There is a reference I've been trying to track down. This is one of those
"I heard it somewhere" stories. I asked a couple of groups on facebook
with no results, but maybe it will be familiar to someone here. It was
possibly from a novel, but I don't know if it's from the era or 20thC
historical
You're welcome!
I suppose people could say what they are working on.
Right now I'm working on switching things to a new e-mail address. :-)
So, the url below doesn't do anything. I suppose I could try the sub and
unsub options. Does anyone have the info for that?
I tried "help" but the message
Charlene, shoelaces sewn in the center front? What!? From the pictures, I
can't see any laces in front. Good gosh, I wish I could see these
instructions! LOL!
I wonder if shoelace is suggested because the diagonal braid will be a bit
more flexible than ribbon? But yes, elastic. :-)
One tip
I guess it would be better to ask some guys who are the age of the
character. I could just imagine an older guy describing it as a skimpy
top.
-Carol
I doubt he'd be up on the latest fashion jargon unless he was into that.
He'd probably say blouse, top...maybe tank. But I can't imagine he'd
Hi Natalie,
I don't have the Tudor Tailor, so I don't know if the drafts are taken
from extant garments (at their original size) like Patterns of Fashion, or
if they are drafted to a more modern size, a la Jean Hunnisett.
If you are hand-drawing the pattern onto gridded paper, it's easiest to
Funny thing is, if someone wants to give a quick impression or change
identities fast, they put on a hat. When talking to someone, the things
you look at most are at eye-level: face, hat, hair, collar.
So it's odd when someone will take care with other parts of an outfit and
neglect the head,
There was a short fad for knickers in the mid to late 1970s for women.
Gauchos were another one, loose pants that ended below the knee - sort of
like a split skirt.
For both, you might wear them with a blouse and matching vest.
Culottes were a skirt/shorts combo, just above the knee. They might
The stuff I got some years ago was also dyeable. The dots came out a tad
lighter, but the base fabric was great. It's slowly coming back to me -- I
used it for the soles of a Spiderman suit.
-Carol
http://www.joann.com/jiffy-grip-11-x24-white/prd10283/?_requestid=7021852
Jiffy Grip is what
I think the pattern I used (many years ago) called for terrycloth soles.
Which sounds kind of slippery. I remember the store-bought jammies having
sort of a dotted swiss, only it was rubber dots on a sturdy fabric.
Ultimately I used a firm cotton for the whole thing, with the same fabric
for the
I'm sure embroidery machines can do satin stitch, but
can they do chain stitch?
I think your best bet there is to get an antique machine that sews with a
chain stitch. I actually had a toy machine at one point that was a chain
stitch, but it would lose alignment easily.
Chain stitch, or
I may have missed this detail: what time period is it for?
I just realized you said boned bodice, and looks like you're saying no
stays or corset? The fabric just might not be up to a snug fit. One
purpose of a corset or stays is to do the work of compressing -- even if
there is not much of that
Hi all,
I found this, which seems like sensible advice:
When sharing links, it is proper netiquette to write one to three
sentences about why you are sharing it. This gives your friends a heads
up on whether they should read the article or not.
This will help keep people from wasting their
I wish I could find that article -- I think it was written by Irene Castle
and it made the rounds of the Vintage Dance crowd back in the 1980s.
Anyway, the good news about the Amish cotton stockings is that they're
easy to dye. What I'm trying to remember is if the article advised
matching the
What about a strip of fabric, either on-grain or bias, with the raw edges
turned under? Press it so you have something like the commercial folded
bias tape, and go from there.
-Carol
It's my first hat, and I'm disappointed in some of the edge binding, so
I'm looking for alternate materials,
There were so many options by that time. Lots of machine-made stockings.
Remember that seams on nylons were around through the 1950s. Shaped,
seamed stockings would be nicer than machine-knit in the round.
There is something written about that time about how to dress with taste,
and I think it
Thanks all for your help! I've forwarded the notes to my friend, who
greatly appreciates the advice.
Someone suggested The Great Pattern Review, but apparently you need to
know the pattern first to find the comments. Any plans for a search option
on it?
-Carol
Hello,
A friend just asked me, can anyone recommend a pattern for an American
Civil War era frock coat?
Thank you!
-Carol
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Hi Cathy,
Come join us on 18cLife!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cLife/
Also if you are near Yorktown, you're also close to Williamsburg. Burnley
Trowbridge:
http://www.burnleyandtrowbridge.com/
offer wonderful workshops. If there's not a useful one coming up soon,
they may be able to
Do you suppose her underwear also is color co-odinated?
They did say the outfit includes pantalettes.
Completely different, eh? Not to the casual observer!
Maybe one has 3-1/2 wide ruffles, and one has 3-1/4 ruffles, etc.
Not much leeway with that list of specifications! I could see some
Be sure you have the right kind of hook. If you look closely, some of them
have the very end of the hook curving in slightly, reducing the chance it
will catch.
I have seen extant work done on a fine silk ground, and I have to wonder
if they were doing chain stitch with a needle rather than a
Fantasy, that's the word I was looking for! Steampunk, Fairie Festivals
and goth fashion all use corsets. You might as well include all of them in
your marketing a pattern sale is still a sale, whether it's made up in
sepia browns, forest green with leaf and flower petal trims, or black
satin.
Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a
huge bag of salt if you think he did actual research for the period in
question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's
creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts.
-Carol
I'm not SCA,
Probably Town House.
I'm here, not at the war! I've been scanning my historic sticking slides
into electronic format.
-Carol
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Sharon Collier
sha...@collierfam.comwrote:
What's a TH?
Trailer Home?
___
Stickers are a great idea! But the red pen (a nice thick Sharpie) is
a good backup to mark the H on the spot. :-)
-Carol
I plan on bringing little stickers that have h-costume on them, dear
roommate. Sadly, it's too late to order the ribbons that have that, but I
will try to
Yesterday I received a copy of Textiles in America 1650-1870 (published
2007) Florence Montgomery. Did I miss a h-costume discussion of this
volume? It is also fantastic! The resource information seems to be so
complete.
Kathleen
Textiles in America was originally published a few years
Im planning a necklace, as an accessory to a 15th c Italian gown, and
would like to know if, and how, to make one that is a continuous strand.
The clerk at the bead shop didnt know how. All she wanted to do was sell
me inappropriate findings. I'm sure there's a way, I just dont know what
to
Kate Pinner wrote:
I realize it's now passe, but I'm doing a production of Angels in
America that takes place in 1985-86.
That's too early for yellow. In the mid/late 80's the power tie was red,
either a solid red or the striped one, occasionally a tiny print. I went
to work in the bank
The newest computer machines will even measure the button for
you, and make the hole the correct size. They memorize the size, and sew
all the holes the same.
Actually I remember something from wy back, maybe in the 70s, a
style where you would place your button in the attachment
In my experience, dyeing over with a similar but deeper color is usually
very successful. Your new color is likely to entirely cover the old
color and not conflict with it. Therefore, just pick the shade of red
you want off the manufacturer's dye chart.
Every once in a while, though, you
I wonder what were the 16thC attitudes regarding pregnancy? The
Victorians were all for hiding it away, and earlier attitudes are
sometimes filtered through this. Also I've heard plenty of modern
pregnant women complain of looking and feeling fat. But was that the
case for 16thC women?
That black gown is cool looking - too bad they mucked it up with the
back lacing! A stomacher front like that means the fit is adjustable
where the stomacher is pinned to the gown, thus no need to have it
lace like that.
Anyway, sorry to be Devil's advocate; I know some people claim a
Chris wrote:
Which makes me curious. What actual medical issues have people encountered
that really _do_ mean someone can't wear a corset? I'm sure it does happen
-- and it seems to me that having some idea of what really are the issues
that cause problems might help dressmakers decide
Personally, I though you had a pants fitting issue...
Oh those language funnies! :-)
Back to crochet yes, the simple chains and such were around in the
18th century. Some of the cords on military drums are chained rope.
The reason for the no crochet pronouncement is that
Penny wrote: These are the only original prints. They only see the light
of day, when I show them to my college students. One day I will find a
scanner with a large enough bed to scan them.
You should check with the media department of the college. They might have
a portable scanner that
Look for Marcellus Laroon's Street Cries prints. There is a book by
Sean Shesgreen that has them, _The Criers and Hawkers of London:
Engravings and Drawings_. They are more 1690 - 1710.
Good clothing, as well as baskets, etc.
-Carol
I was wondering if anyone here could point
Ah - the third crown is behind the back of the standing guy.
Yes, held by a woman (?) who is also holding a sword.
My guess is that the Magi are the three bearded men with halos. The
one with the blue headwrap seems to be wearing a high-waisted gown
and seems to have breasts. No
I belong to some period-specific lists, and I plan to stay on this
one as well.
Although it covers time periods and places that I'm not doing,
h-Costume keeps me in touch with a larger group of people who are
like-minded. Research, finding fabrics, challenges in fit and
construction
Bambi TBNL wrote:
she DOES say in the instructions to cut a sloper and fit it..
This has always been a pet peeve of mine (nothing personal, Bambi). If I
wanted to cut a sloper and fit it, I wouldn't have bought a pattern. Why
put size markings on a pattern at all, if we're supposed to cut
The best bet may be to layer stockings. You usually wear upper-class
clothing, so you would want your outer stocking to look good. Is it
an outdoor event or just cold indoors?
The other thing to look out for with thick stockings is that they may
not fit correctly with your shoes and
I read about the tradition to wear etwas Altes, etwas Neues, etwas
Geliehenes, etwas Blaues
Und ein lucky Deutschmark in her Schue? (Sorry, reaching back to
high school German!)
Hm, at the costume museum in Bath, I remember seeing pre-1900 bridal
dresses which weren't white, and many
B: We're going to practice the tango at arm's length
Finace: Why?
B: No reason...
So did anyone see the Today Show this morning - a couple started
their wedding dance conventionally and then switched to Baby Got
Back. I hear their video is on YouTube. No interference with the
dress...
Andy said,
Putting on my practical hat:
You can go to Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival any year, if it's in
your backyard. CC won't be in your backyard again for at least half a
decade. Go to the event that you'll regret missing for years instead
of the one that you'll also be able to go to
Oh no! The organizers may well have thought the Sheep Wool fest
would be fun for CC participants to see. Not good for people who
will be at Sheep Wool full time, though. You might be able to do
some of the evening things at Costume Con, though.
-Carol
So I went to Darkover
Another used book source is half.com, which is the non-auction branch
of e-Bay. It's not great for the rarer costume books that we
listmembers like, but it's worth checking first. This is where
people unload books for $2 to $10 or so, and they have good
descriptions for condition.
As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our
grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about
18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her
new interest.
Is it a start of a library, or a start in constuming/reenactment?
There is a caraco in Patterns of Fashion, and I think it's similar,
without pleats or maybe it has minimal pleats.
If she made the pattern herself, then perhaps she has a preference.
Maybe she took it from an original. Either way, if you're making the
jacket for her you can ask about
Changing the subject line since there is more info than modern
fitting thank you for the interesting tid bits!
My daughter hated training bras but loved sports bras.
What exactly is a training bra ?
I remember shopping for the first bra, back around 1975. A-cups all
had
You said it was a ball, right? and you're going to style your long
hair into something big? In that case, my suggestion is to add a
couple of ostrich plumes. Pearls, silk flowers and the like could be
used, too. There is one charicature of a lady with a ship in full
sail worked into her
Nothing is stoping ANYONE on this list from taking the
trouble to contact the Metropolitan Museum and letting
them know that there might be derrivative work going
on, since ALL of us now know about the potential
violation...
I tend to approach the potential violater first if someone
True sweet tea is made by adding the sugar when the tea is still warm,
so that it dissolves completely.
I've made it that way - it makes sense. To me, the funniest thing
is that people in different areas will claim theirs is the best
iced tea. My mom is a good one for that - rather than
From: Sharon Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Oops! I don't know. I thought I made it up. (Dang, all the good ideas
are already taken) I don't know if it's copyright infringement if it's the
title of a fashion show.
So many books are called _A History of Costume_ that we refer to them
by the
In a message dated 7/22/2007 9:22:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I doubt Simplicity would have bothered with a good one for a photo shoot
***
AlbertCat wrote,
I dunno. I think the stylist for the shoot has a goal of making it look
like
something one
If she is the only one dressed in 18thC, then it's more of a costume
and the indoor/outdoor thing does not matter so much.
I'm not sure if there are different rules that go with a compere
front gown. You don't often have buttons as the closure on women's
clothing except for riding
Is there a link to this painting? Probably in a message in my in
box at home that I have not gotten to yet?
Please, everyone, when discussing paintings or anything else on the
web, keep the URL in your note. I do appreciate that people minimize
the quoted portion in their reply. But
If you want to do it gathered, then I would not use the wide gold
trim. It weighs down the look of it.
Also do you have sources for the ruching going down the front center
vertically? Often the emphasis is on the width of the bust, so the
horizontal ruching works, but the vertical
Does anyone do 1830s? The corset is a fairly natural shape, what
with being allowed to have two individual breasts and not a lot of
waist pinching. And, of course, everything is best with the right
undies.
I'm looking at something like the Lowell Mill Girl dress or the Full
High
Hi Kimberly,
The problem is that Felicity has a child's body and the clothing
styles are adult styles. I guess most of the buyers out there want
the adult styles because they aren't familiar whth what children
would wear. Felicity's blue gown is made after a blue doll's gown at
Colonial
I never rely on photos for this kind of thing as it's so easy for a
picture to get reversed when printed, and modern photo editiors
don't necessarily realise the importance. it was equally as possible
for a photographer at the time to have reversed the image by
mistake (ie too many
The fit of the supportive gown/GFD in the mid late 15thC is different
than in the 14thC early 15thC. The busk effect of Robin's straight-front
GFD style is no longer necessary to get the right look; the popular
silhouette
is one where the bust is very rounded, and sticks out rather than
Along those lines, there's a painting theme that might be useful to you in
this discussion: the Visitation, or Mary meeting Elizabeth while both are
pregnant.
http://www.paintedchurch.org/salsbvis.htm
Here is one without excess draping, but it's the hands on the
stomachs that is the most
Hi everyone (especially Robin),
On a Mary Magdalene list, we've been discussing paintings where she
looks pregnant. Of considerable discussion is this one:
http://www.abcgallery.com/W/weyden/weyden37.html
From what I remember of Robin's Gothic Fitted Dress info, the gown
should lace
Hi Bjarne,
We're talking about an 18thC gown, right?
I remember talking about this on 18cWoman quite a while back. After
much searching, I think someone found one picture of a robe Francaise
that was worn this way. Sounds like it was rare, and understandable
since it changes the line
It looks to me like a stomacher, with the blue ribbon as an applied
decoration. The ribbon is not functional. The gown closes by
pinning it to the stomacher, and the ruching would hide the pins
nicely.
So to construct it, make a stomacher and noodle around with the
ribbon until it
When discussing plastic corset boning, remember there are several
types of plastic available. There is a featherboning that is often
sold with a fabric covering, Wissner that comes in a couple of widths
and thicknesses (and is supposed to be similar to whalebone), and
Rigiline. Rigiline is
Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen
from my old embroidery shop.
The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i
use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge?
The perfect use would be caps, neck-handkerchiefs, engegantes
I think she kept her bra on, because she knew that i would post the
pictures on my webpage, for modesty. She is going to wear a chemise
with the dress.
I wasn't sure if it was a bra or a camisole. She should definitely
try them with a camisole or t-shirt and no bra. Then we could see
A lining is a nice finish, and also you can use a nice strong linen
or hemp canvas not have to worry if it's pretty or not.
There are some originals that are stitched through the outer layer,
but for many brocades or silks the outer layer is applied afterward.
It can go either way.
Many of you have done theatrical work, so maybe you can help. A
friend wants an addition to a jacket collar, another piece of fabric
put on top so the collar (not the lapels) is a different color. Easy
enough, right?
Except she wants it removeable, sometimes wearing the jacket with
In a message dated 9/29/2006 2:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Except she wants it removable, sometimes wearing the jacket with the
collar, sometimes without.
*
So, does she need a quick change?
I doubt it. So just make a collar she can
I'm wary of offering a prefix for chat. I do find that most people
do not consider this a chatty type of list. Even when discussing
something off-topic, many add the obligatory costume content at the
end. It's breast cancer awareness month, OCC I found this great
link on the history of
Then there is the theory of If you can't fix it, feature it! How
about cutting off the pull and replacing it with a bead or ornament,
or make something with seed beads.
I wonder if there is some sort of pull replacement you could make
using just the thread, which would be unobtrusive?
Although I thought other people also thought maybe there was a bit too
much off-topic and personal chat, I assume the one individual means
me. If not, who is it?
Hey, it's not just one individual - there are two of us at least!
As far as people unsubbing, there were some
I'm another non-blogger. I think it would be sad if the information
shared on this list was diminished because a majority decided to do
blogs instead.
I'm on a number of lists where occasionally someone will post a link
to a blog or web page if they have posted something relevant or
Dannaman's in Newark had great bolts of Buddhist
Orange silk for $1 a yard...which overdyed so
well as well as other great ends.
I remember when Dannemann's was built, which gave the death knell to
Sharrah's. I once got in to the back room to see the wondrous things
at Sharrah's. It's
Something. I don't know yet. The fabric voices aren't speaking to me
right now.
Fabric must ripen and mellow, of course - we shall sew no fabric
before its time!
I have told fabric store employees that I'm buying it simply because
I like it, on numerous occasions. I might say the
There will be some shrinkage due to the cording taking up the base
fabrics and turning them 3 dimensional. I discovered that the hard
way when making corded stays. Oops! Fortunately I was able to
insert a panel and get them back to size.
I know it's tedious, but maybe the trick is
http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/l-stomacher.htm
I suspect very strongly that this is trapunto work, not embroidery as
such. A Danish friend of mine has a waistcoat embroidered in a very
similar style, and of the same date. I have photos of it in close-up,
and of the back, and you can see
It's very cute! I especially like the bustle effect with the horse.
:-) It's difficult to have an adult style look good on a child, and
the trim works well there. With all those seams, is there nothing to
let out so she can wear it a bit longer?
-Carol
I have made an album on
Robin wrote,
(Sample question: How can I be sure that such-and-so-image of the
Madonna and Child isn't really Mary Magdalen and her baby by Jesus?)
Sample answer - what difference does it make when you're discussing
the clothing? I'm guessing your lecture is to help sort out the real
And, we are wandering from the original point, which was Hollywood
should make more accurate films.
Yes, I know. That's why I altered the subject line.
It's reasonable to discuss Hollywood
films in a classroom. It's not reasonable to complain that they should
all be made differently
And working in the other direction, often the clothing is part of our clue
to identification. This is a large part of that lecture. So part of my
answer to someone who wants to try to read an image of Mary as being
Magdalen has to do with how we use the clothing symbols to make the
Um, *that* was a throwaway line, and meant to amuse. This is Mary of
Egypt:
http://www.wga.hu/html/m/memling/3mature1/17rein4.html
(right side)
See, no implications for costume study there.
Interesting - Mary Magdalene also has the association of being a
penitent wandering in the
Hi Marc,
Generally Rev War events, at least on the East coast, have
participants organized in military units. Is it a battle event? If
so, then it's probably mostly reenactment units. The organization is
important for safety and walk on participants are discouraged.
In which case,
One of the things good teachers do, in addition to teaching how to
evaluate evidence logically, is teach about evaluating sources.
Movies, by their very nature, are not good or reliable sources.
Definitely! My first Costume History teacher, Fran Mayhew at the
University of Delaware, made
Plunkett and MacLean was an 18thC movie that used some modern music.
On the one hand it was odd, but we expect background music in movies.
What struck me as odd was that the movie was set mid-century (I think
it said 1740 or 1750 on screen), and a fashion-forward character was
dressed
Yes. Does it show? :-D
I especially liked the ceremonial collar. (See, I knew it had some
costume content!)
-Carol
Did you ever read a graphic novel called Motel of the Mysteries,
featuring the archaelogical discovery of a 20th-century motel?
Fran
Lavolta Press
I'm imagining the reenactor of the future doing light research about
people in the early 21stC wearing corn. They will do extensive
experiments with spinning and weaving the corn silk - we must have
lost that technology!
And then someone will find a corn-husk doll and understand that
I doubt you would need a leather needle to sew Kid, but you might get one
just in casefor the machine I mean. And since it stretches a bit, if
you have a walking foot...one with feed dogs to move the fabric on top
as well as underneath, you might find that helpful. This assuming you're
Oooh, check out those metallics!! I didn't see any white, but then
again I didn't look past the first page. It would be worth
contacting the seller to find out how thin the kid leather is.
At one point, the Silly Sisters (18thC clothing makers merchants)
had stay binding leather
Oh yes i had another question. Do you think i should use a linnen binding
for the tabs and the bustline, straps?
Thanks again.
I think fully boned stays in such an elegant fabric deserve white kid
leather for a binding.
-Carol
___
Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red H or something so that we can
identify ourselves at the lecture?
We did this a couple years back at a Costume Society of America
meeting. I brought a red Sharpie marker with me and it was easy for
list members to write a red H on their name badges.
Even in the 18th century, the typical drawstring neckline was not
used. Sometimes there is a drawstring that serves to snug up the
neckline a bit , but not to the extent of creating gathers.
Sleeves tend to be gathered into cuffs and sometimes a ruffle added
(sometimes of a finer
But, if a gown was polonaised, weren't they usually polonaised at/from
the back, not pulling the gown back from the centre front, as this one is?
That is probably the thing which is most wrong about this gown, and
made me think that an attempt had been made to alter it to suit a fashion
from
Diana said,
For a split skirt, I would decorate the underskirt or make it a different
color. I was thinking of making a quilted underskirt but it may just be a
petticoat that I can use later with a pet-en-l'air jacket or something
like that.
It depends on how close to actual 18th
I'm in the Philadelphia area (just outside the city limits).
Wow, you are right in the thick of a lot of resources! Beth Rump, I
think she's with the Chadds Ford museum, sponsored a workshop. Deb
Peterson of Past Masters has run stays workshops. Last year there
was a ladies only event at
i was thinking about the thin, narrow boning i used from Wissner for my
red taffeta stays. This is only 4 mm. wide. Would that be something you
could use for a crinoline cage? You would have to make many hoops
for this, but it surely would give it flexibility.
I think Wissner does make
That sounds like a good idea, I wish we had folks like that in the
States. Just make sure that whoever is helping you to fit the suit
understands the fitting/style differences between modern and
18th century suits. You don't want them 'fixing' the fit!
We do have people like that! Many
Someone suggested Hershey's Kisses -
An Engish friend of mine is a big fan of Hershey's chocolate and
enjoyed a trip to Hershey Park. What they don't have are York
peppermint patties. Not even in York, sadly enough. They have the
After 8 Mints, but not so much the thick patties. I don't
Somewhere there's got to be a FAQ...
On 18cWoman (a Yahoo group) we've discussed boning materials a number
of times. Plastic covers a wide range of things, from the prom
gown featherboning to various weights of the German plastic which is
supposed to most closely resemble whalebone in
Hi Saragrace,
The frame was invented by Reverend Lee in the late 16thC and
presented to Queen Elizabeth I for a patent. The story goes that she
refused, based on the fear it would put hand knitters out of
business. She did suggest that he should refine it to make fine-knit
silks.
Lee
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