[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Looking for folks interested in 3l01i CRT discussion

[chuck richards]

Could it be that these CRTs were used in night-vision
apparatus?  If so, they would have been designed to operate
very dimly.


>
>
> Original Message 
>From: tschw10...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: OT: Looking for folks interested in
>3l01i CRT discussion
>Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Pete, what would explain the low lifespan? Surely the tube wasn't
>designed 
>>to last a month. 
>>
>>Is there some biasing change that would extend the life? Was it
>maybe 
>>designed only for dark room application where the beam current would
>be 
>>much lower? 
>>
>>I just have a hard time understanding such a short lifespan.
>>
>>Terry
>>
>>On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 3:09:56 AM UTC-5, petehand wrote:
>>>
>>> After a couple of weeks the phosphor gets too dim to see in
>daylight. I 
>>> know it's the phosphor because when I adjusted it to move the
>ticks to new 
>>> locations where it had never been scanned, they were bright again.
>I put a 
>>> new tube in and the same thing happened. The phosphor coating is
>really 
>>> really thin, almost transparent.
>>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Russians chip K155ID1 SOIC 16L packaged

[chuck richards]

 yep.  cheap. cheap. cheap.

 Original Message 
From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Russians chip  K155ID1  SOIC 16L
packaged
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:12:44 -0700 (PDT)

>I'm speculating that most packaging houses only offer SMT-style
>packages. 
>They are produced by the billions and have lower material costs than
>DIP 
>due to smaller size alone. On top of that, leadframes for DIPs are
>probably 
>in much shorter supply.
>
>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Russians chip K155ID1 SOIC 16L packaged

[chuck richards]

>While we are at it, I have this question to ask:

Why on earth would a surface mount version of a K1551D1
even be a consideration, much less a real product?
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Russians chip  K155ID1  SOIC 16L
>packaged
>Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Wow! 4-inch wafers. I have not seen one of those since the 1980's.
>>What process-technology is this on ?
>>
>>I'd love to hear more about the number of number of masks, and
>process 
>>steps.
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Russians chip K155ID1 SOIC 16L packaged

[chuck richards]

Seriously?  SOIC version of K1551D1?
Why?  I really do not see any need for it.


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RE: [neonixie-l] National NL5866SX Data

[chuck richards]

Probably same pinout as all the rest of the NL-58xx series.
All of those small tubes with the formed wire leads are about the
same.  Some have decimal points.  Others do not.  They all usually
have the black plastic base with the holes through for the wires.
That base slides on and off.

 Original Message 
From: unmitigatedf...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] National NL5866SX Data
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:51:07 -0700 (PDT)

>I just picked up a National NL5866SX NIXIE tube.  I haven't been able
>to 
>locate any pinout information.  Does anyone here have it?
>
>Thanks,
>Larry
>
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[neonixie-l] Re: other uses for nixies

[chuck richards]

Possible uses for nixies:

-Caller ID readout for landline telephone.

-Indoor/Outdoor thermometer.

-Programmable dialer for testing telephone switching equipment.

-Soldering station temperature readout.

-Microwave oven clock/countdown timer.

-Car speedometer (been done before I think)
[one guy tried nixies for a motorcycle tach and
speedometer, and he found out that the vibration
was a bit too much for them].

-Machine tool CNC readout.


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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: MOD_6 for sale...

[chuck richards]

>I have here a 16-tube array of B-7971 tubes which I built
many years ago.  It scrolls text.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: MOD_6 for sale...
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:15:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>For those who cringe at the 1200 USD price, rest assured it's a fair
>price
>>
>> I'm in the midst of writing the software for my 8-tube b7971 clock,
>and 
>>the scarce supply of the tubes plus the time it takes to design,
>build, and 
>>debug makes it a costly project to do it on your own. I never
>thought I 
>>would want one until I literally got to hold one of those 70+
>mm-tall 
>> beasts in my hand. Those tubs are really big.
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay

[chuck richards]

Rimshot!

 Original Message 
From: al...@gmx.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:46:13 -0700 (PDT)

>But what if you already have Dalibor's tubes?
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay

[chuck richards]

>That's just crazy.  For that kind of money I would simply
purchase some of Dalibor's tubes!

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: p...@nixies.us
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay
>Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>And it's already over $500 with 6 days to go. Guess my $30 bid
>didn't cut it!
>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[chuck richards]

Sometimes reversing the polarity can shake things up
enough to make some dark digits start lighting up.

Set it up briefly so that one of the dark digits is the anode (+) side
and the normal anode is the cathode (-) side.

Of course, still be using the proper series resistance so that if or
when
it does light up it does not self destruct.  Try that and let us know
what happens.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: bobleich...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am
>Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Funny you should mention a plasma globe... I have one arriving
>tomorrow. 
>>Was thinking of one as a quick and dirty check for gas inside
>theenvelope.
>>
>>I'll try running one or more of the unresponsive segments for
>awhile... Not 
>>optimistic as it looks like glow just near the tube base. Not a hint
>of any 
>>glow on the element proper. 240 V measured across the tube at 10 mA,
>but 
>>absolutely no glow on the element. Have you seen something like this
>
>>recover?
>>
>>I'm used to seeing at least a partial element glow with the glowing
>area 
>>maybe moving around a bit... Not used to completely dark elements.
>>
>>Anyway, to be continued!
>>
>>B
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: Nerdy fun...

[chuck richards]

In a processor course I attended many years
ago, on the final exam, the instructor rigged it so that
the better students would know they had answered some of the 
problems correctly.

One such test answer which I'll never forget
was 0001 DEAD B00B.

Chuck


>
>
> Original Message 
>From: sjmcinn...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] OT: Nerdy fun...
>Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 20:06:57 +0930
>
>>Whilst I’m not a user, Facebook has done the same thing:
>>
>>Name:facebook.com.au
>>
>>Addresses:  2a03:2880:f019:111:face:b00c:0:2
>>
>> 
>>
>>Name:facebook.com
>>
>>Addresses:  2a03:2880:f119:8083:face:b00c:0:25de
>>
>> 
>>
>>And, a little more on the humorous side:
>>
>>Name:www.luns.net.uk
>>
>>Addresses:  2a01:8900:0:1::b00b:1e5
>>
>> 
>>
>>Scott.
>>
>> 
>>
>>From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick
>>Sent: Wednesday, 10 May 2017 7:47 PM
>>To: neonixie-l
>>Subject: [neonixie-l] OT: Nerdy fun...
>>
>> 
>>
>>Nerdy fun.
>>
>>I was doing some network testing today and was using nslookup
>(available on lots of operating systems).
>>
>>So I query bbc.co.uk for its data and get back the IPv6 and IPV4
>addresses - note the IPV6 ones. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Quote:Name:bbc.co.uk
>>Addresses: 
>>  2001:41c1:4008::bbc:1
>>  2001:41c1:4008::bbc:2
>>  2001:41c1:4008::bbc:3
>>  2001:41c1:4008::bbc:4
>>  2001:41c1:400c::bbc:1
>>  2001:41c1:400c::bbc:2
>>  2001:41c1:400c::bbc:3
>>  2001:41c1:400c::bbc:4
>>  212.58.244.23
>>  212.58.246.78
>>  212.58.244.22
>>  212.58.246.79
>>
>>
>>I did warn you it was nerdy fun. Well done, the Beeb.
>>
>> 
>>
>>Nick
>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Spotted on Ebay: B6091/NL8423 nixies (larger20mm/0.8 inch). Manufactured 1985

[chuck richards]

$16.67 per tube is not too bad actually, for a moderately
rare tube such as these 6091/8423 ones are.

Chuck

>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Spotted on Ebay: B6091/NL8423 nixies
>(larger20mm/0.8 inch). Manufactured 1985
>Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:42:05 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Terry- I wouldn't be surprised if they were re-dated. 1985 seemed
>too 
>>recent, as LEDs & VFDs were churned-out like jelly beans at that
>time. Tons 
>>of nixies from 1960's, some from 1970's. Mine tested-out fine, no
>signs of 
>>darkening, no blue dots, etc. Definitely new-in-box, but
>questionable if 
>>they were actually manufactured in 1985.
>>
>>Chuck - The lot of 6 was 100 USD thru buy-it-now. I saw some on
>auction; I 
>>dont see these very often so I got greedy and snagged them for
>spares. My 
>>big clock uses 15 of them, and after almost 4 years I've had 1
>failure plus 
>>2 that are showing some signs of wear (1 is darkening, 1 is getting
>dimmer).
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Spotted on Ebay: B6091/NL8423 nixies (larger 20mm/0.8inch). Manufactured 1985

[chuck richards]

Great!  Just looked them up and yes, they have the .808 inch tall
characters.  If you don't mind me asking, what's the going price of
these
6091/8423 tubes?

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Spotted on Ebay: B6091/NL8423 nixies
>(larger 20mm/0.8inch). Manufactured 1985
>Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 21:25:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>These are noticeably larger than the more-common 0.6" b5092s.
>>Not my auction, but I bought a lot of 6 (new-in box/mint condition).
>
>>Apparently the seller has a stockpile.
>>
>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PIECES-NOS-type-6091-8423-NATIONAL-NIXIE-T
>UBES-Large-Top-View-GUARANTEED-NEW-/172657232661?hash=item28332c4b15:
>g:-KAAAOSwo4pYl55u
>>
>>I was surprised to see the 8522 date-code; the only other tubes I've
>
>>encountered that were manufactured more recently are from the USSR.
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new nixie tubes

[chuck richards]

Dalibor,

Thanks again for all that you do.

You obviously have devoted your whole life for the past several
years to the manufacturing of high-quality brand new large nixie
tubes.

There will always be some folks on the side-lines who want to
talk about and to theorize about "better" and "cheaper" methods
of tube production.

Not bloody likely!!

What you have accomplished is most remarkable!

I especially like reading the part where you explain that
computers and automation don't help much.

That is a fact that people who have never tried any production
methods will argue with.  But, as you point out, once one actually
does their experiments and starts learning how to get it done, one
will find that computers and automation just can't cope with the
entire situation very well at all.

Again, congratulations to you and your entire team of dedicated
people!

Chuck



>
>
> Original Message 
>From: dali...@farny.cz
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Manufacturing affordable large, new
>nixie tubes
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Hello!
>>
>>I am sending few notes to this topic, from a perspective of someone
>who 
>>spent last 5 years exclusively in nixie tubes manufacture ;-)
>>
>>IMHO, $25 nixie tube is not possible. Nixie tubes were never so
>cheap, even 
>>in 60s, the less expensive tube from Burroughs was for $8 (equal to
>today's 
>>$64) when bought in a quantity of 1000pcs, type B-5016, no mercury.
>Large 
>>tube (B-7094) were for $30 (today's $240). In this time, the nixie
>tubes 
>>were cutting edge technology with generous budget, hoard of R
>engineers 
>>and whole tube backing industry. They were produced in large
>quantities for 
>>lot of equipment, mostly measuring devices - almost never for
>digital 
>>clocks, they were simply expensive for consumer market.
>>You can now find small tubes on eBay for around $5, mostly russian
>tubes - 
>>their price is now determined by market (what are hobbyists willing
>to pay 
>>for it), not manufacturing costs. They were produced in large
>volumes in 
>>soviet central planned economy, even when the demand was decreasing
>- this 
>>is why there are still full stocks of them in former soviet
>countries.
>>
>>You mention "current manufacturing methods", we actually dont have
>much new 
>>technologies which could simplify the nixie tube manufacture. The
>use of 
>>computers is very limited and doesnt help much. Also new
>technologies like 
>>laser cutting etc. doesnt help (only for machinery construction,
>jigs..). 
>>There are tens of operations involved in the
>assembly/sealing/pumping 
>>procedures - the quantity of machines needed for automated line
>would be 
>>big and their price very high. As NeonJohn suggested - few $M would
>be 
>>necessary just for the machinery. You would also soon find that
>automation 
>>make demands on supplier's tolerances ( e.g. glass thickness,
>diameter) 
>>which is beyond their standard production capabilities = back to
>hand 
>>processing.. This is one of the reason why large factories like
>Blackburn 
>>had own facilities for production of all the raw materials/prefabs.
>>Last year, I had a meeting with people from german company producing
>
>>glassworking machines - simple semiautomated machine just for
>sealing 
>>operation (stem/envelope) which still needs operator starts at
>$250.000 and 
>>its production capacity is not so high (my estimation was 30
>tubes/hour). 
>>And this is one of very few pieces of equipment you can purchase,
>the rest 
>>is necessary to develop - according to your specifications and
>process 
>>description.
>>
>>But even if you had a fully equiped factory now, it would take you
>long 
>>time to get to working nixie tubes. It is not about machines, but
>about the 
>>operator/R - you need to know when the tube is sufficiently
>degassed 
>>before filling, what purity of the raw material is necessary, purity
>of the 
>>gases, time for aging etc.. Many factors, each of them can make your
>tube 
>>prone to failure. Not immediately, but after year of operation for
>instance 
>>- your backers will not wait years until you come up with working 
>>combination..
>>
>>Some data from our business:
>>- Our price for a tube is now set to $145.
>>- We make around 130 tubes per month (+ handful of clocks) with
>monthly 
>>revenue of around 20.000 USD.
>>- We are now a team of 5 people and this production volume makes us
>really 
>>busy (I work 7 days a week, all day long).
>>- We need 250 square meters (2700sqft) of space for our current
>equipment.
>>- As for the "butique price" - my monthly net salary is $384, I get
>paid 
>>since February 2017 ;-) But my people's salary is above average (for
>a 
>>given profession and our region).
>>- I invested around $80.000 from my personal savings on the
>beginning
>>
>>I know that if I want to really succeed and earn money, I need to
>cut down 
>>the production costs. So I am step by step making our manufacture

[neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

[chuck richards]

360 ohms is way too little resistance for *any* sort of
TTL pullup resistor!  That apparently got confused with
the standard *pull down* resistor used to keep an unattended
TTL input *low*.   360 ohms for a TTL pulldown is just right.

2.2k ohms is the standard value to use as a TTL pullup.
That goes for regular old 7400 series TTL, as well as 74LS
series.  

The old military practice was to always use 1k ohm as the
standard TTL pullup resistor value.  Note that even when using
that 1k pullup resistance, that all we are asking of any TTL
gate which is pulled up by this, is to be able to provide 5
milliamperes
in order for for the output to go low.

Even that value of 1k ohm would work ok with either plain 7400 or
74LS.

2.2k is much more like it, however.
At that value, all we are asking is 2.3 mA, and that works fine.

360 ohms is just simply too close to being a piece of wire!!

(This is all explained in great detail on page 12 of Don Lancaster's
famous TTL Cookbook)



 Original Message 
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:38:26 -0700 (PDT)

>
>
>
>I'm a little late to the party, and the discussion between old 74xx
>versus 
>74LSxx caught my attention. In most cases, I'd favor the newer 74LS
>over 
>the original 74xx. But the resistor values (360 ohm) paint you into
>using 
>the older series, because 5V / 360ohms gives you 13.9mA. The value
>seems to 
>have been chosen because of the set switch resistor values.Of course
>as the 
>OP mentioned, removing all the 360 ohm resistors lets the unit
>operate 
>properly. The set switches may work adequately, too.
>
>lU/Wcu3xmkZidsfPKYgHCTU5VlWEi_nSXiWACLcB/s1600/Taylor_Clock.jpg>
>
>Personally, I prefer 4000 series CMOS, for this kind of thing.
>
>
>Good to see that the OP, and his buddy, figured it out.
>
>-- 
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

[chuck richards]

Yep, those old plain 7400 series TTL ics are little juice-hogs!

Changing that whole thing over to 74LS is a good idea.
The plain old 7400 series TTL works ok, but it hogs a lot
more current, and it's also much more susceptible to noise
and transient spikes.  74LS series is a vast improvement!

But, you are correct in your observation that when changing
from plain 74XX to 74LSXX, that particular attention must be
paid to current availability.

Swapping out those resistors sounds reasonable.




>
>
> Original Message 
>From: dave.do...@comcast.net
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit
>Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 18:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Sorry that it took me so long to get back about this clock problem.
>We have 
>>the clock work perfectly now. I have to give my friend Mike all the
>credit 
>>for figuring this out. It appears that the original clock design
>schematic 
>>calls for 7400 series ICs but the BOM calls for 74LSXX. Mike has a
>IC spec. 
>>book and after comparing the differences in the ICs we found that
>the 
>>74LSXX have an output of 8ma and the 7400 series have an output of
>16ma. We 
>>believe that the original design was for 7400 but in shopping for
>them 
>>found that there are very few suppliers anymore. We think that this
>is why 
>>they changed the BOM to 74LSXX. With the smaller output from the
>74LSXX IC 
>>and the amount of resistance in that circuit the current was
>marginal and 
>>not enough current to drive the other ICs correctly in the circuit.
>We 
>>ended up removing R1 and R3 (360 ohm) and leaving everything else
>the way 
>>it was. It works perfect now and all of the setting switches work
>fine 
>>also. Thanks for all the feedback from everyone
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 6:37:54 PM UTC-6, dave@comcast.net
>wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm hoping that someone out there can help me with a problem that
>I am 
>>> having with a Taylor Edge clock kit that I built. After completing
>the kit 
>>> and plugging it in it seemed to be working fine. Then I noticed
>that the 
>>> 10s second display tube and the 10s minute display tube were not
>counting 
>>> correctly. They would count from 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 but then it
>would go back 
>>> to 3 then 4 then back to 2 and then start the sequence over again.
>The 1s 
>>> second and 10s minute tubes would count fine. I asked a friend of
>mine that 
>>> knows a lot more about this stuff than I do and he recommended
>that I try 
>>> disconnecting resistors R13 and R15 (both 240 ohm) from the time
>setting 
>>> circuit to see what would happen. This fixed the counting problem
>but now I 
>>> cannot set the time. I can't believe that I am the only person
>that has had 
>>> this problem and am hoping someone out there knows the answer. I
>am 
>>> attaching the schematic.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>-- 
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[neonixie-l]

[chuck richards]

Was just checking http://www.bgmicro.com yesterday looking for a
few various ics.

Came across this interesting one they currently have for sale
on their "Virtual Sidewalk Sale" portion of their website:

It's the old National Semiconductor DS8880 high-voltage
7-segment decoder/driver ic.  It's a 16 pin DIP and they are selling
them for $1 each.  Got the data sheet.  It says it can drive a
gas-filled
7-segment readout by pulling the appropriate segment cathodes low.

It does the full hexadecimal decoding.

It has programmable current sinks on the 7 outputs.
Programmable via an external resistance on a single pin.
It can stand up to 80 volts on the outputs an it'll do 1.5 mA
max current.

The application diagram shows a typical circuit which looks just
the same as a regular "1-of-10" nixie tube connected to a 74141.

This DS8880 ic looks to be the 7-segment equivalent of a 74141.

The app. note suggests a Beckman 7 segment tube.

Have any of you guys ever messed around with those?
Looks like possibly an interesting find for $1 each.

I do not have any gas filled 7 segment tubes at this time.
But maybe now that these driver ics have become available, it might
be time to find some!

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,  Chuck


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RE: [neonixie-l] 6844A saga

[chuck richards]

I too have a rather long 6844A saga to tell!

Back in 2010 I built a 6844A clock.  It works fine, the tubes are
fine.  They do not have mercury, therefore the color is more
orange with no blue outline.  This clock has a toggle switch on the
front
to shut off the readouts.  I only run the tubes when I want to see
them,
otherwise they stay dark.

This clock keeps the best time of any of them.
It's a free-running clock, not connected to any time synching source
such
as WWVB or GPS.  It holds up the correct time within about +/- 1
second per year.

The biggest problem I had with the 6844s was with the sockets.
There is a certain type of socket which very easily cracks the glass
from way too much sideways force on the pins.  There is another type
of
socket which has much more supple forks which are mounted in nice
generous holes so they can move around to accommodate the pin
spacing.  Found this all out the hard way after those "tube-killer"
sockets ruined (2) of my NOS 6844A tubes!!

At least my 6844a saga taught me the difference between real
sockets and cheap imitation junk sockets which are no good.

In my opinion, building a 6844A clock with the tubes mounted
in sockets out the front is well worth doing!

Chuck 





>
>
> Original Message 
>From: p...@nixies.us
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] 6844A saga
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 08:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I recently bought some 6844A tubes of ebay - I fancied making a four
>tube 
>>clock with round top-view tubes. In my head I had assumed that these
>would 
>>be doped with mercury, but they aren't. However, before I found that
>out I 
>>bought four Raytheon JAN 6844A tubes and 2 Burroughs 6844A tubes - I
>
>>figured if I changed my mind and wanted to make a six tube clock, I
>might 
>>as well have the extra tubes lying around. Another assumption: They
>would 
>>have the same mechanical specs, but they actually look very
>different - I 
>>prefer the look of the Burroughs tubes.
>>
>>All of them are NOS.
>>
>>So, I tested them and the Raytheon tubes are fine. One had Cathode 
>>poisoning (NOS? It was in the original box!). That was easily fixed
>with 
>>some over current and it was fascinating to see that work - this is
>the 
>>first time I have had to do that.
>>
>>The Burroughs tubes are quite a different story. On one of them,
>half the 
>>digits don't light up, but the leads to the digits do! I have posted
>some 
>>pictures below. On the other one, none of the digits light up - only
>the 
>>leads. Well, I'm going to put this down to experience - I am
>probably not 
>>going to build a clock with tubes that aren't doped with mercury -
>but I 
>>would like opinions as to what might be going on with the Burroughs
>tubes. 
>>Note that the behavior is independent of the actual anode current -
>other 
>>than how brightly they glow!
>>
>>This one shows just the lead lighting up:
>>
>>AgM/ZNebX4kd688dm4tLHQctcx4gKlWhKQ4VQCLcB/s1600/IMG_1285.JPG>
>>
>>
>>This shows the digit 3 and the lead lighting up:
>>
>>AgQ/Y3dHcwgftdcZzKl_Hdq-hV6CSKo_Pf9KQCLcB/s1600/IMG_1286.JPG>
>>
>>
>>This shows a lead and a 'not connected' pin lighting up:
>>
>>AgU/Qpm6i0ZEfQg2-FVLJq-dDXwgij2bSoSOwCLcB/s1600/IMG_1287.JPG>
>>
>>
>>This shows the digit 2 behaving itself!
>>
>>AgI/IqMWFM_bOCI8zIcgPCgBH98EAZQwRW_0gCLcB/s1600/IMG_1283.JPG>
>>
>>-- 
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[neonixie-l] Re: brightest nixie tube clock already assembled

[chuck richards]

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

You want a bright clock.  You want a high-quality clock.
You want a preassembled, tested, working clock.

But you don't want to spend much money on it.

Choose any two things from the following list:

1) inexpensive.
2) high quality.
3) nice and bright.

Again, you may have any TWO of these things.
But NOT all THREE at the same time.




 Original Message 
From: p...@nixies.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: brightest nixie tube clock already assembled
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 07:34:05 -0700 (PDT)

>I like the clocks from these 
>guys:
>http://www.ebay.com/usr/gra_and_afch_2?_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2754 
>They are direct drive so as bright as they can be. They come in
>various 
>forms, so you would probably want to make sure you at least bought
>one with 
>the arduino included. They have one with a case here: 
>
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/IN-14-NIXIE-Tubes-Clock-Musical-USB-RGB-Ardui
>no-Divergence-Meter-GRA-AFCH-/162261613376?hash=item25c78bbb40:g:l2wA
>AOSwB09YFdZE
>
>On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 2:43:36 PM UTC-5, Keith wrote:
>>
>> I am wanting to purchase a nixie tube clock already built but I
>would like 
>> to get one that has the most brightness. I was looking at in-18
>size nixie 
>> tubes. When looking at some the brightness is not that bright. So
>far I 
>> found this one to be a brightest unless it's just Photoshop or
>because the 
>> ambient lighting around it is darker. Does anyone have any
>recommendations 
>> for where to buy one that has a good reputation but does not cost
>an arm 
>> and a leg like this does?
>>
>> $500 is a bit much
>> http://nixieshop.com/in-18-clock.html
>>
>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Raytheon nixie glow

[chuck richards]

Raytheon had a lot of military contracts as far as I know.
That right there would make sense for their superior reliability.

Probably a larger R budget than most other manufacturers.
More long-term testing.  More thorough and harsh than some others,
most
likely.

Chuck








>
>
> Original Message 
>From: michaelxsea...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Raytheon nixie glow
>Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 16:33:33 -0800 (PST)
>
>>I played around with some Raytheon tubes a long time ago and they
>seemed to 
>>take a little longer to run properly and be a bit more particular
>about 
>>having enough current.  Check for datasheets on Nocrotec.com.
>>
>>They're nice tubes though.  Raytheon seemed to claim to me more
>reliable 
>>for what it's worth.
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Raytheon nixie glow

[chuck richards]

That's a very common color seen in tubes with mercury added.
The ones I notice it the most with are the small side-view
tubes such as NL-5853, or B-5853.

The non-mercury tubes glow a much stronger orange, without the
blue haze.  My examples of that are NL-6844A, NL-5971, NL-7153.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Raytheon nixie glow
>Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 07:27:56 -0800 (PST)
>
>>2.5mA sounds about right; must be the gas mixture/mercury that
>causes the 
>>color.
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor

[chuck richards]

No problem Dalibor.  Take your time.
I watched the video of how the large tubes are made.

With that amount of work involved, and with the clean and
very professional manufacturing facility you have, it's no
wonder that you are flooded with emails from around the entire
planet!!

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: dali...@farny.cz
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Dalibor
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:03:15 -0800 (PST)

>Hi Chuck,
>
>thank you for the email, I will get to it in a around a day.
>
>I reply to every email, but sometimes it takes me a bit longer as
>there are 
>too many of them ;-)
>
>best,
>
>Dalibor
>
>On Friday, 3 February 2017 17:10:33 UTC+1, Chuck wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have a good email contact address for Dalibor? 
>>
>> Thanks, Chuck 
>>
>>
>> $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web
>space. 
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>Kidding! See 
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor

[chuck richards]

nope.  I do not do facebook.

 Original Message 
From: martin.forsb...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 10:24:44 -0800 (PST)

>Have you tried a private message via his Facebook page?
>
>/Martin
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor

[chuck richards]

Thanks, yeah, that's the one I used.  A couple days ago now
and no response yet

 Original Message 
From: interz...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 11:18:14 -0500

>dali...@farny.cz
>
>On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 11:10 AM, chuck richards
><chuc...@all2easy.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a good email contact address for Dalibor?
>>
>> Thanks, Chuck
>>
>>
>> $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web
>space.
>> 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No
>Kidding! See
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>>
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[neonixie-l] Dalibor

[chuck richards]

Does anyone have a good email contact address for Dalibor?

Thanks, Chuck


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

[chuck richards]

Yes, it's sort of the same idea as when a long freight train
grinds to a stop at less than 1 mile per hour and then you hear
the slack in all of the couplers going in, and that wave travels
the length of the train at around 30 mph, even though the train
is nearly motionless.

The secret to it seems to be that each electron does not have to
travel very far until "bumping" its neighbor.

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: yend...@internode.on.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:37:09 +1030

>Yeah, it probably is wrong. That was why I said it WAS 50 years ago.
>Maybe I 
>misremembered the figure too. They did describe the experiment that
>provided 
>the figure but I have zero recollection of that for some reason.
>Maybe I misremembered more too.  Interesting that the 3 inches per
>hour 
>would be close to 2.7 inches per hour. I still have a lot of the old
>school 
>books - I can picture the book involved as a softcover A4 on its edge
>
>variety. One that was written by a group of physics teachers
>specifically 
>for the curriculum; very easy for there to be errors in it - they got
>Static 
>and Dynamic tube/valve curves confused.
>
>Point is though, 'electrons' travel slowly, the effect travels
>quickly. Yes?
>
>jk
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "jb-electronics" <webmas...@jb-electronics.de>
>To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 3:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
>
>
>> 27ft/s seems high, see here: 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_velocity#Numerical_example
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> On 1/26/2017 9:28 PM, JohnK wrote:
>>> Many years ago [50] in school physics we were told 27 feet per
>second for 
>>> 'electrons' in wire and to treat "data/information" transfer like
>a long 
>>> tube full of ping-pong balls where you push one in at this end and
>one 
>>> falls out at the other.
>>>
>>> John K
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "jb-electronics" 
>>> <webmas...@jb-electronics.de>
>>> To: <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 5:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside
>track...
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I find particulary amusing is that the drift velocity of the
>actual 
>>>> electrons is of the order of a cm/s if I remember correctly. Jens
>>>>
>>>> On 1/26/2017 11:07 AM, chuck richards wrote:
>>>>> Yes, that is correct!  Because electricity travels
>>>>> through a wire at the approximate speed of 1 nanosecond per
>foot!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>>  Original Message 
>>>>> From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
>>>>> To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside
>track...
>>>>> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:28:47 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17-01-24 03:14 AM, Roddy Scott wrote:
>>>>>> Processor chips
>>>>>>> may have gotten a little bit bigger but not by much but could
>you
>>>>>>> imagine the size of a computer based on the ENIAC
>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC> technology and the power
>>>>>>> requirements? The original consumed 150KW and weighed about 30
>>>>>> tons, a
>>>>>>> modern day version would need its own power station and would
>take
>>>>>> up a
>>>>>>> football stadium
>>>>>> Ah but you are forgetting as Admiral Hopper liked to point out,
>the
>>>>>> size
>>>>>> of a nanosecond.  A football stadium sized computer could not
>get out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> it's own way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
>>>>>> cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
>>>>>> No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>Google
>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>it,
>>>>>> se

Re: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols

[chuck richards]

We had a large group-buy when Richardson liquidated.
I ended up buying 2 dozen NL-840 tubes for around $4.00 each.
At that same time there were a few hundred NL-5441A tubes which went
for around $5 or $6 each, but I did not get any of those.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: gregory.peet...@verizon.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:47:38 -0800 (PST)

>Hi Chuck,
>
>Out of curiosity, what Nixie's were you able to purchase from
>Richardson 
>when they liquidated?  Were the prices good?
>
>
>
>On Thursday, January 26, 2017 at 1:04:25 PM UTC-5, Chuck wrote:
>>
>> I had a look at Electol's available nixies. 
>> They have quite a few.  Maybe this is another opportunity 
>> for a bunch of us to get together and do a group purchase 
>> such as was done several years ago when Richardson Electronics 
>> liquidated their nixies. 
>>
>> Chuck 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Original Message  
>> >From: jfre...@gmail.com  
>> >To: neoni...@googlegroups.com  
>> >Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols 
>> >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:58:00 -0800 (PST) 
>> > 
>> >>Today i got an email from a company we order from at work. 
>> >> 
>> >>Its called Electols, and they will clear out their vacuum tube 
>> >section. I 
>> >>checked for nixies, and they have some. In the mail it also said 
>> >that they 
>> >>will accept offers for large quanities (. 
>> >>Maybe someone is interested in it 
>> >> 
>> >>http://electols.com/shopping/en/4-electron-tubes 
>> >> 
>> >>And for nixies: 
>> >> 
>>
>>>http://electols.com/shopping/en/search?orderby=position=de
>s 
>> >c_query=nixie 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>They also have magic eyes, dekatatrons etc, but you have to
>search 
>> >by type. 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>-- 
>> >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>Google 
>> >Groups "neonixie-l" group. 
>> >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>
>> >send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . 
>> >>To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com
>
>> . 
>> >>To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>
>>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/936a8993-80ae-4648-bec0
>- 
>> >ef6e1993edb6%40googlegroups.com. 
>> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>> >> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols

[chuck richards]

We had a large group-buy when Richardson liquidated.
I ended up buying 2 dozen NL-840 tubes for around $4.00 each.
At that same time there were a few hundred NL-5441A tubes which went
for around $5 or $6 each, but I did not get any of those.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: gregory.peet...@verizon.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:47:38 -0800 (PST)

>Hi Chuck,
>
>Out of curiosity, what Nixie's were you able to purchase from
>Richardson 
>when they liquidated?  Were the prices good?
>
>
>
>On Thursday, January 26, 2017 at 1:04:25 PM UTC-5, Chuck wrote:
>>
>> I had a look at Electol's available nixies. 
>> They have quite a few.  Maybe this is another opportunity 
>> for a bunch of us to get together and do a group purchase 
>> such as was done several years ago when Richardson Electronics 
>> liquidated their nixies. 
>>
>> Chuck 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Original Message  
>> >From: jfre...@gmail.com  
>> >To: neoni...@googlegroups.com  
>> >Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols 
>> >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:58:00 -0800 (PST) 
>> > 
>> >>Today i got an email from a company we order from at work. 
>> >> 
>> >>Its called Electols, and they will clear out their vacuum tube 
>> >section. I 
>> >>checked for nixies, and they have some. In the mail it also said 
>> >that they 
>> >>will accept offers for large quanities (. 
>> >>Maybe someone is interested in it 
>> >> 
>> >>http://electols.com/shopping/en/4-electron-tubes 
>> >> 
>> >>And for nixies: 
>> >> 
>>
>>>http://electols.com/shopping/en/search?orderby=position=de
>s 
>> >c_query=nixie 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>They also have magic eyes, dekatatrons etc, but you have to
>search 
>> >by type. 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >>-- 
>> >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>Google 
>> >Groups "neonixie-l" group. 
>> >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>
>> >send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com . 
>> >>To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com
>
>> . 
>> >>To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>
>>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/936a8993-80ae-4648-bec0
>- 
>> >ef6e1993edb6%40googlegroups.com. 
>> >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>> >> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

[chuck richards]

Yep, there's that part of it to consider as a portion
of the total overall result.

But, check it out, do the math.  The speed of light
is roughly one nanosecond per foot.

Yes, yes, electricity "flows" through a wire some tiny bit
slower than that, but the above approximation gets it well
within decent enough accuracy to aid a person in "seeing" what
is happening.

One time at Verizon we had a timing issue due to combining both 50
foot and 100 foot clock cables to different processor complexes
in a GTD-5 electronic telephone exchange.  That clock runs at 12.352
mHz.

I pointed out that the clock pulses were arriving at the end of the
100 foot cable about 50 nS later than those pulses arriving at the
end of the 50 foot cable.  That indeed was the problem.

We swapped out the 50 footers and made them all 100 footers, and
that cleared the trouble.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: webmas...@jb-electronics.de
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:14:09 -0700

>What I find particulary amusing is that the drift velocity of the
>actual 
>electrons is of the order of a cm/s if I remember correctly. Jens
>
>On 1/26/2017 11:07 AM, chuck richards wrote:
>> Yes, that is correct!  Because electricity travels
>> through a wire at the approximate speed of 1 nanosecond per foot!
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
>> To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside
>track...
>> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:28:47 -0500
>>
>>> On 17-01-24 03:14 AM, Roddy Scott wrote:
>>> Processor chips
>>>> may have gotten a little bit bigger but not by much but could you
>>>> imagine the size of a computer based on the ENIAC
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC> technology and the power
>>>> requirements? The original consumed 150KW and weighed about 30
>>> tons, a
>>>> modern day version would need its own power station and would
>take
>>> up a
>>>> football stadium
>>> Ah but you are forgetting as Admiral Hopper liked to point out,
>the
>>> size
>>> of a nanosecond.  A football stadium sized computer could not get
>out
>>> of
>>> it's own way.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
>>> cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
>>> No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>
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>>> 26e6311f3b94%40zeusprune.ca.
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>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

[chuck richards]

Yes, that is correct!  Because electricity travels
through a wire at the approximate speed of 1 nanosecond per foot!

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:28:47 -0500

>On 17-01-24 03:14 AM, Roddy Scott wrote:
>Processor chips
>> may have gotten a little bit bigger but not by much but could you
>> imagine the size of a computer based on the ENIAC
>>  technology and the power
>> requirements? The original consumed 150KW and weighed about 30
>tons, a
>> modern day version would need its own power station and would take
>up a
>> football stadium
>
>Ah but you are forgetting as Admiral Hopper liked to point out, the
>size 
>of a nanosecond.  A football stadium sized computer could not get out
>of 
>it's own way.
>
>-- 
>Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
>cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
>No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.
>
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>26e6311f3b94%40zeusprune.ca.
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RE: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols

[chuck richards]

I had a look at Electol's available nixies.
They have quite a few.  Maybe this is another opportunity
for a bunch of us to get together and do a group purchase
such as was done several years ago when Richardson Electronics
liquidated their nixies.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: jfrech...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] tubes at electols
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:58:00 -0800 (PST)
>
>>Today i got an email from a company we order from at work. 
>>
>>Its called Electols, and they will clear out their vacuum tube
>section. I 
>>checked for nixies, and they have some. In the mail it also said
>that they 
>>will accept offers for large quanities (. 
>>Maybe someone is interested in it
>>
>>http://electols.com/shopping/en/4-electron-tubes
>>
>>And for nixies:
>>
>>http://electols.com/shopping/en/search?orderby=position=des
>c_query=nixie
>>
>>
>>They also have magic eyes, dekatatrons etc, but you have to search
>by type. 
>>
>> 
>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Interested in B7971

[chuck richards]

When I built the (16) driver boards for the B-7971 array,
I used the little 4 inch square cards from Radio Shack which have
the 22/44 edge connector.  Built (2) card cages for them.  Each cage
holds (8) cards.  Used 22/44 female edge connectors with wirewrap
pins.

Chuck




>
>
> Original Message 
>From: clarkepa...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Interested in B7971
>Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 05:44:26 -0800 (PST)
>
>>I still have a few original driver boards for b7971. I could try to
>post a photo if anyone interested. 
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Interested in B7971

[chuck richards]

Many years ago I made a 16-tube array using B-7971 tubes.

Made my own driver cards for them, one card per tube.
Each of those cards has a storage buffer capable of
storing the data for its tube.  Each card has 15 driver transistors
and 15 cathode resistors.

Then I made up a data storage and scrolling circuit for it.
Made my own character generator from scratch using an eprom.
That eprom takes ascii data and puts it on the address pins,
and then the data at any address lights the appropriate tube
segments to read out the proper character.

If anyone would like any of the particulars of this thing, I'll
be happy to share them.  I purchased 32 tubes at that time, they
were 11 bucks each.

Chuck


>
>
> Original Message 
>From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Interested in B7971
>Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 08:56:15 -0700
>
>>Luka,
>>
>>Most Nixie tubes only use one cathode at a time, so a single anode 
>>resistor is sufficient for those types.
>>
>>The B7971 uses a varying number of cathodes, so an anode resistor
>will 
>>not result in constant cathode current, as its voltage drop is
>shared.
>>
>>Use a resistor per cathode. Lower value resistors for longer
>cathodes 
>>will result in a more even glow. A 20% variation in cathode current
>is 
>>probably not noticeable.
>>
>>
>>On 1/22/2017 4:29 AM, Luka C wrote:
>>> I'm actually planning on designing my own PCB for it with exact
>current
>>> limiting for each segment as per datasheet. Did you do the same or
>did
>>> you install just one anode resistor and how important is it to
>stick to
>>> the datasheet in that sense?
>>> Dana nedjelja, 22. sijecnja 2017. u 06:13:02 UTC+1, korisnik
>gregebert
>>> napisao je:
>>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>David Forbes, Tucson AZ
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] One slot on my clock keeps burning out tubes, whilethe others have been good for years. Thoughts?

[chuck richards]

Sounds like a multiplexing issue to me.
I am guessing that this particular tube in question
is getting cooked for quite a bit longer than the others.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: jwalton...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] One slot on my clock keeps burning out
>tubes, whilethe others have been good for years. Thoughts?
>Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:28:09 -0700
>
>>
>>
>>When all of the cathodes in a single tube lose large patches of
>coverage in a short period of time, it still seems that it would be a
>failure of the gas mixture.  Over driving the cathodes for a period
>of time would cause an eventual loss of brightness but it should
>cause variations among the cathodes and not a sudden loss of coverage
>on all cathodes.  
>>GregEbert suggested to look at the socket to make sure that pins
>aren't stressed, which seems to match your description of how the
>tube failed...  Three failures in the same socket does seem to be
>more than coincidence and it would be a good question to determine
>whether mechanical or electrical.   You should follow up with the
>group regarding future failures and/or findings as it is
>interesting. 
>>
>>
>> Original message 
>>From: Nicholas Stock  
>>Date: 8/16/2016  8:26 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
>>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
>>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] One slot on my clock keeps burning out
>tubes, while the others have been good for years. Thoughts? 
>>
>>Could the photocoupler at HC2 be the culprit at all? When you change
>the tubes, is the brightness of the IN14 at that position the same as
>the rest?
>>On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:10 PM, gregebert 
>wrote:
>>Since it's multiplexed, it might be worth comparing the 'on' time of
>each tube (I'm guessing it's H2 on the schematic ?). You'll need a
>scope. Maybe there is a quirk in the controller firmware that leaves
>this particular tube on longer ?? There's also a slight difference in
>the circuit around tubes H2, H3, and H4 though nothing pops out as a
>possible culprit.
>>Any chance there's a source of heat next to tube H2 ?
>>
>>Only other thing I can think of is if the particular socket puts
>more stress on this tube.
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
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RE: [neonixie-l] Shipping to Russia - Recently ?

[chuck richards]

USPS is nearly completely nonfunctional now.
Has been this way now for about the past year.

It's really bad.   It's a crapshoot every time now whether
any package will be shipped properly, or be hopelessly damaged
or lost.
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Shipping to Russia - Recently ?
>Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 10:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>In the past I've sent a few parcels to Russia without any problems.
>Parcels 
>>usually got there in a timely manner. Only one parcel didn't make
>it. 
>>Actually, it did. It got all the way to the proper city, in Russia.
>Then it 
>>got stamped "return to sender", and ended up, unopened, back on my
>door 
>>step. Full circuit time ~4 months.
>>
>>Today, somebody in Moscow, ordered a dohickie, thru eBay. I went to
>the 
>>usual routine of trying to fill out the customs form on line. A
>little 
>>problem. Looks like the US Postal Service has no country of Russia,
>or 
>>Russian Federation, in their computer. I called up the post office
>toll 
>>free number, and asked. They were no help.
>>
>>I'm wondering if anyone, here, has had any issues with parcels to
>Russia, 
>>within the last month or two ? There's some noise about Russian
>Customs on 
>>other Internet forums. I never rely on those. Too much noise. Very
>little 
>>fact.
>>
>>I'll try contacting the US State department, and see if they have
>any 
>>notices.
>>
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[neonixie-l] RE: Looking for large tubes

[chuck richards]

Try searching on Ebay by slightly mis-spelling the term "nixie".

I have done this a lot.  Did this one time, and typed in "nixi",
and up popped an auction for (4) NOS in-the-box NL-807 tubes.
Purchased those (4) tubes for $4 each.


>
>
> Original Message 
>From: jwalton...@gmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Looking for large tubes
>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 14:17:24 -0600
>
>>The ZM1040/ZM1042 are 30mm height and also have very nicely formed
>digits.  Prices range from ~$40-$60 per tube.  The Z566 is also the
>same size digit.  There are many variations in the envelope style as
>there were several manufacturers.  You can find both rounded top and
>tops that have the evacuation peak.
>>
>> 
>>
>>The IN-18 tube is a 40mm height digit and prices have increased
>dramatically in the last two years and will cost ~$55-$65 each.  I
>have only seen the Russian tubes and they all have the rounded
>envelope top.
>>
>> 
>>
>>Both ZM1040 and IN-18 tube types are available on eBay as of today,
>but you won’t find under $30/tube…
>>
>> 
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>>From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gregebert
>>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 1:43 PM
>>To: neonixie-l
>>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Looking for large tubes
>>
>> 
>>
>>IN-18's are your best option for large "affordable" nixies. At 40mm
>character height, and perfect digit shape (no upside-down 2's for
>'5') . 
>>
>> 
>>
>>Recently the price for six IN-18's has gone from around $220 US to
>$350. Luckily I bought what I needed for my 14-tube 'tomorrowland'
>clock before the price went up. I've bought from several Ebay sellers
>in Ukraine, and all of them were honest.
>>
>> 
>>
>>I can't vouch for IN-18 reliability because I havn't put many hours
>of usage on mine; others in this forum have indicated generally
>good-reliability, except for certain date-codes (1982, and possibly
>1986 if I recall, were the problematic ones). Supposedly the 'OTK'
>stamp is a good indication, but I cant confirm that because all mine
>are marked OTK.
>>
>> 
>>
>>Be careful with the pins; most of the IN-18 tubes I have use a
>softer material so they bend very easily. But I do have one
>manufactured in 1977 that has stiffer and shiny pins.
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie - Shorted segment - How to blast it apart?

[chuck richards]

I have some chinese tubes and a few of them had little gunk
pieces loose inside the glass which shorted a few digits.
Shaking and bumping them just right fixed all that.
Those tubes look to be very cheaply made, but they look great
and work great when they are working right.

Chuck






>
>
> Original Message 
>From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie - Shorted segment - How to blast
>it apart?
>Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 23:32:28 -0500
>
>>This picture is of tubes I purchased on ebay (2 of 8)
>>https://www.dropbox.com/s/lcuilr9axdssz1y/7971-Tube-Short.jpg
>> 
>>One can't be fixed (obviously), and the one had shorted.Thumped
>it hard 
>>enough to release.
>> 
>>This POST is about 3 of the 13 tubes (only 12 shipped - waiting on
>seller  
>>response (even though I completely opened the box under video
>camera)).
>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/121817475654
>> 
>>Actually, one tube has a pin completely bent inward 90deg.  I took
>the  
>>risk and was able to bend it completely normal.  tube works.
>> 
>>3 have crossed over segments.  Will post a pic if the above links 
>work.
>> 
>>Michail  Wilson
>>
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 12/9/2015 5:50:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
>>michaelxsea...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>>I'd inspect the shorts.  If it's a solid mechanical  connection
>between 
>>segments, the tapping method may be your best option, but  be
>careful!  
>>
>>
>>Blasting works OK for fine whiskers, but not strong mechanical  
>>connections, of course.
>>
>>
>>Good luck!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sunday, December 6, 2015 at 11:26:54 AM UTC-6, Michail wrote:  
>>In the past, I have received a couple of B-7971 tubes where two 
>segments 
>>are shorted in that the wire was bent enough to touch another 
>segment.  
>>
>>
>>This causes, not only both segments to light, but will short down
>the  full 
>>line of tubes (obviously depending on the build design).
>>
>>
>>Once, I was able to 'thump' the tube hard enough with a knuckle to  
>>dislodge it (risky, but I was surprised it worked).
>>
>>
>>I just purchased 13 tubes on ebay (actually, the seller shorted me
>by  one 
>>and I fortunately compeletely opened and counted tubes from the
>package  
>>while recording video - little hard to argue that).  In any case, 3
>of  the 
>>remaining tubes have the same issue.  I really would hate to risk 
>thumping the 
>>tubes in fear of breaking them.
>>
>>
>>I thought I saw at one time that someone applied power to heat it
>and  
>>shake the tube or simply apply a lot of power in order to completely
>blast  the 
>>short.  I don't recall.
>>
>>
>>Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies

[chuck richards]

 Reading your last post, I would suppose then,
that 5 volts would be considered "high tension"  :)


>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies
>Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>If you are going to sell finished products, your best option is to
>use an 
>>*external* agency-approved power-supply to produce ~12-18V. Laptop 
>>computers are a good example of this practice. Of course, you'll
>need an 
>>internal DC-DC converter so it's no longer a linear power supply :-(
>
>>
>>Regulations will vary by region, and there are organizations (UL,
>CSA, VDE, 
>>etc) that can certify your product. If you go that route, it's going
>to 
>>cost a lot of money and probably not worth the expense for something
>like 
>>nixie clocks. I'm certain that the transformer construction is a
>lesser 
>>issue; there are all sorts of things that affect approval.
>>
>>Another option is to do what I do:  chicken-out and make things only
>for 
>>yourself.  I take enough risks at my day-job because my employer has
>cost 
>>and schedule constraints developing their bleeding-edge products.
>When I 
>>make nixie clocks, I do it at my own leisure with no regard for
>cost, 
>>complexity, or schedule. I keep working on it until it's perfect.
>Then I 
>>plug it in for everyone to enjoy.
>>
>>BTW, at work we call 1.3 volts "high-voltage", and 1.5 volts is 
>>"extremely-high-voltage".  Nobody discusses 1.8 volts anymore
>because 
>>that's insanely too high to deal with
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies

[chuck richards]

Yeah.  I just take a very simplistic view of it all.

Those guys at UL test that stuff under extremely harsh conditions.
If it does not break down and fail on those tests, it is very likely
that any of those windings can be used in any way anyone wants them to
be, as long as common sense is used as far as excessive current,
voltage,
power, and heat.

One of my rules of thumb:  If it runs hot enough that I can't
hold my hand on it indefinitely, it's running too hot.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 21:14:11 -0700 (PDT)

>I did some research on UL/CSA approved transformers, and there is a 
>requirement that all windings withstand a minimum breakdown voltage,
>even 
>if they are intended to be connected together, such as
>dual-primaries. 
>Depending upon the VA rating and the voltage, the breakdown must be
>between 
>1050 and 4000 V RMS according to how I read the spec (UL5058-2 / CSA
>C22.2 
>#66). The test is conducted between 1 winding, and all other windings
>and 
>the core combined and at elevated temperature. There are copies of
>the spec 
>online.
>
>I knew there had to be some amount of isolation, but I did not
>realize it 
>was *that* high. While I would never expose or touch anything that is
>
>supposedly "isolated", it does reassure me there is decent
>insulation.
>
>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies

[chuck richards]

MPJA has some nice dual-primary type power transformers
for very affordable prices.  An LP-430, which has 4 amp.
12-volt secondary works very nicely using one of the primaries
as a secondary, and then putting the real secondary in series
with it to add a bit more voltage.

Then, after rectification and filtering, that lashup feeds to a zener
diode shunt regulator which maintains 170 volts within a volt or so.

Since I am not much up on switching supply design, and since
I kind of like big, dumb, simple sorts of things, this
HV supply seems quite workable.  It's being tested now in a nixie
clock which is spread out on solderless boards.  It uses 6 of the 8422
tubes and it uses 6 of the 74HC160 counters.

Chuck
>
>
> Original Message 
>From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
>To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Linear power supplies for nixies
>Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 23:43:05 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>2. Instead of a voltage doubler, a 'boost' supply is another way to
>get 
>>higher anode-supply voltage. One version (hvsupply.pdf) 'adds' a few
>volts 
>>to the AC line before it's rectified, though it's not isolated. I
>use this 
>>in my big clock to get around +220VDC. The other version 
>>(neondr_pwrsupp.jpg)  accomplishes the same result, but it's
>isolated from 
>>the AC line and that's desirable for safety reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>>For the non-isolated supply (hvsupply.pdf), I used a 36 V
>transformer. 
>>There's a full-wave section for 220VDC (D4 & C4). There's also a
>half-wave 
>>doubler (D1, D2, D3, C2, and C3) that generates +440V for the
>dekatron in 
>>this particular clock. R3, R12, and R4 are important for safety
>reasons: 
>>They discharge the capacitors. The role of R12 is subtle, but if you
>study 
>>the circuit you will see the discharge path thru the transformer.
>RESD2 is 
>>one of several high-value resistors in the overall design that
>provide a DC 
>>path between all supplies to reduce ESD susceptibility while the
>clock is 
>>being built.
>>
>>The isolated supply (neondr_pwrsupp.jpg) is from the clock I'm
>currently 
>>designing. This circuit has not been tested in actual usage yet, but
>I have 
>>run quite a few simulations on it. I still need to run it with
>transformer 
>>winding resistance. The rectifier (XD101) and filter cap (C101)
>provide 
>>about +180V. This clock has fourteen IN-18 tubes, each running at
>5mA, so 
>>it's a fair amount of current.
>>
>>In order to get isolation, you need a dual-primary transformer. One
>of the 
>>primaries is connected to the AC line and supplies the energy; the
>other 
>>primary winding is used as a secondary winding. When using a
>transformer in 
>>this manner for isolation, you must be careful not to exceed the VA 
>>(volt-amps) rating and that means you must include the VA
>consumption for 
>>all secondary windings (which includes the primary winding that got 
>>re-purposed as a secondary). Assuming you use a diode-> capacitor 
>>rectifier, you will want to calculate the VA rating based on peak
>current, 
>>which is higher than the load current. If you pick a transformer
>with a VA 
>>rating that's too low, you will see more losses (heat). Some will be
>
>>I-squared-R losses in the windings, and most will probably be from
>core 
>>saturation. The easiest way to determine peak current is with a
>circuit 
>>simulation (LTspice and ngspice are excellent simulators available
>for 
>>free). Or, you can just try it out and see if the transformer gets
>warm; if 
>>it does, get a higher VA rating.
>>
>>I'll post another article about designing the correct filter cap
>value.
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Transistor ID...

[chuck richards]

That GE-813 is an oddball for sure.  Absolutely no sign of
it anywhere I've looked so far.  That includes Google, my 1962
GE Transistor Manual, and the Radio Shack semiconductor
cross-reference
guide.  Nothing even close such as 2N813 nor anything like that.

Yes, in those days there were a LOT of germanium PNPs around!

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: deacon...@teleweb.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Transistor ID...
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 16:27:15 -0700 (PDT)

Hi Guys,

Working on an old Zenith battery operated clock radio (60's) The
radio I 
fixed..the clock..not so much. It's a simple thing, just a
transistor, 
center tapped coil and a cap. I need to try the transistor It's
marked 
GE-813 and I can't find it listed anywhere. I THINK it's a germanium
PNP 
but that's a guess...I was hoping maybe someone had some better info
on it.

Thanks,

Kerry

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Transistor ID...

[chuck richards]

I once had a clock which I found when someone was throwing it away.
It ran on a set of (2) D cells in series.  It was a springwound
clock, it would run for about ten minutes per winding.  When spring
tension got low, a little motor would kick in and wind it back up.
A set of batteries would last just over a year.

Finally it died because the motor eventually failed and also
the contacts to start the motor got flaky.

But it did put in a couple years of good service after I found it.

It was not a real precise timekeeper either maybe a minute or two
per week or so.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: urros...@att.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Transistor ID...
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:14:31 -0700 (PDT)



 This sounds somewhat similar to the now very old, and obsolete
clocks used 
 in automobiles around sixty years ago. They worked like this. A
spring 
 would drive the clock through an escapement. As the spring
unwound, two 
 contacts would make, and a small electromagnet would wind the
spring back 
 up very rapidly. This would happen roughly every five minutes or
so. You 
 could hear it when it happened. Of course no solid state stuff
back then, 
 just brute force mechanics. I took one apart once just to satisfy
my 
 curiosity. Pretty ingenious for the day. Thanks for the fond
memories.   
 Ira.


Actually, they were even more clever than that.  To reduce the 
manufacturing precision needed, the tension of the escapement spring
(which 
in concert with the mass of the pendulum wheel determines the tick

frequency) was adjustable.  Furthermore, the adjustment would occur,
by a 
small fixed amount, every time the clock was set.  So, if the clock
was 
running slowly, and you reset the time ahead, the spring would be
set a 
little tighter too, so that the clock would then run slightly
faster.  
After a few days of setting the time, it would be perfectly, so to
speak, 
dialed in.  The ultimate accuracy, while never great, could
definitely 
get to be around a minute per week or so.

The only time this screwed up was for daylight savings time
adjustments, 
and even this would correct itself within a day or two of resetting
the 
clock.

(I took one apart too, from the 1970 Cadillac I had in college.  At
first I 
didn't understand why some of the linkages seemed so sloppy, then I 
discovered that this was part of the auto-adjustment mechanism.)
~~

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Re: [neonixie-l] 7 digit nixie preliminary design

[chuck richards]

Wow.  Thanks for that!  It's so simple yet so
useful.  That one got saved here for future reference!  :)

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: tobiasmu...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] 7 digit nixie preliminary design
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 03:38:47 -0700 (PDT)

When I was designing my clock I decided to run the uC at 3.3V since
the gps and rf modules I wanted to use run at this voltage.

In order to communicate with the HV5522 I used a very simple
bi-directional mosfet level shifter. I read about it on a app note
and I use it since then. Although with the 5522 the link doesn't need
to be bi-directional I just went with whatever I knew.

http://www.nxp.com/documents/application_note/AN10441.pdf

Best
Tobias

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: FLW Clocks

[chuck richards]

I would maybe be able to be convinced to design something
which uses those tubes, if, for instance a trade could be worked out
so that I'd have some of them to work with.

How many of them might you have in your stash?

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: gregory.peet...@verizon.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: FLW Clocks
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 05:26:47 -0700 (PDT)

I wish someone would build a kit that uses the 5971 Alpha tube.  I
have a 
stash of these just waiting to be lit.





On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 6:41:13 AM UTC-4, celephicus wrote:

 Everyone on this list has heard of four letter word clocks. But a
clock 
 with seconds has 6 digits. Has anyone ever made a six letter word
clock?

 Tom Harris celep...@gmail.com javascript:
  

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[neonixie-l] Re: The answer is a lemon

[chuck richards]

I remember my dad telling me about those original old
TV sets from the mid 1920s.  He described the rotating disks
and he did see a display version of it somewhere in Chicago
when he was a young boy.  When he saw it, he said it had
a picture of Felix the cat which was on a rotating turntable
slowly turning around.  He said you had to put your head up to
a hood and peer down at a fairly small image.  Maybe there was a
magnifying lense down there too.

Chuck





 Original Message 
From: nixci...@jsdesign.co.uk
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  Re: [neonixie-l] The answer is a lemon
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 12:17:12 +

Looks so easy,



John S

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RE: [neonixie-l] Looking for group banner home page photos...

[chuck richards]

Well I just attempted to send you a photo Nick, but your
email address rejected my message as spam.

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: n...@desmith.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Looking for group banner home page photos...
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 02:40:09 -0800 (PST)

Some may have noticed the nice home page image at 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/neonixie-l  
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/neonixie-l

I'l looking for contributions, maybe of people's projects, maybe just

neon-related images like the current one... just for rotating on the
home 
page.

Thanks

Nick

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[neonixie-l] Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M

[chuck richards]

Dalibor,

You are doing some great work!   I know a few of the
sort of issues you deal with in putting in so much hard work
and lots of your time into these tubes.

There is no way to ever charge enough for each tube when you sell
them to pay you decently for your time.

I run into this same thing with my newly made recording-blank
cylinders for use on Edison cylinder phonographs.  You are doing
for nixie tubes what I've done for brown wax Edison blanks.

These blanks are for sale, but that is just for fun, the price
is just a token amount.  There is no way that I can ever be
compensated for the sheer amount of time this has taken.

Completely O.T., but here's my website for anyone interested:
http://www.richardslaboratories.com

Chuck Richards







 Original Message 
From: amelyena...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Dalibor's Nixie tube: R|Z568M
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 21:00:35 -0800 (PST)

Dalibor:

Have you considered adding decimal points to your tubes, or perhaps 
recreating a tube that has decimal points?

The micros that drive clocks these days have a lot of processing
power that 
can be used to display temperature, humidity and other measurements
from a 
myriad of sensors that look better in a floating point format. Using
neon 
lamps or other means of creating colons restricts the display to
just time. 
You can be very creative in displaying conventional time is a format
like 
12.34.56 (for 12 hours, 34 minutes and 56 seconds) and later display

something like 23.6 for twenty three point six degrees. My point is
that a 
tube with decimal points could be very handy for someone who wants
to go 
beyond displaying just time.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Regards, Jorge

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 11:41:48 AM UTC-8, Dalibor wrote:

 Thanks guys, I am just grateful to community for helping me with
the 
 start and so.. I want to pay back for it, and showing what I've 
 discovered might be good idea.. 

 Regards, 

 Dalibor 

 2015-02-13 18:25 GMT+01:00 jb-electronics
webm...@jb-electronics.de 
 javascript:: 
  Well put, Nick, I completely agree! 
  
  
  Jens 
  
  Nick ni...@desmith.net javascript: hat am 13. Februar 2015
um 16:29 
 geschrieben: 
  
  On Friday, 13 February 2015 14:12:21 UTC, Dalibor wrote: 
  
  ...As for the auction, the price exceeded my expectations and it
would 
 be 
  good if it stays there for some time of course ;-) 
  
   
  
  Hey - you deserve every last cent you can get - you've got
several of us 
  interested in the possibility of having a go, re-discovered and 
 implemented 
  the technology, and have produced wonderful work !! 
  
  Cheers 
  
  Nick 
  
  
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 -- 
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 phone: +420 724 321 571 
 http://www.daliborfarny.com 
 FB: https://www.facebook.com/daliborfarnycom 


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Re: [neonixie-l] Best place to get Nixies?

[chuck richards]

I scored (4) National NL-807 tubes for $16 plus shipping one 
time on fleabay by typing in NIXI into the search box.

Since it was mis-spelled, there were no other bidders.

So hey it worked once, it's worth a try.

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: nickst...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Best place to get Nixies?
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 13:29:17 -0800

IN12's are still 'reasonable'...for any given value of reasonable
that is

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 14, 2014, at 12:32, Sir Melon cheeso...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 After looking around a bit, It's been hard to find the famed
Fairly Priced Nixies keeping in mind that I'm looking for tubes of
any size (Mainly IN-14).
 Any tips? Thanks,
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RE: [neonixie-l] Round end-view tubes + long-life?

[chuck richards]

Hello,

My own personal opinion of mercury vs non-mercury and the whole
business about limited lifespan vs long life is that it really
does not make much of a difference if you are careful not to
leave your tubes on all the time.

I say this because in year 2010 I built a clock which
uses National NL-6844A end view tubes.  Those are non-mercury
and as such they have a very nice orange glow with no blue haze
because there's no mercury to cause the blue haze.

There's a small toggle switch on the front of the clock which
powers down the tubes.  That switch stays off unless I want to
have the tubes on.  

There are many tubes of that style, that same base and pinout
which look very nice.  Some of them have mercury, a few do not.

Yes they are nice.  On this most recent 2010 clock build it's all
in a clear plexiglas case which is about 6 inches tall by 6 inches
deep by 8 inches wide.  The tube sockets are mounted on the upper
portion of the clear front of the case and the tubes just poke
right out into the air.  A bit delicate, but I think it looks great
that way.   That clock was built around one of John Taylor's
little HV power supplies and I just can't say enough about how
well that little power supply works!!  Those little supplies are
well worth every penny.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: mdlad...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Round end-view tubes + long-life?
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2014 07:06:48 -0800 (PST)

Hi.  I've been building nixie clocks and recently realized just how
many 
varieties of tubes there are out there.  I'm interested in larger
(IN-4 
ish) round end-view tubes.  While the IN-4 is visually nice looking
and 
relatively inexpensive, I am concerned about it's lifespan and am
looking 
for alternatives.  I've discovered the B6091 and it seems like a
good 
choice, but I wanted to see if anyone can suggest any similar
long-life 
tubes.

Thanks!

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RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM] [neonixie-l] Socket alternatives for B9012

[chuck richards]

When I built my first nixie clock back in 1994, I had
no sockets and made my own.  They are for NL-807 and NL-803 tubes.
They have 9 pins in a circle and three pins in the center.
Same pinout pattern as NL-840.

Here is what I did:  Took one of the tubes and poked the pins through
a piece of white styrofoam from the side of a styrofoam cup.

Used that hole pattern to transfer pin-prick scribe marks on to a
piece
of thin galvanized sheet steel such as used for roofing.

Then drilled out each scribe mark with a tiny drill same diameter as
tube pins.

Then used that sheet steel hole pattern as a drilling guide and
drilled
up 6 pieces of 1/8 inch thick clear acrylic.

Once the tiny holes were drilled, then drilled each hole out to
just under the outside diameter size of some soft plastic insulation
off of some larger wire.  This plastic insulation fits snugly over
the 
tube's pins.

Cut pieces of that insulation about 3/8 inch long.  Took #30 ga. kynar
wirewrap wire, stripped off an inch or so on one end and threaded
this bare end up through the inside of each insulation piece and
folded
back down along outside, and then twisted around the insulated portion
of the kynar wire, below.

In this configuration, when the insulation is slipped over the
tube pin, the tube pin contacts the bare wirewrap wire and forms a
socket
pin.

These pins then press fit into the pre-drilled holes in the acrylic.
The result is a home-made socket which is very easy on tube pins.

Made those in 1994 and they still are working fine.

Could do the same thing for the B-9012 Pixies.

Dang I wanted some of those too, but at 15 bucks a pop that's
about 11 bucks per tube more than I am willing to pay for them...

Have fun making sockets.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: jpeak...@madlabs.info
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  [neonixie-l] Socket alternatives for
B9012
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 18:30:44 -0800

Hi All,

I just got some B9012's from Walter. He says he has never even seen
a socket for these, so I tjink the odds of finding any are pretty
low. :-(

So, over the years I have seen some discussions about various
alternatives. I tried to search through the archives but couldn't
find anything that I was sure would work with these particular tubes.
So, any recommends?

Thanks! Can't wait to play with these little buggers.

Jonathan

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RE: [neonixie-l] Which standing tubes have round/smooth tops and where tosource them?

[chuck richards]

Try National NL-5440, NL-5441, and NL-5441A.

They pop up once in a while on E-Pay.

Or, ask around in this group.  Some of those kind
were bought up several years ago by some members here in
a group-buy when the last of a large inventory was sold off
from Richardson Electtonics, which had taken over what used
to be National.

Chuck





 Original Message 
From: masterscriptmaker...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Which standing tubes have round/smooth tops
and where tosource them?
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 15:00:26 -0700 (PDT)

I'm relatively new to the nixie scene, but I already love these neon
tubes. 
I'm really interested in nixies with smooth or round tops though. I
have 
some IN-14s just to prototype with, but I'd like my finished product
to 
look more polished. I'm aware of IN-18s, but not quite comfortable
with 
spending $40 per tube. What are some other good nixie tubes of this
style, 
and where is the best place to get them? Should I keep scouring
ebay?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions

[chuck richards]

Well one thing you could do would be to take a voltage
measurement at the input to the 7805 regulator.

True that with a light load, the 7805 should run fairly
cool.  However, the 7805 also runs proportionally hotter the higher
the input voltage is.  For input voltages down around 11 or 12 volts,
it's not running very hot.  But go up around 15 volts and over, and
that little dickens starts to heat up regardless of the DC load on
the 5 volt regulated side.

In my applications for the 7805, I always use a massive heatsink
usually in the form of a good-size aluminum plate.  My earliest
nixie clock uses the .25 inch thick x 8 inch x 10 inch aluminum
base plate as the 7805 heatsink.  The 7805 runs cool on that big
plate.

Most of those little chintsy thin aluminum heatsinks with the
fins don't really do much in the way of heat dissipation, I have
found.  If you really want to take away some heat, a huge mass
of metal does the best job, in my humble opinion.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: a...@blinkenarea.org
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Nixie Clock Cool Project- a few questions
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:46:01 +0200

Hi,

Dman777 wrote:
 4) I don't understand why, the heat concentration is in the dead
center of 
 the clock, but the source of what I think is the source of the
heat...the 
 7805 voltage regulator... is of to the side of the source of the
heat 
 concentration area. 

The 7805 only powers the electronics, which I expect draws very
little
current, so the regulator will remain cool.

I think the heat source might be the MOSFET in the switching power
supply for the nixie voltage. Unfortunately it's the rather common,
but
not very good MC34063-based design, you can see the schematic in the
kit
instructions here:
http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/kits/LTC1040/LTC1040_v5.pdf. They
use
an IRFD220 MOSFET which has way too high R_DS,on for this
application IMHO.

If you don't want to replace the MOSFET (which wouldn't look too
good as
I don't think you will find a better replacement with the same
footprint), having a fan blow air onto it might indeed be a good
idea if
you can stand the noise.


Best Regards,
Arne

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RE: [neonixie-l] B7971 Ebay prices now

[chuck richards]

Remember now, everybody:

The prices are NOT going UP.

In actuality, the fiat currency AKA the U.S. Dollar is
loosing value each and every nanosecond that passes.

What was worth about $11 back in year 2000 (B-7971 tubes)
now is selling for between $75 and $100.

The tubes are worth the same value as they always have had.
But, since the market is flooded with so many new trillions
of rapidly more worthless little green hunks of printed
paper every day, it takes about 8 to 10 times as many
of these fakey little green printed trade coupons to
broker the same sort of a deal now, as it did just a few
short years ago.

This is part of the hidden myth about fake unbacked
currencies, and so-called inflation.  It is a scam.
It is nothing but a rigged game to enrich criminals
who should all be locked up.

You can thank your politicians for this.  They are the
ones who should be locked up.



 Original Message 
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] B7971 Ebay prices now
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:01:13 -0400 (EDT)




ebay has this,are there greed heads in the USA? 


B7971 one  $100 jackson, new jersey


B7971 six $750 or $125 each,saint paul minnesota


B7971 four $1200 or $300 each montrose, CA


B7971 two $150 or $75 each new york


B7971 four $700 or $125 each  , sanjose CA


B7971 four now$ 237or $60 with 28 bids ,saint louis Missouri


many are make offers so there you are ...make some offers
sooo it looks like $75 to $100 each is real world, above that is pie
in the sky



  

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971 Ebay prices now

[chuck richards]

Makes sense to me.  They are roughly $15 tubes and the
currency has been devalued to about .01 of that value.

 Original Message 
From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971 Ebay prices now
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:17:53 -0700 (PDT)

 If you think that's bad, check out the Z568M's.set of 4 for
$1500 US

I can't imagine what a set of six CD47's would go for.

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RE: [neonixie-l] IN-18 versus Z5660M Nixie Tubes

[chuck richards]

Get both kinds and try them.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: darin.hens...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] IN-18 versus Z5660M Nixie Tubes
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 10:20:31 -0700 (PDT)


I am trying to decide between Z5660M and IN-18 tubes. I am new to
all this 
and I was wondering if I could get some opinions, please:

1) I see by the measurements the size difference isn't very
significant. 
Which are considered more attractive? And why?
2) Which are considered more rare/hard to find?
3) Are the Z5660M less prone to failure? 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Favourite chips...

[chuck richards]

MPS A42.   NPN.  Used 15 per board to make driver cards
for each B-7971 tube, in a 16-tube array here.

Each of those driver boards has those 15 transistors being
operated by the outputs of (2) 74LS273 ics.  Those ics store
the segment pattern to light the tube segments in any
order, in any pattern.

Then, using the parallel-load data pins on those ics, commoned
up to a 15-bit bus, and then strobing the appropriate tube's
set of 'LS 273s, via the load pin, digits or characters can 
be put up on the tubes at will.

Soldering down 15 transistors per card, and making 16 cards
was fun, and it was done while watching lots of Howard Stern
on TV, back when he was on *plain old antenna* TV.

The cards are 4 inch square Radio Shack 276-154A, and they have
the handy-dandy 22/44 edge connector.

That so far is my favorite tube-driver project.
I made two little custom card cages holding 8 cards each, to
house these.   Then, the entire scrolling circuit and storage
of large blocks of text was done with another several bucket loads
of TTL and an old ASCII keyboard, and a non-volatile SRAM to hold
the data to be scrolled.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Favourite chips...
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 12:03:19 -0700

On 5/5/14 11:49 AM, Nick wrote:
 On Monday, 5 May 2014 18:04:34 UTC+1, nixiebunny wrote:

 For individual transistors, the SOT-23 MMBTA92 is commonly
used


 Do you mean MMBTA42 - the '92 is PNP - most folk I know of use the
'42 (NPN)

 Nick


Of course. Silly me. The '92 is a PNP anode driver transistor.
If I used them more often, I'd get those numbers straight.


-- 
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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[neonixie-l] Cheap isolation transformer

[chuck richards]

Sure that works.  I have right now a 5 volt and 170 volt
simple dual power supply operating that uses that idea.

Added a zener-shunt regulator to the 170 v output.

Look at http://www.mpja.com 

See their power transformers.

Each has two primary windings for the purpose of operating
from 110 or 220 v.   But, you can mix and match those windings
to make it do some unorthodox things, for quite cheap money.

Just get a variety of them, then keep track of how warm
or cool they run, and use your head when it comes to loading.
Lots of possibilities there, just don't burn 'em up or
start a fire, and you'll be fine!

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: gregeb...@hotmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  [neonixie-l] Cheap isolation transformer
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT)

Has anyone encountered problems using a transformer with dual primary

windings as an isolation transformer ? I'm only powering 1 primary,
and 
using the other primary as a secondary winding to provide isolated 
120VAC. I've chosen a larger unit so that I wont exceed (or even get
close 
to) the VA rating.

I know I wont get the same degree of isolation as the real thing, but

that's not important for me.

My actual project requires 3 isolated windings in 1 unit, so a
commonly 
available dual-primary/dual-secondary transformer looks like a
perfect fit.

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RE: [neonixie-l] Jaquet Droz automata...

[chuck richards]

There's a neat automaton at the Franklin Institute
in Philadelphia.

The url for it can be easily found on google
by typing in Automaton Philadelphia.

I heard about this through one of my other interests,
which is Edison cylinder phonographs.  A fellow collector
is the guy who repaired this automaton and got it working
properly again.

Have a look, it's quite interesting.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: n...@desmith.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Jaquet Droz automata...
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:13:45 -0700 (PDT)

I've always been a fan of automata - Jaquet Droz produced three
machines in 
the 1700's than amazed and astounded - The Writer, The Draughtsman
and The 
Musician - The Writer was particularly fascinating as it could be
set to 
write any sentence in a cursive script - a wondrous thing...

The company still exists and has produced some modern versions of
these 
devices, including a magnificent clock that writes out the time on
bits of 
card... using only 1,400 stainless steel and aluminium components:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3t7QfVFNbY

A new version of The Writer has also been made as a signing
machine - 
completely mechanical, it is protected by a 4-digit security code
and is 
bespoke to the customer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA89XMzGrAA

Just love this sort of stuff!

Nick


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RE: [neonixie-l] V400 carnage

[chuck richards]

That picture reminds me of a telephone answering machine
which mysteriously failed.

Upon taking it apart, I found out why it was keeping the
telephone line busy all the time.

The board had a big carbonized burned spot on it much like
your picture shows.  Apparently, as far as I could tell,
there was a cockroach in there sitting across the traces
just when a lightning strike hit.  It fried the roach across
the phone line conductors and burned the board black.

(oh the joys of living in the Florida swamp!)

It was a simple repair.  I scraped the fried roach remains
off, and then went about carving down between the traces with
an exacto knife until I hit virgin board material.

Ohmed it out until is was open again, and afterwards it worked ok.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] V400 carnage
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 15:05:50 -0700

This clock had a hard life. The PC board was baked from the
transistor overheating. There was also a carbonized spot to the left
of the transistor, where the far end of the rectifier diode pad was
placed very close to the transistor, with a ground plane in there
too! 0.5mm spacing between traces with 200VAC on them. I don't know
which was the chicken and which the egg.  





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RE: [neonixie-l] SPAM: group is being spammed (a bit)...

[chuck richards]

Yeah, me too. Thanks for letting us know.
I thought I was being hacked and messages were being sent from
my account.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: russell-tay...@hotmail.co.uk
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] SPAM: group is being spammed (a bit)...
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:14:38 +

Thanks Nick,  I was concerned that I'd been 'hacked' and was
inadvertently sending out emails.

Russell. 

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 02:02:38 -0700
From: n...@desmith.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] SPAM: group is being spammed (a bit)...

Apologies if any of you on email delivery are receiving odd messages
about posts being rejected etc.
The group is being spammed in a fairly subtle way - I'm hiding the
messages but goooglegroups is getting confused.
It'll be sorted ASAP
Nick (moderator)




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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox

[chuck richards]

Great to see the Radio Shack P-Box kits again!

But, where's the intercom?  I guess by that time
it was discontinued.  I used that one more than any
of the others.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: jreh...@mac.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Whatbox
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 07:40:01 -0400

 Back to blinking neon lamps. Here's the circuit used in that old
Radio Shack kit:

There's a great resource of the old Radio Shack P-Box kits here:

http://my.core.com/~sparktron/pbox.html

The 28-130 Goofy Lite is there, along with all its instructions. 
The page with the schematic is here:

http://my.core.com/~sparktron/130P6.JPG

Not too much to it, a 2SB54 germanium PNP transistor driving a
1k:200k step-up transformer (part number 99-3-203, which is a Radio
Shack 273-1376, which appears to be a Xicon EI-19 core.  I doubt this
circuit has enough oomph to light up a nixie, however.  It probably
only manages 90V or so, at not much current.

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock

[chuck richards]

Sounds to me like a classic problem when using
digital logic to do stuff for which it was not intended
to do.   Operating them outside of published specifications
always leads to erratic performance.

Just my two cents worth.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: brianw1...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 15:34:24 -0700 (PDT)

Thanks guys, I guess...I was hoping there might be a solution or
something 
in particular to check. 
What I don't get is that this is the third of these that I've made,
and the 
other two had no problems at all. In fact, I took this one and
plugged it 
in next to one that's been running (with perfect accuracy) for
years, and 
this new build displayed the same fast-running and erratic behavior.
I 
bought parts for all these at the same time, too- no difference
there 
although maybe there are manufacturing variations?
Thanks,
-Brian

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Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock

[chuck richards]

Let us not forget the Dallas/Maxim DS32KHZN/DIP TXCO.
That puts out a fairly accurate 32.768 kHz, guaranteed
within +/- 2 ppm.

For much greater accuracy, I've devised a programmable
pulse-remover which shaves off a predetermined amount
of pulses each hour.  This, because every one of those
TCXOs I've encountered tends to run a bit fast.

I've got the remover removing 110 pulses per hour
in one clock right now, and it's been free-running since
Oct. 17, 2013, and presently at this time, it's lost
about half a second.   Not bad for 5 months free-running.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: n...@desmith.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 08:12:54 -0700 (PDT)

On Monday, 17 March 2014 14:35:21 UTC, Adam Jacobs wrote:

  I can tell you that if you want to advance one of these clocks in
your 
 house hours at a time by remote control, all you need to do is
work some CW 
 in the basement. :D


Now that the mains (in the UK at least) has no guaranteed long-term 
accuracy (UK does not subscribe to UCTE), it makes far more sense to
use a 
4060  a 32,768Hz watch xtal - that gives you a 2Hz output that you
can use 
a latch to divide by two to 1Hz - much more reliable... or to use a
DS3231 
for even greater accuracy...

I spoke to mike about this clock some years back at a UK Teslathon -
that's 
when he commented about not doing a design like this nowadays - he's
a 
serious professional engineer (have you seen his massive
polychromatic UFO 
flying over Rio de Janeiro  Gdansk? 
http://www.dezeen.com/2008/07/15/ufo-by-peter-coffin-and-cinimod-stu
dio/)

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock

[chuck richards]

The way the pulse-remover works is at the end of
each hour it gets triggered, which shuts off the
32.768 kHz pulses from getting to the first
divider stage of the clock.

A binary counter then counts out the removed pulses
which are entered on an 8-bit dip switch.

At the end of the counting, a flip-flop is clocked which
returns the pulse stream to normal.

So far in my experiments with this remover which I have
on 4 clocks here, it averages out to around 110 to 115
pulses which need to be removed each hour.  Each individual
TCXO is a bit different.

If I ever encounter a slow TCXO, I've got some ideas
for making a pulse-stuffer instead.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: n...@desmith.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Erratic Harrison clock
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 08:58:21 -0700 (PDT)

On Monday, 17 March 2014 15:46:33 UTC, Chuck wrote:
...

 For much greater accuracy, I've devised a programmable 
 pulse-remover which shaves off a predetermined amount 
 of pulses each hour.  This, because every one of those 
 TCXOs I've encountered tends to run a bit fast. 

 
Essentially this is a digital low-pass filter - Ronald Dekker does
the same 
on his nixie clocks some of which use almost the same way of getting
the 
mains frequency - you can also determine the fundamental, i.e. is
the clock 
running on 50 or 60Hz mains, and adjust accordingly...

Nick

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RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards....

[chuck richards]

That should be easy enough to do.  I don't have the
equations memorized for this.  If it was me attempting
to do it, I'd start by grabbing any and all math and
physics books, and looking up pendulums and periods
and stuff like that.  Sooner or later if you do that,
you'll find the equation which describes the velocity
at any given point in the swing.

Once you know that, then you can go back to your
time slices and your bits, and then assign them so that
they come the closest possible at each point that you
have defined.

Grab all the books, blow the dust off, and have fun!!
This is a good one, and congratulations for doing it!
Let us know how it turns out.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: bvd...@xplornet.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:43:44 -0500

Yes, I am with you so far. My challenge is to actually put that
knowledge to
work, and find the correct numbers.

 

Cheers, Bill

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tidak Ada
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:03 AM
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards

 

Remember the swing velocity is a (co)sine function. The highest
speed is in
the zero crossing the tops are the left and right ends of the swing
with a
speed zero.

 

eric

 

  _  

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bill van Dijk
Sent: zaterdag 22 februari 2014 16:31
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards

Hello,

 

I have built a clock controlled by a PIC with 6 numitrons in the
centre.
Around them is a circle of 60LEDs which are programmed to display a
number
of different patterns. I am currently working on a pendulum pattern
which
uses the lower 30 LEDs. I have the software done, the challenge is
this:

 

A pendulum has a period and an angular velocity that changes from 0
at the
ends, and maximum in the center, following an equation. In the
software I
currently have 36 time slices (program steps, 0 to 35) in a half
period of
107 clock cycles, for a total of 3852 cycles for one swing (left or
right). 

 

Looking at one swing, my challenge now is to divide the 36 program
steps of
107 clock cycles such that the total number of clock cycles remains
3852,
but the actual number of clock cycles per step are divided such as
to
approximate the equation of one pendulum swing  (left or right). 

 

Anyone willing to take a stab at this?

 

Bill van Dijk

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RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards....

[chuck richards]

It's the instantaneous velocity at your points that
you're after.

That's the first derivative as I recall.
Once you know these instantaneous velocities, then the
problem becomes arriving at the timing between shutting
one LED off, and turning the next one on.

In this way, the LEDS will fool the eye into
seeing the prescribed instantaneous velocity
during each interval.

To show yourself how this works, you could simply
start out with an intuitive guess at some values, plug
them in, and watch it go for a while.

At first it may not look much like a real pendulum
if the numbers are way off.  But then you can make another
iteration and try it again, speeding things up some
here, maybe slowing it down a little there, etc.

After a while, you should be able to get your values
pretty much lined up with the real math, but you really
don't need to sweat that much at first just to get
something going to see it and to try it.

Usually, these sorts of things will help you along
if you give them a chance, simply by rigging up
a crude first approximation enough to watch it work.

Then, later on, make it agree with the math.

Chuck

 Original Message 
From: bvd...@xplornet.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 14:06:59 -0500

Hi Chuck,

It appears you and I have different definitions of fun! :-)

I do still have the books btw, and I did look it up, found the
formulas, and
realized I don't know what to do with them anymore (It is a function
of age
I suppose; according to the sidebar notes I did know 40+ years ago.
Who'da
thunk). It would be something like giving me a sonic screwdriver;
I'd
have no idea what to do with that either!

At the risk of fully exposing myself, I distinctly remember a
university
professor announcing that they recently invented something they
called a
transistor. He warned us not to be distracted by these things,
nothing could
ever be invented that would replace the thermionic valve! As funny as
that
is today, he was not as far off as some may think. Most of us still
use tube
equipped appliances. I do not yet see a practical semiconductor
replacement
for the magnetron in our microwave ovens!

Bill


-Original Message-
From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of chuck richards
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 1:50 PM
To: bvd...@xplornet.com; neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards

That should be easy enough to do.  I don't have the equations
memorized for
this.  If it was me attempting to do it, I'd start by grabbing any
and all
math and physics books, and looking up pendulums and periods and
stuff like
that.  Sooner or later if you do that, you'll find the equation which
describes the velocity at any given point in the swing.

Once you know that, then you can go back to your time slices and your
bits,
and then assign them so that they come the closest possible at each
point
that you have defined.

Grab all the books, blow the dust off, and have fun!!
This is a good one, and congratulations for doing it!
Let us know how it turns out.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: bvd...@xplornet.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 11:43:44 -0500

Yes, I am with you so far. My challenge is to actually put that
knowledge to
work, and find the correct numbers.

 

Cheers, Bill

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tidak Ada
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:03 AM
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards

 

Remember the swing velocity is a (co)sine function. The highest
speed is in
the zero crossing the tops are the left and right ends of the swing
with a
speed zero.

 

eric

 

  _

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
[mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bill van Dijk
Sent: zaterdag 22 februari 2014 16:31
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Math wizzards

Hello,

 

I have built a clock controlled by a PIC with 6 numitrons in the
centre.
Around them is a circle of 60LEDs which are programmed to display a
number
of different patterns. I am currently working on a pendulum pattern
which
uses the lower 30 LEDs. I have the software done, the challenge is
this:

 

A pendulum has a period and an angular velocity that changes from 0
at the
ends, and maximum in the center, following an equation. In the
software I
currently have 36 time slices (program steps, 0 to 35) in a half
period of
107 clock cycles, for a total of 3852 cycles for one swing (left or
right). 

 

Looking at one swing, my challenge now is to divide the 36 program
steps of
107 clock cycles such that the total number of clock cycles remains
3852,
but the actual number of clock cycles per step are divided such as
to
approximate the equation of one pendulum swing  (left or right). 

 

Anyone

Re: [neonixie-l] Help with upgrading my soldering iron

[chuck richards]

I recommend http://www.mpja.com
Look at their little inexpensive soldering stations.

I have one.  It cost about $19.  Tips cost a few
bucks each.  It is temperature-controlled.

Works very slick, very nice.  I've used it for hundreds
of hours and the original tip has not even been worn
not even a little.

Check it out.  It's about the best bang for your buck
you're going to get on a temperature controlled soldering
station, in my humble opinion.

Chuck






 Original Message 
From: j...@neon-john.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Help with upgrading my soldering iron
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:40:26 -0500



On 02/16/2014 01:12 PM, blkadder wrote:
 Greetings All,
 
 I am hoping you can help me make a decision.  I have been using my
Radio 
 Shack 25w soldering iron for a few years now, and it is time to
upgrade.  I 
 have been scouring boards and other Interwebz sites, and I think I
have 
 narrowed it down to two.

 Aoyue 968A SMD Digital Rework
Stationhttp://www.amazon.com/dp/B006FA481G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?
_encoding=UTF8colid=3VUV96XRTQWGXcoliid=I348QKU3RA8ENW

I've been using the Aoyue station for 4 or 5 years now.  It's pretty
decent.  The hot air part is great with one small exception.  The
controller loses its setpoint on any power glitch.  The soldering
iron
is OK.  It's a bit unwieldy with that smoke sucker tube, even after
the
tube is removed.  I Dremeled the tube boss off the handle and then
it
was fine.

The vacuum pickup is totally worthless.  Just toss it in the garbage
and
get a dedicated one if you need that functionality.

We buy our stuff here:

http://sra-solder.com/

He stocks plenty of spare parts.  I've had to replace the iron once
after the temperature sensor went bad.  Quick service and as cheap
as
Amazon.

John


-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Any experience with this eBayer or his products?

[chuck richards]

Speaking of straight neon and supposedly short lifespan:
I have a 6-digit clock that has National NL-6844A tubes
sticking out from the front of it.   Have had it running now
since 2010, and it seems to be doing very well.
I do like the 6844A tubes as they make clear, sharp, bright
numerals.   Anyone out there ever use these, and if so, what
is your experience with the lifetime of them?

Thanks,  Chuck Richards

 Original Message 
From: krasnaya.zve...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Any experience with this eBayer or his
products?
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:28:29 -0800 (PST)

Other than the weird socket, IN-1 was straight neon so it has quite a
short 
lifespan. Later tubes had a little Hg added which greatly increases
life 
(at the cost of the 'purple haze').



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 1:36:29 PM UTC-6, Rick G wrote:

 I see what you're saying. That is strange to remove the shell from
the 
 glass. I'll have to look closely at his other items too.

 What do you mean when you say the IN-1 was not good?


 On Sunday, February 9, 2014 3:48:00 AM UTC-7, TouMu wrote:

 Hi Rick,

 I think the IN1 clock is funny.Though IN1 was not good,the seller
remove 
 the shell.;-)
 The other...I think it's all right.

 Cheers
 TouMu

 On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:19:36 PM UTC+8, Rick G wrote:

 Hello, I'm new to the group! Hopefully I can get a bit of your
wisdom 
 and experience. 

 I'm looking at some items for sale on eBay by this seller:
 http://m.ebay.com/seller?sid=a12u4

 Can anyone here vouch for the guy and his products? He seems to
have 
 some designs I've not seen anywhere else, and some pretty
decently 
 reasonable prices too.  In fact, the prices make me concerned
that I could 
 be getting ripped off by the dude. I know his eBay feedback is
great, but 
 what do you think?

 Rick



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RE: [neonixie-l] Tube making supplies

[chuck richards]

Thanks for posting that John!  I have checked their
site a few times before, and it looks like they've
now added many more items.

By the way, have you put any more of the 4-wheeled
boom boxes out of commission lately?  Always interested
to hear more about documented kills.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: j...@neon-john.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Tube making supplies
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:03:33 -0500

Hey guys,

This came across the Neon-l list.

http://electrontubestore.com/

They sell components for people who make their own tubes.  I've made
some specialty tubes such as X-ray tubes and BF3 neutron detection
tubes
but I had no idea there were enough others to support a business.

Anyway, this should be useful for Nixie tube makers.

John

-- 
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Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.fluxeon.com  -- THE source for induction heaters
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold

[chuck richards]

Yes, the aspirin trick is a great one on the enameled
wire!   I think of this place every time I use it.

I've built many circuit cards on Vector #3677 plugboards.
They are about 4.5 inch x 9.5 inch, and they have
a 22/44 edge connector, and a hole pattern for 3 columns
of ics.

I use #30 ga wirewrap wire as soldered jumpers.
I run the jumpers on the top side, leaving the
solder side being just the solder joints.

One really nice advantage of the Kynar insulation is
that it has a very small amount of shrink-back when
soldered.   I have found that many other wires such as
stranded wires from ribbon cable tend to have lots
of shrink-back, which can be a real pain.

I also tend to juice up most of my solder joints with
a little extra flux to make the solder flow easily.
I use some special non-conductive flux for these boards
with the tiny close-spaced traces.

Yeah, they are through-hole parts, and that stuff is
plenty small enough for me!   I have not worked on SMD
yet, and do not especially relish the thought of it.

Chuck





 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: resistance of filament warm vs cold
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 17:44:12 -0800

Yes, but why use enamel coated wire in the first place? I've only
ever used
it for winding inductors and transformers. I hate the stuff. Dipping
in
molten solder usually works to remove the enamel, with a clean-up
pass
using sandpaper.
My favorite protoboard wire is the old 80-wire PATA ribbon cables.
In
Seattle, I can buy the ribbon cable for $1, giving me quite a bit of
good
wire for the price. The wires easily separate with fingernails and
the
insulation easily strips with fingernails too. Avoid the 40-wire
version,
those use stranded wire instead of solid-core.

-Adam


On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM, AlexTsekenis
alextseke...@gmail.com wrote:

 For any diameter of enamel-coated wire larger than a strand of
hair, the
 burnt enamel should be removed to expose the copper. Otherwise
solder
 wetting will be poor and the soldering process frustrating.
 You can do this using fine sandpaper, a file, or a sharp knife.
Burning
 the enamel first makes removal easier. For thin wires the
soldering iron is
 adequate. Larger diameters require a lighter. Even large diameters
a small
 blowtorch. Tin the wire prior to soldering using a generous amount
of flux.
 This will also show you if you did a good job scrapping off the
burnt
 enamel.

 Alex

 On Sunday, December 8, 2013 10:55:05 PM UTC, Gideon Wackers wrote:

 Well the first board is filled with tubes, and my head is filled
with
 headache from peering at the board.. The enameled wire was very
hard to
 solder even after burning off the enamel layer. Although I do not
dare to
 show the abomination that I call soldering the tubes are all
connected.
 Don't worry I know how to solder, but the enamel wire was giving
me a very
 hard time. The nice thing about the enamel wire was that it was
easy to go
 through the forest of component legs. I'm off to bed.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Another progress in making nixies

[chuck richards]

We all need to be sending letters of recommendation
to the Vatican, stating that Dalibor be granted sainthood!

Because what Dalibor has accomplished, is nothing
short of a miracle!

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: dali...@farny.cz
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Another progress in making nixies
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 09:48:09 +0200

Hello!

I shot a short video of my tubes in action here:
http://dalibor.farny.cz/nixie-clocks-for-a-contest/

Tubes are now after aging process (around one day on 4 times higher
current, each digit) - that made much more uniform glow on all
digits.
They are running around one week (24/7) now.

Thanks for watching!

Dalibor

2013/10/7 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz:
 Hello guys,

 thanks for support, it is very good motivation! I am actually
working
 all the day on that stuff!

 Nicholas Stock: Once I manage those small 5cm digit tubes (and get
 some cash), I am going to improve my glassblowing stuff so that I
am
 able to work with bigger diameter glass. I am going to make even
 bigger tubes! ;-)

 Jon: It is no problem to make an argon filled tube, however its
glow
 is very dim and not much visible in daylight. Once I finish that
clock
 project I am working on, I will make it! Just remind it.

 Bye!

 2013/10/7 Jon dekat...@nomotron.com:
 Beautiful work - just goes to show what somebody smart and
determined can
 achieve.

 Now, any chance we can see one of these tubes with an argon fill?
Just love
 the idea of a genuine purple nixie...

 Jon.



 On Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:24:37 PM UTC+1, Dalibor wrote:

 Regular report, guys ;-)

 http://dalibor.farny.cz/another-nixie-tubes-made/

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RE: [neonixie-l] Found a drawerful of 7441s!

[chuck richards]

Wow.  Screwed again!   That's about like every time
I walk in to Skycraft in Orlando, FL and walk back
to their drawers of TTL.  I always check the drawers
labeled 7441, 74141, 74142and I always see the same
old dust in each of them, but no ics.

However, checking the 4500 drawer, I found it slam full!!
Bought 5 of them, and have yet to fire up a 4500, but
am planning to when I have some time.  4500 is a one-bit
16-instruction processor.  And, here's the best part
about it:  It can run at a clock speed from DC to 1 mHz.
I like the DC part.  (can you say push-button?)

Chuck Richards




 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Found a drawerful of 7441s!
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:24:38 -0700

I am working on the Submillimeter Telescope today, fixing a fine old

German instrument.

I found a parts cabinet with TTL part numbers on all the drawers.

Here's the 7441 Nixie driver drawer:

http://www.nixiebunny.com/7441drawer.jpg

-- 
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone else having problems with unreliable IN-1tubes ?

[chuck richards]

My answer to it is to have a toggle switch on my clocks
that turns the tubes on and off.

The tubes are off most of the time, and turned on
when the clock is to be enjoyed.

My most recent clock has (6) NL-6844A tubes, and those
don't have mercury.

Chuck









 Original Message 
From: threeneur...@yahoo.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Anyone else having problems with
unreliable IN-1tubes ?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 07:37:16 -0700 (PDT)

The IN-1 does not contain mercury, so it has a shorter lifespan. I
had a 
similar problem with some IN-4s. But that one, the zero, in the 10
hours 
position, would be eaten away in only about a year. Of course, the
little 
tid bits of metal would short other nearby cathodes.

I think as a rule of thumb, mercury enhanced nixies should only be
used for 
clocks that run 24/7. Use the non-mercury tubes in projects where
they are 
on only periodically, and hopefully, infrequently. Things like
meters, or 
games.

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[neonixie-l] Nixies for a friend.

[chuck richards]

Greetings everyone!

I am currently offering to help a friend of mine, who
is new to nixie tubes.

He is a retired telephone company switching tech, and he
has a solid electronics background.  He has made a few
scratchbuilt clocks, and has them running using 7-segment
LED readouts.

He also has built an all-relay clock based on the
circuit drawing of the Western Electric #5 crossbar
telephone exchange's time of day clock.  That is a sight
(and sound) to behold.   Its visual output is lamps.

He did find and purchased some 7441 driver ics and I gave
him a few various nixies to test.  I also gave him a copy
of the National Readout Tube data brochure.

Lately he has been scouring ebay looking at various tubes.
There are some NL-5440s up for auction with sockets right
now, but with no bids, and we both wondered why.

That reminded me of the infamous Richardson bulk buy of
5 or 6 years ago, when those thousands of NL-5440s and
NL-840s were purchased.

So, I am asking here on this forum, in behalf of my
friend, if anyone out there might be willing to wheel
and deal on some of those Richardson bulk buy tubes.

(Or any other tubes, for that matter...)
Such as 8422.  Any of those out there for sale?

He is only looking for maybe ten or a dozen tubes
and with sockets if available.

Just thought I'd ask here to see what might be out there.

Thank you!

Chuck Richards




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Re: [neonixie-l] HVPS for nixie clock kit

[chuck richards]

I have one of the 1363 models in a small clock that I built in 2010
to test that power supply.   It is completely wonderful!

A great little thing if I ever saw one!!

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: j...@tayloredge.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] HVPS for nixie clock kit
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 13:51:18 -0700 (PDT)

The 1363 and 1364 have been in production for about 5 years and are
the 
same circuit in two different form factors. 

There is a variant of the 1363, the 1363 RevB, that includes the app
note 
9003 http://ppl.ug/2sYmV9PWF1w/ modification for PFM mode
supression (AKA 
Noise) and are tested specifically for noise level.  These were
designed 
for and used in the Kickstarter RAMOS nixie alarm clock and are
available 
on request.  The 1364 with the modification can also be supplied.

jt

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Sourcing Large Quantities of 5870s Nixies

[chuck richards]

Funny how that works, isn't it?

Something will sit there for ages at a low and fair price.
Then, as soon as anyone expresses any interest in said
item, the price instantly shoots way, way up.

It's as if they think I was born yesterday and just
got off the boat.  Sheesh.

One guy at an electronics outlet tried that one on me
for some TTL crystal oscillators he had advertised.
I wrote him a very terse email about what he tried
to pull on me and he felt so guilty he ended up
sending me 4 of them no charge.

Chuck (who was born yesterday and just got off the boat)




 Original Message 
From: t...@lasermad.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Sourcing Large Quantities of 5870s
Nixies
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:15:09 -0700 (PDT)

Have a look at the current ebay prices of IN-7 nixies for an
example...

I have a design that was completed late last year but have no
intention of announcing it until I've managed to buy enough tubes at
a
reasonable price. One seller I approached for a quote increased
their
ebay listing price of the tube I was interested in by 50% within 5
minutes of my enquiry.

It's a sellers market and will only get worse as supplies dry up.

On Mar 14, 3:04 am, Terry Kennedy terry+googleb...@tmk.com wrote:
 On Mar 13, 4:55 pm, Adam Jacobs jacobs.a...@gmail.com wrote:

  I think that (based on the current supply of nixies), if I was
to design
  and build a new clock right now I would use IN-12's.

 Deciding on the desired tube, buying up available stocks, and
_then_
 announcing the new clock is probably the best way to go. Look at
what
 happened to the price of IV-4/IV-17 displays when the IV-17
 Smartsocket was announced - the price per tube jumped from
$1.50-ish
 to $4-$8 per tube, and that's without an ongoing supply of
Smartsocket
 boards to drive them.

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[neonixie-l] Re: NL7094 is a myth!

[chuck richards]

Of course they exist!  It is listed right on page 5 of
the National Electronics Readout Tubes data brochure.
It is the right-most listing on that page.
It shows NL-7094 to be the numerals 0 thru 9 and with
the symbols + and - being NL-825.

Recommended operation: 200 Vdc: 9.1K, 250 Vdc: 16k, 300 Vdc: 24k
Fits socket RTS-5, (same socket as B-7971 fits).

I saw 6 of them in sockets mounted in a bezel about 3
years ago on ebay, and the bids went clear out of this
universe...

Now, how about NL-7037?   Anyone ever see any of those?
It's the front view version.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: nickst...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] NL7094 is a myth!
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 20:35:15 -0800

ooohh, they're lovely. I daren't ask what the going price of these
are...;-)


On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 8:32 PM, MichaelB badni...@badnixie.com
wrote:

 Ahaa!!! That's where they are Dieter's got them all!!!
Should've
 known! Send me an email Dieter..if you feel you JUST don't have
room for 6
 of those big 'ole nasty things anymore.


 On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 8:23:52 PM UTC-8, Nocrotec wrote:

  They exist and they glow nice! ;-)
 (attached)


 - Original Message -
 *From:* MichaelB
 *To:* neoni...@googlegroups.com
 *Sent:* Thursday, March 07, 2013 4:57 AM
 *Subject:* [neonixie-l] NL7094 is a myth!

 OK, so this hobby has been an obsession of mine for about 8 years
now (no
 where near as long as many on this forum), but I have YET to see
a 7094
 available, anywhere! All the other rare Nixie's pop up from time
to time,
 CD 47, F9020AA, etc., but never the Burroughs 7094, that I have
seen. Is it
 that there weren't that many of these manufactured or is somebody
hoarding
 these monsters? Any thoughts from the old nixie-salts who MUST
have seen
 some of these out there in the past? And I swear..they don't
exist!!

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Re: [neonixie-l] Futurlec?

[chuck richards]

Well Futurlec looks to have some pretty decent
prices on a few items I have been looking for.
4536 is 36 cents each for (25) or more.
Digi-Key's best price for 4536 is 41.32 cents each.

74HCT245 costs 29 cents each at Futurlec, where as
Digi-Key's best price is around 37 cents.

4538 costs 40 cents each at Futurlec.   Those pop up
at various other places for anywhere from 50 cents to a buck
each!

Futurlec also has some nice 5 volt DPDT relays that have
2 amp contacts and have the standard 16-pin DIP pinout.
Those cost around 80 cents each.  Best price for them
elsewhere is $1.49 each.

Futurlec also has some very reasonable shipping costs.
They do NOT charge sales tax, either

That is one thing I find very annoying about Digi-Key
any more.  Ever since they started charging sales tax
unless one has a tax number I find myself feeling like
I got ripped off every time I order from them.

Digi-Key is fast and they package the stuff very professionally.
For what they charge for everything including tax and shipping
they darn well ought to be professional!

Maybe I will give Futurlec a try.
Sounds like there is at least a fighting chance of
actually receiving the goods.

Thanks everybody for your insights about this.

Hey while I am at it, anyone know where to get
XR2206?   Jameco lists them at $6.49 each!!

Ebay is much cheaper for XR2206, down around $2 each,
but there one must deal with most dubious sources from
Taiwan and China.  Anybody know where a stash of cheap
XR2206 ics might be hiding?

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: cm...@zeusprune.ca
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Futurlec?
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 17:23:44 -0500

On 13-02-24 03:07 AM, chuck richards wrote:
 Anyone here have any experience ordering from Futurlec?
 Looks like they have some good prices, but how's their
 delivery time?

It has been a while.. but I have ordered from them in the past. 
They 
seem to take a couple of weeks to Process the order, then they
airmail 
it from Some place like Thailand.  Don't know if that is actually
their 
headquarters or not.


-- 
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
http://Charles.MacDonald.org/tubes
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

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Re: [neonixie-l] B7971 tubes

[chuck richards]

I have a few very cheaply made Chinese nixies that
work very well when everything is right with them.
Very nice tubes really.  But, a couple of them lit up
all kinds of stuff right out of the box and...
tap...tap...tap...(with a finger) then tried it again 
and problem solved!  :)

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: micha...@aol.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] B7971 tubes
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 01:22:26 -0500 (EST)

Yes, I have a couple of those left, although experienced several.
 
one was solved with slight bumping.
 
I was told that you could try to send extra power to hopefully break
the  
bond between the two.
 
Don't have a real solution, but have seen it several times.  I
believe  I 
have 3 with this issue.
 
Michail
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/17/2013 10:19:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
nickst...@gmail.com writes:

Has anybody else on this list encountered a B7971 that  illuminates 
multiple segments upon testing when only one pin is energized  (i.e.
an apparent 
internal short)? Are there any remedies to this?  


Nick

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RE: [neonixie-l] Black'n'Wood Nixie Clock is available

[chuck richards]

Whoa!  That is one handsome nixie clock!
The blue background glow makes it look like the
warp drive is switched on...  Beam me up, Scotty!

Well Done!  :)

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: i...@nocrotec.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Black'n'Wood Nixie Clock is available
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 17:59:15 +0100

Hi Nixie Friends,
The Black'n'Wood Nixie Clock is available now.
Check it out:
http://www.nocrotec.com/shop/product_info.php/info/p162_Black-n-Wood
-Nixie-Clock.html
Hope you like it and your comments are welcome as ever.
DIETER
http://www.nocrotec.com/

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[neonixie-l] Re: Why driver ICs?

[chuck richards]

Hi Allen,

There are several sources of data sheets online for various nixies
and also for the driver ics.   Don Lancaster's books
The TTL Cookbook and The CMOS Cookbook are great references
that explain a lot about using digital logic ics.
If you want to build a nixie clock from scratch the old
way using discrete logic ics, these books are a great guide
to methods.

http://www.wps.com has quite a few nixie and driver
ic datasheets.

By the way, you have a great web site!  Fascinating!
I read the article you have the link to about the
crew cabin of space shuttle Challenger.  And I also like
the things about the numbers stations

My website is http://www.richardslaboratories.com
I make wax cylinder recording blanks for Edison cylinder
phonographs.

Chuck



 Original Message 
From: alleyc...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Why driver ICs?
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 15:27:33 -0800 (PST)

Thanks for the replies folks! I do know about the importance of
current 
limiting (based on the research I did before building my tester), but
I 
forgot to mention that I *did* indeed include a series
resistor...however, 
I calculated the resistance based on a current limit of 20-30 mA,
rather 
than the lower limit someone suggested; I'll have to review the specs
for 
my ZM1000's and verify the basis of my decision.

I hope to develop some more complicated (for me, anyway) devices
soon, and 
sure appreciate having the support and wisdom of this group :)

-allen
KC2KLC

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RE: [neonixie-l] Why driver ICs?

[chuck richards]

Hi Allen,

Welcome aboard!  Nixies are very enjoyable things to
work with.

First off, you need to have a current-limiting resistor
in series with your 170 volts!!!   15k is a good nominal
value to start with.

Most nixies of that size need to have their current limited
to around 2 or 3 milliamperes.  A real nice old book to
have that explains the 74141 driver ic is Don Lancaster's
TTL Cookbook.  You can find a copy from most used booksellers
for fairly cheap.

Basically you can rough out the nixie current by taking
the power supply voltage minus the strike voltage and
dividing that by the resistance value.

In this general case those numbers would be 170 minus 150
which is 20 and then divide that my 15,000.  That comes
to .0013 or 1.3 milliamps.

If you'd use 10K then those numbers would be 170-150=20
then 20/10k =.002 or 2 milliamps.

All nixies have a data sheet that shows the recommended
power supply voltage, the average strike voltage, and the
recommended current, and the recommended series resistance.

But you MUST have the series resistance otherwise you will
overdrive the nixie and ruin it very very fast!

The driver ics such as 74141 use a 5 volt supply and have
4 binary inputs.  They have 10 single outputs which connect
directly to the tube cathodes.  The cathodes are the digits.
Meanwhile, the tube ANODE goes to the series resistor (15k
for starters), and the other side of that resistor goes to
the +170 VDC power supply terminal.

The 5 volt DC power supply that powers the driver ic
is on a COMMON negative ground with the 170 volt supply.

What happens is that when the proper binary code is
applied the the 1-2-4-8 inputs on the 74141 ic, the
appropriate 1-of-10 output gets switched to the common
ground, turning on the nixie digit.  It will drop to
within a few volts of ground.

Those 10 outputs on the driver ic are capable of
handling about 55 volts and that is enough to make them
safe to use on nixie cathodes.

Be extra careful never to short any of the 5 volt pins
to any of those ten pins that are connected to the nixie
cathodes.  Any short, however brief, will INSTANTLY destroy
this ic.  Beware also the 5 volt power input pins on this
old ic are pins 5 and 12!  Be careful!  

That is the quick general explanation.  More detailed
in depth reading can be done by finding the exact tube data
sheets and by looking over the 74141 data sheet.

There is also 7441, which was an earlier version.
And also the rare 74142, which has a decade counter built in.

There are Russian equivalents of the 74141 available on
ebay.

Hope this helps some.

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: alleyc...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: [neonixie-l] Why driver ICs?
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 19:44:37 -0800 (PST)

Another nixie newbie here hoping y'all will show compassion for my 
ignorance.

I have been an amateur electronics hobbyist since childhood, mostly
analog 
(primarily audio  RF-related). I've started playing with some
ZM1000s, and 
built a simple tester to plug them in  cycle manually through all
the 
digits (image at www.lutins.org/projects/nixie1.gif). This is a
simple 
device, with the positive side of a 170V power supply connected to
the 
anode and the negative side switched between digit cathodes. I am not
using 
a driver IC, and here is my primary question: What is the main
purpose of a 
driver IC?

If i understand the specifications properly, 170V is an ignition
voltage, 
after which a 125V maintaining voltage can be used. Does a driver
IC have 
anything to do with this, or is this another issue entirely? And will
i 
shorten the life of my nixie by supplying it continuously with 170V?

Thanks in advance for helping me merge onto the nixie highway!

-allen

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie 74141 help

[chuck richards]

Yes, John is right about that. 
TTL inputs tend to float high.

You can see that if you take a 74141 and power it
up and look at each of the four inputs using a
high impedance DVM.   They will all be at some voltage
just over the threshold that makes them high.

That floating high business is really not to be used
in a circuit, but for quick tests, leaving a TTL input open
usually results in it being interpreted as being high.

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: j...@tayloredge.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Newbie 74141 help
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:00:47 -0700 (PDT)



 In case you are wondering why this is so, it's because TTL logic
is 
 based on NPN transistors. They are good at pulling a signal down
to 0V, 
 but not good at pulling a signal up to 5V. So a resistor does the 
 pulling up, and the transistor does the pulling down. 


You can see this in the
schematicshttp://www.tayloredge.com/reference/Electronics/Logic/74xx
00.pdf:  
The inputs are emitter followers that are pulled up to VCC-Vbe and
likewise 
the outputs are also emitter followers that can't go above VCC-Vbe
at best 
and 2 Vbe for the original TTL.

Bottom line: Unconnected inputs are logic-1.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?

[chuck richards]

A couple of years ago just for fun I started from
scratch and designed a nixie clock circuit from the
ground up (pun intended), that uses (6) 74HC160 counters.

The ic count is 17 packages for a plain 24-hour only clock.
The package count goes to 18 for a 12/24 hour selectable version.

It sets using thumbwheel switches and a push button.

I know that to all of you guys out there who use processors
that this seems elementary.  However, even so, I am still
rather pleased with the '160 clock.

Chuck Richards





 Original Message 
From: threeneur...@yahoo.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  [neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie
Clock?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 19:01:51 -0700 (PDT)



 First of all, I have no experience in circuit design, electronics,
or 
 programming.  ...
 Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 Sean


I'm with Adam. If this is your first time out of the gate, go for
the 
discrete  logic design. That is using 7400 series TTL, or 4000
series CMOS 
logic parts. Or the mix of the two. If you run them at 5V, then you
can mix 
them together. Get copies of the TTL and CMOS Cookbooks, as
mentioned 
before. They're great starter books. Here's an example of a 4000
CMOS logic 
clock:

http://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/nixie6c_sch.gif

Its from a kit I sell, but its on the web, so use it, if you want.
It does 
mix TTL and CMOS. Most is CMOS, but the nixie drivers are TTL
(Russian 
equivalent of 74141s). It includes a dekatron pendulum circuit, but
I'd 
omit that, unless you want the extra complication. That part of the
circuit 
includes the charge pump, U11 (4013) and the circuitry right of
U11.

I'd hold off on the Arduino, for now. It involves learning
programming. 
You've got enough on your plate, for this pass. Maybe on your 2nd
project, 
you may want to try a microcontroller. Then, an Arduino, is a great
way to 
break into it. But, for now, one step at a time. I'd even avoid
making your 
own HV switching supply, for now. Make that another project, for
another 
day.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?

[chuck richards]

On the 12/24 selectable version of the '160 clock,
when it is in 12-hour mode, the thumbwheels must be
left preset for 0100.

Then, as David said, it loads that after 12:59:59

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Design my own Nixie Clock?
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:22:37 -0700

On 8/15/2012 11:18 AM, John Rehwinkel wrote:
 A couple of years ago just for fun I started from
 scratch and designed a nixie clock circuit from the
 ground up (pun intended), that uses (6) 74HC160 counters.

 How do you do the divide-by-6 digits?  Just use gates to reset the
counters
 when they get to 6?  I'm more used to using 7492 counters for that
task, so
 I'm curious.

 - John


Synchronous counters will accept a parallel data input and/or a
reset signal. 
The tricky part is going from 12 to 01. You have to issue a load
command with 
0001 on the data bus to set it to 1.

The '160 has an asynchronous reset, while the '162 has a synchronous
reset. So 
the logic would be slightly different for those two parts.

The advantage of synchronous counters is that you don't get
glitches, and if you 
do, they don't matter since the signals are only sampled on the
rising edge of 
the clock.

It's not so important for a time-of-day clock, but designing
circuits to work at 
a hundred MHz is a lot easier with synchronous logic.

-- 
David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dallas/Maxim TCXO

[chuck richards]

Hmmm.  Interesting!  Thanks.  This is the reason I
always like to consult you guys.  Someone always has
a unique method or a different view.

Right now, on the first-off quickie prototype of this
new pulse-remover, it's a 3-package solution.

It uses a 4040 ripple counter, a 4073 triple 3-input
AND gate, and one half of a 4013 D flip-flop.

My first impression is that 3 packages is hard to beat.
But I will kick around the idea of removing one pulse
out of every 1008246 pulses.

I did come up with a 6-package solution that's slightly
more complex.  Have not built it yet, but it has the
addition of (2) hexadecimal rotary switches to use to
set in the number of pulses to remove every hour.
That number can be anywhere from 0 to 255 base ten. (FF hex)
That configuration can slow a clock down by about 68 seconds
per year max.   That would pretty well cover the worst of
the Maxim TCXOs.   To go any more than that, a ninth bit
would need to be decoded, and then up goes the package count.

Or, the rotary switches could be assigned to the next higher
order bits starting at N=2 instead of N=1, and then
you'd have to play games figuring out how to set them!

Not to mention that the resolution would then end
up being to the nearest 2 pulses, not to the nearest
single pulse.   So, the 8-bit decoder using the switches
is the next thing I will build and start testing.

The first simple one is hardwired to decode 117 and to remove
that many pulses.  It's very simple, but changing that
integer is a pain.   Moving a few wires around is fine
on a solderless board and during an experiment, but not
on a final solution.



 Original Message 
From: jreh...@mac.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Dallas/Maxim TCXO
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 00:13:39 -0400

 That number turns out to be 117 pulses to somehow remove
 every hour.

You could attack it a different way, and skip one pulse after every
1008246.
Shouldn't be hard to implement, as that's just 2 * 3 * 197 * 853. 
You could
instead skip one out of 1008247, but that happens to be a prime
number.

- John

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[neonixie-l] Dallas/Maxim TCXO

[chuck richards]

As some of you know who have read this thread before,
I have used these Dallas/Maxim DS32KHZN/DIP TCXOs exclusively
in my clock experiments since they became available back
around year 2000 or so.

They have always proven to be very stable, but not always
tuned to the exactly correct frequency.  A typical prototype
clock I have running with one now gains about 1.2 seconds
every 14 days.

Well, I finally decided to do something about that.
I calculated how many extra pulses it is making over
those 14 days, and divided that number by 14 and then again
by 24 to arrive at the extra pulses per hour.

That number turns out to be 117 pulses to somehow remove
every hour.
I made a pulse remover.  It's a very simple affair that
uses a 4040 ripple counter, a 4073 triple 3-input AND gate
package, and 1/2 of a 4013 D flip-flop.

It is set up to decode count 117 (75 hex) (0111 0101 binary).
Upon decoding that count, the flip-flop is reset.
When the flip-flop is reset, it holds the 4040 counter
at reset as well.
During the time the counter is running, the outgoing
pulses are gated off to the clock's counters via an AND gate.

It works because I tested it triggering the flip-flop
every second instead of every hour.  During that test
the clock lost exactly one second in 4 minutes, 40 seconds
just as the numbers say it should, if the pulse remover
is working.   So after having tested it this way I moved
the lead over to the input to the hours counters, so that
the pulse remover gets to run once per hour.

It's still too early to know whether or not this pulse
remover will only be triggered when it's supposed to be
and at no other time due to noise.  But if it can be made 
to operate correctly, I think it can hold the possiblility of
drastically (as in orders of magnitude) improving
the accuracy of this TCXO.

A slightly more complex version can be made that has
the integer that represents the number of pulses to
be removed to be set in on two tiny hexadecimal rotary
dip switches.   That would provide a resolution of one
pulse, and be selectable from 0 to 255 pulses removed
per hour.   It appears that finally there is an accurate
and fairly simple way to adjust the speed of these clocks.

The first version of this circuit uses only 3 dip
packages.

If all works well, this can be retrofitted into all of my
clocks by making a little add-on board and installing it.

This thing will even provide a way to compensate for
crystal aging.

Time will tell.Just thought I'd run this past all
of you.  I am sure most of you already have heard of such
pulse removing ideas before.   If a slow one was ever 
encountered, a pulse stuffer could also be made to
correct that.

Chuck


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[neonixie-l] Re: Question on SN74142s

[chuck richards]

Ahh, I agree with David on this one.
Lucky.  I have been working with this stuff since 
around 1990, and during that time have only ever found
a small bunch of (10) of those 74142 ics.  They are
extremely rare, made of pure unobtainium!

They are the equivalent of a decade counter connected to
a 74141 and all in one 16-pin DIP package.

TTL cookbook page 93 describes it.

Some notes from last time I had mine fired up:

Counter clear pin 1 is very sensitive to noise.
If using a 2.2k pullup resistor, a .01 uf or a .1 uF
to gnd. keeps the full count going.  Without the cap,
the count goes 0 1 2 3 4 5 0

Carry out pin 14 stays high for all counts except 8 and 9.
Carry is low for counts 8 and 9, and it returns high when
count 0 is reached.

74142 belongs in a glass case, temperature and humidity
controlled, low light, nitrogen atmosphere.

Chuck





 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Question on SN74142s
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:15:54 -0800

They're also covered in the TTL Cookbook (That's where I found out
about
them)... Where did you find them?!?

-Adam

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM, David Forbes
dfor...@dakotacom.net wrote:

 On 2/23/12 7:11 PM, Dylan Distasio wrote:

 Hi all-

 I recently picked up 2 SN74142 ICs.  I'm about to show my
ignorance
 again, but can someone with some patience walk me through how I
would
 use these in a nixie clock.  I'm familiar with the 74141s but
have to
 admit after reading the SN74142 datasheet I am not entirely sure
how
 this one works.  I am still a beginner at digital logic, and
would
 appreciate any help with utlizing a combo of a decimal counter /
4-bit
 latch /decimal decoder/ nixie driver in one IC.
 Datasheet http://diogenes.iwt.uni-**bremen.de/vt/laser/nixie/**

SN74142.pdfhttp://diogenes.iwt.uni-bremen.de/vt/laser/nixie/SN74142.
pdf
 Best,
 Dylan


 Dylan,

 Lucky man! I've never seen one of those chips in person.

 I have used the old CMOS more-or-less equivalent, the CD4033
(which drives
 7-segment LEDs) to make a clock. You will need to wire the latch
in
 transparent mode, as the latch function is not needed for a clock.

 RCA published an app note in their 1974 data book that I built in
1976. It
 worked. I'll see if my scanner will cooperate enough to scan the
app note.

 --
 David Forbes, Tucson AZ


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[neonixie-l] 4500 via 74142

[chuck richards]

This thread reminded me about the surplus store in
Orlando, FL called Skycraft.   Every time I am nearby
(every year or so), I always stop in there to look around.

They have two aisles full of cabinets that have the little
plastic drawers.  There are different groups of those cabinets
for the various logic families and many sorts of ics.

I always pull open the 7441, 74141, and 74142 drawers to
have a look, and they are always full of the same dust
they have always had in them since I started looking.
But one never knows if a few ics may show up sometime.

This last visit though, I thought to pull open the
4500 drawer, and to my surprise, there they were!!
So I bought a few of them.  Motorola MC14500B is the official
name for it.  It is a 16-pin DIP package that is a one-bit
processor that has 16 instructions.  It can run at a clock
frequency of anything from DC to 1 mHz.  Also known
as MC14500B Industrial Controller.

I find that all fascinating.  And so I have also found a
copy of a 100+ page book printed by Motorola which is a
complete manual for using and testing this ic.

I plan on doing a series of experiments with it.

So, as long as the topic of rare old and hard-to-find ics
came up with the mention of 74142, I thought I'd mention
the 4500.   Anyone else out there ever work with the 4500?

Chuck


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[neonixie-l] Dallas/Maxim TCXO question

[chuck richards]

I have a few questions about the Dallas/Maxim
32KHZN/DIP TCXO ics:

Has anyone out there in nixieland had much long-term 
experience with these?

The reason I ask is because I've been using them now for
about ten years and have noticed a few things about them.

One thing I seem to notice is that they are not as accurate 
now as they were some years ago.  I have one in a clock, and when new
for the first few years it kept extremely accurate time.
I kept well within 10 seconds per year then.
More like +5 seconds in one year according to my old notes
from actual running tests.

It runs now about 20 to 30 seconds fast per year.
Might that be due to crystal aging?

And also, along the years I have gotten many batches of more
free samples of these from Maxim.  Some seem to be much
more accurate than others.  I just was testing one of them
and it gains about one second in two days!

I also ran across power rail noise affecting the accuracy
of one of them in a clock I made.  That problem was partially
solved by putting a .1 uF ceramic disc cap. across the
power input pins to it, and then putting 100 ohms in the
+5 volt feed to it.

In general, these do not seem as rock stable and accurate
now as they once did.

Any ideas what might be going on?  Anyone else been using them?

Thanks, 

Chuck














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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Class action lawsuit...

[chuck richards]

Yeah, same here.   I too used to play with mercury when I
was a kid.

Oh sure, yes, it would be harmful if you poured it out
into a big pan and heated it on the stove and stuck your
head in the pan to inhale the vapor.

But, just normal everyday handling?   I think people are
freaking out about nothing.   Such is the case though about
lots of things now, so it's no real big surprise.

Chuck











 Original Message 
From: nixci...@jsdesign.co.uk
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Class action lawsuit...
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 07:42:06 +

On 9 Feb 2012, at 05:04, Terry Kennedy wrote:

 When I was a kid in elementary school, each year the science  
 teacher would pull out the jar of mercury and pour it into a  
 shallow pan, and we'd all run our fingers through it and marvel at
 
 how something so heavy could be a liquid.

In the UK, in the days of pounds shillings and pence, LSD, a
ha'penny  
was very much the same size as a shilling.  So lots of schoolboys  
would break open a thermometer and coat the ha'penny with the
mercury  
to make it silver and pass it off as a shilling - 24 times the
value.  
Smearing the mercury on the coin with a finger, of course. I think  
that's what they call liquid assets.

John S

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[neonixie-l] RE: hello from new guy

[chuck richards]

Hello Brian and welcome to the group!   

Although I see that your question about the neon lamps
as a colon has already been answered, I thought I'd offer
my thoughts too.

When I built my first clock I had the same idea about using
the little NE-2 neon lamps.  Then, after I had a test fixture
made up to hold the (6) tubes, the desire for the colon
separator just kind of went away.

I ended up with the readout on that first clock having
slightly taller digits for Hours and Minutes (.8 inches tall),
and the seconds are .6 inches tall.

There is no colon separator and I think it looks pretty
good that way.   It also has no leading-zero suppression
so for instance it will display times such as 0156 47.

I can send you a picture of it off list.

Chuck




 Original Message 
From: bedmonso...@gmail.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] hello from new guy
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 14:52:08 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,
I've been lurking here for the past few days reading up on some
extremely valuable info from some extremely talented people.  Just
thought I'd pop my head out and say hi :-)

Though I do have one question.  I'm in the process of building my
first nixie clock from scratch ( no kit ).  I'm using four IN-12b
Russian tubes.  Just got my K1551D1's in today ( excited! =D ).
Anyway, I'd like to use two neon lamps to display the colon between
hours and minutes; do any of you have any suggestions for a
lamp/tube
that runs on a similar voltage as the nixies?

Thanks!

-Brian E.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Ray W.

[chuck richards]

This subject pops up again and again over the years.
I've observed it from afar, and I have this to say about it:

I think that there are many excuses floating around for
what this fellow did, and last I heard, still continues to do.

It's one thing to run into hard luck.

It's quite another thing though, to continue to take money
from people.   Then I read more excuses for what he does.

Making excuses for the actions of a common thief?
Granted, maybe at one time in the distant past it started
out as an honest endeavor.   But at the present time and
for many years now it has been flat out thievery.

That is what it looks like to me.

Chuck Richards




 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Ray W.
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 12:37:25 -0700

On 12/24/11 6:55 AM, Tidak Ada wrote:
 The source could easyly be found under Indonesian public officers.
...
 Making somebody loosing his face is one of the worsest rudenesses
you can do
 to somebody !!

 eric


Thank you for this explanation. It is easy to forget that there are 
large cultural differences between one's own country and those on
the 
other side of the world.

I too had the sense that Ray was a good man who ran into hard luck
and 
didn't have the financial cushion in place to deal with the problem.

I consider myself lucky that I've only ever had a few weeks of
moderate 
poverty in my long life.

I also have taken Ray's missteps to heart - I make sure that I have
all 
the parts on hand before accepting people's money for a product.

-- 
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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[neonixie-l] Re: Current preferred VFD drivers

[chuck richards]

If I was going to run numitrons, 
I'd just use a 7447 ic to drive them.

Chuck


 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Current preferred VFD drivers
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:14:39 -0800

I like the MAX6921. It is not available in DIP, but it is available
in
PLCC. Mouser carries DIP sockets for PLCC for about a dollar each.
Also,
sparkfun carries neat little DIP break-out boards for SOIC  SSOP.
Those
run about $3 each.

-Adam


On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:43 PM, William Lee interz...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi all-

 Another beginner question on building numitron clocks...Is there a
DIP
 driver IC that people would recommend these days that is
relatively
 inexpensive and still in production?  I have seen the Supertex
HV5812
 mentioned in my travels, but the Allegro and other obsolete items
appear
 relatively expensive or hard to find and very expensive depending
on the
 chip.  I wanted to get input on how the HV5812 works for people,
and if
 anyone is using an alternative easy to source IC.

 So far I have breadboarded 1 IV-9, and I have some IV-11s and
IV-17s on
 order so I am looking for some input from more experienced
builders on
 component recommendations for clocks.

 Best,
 Dylan



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Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

It's a clock that I designed from scratch.
Basically, it was an exercise in using (6) 74LS160
synchronous counters.  It gets the HHMM set via a bank
of (4) thumbwheel switches, and the SS gets zeroed out
and clock stopped via another spring-return toggle switch.

It worked so well that I later decided to make it into a
low current version in order to be as easy on the backup
battery as possible.  So, I used all HC and HCT parts.

I used 7441 drivers because that is what I have around here.
I am not aware that any low-current versions of those
drivers were ever manufactured.

Indeed, *is* there any modern low-current bcd-to-decimal
high voltage ic that provides a one-package 16 pin DIP
solution to this requirement?   Is there?  Please let me
know if there is.

I am now making up another similar clock, but using 8422 tubes
instead of 6844A kind.   Just thought if I could power down
the 7441/74141 ics when running on backup battery, that would
save the bulk of about 60 mA.

What low current drivers would you suggest?

Thanks again for all of your help!
You guys are a great bunch!  -Chuck













 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141
questions
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:03:23 -0800

Is this a clock that was already built and you have been modifying
for 
lower current use? or is this a clock that you designed from the 
ground-up for low current? If it is the latter, I can't help
wondering 
why there are 74141's in there at _all_. :)

-Adam

On 11/21/2011 10:03 AM, chuck richards wrote:
 In an effort to build a low-current nixie clock,
 I tried using all 74HC parts.  That works great,
 but there are still the (6) 7441, or 74141 TTL drivers.

 How about this idea?   When the clock is running on
 the backup battery with no line power, what if 5 volts
 Vcc were to be removed from the 7441/74141 drivers?

 That way, the clock itself would keep time, and the current
 draw on the battery would be kept as low as possible since
 only the CMOS ics would be running.

 Question:   If the ground is kept on the 7441/74141 ics
 and the Vcc lead is disconnected, will that cause any
 problems for the 74HC160 counters that have their bcd outputs
 feeding the 7441/74141 bcd inputs?

 In other words, I am concerned about the possibility of
 the 7441/74141 having some path that would try to
 draw excessive current from the inputs when Vcc is
 disconnected.

 Is this a good idea to try, or is it a recipe for
 trashing some HC160 counters?

 Thanks.  Chuck







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Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

It's a clock that I designed from scratch.
Basically, it was an exercise in using (6) 74LS160
synchronous counters.  It gets the HHMM set via a bank
of (4) thumbwheel switches, and the SS gets zeroed out
and clock stopped via another spring-return toggle switch.

It worked so well that I later decided to make it into a
low current version in order to be as easy on the backup
battery as possible.  So, I used all HC and HCT parts.

I used 7441 drivers because that is what I have around here.
I am not aware that any low-current versions of those
drivers were ever manufactured.

Indeed, *is* there any modern low-current bcd-to-decimal
high voltage ic that provides a one-package 16 pin DIP
solution to this requirement?   Is there?  Please let me
know if there is.

I am now making up another similar clock, but using 8422 tubes
instead of 6844A kind.   Just thought if I could power down
the 7441/74141 ics when running on backup battery, that would
save the bulk of about 60 mA.

What low current drivers would you suggest?

Thanks again for all of your help!
You guys are a great bunch!  -Chuck













 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141
questions
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:03:23 -0800

Is this a clock that was already built and you have been modifying
for 
lower current use? or is this a clock that you designed from the 
ground-up for low current? If it is the latter, I can't help
wondering 
why there are 74141's in there at _all_. :)

-Adam

On 11/21/2011 10:03 AM, chuck richards wrote:
 In an effort to build a low-current nixie clock,
 I tried using all 74HC parts.  That works great,
 but there are still the (6) 7441, or 74141 TTL drivers.

 How about this idea?   When the clock is running on
 the backup battery with no line power, what if 5 volts
 Vcc were to be removed from the 7441/74141 drivers?

 That way, the clock itself would keep time, and the current
 draw on the battery would be kept as low as possible since
 only the CMOS ics would be running.

 Question:   If the ground is kept on the 7441/74141 ics
 and the Vcc lead is disconnected, will that cause any
 problems for the 74HC160 counters that have their bcd outputs
 feeding the 7441/74141 bcd inputs?

 In other words, I am concerned about the possibility of
 the 7441/74141 having some path that would try to
 draw excessive current from the inputs when Vcc is
 disconnected.

 Is this a good idea to try, or is it a recipe for
 trashing some HC160 counters?

 Thanks.  Chuck







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Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

Ahh, ok then...it appears that the answer to my previous
question is that there is *not* any modern low current
single-package 16-pin DIP equivalent to the old 7441 or 74141
or the russian versions of these.

That being the case, even though the old 7441/74141 draw
a bit of current, they remain the simplest, one-package
solution.

Am I wrong here?  Am I missing something?

Chuck









 Original Message 
From: a...@jacobs.us
To: chuc...@all2easy.net
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:39:07 -0800

Here's a link to a reply from David Forbes on this subject:
http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l/msg/6195ec3c9b90f2ee

-Adam

On 11/23/2011 12:33 PM, Adam Jacobs wrote:
 This is a question that gets asked  answered on this list 
 occasionally. I think that the simplest/easiest answer is to use
an 
 array of high voltage drivers on a BCD-Decimal IC. Turns into a
ton 
 of transistors if you are not multiplexing, though. Mike Moorrees
has 
 some much more elegant and interesting ideas in old posts on this 
 subject. Also, Supertex has a whole line of modern HV driver
chips, 
 some members of the list have spent time looking into their
suitability.
 One nice thing to remember is that the extinguishing voltage on a 
 nixie is usually less than 50v (hence the zeners in the 74141).
Once 
 the nixie is sunk by ~50v, the nixie turns off - so the driver IC 
 doesn't have to actually since 180v.

 -Adam

 On 11/23/2011 12:27 PM, chuck richards wrote:
 It's a clock that I designed from scratch.
 Basically, it was an exercise in using (6) 74LS160
 synchronous counters.  It gets the HHMM set via a bank
 of (4) thumbwheel switches, and the SS gets zeroed out
 and clock stopped via another spring-return toggle switch.

 It worked so well that I later decided to make it into a
 low current version in order to be as easy on the backup
 battery as possible.  So, I used all HC and HCT parts.

 I used 7441 drivers because that is what I have around here.
 I am not aware that any low-current versions of those
 drivers were ever manufactured.

 Indeed, *is* there any modern low-current bcd-to-decimal
 high voltage ic that provides a one-package 16 pin DIP
 solution to this requirement?   Is there?  Please let me
 know if there is.

 I am now making up another similar clock, but using 8422 tubes
 instead of 6844A kind.   Just thought if I could power down
 the 7441/74141 ics when running on backup battery, that would
 save the bulk of about 60 mA.

 What low current drivers would you suggest?

 Thanks again for all of your help!
 You guys are a great bunch!  -Chuck












  Original Message 
 From: a...@jacobs.us
 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
 Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441,
74141
 questions
 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:03:23 -0800

 Is this a clock that was already built and you have been
modifying
 for
 lower current use? or is this a clock that you designed from
the
 ground-up for low current? If it is the latter, I can't help
 wondering
 why there are 74141's in there at _all_. :)

 -Adam

 On 11/21/2011 10:03 AM, chuck richards wrote:
 In an effort to build a low-current nixie clock,
 I tried using all 74HC parts.  That works great,
 but there are still the (6) 7441, or 74141 TTL drivers.

 How about this idea?   When the clock is running on
 the backup battery with no line power, what if 5 volts
 Vcc were to be removed from the 7441/74141 drivers?

 That way, the clock itself would keep time, and the current
 draw on the battery would be kept as low as possible since
 only the CMOS ics would be running.

 Question:   If the ground is kept on the 7441/74141 ics
 and the Vcc lead is disconnected, will that cause any
 problems for the 74HC160 counters that have their bcd outputs
 feeding the 7441/74141 bcd inputs?

 In other words, I am concerned about the possibility of
 the 7441/74141 having some path that would try to
 draw excessive current from the inputs when Vcc is
 disconnected.

 Is this a good idea to try, or is it a recipe for
 trashing some HC160 counters?

 Thanks.  Chuck







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[neonixie-l] Re: Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

Thank you all for those suggestions and the experiment to
observe what actually happens when Vcc is disconnected
from a 7441/74141 driver ic.  I will be trying all of those
very soon here.

Here is another curious aside that goes along with the
7441 questions.   The 7441 does not blank hex codes A through F,
as the 74141 does.

I got to experimenting with an old 7441 in this mode.
I had one connected to a binary counter that was counting
single seconds.  The 7441 then was operating the nixie tube
normally for digits 0 through 9, and then it also was displaying
the codes A through F.

Here's what my old 7441s do for those codes:

1010  lights 2 and 8
1011  lights 3 and 9
1100  lights 4 and 8
1101  lights 5 and 9
1110  lights 6 and 8
  lights 7 and 9

It works great except that it appears to maybe exceed the
total package dissipation of the chip, because after a while,
one digit inevitably sticks on after running in this mode.

So, even though the chip is built this way that it 
turns on two outputs simultaneously for codes greater than 9,
it appears that it eventually destroys the ic.

My guess is that having two outputs on at the same time
is a bit more than the ic can handle.

Anyone else know anything about this, or have any insight
or opinions about it?

Thanks, Chuck





 Original Message 
From: threeneur...@yahoo.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  [neonixie-l] Re: Yet more 7441, 74141
questions
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:58:38 -0800 (PST)

 the 7441/74141 having some path that would try to
 draw excessive current from the inputs when Vcc is
 disconnected.

 Is this a good idea to try, or is it a recipe for
 trashing some HC160 counters?

Its possible. The only way to really find out, is to run an
experiment. Get one of your 74141s, and tie the gnd, and leave Vcc
open. Connect a 470 ohm resistors to each input. Connect the other
side of those resistors to its own DIP switch. A 4 switch DIP switch
is needed. Tie the other side of the DIP switches to +5V. Gnd the
negative side of your 5V source. Try all 16 input combinations, and
see if there's a voltage drop across any of those resistors.

The inputs of old TTL was usually the emitter of an NPN transistor,
so
it would be reverse biased if you tried your scheme. Ideally, it
shouldn't draw any current. But it may, if (1) 5V exceeds its
reverse
breakdown rating; doubtful, or (2) there is some protection circuit,
or phantom substrate structure. In old TTL, there usually wasn't any
protection circuits, but a phantom diode is possible. Only way to
find
out, is by experiment.

If the input impedance is still high with no power, then your good
to
go. However, if excess current is drawn. Excessive, being more than
the HC160s are rated for, or higher than you want to supply,
whichever
is less, then you got work to do. A possible solution (if needed) is
to insert a schottky diode in series in each input path. Anodes
toward
the counter, cathodes towards the 74141s. put 10K pull-up resistors
on
each 74141 input. Tie the power side of those pull-ups to the VCC
pin
of its nearest 74141. This is a pseudo-open-collector arrangement.
Real TTL tended to have a soft pull-up. The 10K pull-ups will tend
to
bring up into a safe Logic-1, when the circuit is powered. The
diodes
will only allow the counters to sink the inputs to 0. When the
counters output a 1, the diode is reversed, and off. The pull-up
will
bring it to a logic 1. I suggest small signal schottky diodes,
because
they have smaller forward voltage drops than your jelly-bean 1N914.
A
logic 0 must be 0.8V or less. This may be iffy if a common silicon
diode is used. A BAT46 will have a much lower forward drop. Probably
~0.3V in this use.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

Thank you all for those suggestions and the experiment to
observe what actually happens when Vcc is disconnected
from a 7441/74141 driver ic.  I will be trying all of those
very soon here.

Here is another curious aside that goes along with the
7441 questions.   The 7441 does not blank hex codes A through F,
as the 74141 does.

I got to experimenting with an old 7441 in this mode.
I had one connected to a binary counter that was counting
single seconds.  The 7441 then was operating the nixie tube
normally for digits 0 through 9, and then it also was displaying
the codes A through F.

Here's what my old 7441s do for those codes:

1010  lights 2 and 8
1011  lights 3 and 9
1100  lights 4 and 8
1101  lights 5 and 9
1110  lights 6 and 8
  lights 7 and 9

It works great except that it appears to maybe exceed the
total package dissipation of the chip, because after a while,
one digit inevitably sticks on after running in this mode.

So, even though the chip is built this way that it 
turns on two outputs simultaneously for codes greater than 9,
it appears that it eventually destroys the ic.

My guess is that having two outputs on at the same time
is a bit more than the ic can handle.

Anyone else know anything about this, or have any insight
or opinions about it?

Thanks, Chuck





 Original Message 
From: threeneur...@yahoo.com
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [POSSIBLE SPAM]  [neonixie-l] Re: Yet more 7441, 74141
questions
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:58:38 -0800 (PST)

 the 7441/74141 having some path that would try to
 draw excessive current from the inputs when Vcc is
 disconnected.

 Is this a good idea to try, or is it a recipe for
 trashing some HC160 counters?

Its possible. The only way to really find out, is to run an
experiment. Get one of your 74141s, and tie the gnd, and leave Vcc
open. Connect a 470 ohm resistors to each input. Connect the other
side of those resistors to its own DIP switch. A 4 switch DIP switch
is needed. Tie the other side of the DIP switches to +5V. Gnd the
negative side of your 5V source. Try all 16 input combinations, and
see if there's a voltage drop across any of those resistors.

The inputs of old TTL was usually the emitter of an NPN transistor,
so
it would be reverse biased if you tried your scheme. Ideally, it
shouldn't draw any current. But it may, if (1) 5V exceeds its
reverse
breakdown rating; doubtful, or (2) there is some protection circuit,
or phantom substrate structure. In old TTL, there usually wasn't any
protection circuits, but a phantom diode is possible. Only way to
find
out, is by experiment.

If the input impedance is still high with no power, then your good
to
go. However, if excess current is drawn. Excessive, being more than
the HC160s are rated for, or higher than you want to supply,
whichever
is less, then you got work to do. A possible solution (if needed) is
to insert a schottky diode in series in each input path. Anodes
toward
the counter, cathodes towards the 74141s. put 10K pull-up resistors
on
each 74141 input. Tie the power side of those pull-ups to the VCC
pin
of its nearest 74141. This is a pseudo-open-collector arrangement.
Real TTL tended to have a soft pull-up. The 10K pull-ups will tend
to
bring up into a safe Logic-1, when the circuit is powered. The
diodes
will only allow the counters to sink the inputs to 0. When the
counters output a 1, the diode is reversed, and off. The pull-up
will
bring it to a logic 1. I suggest small signal schottky diodes,
because
they have smaller forward voltage drops than your jelly-bean 1N914.
A
logic 0 must be 0.8V or less. This may be iffy if a common silicon
diode is used. A BAT46 will have a much lower forward drop. Probably
~0.3V in this use.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions

[chuck richards]

Haha!  There you go again David, being all practical
and realistic about things...

I tend to forget that this all involves stone-age
long obsolete data readout technology.  :)

Chuck








 Original Message 
From: dfor...@dakotacom.net
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Yet more 7441, 74141 questions
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:24:49 -0700

On 11/23/2011 2:16 PM, chuck richards wrote:
 Ahh, ok then...it appears that the answer to my previous
 question is that there is *not* any modern low current
 single-package 16-pin DIP equivalent to the old 7441 or 74141
 or the russian versions of these.

 That being the case, even though the old 7441/74141 draw
 a bit of current, they remain the simplest, one-package
 solution.

 Am I wrong here?  Am I missing something?

 Chuck

Chuck,

You are correct. Nixie tubes became obsolete in 1973, so there was
no reason for 
the chip makers to develop a CMOS version of the 74141 driver chip
for them.

-- 
David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

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