leviston
The original topic was about getting the computer to create 3d worlds. That was what I was referring to when I said I like minecraft's taken on it. They use a seed to generate the world. Julian On 17/01/2012, at 3:26 PM, BGB wrote: On 1/16/2012 8:36 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: I like

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-17 Thread Julian Leviston
I guess this depends what you mean by awe-inspiring. David this sentence somewhat disturbs me, though. I grew up in Tasmania - a little island at the bottom of Australia... with some of the most picturesque (and as you say here awe-inspiring) countryside in Australia. I can tell you for sure

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-17 Thread Julian Leviston
No, I find it IS awe-inspiring all of the time. I may not necessarily be full of awe or actually be inspired at any particular one time... however, this doesn't change the fact that certain things or people themselves are awe-inspiring all of the time to me. In other words, if I'm in a bad

Re: [fonc] Inspired 3D Worlds

2012-01-17 Thread Julian Leviston
, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: No, I find it IS awe-inspiring all of the time. I may not necessarily be full of awe or actually be inspired at any particular one time... however, this doesn't change the fact that certain things or people themselves are awe-inspiring all

Re: [fonc] One more year?!

2012-01-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/01/2012, at 12:34 PM, BGB wrote: I was more giving it as an example of basically wanting to do one thing while being obligated (due to prior work) to do something very different. Yeah, sorry for diverging :) I actually realised that. say, if a musician (or scientist/programmer/...)

Re: [fonc] One more year?!

2012-01-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/01/2012, at 2:30 PM, BGB wrote: little if anything in that area that generally makes me think dubstep though... (taken loosely enough, most gangsta-rap could be called dubstep if one turns the sub-woofer loud enough, but this is rather missing the point...). Listen to this song.

Re: [fonc] One more year?!

2012-01-22 Thread Julian Leviston
On 23/01/2012, at 4:17 PM, BGB wrote: as opposed to either manually placing samples on a timeline (like in Audacity or similar), or the stream of note-on/note-off pulses and delays used by MIDI, an alternate idea comes up: one has a number of delayed relative events, which are in-turn

Re: [fonc] One more year?!

2012-01-24 Thread Julian Leviston
/wiki/OpenMusic http://www2.siba.fi/pwgl/pwglsynth.html https://github.com/digego/extempore On Jan 22, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: On 23/01/2012, at 4:17 PM, BGB wrote: as opposed to either manually placing samples on a timeline (like in Audacity or similar), or the stream

Re: [fonc] COLAs or CLOAs? : are lambda systems fundamentally simpler than object systems?

2012-02-12 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/02/2012, at 6:01 AM, Kurt Stephens wrote: On 2/12/12 11:15 AM, Steve Wart wrote: Can the distributed computation model you describe be formalized as a set of rewrite rules, or is the black box model really about a protocol for message dispatch? Attempts to build distributed messaging

Re: [fonc] COLAs or CLOAs? : are lambda systems fundamentally simpler than object systems?

2012-02-12 Thread Julian Leviston
Hiya, On 13/02/2012, at 2:47 PM, Kurt Stephens wrote: Read Ian Piumarta's Open, extensible object models ( http://piumarta.com/software/cola/objmodel2.pdf ). At a certain level, send(), lookup() and apply() have bootstrap implementations to break the infinite regress. TORT was directly

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-25 Thread Julian Leviston
Isn't the cola basically irrelevant now? aren't they using maru instead? (or rather isn't maru the renamed version of coke?) Julian On 26/02/2012, at 2:52 AM, Martin Baldan wrote: Michael, Thanks for your reply. I'm looking into it. Best, Martin

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-25 Thread Julian Leviston
thing one can download and run right now. Could you guys please clear it up for me? Best, Martin On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: Isn't the cola basically irrelevant now? aren't they using maru instead? (or rather isn't maru the renamed version

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-26 Thread Julian Leviston
What does any of what you just said have to do with the original question about COLA? Julian On 26/02/2012, at 9:25 PM, BGB wrote: On 2/25/2012 7:48 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: As I understand it, Frank is an experiment that is an extended version of DBJr that sits atop lesserphic, which

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-26 Thread Julian Leviston
;) On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:48 AM, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: As I understand it, Frank is an experiment that is an extended version of DBJr that sits atop lesserphic, which sits atop gezira which sits atop nile, which sits atop maru all of which which utilise ometa

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-26 Thread Julian Leviston
Hi, Comments line... On 27/02/2012, at 5:33 PM, BGB wrote: I don't think it was a prank. It's not really hidden at all. If you pay attention, all the components of Frank are there... like I said. It's obviously missing certain things like Nothing, and other optimisations, but for the

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-02-27 Thread Julian Leviston
Structural optimisation is not compression. Lurk more. Julian On 28/02/2012, at 3:38 PM, BGB wrote: granted, I remain a little skeptical. I think there is a bit of a difference though between, say, a log table, and a typical piece of software. a log table is, essentially, almost pure

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-03-01 Thread Julian Leviston
Is this one of the aims? Julian On 01/03/2012, at 11:42 PM, Reuben Thomas wrote: The biggest challenge for FONC will not be to achieve good technical results, as it is stuffed with people who have a history of doing great work, and its results to date are already exciting, but to get those

Re: [fonc] Error trying to compile COLA

2012-03-01 Thread Julian Leviston
to convince too many people who have so much history of the merits of tearing down the existing systems. Just a thought. Julian On 02/03/2012, at 2:04 AM, Reuben Thomas wrote: On 1 March 2012 15:02, Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net wrote: Is this one of the aims? It doesn't seem to be, which

Re: [fonc] Sorting the WWW mess

2012-03-01 Thread Julian Leviston
Right you are. Centralised search seems a bit silly to me. Take object orientedism and apply it to search and you get a thing where each node searches itself when asked... apply this to a local-focussed topology (ie spider web serch out) and utilise intelligent caching (so search the localised

Re: [fonc] Block-Strings / Heredocs (Re: Magic Ink and Killing Math)

2012-03-12 Thread Julian Leviston
On 13/03/2012, at 1:21 PM, BGB wrote: although theoretically possible, I wouldn't really trust not having the ability to use conventional text editors whenever need-be (or mandate use of a particular editor). for most things I am using text-based formats, including for things like

Re: [fonc] Block-Strings / Heredocs (Re: Magic Ink and Killing Math)

2012-03-13 Thread Julian Leviston
On 14/03/2012, at 2:11 AM, David Barbour wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Josh Grams j...@qualdan.com wrote: On 2012-03-13 02:13PM, Julian Leviston wrote: What is text? Do you store your text in ASCII, EBCDIC, SHIFT-JIS or UTF-8? If it's UTF-8, how do you use an ASCII editor

Re: [fonc] Kernel Maru

2012-04-10 Thread Julian Leviston
I started on this yesterday when I received your email Ian, and I just wanted to say thank you (and Alan, too) very much for responding. I'm still interested in what your thoughts on Kernel are (and Arc, too, actually) sometime if you have a couple of moments to pen them... Julian On

[fonc] (Lisp) language implementation building

2012-04-17 Thread Julian Leviston
Hi Ian Alan, Further to your suggestion that I write a LISP interpreter, I'm about 90% of the way done. That is, I've built the following so far: - using Ruby - a Lexer into Ruby array structures for lists (Ruby Array array of arrays (etc.) at this point in the process), Symbol, String,

[fonc] LightTable UI

2012-04-23 Thread Julian Leviston
Thought this is worth a look as a next step after Brett Victor's work (http://vimeo.com/36579366) on UI for programmers... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table We're still not quite there yet IMHO, but that's getting towards the general direction... tie that in with a

Re: [fonc] LightTable UI

2012-04-24 Thread Julian Leviston
of the time are favoured by few. I think we need good theoretical approaches to problems like this before we can make any progress in how the actual real tools work like. Cheers, Jarosław Rzeszótko 2012/4/24 Julian Leviston jul...@leviston.net Thought this is worth a look as a next step

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