Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Matthew Miller
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 09:47:10PM +0800, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: I don't use the word flippantly, but it seems odd to me how many users seem to feel devs owe them something (explanations, time, respect). Where's that entitlement come from? In open source, developers and users should be on the same

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread maderios
On 02/20/2013 01:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 09:47:10PM +0800, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: I don't use the word flippantly, but it seems odd to me how many users seem to feel devs owe them something (explanations, time, respect). Where's that entitlement come from? In open

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote: Someone a while ago had the suggestion of building sidecar files with the entire undo history of an image. As storage space continues to increase, that sounds like a very promising path providing best of all worlds. Part

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Simon Budig
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote: It seems better to say We did it this way for reasons x, y, and z, but we recognize that what you're asking isn't like the broken spacebar comic. You have options a and b now, and we're thinking about some even better approaches in the future. What

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Matthew Miller
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 02:43:12PM +0100, Simon Budig wrote: What would you say to We did it this way for reasons x, y, and z, but we recognize that what you're asking isn't like the broken spacebar comic. You have options a and b now, and we're thinking about some even better

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Matthew Miller
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 09:47:46PM +0800, Øyvind Kolås wrote: When such changes have landed in a stable release; there has been a quite long period of feedback from the users that follow development more closely than the users that only use stable versions of GIMP. So, that's me, for example.

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote: This is also the reason that core GIMP contributors consider this discussion to already be done and dealt with before it flared up and trolls are keeping it artificially alive. The self selected beta testers that are

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-20 Thread jfrazierjr
Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 02:43:12PM +0100, Simon Budig wrote: What would you say to We did it this way for reasons x, y, and z, but we recognize that what you're asking isn't like the broken spacebar comic. You have options a and b

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-19 Thread Matthew Miller
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:54:41AM +0100, Daniel Hornung wrote: I can't believe this was not brought up by someone already... https://xkcd.com/1172/ So, okay: should the response to that person be: - You should get longer fingers or: - Okay, so you won't be able to do that anymore, but

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-19 Thread Oon-Ee Ng
On Feb 19, 2013 7:31 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:54:41AM +0100, Daniel Hornung wrote: I can't believe this was not brought up by someone already... https://xkcd.com/1172/ So, okay: should the response to that person be: - You should get longer

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-19 Thread jfrazierjr
Kevin Brubeck Unhammer unham...@fsfe.org wrote: Burlen Loring blor...@lbl.gov writes: I'm sure the author(s) feels that it's the best thing since sliced bread, however, differentiating between save and export in newer gimp is a ridiculous waste of time. it's so annoying and in

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Daniel Hauck wrote: I have certain doubts that you understand the point of free (as in speech) software. The reason for my doubts is because you keep talking about the character of the giver. The giver/taker dichotomy is, frankly, artificial. GIMP isn't a

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Kevin Brubeck Unhammer
Burlen Loring blor...@lbl.gov writes: I'm sure the author(s) feels that it's the best thing since sliced bread, however, differentiating between save and export in newer gimp is a ridiculous waste of time. it's so annoying and in efficient that I feel the need to chime in against it and

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread R Kimber
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:37:25 +0100 Kevin Brubeck Unhammer wrote: 2) use this plugin which implements the old way within GIMP: http://www.shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ 3) use the GIMP fork GIMB which reverts the change completely: https://github.com/mardy/gimb ... but if so don't

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Psiweapon
Heh, I've mostly adapted to the new ways - PRAISE BE TO OUR SAVIOR THE EXPORT COMMAND! I AM NO LONGER A HEATHEN BROTHERS! but it's still *very fun *to see this Smug Developers Vs. The Stupid Backlash that Wouldn't Die movie franchise unfold in countless installments. My main problem with the

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Psiweapon wrote: My main problem with the export faith is that now, one does not simply overwrite into a PNG image after enabling transparency. Could you please elaborate on that? Ideally, in a bug report to bugzilla.gnome.org. May the glorious Sikking emanate

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread maderios
On 02/18/2013 02:09 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jeffery Small j...@cjsa.com wrote: When a major UI change like this is contemplated, why would it not be implemented as a configuration switch which can be turned on/off on the Preferences menu? In this particular case,

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:35 PM, maderios wrote: I use everyday save-export-clean.py plugin. Its' different from gimp-2.6 and other image editors like Krita, Digikam Showfoto, etc.. behavior. It becomes complicated because you get 5 options : - save - save as - export - save/export clean

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread maderios
On 02/18/2013 09:37 AM, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer wrote: Burlen Loring blor...@lbl.gov writes: I'm sure the author(s) feels that it's the best thing since sliced bread, however, differentiating between save and export in newer gimp is a ridiculous waste of time. it's so annoying and in efficient

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Cristian Secară
În data de Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:45:55 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine a scris: Assign Ctrl+S to the save/export clean (python plugin), [...] End of problem. It is not end of problem: the python plugin is not translated, so it does not offer a unitary experience for non-english users :p Cristi --

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Cristian Secară wrote: În data de Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:45:55 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine a scris: Assign Ctrl+S to the save/export clean (python plugin), [...] End of problem. It is not end of problem: the python plugin is not translated, so it does not

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread maderios
On 02/18/2013 03:45 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:35 PM, maderios wrote: I use everyday save-export-clean.py plugin. Its' different from gimp-2.6 and other image editors like Krita, Digikam Showfoto, etc.. behavior. It becomes complicated because you get 5 options :

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:13 PM, maderios wrote: Assign Ctrl+S to the save/export clean (python plugin), and you have a single option. End of problem. Done since a long time And so the problem is...? Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Michael Schumacher
Von: maderios mader...@gmail.com 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. Have a look at http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign While I wouldn't say that the team are no developers, they probably aren't by your definition. Your problem is that this team

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread maderios
On 02/18/2013 04:45 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: maderios mader...@gmail.com 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. Have a look at http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign While I wouldn't say that the team are no developers, they probably aren't

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Olivier
2013/2/18 maderios mader...@gmail.com: On 02/18/2013 04:45 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: maderios mader...@gmail.com 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. Have a look at http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign While I wouldn't say that the

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Michael Schumacher
Von: maderios mader...@gmail.com On 02/18/2013 04:45 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: maderios mader...@gmail.com 3) These developers have created gimp according to their own practice. Have a look at http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign While I wouldn't say that the

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Sorry, madeiros, but when you write maderios wrote: When you edit many kinds of files, jpeg, png, xcf, tiff, gif, etc..., you can't spend your time to watch and remember which kind of file you're working on. I'm not buying in. Knowing what the final result will be used for is a critical

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Christen Anderson
It would be interesting to know how many list messages by Maderios are on this old, worn-out topic. Please, everyone, complaining is getting you nowhere and is annoying the rest of us who actually have more productive things to do. Surely there's a way to block certain email addresses from

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Christen Anderson wrote: It would be interesting to know how many list messages by Maderios are on this old, worn-out topic. The first post I have from Maderios happens to be on this topic in August, 2012. Since then, he has made 91 posts, which on a cursory review, most, if not all, seem to

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread bruno
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:26:37 -0700, Christen Anderson wrote: It would be interesting to know how many list messages by Maderios are on this old, worn-out topic. Please, everyone, complaining is getting you nowhere and is annoying the rest of us who actually have more productive things to

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Patrick Shanahan
* Noel Stoutenburg mjol...@ticnet.com [02-18-13 14:03]: Christen Anderson wrote: It would be interesting to know how many list messages by Maderios are on this old, worn-out topic. The first post I have from Maderios happens to be on this topic in August, 2012. Since then, he has made 91

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Daniel Hornung
I can't believe this was not brought up by someone already... https://xkcd.com/1172/ (Or my mail search function is broken, which is possible) -- Mein öffentlicher Schlüssel / My public key: 4096R/600ACB3B 2012-04-01 Fingerabdruck / Fingerprint: 9902 575B B9A0 C339 CFDF 250B 9267 CA6B 600A

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Daniel Hornung wrote: I can't believe this was not brought up by someone already... https://xkcd.com/1172/ (Or my mail search function is broken, which is possible) It is broken. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-18 Thread Psiweapon
lmao On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Daniel Hornung wrote: I can't believe this was not brought up by someone already... https://xkcd.com/1172/ (Or my mail search function is broken, which

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Burlen Loring wrote: In the nearly 10 years of using the gimp I can't think of a single time where this would be useful. I've never had a problem differentiating between xcf and other formats. That use case is covered quite nicely by save a copy. But it

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Kasim Ahmic
I hate to be that guy but this will most likely never change. I don't want to say I hate that feature but it did cause quite the inconvenience for me when it first came out. Over time, I got used to it and now, it's second nature for me to click Export instead of Save when I need to export an

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Jeffery Small
Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com writes: On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Burlen Loring wrote: In the nearly 10 years of using the gimp I can't think of a single time where this would be useful. I've never had a problem differentiating between xcf and other formats. That

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Jeffery Small wrote: In the nearly 10 years of using the gimp I can't think of a single time where this would be useful. I've never had a problem differentiating between xcf and other formats. That use case is covered quite nicely by save a copy. But it isn't

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Daniel Hauck
On 02/17/2013 07:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:16 AM, Jeffery Small wrote: In the nearly 10 years of using the gimp I can't think of a single time where this would be useful. I've never had a problem differentiating between xcf and other formats. That use case is

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Oon-Ee Ng
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jeffery Small j...@cjsa.com wrote: When a major UI change like this is contemplated, why would it not be implemented as a configuration switch which can be turned on/off on the Preferences menu? In this particular case, a simple switch could reverse the Save

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Daniel Hauck
On 02/17/2013 08:09 PM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Jeffery Small j...@cjsa.com wrote: When a major UI change like this is contemplated, why would it not be implemented as a configuration switch which can be turned on/off on the Preferences menu? In this particular case,

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Daniel Hauck wrote: For now, there is no alternative to GiMP. Krita is a very nice alternative for a number of use cases. But if one were to appear, can you imagine what factors might come into play when people decide what to use? GiMP doesn't exist

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Steve Kinney
On 02/17/2013 09:27 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Eventually all currently existing software will become obsolete, and GIMP is no exception. I have to question that. Free Software is a very valuable community toolbox. A project as large and complex as the GIMP represents tens of thousands

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Daniel Hauck
On 02/17/2013 09:27 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Daniel Hauck wrote: For now, there is no alternative to GiMP. Krita is a very nice alternative for a number of use cases. But if one were to appear, can you imagine what factors might come into play when

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Simon Budig
Daniel Hauck (dan...@yacg.com) wrote: Owe? Therein lies a kind of perspective concern. It's not a question of what is owed, but is what is wanted. The response to something which is wanted is what matters here. Wanted by whom? We had lots of users here expressing their desire in a tone

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Richard Gitschlag
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 03:55:04 +0100 From: si...@budig.de To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save Daniel Hauck (dan...@yacg.com) wrote: Owe? Therein lies a kind of perspective concern. It's not a question of what is owed, but is what is wanted

Re: [Gimp-user] export vs save

2013-02-17 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: In the nearly 10 years of using the gimp I can't think of a single time where this would be useful. I've never had a problem differentiating between xcf and other formats. That use case is covered quite nicely by save a copy. But