Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
hmmm I heard on the ag forum that a clean install, ie a reformat is better to load things. win7 has many licence types, aparently you can only use 1 key per unit but then so is xp and 7 and as long as you are carefull you can within reason use one key on as many units as you want so long as you waight a month or 2 between each use. I recomend getting retail or just downgrading to 7 or xp. I am in no hurry to upgrade, I am running ok on xp and 3 systems in my network run well on 7 including a small print server for internal network use. At 03:00 AM 1/25/2013, you wrote: Sorry, but it is true that this entire system has caused us really nasty problems. I think that the hardware is also messed up and not only the Windows DVD. Now I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to use the Windows 8 upgrade DVD I have on that system to hopefully fix some of the problems. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Sorry, but it is true that this entire system has caused us really nasty problems. I think that the hardware is also messed up and not only the Windows DVD. Now I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to use the Windows 8 upgrade DVD I have on that system to hopefully fix some of the problems. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Then I was right in thinking that her system was deliberately fucked up... A few weeks ago, I had to fix a nasty virus problem, which required removing the hard drive and look at it with another computer. The structure of the drive was messed up before that, so I had to recreate everything down to the file system manually. The point here is that I know where most of the files of any .net installation are located and this copy had no such folder of .net 4.0 files. When I installed said package on XP, I got over 300 MB files in that special folder for .net 4.0, patches and security updates not included... And all of them were really missing and the .net 3.51 files had to be installed separately, but as a Windows component. I think running a full upgrade to Windows 8 Pro on that laptop should deal with some components being messed up for good. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Ok, while we are talking .net framework here, I'd like to know something. When .net 3.5 and later .net 3.5 SP1 were released, there were two ways to install them (Vista or XP only). You could download and run a web setup program, or get a full package. I know that two such files were available, namely the .net framework 3.5 SP1 full package and a .net 3.5 Client Profile Offline Installer. What I never got was why the 3.5 SP1 claims to be a full package, while it *always* wants to download at least one file (XP). I think it is a language pack, but why it is not included in the file I don't get, since lots of files from Microsoft can be downloaded for different languages. And what I also don't know is if the mentioned Client profile installer for .net 3.5 is with or without SP1, and if there are some ways of getting either of theese as full localiced offline installers with no need for any automated downloads from within a 200+ MB full installer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Thanks Tom, I'm sure it'll help a lot...Have a great day...(smile) On 1/23/13, Ben wrote: > Could you please send me this information as well tom, as I want to see > what > you're using compared to everyone else. Grin. > > -Original Message- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward > Sent: 23 January 2013 07:37 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions > > Hi Kimberly, > > No problem. I just sent you a message privately about the free office > suite I use for Windows, and hope you find it useful. > > On 1/23/13, Kimberly Qualls wrote: >> Yes, I realize that must be a problem, from the other posts I >> read...That is one thing they don't have to worry about with me, >> though...lol...I'm not tech enough to know how to pirate...Oh, and I >> wanted to ask you about the open source for the (office like) >> program...I'm beginning to learn NVDA and I'd like to find something >> other than Office to use as well...Thanks for the info and Happy >> Wednesday...(smile) > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6049 - Release Date: 01/21/13 > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6049 - Release Date: 01/21/13 > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Could you please send me this information as well tom, as I want to see what you're using compared to everyone else. Grin. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 23 January 2013 07:37 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Kimberly, No problem. I just sent you a message privately about the free office suite I use for Windows, and hope you find it useful. On 1/23/13, Kimberly Qualls wrote: > Yes, I realize that must be a problem, from the other posts I > read...That is one thing they don't have to worry about with me, > though...lol...I'm not tech enough to know how to pirate...Oh, and I > wanted to ask you about the open source for the (office like) > program...I'm beginning to learn NVDA and I'd like to find something > other than Office to use as well...Thanks for the info and Happy > Wednesday...(smile) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6049 - Release Date: 01/21/13 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6049 - Release Date: 01/21/13 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Thomas. Could you please send me the same information, I've a client who would like some productivity software on her laptop but doesn't have the means to afford Microsoft productivity software. Thanks, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 7:37 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Kimberly, No problem. I just sent you a message privately about the free office suite I use for Windows, and hope you find it useful. On 1/23/13, Kimberly Qualls wrote: Yes, I realize that must be a problem, from the other posts I read...That is one thing they don't have to worry about with me, though...lol...I'm not tech enough to know how to pirate...Oh, and I wanted to ask you about the open source for the (office like) program...I'm beginning to learn NVDA and I'd like to find something other than Office to use as well...Thanks for the info and Happy Wednesday...(smile) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Yes, I realize that must be a problem, from the other posts I read...That is one thing they don't have to worry about with me, though...lol...I'm not tech enough to know how to pirate...Oh, and I wanted to ask you about the open source for the (office like) program...I'm beginning to learn NVDA and I'd like to find something other than Office to use as well...Thanks for the info and Happy Wednesday...(smile) On 1/23/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Tom I got a win7 cd iso for my brothers uni in 2010 late 2010 and it > was 3.51 with the dotnet 4 profile. > I upgraded to 4.0 extended client with the installer then upgraded to > 4.5 though 4.5 is mainly for the new bits and bobs for vc 2012. > ms was quite quiet in doing that though it was only because a few of > the units were on the blink I fiddled round with updating and found 4.5 > stuff. > > At 05:18 PM 1/23/2013, you wrote: >>Hi Michael, >> >>Not sure what I can say other than your mother's computer is >>definitely not the norm. Not as far as my experience with Windows 7 >>goes.. Every copy of Windows 7 I have purchased comes with .NET 4.0 >>preinstalled, but I might add it doesn't show up under Programs and >>Features as it is a system component. that said, there are additional >>.NET updates that can be installed along side .NET 4.0 such as 3.5.1 >>which installs backwards compatibility libs for .NET 2.0, 3.0, and >>3.5. The .NET 4.5 you speak of is simply an updated patch for .NET >>4.0. As previously mentioned Windows 8 comes with .NET 5.0 by default. >>That's about all I can say on the issue at this point. >> >>On 1/22/13, Michael Gauler wrote: >> > Hi Thomas, >> > I am in Germany, and so is my mother. >> > She bought a laptop a while ago with Windows 7 Home Premium. >> > And I can tell you the following (she is sighted, while I am >> blind, thus she >> > >> > did checking): >> > 1. >> > Her Windows includes a subversion of .net 3.5 which seems to be called >> > .net >> > >> > 3.51 (by default (pre SP1, which is not included in the installation >> > DVD). >> > 2. >> > There are two offline installers for .net 4.0, the full package and the >> > Client Profile. >> > I can run the full package on my desktop computer, which currently runs >> > Windows XP. >> > The same installation file for .net 4.0 I use, had to be used on her >> > laptop >> > >> > to install .net 4.0. >> > After this was done, she could use Windows Update to get patches for >> > .net >> > 4.0 >> > 3. >> > Microsoft announced and released a version called .net Framework 4.5 >> > which >> > can be installed on Vista and Windows 7 (if I am not mistaken), >> but I am not >> > >> > sure if this is included in Windows 8 or not (not Windows RT). It seems >> > to >> > be more an update than a separate version with its own folders, but I >> > might >> > >> > be wrong here. >> > I am not sure if this version of Windows was altered by the hardware >> > manufacturer, but theese are the facts, at least for this one Windows 7 >> > system... >> > >> > >> > --- >> > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> > list, >> > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > >> >>--- >>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >>please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding th
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Tom I got a win7 cd iso for my brothers uni in 2010 late 2010 and it was 3.51 with the dotnet 4 profile. I upgraded to 4.0 extended client with the installer then upgraded to 4.5 though 4.5 is mainly for the new bits and bobs for vc 2012. ms was quite quiet in doing that though it was only because a few of the units were on the blink I fiddled round with updating and found 4.5 stuff. At 05:18 PM 1/23/2013, you wrote: Hi Michael, Not sure what I can say other than your mother's computer is definitely not the norm. Not as far as my experience with Windows 7 goes.. Every copy of Windows 7 I have purchased comes with .NET 4.0 preinstalled, but I might add it doesn't show up under Programs and Features as it is a system component. that said, there are additional .NET updates that can be installed along side .NET 4.0 such as 3.5.1 which installs backwards compatibility libs for .NET 2.0, 3.0, and 3.5. The .NET 4.5 you speak of is simply an updated patch for .NET 4.0. As previously mentioned Windows 8 comes with .NET 5.0 by default. That's about all I can say on the issue at this point. On 1/22/13, Michael Gauler wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I am in Germany, and so is my mother. > She bought a laptop a while ago with Windows 7 Home Premium. > And I can tell you the following (she is sighted, while I am blind, thus she > > did checking): > 1. > Her Windows includes a subversion of .net 3.5 which seems to be called .net > > 3.51 (by default (pre SP1, which is not included in the installation DVD). > 2. > There are two offline installers for .net 4.0, the full package and the > Client Profile. > I can run the full package on my desktop computer, which currently runs > Windows XP. > The same installation file for .net 4.0 I use, had to be used on her laptop > > to install .net 4.0. > After this was done, she could use Windows Update to get patches for .net > 4.0 > 3. > Microsoft announced and released a version called .net Framework 4.5 which > can be installed on Vista and Windows 7 (if I am not mistaken), but I am not > > sure if this is included in Windows 8 or not (not Windows RT). It seems to > be more an update than a separate version with its own folders, but I might > > be wrong here. > I am not sure if this version of Windows was altered by the hardware > manufacturer, but theese are the facts, at least for this one Windows 7 > system... > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Michael, Not sure what I can say other than your mother's computer is definitely not the norm. Not as far as my experience with Windows 7 goes.. Every copy of Windows 7 I have purchased comes with .NET 4.0 preinstalled, but I might add it doesn't show up under Programs and Features as it is a system component. that said, there are additional .NET updates that can be installed along side .NET 4.0 such as 3.5.1 which installs backwards compatibility libs for .NET 2.0, 3.0, and 3.5. The .NET 4.5 you speak of is simply an updated patch for .NET 4.0. As previously mentioned Windows 8 comes with .NET 5.0 by default. That's about all I can say on the issue at this point. On 1/22/13, Michael Gauler wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I am in Germany, and so is my mother. > She bought a laptop a while ago with Windows 7 Home Premium. > And I can tell you the following (she is sighted, while I am blind, thus she > > did checking): > 1. > Her Windows includes a subversion of .net 3.5 which seems to be called .net > > 3.51 (by default (pre SP1, which is not included in the installation DVD). > 2. > There are two offline installers for .net 4.0, the full package and the > Client Profile. > I can run the full package on my desktop computer, which currently runs > Windows XP. > The same installation file for .net 4.0 I use, had to be used on her laptop > > to install .net 4.0. > After this was done, she could use Windows Update to get patches for .net > 4.0 > 3. > Microsoft announced and released a version called .net Framework 4.5 which > can be installed on Vista and Windows 7 (if I am not mistaken), but I am not > > sure if this is included in Windows 8 or not (not Windows RT). It seems to > be more an update than a separate version with its own folders, but I might > > be wrong here. > I am not sure if this version of Windows was altered by the hardware > manufacturer, but theese are the facts, at least for this one Windows 7 > system... > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Thomas, I am in Germany, and so is my mother. She bought a laptop a while ago with Windows 7 Home Premium. And I can tell you the following (she is sighted, while I am blind, thus she did checking): 1. Her Windows includes a subversion of .net 3.5 which seems to be called .net 3.51 (by default (pre SP1, which is not included in the installation DVD). 2. There are two offline installers for .net 4.0, the full package and the Client Profile. I can run the full package on my desktop computer, which currently runs Windows XP. The same installation file for .net 4.0 I use, had to be used on her laptop to install .net 4.0. After this was done, she could use Windows Update to get patches for .net 4.0 3. Microsoft announced and released a version called .net Framework 4.5 which can be installed on Vista and Windows 7 (if I am not mistaken), but I am not sure if this is included in Windows 8 or not (not Windows RT). It seems to be more an update than a separate version with its own folders, but I might be wrong here. I am not sure if this version of Windows was altered by the hardware manufacturer, but theese are the facts, at least for this one Windows 7 system... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Two versions could be offered. A lite and a separate download for the full version Sent from my iPad On 16 Jan 2013, at 21:59, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Tom and Dark, > > THanks for the feedback. As I tried to make clear in the original response, > playable demos are something that are being continually discussed and thought > about here. It's not an area where we are dead set on any specific course of > action. > > To clarify: When asking a user to invest $30-$40 in a title, we feel very > strongly that it was essential to offer a playable demo. > > In lowering the price, we have to balance the added overhead of managing > demos and accepting potentially higher levels of piracy from users finding > ways to exploit the demos. > > Using some random numbers just to illustrate an example… > > If five people do not purchase the game because there is not a playable demo > and no one of their acquaintance has a copy on their machine that they can > play for a few minutes, we've lost five sales at most. > > If we offer a demo, and an exploit means that 50 people pirate the title, we > have potentially lost a maximum of 50 sales, plus the time spent implementing > the unlockable demo, etc. > > And, just to throw out some real world numbers…just in what we've been able > to track, we know that MonkeyBusiness has been pirated by around 300 users at > minimum, and potentially many more. In an industry as small as ours, that is > not insignificant. > > We are not saying we will definitively not do demos…but it is something that > we need to weigh the pros and cons for very carefully, and make sure that it > is worth it overall. > > Sometimes, doing the best thing for the customer is costly. Our registration > keys, for example, are not tied to hardware the way, for instance, GMA's are. > We do this because we understand the frustration for users upgrading to a new > system, or who have multiple machines they want to be able to play the game > on. As a result, we've had to accept a very, very high rate of piracy of our > games. In bringing the cost down, it is harder justifying all of these kinds > of things, and we need to weigh each very carefully. > > Hope this helps clarify. > > On Jan 16, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I find myself in agreement with Dark on this issue of demos. While I >> realize Draconis is attempting to bring the cost down on new and >> existing games I'd still prefer to try before I buy a game. Even if a >> game is only $10 I don't really have it to spend frivolously. As I am >> married, have a family to worry about, etc I tend to watch every >> dollar and only pay for things that I am absolutely sure I want. >> Sometimes an audio trailer and a brief description isn't enough to get >> me to purchase a product. >> >> I'll offer an example here. I do not consider myself much of a Harry >> Potter fan. Oh, I've watched the movies, read the books, and for me it >> is something I can pretty much take or leave. So I'm not actively >> looking for games etc with Harry Potter themes. So something like >> Sarah would not attract my attention because of the Harry Potter type >> theme alone. >> >> Moreover I heard audio trailers, read descriptions of the game in >> early development, and for the most part I blew them off. However, >> when I got to play the demo of Sarah I became hooked on the game >> itself, and wanted to see more of the castle, see how far I could get, >> and it was the demo that convinced me to cough up the money for the >> game more than any other factor. So you see even if Sarah had been >> $10, which would be more than reasonable for that game, I wouldn't >> have paid because I didn't think I would like it until I actually >> played the demo. >> >> There have been other cases where my decision to buy or not to buy >> have been based more or less on the quality of the demo. If a demo >> isn't available I'm going to be less likely to pay for the game unless >> I have money to burn and have no prior commitments which is usually >> never. :D >> >> Cheers! >> >> On 1/16/13, dark wrote: >>> Hi. >>> >>> As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that >>> >>> bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This >>> might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is >>> extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an >>> >>> audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, >>> indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized >>> >>> the worth of games myself by playing them. >>> >>> I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from >>> the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun >>> the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much >>> tronol over events in the game and had to just hit bu
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Thomas, While we are talking technology here, I'd like to ask something. .net 4.0 can be run on XP and is not shipped with Windows 7 directly, what exactly does Windows 8 have? I heard of a .net 4.5 package which can be installed on Windows 7. While XP might be outdated, Windows 7 seems to be closer to Windows 8. This however brings the question of compatibility for Windows 7 when it comes to Windows 8 based programs (and I do not mean Modern Apps). --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I agree. This is why I've decided to go the Apple rout, because at least they care enough to give us a full-featured screen reader, very good TTS, and more stability than Windows ever had. I also love their email service, and everything else they provide. The only thing I miss from windows is MushZ, but gosh maybe Draconis can make an accessible MUD client. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com On Jan 21, 2013, at 6:14 AM, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Adding to what Tom says here, > > Apple's business model is much different from Microsoft's. While you are > restricted to running OS X on Mac hardware, one of the reasons is because > Apple virtually gives away its OS. In a way, it is their own form of > registration. If you have Apple hardware, that gives you the license to run > the OS. OS X usually costs about $20, making it far more affordable than > something like Windows, and the vast majority of users will stay current. > > There is, of course, the added benefit that, like game consoles, many mobile > devices, etc, by limiting the variations of hardware that the software may be > run on to a finite number, you can greatly improve stability. This is why Mac > OS X is so much more stable than just about anything else comparable out > there. (Microsoft is starting to take this approach with Windows Phone. It > limits the variations of hardware permitted by companies licensing the OS in > an attempt to improve consistency and stability.) > > LIke most things in life, there are trade offs. I happen to prefer the trade > offs Apple has chosen to make over those of other platforms. And while OS X > itself is restricted in its use, the Darwin base upon which it is built is > open sourced. Apple has done an exemplary job of finding a balance between > commercial and open source. > > On Jan 21, 2013, at 4:38 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > >> Hi Shaun, >> >> Well, here is the rub with that approach. >> >> One, it is not legal to run Mac OS on none Apple hardware. that is to >> say if a person installs Mac OS on an HP, Gateway, Del, whatever that >> is a violation of the end user license agreement so isn't legal. >> Assuming a person gets it running at all. >> >> Two, Mac OS needs a genuine Intel processor. If a person like me is >> running an AMD64 processor Mac OS won't run on the PC because it is >> not a genuine Intel processor.. Its an AMD processor. So right there >> anyone running AMD based PCs is screwed. >> >> So while it is possible to get Mac OS up and running on a PC through a >> virtual machine or running natively on the hardware its not that >> simple and straight forward. Even if someone successfully overcomes >> the hardware issues its not strictly legal since Apple has one of the >> most restrictive end user license agreements around regarding how >> their software is distributed and used on non-Apple approved hardware. >> As a developer I couldn't legally use that approach myself. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Adding to what Tom says here, Apple's business model is much different from Microsoft's. While you are restricted to running OS X on Mac hardware, one of the reasons is because Apple virtually gives away its OS. In a way, it is their own form of registration. If you have Apple hardware, that gives you the license to run the OS. OS X usually costs about $20, making it far more affordable than something like Windows, and the vast majority of users will stay current. There is, of course, the added benefit that, like game consoles, many mobile devices, etc, by limiting the variations of hardware that the software may be run on to a finite number, you can greatly improve stability. This is why Mac OS X is so much more stable than just about anything else comparable out there. (Microsoft is starting to take this approach with Windows Phone. It limits the variations of hardware permitted by companies licensing the OS in an attempt to improve consistency and stability.) LIke most things in life, there are trade offs. I happen to prefer the trade offs Apple has chosen to make over those of other platforms. And while OS X itself is restricted in its use, the Darwin base upon which it is built is open sourced. Apple has done an exemplary job of finding a balance between commercial and open source. On Jan 21, 2013, at 4:38 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Shaun, > > Well, here is the rub with that approach. > > One, it is not legal to run Mac OS on none Apple hardware. that is to > say if a person installs Mac OS on an HP, Gateway, Del, whatever that > is a violation of the end user license agreement so isn't legal. > Assuming a person gets it running at all. > > Two, Mac OS needs a genuine Intel processor. If a person like me is > running an AMD64 processor Mac OS won't run on the PC because it is > not a genuine Intel processor.. Its an AMD processor. So right there > anyone running AMD based PCs is screwed. > > So while it is possible to get Mac OS up and running on a PC through a > virtual machine or running natively on the hardware its not that > simple and straight forward. Even if someone successfully overcomes > the hardware issues its not strictly legal since Apple has one of the > most restrictive end user license agreements around regarding how > their software is distributed and used on non-Apple approved hardware. > As a developer I couldn't legally use that approach myself. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well on that reguard I was mucking round and came accross a site calle osxx86project.org aparently you need a legal macos and then need to image then patch it but you can run macos on a pc. not sure how legal it is but the site does state you need your own version. At 06:26 PM 1/21/2013, you wrote: Hi Josh, I just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with this post. Just because Windows doesn't offer a certain feature found on iOS or Mac OS doesn't mean that iOS and Mac OS users should be penalized and have said feature removed just because Windows users wouldn't have access to it. that's just the price of using another operating system. That is something I can understand better than most since I use more than one OS myself. That said, I agree that in some ways Windows is behind the times. Especially, older releases like XP that are really beginning to show its age. I don't think those users that hang onto XP realize quite how far behind the times they are and how complicated they make it for a developer to maintain backwards compatibility for their out dated OS. For example, since I do a lot of .NET development many .NET developers are using .NET 4.0 and expect to migrate to .NET 5.0 in the not too distant future. Now, I've heard Microsoft is planning on not releasing a .NET 5.0upgrade for XP which will make it impossible for .NET developers to use the latest .NET libraries and features on XP meaning they will have to roll back to .NET 4.0 to maintain backwards compatibility while forsaking .NET 5.0 features on Windows 8 which already has it installed and ready to go. Point being the end users reluctance to upgrade eventually is going to result in either developers refusing to support the older OS, or have to forsake features found on newer Windows versions. Clearly its a case were a person can't have their cake and eat it too. :D On 1/20/13, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Just one part of your message I want to definitely address. > > You wrote: >> But I really hope that whatever you are going to do with your engine and >> busines/sales model won't be harder to use for any user "just" because he >> or she has Windows instead of possessing OSX or an IOS device. > > We are going to do the best we can to make things as easy as possible, but > we're not going to make things artificially more difficult for Mac/iOS > users, just because Windows users are on a platform that may be more > limited. Apple platforms make things much easier for both the end user and > the developer in a lot of ways, and we will take advantage of those things. > Mac users, for instance, will never have to deal with registration keys and > online activation of their games, because they can purchase it from the Mac > App Store, which runs on the last three versions of Mac OS X. We are not > going to stop using the Mac App Store, just because Windows users can't > access it. > > Likewise, if Mac/iOS makes it possible to offer a feature that we cannot > offer on Windows, we won't penalize Mac/IOS users just because Windows users > may not have this option. > > In general, we are going to do what we can to keep Mac and Windows titles as > similar as possible, but we do have to work within the limitations of each. > > And, while I am sure many will disagree, Windows is, in the modern world, an > OS that is largely behind the times. That is doubly true, since so many > visually impaired users continue to run XP, and sometimes even older > versions. We will do what we can to support as many users as we can, but we > won't limit ourselves just because not everyone will be able to take > advantage of every feature. > > I hope this makes sense. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Yes it does in a way and I can understand that. I am not asking you to make anything difficult for Mac users because something is not possible for Windows. That's true. However, even if Windows seems outdated in some ways, it would be interesting to know how you think about Windows 8 and their own app store. Of course, this might be not big enough at the moment (for the VI community), but there are new devices with Windows 8 RT and the Modern APPs can be used on devices with RT and normal computers with their own Windows 8 editions. I am looking forward to the windows releases and I will definitely check them out once they are released. One more thing though. Somewhere I heard that the CD versions of the ESP games had some extras the downloadable and still current Windows versions never had. Since I never got such a CD, I am not entirely sure what theese contained except some form of game installer, but somewhere thinks like bloopers or such things were mentioned. OK, that's nothing new or expanded in comparison to the downloadable versions, but it was there nonetheless at one point. Since the current game versions (Windows) are not that big and can be played as demos or registered without having two separate files (one as demo, one as a full version), I can understand, why you dropped CD shipping. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I totally agree with your philosophy on this. I love your silver dollar game, and I really, really can't wait for more games from you. I think what you're doing, is really leveling the game-playing field for us mac users. Before, we only had RS-games. And even that wasn't a true audio game. Now, now we have so much mor ahead of us, I'm really excited for the future of the mac and games for the blind on that system. Devin Prater r.d.t.pra...@gmail.com On Jan 20, 2013, at 2:01 PM, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Just one part of your message I want to definitely address. > > You wrote: >> But I really hope that whatever you are going to do with your engine and >> busines/sales model won't be harder to use for any user "just" because he or >> she has Windows instead of possessing OSX or an IOS device. > > We are going to do the best we can to make things as easy as possible, but > we're not going to make things artificially more difficult for Mac/iOS users, > just because Windows users are on a platform that may be more limited. Apple > platforms make things much easier for both the end user and the developer in > a lot of ways, and we will take advantage of those things. Mac users, for > instance, will never have to deal with registration keys and online > activation of their games, because they can purchase it from the Mac App > Store, which runs on the last three versions of Mac OS X. We are not going to > stop using the Mac App Store, just because Windows users can't access it. > > Likewise, if Mac/iOS makes it possible to offer a feature that we cannot > offer on Windows, we won't penalize Mac/IOS users just because Windows users > may not have this option. > > In general, we are going to do what we can to keep Mac and Windows titles as > similar as possible, but we do have to work within the limitations of each. > > And, while I am sure many will disagree, Windows is, in the modern world, an > OS that is largely behind the times. That is doubly true, since so many > visually impaired users continue to run XP, and sometimes even older > versions. We will do what we can to support as many users as we can, but we > won't limit ourselves just because not everyone will be able to take > advantage of every feature. > > I hope this makes sense. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I will definitely wait and see what you can and will do, before talking about it either positively or negatively. It is true that lots of mainstream and small developers have found ways to do business like they want. But please let me tell you two things I have seen and of which I am not sure what to make of them. Not because change was introduced into a running system, but because the "players" seemed to not need that big change (from any economical viewpoint). 1. Egosoft: Said company developed the X series of huge strathegy and exploration games. Theese are in a science fiction setting. A game named X 3: Terran Conflict was released a while ago. Lots of patches and improovements were released during the post release time. Then, near the end of 2011 they announced the imminent release of an expansion named X3: Albion Prelude. This was offered as a stand alone product for all the people who got Terran Conflict before and with the latest version of Terran Conflict as a three disc boundle. However, out of the blue, this new boundle had to be (exclusiveley) used with Steam. Meaning, anyone who got this title on DVD had to install or use (if already present) Steam. The official reasoning behind it was to to ease and streamline updates because Steam could automatically download updates as soon as they were ready. Furthermore it was said that it would mean that they would have to pay less for their internet presence and it would take traffic off their servers... While this surely is true, I started to wonder, why this was done at this point. The older X games still don't use steam (when bought in a store), and the same old and new small or big patches (depending on the game) are still offered on their own web platform, and the Patches Albion Prelude got are not exceptionally big and most patches are cumulative in nature, so you wouldn't fill up your space with outdated files anyway. Besides, they run their own community with user created content and this probably takes up more space than patches, but it was not shut down or brought to another owner/place due to money issues... This shift seems not to be a new way of dealing with piracy either... 2. Betesta Softworks: More specific, the Elder Scrolls game series. Elder Scrolls Oblivion was released (Windows) as a stand alone offline RPG on DVD. There is downloadable content (free and paid) and two expansion packs were created. Now, we have Skyrim. This is the next title in the series. And again suddenly we have an offline play based game which you have to buy normally and to actually run it you again need a Steam account. It is again not a matter of delivery of updates or downloadable content (because the Betesta network is big enough to host such things). Maybe it could be a new atempt at better copy protection, but then we have console versions of this game. If you buy console games on a disc and not as a download you don't have to install third party software to run your game and you don't have to be actually logged into your account to run your game, even if you can switch to an offline modus in Steam... But to force to be connected to the internet for every (first) startup of your registered and legally bought program after you turned on your computer is a bit overkill. Even activating Office, Windows or even JAWS is not that hard provided you do not alter your hardware permanently. And same goes for IOS or Mac Apps you bought and have installed on your device or Mac. That's enough of me telling you this. But I really hope that whatever you are going to do with your engine and busines/sales model won't be harder to use for any user "just" because he or she has Windows instead of possessing OSX or an IOS device. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Josh, ok, I'm glad to hear that. And I didn't want to sound rude there, it just was something I wanted to point out. Well, I think if you found a solution for this problem I'll just wait and see what it is. Probably you are right and people will start complaining again just because it's different than before, but as I said these people are always there. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Sarah and all, As Charles rightly points out, there have been messages on this topic in both categories…those which are constructive, and those which are not. We absolutely do take the constructive messages with good points to heart, and think we have a plan that solves the issues for both the gamers and our company, largely as a result of this discussion. Things are going to change though. And I guarantee there will be those who will rebel. That's just the way of the world. I hope that most gamers will give the new ways of doing things a fair shot, before voicing displeasure. I certainly don't lump everyone in the same category. In fact, a couple of people who have chimed in on this discussion I've written privately off list to thank them for their points, if they were especially helpful. On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Sarah Haake wrote: > Hi Josh, > > well, I think you have to differentiate between complaints about changes and > real concerns. If someone complains about changed game music, well that's > just a complaint and a matter of taste maybe. But I think on the demo topic > it's not so much that losing demos would be a change, but that this change > would keep quite a few people from buying your games. You can take this > feedback seriously and make something about it, or you simply can say that > you don't care and stop offering demos. Yes, there are people who complain > about every change, but there also are people who have good reasons for the > things they say. And to be honest, I really don't like it to be put with > these ever complaining folks who have nothing better to do in live. I gave > reason for my arguments after all, more reason than just that I don't like it > at least. > > Besides, there even are mainstream games who offer demos, mostly the > independant game developers you mentioned do that. And that's because they > wouldn't get so many sales without one, because they are not so widely known > as the big companys like Sony etc. are. That's where their sales come from, > people try their demos, like the game and buy the full version. Even some big > and established companys offer public betas, test builds or sometimes even > demos before they release the full game. And I think it doesn't hurt them and > that this is a good strategy. > > Best regards > Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Dark, I can definitely identify with what you are saying. Although, my older desktops are pretty much glorified testing and gaming machines I still prefer using them over a laptop when I'm home. However, when I am out of town, visiting in-laws, etc I have my laptop with me and therefore I too need more than one key as it would restrict my access to said games half the time as well. So that is one of many reasons I am firmly against the concept of hardware specific keys. Its too restrictive for the honest paying user to use it on more than one computer he or she might own. Then again, some companies such as Microsoft only want you to run their software on one and only one machine. That is why they are pushing one license per computer. That's fine if a person buys all the computers with Windows installed, but if that person needs to upgrade all of them he or she will end up paying several times for the same software which I feel is wrong. Even site licenses aren't that affordable on an average home user's income. Cheers! On 1/19/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > Well at the moment the two machine thing is even more crytical for me, since > > I currently spend half the week at my own flat in Durham where I do tabletop > > rp, watch films and generally enjoy myself, and half the time at my parents' > > in Nottingham, where I am involved in a production f iolanthe, and where I > am also having singing lessons and lessons in spoken Italian. > > Thus, if a key is limited to one machine, it effectively means I can only > play a game half of the time, which is more than a little irritating, > > heck, even back in about 1997, when my parents bought a very small holiday > shalay in a seaside town my brother and I bought a second Snes machine so > that we could carry cartriges up and down, and thus have them at both > places. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Areed. That was a mistake Bavisoft made, that and ignoring customer questions and problems. If it hadn't been for the reviews Kelly did I would probably never have bought the Bavisoft titles. And by the same token had the demos not been available for the Draconis games I probably wouldn't have bought them. And while an audio review can sometimes be enough to bring in a sale I personally wouldn't rely onthat alone. On 1/19/2013 6:22 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: Each complaint or constructively critical and reasonable message should be taken separately, rather than having them all lumped into a category of complaints, as there is a huge difference between the two. This discussion of whether demos should or should not be made available has brought messages from both categories. I think that not making demos is a mistake, and a loss of one of the most valuable selling tool to a community that does not have, comparatively, a wide range of promotional tools for games designed with that community in mind. While it does drive production costs up, it brings in sales that you would probably not get otherwise. Isn't the key issue? Given the very small income of most of the visually impaired community, we're not likely to risk buying a $5 or $10 game we know nothing or very little about. We might, however, buy a $30 game we know that we will greatly enjoy, and being able to play the game, even one tenth of the full game, will give us a feel for the game, which just might make the sale. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Sarah Haake" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Josh, well, I think you have to differentiate between complaints about changes and real concerns. If someone complains about changed game music, well that's just a complaint and a matter of taste maybe. But I think on the demo topic it's not so much that losing demos would be a change, but that this change would keep quite a few people from buying your games. You can take this feedback seriously and make something about it, or you simply can say that you don't care and stop offering demos. Yes, there are people who complain about every change, but there also are people who have good reasons for the things they say. And to be honest, I really don't like it to be put with these ever complaining folks who have nothing better to do in live. I gave reason for my arguments after all, more reason than just that I don't like it at least. Besides, there even are mainstream games who offer demos, mostly the independant game developers you mentioned do that. And that's because they wouldn't get so many sales without one, because they are not so widely known as the big companys like Sony etc. are. That's where their sales come from, people try their demos, like the game and buy the full version. Even some big and established companys offer public betas, test builds or sometimes even demos before they release the full game. And I think it doesn't hurt them and that this is a good strategy. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- To shave\a da face, To cut-a da hair... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Each complaint or constructively critical and reasonable message should be taken separately, rather than having them all lumped into a category of complaints, as there is a huge difference between the two. This discussion of whether demos should or should not be made available has brought messages from both categories. I think that not making demos is a mistake, and a loss of one of the most valuable selling tool to a community that does not have, comparatively, a wide range of promotional tools for games designed with that community in mind. While it does drive production costs up, it brings in sales that you would probably not get otherwise. Isn't the key issue? Given the very small income of most of the visually impaired community, we're not likely to risk buying a $5 or $10 game we know nothing or very little about. We might, however, buy a $30 game we know that we will greatly enjoy, and being able to play the game, even one tenth of the full game, will give us a feel for the game, which just might make the sale. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Sarah Haake" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Josh, well, I think you have to differentiate between complaints about changes and real concerns. If someone complains about changed game music, well that's just a complaint and a matter of taste maybe. But I think on the demo topic it's not so much that losing demos would be a change, but that this change would keep quite a few people from buying your games. You can take this feedback seriously and make something about it, or you simply can say that you don't care and stop offering demos. Yes, there are people who complain about every change, but there also are people who have good reasons for the things they say. And to be honest, I really don't like it to be put with these ever complaining folks who have nothing better to do in live. I gave reason for my arguments after all, more reason than just that I don't like it at least. Besides, there even are mainstream games who offer demos, mostly the independant game developers you mentioned do that. And that's because they wouldn't get so many sales without one, because they are not so widely known as the big companys like Sony etc. are. That's where their sales come from, people try their demos, like the game and buy the full version. Even some big and established companys offer public betas, test builds or sometimes even demos before they release the full game. And I think it doesn't hurt them and that this is a good strategy. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Josh, well, I think you have to differentiate between complaints about changes and real concerns. If someone complains about changed game music, well that's just a complaint and a matter of taste maybe. But I think on the demo topic it's not so much that losing demos would be a change, but that this change would keep quite a few people from buying your games. You can take this feedback seriously and make something about it, or you simply can say that you don't care and stop offering demos. Yes, there are people who complain about every change, but there also are people who have good reasons for the things they say. And to be honest, I really don't like it to be put with these ever complaining folks who have nothing better to do in live. I gave reason for my arguments after all, more reason than just that I don't like it at least. Besides, there even are mainstream games who offer demos, mostly the independant game developers you mentioned do that. And that's because they wouldn't get so many sales without one, because they are not so widely known as the big companys like Sony etc. are. That's where their sales come from, people try their demos, like the game and buy the full version. Even some big and established companys offer public betas, test builds or sometimes even demos before they release the full game. And I think it doesn't hurt them and that this is a good strategy. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Shaun. If you install the game, install the update patch in to the game folder and run it as normal, you'll have a fully functioning game with update. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 7:38 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions its a shame kent has stopped. I am so happy I got it when I did. the update patch is the full version, but no sound ofcause. so if you play the patch then you are playing the full game anyway. At 07:02 AM 1/20/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun. I absolutely love future boy, I think its one of the most under rated games out there. For anyone who doesn't know, its a text adventure with video and sound, really good characters and story and for those people who aren't natural IF players, there are context menus to help you with commands. No one has ever written a solution for it which I think is kind of cool, however Kent Tesman has withdrawn it from sale and prudent enquiries by myself and others have been unable to determine whether it will be made available as freeware. I'd love to distribute it, however I doubt that would be allowed. A demo is available from the Interactive Fiction Archive or I could put it on dropbox. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:23 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Well I'd pay more for extra stuff it was the reason I got futureboy for the 25 bucks it cost me. True I could have payed 5-10 for the game download, or 15 for a cd in a case, however for 25 I got the game and the manuals and programming books and other extras free with it. You have no idea what extra goodies do, obviously you have to make them and that could be more work. Saying that futureboy is one of the games I mostly play, with sound, sometimes I read the screen, sometimes I go via the sound cues. At 04:55 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Hayden, I sure hope so. The licensing software in Railracer 1.x wasn't very good, and I really didn't like it very much. On 1/18/13, hayden presley wrote: > Thomas and Shaun, > I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. > When > you > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
its a shame kent has stopped. I am so happy I got it when I did. the update patch is the full version, but no sound ofcause. so if you play the patch then you are playing the full game anyway. At 07:02 AM 1/20/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun. I absolutely love future boy, I think its one of the most under rated games out there. For anyone who doesn't know, its a text adventure with video and sound, really good characters and story and for those people who aren't natural IF players, there are context menus to help you with commands. No one has ever written a solution for it which I think is kind of cool, however Kent Tesman has withdrawn it from sale and prudent enquiries by myself and others have been unable to determine whether it will be made available as freeware. I'd love to distribute it, however I doubt that would be allowed. A demo is available from the Interactive Fiction Archive or I could put it on dropbox. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:23 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Well I'd pay more for extra stuff it was the reason I got futureboy for the 25 bucks it cost me. True I could have payed 5-10 for the game download, or 15 for a cd in a case, however for 25 I got the game and the manuals and programming books and other extras free with it. You have no idea what extra goodies do, obviously you have to make them and that could be more work. Saying that futureboy is one of the games I mostly play, with sound, sometimes I read the screen, sometimes I go via the sound cues. At 04:55 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Hayden, I sure hope so. The licensing software in Railracer 1.x wasn't very good, and I really didn't like it very much. On 1/18/13, hayden presley wrote: > Thomas and Shaun, > I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. > When > you > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Shaun. I absolutely love future boy, I think its one of the most under rated games out there. For anyone who doesn't know, its a text adventure with video and sound, really good characters and story and for those people who aren't natural IF players, there are context menus to help you with commands. No one has ever written a solution for it which I think is kind of cool, however Kent Tesman has withdrawn it from sale and prudent enquiries by myself and others have been unable to determine whether it will be made available as freeware. I'd love to distribute it, however I doubt that would be allowed. A demo is available from the Interactive Fiction Archive or I could put it on dropbox. All the best, Ibrahim. -Original Message- From: shaun everiss Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:23 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Well I'd pay more for extra stuff it was the reason I got futureboy for the 25 bucks it cost me. True I could have payed 5-10 for the game download, or 15 for a cd in a case, however for 25 I got the game and the manuals and programming books and other extras free with it. You have no idea what extra goodies do, obviously you have to make them and that could be more work. Saying that futureboy is one of the games I mostly play, with sound, sometimes I read the screen, sometimes I go via the sound cues. At 04:55 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Hayden, I sure hope so. The licensing software in Railracer 1.x wasn't very good, and I really didn't like it very much. On 1/18/13, hayden presley wrote: > Thomas and Shaun, > I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. > When > you > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well as I've often said I'd be the first to desire more elaborate and full featured titles, which is another reason I wouldn't support piracy of audio games. My point as regards demos wasn't so much that the current 15 day demos had to stay, or things had to be the same, merely that having no way to play a game before committing financially to it is not a good state of affairs, especially in the current financial climate and given the fact that there are now actually a lot more accessible games around than there used to be, albeit they're still a drop in the ocean compared to mainstream games. What method Draconis chooses for a trial system is quite flexible. For example, I wouldn't mind if instead of demos, Draconis had paid downloads and some sort of 7 day return policy, (say the software expired after 7 days if not registered), since then if someone did! buy a game they didn't enjoy, they could always get their cash back. My point was simply that having no demos would be a bad situation. btw, I actually disagree on the community staying the same. 7 years ago when I first started on audio games, the main developers were gma, draconis, bsc, vip gameszone and lworks. Some of those are still selling games, but only three are actively still developing, gma, draconis and Lworks, and even among those three some have been pretty quiet for long periods. Aprone, Shard Workshop, and probably most completely blastbay have very much changed things, and there are also now many smaller developers such as Dragon aps and Pontes games who produce some quite high quality but often less ambicious projects. things have actually changed quite a bit over the last three years particularly, indeed these days the bar is a good bit higher and there are far more people experimenting, not to mention a lot of new developers specifically aimed at ios and some very high quality games on that platform. what really showed this to me was super Egghunt plus. even 4 years ago, this would have had a major impact on the community and been regarded as a pretty revolutionary title. Now, while it is a solid and well designed game, it is not regarded as the pinacle of achievement, simply because things have progressed. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
well automatic key replacements will be good but then having static keys means your users can load everything on any box there is the piracy issue though. cds, well I guess I understand it, loads of stuff is downloaded these days anyway. At 05:21 AM 1/20/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, We hope to produce games, in time, that are much more elaborate and wider in scope, much like the video games you mention. It will be tough to justify putting that much effort into titles unless piracy can be curbed and the community accepts that things may need to change in order to get more elaborate titles. Every time there is any hint of change, there are those in the community who want to hit the breaks and try to prevent the industry from moving forward. Cases in point are when we stopped offering registration key replacements, stopped offering CD's, or even contemplated that perhaps the time for demos may have run its course. We got hate mail over the change of menu music in ChangeReaction back in 2006, when we decided to stop using the copyrighted material James had used in the game. Insanity. Overreact much? Talk about a change reaction LOL. The sheer volume of sales in the mainstream video game market is not the only reason why that market gets elaborate titles. Plenty of small and indy developers produce some very high quality games. Some are even able to carve out a living doing it, despite fierce competition from the big boys. In part, this is because they have experimented and found new ways of doing business that, in the end, is beneficial to both the gamers and the developers. We may have come up with a solution to the demo situation something we are going to be discussing in depth tomorrow but it is not going to be the same as it has been. I have no doubt that many will voice their displeasure at change once more. In looking around the industry, I don't see that it has changed radically in the last decade. Some old debs are still around. Some new ones have come on the scene. There are a few new things here and there. Call us overly ambitious if you will, but we're going to do what we can to, eventually, move this industry forward. On Jan 19, 2013, at 9:37 AM, "dark" wrote: > Hi Sarah. > > I agree. The first game I bought was shades of doom, and it is still! a game I stick on occasionally for a quick blast, even though i bought it nearly 7 years ago now, that is very different from the pizza it I ate last night which is now (mostly), gone. > > As to mainstream games, you make a good point there too, and I certainly know plenty of people who do not buy games upon first release, but tend to wait and see what their friends or reviews say, indeed some people at my rp group tend to borrow games from friends before bomitting cash. > > It is also worth noting that often with mainstream games, the games are so long that even if a player does not like particular segments or aspects of the game, there is very much more that they will! like. > > For example, my brother was not a fan of the structure in final fantasy 13, because unlike other final fantasy games it did not provide the ability to wander around the world and explore until you got to nearly the very end of the game, and also it rewarded people for quick, aggressive playing that gambles heavily on the odds to win rather than the more tactical and highly prepared but sure to win style my brother prefers. > > All this being said however there was a great deal in the game he did! enjoy, including the plot and characters, as well as the setting and certain aspects of the equip and party system, and he'd thus be quite likely to buy another ff game for those aspects despite his dislike of several things in 13. > > Audio games however are never so wide or diverse in this way and odds are if you don't like certain aspects of them at the start, other aspects won't change your mind later on because with allowances for difficulty changing and so on, even a game like Entombed has a similar gameplay and style at the start to what it does at the end. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well I'd pay more for extra stuff it was the reason I got futureboy for the 25 bucks it cost me. True I could have payed 5-10 for the game download, or 15 for a cd in a case, however for 25 I got the game and the manuals and programming books and other extras free with it. You have no idea what extra goodies do, obviously you have to make them and that could be more work. Saying that futureboy is one of the games I mostly play, with sound, sometimes I read the screen, sometimes I go via the sound cues. At 04:55 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Hayden, I sure hope so. The licensing software in Railracer 1.x wasn't very good, and I really didn't like it very much. On 1/18/13, hayden presley wrote: > Thomas and Shaun, > I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. When > you > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Dark, We hope to produce games, in time, that are much more elaborate and wider in scope, much like the video games you mention. It will be tough to justify putting that much effort into titles unless piracy can be curbed and the community accepts that things may need to change in order to get more elaborate titles. Every time there is any hint of change, there are those in the community who want to hit the breaks and try to prevent the industry from moving forward. Cases in point are when we stopped offering registration key replacements, stopped offering CD's, or even contemplated that perhaps the time for demos may have run its course. We got hate mail over the change of menu music in ChangeReaction back in 2006, when we decided to stop using the copyrighted material James had used in the game. Insanity. Overreact much? Talk about a change reaction…LOL. The sheer volume of sales in the mainstream video game market is not the only reason why that market gets elaborate titles. Plenty of small and indy developers produce some very high quality games. Some are even able to carve out a living doing it, despite fierce competition from the big boys. In part, this is because they have experimented and found new ways of doing business that, in the end, is beneficial to both the gamers and the developers. We may have come up with a solution to the demo situation…something we are going to be discussing in depth tomorrow…but it is not going to be the same as it has been. I have no doubt that many will voice their displeasure at change once more. In looking around the industry, I don't see that it has changed radically in the last decade. Some old debs are still around. Some new ones have come on the scene. There are a few new things here and there. Call us overly ambitious if you will, but we're going to do what we can to, eventually, move this industry forward. On Jan 19, 2013, at 9:37 AM, "dark" wrote: > Hi Sarah. > > I agree. The first game I bought was shades of doom, and it is still! a game > I stick on occasionally for a quick blast, even though i bought it nearly 7 > years ago now, that is very different from the pizza it I ate last night > which is now (mostly), gone. > > As to mainstream games, you make a good point there too, and I certainly know > plenty of people who do not buy games upon first release, but tend to wait > and see what their friends or reviews say, indeed some people at my rp group > tend to borrow games from friends before bomitting cash. > > It is also worth noting that often with mainstream games, the games are so > long that even if a player does not like particular segments or aspects of > the game, there is very much more that they will! like. > > For example, my brother was not a fan of the structure in final fantasy 13, > because unlike other final fantasy games it did not provide the ability to > wander around the world and explore until you got to nearly the very end of > the game, and also it rewarded people for quick, aggressive playing that > gambles heavily on the odds to win rather than the more tactical and highly > prepared but sure to win style my brother prefers. > > All this being said however there was a great deal in the game he did! enjoy, > including the plot and characters, as well as the setting and certain aspects > of the equip and party system, and he'd thus be quite likely to buy another > ff game for those aspects despite his dislike of several things in 13. > > Audio games however are never so wide or diverse in this way and odds are if > you don't like certain aspects of them at the start, other aspects won't > change your mind later on because with allowances for difficulty changing and > so on, even a game like Entombed has a similar gameplay and style at the > start to what it does at the end. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
hmmm when you? isn't that spyware, or is the message cut off. At 04:48 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Thomas and Shaun, I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. When you Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Wardenter your key, you create a .lic licence file which registers the game, and which you can back up and reuse whenever you like on that computer. However, you can use the key on ore than one computer. I myself am in thr process of converting to a Windows 7 machine and so put RR 2 on both systems. As far as registration goes, they both work just fine. Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Shaun, Well, the licensing system that Railracer uses is pretty crappy to begin with. I remember looking into it for some of my own projects a few years back and I was not at all impressed with it. The first issue was it wasn't all that accessible, and a lot of .NET developers have nothing good to say about it from security complaints, buggy code, to .NET compatibility issues. So I think RR could use some other security system to be frank about it. All the same I know what you are getting at. There has to be a balance between security and end user satisfaction. There is such a thing as being too secure and it can be a headache if the protection interferes with the customers lawful use of the software. At a certain point legal or not cracking does seem like a promising solution just to get rid of the annoying security system. Cheers! On 1/18/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well I aggree with you in that reguard but have my own opinion on > railracer. > I am not flaming che or anyone but to be honest to put it politely I > have been unimpressed with railracer. > Firstly after the beta was over and life got in the way interest with > the game tapered off some what. > Especially with the likes of swamp and tactical battle. > Long before that though I was having major issues with the online > activation server. > The one time activation code was fine so long as I kept the file > backed up. > However the program would frequently fail to activate or go online > especially after dotnet or directx updates and would sometimes just > plum not work. > Then rr suddenly stopped licencing itself. > To top it all off, the fact that pirates made che basically say users > had to buy the game for each new system really turned me off. > Yes I have a licence, no I don't want a refund, I got 6 months of > enjoyment out of the game. > rr2 is supposed to come out, and to be honest, with all the new stuff > out its a bit junkey and basic. > Don't get me wrong it was not crap when it came out like 5 years back, > for its time it was revolutionary but with the fact I may have to keep > buying the game for each new system and other junk I don't know if i > would be willing to repay for the game. > I think the way blindsoftware does it is good though I have had an > issue where pipe2 does not seem to want to register that is the > replacement server doesn't want to find my origional purchace order > and I need to contact support to get the key replaced manually. > I think there needs to be a ballence between secure and crazy though. > In the case of che, with the policy of railracer if the reg system is > for every comercial game and if the licences are the same as they were > for railracer 1.0 years back I doubt if I will ever buy the game or > legally play it ever for the simple reason that to buy a game I have > already purchaced because I need to buy a code for each system I play > on especially when I only have only 1 or 2 units I mainly play on well > mostly 1, is a real turn off. > And to be honest with other licencing systems out there well you be > the judge on that one. > I won't outright say the game was crap and I didn't get what I payed > for because I did to a point. > Its the principal that counts though. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and ca
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
20 would be better, ofcause being over the other side of the world I hardly have the cash these days to even think of shelling out on games let alone computers, and just when you get enough health or something gets in the way. I have already blown my budget this year for upgrades. everything from my tv decoders to personal things to electronics I use seem to be against me. So I scarsely get a game a year. Game packs of games are also what I look at, its the reason I brought smuglers last year. it was the reason why I got blindsoftwares arcade pack, and gmas pack. I should have gotten espsoftworks pack but never payed for a thing I really hate. if draconis ever offered dynaman, pinbal classic stand and extreme alien outback, ten pin ally and dynaman in a pack I probably would buy it. At 03:51 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Josh, Sadly what you say is true when we are talking about the small blind software market. There are too few people out there to make open source work, and games aren't the kind of thing to attract investors and donators the way something like NVDA would. That is why even though I am a promoter and supporter of the open source initiative I know I would never make enough off my games to cover the costs of development so have went the way of commercial licensing. That said, I think we are in many ways on the same track. With the U.S. economy in a re session, inflation on the rise, and the cost of living going up I've been reconsidering the cost of developing my games and trying to figure out how to raise the income I need while making it affordable for the average customer. Clearly a commercial model is the only way to go about it, but I don't need to charge $35 per game. I could cut cost down to $20 and still make enough to cover the cost of development which might make it easier for our customers to pay for games in these financially troubled times. Cheers! On 1/18/13, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Tom, > > While open source certainly has a place (Apple's one of the largest open > source contributors in the world, between spearheading the Darwin and Webkit > projects) it is next to impossible to build a business with it, especially > in the visually impaired community, who have been largely conditioned to not > paying for things. > > While Android marketshare is equal or surpassing iOS marketshare in some > places, Google actually earns more money from its iOS apps than Android as > an entire platform. Developers develop software for iOS first often > exclusively because there is little to no money to be made on Android. And > it goes on and on. > > For years, I've run Maccessibility.net. We receive thousands of visitors > every single day, (at times tens of thousands), and though we ask for > donations, we've never received enough to even cover a month's worth of > hosting cost. The podcasts, articles, news links, etc are offered for free, > and everyone simply takes them. That's just the way it is. > > I actually like open source to a large degree, but in general, you cannot > build a business, especially a small business, on open source. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I would have to reinstall the demos to give you the exact error message for Ten Pin Alley, but I do know for a fact that my Desktop Computer with modern hardware (two or three years old) can't run TPA 1.2 under XP, while I have no problems with your other titles and I have DirectX properly installed, .net Framework, VB 6 libraries and Visual C++ Runtime 2005 and 2008 as well. I know of two or three more XP computers (not my own ones), where it also was absolutely impossible to get the game to work at all. I have both versions, version 1.1 and 1.2. Version 1.1 runs fine under XP, but not 1.2. I know at least one friend with two Windows 7 computers and he told me that he could run the latest version of the game properly. He didn't even know that his version is 1.2 while you list it as version 1.1 on your game download page. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I aggree with you there. nothing is really free. Ofcause I can't afford cash per say for donating, but I can donate time and other things which I always say to those that ask me what I can do that I will do it. Saying that if I ever get a good job and actually find myself with a load of cash I have a list of sites on my drive from add supported and addware supported sites of software I use like dvdvideosoftwand softwarepatch to well other things. It may never happen but if it does then it does. I am not sure how many these days wouldn't if they were in the positon to unless they get to greedy for themselves. At 03:18 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Tom, While open source certainly has a place (Apple's one of the largest open source contributors in the world, between spearheading the Darwin and Webkit projects) it is next to impossible to build a business with it, especially in the visually impaired community, who have been largely conditioned to not paying for things. While Android marketshare is equal or surpassing iOS marketshare in some places, Google actually earns more money from its iOS apps than Android as an entire platform. Developers develop software for iOS first often exclusively because there is little to no money to be made on Android. And it goes on and on. For years, I've run Maccessibility.net. We receive thousands of visitors every single day, (at times tens of thousands), and though we ask for donations, we've never received enough to even cover a month's worth of hosting cost. The podcasts, articles, news links, etc are offered for free, and everyone simply takes them. That's just the way it is. I actually like open source to a large degree, but in general, you cannot build a business, especially a small business, on open source. On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:34 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Dennis, I definitely hear you there. Like everything else I think > companies need to change their copy protection schemes to keep up with > the times. I'll be the first to admit that piracy is rampant, but > there are usually ways to earn money without resorting to expensive > copy protection schemes. > > For example, the open source model seems to be working out well for > many open source developers. The software is free, but the developer > can earn money through tech support, through donations from end users, > and can raise money through other means. One need not resort to > hardware specific keys, Internet activation, and other schemes to make > money. > > The other issue is cost. If something is generally affordable, > something the average consumer can reasonably pay for, then it makes > it not worth pirating it. Most people won't steel something they feel > they can afford on their income. > > For example, I have purchased many movies out of Wal-Mart's $5.00 > movie bin. Some I've seen before others not, but I can own the movie > on DVD for about the same cost as renting it. In any case the cost is > low enough that it doesn't make it worth it to download the movie from > a torrent, burn it, print a label, and so on. I'm only saving like > $5.00.I'm not that much of a tightwad to penny pinch $5.00 for a > product. > > That's basically the point I was getting at earlier. Dark said some > people would pirate a game just to try it out. Maybe some would, but I > think most people wouldn't if the game was readily affordable. Most > people in the world have some core values be it Christian, Jewish, > Islam, etc and know steeling is wrong and want to do the right thing > most of the time. > > > > On 1/18/13, Dennis Towne wrote: >> As a game developer myself, what you describe here is why I don't >> bother with copy protection on AA, and why I've chosen to basically >> make it free to play. I want people to play the game and have fun, >> and if the game is good enough they'll donate to it and get some >> perks. If it's not good enough, they can keep playing and I can work >> to improve it. >> >> Demo versions made sense in the olden days when nobody had a network >> connection, but in today's world that kind of copy protection is just >> more hassle than it's worth. >> >> Dennis Towne >> >> Alter Aeon MUD >> http://www.alteraeon.com > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
well I aggree in the period the incription was on dvds, it still is for some stuff, I had to crack the dvd which I owned to get the audio off. I have to essentually crack the dvds I own to extract audio anyway, but encripted is harder. I don't want to be tied down to the box. now its all multi import which is another headake I won't mention here. At 03:13 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Well, the licensing system that Railracer uses is pretty crappy to begin with. I remember looking into it for some of my own projects a few years back and I was not at all impressed with it. The first issue was it wasn't all that accessible, and a lot of .NET developers have nothing good to say about it from security complaints, buggy code, to .NET compatibility issues. So I think RR could use some other security system to be frank about it. All the same I know what you are getting at. There has to be a balance between security and end user satisfaction. There is such a thing as being too secure and it can be a headache if the protection interferes with the customers lawful use of the software. At a certain point legal or not cracking does seem like a promising solution just to get rid of the annoying security system. Cheers! On 1/18/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well I aggree with you in that reguard but have my own opinion on > railracer. > I am not flaming che or anyone but to be honest to put it politely I > have been unimpressed with railracer. > Firstly after the beta was over and life got in the way interest with > the game tapered off some what. > Especially with the likes of swamp and tactical battle. > Long before that though I was having major issues with the online > activation server. > The one time activation code was fine so long as I kept the file backed > up. > However the program would frequently fail to activate or go online > especially after dotnet or directx updates and would sometimes just > plum not work. > Then rr suddenly stopped licencing itself. > To top it all off, the fact that pirates made che basically say users > had to buy the game for each new system really turned me off. > Yes I have a licence, no I don't want a refund, I got 6 months of > enjoyment out of the game. > rr2 is supposed to come out, and to be honest, with all the new stuff > out its a bit junkey and basic. > Don't get me wrong it was not crap when it came out like 5 years > back, for its time it was revolutionary but with the fact I may have > to keep buying the game for each new system and other junk I don't > know if i would be willing to repay for the game. > I think the way blindsoftware does it is good though I have had an > issue where pipe2 does not seem to want to register that is the > replacement server doesn't want to find my origional purchace order > and I need to contact support to get the key replaced manually. > I think there needs to be a ballence between secure and crazy though. > In the case of che, with the policy of railracer if the reg system is > for every comercial game and if the licences are the same as they > were for railracer 1.0 years back I doubt if I will ever buy the game > or legally play it ever for the simple reason that to buy a game I > have already purchaced because I need to buy a code for each system > I play on especially when I only have only 1 or 2 units I mainly play > on well mostly 1, is a real turn off. > And to be honest with other licencing systems out there well you be > the judge on that one. > I won't outright say the game was crap and I didn't get what I payed > for because I did to a point. > Its the principal that counts though. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
hmmm I'd pay $10 for a game instead of 30. ofcause if I didn't like I'd like the ability to trade it with someone that does. At 02:06 PM 1/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Josh, Well, given the choice of pay $10 for a game with no demo or $30 for a game with a demo I think I'd personally risk the $10.. Especially, for a simple game like Change Reaction or Silver Dollar which are decent games, but not worth $30 in my opinion. that said, I think I understand why a few would be willing to pay extra for a demo. It basically boils down to the fact there are some people who want to know exactly what they are paying for and apparently will pay extra to be certain what they are buying. Others, myself included, will be willing to risk a purchase provided the game is not expensive and there is enough information about the product on the website and the audio review piques my interest. For example, I've heard some audio reviews of a few iOS games such as Dragon Pass. I can say if I had an iPhone right now I'd be willing to purchase Dragon Pass based on what I've heard about the game on this list and based on the audio casts I've heard thus far. So I am willing to risk a small fee from $5.00 to $15.00 now and then if the game sounds like something I'd enjoy. So in short if not having a demo brings the cos down you probably are doing the right thing in the long run. While paying $30 or so for a game is not out of line I also know most blind customers don't have a lot of money to begin with and there are times when $30 is still too much. Especially, in countries where the exchange rates converted to euros, dollars, or pounds makes the product insanely expensive. So lowering the cost will help those blind customers have the opportunity to obtain legal copies. Cheers! On 1/18/13, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hello all, > > We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this > internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing has > been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* > > There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best > to make things work out for everyone. > > And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would > rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that > question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the > answers. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Sarah. I agree. The first game I bought was shades of doom, and it is still! a game I stick on occasionally for a quick blast, even though i bought it nearly 7 years ago now, that is very different from the pizza it I ate last night which is now (mostly), gone. As to mainstream games, you make a good point there too, and I certainly know plenty of people who do not buy games upon first release, but tend to wait and see what their friends or reviews say, indeed some people at my rp group tend to borrow games from friends before bomitting cash. It is also worth noting that often with mainstream games, the games are so long that even if a player does not like particular segments or aspects of the game, there is very much more that they will! like. For example, my brother was not a fan of the structure in final fantasy 13, because unlike other final fantasy games it did not provide the ability to wander around the world and explore until you got to nearly the very end of the game, and also it rewarded people for quick, aggressive playing that gambles heavily on the odds to win rather than the more tactical and highly prepared but sure to win style my brother prefers. All this being said however there was a great deal in the game he did! enjoy, including the plot and characters, as well as the setting and certain aspects of the equip and party system, and he'd thus be quite likely to buy another ff game for those aspects despite his dislike of several things in 13. Audio games however are never so wide or diverse in this way and odds are if you don't like certain aspects of them at the start, other aspects won't change your mind later on because with allowances for difficulty changing and so on, even a game like Entombed has a similar gameplay and style at the start to what it does at the end. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
If you want a demo. Then just make one level like GMA did and then when bought you get the whole game. When you put the key into the demo it downloads the rest to your computer. you can't get the download any other way and that could be locked to that computers internal devices. This would also let you have more than one computer hooked to that key, because those downloads could be logged. More than 2 or 3 downloads per key. That would cut down on a lot of pirating. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
The only thing you can compare between mainstream and VI games is game play. The manufacturing of games is not even comparative because they are major companies with more than one type of income. At 10:50 PM 1/18/2013, you wrote: Hi, You have to ask yourself, thogh, how many sighted people were skeptical enough not to buy it in coparison to the number who do. Sure, companies like Sony make more than a tidy profit for such games, but you have to consider the relative numbers. Comparing everything in the audiogames market to the mainstream market just does not always work. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Kai Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Greetings. While I definitely understand and can appreciate the value of a demo, remember that tons of mainstream games never have demos. they're sold on physical media, typically cost upwards of 50 dollars, and yet, they're making a killing in profits. I think the audio gaming community's just been spoiled by demos in the past, so can'tt countance the idea of trying a game on pure faith based off of trailers and word of mouth. I buy a lot of games for my Playstation, and have never complained that there wasn't a playable demo for me to gauge its effectiveness. Sure, sometimes you find games that cost way more than they deserve, or that completely fail to impress altogether, but this is the deal with products all across the board. Ever bought a pie to discover you hated the filling? Imagine the cost of food if stores were required to have samples of every item you wanted to purchase. Myself, I'd rather the developer devote fully to making the product, rather than forcing him to make a product, plus a crippled offshoot. Kai - Original Message - From: "Draconis Entertainment" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions > Hello all, > > We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this > internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing > has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* > > There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best > to make things work out for everyone. > > And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would > rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that > question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the > answers. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Kai, ok, just a few points here. First, you can't really compare foot to games. Foot does not cost as much, and besides you just eat it and it's gone. When you didn't like it, you just don't buy it again. But a game should keep you entertained for quite some time and is a purchase for some years and not one meal, so I would really think before I buy a game, much more so as if I want to buy something to eat. Second, when a mainstream game comes out there are many more sources of information. There are tons of websites with reviews, you can watch videos from gamers who got the game on the release date or even from testers. We don't have that with audiogames. There are maybe two or three podcasts on a game and a few reviews, but only long after the game was released and many games don't even have that. So there is nothing around what really could help us judge if a game is worth buying or not. So a demo is really the only way here to see something of the game beforehand. Third, as Heyden said you can't really compare the numbers. There are millions of mainstream gamers out there. Yes, there are those who buy the game just when it comes out, mostly because they know the company and expect great games from them or just because they can't wait. But there are many more who don't buy it at all or they at least wait a few weeks to see if the game gets good reviews. But because there are so many potential customers out there, the game companys of course get cash from that. Our market is just too small for that and as I said, we don't have so many reviews or gameplay videos etc. to help us decide. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. That is true regarding software, and I will admit I have done the same thing with cds before, namely swapping them with my brother or friends in order to copy them, and it is certainly true that many people don't have the appreciation for supporting audio game developers that you or I do, (I'd never copy a cd from a similarly small, independent musician either for the same reason). However, this to me points to need for demos, since if some less than scrupulous person downloads a game to try it, decides not to pay for it but keeps it on their machine either, you've effectively lost a sale, which was my point. On the finances issue, well everyone has their limits of what money they would hazard, however for myself I would rather hazard, and it is likely true that if a game like Silver dollar is only 2 usd (roughly the price of a bar of chocolate over hear), people would be more likely to hazard money, particularly because the game is so simple. For something like change reaction which is 10 usd however, I disagree, in fact change reaction was a game I always found difficult to understand from audio previews and am uncertain whether I'd enjoy it which is why i'd like to try it first, since 10! usd is a bit more than I would want to gamble (I probably would not buy a film or cd at that price unless I had some idea it was something I'd like either). While I think 30 usd would be too much for a game like change reaction even if I did! enjoy it, I would rather pay 15 usd for a game with! a demo than 10 for a game without one. Beware the Grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. Well at the moment the two machine thing is even more crytical for me, since I currently spend half the week at my own flat in Durham where I do tabletop rp, watch films and generally enjoy myself, and half the time at my parents' in Nottingham, where I am involved in a production f iolanthe, and where I am also having singing lessons and lessons in spoken Italian. Thus, if a key is limited to one machine, it effectively means I can only play a game half of the time, which is more than a little irritating, heck, even back in about 1997, when my parents bought a very small holiday shalay in a seaside town my brother and I bought a second Snes machine so that we could carry cartriges up and down, and thus have them at both places. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi, You have to ask yourself, thogh, how many sighted people were skeptical enough not to buy it in coparison to the number who do. Sure, companies like Sony make more than a tidy profit for such games, but you have to consider the relative numbers. Comparing everything in the audiogames market to the mainstream market just does not always work. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Kai Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Greetings. While I definitely understand and can appreciate the value of a demo, remember that tons of mainstream games never have demos. they're sold on physical media, typically cost upwards of 50 dollars, and yet, they're making a killing in profits. I think the audio gaming community's just been spoiled by demos in the past, so can'tt countance the idea of trying a game on pure faith based off of trailers and word of mouth. I buy a lot of games for my Playstation, and have never complained that there wasn't a playable demo for me to gauge its effectiveness. Sure, sometimes you find games that cost way more than they deserve, or that completely fail to impress altogether, but this is the deal with products all across the board. Ever bought a pie to discover you hated the filling? Imagine the cost of food if stores were required to have samples of every item you wanted to purchase. Myself, I'd rather the developer devote fully to making the product, rather than forcing him to make a product, plus a crippled offshoot. Kai - Original Message - From: "Draconis Entertainment" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions > Hello all, > > We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this > internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing > has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* > > There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best > to make things work out for everyone. > > And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would > rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that > question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the > answers. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Thomas and Shaun, I Think Che may be using a different licencing system for the new RR. When you Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Wardenter your key, you create a .lic licence file which registers the game, and which you can back up and reuse whenever you like on that computer. However, you can use the key on ore than one computer. I myself am in thr process of converting to a Windows 7 machine and so put RR 2 on both systems. As far as registration goes, they both work just fine. Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Shaun, Well, the licensing system that Railracer uses is pretty crappy to begin with. I remember looking into it for some of my own projects a few years back and I was not at all impressed with it. The first issue was it wasn't all that accessible, and a lot of .NET developers have nothing good to say about it from security complaints, buggy code, to .NET compatibility issues. So I think RR could use some other security system to be frank about it. All the same I know what you are getting at. There has to be a balance between security and end user satisfaction. There is such a thing as being too secure and it can be a headache if the protection interferes with the customers lawful use of the software. At a certain point legal or not cracking does seem like a promising solution just to get rid of the annoying security system. Cheers! On 1/18/13, shaun everiss wrote: > Well I aggree with you in that reguard but have my own opinion on > railracer. > I am not flaming che or anyone but to be honest to put it politely I > have been unimpressed with railracer. > Firstly after the beta was over and life got in the way interest with > the game tapered off some what. > Especially with the likes of swamp and tactical battle. > Long before that though I was having major issues with the online > activation server. > The one time activation code was fine so long as I kept the file > backed up. > However the program would frequently fail to activate or go online > especially after dotnet or directx updates and would sometimes just > plum not work. > Then rr suddenly stopped licencing itself. > To top it all off, the fact that pirates made che basically say users > had to buy the game for each new system really turned me off. > Yes I have a licence, no I don't want a refund, I got 6 months of > enjoyment out of the game. > rr2 is supposed to come out, and to be honest, with all the new stuff > out its a bit junkey and basic. > Don't get me wrong it was not crap when it came out like 5 years back, > for its time it was revolutionary but with the fact I may have to keep > buying the game for each new system and other junk I don't know if i > would be willing to repay for the game. > I think the way blindsoftware does it is good though I have had an > issue where pipe2 does not seem to want to register that is the > replacement server doesn't want to find my origional purchace order > and I need to contact support to get the key replaced manually. > I think there needs to be a ballence between secure and crazy though. > In the case of che, with the policy of railracer if the reg system is > for every comercial game and if the licences are the same as they were > for railracer 1.0 years back I doubt if I will ever buy the game or > legally play it ever for the simple reason that to buy a game I have > already purchaced because I need to buy a code for each system I play > on especially when I only have only 1 or 2 units I mainly play on well > mostly 1, is a real turn off. > And to be honest with other licencing systems out there well you be > the judge on that one. > I won't outright say the game was crap and I didn't get what I payed > for because I did to a point. > Its the principal that counts though. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom, While open source certainly has a place…(Apple's one of the largest open source contributors in the world, between spearheading the Darwin and Webkit projects)…it is next to impossible to build a business with it, especially in the visually impaired community, who have been largely conditioned to not paying for things. While Android marketshare is equal or surpassing iOS marketshare in some places, Google actually earns more money from its iOS apps than Android as an entire platform. Developers develop software for iOS first…often exclusively…because there is little to no money to be made on Android. And it goes on and on. For years, I've run Maccessibility.net. We receive thousands of visitors every single day, (at times tens of thousands), and though we ask for donations, we've never received enough to even cover a month's worth of hosting cost. The podcasts, articles, news links, etc are offered for free, and everyone simply takes them. That's just the way it is. I actually like open source to a large degree, but in general, you cannot build a business, especially a small business, on open source. On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:34 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Dennis, I definitely hear you there. Like everything else I think > companies need to change their copy protection schemes to keep up with > the times. I'll be the first to admit that piracy is rampant, but > there are usually ways to earn money without resorting to expensive > copy protection schemes. > > For example, the open source model seems to be working out well for > many open source developers. The software is free, but the developer > can earn money through tech support, through donations from end users, > and can raise money through other means. One need not resort to > hardware specific keys, Internet activation, and other schemes to make > money. > > The other issue is cost. If something is generally affordable, > something the average consumer can reasonably pay for, then it makes > it not worth pirating it. Most people won't steel something they feel > they can afford on their income. > > For example, I have purchased many movies out of Wal-Mart's $5.00 > movie bin. Some I've seen before others not, but I can own the movie > on DVD for about the same cost as renting it. In any case the cost is > low enough that it doesn't make it worth it to download the movie from > a torrent, burn it, print a label, and so on. I'm only saving like > $5.00.I'm not that much of a tightwad to penny pinch $5.00 for a > product. > > That's basically the point I was getting at earlier. Dark said some > people would pirate a game just to try it out. Maybe some would, but I > think most people wouldn't if the game was readily affordable. Most > people in the world have some core values be it Christian, Jewish, > Islam, etc and know steeling is wrong and want to do the right thing > most of the time. > > > > On 1/18/13, Dennis Towne wrote: >> As a game developer myself, what you describe here is why I don't >> bother with copy protection on AA, and why I've chosen to basically >> make it free to play. I want people to play the game and have fun, >> and if the game is good enough they'll donate to it and get some >> perks. If it's not good enough, they can keep playing and I can work >> to improve it. >> >> Demo versions made sense in the olden days when nobody had a network >> connection, but in today's world that kind of copy protection is just >> more hassle than it's worth. >> >> Dennis Towne >> >> Alter Aeon MUD >> http://www.alteraeon.com > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Greetings. While I definitely understand and can appreciate the value of a demo, remember that tons of mainstream games never have demos. they're sold on physical media, typically cost upwards of 50 dollars, and yet, they're making a killing in profits. I think the audio gaming community's just been spoiled by demos in the past, so can'tt countance the idea of trying a game on pure faith based off of trailers and word of mouth. I buy a lot of games for my Playstation, and have never complained that there wasn't a playable demo for me to gauge its effectiveness. Sure, sometimes you find games that cost way more than they deserve, or that completely fail to impress altogether, but this is the deal with products all across the board. Ever bought a pie to discover you hated the filling? Imagine the cost of food if stores were required to have samples of every item you wanted to purchase. Myself, I'd rather the developer devote fully to making the product, rather than forcing him to make a product, plus a crippled offshoot. Kai - Original Message - From: "Draconis Entertainment" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hello all, We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best to make things work out for everyone. And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the answers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Josh, Well, given the choice of pay $10 for a game with no demo or $30 for a game with a demo I think I'd personally risk the $10.. Especially, for a simple game like Change Reaction or Silver Dollar which are decent games, but not worth $30 in my opinion. that said, I think I understand why a few would be willing to pay extra for a demo. It basically boils down to the fact there are some people who want to know exactly what they are paying for and apparently will pay extra to be certain what they are buying. Others, myself included, will be willing to risk a purchase provided the game is not expensive and there is enough information about the product on the website and the audio review piques my interest. For example, I've heard some audio reviews of a few iOS games such as Dragon Pass. I can say if I had an iPhone right now I'd be willing to purchase Dragon Pass based on what I've heard about the game on this list and based on the audio casts I've heard thus far. So I am willing to risk a small fee from $5.00 to $15.00 now and then if the game sounds like something I'd enjoy. So in short if not having a demo brings the cos down you probably are doing the right thing in the long run. While paying $30 or so for a game is not out of line I also know most blind customers don't have a lot of money to begin with and there are times when $30 is still too much. Especially, in countries where the exchange rates converted to euros, dollars, or pounds makes the product insanely expensive. So lowering the cost will help those blind customers have the opportunity to obtain legal copies. Cheers! On 1/18/13, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hello all, > > We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this > internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing has > been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* > > There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best > to make things work out for everyone. > > And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would > rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that > question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the > answers. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Answers throughout: > *snip* > Thank you for the answer, but it seems that you are not completely correct > with Monkey Business. > I know three versions of the game. > One is old, and I mean pre-Draconis time... > The second is 1.8.11 or 1.8.12. > This one was there as an 1000+ MB download. > This one was unplayable without having an actuall registration key, which I > found out after I downloaded, installed and atempted to run it. > Then there came version 1.9, which gave the lab, the temple and the beach > levels as playable without entering any registration keys. *snip* There were far more versions of the game than those three. That aside, I was speaking of specifically a stand-alone demo app that could not be registered, and which let the user play the same three levels as 1.9 eventually allowed the user to play before registering. With 1.9, we retired the old demo version of the game for good. Actually, I think we may have retired it before that, anticipating the 1.9 release, but my memory is sketchy on that point. In any case, there has *never* been any version of MonkeyBusiness released by *any* company that was over 1000MB. *snip* > What I do however, is an issue with your current Windows version of Ten Pin > Alley. > You list its version as 1.1.0. > When someone loads it today, it is in fact version 1.2.0. > And for some strange reason, it cannot under any circumstances be run under > Windows XP. > I know that Windows 7 and theoretically Vista should work, but it is not > working for XP. > The still listed version 1.1 however has no such problems and it is not a > question of the game being registered or not. > You couldn't register the 1.2 release under XP, because you would be > confronted with a nice Run Time error, and all this happens on a system which > is more filled with older libraries and such components normally dropped in > Windows 7 or later by default. *snip* This is the first we have heard of any problems with TPA under XP. In fact, we know of several people playing TPA just fine under XP, so the problem you describe likely has nothing to do with the OS version. What I can tell you, and this goes for all of our titles, is that we are currently focused on revamping all titles to work with the new game engine. In doing so, the games will be modernized and streamlined. This should solve a lot of the legacy problems with older titles, especially the old ESP Softworks ones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Thank you for the answer, but it seems that you are not completely correct with Monkey Business. I know three versions of the game. One is old, and I mean pre-Draconis time... The second is 1.8.11 or 1.8.12. This one was there as an 1000+ MB download. This one was unplayable without having an actuall registration key, which I found out after I downloaded, installed and atempted to run it. Then there came version 1.9, which gave the lab, the temple and the beach levels as playable without entering any registration keys. If I remember correctly, and this might be wrong, there were reports of one level being skipped (bug?) once you would have registered your copy, which I did not do, but read about. A workaround supposedly was to copy a level file somewhere, but I might be wrong again. What I do however, is an issue with your current Windows version of Ten Pin Alley. You list its version as 1.1.0. When someone loads it today, it is in fact version 1.2.0. And for some strange reason, it cannot under any circumstances be run under Windows XP. I know that Windows 7 and theoretically Vista should work, but it is not working for XP. The still listed version 1.1 however has no such problems and it is not a question of the game being registered or not. You couldn't register the 1.2 release under XP, because you would be confronted with a nice Run Time error, and all this happens on a system which is more filled with older libraries and such components normally dropped in Windows 7 or later by default. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
As a game developer myself, what you describe here is why I don't bother with copy protection on AA, and why I've chosen to basically make it free to play. I want people to play the game and have fun, and if the game is good enough they'll donate to it and get some perks. If it's not good enough, they can keep playing and I can work to improve it. Demo versions made sense in the olden days when nobody had a network connection, but in today's world that kind of copy protection is just more hassle than it's worth. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM, shaun everiss wrote: > Well I aggree with you in that reguard but have my own opinion on railracer. > I am not flaming che or anyone but to be honest to put it politely I have > been unimpressed with railracer. > Firstly after the beta was over and life got in the way interest with the > game tapered off some what. > Especially with the likes of swamp and tactical battle. > Long before that though I was having major issues with the online activation > server. > The one time activation code was fine so long as I kept the file backed up. > However the program would frequently fail to activate or go online > especially after dotnet or directx updates and would sometimes just plum not > work. > Then rr suddenly stopped licencing itself. > To top it all off, the fact that pirates made che basically say users had to > buy the game for each new system really turned me off. > Yes I have a licence, no I don't want a refund, I got 6 months of enjoyment > out of the game. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
the thing with sponsored adds in podcasts is you are more likely to skip them just like you are more likely to close your popups rather than reading them. However if there is something I absolutely loathe its when a podcaster or reviewer reviews their own product, some of them can sound like the salesmen in a store or the adds on tv. They want you to buy, and I don't want to trust that its all good. At 07:24 PM 1/18/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, I agree with you in principle. Although, I can remember a few cases where I heard the audio trailer/trailers and wasn't sure if I liked the game or not. Despite trying to make the game sound great in the trailer in the end it was the demo that decided me to buy or not to buy. So to answer your question no I don't think a person can fully judge a product based on the add and end user reviews. In fact, I can remember cases where I got burned because of an add. As a kid I would get all excited about some toy or other because the commercials made it look so totally cool. When I finally got that toy for Christmas I was sometimes disappointed because it wasn't exactly as advertized. The TV commercials always made it look different than the actual product or hid things from the kids watching Saturday morning cartoons that were not immediately obvious until you saw the product in person. One of the more memorable examples of this is the Over Lord's ice castle from Black Star. Back in the mid 80's there was a cartoon called Black Star. The villain, the Over Lord, lived in a castle made of ice. Well, the commercial for that particular toy was shot outside, in the snow, with the Ice Castle in the middle of the snow. The kids with the toys were behind the castle with the Over Lord standing on top and another kid with Black Star out front. In other words the entire commercial was shot from the front and you never got to see the inside of the castle. As it turned out the toy was a pile of junk and wasn't as advertized. All the same I remember I begged my parents for the ice castle, and I got it for Christmas. Perhaps 84 or 85. When we got it out of the box and put it together it was obvious to me, even then, that it was junk. All it basically was is a large plastic piece that was the front of the castle, a plastic thrown for the Over Lord that set next to the drawbridge, and a cheap piece of cardboard for the floor. In short, a whole lot of nothing that cost like $20 or $30 at the time. Had I been shown the real toy as it really was I doubt I would have wanted it so bad, but the commercial made it so much larger and more grand than it really was in reality. In contrast one of my relatives had a Barbie princess palace that was 10 times more complex than the ice castle. It had beds, a winding staircase, tables, chairs, etc and while it cost more than the ice castle I would have given much to have a toy castle like that for my action figures when I was a kid. Too bad the Barbie castle was pink. Might have made a great castle playset for boys and girls. On 1/17/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Come to think of it, have you ever heard of a game, or any product for that > > matter, that did not sound great in the advertisement for it? With this in > > mind, can you accurately judge a product by it's ad? The same is true for a > > trailer. This is why I think that a demo is the most honest and best way to > > judge a game. You try before you buy and you be the judge. This is why I > am in favor of game demos. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well I aggree with you in that reguard but have my own opinion on railracer. I am not flaming che or anyone but to be honest to put it politely I have been unimpressed with railracer. Firstly after the beta was over and life got in the way interest with the game tapered off some what. Especially with the likes of swamp and tactical battle. Long before that though I was having major issues with the online activation server. The one time activation code was fine so long as I kept the file backed up. However the program would frequently fail to activate or go online especially after dotnet or directx updates and would sometimes just plum not work. Then rr suddenly stopped licencing itself. To top it all off, the fact that pirates made che basically say users had to buy the game for each new system really turned me off. Yes I have a licence, no I don't want a refund, I got 6 months of enjoyment out of the game. rr2 is supposed to come out, and to be honest, with all the new stuff out its a bit junkey and basic. Don't get me wrong it was not crap when it came out like 5 years back, for its time it was revolutionary but with the fact I may have to keep buying the game for each new system and other junk I don't know if i would be willing to repay for the game. I think the way blindsoftware does it is good though I have had an issue where pipe2 does not seem to want to register that is the replacement server doesn't want to find my origional purchace order and I need to contact support to get the key replaced manually. I think there needs to be a ballence between secure and crazy though. In the case of che, with the policy of railracer if the reg system is for every comercial game and if the licences are the same as they were for railracer 1.0 years back I doubt if I will ever buy the game or legally play it ever for the simple reason that to buy a game I have already purchaced because I need to buy a code for each system I play on especially when I only have only 1 or 2 units I mainly play on well mostly 1, is a real turn off. And to be honest with other licencing systems out there well you be the judge on that one. I won't outright say the game was crap and I didn't get what I payed for because I did to a point. Its the principal that counts though. At 06:47 PM 1/18/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark, There is no denying that the ability to play a demo is better than just hearing about a game via written game reviews and/or a podcast. I take your point about Railracer as I wouldn't have been interested in that game myself had I just listened to Che's podcast on the subject. However, when I played the beta I did find I liked the game as you did. Although, I think the real issue here is a question of ethics as much as proper marketing of a product. That is to say you freely admit you would have no whims about pirating a game if there isn't a demo available. Steeling a game is still steeling regardless of if the purpose is to tryout the product in the expectation of buying it. That's a bit like walking into Wal-Mart steeling a few movies off the shelf, take them home, watch them, and return to the store to pay up if you liked them. I think most people would say that action is unethical. However, as I've pirated software in the past just to try it out myself I'm not the right person to talk about ethics as it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :D All the same you have a point. Something like USA Raceway is based on American Nascar racing. That is to say it is based on an American sport, and the rules are different in Nascar than Formula 1 which Europeans are familiar with. Without a demo I'd be hard pressed to write a review or create a podcast that could convince people that my game is a better racing game than Topspeed. It would be easier to let them just play it and decide for themselves. Something else is an audio review or podcast can't really give a new gamer the experience of new concepts and ideas. Take my 3d game engine. I can write FPS games where you go forward, backwards, left, right, up, or down in a true 3d environment. I can write about it until my fingers are sore or talk about it until I'm blue in the face but can not pass on what that feels like nearly as well as letting someone play it for themselves. Cheers! On 1/17/13, dark wrote: > Hi Tom. > > another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game is > > very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail > racer. > > I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to > interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail > racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me > either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to it > > on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as > even less interesting than usual racing games. > > However bec
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
internet registration is fine with me, indeed it's one of my favourite options since it doesn't require noting down of hyper complex reg keys. The only real issue I have with internet registration is when it is limited to only one registered machine per customer as it is for vip gameszone, since I (probably like many other people), have both a desktop and a laptop and obviously like having my games on both machines so that I can play them when I'm out and about on my laptop as well as at home on my main desktop, but generally this isn't something that happens with most net registrations, since most will allow more than one machine per customer (supernova for example can be registered on three machines, as can entombed). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Michael. well Draconis have alreadysaid that the windows versions (whether demos or not), will be downloadable from their site directly just as they have always been. as regards your pinball question, while I completely agree that a demo is needed for these gamees since they are simpley less easy to understand in audio, it's a bit much to say that each table is a separate game. All have a basic underlying concept to them, and though some feature different minigames to score points, the basic pinball playing is the same in style for all it is done on different tables with different sound affects etc, rather the way you could be playing a different track and a different vehicle in the topspeed game, but still playing the same motor racing game. Myself, in terms of what tables I like, in classic I enjoy the Safari, Heist and haunted house tables the most because the sounds and design there are so interesting, particularly in Haunted house. Socker star is also pretty good for what it is though once I got the knack of how to always score a goal, I found myself less interested to play that table. Packman is a nice idea, but I never find it easy to know where your ball, the ghosts etc are on the table making it somewhat random. In extreme I like the sudworks and pinball extreme tables. since pinball extreme is challenging but has so many different environments and aspects to it while sudworks is great for it's audio design and minigame. Homerun is also fun, though in that table i find it a little too difficult to lose and usually get board of playing rather before I run out of balls. Alien invasion has some good sounds but is pretty tough to exactly line up shots, and can be somewhat frustrating if you get the wrong combination of alien ships appearing and can't knock them down, plus the minigame is largely wait and hope for that table. Merlin's lab was a nice idea but takes too long to get anything to happen, and most of the time I get pretty much the same four outcomes anyway. Topgun is the hardest of the tables, and provides some good challenge though as with alien invasion, the aspects of the game that were less pinball like were a little frustrating in that it was too easy to run out of amo and too hard to get more. As for party pack v1, I love all those tables, they are just plane awsome, whether it's fist fights in the bar or making old man stanley have a visit from the psychic fire department. Dynaman is also a really good challenge rather similar to pinball extreme. As you can tell, generally speaking the audio pinball tables were things I really liked, indeed I'd still regard them as some of the finest audiogames in the arcade genre, and one of the things I've distinctly hoping to see from Draconis in the future is more of them, whether in the form of a party pack vol 2, or just updates to the existing games. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Michael, You asked: *snip* > I'd also like to know how things are supposed to go in the future. > Mac users can use the app store to get your titles. > Regardless of the demo question I'd like to know how buying, optaining and > registering your games is supposed to be done once you are ready for Windows > releases. *snip* All of the details are being worked out, but in general, you will purchase the games via our website, just as you do now with the older titles. You will be able to download the games from the website, and there will be some kind of registration process to validate your purchase. Registration is likely to require an Internet connection…and I'm sure there will be folks who dislike that as well, sadly. None of this is finalized, and it may vary somewhat from this. Regarding your comments on demos… We always offered the MonkeyBusiness demo, as far as I can remember, it was just eventually folded into the download of the full title. The Pinball demos have always only allowed the user to play two of the six tables…so it was never a case of being able to sample all of the game play before purchasing. We have set aside some time this weekend to discuss the demo situation, and there are several options on the table. Ultimately, we want to do what is best for both our customers and our business. Everyone's feedback has been great, and we think we can address everyone's concerns. Hang with us. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I'd like to say a few things as well. When it comes to the question of demos, it depends on the type of game. I am here in Germany, and I know a few people who wanted to look at Monkey Business before you released the version 1.9 of it which included a playable demo. When I heard of it for the first time, I couldn't try it, at this point there was no playable demo of it. A few months later a friend showed me his game collection and there he had a few of the games you developed, but they were old versions from the time before Draconis Entertainment took over development of theese titles. There was a playable demo of Monkey Business, but it was really old and it was a permanent level limited demo, which meant, that it could not be registered or somehow exploited or cracked. That was just one example. Games like Silver Dollar might not need a Windows demo, if you can hear a good recording or trailer, because it is comparatively simple to understand regardless of which operating system you use. The Pinball games however are another story alltogether. Sure, explaining or demonstrating how Pinball is played in general via trailers or written instructions is one thing. But since each table in your Pinball games is actually like a different game alltogether, I am not sure if it is good to go without a demo. I am not a owner of theese games, but I'd like to know which tables the players really like and which ones they don't. I'd also like to know how things are supposed to go in the future. Mac users can use the app store to get your titles. Regardless of the demo question I'd like to know how buying, optaining and registering your games is supposed to be done once you are ready for Windows releases. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Somehow, it doesn't make sense to me that if you aren't interested in, let's say, chess, you would try a chess program to see how challenging it is, and it sounds like you are saying that you would do this. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Tom. I haven't actually! at this point pirated any games to try them, i merely pointed out that this is a motivation which I've observed some people have, and one thing I might considder myself if occasion arose, for all that I'd always want to support developers of accessible games as much as possible. Another way to considder things might be as borrowing, since after all back in the days before I tried many downloadable games, it was quite common for my friends and I to swap games around to see what they were like even if we didn't necessarily buy a copy. Of course, sometimes we'd borrow a game from a friend, really like it and want! to buy a copy (such was the case with weaponlord for instance), but that was by no means certain. On the experience point, One thing I have noticed is that the more complex the game in it's controls, interface and actions, the more difficult it is to understand until you have played it. A basic sterrio targit style game is relatively easy to know what is going on from listening to a demonstration, since after all all you need to master in the game are quick reactions. But something which is designed more completely as a realistic game where the user needs to develope skilsl in order to play, games like swamp, zero site, Lone wolf and of course rail racer are quite another matter. It was more this aspect I was thinking of with raceway. Frankly I don't myself know (or indeed have that much interest in), the rules of either formula one or! nascar racing because as I said racing just isn't something that interests me. if I bought a racing title, would depend entirely on whether I found the games mechanics and mode of play actually to my liking, which is something I could not determine other than by trying it myself. the same might be said for sports titles like Jim kitchin's golf or baseball. I have no actual interest in the activities of playing golf or baseball, and was therefore primarily interested in the games from the perspective of their challenge to the player, which is something I'd only understand by trying them. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
It's simple really. People want to know what they're getting into before they pay for it. And reading a description or hearing an audio trailer isn't always enough for everyone. An example of that would be Silversword a couple years ago. I'm sure a lot of people paid money for that only to discover that it didn't work with VoiceOver. And a certain list member pestered the developer too much and probably turned him off accessibility. Granted it's a slightly different situation fromthe one discussed here but it does have bearing. I've bought games based on descriptions and audio trailers only to discover afterward that it wasn't my thing. Problem was there was no demo, which would have let me make the determination without having to put forth the cash. On 1/18/2013 7:43 AM, Draconis Entertainment wrote: Hello all, We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best to make things work out for everyone. And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the answers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- To shave\a da face, To cut-a da hair... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hello all, We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink* There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best to make things work out for everyone. And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the answers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. that is the case about third party reviews, but equally I've noticed that reviews can vary a lot in quality. Generally speaking, the main reasons people tend to write reviews are if they absolutely love, or absolutely hate something, thus a large quantity of reviews tend to be either universally negative or universally positive, if something is "okay" people are far less likely to review it. this also means that people tend to either ultra praise good aspects or harp on about bad aspects quite extensively, which is again why i personally tend to take most reviews with a good pinch of salt, and with a review I would probably only be likely to get something if I really trusted the reviewer, and indeed if it was something in a catagory of games I already knew I liked. Thus, king of dragon pass is an rpg stratogy game, but since I very much like that sort of game, I was more inclined to buy it just! on reviews. The same may not be true for other game types, since if someone gave a massive praising review to a sports, racing or arcade game, they may enjoy that genre of game more than I do and are thus far more likely to praise certain aspects, or dam others that wouldn't bother me. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. I haven't actually! at this point pirated any games to try them, i merely pointed out that this is a motivation which I've observed some people have, and one thing I might considder myself if occasion arose, for all that I'd always want to support developers of accessible games as much as possible. Another way to considder things might be as borrowing, since after all back in the days before I tried many downloadable games, it was quite common for my friends and I to swap games around to see what they were like even if we didn't necessarily buy a copy. Of course, sometimes we'd borrow a game from a friend, really like it and want! to buy a copy (such was the case with weaponlord for instance), but that was by no means certain. On the experience point, One thing I have noticed is that the more complex the game in it's controls, interface and actions, the more difficult it is to understand until you have played it. A basic sterrio targit style game is relatively easy to know what is going on from listening to a demonstration, since after all all you need to master in the game are quick reactions. But something which is designed more completely as a realistic game where the user needs to develope skilsl in order to play, games like swamp, zero site, Lone wolf and of course rail racer are quite another matter. It was more this aspect I was thinking of with raceway. Frankly I don't myself know (or indeed have that much interest in), the rules of either formula one or! nascar racing because as I said racing just isn't something that interests me. if I bought a racing title, would depend entirely on whether I found the games mechanics and mode of play actually to my liking, which is something I could not determine other than by trying it myself. the same might be said for sports titles like Jim kitchin's golf or baseball. I have no actual interest in the activities of playing golf or baseball, and was therefore primarily interested in the games from the perspective of their challenge to the player, which is something I'd only understand by trying them. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I've never pirated, and I won't. As you say, it's stealing, which is not right. But especially for the developers of games for the blind, stealing hurts them worse due to the relatively small income they get from customers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Dark, There is no denying that the ability to play a demo is better than just hearing about a game via written game reviews and/or a podcast. I take your point about Railracer as I wouldn't have been interested in that game myself had I just listened to Che's podcast on the subject. However, when I played the beta I did find I liked the game as you did. Although, I think the real issue here is a question of ethics as much as proper marketing of a product. That is to say you freely admit you would have no whims about pirating a game if there isn't a demo available. Steeling a game is still steeling regardless of if the purpose is to tryout the product in the expectation of buying it. That's a bit like walking into Wal-Mart steeling a few movies off the shelf, take them home, watch them, and return to the store to pay up if you liked them. I think most people would say that action is unethical. However, as I've pirated software in the past just to try it out myself I'm not the right person to talk about ethics as it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :D All the same you have a point. Something like USA Raceway is based on American Nascar racing. That is to say it is based on an American sport, and the rules are different in Nascar than Formula 1 which Europeans are familiar with. Without a demo I'd be hard pressed to write a review or create a podcast that could convince people that my game is a better racing game than Topspeed. It would be easier to let them just play it and decide for themselves. Something else is an audio review or podcast can't really give a new gamer the experience of new concepts and ideas. Take my 3d game engine. I can write FPS games where you go forward, backwards, left, right, up, or down in a true 3d environment. I can write about it until my fingers are sore or talk about it until I'm blue in the face but can not pass on what that feels like nearly as well as letting someone play it for themselves. Cheers! On 1/17/13, dark wrote: Hi Tom. another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game is very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail racer. I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to it on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as even less interesting than usual racing games. However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself that the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing about it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game works is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the necessary judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear from a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for yourself. This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, but in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your own experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone similar made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? I know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that demo, and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre of games that I just do not generally find interests me. So if you for instance produced race way and had no demo, I would probably not buy a copy myself however good the game might be and quite likely even if someone made a podcast about it. In that case however I probably would be more likely to play a pirated copy just to see what the game was like, far more likely than if a demo was available in fact. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Lol charls, that is a very good point. it's rare that a trailer will say "play this game! it's sort of got some good points, but these things about it are bad, still buy it anyway!" :D. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
That's a good point. Of course an advertisement sounds great, that's what it's supposed to do. All ads are supposed to psych the viewer up for something. Evaluating the product to see how it fits your specific needs is really the only way to go. On 1/17/13, Charles Rivard wrote: > Come to think of it, have you ever heard of a game, or any product for that > > matter, that did not sound great in the advertisement for it? With this in > > mind, can you accurately judge a product by it's ad? The same is true for a > > trailer. This is why I think that a demo is the most honest and best way to > > judge a game. You try before you buy and you be the judge. This is why I > am in favor of game demos. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. > - Original Message - > From: "Desiree Oudinot" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions > > >>I agree with what all of you are saying. I would much rather know what >> I'm getting before I buy it. Even if a game sounds great from the >> description, I may not enjoy the game at all, and would have regretted >> buying it. As an example, I thought that Operation Blacksquare would >> be a game I would really get into. The concept of it sounded awesome. >> After trying it, I became very frustrated, and gave up on it >> eventually. It was much more difficult than I expected it to be. Now, >> granted, this is a free title, but let's suppose that it had been a >> paid game, and there was no demo. Even if I only spent 5 or 10 dollars >> on it, I still would have been pretty mad that I would have wasted >> even that small amount of money. >> >> On 1/17/13, hayden presley wrote: >>> You know, Dark, I was considering that about demo-less games. It is >>> probably >>> more likely someone will end up pirating the ting to give it a try, and >>> for >>> the less scrupulous among us will probably just keep the pirated copiy >>> they >>> were given. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Hayden >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark >>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:39 AM >>> To: Gamers Discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions >>> >>> Hi Tom. >>> >>> another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a >>> game >>> is >>> very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is >>> rail >>> racer. >>> >>> I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to >>> interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about >>> rail >>> racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me >>> either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted >>> to >>> it >>> on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me >>> as >>> even less interesting than usual racing games. >>> >>> However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself >>> that >>> the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing >>> about >>> it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. >>> >>> in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game >>> works >>> is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the >>> necessary >>> judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear >>> from >>> a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for >>> yourself. >>> >>> This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, >>> but >>> in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your >>> own >>> experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone >>> similar >>> made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? >>> >>> I >>> know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that >>> demo, >>> and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other >>> racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre >>> >>> of >>> ga
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Come to think of it, have you ever heard of a game, or any product for that matter, that did not sound great in the advertisement for it? With this in mind, can you accurately judge a product by it's ad? The same is true for a trailer. This is why I think that a demo is the most honest and best way to judge a game. You try before you buy and you be the judge. This is why I am in favor of game demos. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Desiree Oudinot" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions I agree with what all of you are saying. I would much rather know what I'm getting before I buy it. Even if a game sounds great from the description, I may not enjoy the game at all, and would have regretted buying it. As an example, I thought that Operation Blacksquare would be a game I would really get into. The concept of it sounded awesome. After trying it, I became very frustrated, and gave up on it eventually. It was much more difficult than I expected it to be. Now, granted, this is a free title, but let's suppose that it had been a paid game, and there was no demo. Even if I only spent 5 or 10 dollars on it, I still would have been pretty mad that I would have wasted even that small amount of money. On 1/17/13, hayden presley wrote: You know, Dark, I was considering that about demo-less games. It is probably more likely someone will end up pirating the ting to give it a try, and for the less scrupulous among us will probably just keep the pirated copiy they were given. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Tom. another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game is very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail racer. I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to it on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as even less interesting than usual racing games. However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself that the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing about it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game works is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the necessary judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear from a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for yourself. This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, but in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your own experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone similar made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? I know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that demo, and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre of games that I just do not generally find interests me. So if you for instance produced race way and had no demo, I would probably not buy a copy myself however good the game might be and quite likely even if someone made a podcast about it. In that case however I probably would be more likely to play a pirated copy just to see what the game was like, far more likely than if a demo was available in fact. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, pl
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I agree with what all of you are saying. I would much rather know what I'm getting before I buy it. Even if a game sounds great from the description, I may not enjoy the game at all, and would have regretted buying it. As an example, I thought that Operation Blacksquare would be a game I would really get into. The concept of it sounded awesome. After trying it, I became very frustrated, and gave up on it eventually. It was much more difficult than I expected it to be. Now, granted, this is a free title, but let's suppose that it had been a paid game, and there was no demo. Even if I only spent 5 or 10 dollars on it, I still would have been pretty mad that I would have wasted even that small amount of money. On 1/17/13, hayden presley wrote: > You know, Dark, I was considering that about demo-less games. It is > probably > more likely someone will end up pirating the ting to give it a try, and for > the less scrupulous among us will probably just keep the pirated copiy they > were given. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:39 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions > > Hi Tom. > > another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game > is > very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail > racer. > > I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to > interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail > racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me > either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to > it > on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as > even less interesting than usual racing games. > > However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself that > the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing about > it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. > > in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game works > is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the necessary > judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear > from > a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for > yourself. > > This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, > but > in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your > own > experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone similar > made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? I > know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that demo, > and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other > racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre of > games that I just do not generally find interests me. > > So if you for instance produced race way and had no demo, I would probably > not buy a copy myself however good the game might be and quite likely even > if someone made a podcast about it. > > In that case however I probably would be more likely to play a pirated copy > just to see what the game was like, far more likely than if a demo was > available in fact. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, > send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
You know, Dark, I was considering that about demo-less games. It is probably more likely someone will end up pirating the ting to give it a try, and for the less scrupulous among us will probably just keep the pirated copiy they were given. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Tom. another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game is very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail racer. I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to it on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as even less interesting than usual racing games. However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself that the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing about it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game works is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the necessary judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear from a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for yourself. This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, but in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your own experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone similar made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? I know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that demo, and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre of games that I just do not generally find interests me. So if you for instance produced race way and had no demo, I would probably not buy a copy myself however good the game might be and quite likely even if someone made a podcast about it. In that case however I probably would be more likely to play a pirated copy just to see what the game was like, far more likely than if a demo was available in fact. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I'd personally rather pay the $30 for a product I get to actually try before I buy. I know that the game I've tried from you in the past have been good, but generally speaking I am a littlee weary of a game which does not offer a demo. I've had similar experiences on my iPhone to Sarah in purchasing apps that, although they are cheep, add up over time. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Draconis Entertainment Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:40 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions One last point to throw out there on the demos topic. While there's been a bit of traffic on this list about this topic, it has come from only two or three users who feel pretty strongly about the topic. It reminds me a lot of 2007, when we announced that we would no longer be offering CD copies for purchases of our titles. We got a lot of email from a small group of people saying that we would lose all kinds of sales for this, that, or the other reason, if we didn't keep shipping out discs. In reality, it made absolutely no measurable difference to anyone, and was a knee jerk reaction to change. For nearly a decade and a half, there hasn't been anything significantly disruptive about the way in which audio games are offered. Generally speaking, and yes of course there are exceptions, developers have offered a demo that could be played and then unlocked for around $30-$40. We are experimenting with a different model now, and there is bound to be those who are uncomfortable with change. I'm not saying this is the case, necessarily, but just as an interesting hypothetical.if the choice, to all of you, the gamers, was between having great games that cost $5-$15 without a demo, or games with demos that cost $30-$40, which would you prefer? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi, just my two cents on the demo topic here. If there was no demo for the $5 game and I only get text descriptions before buying it, I certainly would prefer the $30 game with the demo. Yes, it costs more. But when I can try it before I can be sure that it's a game I really wanted. If I spend $5 on a game I only read about before buying, it's possible that I realize that I really don't like it when I try it out after buying. With the $30 game I at least know that my money is well spent. It may be only $5 I lost on a game I didn't like, but it's still money and it adds up if this happens to me a few times. I experienced this kind of thing quite a few times already with Iphone apps which had no lite version. I purchased the app and noticed afterwards that it's not accessible with voiceover or that it was not what I hoped for in the description. So now I don't do that kind of thing anymore. And most apps don't even cost $5, but it still adds up after a while. Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Of course, I would go for the $5, but that may be due, in part, to the fact that I know the quality of your games. Someone who does not know this fact may want a demo from an untried company. Just a thought. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Draconis Entertainment" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions One last point to throw out there on the demos topic. While there's been a bit of traffic on this list about this topic, it has come from only two or three users who feel pretty strongly about the topic. It reminds me a lot of 2007, when we announced that we would no longer be offering CD copies for purchases of our titles. We got a lot of email from a small group of people saying that we would lose all kinds of sales for this, that, or the other reason, if we didn't keep shipping out discs. In reality, it made absolutely no measurable difference to anyone, and was a knee jerk reaction to change. For nearly a decade and a half, there hasn't been anything significantly disruptive about the way in which audio games are offered. Generally speaking, and yes of course there are exceptions, developers have offered a demo that could be played and then unlocked for around $30-$40. We are experimenting with a different model now, and there is bound to be those who are uncomfortable with change. I'm not saying this is the case, necessarily, but just as an interesting hypothetical…if the choice, to all of you, the gamers, was between having great games that cost $5-$15 without a demo, or games with demos that cost $30-$40, which would you prefer? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
One last point to throw out there on the demos topic. While there's been a bit of traffic on this list about this topic, it has come from only two or three users who feel pretty strongly about the topic. It reminds me a lot of 2007, when we announced that we would no longer be offering CD copies for purchases of our titles. We got a lot of email from a small group of people saying that we would lose all kinds of sales for this, that, or the other reason, if we didn't keep shipping out discs. In reality, it made absolutely no measurable difference to anyone, and was a knee jerk reaction to change. For nearly a decade and a half, there hasn't been anything significantly disruptive about the way in which audio games are offered. Generally speaking, and yes of course there are exceptions, developers have offered a demo that could be played and then unlocked for around $30-$40. We are experimenting with a different model now, and there is bound to be those who are uncomfortable with change. I'm not saying this is the case, necessarily, but just as an interesting hypothetical…if the choice, to all of you, the gamers, was between having great games that cost $5-$15 without a demo, or games with demos that cost $30-$40, which would you prefer? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi all, Thanks for all the feedback. Never expected to start such a lively conversation over the simple topic of demos, and our internal debate as to whether to continue offering them. As we said previously, it is an issue with a number of factors involved, and we will be weighing them all carefully. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Lite versions are more common on iOS than Mac, but it is by no means a given that all developers do lite versions. The game engine works on iOS, so we plan to release titles for that platform eventually. On Jan 16, 2013, at 8:02 PM, michael barnes wrote: > Hey. > I agree with Dark. > I figure that Draconis was going to make a lite version of the games on the > Mac like other developers. > I do however have one question for Draconis. > Are you going to put the games on the iOS platform? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. another fact to considder, is that often the experience of playing a game is very different to that of hearing about it. A perfect example hear is rail racer. I do not myself enjoy racing games, they are not something that tends to interest me in the least. Thus I wasn't absolutely enthusiastic about rail racer. nor did the podcast Che made about the game precisely enthrall me either because the concept of riding round a track on a machine bolted to it on a rail where you couldn't actually hit the sides or crash struck me as even less interesting than usual racing games. However because! there was a demo available, and because I know myself that the experience of playing a game can be vastly different from hearing about it I tried the thing and found my previous assumptions to be wrong. in the case of rail racer in fact, I'd argue that the reason the game works is in it's mechanics and fine tuning and the need to develope the necessary judgement and coordination to play properly, things which are not clear from a review or a podcast, and only become clear when you try the game for yourself. This is especially true of games hwich might be extremely well designed, but in genres or settings that you would not normally play. You mention your own experience with sarah as an example, but even if Kelly or someone similar made a podcast would you have been likely to buy the game without a demo? I know for a fact I myself would not have bought railracer without that demo, and would (I'm sorry to say), be unlikely to considder buying any other racing title unless a demo was available since it is a subject and genre of games that I just do not generally find interests me. So if you for instance produced race way and had no demo, I would probably not buy a copy myself however good the game might be and quite likely even if someone made a podcast about it. In that case however I probably would be more likely to play a pirated copy just to see what the game was like, far more likely than if a demo was available in fact. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom. Your assessment of pirate motivations seems reasonable, however again, I have equally run into people who pirate a game purely to try it. I remember for instance a couple of individuals (who shall remain nameless), saying as much on audiogames.net, that when a demo was in their opinion too short or inadequate, they played a pirated copy of the game as a method of trying more of it, then later bought it if they desired as much, heck, I could see myself playing a pirated game in similar circumstances for that reason, sinse there have been several titles in the past which I would've wanted to play first, precisely because! I don't exactly have massive amounts of cash and wish to be certain I'd enjoy a game first before committing. As to reviews, well for myself those only work if I trust the reviewer, and usually those on the apple ap store I do not simply because I am not sure of the compitancy of their judgement or whether they assess things similar to me. This is why I was willing to buy lost cities and king of dragon pass without! demos, since they were recommended by people I trusted such as Zackery clien, but am leary of buying E bop it. After all, a game is a far more complex and subjective object to assess than a heater, since a heater is only required to provide heat, be easily controllable and not break down frequently, where as a game's purpose is far more complex and far more tied to what a given individual would find amusing or entertaining or challenging or whatever. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Personally, for me timed demos depend upon the time. the old draconis 15 day demos that gave you say about %10 of the game to play i thought were more than reasonable, since you had plenty of time to play the game over a number of days, replay the shorter segments, decide if the games would appeal over a long period etc. However, the 24 hour demos from vipgameszone I thought were less so since yes indeed, any unexpected circumstance could mess them up, also, you rarely got chance to try the gamesseveral times. So as with everything else it strikes me as a question of balance. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
It's the same reason I rather like the online activation system that Blastbay, and indeed dolphin use. you only have one password to remember, but can install on two or three machines without difficulty, yet can't pass the thing around to many computers. of course it's not a %100 guarantee, but nothing is, and in terms of shenanigans for legitimate customers vs problems for pirates it seems the best balance. Beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Agree with you completely, Thomas. And I personally like the idea of a user ID for a given game site. If players need to upgrade to a new system or recover the key, they can b e limitted to a certain amount of authorizing computers. And, to mix in some Sony methods, if one computer is deauthorized that means the program can no longer be used on that computer. But have, say three authorizations available, and then if they want to reuse it they'll have to either buy it again or at least pay half-price for a fresh set of three authorizations. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Josh, Oh, I definitely understand where you are coming from on this subject. Piracy is in deed a real problem, and if its true there are 300 pirated copies of Monkey Business out there that is something on par of $9,000 loss in sales. That is most definitely not a small sum to just take lightly. One thing I have been considering doing here is instead of offering unlockable demos on the website is to having a demo version and a full version available for download. A person can download the demo from our website, but when they pay they will be sent a one time random link where to download the actual game from. After they download it the link will expire so no one else can come along and download the game again. The other idea I have had is a type of ID system similar to Apple where you have an account on the server that keeps track of what games you purchased and so on. When you register the game you enter your user name and password and it goes online and checks if you have a purchase for the product and activates the product if found. Basically, I'm talking about online product activation which is far less troublesome as the hardware registration used by some audio game companies. Either way I think there is a way to still do demos and limit piracy. One big reason many people pirate software is because it costs too much. I know there are people on this list who live in places where $25 USD is a huge sum of money in their currency. Bringing the cost down should hopefully help with that problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well I have seen the download system work before, it's the one niels bauer use with smugglers and shard workshop use with their games. it's not an absolute guarantee, since someone could always pass around the setup files to the full versions, but it does stop the demo version's passwords being hacked. My only personal issue with the system is that upgrading the full version is a pest. right now, I have the original download of smugglers 5, installed on both my machines, plus the patch for the latest 1.5 version. Since however my main full version of the game still only installs version 1.0, I have to hang on to the patch and indeed keep updating it. thus, even though if I bought the game now I'd get 1.5, I can't download the full setup for the new version because my download link has expired. contrast this with Sarah, where I downloaded the setup for the latest version and indeed when I had to install it on another machine, didn't need to muck about with version patches at all. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
well agreed piracy is bad at those levels, but to be honest if the choice was a security system or a playable demo I'd rather have the chance to try the games first myself. Also there might be another side to this, since frankly if there was no! demo I could well see people playing pirated copies more just to see what the game was like. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I really hate that type of demo that won't work after a certain number of days because if you have computer problems, or if you are away for a while on vacation or something, you don't get the chance to fairly evaluate the game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Josh, Agreed. Timed demos do tend to be the best to motivate someone to buy a game. I have been in a fair number of situations where I was playing a demo when it times out in the middle of a level with a "we are sorry but the demo has expired" type message. That absolutely sucks, is irritating, but it is a strong motivator to buy the game. Another thing that is equally irritating but works is after x number of days the game comes up saying "to continue playing please register" and then exits. I'm sure everyone universally hates those kinds of demos, but it gives them just enough of a taste of the game without giving it away. One thing clever developers do with demos is removes specific content from a demo. Perhaps there is a key needed to unlock a certain door or certain item to get passed a certain point. By removing that specific item in the demo he or she has effectively locked the game and the player can not get passed that point without it. Hehehehehe! Cheers! On 1/16/13, Draconis Entertainment wrote: Hi Bryan, I'm sure no one particularly *likes* timed demos. It is supposed to help you decide if you want to purchase the game, not give you a way to enjoy it indefinitely for free. Time and effort go into these games. *smile* If we were to do demos going forward, they would likely be timed demos, or severely limited specifically for this reason. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Agree with you completely, Thomas. And I personally like the idea of a user ID for a given game site. If players need to upgrade to a new system or recover the key, they can b e limitted to a certain amount of authorizing computers. And, to mix in some Sony methods, if one computer is deauthorized that means the program can no longer be used on that computer. But have, say three authorizations available, and then if they want to reuse it they'll have to either buy it again or at least pay half-price for a fresh set of three authorizations. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi Josh, Oh, I definitely understand where you are coming from on this subject. Piracy is in deed a real problem, and if its true there are 300 pirated copies of Monkey Business out there that is something on par of $9,000 loss in sales. That is most definitely not a small sum to just take lightly. One thing I have been considering doing here is instead of offering unlockable demos on the website is to having a demo version and a full version available for download. A person can download the demo from our website, but when they pay they will be sent a one time random link where to download the actual game from. After they download it the link will expire so no one else can come along and download the game again. The other idea I have had is a type of ID system similar to Apple where you have an account on the server that keeps track of what games you purchased and so on. When you register the game you enter your user name and password and it goes online and checks if you have a purchase for the product and activates the product if found. Basically, I'm talking about online product activation which is far less troublesome as the hardware registration used by some audio game companies. Either way I think there is a way to still do demos and limit piracy. One big reason many people pirate software is because it costs too much. I know there are people on this list who live in places where $25 USD is a huge sum of money in their currency. Bringing the cost down should hopefully help with that problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
agreed. work gos in, and to have your stuff pirated isn't good. how ever, in the IOS / mac worlds, its much harder to hack / crack things. not impossible, but more trouble then its really worth for most hackers. also, on the subject of demos, yes, there is the facter to considder about people not wanting to throw money at something without seeing it first, but there is another facter of demos. its a way of selling. i might not be interested in something, outright, but cause i can grab a demo, and see what its all about, suddenly, i think to myself, yes! i want this! and instantly go pay for it. so thats just another thing to keep in mind. demos aren't just a way to test a game, but a way to actually sell them to people who otherwise might not try it if its going to cost money just for curiosity. looking forwards to your games hopefully coming to IOS, or at least some. for example, some of the more amazing things you could do with a touch screen you simply can't do with a keyboard, such as bowling. aim your ball down the lane, exactly at the angle you want to try get them pins that are still standing! that could be mind blowing, and i would instantly buy that! .. hint hint. ahaha regards: dallas On 17/01/2013, at 8:05, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > I'm sure no one particularly *likes* timed demos. It is supposed to help you > decide if you want to purchase the game, not give you a way to enjoy it > indefinitely for free. Time and effort go into these games. *smile* > > If we were to do demos going forward, they would likely be timed demos, or > severely limited specifically for this reason. > > On Jan 16, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Bryan Peterson > wrote: > >> I agree with Thomas. Nor do I particularly like timed demos, which cause >> problems for people who like the game but are content with having only a few >> levels to play and therefore don't necessarily want to pay. Space Invaders >> tpe games are the best example of what I mean. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hey. I agree with Dark. I figure that Draconis was going to make a lite version of the games on the Mac like other developers. I do however have one question for Draconis. Are you going to put the games on the iOS platform? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Thomas, Thanks for the nice word about my Sarah game. If the GMA engine would have allowed it I would have given people at least three floors of the castle to play in the demo. In the original version that is what I did. I put the three levels set in rings like Packman. However by separating the dungeon level in the most recent version I was able to expand it beyond one dungeon and one potions classroom. I could say the same thing for MOTA, I would likely not have been interested in a side-scroller until I tried out all the demos. Now I'm shaking my fist at the screen and chomping at my bit to here the starting bell of Arc of Hope. When it is released I will be out of the gate and racing for the next level until I get to the allusive arc. I just hope opening it doesn't release ghosts that burn my skin off ala the Raiders of the Lost Arc. Phil - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions Hi all, I find myself in agreement with Dark on this issue of demos. While I realize Draconis is attempting to bring the cost down on new and existing games I'd still prefer to try before I buy a game. Even if a game is only $10 I don't really have it to spend frivolously. As I am married, have a family to worry about, etc I tend to watch every dollar and only pay for things that I am absolutely sure I want. Sometimes an audio trailer and a brief description isn't enough to get me to purchase a product. I'll offer an example here. I do not consider myself much of a Harry Potter fan. Oh, I've watched the movies, read the books, and for me it is something I can pretty much take or leave. So I'm not actively looking for games etc with Harry Potter themes. So something like Sarah would not attract my attention because of the Harry Potter type theme alone. Moreover I heard audio trailers, read descriptions of the game in early development, and for the most part I blew them off. However, when I got to play the demo of Sarah I became hooked on the game itself, and wanted to see more of the castle, see how far I could get, and it was the demo that convinced me to cough up the money for the game more than any other factor. So you see even if Sarah had been $10, which would be more than reasonable for that game, I wouldn't have paid because I didn't think I would like it until I actually played the demo. There have been other cases where my decision to buy or not to buy have been based more or less on the quality of the demo. If a demo isn't available I'm going to be less likely to pay for the game unless I have money to burn and have no prior commitments which is usually never. :D Cheers! On 1/16/13, dark wrote: Hi. As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized the worth of games myself by playing them. I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much tronol over events in the game and had to just hit buttons occasionally. if you had asked me to hazard even as little as 5 dollars on the game, I probably wouldn't have done so, since I didn't find the idea appealing and being carefull about money, don't particularly like throwing away even a small amount on something which might not be entertaining for a long period. Since however a free demo was available, I had nothing to lose in trying the game, and when I tried the game i found the experience of playing the game extremely different from my preconceptions, which it turned out were utterly wrong. I now regard both esp pinball titles as some of the best arcade games available and would highly recommend them to anyone, but that would not have happened if I had not had the direct experience of playing the demo version. Likewise, I will probably not buy change reaction since I did not enjoy the previous demo, but if I had an opportunity to play the newer version and observe the changes (no pun intended), in the game for myself, that may well be different, however I don't particularly feel i have enough money to hazard 10 dollars on the possibility. thus, I would suggest that even if it does! take more time in developement, any game which is priced more than five dollars due to it's complexity and interest r
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Bryan, I'm sure no one particularly *likes* timed demos. It is supposed to help you decide if you want to purchase the game, not give you a way to enjoy it indefinitely for free. Time and effort go into these games. *smile* If we were to do demos going forward, they would likely be timed demos, or severely limited specifically for this reason. On Jan 16, 2013, at 3:56 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote: > I agree with Thomas. Nor do I particularly like timed demos, which cause > problems for people who like the game but are content with having only a few > levels to play and therefore don't necessarily want to pay. Space Invaders > tpe games are the best example of what I mean. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Well Piter, to be honest I'd suggest just producing a free light version which acts! as a demo instead, I recently found this with smack me. Even if it takes more developement time I would say it's likely worth it in the long run since otherwise people are likely to simply not want to financially commit to something they have not tried. I will agree however, that this is something I do not like in Ios generally, and indeed I'll likely be trying far fewer apps than I have tried games on windows, where I'm willing to try a demo of pretty much anything. I'd for instance considder trying! kings corner, but with the description and the fact I do not do well with solitare games generally i probably won't. Lost cities however from the rules mp3 and other people's descriptions struck me far more like rummy than solitare, albeit the runs were on the table not in your hand, which is why i bought the gamme, however there are other games I am simply not certain of, such as some of the word search or battleship games, or those from storm 8, or indeed bop it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi Tom and Dark, THanks for the feedback. As I tried to make clear in the original response, playable demos are something that are being continually discussed and thought about here. It's not an area where we are dead set on any specific course of action. To clarify: When asking a user to invest $30-$40 in a title, we feel very strongly that it was essential to offer a playable demo. In lowering the price, we have to balance the added overhead of managing demos and accepting potentially higher levels of piracy from users finding ways to exploit the demos. Using some random numbers just to illustrate an example… If five people do not purchase the game because there is not a playable demo and no one of their acquaintance has a copy on their machine that they can play for a few minutes, we've lost five sales at most. If we offer a demo, and an exploit means that 50 people pirate the title, we have potentially lost a maximum of 50 sales, plus the time spent implementing the unlockable demo, etc. And, just to throw out some real world numbers…just in what we've been able to track, we know that MonkeyBusiness has been pirated by around 300 users at minimum, and potentially many more. In an industry as small as ours, that is not insignificant. We are not saying we will definitively not do demos…but it is something that we need to weigh the pros and cons for very carefully, and make sure that it is worth it overall. Sometimes, doing the best thing for the customer is costly. Our registration keys, for example, are not tied to hardware the way, for instance, GMA's are. We do this because we understand the frustration for users upgrading to a new system, or who have multiple machines they want to be able to play the game on. As a result, we've had to accept a very, very high rate of piracy of our games. In bringing the cost down, it is harder justifying all of these kinds of things, and we need to weigh each very carefully. Hope this helps clarify. On Jan 16, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi all, > > I find myself in agreement with Dark on this issue of demos. While I > realize Draconis is attempting to bring the cost down on new and > existing games I'd still prefer to try before I buy a game. Even if a > game is only $10 I don't really have it to spend frivolously. As I am > married, have a family to worry about, etc I tend to watch every > dollar and only pay for things that I am absolutely sure I want. > Sometimes an audio trailer and a brief description isn't enough to get > me to purchase a product. > > I'll offer an example here. I do not consider myself much of a Harry > Potter fan. Oh, I've watched the movies, read the books, and for me it > is something I can pretty much take or leave. So I'm not actively > looking for games etc with Harry Potter themes. So something like > Sarah would not attract my attention because of the Harry Potter type > theme alone. > > Moreover I heard audio trailers, read descriptions of the game in > early development, and for the most part I blew them off. However, > when I got to play the demo of Sarah I became hooked on the game > itself, and wanted to see more of the castle, see how far I could get, > and it was the demo that convinced me to cough up the money for the > game more than any other factor. So you see even if Sarah had been > $10, which would be more than reasonable for that game, I wouldn't > have paid because I didn't think I would like it until I actually > played the demo. > > There have been other cases where my decision to buy or not to buy > have been based more or less on the quality of the demo. If a demo > isn't available I'm going to be less likely to pay for the game unless > I have money to burn and have no prior commitments which is usually > never. :D > > Cheers! > > On 1/16/13, dark wrote: >> Hi. >> >> As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that >> >> bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This >> might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is >> extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an >> >> audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, >> indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized >> >> the worth of games myself by playing them. >> >> I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from >> the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun >> the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much >> tronol over events in the game and had to just hit buttons occasionally. >> >> if you had asked me to hazard even as little as 5 dollars on the game, I >> probably wouldn't have done so, since I didn't find the idea appealing and >> being carefull about money, don't particularly like throwing away even a >> small amount on something which might not be entert
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi, I think I'll have to agree with Dark and Thomas here. This may be in part due to how iOS and non iOS users think. For one thing Apple doesn't allow trials in the app store, so if a developer wants to release a demo they either need to release the entire app with an in-app purchase to unlock everything, or make 2 separate builds which adds to development time. People are more likely to buy iOS apps than Android ones, because all iPhones are the same, so they know the app will run. Weather it will be useful in the long run is a different story (Gotta love google play's refund policy, helped me not waste money on inaccessible apps). I actually had this problem with an iOS game, mainly kings corner. Can't remember how much it was exactly, I think about 2 or 3 euros. The description sounded interesting enough, but after I tried the game I got hopelessly confused, and never came back to it after trying ot 3 or 4 times. Lost cities was an oposite, where the description mentioned similarities to solitaire. I took the plunge and find myself very adicted to the game. Speaking of Draconis titles, Back when monkey business was the only game which didn't have a demo, the trailer sounded freaking amazing. Eventually I was able to get my mom to hae a friend in the US buy the game, and I wasn't quite as interested. The navigation features were rather lacking, and the game had some pretty annoying bugs like the slowdown problem which would slowly get worse as you played the game. This wasn't something you could figure out by reading the manual or listening to the trailer. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
I agree with Thomas. Nor do I particularly like timed demos, which cause problems for people who like the game but are content with having only a few levels to play and therefore don't necessarily want to pay. Space Invaders tpe games are the best example of what I mean. On 1/16/2013 1:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi all, I find myself in agreement with Dark on this issue of demos. While I realize Draconis is attempting to bring the cost down on new and existing games I'd still prefer to try before I buy a game. Even if a game is only $10 I don't really have it to spend frivolously. As I am married, have a family to worry about, etc I tend to watch every dollar and only pay for things that I am absolutely sure I want. Sometimes an audio trailer and a brief description isn't enough to get me to purchase a product. I'll offer an example here. I do not consider myself much of a Harry Potter fan. Oh, I've watched the movies, read the books, and for me it is something I can pretty much take or leave. So I'm not actively looking for games etc with Harry Potter themes. So something like Sarah would not attract my attention because of the Harry Potter type theme alone. Moreover I heard audio trailers, read descriptions of the game in early development, and for the most part I blew them off. However, when I got to play the demo of Sarah I became hooked on the game itself, and wanted to see more of the castle, see how far I could get, and it was the demo that convinced me to cough up the money for the game more than any other factor. So you see even if Sarah had been $10, which would be more than reasonable for that game, I wouldn't have paid because I didn't think I would like it until I actually played the demo. There have been other cases where my decision to buy or not to buy have been based more or less on the quality of the demo. If a demo isn't available I'm going to be less likely to pay for the game unless I have money to burn and have no prior commitments which is usually never. :D Cheers! On 1/16/13, dark wrote: Hi. As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized the worth of games myself by playing them. I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much tronol over events in the game and had to just hit buttons occasionally. if you had asked me to hazard even as little as 5 dollars on the game, I probably wouldn't have done so, since I didn't find the idea appealing and being carefull about money, don't particularly like throwing away even a small amount on something which might not be entertaining for a long period. Since however a free demo was available, I had nothing to lose in trying the game, and when I tried the game i found the experience of playing the game extremely different from my preconceptions, which it turned out were utterly wrong. I now regard both esp pinball titles as some of the best arcade games available and would highly recommend them to anyone, but that would not have happened if I had not had the direct experience of playing the demo version. Likewise, I will probably not buy change reaction since I did not enjoy the previous demo, but if I had an opportunity to play the newer version and observe the changes (no pun intended), in the game for myself, that may well be different, however I don't particularly feel i have enough money to hazard 10 dollars on the possibility. thus, I would suggest that even if it does! take more time in developement, any game which is priced more than five dollars due to it's complexity and interest really should have some sort of demo available for it, particularly for games with a different audio complex, or games that require complex actions to play. Most Visually impared people are not particularly wealthy, therefore it makes sence they be carefull with money. Part of that care will naturally not involve hazarding money on things just on an offchance, and since games are a luxury item, people will need to be extra sure of what they're getting. this is why I myself rarely buy a film or tv series on dvd that I have not seen before and thus will be certain it is something I will want to watch through several times, and the same applies to games, which is why I'd personally recommend rethinking the demo policy, even if not for all titles. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamer
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi all, I find myself in agreement with Dark on this issue of demos. While I realize Draconis is attempting to bring the cost down on new and existing games I'd still prefer to try before I buy a game. Even if a game is only $10 I don't really have it to spend frivolously. As I am married, have a family to worry about, etc I tend to watch every dollar and only pay for things that I am absolutely sure I want. Sometimes an audio trailer and a brief description isn't enough to get me to purchase a product. I'll offer an example here. I do not consider myself much of a Harry Potter fan. Oh, I've watched the movies, read the books, and for me it is something I can pretty much take or leave. So I'm not actively looking for games etc with Harry Potter themes. So something like Sarah would not attract my attention because of the Harry Potter type theme alone. Moreover I heard audio trailers, read descriptions of the game in early development, and for the most part I blew them off. However, when I got to play the demo of Sarah I became hooked on the game itself, and wanted to see more of the castle, see how far I could get, and it was the demo that convinced me to cough up the money for the game more than any other factor. So you see even if Sarah had been $10, which would be more than reasonable for that game, I wouldn't have paid because I didn't think I would like it until I actually played the demo. There have been other cases where my decision to buy or not to buy have been based more or less on the quality of the demo. If a demo isn't available I'm going to be less likely to pay for the game unless I have money to burn and have no prior commitments which is usually never. :D Cheers! On 1/16/13, dark wrote: > Hi. > > As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that > > bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This > might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is > extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an > > audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, > indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized > > the worth of games myself by playing them. > > I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from > the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun > the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much > tronol over events in the game and had to just hit buttons occasionally. > > if you had asked me to hazard even as little as 5 dollars on the game, I > probably wouldn't have done so, since I didn't find the idea appealing and > being carefull about money, don't particularly like throwing away even a > small amount on something which might not be entertaining for a long > period. > > Since however a free demo was available, I had nothing to lose in trying the > > game, and when I tried the game i found the experience of playing the game > extremely different from my preconceptions, which it turned out were utterly > > wrong. I now regard both esp pinball titles as some of the best arcade games > > available and would highly recommend them to anyone, but that would not have > > happened if I had not had the direct experience of playing the demo > version. > > Likewise, I will probably not buy change reaction since I did not enjoy the > > previous demo, but if I had an opportunity to play the newer version and > observe the changes (no pun intended), in the game for myself, that may well > > be different, however I don't particularly feel i have enough money to > hazard 10 dollars on the possibility. > > thus, I would suggest that even if it does! take more time in developement, > > any game which is priced more than five dollars due to it's complexity and > interest really should have some sort of demo available for it, particularly > > for games with a different audio complex, or games that require complex > actions to play. > > Most Visually impared people are not particularly wealthy, therefore it > makes sence they be carefull with money. Part of that care will naturally > not involve hazarding money on things just on an offchance, and since games > > are a luxury item, people will need to be extra sure of what they're > getting. > > this is why I myself rarely buy a film or tv series on dvd that I have not > seen before and thus will be certain it is something I will want to watch > through several times, and the same applies to games, which is why I'd > personally recommend rethinking the demo policy, even if not for all > titles. > > All the best, > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Hi. As regards demos, I'm afraid I'm a little confused as to your reasoning that bringing the price down automatically means you don't need a demo. This might be true for games such as silver dollar where the over all price is extremely low and the game is more than simple enough to understand from an audio clip, but for something more complex that might not be the case, indeed there have been several occasions in the past that I only recognized the worth of games myself by playing them. I did not for example think much to the initial idea of audio pinball from the audio clips or promotional material. i was not convinced how much fun the game would be, since from what I heard it didn't seem you had much tronol over events in the game and had to just hit buttons occasionally. if you had asked me to hazard even as little as 5 dollars on the game, I probably wouldn't have done so, since I didn't find the idea appealing and being carefull about money, don't particularly like throwing away even a small amount on something which might not be entertaining for a long period. Since however a free demo was available, I had nothing to lose in trying the game, and when I tried the game i found the experience of playing the game extremely different from my preconceptions, which it turned out were utterly wrong. I now regard both esp pinball titles as some of the best arcade games available and would highly recommend them to anyone, but that would not have happened if I had not had the direct experience of playing the demo version. Likewise, I will probably not buy change reaction since I did not enjoy the previous demo, but if I had an opportunity to play the newer version and observe the changes (no pun intended), in the game for myself, that may well be different, however I don't particularly feel i have enough money to hazard 10 dollars on the possibility. thus, I would suggest that even if it does! take more time in developement, any game which is priced more than five dollars due to it's complexity and interest really should have some sort of demo available for it, particularly for games with a different audio complex, or games that require complex actions to play. Most Visually impared people are not particularly wealthy, therefore it makes sence they be carefull with money. Part of that care will naturally not involve hazarding money on things just on an offchance, and since games are a luxury item, people will need to be extra sure of what they're getting. this is why I myself rarely buy a film or tv series on dvd that I have not seen before and thus will be certain it is something I will want to watch through several times, and the same applies to games, which is why I'd personally recommend rethinking the demo policy, even if not for all titles. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions
Greetings, We collected a variety of questions from various places and try to answer them all below. Most of them came from an AudioGames.net thread, also linked below. If you have follow up questions or anything we have not yet addressed, let us know here, on AudioGames.net, or on Twitter, where we can be found as @DracoEnt http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=121215 Hi all, Quite a few points and questions to touch on here, so I'll do my best not to miss anyone. Keep the questions coming, and we will continue to try to answer them if we can. At this time, we are not planning to offer games in the Windows Marketplace. Windows users in general, and even more specifically visually impaired users, tend to stick with older versions of the OS, whereas Apple users tend to stay up to date. Too many of our customers on Windows will be running older versions of Windows, so we plan simply to offer them via the website for now. As, hopefully, more users upgrade their systems, this will probably change in the future. Regarding playable demos: This is a topic we plan to continually revisit and reevaluate. In the past, playable demos were essential, given the higher price tag on the games. We are trying really hard to bring down the cost of our games. Any time you add demo version, particularly unlockable ones, (though not exclusively), you're adding overhead development plus a heightened risk of piracy. We have to weigh the pros and cons between offering demos versus keeping costs down. We will, of course, continue offering audio trailers for most titles on our website. Regarding VI marketshare of Mac vs Windows: The VI Mac community is growing and vibrant, and largely made up of a younger demographic. The younger demographic is the more likely to enjoy and purchase games, and that demographic has been almost wholly unserved on the Mac platform before now. Raw numbers are not what is important in that regard, although I think many Windows users here might be surprised just how large the VI Mac community has become. In any case, there are a whole range of reasons why we expect sales on Mac to equal or surpass Windows ones, including these, the ease of purchasing applications from the App Store, and the ridiculously high levels of piracy on Windows. Regarding the responsiveness of ChangeReaction/SilverDollar: This is due in large part to the game engine we've written in-house from the ground up, though there may be other contributing factors. For example, most Windows PC's tend to have relatively low-quality hardware, which Apple doesn't even offer for its Mac products. As I mentioned before, many Windows users are using older versions of Windows, which may also be effecting performance/stability. All of that said, though, we do not anticipate a significant difference in performance between Windows and Mac versions of the games that are running on comparable hardware and relatively current operating systems. (XP is not relatively current. *wink*) Regarding the switch from Windows to Mac: Someone mentioned that a primary reason they would not switch was the library of software and games they already have built up for Mac. There are a number of ways to run Windows software on Mac, the most accessible being VMWare Fusion, which permits the Windows OS to run side-by-side with Mac OS X. For about $70 and a Windows installation disc, you can have the best of both worlds. You can also, fairly easily, set up a Mac to dual boot to either OS X or Windows, though that is not an ideal situation. It is kind of ironic that, with VMWare Fusion, a blind user can totally accessibly install Windows without sighted assistance, scripts, or anything specialized whatsoever on Mac OS X. Really glad you are all enjoying the releases so far. Plenty more on the way. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
