Hi,
So, with more detailed comments below, I think the key thing I'm still
struggling with finding a way to articulate is the distinction between:
. assignment/(re)delegation of responsibility
. offloading work
I think the proposal addresses the second. I believe the real
Brian:
And to be clear, I (still the previous IETF Chair) think that
some such change is needed, which is exactly why I wrote the
above draft in 2006. Perhaps the difference is that I see
the IAOC/Trust role as very hard to separate from the IETF Chair
role - but more easily separable from
On 2011-09-29 04:24, Russ Housley wrote:
Brian:
And to be clear, I (still the previous IETF Chair) think that
some such change is needed, which is exactly why I wrote the
above draft in 2006. Perhaps the difference is that I see
the IAOC/Trust role as very hard to separate from the IETF
Yes, there's no doubt that the IESG needs to have strong input into
IASA decisions; there is no way round that. But it isn't clear to me
that this must be the IESG Chair's job, if we had a model where the
IETF Chair and IESG Chair were two different people. As long as it's
one person, this is a
On 09/28/2011 17:55, John Levine wrote:
I would rather have somebody show up at my meetings who has delegated
authority, enough time to pay attention and think about the issues,
and a good working relationship with the chair than insist that a
harried chair call in and mute his phone so
--On Monday, September 26, 2011 13:15 -0700 Bob Hinden
bob.hin...@gmail.com wrote:
John,
I don't see how you took what I said and then interpreted it
as suggesting that I was saying proposing an absolute
dictatorship. You do have a good imagination :-)
I didn't take your proposal that
On 2011-09-28 08:03, John C Klensin wrote:
snip
... Interesting it is exactly the
assumption that the IAB Chair will have first hand involvement
in everything that the IAB does that is cited an example of why
it is necessary to have the IAB Chair on the IASA. So, if the
IAB succeeds in
John,
I don't see how you took what I said and then interpreted it as suggesting that
I was saying proposing an absolute dictatorship. You do have a good
imagination :-)
Also, I have been proposing some other ways of solving the I* overload problems
as you suggested, except that I don't
--On Friday, September 23, 2011 11:04 +0300 Bob Hinden
bob.hin...@gmail.com wrote:
I also claim that for the third item there is no necessity
for the I* chairs to be a voting member, nor for the fourth.
That said, I am sensitive to the argument that if I* chairs
are members they may
Mike,
On Sep 22, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Michael StJohns wrote:
Hi Bob -
I actually think that delegating this to a co-chair or executive vice chair
would work. The similar military model is commander/executive officer where
the commander (chair) is responsible for strategic thinking and the
On 22 September 2011 20:02, Michael StJohns wrote:
I actually think that delegating this to a co-chair or executive
vice chair would work. The similar military model is
commander/executive officer where the commander (chair) is
responsible for strategic thinking and the XO (co-chair) is
Frank,
On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Frank Ellermann wrote:
On 22 September 2011 20:02, Michael StJohns wrote:
I actually think that delegating this to a co-chair or executive
vice chair would work. The similar military model is
commander/executive officer where the commander (chair) is
Jari,
On Sep 21, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:
Bob,
Goggle translate was helpful here :-)
Good... and next time when we meet over beer I can reveal the correct
translation :-)
Cool!
I do like your idea that IAOC itself needs to work smarter though. It
should really be
Olaf,
On Sep 21, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
On Sep 21, 2011, at 4:27 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
It is important for the I* chairs to be connected with the community.
It is important for the IAOC to be connected with the community.
It is important for the I* chairs to be informed
Bob,
I do agree that there are issues with the load of the I* chairs. My issue is
with this solution.
Clear now. Thanks.
Jari
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On Sep 23, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
I theory I can agree, but in practice I think the more separation there is
the more likelihood for organizational problems. The point I am trying to
make is that there needs to be close coordination between the IESG/IAB/ISOC
and having a
FWIW, I had stopped reading this thread a while ago because I assumed our
leaders would come up with The Right Solution without input from the entire
peanut gallery. When I told someone this, they pointed out that the thread had
taken on a completely different, much larger, subject in the past
What is needed is someone who is fully engaged in the IAOC.
Having a vote doesn't automatically get you that. Indeed, I would
assume most votes are a formality, with decisions reached mostly by
consensus. If, in fact, votes are close on a regular basis, the IAOC
likely has bigger problems, IMO.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Thomas Narten nar...@us.ibm.com wrote:
What is needed is someone who is fully engaged in the IAOC.
Having a vote doesn't automatically get you that. Indeed, I would
assume most votes are a formality, with decisions reached mostly by
consensus.
Both the IAOC
Mike,
On Sep 22, 2011, at 2:01 AM, Michael StJohns wrote:
I've been watching this with interest. I'm especially in agreement with
Leslie's comments about chair load.
Because of the legal issues with respect to the IETF trust and the
implementing documents for the IAOC, its going to be
Regarding the delegating the IETF chair participation in the IAOC,
On 9/22/2011 8:55 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
IETF Chair
The IETF chair is chosen by the nomcom. The job requirements are clear in
advance. Anyone applying is aware of the job. I don't think the IETF Chair
position on the IAOC
For Mike, Marshall, and for others who might be noodling on this ...
I hesitate to suggest this, but its probably time:
Let's add a position to the IESG - Executive Vice-Chair or Co-Adjutor
Chair. Basically, either the chair's personal representative (Executive
Vice-Chair) or their
Hi Bob -
I actually think that delegating this to a co-chair or executive vice chair
would work. The similar military model is commander/executive officer where
the commander (chair) is responsible for strategic thinking and the XO
(co-chair) is responsible for tactical execution. Also the
From: Michael StJohns mstjo...@comcast.net
The other reason I suggested adding a co-chair is that our process of
finding an IETF chair replacement is haphazard at best and criminally
negligent at worst. I'd really like to get a few apprentices identified
and qualified
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Brian E Carpenter
brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2011-09-21 05:44, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
snip
The Trust would need to commit to allowing these advisors to join their
meetings too. But that can be done in other ways than the Trust Agreement.
(so yes, I
At 22:47 20-09-2011, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
For the IAOC and IAB these will be difficult
challenges that cannot be enforced externally
but also need an evolutionary culture change.
Not only in the I* bodies themselves but also how the NOMCOM.
The IAOC has been around for six years. The IESG
Jari,
On Sep 19, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:
Bob,
I appreciate your view on this, particularly when you are day-to-day seeing
how the current system works with IAOC.
Thanks. I also note that several past IAOC chairs have expressed concern about
this proposal as well. That
Jari,
A few comments on your email to Jonne.
On Sep 19, 2011, at 9:36 PM, Jari Arkko wrote:
Jonne,
First, I want to thank you for the clear expression in Finnish. (Maheeta!
Vaikka näiden muutosten läpivienti alkaa kyllä tuntua siltä kuin jäitä
polttelisi, saa odottaa perse ruvella
Olaf,
On Sep 20, 2011, at 1:51 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Thanks Bob,
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter!
Thanks.
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Essentially I
Bob,
Goggle translate was helpful here :-)
Good... and next time when we meet over beer I can reveal the correct
translation :-)
I do like your idea that IAOC itself needs to work smarter though. It should
really be just a board, not the guys doing the actual work. As an outsider, it
Dear Jari;
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Jari Arkko jari.ar...@piuha.net wrote:
Bob,
Goggle translate was helpful here :-)
Good... and next time when we meet over beer I can reveal the correct
translation :-)
I fear it might be too much information.
I do like your idea that
On Sep 21, 2011, at 4:27 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
It is important for the I* chairs to be connected with the community.
It is important for the IAOC to be connected with the community.
It is important for the I* chairs to be informed about what is happening in
the IAOC
It is important for
Bob, Olaf,
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 05:27:11PM +0300, Bob Hinden wrote:
To repeat what I said, I didn't see the new draft resolving issues that I
and other raised on the list. The new draft is a different approach, but as
Leslie pointed out, it might be worse. In the old draft, the I* chairs
On 21/09/2011 21:03, David Kessens wrote:
The critical thing is that we don't loose the participation of the IETF
chair, IAB chair and ISOC President/CEO while at the same time finding a way
to lighten their workload.
I think one of the questions to be answered is: do we want participation
of
On 21/09/2011 16:50, Jari Arkko wrote:
But do you agree that workload for the chairs is an issue?
Yes, at least all the chairs I know say so, that makes it an issue for me.
Henk
--
--
Henk Uijterwaal
Henk,
If I look back at my years on the IAOC, then I think that it is very important that the opinions of the I* groups is known in the IAOC and it is equally important that the I* groups have a vote when decisions are to be made. I'm not at all convinced though that the person doing this needs
--On Thursday, September 22, 2011 00:12 +0300 Jari Arkko
jari.ar...@piuha.net wrote:
...
Also, there is some experience from the other direction:
sometimes it has happened that the chair talks with the IAOC
and they come up with some conclusion, but when he talks to
the rest of us in an
I've been watching this with interest. I'm especially in agreement with
Leslie's comments about chair load.
Because of the legal issues with respect to the IETF trust and the implementing
documents for the IAOC, its going to be pretty difficult to come up with a way
to remove some of the
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Michael StJohns mstjo...@comcast.netwrote:
I've been watching this with interest. I'm especially in agreement with
Leslie's comments about chair load.
Because of the legal issues with respect to the IETF trust and the
implementing documents for the IAOC, its
On 20/09/2011 00:30, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
[...] the I* Chairs would
remain as Trustees. Since that is (in my experience) a large
part of an IAOC member's time commitment, the problem you're
trying to solve would not be solved, IMHO, unless the Trust
amended the Trust Agreement too. That's
Thanks Bob,
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter!
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Essentially I incorporated Dave Crocker's proposal to
1) replace the 'chairs' by voting
--On Monday, September 19, 2011 17:58 -0500 Jorge Contreras
cntre...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Brian's interpretation is correct. If someone is an IAOC
member, voting or not, then he/she is a Trustee with full
fiduciary duties. To change this, the Trust Agreement would
need to be amended.
Dear Brian, Olaf;
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Brian E Carpenter
brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2011-09-19 20:05, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
snip
Also, the new section 2.3, which is incorrectly titled but presumably
is intended to be IETF Trust membership seems to me to be
On Sep 20, 2011, at 6:25 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
- Olaf's wording be changed to make the IAB Chair, IETF Chair and ISOC CEO
into ex-officio and non-voting Liaisons to the IAOC and the Trust.
- The TAP then be modified to recognize the status of these new ex-officio
and non-voting
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Olaf Kolkman o...@nlnetlabs.nl wrote:
On Sep 20, 2011, at 6:25 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
- Olaf's wording be changed to make the IAB Chair, IETF Chair and ISOC
CEO into ex-officio and non-voting Liaisons to the IAOC and the Trust.
- The TAP then be
Hi,
I had the comments below on a previous incarnation of how to fix the
IAOC because Chairs are overloaded.
I have to say -- I don't think the substantive points are addressed in
the new proposal, which leaves the Chairs as spectators to the IAOC process.
I don't think you can disagree
--On Tuesday, September 20, 2011 14:16 -0400 Leslie Daigle
les...@thinkingcat.com wrote:
Hi,
I had the comments below on a previous incarnation of how to
fix the IAOC because Chairs are overloaded.
I have to say -- I don't think the substantive points are
addressed in the new
On 2011-09-21 05:44, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
On Sep 20, 2011, at 6:25 PM, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
- Olaf's wording be changed to make the IAB Chair, IETF Chair and ISOC CEO
into ex-officio and non-voting Liaisons to the IAOC and the Trust.
- The TAP then be modified to recognize the status of
Hi Brian,
On 9/21/11 12:09 AM, Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com
wrote:
[snip]
The Trust would need to commit to allowing these advisors to join their
meetings too. But that can be done in other ways than the Trust
Agreement.
(so yes, I agree with this line of thought)
On Sep 20, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
...exactly. I'm far from convinced about that. I think the real need is to
figure out how to make the IAOC an Oversight committee rather than it getting
involved in executive decisions, and to figure out how to make the IAB an
Brian,
So far you are the only person that has responded with substance. Other
feedback was promised but never arrived. I hope to rev this document shortly so
that we can finalize it before the Taiwan meeting.
I wrote:
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Olaf Kolkman o...@nlnetlabs.nl wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
I still do not understand the basic problem that trigger/cause that propsal.
Have been
Roger,
I still do not understand the basic problem that trigger/cause that propsal.
Have been alot of discussion and suggestion and problems but nothing
that made me understand why, what is the underlaying cause.
It is very simple. Both the IAB and IETF chair duties are extensive, and
Olaf,
On Jul 26, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Essentially I incorporated Dave Crocker's proposal to
1) replace the 'chairs' by voting members
Hi Olaf,
I went through the draft just now, and I have some quite strong feelings
about it. I'm sorry I'm sending my comments so late in the game.
A disclaimer first: I was the chairman of the IAOC some years back, but I
haven't been actively involved with IETF administration after that.
Bob,
I appreciate your view on this, particularly when you are day-to-day seeing how
the current system works with IAOC.
That being said, I do think it is important to give some flexibility to chairs
on organizing their work. And it is important to provide tools for them to
manage their
--On Monday, September 19, 2011 10:37 +0200 Roger Jørgensen
rog...@gmail.com wrote:
Have been alot of discussion and suggestion and problems but
nothing that made me understand why, what is the underlaying
cause. (it could be that I'm just slow, we shouldn't rule that
out :-) )
Roger,
The
Olaf == Olaf Kolkman o...@nlnetlabs.nl writes:
Olaf Dear Colleagues,
Olaf I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to
Olaf update BCP101. It can be found at:
Olaf http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Olaf The draft is very short
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:05 AM, Sam Hartman hartmans-i...@mit.edu wrote:
Olaf == Olaf Kolkman o...@nlnetlabs.nl writes:
Olaf Dear Colleagues,
Olaf I have just chartered a very short draft that intends to
Olaf update BCP101. It can be found at:
Olaf
For what it's worth, I largely agree with John's statement of the
justification for Olaf's proposal.
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair positions less
of a full-time (or more) job, is a good thing.
I could be in the rough on whether this specific proposal is the
I think the draft would be improved by explicitly considering these
issues and not remaining silent, even if the decision is to say that
these are full members; existing processes for recall etc apply; at the
time of writing that means blah. I think that would lead to better
discussion and review
On 9/19/2011 8:35 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair positions less of
a full-time (or more) job, is a good thing.
Anything? I believe you do not believe that statement, but I think it
accurately summarizes the focus of this thread, so
Dear Spencer;
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Spencer Dawkins spen...@wonderhamster.org
wrote:
For what it's worth, I largely agree with John's statement of the
justification for Olaf's proposal.
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair positions
less of a full-time
Dave == Dave CROCKER d...@dcrocker.net writes:
Dave On 9/19/2011 8:35 AM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair
positions less of a full-time (or more) job, is a good thing.
Dave Anything? I believe you do not believe that
Jonne,
First, I want to thank you for the clear expression in Finnish. (Maheeta!
Vaikka näiden muutosten läpivienti alkaa kyllä tuntua siltä kuin jäitä
polttelisi, saa odottaa perse ruvella että kukaan olisi samaa mieltä mistään,
'kele!) Too bad the English version was not as graphic.
--On Monday, September 19, 2011 14:04 -0400 Marshall Eubanks
marshall.euba...@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Spencer;
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Spencer Dawkins
spen...@wonderhamster.org
wrote:
For what it's worth, I largely agree with John's statement of
the justification for Olaf's
Hi, Dave,
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair positions
less of
a full-time (or more) job, is a good thing.
Anything? I believe you do not believe that statement, but I think it
accurately summarizes the focus of this thread, so far.
Thanks for the wake-up
On 9/19/2011 12:26 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
but I would like us to think about if not this, what gets offloaded?
+1
There is a real problem to solve. I* folk are, in fact, seriously overloaded.
Besides being inherently unreasonable, it makes it harder to find candidates for
the
--On Monday, September 19, 2011 14:26 -0500 Spencer Dawkins
spen...@wonderhamster.org wrote:
Anything? I believe you do not believe that statement, but I
think it accurately summarizes the focus of this thread, so
far.
...
I am carefully reading the notes that were posted after I
posted.
On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
Hi, Dave,
Anything that the IETF can do, to make the IAB and IETF Chair positions
less of
a full-time (or more) job, is a good thing.
Anything? I believe you do not believe that statement, but I think it
accurately summarizes the focus of this
At 01:05 19-09-2011, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
As far as I understand the trust agreement the
voting members and the IAD are members of the
trust. If the 'chairs' are non-voting members of
the IAOC then the idea is that they would not be
trustees and a modification of the trust
agreement is not
John,
FWIW, in my tenures on the IESG and IAB, there were often folks
who had a lot less long-term perspective on those bodies, the
IETF, and the Internet than the Chairs and some who had as much
or more. Unless we are willing to make the magical assumption,
I don't think Chair has knowledge
Hi Jari,
On 9/19/11 9:36 PM, Jari Arkko jari.ar...@piuha.net wrote:
Jonne,
First, I want to thank you for the clear expression in Finnish. (Maheeta!
Vaikka näiden muutosten läpivienti alkaa kyllä tuntua siltä kuin jäitä
polttelisi, saa odottaa perse ruvella että kukaan olisi samaa mieltä
On 2011-09-19 20:05, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
snip
Also, the new section 2.3, which is incorrectly titled but presumably
is intended to be IETF Trust membership seems to me to be inconsistent
with the Trust Agreement. The Trust Agreement states that the Eligible
Persons
(to become Trustees) are
As far as I understand the trust agreement the voting members and the IAD
are members of the trust. If the 'chairs' are non-voting members of the IAOC
then the idea is that they would not be trustees and a modification of the
trust agreement is not needed. That can be clarified.
If the
On 2011-07-27 00:52, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Essentially I incorporated Dave Crocker's proposal to
1) replace the 'chairs' by voting members appointed
Dear Colleagues,
Based on the discussion I've updated the draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kolkman-iasa-ex-officio-membership
Essentially I incorporated Dave Crocker's proposal to
1) replace the 'chairs' by voting members appointed by the respective bodies.
2) allow the chairs to
There is one error that must be fixed, and several nits. Otherwise, WFM.
Marshall
There is a big typo in Section 2.1
The ISOC board of Trustees, the IAB, and the IAOC will appoint two
s/IAOC/IESG/
Nits
Section 1
an integrated perspective about their bodies work to the IAOC.
On 4/20/2011 2:21 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
In the case of the IETF Chair I believe the issue is that it's
highly desirable, from a governance viewpoint, that the IETF Chair
has *personal* responsibility in IAOC decisions,
Why?
What happens if the person in that role is not specifically
On 4/21/11 10:38 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 4/20/2011 2:21 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
In the case of the IETF Chair I believe the issue is that it's
highly desirable, from a governance viewpoint, that the IETF Chair
has *personal* responsibility in IAOC decisions,
Why?
What
On 2011-04-22 05:49, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
On 4/21/11 10:38 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 4/20/2011 2:21 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
In the case of the IETF Chair I believe the issue is that it's
highly desirable, from a governance viewpoint, that the IETF Chair
has *personal* responsibility in
--On Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:49 -0700 Joel Jaeggli
joe...@bogus.com wrote:
On 4/21/11 10:38 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 4/20/2011 2:21 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
In the case of the IETF Chair I believe the issue is that
it's highly desirable, from a governance viewpoint, that the
Hi Bob,
At 14:04 19-04-2011, Bob Hinden wrote:
But that may not always be the case that all IAOC members have a lot
of IETF experience. We need to have a governance model that works
into the future.
Yes, it may happen that some IAOC members may not have a lot of IETF
experience. How do you
On 4/19/2011 12:53 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
1. ISOC, IAB and IESG each appoint one person currently. Change this to be
two each, the same as Nomcom. Each year, they would appoint one person.
2. Move the I* Chairs to be non-voting ex-officio participants, the same as
the IETF Administrative
Dave CROCKER d...@dcrocker.net wrote:
On 4/19/2011 12:53 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
[Dave CROCKER d...@dcrocker.net wrote:]
1. ISOC, IAB and IESG each appoint one person currently. Change this
to be two each, the same as Nomcom. Each year, they would appoint
one person.
2. Move the I*
On 2011-04-20 21:13, SM wrote:
Hi Bob,
At 14:04 19-04-2011, Bob Hinden wrote:
But that may not always be the case that all IAOC members have a lot
of IETF experience. We need to have a governance model that works
into the future.
...
You may notice that there isn't any intersection with
Brian,
If we are going to do this, then I tend to agree with your conclusions.
I agree with you that the views of the I* Chairs are important.
In the case of the IETF Chair I believe the issue is that it's
highly desirable, from a governance viewpoint, that the IETF Chair
has
--On Saturday, April 16, 2011 07:51 -0700 Lucy Lynch
lly...@civil-tongue.net wrote:
The implication is that the people sitting in the positions
of IAB Chair and IETF Chair are essential to the good
operation of the IAOC/Trust. Someone else from their groups
or even someone else that they
Bob, et al,
On 4/18/2011 2:25 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
I didn't say no one else could do the job adequately. I said would have a
negative impact on the operations of the IETF.
Right. And my second sentence did go farther than I meant.
However rejecting an effort to change the current
Hi Bob,
At 14:25 18-04-2011, Bob Hinden wrote:
I didn't say no one else could do the job adequately. I said would
have a negative impact on the operations of the IETF.
Some examples where an I* chair had a significant influence on a
decision that IAOC made include:
- The hiring of the
Dave,
On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
Bob, et al,
On 4/18/2011 2:25 PM, Bob Hinden wrote:
I didn't say no one else could do the job adequately. I said would have a
negative impact on the operations of the IETF.
Right. And my second sentence did go farther than I
SM,
Eric Burger
Dave Crocker
Marshall Eubanks
Bob Hinden
Ray Pelletier (non-voting)
None of them are new to the IETF. If it requires I* Chairs for the IAOC to
be transparent, something is not right.
But that may not always be the case that all IAOC members have a lot of IETF
Dave,
On 4/14/2011 9:51 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
My concern is that this proposed change would likely make the IAOC work
worse. That is, I think it would have a negative impact on the operations
of
the IETF and that is why I am concerned.
Bob,
That is a concrete and basic assertion.
On Sat, 16 Apr 2011, John C Klensin wrote:
snip
At the risk of agreeing violently with Dave, I think the series
of comments above, and referenced above, are missing something.
None of this familiy of delegation or someone else proposals
requires that the IAB or IESG Chairs not serve on the
On 4/16/2011 7:51 AM, Lucy Lynch wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Dave CROCKER wrote:
That is a concrete and basic assertion. Please put some flesh on its bones so
that the basis for your view can be understood better.
Let me take a run at this.
Back in the pre-history of BCP 101 we had very
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011, Dave CROCKER wrote:
On 4/14/2011 9:51 AM, Bob Hinden wrote:
My concern is that this proposed change would likely make the IAOC work
worse. That is, I think it would have a negative impact on the operations
of
the IETF and that is why I am concerned.
Bob,
That is
Olaf,
Thanks for posting this analysis. I'm on travel but will have
a careful look in a few days.
Brian
On 2011-04-15 04:25, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
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Certainly the IASA/IAD/IAOC reorganisation produced a noticeable
reduction in the IETF Chair
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On Apr 15, 2011, at 1:19 AM, Leslie Daigle wrote:
Speaking as an individual, but an individual who helped set up this structure
and who sat in the non-delegated ex officio IAB Chair position on the IAOC
(and IETF Trust) for a couple of years,
A couple of observations from my personal viewpoint.
I tend to agree with others that we need to think about this in a
top-down fashion, i.e. start from what is the problem that we intend to
solve. I do have a serious concern about the workload for the people
involved, particularly the
On 14/04/2011 23:26, Bob Hinden wrote:
This prompts me to ask a question. Who would the IETF Chair delegate this
responsibility to? The draft doesn't specify.
I would say one of the (nomcom appointed) members of the IESG (or IAB).
An Area Director is the obvious answer, except from what I
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