Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Chris Mohler]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
> It's basically just a content swap. It still needs to be entirely restyled.
> Also, I found something out. If I change one of the classes, the body
> becomes fluid. The problem with that is the images (the browser icons on the
> page) and the text end up too far apart on the body.
>
> This is the exact reason why I chose to go for a static design. The mockup
> that Mike made doesn't exactly work with a fluid design unfortunately.
> Unless we come up with something different, I'm afraid we'll be stuck with a
> static design.

There's a difference between the grid:
http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/scaffolding.html#gridSystem

and the fluid grid:
http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/scaffolding.html#fluidGridSystem

I've only given the proposed layout a once-over, but I'm pretty sure
you want to use the default grid, not the fluid, for this layout.

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Chris Mohler]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:
> Also to pipe in my 2 cents.  I checked the site in a mobile browser.  I
> understand it's completely new and totally alpha code.  That being said: I
> don't think it's useful for the Download link to show up in the mobile
> interface.  Something to think about.  I'm not sure how I'd handle that
> (maybe with JavaScript but that's still not desirable).  UserAgents can
> easily be parsed on the server side but it sounds like static flat files
> generated is favored over server side execution for serving html.

I don't think the link should be hidden.  That being said, anything
needed to be shown/hidden based on screen size can be handled quite
easily with the utility classes, eg '.visible-desktop', etc:
http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/scaffolding.html#responsive

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Elle Stone]

Rather than wade through the twitter bootstrap code, I reworked the
original code to make *part* of it fluid, as a quick example of "how
to". Here's a temporary link to the revised, partially fluid code:
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/temp/gimp-site/gimp-redo-1.html

The original code is divided into header, body (not to be confused
with ), and footer sections. The body section is divided
into three subsections called "filters," "tools", and "downloads".
Each body subsection has an image, a header, and a short paragraph. In
the original code the images are background images, but I changed them
to regular images. I set the various max-width values to the values
indicated in the original code, and then at smaller screen sizes the
images and text scale proportionately.

You can resize the page and the images and text in (only) the body
section will resize to fit the available space, but of course the
fixed width header and footer spill over into a scrollbar. In Firefox
and Rekonq the fluid portion of the rewrite looks OK, but the layout
is broken in Chromium (the slideshow drops down over the body section,
haven't checked to see why; Kassim's original code doesn't have this
problem).

With a fluid layout, at anything smaller than a 600px wide screen a
media query should be triggered to start substituting different css
code so that the images are full screen and the text slides under the
images. Media query code works a charm, but I haven't put any in.
How-tos on the web are readily available and I can supply some example
code if it would help.

The apple-type icons are missing because I don't know where they came
from. Personally I find the icons a bit distracting, but probably a
lot of people like them.

Hope this example of "fluid rewrite" helps some!

Elle
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Bob Long]

Liam R E Quin wrote,


On Thu, 2013-04-18 at 20:51 -0400, Sam Gleske wrote:

On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Liam R E Quin  wrote:



Why not? "Hey, Julie, do you have the download link for gimp?" "Yeah,
it's... uh... I can't find it" "I wanted to run gimp on my iPad.."


That's my point.  GIMP doesn't run on anything but desktop
applications.  I don't see the need for a link to download files on a
mobile in our case; iPad included.


I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

GIMP does run on some mobile devices today; that number is likely to
increase. for example, Android, but you're right that it's not the main
focus of development.

In addition, someone using a mobile device might look for the download
link to give to someone else, or to save for later. Or I might want to
download GIMP when I'm in a coffee-shop to take back to my home where I
don't have good bandwidth.

Although it's common to make a mobile-specific Web site that's stripped
down, the main functionality should all be there.

Liam


Agreed. Maybe my home internet has failed and all I have for the time 
being is a mobile device and I still want to download.


--
Bob Long


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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Liam R E Quin]

On Thu, 2013-04-18 at 20:51 -0400, Sam Gleske wrote:
> On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Liam R E Quin  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Why not? "Hey, Julie, do you have the download link for gimp?" "Yeah,
> > it's... uh... I can't find it" "I wanted to run gimp on my iPad.."
> 
> That's my point.  GIMP doesn't run on anything but desktop
> applications.  I don't see the need for a link to download files on a
> mobile in our case; iPad included.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

GIMP does run on some mobile devices today; that number is likely to
increase. for example, Android, but you're right that it's not the main
focus of development.

In addition, someone using a mobile device might look for the download
link to give to someone else, or to save for later. Or I might want to
download GIMP when I'm in a coffee-shop to take back to my home where I
don't have good bandwidth.

Although it's common to make a mobile-specific Web site that's stripped
down, the main functionality should all be there.

Liam

-- 
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Steve Kinney]

On 04/18/2013 08:39 PM, Liam R E Quin wrote:

> On Thu, 2013-04-18 at 20:25 -0400, Sam Gleske wrote:
>> [...] I
>> don't think it's useful for the Download link to show up in the mobile
>> interface.
> 
> Why not? "Hey, Julie, do you have the download link for gimp?" "Yeah,
> it's... uh... I can't find it" "I wanted to run gimp on my iPad.."

+1

>> I really like Elle's comments on accessibility. 
> 
> +1

That too!

In re changing page layouts per display, i.e. screen (the default),
print, handheld (for mobile devices), etc, it can be done in
"regular old" HTML & CSS:

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/media.html

Support for the "screen" medium is always a given, support for
"print" is almost so, and support for "handheld" seems to be good
and improving.

What can CSS change in the way the same (x)html document is
displayed?  Oh, this and that:

http://www.csszengarden.com/

I don't have anything against Javascript, but I do believe it should
only be used when/as markup language won't do the job, for better
cross platform compatibility, lower client side overhead, support
for secure networking configurations, etc.

:o)

Steve


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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Liam R E Quin  wrote:

>
> Why not? "Hey, Julie, do you have the download link for gimp?" "Yeah,
> it's... uh... I can't find it" "I wanted to run gimp on my iPad.."

That's my point.  GIMP doesn't run on anything but desktop
applications.  I don't see the need for a link to download files on a
mobile in our case; iPad included.

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Liam R E Quin]

On Thu, 2013-04-18 at 20:25 -0400, Sam Gleske wrote:
> [...] I
> don't think it's useful for the Download link to show up in the mobile
> interface.

Why not? "Hey, Julie, do you have the download link for gimp?" "Yeah,
it's... uh... I can't find it" "I wanted to run gimp on my iPad.."

> I really like Elle's comments on accessibility. 

+1

-- 
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:

> Well here's what I managed to get done today:
> http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMPB/examples/carousel.html
>
> It's basically just a content swap. It still needs to be entirely
> restyled. Also, I found something out. If I change one of the classes, the
> body becomes fluid. The problem with that is the images (the browser icons
> on the page) and the text end up too far apart on the body.
>
> This is the exact reason why I chose to go for a static design. The mockup
> that Mike made doesn't exactly work with a fluid design unfortunately.
> Unless we come up with something different, I'm afraid we'll be stuck with
> a static design.
>
>
Also to pipe in my 2 cents.  I checked the site in a mobile browser.  I
understand it's completely new and totally alpha code.  That being said: I
don't think it's useful for the Download link to show up in the mobile
interface.  Something to think about.  I'm not sure how I'd handle that
(maybe with JavaScript but that's still not desirable).  UserAgents can
easily be parsed on the server side but it sounds like static flat files
generated is favored over server side execution for serving html.

I really like Elle's comments on accessibility.  Just some thoughts and
kicking around.

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Tom Williams]

On 04/18/2013 04:31 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
> Well here's what I managed to get done
> today: http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMPB/examples/carousel.html
>
> It's basically just a content swap. It still needs to be entirely
> restyled. Also, I found something out. If I change one of the classes,
> the body becomes fluid. The problem with that is the images (the
> browser icons on the page) and the text end up too far apart on the body.
>
> This is the exact reason why I chose to go for a static design. The
> mockup that Mike made doesn't exactly work with a fluid
> design unfortunately. Unless we come up with something different, I'm
> afraid we'll be stuck with a static design.
>
This should actually be fairly easy to deal with.  Either use the
"max-width" property to keep the content from getting spread out too
much and for browsers or user agents that display the page on a screen
that's not very wide, the content can scale down to fit that size.  The
benefits of a fluid layout are worth the relatively little effort to
make it work. 

You're making great progress!

Peace...

Tom

-- 
/When we dance, you have a way with me,
Stay with me... Sway with me.../
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Well here's what I managed to get done today:
http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMPB/examples/carousel.html

It's basically just a content swap. It still needs to be entirely restyled.
Also, I found something out. If I change one of the classes, the body
becomes fluid. The problem with that is the images (the browser icons on
the page) and the text end up too far apart on the body.

This is the exact reason why I chose to go for a static design. The mockup
that Mike made doesn't exactly work with a fluid design unfortunately.
Unless we come up with something different, I'm afraid we'll be stuck with
a static design.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:

> I haven't actually modified any code yet. I've really only looked at the
> examples and though about what it would look like when I do.
>
> The body is basically just changing the images that are used, the text,
> and the background. The footer is really just adding the links. The header
> on the other hand, may be a but trickier but it should be doable.
>
> I'll upload the files, change some of the code, and send you guys the link
> to it later today so you can take a look at it and help a little bit if
> need be.
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Apr 18, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Elle Stone  wrote:
>
> > Hmm, looks like twitter bootstrap is a grid framework with fixed and
> > fluid options. I've worked with fluid grid frameworks before (not
> > twitter bootstrap). If you like, send me your modified css/html (or
> > post a link for download) and I'll take a look at it to see if I can
> > figure out why it isn't fluid all the time. It's probably something
> > very simple but the relevant code might be buried in a non-obvious
> > location.
> >
> > On 4/18/13, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
> >> Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep all that in mind when
> getting
> >> back to the overall look of the site. Right now, I'm focusing on using
> >> Twitter Bootstrap to recreate the site with a more fluid layout. I found
> >> that the Carousel Example (
> >> http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html) slightly
> >> resembles the current design. I can easily redesign it to look like the
> >> current site but the only issue I'm having is that the body still seems
> to
> >> be fixed (aside from on mobile devices and tablets) which is what I'm
> >> trying to avoid. I've never worked with Twitter Bootstrap or anything
> >> similar before so I don't really know what I'm doing. Any suggestions on
> >> what I can do here?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Elle Stone 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Kasim,
> >>>
> >>> Designing/implementing a website is hard work and you are an amazing
> >>> person for being willing to take on the job. In response to your
> >>> request for feedback, already many have chimed in and given excellent
> >>> advice. I wanted to add "useability/accessibility" to the list of
> >>> things to consider, and then ask about the intended audience and goal.
> >>>
> >>> Accessibility guidelines and contrast:
> >>> The "gray on gray" text has a contrast ratio of 3:1, which doesn't
> >>> meet useability/contrast guidelines (WebAIM
> >>> (http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/).
> >>>
> >>> Some useful addons for checking accessibility issues:
> >>>
> >>>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/accessibility-evaluation-toolb/
> >>>
> >>>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/juicy-studio-accessibility-too/
> >>>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openajax-accessibility-exte/
> >>>
> >>> Unfortunately the color contrast tests provided by the above links
> >>> don't work on the mockup because for some reason all the tools assume
> >>> the background for the text is solid black, when really it's gray
> >>> (according to Firebug, the actual background is transparent; the text
> >>> is on top of a tiled textured gray background image - a pure css
> >>> background would weigh less and perhaps be less distracting for those
> >>> of us with less than perfect eyesight).
> >>>
> >>> I used Colorzilla to sample the gray text and background and got a
> >>> contrast ratio of 3:1 (according to WebAIM, #efefef for the
> >>> background, #88 for the text gives 3:1 contrast ratio). 3:1 is
> >>> minimum for large text, 4.5:1 is suggested; 4.5:1 is minimum for small
> >>> text, 7:1 suggested (18px is not large text, especially not when you
> >>> get older and your eyes start to not let in so much light and you need
> >>> to be farther from the screen to focus, etc).
> >>>
> >>> Font type and size:
> >>> The font stack specifies Open Sans, Arial, and Helvetica, none of
> >>> which are included in "out of the box" Linux distributions such as
> >>> Ubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE.  The css/html code pulls 6 variants of
> >>> the Open Sans font from
> >>> http://themes.googleusercontent.com/static/fonts/. A suitable cross-OS
> >>> font stack might be better than calls to an external website.
> >>>
> >>> The links at th

Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

I haven't actually modified any code yet. I've really only looked at the 
examples and though about what it would look like when I do.

The body is basically just changing the images that are used, the text, and the 
background. The footer is really just adding the links. The header on the other 
hand, may be a but trickier but it should be doable.

I'll upload the files, change some of the code, and send you guys the link to 
it later today so you can take a look at it and help a little bit if need be.

Sent from my iPod

On Apr 18, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Elle Stone  wrote:

> Hmm, looks like twitter bootstrap is a grid framework with fixed and
> fluid options. I've worked with fluid grid frameworks before (not
> twitter bootstrap). If you like, send me your modified css/html (or
> post a link for download) and I'll take a look at it to see if I can
> figure out why it isn't fluid all the time. It's probably something
> very simple but the relevant code might be buried in a non-obvious
> location.
> 
> On 4/18/13, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
>> Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep all that in mind when getting
>> back to the overall look of the site. Right now, I'm focusing on using
>> Twitter Bootstrap to recreate the site with a more fluid layout. I found
>> that the Carousel Example (
>> http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html) slightly
>> resembles the current design. I can easily redesign it to look like the
>> current site but the only issue I'm having is that the body still seems to
>> be fixed (aside from on mobile devices and tablets) which is what I'm
>> trying to avoid. I've never worked with Twitter Bootstrap or anything
>> similar before so I don't really know what I'm doing. Any suggestions on
>> what I can do here?
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Elle Stone  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Kasim,
>>> 
>>> Designing/implementing a website is hard work and you are an amazing
>>> person for being willing to take on the job. In response to your
>>> request for feedback, already many have chimed in and given excellent
>>> advice. I wanted to add "useability/accessibility" to the list of
>>> things to consider, and then ask about the intended audience and goal.
>>> 
>>> Accessibility guidelines and contrast:
>>> The "gray on gray" text has a contrast ratio of 3:1, which doesn't
>>> meet useability/contrast guidelines (WebAIM
>>> (http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/).
>>> 
>>> Some useful addons for checking accessibility issues:
>>> 
>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/accessibility-evaluation-toolb/
>>> 
>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/juicy-studio-accessibility-too/
>>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openajax-accessibility-exte/
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately the color contrast tests provided by the above links
>>> don't work on the mockup because for some reason all the tools assume
>>> the background for the text is solid black, when really it's gray
>>> (according to Firebug, the actual background is transparent; the text
>>> is on top of a tiled textured gray background image - a pure css
>>> background would weigh less and perhaps be less distracting for those
>>> of us with less than perfect eyesight).
>>> 
>>> I used Colorzilla to sample the gray text and background and got a
>>> contrast ratio of 3:1 (according to WebAIM, #efefef for the
>>> background, #88 for the text gives 3:1 contrast ratio). 3:1 is
>>> minimum for large text, 4.5:1 is suggested; 4.5:1 is minimum for small
>>> text, 7:1 suggested (18px is not large text, especially not when you
>>> get older and your eyes start to not let in so much light and you need
>>> to be farther from the screen to focus, etc).
>>> 
>>> Font type and size:
>>> The font stack specifies Open Sans, Arial, and Helvetica, none of
>>> which are included in "out of the box" Linux distributions such as
>>> Ubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE.  The css/html code pulls 6 variants of
>>> the Open Sans font from
>>> http://themes.googleusercontent.com/static/fonts/. A suitable cross-OS
>>> font stack might be better than calls to an external website.
>>> 
>>> The links at the bottom of the page use a 12px font, and Arial and
>>> Helvetica are "smaller" sans-serif fonts (at the same font size, the
>>> various fonts have radically different actual screen sizes, Verdana
>>> for example being much bigger than Arial). So the 12px text is doubly
>>> small.
>>> 
>>> The current Gimp website doesn't go any smaller than 13.333px. Current
>>> recommendations are pushing towards 16px for the base font:
>>> 
>>> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/10/07/16-pixels-body-copy-anything-less-costly-mistake/
>>> http://informationarchitects.net/blog/100e2r
>>> http://www.sitepoint.com/eight-definitive-font-stacks/
>>> 
>>> People who can't comfortably read the smaller font have the option to
>>> set a minimum font size with their browers. When I set a minimum size
>>> of 16px, the design breaks: "Download" is shove

Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Elle Stone]

Hmm, looks like twitter bootstrap is a grid framework with fixed and
fluid options. I've worked with fluid grid frameworks before (not
twitter bootstrap). If you like, send me your modified css/html (or
post a link for download) and I'll take a look at it to see if I can
figure out why it isn't fluid all the time. It's probably something
very simple but the relevant code might be buried in a non-obvious
location.

On 4/18/13, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
> Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep all that in mind when getting
> back to the overall look of the site. Right now, I'm focusing on using
> Twitter Bootstrap to recreate the site with a more fluid layout. I found
> that the Carousel Example (
> http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html) slightly
> resembles the current design. I can easily redesign it to look like the
> current site but the only issue I'm having is that the body still seems to
> be fixed (aside from on mobile devices and tablets) which is what I'm
> trying to avoid. I've never worked with Twitter Bootstrap or anything
> similar before so I don't really know what I'm doing. Any suggestions on
> what I can do here?
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Elle Stone  wrote:
>
>> Hi Kasim,
>>
>> Designing/implementing a website is hard work and you are an amazing
>> person for being willing to take on the job. In response to your
>> request for feedback, already many have chimed in and given excellent
>> advice. I wanted to add "useability/accessibility" to the list of
>> things to consider, and then ask about the intended audience and goal.
>>
>> Accessibility guidelines and contrast:
>> The "gray on gray" text has a contrast ratio of 3:1, which doesn't
>> meet useability/contrast guidelines (WebAIM
>> (http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/).
>>
>> Some useful addons for checking accessibility issues:
>>
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/accessibility-evaluation-toolb/
>>
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/juicy-studio-accessibility-too/
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openajax-accessibility-exte/
>>
>> Unfortunately the color contrast tests provided by the above links
>> don't work on the mockup because for some reason all the tools assume
>> the background for the text is solid black, when really it's gray
>> (according to Firebug, the actual background is transparent; the text
>> is on top of a tiled textured gray background image - a pure css
>> background would weigh less and perhaps be less distracting for those
>> of us with less than perfect eyesight).
>>
>> I used Colorzilla to sample the gray text and background and got a
>> contrast ratio of 3:1 (according to WebAIM, #efefef for the
>> background, #88 for the text gives 3:1 contrast ratio). 3:1 is
>> minimum for large text, 4.5:1 is suggested; 4.5:1 is minimum for small
>> text, 7:1 suggested (18px is not large text, especially not when you
>> get older and your eyes start to not let in so much light and you need
>> to be farther from the screen to focus, etc).
>>
>> Font type and size:
>> The font stack specifies Open Sans, Arial, and Helvetica, none of
>> which are included in "out of the box" Linux distributions such as
>> Ubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE.  The css/html code pulls 6 variants of
>> the Open Sans font from
>> http://themes.googleusercontent.com/static/fonts/. A suitable cross-OS
>> font stack might be better than calls to an external website.
>>
>> The links at the bottom of the page use a 12px font, and Arial and
>> Helvetica are "smaller" sans-serif fonts (at the same font size, the
>> various fonts have radically different actual screen sizes, Verdana
>> for example being much bigger than Arial). So the 12px text is doubly
>> small.
>>
>> The current Gimp website doesn't go any smaller than 13.333px. Current
>> recommendations are pushing towards 16px for the base font:
>>
>> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/10/07/16-pixels-body-copy-anything-less-costly-mistake/
>> http://informationarchitects.net/blog/100e2r
>> http://www.sitepoint.com/eight-definitive-font-stacks/
>>
>> People who can't comfortably read the smaller font have the option to
>> set a minimum font size with their browers. When I set a minimum size
>> of 16px, the design breaks: "Download" is shoved under "Gimp" at the
>> very top of the page. The "Linux" download link takes two lines
>> instead of one, so the box is twice as tall as the Windows/Mac boxes.
>>
>> The best way around this problem is to use a fluid layout, which I
>> think you are already working on because of mobile browsing (mobile
>> browsing already accounts for 20% of all web browsing and the numbers
>> are accelerating). If you aren't already, you might also consider
>> "responsive" web design:
>>
>> http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2011/01/12/guidelines-for-responsive-web-design/
>> http://mashable.com/2012/12/11/responsive-web-design/
>> http://alistapart.com/article/responsive-web-design
>>
>> Ti

Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
> Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep all that in mind when getting
> back to the overall look of the site. Right now, I'm focusing on using
> Twitter Bootstrap to recreate the site with a more fluid layout. I found
> that the Carousel Example
> (http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html) slightly
> resembles the current design. I can easily redesign it to look like the
> current site but the only issue I'm having is that the body still seems to
> be fixed (aside from on mobile devices and tablets) which is what I'm trying
> to avoid. I've never worked with Twitter Bootstrap or anything similar
> before so I don't really know what I'm doing. Any suggestions on what I can
> do here?

Not using carousels would be a good start :) They are usability killers.

Other than that, it's generally advised to use Bootstrap wisely and

Here's some initial info:

http://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tag/bootstrap/
http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2013/03/12/customizing-bootstrap/

And since Snashing Magazine is so awesome, here's some more useful info:

http://mobile.smashingmagazine.com/2012/10/24/beyond-common-media-query-breakpoints/


Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to keep all that in mind when getting
back to the overall look of the site. Right now, I'm focusing on using
Twitter Bootstrap to recreate the site with a more fluid layout. I found
that the Carousel Example (
http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/examples/carousel.html) slightly
resembles the current design. I can easily redesign it to look like the
current site but the only issue I'm having is that the body still seems to
be fixed (aside from on mobile devices and tablets) which is what I'm
trying to avoid. I've never worked with Twitter Bootstrap or anything
similar before so I don't really know what I'm doing. Any suggestions on
what I can do here?


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Elle Stone  wrote:

> Hi Kasim,
>
> Designing/implementing a website is hard work and you are an amazing
> person for being willing to take on the job. In response to your
> request for feedback, already many have chimed in and given excellent
> advice. I wanted to add "useability/accessibility" to the list of
> things to consider, and then ask about the intended audience and goal.
>
> Accessibility guidelines and contrast:
> The "gray on gray" text has a contrast ratio of 3:1, which doesn't
> meet useability/contrast guidelines (WebAIM
> (http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/).
>
> Some useful addons for checking accessibility issues:
>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/accessibility-evaluation-toolb/
>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/juicy-studio-accessibility-too/
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openajax-accessibility-exte/
>
> Unfortunately the color contrast tests provided by the above links
> don't work on the mockup because for some reason all the tools assume
> the background for the text is solid black, when really it's gray
> (according to Firebug, the actual background is transparent; the text
> is on top of a tiled textured gray background image - a pure css
> background would weigh less and perhaps be less distracting for those
> of us with less than perfect eyesight).
>
> I used Colorzilla to sample the gray text and background and got a
> contrast ratio of 3:1 (according to WebAIM, #efefef for the
> background, #88 for the text gives 3:1 contrast ratio). 3:1 is
> minimum for large text, 4.5:1 is suggested; 4.5:1 is minimum for small
> text, 7:1 suggested (18px is not large text, especially not when you
> get older and your eyes start to not let in so much light and you need
> to be farther from the screen to focus, etc).
>
> Font type and size:
> The font stack specifies Open Sans, Arial, and Helvetica, none of
> which are included in "out of the box" Linux distributions such as
> Ubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE.  The css/html code pulls 6 variants of
> the Open Sans font from
> http://themes.googleusercontent.com/static/fonts/. A suitable cross-OS
> font stack might be better than calls to an external website.
>
> The links at the bottom of the page use a 12px font, and Arial and
> Helvetica are "smaller" sans-serif fonts (at the same font size, the
> various fonts have radically different actual screen sizes, Verdana
> for example being much bigger than Arial). So the 12px text is doubly
> small.
>
> The current Gimp website doesn't go any smaller than 13.333px. Current
> recommendations are pushing towards 16px for the base font:
>
> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/10/07/16-pixels-body-copy-anything-less-costly-mistake/
> http://informationarchitects.net/blog/100e2r
> http://www.sitepoint.com/eight-definitive-font-stacks/
>
> People who can't comfortably read the smaller font have the option to
> set a minimum font size with their browers. When I set a minimum size
> of 16px, the design breaks: "Download" is shoved under "Gimp" at the
> very top of the page. The "Linux" download link takes two lines
> instead of one, so the box is twice as tall as the Windows/Mac boxes.
>
> The best way around this problem is to use a fluid layout, which I
> think you are already working on because of mobile browsing (mobile
> browsing already accounts for 20% of all web browsing and the numbers
> are accelerating). If you aren't already, you might also consider
> "responsive" web design:
>
> http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2011/01/12/guidelines-for-responsive-web-design/
> http://mashable.com/2012/12/11/responsive-web-design/
> http://alistapart.com/article/responsive-web-design
>
> Time to download and assemble the page on the screen:
> The redesign takes a noticeable amount of time to load on my computer.
> Before the page is fully loaded, for a brief moment the page looks
> disorganized, then the images and text rearrange themselves into their
> intended positions. I poked around a bit trying to locate what might
> contribute to the time it takes to get the page on the screen; here
> are some possibilities:
>
> There are several shadow effects in use. In general, the more shadows,
> the longer it takes to load and assemble

Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Elle Stone]

Hi Kasim,

Designing/implementing a website is hard work and you are an amazing
person for being willing to take on the job. In response to your
request for feedback, already many have chimed in and given excellent
advice. I wanted to add "useability/accessibility" to the list of
things to consider, and then ask about the intended audience and goal.

Accessibility guidelines and contrast:
The "gray on gray" text has a contrast ratio of 3:1, which doesn't
meet useability/contrast guidelines (WebAIM
(http://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/).

Some useful addons for checking accessibility issues:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/accessibility-evaluation-toolb/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/juicy-studio-accessibility-too/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openajax-accessibility-exte/

Unfortunately the color contrast tests provided by the above links
don't work on the mockup because for some reason all the tools assume
the background for the text is solid black, when really it's gray
(according to Firebug, the actual background is transparent; the text
is on top of a tiled textured gray background image - a pure css
background would weigh less and perhaps be less distracting for those
of us with less than perfect eyesight).

I used Colorzilla to sample the gray text and background and got a
contrast ratio of 3:1 (according to WebAIM, #efefef for the
background, #88 for the text gives 3:1 contrast ratio). 3:1 is
minimum for large text, 4.5:1 is suggested; 4.5:1 is minimum for small
text, 7:1 suggested (18px is not large text, especially not when you
get older and your eyes start to not let in so much light and you need
to be farther from the screen to focus, etc).

Font type and size:
The font stack specifies Open Sans, Arial, and Helvetica, none of
which are included in "out of the box" Linux distributions such as
Ubuntu, Debian, and openSUSE.  The css/html code pulls 6 variants of
the Open Sans font from
http://themes.googleusercontent.com/static/fonts/. A suitable cross-OS
font stack might be better than calls to an external website.

The links at the bottom of the page use a 12px font, and Arial and
Helvetica are "smaller" sans-serif fonts (at the same font size, the
various fonts have radically different actual screen sizes, Verdana
for example being much bigger than Arial). So the 12px text is doubly
small.

The current Gimp website doesn't go any smaller than 13.333px. Current
recommendations are pushing towards 16px for the base font:
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/10/07/16-pixels-body-copy-anything-less-costly-mistake/
http://informationarchitects.net/blog/100e2r
http://www.sitepoint.com/eight-definitive-font-stacks/

People who can't comfortably read the smaller font have the option to
set a minimum font size with their browers. When I set a minimum size
of 16px, the design breaks: "Download" is shoved under "Gimp" at the
very top of the page. The "Linux" download link takes two lines
instead of one, so the box is twice as tall as the Windows/Mac boxes.

The best way around this problem is to use a fluid layout, which I
think you are already working on because of mobile browsing (mobile
browsing already accounts for 20% of all web browsing and the numbers
are accelerating). If you aren't already, you might also consider
"responsive" web design:
http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2011/01/12/guidelines-for-responsive-web-design/
http://mashable.com/2012/12/11/responsive-web-design/
http://alistapart.com/article/responsive-web-design

Time to download and assemble the page on the screen:
The redesign takes a noticeable amount of time to load on my computer.
Before the page is fully loaded, for a brief moment the page looks
disorganized, then the images and text rearrange themselves into their
intended positions. I poked around a bit trying to locate what might
contribute to the time it takes to get the page on the screen; here
are some possibilities:

There are several shadow effects in use. In general, the more shadows,
the longer it takes to load and assemble the web page. Personally I
find the white shadow under the text to be distracting: the shadow is
almost too small to see and on my low-end laptop screen the white
shadow appears/gets smaller/disappears as I change my angle of view.

Probably you haven't resized the images for "production", but at 450kb
for the header image, plus approx. 225kb each for the slideshow
images, the images are much larger than they need to be, and there is
a noticeable lag in image display when returning to/refreshing the
page.

The slideshow has continously changing images, which personally I find
a bit distracting. I'd prefer the option to start the slideshow
voluntarily rather than have it download "whether or no" and then
constantly going in the background.

There are two javascript files (the jquery.js file is a whopping 90
kb), but many people avoid javascript as partly annoying and partly a
security risk.

Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

>
> If possible, I'd like to see a system that only uses whatever language to
> generate the site if there is an actual change. Anything important that is
> served to the user should be static, i.e. the site should continue working
> except for changes when we just plainly remove PHP/Python/Perl/Ruby/Go from
> the server or have to disable any dynamic features temporarily (0-day,
> anyone? ;) temporarily.


I'm sorry but I don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking
about. Anyway, I plan on making everything but the blog hard coded with
HMTL. For the blog, I'd like to use Chyrp simply because it's lightweight
and incredibly easy to use. We shouldn't need all the extra features
that WordPress has to offer considering it's really only text and links in
the blog posts. It comes with a great looking default theme but I'd like to
change it to make it match with the current homepage. If you want, you can
check out Chyrp here: http://chyrp.net/

Now back to the homepage. Aside from making it fluid and adding the
"widgets" at the bottom of the body, is this the final product? Are there
any more things I should add?


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Michael Schumacher  wrote:

> On 13.04.2013 00:00, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
>
>> That's a pretty cool idea.  Considering the space allotted for it I
>> think only 1 article would be enough.  If I see that one article has
>> changed I would go to the news feed to read more news :).
>>
>>
>> Well we'll see when we actually implement it. I'll most likely have to
>> use PHP for that which I have next to no knowledge about so it'll have
>> to wait until we can get someone to help me out there.
>>
>
> If possible, I'd like to see a system that only uses whatever language to
> generate the site if there is an actual change. Anything important that is
> served to the user should be static, i.e. the site should continue working
> except for changes when we just plainly remove PHP/Python/Perl/Ruby/Go from
> the server or have to disable any dynamic features temporarily (0-day,
> anyone? ;) temporarily.
>
> The current system is template files that are checked into Git and are run
> through make and python to create the static html files which get served.
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
> __**_
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Mike Finch]

Hey guys/Kasim, 

First off, this is really great work.  It's awesome seeing this come to life.

The original design I did (http://d.pr/i/LYn8) was intended to work within a 
responsive, flexible grid- specifically, Twitter Bootstrap 
(http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/).  Regardless of the content being for a 
desktop application, there's no reason to discount the use case of someone 
learning about GIMP while on the bus, and visiting the site on their phone.  
The awesome thing about Bootstrap is that the "mobile version" comes in the 
framework for free without the need for any extra dev work.

Regarding the background, I totally agree that a blurred, less distracting 
version would be more effective.  Very good call.

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the hard work!  :)  Feel free to 
hit me directly if you have any questions/concerns. 


Mike Finch // 
1sixty.com (http://1sixty.com)

Twitter // @160south






On Friday, April 12, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Kasim Ahmic  (mailto:kasim.ah...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > To be completely honest, I purposefully avoided mobile support. Considering
> > that GIMP is a desktop exclusive program, I figured that adding mobile
> > support would be a waste of time. If there is enough demand for it, however,
> > I'll attempt to add it.
> > 
> 
> 
> I would at least have a look at adding something like bootstrap.
> Adding a few classes to your divs and you'd be 99% done. Most
> elements would then scale to fit tablets/mobile, etc.
> 
> Use case A: I'm out at the bar and talking about design work. My
> companion mentions how all the software you need is expensive. I
> point out GIMP can handle quite a bit, esp when it comes to web and
> photos. My companion asks "can it do X"? I look it up on the site.
> Site looks bad == project looks bad.
> 
> Use case B: Loss of internet connection, no local help installed, but
> access to web via a mobile data plan. Easy to access the docs on the
> phone.
> 
> I doubt these cases are common, really - but using something like
> bootstrap or unsemantic doesn't take long and handles them nicely.
> 
> Just my opinion really - I see it as a relatively small amount of
> effort even if the gains are small.
> 
> Chris 

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Michael Schumacher]

On 13.04.2013 00:00, Kasim Ahmic wrote:

That's a pretty cool idea.  Considering the space allotted for it I
think only 1 article would be enough.  If I see that one article has
changed I would go to the news feed to read more news :).


Well we'll see when we actually implement it. I'll most likely have to
use PHP for that which I have next to no knowledge about so it'll have
to wait until we can get someone to help me out there.


If possible, I'd like to see a system that only uses whatever language 
to generate the site if there is an actual change. Anything important 
that is served to the user should be static, i.e. the site should 
continue working except for changes when we just plainly remove 
PHP/Python/Perl/Ruby/Go from the server or have to disable any dynamic 
features temporarily (0-day, anyone? ;) temporarily.


The current system is template files that are checked into Git and are 
run through make and python to create the static html files which get 
served.


Regards,
Michael
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Alright, so first off, I've made the CSS almost fully valid. It turns out
that using the IE gradient filter was causing all the problems. Anyway, the
only error that's coming up now is because I'm using the
*::selection*selector to change the background of text when it's
highlighted. Not to big
of a deal so I think I'll just leave it at that.


First off, this is really great work.  It's awesome seeing this come to
> life.


 Thanks!


The original design I did (http://d.pr/i/LYn8) was intended to work within
> a responsive, flexible grid- specifically, Twitter Bootstrap (
> http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/).  Regardless of the content being
> for a desktop application, there's no reason to discount the use case of
> someone learning about GIMP while on the bus, and visiting the site on
> their phone.  The awesome thing about Bootstrap is that the "mobile
> version" comes in the framework for free without the need for any extra dev
> work.


I see. Alright, I'll leave this version up for now and make changes to it
as suggestions come it but I'll work on a separate one using Twitter
Bootstrap.


Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the hard work!  :)  Feel free
> to hit me directly if you have any questions/concerns.


 No problem! I love doing this sort of thing! And thanks, I'll keep that in
mind :)


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Mike Finch  wrote:

> Hey guys/Kasim,
>
> First off, this is really great work.  It's awesome seeing this come to
> life.
>
> The original design I did (http://d.pr/i/LYn8) was intended to work
> within a responsive, flexible grid- specifically, Twitter Bootstrap (
> http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/).  Regardless of the content being
> for a desktop application, there's no reason to discount the use case of
> someone learning about GIMP while on the bus, and visiting the site on
> their phone.  The awesome thing about Bootstrap is that the "mobile
> version" comes in the framework for free without the need for any extra dev
> work.
>
> Regarding the background, I totally agree that a blurred, less distracting
> version would be more effective.  Very good call.
>
> Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the hard work!  :)  Feel free
> to hit me directly if you have any questions/concerns.
>
>
> *
> Mike Finch //
> **
> 1sixty.com
> *
> *
> Twitter // @160south
> *
>
> On Friday, April 12, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Chris Mohler wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Kasim Ahmic 
> wrote:
>
> To be completely honest, I purposefully avoided mobile support. Considering
> that GIMP is a desktop exclusive program, I figured that adding mobile
> support would be a waste of time. If there is enough demand for it,
> however,
> I'll attempt to add it.
>
>
> I would at least have a look at adding something like bootstrap.
> Adding a few classes to your divs and you'd be 99% done. Most
> elements would then scale to fit tablets/mobile, etc.
>
> Use case A: I'm out at the bar and talking about design work. My
> companion mentions how all the software you need is expensive. I
> point out GIMP can handle quite a bit, esp when it comes to web and
> photos. My companion asks "can it do X"? I look it up on the site.
> Site looks bad == project looks bad.
>
> Use case B: Loss of internet connection, no local help installed, but
> access to web via a mobile data plan. Easy to access the docs on the
> phone.
>
> I doubt these cases are common, really - but using something like
> bootstrap or unsemantic doesn't take long and handles them nicely.
>
> Just my opinion really - I see it as a relatively small amount of
> effort even if the gains are small.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Liam R E Quin]

On Fri, 2013-04-12 at 18:02 -0400, Kasim Ahmic wrote:

> As for the CSS, I'm attempting to get it to pass W3C specs but
> it's proving difficult for whatever reason. I'll keep trying though.

If validator.nu or the W3C validator is complaining about prefixed
properties, check with caniuse.com maybe, but the validators don't in
general like prefixed properties - ignore those warnings & move on with
life.

It *is* worth checking in the browser console (e.g. control-shift-k in
firefox or chromiumuouioiouiouiuum) for CSS errors or warnings and
understanding them.

If it's more than that, let me know if I can help.

Liam

-- 
Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

I already went ahead and fixed it :P

As for the CSS, I'm attempting to get it to pass W3C specs but
it's proving difficult for whatever reason. I'll keep trying though.


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:
>
>> One other thing I'd like to add.  Your html doesn't pass the W3C
>> Validation Service.  I think we should follow the HTML5 standard.  Here's a
>> quick URL for your convenience.
>>
>>
>> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkasimahmic.koding.com%2Fworks%2FGIMP%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
>>
>>
> I went ahead and changed your code so that it validates.  I've provided
> both a revised validated file and a diff to show the changes.  See the
> attached files index_validated.html and index_validated.diff.
>
> I also recommend you validating your CSS if you can (sometimes that's not
> always possible).
>
> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
>
> SAM
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Chris Mohler]

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
>  To be completely honest, I purposefully avoided mobile support. Considering
> that GIMP is a desktop exclusive program, I figured that adding mobile
> support would be a waste of time. If there is enough demand for it, however,
> I'll attempt to add it.

I would at least have a look at adding something like bootstrap.
Adding a few classes to your divs and you'd be 99% done.  Most
elements would then scale to fit tablets/mobile, etc.

Use case A: I'm out at the bar and talking about design work.  My
companion mentions how all the software you need is expensive.  I
point out GIMP can handle quite a bit, esp when it comes to web and
photos.  My companion asks "can it do X"?  I look it up on the site.
Site looks bad == project looks bad.

Use case B: Loss of internet connection, no local help installed, but
access to web via a mobile data plan. Easy to access the docs on the
phone.

I doubt these cases are common, really - but using something like
bootstrap or unsemantic doesn't take long and handles them nicely.

Just my opinion really - I see it as a relatively small amount of
effort even if the gains are small.

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

>
> That's a pretty cool idea.  Considering the space allotted for it I think
> only 1 article would be enough.  If I see that one article has changed I
> would go to the news feed to read more news :).
>

Well we'll see when we actually implement it. I'll most likely have to use
PHP for that which I have next to no knowledge about so it'll have to wait
until we can get someone to help me out there.



> One other thing I'd like to add.  Your html doesn't pass the W3C
> Validation Service.  I think we should follow the HTML5 standard.  Here's a
> quick URL for your convenience.


 Thanks for pointing that out! It's all fixed now.


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
>
>> How about if I add a "Recent News" section between the body and footer?
>> Sort of a small feed that shows the 3-5 latest articles. I'll probably also
>> add a twitter feed (should the GIMP devs want to tweet their progress) and
>> a latest books feed or something along those lines. I've updated the demo
>> with this but for now it's just to show where the feeds would go. No
>> styling has actually been added yet.
>>
>>
> That's a pretty cool idea.  Considering the space allotted for it I think
> only 1 article would be enough.  If I see that one article has changed I
> would go to the news feed to read more news :).
>
>
> Oh and I'm not sure if you guys are thanking me for making the site or for
>> designing it. If it's for the latter, then please know that I had no part
>> in it's designing. That was all Mike Finch.
>>
>
> Ah I forgot Mike Finch was the designer; nice shout out.  I give props to
> both of you.  Nice design and good conversion from template -> html.
>
> One other thing I'd like to add.  Your html doesn't pass the W3C
> Validation Service.  I think we should follow the HTML5 standard.  Here's a
> quick URL for your convenience.
>
>
> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkasimahmic.koding.com%2Fworks%2FGIMP%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
>
> SAM
>
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> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
>
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:

> One other thing I'd like to add.  Your html doesn't pass the W3C
> Validation Service.  I think we should follow the HTML5 standard.  Here's a
> quick URL for your convenience.
>
>
> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkasimahmic.koding.com%2Fworks%2FGIMP%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
>
>
I went ahead and changed your code so that it validates.  I've provided
both a revised validated file and a diff to show the changes.  See the
attached files index_validated.html and index_validated.diff.

I also recommend you validating your CSS if you can (sometimes that's not
always possible).

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:

> How about if I add a "Recent News" section between the body and footer?
> Sort of a small feed that shows the 3-5 latest articles. I'll probably also
> add a twitter feed (should the GIMP devs want to tweet their progress) and
> a latest books feed or something along those lines. I've updated the demo
> with this but for now it's just to show where the feeds would go. No
> styling has actually been added yet.
>
>
That's a pretty cool idea.  Considering the space allotted for it I think
only 1 article would be enough.  If I see that one article has changed I
would go to the news feed to read more news :).


Oh and I'm not sure if you guys are thanking me for making the site or for
> designing it. If it's for the latter, then please know that I had no part
> in it's designing. That was all Mike Finch.
>

Ah I forgot Mike Finch was the designer; nice shout out.  I give props to
both of you.  Nice design and good conversion from template -> html.

One other thing I'd like to add.  Your html doesn't pass the W3C Validation
Service.  I think we should follow the HTML5 standard.  Here's a quick URL
for your convenience.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkasimahmic.koding.com%2Fworks%2FGIMP%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Let me just start off by saying thank you for all the feedback!

One thing is missing: mobile-friendly layouts.  The current site is
> not fantastic at mobile size, but it's more usuable than your demo.
> Apologies if you were already planning to take care of this.
> As for HTML5, I've seen my fill of browser-specific issues with HTML
> 4.0 and XHTML.  Avoid the stuff that's still in churn (eg, canvas tag
> the last time I checked), and HTML5 is fine IMO, and a lot more fun to
> work with.


 To be completely honest, I purposefully avoided mobile support.
Considering that GIMP is a desktop exclusive program, I figured that adding
mobile support would be a waste of time. If there is enough demand for it,
however, I'll attempt to add it.


I think the background image of the text "GIMP - The freely distributed
> image editor..." distracts from its content. Perhaps heavily blurring it
> might help - if it doesn't, use something else more background-like (the
> same image is in the animation on the right anyway).


 I entirely agree with the fact that it distracts the user. That's why I
asked for suggestions on its replacement. I'll try blurring the background
to see how that works out.


I don't think it's that big of an issue.  We live in an age of high
> resolution monitors.  Higher resolution images would be good to take
> advantage of that.  Personally I like the current site design (on gimp.org);
> primarily because I enjoy reading the GIMP news as soon as I get to the
> site (which I avidly check even though it's not updated very often).  For
> me it just means more clicks to get to news.  I guess I'll just depend on
> my RSS feed as it's not that big of a deal.


How about if I add a "Recent News" section between the body and footer?
Sort of a small feed that shows the 3-5 latest articles. I'll probably also
add a twitter feed (should the GIMP devs want to tweet their progress) and
a latest books feed or something along those lines. I've updated the demo
with this but for now it's just to show where the feeds would go. No
styling has actually been added yet.


To add on to my previous statements I'd like the front page to be edited a
> bit more.  I'll quote the previous text and then follow that with what I
> would like to see it say.   Note:
> > *Professional Level Photo Filters
> *> Make your photos picture perfect with with prefessional-grade color
> filtering.
> >
> > *Play with the Tools of the Trade
> *> GIMP comes ready with everything you need to design like a pro.
> - Suggested Changes
> *Professional Photo Filters
> *Make your photos picture perfect with professional-grade color filtering.
> *Draft with the Tools of the Trade
> *GIMP has a robust set of tools and can be easily extended through
> add-ons.


Thanks for this! I've replaced the text on the page with your suggestion.


The answer to this is liquid, responsive designs using CSS media
> queries. This approach works in all modern browsers and is compatible
> with older browsers (and with Web crawlers).


I've already tried this. hoping to make it super fluid and look amazing on
all screen sizes. But with the way that Mike aligned everything, it makes
it extremely difficult to make sure everything stays in place and even more
so when I'm designing everything on a 1024x768 monitor. I stuck with a
static design because it's easier to manage and I know it'll look the same
on every display aside from those smaller than 1024x768. I'll try to make
it fluid again sometime in the future.

Oh and I'm not sure if you guys are thanking me for making the site or for
designing it. If it's for the latter, then please know that I had no part
in it's designing. That was all Mike Finch.
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Liam R E Quin]

On Fri, 2013-04-12 at 11:22 -0700, Tom Williams wrote:
> On 04/12/2013 10:41 AM, Sam Gleske wrote:
>   We live in an age of high
> > resolution monitors.  Higher resolution images would be good to take
> > advantage of that. 
> 
> High resolution monitors might be frequently installed but many people
> won't use them at high resolutions. 

The answer to this is liquid, responsive designs using CSS media
queries. This approach works in all modern browsers and is compatible
with older browsers (and with Web crawlers).

Liam



-- 
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Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Tom Williams]

On 04/12/2013 10:41 AM, Sam Gleske wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Kevin Cozens  > wrote:
>
> On 13-04-11 06:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
>
> Over at the Web List I've posted this redesign that I made
> from Mike Finch's mockup.
>
> http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMP/
>
> [snip]
>
> So tell me what you guys think of it so far!
>
>
> It looks good but you could tighten up the design. It uses a lot
> of space for little information, but that may be in part that it
> is a sample of the appearance of the front page without the final
> content.
>
>
> I don't think it's that big of an issue.  We live in an age of high
> resolution monitors.  Higher resolution images would be good to take
> advantage of that. 

High resolution monitors might be frequently installed but many people
won't use them at high resolutions.   My point is assumptions should be
avoided as much as possible.   With that being stated, I agree that I
don't think the use of space is that big of an issue.

Peace...

Tom

-- 
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sam Gleske  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Kevin Cozens  wrote:
>
>> It looks good but you could tighten up the design. It uses a lot of space
>> for little information, but that may be in part that it is a sample of the
>> appearance of the front page without the final content.
>
>
> I don't think it's that big of an issue.  We live in an age of high
> resolution monitors.  Higher resolution images would be good to take
> advantage of that.  Personally I like the current site design (on gimp.org);
> primarily because I enjoy reading the GIMP news as soon as I get to the
> site (which I avidly check even though it's not updated very often).  For
> me it just means more clicks to get to news.  I guess I'll just depend on
> my RSS feed as it's not that big of a deal.
>
> However I like how Kasim emphasizes features on the front page which
> beckons users to try it out.  The only thing I would like to see changed is
> the text, "Play with the Tools of the Trade."  I don't like that because it
> implies that there is no need to take GIMP seriously as a professional
> editing tool or that it's a free trial to "play" with before using the real
> thing.  I'm tired of hearing people say GIMP isn't as good as Photoshop.
> They just haven't used GIMP enough.  You need to unlearn Photoshop to
> really take advantage of GIMP.  I think GIMP is already ready for the prime
> time just industry doesn't take the time to learn a new tool.  I would like
> to suggest you changing that text to, "Draft with the Tools of the Trade."
> This let's users know that it's there for the taking yet allows
> professionals to take it seriously as a tool to get work done.
>
> If we're really going forward with this redesign thanks for considering
> any of my thoughts.
>

To add on to my previous statements I'd like the front page to be edited a
bit more.  I'll quote the previous text and then follow that with what I
would like to see it say.   Note:

> *Professional Level Photo Filters*
> Make your photos picture perfect with with prefessional-grade color
filtering.
>
> *Play with the Tools of the Trade*
> GIMP comes ready with everything you need to design like a pro.

- Suggested Changes

*Professional Photo Filters*
Make your photos picture perfect with professional-grade color filtering.

*Draft with the Tools of the Trade*
GIMP has a robust set of tools and can be easily extended through add-ons.

- Notes

On the second sentence of the first line I correct your misspelling of
"prefessional."

Avoid the word 'comes' as it implies humans traveling (to come and go).
Again emphasize that GIMP brings a lot to the table.  Having a robust set
of tools is good for both users and professionals a-like.  Easily extending
functionality through add-ons caters to real power users of the tool.

I try to think of the psychology behind the advertising since the first
page is something everybody sees I think this redesign will ultimately make
GIMP more popular.  Especially with high bit depth editing coming to the
table in future versions (which I look forward to!).

Thanks for taking the time Kasim to put a lot of thought into your design
and asking for feedback.

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Sam Gleske]

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Kevin Cozens  wrote:

> On 13-04-11 06:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
>
>> Over at the Web List I've posted this redesign that I made from Mike
>> Finch's mockup.
>>
>> http://kasimahmic.koding.com/**works/GIMP/
>>
> [snip]
>
>  So tell me what you guys think of it so far!
>>
>
> It looks good but you could tighten up the design. It uses a lot of space
> for little information, but that may be in part that it is a sample of the
> appearance of the front page without the final content.


I don't think it's that big of an issue.  We live in an age of high
resolution monitors.  Higher resolution images would be good to take
advantage of that.  Personally I like the current site design (on gimp.org);
primarily because I enjoy reading the GIMP news as soon as I get to the
site (which I avidly check even though it's not updated very often).  For
me it just means more clicks to get to news.  I guess I'll just depend on
my RSS feed as it's not that big of a deal.

However I like how Kasim emphasizes features on the front page which
beckons users to try it out.  The only thing I would like to see changed is
the text, "Play with the Tools of the Trade."  I don't like that because it
implies that there is no need to take GIMP seriously as a professional
editing tool or that it's a free trial to "play" with before using the real
thing.  I'm tired of hearing people say GIMP isn't as good as Photoshop.
They just haven't used GIMP enough.  You need to unlearn Photoshop to
really take advantage of GIMP.  I think GIMP is already ready for the prime
time just industry doesn't take the time to learn a new tool.  I would like
to suggest you changing that text to, "Draft with the Tools of the Trade."
This let's users know that it's there for the taking yet allows
professionals to take it seriously as a tool to get work done.

If we're really going forward with this redesign thanks for considering any
of my thoughts.

SAM
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kevin Cozens]

On 13-04-11 06:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:

Over at the Web List I've posted this redesign that I made from Mike Finch's 
mockup.

http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMP/

[snip]

So tell me what you guys think of it so far!


It looks good but you could tighten up the design. It uses a lot of space 
for little information, but that may be in part that it is a sample of the 
appearance of the front page without the final content.


The large text below the top nav bar uses a lot of space for so little text. 
The laptop cover on the right with the changing pictures seems a waste of 
space unless you have planned for something else to appear on there. The 
orange clickable buttons seems rather large.


It is nice to see someone looking at the website and thinking of ways to 
improve it.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Chris Mohler]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 5:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
> So tell me what you guys think of it so far! Any and all positive as well as
> negative feedback is welcome and much appreciated. It'll really help me make
> this into something that everyone can enjoy!

I'm not a huge fan of the black background.  Overall, I do like the
design though.

One thing is missing: mobile-friendly layouts.  The current site is
not fantastic at mobile size, but it's more usuable than your demo.
Apologies if you were already planning to take care of this.

As for HTML5, I've seen my fill of browser-specific issues with HTML
4.0 and XHTML.  Avoid the stuff that's still in churn (eg, canvas tag
the last time I checked), and HTML5 is fine IMO, and a lot more fun to
work with.

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Steve Kinney]

On 04/11/2013 06:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:

> Over at the Web List I've posted this redesign that I made from Mike
> Finch's mockup.
> 
> http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMP/
> 
> It seemed to get very high praise and acceptance from the users in
> the list. Overall, I think the homepage is done and I just wanted to
> ask more users about their opinion on it as well as figure out what
> I have to do next in terms of getting the redesign on the official
> GIMP site (assuming the developers like it as well).

It's really hard to make an overall value judgment on a thing like
this.  I certainly see nothing to object to and some things I like,
but I also see a couple of things that I would suggest tweaking...

At the upper left where it says "The Freely Distributed [etc]" I
think I would have said "The Free Software [etc]", and I don't know
what to suggest changing but I think the text could be at higher
contrast with the background.

I note the doctype is "html" a.k.a. "quirks mode".  Today some call
that "html 5".  I would specify xhtml 1.0 transitional, as per the
existing GIMP site, for the production version.  For my take on the
state of html 5, see the bottom of this page:

http://pilobilus.net/web_design_resources.html

> A few things to note:
> 
>  - Currently, it is only the homepage 
>  - We MIGHT be redesigning the entire GIMP website. No idea as of yet.
>  - The slideshow images will be changed soon.
>  - The background of the header might change as well.
>  - We will not use the current text that we have on the body (ex.
> Professional Level Filters). This was discussed on the Web List.
> 
> So tell me what you guys think of it so far! Any and all positive as
> well as negative feedback is welcome and much appreciated. It'll
> really help me make this into something that everyone can enjoy!

On the whole, at first viewing, I like it!

:o)

Steve




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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Tom Williams]

On 04/11/2013 03:33 AM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
> Over at the Web List I've posted this redesign that I made from Mike
> Finch's mockup.
>
> http://kasimahmic.koding.com/works/GIMP/
>
>

I like it!  Great job!

Peace...

Tom

-- 
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Stay with me... Sway with me.../
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[tomdf]

Yes, an inactive team isn't making decisions.However, you said that "there already was a discussion on the need for the new design".So I asked, out of curiosity, when did that discussion take place?I also asked, as a result of that discussion, was a decision reached?Now you're saying a design contest will probably take place.At least Kasim now has an idea of what's going on and can submit his designwhen the contest happens.Thanks!Nov 6, 2011 10:24:39 PM, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:48 AM,  tomdf wrote:> I replied to the address from which it was sent, the gimp-user list.> I don't subscribe to the gimp-web list.> But I'm glad you replied and let us know that the team is mostly inactive.> Given their inactivity, I'm curious when the discussion for a new design> took place> and if any decision was made one way or another.An inactive team cannot make decisions :)We will probably do a design contest some time during 2.10 dev cycle.Alexandre Prokoudinehttp://libregraphicsworld.org___gimp-user-list mailing listgimp-user-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:48 AM,  tomdf wrote:
> I replied to the address from which it was sent, the gimp-user list.
> I don't subscribe to the gimp-web list.
> But I'm glad you replied and let us know that the team is mostly inactive.
> Given their inactivity, I'm curious when the discussion for a new design
> took place
> and if any decision was made one way or another.

An inactive team cannot make decisions :)

We will probably do a design contest some time during 2.10 dev cycle.

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[tomdf]

I replied to the address from which it was sent, the gimp-user list.I don't subscribe to the gimp-web list.But I'm glad you replied and let us know that the team is mostly inactive.Given their inactivity, I'm curious when the discussion for a new design took placeand if any decision was made one way or another.Nov 6, 2011 08:22:59 PM, alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote:On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:08 AM,  tomdf wrote:> No offense, but did you ask the GIMP web team?As someone who contributes to the website I can assure you that theteam is mostly inactive. There already was a discussion on the needfor the new design, and his mail was sent to gimp-web mailing list(which is why Im curious why you replied to gimp-user@ :))Alexandre Prokoudinehttp://libregraphicsworld.org___gimp-user-list mailing listgimp-user-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Well if there's anyone I can speak to about the design, please tell me. And 
yeah, I posted this first in the gimp-web-list but it wasn't getting any 
replies so I posted it to gimp-user-list as well to hear other people's 
opinions. 

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 6, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine 
 wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:08 AM,  tomdf wrote:
>> No offense, but did you ask the GIMP web team?
> 
> As someone who contributes to the website I can assure you that the
> team is mostly inactive. There already was a discussion on the need
> for the new design, and his mail was sent to gimp-web mailing list
> (which is why Im curious why you replied to gimp-user@ :))
> 
> Alexandre Prokoudine
> http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Alexandre Prokoudine]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:08 AM,  tomdf wrote:
> No offense, but did you ask the GIMP web team?

As someone who contributes to the website I can assure you that the
team is mostly inactive. There already was a discussion on the need
for the new design, and his mail was sent to gimp-web mailing list
(which is why Im curious why you replied to gimp-user@ :))

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[tomdf]

No offense, but did you ask the GIMP web team?GIMP Web Team

Jakub Steiner (2.4 release redesign)Raphaël Quinet (maintainer)Michael Schumacher (maintainer)Sven NeumannRóman JoostKarine DelvareSimon BudigAkkana PeckCarol SpearsManish SinghGuillermo S. RomeroJakub FriedlDave NearyNiklas MattissonHelvetix Victorinox (build tools)Henrik Brix AndersenVille Pätsi (2.0 release redesign)Shawn T. AmundsonMat CaughronBranko CollinMartijn WeisbeekRebecca J. WalterNathan C. SummersChristian HenneckeNov 6, 2011 02:42:31 PM, kasim.ah...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks but I'm gonna go with a different approach. In working on a new, more professional, design. I'll post it in a few days.Sent from my iPodOn Nov 6, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Chris Mohler  wrote:> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:23 PM, MM  wrote:>> I like it>> Well done..> > Says the individual with red and green HTML text in their email ;)> > /ducks> > Chris> ___> gimp-user-list mailing list> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list___gimp-user-list mailing listgimp-user-list@gnome.orghttp://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Thanks but I'm gonna go with a different approach. In working on a new, more 
professional, design. I'll post it in a few days.

Sent from my iPod

On Nov 6, 2011, at 1:46 PM, Chris Mohler  wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:23 PM, MM  wrote:
>> I like it
>> Well done..
> 
> Says the individual with red and green HTML text in their email ;)
> 
> /ducks
> 
> Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Chris Mohler]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 8:23 PM, MM  wrote:
> I like it
> Well done..

Says the individual with red and green HTML text in their email ;)

/ducks

Chris
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[MM]

I like it
Well done..
 
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From: "to...@verizon.net" 
To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign


Looks like a template from some CMS.


Oct 29, 2011 12:57:48 PM, phorg...@yahoo.com wrote:

On 10/28/2011 01:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote: 
>Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how much I 
>dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a redesign. 
>>
>>
>>I have the home page ready here: http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
Looks dated, and uses tables for layout.  Something a little more professional 
might make a better impression for GIMP.  People who care about graphics care 
about layout elegance as well.
>
>Patrick
>
>
>>
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[tomdf]

Looks like a template from some CMS.Oct 29, 2011 12:57:48 PM, phorg...@yahoo.com wrote:
  

  
  
On 10/28/2011 01:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and
have recently saw how much I dislike the GIMP website. So I've
recently been working on a redesign.
  


  I
  have the home page ready here: http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/

Looks dated, and uses tables for layout.  Something a little more
professional might make a better impression for GIMP.  People who
care about graphics care about layout elegance as well.

Patrick

  

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Patrick Horgan]

On 10/28/2011 06:35 PM, Frank Gore wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Josh Simons  wrote:
>> Just one user's opinion, but I like the proposed design. While it may be 
>> "glossier", the important difference for me is that the content is easier to 
>> read.
> All that's needed for that is dark text on a light background.
And a slightly larger font size would be nice.  The css for the page
fixes it at 10px in the body element.  If you just take that out
everything is more readable.  It's also nicer since readers get their
default, so people with impaired vision (or old eyes), can just bump up
the font size.

Also the max-width, at 60 ems is the default for a few years ago.  It's
too wide for some phones, but even tablets now are 1280 pixels wide, so
you could use the available width better.  Most things are wider than
they are high so it's handy to use the space.

#maincontainer { max-width: 80em; }
#main { max-width: 80em; }
#title { max-width: 80em; } 
#linkbar, #navbar { max-width: 80em; }
div#bottommenu { max-width: 80em; }

Of course you could set max width in body and let everything else
inherit it.   Of course it is not a normally inheritable attribute, and
only newer browsers let you say max-width: inherit, but you can always
say max-width: 100% and it will be the same size as the containing
block.  That way you'd only have to specify it once and if you wanted to
change it, or adapt with a media query, it would be simpler.

body { max-width: 80em;  margin: auto;}  // margin auto is to get it
centered again after setting max-width
#main, #title, #linkbar, #navbar, #bottommenu { max-width: 100%; }

Of course, since they're all block elements they'll take the parent
block size anyway, so you could just take the max-width off of #main,
#title, #linkbar, #navbar, #bottommenu completely.  Wouldn't THAT be
more elegant.

body { max-width: 80em;  margin: auto;}

Frustratingly enough, I'm subscribed to this list and the web list with
different emails so I can't CC: it there.

Patrick

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Steve Kinney]

  
  
On 10/29/2011 01:57 PM, Patrick Horgan wrote:
 On
  10/28/2011 01:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
  Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and
  have recently saw how much I dislike the GIMP website. So I've
  recently been working on a redesign.
 
  
I
have the home page ready here: http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
  
  Looks dated, and uses tables for layout.  Something a little more
  professional might make a better impression for GIMP.  People who
  care about graphics care about layout elegance as well.


Looks decent to me.  I would use a CSS layout and declare a doctype
(preferably xhtml 1.0 strict) for many reasons, but after all it's
only a preliminary mockup.  The decorative landscape clip art is OK
but something more specific to GIMP and/or image editing would be
better.  

I am always cautious about being too innovative - "looks dated" can
also mean, the navigation and layout presents the user with no
puzzles to solve.  That said, there's still lots of room to do
visual stuff if/as inspiration strikes.

If people want a new site design, I am sure that there are plenty of
web designers hanging around who would come out of the woodwork to
present proposals if asked.  The "losers" in the competition would
get a cool site design for their portfolio, the "winner(s)" would
get a high page rank link back to the site of their choice.

:o)

Steve


  

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Patrick Horgan]

  
  
On 10/28/2011 01:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and
have recently saw how much I dislike the GIMP website. So I've
recently been working on a redesign.
  


  I
  have the home page ready here: http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/

Looks dated, and uses tables for layout.  Something a little more
professional might make a better impression for GIMP.  People who
care about graphics care about layout elegance as well.

Patrick

  

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[houghi]

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:37:35PM +0100, Stefano Rovetta wrote:
> Please, however, don't make it like those "insider-only" sites
> where you only find the latest news but you don't know what these
> news are about...
> 
> The first line should tell you something like:
> "GIMP is the best photo and image editing software, and it's open source."
> 
> After that, anything can be discussed, but I strongly disagree
> in burying the single most important information (what the site
> is about) within the "About..." or "FAQ" sections.

If you look now at gimp.org it says on the top
 GiMP  GNU Image Manipulation Program.

Then an image and then:

GIMP is the GNU Image Manipulation Program. It is a freely distributed
piece of software for such tasks as photo retouching, image composition
and image authoring. It works on many operating systems, in many
languages. (more...) 

This is the official GIMP web site. It contains information about
downloading, installing, using, and enhancing it. This site also serves as
a distribution point for the latest releases. We try to provide as much
information about the GIMP community and related projects as possible.
Hopefully you will find what you need here. Grab a properly chilled
beverage and enjoy.

http://www.gimp.org/about/ concerning what GIMP is.

>From what I see on the site, I see that is is basicaly news items and as
such directed to the repeat visitor and people who have knowledge of GIMP
already

That said, I personally dislike 'news' on websites. That is what
mailinglists, newsgroups and rss are much better able to handle. No need
to look at a site to see if something changed, but that is a whole other
discussion.

I also understand that the people from GIMP do not share my feelings about
this. Otherwise they would have already done it. It is their site, so they
can do with it as they please. ;-)

houghi
-- 
This is written under the inluence of the following:
>   Artist : After Forever
> Song : Eccentric
>Album : Invisible Circles
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Stefano Rovetta]

--- Sab 29/10/11, houghi  ha scritto:
> Once people have seen your site, a huge introduction and
> logo is not
> needed. If you need an explanation on what a site is about,
> you are doing
> it wrong. Use an 'About' button if you must.

Please, however, don't make it like those "insider-only" sites
where you only find the latest news but you don't know what these
news are about...

The first line should tell you something like:
"GIMP is the best photo and image editing software, and it's open source."

After that, anything can be discussed, but I strongly disagree
in burying the single most important information (what the site
is about) within the "About..." or "FAQ" sections.

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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[houghi]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 11:58:54PM -0400, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
> As for the header images, in all honesty those images were just picked at 
> complete random. I'll try to design different ones soon but first I need to 
> get into contact with the web masters.

First a note to my previous post. It seemed that the site did not load
completely and the background on the text was not correctly loaded. The
text is now better to read.

That said: if you picked images for a site about image software at random,
it means to me you have not realy thought it out. At best this is a rough
idea that perhaps should have been made in some imaging software as just a
layout.

That is what is done most of the times:
1) An image (a mockup) of how a site or any interface could/should look
like
2) Producing the code to make it look like that

I heard there is some great software out there to create images. ;-)

I will also say it again: drop the images. They do not add anything. They
just remove space. Also I see download and downloads. Documentation and
release notes. Get involved and Gimp Develiopment. To me all the same.
That would mean that only the donation and the plug-in registry need to be
on the left side.

Donation could be anywhere. Plug-in registry could be next to "Get
Involved"

A direction to go might be e.g. http://houghi.org/Fun/gimp-mockup.xcf
Understand that this is not yet worked out. e.g. no explanation if there
should be drop downs in the menu or not. Made for one width and should
clearly be seen as a draft of a direction that MIGHT be possible.

As others have already pointed out, it is best to ask the people who
maintain it now what they need and want. Perhaps they do not want to
change the site for the next 3 years because of whatever reason. Perhaps
they already have a new design waiting to go live tomorow.

houghi
-- 
Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[houghi]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 09:35:18PM -0400, Frank Gore wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Josh Simons  wrote:
> >
> > Just one user's opinion, but I like the proposed design. While it may be 
> > "glossier", the important difference for me is that the content is easier 
> > to read.
> 
> All that's needed for that is dark text on a light background.
> 
> I've got nothing against "gloss", I just don't think the proposed
> design is an improvement (with the exception of the dark text on light
> background, that's always easier on the eyes)

The stripes on the background make it harder. The two images are unrelated
and only take away space. The scrolling of text with e.g. News feels
dated.
If something new, I would go for something realy new. e.g. news.cnet.com
has in the top two banners in 1/5th of the space everything you want to
get around on the site.

Once people have seen your site, a huge introduction and logo is not
needed. If you need an explanation on what a site is about, you are doing
it wrong. Use an 'About' button if you must.

houghi
-- 
Remind me to write an article on the compulsive reading of news. The
theme will be that most neuroses can be traced to the unhealthy habit
of wallowing in the troubles of five billion strangers. -- Heinlein
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Kasim Ahmic]

Thanks for the feedback! I worked on this for quite some time but I understand 
that not everything I make will be accepted.

Mark, you said to work with the gimp-web folks to incorporate some of my ideas 
into the site. Who exactly would I talk to for that?

And if someone can give me a somewhat full/in depth review on my design. It'll 
help me make some changes so that more people will agree with it.

As for the header images, in all honesty those images were just picked at 
complete random. I'll try to design different ones soon but first I need to get 
into contact with the web masters.

On Oct 28, 2011, at 11:06 PM, dh  wrote:

> On Friday, October 28, 2011, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
>> Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how
>> much I dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a
>> redesign.
>> 
>> I have the home page ready here:
>> http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
> 
> I kind of like your design, adds a bit of movement and variety.
> I am totally not fond of the "gimp" text/logo at the top left though, it has 
> no relationship to the traditional gimp font style. Is it a halloween thing?
> 
> Additionally, 2 landscape images (trees and valley) seem to be over 
> emphasizing gimp as only a photo manipulation tool.
> 
> Anyway, listen to the community, see if you can work with them, if not, go 
> ahead and try to build the site as your own, Can never have too many gimp 
> sites (well maybe)
> 
> see ya
> dh
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[dh]

On Friday, October 28, 2011, Kasim Ahmic wrote:
> Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how
> much I dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a
> redesign.
> 
> I have the home page ready here:
> http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/

I kind of like your design, adds a bit of movement and variety.
I am totally not fond of the "gimp" text/logo at the top left though, it has 
no relationship to the traditional gimp font style. Is it a halloween thing?

Additionally, 2 landscape images (trees and valley) seem to be over 
emphasizing gimp as only a photo manipulation tool.

Anyway, listen to the community, see if you can work with them, if not, go 
ahead and try to build the site as your own, Can never have too many gimp 
sites (well maybe)

see ya
dh
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Frank Gore]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Josh Simons  wrote:
>
> Just one user's opinion, but I like the proposed design. While it may be 
> "glossier", the important difference for me is that the content is easier to 
> read.

All that's needed for that is dark text on a light background.

I've got nothing against "gloss", I just don't think the proposed
design is an improvement (with the exception of the dark text on light
background, that's always easier on the eyes)

--
Frank Gore
www.ProjectPontiac.com
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Josh Simons]

On Oct 28, 2011, at 9:16 PM, Frank Gore wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
>> Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how much
>> I dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a redesign.
>> I have the home page ready here:
>> http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
>> I know this is probably the wrong place to put this but I don't think I'll
>> be getting too many responses on the
>> gimp-web mailing list :/ Anyway, I debugged everything and it now works in
>> all major browsers.
> 
> I could sugar-coat it a whole lot, but I'll be blunt: it's not an
> improvement. This is probably why you're not getting much feedback on
> the gimp-web mailing list
> 
> While I agree that the gimp.org web site isn't terribly glossy, it
> suits its own purpose just fine right now. And the developers are
> accustomed to the CMS they're currently using, which is a whole lot
> more important in the long run.
> 

Just one user's opinion, but I like the proposed design. While it may be 
"glossier", the important difference for me is that the content is easier to 
read.

Josh Simons



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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Mark Phillips]

Kasim,

I applaud your desire to help and the time you have devoted to a new web
site. However, I agree with Frank that it was not a giant leap forward.

May I suggest that you talk to the user community, including gimp-web, to
find out (1) if they share your thoughts that the site needs help and (2)
develop a list of what needs to be fixed. Then work with the gimp-web folks
to incorporate the changes the community has asked for into the appropriate
technology for the gimp web site.

Mark

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Frank Gore  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic 
> wrote:
> > Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how
> much
> > I dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a redesign.
> > I have the home page ready here:
> > http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
> > I know this is probably the wrong place to put this but I don't think
> I'll
> > be getting too many responses on the
> > gimp-web mailing list :/ Anyway, I debugged everything and it now works
> in
> > all major browsers.
>
> I could sugar-coat it a whole lot, but I'll be blunt: it's not an
> improvement. This is probably why you're not getting much feedback on
> the gimp-web mailing list
>
> While I agree that the gimp.org web site isn't terribly glossy, it
> suits its own purpose just fine right now. And the developers are
> accustomed to the CMS they're currently using, which is a whole lot
> more important in the long run.
>
> --
> Frank Gore
> www.ProjectPontiac.com
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Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Site Redesign

[Frank Gore]

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Kasim Ahmic  wrote:
> Hello! I've been using GIMP for some time now and have recently saw how much
> I dislike the GIMP website. So I've recently been working on a redesign.
> I have the home page ready here:
> http://seasonoftreason.uphero.com/templates/
> I know this is probably the wrong place to put this but I don't think I'll
> be getting too many responses on the
> gimp-web mailing list :/ Anyway, I debugged everything and it now works in
> all major browsers.

I could sugar-coat it a whole lot, but I'll be blunt: it's not an
improvement. This is probably why you're not getting much feedback on
the gimp-web mailing list

While I agree that the gimp.org web site isn't terribly glossy, it
suits its own purpose just fine right now. And the developers are
accustomed to the CMS they're currently using, which is a whole lot
more important in the long run.

--
Frank Gore
www.ProjectPontiac.com
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