Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

> On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Roman Shaposhnik  wrote:
> 
> 
> ultimately
> decided that expecting a bit more up-front community action was a
> prudent choice.
> 
> What I'd like to see is a proof that ASF or no ASF the community wants to take
> matters into its own hands and fork away. For now it isn't actually
> obvious to me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Roman.

Now that a move to the ASF is (currently) off the table, the community is 
regrouping to host the project elsewhere. Once basic infrastructure is in place 
there will likely be some sort of announcement. Proof will come.

-Taylor
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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
> Agree with you on all points, Taylor.
>
> And I am even quite surprised to see the number of people backing the
> project, yet Apache is adamant to get involved. It feels a little bit like
> the "Community over Code" and "Independent of any Corporate Influences"
> have both received a big fat slap in their faces, and I think this hurts
> the ASF more than any fallout with named corporation.
>
> Disappointing to me...

That was my initial reaction as well, but then I thought some more and
ultimately
decided that expecting a bit more up-front community action was a
prudent choice.

What I'd like to see is a proof that ASF or no ASF the community wants to take
matters into its own hands and fork away. For now it isn't actually
obvious to me.

Thanks,
Roman.

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Niclas Hedhman]

Agree with you on all points, Taylor.

And I am even quite surprised to see the number of people backing the
project, yet Apache is adamant to get involved. It feels a little bit like
the "Community over Code" and "Independent of any Corporate Influences"
have both received a big fat slap in their faces, and I think this hurts
the ASF more than any fallout with named corporation.

Disappointing to me...

Niclas

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 7:32 AM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:

> I think the community behind this proposal is ready to accept defeat at
> this point. With DataStax' objection, the project simply can't be brought
> under the auspices of the ASF unless DataStax reverses its stance.
>
> Personally, I'm somewhat discouraged to see a company I once held in high
> regard in  terms of supporting OSS and the ASF take this action. This
> represents a further erosion of that respect. It is what it is. I can't
> fault DataStax for trying to protect their bottom line. They are well
> within their rights here. It could be considered a stain on their
> relationship with the ASF, or not.
>
> The community seems committed to moving forward with a fork, whether it is
> considered hostile or friendly. From discussions I've been privy to, if
> DataStax were to reverse their stance, this community would come back to
> the ASF in a heartbeat. There's a community behind this code, and they
> deserve the right to move forward.
>
> I think they will, unfortunately not at the ASF. At least for now. Nothing
> would please me more than to see this community be able to come to Apache.
>
> -Taylor
>
> > On Sep 30, 2016, at 4:15 AM, Tom Barber  wrote:
> >
> > I like the re-licensing threat get it forked on github and prove to
> > them there is a willing community out there!
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 4:17 AM, P. Taylor Goetz 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd leave it open for now. I imagine/hope there are enough people aware
> of
> >> this thread that the sentiments expressed here might affect a change.
> >>
> >> -Taylor
> >>
>  On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Henry Saputra 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS
> >>> thread until further updates, if any?
> >>>
>  On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz 
> >> wrote:
> 
>  For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
> 
>  I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
> 
>  -Taylor
> 
> >> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein  > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz"   > wrote:
> >> ...
> >> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
> > project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live
> on.
> > DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as
> a
> > rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> >
> > Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or
> some
> > such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license.
> >> The
> > ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> >
> >> ...
> >> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing
> >> before
> > shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> >
> > My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -g
> 
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

I think the community behind this proposal is ready to accept defeat at this 
point. With DataStax' objection, the project simply can't be brought under the 
auspices of the ASF unless DataStax reverses its stance.

Personally, I'm somewhat discouraged to see a company I once held in high 
regard in  terms of supporting OSS and the ASF take this action. This 
represents a further erosion of that respect. It is what it is. I can't fault 
DataStax for trying to protect their bottom line. They are well within their 
rights here. It could be considered a stain on their relationship with the ASF, 
or not.

The community seems committed to moving forward with a fork, whether it is 
considered hostile or friendly. From discussions I've been privy to, if 
DataStax were to reverse their stance, this community would come back to the 
ASF in a heartbeat. There's a community behind this code, and they deserve the 
right to move forward.

I think they will, unfortunately not at the ASF. At least for now. Nothing 
would please me more than to see this community be able to come to Apache.

-Taylor

> On Sep 30, 2016, at 4:15 AM, Tom Barber  wrote:
> 
> I like the re-licensing threat get it forked on github and prove to
> them there is a willing community out there!
> 
> Tom
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 4:17 AM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:
>> 
>> I'd leave it open for now. I imagine/hope there are enough people aware of
>> this thread that the sentiments expressed here might affect a change.
>> 
>> -Taylor
>> 
 On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Henry Saputra 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS
>>> thread until further updates, if any?
>>> 
 On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz 
>> wrote:
 
 For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
 
 I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
 
 -Taylor
 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein  > wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz" > wrote:
>> ...
>> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
> project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
> DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
> rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> 
> Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
> such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license.
>> The
> ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> 
>> ...
>> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing
>> before
> shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> 
> My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> 
> Cheers,
> -g
 
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[CLOSED] [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Thanks to all participating.

Due to response from Datastax legal rep, this proposal at this moment
considered "hostile" fork and hence no longer open for discussion.


- Henry

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Henry Saputra 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
> formerly Titan.
> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs
> so large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what
> a single machine can provide.
>
> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> License v2.0.
> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> Datstax.
> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> original authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> significant interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com
> /forum/#!msg/aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
>
> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> name: Apache Olympian.
>
> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
>
>   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
>
> I have also included the current text of that page below.
>
> Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Henry Saputra
> On behalf of Apache Olympian community
>
>
> = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing
> of graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
> real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
>
> == Proposal ==
>
> Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> . It supports very large
> graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
> Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
> already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
>
>-
>
>Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
>exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
>-
>
>Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
>defined by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
>-
>
>Provides graph persistence solutions with:
>-
>
>   Apache Cassandra 
>   -
>
>   Apache HBase 
>   -
>
>Provides advanced indexing with:
>-
>
>   Apache Lucene 
>   -
>
>   Apache Solr 
>   -
>
>Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through the 
> Apache
>Hadoop  framework with processors
>implemented with:
>-
>
>   Apache Spark 
>   -
>
>   Apache Giraph 
>
>
> Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
>
>-
>
>BerkeleyDB
>-
>
>Elasticsearch
>
>
> == Background ==
>
> Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
> consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
> made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
> cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
> Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
> LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
> acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
> September 2015.
>
> Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
> branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
> activity as the original authors are busy with other software development,
> but there is significant interest from the community.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> (1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.
>
> (2) Apache Atlas (incubating) 
> packages and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part
> of Apache.
>
> (3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to continue
> to develop the code. These users provide the basis of the community for the
> proposed project.
>
> == Initial Goals ==
>
> The initial goals are as follows:
>
>-
>
>Establish the project governance in The Apache Way and broaden the
>community.
>-
>
>Distribute an incubating release aligned with the latest Apache
>TinkerPop version and prepared in accordance with 

Re: Can you un-open-source a product? Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Stian Soiland-Reyes]

I think Apache should not take an active part in any forks, as it could
ruin the long-standing approval with the commercial community.

However I think going the Jenkins fork route is the way for these
communities that want to move forward:

Move to GitHub, change the name & logo, clean up IP, actively grow the
community (e.g. add to the GH organisation after 2 pull requests), make
frequent releases (not too ambitious design changes), have nice and
professional looking web pages, etc.

A bit of noise in the process is necessary so the fork gets attention. It
is a hostile fork, but community-backed. Give it a year or two, and the
fork could be stronger and independent - at which point I think ASF would
have less qualms about accepting the new community - it would kind of be
pre-incubated.

A GitHub fork also makes the fall shorter if the original copyright holders
change their mind and embrace Open Development; they can then (at least in
theory) re-merge the communities by approving the new name as "official
successor" and join the effort; perhaps at that point a move to ASF would
be a very good option to form new neutral ground.

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Tom Barber]

I like the re-licensing threat get it forked on github and prove to
them there is a willing community out there!

Tom

On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 4:17 AM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:

> I'd leave it open for now. I imagine/hope there are enough people aware of
> this thread that the sentiments expressed here might affect a change.
>
> -Taylor
>
> > On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Henry Saputra 
> wrote:
> >
> > With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS
> > thread until further updates, if any?
> >
> >> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
> >>
> >> I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
> >>
> >> -Taylor
> >>
>  On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
>  On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz"  >> > wrote:
>  ...
>  They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
> >>> project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
> >>> DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
> >>> rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
> >>> such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license.
> The
> >>> ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> >>>
>  ...
>  Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing
> before
> >>> shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> >>>
> >>> My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> -g
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> >> 
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >> 
> >>
> >>
>
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>

Can you un-open-source a product? Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Greg Trasuk]

I’m kind of curious how we’d apply our “Community over Code” credo to a 
situation like this.

It sounds like DataStax acquired a “community” centred on a product that had 
been open-sourced by its previous steward.  And now their legal department is 
re-asserting control over the product.  Fair enough, but if there’s a community 
that wants to carry on development against a product that was properly and 
fairly ASL2 licensed, does the acquirer have the right to shut them down?  They 
certainly could assert control over the trademark that they own, but what if 
the community called it something else and carried on (which we generally 
require of an incubator product anyway)?  

I’m obviously thinking of Hudson and Jenkins here - the community forked the 
code over a weekend, and Oracle was left with a dead product.  When they 
asserted ownership of the “Hudson” trademark, the community simply said “OK, 
it’s Jenkins now”, and carried on.

If they had come to Apache, would we have shown them the door, for legalistic 
reasons? ( I don’t recall them coming to Apache at the time, but I could be 
wrong).  Is it a “hostile fork” if the bulk of the community is in favour, and 
it’s only the trademark owner that demurs?

It seems to me that one of the goals of Apache is to have a “neutral” corporate 
entity to host open-source projects under open but orderly governance, so that 
an open-source project stands a chance of outlasting the mercurial whims of a 
commercial entity (and also of individual maintainers).

So I wonder if we’re being a little quick to shut down a community that wants 
open governance.

Cheers,

Greg Trasuk


> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:59 PM, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, with a few binding -1's there is nothing to discuss unless Datastax wish 
> to reconsider. I doubt they want to discuss that on a public list.
> 
> Ross
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Henry Saputra [mailto:henry.sapu...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:57 PM
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
>> 
>> With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS 
>> thread
>> until further updates, if any?
>> 
>> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
>>> 
>>> I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
>>> 
>>> -Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgo...@gmail.com
>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of
>>>>> the
>>>> project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
>>>> DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as
>>>> a rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or
>>>> some such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2
>>>> license. The ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
>>>> 
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing
>>>>> before
>>>> shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
>>>> 
>>>> My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -g
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>> <javascript:;>
>>> 
>>> 
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

I'd leave it open for now. I imagine/hope there are enough people aware of this 
thread that the sentiments expressed here might affect a change.

-Taylor

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Henry Saputra  wrote:
> 
> With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS
> thread until further updates, if any?
> 
>> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:
>> 
>> For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
>> 
>> I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
>> 
>> -Taylor
>> 
 On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein >> > wrote:
>>> 
 On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz" > > wrote:
 ...
 They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
>>> project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
>>> DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
>>> rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
>>> 
>>> Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
>>> such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license. The
>>> ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
>>> 
 ...
 Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before
>>> shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
>>> 
>>> My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> -g
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 

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RE: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler]

Yes, with a few binding -1's there is nothing to discuss unless Datastax wish 
to reconsider. I doubt they want to discuss that on a public list.

Ross

> -Original Message-
> From: Henry Saputra [mailto:henry.sapu...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:57 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> 
> With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS thread
> until further updates, if any?
> 
> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
> >
> > I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
> >
> > -Taylor
> >
> > > On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgo...@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> ...
> > >> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of
> > >> the
> > > project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
> > > DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as
> > > a rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> > >
> > > Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or
> > > some such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2
> > > license. The ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> > >
> > >> ...
> > >> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing
> > >> before
> > > shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> > >
> > > My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > -g
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > <javascript:;>
> >
> >

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

With obvious block due to Datastax response, shall I CLOSE this DISCUSS
thread until further updates, if any?

On Thursday, September 29, 2016, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:

> For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.
>
> I would like to give them time to change their mind though.
>
> -Taylor
>
> > On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein  > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz"  > wrote:
> >> ...
> >> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
> > project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
> > DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
> > rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> >
> > Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
> > such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license. The
> > ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> >
> >> ...
> >> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before
> > shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> >
> > My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -g
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

For the record I'd be -1 as well unless DataStax chose to support it.

I would like to give them time to change their mind though.

-Taylor

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:37 PM, Greg Stein  wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz"  wrote:
>> ...
>> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
> project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
> DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
> rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.
> 
> Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
> such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license. The
> ASF is not a necessary step for that community.
> 
>> ...
>> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before
> shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?
> 
> My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.
> 
> Cheers,
> -g

-
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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Greg Stein]

On Sep 29, 2016 19:22, "P. Taylor Goetz"  wrote:
>...
> They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the
project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on.
DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a
rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.

Yes, the community could certainly launch their fork at GitHub or some
such. DataStax provided them with that ability via the ALv2 license. The
ASF is not a necessary step for that community.

>...
> Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before
shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?

My vote remains -1. That can change, based on their choices.

Cheers,
-g

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

Yes, please read that thread, and my response.

Yes, DataStax’ current response would make this a hostile fork, but I think 
they should be given a chance to reconsider their stance.

The ASF doesn’t want to accept hostile forks. I understand and agree with that.

They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the project 
moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on. DataStax' 
reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a rejection of the 
ASF governance model or the Foundation itself.

DataStax has every right to block this. I also think it would behoove them not 
to for many reasons.

Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before 
shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork?

-Taylor


> On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:48 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:40 PM Henry Saputra 
> wrote:
> 
>> Which other thread are you referring to?
>> 
>> 
> A response was received from DataStax legal.
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e4f2c1403bfb4fe75fce9bd6f3182b9a95b9830ad9893944bac01ed9@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein  wrote:
>> 
>>> -1 (binding)
>>> 
>>> See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a
>> hostile
>>> fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
>>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra" >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi All,
 
 Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
>>> Olympian,
 formerly Titan.
 Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
>> graphs
>>> so
 large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond
>> what
>>> a
 single machine can provide.
 
 This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
 https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
 License v2.0.
 The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
 Datstax.
 Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
>>> original
 authors are busy with other software development, but there is
>>> significant
 interest from the community (see
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
 aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
 
 The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
 copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
 Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
 name: Apache Olympian.
 
 The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
 
  https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
 
 I have also included the current text of that page below.
 
 Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
 
 
 Thanks,
 Henry Saputra
 On behalf of Apache Olympian community
 
 
 = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
 
 == Abstract ==
 
 Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
>> processing
>>> of
 graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
 beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
>>> for
 real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
 
 == Proposal ==
 
 Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
 . It supports very large
 graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
>>> processing.
 Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
>>> Olympian
 already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
 
   -
 
   Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
   exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
   -
 
   Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
>>> defined
   by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
   -
 
   Provides graph persistence solutions with:
   -
 
  Apache Cassandra 
  -
 
  Apache HBase 
  -
 
   Provides advanced indexing with:
   -
 
  Apache Lucene 
  -
 
  Apache Solr 
  -
 
   Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
 the Apache
   Hadoop  framework with processors
 implemented
   with:
   -
 
  Apache Spark 
  -
 
  Apache Giraph 
 
 
 Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler]

Yep. As Greg points out this is to be considered a hostile fork. So I'm -1 as 
well.

---
Twitter: @rgardler


From: Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:55:58 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

Thanks, it shows up as separate thread so I missed it.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org>
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:40 PM Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > Which other thread are you referring to?
> >
> >
> A response was received from DataStax legal.
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fe4f2c1403bfb4fe75fce9bd6f3182b=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C304c3939ae2b4bbd4bde08d3e8d4f2a7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=l3k%2BYi6y%2F4ISy7b3JAm0CyiYcN7a8g2BjfNDYgJHCeE%3D=0
> 9a95b9830ad9893944bac01ed9@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
>
> > On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > -1 (binding)
> > >
> > > See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a
> > hostile
> > > fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
> > >
> > > On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra" <henry.sapu...@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > > Olympian,
> > > > formerly Titan.
> > > > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> > graphs
> > > so
> > > > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond
> > what
> > > a
> > > > single machine can provide.
> > > >
> > > > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fthinkaurelius%2Ftitan%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C304c3939ae2b4bbd4bde08d3e8d4f2a7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=pCtyXJBkLSTGPhUc2kCuS5WwiSgG9vU9iTSlH2UM%2BC8%3D=0)
> > > >  that already come with
> Apache
> > > > License v2.0.
> > > > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired
> by
> > > > Datstax.
> > > > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > > original
> > > > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> > > significant
> > > > interest from the community (see
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fforum%2F%23!msg%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C304c3939ae2b4bbd4bde08d3e8d4f2a7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=8LL7F8nj3fOLUhqAktvlb61%2F4t9uoSs4t23dfIdOkg4%3D=0
> > > > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> > > >
> > > > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > > > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > > > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with
> different
> > > > name: Apache Olympian.
> > > >
> > > > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> > > >
> > > >   
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FOlympianProposal=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C304c3939ae2b4bbd4bde08d3e8d4f2a7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=TuNyaBP3%2FfAoqDZjMLfdGm7OwUPuEstLqZv808Zx2Mk%3D=0
> > > >
> > > > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Henry Saputra
> > > > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> > > >
> > > > == Abstract ==
> > > >
> > > > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
> > processing
> > > of
> > > > graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> capacities
> > > > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data
> processing
> > > for
> > > > real time traversal

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Thanks, it shows up as separate thread so I missed it.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016, John D. Ament 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:40 PM Henry Saputra  >
> wrote:
>
> > Which other thread are you referring to?
> >
> >
> A response was received from DataStax legal.
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e4f2c1403bfb4fe75fce9bd6f3182b
> 9a95b9830ad9893944bac01ed9@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
>
> > On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein  > wrote:
> >
> > > -1 (binding)
> > >
> > > See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a
> > hostile
> > > fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
> > >
> > > On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra"  
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > > Olympian,
> > > > formerly Titan.
> > > > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> > graphs
> > > so
> > > > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond
> > what
> > > a
> > > > single machine can provide.
> > > >
> > > > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > > > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with
> Apache
> > > > License v2.0.
> > > > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired
> by
> > > > Datstax.
> > > > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > > original
> > > > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> > > significant
> > > > interest from the community (see
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> > > > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> > > >
> > > > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > > > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > > > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with
> different
> > > > name: Apache Olympian.
> > > >
> > > > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> > > >
> > > >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
> > > >
> > > > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> > > >
> > > > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Henry Saputra
> > > > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> > > >
> > > > == Abstract ==
> > > >
> > > > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
> > processing
> > > of
> > > > graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> capacities
> > > > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data
> processing
> > > for
> > > > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main
> benefit.
> > > >
> > > > == Proposal ==
> > > >
> > > > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2
> license
> > > > . It supports very large
> > > > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
> > > processing.
> > > > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
> > > Olympian
> > > > already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
> > > >
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
> > > >exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
> > > defined
> > > >by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic
> connectivity.
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >Provides graph persistence solutions with:
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >   Apache Cassandra 
> > > >   -
> > > >
> > > >   Apache HBase 
> > > >   -
> > > >
> > > >Provides advanced indexing with:
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >   Apache Lucene 
> > > >   -
> > > >
> > > >   Apache Solr 
> > > >   -
> > > >
> > > >Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> > > > the Apache
> > > >Hadoop  framework with processors
> > > > implemented
> > > >with:
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >   Apache Spark 
> > > >   -
> > > >
> > > >   Apache Giraph 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
> > > >
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >BerkeleyDB
> > > >-
> > > >
> > > >Elasticsearch
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > == Background ==
> > > >
> > > > Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius
> > graph
> > > > consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system
> > and
> > > > made it 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[John D. Ament]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:40 PM Henry Saputra 
wrote:

> Which other thread are you referring to?
>
>
A response was received from DataStax legal.

https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e4f2c1403bfb4fe75fce9bd6f3182b9a95b9830ad9893944bac01ed9@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E


> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein  wrote:
>
> > -1 (binding)
> >
> > See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a
> hostile
> > fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
> >
> > On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra"  > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > Olympian,
> > > formerly Titan.
> > > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> graphs
> > so
> > > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond
> what
> > a
> > > single machine can provide.
> > >
> > > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> > > License v2.0.
> > > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> > > Datstax.
> > > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > original
> > > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> > significant
> > > interest from the community (see
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> > > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> > >
> > > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> > > name: Apache Olympian.
> > >
> > > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> > >
> > >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
> > >
> > > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> > >
> > > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Henry Saputra
> > > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> > >
> > >
> > > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> > >
> > > == Abstract ==
> > >
> > > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
> processing
> > of
> > > graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> > > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
> > for
> > > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
> > >
> > > == Proposal ==
> > >
> > > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> > > . It supports very large
> > > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
> > processing.
> > > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
> > Olympian
> > > already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
> > >
> > >-
> > >
> > >Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
> > >exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
> > >-
> > >
> > >Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
> > defined
> > >by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
> > >-
> > >
> > >Provides graph persistence solutions with:
> > >-
> > >
> > >   Apache Cassandra 
> > >   -
> > >
> > >   Apache HBase 
> > >   -
> > >
> > >Provides advanced indexing with:
> > >-
> > >
> > >   Apache Lucene 
> > >   -
> > >
> > >   Apache Solr 
> > >   -
> > >
> > >Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> > > the Apache
> > >Hadoop  framework with processors
> > > implemented
> > >with:
> > >-
> > >
> > >   Apache Spark 
> > >   -
> > >
> > >   Apache Giraph 
> > >
> > >
> > > Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
> > >
> > >-
> > >
> > >BerkeleyDB
> > >-
> > >
> > >Elasticsearch
> > >
> > >
> > > == Background ==
> > >
> > > Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius
> graph
> > > consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system
> and
> > > made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
> > > cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of
> > the
> > > Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
> > > LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich.
> Datastax
> > > acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
> > > September 2015.
> > >
> > > Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits,
> 38
> > > 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Ah the other Jadon from Datastax.
Sorry, somehow the thread did not line up properly.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Henry Saputra 
wrote:

> Which other thread are you referring to?
>
> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein  > wrote:
>
>> -1 (binding)
>>
>> See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a
>> hostile
>> fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra"  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
>> Olympian,
>> > formerly Titan.
>> > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
>> graphs so
>> > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond
>> what a
>> > single machine can provide.
>> >
>> > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
>> > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
>> > License v2.0.
>> > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
>> > Datstax.
>> > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
>> original
>> > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
>> significant
>> > interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
>> > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
>> >
>> > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
>> > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
>> > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
>> > name: Apache Olympian.
>> >
>> > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
>> >
>> >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
>> >
>> > I have also included the current text of that page below.
>> >
>> > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Henry Saputra
>> > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
>> >
>> >
>> > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
>> >
>> > == Abstract ==
>> >
>> > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
>> processing of
>> > graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
>> > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
>> for
>> > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
>> >
>> > == Proposal ==
>> >
>> > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
>> > . It supports very large
>> > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
>> processing.
>> > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
>> Olympian
>> > already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
>> >
>> >-
>> >
>> >Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
>> >exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
>> >-
>> >
>> >Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
>> defined
>> >by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
>> >-
>> >
>> >Provides graph persistence solutions with:
>> >-
>> >
>> >   Apache Cassandra 
>> >   -
>> >
>> >   Apache HBase 
>> >   -
>> >
>> >Provides advanced indexing with:
>> >-
>> >
>> >   Apache Lucene 
>> >   -
>> >
>> >   Apache Solr 
>> >   -
>> >
>> >Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
>> > the Apache
>> >Hadoop  framework with processors
>> > implemented
>> >with:
>> >-
>> >
>> >   Apache Spark 
>> >   -
>> >
>> >   Apache Giraph 
>> >
>> >
>> > Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
>> >
>> >-
>> >
>> >BerkeleyDB
>> >-
>> >
>> >Elasticsearch
>> >
>> >
>> > == Background ==
>> >
>> > Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius
>> graph
>> > consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system
>> and
>> > made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
>> > cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of
>> the
>> > Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
>> > LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich.
>> Datastax
>> > acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
>> > September 2015.
>> >
>> > Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
>> > branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
>> > activity as the original authors are busy with other software
>> development,
>> > but there is significant interest from 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Which other thread are you referring to?

On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein  wrote:

> -1 (binding)
>
> See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a hostile
> fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.
>
> On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra"  > wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> Olympian,
> > formerly Titan.
> > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs
> so
> > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what
> a
> > single machine can provide.
> >
> > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> > License v2.0.
> > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> > Datstax.
> > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> original
> > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> significant
> > interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> >
> > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> > name: Apache Olympian.
> >
> > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> >
> >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
> >
> > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> >
> > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Henry Saputra
> > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> >
> >
> > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> >
> > == Abstract ==
> >
> > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing
> of
> > graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
> for
> > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
> >
> > == Proposal ==
> >
> > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> > . It supports very large
> > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
> processing.
> > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
> Olympian
> > already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
> >
> >-
> >
> >Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
> >exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
> >-
> >
> >Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
> defined
> >by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
> >-
> >
> >Provides graph persistence solutions with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Cassandra 
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache HBase 
> >   -
> >
> >Provides advanced indexing with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Lucene 
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache Solr 
> >   -
> >
> >Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> > the Apache
> >Hadoop  framework with processors
> > implemented
> >with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Spark 
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache Giraph 
> >
> >
> > Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
> >
> >-
> >
> >BerkeleyDB
> >-
> >
> >Elasticsearch
> >
> >
> > == Background ==
> >
> > Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
> > consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
> > made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
> > cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of
> the
> > Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
> > LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
> > acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
> > September 2015.
> >
> > Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
> > branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
> > activity as the original authors are busy with other software
> development,
> > but there is significant interest from the community.
> >
> > == Rationale ==
> >
> > (1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.
> >
> > (2) Apache Atlas (incubating) 
> > packages
> > and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part of
> Apache.
> >
> > (3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

Hi Jason,

I am not a lawyer, and the following only represents my personal voice, not 
necessarily that of the ASF or my employer.

While DataStax objecting to this proposal will potentially block the incubation 
of a project based on the Titan codebase at the ASF, it will not prevent the 
same thing from happening elsewhere (i.e. outside the ASF). I think the Titan 
community would love to see this project come to the ASF. I see a strong 
community behind it that is more than capable of maintaining a fork of the 
project outside the auspices of the ASF.

DataStax has a close relationship with the ASF for obvious reasons. I know you 
are a member of the DataStax legal team, but has DataStax leadership considered 
the implications of this response from a public relations perspective as well 
as an ASF community perspective? The ASF holds communities in the highest 
regard. This action seems counter to that tenet, and would also seem to counter 
DataStax’ support of the ASF. Again, these are not legal arguments, so I would 
hope that you would forward my sentiments on to the folks at DataStax who are 
concerned with the DataStax Corporate Image.

This is a potential opportunity for DataStax to reaffirm its commitment to Open 
Source Software, as well the ASF and the communities it serves.

-Taylor



> On Sep 29, 2016, at 7:56 PM, Jason Anderson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello - my name is Jason Anderson with the DataStax legal group.  On behalf
> of DataStax, I wanted to clarify any potential confusion regarding the
> DataStax position on Titan.  As several posts here have explained, DataStax
> owns the copyright and trademark rights to Titan.  DataStax does not
> approve of and objects to the proposed forking of Titan into Olympian or
> any other ASF project.  DataStax is evaluating the path forward for the
> Titan project and considering the various go-forward licensing options.
> Titan may or may not stay ASL 2.0 licensed as there may be potentially
> broader benefits to the community with GPL or A-GPL.  At this time, we do
> not have a timetable on these decisions but will provide more details to
> the community when possible.
> 
> Jason



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Greg Stein]

-1 (binding)

See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a hostile
fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such.

On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra"  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
> formerly Titan.
> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs so
> large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what a
> single machine can provide.
>
> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> License v2.0.
> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> Datstax.
> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the original
> authors are busy with other software development, but there is significant
> interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
>
> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> name: Apache Olympian.
>
> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
>
>   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
>
> I have also included the current text of that page below.
>
> Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Henry Saputra
> On behalf of Apache Olympian community
>
>
> = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing of
> graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
> real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
>
> == Proposal ==
>
> Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> . It supports very large
> graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
> Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
> already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
>
>-
>
>Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
>exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
>-
>
>Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language defined
>by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
>-
>
>Provides graph persistence solutions with:
>-
>
>   Apache Cassandra 
>   -
>
>   Apache HBase 
>   -
>
>Provides advanced indexing with:
>-
>
>   Apache Lucene 
>   -
>
>   Apache Solr 
>   -
>
>Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> the Apache
>Hadoop  framework with processors
> implemented
>with:
>-
>
>   Apache Spark 
>   -
>
>   Apache Giraph 
>
>
> Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
>
>-
>
>BerkeleyDB
>-
>
>Elasticsearch
>
>
> == Background ==
>
> Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
> consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
> made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
> cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
> Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
> LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
> acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
> September 2015.
>
> Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
> branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
> activity as the original authors are busy with other software development,
> but there is significant interest from the community.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> (1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.
>
> (2) Apache Atlas (incubating) 
> packages
> and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part of Apache.
>
> (3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to continue
> to develop the code. These users provide the basis of the community for the
> proposed project.
>
> == Initial Goals ==
>
> The initial goals are as follows:
>
>-
>
>Establish the project governance in The Apache Way and broaden the
>community.
>-
>
>Distribute an incubating release aligned with the latest Apache
>TinkerPop version and prepared in accordance with the Apache release
>

[DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Jason Anderson]

Hello - my name is Jason Anderson with the DataStax legal group.  On behalf
of DataStax, I wanted to clarify any potential confusion regarding the
DataStax position on Titan.  As several posts here have explained, DataStax
owns the copyright and trademark rights to Titan.  DataStax does not
approve of and objects to the proposed forking of Titan into Olympian or
any other ASF project.  DataStax is evaluating the path forward for the
Titan project and considering the various go-forward licensing options.
Titan may or may not stay ASL 2.0 licensed as there may be potentially
broader benefits to the community with GPL or A-GPL.  At this time, we do
not have a timetable on these decisions but will provide more details to
the community when possible.

Jason

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Susan Malaika]

+1

-"P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgo...@gmail.com> wrote: -
To: general@incubator.apache.org
From: "P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgo...@gmail.com>
Date: 09/29/2016 06:09PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

In my mind a "hostile fork" is a fork of a project that goes against the wishes 
of the copyright holders and/or community.

I don't consider this proposal to be a hostile fork. In this case the community 
is eager to see the project move forward, but the owners of both the copyright 
and the keys to the castle (commit permissions) are no longer maintaining the 
project. Thus the community is left no other option than to fork in order to 
make any progress. The owners have also not expressed any resistance against 
the fork despite being asked several times. They have expressed an 
unwillingness to sign an SGA, but their silence when asked if they would move 
to block the proposal seems to indicate some level of approval (lazy consensus) 
to allow the proposal to move forward.

I would recommend, as was suggested earlier in this thread, that as champion 
Henry send a link to this discussion to legal@ and ask for guidance as to how 
to proceed.

-Taylor

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 3:10 PM, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Some clarification of what constitutes a “hostile fork” would indeed be 
> useful. On a few occasions I have had discussions with communities on joining 
> Apache, and this often comes up. We have relied on precedent — and in 
> particular, on-the-record comments by board members on this list — and it has 
> been working OK.
> 
> Bertrand, can you clarify what you mean by “author”. Do you mean copyright 
> holder or you mean the individuals? (In this case it is moot, as DataStax is 
> the copyright holder and the individuals are now mostly DataStax employees, 
> but in other cases it is a material distinction.)
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacre...@apache.org> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code 
>>> contributions
>>> that want to be here
>> 
>> This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
>> early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
>> not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012
>> 
>> It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
>> agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
>> their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
>> it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
>> 
>> -Bertrand
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[P. Taylor Goetz]

In my mind a "hostile fork" is a fork of a project that goes against the wishes 
of the copyright holders and/or community.

I don't consider this proposal to be a hostile fork. In this case the community 
is eager to see the project move forward, but the owners of both the copyright 
and the keys to the castle (commit permissions) are no longer maintaining the 
project. Thus the community is left no other option than to fork in order to 
make any progress. The owners have also not expressed any resistance against 
the fork despite being asked several times. They have expressed an 
unwillingness to sign an SGA, but their silence when asked if they would move 
to block the proposal seems to indicate some level of approval (lazy consensus) 
to allow the proposal to move forward.

I would recommend, as was suggested earlier in this thread, that as champion 
Henry send a link to this discussion to legal@ and ask for guidance as to how 
to proceed.

-Taylor

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 3:10 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> Some clarification of what constitutes a “hostile fork” would indeed be 
> useful. On a few occasions I have had discussions with communities on joining 
> Apache, and this often comes up. We have relied on precedent — and in 
> particular, on-the-record comments by board members on this list — and it has 
> been working OK.
> 
> Bertrand, can you clarify what you mean by “author”. Do you mean copyright 
> holder or you mean the individuals? (In this case it is moot, as DataStax is 
> the copyright holder and the individuals are now mostly DataStax employees, 
> but in other cases it is a material distinction.)
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:
>>> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code 
>>> contributions
>>> that want to be here
>> 
>> This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
>> early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
>> not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012
>> 
>> It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
>> agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
>> their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
>> it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
>> 
>> -Bertrand
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 

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RE: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler]

I think the simplest definition of a "hostile fork" is this:

Does the copyright owner object to the fork?
Yes - it's hostile
No - it’s not hostile

Ross

> -Original Message-
> From: Julian Hyde [mailto:jh...@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 3:11 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> 
> Some clarification of what constitutes a “hostile fork” would indeed be 
> useful.
> On a few occasions I have had discussions with communities on joining Apache,
> and this often comes up. We have relied on precedent — and in particular, on-
> the-record comments by board members on this list — and it has been
> working OK.
> 
> Bertrand, can you clarify what you mean by “author”. Do you mean copyright
> holder or you mean the individuals? (In this case it is moot, as DataStax is 
> the
> copyright holder and the individuals are now mostly DataStax employees, but
> in other cases it is a material distinction.)
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
> > On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code
> >> contributions that want to be here
> >
> > This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
> > early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
> > not accept, at
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs.apa
> >
> che.org%2Froy_forks_2012=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com
> %7
> >
> Cfb88d21e13994e66fc3608d3e89c5a18%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db
> 47%7
> >
> C1=Joz8YRomzG7DfCj9f%2FQ4ju0JqvgArpwM%2BS0hrTnsBdE%3D
> rved=0
> >
> > It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
> > agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
> > their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
> > it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Julian Hyde]

Some clarification of what constitutes a “hostile fork” would indeed be useful. 
On a few occasions I have had discussions with communities on joining Apache, 
and this often comes up. We have relied on precedent — and in particular, 
on-the-record comments by board members on this list — and it has been working 
OK.

Bertrand, can you clarify what you mean by “author”. Do you mean copyright 
holder or you mean the individuals? (In this case it is moot, as DataStax is 
the copyright holder and the individuals are now mostly DataStax employees, but 
in other cases it is a material distinction.)

Julian


> On Sep 29, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:
>> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code 
>> contributions
>> that want to be here
> 
> This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
> early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
> not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012
> 
> It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
> agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
> their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
> it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 


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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Chris Mattmann]

The precedent set by Bloodhound, and other projects suggest to me that 
you could simply move forward after giving legal@ a heads up and just seeing
if there are any objections..or if lazy consensus just move forward and deal
with it during Incubation.

On 9/29/16, 11:33 AM, "Henry Saputra"  wrote:

Thanks for the insights, Ross, Bertrand, JB, and Chris,

As Alan has mentioned before, we have attempted numerous times and channels
to ask DataStax whether they opposed to us taking a fork to Apache with no
avail.

If anyone has connection to Datastax or especially the Titan team here, we
would love to be connected to.

And if it contact or reply is not happening, would moving to legal@ as Ross
mentioned be good solution or next step?


- Henry

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Chris Mattmann 
wrote:

> Yep this thread sounds very similar to those discussions. I think we have
> the
> story emerging here that we can move forward with.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> On 9/29/16, 11:05 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann 
> wrote:
> > ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code
> contributions
> > that want to be here
>
> This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
> early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
> not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012
>
> It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
> agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
> their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
> it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>




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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Thanks for the insights, Ross, Bertrand, JB, and Chris,

As Alan has mentioned before, we have attempted numerous times and channels
to ask DataStax whether they opposed to us taking a fork to Apache with no
avail.

If anyone has connection to Datastax or especially the Titan team here, we
would love to be connected to.

And if it contact or reply is not happening, would moving to legal@ as Ross
mentioned be good solution or next step?


- Henry

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Chris Mattmann 
wrote:

> Yep this thread sounds very similar to those discussions. I think we have
> the
> story emerging here that we can move forward with.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> On 9/29/16, 11:05 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann 
> wrote:
> > ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code
> contributions
> > that want to be here
>
> This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
> early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
> not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012
>
> It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
> agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
> their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
> it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Chris Mattmann]

Yep this thread sounds very similar to those discussions. I think we have the 
story emerging here that we can move forward with.

Cheers,
Chris




On 9/29/16, 11:05 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz"  wrote:

Hi Chris,

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:
> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code 
contributions
> that want to be here

This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012

It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Chris,

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:
> ...I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code 
> contributions
> that want to be here

This sounds similar to the discussions we had about Bloodhound back in
early 2012 - Roy had some good comments about what we should or should
not accept, at https://s.apache.org/roy_forks_2012

It's not all black and white, but IMO we do need some form of
agreement from the original authors about the ASF taking control of
their code. Or maybe a demonstration that they really don't care about
it anymore, which some of the info in this thread hints to.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Chris Mattmann]

Ross is correct.

Chris




On 9/29/16, 8:15 AM, "Ross Gardler" <ross.gard...@microsoft.com> wrote:

OK, if Datastax are not objecting to the move then this is not a hostile 
fork. You should have your champion get clearance from legal@ for accepting 
this code under the open source license it is published under rather than under 
the SGA.

Ross

> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Wilmes [mailto:twil...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:12 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; mbruk...@google.com
    > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> 
> Hello Ross,
> Per another one of the proposal submitters, Misha Brukman: "Datastax is 
not
> against the move of Titan to ASF but has stated that they will neither 
support
> or block it, as long as it doesn't involve them participating or signing 
the
> software grant"  I've CC'ed him to get him onto this thread.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ted
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I see the GitHub code is untouched for over a year. Are Datastax
> > objecting to the proposal or is it just that they are unwilling to
> > actively supporting it?
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:j...@nanthrax.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:23 AM
> > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> > >
> > > Hi Susan,
> > >
> > > community interest is the key part for sure. But we would like to
> > > avoid
> > any
> > > trouble about the grant agreement, etc.
> > >
> > > Just my $0.01
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On 09/29/2016 03:03 PM, Susan Malaika wrote:
> > > > Hi JB
> > > > Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they
> > > > will
> > not sign
> > > the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator
> > proposal
> > > can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community 
interest.
> > > > Susan Malaika
> > > >
> > > > -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> > > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> > > > Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> > > >
> > > > Hi Henry,
> > > >
> > > > Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
> > > >
> > > > Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't
> > > > be able to easy to head to graduation.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > > >> Hi All,
> > > >>
> > > >> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > > >> Olympian, formerly Titan.
> > > >> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> > > >> graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> > > >> capacities beyond what a single machine can provide.
> > > >>
> > > >> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >> gith
> > > >>
> > >
> ub.com%2Fthinkaurelius%2Ftitan%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40mic
> > >
> rosoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> > >
> 2d7cd011db47%7C1=J9Ur0GJAXUuWr1pLwivOkykimmgPEoOK5kB1vDJlI
> > > JM%3D=0) that already come with Apache License v2.0.
> > > >> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was
> > > >> acquired by Datstax.
> > > >> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > > >> original authors are busy with other software development, but
> > > >> there is significant interest from the community (see
> > > 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Chris Mattmann]

Hi Bertrand,

I have a bit of a different understanding. We only accept code contributions
that want to be here. If the license for this project is ALv2 upstream from 
DataStax
then the community coming here for Olympian may fork the project and so long as
those committers and PMC part of the new project have ICLAs on file, there need 
not
be any informal agreement with any company. The company owns the name, the 
trademark,
etc., but the license allows forks and new communities to be made.

Cheers,
Chris


On 9/29/16, 1:20 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz"  wrote:

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Henry Saputra  
wrote:
> ...This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project...
> ...The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> Datstax...

We only accept friendly forks, and it looks like Titan belongs to
DataStax, so IMO you need at least an informal agreement from them
before forking at the ASF.

-Bertrand

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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Alan Gates]

When we asked DataStax if they would sign a code grant, they were clear that 
they would not.  When we asked if they were opposed to us taking a fork to 
Apache, we got no response, despite trying on multiple channels.  I don’t know 
if this is enough to accept the podling or not, but it’s the best we’re going 
to get.

Alan.

> On Sep 29, 2016, at 01:20, Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Henry Saputra  
> wrote:
>> ...This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project...
>> ...The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
>> Datstax...
> 
> We only accept friendly forks, and it looks like Titan belongs to
> DataStax, so IMO you need at least an informal agreement from them
> before forking at the ASF.
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 


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Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

I think we are in similar situation like Metron (https://wiki.apache.org/
incubator/MetronProposal) where there is also need to fork from original
repo.

- Henry

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Susan Malaika <mala...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Hi JB
> Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will not
> sign  the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator
> proposal can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community
> interest.
> Susan Malaika
>
> -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
>
> Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be
> able to easy to head to graduation.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> Olympian,
> > formerly Titan.
> > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs
> so
> > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what
> a
> > single machine can provide.
> >
> > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> > License v2.0.
> > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> > Datstax.
> > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> original
> > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> significant
> > interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> >
> > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> > name: Apache Olympian.
> >
> > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> >
> >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
> >
> > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> >
> > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Henry Saputra
> > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> >
> >
> > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> >
> > == Abstract ==
> >
> > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing
> of
> > graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
> for
> > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
> >
> > == Proposal ==
> >
> > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> > <http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0>. It supports very large
> > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
> processing.
> > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
> Olympian
> > already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
> >
> >-
> >
> >Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
> >exposed by Apache TinkerPop <http://tinkerpop.apache.org/>.
> >-
> >
> >Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language
> defined
> >by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
> >-
> >
> >Provides graph persistence solutions with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Cassandra <http://cassandra.apache.org/>
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache HBase <https://hbase.apache.org/>
> >   -
> >
> >Provides advanced indexing with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Lucene <https://lucene.apache.org/>
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache Solr <http://lucene.apache.org/solr/>
> >   -
> >
> >Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> > the Apache
> >Hadoop <http://hadoop.apache.org/> framework with processors
> implemented
> >with:
> >-
> >
> >   Apache Spark <http://spark.apache.org/>
> >   -
> >
> >   Apache Giraph <http://giraph.apache.org/>
> >
> >
> > Other soft

RE: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler]

OK, if Datastax are not objecting to the move then this is not a hostile fork. 
You should have your champion get clearance from legal@ for accepting this code 
under the open source license it is published under rather than under the SGA.

Ross

> -Original Message-
> From: Ted Wilmes [mailto:twil...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 11:12 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; mbruk...@google.com
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> 
> Hello Ross,
> Per another one of the proposal submitters, Misha Brukman: "Datastax is not
> against the move of Titan to ASF but has stated that they will neither support
> or block it, as long as it doesn't involve them participating or signing the
> software grant"  I've CC'ed him to get him onto this thread.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ted
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I see the GitHub code is untouched for over a year. Are Datastax
> > objecting to the proposal or is it just that they are unwilling to
> > actively supporting it?
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:j...@nanthrax.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:23 AM
> > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> > >
> > > Hi Susan,
> > >
> > > community interest is the key part for sure. But we would like to
> > > avoid
> > any
> > > trouble about the grant agreement, etc.
> > >
> > > Just my $0.01
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On 09/29/2016 03:03 PM, Susan Malaika wrote:
> > > > Hi JB
> > > > Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they
> > > > will
> > not sign
> > > the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator
> > proposal
> > > can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community interest.
> > > > Susan Malaika
> > > >
> > > > -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> > > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> > > > Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> > > >
> > > > Hi Henry,
> > > >
> > > > Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
> > > >
> > > > Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't
> > > > be able to easy to head to graduation.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > > On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > > >> Hi All,
> > > >>
> > > >> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > > >> Olympian, formerly Titan.
> > > >> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> > > >> graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> > > >> capacities beyond what a single machine can provide.
> > > >>
> > > >> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >> gith
> > > >>
> > >
> ub.com%2Fthinkaurelius%2Ftitan%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40mic
> > >
> rosoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> > >
> 2d7cd011db47%7C1=J9Ur0GJAXUuWr1pLwivOkykimmgPEoOK5kB1vDJlI
> > > JM%3D=0) that already come with Apache License v2.0.
> > > >> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was
> > > >> acquired by Datstax.
> > > >> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > > >> original authors are busy with other software development, but
> > > >> there is significant interest from the community (see
> > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > >> grou
> > > >>
> > >
> ps.google.com%2Fforum%2F%23!msg%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%4
> > > 0micr
> > > >>
> > >
> osoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> > > 2d
> > > >>
> > >
> 7cd011db47%7C1=wwJsPajQfTfxZgrF5wwBX04kk4v7iJ0afZ0NDlYWQck%
> > > 3D
> > > >> eserved=0
&g

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ted Wilmes]

Hello Ross,
Per another one of the proposal submitters, Misha Brukman: "Datastax is not
against the move of Titan to ASF but has stated that they will neither
support or block it, as long as it doesn't involve them participating or
signing the software grant"  I've CC'ed him to get him onto this thread.

Thanks,
Ted

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com>
wrote:

> I see the GitHub code is untouched for over a year. Are Datastax objecting
> to the proposal or is it just that they are unwilling to actively
> supporting it?
>
> Ross
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:j...@nanthrax.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:23 AM
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> >
> > Hi Susan,
> >
> > community interest is the key part for sure. But we would like to avoid
> any
> > trouble about the grant agreement, etc.
> >
> > Just my $0.01
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 09/29/2016 03:03 PM, Susan Malaika wrote:
> > > Hi JB
> > > Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will
> not sign
> > the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator
> proposal
> > can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community interest.
> > > Susan Malaika
> > >
> > > -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> > > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> > > Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> > >
> > > Hi Henry,
> > >
> > > Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
> > >
> > > Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be
> > > able to easy to head to graduation.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> > >> Olympian, formerly Titan.
> > >> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> > >> graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> > >> capacities beyond what a single machine can provide.
> > >>
> > >> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
> > >>
> > ub.com%2Fthinkaurelius%2Ftitan%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40mic
> > rosoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> > 2d7cd011db47%7C1=J9Ur0GJAXUuWr1pLwivOkykimmgPEoOK5kB1vDJlI
> > JM%3D=0) that already come with Apache License v2.0.
> > >> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired
> > >> by Datstax.
> > >> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> > >> original authors are busy with other software development, but there
> > >> is significant interest from the community (see
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgrou
> > >>
> > ps.google.com%2Fforum%2F%23!msg%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%4
> > 0micr
> > >>
> > osoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> > 2d
> > >>
> > 7cd011db47%7C1=wwJsPajQfTfxZgrF5wwBX04kk4v7iJ0afZ0NDlYWQck%
> > 3D
> > >> eserved=0
> > >> aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> > >>
> > >> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > >> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > >> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with
> > >> different
> > >> name: Apache Olympian.
> > >>
> > >> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki
> > >>
> > .apache.org%2Fincubator%2FOlympianProposal=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardl
> > e
> > >>
> > r%40microsoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f1
> > 41
> > >>
> > af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=FBoFYhxDxEH25OjeRZYE2KrsrUIePZnG9Ce1
> > 2R7o
> > >> Ry0%3D=0
> > >>
> > >> I have also included the current text of that pag

RE: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Ross Gardler]

I see the GitHub code is untouched for over a year. Are Datastax objecting to 
the proposal or is it just that they are unwilling to actively supporting it? 

Ross

> -Original Message-
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:j...@nanthrax.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:23 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> 
> Hi Susan,
> 
> community interest is the key part for sure. But we would like to avoid any
> trouble about the grant agreement, etc.
> 
> Just my $0.01
> 
> Regards
> JB
> 
> On 09/29/2016 03:03 PM, Susan Malaika wrote:
> > Hi JB
> > Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will not 
> > sign
> the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator proposal
> can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community interest.
> > Susan Malaika
> >
> > -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> > Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
> >
> > Hi Henry,
> >
> > Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
> >
> > Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be
> > able to easy to head to graduation.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> >> Olympian, formerly Titan.
> >> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of
> >> graphs so large that they require storage and computational
> >> capacities beyond what a single machine can provide.
> >>
> >> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
> >>
> ub.com%2Fthinkaurelius%2Ftitan%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40mic
> rosoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> 2d7cd011db47%7C1=J9Ur0GJAXUuWr1pLwivOkykimmgPEoOK5kB1vDJlI
> JM%3D=0) that already come with Apache License v2.0.
> >> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired
> >> by Datstax.
> >> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> >> original authors are busy with other software development, but there
> >> is significant interest from the community (see
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgrou
> >>
> ps.google.com%2Fforum%2F%23!msg%2F=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%4
> 0micr
> >>
> osoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab
> 2d
> >>
> 7cd011db47%7C1=wwJsPajQfTfxZgrF5wwBX04kk4v7iJ0afZ0NDlYWQck%
> 3D
> >> eserved=0
> >> aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> >>
> >> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> >> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> >> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with
> >> different
> >> name: Apache Olympian.
> >>
> >> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> >>
> >>
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki
> >>
> .apache.org%2Fincubator%2FOlympianProposal=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardl
> e
> >>
> r%40microsoft.com%7Cbff6cec6c3514332c7ac08d3e87433d0%7C72f988bf86f1
> 41
> >>
> af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1=FBoFYhxDxEH25OjeRZYE2KrsrUIePZnG9Ce1
> 2R7o
> >> Ry0%3D=0
> >>
> >> I have also included the current text of that page below.
> >>
> >> Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Henry Saputra
> >> On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> >>
> >>
> >> = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> >>
> >> == Abstract ==
> >>
> >> Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the
> >> processing of graphs so large that they require storage and
> >> computational capacities beyond what a single machine can provide.
> >> Scaling graph data processing for real time traversals and analytical 
> >> queries
> is Olympian’s main benefit.
> >>
> >> == Proposal ==
> >>
> >> Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2
> >> license
> >>
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.out

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Susan,

community interest is the key part for sure. But we would like to avoid 
any trouble about the grant agreement, etc.


Just my $0.01

Regards
JB

On 09/29/2016 03:03 PM, Susan Malaika wrote:

Hi JB
Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will not sign  
the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator proposal can 
proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community interest.
Susan Malaika

-Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
To: general@incubator.apache.org
From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

Hi Henry,

Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?

Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be
able to easy to head to graduation.

Regards
JB

On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:

Hi All,

Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
formerly Titan.
Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs so
large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what a
single machine can provide.

This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
License v2.0.
The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
Datstax.
Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the original
authors are busy with other software development, but there is significant
interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)

The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
name: Apache Olympian.

The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:

  https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal

I have also included the current text of that page below.

Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.


Thanks,
Henry Saputra
On behalf of Apache Olympian community


= Apache Olympian Proposal ==

== Abstract ==

Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing of
graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.

== Proposal ==

Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
<http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0>. It supports very large
graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
already integrates with a number of Apache projects:

   -

   Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
   exposed by Apache TinkerPop <http://tinkerpop.apache.org/>.
   -

   Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language defined
   by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
   -

   Provides graph persistence solutions with:
   -

  Apache Cassandra <http://cassandra.apache.org/>
  -

  Apache HBase <https://hbase.apache.org/>
  -

   Provides advanced indexing with:
   -

  Apache Lucene <https://lucene.apache.org/>
  -

  Apache Solr <http://lucene.apache.org/solr/>
  -

   Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
the Apache
   Hadoop <http://hadoop.apache.org/> framework with processors implemented
   with:
   -

  Apache Spark <http://spark.apache.org/>
  -

  Apache Giraph <http://giraph.apache.org/>


Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:

   -

   BerkeleyDB
   -

   Elasticsearch


== Background ==

Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
September 2015.

Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
activity as the original authors are busy with other software development,
but there is significant interest from the community.

== Rationale ==

(1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.

(2) Apache Atlas (incubating) <http://atlas.incubator.apache.org/> packages
and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is no

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Jason Plurad]

The Titan community is serviced by the aureliusgraphs Google group, which
is actually moderated by Datastax employees. I started a thread last week
about continuing progress with Titan at Apache [1]. The intent with this
proposal is not to fracture the Titan community, rather to preserve it. The
community has been concerned about this for a long time with little
response from Datastax [2][3][4].

Development on Titan by Datastax appears to be abandoned. The latest
release of Titan was over a year ago. There is a titan11 branch with more
recent development, but the last commit on that branch was 4 months ago.
There are many pull requests ready for review/merge, including one to
update Apache TinkerPop support, but those appear to be waiting on efforts
from the lead Titan developers when they are free to do so [5]. The two
lead developers of Titan have not appeared on the Google group in over 6
months. The last message from Matthias: September 2015, Dan: March 2016.

We are aware of potential issues with the name Olympian. If accepted into
the incubator, further research and consideration on selecting a new name
will be done, as described in the proposal.

-- Jason

[1] Sep 19
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ
[2] Apr 11
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aureliusgraphs/R0RJnvVbgCs/vkYEsXD3HgAJ
[3] Jun 30
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aureliusgraphs/8chVUNHqHTA/i-N5b0Q3BQAJ
[4] Jan 7
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aureliusgraphs/e5L5M6MQozY/QHXtx5hFAwAJ
[5] May 4 https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/pull/1312


On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:03 AM, Susan Malaika <mala...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Hi JB
> Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will not
> sign  the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator
> proposal can proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community
> interest.
> Susan Malaika
>
> -Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
> Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal
>
> Hi Henry,
>
> Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?
>
> Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be
> able to easy to head to graduation.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache
> Olympian,
> > formerly Titan.
> > Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs
> so
> > large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what
> a
> > single machine can provide.
> >
> > This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> > https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> > License v2.0.
> > The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> > Datstax.
> > Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the
> original
> > authors are busy with other software development, but there is
> significant
> > interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> > aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
> >
> > The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> > copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> > Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> > name: Apache Olympian.
> >
> > The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
> >
> >   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
> >
> > I have also included the current text of that page below.
> >
> > Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Henry Saputra
> > On behalf of Apache Olympian community
> >
> >
> > = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
> >
> > == Abstract ==
> >
> > Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing
> of
> > graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> > beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing
> for
> > real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
> >
> > == Proposal ==
> >
> > Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> > <http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0>. It supports very large
> > graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph
> processing.
> > Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster.
> Olympian
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Susan Malaika]

Hi JB
Datastax know about the incubator effort. As far as I know they will not sign  
the grant agreement. I was under the impression that the incubator proposal can 
proceed after discussion if there is sufficient community interest.
Susan Malaika

-Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: -
To: general@incubator.apache.org
From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net>
Date: 09/29/2016 08:43AM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

Hi Henry,

Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?

Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be 
able to easy to head to graduation.

Regards
JB

On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
> formerly Titan.
> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs so
> large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what a
> single machine can provide.
>
> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
> https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
> License v2.0.
> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> Datstax.
> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the original
> authors are busy with other software development, but there is significant
> interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
> aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)
>
> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
> name: Apache Olympian.
>
> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:
>
>   https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal
>
> I have also included the current text of that page below.
>
> Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Henry Saputra
> On behalf of Apache Olympian community
>
>
> = Apache Olympian Proposal ==
>
> == Abstract ==
>
> Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing of
> graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
> beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
> real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.
>
> == Proposal ==
>
> Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0>. It supports very large
> graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
> Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
> already integrates with a number of Apache projects:
>
>-
>
>Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
>exposed by Apache TinkerPop <http://tinkerpop.apache.org/>.
>-
>
>Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language defined
>by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
>-
>
>Provides graph persistence solutions with:
>-
>
>   Apache Cassandra <http://cassandra.apache.org/>
>   -
>
>   Apache HBase <https://hbase.apache.org/>
>   -
>
>Provides advanced indexing with:
>-
>
>   Apache Lucene <https://lucene.apache.org/>
>   -
>
>   Apache Solr <http://lucene.apache.org/solr/>
>   -
>
>Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
> the Apache
>Hadoop <http://hadoop.apache.org/> framework with processors implemented
>with:
>-
>
>   Apache Spark <http://spark.apache.org/>
>   -
>
>   Apache Giraph <http://giraph.apache.org/>
>
>
> Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:
>
>-
>
>BerkeleyDB
>-
>
>Elasticsearch
>
>
> == Background ==
>
> Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
> consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
> made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
> cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
> Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
> LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
> acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
> September 2015.
>
> Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
> branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
> activi

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi Henry,

Is DataStax know and agree with the fork ?

Else, the Software Grant Agreement won't be possible and it won't be 
able to easy to head to graduation.


Regards
JB

On 09/29/2016 06:01 AM, Henry Saputra wrote:

Hi All,

Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
formerly Titan.
Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs so
large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what a
single machine can provide.

This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
License v2.0.
The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
Datstax.
Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the original
authors are busy with other software development, but there is significant
interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)

The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
name: Apache Olympian.

The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:

  https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal

I have also included the current text of that page below.

Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.


Thanks,
Henry Saputra
On behalf of Apache Olympian community


= Apache Olympian Proposal ==

== Abstract ==

Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing of
graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.

== Proposal ==

Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
. It supports very large
graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
already integrates with a number of Apache projects:

   -

   Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
   exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
   -

   Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language defined
   by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
   -

   Provides graph persistence solutions with:
   -

  Apache Cassandra 
  -

  Apache HBase 
  -

   Provides advanced indexing with:
   -

  Apache Lucene 
  -

  Apache Solr 
  -

   Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
the Apache
   Hadoop  framework with processors implemented
   with:
   -

  Apache Spark 
  -

  Apache Giraph 


Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:

   -

   BerkeleyDB
   -

   Elasticsearch


== Background ==

Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
September 2015.

Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
activity as the original authors are busy with other software development,
but there is significant interest from the community.

== Rationale ==

(1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.

(2) Apache Atlas (incubating)  packages
and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part of Apache.

(3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to continue
to develop the code. These users provide the basis of the community for the
proposed project.

== Initial Goals ==

The initial goals are as follows:

   -

   Establish the project governance in The Apache Way and broaden the
   community.
   -

   Distribute an incubating release aligned with the latest Apache
   TinkerPop version and prepared in accordance with the Apache release
   process.
   -

   Improve the documentation.
   -

   Add more unit/scenario tests.
   -

   Contribute functional and performance-related enhancements to the code.


== Current Status ==

The project will be forked off the existing Titan code base. This code 

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Henry Saputra  wrote:
> ...This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project...
> ...The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
> Datstax...

We only accept friendly forks, and it looks like Titan belongs to
DataStax, so IMO you need at least an informal agreement from them
before forking at the ASF.

-Bertrand

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Stian Soiland-Reyes]

+1 as a red flag, but not a blocker.  For it to work, larger parts of the
existing contributors need to be convinced to join the Apache effort. There
are not license differences, so cross-pollination is possible.

Another concern is the name "Olympian", the International Olympic Committee
is well known for pursuing any use of their (real or perceived) trademarks.

On 29 Sep 2016 8:17 a.m., "toki"  wrote:

> On 29/09/2016 04:01, Henry Saputra wrote:
> > The project will be forked off the existing Titan code base.
>
> That is a red flag.
>
> jonathon
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[toki]

On 29/09/2016 04:01, Henry Saputra wrote:
> The project will be forked off the existing Titan code base.

That is a red flag.

jonathon

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

[DISCUSS] Olympian Incubation Proposal

[Henry Saputra]

Hi All,

Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache Olympian,
formerly Titan.
Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of graphs so
large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond what a
single machine can provide.

This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project (
https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache
License v2.0.
The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by
Datstax.
Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the original
authors are busy with other software development, but there is significant
interest from the community (see https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/
aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ)

The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the
copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved.
Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different
name: Apache Olympian.

The wiki proposal page is located at this URL:

  https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal

I have also included the current text of that page below.

Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal.


Thanks,
Henry Saputra
On behalf of Apache Olympian community


= Apache Olympian Proposal ==

== Abstract ==

Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the processing of
graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities
beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing for
real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit.

== Proposal ==

Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license
. It supports very large
graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph processing.
Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. Olympian
already integrates with a number of Apache projects:

   -

   Provides native support for the popular property graph data model
   exposed by Apache TinkerPop .
   -

   Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language defined
   by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity.
   -

   Provides graph persistence solutions with:
   -

  Apache Cassandra 
  -

  Apache HBase 
  -

   Provides advanced indexing with:
   -

  Apache Lucene 
  -

  Apache Solr 
  -

   Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through
the Apache
   Hadoop  framework with processors implemented
   with:
   -

  Apache Spark 
  -

  Apache Giraph 


Other software Olympian interfaces with includes:

   -

   BerkeleyDB
   -

   Elasticsearch


== Background ==

Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius graph
consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system and
made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a
cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of the
Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan
LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. Datastax
acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in
September 2015.

Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, 38
branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors.  In 2016 there has been less
activity as the original authors are busy with other software development,
but there is significant interest from the community.

== Rationale ==

(1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan.

(2) Apache Atlas (incubating)  packages
and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part of Apache.

(3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to continue
to develop the code. These users provide the basis of the community for the
proposed project.

== Initial Goals ==

The initial goals are as follows:

   -

   Establish the project governance in The Apache Way and broaden the
   community.
   -

   Distribute an incubating release aligned with the latest Apache
   TinkerPop version and prepared in accordance with the Apache release
   process.
   -

   Improve the documentation.
   -

   Add more unit/scenario tests.
   -

   Contribute functional and performance-related enhancements to the code.


== Current Status ==

The project will be forked off the existing Titan code base. This code has
been available under the Apache 2 License but has not been subject to the
Apache governance. The proposed project will adhere to Apache’s governance
and processes. This is one of the key benefits and reasons for