[LUTE] Fun with chords: Handel and JC Bach (the elder)

[David Tayler]

   Here are two fairly short works that I particularly enjoy playing lute
   continuo on:
   Handel's Ombra mai fu (his most popular aria)--there is also a version
   by Bononcini which is also nice with lute
   Ombra mai fu is in F major, but you can move it up a tone to G Major if
   you are playing in A tuning, and in this key it is very good with
   soprano.
   We transposed it to E Flat Major for countertenor.
   [1]Handel: Ombra mai fu (Serse); Christopher Lowrey, countertenor,
   Voices of Music 4K UHD


  [2]image






   [3]Handel: Ombra mai fu (Serse); Christopher Lowrey, count...
   [4]View on www.youtube.com
   Preview by Yahoo

   The other work is the JC Bach Lamento--in G Minor it lies really very
   well for archlute or Theorbo in G tuning; transposed up a tone to A
   Minor it is super on the theorbo and also lies better for soprano.
   [5]J.C. Bach ~ Lamento: Ach, dass ich Wassers gnug hACURtte;
   Christopher Lowrey, countertenor 4K UHD


  [6]image






   [7]J.C. Bach ~ Lamento: Ach, dass ich Wassers gnug hACURtte; C...
   [8]View on www.youtube.com
   Preview by Yahoo

   dt

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAP7j3B_yIY
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAP7j3B_yIY
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAP7j3B_yIY
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAP7j3B_yIY
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGZRzk-E3U
   6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGZRzk-E3U
   7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGZRzk-E3U
   8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGZRzk-E3U


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[LUTE] Re: Meads Redux

[David Tayler]

   Sorry some of the tunes would not play--I included the Jennifer Ellis
   Kampani version on the list (the Artemisia CD you mention).
   You are located in the UK, are you not? I ask because usually the only
   country that filters YouTube content is Germany, owing to the GEMA
   dispute.
   I have to say I found it fascinating to listen to the different
   versions. I deliberately didn't listen before filming because sometimes
   you can't get a version you have heard out of your head, after filming
   I decided to listen to a few versions, and then I thought it would be
   interesting to see how many versions I could find. I could not locate a
   version by Emma Kirkby, if anyone knows of one please add it to the
   list.
 __

   From: M Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   To: 'David Tayler' <vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
   Cc: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 1:41 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Meads Redux
   Thanks for a very interesting list.  Most of them I didn't seem to be
   able
   to play - perhaps because they are from commercially produced CDs?
   There is
   a very nice version of the song on Richard Savino's lstest CD - What
   Artemisia heard (Sono Luminus).  I liked the first version with Anne
   Dennis
   very much.  There is this idea that because no music was printed in
   England
   which specifies the baroque guitar as the accompanying instrument
   English
   songs were never performed in this way.  But actually there is  a lot
   of
   cicumstatial evidence of people playing the guitar in England
   throughout the
   17th century.  The young English man Bullen Reymes travelled on the
   continent and studied the guitar in Venice with a Signor Donato in
   1634.
   Accompanying songs in this way was probably one of the things he learnt
   to
   do.  He purchased a guitar in Naples whilst he was there and he also
   played
   duets for lute and guitar with one of his mates.
   Regards
   Monica
   -Original Message-
   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
   Of David Tayler
   Sent: 19 January 2016 02:11
   To: Lute List
   Subject: [LUTE] Meads Redux
 A playlist of Lanier's "Loves Constancy: No more shall meads be
   deck'd
 with flow'rs." So many fine and talented musicians have chosen to
 record this song, we thought it would be interesting to make a
   playlist
 of some of the more intriguing versions.
 [1]Nicholas Lanier: No more shall meads (Love's Constancy); Anna
   Dennis
 & Voices of Music 4K UHD
 The different versions may be of particular interest to those
   studying
 how to realize a simple, unfigured bass line (or passacaglia, in some
 cases), you can see here many of the inventive realizations by
 keyboard, lute & viol players. For singers, you can see a wide
   variety
 of techniques and ornamentation. The pieces are in no particular
   order
 (I made sure to put one of my versions last). There's quite a variety
 of pitches going down to A=370.
 If you have recorded a version and would like to see it here, just
   drop
 me a line. I was unable to add Mignarda's stellar recording as it was
 not available on YouTube, but it may be found (and even purchased)
 here:
 [2]No More Shall Meads Be Deck'd With Flow'rs, by Mignarda
 I note that the contents of an entire album that I recorded
   (including
 this song) is sold worldwide even though we own all the rights to it;
 it's on YouTube, Amazon, iTunes, elevator music, compilations, etc.
   And
 so it goes. At least anyone can listen
 It was really fun listening to all of these!
 --
   References
 1.
   [3]https://youtu.be/25d6PFr272M?list=PL5r9vx6vJSwbgVfFKK3WxQOGv6VdIcFa0
 2.
   [4]https://mignarda.bandcamp.com/track/no-more-shall-meads-be-deck-d-wi
   th-flow-
   rs
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. https://youtu.be/25d6PFr272M?list=PL5r9vx6vJSwbgVfFKK3WxQOGv6VdIcFa0
   4. 
https://mignarda.bandcamp.com/track/no-more-shall-meads-be-deck-d-with-flow-
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Meads Redux

[David Tayler]

   A playlist of Lanier's "Loves Constancy: No more shall meads be deck'd
   with flow'rs." So many fine and talented musicians have chosen to
   record this song, we thought it would be interesting to make a playlist
   of some of the more intriguing versions.
   [1]Nicholas Lanier: No more shall meads (Love's Constancy); Anna Dennis
   & Voices of Music 4K UHD
   The different versions may be of particular interest to those studying
   how to realize a simple, unfigured bass line (or passacaglia, in some
   cases), you can see here many of the inventive realizations by
   keyboard, lute & viol players. For singers, you can see a wide variety
   of techniques and ornamentation. The pieces are in no particular order
   (I made sure to put one of my versions last). There's quite a variety
   of pitches going down to A=370.
   If you have recorded a version and would like to see it here, just drop
   me a line. I was unable to add Mignarda's stellar recording as it was
   not available on YouTube, but it may be found (and even purchased)
   here:
   [2]No More Shall Meads Be Deck'd With Flow'rs, by Mignarda
   I note that the contents of an entire album that I recorded (including
   this song) is sold worldwide even though we own all the rights to it;
   it's on YouTube, Amazon, iTunes, elevator music, compilations, etc. And
   so it goes. At least anyone can listen
   It was really fun listening to all of these!

   --

References

   1. https://youtu.be/25d6PFr272M?list=PL5r9vx6vJSwbgVfFKK3WxQOGv6VdIcFa0
   2. 
https://mignarda.bandcamp.com/track/no-more-shall-meads-be-deck-d-with-flow-rs


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[LUTE] Re: Performing lute in ensemble

[David Tayler]

   Unfortunately, getting people to play soft is more or less impossible,
   so you certainly could add mutes--the reason being that many historical
   violins had thicker bridges and the bows had less contact area (thinner
   ribbons), so the combination of mutes and dagger bows would get you
   closer to the unmuted, thicker bridge sound and the dagger bows closer
   to original bows. Dagger bows were used well into the 18th c.
   Certainly a gamba is going to be way better than a cello on the bass
   for reasons that have to do with the overtones completely covering the
   middle of the sound, or find a cellist like Joanna Blendulf or
   Elisabeth Reed (to name just a few) who can make a cello sound like a
   chocolate gamba.
   d
 __

   From: Daniel Shoskes 
   To: Lute List 
   Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 4:43 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Performing lute in ensemble
   Dear list: I've been having fun with the Lauffensteiner g minor
   "concerto" (andante:[1]https://youtu.be/q9dV2QbcBc8
   <[2]http://youtu.be/q9dV2QbcBc8>). In the Brussels Ms it has parts for
   2 violins and 1 cello (OK, 2 treble clef instruments and a bass clef
   instrument with figures). In performance of pieces like this, how do
   people handle balance of instruments? Clearly having the other
   instruments in gut would help but it's still a struggle to have the
   lute loud enough in comparison with the strings. Mics? Mutes? Just play
   as loud as you can all the way through?
   Thanks
   Danny
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://youtu.be/q9dV2QbcBc8
   2. http://youtu.be/q9dV2QbcBc8
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Happy New Year!

[David Tayler]

   Happy New Year, and may all your lutes be happy as well :)
   David T
   [1]Vivaldi: Winter (the Four Seasons, "L'Inverno"), Cynthia Freivogel &
   Voices of Music 4K UHD RV 297


  [2]image






   [3]Vivaldi: Winter (the Four Seasons, "L'Inverno"), Cynthia...
   [4]View on www.youtube.com
   Preview by Yahoo

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWg5ugyMjIc
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWg5ugyMjIc
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWg5ugyMjIc
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWg5ugyMjIc


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] How a tennis match, a hat and a low doorway let to the Parisian chanson

[David Tayler]

   The game's ahead: how a tennis match led to the development of the
   Parisian chanson.
   When I was a child visiting Europe, I asked, "Why are the doorways so
   small?" And I was told that people were smaller back then; true enough,
   some were. But consider the untimely demise of Charles VIII of France.
   In his haste to attend a tennis match, he hit his head on a door
   lintel, and his large and colorful hat did not protect him This event
   indirectly had an enormous effect on the arts, and particularly music,
   as he was succeeded by Louis XII, who rebuilt the government, and the
   Francis I, the great patron of the arts and host to Leonardo da Vinci.
   His wife, Anne of Brittany, went on to support musicians and poets. And
   so, a tennis match and a low doorway lead to the creation of the
   Parisian chanson.
   So the next time you play Tant que vivray, don't forget to duck!
   Photo here:
   [1]https://www.facebook.com/Voicesofmusic

   --

References

   1. https://www.facebook.com/Voicesofmusic


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[LUTE] Re: Soap & Talc, quick question

[David Tayler]

   I don't use talc or related products because of the asbestos.
   Isn't that a cheery thought?
   d
 __

   From: andy butler 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:11 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Soap & Talc, quick question
   I'm about to change strings on my lute, and I understand that applying
   a soap/talc mix to the pegs will help with tuning.
   So, is that a 50/50 mix?
   Should I add any water?
   any tips gratefully received
   kind regards
   andy
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Bach BWV 1013 Allemande

[David Tayler]

   The allemande from the partita in A Aminor, BWV 1013
   [1]J.S. Bach: Partita in A Minor, Allemande BWV 1013; David Tayler,
   archlute
   Clearly marked allemande in the ms, and yet more like a prelude...I
   suppose Bach knew what an allemande was better than me, for sure.


  [2]image






   [3]J.S. Bach: Partita in A ...
   [4]View on www.youtube.com
   Preview by Yahoo

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkPaGnKb5M
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkPaGnKb5M
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkPaGnKb5M
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zkPaGnKb5M


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[LUTE] Re: What is a classic lute quartet?

[David Tayler]

   Four lutes and a six pack
   d
 __

   From: Herbert Ward 
   To: Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 1:03 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] What is a classic lute quartet?
   I saw a description of "the classic lute quartet"
   as four lutes in d'', a', g, and d.
   I googled, and I searched the archives of this forum,
   and I also tried Wikipedia.  Very little was forthcoming.
   So I have a number of questions.  Is there such a thing
   as "the classic lute quartet"?  Is there a body of
   literature for it?  Where and when was its heydey?  Who
   composed music for it?  What factors caused its rise and
   fall?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Carpe diem

[David Tayler]

Carpe diem!
A new video of Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.
https://youtu.be/b1jw-5D_rG4



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[LUTE] Kicking the Kickstarter, latest HD VIdeos from the video mill

[David Tayler]

Any contributions much appreciated!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/301451197/free-vivaldi-four-seasons-the-great-works-project

The latest from the video mill~

3D animated short:
https://youtu.be/p9JX1HWyLJA

Steffani Stabat Mater: the concluding six-voice double Fugue--super 
wow from Steffani, his last work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjPB4GzcKf4

Also the first movement of the Stabat Mater for solo soprano and strings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pf6LNQUcqU

Monteverdi's Con che soavita--one of the best pieces eva!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H811lltfDCc

Grandi Beatus Vir from Christmas (Festivus) Vespers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKyNAel0XPg

Marini Passacaglia in G Minor (very nice for lute continuo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyMw-QX6c74

Grandi Laudate Dominum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDD5GdxZemw

Fireworks arranged for two harpsichords--really fun, should arrange 
it for lutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nbVGoGv6ds

Grandi Laudate Pueri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb-RFlFiWJM

Enjoy!
dt









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[LUTE] Re: Single versus triple roses

[David Tayler]

   I used the best measurement mic, AFAIK, that one can buy and measured
   it. That's the science. Part of science is measuring things.
   I don't believe there is a one size fits all scientific explanation
   since there is no standard lute soundboard, bowl, bracing, materials,
   strings, etc., (way too many variables) but it is universally accepted
   that if it is too noisy in the house you close the window. If someone
   comes up with a theory, that's great and I would read it, of course,
   and probably only understand half of it. But there would be no way of
   knowing whether the theory was correct--just read the history of
   acoustical theory. One could do a controlled study of a particular
   lute, but what would the goal be? If it is to play loud, then purchase
   a tuba.
   d
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:55 PM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Single versus triple roses
   In his interesting response, I had understood Martin was asking for a
   measured scientific explanation rather than a list of anecdotal (and
   necessarily subjective) observations:I invite all you proper
   physicists out there to explain why!.  I'd be interested to read
   anything you have along these lines.
   MH
 __

   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: BENJAMIN NARVEY luthi...@gmail.com
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, 30 November 2014, 19:13
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single versus triple roses
 This is a very interesting question, and also one that has been
   debated
 in the construction of harpsichords.
 I have a few, very simple observations.
 First of all, and most importantly, Andy is absolutely correct that
   if
 you use a measurement micaI recommend the DPA 4007aand analyze the
 sound coming out of the sound hole (or holes), the sound is vastly
 different. The classic mistake when recording lute, guitar, cello,
 harpsichord, etc, is to place the mic too close to the soundhole,
 because of the extreme difference in the sound. You can also make a
 tube out of paper, roll it up and listen like a coelenterate. Using
   the
 same mic, you will also see that the bridge is the other hot spot.
 Let's take a little detour here and mention that in almost all
 recordings of lute, the frequency pattern is skewed so the left
   channel
 sounds different than the right, and that's because the sound is
 fundamentally different from the rose and the bridge, causing big
 imaging problems (which can be fixed using the lute centering trick,
 subject of another post).
 I can also go on record as saying that if you take a cheap lute and
 remove the rose and put a different one in, it will change the sound.
 Also, the surface area of the actual holes (not the size of the rose
 but the amount of space in the rose) makes a difference. If you add a
 vent hole to the bass, well, it changes the sound. They knew this
   back
 whenever.
 Lastly, the rose and the lute form a strategic sound system. You
   can't
 teak one without tweaking the other. And that's because the size of
   the
 rose affects the resonance and flexibility of the soundboard on the
 rose bar amplification nodeaa sub-hotspot that runs usually through
   the
 middle of the rose, edge to edge but mainly in the middle (the center
 of the rose or rose pattern, in most cases).
 If you make a BIG single rose that has the same open surface area as
   a
 triple, generally speaking it will sound more open, and if too big
   will
 make the lute yawn. But it all depends on the way the sound board
 interacts with the tension resulting from the roseaa really big rose
 bends easier, unless heavily barred (another factor).
 My feeling is that the most open sound comes from a large, single
   rose
 with narrower weaving, but you can achieve almost the same sound with
   a
 triple. And, again speaking very generally, if you want a more open
 sound, have the rose made a bit larger, bearing in mind that the lute
 may yawn. A lute that has a naturally stiff top may benefit from the
 added flexibility of a single rose, because the top of the triple is
 inherently stifferamore soundboard, less rose. Obviously, the shape
   of
 the bowl comes into play as the sound board may be wider at the top
   of
 the rose with a more barge-like bowl. It could also be that players
   in
 the renaissance and baroque preferred a more covered sound. After
   all,
 there are no recorders made nowadays with historical windways, the
 builders just widen them.
 It's up to the builder to find

[LUTE] Re: Single versus triple roses

[David Tayler]

   This is a very interesting question, and also one that has been debated
   in the construction of harpsichords.
   I have a few, very simple observations.
   First of all, and most importantly, Andy is absolutely correct that if
   you use a measurement micaI recommend the DPA 4007aand analyze the
   sound coming out of the sound hole (or holes), the sound is vastly
   different. The classic mistake when recording lute, guitar, cello,
   harpsichord, etc, is to place the mic too close to the soundhole,
   because of the extreme difference in the sound. You can also make a
   tube out of paper, roll it up and listen like a coelenterate. Using the
   same mic, you will also see that the bridge is the other hot spot.
   Let's take a little detour here and mention that in almost all
   recordings of lute, the frequency pattern is skewed so the left channel
   sounds different than the right, and that's because the sound is
   fundamentally different from the rose and the bridge, causing big
   imaging problems (which can be fixed using the lute centering trick,
   subject of another post).
   I can also go on record as saying that if you take a cheap lute and
   remove the rose and put a different one in, it will change the sound.
   Also, the surface area of the actual holes (not the size of the rose
   but the amount of space in the rose) makes a difference. If you add a
   vent hole to the bass, well, it changes the sound. They knew this back
   whenever.
   Lastly, the rose and the lute form a strategic sound system. You can't
   teak one without tweaking the other. And that's because the size of the
   rose affects the resonance and flexibility of the soundboard on the
   rose bar amplification nodeaa sub-hotspot that runs usually through the
   middle of the rose, edge to edge but mainly in the middle (the center
   of the rose or rose pattern, in most cases).
   If you make a BIG single rose that has the same open surface area as a
   triple, generally speaking it will sound more open, and if too big will
   make the lute yawn. But it all depends on the way the sound board
   interacts with the tension resulting from the roseaa really big rose
   bends easier, unless heavily barred (another factor).
   My feeling is that the most open sound comes from a large, single rose
   with narrower weaving, but you can achieve almost the same sound with a
   triple. And, again speaking very generally, if you want a more open
   sound, have the rose made a bit larger, bearing in mind that the lute
   may yawn. A lute that has a naturally stiff top may benefit from the
   added flexibility of a single rose, because the top of the triple is
   inherently stifferamore soundboard, less rose. Obviously, the shape of
   the bowl comes into play as the sound board may be wider at the top of
   the rose with a more barge-like bowl. It could also be that players in
   the renaissance and baroque preferred a more covered sound. After all,
   there are no recorders made nowadays with historical windways, the
   builders just widen them.
   It's up to the builder to find the sweet spot for an instrument, and
   it's up to the player to work with the builder to push the limits.
   dt
   ___

   From: BENJAMIN NARVEY luthi...@gmail.com
   To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:45 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Single versus triple roses
 Dear All,
 Thanks so much for all your thoughts into the single/triple rose
 conundrum. It is obviously so hard to know just how this aspect
   changes
 the tonal colours of lutes. It is also very difficult to test just
   how
 this one aspect alters things given that every lute is different,
   even
 if it is the same model from the same maker.
 I will continue to do some intuitive and highly unscientific tests!
 Best wishes,
 Benjamin
 On Sunday, 23 November 2014, Martin Shepherd
   [1][1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk
 wrote:
   I fear there is a natural tendency to think of the rose as the hole
   that lets the sound out, but I think this is a case where
   intuitive physics lets us down.A  The size of the opening affects
   the natural resonant frequency of the body, with a smaller opening
   giving a lower frequency.
   But I invite all you proper physicists out there to explain why!
   A more complex issue, but one which is related in that it also
   involves a mismatch between intuitive physics and the real thing:
   many people seem to believe that the lute soundboard should be
   flexible to allow it to vibrate, and that the more flexible it is
   the better the bass response.A  In fact I think - please contradict
   me if I'm wrong - that the frequencies which we are interested in
   are far too high to be aided by a floppy soundboard, which 

[LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute Album

[David Tayler]

   There's a little wheel inside with a very small potato bug.
   [1]http://recordinghacks.com/2008/11/01/chinese-ribbon-microphone-desig
   ns/
   Cheers,
   d
 __

   From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@gmail.com
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:56 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Scottish Lute Album
   What is a motor in terms of mic technology?
   On Nov 8, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   wrote:

  1x ribbon mic with custom ribbon and motor

   Ed Durbrow
   Saitama, Japan
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   [4]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   [5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

   Cheers,
   d
 __

   From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@gmail.com
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:56 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Scottish Lute Album
   What is a motor in terms of mic technology?
   On Nov 8, 2014, at 3:45 PM, David Tayler [6]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   wrote:

  1x ribbon mic with custom ribbon and motor

   Ed Durbrow
   Saitama, Japan
   [7]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   [8]https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   [9]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

   --

References

   1. http://recordinghacks.com/2008/11/01/chinese-ribbon-microphone-designs/
   2. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   3. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   4. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   6. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   7. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
   8. https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow
   9. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Scottish Lute Album

[David Tayler]

   Dear all, my new Album is now online.
   After putting it online, I asked my self, should I sell it or share it
   with my friends?
   Well, of course, sharing is the way to go!
   If you would like a free copy, just send me a message on FB and I will
   send you a download code.
   [1]CDBaby
   [2]Instant Encore
   Instant Encore has better preview files.
   CDBaby now offers FLAC files which sound as good as the CD
   Cheers,
   David T.

   --

References

   1. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/davidtayler2
   2. http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PIdQ15636


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Ren lute as sub for theorbo

[David Tayler]

   In contrast to some of the early works, this is not a work for which I
   would use a lute.
   Personally, I find that for this work I want to play in meantone. And
   meantone means big frets (major semitones) and small frets (minor
   semitones).
   And these tastini for pure meantone really work best on a middling to
   large size theorbo. For this piece, I use a single reentrant instrument
   in G because it works best for all the keys, but you could certainly go
   with an A instrument as well. A double reentrant instrument will have
   octave issues. It just sounds better in meantone, IMHO. OMD. W.
   dt
 __

   From: Herbert Ward wa...@physics.utexas.edu
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 6:32 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Ren lute as sub for theorbo
   I saw a production of Monteverdi's Return of Ulysses last night.
   In the orchestra was a theorbo.  At least I think it was a theorbo.
   It has a prominent place in the production, serving as the sole
   accompaniment for approximately six of the songs.
   Would it be feasible to replace the theorbo with a Renaissance
   lute in this opera?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute Album

[David Tayler]

   Dear Greet, there are several sources for the tune, of which the
   earliest is the Straloch ms I believe. Of course there was a lively
   wool trade between Scotland and and all of the areas of the
   Netherlands so they shared tunes as well. For this project, I
   arranged a set of variations for this tune, and I made a few small
   changes to the base text.
   d
 __

   From: Greet Schamp greet.sch...@gmail.com
   To: 'David Tayler' vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 1:40 PM
   Subject: RE: [LUTE] Scottish Lute Album
   Hello David,
   Sounds good, I'm intrigued by the title Ostend, as this is  a city at
   Flanders coast, in which Scottish manuscript did you find this?
   Greetings from
   Greet
   -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
   Van: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   Namens
   David Tayler
   Verzonden: vrijdag 7 november 2014 21:06
   Aan: lute
   Onderwerp: [LUTE] Scottish Lute Album
 Dear all, my new Album is now online.
 After putting it online, I asked my self, should I sell it or share
   it
 with my friends?
 Well, of course, sharing is the way to go!
 If you would like a free copy, just send me a message on FB and I
   will
 send you a download code.
 [1]CDBaby
 [2]Instant Encore
 Instant Encore has better preview files.
 CDBaby now offers FLAC files which sound as good as the CD
 Cheers,
 David T.
 --
   References
 1. [3]http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/davidtayler2
 2. [4]http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PIdQ15636
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/davidtayler2
   4. http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PIdQ15636
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute Album

[David Tayler]

   Yes, mysteriously the link was changed after it was online for an hour
   or so.
   Here's the correct Instant Encore link:
   [1]https://www.instantencore.com/ControlPanel/Music/cpAlbumChecklist.as
   px?PIdQ15636
   A lot of these companies resample the files and add compression and
   reverb, which is unfortunate because the dynamic range is lost (what
   little there is) so often the lute sounds very flat or compressed,
   Instant encore just adds a metatag to the MP3. Actually a lot of
   engineers add a lot of compression and then all of the piano dynamics
   disappear. The down side--you may laugh--is that if you listen in the
   car, you can't hear the quiet parts.
   And this is a major concern for marketing. I chose the bad in the car
   sound, but in a nice quiet room you can hear the dynamic shades and
   shapes.
   Recording setup: put up nine mics in my back room: 2x Senheiser MKH40,
   1x ribbon mic with custom ribbon and motor, 2x Schoeps MK41, 2x Schoeps
   MK2H, 2x MKH 80.
   Yes, there are CDs! And they sound a bit rounder and smoother and
   obviously the sound has not been compressed.
   [2]http://kunaki.com/sales.asp?PID=PX00V71UOU
   d
 __

   From: Jacob Johnson tmrguitar...@gmail.com
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 8:29 PM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Scottish Lute Album
   Hi David,
   I would love to hear your album. I checked the Instant Encore link and
   it didn't seem to work. The CD Baby samples sound great, though! Do you
   have any plans to make physical copies available in the future?
   Also, would you mind telling me about the recording setup you used?
   Thanks so much,
   Jacob Johnson
   Guitar/Lute
   On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 2:06 PM, David Tayler
   [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Dear all, my new Album is now online.
After putting it online, I asked my self, should I sell it or
 share it
with my friends?
Well, of course, sharing is the way to go!
If you would like a free copy, just send me a message on FB and I
 will
send you a download code.
[1]CDBaby
[2]Instant Encore
Instant Encore has better preview files.
CDBaby now offers FLAC files which sound as good as the CD
Cheers,
David T.
--
 References
1. [4]http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/davidtayler2
2. [5]http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PIdQ15636
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. 
https://www.instantencore.com/ControlPanel/Music/cpAlbumChecklist.aspx?PIdQ15636
   2. http://kunaki.com/sales.asp?PID=PX00V71UOU
   3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   4. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/davidtayler2
   5. http://www.instantencore.com/music/details.aspx?PIdQ15636
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bach Prelude in C Minor

[David Tayler]

   It's almost too good, the E Flat :)
   It would be easy to make two versions, and let the listener decide,
   maybe there's an app for that.
   dt
   PS Cool ambient lute~!
   d
 __

   From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   To:
   Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 1:00 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bach Prelude in C Minor
 Did I hear my name?A
 Good job by dt, putting up such a classic. We'll never get that
 personal favourite out of our heads, but that's why it makes for good
 comparisons.
 While we are comparing 999s:
 I recorded it again, two years ago (with quite a bit more reverb).
   Same
 instrument, but it has grown a lot since then. Here it is:
 [1][1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vDSC6YL2qRM
 Same recording with some added electronics from Matthew A (reverb to
 the max):
 [2][2]http://youtu.be/mPEuIw0A0X0
 I always think the E-flat is a typo, all right: inko, but to be
   honest,
 the ms is very clear and the E-flat is an E-flat, there are no two
   ways
 about it, so I'm probably stubbornly wrong. Still, I play the D as it
 makes more sense to me. I might change my mind over it a couple of
 times more, as hopefully I still have many years of playing this
   piece
 ahead of me.
 I play this piece from grand staff. I can adapt the basses to the
 instrument I happen to have in my lap, and I've added some fingerings
 (always easier in staff notation than tablature).
 This great lute virtuoso (?) has recorded some Calatayud and an
 arrangement of Train's latest hit this morning. No great virtuosity
 needed ...
 David (the other)
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 [3][3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [4]www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 On 5 October 2014 09:12, Dan Winheld [5][4]dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:
   Profound thanks to both Davids for their excellent renditions of
   this old fave. Van Ooijen really grabs the heart- ( viscera! Great
   gut string sound, great nuance of phrasing, too) Tayler gets very
   high  deeply into the intellect-  superb sensitivity!A  Both
   deeply moving. Thanks, guys.
   A I'll keep playing it on the d-minor Baroque lute- the original
   instrument for which it wasn't written. Never worked with the
   F-clef/Soprano clef grand staff format- looks to be even better for
   lutes- arch, Ren, Baroque, etc. than any other two staff format.
   Dan
   On 10/4/2014 11:17 AM, David Tayler wrote:
   A  A  For your weekend viewing (should you be so inclined) Bach's
   two minute
   A  A  wonder, the Prelude in C Minor BWV 999, pour le luth
   A  A  [1]Bach Prelude for lute BWV 999
   A  A  dt
   A  A  --
   References
   A  A  1. [6][5]http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vDSC6YL2qRM
 2. [8]http://youtu.be/mPEuIw0A0X0
 3. mailto:[9]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 4. [10]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 5. mailto:[11]dwinh...@lmi.net
 6. [12]http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc
 7. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?vDSC6YL2qRM
   2. http://youtu.be/mPEuIw0A0X0
   3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   5. http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?vDSC6YL2qRM
   8. http://youtu.be/mPEuIw0A0X0
   9. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  10. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
  11. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
  12. http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Bach Prelude in C Minor

[David Tayler]

   For your weekend viewing (should you be so inclined) Bach's two minute
   wonder, the Prelude in C Minor BWV 999, pour le luth
   [1]Bach Prelude for lute BWV 999
   dt

   --

References

   1. http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Seven courses versus eight.

[David Tayler]

   I've slightly revised my views on this, I think you can make a case
   that there are a couple of important pieces that are conceived in
   8-course tuning, but the number is small.
   It would seem on the basis of contrapuntal analysis that the version of
   Lacrimae of Dowland in G Minor was written for 8 course, as well as his
   other early work in Francisque. The problem is that in the span of just
   a few years, you start to see 9 courses and ten courses, and there's no
   way to match works with specific lutes within a short span of time.
   Also, there's many examples where you can play the F fretted. I think
   you can argue that there were early adopters, just like today, so there
   was a lot of overlap.
   So you can almost always use the 7c for the eight, but the fact is, the
   8c is almost always more resonant. You could argue that the 7 and 6
   sound more early, and I think that is for sure true. When in doubt,
   buy two, that is always the way of the LBA (lute buyers addiction).
   Also in terms of LBA, maximize the usefulness of your collection. So
   for example if you want to a play lute duets a tone apart, make one of
   the lutes a 6 or a 7c, and the other an 8 or 10, and use the lower one
   for English and French lute songs, as well as 8c-10c literature. It
   isn't like having two matched 7c for Pickering, but it keeps the LBS
   under control.
   8c is very popular--there's a reason for that. Sort of like a minivan
   with the sport suspension.
   dt
   On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:45 PM, Herbert Ward
   wa...@physics.utexas.edu wrote:
   What is the extent and nature of the historical
   liturature which is playable on an 8-course
   Renassiance lute, but not on a 7-course?
   In other words, is a 7-course instrument a
   workable subsitute for an 8-course?
   This assumes the 7-course lutenist is willing
   to retune his 7th course between pieces.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bach Prelude in C Minor

[David Tayler]

Thanks Tom,
I enclose a link to the ms. I think it is in the realm of guesswork what it was 
composed for, but, since so many people have recorded it on the lute and the 
guitar, this seems to be an indication that it lies well on the instrument. 
Sounds great on the harpsichord and lautenwerk. You can play it in several 
different tunings, and the piece sounds very different in different tunings, 
you can hear Hopkinson Smith's classic recording in a different tuning (just a 
picture, alas, but a very nice picture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzVEe0ObiLE

As far as the source goes, I just played it off the manuscript, which was how 
many players back then played, it is in keyboard notation but you will notice 
that the top clef is in soprano clef, which is one of the most common clefs and 
eliminates a lot of the ledger lines:

http://www.jsbach.net/images/bwv999.jpg

You will notice someone has written an x in the penultimate bar, presumably 
to mark a wrong note. There are little dots to mark repeated bars.

Other versions by famous virtuosos of the lute include this marvelous rendition 
by David van Ooijen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCcvtGdAJ18

The Big E Flat:
A number of the versions change the low E Flat in m23 to a D. The E Flat is 
very dissonant, but it does spell out a 6/5 chord (with a raised 6)
E flat-G-Bflat_C Sharp, a chord that Bach often used as a substitute 
Neopolitan, so I left it as it is in the ms. It could be there is another 
version that has not the E Flat, so it would be cool to compare them if someone 
has it. The E flat resolves the suspended 7th of the previous E flat in m15 to 
a C sharp.
I cued up the exotic E Flat here
http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc?t=1m1s

If it's a mistake don't tell me :) Well, tell me. Fun, anyway.

And since you mentioned Gerwig (and I'm not old enough to have heard him play, 
well, almost, yikes)
You can hear quite a bit on Amazon (firmly in the E Flat camp)
http://www.amazon.com/Prelude-C-Minor-BWV-999/dp/B003TZCDHQ
Great performance by Gerwig.

dt








On Sat, 10/4/14, Heartistry Old t...@heartistrymusic.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Bach Prelude in C Minor
 To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Date: Saturday, October 4, 2014, 12:17 PM
 
 Beautiful!  
 Thanks.
 Can you tell me something of the history of this piece?
 i.e. was it composed in keyboard staff notation, then
 intabulated by somebody else?  Was it written for a
 particular player or for a particular occasion?  Are
 there any clear answers here, or mainly speculation?
   BTW, Walther Gerwig's recording of this helped get me
 interested in lutes.
   Thanks in advance,
  Tom
 
 Tom Draughon
 Heartistry Music
 www.heartistry.com
 715-682-9362
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Oct 4, 2014, at 1:17 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 wrote:
  
    For your weekend viewing (should you
 be so inclined) Bach's two minute
    wonder, the Prelude in C Minor BWV
 999, pour le luth
    [1]Bach Prelude for lute BWV 999
    dt
  
    --
  
  References
  
    1. http://youtu.be/FnpaMm_2QYc
  
  
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

 __

   Well, if the surviving instruments are, as you say, not reliable, they
   are still the most reliable of the information we have. However, the
   surviving instruments are IMHO rare, valuable, informative, vivid and
   concise. Like any document or postcard from the past, they need to be
   interpreted.
   As for labels, I see that as the root of the problem, and essentially a
   reinterpretation of the based based on the ever changing tastes ofthe
   present.
   People like the archlute-theorbo duality. It isn't historical, but
   people like it. The terms are partially historical, of course, they
   just create an artificial duality. I don't like it, but that's just
   because it think it filters out a lot of possibilities.
   I think one could come up with a better label system, but that isn't
   going to happen because the lute business is a market driven business,
   it is not an academic enterprise.
   In the case of Weiss, you have conflicting information, Weiss's letter,
   and the surviving parts. Take away the labels, and the problem goes
   away. Mostly.
   dt
   From: jean-michel Catherinot jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:18 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   If you read the previous messages, and specially, the one from Arthur
   Ness, you may notice that some of the arciliuto obligato parts in
   Dresden opera would be by Weiss's own hand. So it seems that arciliuto
   was eventually practiced by him, at least on stage: it looks that
   arciliuto was not an ennemy for him! Concerning the instruments,
   luthiers are more competent: but I've seen some in Europe (it was easy
   to have in your hands the instruments of the Paris conservatoire at the
   time, and I helped to draw the plans of some of them, or in Bruxelles
   and Nueremberg), and not many in their initial shape (many transformed
   in guitar, shortened, with guitar bridge, ...). So surviving
   instruments are not such a reliable sourceAnyway, the main
   information in this letter is that at least 3 types of instruments
   exist, and different from each others, at  Weiss' time: lute, arciliuto
   and theorbo. And it is not a question of label, it's a question of
   tuning and quantity of noise it produces!
   Le Mardi 28 janvier 2014 2h41, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net a
   ecrit :
   __
 This is a very interesting quote because it falls in between the
 classical divisions of prescriptive and descriptive. So it is sort of
 descriptive in that Weiss is setting up a straw lute argument by
 describing and then downgrading the other (non-Weiss) instruments,
 and then it is both self-descriptive and prescriptive in that he goes
 on to describe the superior instrument, which of course he would be
 compelled by the rules of rhetoric to claim to have partially
   invented.
 You could argue based on this quote that no one played the gallichon,
 but of course that won't fly nowadays.
 In analyzing the quote, there is no way to know if it is true or not,
 but there is certainly no reason to doubt that Weiss had all or some
 custom instruments. However, there is also no reason to doubt that
   any
 of his competitors would not have had custom instruments, which would
 render his entire argument moot. Certainly it was standard procedure
 for someone to claim that their method was the right one and
   everyone
 else had it wrong, and musicologists rightly take such statements in
 that context. So for example, most German composers claim that they
 brought French music to Germany. And therefore those statements are
   all
 pretty much suspect.
 But--it certainly helps make the case that professionals had
   custom
 instruments and custom tunings, which would mean that new labels must
 be invented and applied (the Weiss Theorbo, etc.) or one could stay
 away from the labels
 d
 In a letter to Johann Mattheson written in 1723 Weiss describes the
 lutes he used:
   a|.I am of the opinion that after the keyboard there is no more
   perfect instrument than this one (the lute) especially for
   Galanterie. The theorbo and Arciliuto, which are quite different
   even from each other, cannot be used at all in Galanterie piecesa|I
   have adapted one of my instruments for accompaniment in the
   orchestra and in church. It has the same size, length, power and
   resonance of the veritable theorbo and has the same effect, only
   that the tuning is different. This instrument I use on these
   occasions. But in chamber music, I assure you that a cantata a voce
   sola, next to the harpsichord, accompanied by the lute

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

   That's an interesting set of labels but it doesn't cover all the
   historical cases. So for example, some large lutes had double strings.
   Mostly these lutes have disappeared. However, if anyone chooses to make
   a concordance nowadays to sort out the old lutes, I can see why one
   would want to do that. You could also have two types of every
   instrument.
   dt
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:59 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   This doesn't address the point I made to you: that the fundamental
   difference between the archlute and the theorbo is in the manner of
   stringing - theorbos have the top one or two courses lowered from
   nominal; archlutes do not. If you don't think this is the case then, to
   repeat, what's your evidence (ie not merely simple assertion) for
   supposing otherwise?
   Further, it is widely understood that there is great diversity in the
   configuration and shape of these instruments - which is why it is
   better to identify an instrument in relation to its manner of tuning
   rather than to any particular physical feature.
   MH
 __

   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 1:16
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 Well, the evidence is in the museums--there are more than two types
   of
 instruments. Therefore, any attempt to categorize the historical
   lutes
 as two types does not reflect the historical record. If you look at
   all
 the surviving lutes (I haven't seen all of them, but a pretty good
 percentage over the last 40 years) you will see that most of them are
 different and there are many types and variations.
 The label problem is not limited to lutes, it is simply the modern
 opposite of historical practice.
 The biggest difference between the way we look at things and the way
   a
 16th or 17th century person would look at things is that we prefer
 uniformity and they preferred diversity. So the modern take on old
 instruments is simply a form of acculturation based on a 20th or 21st
 century point of view. Or you could call it preferential selection,
 like collecting art works or favorite music works. Preferential
 selection--collecting things you like or think belong together, like
   a
 suite of dances-- is of course historical, just not the way we do it.
 Another way to look at it: if one labels as an archlute an
   instrument
 with a certain size tuning, you instantly create such an instrument,
 and possibly exclude others.
 However, if you use a neutral label, you can describe an instrument
 type. So pluckies, as folksy as it sounds, is historically a much
 more accurate term., and does not cause the disappearance of an
 instrument or group of instruments, like the double strung theorbo.
 One could try to argue that the terms are highly specific, and I
   would
 then simply direct people to the the lists of CDs over the last forty
 years, and you can see different fads about what is an archlute,
 chitarrone and so on. It clearly changes over time because it is an
 ongoing process of acculturation, or follows market driven ideas of
 what will sell or what is popular. And there is nothing wrong with
 that, it just is pretty far from the original sources.
 One of the surprising things about the internet is that now a lot of
 unusual and possibly historical instrument designs are resurfacing,
 owing to these same market forces.
 dt
   __
 From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 To: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute
   [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 You write that
   'The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree
   interchangeable.'
   What's your evidence for this? The two instruments were tuned in
 different ways: theorboes having  re-entrant tuning - single
   re-entrant
 if small enough or double reentrant if large; whereas archlutes
 retained the highest course at the upper octave.
 Or are you suggesting the occasional possibility that a writer may
   have
 used the word archlute in a generic sense: implying any lute
   instrument
 with extended basses?
 MH
   __
 From: David Tayler [4]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: lute [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
 Subject

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

 __

   a) Have read that (read it when it came out, yikes) and did not agree
   with it then and don't agree with it now. Especially the part on the
   chitarrone. You could certainly retitle it putting labels on lutes,
   and the research, for the time, was good. But left out lots.
   aa) Musicological articles have a shelf life of twenty years. Sad but
   true.
   b) Tablature is a form of musical notation and not necessarily a
   definition of tuning. Those trained in a fixed pitch environment will
   find this odd, but those trained in a transposing environment will find
   this fits.
   I just look at it differently. No biggie.
   dt
   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de; David Tayler
   vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 3:35 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 Have a look at:
 a) the early sources (Bob Spencer's famous paper still represents a
 good summary [1]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/spencer/html/index.html
   );
 b) tablatures identified for the two instruments and the tuning
 required
 MH
   __
 From: R. Mattes [2]r...@mh-freiburg.de
 To: Martyn Hodgson [3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; David Tayler
 [4]vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 11:22
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:59:29 + (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote
  This doesn't address the point I made to you: that the fundamental
 difference between the archlute and the theorbo is in the manner
  of  stringing - theorbos have the top one or two courses lowered
  from  nominal; archlutes do not.
 Yes, that's how you happen to match a name with a feature set.
 The open question is: can we assume that this mapping is historic?
 Let me just list some of the possible features that could come to
   mind:
 1 reentrant tuning
 2 low ambitus
 3 tuning in vielle tone (even if reentrant)
 4 extended neck
 5 enough open bass strings to put (most of) the bass line
   on open strings
 6 use of the instrument (orchestra vs. chamber vs. solo)
 Your claim is that feature 1 alone defined what was called a
   tiorba?
 IMHO this is wishfull thinking - esp. in places/times where there is
 a mixup of instruments used.
 Have a look at the early french theorbe sources (the first BC
 methods).
 It's pretty obvious that these prints where meant for instruments in
 vielle tone (I hope we can all agree on this). So, here the
 distinguishing
 feature was probably feature 4 and _not_ feature 1. If you look at
   the
 so-called theorbo book from the Goess collection you'll find a
 irritating
 mixture of pieces for reentrant and non-reentrant tuning (some might
 even
 be written for single-reentrant tuning).
 Also, let's not forget that feature 1 is only really relevant/obvious
 to the
 player himself - any observer would probably just use the name most
 common
 to him for an instrument with those _visual_ features.
 How do you think Weiss called his instrument? If his director
   asked:
 Silvius, could we try this aria with you playing fundament on your
 theorbo?,
 o you really think he would reply: that's not a theorbo, it's a
 Weissophone!?
 With all their love for classifications the baroque has an amazing
 tendency
 to use terms as hypernyms. So, by he beginning of the galant style
 anything
 with a low ambitus and/or an extended neck might be labeled theorbo
 (and
 I have a nagging feeling that even a gallichon with extended neck was
 called theorbo)
 HTH Ralf Mattes
  If you don't think this is the
  case then, to  repeat, what's your evidence (ie not merely simple
  assertion) for  supposing otherwise?  Further, it is widely
  understood that there is great diversity in the  configuration and
  shape of these instruments - which is why it is  better to identify
  an instrument in relation to its manner of tuning  rather than to
  any particular physical feature.  MH
 __
 
 From: David Tayler [1][6]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: lute [2][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2014, 1:16
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   Well, the evidence is in the museums--there are more than two
 types
 of
   instruments. Therefore, any attempt to categorize the
   historical
 lutes
   as two types does not reflect the historical record. If you
  look at  all

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

   I don't see that staff notation is peculiar; it was a standard form of
   notation. It is elegant and descriptive, and the choice of brilliant
   composers. There are even accounts in letters and diaries saying that
   it is better than tablature, presumably because it is more efficient in
   showing the individual voices, or as part of the basso continuo
   movement, or to parallel the viol, and so on. Many more reasons as
   well, such as ornamentation.
   Mersenne's quote: one can interpret all the square data that does not
   fit into the round hole as errors, but because of the superfluity of
   square data I think it makes more sense to consider the terms
   high-degree interchangeable.
   Absence of viel ton: if music is written in mensural notation, there is
   no way to know if it is viel ton or not in many cases, so the absence
   is evidence only that ppl stopped using tab for some of the newer
   styles of music. Certainly the tuning had some serious competition.
   dt
 __

   From: jean-michel Catherinot jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com
   To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Martyn
   Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:14 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 Yes: Zamboni in tablature., but indeed you know that!. I consider
   that
 most of the arciliuto music is written in staff notation, may be this
 is a particularity of the instrument, and there is no doubt that
   tuning
 is not re-entrant (just have a look to Hasse's Cleofide, for
   arciliuto
 and compare with obligato parts for tiorba in Conti's Davide: ambitus
 and tessiture). . In staff notation, you mat consult, as I said,
 obligato parts  in Hasse's  and Haendel's operas (and many others it
 seems, I'm trying to list them), and the concerti from Harrach
 collection. It is not impossible that Zamboni was the composer of the
 solo sonata for arciliuto and the two aconcertinos' for arciliuto
   with
 two violins and organ (all anonymous and in staff notation) from the
 Harrach library formerly owned by Robert Spencer and now at the Royal
 Academy of Music, London; another similar anonymous concerto for
 arciliuto is among the newly-discovered items of chamber music at
 Rohrau.
 Concerning Mersenne, it is quite clear in french that while renaming
 the picture untitled tuorbe in archiluth, he corrects a mistake
   he
 has  previously done (and he says explicitly that): and he gives
   quite
 clearly the tuning for thA(c)orbe (re-entrant, in A) and the two
 tunings for archiluth in G and A.
 Concerning the use of archiluth in France (this is not our subject,
 but...): at first 2 points, I don't know any tablature evidence of
   the
 use of vieil ton after ca1640. If this type of lute would be used,
   it's
 very strange that there is no written music for it (not a note). The
 only strange  book of Delair gives the impression that the tuning
   could
 be not re-entrant: but it's a quite basic book, which only gives
 solution for chords, not to play a B.C., and also dedicated to the
 harpsichord (did Delair even play the theorbo?). The others
   (Grenerin,
 Fleury,...) work with re-entrant tuning, even if the solutions could
   be
 strange for us (but what about the guitar?).
 I think the discontinuity you quote about the lines, with wide laps,
   is
 inherent to the theorbo. In very clear solo theorbo pieces, with no
 doubt on tuning as Saizenay, you find those strange laps, even in de
 VisA(c)e. It is also very common in guitar pieces, (have a look to
 Monica Hall's  site). And even  changing the tuning doesn't solve the
 problem: you allways find those dicontinuities. This begins with
 Piccinini from place to place,  but the campanella parts prove that
   his
 tuning was completely re-entrant.
 Le Mardi 28 janvier 2014 18h26, R. Mattes [1]r...@mh-freiburg.de a
 A(c)crit :
 On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 17:10:18 + (GMT), Martyn Hodgson wrote
 
 
  I'm sorry you find Bob Spencer's paper so very poor.
 No need to be sorry, esp. since I don't find Spencer's paper very
 poor
 (where did I write
 that?). I only tied to say that it a) shows it's age b) seems to be
   an
 overview-type of
 publication and hence tends to over-generalize c) seems to often
   prove
 my
 points more than yours.
  My point about the tablatures (rather than staff notation) is that
  it is with these that we find an unequivocal indication of the
  tuning required for a particular named instrument.
 And my point is that a lot of the tablatures I kow of and played
 are much less unequivocal in indicating the required tuning - just
 as an example there seem to be some rather equivocal places 

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

   Well, the evidence is in the museums--there are more than two types of
   instruments. Therefore, any attempt to categorize the historical lutes
   as two types does not reflect the historical record. If you look at all
   the surviving lutes (I haven't seen all of them, but a pretty good
   percentage over the last 40 years) you will see that most of them are
   different and there are many types and variations.
   The label problem is not limited to lutes, it is simply the modern
   opposite of historical practice.
   The biggest difference between the way we look at things and the way a
   16th or 17th century person would look at things is that we prefer
   uniformity and they preferred diversity. So the modern take on old
   instruments is simply a form of acculturation based on a 20th or 21st
   century point of view. Or you could call it preferential selection,
   like collecting art works or favorite music works. Preferential
   selection--collecting things you like or think belong together, like a
   suite of dances-- is of course historical, just not the way we do it.
   Another way to look at it: if one labels as an archlute an instrument
   with a certain size tuning, you instantly create such an instrument,
   and possibly exclude others.
   However, if you use a neutral label, you can describe an instrument
   type. So pluckies, as folksy as it sounds, is historically a much
   more accurate term., and does not cause the disappearance of an
   instrument or group of instruments, like the double strung theorbo.
   One could try to argue that the terms are highly specific, and I would
   then simply direct people to the the lists of CDs over the last forty
   years, and you can see different fads about what is an archlute,
   chitarrone and so on. It clearly changes over time because it is an
   ongoing process of acculturation, or follows market driven ideas of
   what will sell or what is popular. And there is nothing wrong with
   that, it just is pretty far from the original sources.
   One of the surprising things about the internet is that now a lot of
   unusual and possibly historical instrument designs are resurfacing,
   owing to these same market forces.
   dt
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:39 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   You write that
 'The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.'
What's your evidence for this? The two instruments were tuned in
   different ways: theorboes having  re-entrant tuning - single re-entrant
   if small enough or double reentrant if large; whereas archlutes
   retained the highest course at the upper octave.
   Or are you suggesting the occasional possibility that a writer may have
   used the word archlute in a generic sense: implying any lute instrument
   with extended basses?
   MH
 __

   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
 The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
 That is, they are not low or medium, and they are also not completely
 interchangeable (since they are sometimes used together). One could
 argue that they are medium instead of high, but it would be
 difficult to show this based on the sources.
 The correlation is the inverse of the degree, so in other words it is
 possible that the difference in terms may mean something, but of a
 low order of probability.
 Because of the degree order, it isn't really possible to assign uses
   in
 a general way, only in specific cases. For every case, there will be
   an
 exception. There are certainly some interesting specific cases. So
 either what we call the theorbo or the archlute could be used to
   play
 just the single notes of a bass part, or chords, or continuo, or any
   of
 a million shades in between, as well as the instruments of the lute
 family that we do not normally include in our modern designation of
 archlute and theorbo--that is, instruments without modern labels.
 However, in these specific cases, like obbligato parts, there is no
 reason to believe that there was one type of archlute, so then you
   get
 into label variations. The variations are also the inverse of
 correlation--that is, to make a conclusion about how an instrument
   was
 used, you would have to reconcile the variants.
 There are a few pieces where you can make a correlation based on
   range,
 but these would have to be fully written out obbligato parts, not
   bass
 parts, and even these could well be played on other

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

 __

   This is a very interesting quote because it falls in between the
   classical divisions of prescriptive and descriptive. So it is sort of
   descriptive in that Weiss is setting up a straw lute argument by
   describing and then downgrading the other (non-Weiss) instruments,
   and then it is both self-descriptive and prescriptive in that he goes
   on to describe the superior instrument, which of course he would be
   compelled by the rules of rhetoric to claim to have partially invented.
   You could argue based on this quote that no one played the gallichon,
   but of course that won't fly nowadays.
   In analyzing the quote, there is no way to know if it is true or not,
   but there is certainly no reason to doubt that Weiss had all or some
   custom instruments. However, there is also no reason to doubt that any
   of his competitors would not have had custom instruments, which would
   render his entire argument moot. Certainly it was standard procedure
   for someone to claim that their method was the right one and everyone
   else had it wrong, and musicologists rightly take such statements in
   that context. So for example, most German composers claim that they
   brought French music to Germany. And therefore those statements are all
   pretty much suspect.
   But--it certainly helps make the case that professionals had custom
   instruments and custom tunings, which would mean that new labels must
   be invented and applied (the Weiss Theorbo, etc.) or one could stay
   away from the labels
   d
   In a letter to Johann Mattheson written in 1723 Weiss describes the
   lutes he used:

 a|.I am of the opinion that after the keyboard there is no more
 perfect instrument than this one (the lute) especially for
 Galanterie. The theorbo and Arciliuto, which are quite different
 even from each other, cannot be used at all in Galanterie piecesa|I
 have adapted one of my instruments for accompaniment in the
 orchestra and in church. It has the same size, length, power and
 resonance of the veritable theorbo and has the same effect, only
 that the tuning is different. This instrument I use on these
 occasions. But in chamber music, I assure you that a cantata a voce
 sola, next to the harpsichord, accompanied by the lute has a much
 better effect than with the Arciliuto or even theorbo, since these
 two latter instruments are ordinarily played with the nails and
 produce in close proximity a coarse, harsh sound.

   Le Samedi 25 janvier 2014 10h45, Martyn Hodgson
   hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk a A(c)crit :
 You write that
   'The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree
   interchangeable.'
   What's your evidence for this? The two instruments were tuned in
 different ways: theorboes having  re-entrant tuning - single
   re-entrant
 if small enough or double reentrant if large; whereas archlutes
 retained the highest course at the upper octave.
 Or are you suggesting the occasional possibility that a writer may
   have
 used the word archlute in a generic sense: implying any lute
   instrument
 with extended basses?
 MH
   __
 From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, 24 January 2014, 19:14
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
   That is, they are not low or medium, and they are also not
   completely
   interchangeable (since they are sometimes used together). One could
   argue that they are medium instead of high, but it would be
   difficult to show this based on the sources.
   The correlation is the inverse of the degree, so in other words it
   is
   possible that the difference in terms may mean something, but of
   a
   low order of probability.
   Because of the degree order, it isn't really possible to assign
   uses
 in
   a general way, only in specific cases. For every case, there will
   be
 an
   exception. There are certainly some interesting specific cases. So
   either what we call the theorbo or the archlute could be used to
 play
   just the single notes of a bass part, or chords, or continuo, or
   any
 of
   a million shades in between, as well as the instruments of the lute
   family that we do not normally include in our modern designation of
   archlute and theorbo--that is, instruments without modern labels.
   However, in these specific cases, like obbligato parts, there is no
   reason to believe that there was one type of archlute, so then you
 get
   into label variations. The variations are also the inverse of
   correlation--that is, to make a conclusion about how an instrument

[LUTE] Re: archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1

[David Tayler]

   The terms arciliuto and tiorba are high-degree interchangeable.
   That is, they are not low or medium, and they are also not completely
   interchangeable (since they are sometimes used together). One could
   argue that they are medium instead of high, but it would be
   difficult to show this based on the sources.
   The correlation is the inverse of the degree, so in other words it is
   possible that the difference in terms may mean something, but of a
   low order of probability.
   Because of the degree order, it isn't really possible to assign uses in
   a general way, only in specific cases. For every case, there will be an
   exception. There are certainly some interesting specific cases. So
   either what we call the theorbo or the archlute could be used to play
   just the single notes of a bass part, or chords, or continuo, or any of
   a million shades in between, as well as the instruments of the lute
   family that we do not normally include in our modern designation of
   archlute and theorbo--that is, instruments without modern labels.
   However, in these specific cases, like obbligato parts, there is no
   reason to believe that there was one type of archlute, so then you get
   into label variations. The variations are also the inverse of
   correlation--that is, to make a conclusion about how an instrument was
   used, you would have to reconcile the variants.
   There are a few pieces where you can make a correlation based on range,
   but these would have to be fully written out obbligato parts, not bass
   parts, and even these could well be played on other instruments.
   If you look at list label-sets, like encyclopedias or books of
   measurements, each instrument is assigned a label; however, there is no
   other way to make a list, so there is no reason to believe that the
   label applied reflected common practice--which explains why the
   different label-lists use different labels. You can't have a list
   composed of duplicates. This explains why the lists exist, and also
   explains why the lists are different.
   20th and 21st century mindsets require a label for every instrument;
   however, the renaissance and baroque mindsets required a small number
   of labels for a large number of instruments.
   By applying the small number of labels categorically, the effect is
   simply to exclude the larger number of instruments from the general
   discussion. For example the chitarrone has disappeared, because its
   label was changed. Same is true for the viola.
   To exist in the renaissance and baroque mindset, one must learn to
   think in the instrumentarium of a small number of terms and a large
   number of instruments. And within these terms, family has priority, So
   lute or flute or viola first refers to a family of instruments,
   and terms like archlute have a familial tendency. Erase that, and the
   interconnections disappear.
   That's why we have fewer lute types today than in the past, as well as
   fewer instrument types, with the exception of sideways marketing,
   where an instrument is rediscovered or elevated for marketing purposes
   in a crowded subfield. Marketing definitely creates more labels.
   dt
 __

   From: Gary R. Boye boy...@appstate.edu
   To: jean-michel Catherinot jeanmichel.catheri...@yahoo.com; Martyn
   Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de; Ed
   Durbrow edurb...@gmail.com; LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 6:19 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] archlute/theorbo in Corelli's Op. 1
   Dear Jean Michel,
   Yes; interesting! We are only talking about Corelli's Op. 1 (Opp. 2-4
   all call for archlute according to surviving editions--no mention of
   theorbo there). I suppose this could either reflect common practice in
   a city (Rome vs. Bologna/Venice) or publisher preference. Or just
   happenstance--what editions the publishers happened to copy. The raw
   numbers:
   There are 15 known editions of Op. 1, published between 1681-1735.
   Archlute is called for in the first edition in Rome, as well as 2 other
   Roman editions, 1 edition from Modena, and 3 editions from London.
   Theorbo (tiorba) is called for in 7 editions, published between
   1682-1707. 5 of the editions are from Bologna (printed by G. Monti or
   Silvani) and 2 are from Venice.
   There is an additional Dutch edition by Roger that calls for both
   instruments in a catalog published later. This seems to support
   Martyn's statement about different uses for the instruments in this
   music (violone vs. figured bass parts).
   There are some that see a very limited role for the archlute in
   general, mainly in Rome. But in addition to Corelli, the archlute was
   called for in title pages of other's music outside of Rome more often
   than in Rome itself:
   London 21
   Rome 10
   Amsterdam 10
   Venice 6
   Bologna 5
   Modena 3
   Antwerp 1
 

[LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum

[David Tayler]

   Maybe this is the happiest music :)
   d
 __

   From: Christopher Stetson christophertstet...@gmail.com
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:21 PM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum
   Could there be happier music?
   Chris.
   On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:53 PM, David Tayler
   [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Thanks Rocky!
d

 __
From: Rockford Mjos [2]rm...@comcast.net
To: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Cc: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:23 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum

  I love the idea and the performance!
  -- Rocky
  On Jan 21, 2014, at 3:01 AM, David Tayler wrote:

 [1][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1

  --
  To get on or off this list see list information at

[2][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
 References
1. [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
2. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   2. mailto:rm...@comcast.net
   3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum--sources for pizza.

[David Tayler]

 __

   The Church is St Marks Lutheran in San Francisco
   The present church was constructed on two lots on O'Farrell between
   Franklin and Gough that were bought for $17,500.  A German-American
   architect, Henry Geilfuss,  designed a red brick church in a blend of
   Romanesque style and Gothic elements. Three hundred fifty community
   leaders and onlookers witnessed the cornerstone laying of the new St.
   Markus, the largest German church in California. The church, which cost
   $56,000 to build, was dedicated on March 10, 1895. A Schoenstein organ
   and chandelier from Germany, donated by sugar tycoon Claus Spreckels,
   were transferred from the Geary St. church to the new St. Markus.
   During the dedication ceremony St. Mark's survived the first of many
   earthquakes.
   The name on the cornerstone, St. Markus Kirche, reflected the
   congregation's German heritage. The church is a blend of Romanesque and
   Gothic elements of pointed gables and arches, pier buttresses, and a
   Rose Window. The red brick is set off by details of buff-colored brick
   and Bedford stone. The lower tower has an octagonal base with a conical
   roof, and the higher tower is squared with four upper corner turrets
   and a pyramidal roof.
   d
   From: Nancy Carlin na...@nancycarlinassociates.com
   To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:42 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum--sources for pizza.
   If I am not mistaken it's a church near the University of California
   Berkeley campus where a lot of concerts are held.  I've always thought
   of it as designed to appeal to the transplants from the Eastern US and
   it reminds me of big churches in the Boston area.
   Nancy
Thank you - that is very interesting and helpful. Loved the Schmelzer
   and some of your other videos especaially the one with the dancers.  It
   is amazing what's on Youtube!  Could spend all night watching them.
   
Another non sequitur -  I was curious to know what sort of church is
   is where you are performing.  It is rather different in style from
   English churches I am familiar with
   
Monica
   
Monica
   
   
- Original Message - From: David Tayler
   [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:52 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum--sources for pizza.
   
   
 Chords and plucking on the viol:
 Well, there are a few different ways to answer that.
 The first is that the difference between the lute and the viol
   would
 have been much less than it is today. that is, the lute would have
 played more melodies and the gamba would play more chords.
 The second is that etymologically, the instruments were considered
   two
 sides of the same coin, so viola was string instrument; viola
   da
 mano was the lute (called vihuela in Spanish, viol in other
   languages)
 and viola arco, gamba and so on was the same instrument,
   another
 way.
 And then we have the iconographic evidence, some of which may be
 fanciful of course.
 For this video, we adapted and recreated some techniques based on
 contemporaneous sources: Tobias Hume's The First Part of Ayres
   (1605):
 the player is asked in The Souldiers Song to aPlay three letters
   with
 your Fingers', and in Harke, Harke to Play nine letters with
   your
 finger.  And in  Monteverdi's Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda
 (1624),  the players are directed to pluck the strings with two
 fingers.
 Farina in  Capriccio stravagante, 1627, directs the violinist to
   play
 the violin like a guitar.
 We also use full bowed harmonies in the style of the lirone on the
 viol, because the lirone developed out of styles that were already
   used
 for the gamba.
 dt
 You can see this lirone style here:
 [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfoPVO4BsM
 They were a lively bunch, way back when!
 dt
__
   
 From: Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 To: David Tayler [5]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Cc: Lutelist [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] A Christmas Contrafactum
 Great performance and very interesting - especially the lyrics
   which
 seem to
 have been culled from different parts of the canon.
 A bit of a non-sequitur but how common was it for the viola da
   gamba to
 pluck rather than bow the bass line?  What is the evidence is
 thereis
 there any?
 Monica
 - Original Message -
 From: David Tayler [1][7]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: lute [2][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:01 AM
 Subject: [LUTE

[LUTE] Re: body fret re-glue

[David Tayler]

 __

   I always keep some bamboo skewers handy for small repairs, just as
   David v.O. suggests. If you have some dried glue left on the
   soundboard, and you don't want to try to remove it, you can make some
   very thin grooves in the back of the fret before gluing it. Otherwise
   it may (will) pop off again.
   Of course you can also imagine that the HIP Deities are informing you
   that body frets were not very common on lutes  and go fret-loose and
   fancy free.
   dt
 My way:
 - bamboo skewer
 - white glue (breaks off easily when there's need to remove or
   reglue)
 - eraser between fret and strings to press fret
 David
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 [1][1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 On 17 January 2014 22:16, Leonard Williams [3][2]arc...@verizon.net
 wrote:
   Sorry if this is redundantd-!eP:e had trouble getting mail through.
   A Wrong
   address?
   Anyway:
   A  A  A  A  Back in the fall there was a discussion about material
   for body frets.
   How about glue?
   A  A  A  A  I just lost (then found) a fret and will need to
   reattach it. A Is there a
   way to clamp it without removing all my strings? A Ie thinking of
   keeping
   the lute in the case with a weight across the strings at the fret.
   A Is
   this do-able, or even advisable?
   Thanks and regards!
   Leonard Williams
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. mailto:[4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 2. [5]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
 3. mailto:[6]arc...@verizon.net
 4. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:arc...@verizon.net
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   6. mailto:arc...@verizon.net
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] A Christmas Contrafactum

[David Tayler]

   One of the interesting features of Early Music is the way in which
   material was recycled. When I first saw the Contrafactum for
   Monteverdi's Chiome d'oro (for Easter), I remember wishing there was
   one for Christmas. But then I figured, how hard could it be to write a
   Latin version? Pretty hard, as it turns out, so I had a friend help. dt
   [1]aP: Claudio Monteverdi: Puer Natus (Chiome d'oro); Voices of Music -
   YouTube

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1

   Hidden links:
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum

[David Tayler]

   Thanks Rocky!
   d
 __

   From: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:23 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum
   I love the idea and the performance!
   -- Rocky
   On Jan 21, 2014, at 3:01 AM, David Tayler wrote:
[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: A Christmas Contrafactum--sources for pizza.

[David Tayler]

   Chords and plucking on the viol:
   Well, there are a few different ways to answer that.
   The first is that the difference between the lute and the viol would
   have been much less than it is today. that is, the lute would have
   played more melodies and the gamba would play more chords.
   The second is that etymologically, the instruments were considered two
   sides of the same coin, so viola was string instrument; viola da
   mano was the lute (called vihuela in Spanish, viol in other languages)
   and viola arco, gamba and so on was the same instrument, another
   way.
   And then we have the iconographic evidence, some of which may be
   fanciful of course.
   For this video, we adapted and recreated some techniques based on
   contemporaneous sources: Tobias Hume's The First Part of Ayres (1605):
   the player is asked in The Souldiers Song to aPlay three letters with
   your Fingers', and in Harke, Harke to Play nine letters with your
   finger.  And in  Monteverdi's Combattimento di Tancredi e Clorinda
   (1624),  the players are directed to pluck the strings with two
   fingers.
   Farina in  Capriccio stravagante, 1627, directs the violinist to play
   the violin like a guitar.
   We also use full bowed harmonies in the style of the lirone on the
   viol, because the lirone developed out of styles that were already used
   for the gamba.
   dt
   You can see this lirone style here:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfoPVO4BsM
   They were a lively bunch, way back when!
   dt
 __

   From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 3:24 AM
   Subject: Re: [LUTE] A Christmas Contrafactum
   Great performance and very interesting - especially the lyrics which
   seem to
   have been culled from different parts of the canon.
   A bit of a non-sequitur but how common was it for the viola da gamba to
   pluck rather than bow the bass line?  What is the evidence is
   thereis
   there any?
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:01 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] A Christmas Contrafactum
 One of the interesting features of Early Music is the way in which
 material was recycled. When I first saw the Contrafactum for
 Monteverdi's Chiome d'oro (for Easter), I remember wishing there was
 one for Christmas. But then I figured, how hard could it be to write
   a
 Latin version? Pretty hard, as it turns out, so I had a friend help.
   dt
 [1]aP: Claudio Monteverdi: Puer Natus (Chiome d'oro); Voices of
   Music -
 YouTube
   
 --
   
References
   
 Visible links
 1. [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   
 Hidden links:
 3. [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlE0ibIt0shd=1
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Identify painting

[David Tayler]

   Is this the one?
   http://www.nationalmuseum.se/Global/Pressbilder/RubensvanDyck/H%C3%B6gu
   ppl%C3%B6st%20jpg/0410.jpg
 __

   From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 9:58 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Identify painting
   __
 That's the famous cello painting in the Stockholm museum. They have
 digital online, or I can send you a snap from my summer trip on the
   the
 way to the Opera house.
 The cello has a number of interesting features, including something
 which appears to be a fine tuner.
 d
 From: Anthony Hart [1]anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
 To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:01 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Identify painting
   Can anyone identify the painting used in the following video?
 [1]Pieter Hellendaal Six Sonatas for Cello and Bass Opus V 1780
 Thanks and Happy lutening in 2014
 Anthony
   --
 References
   1. [1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [2][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
 2. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Happy New Year!!!

[David Tayler]

Happy New Year!!!
Laissez les bons luths rouler!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKgLEWv9imEhd=1



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Identify painting

[David Tayler]

 __

   That's the famous cello painting in the Stockholm museum. They have
   digital online, or I can send you a snap from my summer trip on the the
   way to the Opera house.
   The cello has a number of interesting features, including something
   which appears to be a fine tuner.
   d
   From: Anthony Hart anthony.hart1...@gmail.com
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:01 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Identify painting
 Can anyone identify the painting used in the following video?
   [1]Pieter Hellendaal Six Sonatas for Cello and Bass Opus V 1780
   Thanks and Happy lutening in 2014
   Anthony
 --
   References
 1. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3E_fx1Y7ksns=em
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 2A, lutes noise, what is possible, what isn't

[David Tayler]

   That is certainly, absolutely true, but I don't think it all depends on
   it, it is a big part of the equation and a serious aesthetic choice. A
   well struck string will record well up close and at a distance.
   Certainly Nylgut does not record as well at a distance.
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 12:31 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 2A, lutes  noise, what is
   possible, what isn't
 Of course, it all depends if one wishes to record as close as
   possible
 to the actual sound heard by auditors in a concert space - or whether
 one wishes to record something as you might wish it sounded. The two
 are often not the same (as many live performances compared with CD
 recordings testify).
 MH
   __
 From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute-cs.dartmouth.edu
 [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, 8 November 2013, 7:39
 Subject: [LUTE] Recording the lute, Part 2A, lutes  noise, what is
 possible, what isn't
   Part 2: noise.
   Rest assured dear reader, that I have done my Maths. You will find
 many
   opinions on sample rates, and presumably for all the rest of these
   posts, and that is a good thing.
   Part 2A: noise. noisy lutes. too much noise, Dude.
   If you listen to a few hundred lute recordings, you will see that
   almost all of them are too noisy. This post will talk briefly about
 the
   noise from the lute, and how to make your recordings less noisy.
   The
   other parts of this post will go into the noise that comes from
   microphones and other parts of the recording process.
   [sidebar: the reason we are working backwards is because we need to
   arrive at the result--no amount of theory will be good unless the
   result is good, and science can only help for part of the task]
   Lute recording noise has several components. There is the noise
   from
   the recording gear, the noise from the lute, the noise from the
 player,
   and the noise from outside.
   In dealing with the noise, we must make a musical, interesting
   recording. It is not enough to simply remove the noise.
   And here, we must, again working backwards from the nice, low-noise
   musical recording, start with the lute. In starting with the lute
   it
 is
   important to understand what can be fixed right now, what can be
 fixed
   in the next few years, and figuring out what the recording is for.
   In
   the previous post, I talk about how the traditional sample rate is
 not
   ideal for the new marketing and aesthetic considerations of the
   internet, and down the line we will see how that connects to video.
 But
   first, we have to separate out the sounds that the lute makes that
 are
   problematic for noise. And here, the considerations are technique,
   stringing, and the setup.
   There are three parts to the lute as far as noise: setup, paired
 string
   technique, and tone. As long as the player can play every note in a
   composition, even one note at a time, it is possible to assemble
 those
   notes into an edited sequence. So there really is very little
   difference between a highly skilled player and one who isn't, as
   far
 as
   the notes are concerned. But the real difference is the tone and
   the
   noise. The highly skilled player has figured out how to strike the
   string and set up the lute. So the first key here is that the lute
 must
   be set up properly to make a beautiful sound, and, once it is set
   up,
   the players must learn the simple method of striking the paired
 strings
   so that they vibrate together, and then the player must be able to
   produce a sequence of good tones.
   Obviously, there is more to playing the lute, this is just about
   the
   recording.
   NB: The fact is, unless these three criteria are met, no
   microphone,
 no
   Zoom, no gear, no reverb or anything else will remove the noise and
   make a good recording. You could buy a truckload of zooms and they
   would all sound pretty much the same (but not exactly the same). It
   would be a complete waste of time. And, unless the lute is set up
   properly, the player will only be able to progress to certain
   point,
   but that's a subject for another day. You can easily reduce the
 amount
   of noise your instrument makes.
   Using pairs of strings under controlled conditions, it is possible
   to
   measure interference patterns that the strings create. It turns out

[LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate

[David Tayler]

   I think if you ask a bunch of engineers about sampling rates, you will
   get a bunch of different answers, and that is probably the way it
   should be. I don't consider the mathematical analysis the final
   determinant though, it has to sound good. And from a statistical point
   of view, many recordings don't sound good.
   So my work flow generally uses 48/24--and other factors than absolute
   sound go into this equation, although I think 48/24 is closest to the
   unobtanium 60/24.
   And as far as the fine points of noise shaping and resampling, if you
   use 48/24, you don't have to do any. You just send out the original as
   a FLAC file. So part of the process is smoothing out the production
   bumps.
   Further down the road, I will go into which DAW to use, and IMHO some
   DAWs sound better than others.
   dt
 __

   From: andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
   To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 5:26 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate
   Tobiah wrote:
It's a common misconception that 88.2 is somehow easier to re-sample
   down
to 44.1.  I suppose people think that the software can just throw
   away
every other sample, but the algorithm even in this case is far more
   complex.
   It really is simpler.
   Filter out all frequencies above 22050Hz and then throw
   away half the samples.
   There's no need for something called 'interpolation', which
   adds extra complexity when re-sampling from 96k to 44.1k
   If you are resampling, it makes a difference which software you use.
   Audition (aka Cool Edit) has always been known to perform well.
   andy
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Recording the lute, Part 2B, mics and preamps

[David Tayler]

   Noise, part 2B. Or not 2B.
   Imagine for a moment that you are in a library reading room.
   Prominently displayed on the wall are signs calling for silence. After
   a few minutes, your ears adjust to the sound. Through the window, you
   hear a steady, complex sound of traffic. On the wall, a clock ticks
   softly. You hear people moving, turning pages, and talking softly under
   the silence sign. You hear the click of keys on a laptop, and softer
   but more frequent sound of cell phones, tablets and phablets. A reader
   unwraps a piece of candy which creates an astonishingly loud sound.
   In the corner, a radiator emits a steady hiss. Overhead, fluorescent
   lights, one of the great uglies of civilization, pretend to burn. If
   you turned all of these off, you would then hear transformers, or wall
   warts plugged in to the wall to charge and power gizmos, all emitting
   a steady hum.
   All of these make noise, and you can measure the noise in terms of
   loudness, say 12 dB, 30 dB. But all of these sound different, and some
   are much more annoying than others.
   And most of these sounds are like microphones.
   A microphone is a noise producer. It is like the radiator or the wall
   wart, emitting a steady sound. Or perhaps it has a crackly sound. But
   whatever sound it has, you don't want it on your recording. A
   microphone records a sound, and then sends it to a preamp. And this
   preamp again has its own sound. Plug a mic into a preamp in a silent
   room, turn up the gain, and, voila, hiss, hum, noise, maybe some
   turbulence or crackle. Just like the radiator in the corner, it hisses
   away.
   But it is always there. And on lute recordings, it often is seriously,
   way too much there.
   And, obviously, that's because the lute is soft. Same with the
   clavichord. And the lute and the clavichord are two of the most
   difficult instruments to record.
   If you put a tuba next to the radiator, you won't hear the radiator.
   You will just hear nice, warm tuba. But the hiss is there, just in a
   smaller proportion to the overall signal.
   In the old days, in order to get rid of all the noise in the signal
   chain, one had to buy very, very expensive recording equipment and mics
   to basically turn off the radiator part of the sound. Now, the freeway
   sound, the sound of clothing, hum in the room, and the skritch skritch
   of the lute, that is all signal the mic does not know whether it is
   you playing the lute, or your audience member slowly, painfully
   unwrapping a cough drop.

   In the previous post we talked about how a lot of the noise comes from
   the player. And also that if the string is struck properly, you will
   get twice as much sound, more or less, and so your signal to noise
   ratio is much better.
   NB: In other words, a well struck pair of strings reduces noise better
   than the most expensive microphone, because the mic will amplify
   everything in the room.
   When you buy a microphone, it has a number for the amount of noise it
   makes. And that figure is usually between 10dB and 20dB, A weighted. A
   weighted means the way we hear weighted. If it does not say A
   weighted, it is a cheapo mic with fake specs. Lower is better, so 10 is
   way better than 20, A weighted. Unless, and this is a big unless, the
   noise is annoying. Remember the wrapper? If the self noise is
   irregular, it will be intrusive. If it is smooth, it will more or less
   disappear. Also, if it has a high, biting insect sound it will be
   annoying, even at the same volume. So that means, when you bring that
   mic into the room, or recording studio, you are bringing in let's say a
   tiny teapot that makes a soft, steamy noise. A noise that is always
   there. So if you play a really soft note on the lute, you will hear
   half teapot, half lute.  For lute, ideally, you want that number to be
   10-12dB, or lower. With exceptions noted below. What does 20dB sound
   like? Well, it depends on how close you are, but think average computer
   fan. But inside the mic, you can't walk away and have the noise go
   down. The noise in the mic follows the mic.
   The other gear noise is from the box that powers and records the
   microphone, sometimes this is the recorder itself like the Fostex
   FR2LE; sometimes you buy a separate box that just powers the mic. And,
   yes, this box makes some noise of its own as well. Unlike the mic which
   is always sputtering or hissing away in the corner, the amplifier may
   or may not make more noise at certain volume levels. There may, or may
   not, be a sweet spot where you get more amplification without cranking
   up the noise as well. So this box has a noise number as well. Here
   again, lower is better, but these numbers are really confusing,
   depending on the maker. The theoretical limit is around -129.5dB ein.
   What is ein besides the word for one? Well, it stands for equivalent
   input noise. So it isn't really 

[LUTE] Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate

[David Tayler]

I will be writing a guide in installments for my website on how to 
record the lute.
There's more than one way to record the lute, so this is simply one way.
Please add comments,so anyone reading can get some other opinions.

Sample rate
Why start with the sample rate?
In a recording, you need to start at the end and work backwards. If 
you record at the CD sampling rate of 44.1Khz, that's not only not 
ideal, it is not ideal for the internet.
So most recordings are recorded in the wrong container, and although 
you can resample the audio at the end of the process, you are better 
off setting the sample rate for the output.

What is the sample rate?
Basically, the frequency response, the highs and lows. CDs cut off 
the highs. Too much highs, and you may get some artifacts in the audible range.
What is the bit depth?
The bit depth is the resolution, like the megapixels in a camera. 
24bit is the recording standard. CDs are in the 14 bit range, 
although officially 16 bit.

What's the ideal sample rate for lute?
60Khz, 24 bit. Unfortunately, this sample rate is not available on 
most gear. That will probably change at some point, but for now, you 
want to get as close to that rate as possible.
The three best options here are 96Khz, 88.2Khz and 48Khz, at 24 bit.

Which if these three is best?
I recommend 48/24. It compresses and plays well over the internet, 
and it is the video standard.
If you ONLY are going to make CDs, 88.2 is good, and there are maybe 
some marketing advantages to 96Khz. I use 48/24.

It isn't as good as 60Khz, but you get the highs back in the 
harmonics of the lute.

So then what?
At the end of the recording, you can make great MP3s and MP4s, but 
there is something way, way better, and that is 24 bit, 48Khz FLAC files.

What are FLAC files?
FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Coding. It is a good way to 
distributed audio files.
These FLAC files sound virtually identical to what we hear in the 
control room, when mixing down the 24 bit source files.
Way better than CDs, and the internet is already fast enough to 
stream FLAC files in 16 bit or 24 bit.

Anything else?
After making a recording, you want to have a disc with the original, 
24 bit masters. Years from now, you can convert these into whatever 
form is current.
Before the recording starts, you need a written agreement from the 
engineer that you own, or at least get a copy of the source files. 
Otherwise, you won't get them.







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[LUTE] Re: youtube copyright conundrum! Any advice?

[David Tayler]

This is a complicated question, but basically you have a less than one in one 
million chance of having a problem disputing this, and if you have permission, 
you should dispute it. Keep your dispute short, and just say you have 
permission, End of story.
Pay zero attention to the fact that the matched bit is something different, it 
could be random.
How many of these do I get in one year?
I get about 250 in one year.
Most of these are false matches.

Suppose they file a DMCA claim?
They won't, but if they do you can take the video down, or file a counter claim.

dt



From: WALSH STUART s.wa...@ntlworld.com
To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: [LUTE] youtube copyright conundrum! Any advice?


No doubt it's all my fault - but this is a strange case. I uploaded a video to 
youtube yesterday and I got a notification: Matched third-party content.
That's not the really odd bit though.

The video I uploaded was a modern piece and I've done similar before and in the 
description I have written the publication and the date. But yesterday, perhaps
in a senior moment, I also included the publisher, OUP.  As it was uploading I  
got a notification that it was taking longer than normal. I thought something 
was odd
and deleted the reference to OUP - but, perhaps too late. On the other hand  
it's also possible that notification  of Matched third-party content is not 
connected at all to my including
OUP in the description.

If I click on Matched third-party content I get this screen:

http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Untitled-1.jpg

So my video 'may include a song owned by a third party' and one or more music 
publishing societies may administer the rights. But the really, really odd 
thing is that youtube is
very clear at the point in the video in which the 'matched content' starts...15 
seconds in... not from the beginning. But I am playing from the very start of 
the video and after 15 seconds
I've got to bar 12. So the first 15 bars of Howard Skempton's Prelude 5 from 
Images is not 'matched content' but after 15 seconds, for an unspecified amount 
of time, it is. I now have two options:
to dispute or acknowledge this. (And I don't know what 'acknowledge' amounts to)

I contacted Howard Skempton, who seems to be a sporting chap and doesn't mind 
me having a crack at his pieces on a lute, and told him about this. He strongly 
urged me to dispute the matter.


If I choose to dispute it, I get this screen:

http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Untitled-2.jpg

There are seven options and the first three tell me that they are not valid and 
the 'acknowledge' button is inviting me to press it. Howard Skempton tells me 
that OUP hold the rights. I
haven't got a licence or permission from OUP (just as hundreds of thousands of 
others on youtube who are playing music from books they have - or haven't - 
bought).

Fair enough, I reluctantly suppose,  OUP  are the holders of the rights of the 
score  and I haven't got specific permission from OUP (even though the actual  
composer is fine about it and I played the piece
and took the photo).

But what does 'acknowledge' mean? And what about the first 15 seconds?

Could this possibly be some sort of scam? If I click 'acknowledge' do adverts 
start appearing and the minute amount of money start flowing - or trickling - 
to some dodgy copyright corporation?


Stuart





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[LUTE] Re: Zoom H1

[David Tayler]

The H2N (not the H2) has many features that are not available on the H2, and 
has five microphones. No point in buying the H1 unless you want something more 
compact. 
None of the Zoom products will sound as good as a pair of decent microphones, 
but the H2N is small, easy, compact and has a bunch of mics.
dt




- Original Message -
From: Stuart McLuckie stuart.mcluc...@blueyonder.co.uk
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:39 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Zoom H1

I want a recorder to improve my playing and it seems that the Zoom H1
would fit the bill. However, the Zoom H2 seems to be the favourite home
recorder on this list. Does the H2 have any significant advantage over
the H1?

Cheers - Stuart McLuckie



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[LUTE] Re: lute music for a Gesualdo programme

[David Tayler]

I played his one keyboard piece once on archlute (with octave jumps and maybe I 
left out the hard notes), and I have also seen it on harp, an unusual piece (on 
IMSLP) but ultimately maybe not the best music. 

http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/b/b9/IMSLP259617-PMLP421018-Canzon_francese_del_Principe.pdf


In this piece, I don't have a problem slowing down the fast notes :)
dt



- Original Message -
From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
To: lutelist Net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 1:29 AM
Subject: [LUTE] lute music for a Gesualdo programme

   I'm to play some 15 minutes of lute music in a concert with music by
   Gesualdo. Are there any clues to lute music connected to him, his music
   or his circle?
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


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[LUTE] Re: Zoom H1

[David Tayler]

One is a subset of the other, plus you have MS so you can use MS recording 
which is really great sometimes.
So you can just use it as stereo, no problem, but if you want to do something 
different with the sound, it is there.

Environment sound: I don't see this, but I did not design it. It seems to be 
designed for flexibility.
I mean, it is a cheap box, box the slightly more expensive cheap box has a lot 
of great features.
It still will sound worse than a pair of $100 dollar mics.
dt




- Original Message -
From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Zoom H1

On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 12:11:56 -0800 (PST), David Tayler wrote
 The H2N (not the H2) has many features that are not available on the
 H2, and has five microphones.

But what for? The H2/H2Ns capsule setup is designed to caputure
environment sound. That's fine if your goal is a live podcast, you
are a journalist etc.
In my recordings I'm usually very glad to _not_ capture all that
coughing, feet shuffling, whispering etc. from the audience.
If you really want to capture an audiophile rendering of the room
you play in you need a much more elaborate micing.

 No point in buying the H1 unless you
 want something more compact.

Price? Compactness?
The H1 is an impressive practising aid (and that's what the OP
was looking for). While practising at home, I usually have my
Zoom (H4, the H1 wasn't arround when I bought mine) connected to
my Netbook as an audio input. It's much easier to do fast playback
with DAW software and I can control recording with my keyboard
(or from my smartphone on the musicstand).

  None of the Zoom products will sound as
 good as a pair of decent microphones, but the H2N is small, easy,
  compact and has a bunch of mics. dt

What comparisons did you do? (please, no forum folklore).
I compared my Zoom inbuild mics (same capsules as the H1/H2) with
some external mics both connected to the H4 (this is one of the
main benefits of the H4, you can connect external phantom-powered
mics) and to an M-Audio Microtec. My results: the difference for
_usual_ usecases (i.e. no CD/DVD Production) are pretty neglectible.
Or: the Zoom capsules are rather impressive. The week part of all
Zooms is the A/D converter, which is a bit noisy compared to the
ones used in the M-Audio Mircotec or the Tascam handheld recorders.

For recoding rehearsals, practising sessions or the occasional
concert recording I'd go with the H1.

Cheers, Ralf Mattes


 - Original Message -
 From: Stuart McLuckie stuart.mcluc...@blueyonder.co.uk
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Cc:
 Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 9:39 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Zoom H1

 I want a recorder to improve my playing and it seems that the Zoom H1
 would fit the bill. However, the Zoom H2 seems to be the favourite home
 recorder on this list. Does the H2 have any significant advantage
 over the H1?

 Cheers - Stuart McLuckie

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--
R. Mattes -
Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg
r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de

[LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate

[David Tayler]

snip

44.1kHz is fine for most things.  96k is great too, if you're one of the one's
that think that that they can hear the difference.  Try an ABX test
before thinking that it's true for you.  I agree however, that for
very serious recording, a higher rate should be used.

I don't think 44.1 is fine for lute as it removes too much high frequencies and 
is not optimum for internet.
As for testing, I have tested .

snip
Mathematically, and in practice, 44.1 kHz is enough to accurately
represent any frequency up to the Nyquist, or 220050, which is
enough for most (all?) humans.

Well, I think it is better to have more highs, Also the recommendation of AES,

snip

The analog to digital converter has a low-pass filter that prevents
any frequencies from getting to it that would cause aliasing or artifacts.
This is a place where a sample rate greater than 44100 is beneficial -
the requirements for the filter are relaxed, and it doesn't have to be
as steep, or have the possibility of affecting audible frequencies.

I disagree. My test show 60 is optimum, and after that, it does not get better.

snip
24 bit definitely has some advantages.  The end result can be represented
in 44.1kHz just fine, but recording in 24 bit allows one to be a little
more sloppy setting levels, and grants more headroom during recording.

We are talking about streaming the end product in 24 bits.

snip
I'm unclear as to how you would arrive at the 60kHz figure.

By testing the different rates with a sample clock.

snip
FLAC is really great, but again, I challenge anyone to tell the difference
between the much smaller 320kbps bit-rate .mp3 and FLAC or WAV.

I like it! 


snip
I totally agree.  I use 96k/24-bit for this reason.  Why not capture
as much information as possible to archive for the future.

96/24 is OK, I prefer 48 24 but the differences are small. 96 has some 
marketing advantages.
Can't go too far wrong with 96/24.
dt



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[LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate

[David Tayler]

(snip)

I suggest you google ABX, get the software, and
blindly compare sample rates above 44.1kHz.  Then
do the same for various bitrate .mp3's and FLAC.

dt:
Thanks for the advice! I have already done all the tests; that's why I'm 
writing the article.
But, since you raise the point, the tests can only show what you think you are 
hearing, they don't  test what you are capable of hearing.
This is a fundamental flaw in the methodology of the tests.

So for example, if you see a video edit, and the person has moved say two 
inches between takes, you would see that person jump.
But if you hear an audio edit, it appears  to be seamless.
But if your ears were trained like your eyes, you would hear the person 
jump--you would say, Oh, there's a big edit there, the violinists moved a few 
inches.

Similarly if you go back to digital video that is say 10 years old, it looks 
coarse and noisy, but at the time it looked like the latest thing. Because it 
was in fact the latest thing.

The second, huge flaw in the methodology has to do with whether it is organic. 
So, for example, if you have two apples that look the same, and they each taste 
the same, there is no reason to eat the organic apple. Except I do eat the 
organic apple; that is the apple that I choose.
And in music, you can have a recording process that is more organic, but you 
have to think about the whole process, not whether you can hear for
example a dropped sample.

The reason I like FLAC is not because of the numbers, but because it has an 
organic quality. Plus it hits certain notes, so to speak, in terms of the 
bigger picture of video, marketing, streaming, recording, archiving, and so on. 
Hopefully the pattern will emerge after the detour into lute land of Part Deux, 
the Lute itself.

This is just the distillation of my recording experience, just for lute. 
Certain things are different when recording lute. 
That's not to say that there aren't other ways to make a recording!
And, like the story of the video that once looked great, it is planned along a 
time scale. 

dt


Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2013 5:57 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Recording the lute, Part 1, sample rate



On 11/7/2013 4:04 PM, David Tayler wrote:


 snip

 44.1kHz is fine for most things.  96k is great too, if you're one of the one's
 that think that that they can hear the difference.  Try an ABX test
 before thinking that it's true for you.  I agree however, that for
 very serious recording, a higher rate should be used.

 I don't think 44.1 is fine for lute as it removes too much high frequencies 
 and is not optimum for internet.
 As for testing, I have tested .

 snip
 Mathematically, and in practice, 44.1 kHz is enough to accurately
 represent any frequency up to the Nyquist, or 220050, which is
 enough for most (all?) humans.

 Well, I think it is better to have more highs, Also the recommendation of AES,

 snip

 The analog to digital converter has a low-pass filter that prevents
 any frequencies from getting to it that would cause aliasing or artifacts.
 This is a place where a sample rate greater than 44100 is beneficial -
 the requirements for the filter are relaxed, and it doesn't have to be
 as steep, or have the possibility of affecting audible frequencies.

 I disagree. My test show 60 is optimum, and after that, it does not get 
 better.

 snip
 24 bit definitely has some advantages.  The end result can be represented
 in 44.1kHz just fine, but recording in 24 bit allows one to be a little
 more sloppy setting levels, and grants more headroom during recording.

 We are talking about streaming the end product in 24 bits.

 snip
 I'm unclear as to how you would arrive at the 60kHz figure.

 By testing the different rates with a sample clock.

 snip
 FLAC is really great, but again, I challenge anyone to tell the difference
 between the much smaller 320kbps bit-rate .mp3 and FLAC or WAV.

 I like it!


 snip
 I totally agree.  I use 96k/24-bit for this reason.  Why not capture
 as much information as possible to archive for the future.

 96/24 is OK, I prefer 48 24 but the differences are small. 96 has some 
 marketing advantages.
 Can't go too far wrong with 96/24.
 dt



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[LUTE] Recording the lute, Part 2A, lutes noise, what is possible, what isn't

[David Tayler]

   Part 2: noise.
   Rest assured dear reader, that I have done my Maths. You will find many
   opinions on sample rates, and presumably for all the rest of these
   posts, and that is a good thing.

   Part 2A: noise. noisy lutes. too much noise, Dude.
   If you listen to a few hundred lute recordings, you will see that
   almost all of them are too noisy. This post will talk briefly about the
   noise from the lute, and how to make your recordings less noisy. The
   other parts of this post will go into the noise that comes from
   microphones and other parts of the recording process.

   [sidebar: the reason we are working backwards is because we need to
   arrive at the result--no amount of theory will be good unless the
   result is good, and science can only help for part of the task]

   Lute recording noise has several components. There is the noise from
   the recording gear, the noise from the lute, the noise from the player,
   and the noise from outside.

   In dealing with the noise, we must make a musical, interesting
   recording. It is not enough to simply remove the noise.

   And here, we must, again working backwards from the nice, low-noise
   musical recording, start with the lute. In starting with the lute it is
   important to understand what can be fixed right now, what can be fixed
   in the next few years, and figuring out what the recording is for. In
   the previous post, I talk about how the traditional sample rate is not
   ideal for the new marketing and aesthetic considerations of the
   internet, and down the line we will see how that connects to video. But
   first, we have to separate out the sounds that the lute makes that are
   problematic for noise. And here, the considerations are technique,
   stringing, and the setup.

   There are three parts to the lute as far as noise: setup, paired string
   technique, and tone. As long as the player can play every note in a
   composition, even one note at a time, it is possible to assemble those
   notes into an edited sequence. So there really is very little
   difference between a highly skilled player and one who isn't, as far as
   the notes are concerned. But the real difference is the tone and the
   noise. The highly skilled player has figured out how to strike the
   string and set up the lute. So the first key here is that the lute must
   be set up properly to make a beautiful sound, and, once it is set up,
   the players must learn the simple method of striking the paired strings
   so that they vibrate together, and then the player must be able to
   produce a sequence of good tones.

   Obviously, there is more to playing the lute, this is just about the
   recording.

   NB: The fact is, unless these three criteria are met, no microphone, no
   Zoom, no gear, no reverb or anything else will remove the noise and
   make a good recording. You could buy a truckload of zooms and they
   would all sound pretty much the same (but not exactly the same). It
   would be a complete waste of time. And, unless the lute is set up
   properly, the player will only be able to progress to certain point,
   but that's a subject for another day. You can easily reduce the amount
   of noise your instrument makes.

   Using pairs of strings under controlled conditions, it is possible to
   measure interference patterns that the strings create. It turns out
   that the strings must be in a certain phase relationship to make a good
   sound. You can see this phase with a high speed camera, and you can
   measure, in different ways, what happens when the pairs vibrate. That's
   not to say you can quantify a good sound, but most lute players know
   intuitively when the pair of strings seems to just pop out of the lute.
   That's when they are in phase, and that's why double strings are
   seriously cool.

   So step one is to get the setup right, and learn how to hit both
   strings so they vibrate together--the majority of players will hit one
   of the pairs before the other. If the strings are struck in sequence,
   instead of together, they clash, they interfere with each other. If the
   spacing and the setup is not right, it won't work. Most lutes simply
   have too little space between the pairs, or too much space. A narrow,
   roughly parallel pair can vibrate in phase, as well as a pair that is
   for example about 5.2 mm wide at the bridge. Most lutes fall in between
   these two workable dimensions, and they clash. Unless the strings can
   vibrate as pairs, the recording will always be noisy. There's a certain
   trick to hitting two at once, and you need the combo of the spacing and
   the stroke. Then you must hit pairs as you play. It is easy to do, but
   it takes patience.

   The next source of noise in the skritch skritch skritch of the fingers
   on the strings.
   Again, most lute recordings really have way too much surface noise, and
   though some of it can be removed digitally, there is just too much
   noise 

[LUTE] Double wide spacing for polyphony

[David Tayler]

   Over the years I have tried out a number of ideas for a model of lute
   that is good for polyphony. Specifically, I wanted something for both
   playing and recording that reveals the maximum separation in the
   individual polyphonic parts, with tone and transparency. What I have
   now is a 65cm C36 lute copy, with shaded yew, and double wide
   spacing. The space is larger between the pairs of strings, and each
   pair is wider between the unisons and octaves.
   It does result in a more transparent sound for polyphony. However, not
   recommended for smaller hands.
   If you play the theorbo, it will seem small anyway.
   Actually, the transparency is also good for ricercars, even though the
   music is not as complex, but where you really hear the difference is in
   the multipart compositions, and also lute songs. The width takes some
   getting used to, and I will also try a model with the same spacing and
   a smaller mensur, when I get around to it.
   http://www.flickr.com/photos/42226428@N03/sets/72157635192655310/

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Liuto forte

[David Tayler]

   If they called it a fake lute, it would not sell as well.
 __

   From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com
   To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:41 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Liuto forte
 Would anybody be willing to share his own experience with liuto forte
 instruments?
 --
 Bruno Figueiredo
 Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
 historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
 Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
 Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
 --
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References

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[LUTE] Re: now- How did Iadone play?

[David Tayler]

   My teacher, how to describe him?
   First, one of the most fun people to play music with, ever, and,
   second, one of the few teachers who can change your life forever.
   Amazing tone. Very large, chiseled fingers that could hold down two
   double courses with just the end of the finger.
   Played a two Hauser lutes, then later in life, a Papazian. Back then,
   that was the top of the line. I loved the sound of the Hausers, with
   gut strings even better.
   I have some recordings of him playing lute and harpsichord duets with
   wife Norma~IMHO that was his absolute best repertory, although he could
   play pretty much anything. For the lute/harpsichord duo they arranged
   all kinds of complex music and played it perfectly. The harpsichord was
   a very small one that sounded like a lute and sat on a table, maybe a
   Dolmetch.
   There were also hours and hours of the faculty concerts recorded by
   Vermont radio. Anyone's guess where those tapes are.
   At the Collegium in Putney Vermont in the late 60s we all were
   required to study musicianship at the workshop. Here we got the
   Hindemth system directly from Hindemith's student. I'm convinced that
   this is the reason, or one of the main reasons, that all those students
   went on to have successful careers.
   Thanks Joe~!
   dt

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[LUTE] Re: Hindemith was Re: general public Lute awareness

[David Tayler]

   Yes, there was a concerto for Iadone.
   dt
 __

   From: andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:39 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Hindemith was Re: general public Lute awareness
   So, considering that Hindemith wrote for many different solo
   instruments.
   Did he ever write for Lute?
   andy
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References

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[LUTE] Re: home recording

[David Tayler]

   For what it is, the Zoom H2 is a decent sounding box, and very handy. I
   use it for teaching classes on how to get started in AV. But you cannot
   really improve the sound with EQ and a notch filter, the sound of the
   lute is too complex. What happens is as you fix the sound, you add
   coloration and it sounds artificial. It may not be noticeable to most
   people, but you will notice it, and the only people who listen to lute
   recordings are other lute players :)
   The best you can do is to roll off the bass below 64 Hz which will
   mostly eliminate electronic noise and rumble from traffic and airplanes
   and so on the add 1.2dB of gain with a Waves L2 limiter and and some
   high quality reverb. Next step up is an a pair of $89 mics like the
   Studio Projects B1. If you consider that they sound nearly as good as
   mics I paid $800 for back in the 1980s, I would say prices are
   reasonable.
   Consider for a moment that if you go on to Amazon or better yet
   Magnatune most of the lute recordings do not sound very good. And at
   least 75 percent of these use pretty expensive mics. What this means is
   that mic placement is key, and also that it isn't easy to record the
   lute or more ppl would do it better. Having said that, with a pair of
   MKH 20s and a Fostex FR2 LE, it is tough to screw it up.
   The Zoom is decent, but you can't push it to the top level. Placement
   of the Zoom will change the sound more than anything. It doesn't pick
   up as much surface noise as some mics, but it does pick up some.
   At least 50 percent of the surface noise in a recording is technique,
   but that is a long topic. And if you get rid of the other 50 percent,
   you won't really hear it so much.
   There's really no point in using audacity, but as long as your editing
   software accepts VST plugins you can add a good reverb to the final
   product. If you plan on doing anything extensive, or if you plan on
   doing it for more than a few years, use one of the big two: Sequoia or
   Pyramix. Samplitude is the same as Sequoia and you can often get the
   budget version for a few dollars. I sometimes see older versions for
   $10 and anything above version 8 is fine.
   dt
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 3:02 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: home recording
 Hi David,
 Can you recall what frequency range(s) is(are) responsible for
   bringing
 out the 'plicky' sound?  I sometimes have trouble with my Zoom H2 in
 that respect and it would be good to get a steer as to where to
   attack
 it with the EQ in my software (Audacity).  At the moment I cut
 everything beyond 10kHz, and it helps a lot, but refinements would be
 good.
 Thanks,
 Bill
 From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2013, 4:33
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: home recording
   The omni capsule is an NT45, not the 55. It has a very different
   character than the cardioid and is excellent in free field omni
   applications.
   As far as brightness, many factors cause this, but in general,
   omnis
   tend to have less of a presence peak than cardioids. Of course a
   mic
   like the MKH 40 is pretty flat 20-20, however, there is an acoustic
   principle at work as well. AS good as the NT45 is, I do not
   recommend
   it for lute if you are only buying a pair. That is because the mic
   works best at slightly longer distances from the sound source, and
 with
   the lute you have to have a medium distance mic to keep the signal
   to
   noise ratio under control, and to avoid picking up surface noise.
   As
   flanker mics in an array, or surround mics, they are fine, if not
 quite
   as smooth as the big three.
   snip
   less brightness from an omni?
   snip
   An omni will, in most acoustics, pick up more reflected or ambient
   sound than a cardioid, by design. In a church or even a room, as
   the
   sound radiates out and back, it loses high frequency energy, then
   is
   picked up by the mic, So an omni has a greater ratio of rolled off
   sound to direct sound than a cardioid, which in turn lowers the
   total
   amount of high frequency energy. Some inexpensive mics have big
   presence peaks to make them sound more like pop music, but most
   omnis
   are fairly conservative in this regard.
   The lute has two almost impossible recording problems--surface
   noise
   and a high frequency bump in area we associate with speech. Because
 of
   this, most mics, no matter what the specs, no matter what the
 reviews,
   no matter what the salesperson who has never made

[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness

[David Tayler]

   I think this is an interesting question, and I will risk posting an
   honest answer. The answer depends on who is The General Public. I
   divide the groups as: the 200 countries of YouTube distribution,
   Academics, other lute players, people in the Early Music scene, and
   modern musicians, as these are the groups frequently mentioned here.
   First off, however, I must note that at a good conservatory or college
   offering a real music major, you are expected to play the piano, read
   figured bass and pass a score reading exam using multiple staves of an
   orchestra work and transposing clefs.
   I mention this because of the puzzling stories about people who can
   play the keyboard and transpose and so on. That is an entry level
   skill, and a requirement. I had to take two years of piano to pass the
   exam, along with all the other students, and that was to get just a
   basic BA in music. Hours of piano lab, hours of practice, and everyone
   had to do it, no exceptions. I had to take an even harder exam to be
   admitted for the MA, which included a test in Fugue writing and
   counterpoint. Basic training, basic training for just the BA. However,
   in many European systems, the requirements are more strict.
   So although I think it is cool that there are these stories, I think
   the very fact that we tell these stories sends the message to the
   General Public that, unfortunately, we didn't finish basic training.
   And what kind of a message is that? Most professional musicians on the
   violin, cello, piano, harpsichord, and so on, had to work to get these
   skills just to get into the Conservatory. They expect everyone to do
   these things fluently. This explains some of the attitude from modern
   players. Rightly or wrongly, they look at the basic training. And they
   had teachers who said, in a unified voice no shortcuts.
   And that in no way means that the people in the lute stories are not
   good musicians, because they often are, but think for a moment if you
   played in any original, historical French baroque opera what you would
   have to do. You would have to read multiple clefs, including double
   figured (figures on both sides of the staff) baritone clef with the F
   on the middle line, and short score the other parts, none of which line
   up with anything familiar.
   Way harder than playing the piano. Most harpsichordists and organists
   who play opera can do this, most lute players cannot do this. Yes, it
   is harder on the lute. But the musical skills are the same and no
   harder.
   As far as the General Population of the Planet, the vast majority have
   no idea what a lute is, and lute players would be regarded as an
   historical oddity from movies and TV shows, e.g., cameo appearances of
   Game of Thrones or House.  Followers of Sting would have a very
   hazy idea that it is the funny looking instrument from Sting's foray
   into Early Music, but not much more. Certainly the YouTube boom has
   marginally improved awareness, however, most of the YouTube videos are
   not intended to be recordings in the sense of a produced recording.
   There's no one playing the lute on YouTube who can even remotely
   approach the chops of say for example the 14 year old girl who plays
   the Vivaldi Four Seasons on the guitar. The GPOTP may not know much,
   but they know raw talent.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGfO2Dgc9Y
   As far as other lute players, lute players are highly regarded. This
   means we live in a bubble.
   As far as other Early Music musicians, sadly, but undeniably, lute
   players are regarded as the worst musicians. Bottom of the Barrel. That
   is, there is no other instrument that has a lower reputation, with the
   possible exception of the Krummhorn. The reason for this is
   complicated, but basically has to do with anecdotal stories that
   circulate about lute players in ensembles, basic sight reading, rhythm,
   score reading, ensemble skills and so on. The situation has changed
   slightly in the last few years, as more continuo players enter the
   pool. However, recorder players, cornetto, harpsichord, organ, oboe and
   viol players nowadays have advanced training, especially in notation
   and ornamentation, but also in ensemble playing and rhythmic training,
   that lute players just don't have. Their bar is higher.
   Other Early Music musicians make constant and disparaging jokes about
   the quality of the lute YouTube videos. They circulate them in groups
   as joke emails, especially where two continuo players are playing the
   same piece but playing different chords. Like major and minor at the
   same time. It is one of the most common comments I hear in the pub
   after an orchestra rehearsal. Did you see this. OMG how could they not
   know? What they are saying is not only did they play the mistake, but
   they are unaware that a mistake has been played. Of course, these same
   commentators are not 

[LUTE] Re: home recording

[David Tayler]

   This is a complicated question, but basically the Rodes are really too
   bright for lute. The Studio Projects B1 (not the other models, only the
   B1) is the Budget King at $89 and the Oktava is fine--the omni capsules
   are better for lute of you have the right acoustic, and you can get a
   model with both omni and cardioid capsules for not much extra. If you
   just want the best value for the money, get the B1, if you want more
   flexibilty with a multicapsule system, get the Oktava with both sets of
   capsules. Of the Rodes, the NT5 omni capsule is way better than the
   Rode cardiod capsule for lute, it is brighter than the Oktava omni--the
   bass extension is similar, maybe the Oktava goes a bit lower if you
   need to mic a violone. Remember that for lute, bass extension picks up
   more traffic rumble, but this is easy to roll off in post.
   Most lute recordings have an astonishing amount of noise and junk in
   the sound, which is surprising. The SP B1 is fairly quiet, For super
   quiet, you need to buy a more expensive mic, and here the big three for
   lute in no particular order are the Schoeps M2H, the Sennheiser MKH 20
   and the DPA 4003. Of these, the MKH 20 is silent in all respects, and
   can record a clavichord.
   The Focusrite USB is at the lower end of the preamp food chain,
   consider a flash recorder preamp combo like the Fostex FR2LE. There is
   a caveat here which is if you are thinking of expanding into video,
   then you want gear that works with video, and here the advantage of the
   Oktava 012 is that it can be put on a boom for doing interviews and so
   on. If you are in a church and it is too live, use the cardioid, if you
   are in a home studio, use the omni capsules. More flexibility, but a
   little more self noise than the B1. A three mic system with an
   inexpensive ribbon mic will be even better, but then you need an
   interface that will record three mics, like the Tascam DR 680.
 __

   From: Rafael Munoz Rodriguez rafalu...@yahoo.es
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:48 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] home recording
 Dear friends,
 I would like to buy a matched pair of microphones to make some home
 recordings with the following instruments: theorbo, archlute, Baroque
 lute, Renaissance lute, vihuela and Baroque guitar. The mikes would
 work with a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. For the price I would like to pay
   I
 have been told that the best options could be a pair of Rode NT5 or
 Oktava MK-012. I have listen to some guitar sound samples and I find
 the Rode more brilliant and dynamic, but it cuts a bit the low range
 frequencies. The Oktava gives a more natural and woody sound, but I
 find it a bit dark with a strong presence of mid-range frequencies.
 Does anyone have recording experience with these specific models?
   Other
 suggestions are also welcome. Maybe there is a model wich is
 particularly good at recording early music plucked strings
   instruments.
 Thanks in advance.
 Best wishes,
 Rafael Munoz
 --
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   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: home recording

[David Tayler]

   Here are the specs for the Focusrite
   If you Focus on the EIN number, this measures the noise. Here the
   figure is -120dB, and it needs to be in the -128 to -129.5 range, if
   properly measured, (budget gear is never properly measured, so add a
   few points).
   What this means is that when you add the noise of the mic to the noise
   of the preamp, you get, well, noise. Not a lot of noise, but noticeable
   on a lute recording. Why the noise? Well, one reason is that it is
   powered by the USB bus. USB really does not have the power to run a mic
   preamp on a budget system.
   dt
   Frequency Response 20Hz - 20kHz +/- 0.1 dB
   THD+N  0.002% (minimum gain, -1dBFS input with 22Hz/22kHz bandpass
   filter)
   Equivalent Input Noise (EIN)  -120dB: measured at 55dB of gain with
   150I(c) termination (20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
   Gain Range +10dB to +55dB
   Max Input Level -3dBu

   --


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: home recording

[David Tayler]

   The omni capsule is an NT45, not the 55. It has a very different
   character than the cardioid and is excellent in free field omni
   applications.
   As far as brightness, many factors cause this, but in general, omnis
   tend to have less of a presence peak than cardioids. Of course a mic
   like the MKH 40 is pretty flat 20-20, however, there is an acoustic
   principle at work as well. AS good as the NT45 is, I do not recommend
   it for lute if you are only buying a pair. That is because the mic
   works best at slightly longer distances from the sound source, and with
   the lute you have to have a medium distance mic to keep the signal to
   noise ratio under control, and to avoid picking up surface noise. As
   flanker mics in an array, or surround mics, they are fine, if not quite
   as smooth as the big three.
   snip
   less brightness from an omni?
   snip
   An omni will, in most acoustics, pick up more reflected or ambient
   sound than a cardioid, by design. In a church or even a room, as the
   sound radiates out and back, it loses high frequency energy, then is
   picked up by the mic, So an omni has a greater ratio of rolled off
   sound to direct sound than a cardioid, which in turn lowers the total
   amount of high frequency energy. Some inexpensive mics have big
   presence peaks to make them sound more like pop music, but most omnis
   are fairly conservative in this regard.
   The lute has two almost impossible recording problems--surface noise
   and a high frequency bump in area we associate with speech. Because of
   this, most mics, no matter what the specs, no matter what the reviews,
   no matter what the salesperson who has never made a classical music
   recording will tell you, most mics will fail miserably at recording the
   lute, and make a scratchy, plicky (plastic+icky)
   sound. Plick plick plick. The B1 and the Oktavas, as well as the very
   expensive ones I mentioned, just happen to have the EQ notches in the
   right places to counteract the basic noise from the lute, or at least
   keep it to a minimum. Preamp circuit topology also plays a role, but
   the mic is the main source of the noise and plicky sound.
   dt
 __

   From: andy butler akbut...@tiscali.co.uk
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, August 7, 2013 1:24 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: home recording
   David Tayler wrote:
 Of the Rodes, the NT5 omni capsule is way better than the
   Rode cardiod capsule for lute,
   right, that's the NT55
   less brightness from an omni?
   There's also an equivalent mic from SE electronics. SE4
   (but the freq response diagram for it shows a sizable bump at 8kHz)
   andy
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Oy vey ch'io cado

[David Tayler]

Does anyone know of an online score for Monteverdi Ohime ch'io cado 
(solo song).
Thanks in advance.
dt



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Vivaldi, Bach and Schmelzer

[David Tayler]

   Some vivaldi, Bach and Schmelzer for our listening enjoyment, recorded
   on my trusty camcorder.
   Bach's Jauchzet Gott
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUF8lf9fHaMhd=1
   Schmelzer's trumpet sonata
   [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxdjPCWpRl8hd=1
   Vivaldi's sacred motet In turbato mare irato
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?vRRSxWwSqQAhd=1
   dt
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUF8lf9fHaMhd=1
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxdjPCWpRl8hd=1
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?vRRSxWwSqQAhd=1


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Vivaldi, Bach and Schmelzer

[David Tayler]

Doh!
Should be Biber not Schmelzer.

Some Vivaldi, Bach and Biberfor our listening enjoyment, recorded on 
my trusty camcorder.

Bach's Jauchzet Gott
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUF8lf9fHaMhd=1

Biber's trumpet sonata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxdjPCWpRl8hd=1

Vivaldi's sacred motet In turbato mare irato
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52RSxWwSqQAhd=1
dt



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[LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing

[David Tayler]

Ideally what we need is for ppl to upload their spacings. I will
   upload one from about 20 years ago which is slightly wider than what I
   have now--I will call it fat and happy
   d
   --- On Thu, 11/15/12, Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com wrote:

 From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing
 To: Gregory Brown delphinconsult...@earthlink.net
 Cc: 'Luca Manassero' l...@manassero.net, 'lute'
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 5:18 AM

   No - width of the neck will be determined by the string spacing.  By
   thickness, I mean the distance from the surface of the fingerboard to
   the back of the neck.
   Ned
   On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:26 PM, Gregory Brown wrote:
By thickness, do you mean the width of the neck?
   
-Original Message-
From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Edward Mast
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:14 PM
To: Luca Manassero
Cc: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing
   
String spacing is indeed most important.  But I rarely (never?) see
mentioned thickness of the neck.  For a couple of years I played an 8
   course
lute with a rather thin neck, which I assumed to be normal.  Then I
   got an 8
course with a thicker neck and found (I do have large hands) that
   barred
chords that had been difficult on the thinner neck were considerably
   easier
on the thicker neck.  I quickly got rid of the thinner neck
   instrument.
Perhaps something else to consider when buying a lute . . .
Ned
On Nov 14, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Luca Manassero wrote:
   
 Dear list,
 five years ago at the Neuburg (Bavaria) Summer Academy I
   happened
 to try an 8 course lute built for a friend of mine by Martin
   Shepherd:
 the strings spacing fitted so perfectly that later on I e-mailed
   Martin
 to have his strings spacing. I still use it on all my Renaissance
 instruments.
 In any case all lutemakers I approached over the last seven years
 ALWAYS asked me my strings spacing requirements: they NEVER
   simply
 used their without asking first.
 Last but not least, I have played a few exact copies of museum
 instruments: in all cases an extremely narrow strings spacing made
   them
 almost unplayable (to me). Having big hands I don't see why I
   should
 play on a very narrow, mandolin-like neck. What if the original
 instrument (aka Gerle...) was originally built for a 10 years old
 little girl?
 Luca
 David Tayler on 14/11/12 18.29 wrote:
   
  It depends on the player, the technique and the size of the hands,
   the
 width of the fingers, etc., but in the critical spacing of the
   first
 three courses I would not go below 5mm center to enter between
   pairs
 and below 11.5 between the chanterelle and the next string over, if
   the
 top string is single. There is a cross point at the plucking point
   that
 is the real figure, that is, the width where the string plucked. As
   for
 the other courses, it also depends on the string material. For an
   early
 style lute, you can also use a close parallel spacing, but unless
   the
 maker knows how to do it, I would not try it.
 The reach of the hand is important in an eight course instrument,
   but
 that depends on the hand. So at eight courses, you may have to
   compress
 the spacing slightly if reach is an issue. If they live in
   California,
 I can take a look, but otherwise you may have to rely on a generic
 pattern, or borrow a few instruments to see if they fit. It's like
 buying shoes. You can ask what shoe size you need, but you still
   have
 to wear them. Ninety percent of lutes have the wrong spacing, so it
   is
 worth getting it right when it is built.
 dt
 --- On Sun, 11/4/12, Jerzy Zak [1][3]jurek...@gmail.com wrote:
   
   From: Jerzy Zak [2][4]jurek...@gmail.com
   Subject: [LUTE] 8-ch lute strings spacing
   To: lute mailing list list [3][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Sunday, November 4, 2012, 5:06 PM
   
 Dear Lutelist,
 A student of mine is expacting a new 8-ch lute. The maker has
   little
 experience with an instrument of such number of courses. So we all
   need
 some advice from you. We need a typical spacing on both sides of
 strings, aEUR|if there is such typical spacing, of course.
   Anyway, at
 least a distance between the outer strings would be of help, if not
   all
 measurements.
 Thanks in advance!
 Jerzy Z
 ---
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][4][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
 --
   
References
   
 1. [5][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
References
   
 1. mailto:[8]jurek...@gmail.com
 2

[LUTE] Re: Rolled chords

[David Tayler]

 slightly staggered, or ruffled, to create a slight roll in the
  sound. '  How does any analysis of registration inform us that the
  plucks of a chord were 'rolled'? - or do you mean that in a poorly
  regulated instrument the two rows of jacks may be out of
  synchronisation?
  MH
  --- On Thu, 22/11/12, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   wrote:
From: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
To: lute [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Thursday, 22 November, 2012, 18:45
  A rolled chord is an arpeggio, literally, like a harp, and these
   go
 back to the Early Renaissance. They probably date back to
   antiquity,
  if
 one wants to include attempts at reconstructing Lyre style from
  world
 music sources like the Eritrean Begena. Written out arpeggios
  feature
 in Mudarra's famous work of course.
 A careful analysis of harpsichord registration indicates that in
  double
 manual instruments the plucks were slightly staggered, or
   ruffled,
  to
 create a slight roll in the sound. Any quill strum on a lute or
  cittern
 of course rolls the chord; the rolling is built-in.
 dt
 --- On Sat, 11/17/12, Christopher Wilke
   [1][4]chriswi...@yahoo.com
  wrote:
   From: Christopher Wilke [2][5]chriswi...@yahoo.com
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
   To: Martyn Hodgson [3][6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   Cc: lute [4][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:22 AM
Martyn,
I agree with you that there is no evidence for for rolled
  chords
before the 17th century. I'm not sure we can translate this
  absence
into any pronouncements about performance practice.
Interesting that the subject of rolled chords on piano has
  been
brought into this. There are in fact many aspects of 19th
   century
performance that are in abundance in late19th/early 20th cent.
recordings but never discussed in contemporary treatises. One
  finds,
for example, that inegalite was so widespread as to be nearly
ubiquitous, even though it is not often mentioned. I haven't
  heard a
single recording or piano roll that features the type of
   rubato
  in
which the left hand truly remains in strict tempo while the
   right
 hand
plays freely around the beat, even though this is often
   discussed
  in
the treatises. Clearly, their ideas regarding strict tempo
   was
 highly
subjective and not obliged to use the type of metronomic
  exactitude
 we
would expect today. Performing this repertoire in strict
  adherence
 to
contemporary writings would lead to something quite different
  than
 the
audio recorded record reveals.
Chris
Christopher Wilke
Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
www.christopherwilke.com
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson [1][5][8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
To: Christopher Wilke [2][6][9]chriswi...@yahoo.com
Cc: lute [3][7][10]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:36 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
  Dear Chris,
  I'm not sure I agree with you when you write This lack of
specificity
  implies that the signs are merely an indication for a
  pre-existing
and
  well known practice..  It might equally imply that before
   this
 time
  the practice of 'rolled' chords was unusual.
  But please don't misunderstand my position: I'm not
  categorically
  saying that 'rolled' chords were never played pre-17th
   century;
merely
  that there's no historical evidence for the practice (unlike
  the
  position for such chords in 19th/early 20th century piano
performance).
  regards,
  Martyn
  --- On Fri, 16/11/12, Christopher Wilke
 [1][4][8][11]chriswi...@yahoo.com
wrote:
From: Christopher Wilke
   [2][5][9][12]chriswi...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
To: Martyn Hodgson
   [3][6][10][13]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk,
  Gary R.
 Boye
[4][7][11][14]boy...@appstate.edu
Cc: WALSH STUART [5][8][12][15]s.wa...@ntlworld.com,
   lute
[6][9][13][16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Friday, 16 November, 2012, 18:47
  Martyn,
  It is very telling that when

[LUTE] Re: You tube presentations

[David Tayler]

Most videos are made with an NLE--nonlinear editor. In fact, CDs are
   made the same way. It just means that the data can arranged from files
   on a disk anyway you want. If you don't have an NLE, you can get one
   from Magix (inexpensive, very good, same professional music engine as
   Sequoia/Samplitude) Abobe Elements (slightly more expensive, lots of
   built in features but somewhat oversimplified) Sony Vegas (more
   expensive, pro features) or Adobe Premiere Pro (what the pros use). I
   don't recommend the others for long and complicated reasons.
   Anyway, on your NLE, you drop in a soundtrack on the audio time line,
   then drop in your photos of the score on the video time line which
   runs along with the audio time line. It is sort of like a Burma Shave
   commercial. IF you are old enough to have seen Burma Shave, Ack. These
   images can be any format, like JPEG, TIFF or even photoshop PSD files.
   If you are using Score, Finale, etc for your score, simply export your
   pages as tiffs, jpegs, etc. If your music editor does not have an easy
   to use export crop feature, I recommend changing the paper size of your
   score to 16x9 cm or inches, doesn't matter, it is the ratio that is
   important. Technically, you want 1920x1080 pixels. Then your photos of
   your pages will be the right size. 300 dpi is plenty. If you want the
   music to float, use a photo format that supports transparency, like
   Gif--if the music floats over another image. For paper, find some nice
   real paper images and float the music over the paper. You can also use
   the cheesy built-in paper of Score, some of them are OK.
   Then drop your pages on the timeline where you want them in the music.
   If desired, add transitions for page turns. Here is a very basic one
   I did some time ago, I photographed an old sheet of paper and put the
   music over it. You can do much more complex things as well, including
   scrolling.
   http://youtu.be/xSQgvuxlvzc?hd=1
   When done, export as H264 (MP4) 1080p progressive with minimum 256
   bitrate for the audio track. You can then stream this from your
   dedicated server, if you have a server, or upload it to Vimeo or
   YouTube.
   dt
   --- On Thu, 11/22/12, Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com
   wrote:

 From: Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com
 Subject: [LUTE] You tube presentations
 To: 'Lute net' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Thursday, November 22, 2012, 5:58 AM

   I have seen on several You Tube presentations a copy of the score where
   as
   the music plays the score moves along with it. Is there an application
   which can produce this? I wish to use this on my own website.
   Thanks
   Anthony
   --
   __
   Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
   Musicologist and Independent Researcher
   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
   Tel: +356 27014791; Mob: +356 9944 9552.
   e-mail: [1]resea...@antoninoreggio.com;
   web: www.monsignor-reggio.com
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   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Happy Thanksgiving

[David Tayler]

Happy Thanksgiving from Voices of Music
   In between the Turkey and the football game, here is Dominique Labelle
   singing Vivaldi In turbato mare
   http://youtu.be/ZjAooY2vj0I?hd=1
   And also a special shout out to Luthval, who has cruised past the
   2,000,000 mark on his YouTube channel
   Awesome!

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Rolled chords

[David Tayler]

A rolled chord is an arpeggio, literally, like a harp, and these go
   back to the Early Renaissance. They probably date back to antiquity, if
   one wants to include attempts at reconstructing Lyre style from world
   music sources like the Eritrean Begena. Written out arpeggios feature
   in Mudarra's famous work of course.
   A careful analysis of harpsichord registration indicates that in double
   manual instruments the plucks were slightly staggered, or ruffled, to
   create a slight roll in the sound. Any quill strum on a lute or cittern
   of course rolls the chord; the rolling is built-in.
   dt
   --- On Sat, 11/17/12, Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
 To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:22 AM

  Martyn,
  I agree with you that there is no evidence for for rolled chords
  before the 17th century. I'm not sure we can translate this absence
  into any pronouncements about performance practice.
  Interesting that the subject of rolled chords on piano has been
  brought into this. There are in fact many aspects of 19th century
  performance that are in abundance in late19th/early 20th cent.
  recordings but never discussed in contemporary treatises. One finds,
  for example, that inegalite was so widespread as to be nearly
  ubiquitous, even though it is not often mentioned. I haven't heard a
  single recording or piano roll that features the type of rubato in
  which the left hand truly remains in strict tempo while the right
   hand
  plays freely around the beat, even though this is often discussed in
  the treatises. Clearly, their ideas regarding strict tempo was
   highly
  subjective and not obliged to use the type of metronomic exactitude
   we
  would expect today. Performing this repertoire in strict adherence
   to
  contemporary writings would lead to something quite different than
   the
  audio recorded record reveals.
  Chris
  Christopher Wilke
  Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
  www.christopherwilke.com
  - Original Message -
  From: Martyn Hodgson [1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
  To: Christopher Wilke [2]chriswi...@yahoo.com
  Cc: lute [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:36 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
Dear Chris,
I'm not sure I agree with you when you write This lack of
  specificity
implies that the signs are merely an indication for a pre-existing
  and
well known practice..  It might equally imply that before this
   time
the practice of 'rolled' chords was unusual.
But please don't misunderstand my position: I'm not categorically
saying that 'rolled' chords were never played pre-17th century;
  merely
that there's no historical evidence for the practice (unlike the
position for such chords in 19th/early 20th century piano
  performance).
regards,
Martyn
--- On Fri, 16/11/12, Christopher Wilke
   [1][4]chriswi...@yahoo.com
  wrote:
  From: Christopher Wilke [2][5]chriswi...@yahoo.com
  Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Rolled chords
  To: Martyn Hodgson [3][6]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Gary R.
   Boye
  [4][7]boy...@appstate.edu
  Cc: WALSH STUART [5][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com, lute
  [6][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Date: Friday, 16 November, 2012, 18:47
Martyn,
It is very telling that when signs for arpeggiation - i.e. separee
slashes, the % sign in Kapsberger and others' theorbo music - are
introduced, they include no information regarding speed or rhythm.
  This
lack of specificity implies that the signs are merely an
   indication
  for
a pre-existing and well known practice. How long the practice was
   in
existence and in what precise guise it was used is, as I said
   before,
inconclusive. Few would argue today that because indications for
articulation or dynamics are rare in much early written music, one
should refrain from playing with either.  (I said, few would
argue Some still do.)
Perrine's suggestions for rhythmicizing separee ciphers is the
exception that proves the rule. My suspicion is that these may not
   be
  a
literal record of contemporary lutenists' performance practice.
  Rather,
he was probably attempting to show keyboard players how to
  approximate
an idiomatic lute effect via the resources of a different medium.
  There
is a parallel in the piano works of 19th century Spanish composers
  like
Albeniz and Granados, who often evoked guitar rasgueados with fast

[LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing

[David Tayler]

It depends on the player, the technique and the size of the hands, the
   width of the fingers, etc., but in the critical spacing of the first
   three courses I would not go below 5mm center to enter between pairs
   and below 11.5 between the chanterelle and the next string over, if the
   top string is single. There is a cross point at the plucking point that
   is the real figure, that is, the width where the string plucked. As for
   the other courses, it also depends on the string material. For an early
   style lute, you can also use a close parallel spacing, but unless the
   maker knows how to do it, I would not try it.
   The reach of the hand is important in an eight course instrument, but
   that depends on the hand. So at eight courses, you may have to compress
   the spacing slightly if reach is an issue. If they live in California,
   I can take a look, but otherwise you may have to rely on a generic
   pattern, or borrow a few instruments to see if they fit. It's like
   buying shoes. You can ask what shoe size you need, but you still have
   to wear them. Ninety percent of lutes have the wrong spacing, so it is
   worth getting it right when it is built.
   dt
   --- On Sun, 11/4/12, Jerzy Zak jurek...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Jerzy Zak jurek...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] 8-ch lute strings spacing
 To: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Sunday, November 4, 2012, 5:06 PM

   Dear Lutelist,
   A student of mine is expacting a new 8-ch lute. The maker has little
   experience with an instrument of such number of courses. So we all need
   some advice from you. We need a typical spacing on both sides of
   strings, aEUR|if there is such typical spacing, of course. Anyway, at
   least a distance between the outer strings would be of help, if not all
   measurements.
   Thanks in advance!
   Jerzy Z
   ---
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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References

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[LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing

[David Tayler]

That's true, and I would add the most of the bar chord difficulty
   comes from the placement of the second course, it has to be under the
   knuckle, not the finger, or it won't work. So the spacing at the nut
   should factor in the bar chord as well.
   d
   --- On Wed, 11/14/12, Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com wrote:

 From: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: 8-ch lute strings spacing
 To: Luca Manassero l...@manassero.net
 Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012, 3:14 PM

   String spacing is indeed most important.  But I rarely (never?) see
   mentioned thickness of the neck.  For a couple of years I played an 8
   course lute with a rather thin neck, which I assumed to be normal.
   Then I got an 8 course with a thicker neck and found (I do have large
   hands) that barred chords that had been difficult on the thinner neck
   were considerably easier on the thicker neck.  I quickly got rid of the
   thinner neck instrument.  Perhaps something else to consider when
   buying a lute . . .
   Ned
   On Nov 14, 2012, at 5:52 PM, Luca Manassero wrote:
  Dear list,
  five years ago at the Neuburg (Bavaria) Summer Academy I
   happened
  to try an 8 course lute built for a friend of mine by Martin
   Shepherd:
  the strings spacing fitted so perfectly that later on I e-mailed
   Martin
  to have his strings spacing. I still use it on all my Renaissance
  instruments.
  In any case all lutemakers I approached over the last seven years
  ALWAYS asked me my strings spacing requirements: they NEVER
   simply
  used their without asking first.
  Last but not least, I have played a few exact copies of museum
  instruments: in all cases an extremely narrow strings spacing made
   them
  almost unplayable (to me). Having big hands I don't see why I
   should
  play on a very narrow, mandolin-like neck. What if the original
  instrument (aka Gerle...) was originally built for a 10 years old
  little girl?
  Luca
  David Tayler on 14/11/12 18.29 wrote:
   
   It depends on the player, the technique and the size of the hands,
   the
  width of the fingers, etc., but in the critical spacing of the
   first
  three courses I would not go below 5mm center to enter between
   pairs
  and below 11.5 between the chanterelle and the next string over, if
   the
  top string is single. There is a cross point at the plucking point
   that
  is the real figure, that is, the width where the string plucked. As
   for
  the other courses, it also depends on the string material. For an
   early
  style lute, you can also use a close parallel spacing, but unless
   the
  maker knows how to do it, I would not try it.
  The reach of the hand is important in an eight course instrument,
   but
  that depends on the hand. So at eight courses, you may have to
   compress
  the spacing slightly if reach is an issue. If they live in
   California,
  I can take a look, but otherwise you may have to rely on a generic
  pattern, or borrow a few instruments to see if they fit. It's like
  buying shoes. You can ask what shoe size you need, but you still
   have
  to wear them. Ninety percent of lutes have the wrong spacing, so it
   is
  worth getting it right when it is built.
  dt
  --- On Sun, 11/4/12, Jerzy Zak [1][1]jurek...@gmail.com wrote:
   
From: Jerzy Zak [2][2]jurek...@gmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] 8-ch lute strings spacing
To: lute mailing list list [3][3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sunday, November 4, 2012, 5:06 PM
   
  Dear Lutelist,
  A student of mine is expacting a new 8-ch lute. The maker has
   little
  experience with an instrument of such number of courses. So we all
   need
  some advice from you. We need a typical spacing on both sides of
  strings, aEUR|if there is such typical spacing, of course.
   Anyway, at
  least a distance between the outer strings would be of help, if not
   all
  measurements.
  Thanks in advance!
  Jerzy Z
  ---
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [1][4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
  --
   
References
   
  1. [5][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
References
   
  1. mailto:[6]jurek...@gmail.com
  2. mailto:[7]jurek...@gmail.com
  3. mailto:[8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  5. [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=jurek...@gmail.com
   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=jurek...@gmail.com
   3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin

[LUTE] Re: Reconstructing Dowland; deconstructing Dowland

[David Tayler]

Of course the original sources are fine, I sort of have a question
   about whether they are like those half-baked loaves of bread in the
   store that you heat up at home--whether some of the details were left
   out so you could provide them at the time of playing, or whether there
   were, as I suspect, conventions or rules for filling in the details
   that people knew and did not have to write down. Otherwise it is sort
   of a raw toast scenario.
   When Lumsden made his editions, he basically corrected some of the
   pieces, sometimes in a very clever way, but sometimes so that they lost
   their character. And for me that is what I would like to avoid, so I go
   for versions that have their own character.
   dt
   --- On Tue, 11/13/12, Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net wrote:

 From: Dan Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Reconstructing Dowland; deconstructing Dowland
 To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Cc: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 2:22 PM

   Thank you Professor Tayler!
   Excellent points, exquisite playing, and -from what I can hear on my
   wretched computer- a correct  satisfying tenor line. That would have
   been a bit slow tempo for me some years ago, but as I age it's becoming
   pleasant to take more time with things. And enjoy the work of others
   who do.
   In my own career as a lazy consumer of lute food, I just plays 'em as I
   finds 'em. If one version doesn't smell right for one reason or
   another, I search until I find one that does. And a few times, I have
   also bit the bullet and corrected inner voices- to the best of my
   relatively limited, less-educated ability. Many, many of the solos
   exist as lute songs- and of course the Lachrimae, or Seaven Teares...
   consort edition- and these sources can provide some guidance for
   improving the helter-skelter lute solos. And mentally slapping my own
   wrist as I try to monitor my impulse to dribble out some crass
   ornamentation at times. (Tourette's Syndrome on the lute can get ugly
   if not kept in check.)
   One of these days you should do another local luter's workshop- this
   time on the Dowland solos, (and maybe a couple of Danyel, Rossiter, 
   Holborne tunes as well). I'll supply the single malt, maybe even the
   premises, if that helps...
   Dan
   On 11/13/2012 12:33 PM, David Tayler wrote:
 Most of Dowland's lute solos come down to use a sketch--two
   outside
lines, a few chords, and some noodly appendages--ornaments
   added by
lutebook owners or their copyists.
Many conclusions can be drawn, but the basic question remains,
   what to
do with all of these sources? Obviously, performing them as is
   is one
solution, and perfectly fine--a snapshot in time of what a lute
   player
of the time would have played. Absoutely OK, and there it is, in
   the
ms. But suppose there is more?
The other path is to add inner voices and strip out the noodly
appendages. I've given this quite a bit of thought over the last
twenty-five years, and I have a few simple guidelines.
1. Eliminate parallel fifths and octaves. Dowland never wrote bad
counterpoint, so these have to go. Famous example is the version
   of
Lachrimae with the parallel fifth in the opening phrase, even
   though
Dowland's published version is different.
2. Strip out orbiting noodly appendages. One sure sign of
   cookbook,
color-by-number ornaments are those that present a set of added
   melodic
sequences that start and end on the same note. Accomplished
   composers
rarely use these, they are intended mainly for students. By
   returning
to the same note, you mostly avoid the problem of parallel
   octaves and
fifths, thus, an amateur who could not read music and did not
   study
counterpoint could provide correct counterpoint in simple
   ornaments.
Ornamentation treatises mention this trick as a way to dive in to
ornamentation: nothing wrong with it, but it is for
   beginners--not
Dowland.
3. Make sure cadences have leading tones somewhere in the bar,
   and end
chords with thirds in the harmony. Although you see open fifths
   in mid
century lute works, by 1590 you mainly see full harmony. A
   skilled
player would not play G Major with a third and C Major without
   the
third just to avoid fifth position, and you see this in the ms
   sources.
Whether these open chords were simply sketches, or intentionally
   left
to the play to fill in, foreshadowing later works such as Visee,
   these
need leading tones.
4. Inner parts. Dowland's works at an absolute minimum always
   support a
tenor or alto part, or both. If they are missing, they need to be
supplied. There are a myriad of examples

[LUTE] Re: Chitarrone

[David Tayler]

Research into the Chitarrone stopped after the publication of the
   famous article by Spencer, et al. This had the astonishing effect of
   erasing, removing and deleting the Chitarrone from the early music
   performance revival. Collateral effects include the sidelining of the
   many other types of extended neck instruments that were developed in
   the early 17th century. Renewed interest into the research of this and
   other instruments will yield clues as to the specific meanings of the
   contemporaneous terms as well as hopefully renew interest in playing
   the instruments.
   Erasing instruments is not new; the dulcian was completely erased for
   decades before one was discovered with an identifying label in a sunken
   pirate ship. Now people are playing it again.
   --- On Tue, 10/16/12, Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Chitarrone
 To: List LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 6:11 PM

  The Grove Dictionaire says about the chitarrone:
  The type of lute denoted by this humanist, classicizing term
  (chitarrone means, literally, a large kithara) was associated
  particularly with Jacopo Peri, Giulio Caccini and the other early
  writers of monody from the 1590s until about 1630.
  Has anybody challenged this etymology? Wouldn't be safe to say it
  simply derived from the chitarra (guitar)? Is was developed in the
  first place to acompany, playing chordally from a contino line, just
   as
  the 5 course guitar would do, though without the struming technique.
  The solo repertoire that came later looks very close to the guitar
  writing: chords a little counterpoint, arpeggios, slurs, campanellas
  efect e so on...
  --
  Bruno Correia
  Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
  historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
  Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
  Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
  --
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References

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[LUTE] Re: What's the historical reason for the bent down peg box?

[David Tayler]

   You ask, by the look on your face
   Why the pegbox bends back at the base
   It's not Broken, awry
   Or to stick in your eye
   It's just so it'll fit in the case

   --


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[LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes

[David Tayler]

This is great--did not know about these strings.
   dt
   --- On Wed, 7/11/12, Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, JarosAA'aw Lipski
 jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
 Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 8:29 AM

  Kurschner (in Europe) makes 'Luxline' strings described below:
  LK, LS Luxline
  The Luxline is a string especially designed by us to give an even
  transition between plain gut and wound strings, similar to an open
  wound string in function. It does away with the inherent problems of
  openwound strings because the wire is embedded in the gut, giving a
  relatively smooth surface, thereby relieving bowing and left hand
  difficulties. Suitable for bowed and plucked instruments and here
  especially as diapasons on Theorbo, Chitarrone and Archiliuto.
   Luxlines
  with solid silver wire are somewhat brighter than those with copper
  wire, but only available up to 1,60 mm equivalent diameter.
  MH
  --- On Wed, 11/7/12, JarosAA'aw Lipski [1]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   wrote:
From: JarosAA'aw Lipski [2]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
Subject: [LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes
To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Wednesday, 11 July, 2012, 14:26
  I am afraid I agree with Ron. Tinctoris tells us about the German
  invention of brass strings which were added to enhance the sonority.
   He
  doesn't give precise instructions on how it was done, so it can be
  interpreted in 3 ways (as I wrote before). BTW,  Ore is not equal
   to
  brass. Ore means Calamine and only with a copper addition it gives a
  proper brass. However Tinctoris probably had brass in mind when
   writing
  ore.
  Gimped gut is not exactly the same as gut on metal core. I won't
  discuss gimped strings in detail as the full info is available at
   Gamut
  website [1][4]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/gimped-gut/ ,but
   gimped
  means that the wire is twisted with gut. The other type could have a
  metal core and gut twisted on brass. In this case a wire wouldn't be
  visible at all unlike gimped gut which gives a barber-pole or
  candy-stripe appearance. It would only enhance the mass of a string,
  diminish its diameter and add to sonority. Unfortunately no one
   makes
  this type of strings in Europe (as David mentioned).
  I think it could be beneficial to ask a Latin expert on exact
   meaning
  of Tinctoris's text.
  All the best
  Jaroslaw
  WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Mathias RAP:sel w dniu 11 lip 2012, o
  godz. 14:11:
   Thirdly, as I mentioned earlier, a translation from original
   Latin
  text doesn't give
   a clear idea whether Tinctoris writes about plain wire, gimped
   gut,
  or wire used
   as a core for a gut string.
  
   The text is pretty clear IMO. It says they added an octave string
   of
  ore (i.e. bronze) to their lowest course (i.e. 5th). Plain metal,
  neither gimped gut nor wire used as a core for a gut string (which
   is
  pretty much the same, if I'm not mistaken).
  
   That may not imply, of course, that the author Tintoris was right.
   I
  for one, though, tend to believe him.
  
   Mathias
  
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
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   References
  1. [6]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/gimped-gut/
  2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/gimped-gut/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/gimped-gut/
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes

[David Tayler]

The gimped gut I have seen is essentially a gut string with wire
   pressed into it. I'm speaking of a wire string that is essentially
   invisible--the core, not the whole string as it would be wound with
   gut.
   I personally find the transition to overspun strings completely
   unsatisfactory, and I suspect this was an important concern for ren 
   baroque players.
   d
   --- On Mon, 7/9/12, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes
 To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, July 9, 2012, 1:22 PM

   On 9 July 2012 21:48, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
   Theoretically, a length of wire could be covered with gut or silk
   to
   produce a string with ideal properties, and strings used on some
   non-western instruments use this type of string--the wire is on
   the
   inside, so it does not affect the pluck. However, no one makes
   this
   lute string,
   Dan Larson makes Gimpoed (gut on metal). Savarez makes gut on carbon
   (I'm sure I have the details wrong here, but that was what I was told
   and shown last week, but frankly, I wasn't all that interested ...)
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
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References

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   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: brass strings on 15th century lutes

[David Tayler]

Musicians in the medieval and renaissance periods used all available
   string material, although it is likely that gut and wire were the most
   popular.
   This includes brass and earlier versions of drawn wire.
   Gold alloy strings were used on harpsichords, and lasted more or less
   forever, as they could be melted down and redrawn if they broke.
   Violinists are known to have used wire as well.
   Theoretically, a length of wire could be covered with gut or silk  to
   produce a string with ideal properties, and strings used on some
   non-western instruments use this type of string--the wire is on the
   inside, so it does not affect the pluck. However, no one makes this
   lute string, although it would be easier to make than a lute. One could
   even take nylgut or nylon and use that as the wrapper to produce a
   durable substitute that would not have a transition effect like
   overspun strings.
   Also theoretically, had a such a string existed, which seems likely
   since it solves the diameter problem, the move to overspun strings
   could have been made simply because those strings were louder or easier
   to manufacture.
   The impetus to have louder strings of course was less of a problem than
   it is now, owing to the prevalent acoustic environment. Baroque
   instruments are far louder than they were even twenty years ago, as
   people use thinner bridges, heavier bows with more bow hair, and high
   tension strings on bowed instruments. My small archlute was loud enough
   in the 1980s, now it would be drowned out.
   As more and more information goes online, and is searchable, it becomes
   relatively easy to view historical performance practice, which until
   recently was available, but not instantly available worldwide.
   Basically, uniformity, whether it applies to technique, the sources of
   music and mss, strings or types of instruments, is a twentieth century
   phenomenon that has no basis in the historical record.
   Materials that were unavailable would be for example nylon, nylgut,
   carbon fiber, titanium, and so on.
   Just as original glues can create a very strong bond, so can original
   string materials create a strong sound. However, if you want loud,
   learn the tuba.
   dt
   --- On Sun, 7/8/12, WALSH STUART s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:

 From: WALSH STUART s.wa...@ntlworld.com
 Subject: [LUTE] brass strings on 15th century lutes
 To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 2:52 PM

  (perhaps this has been discussed before)
  Tinctoris (c.1480) commented  on the German invention of brass
   strings
  [on lutes] which were added 'tuned very deeply through an octave' by
  means of which 'the sound is rendered not only stronger, but also
   very
  much sweeter'. (Keith Polk, German Instrumental Music of the Middle
  Ages p.22, 1992).
  Polk, somewhere else in the same book, talks about the 'ever
   reliable
  Tinctoris'. I've never heard of wire-strung lutes (apart from
  lute-bodied citterns in the late 18th century).
  Anyone know what Tinctoris is talking about?
  Stuart
  --
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[LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far?

[David Tayler]

Harry Fox is one of the collection agencies that leans to the trolling
   side, that is, you may get flagged for material that seems to be
   completely unrelated to your work, even referring to a different work,
   and they don't answer your email.
   Since they have a fax number, I would suggest sending a fax, stating
   that they are infringing on your revenue or rights or whatever.
   I'm assuming that you disputed it, and since they probably will not
   get back to you the claim will disappear after one month.
   It is important to remember a few things here.
   First, you dispute will not be read by anyone with any knowledge of
   anything, so to try to present a reasonable, logical case is a complete
   waste of time. You need to show proof.
   Second, there is no point in saying you made an arrangement, as that
   will look suspect.
   Third, if it is your edition, you should write and sign a letter saying
   that you own all the rights to the edition (which, if it really is your
   edition, you do). In the letter, you must grant permission to your
   channel to use your work including all distro rights.
   Fourth, if there is an online, PD version free and clear, you should
   make it a priority to link to it. State, I used IMSLP, and here is the
   link. No way for them to wriggle around that.
   In general, the copyright laws are quite complex. For example there are
   many, many cases where one edition lifts material from another one. Who
   owns the copyrights then? Well, no way to determine that.  Best to
   steer clear completely away.
   What does YouTube want? They want to keep it online and not have to
   deal with it.
   So they need a CYA letter from you, a clear, concise single letter that
   assign any and all distribution rights to the performance, the edition,
   and any artwork or graphics--saying you have the rights from edition X
   (your edition) or a link to the PD file, or both.
   The trolls will not go away. They reason is that 50 percent of the
   troll-ees will neither know nor care, and trolls just collect the ad
   revenue for no work. Free money for them. They aren't interested in
   your work or rights. There is a head bean-counter just counting videos.
   And that is it, EOS.
   95 percent of my videos are flagged immediately, and half of those are
   flagged by three or four different freeloaders. Obviously they can't
   all be right, and YouTube knows they are trolls. Just dispute it, write
   a formal letter (safe it as a template), and wait.
   Your video will show disputed and no ads will appear.
   dt
   --- On Thu, 7/5/12, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: YouTube going too far?
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012, 7:14 AM

   On 5 July 2012 16:05, Ron Andrico [1]praelu...@hotmail.com wrote:
To make a long story short, the only words Youtube needs to see in
   response
is that the music is in the Public Domain, or the person posting the
   music
is the verified copyright holder.  The challenge is then
   automatically
withdrawn.
   It is not. Because this is the second time YouTube challenges this
   particular (and not at all popular) video. I'm not in it for the
   money, but coorperation claiming Greensleeves simply feels wrong.
   I also post 'fingerstyle covers' of pop songs (I've just recorded
   Paradise by Sade, early music of sorts. I will upload later today).
   Obviously these are far more popular, and obviously there are
   copyright holders involved who claim their share. Fair enough. But
   Greensleeves ...
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
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   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Tynwald Day

[David Tayler]

Happy Tynwald Day!
Some delicious Scarlatti for your entertainment.
http://youtu.be/QrEpRJR4pFc?hd=1



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[LUTE] Re: Youtube claims

[David Tayler]

Keep a screen capture of each claim.
   dt
   --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr wrote:

 From: Valery Sauvage sauvag...@orange.fr
 Subject: [LUTE] Youtube claims
 To: 'Lute Net' lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 11:30 PM

   I have the same problems, most of the time with music guitarist plays,
   as
   this music is edited by some publishers in guitar transcriptions. They
   have
   a special function looking for every video if it  is matching title,
   music,
   composer's name or other meta data, then there is an automatic claim.
   So it
   is for Bach, Dowland, De Visee, Milan, Narvaez...
   So you have to go to copyright infos, and disput the claim (there is
   a
   disput process in two or three windows...). My argumentation is :
   public
   domain music, played by myself from original sources. And it is enough
   to
   stop the claim. (and get rid of the ads...)
   Val
   -Message d'origine-
   De : [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   De la part
   de David van Ooijen
   Envoye : samedi 12 mai 2012 21:55
   A : Lute Net
   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Goe From My Window (Folger Library)
   On 12 May 2012 09:57, Stuart Walsh [3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote:
My Window'.  Two odd things:  adverts appeared on it and youtube said
   that
the tune was copyright and the copyright belongs to 'rumblefish'!
   
I've contested this and for the moment the ads have gone away.
   I'm harassed by YouTube as well. For early music, like my most recent
   De Visee / Coste clip. I keep telling them Tallis is Dead (they never
   heard of Byrd). But so far every time I contested their claims
   (they're not claims actually, they say they cannot verify my claims),
   they eventually withdraw their objections, so I do keep contesting.
   I think we should keep protesting, because if we keep silent we
   certainly loose out (we will loose out anyway probably ...)
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
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References

   1. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   4. file://localhost/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Re: Dürer

[David Tayler]

Years ago, I submitted the Durer lute-perspective as a letter to
   partially rebut the camera obscura debate (they maintained that that
   was no evidence of a mechanism for perspective) but it was never
   published.
   -

   --


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[LUTE] Re: Android app for recording lute

[David Tayler]

Zoom H2 and live the good life.
   --- On Mon, 4/30/12, Adam Olsen arol...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Adam Olsen arol...@gmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Android app for recording lute
 To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, April 30, 2012, 1:21 PM

   Is there a good app for recording yourself on Android?  I tried a few
   apps, but the sound came out very distorted and blown out.  I know the
   phone's microphone is better than that, because if I use the video
   camera app it sounds fine.
   Any suggestions?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Bach's Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed

[David Tayler]

All the gambists I know live on it and think Forqueray 5th suite is
   way harder.
   --- On Mon, 4/30/12, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:

 From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
 Subject: Bach's Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed
 To: David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com, lute net
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, April 30, 2012, 11:51 AM

   All the gambists I know (a goodly #) dread playing that aria.
   RT
   - Original Message -
   From: David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   To: lute net [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:46 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Bach's Lute Suites: This Moth is Blessed
On 30 April 2012 20:34, Roman Turovsky [3]r.turov...@verizon.net
   wrote:
JSB didn't play gamba either as evidenced by his reassignment of
   nicely
playable lute part in the MatthaeusPassion to an impossible one for
   gamba
in
the 2nd version.
Any gambist would tell you that that gamba part is pure hell.
   
   
Another blanket statement I beg to differ with, as my gamba friend
   are
generally happy with the Suesses Kreuz aria and find it to work well
on their instruments, however much I try to persuade them to give it
back to me. ;-) But then again, some of these gambis must have played
the piece hundreds of times over the years. It's remarkable, btw, how
much the character of the aria changes when the obligato part is
played on a lute. Easier, lighter, 'Suesser' as opposed to heavy,
   hard
and 'Kreuzig'. I keep telling conductors, but playing Bach passions
   is
another of those established habits enshrined in today's Early Music
Esperanto.
   
David - back to St. John
   
   
--
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David van Ooijen
[4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***
   
   
   
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   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=r.turov...@verizon.net
   4. file://localhost/mc/compose?to%c3%9avidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted

[David Tayler]

I have to say for me I think the available evidence points nowhere.
   People can't even agree on whether the pieces are playable on the lute,
   and not only that, playability is not an indicator of authorship or
   orchestration, so who cares? All this stuff about the original intent
   of the composer is really about the intent about the people who write
   the articles.
   Shorter Bach: Can't play it? Please practice. Don't like it? Make an
   arrangement.
   --- On Sun, 4/29/12, Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net wrote:

 From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net
 Subject: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
 To: lutenet lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Sunday, April 29, 2012, 7:42 PM

   Jarek,
   I thinks the available evidence pretty much points where Clive thinks
   it does, and I am inclined to agree with him, notwithstanding Vasily
   Antipov,
   an excellent Russian player who actually can perform Lute Suites as
   written (he knows no technical difficulties).
   The Lute Suites are simply not performable by an average professional
   player (unlike the rest of JSB's works), and that is the ultimate
   giveaway
   (besides being out of lutenistic character).
   RT
   From: JarosAA'aw Lipski [1]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   Roman,
   I do not share your dislike for musicology. It pays really big service
   to all of us I suppose. It has its rules and  trespassing them creates
   the effect you are talking about. I am just saying that the available
   evidence on so called Lute Suites does not entitle us to make very
   definite statements that Bach never ever wrote anything with a lute in
   mind apart from 2 small movements in his Passions. It would be not too
   difficult to create a contradictory theory, but this kind of
   speculation seems to be rather a waste of time.
   JL
   WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Roman Turovsky w dniu 29 kwi 2012, o
   godz. 23:01:
a geetar then.
Phrases like there is some likelihood that item X might very well
   could have been item Y
may work in some musicological situations, but not in the case of our
   Lute Suites.
RT
   
- Original Message - From: JarosAA'aw Lipski
   [2]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
To: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:50 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re: Re: Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
   
   
but in this case a spade is not a spade :)
JL
   
   
WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Roman Turovsky w dniu 29 kwi 2012, o
   godz. 22:32:
   
Yes,
but -
sometimes we have to give up the musicological mumbo-jumbo,
and just call a spade a spade.
RT
   
- Original Message - From: JarosAA'aw Lipski
   [4]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 4:24 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re: Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
   
   
Eugene,
   
Well, saying that the evidence would be that Bach did not write
   any music specifically intended for solo lute sounds to me (do correct
   me if I'm wrong) a little bit like a definite statement or a  final
   argument, doesn't it? There is nothing wrong in having doubts and
   expressing them publicly, but making new theories is another matter. I
   greatly recommend David Ledbetters book Unaccompanied Bach (as
   mentioned) which deals with all available data concerning this subject
   in detail. There are many question marks and unfortunately no simple
   answers so far, I am afraid.
However it can be agreed that there are no so called Bach lute
   suites if we understand them the same way that some guitarists used to
   believe in past, but then the question is what guitarist and how can we
   judge someones knowledge. It's much better to present  bare facts
   letting people decide what they can make of it, IMHO.
My 2 cents
   
Best regards
   
Jaroslaw
   
   
   
WiadomoAAAe/= napisana przez Braig, Eugene w dniu 26 kwi 2012, o
   godz. 22:01:
   
I wholeheartedly agree, jl.  Fortunately, I don't believe the
   little article discussed here did make any such definitive statements.
   I think it did a fair job of presenting evidence with relative
   objectivity.
   
Eugene

From: [6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
   on behalf of JarosAA'aw Lipski [[8]jaroslawlip...@wp.pl]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 3:06 PM
To: [9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re:   Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
   
Discussion is always a good thing, the problem begins when
   someone makes very definite statements like-  the evidence would be
   that Bach did not write any music specifically intended for solo lute
-  or -You know what I am going to say nextaEURperhaps you
   should sit down
I understand that it was addressed to guitar players, but still
   we need more evidence before trying to convince someone that A or 

[LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   The planting is an interesting topic which one could discuss from
   many angles, however, the essence here is that if youplant the
   finger, you stop it from vibrating. So for legato playing, one must
   drive through or use a combination of set and drive through. There
   are times when some of the fingers of both hands need to be
   pre-positioned. In the video you can see that I put some of the fingers
   down into the strings before I use them., trying to stop only one of
   the two strings. Other times I do not and drive through the strings.
   Important to mention that this is just what I have figured out for
   myself after forty+ years of noodling, it isn't the right way.
   There are so many ways to strike the string and that is why the lute is
   so intriguing and subtle in articulation.
   However, when this is not the case, as in playing a riff  or a simpler
   textures I recommend driving through the strings, which in turn
   requires enough space between the pairs, and a very well timed and
   placed stroke.In driving through the strings, ideally the string makes
   a new note BEFORE the old note has ended. Technically, this overlapping
   of notes is called over legato.
   The reason that this is important is that the big advantage of double
   strings is that they can ring through better than single strings, and,
   interestingly, thumb out and thumb over ring through best, however,
   thumb in makes a rounder sound at the expense of legato.
   It is not always possible to play over legato, but it is an important
   sound for the lute.
   Sometimes, those fingers really net to be set in place.
   I think I have a sneaking suspicion that if I could raise my technique
   two levels higher, I could drive through every string on every note.
   I have seen classical guitarists come close to this, of course, it is
   harder on double strings. Alas, I may not get there! But never say
   never.
   dt
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Thu, April 26, 2012 9:46:32 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 Thanks David,
 That's very helpful and a systematic analysis.
 The approach I've used for most of my lutes is to use the string
 spacing of an old 9c lute (label Matteus Vogt) as a starting
 point.  It belonged to the Lute Society at one time.  I took a
   rubbing
 of the strings (as did a few other UK makers) and measuring it just
 now, it pretty much fits the criteria you specify regarding the
   spacing
 at bridge and nut.  In fact comparing it with the spacings I now have
 for many other old lutes, it's pretty much average.
 The point about hitting the two strings together is, of course,
 important.  I had lessons from Diana Poulton (thumb out, close to
 bridge) and Michael Schaeffer (thumb inside, close to rose) who were
 both very particular about that issue and the tone production that
 resulted.  Both said that the finger should be planted on the strings
 so you could feel them both, before plucking.  There were, of course,
 at that time many very eminient lutenists still using nail, and one
 told me that he was happy to hit one of the strings and the other
   would
 vibrate in sympathy!
 Your other point about the second course lying under the knuckle of
   the
 first lh finger is one I haven't come across before - I'll check my
 lutes and see how they measure up against that one.
 As far as the nut is concerned, I agree that unless you have a
   spacing
 that works for you, some experimentation is needed.  I wonder if you
 ever came across any of Jacob van der Geest's lutes?  He made lots of
 very narrow (0.5mm?), shallow grooves side by side right across the
   nut
 and the player could place the strings to suit him/herself.  I'm not
 sure how successful it was, but his instruments were certainly much
 revered at one time.
 Anyway - Plenty to think about there.
 Thanks again!
 Bill
 From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: lute [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Thursday, 26 April 2012, 2:01
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
   Take a small, thin piece of wood 5mm, 5.2mm and so on
   Place it carefully between the paired strings, right at the bridge,
   careful not to scratch the soundboard or damage your strings (you
   can
   smooth the wood if you use gut.
   Increase the 2nd and 3rd course width until you can hit two strings
   clearly and cleanly.
   Then measure, then adjust. Start with 5.2mm
   If your nut spacing is too close, you can make a very, very thin
   mark
   with a file
   Then move one string out wider at the nut.
   You will quickly find the best ratio with no math needed :)
   Just don't

[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted

[David Tayler]

   Let's see, Bach owned a lute, but didn't play it. Probably used it for
   a planter.
   In all seriousness, this argument hinges on the idea of an urtext,
   which is simply not tenable for a composer who arranged and rearranged
   his own works as well as the works of other composers. We don't know
   how Bach--and others--played this music, but the lautenwerk, the organ,
   clavichord, lute, archlute, gallichon, all possibilities.
   Certainly a lute player might have come up with a scordatura that would
   be quite fabulous, and they of course sound great on the lautenwerk.
   Classic example? Toccata and fugue is really not by Bach and also for
   the violin. OK, or it really is by Bach and sounds great on the organ.
   The consistent model is that Bach composed for instruments in his
   house--the viol, the lute, the harpsichord, the lautenwerk, the violin,
   viola, and so on, as well as many other instruments.
   And while I think it is more likely, even very likely, that these
   pieces are for lautenwerk, it is quite possible that someone someday
   will play them on some kind of lute perfectly. Without 2000 edits :)
   Add virtuoso, rinse, take the repeats.
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: Luca Manassero l...@manassero.net; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 7:01:08 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
 I won't believe it until it appears on Mythbusters :)
 Bill
 From: Luca Manassero [1]l...@manassero.net
 To: [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 14:37
 Subject: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
   An interesting post:

   [1][1][3]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-
   thi
 s-m
   yth-is-busted-part-i/
   Luca
 References
   1.

   [2][4]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-thi
   s-m
 yth-is-busted-part-i/
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1.
   [6]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
 2.
   [7]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
   yth-is-busted-part-i/
 3. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:l...@manassero.net
   2. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-thi
   4. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-m
   7. 
http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suites-this-myth-is-busted-part-i/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: 4060

[David Tayler]

   Since I'm a hippie and believe all music should be free, some good must
   come from this.
   However, since I run a group and believe people should be paid, why
   don't you set up a PayPal donation event and I will be happy to chip
   in. And I imagine others would as well.
   I have often paid for mss to be scanned at libraries, knowing full well
   that others would benefit from these mss being bumped to the head of
   the inevitable line, to quote Dr. Blow.
   All mss will be scanned, of course. Only when? I just wish it had all
   been sooner before I ruined my eyes in the microfilm booth.
   However, I think it would be nice to share the cost.
   dt

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   Take a small, thin piece of wood 5mm, 5.2mm and so on
   Place it carefully between the paired strings, right at the bridge,
   careful not to scratch the soundboard or damage your strings (you can
   smooth the wood if you use gut.
   Increase the 2nd and 3rd course width until you can hit two strings
   clearly and cleanly.
   Then measure, then adjust. Start with 5.2mm
   If your nut spacing is too close, you can make a very, very thin mark
   with a file
   Then move one string out wider at the nut.
   You will quickly find the best ratio with no math needed :)
   Just don't make it too wide, or the total span will be too wide.
   If you have very small hands, you may have to go with roughly
   parallel where the spacing is narrow at the bridge and a bit wider at
   the nut. But I dodn't advise this as it does not always work.
   Gottlieb's lutes are sometimes set up perfect in narrow, roughly
   parallel And they are really nice lutes, very interesting sound.
   When I was 17, I guess this would be 1972, I just could not stand this
   buzz. So I took a chopstick, and made tiny spacers for the nut.
   I made a nut, then sawed it into slices. Each slice was a pair of
   strings, and I moved the pieces around till I figured it out.
   Buzz free since then.
   However, the thin lines is easier. You can make a practice nut if you
   do not want to mess up the one you have.
   Incidentally, course two MUST and I mean MUST lie under the knuckle, or
   you will never make a good bar chord sound. That's another story
   Basically, with the right stroke, and the right setup, the lute is easy
   to play, because it was an instrument that everyone played.
   However, if you have not learned to strike two strings dead on, you may
   have some difficulty. Most people do not have the right stroke because
   the spacing is wrong.
   Then someone like Ron McFarlane can show you, or a few other people, to
   hit two strings.
   'That's where the pedagogical skill comes in. It takes ten minutes,
   plain and simple, to show someone. Maybe someone could do it in five.
   I made a lute video recently with a macro cam that shows the stroke I
   use, but you are free to find your own, and everyone's hand is
   different.
   There is no right way to play. But the buzzing, the splats, it is too
   much--I find it unacceptable. Sure you can edit them all out in a
   recording--and that is exactly what happens.
   But what is the point?
   Your choice, ten years or ten minutes! Personally, if I had a lute that
   was not set up right, I would sell it. Too much aggravation. But some
   people don't mind, and the vast majority of people think their lute is
   just right, so that is really OK, as well.
   dt
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 11:32:00 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 I haven't come across that formula David.  Can you please point me to
   a
 source for the recipe?  It could save a lot of time and money!
 Thanks,
 Bill
 From: David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 18:57
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 Simple geometry.
 It's all been worked out, unlike forty years ago when we worked it
   out.
 No different from buying clothes.
 dt
 At 11:55 PM 4/9/2012, you wrote:
   A luthier would need a formula relating hand dimensions (hand span,
   fistmele and so on) in order to build a lute that's exactly the
   right size for a particular player.  Without such a formula, all
   the
   luthier gets is a headache when asked to build a lute that's the
   right size for a particular player.
   If it's down to the player to decide what spacings they need, how
   will they determine that without having a selection of instruments
   to try first?  Not as easy as in the time of Laux Maler as David
   Van
   Edwards so amusingly pointed out!
   I don't see how making exact copies of original instruments
   actually
   helps here - There are variations in these too - Compare, for
   example the well-known 7c Hieber with the 7c Venere of about the
   same size (58/59cm?).  The Hieber has a wide string spacing at the
   nut end, and the Venere is almost impossibly narrow here for most
   players I know.  Otherwise, there's not a lot of difference in
   dimensions - bridge spacing, scale, body dimensions . . .
   I sympathise with your point of view, but can't see how these
   objectives can be achieved in practice without buying, trying and
   then rejecting a goodish number of instruments.
   Bill
   From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu

[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] [LUTE] [LUTE] Bach’s Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted

[David Tayler]

   For me the point is that Carolyn Abbate fimly trounced the notion of an
   urtext thirty years ago :)
   I just don't see any point in revisiting it. It turns out that
   composition works like quantum mechanics, the closer you look, the
   fuzzier it gets.
   So all this linear provenance, composers intent, etc, that went out the
   window years ago. I mean, no one is saying don't speculate, but it is
   just speculation.
   As far as Bach renting instruments, that proves one of two things.
   First, that he probaly did not rent them, because they would not have
   been in his household inventory at the time of his death, and, second,
   in the extremely unlikely event that he rented them, he must have
   wanted them. Here's my 2 euro cents. The gamba sonatas, some of the
   greatest music ever written for gamba, composed on a rent-a-viol?  Good
   thing they didn't get repo'd!
   And there was no ocarina on his shelf. Just instruments that happened
   to be used in the finest sacred pieces composed in the baroque
   period--the John and Matthew passions.
   Coincidence? Equally likely, IMHO, finding a moon rock in an astronauts
   luggage. And I mean no disrespect, it just seems awfully tidy.
   And I missing something, and maybe someone here can help me, but the
   page marked unplayable in the article, doesn't this work fine on the
   archlute?
   Of all the arguments, playability certainly is intriguing.
   dt
 __

   From: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 11:31:40 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] [LUTE] [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth
   is Busted
   I think the point, David, is that the music we have inherited as
   Bach's works for lute doesn't have any linear provenance to actually
   connect them to an intention by Bach for them to be performed on lute.
   That said, transcriptions of any Bach music are as legitimately lute
   as the alleged lute works.
   Sure, he may have dabbled on a lute in his own collection, but who
   knows with what music?  While I own a Viennese ocarina, jaw-harp,
   6-hole American cedar flute, chromatic harmonica, etc. there's little
   likelihood of me composing music for any of them within my lifetime.
   (Granted, I am not anything like a properly trained composer.)
   As Titmuss points out, there is some speculation Bach also rented
   instruments.  If so, I wouldn't necessarily expect an intimate
   compositional familiarity with the pieces in his rental stable.
   Eugene
   -Original Message-
   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of David Tayler
   Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:17 PM
   To: lute
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is
   Busted
 Let's see, Bach owned a lute, but didn't play it. Probably used it
   for
 a planter.
 In all seriousness, this argument hinges on the idea of an urtext,
 which is simply not tenable for a composer who arranged and
   rearranged
 his own works as well as the works of other composers. We don't know
 how Bach--and others--played this music, but the lautenwerk, the
   organ,
 clavichord, lute, archlute, gallichon, all possibilities.
 Certainly a lute player might have come up with a scordatura that
   would
 be quite fabulous, and they of course sound great on the lautenwerk.
 Classic example? Toccata and fugue is really not by Bach and also for
 the violin. OK, or it really is by Bach and sounds great on the
   organ.
 The consistent model is that Bach composed for instruments in his
 house--the viol, the lute, the harpsichord, the lautenwerk, the
   violin,
 viola, and so on, as well as many other instruments.
 And while I think it is more likely, even very likely, that these
 pieces are for lautenwerk, it is quite possible that someone someday
 will play them on some kind of lute perfectly. Without 2000 edits :)
 Add virtuoso, rinse, take the repeats.
   __
 From: William Samson [3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 To: Luca Manassero [4]l...@manassero.net;
   [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 [6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 7:01:08 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
   I won't believe it until it appears on Mythbusters :)
   Bill
   From: Luca Manassero [1][7]l...@manassero.net
   To: [2][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 14:37
   Subject: [LUTE] Bach's Lute Suites: This Myth is Busted
 An interesting post:

   [1][1][3][9]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04/bachs-lute-suit
   es-
 thi
   s-m
 yth-is-busted-part-i/
 Luca
   References
 1.

   [2][4][10]http://www.classicalguitarcanada.ca/2012/04

[LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   If you follow the link and use HD plus the pause button in full screen
   you can see close ups of striking two strings.
   However, it is better to be shown how to do it by a real person :)
   You can see in the video that one string (the near string) goes under
   the other one, and both strings are plucked with a slight curved
   stroke. Also you can see that my fingers are well below the strings.
   Now I'm not saying that is the right way to do it, and, indeed, I use
   four or five hand positions, thumb over, thumb centre, etc, etc.
   Each has its own challenges,
   It is just one way to do it.
   And, really, I could not do it without the right spacing. It would be
   nearly impossible.
   So for me, what makes a good lute: setup. I can play an average  or
   even below average lute and get a pretty good sound with the right
   spacing.
   I this case, I use thumb in: egg The other variant is thumb in:
   squid where the fingers are more extended.
   That is, the thumb is inside the hand, mostly, and the hand is shaped
   as if it could hold an egg.
   In fact, I could lay one!
   Most importantly, the wrist is very loose. The wrist is a biggie as far
   as tone goes.
   The video was made with a follow focus tracking so you can see
   everything mostly in focus.
   [1]http://youtu.be/soTjO9WlsAs?hd=1t=2m16s
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 25, 2012 11:32:00 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 I haven't come across that formula David.  Can you please point me to
   a
 source for the recipe?  It could save a lot of time and money!
 Thanks,
 Bill
 From: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 To: William Samson [3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 Sent: Wednesday, 25 April 2012, 18:57
 Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 Simple geometry.
 It's all been worked out, unlike forty years ago when we worked it
   out.
 No different from buying clothes.
 dt
 At 11:55 PM 4/9/2012, you wrote:
   A luthier would need a formula relating hand dimensions (hand span,
   fistmele and so on) in order to build a lute that's exactly the
   right size for a particular player.  Without such a formula, all
   the
   luthier gets is a headache when asked to build a lute that's the
   right size for a particular player.
   If it's down to the player to decide what spacings they need, how
   will they determine that without having a selection of instruments
   to try first?  Not as easy as in the time of Laux Maler as David
   Van
   Edwards so amusingly pointed out!
   I don't see how making exact copies of original instruments
   actually
   helps here - There are variations in these too - Compare, for
   example the well-known 7c Hieber with the 7c Venere of about the
   same size (58/59cm?).  The Hieber has a wide string spacing at the
   nut end, and the Venere is almost impossibly narrow here for most
   players I know.  Otherwise, there's not a lot of difference in
   dimensions - bridge spacing, scale, body dimensions . . .
   I sympathise with your point of view, but can't see how these
   objectives can be achieved in practice without buying, trying and
   then rejecting a goodish number of instruments.
   Bill
   From: David Tayler [4]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   To: lute [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012, 22:27
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also
   the
 wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change
 anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they
   either
 keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size.
 So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on
   my
 experience that the player will have to go through a very long
 retraining period
 after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal
   backwards?
 Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and
   spacing.
 Without the right span and spacing, which reconciles two numbers,
   the
 size of the hand (and fingers) and the rules which govern the
   span
   and
 spacing of strings. Without these two numbers in balance, it is
 impossible, or very difficult to make a good sound.
 When these numbers are in balance, it is easy to make a good
   sound; in
 fact, it is difficult to make a bad sound. No one would wear size
   4 or
 size 11 shoes if they are a size 9, and yet, that is precisely
   what
 happens. Sadly, people are rarely fitted to the lute, even though

[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   Not sure I understand your question, but not all chords are playable by
   everyone on all lutes.
   However, most chords can be played on most lutes.
   If I had small hands, I could go to a smaller theorbo, or avoid certain
   chords, but it isn't really an issue for me.
   OTOH, if I had very large hands, lets say 50 percent larger, I could
   play a 90/180cm no problem and it would seem as if I were playing a
   60 cm lute.
   Similarly, a modest 33 percent difference would yield an effective play
   ratio from 80 to 60. My teacher could easily stop two double courses
   with the tip of the index finger; I cannot.
   And there is that one E major chord that I can't play on most lutes.
   But on my mandolin, it is a piece of cake.
   So then if there were chords that you could not play on a 60 cm lute,
   that would equate to 33+ person on the 80cm, disregarding for the
   moment the distinct advantage of a single strung theorbo.
   One can also calculate the effective span of the instrument according
   to spacing. So for example, certain chords become playable when you
   narrow the spacing. In practice, I don't notice any gosh I can't reach
   those chords moments until I go above 85cm. But if I had smaller
   hands, that number would of course be significantly different; larger
   hands, and I would wonder what people were talking about. It would not
   register.
   Another way to look at it is that try as I might, I cannot palm a
   basketball. All I can do is dribble.
   dt
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Sent: Sun, April 15, 2012 12:49:39 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good
   lute?
 Thank you David,
 But the point being made was that it may well not be that '90 percent
 that are still set up wrong' as you assert but that the player's
 posture is wrong (eg holding cradled in the lap and/or too close to
 horizontal) and/or the plucking position is inappropriate. If these
 defects, of the player not the instrument, are attended to you may
   not
 find that such a large proportion of large instruments are 'set up
 wrong'.
 Regarding your observation  about Lynda Sayce's playing: ' As far as
 chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a vid of
   her
 playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one could of
 course play every chord.'' , what precisely is meant by 'play every
 chord' . Are you suggesting that all nominal G lute chords should be
 playable on a theorbo?
 Martyn
 --- On Sat, 14/4/12, David Tayler [1]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
   From: David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good
   lute?
   To: lute [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Saturday, 14 April, 2012, 22:11
 Absolutely agree that technique is important!
 But those 90 percent that are still set up wrong, ouch! all those
 missed notes, so unnecessary.
 On a double strung instrument, it is a cart-horse scenario. You
 cannot
 develop technique unless the spacing is correct, just like you
   can't
 dance in the wrong trousers. Pedaling the cart and horse
   backwards.
 Main reason people don't make a good sound: wrong setup.
 So, you may say, I don't want to replace my lute or drill out the
 bridge--fair enough! Try one of mine first. You will be convinced
   in
 five minutes and also reap the health benefits of a stay in
 California.
 The spacing at the rose to which you refer is part of the
   equation.
 Three points determine the string lines: bridge, nut, plucking
   point
 (string thickness as well, if you don't measure from the edges).
 I'm now doing some super-macro videos that show how the strings
 vibrate
 in tandem when spaced correctly. It is very interesting!
 As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just
   saw
 a
 vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands,
   one
 could of course play every chord.
 And if one didn't have large hands, one could change the spacing
   to
 play everything as well--no double strings on the modern theorbo
   to
 go
 twang in the night.
 dt

   __
 From: Martyn Hodgson [1][4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 To: [2][5]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Cc: Lute Dmth [3][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu;
   [4][7]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 1:46:06 AM
 Subject: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
 David,
 Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things

[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   yup!
 __

   From: JarosAA'aw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sun, April 15, 2012 9:24:58 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good
   lute?
   lute makers probably should check a palm size before deciding on
   fingerboard and other things, like on this movie (have a look at around
   12,20 min)  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHV3ODfFcgE
   Obviously not very often we live close to our lute maker. Pitty
   JL
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHV3ODfFcgE
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   Absolutely agree that technique is important!
   But those 90 percent that are still set up wrong, ouch! all those
   missed notes, so unnecessary.
   On a double strung instrument, it is a cart-horse scenario. You cannot
   develop technique unless the spacing is correct, just like you can't
   dance in the wrong trousers. Pedaling the cart and horse backwards.
   Main reason people don't make a good sound: wrong setup.
   So, you may say, I don't want to replace my lute or drill out the
   bridge--fair enough! Try one of mine first. You will be convinced in
   five minutes and also reap the health benefits of a stay in California.
   The spacing at the rose to which you refer is part of the equation.
   Three points determine the string lines: bridge, nut, plucking point
   (string thickness as well, if you don't measure from the edges).
   I'm now doing some super-macro videos that show how the strings vibrate
   in tandem when spaced correctly. It is very interesting!
   As far as chords on the theorbo, Linda does a great job, I just saw a
   vid of her playing the Stabat Mater, and if one had large hands, one
   could of course play every chord.
   And if one didn't have large hands, one could change the spacing to
   play everything as well--no double strings on the modern theorbo to go
   twang in the night.
   dt
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Lute Dmth lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 1:46:06 AM
   Subject: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?
   David,

   Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string
   spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player struggles
   with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before jumping to
   erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's posture and
   hand position/technique are not the real culprits.

   Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to struggle
   with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because they
   are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that their
   arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required.  For
   example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern
   'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a relatively
   low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch difficulties
   which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the instrument
   resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early representations).
   This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the
   player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the
   left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may be
   more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more upright
   position also helps since it better fits with the
   arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left arm.
   The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm stretch
   and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm
   string length to around 90cm.

   Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than close
   to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from bridge to
   nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string
   separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the
   string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique.

   Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce
   points out ([1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a
   theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords,
   rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle.

   In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the
   player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't
   with their own posture and technique.

   Martyn
   --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 From: David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27

  Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also the
  wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change
  anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they
   either
  keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size.
  So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on my
  experience that the player will have to go through a very long
  retraining period

  after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal
   backwards?
  Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and spacing.
  Without the right span and spacing

[LUTE] Re: Pitch names and lute tunings.

[David Tayler]

   The lute--and renaissance music--uses a transposing system.. Core tones
   of A and G are common, but neither is the pitch.
   Even the keyboard uses a transposing system, renaissance diagrams
   frequently name what we call middle C by other names.
   Most modern musicians, except for clarinet, trumpet and so on, are
   trained in fixed pitch. Even forty years ago, the two systems existed
   side by side: my teacher was trained in moveable Do and so was I
   until graduate school.
   Moveable Do is necessary to understand renaissance theory, mutation
   (the renaming of the hexachord syllables to modulate) and
   sight-singing.
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sat, April 14, 2012 2:05:38 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Pitch names and lute tunings.
 Dear Collective Wisdom,
 I was wondering when pitch names began to be associated with the
 strings on a lute.  Nowadays the 'standard' renaissance lute is
 considered to be in G tuning, with the top string at g.
 Published books of lute songs seem, by and large to agree with this,
 with the vocal part(s) in staff notation agreeing with a lute
 accompaniment on a G-lute.
 So was 'g' defined as the pitch at which your top string is about to
 break?
 I would guess that with the theorbo (an instrument of which I know
   very
 little) the theorbo had to agree with the other instruments in the
 ensemble and conform to whatever pitch standard was in use at the
   time
 - though if the theorbist is playing from a bass line (rather than
 tablature) it's up to him/her to conform with the pitches of the
   other
 instruments, regardless of how the theorbo is tuned.
 It all seems very confusing - Is there a clear association between
 pitch names and lute tunings?
 Bill
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

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References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Miking a lute/theorbo

[David Tayler]

   The dynamic range of digital exceeds the background noise in your room.
   For example, if your DR is 110 dB, and your background is 45 dB, you
   have only 65 dB range.
   A typical lute has DR of maybe 40 dB.
   Recording in 24 bits, each bit is worth 6dB. So when recording, set
   your levels high, but not at the very highest, becasue your end result
   will be 16 bit or less. USe that extra resolution to downsample and
   normalize at exactly the time of output for the best result. Use 48 kH,
   not 44.1: CDs are dead and 48 sounds better.
   Consider AAC 24 bit/48kHz for output--best kept secret in audio. Most
   people not only throw away the bits, they use a cheapo encoder that
   chops off all the high frequencies, even though free or inexpensive
   ones are available and need only to be set up once.
   dt
 __

   From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   To: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com; LuteNet list
   lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 3:48:35 PM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Miking a lute/theorbo
   On Apr 11, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Anthony Hind wrote:
Ed
 Do I understand that you record in mono? I have often found that
   mono recordings are more relaxing than stereo, and analog more relaxing
   than digital; so mono analog is sometimes the easiest to listen to. It
   is as though the brain has lesswork to do recreating the sound image
   (trying to make the two sound images coincide). Although you no longer
   have indications of instrument position.
   No, I record in stereo if it is solo. Sometimes I record the lute in
   mono if there is a voice or other instrument because I have just one
   very expensive Neumann mic and I like to use it on the lute if I can.
   What I was saying is that if you record in a coincident pattern, there
   will be NO problems with phasing in mono playback. I don't know who
   listens in mono anymore, but it could happen. My main reason for using
   a coincident pattern though is that I can get a consistent sound on
   different days and even in different locations. I'm essentially lazy.
It used to be true that mono tape had far more dynamic space than
   stereo (mono analog with Nagra whole track, instead of stereo
   halftrack; although I suppose with two Nagras synchronized for stereo,
   you would have the same dynamic space); but is this still applicable
   with the newest digital recording medium with various lossless
   compressing algorythms?
   No, I'm pretty sure the dynamic range is the same for mono or stereo in
   the digital domain. You choose the bit rate, after all. Personally, I
   feel the recording capabilities today far exceed the playback systems
   most people listen on. If I record at 24 bits 48k or 44.1k (some record
   at double or quadruple that sample rate) with nice mics, the advantages
   are more in the manipulation/effect/processing domain than in the
   playback medium. That is: GIGO. Put yet another way, start with lots of
   headroom and high quality and by the time it is reduced down to AAC or
   mp3 for a YouTube video and played on computer speakers, there still
   should be some discernible difference from a recording made with a
   PCM/mp3 recorder using its built in mics and recording in mp3 rather
   than wave format.

De : Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
A : LuteNet list [2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Mercredi 11 avril 2012 2h22
Objet : [LUTE] Re: Miking a lute/theorbo
   
Brad,
I favor a coincident pair because there are no phase problems in
   mono, but even more so because it is easy to recreate. I don't have a
   problem with close miking (30-40cm). It is a matter of placement and
   mic quality, though. Every environment and instrument is different. It
   is probably safe to say that many engineers don't have a lot of
   experience with lutes and don't know the sound to go for. S/He might be
   able to fix the sound quite a bit after the fact, with your guidance.
   Maybe the two mics are out of phase. That will give a tinny sound. At
   any rate, s/he might be able to eq it to improve it.
   
   
On the weekend I recorded two pieces in a professional recording
studio.  I was accompanying a singer on the theorbo.  The recording
engineer aimed two mikes quite close to the body of the theorbo.
   
   
On the recording, the sound of the theorbo is very tinny and
   distorted,
and bears almost no similarity to the natural/ acoustic sound of the
instrument.
   
   
Has anybody had experience with miking a lute or theorbo for
   recording?
   
What mike placement gave you the best results so far as concerned
fidelity to the natural sound of the instrument?
   
   
Thanks,
   
   
Brad
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at

[LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   The important number is not the bridge or nut, but the spacing at the
   plucking point, which is derived from the string length, and the
   overall spacing plan, plus the thickness of the strings.
   Unless you go close parallel, which is more common on early
   instruments, 5mm is going to wing up being just on the edge. BUT you
   can of course widen it at the other end.
   And there, it depends a lot on the circumference of your fourth finger
   of the left hand when stopping the string. That needs to feel just
   right to execute fast trills.
   dt
 __

   From: Anthony Hart resea...@monsignor-reggio.com
   To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 2:51:18 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute size and set-up was Re: What makes a good
   lute?
   whilst on the subject of lute set up, I have a question of the action
   of
   the bass courses of a 14c Liuto attiorbato. I have found several
   suggestions concerning the ideal height of the bass strings above the
   finger board.
   1. The strings should be about 5mm at the lower nut.
   2. The strings should be in the same plane as the stopped strings.
   From observation from drawings:
   1. A drawing of the 1639 Sellas instrument (upon which my instrument is
   based)by Robert Lundberg the top nut appears to be slightly lower than
   the
   line of the finger board. Also the upper nut appears to have a slight
   curve, as with a violin bridge, making the lowest course slightly lower
   than the preceding ones.
   2. A drawing of the Railich instrument shows the line of the bass
   courses
   higher than the stopped ones.
   These observations are based on the thumbnail views from the
   appropriate
   websites so exact measurements not possible.
   Any other ideas?
   Many thanks
   Anthony
   David,
   Clearly the overall size of an instrument and things like string
   spacing are relevant to the ease of playing. But if a player
   struggles
   with a particular size and/or specification of lute, before
   jumping
   to
   erroneous conclusions it's important to see if the player's
   posture
   and
   hand position/technique are not the real culprits.
   Regarding the 'wrong' size instrument: a player may seem to
   struggle
   with a larger instrument than that they are used to simply because
   they
   are holding it an unsuitable/inappropriate manner - rather that
   their
   arms/hands are intrinsically incapable of the stretch required.  For
   example, if a player holds a large lute instrument as a modern
   'classical' guitar (ie cradled low down in the lap and at a
   relatively
   low angle to the ground) they may find left arm stretch
   difficulties
   which can readily be overcome by adopting a posture with the
   instrument
   resting on the right thigh (as often seen in early
   representations).
   This can result in the instrument now being held some 10/15cm to the
   player's right and bringing the nut a similar distance closer to the
   left hand and so stretches which had previously seemed difficult may
   be
   more readily achieved. Holding a large instrument in a more
   upright
   position also helps since it better fits with the
   arm/body geometry and increases the effective stretch of the left
   arm.
   The end result of all this is to give up to 15cm extra left arm
   stretch
   and thus increasing the effective left arm stretch from, say, 76cm
   string length to around 90cm.
   Similarly, if a player is playing well up to the rose rather than
   close
   to the bridge, the natural tapering of string separation from
   bridge
   to
   nut will result in a small, but noticeable, reduction in string
   separation at the actual plucking point which is not the fault of the
   string spacing at the bridge but of the player's own technique.
   Finally, specifically with regard to the theorbo, as Lynda Sayce
   points out ([1][1]http://www.theorbo.com/Theorbo/Theorbo.htm), if a
   theorbo player is trying to employ ordinary lute fingered chords,
   rather than those appropriate to the theorbo, they may also struggle.
   In short, before blaming an instrument's size and specification the
   player should look to themselves first and ensure the problem isn't
   with their own posture and technique.
   Martyn
   --- On Mon, 9/4/12, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   wrote:
 From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?
 To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 22:27
 Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also
   the
 wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change
   anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they
   either
 keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size.
   So

[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II

[David Tayler]

   I think that is a lovely group!--the lute is behind the front of the
   wave, so the mics will pick up less of the lute. The organ is placed at
   the front of the wave.
 __

   From: hera caius caiush2...@yahoo.com
   To: lute net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tue, April 10, 2012 4:26:38 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
 All instruments very authentic copies.
 Gamba and violin on gut, historical bows, baroque flute traversierre,
 14 course theorbo in A on nylgut and copper and organo di legno (wood
 organ)
 One example:

   [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emu
   E8y
 bClQindex0feature=plcp
 (recording was made in 2010)
 (the quality of the recording is not the best)
 --- On Tue, 4/10/12, David Tayler [2]vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
   From: David Tayler [3]vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
   To: lute [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:58 AM
 If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine.
 However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars,
 metal
 strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice
   as
 loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear.

   __
 From: Mathias Roesel [2][5]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
 To: lute net [3][6]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
 there and the music was generally very interesting but I
   hear
 your
 theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na...
 There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble,
 probably,
 but
 the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers,
   viols,
 flutes
 or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each
   chord
 or
 note
 that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble
   piece
 is
 a
 major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content
   with
 that,
 there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords.
   Not
 in
 the
 way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go
   in
 consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent
 passages.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][4][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
 References
 1. [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1.
   [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y
   bClQindex0feature=plcp
 2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[10]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=[11]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8y
   2. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   3. mailto:vidan...@sbcglobal.net
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   6. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDoomhnUOUlist=UUFoONkd8wBnm1emuE8ybClQindex0feature=plcp
  10. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
  11. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: What makes a good lute?

[David Tayler]

   Ninety percent of the lutes I see are set up wrong and are also the
   wrong size for the person playing. I doubt that this will change
   anytime soon: once someone buys the wrong size instrument, they either
   keep it or trade it in for another one that is the wrong size.
   So I would rate size and setup as the number one issue, based on my
   experience that the player will have to go through a very long
   retraining period
   after learning on a lute that is the wrong size. Why pedal backwards?
   Of the setup issues, the number one issue is the span and spacing.
   Without the right span and spacing, which reconciles two numbers, the
   size of the hand (and fingers) and the rules which govern the span and
   spacing of strings. Without these two numbers in balance, it is
   impossible, or very difficult to make a good sound.
   When these numbers are in balance, it is easy to make a good sound; in
   fact, it is difficult to make a bad sound. No one would wear size 4 or
   size 11 shoes if they are a size 9, and yet, that is precisely what
   happens. Sadly, people are rarely fitted to the lute, even though the
   lute is from the age of custom made. Equally sadly, most people do
   not understand the basic physics of twang, thwack and pluck, which
   involves some simple experiments with a special bridge and nut that are
   universally adjustable. Generally speaking, and I mean VERY generally,
   the plucking-point spacing is wrong, that is, the place where you
   actually pluck the string, and it is almost always too narrow. However,
   it is the ratio of the bridge to nut, factoring the string length, and
   figured at YOUR plucking point that gives numbers for the thou shalt
   not buzz dimensions. Empirically, anyone can see that the spacing is
   different at any point on the string.
   A player with years of experience can give you some advice, after
   watching you play, about the setup. You may have to compromise somewhat
   on the overall span, or use a sliding scale so that the treble has more
   room.
   After these two biggies, there is a seemingly endless list of features,
   all of which are important. And here you will need some experience to
   guide you.
   However, I would add that most lutes made nowadays are not copies of
   originals. They are rescaled, resized, rebarred, rebridged, reglued,
   revarnished.
   Available is everything: everything-except-original.
   Now, you may want that. Personally, I think everyone needs a reality
   check instrument that is a copy of an original. Otherwise, it is just a
   guitar, basically, with wonky pegs.
   Since you asked about sound in your list, it is no fun playing a
   monochromatic instrument of any kind, but that is just a personal
   preference. I would say most lutes made today lean towards
   monochromatic.
   Main thing is to make a good sound. If you aren't making a beautiful
   sound, it isn't you: your lute is set up wrong, is the wrong size, or
   both.
   Lute players may think that their feet are the wrong size, but when you
   think about it, this cannot be the case. Everyone is different, and the
   instrument must fit.
   My teacher told me that you don't choose a lute, it chooses you. Maybe
   that is true.
   dt
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sat, April 7, 2012 6:25:47 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] What makes a good lute?
 I haven't really got much to add to the subject line.  I've been
 chatting with Rob about this and various points have emerged  I'd be
 interested in hearing what priorities you might put on the various
 characteristics of a lute in deciding if it's 'good' or otherwise.
 The kinds of things that have come up are (in no particular order):
   * playability (action, string spacing etc)
   * sound (which I can't easily define)
   * authenticity of design/construction
   * materials used
   * quality of craftsmanship
   * reputation of maker
 Of course these are rather broad headings and might easily be
   refined,
 clarified or broken down.
 Thoughts, please?
 Bill
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Facsimiles at the Royal Holloway University of London Early Music Online site

[David Tayler]

   Yumola!!!
 __

   From: Luca Manassero l...@manassero.net
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Sat, April 7, 2012 5:51:12 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Facsimiles at the Royal Holloway University of
   London Early Music Online site
 Thank you, Matteo! This is an unbelievable treasure.
 I will post this reference on my blog as well.
 Luca
 [1][1]http://liuti.manassero.net
 Matteo Turri on 07/04/12 13.55 wrote:
 The Royal Holloway University of London Early Music Online site
 [1][2][2]http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
 has a number of facsimiles available to download.
 34 of them are specific for the lute (search for lute ... )
 Enjoy
 Matteo
 --
   References
 1. [3][3]http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   References
 1. [5]http://liuti.manassero.net/
 2. [6]http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
 3. [7]http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
 4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://liuti.manassero.net/
   2. http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
   3. http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   5. http://liuti.manassero.net/
   6. http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
   7. http://digirep.rhul.ac.uk/access/home.do
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II

[David Tayler]

   If you use all original instruments, you will hear the lute fine.
   However, if you have thin bridges, heavy bows, thick bass bars, metal
   strings etc on the bowed strings then they will be easily twice as
   loud. And so all of the soft instruments will disappear.
 __

   From: Mathias Roesel mathias.roe...@t-online.de
   To: lute net Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Mon, April 9, 2012 5:50:11 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: All about micing...part II
   there and the music was generally very interesting but I hear your
   theorbo only on the solo piece... (a Kapsberger)...Na...
   There's nothing wrong with an audible theorbo in an ensemble, probably,
   but
   the thing is, pluckers cannot hold their tones like singers, viols,
   flutes
   or organs do. So what should be heard are the impulses of each chord or
   note
   that you play. Profiling the rhythmic structure of an ensemble piece is
   a
   major task of the theorbo, I suppose. And if you're not content with
   that,
   there's another way to become audible. You can break the chords. Not in
   the
   way of quick arpeggios, but in regular rhythm. You can try to go in
   consonant intervals alongside the leading part in prominent passages.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Basic home miking a lute to computer?

[David Tayler]

   A studio projects B1 is the best under $100 mic for lute.
   Any computer interface will provide power and connect to your computer.
   An eight channel Mackie Onyx Blackbird for $400 will give the
   possibility to expand to more mics if you wish, the same interface is
   available in two channels as well.
 __

   From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@lmi.net
   To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, April 4, 2012 8:50:11 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Basic home miking a lute to computer?
   Ratcheting down to basic  cheep home miking for idiots- (or cavemen):
   No doubt this ground has been covered before, but I need a refresher
   tutorial.
   Opinions of the Samson C01U USB Studio Condenser for a quick, easy home
   recording to the iMac? I already own one, but suggestions for
   affordable improvements couldn't hurt.
   Any favorite apps/programs/software preferences welcomed. My hard drive
   crashed last year and I am starting from scratch all over again. (Mac
   OS X, version 10.6.8) I haven't recorded in a few years and am now
   ready to get back into action. (The single malt chaser is already taken
   care of. Laphroaig 18 year old)
   Much appreciated, Dan
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: miking a lute/theorbo

[David Tayler]

   Well, yesss, we can take it to extremes!
   But four mics is really ten times better than two, and you don't need
   more than six, and you can make a very, very good recording with two if
   you are willing
   to spend time on the placement to get it really perfect.
   Fortunately, it is all going to video now, and so the audio has to be
   good, but not as good. No need to fill in the image, the image is
   there.
   dt
 __

   From: Christopher Wilke chriswi...@yahoo.com
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Brad Walton gtung.wal...@utoronto.ca
   Sent: Wed, April 4, 2012 10:55:36 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: miking a lute/theorbo
   Recipe for a really super natural lute sound:
 1) Use 20-50 prohibitively expensive mics.
 2) Place them at least 415 feet away from the instrument.
 3) Arrange them in an incredibly intricate array involving rigging
   from
 a chemistry lab reminiscent of a bad sci-fi movie. (Be sure to record
 in no less than four channels.)
 4) After recording, digitally manipulate the product with at least
   4000
 edits, taking special care to remove all aspects of the natural sound
 you don't actually mean to be heard (finger noises, fret buzz, the
   real
 sound your lute makes, etc.).
 5) Liberally slather La cathedrale engloutie reverb all over the
 finished product.
 6) Serve, relishing how your colleagues will compliment you on
   sounding
 so natural it is even better than the real thing.
 Chris
 Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
 Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
 [1]www.christopherwilke.com
 --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Brad Walton [2]gtung.wal...@utoronto.ca wrote:
   From: Brad Walton [3]gtung.wal...@utoronto.ca
   Subject: [LUTE] miking a lute/theorbo
   To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 12:05 PM
 Hello folks,
 On the weekend I recorded two pieces in a professional recording
 studio.  I was accompanying a singer on the theorbo.  The recording
 engineer aimed two mikes quite close to the body of the theorbo.
 On the recording, the sound of the theorbo is very tinny and
   distorted,
 and bears almost no similarity to the natural/ acoustic sound of the
 instrument.
 Has anybody had experience with miking a lute or theorbo for
 recording?  What mike placement gave you the best results so far as
 concerned fidelity to the natural sound of the instrument?
 Thanks,
 Brad
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 --
   References
 1. [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.christopherwilke.com/
   2. mailto:gtung.wal...@utoronto.ca
   3. mailto:gtung.wal...@utoronto.ca
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Right hand plucking position - was Re: Quality vs Quantity

[David Tayler]

   Absolutely no similarity in style :)
   A lot of people, probably fifty who went on to be professionals in
   Early Music, were at Iadone's program in Putney VT, so you would have a
   good bar bet as to who was the best known, but Tyler and Binkley would
   be right up there in the lute world, and of course Bagby, Taruskin,
   Bernfeld, Cunningham, Western Wind singers, you name it.
   I suppose technically, WD Snodgrass was probably a lot better known
   than Tyler or Binkley, and he did have the first theorbo in America, I
   imagine.
   You can see some amazing banjo playing by Tyler on youtube.
   I remember from those days also Richard Dyer-Bennett visited, perhaps
   the year was 1972 that he was there.
 __

   From: William Samson willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: Edward Mast nedma...@aol.com
   Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Wed, March 28, 2012 6:14:15 AM
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Right hand plucking position - was Re: Quality vs
   Quantity
 Jim was one of these rare birds - a very fine musician AND a
   respected
 musicologist.
 Bill
 From: Edward Mast [1]nedma...@aol.com
 To: William Samson [2]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 Cc: Lute List [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2012, 13:45
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Right hand plucking position - was Re: Quality vs
 Quantity
 Hi Bill,
 Certainly Jim Tyler would be the most well known (at least as a
 performer) of Iadone's students.  But I don't know if there is any
 similarity in playing styles - I haven't really heard Tyler.  Chris
 williams studied with Iadone and recorded a bit with the NY Pro
   Musica,
 as did Lucy Cross.  But Iadone was a unique musician; the only
 comparisons that come to mind are musicians such as Art Tatum or
   Oscar
 Peterson.  He developed that kind of rhythmic excitement.  I attended
 some of the summer music workshops that he directed, and never had a
 lute lesson or heard a lute solo.  All ensemble work, singing,
   theory,
 or lute songs, and of course faculty and student concerts - but no
 solos.  A different emphasis.
 Best,
 Ned
 On Mar 28, 2012, at 3:18 AM, William Samson wrote:
  Hi Ned,
  It looks like quite an independent strand of development of lute
 technique was developed by Iadone, likely starting with the same
 sources as Poulton used.  I think Diana Poulton and Susanne Bloch
 became great friends in the '60s, but I could have my date wrong
 there.  Diana did attend at least one LSA get-together.
  I would guess Iadone's influence on this side of the Pond mostly
   came
 via his student, the great Jim Tyler, who lived in London for many
 years.
  I wondered if Paul O'Dette had studied lute with him, but as far as
   I
 can see the only lutenist teacher mentioned in his resume is Eugen
 Dombois - yet another strand!
  Best regards,
  Bill
 
  From: Edward Mast [1][4]nedma...@aol.com
  To: William Samson [2][5]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
  Cc: Lute List [3][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2012, 21:36
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Right hand plucking position - was Re: Quality
   vs
 Quantity
 
  Fortunately, I think, Iadone had no teacher (of lute) .  He was
   from
 quite a different musical and lute 'family' than Dolmetsch and
 Poulton;  no relation to Dolmetsch, I would say, and only a very
 distant relation to Poulton.
 
  Best,
 
  Ned
  On Mar 27, 2012, at 3:02 PM, William Samson wrote:
 
   I couldn't agree more, Ned.  But Schaeffer was the one who
 successfully proselytised and tipped the balance.
  
   Even before Iadone there was Arnold Dolmetsch - a
 flesh-plucking-pinky-on-bridger, uncontaminated because he learned
 straight from the sources and didn't play classical guitar first.
 Here's an image of him around 100 years ago:
   [4][7]http://tinyurl.com/ccmoxu6
  
   He went on to teach Diana Poulton, who went on to teach . . .
 almost everybody!
  
   Regards,
  
   Bill
  
  
 
 
  --
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 --
 --
   References
 1. mailto:[9]nedma...@aol.com
 2. mailto:[10]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
 3. mailto:[11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. [12]http://tinyurl.com/ccmoxu6
 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:nedma...@aol.com
   2. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:nedma...@aol.com
   5. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. http://tinyurl.com/ccmoxu6
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9.