On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:10, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I was leafing through my copy of A Pattern Language by Alexander,
Ishikawa and Silverstein, which is really about architecture of human
habitat (buildings and environs), and ran across some interesting
assertions about society and groups.
Peter Donald wrote:
Effectively XML/Jakarta would become a single city with a mosaic of
subcultures. Already we have different sub-cultures which are effectively
defined by the committers - when a committer is a member of multiple projects
they tend to imbue the projects with their own
I agree except that I think the cities here are the subprojects, like
Velocity and Struts, and the projects, like Jakarta and XML, are just
arbitrary containers (lines on a map). Subprojects are like cities,
Projects are like states (or provinces), and ASF is the nation.
I don't think an
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I thought I would share, as my thinking about removing community containers
here in Jakarta, XML et al resonates well this.
Personally, I just think its mainly a matter of packaging. By
definination, we are all trying to share the same ASF culture, though
each
On 1/6/02 3:52 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:10, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I was leafing through my copy of A Pattern Language by Alexander,
Ishikawa and Silverstein, which is really about architecture of human
habitat (buildings and environs), and ran
On 1/6/02 8:06 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I thought I would share, as my thinking about removing community containers
here in Jakarta, XML et al resonates well this.
Personally, I just think its mainly a matter of packaging. By
definination, we are
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On 1/6/02 8:06 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I thought I would share, as my thinking about removing community containers
here in Jakarta, XML et al resonates well this.
Personally, I just think its mainly a matter of
Ooops, should have been
I believe that the subcultures exist mainly at the subproject level. The
PROJECTS, like many states and provinces are, simply granfalloons.
http://www.kcoyle.net/granfalloons.html
-T.
Ted Husted wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On 1/6/02 8:06
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 00:22, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On 1/6/02 8:06 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I thought I would share, as my thinking about removing community
containers here in Jakarta, XML et al resonates well this.
Personally, I just think its
Ted Husted wrote:
(1) That we petition the ASF to change our charter and remove the word
server, so what we are simply charged with providing production
quality solutions on the Java platform.
[I'd link to our charter, but can't find the ASF minutes any more, and
don't know where else it
Ted Husted wrote:
So I'm thinking we might propose that our charter be amended to
RESOLVED, that the Jakarta Project Management Committee be and
hereby is responsible for the creation and maintenance of
-1 commercial-quality, open-source, server-side solutions for the Java
+1
Peter Donald wrote:
Alternatively, perhaps we might consider something like a public
apache-projects list, where all the PMCs would meet and discuss
issues
like this, and conduct the formal votes, and let the general lists
revert back to a chat room.
I can't see the PHP people being too
At 10:29 06.01.2002 -0500, you wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
(1) That we petition the ASF to change our charter and remove the word
server, so what we are simply charged with providing production
quality solutions on the Java platform.
[I'd link to our charter, but can't find the ASF minutes any
Sam Ruby wrote:
I think Roy's reaction is highly predicatable, and should be anticipated.
From http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html :
Roy identified two potential showstoppers and (1) if there
was overlap with other PMCs (example: Cocoon), and (2) if the
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 03:08, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Some of the existing projects within Jakarta are server-side only, others
are client-side as well as server-side, none are client-side only.
except for JMeter ?
--
Cheers,
Pete
Here we go again,
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 4:45 AM
Playing Devil's advocate. I think it's fair to push back on adding things
to Jakarta...
On 1/5/02 9:53 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/6/02 10:29 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
(1) That we petition the ASF to change our charter and remove the word
server, so what we are simply charged with providing production
quality solutions on the Java platform.
[I'd link to our charter, but can't find
At 03:35 07.01.2002 +1100, you wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 03:08, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Some of the existing projects within Jakarta are server-side only, others
are client-side as well as server-side, none are client-side only.
except for JMeter ?
Well, JMeter is a client application to test
On 1/6/02 11:38 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 03:25, Ted Husted wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
I think Roy's reaction is highly predicatable, and should be anticipated.
From http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html :
Roy identified two
On 1/6/02 12:18 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here we go again,
Alas.
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 4:45 AM
Playing Devil's advocate. I think it's fair to push back on adding things
to
Again...
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:14 PM
On 1/6/02 12:11 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... Lots of is it server or is it client talk ...
I just mean that sometimes saying that something is
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:14, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
BTW, do you know they use Velocity for something???
Who, POI?
Cocoon have a VelocityGenerator (the first stage in their XML transformation
pipeline).
--
Cheers,
Pete
--
you've made a
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I'll continue to swim upstream.
Take POI, Ant, BCEL, Oro, Regexp and make that the core of a new client-side
project...
Our e-mails crossed in the ether. My point: the above needs a champion.
And the proposal needs to be supported by the committers of the affected
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:06, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I'll continue to swim upstream.
Take POI, Ant, BCEL, Oro, Regexp and make that the core of a new
client-side project...
wouldn't all those projects be out of scope of a client-side project as none
of them are client-side?
--
Cheers,
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:57, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
So the problematic part of the conversation is that we are hung up on the
literal semantics behind the words 'client' and 'server' and would be good
to explore that.
Or maybe we should just recognize that use of those terms is relatively
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:06, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
So, the word server-side might require some further clarification, but
removing it completely is not just a cosmetic change. It means opening the
flood-gates.
The flood gates were opened long ago. Maintianing things like Ant Oro
Avalon/Framework
On 1/6/02 12:48 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 04:01, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Maybe we could just start having sub-catgories within Jakarta. So
basically Jakarta is still the top level project but we have a software
map underneath it that categorizes project
Answer inline
-Original Message-
From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 3:53 AM
...
I can not express this POV better than Linus did in posts reported
by
this article:
http://kerneltrap.org/article.php?sid=398
Any corporation
Peter Donald wrote:
Again, you might think the above is flip, but you are talking about
modifying the charter here...
The charter was modified ages ago. Sure the words haven't changed but it has
been a long time since jakarta project was actually true to the words in its
charter ... see
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I would again try to get is to consider that we have a great chance to
use a
strong community to anchor a new project. Jakarta can't grow forever.
When do you decide to actually step up and try to make a change? I hope
it's *before* the outside perception of
On 1/6/02 1:26 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Peter Donald wrote:
Again, you might think the above is flip, but you are talking about
modifying the charter here...
The charter was modified ages ago. Sure the words haven't changed but it has
been a long time since jakarta project
In futherance of the work begun the other day, I broke the subproject
list into three general categories, to increase readability.
Libraries, Tools, and APIs
Frameworks and Engines
Server Applications
I based the initial categories and placements on how the subprojects
described themselves.
Lazy consensus. If anyone doesn't like it, they can change it :)
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Cool. I am assuming that you will ask each project where they belong?
:)
-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web
Or maybe we should just recognize that use of those terms is relatively
arbitrary for many (most?) of the jakarta projects and throw it away
completely?
That is exactly what I think.
Paulo
-Original Message-
From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
Shouldn't...
Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
Lucene and Oro be in the same category?
Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same
I was just using it as a platform for the topic I really want to discuss.
Go for the topic.
=:o)
I think that we are already discussing that topic but POI is now becoming
more of a distraction than an example.
Name the topic and I will try not to get distracted.
=;o)
Have fun,
Paulo
Any takers?
Hard to tell where we're going when we don't know where we've been.
Here's all I got:
http://java.apache.org/main/constitution.html
Pier to Jon - Thu, 21 Dec 2000
We've traveled a long
way together, from my very first steps in open-source land in January 1998,
to our marvelous
Sam Ruby wrote:
My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful.
Not unlike the Apache Projects =:)
-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
--
To unsubscribe,
On 1/6/02 1:59 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
With the the high threshold of entry I doubt jakarta will ever be in the same
category as sourceforge - I can't see that as anything but a strawman that is
brought up every now and again ;)
Here is the threshold of entry as stated by
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:49, Sam Ruby wrote:
Peter Donald wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
Shouldn't...
Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
Lucene and Oro
On 1/6/02 2:21 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
Shouldn't...
Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
Lucene and Oro be in the
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
different technologies (ie c vs java).
Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category?
different technologies (ie c vs java)
Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same
On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
different technologies (ie c vs java).
So what? You didn't think that mattered before.
Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the
on 1/6/02 1:45 PM, Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jon, I presume that you are talking about the subject, and not the text you
are quoting. In any case, a framework independent validator seems to me to
be valuable a reusable component. If one or both can't be restructed to be
framework
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
on 1/6/02 11:33 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know you're supposed to be silent when you agree with stuff
Who said that?
Yes... not with Apache Voting Rules...
Kevin
- --
on 1/6/02 11:33 AM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know you're supposed to be silent when you agree with stuff
Who said that?
-jon
I meant rather than a bunch of me-too ing. I thought I read that
somewhere once. Or maybe its because I have low oxygen to the brain
right
Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
Jon, I presume that you are talking about the subject, and not the text you
are quoting. In any case, a framework independent validator seems to me to
be valuable a reusable component. If one or both can't be restructed to be
framework independent, then that would
Andrew C. Oliver typed the following on 06:10 PM 1/6/2002 -0500
YANKEES PLEASE READ THIS:
Please come get your white stuff off of the ground and take it back up
North where it belongs. We have no need for it here in the South.
Yeah? Try it here in Istanbul! I crowed to all my friends back
Kief Morris typed the following:
Andrew C. Oliver typed the following on 06:10 PM 1/6/2002 -0500
YANKEES PLEASE READ THIS:
Please come get your white stuff off of the ground and take it back up
North where it belongs. We have no need for it here in the South.
Yeah? Try it here in
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:55 PM
On 1/6/02 12:58 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
If you start at the top of the thread, I declare I am playing devils'
advocate, and addressing the three
You need a search engine for these little things maybe off the main
page. With something catchy under it like High your software has
already been written for you...find it here. This would ecourage
useful javadoc comments as well. So if I type tree I should see all
the tree classes in the
On 1/6/02 9:10 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 6:55 PM
On 1/6/02 12:58 PM, Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
If you start at the top of the thread, I
On 1/6/02 9:51 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies. I'll shut up now until my brain un-freezes. :-D
-Andy
Sheesh. Give southerners a dusting of snow and all goes pear shaped... :)
--
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System
On 1/6/02 9:51 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies. I'll shut up now until my brain un-freezes. :-D
-Andy
Sheesh. Give southerners a dusting of snow and all goes pear shaped...
:)
Thats right... keep that white junk up there. We're not interested in
it.
To be
Sorry, wrong group. Try jboss.org
birendra kumar padhi wrote:
When i start the JBoss server i am getting this error
message.
Please help me.
Birendra Padhi
[Info] Java version: 1.3.1_01,Sun Microsystems Inc.
[Info] Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
Yeah RIGHT. Northern cars don't even HAVE blinkers!
When up north I drive real slow in the just left of the right lane
(avoid northern style kamikaze merges) with my hazard lights on going
about 70 (which must be below the minimum speed limit). BTW the north
to me starts just a little above
On 1/6/02 11:14 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah RIGHT. Northern cars don't even HAVE blinkers!
Of course not - then you would know when we are about to cut you off...
When up north I drive real slow in the just left of the right lane
(avoid northern style kamikaze
On 1/6/02 5:26 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
different
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