date:20020926


oh damn, I knew I'd screw it up...  I have a user group meeting today,
this list will overflow my mailbox if I don't check it several times a
day, rather than unsubscribe (which gives Jared heart attacks when he
thinks I'm leaving for good) I thought I'd try this.

See what happens when I try to do things and it's past my bedtime?

Okay, let's try this again, PROPERLY this time

I won't miss Mladen's poetry -- I told him he had to come to a user
group meeting to read it to us


--- Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ooops!!! 
 
 Got tired of us, eh! 
 
 Now, you're sure going to miss Mladen's poetry !! ;)
 
 - Kirti
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:43 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 NOMAIL ORACLE-L
 
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Re: DBA work load - BDBAFH #1


hm, now this might be good for a presentation when you come out in
December... want to do this as the keynote? EG


--- Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It's backup day today so I'm pissed off.  Being the BDBAFH,
 however, does
  have it's advantages. I reassign null to be the tape device - it's
 so much
  more economical on my time as I don't have to keep getting up to
 change
  tapes every 5 minutes. And it speeds up RMAN too, so it can't be
 all bad
  can it? Of course not.
 
  A user rings ...
 
 The phone rings. It'll be him again, I know. That annoys me. I put on
 a
 gruff voice:
 
 Payroll!
 
 Oh, I'm sorry, I've got the wrong number
 
 Yeah?  Well, what's your name, buddy?  Do you know *WASTED* phone
 calls
 cost money?  DO YOU?  I've got a good mind to subtract your wasted
 time, my
 wasted time, and the cost of this call from your wages!  IN FACT I
 WILL!  By
 the time I've finished with you, you'll owe US money!  WHAT'S YOUR
 NAME -
 AND DON'T LIE, I'VE GOT CALLER ID!!
 
 I hear the phone drop and the sound of running feet - he's obviously
 going
 to try and get an alibi by being at the IT Director's office. I look
 up his
 username and find his department. I ring the department's executive
 assistant.
 
 Hello? she answers.
 
 BDBAFH here.  Listen, when that guy comes running into your office
 in about
 15 seconds, can you give him a message?
 
 I think so... she quavers...
 
 Please tell him, `HE CAN RUN, BUT HE CAN'T HIDE!'
 
 Um. OK.  Like, sure...
 
 And, don't forget now, please?  I wouldn't want everyone to find out
 about
 that table in your account with all of your passwords for in-house
 apps and
 credit card numbers for ecommerce sites in it...
 
 A muffled cry and I hear her scrambling at her keyboard.
 
 Don't bother.  It's been backed up a zillion times; piece of cake to
 restore it.  Just pass the message on like a love?  Over the phone,
 I
 can hear the distant sound of pounding feet growing louder in the
 background...
 
 She sobs her assent and I hang up.  And the worst thing is, I was
 just
 guessing about the table.  I look for it, find it, and bring it up in
 TOAD;
 maybe I can do some shopping online tonight...
 
 The phone rings.  Another user.  Still pissed off, I pick it up...
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:34 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
  That sounds about right! You can get back to your boss
  with a little sleep deprivation tactics. Beep him hourly
  with the progress report and he'll trust you much more
  the next time. You can even beep you bosses boss and tell
  him that your boss told you to beep him hourly with a progress
  report. That should read something like : applied archive
 sequences
  789001 to 789567, 3456 more to go.  That might result in some
  interesting career opportunities. One of these days I have to
  start my very own BDBAFH site.
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Inka Bezdziecka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:14 PM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   Subject: RE: DBA work load
  
  
   It is your own fault. You should have called all interested
   parties with details as soon as that problem was resolved.
   And remember: if by any chance the problem resolution takes
   all night, call hourly with the progress report.
  
   -Original Message-
   Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 1:04 PM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
   Yes, of course.  If, like last night, I needed to dial in
   from home for 2
   hours then I get compensated by coming in early the next day to
 answer
   questions about what happened.
  
  
   -Original Message-
   Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:08 AM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
   Obviously, not all of those 168 hours are equally intense,
 requiring a
   conscious person to be available on-call (you *do* get
   compensated for being
   on-call during off-hours, don't you?).
   --
   Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
   --
   Author: Miller, Jay
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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RE: datafile sizing question


10001Mb?

the uniform extent sizes map to what I'll be using as well. good to
know I'm not way off track

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we
 get
 2001, 10001 Mb etc  
 Solaris 2.8
 LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
  
 John
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 25 September 2002 19:44
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
 We created two datafiles of 16GB+64K all LMT autoallocate ... never
 gave a
 problem. A basic testing concluded that fixed size allocation of 128M
 caused
 unnecessary delays whereas autoallocate was much faster. I don't know
 the
 full details yet, but I'll know soon. 
 
 Of course this is undergoing lot of testing (the whole application,
 no
 problems with datafiles yet), but we will probably settle for about
 4GB+64K.
 This is AIX5L 64 bit running Oracle 9iR2.
 
 Raj 
 __ 
 Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
 Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of
 ESPN Inc.
 
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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RE: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread John . Hallas


Yes, 10Gb datafiles.
I think we have a 35Gb datafile somewhere but I have not looked at that
database myself

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 26 September 2002 12:03
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


10001Mb?

the uniform extent sizes map to what I'll be using as well. good to
know I'm not way off track

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we
 get
 2001, 10001 Mb etc  
 Solaris 2.8
 LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
  
 John
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 25 September 2002 19:44
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
 We created two datafiles of 16GB+64K all LMT autoallocate ... never
 gave a
 problem. A basic testing concluded that fixed size allocation of 128M
 caused
 unnecessary delays whereas autoallocate was much faster. I don't know
 the
 full details yet, but I'll know soon. 
 
 Of course this is undergoing lot of testing (the whole application,
 no
 problems with datafiles yet), but we will probably settle for about
 4GB+64K.
 This is AIX5L 64 bit running Oracle 9iR2.
 
 Raj 
 __ 
 Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
 Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of
 ESPN Inc.
 
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 -- 
 Author: 
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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Thomas,

Don't 
get mad - remember, it's not personal, it's just "the 
bidness".

Remember, sales-dweebs can say anything they want. If your 
sales-dweeb-conversation person rolls-over for this MS sales-dweeb, then it's 
your companies fault.

And 
remember, it's a two-way street. The sales-dweeb can say anything he wants 
to you, but you can call also - including telling him to stick the .NET where 
the sun don't shine.

It's 
like what Dr. Phil says - you can't be taken advatage of unless you let it 
happen. The sales-dweebs push, and you are supposed to push back if it is 
not in your companies best interest.

Hope 
this helps.

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Thomas Jeff 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:13 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: OT: 
  MIcrosoft Blackmail
  This came to our DBA team 
  today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm not a 
  business guy, just a plain old Apps 
  DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it common practice 
  by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches to 
"web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net. Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing certain 
services], etc. Microsoft has told our management that one of their 
criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS customer is 
the potential vendor. Specifically, has the vendor bought in to 
the dot Net strategy. Now we aren't going to make our global 
enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone, but 
it's not something we are going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support investigating 
SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
INVESTIGATING.

RE: Forms 3.0 ; Oracle 8i/9i ; Patch 380665 ; HP-UX 11

2002-09-26 Thread Kurth, Michael J.


I tried for years to find a patch that would allow Forms 3.0 to work with
Oracle8.x.x. I think there is a path for NT, but none for Unix.

Time to bite the bullet and upgrade to Forms 4.5 or higher.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello guys,

I am trying to figure out the mystery of Patch 380665, which allows Forms
3.0 to be used with Oracle 8.1.7

I have a few questions

1. Does this patch exist or is it just a myth?
2. Is this a Database patch or Forms patch?
3. How to get this patch?

I would really appreciate if any of ull have travelled this path of trying
to make Forms 3.0 work with Oracle 8i.

Thanks
Mandar

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Mandar A. Ghosalkar


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RE: fast_start_mttr_target in Oracle 9i

2002-09-26 Thread Jamadagni, Rajendra




We have set it to 300on a 9012 RAC, no bad experiences, at-least 
related to this setting yet.

Raj
__
Rajendra 
Jamadagni 
 MIS, ESPN Inc.
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot 
com
Any opinion expressed here is 
personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. 
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but 
having an opinion is an art!

  -Original Message-From: Nick Wagner 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 
  7:23 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  fast_start_mttr_target in Oracle 9i
  Is anyone using 
  this new init.ora parameter? Does it really seam to help recovery 
  times? Does anyone have any good or bad stories about this? 
  
  
  Thanks!!
  
  
  Nick 
  
  
  

*This e-mail 
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you.*1

Re: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Tim Gorman


Datafile sizing affects the speed of backup and restore, since each datafile
can only be backed up or restored by one process at a time.  As a result, I
try to keep datafiles at uniform sizes of 2-4 Gb max.  How do such large and
variable-sized datafiles impact your backups and restores?  Just curious...

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:28 AM


 Yes, 10Gb datafiles.
 I think we have a 35Gb datafile somewhere but I have not looked at that
 database myself

 John

 -Original Message-
 Sent: 26 September 2002 12:03
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 10001Mb?

 the uniform extent sizes map to what I'll be using as well. good to
 know I'm not way off track

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we
  get
  2001, 10001 Mb etc
  Solaris 2.8
  LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
 
  John
 
  -Original Message-
  Sent: 25 September 2002 19:44
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
  We created two datafiles of 16GB+64K all LMT autoallocate ... never
  gave a
  problem. A basic testing concluded that fixed size allocation of 128M
  caused
  unnecessary delays whereas autoallocate was much faster. I don't know
  the
  full details yet, but I'll know soon.
 
  Of course this is undergoing lot of testing (the whole application,
  no
  problems with datafiles yet), but we will probably settle for about
  4GB+64K.
  This is AIX5L 64 bit running Oracle 9iR2.
 
  Raj
  __
  Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
  Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
  Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of
  ESPN Inc.
 
  QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!
 
  --
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
  --
  Author:
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Yechiel Adar

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



What exactly is your problem?

Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your 
business to??

Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas Jeff 

  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 
  AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm not a 
  business guy, just a plain old Apps 
  DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it common practice 
  by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches to 
"web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net. Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing certain 
services], etc. Microsoft has told our management that one of their 
criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS customer is 
the potential vendor. Specifically, has the vendor bought in to 
the dot Net strategy. Now we aren't going to make our global 
enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone, but 
it's not something we are going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support investigating 
SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
INVESTIGATING.

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Steven Lembark




 Remember, sales-dweebs can say anything they want.  If your
 sales-dweeb-conversation person rolls-over for this MS sales-dweeb, then
 it's your companies fault.
 And remember, it's a two-way street.  The sales-dweeb can say anything he
 wants to you, but you can call also - including telling him to stick the
 .NET where the sun don't shine.
 It's like what Dr. Phil says - you can't be taken advatage of unless you
 let it happen.  The sales-dweebs push, and you are supposed to push back
 if it is not in your companies best interest.
 Hope this helps.

Remember also that M$ is used to being the only person you
can deal with. They are very, very unhappy that now you have
alternatives that run the same products (e.g., Oracle, DB2
on linux) and have a well-known, preferred desktop (e.g., OS/X).
This makes their sales reps exciteable and prone to playing
hardball as they watch their sales bonuses go up in smoke.
The recent spate of high-profile licensing clashes hasn't
helped any, so they are in an even fouler mood.

If you want them to shut up and play nice(r) then I'd strongly
suggest having a few prominent G3's around on desktops and at
least one server (say file + print running Samba) with an RH
or SuSE sitcker on it next to the NT boxes on your rack. See
if that helps them understand your point of view...

--
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Workhorse Computing   Chicago, IL 60647
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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Exactly.

In 
other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye now", 
"no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Re: 
  MIcrosoft Blackmail
  What exactly is your problem?
  
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
  
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
  paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give your 
  business to??
  
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas Jeff 

To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 

Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 
AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm not a 
business guy, just a plain old 
Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it common 
practice by MS? 

  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches 
  to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
  report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
  grand overarching software strategy. 
  There is a second reason why we 
  might be interested specifically in dot Net. Subsidiary XYZ 
  earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing certain 
  services], etc. Microsoft has told our management that one of 
  their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a MS 
  customer is the potential vendor. Specifically, has the vendor 
  bought in to the dot Net strategy. Now we aren't going to make 
  our global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point 
  alone, but it's not something we are going to ignore either.
  Therefore, I support 
  investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
  INVESTIGATING.

RE: How to reproduce a hanging connect attempt

2002-09-26 Thread Bob Metelsky


 For more information see
 
   $ perldoc perlport
 
 Not much more information, mind you, but at least a positive 
 statement that alarm is not implemented on Win32. This 
 document also describes all the other stuff without which I 
 can't believe an operating system can survive commercially...

I see, thanks. I would have never looked there... ;-)

Also fwiw we have the perldocs online as well
http://www.perldoc.com/

Thanks
bob
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RE: Best Practice - Partitioned object, one partition per tablesp

2002-09-26 Thread Paula_Stankus

Title: RE: Best Practice - Partitioned object, one partition per tablespace,





exactly - in the warehouse I am working on we have so much data over so many partitioned ranges (for the benefits of partition elimination) that it didn't make sense to create a separate part. in each tablespace plus at some point there are limits to datafiles - so grouped partitions based on access/modifications expected (for readonly benefits) - etc.

-Original Message-
From: Tim Gorman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Best Practice - Partitioned object, one partition per
tablespace,



Another approach is to partition according to your load strategy, but make
them reside in tablespaces according to how you want to set them to READ
ONLY.


For example, if you load daily, partition daily. But if you want to set the
data into READ ONLY to reduce backup volumes on a quarterly basis, then put
all of those daily partitions into quarterly tablespaces. So, each
tablespace will have roughly 90-91 partitions for each table...


- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:48 AM



 We currently are creating partitions of a given table in individual
 tablespaces (1 partition = one tablespace). To me, this seems like a
 reasonable practice. Anyone have any thoughts about this they would like
the
 share?

 RF

 Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
 Oracle Database Architect
 CSX Midtier Database Administration
 Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


 The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.


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Automation of Migration to Oracle9i

2002-09-26 Thread Kieran Murray


Hi,

I've been charged with coming up with automation scripts which will
migration
customer databases from Oracle 7.3.4 to Oracle 9i (35 databases in all).
As the databases aren't huge I was gonna go with the Export/Import option
(rather than MIG utility),
so I'm in the process of writing batch files and sql scripts to automate
this stage of the process.

I was under the impression that the installation of the 9i software would be
a manual process,
but from the Universal Installer help I see it's possible to run this in
silent mode with response files.

Has anyone ever used this before and how have you got on?  Do you think it
would be possible for
me to come up with scripts to automate this to run on all the client sites
with minimal user intervention (assuming identical file systems)?

It sounds too good to be true.

Cheers,
Kieran Murray
CardBASE Technologies Limited® 
Crofton Road
Dun Laoghaire
Co Dublin   
Ireland
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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Bishop Lewis


If you want them to shut up and play nice(r) then I'd strongly
suggest having a few prominent G3's around on desktops and at
least one server (say file + print running Samba) with an RH
or SuSE sitcker on it next to the NT boxes on your rack. See
if that helps them understand your point of view...

Yes, this is quite an important point. MS's biggest selling point in the
past is that previously you had no choice. You do now.

MS Sales Rep: Mac's are too complex, and Linux is hard to administer

You: Err - no I don't think so - look over there - we currently run with
Linux servers performing mail, file and print server functions - and did you
know that they cost of ownership is competitive to MS even after we consider
specialised Linux skills costs?

Lewis Bishop
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Mobile - 07950 380857
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RE: datafile sizing question


Rachel - In the whitepaper How to Stop Defragmenting and Start Living,
they make a big deal under LMT about selecting specific extent sizes, and
those optimum sizes are different for Oracle 8i and Oracle 8. For Oracle 8i
the sizes are 128k, 4m, 128m. I couldn't follow the complete logic of why
they selected those sizes, but I felt that I should follow the prescription
rather than get creative in my ignorance. Perhaps someone else has an
explanation.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:03 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


10001Mb?

the uniform extent sizes map to what I'll be using as well. good to
know I'm not way off track

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we
 get
 2001, 10001 Mb etc  
 Solaris 2.8
 LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
  
 John
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 25 September 2002 19:44
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
 We created two datafiles of 16GB+64K all LMT autoallocate ... never
 gave a
 problem. A basic testing concluded that fixed size allocation of 128M
 caused
 unnecessary delays whereas autoallocate was much faster. I don't know
 the
 full details yet, but I'll know soon. 
 
 Of course this is undergoing lot of testing (the whole application,
 no
 problems with datafiles yet), but we will probably settle for about
 4GB+64K.
 This is AIX5L 64 bit running Oracle 9iR2.
 
 Raj 
 __ 
 Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc. 
 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com 
 Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of
 ESPN Inc.
 
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! 
 
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RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Glenn Travis


I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a dog-and-pony show on Oracle 9i 
and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any experience or comments on 
this product/technology?  Can you suggest some burning questions I can pose to Oracle 
when we get the demos?  This is a technical overview and we will be seeing conversions 
(Apps and non-Apps environments) as well as failure scenarios.

Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the 
last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, 
and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. "

What 
is better than RD projects? At the end one wins no matter what. 
Knowingmore does not hurt, does it?

inka


-Original 
Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

  Exactly.
  
  In 
  other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye 
  now", "no-more-sales-for-you".
  
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
What exactly is your problem?

Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate 
paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your 
business to??

Yechiel AdarMehish

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Thomas Jeff 
  
  To: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  1:13 AM
  Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail
  
  This came to our DBA team 
  today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm not 
  a business guy, just a plain 
  old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it common 
  practice by MS? 
  
It is important from an 
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various approaches 
to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my recent 
report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach to this 
grand overarching software strategy. 
There is a second reason why we 
might be interested specifically in dot Net. Subsidiary XYZ 
earns $xyz a year for us from 
Microsoft by [performing 
certain services], etc. Microsoft has told our management that 
one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how good of a 
MS customer is the potential vendor. Specifically, has the 
vendor bought in to the dot Net strategy. Now we aren't 
going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based 
upon that point alone, but it's not something we are going to ignore 
either.
Therefore, I support 
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
word INVESTIGATING.

RE: OEM website - cannot login ;-(

2002-09-26 Thread Brian McGraw


Rahul -

What error messages are you getting??

I had similar problems a while back w/ OEM 2.2, but followed the steps
laid out in Oracle Enterprise Manager 101 (Oracle Press), and it worked
like a champ.

Brian

--
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| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |
--

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

list,.. i have tried everything, but stiill i cannot login to em website
!!

i *CAN* use OEM console (the java app) and can login using SYSMAN (or
SYS) 
but... then i do http://myserver:1810/ it prompts with 

realm: emterprise-manager
username: sysman

when i use the same password as when using the java OEM console.. it
does
NOT work !!! 
i';m sooo frustrated... i hve tried changing the password to default
OEM_TEMP (using the method in metalink) 
,startup/shutdown the website.. but still does not work !! 

what am i doing wrong ?

regards




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RE: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread John . Hallas


Tim,
I cannot speak for the 35Gb datafile which is a one-off but for the systems
where we have 
datafiles files  4Gb we invariably use EDM to break a mirror and then
RMAN proxy against that. 
The mirror is then kept off-line until we are ready to do the next backup. 

At that point the mirror is 're-silvered' ('timesliced' is another
expression used) and then the process starts again.
The  archived redo logs  are kept on a seperate volume group and secured via
RMAN.

If a large datafile has to be recovered then that vg is re-silvered (which
is very fast) and then changes from the redo logs applied.
I agree that recovery of a large datafile will take longer if the required
file is older than the copy of the broken disk. I assume that this was
discussed and agreed with  the business beforehand. If we had to recover to
a point in time greater than 1 day ago then I suggest we would be in
significant trouble anyway

John

-Original Message-
Sent: 26 September 2002 14:28
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Datafile sizing affects the speed of backup and restore, since each datafile
can only be backed up or restored by one process at a time.  As a result, I
try to keep datafiles at uniform sizes of 2-4 Gb max.  How do such large and
variable-sized datafiles impact your backups and restores?  Just curious...

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:28 AM


 Yes, 10Gb datafiles.
 I think we have a 35Gb datafile somewhere but I have not looked at that
 database myself

 John

 -Original Message-
 Sent: 26 September 2002 12:03
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 10001Mb?

 the uniform extent sizes map to what I'll be using as well. good to
 know I'm not way off track

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we
  get
  2001, 10001 Mb etc
  Solaris 2.8
  LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
 
  John
 
  -Original Message-
  Sent: 25 September 2002 19:44
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 
  We created two datafiles of 16GB+64K all LMT autoallocate ... never
  gave a
  problem. A basic testing concluded that fixed size allocation of 128M
  caused
  unnecessary delays whereas autoallocate was much faster. I don't know
  the
  full details yet, but I'll know soon.
 
  Of course this is undergoing lot of testing (the whole application,
  no
  problems with datafiles yet), but we will probably settle for about
  4GB+64K.
  This is AIX5L 64 bit running Oracle 9iR2.
 
  Raj
  __
  Rajendra Jamadagni  MIS, ESPN Inc.
  Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com
  Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of
  ESPN Inc.
 
  QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art!
 
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RE: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Hand, Michael T


I also have a just curious question.  Do most interchange the values 1000K
for 1M or 1000M for 1G?  I try to be precise in my usage, but I guess that's
just the AR size of my personality.  OK, I'll go find my pills now. ;)  By
the way, we use a maximum size of 4Gb+8k file size but, I've never has a
reason to doubt the DEC/Compaq 64bit file systems.

Mike

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:03 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we get
2001, 10001 Mb etc  
Solaris 2.8
LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
 
John
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Re:RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread dgoulet


Allow me to add a true experience to the thread.

We had an Oracle Sales Droid who believed he could pull a significant number of
$$ out of us by playing hardball in a similar though not identical manner,
somewhere between 10 and 15 million of them.  Well, we had him  his manager in
for a discussion on the subject.  Both were well aware of some of our current
and future projects that would make use of a database  they knew what that DB
would be, but when they arrived in the conference room a carelessly left
signed purchase req was on the table saying that we wanted to use SQL*Server as
the DB for one of the Internet projects.  It was only there for a couple of
minutes, but...

Lets just say the negotiations went very well.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Steven Lembark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   9/26/2002 5:53 AM



 Remember, sales-dweebs can say anything they want.  If your
 sales-dweeb-conversation person rolls-over for this MS sales-dweeb, then
 it's your companies fault.
 And remember, it's a two-way street.  The sales-dweeb can say anything he
 wants to you, but you can call also - including telling him to stick the
 .NET where the sun don't shine.
 It's like what Dr. Phil says - you can't be taken advatage of unless you
 let it happen.  The sales-dweebs push, and you are supposed to push back
 if it is not in your companies best interest.
 Hope this helps.

Remember also that M$ is used to being the only person you
can deal with. They are very, very unhappy that now you have
alternatives that run the same products (e.g., Oracle, DB2
on linux) and have a well-known, preferred desktop (e.g., OS/X).
This makes their sales reps exciteable and prone to playing
hardball as they watch their sales bonuses go up in smoke.
The recent spate of high-profile licensing clashes hasn't
helped any, so they are in an even fouler mood.

If you want them to shut up and play nice(r) then I'd strongly
suggest having a few prominent G3's around on desktops and at
least one server (say file + print running Samba) with an RH
or SuSE sitcker on it next to the NT boxes on your rack. See
if that helps them understand your point of view...

--
Steven Lembark   2930 W. Palmer
Workhorse Computing   Chicago, IL 60647
+1 800 762 1582
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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


Specifically ask about RAC's performance with respect to platform.  I saw a
demo that HP put on at a WOUG meeting where the NT cluster took 20-30
seconds to fail over.  While this isn't earth-shattering, there was mention
made that Unix/Linux failover times only took about 1-2 seconds.  Might be
an issue for e-commerce or such.

Very impressive demo they put on.  I especially liked the transparent query
failover and load balancing.  Da-rool, da-rool.  Of course, for us to
convert our concurrent user licenses to per-CPU licensing for RAC, well...

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 From: Glenn Travis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RAC (Real Application Clusters)
 
 
 I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a 
 dog-and-pony show on Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application 
 Clusters).  Does anyone have any experience or comments on 
 this product/technology?  Can you suggest some burning 
 questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?  This 
 is a technical overview and we will be seeing conversions 
 (Apps and non-Apps environments) as well as failure scenarios.
 
 Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.
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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail


Yechiel - But all things are NEVER equal. So companies end up doing stupid
things because of some larger motive. You end up buying crappy computers
because your boss thinks it will impress the CEO with how you are loyally
supporting someone that somehow supports your company.
Ironic isn't it. When the PC industry began, the computer industry was
firmly dominated by IBM. PC enthusiasts were a bunch of starry-eyed dreamers
that though they could wrestle computing away from the computer priesthood
and bring freedom to everyman. In many ways the Internet has made that dream
come true. But then we have Microsoft talking about creating a new security
system for my computer that on one hand will protect me from bad things and
on the other hand will protect the products of large corporations from me.
In a great number of ways Microsoft resembles the IBM of the past. 
obligatory Oracle reference
  Of course Larry Ellison only wishes he had these type of issues to
deal with.
/obligatory Oracle reference
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
 
Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] recipients of list ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM


This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not
a business 
guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common practice 
by MS? 

It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
understand all the various approaches to web services (also known as grid
computing -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 

There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 

Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will
be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our
global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone,
but it's not something we are going to ignore either.

Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 


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RE: Another datafile sizing question


Darren - Let me try to clarify my answer.
1. Yes, 800-meg is not really large with today's disk systems, so that
consolidation should be no problem.
2. If you are doing this type of consolidation, I think it would be a good
time for you to take as step back for broader perspective. Specifically, it
might be a good time for you to take a look at LMTs. Most of us DBAs only
perform this type of reorganization every few years, so it is a good idea to
incorporate the latest thinking. One of the reasons Oracle is moving us
toward LMTs is to reduce the DBA workload, so the Microsoft heads can't keep
saying not only is Oracle more expensive, but it takes a lot more
management.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:47 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'


Darren - My advice would be to read up on Locally Managed Tablespaces (LMT)
and uniform extents. This is a new feature that will ease your management
work.


Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am in the process of upgrading our databases from 8.0.5 to 8.1.7,
possibly 9i depending on application
certifications. 

I currently have a tablespace that is made up of 4 - 200mb datafiles, my
first thought would be to
create a 800mb datafile and move all the data into it, 

The growth of this tablespace is maybe 100 to 150Mb a year, and from
what I understand all datafiles should
be the same size.  So at that point when I need another datafile, I will
have to create another 800Mb datafile.

Would that be a good practise, or should I stay with multiple
200/300/400/500 etc datafiles ?

Thanks

Darren

--
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message was transmitted
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100% recycled electrons 
Information and Communication Technology
City of Coquitlam 
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RE: OEM website - cannot login ;-(


What browser are you using?  Perhaps you need to turn on Java/JS/cookies?

Just a thought...never had a problem with it myself on v3.

Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 From: Rahul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:18 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: OEM website - cannot login ;-(
 
 
 list,.. i have tried everything, but stiill i cannot login to 
 em website
 !!
 
 i *CAN* use OEM console (the java app) and can login using 
 SYSMAN (or SYS) 
 but... then i do http://myserver:1810/ it prompts with 
 
 realm: emterprise-manager
 username: sysman
 
 when i use the same password as when using the java OEM 
 console.. it does
 NOT work !!! 
 i';m sooo frustrated... i hve tried changing the password to default
 OEM_TEMP (using the method in metalink) 
 ,startup/shutdown the website.. but still does not work !! 
 
 what am i doing wrong ?
 
 regards
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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about how RAC will
allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the weak point is
how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a gigabit fiber
optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but suppose you have
a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a clustered server, but
then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point is keeping my
hardware people from buying into the concept.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a dog-and-pony show on
Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you suggest some
burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?  This is a
technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps and non-Apps
environments) as well as failure scenarios.

Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Gogala, Mladen


RAC isn't meant to be cheap. It is a fault-tolerant technology.
You cannot buy a Ferrari or Aston-Martin for $15,000 with only 2.5% APR.
As a matter of fact, when you are buying a red Ferrari, you are probably
not even going to mention APR. That is a difference between Ford Focus or 
Dodge Neon and a Ferrari. On the other hand, Neon or Focus probably do 
have better gas mileage.

 -Original Message-
 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)
 
 
 Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about 
 how RAC will
 allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the 
 weak point is
 how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a 
 gigabit fiber
 optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but 
 suppose you have
 a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a 
 clustered server, but
 then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point 
 is keeping my
 hardware people from buying into the concept.
  
 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a 
 dog-and-pony show on
 Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
 experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you 
 suggest some
 burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos? 
  This is a
 technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps 
 and non-Apps
 environments) as well as failure scenarios.
 
 Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.
 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Mercadante, Thomas F

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



you 
obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this. they really 
suck. 
you 
end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing. your report ends 
up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read. and 6 months later, they 
ask the same questions.

the 
biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research 
projects.

unless 
you *really* like doing them.

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  Well,
  regardless of MS tactics, the 
  last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz 
  Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 
  "
  
  What 
  is better than RD projects? At the end one wins no matter what. 
  Knowingmore does not hurt, does it?
  
  inka
  
  
  -Original 
  Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
Exactly.

In 
other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him "bye-bye 
now", "no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  What exactly is your problem?
  
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
  
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other 
  advocate paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give your 
  business to??
  
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas Jeff 

To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm 
not a business guy, just a 
plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it 
common practice by MS? 


  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
  approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see my 
  recent report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their approach 
  to this grand overarching software strategy. 
  There is a second reason why 
  we might be interested specifically in dot Net. Subsidiary 
  XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing 
  certain services], etc. Microsoft has told our management 
  that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how 
  good of a MS customer is the potential vendor. Specifically, has 
  the vendor bought in to the dot Net strategy. Now we 
  aren't going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy 
  decisions based upon that point alone, but it's not something we are 
  going to ignore either.
  Therefore, I support 
  investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the 
  word INVESTIGATING.

v$temp_space_header and v$temp_extent_pool

2002-09-26 Thread Cyril Thankappan


Hello,

it is acknowledged that v$temp_space_header.blocks_free
mean ONLY that the blocks have 'never ever been used'

Can someone confirm if
  v$temp_extent_pool.blocks_cached
is the 'real number of blocks available for sorting'?

How do we confirm this?

Observations

  v$temp_space_header.blocks_used +  
v$temp_space_header.blocks_free = v$tempfile.blocks

However,

v$temp_extent_pool.blocks_cached != 
v$temp_space_header.blocks_used

Waiting for your responses on this




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RE: Another datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Browett, Darren


Our SAN has been setup as RAID5, so the use of single large
datafiles is probably the method I will go with, using the added 
option of resizing once I read up on it some more :)

Darren

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 8:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


It's late at night maybe that's why I do not
understand your answer but I do not see the link
between LMT and the number/size of datafiles.

One reason of multiple datafiles id to spread IO but
since nowadays a majority of sites goes on huge disk
box using raid 5 (that's what we have, the unix guys
are the IT master here) multiple files is less
meaningful. 

What I liked is a file politics where you restrained
the number of file size. Here we have from 15M up to
8.5G file size with all the possibility in between.
I'm trying to standardize all that.

Another factor to consider is backup and recovery.
Restoring a 10G file will take more time than a 2G
file.

In your case, if file placement is not possible than
go for a 800M file and use a second one for the future
growth.



-- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
 Darren - My advice would be to read up on Locally
 Managed Tablespaces (LMT)
 and uniform extents. This is a new feature that will
 ease your management
 work.
 
 
 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:43 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 I am in the process of upgrading our databases from
 8.0.5 to 8.1.7,
 possibly 9i depending on application
 certifications. 
 
 I currently have a tablespace that is made up of 4 -
 200mb datafiles, my
 first thought would be to
 create a 800mb datafile and move all the data into
 it, 
 
 The growth of this tablespace is maybe 100 to 150Mb
 a year, and from
 what I understand all datafiles should
 be the same size.  So at that point when I need
 another datafile, I will
 have to create another 800Mb datafile.
 
 Would that be a good practise, or should I stay with
 multiple
 200/300/400/500 etc datafiles ?
 
 Thanks
 
 Darren


 --
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 message was transmitted
 Data Administratorusing
 100% recycled electrons 
 Information and Communication Technology
 City of Coquitlam 
 P:(604)927 - 3614 
 E:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


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=
Stéphane Paquette
DBA Oracle, consultant entrepôt de données
Oracle DBA, datawarehouse consultant
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RE: Another datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Browett, Darren


that is something I didn't consider, I will look into it further.

Thanks

Darren

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Is there a reason you can't just resize the existing file?

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am in the process of upgrading our databases from 8.0.5 to 8.1.7,
possibly 9i depending on application
certifications. 

I currently have a tablespace that is made up of 4 - 200mb datafiles, my
first thought would be to
create a 800mb datafile and move all the data into it, 

The growth of this tablespace is maybe 100 to 150Mb a year, and from
what I understand all datafiles should
be the same size.  So at that point when I need another datafile, I will
have to create another 800Mb datafile.

Would that be a good practise, or should I stay with multiple
200/300/400/500 etc datafiles ?

Thanks

Darren

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Don't leave

2002-09-26 Thread Mohammad Rafiq


Rachel,

The godess (number 1)

(which gives Jared heart attacks when he thinks I'm leaving for good)

Not only Jared , but we all will miss your particpation as godess number 2 
Lisa Rutland( I always forget her married name) already away from this list 
for a while

Regards
Rafiq






Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 03:03:22 -0800

oh damn, I knew I'd screw it up...  I have a user group meeting today,
this list will overflow my mailbox if I don't check it several times a
day, rather than unsubscribe (which gives Jared heart attacks when he
thinks I'm leaving for good) I thought I'd try this.

See what happens when I try to do things and it's past my bedtime?

Okay, let's try this again, PROPERLY this time

I won't miss Mladen's poetry -- I told him he had to come to a user
group meeting to read it to us


--- Deshpande, Kirti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Ooops!!!
 
  Got tired of us, eh!
 
  Now, you're sure going to miss Mladen's poetry !! ;)
 
  - Kirti
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:43 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
  NOMAIL ORACLE-L
 
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Re: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?

2002-09-26 Thread Hemant K Chitale



Well, yes, that is one option.  Can I issue an ALTER TABLE table MOVE to 
the same tablespace, I wonder.

Thanks
Hemant
At 08:23 AM 25-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
Hemant,

If I understand your question correctly, trying using the alter table move 
command and specify new values for pctfree and pctused.  This should 
affect existing blocks.  Make sure to rebuild any indicies.

HTH,
--
Alan Davey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On 9/25/2002 11:38 AM, Hemant K Chitale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Let me clarify my original question.
 
 I do not expect the FreeList for a table to get updated instantaneously
 after I  change the PCTFREE/PCTUSED.
 What I meant by is the effect ... immediate is that do the
 new values come into play immediately -- even for existing blocks.
 
 Suppose I have a table where PCTFREE was high (40)
 and PCTUSED high (50 or 60).  Thus, ignoring deletes [and overheads],
 there would have been about 60% [100-40] usage in the block --
 these could mean a large number of rows.
 Now, I want to reduce the number of rows in a block -- the
 particular table is a hot table where some blocks become
 very hot spots [extremely high rate of updates to existing rows,
 updates which do not increase the size of existing rows].
 My cache buffer chains latch contention is high.
 I further introduce the possibility of deletes [e.g. a purge job
 running daily].  Because PCTUSED is high, and not very many
 rows in a block get deleted at each purge, the block is unlikely
 to come into the FreeList early.  It would be a number of days
 before enough rows are deleted from the block.
 
 Therefore, to reduce the contention for the hot blocks, I decide
 to have only 1 row in each block.  Normally, with a *NEW* table,
 PCTFRE 99 and PCTUSED 1 would ensure that I have only 1 row per block.
 But if I have a large number of blocks in a few extents created when
 PCTFREE was 40 and PCTUSED 50 or 60.  When would these
 existing blocks start behaving as if they were created with
 PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 ?
 How about new blocks ?  Would new [empty] blocks in existing
 extents immediately behave such that they allow only one row
 per block ?  Or would only new blocks in new extents take
 the PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 attributes ?
 
 Hemant
 
 
 
 At 03:53 PM 24-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
 I replied too soon earlier, I think.
 
 Yes, what you state is correct.
 
 Jraed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   09/24/2002 09:08 AM
   Please respond to ORACLE-L
 
 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  cc:
  Subject:RE: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED
 
  immediate ?
 
 
 Well I was sure about it until you had the temerity to question
 me :)
 I think we agree on extents sizes not being changed after the event
 so it
 is
 now a discussion on whether changes to a pctfree/pctused are
 retrospective.
 
 I contend that if a table is fully loaded upto its pctfree/pctused
 limits
 and there are no available blocks on the freelist then by changing
 the
 pctfree/pctused values no additional blocks will suddenly appear
 on the
 freelist.
 I do agree however that if a block is amended by having a row deleted
 or a
 row updated then the new values come into play and the blockcould
 then be
 available on the freelist.
 
 I think I am correct on this but as with anything I am always ready
 to be
 proved wrong - it has happened before and wil lhappen may times
 in the
 future
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 24 September 2002 15:47
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 Are you sure about that John?
 
 On Tuesday 24 September 2002 04:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   No, it is not retrospective.
   You are setting parameters to be used when the next extent is
 created.
   A better example is when setting next extent size to be different
 than
 the
   existing  extent size (dictionary managed tablespaces only).
   It does not alter all the existing extents it only works on the
 next one
   that is  created.
  
   HTH
  
   John
  
   -Original Message-
   Sent: 24 September 2002 10:58
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
   Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?
  
  
   If I do an ALTER TABLE tablename PCTFREE 99 PCTUSED1,
   does this take effect immediately, even for existing blocks.
   [If so, existing blocks would not get new rows inserted].
   Or is it effective only in new Extents ? In that case,
   existing blocks in existing Extents still use the old
   PCTFREE/PCTUSED parameters and keep re-entering the
   FreeList.
  
   Hemant K Chitale
   http://hkchital.tripod.com
 --
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 To REMOVE

RE: datafile sizing question


Michael - I've done it both ways, and yes, it depends on how AR you wish to
be. You can convert everything to K and get pretty precise. Or you can
simply create the tablespace and datafile, then query the free space and
create your table accordingly. Of course LMT with uniform extents changes
the rules a bit, especially for us AR types.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I also have a just curious question.  Do most interchange the values 1000K
for 1M or 1000M for 1G?  I try to be precise in my usage, but I guess that's
just the AR size of my personality.  OK, I'll go find my pills now. ;)  By
the way, we use a maximum size of 4Gb+8k file size but, I've never has a
reason to doubt the DEC/Compaq 64bit file systems.

Mike

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:03 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we get
2001, 10001 Mb etc  
Solaris 2.8
LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
 
John
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RE: Another datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Browett, Darren


Thanks Dennis

I was going to use LMT's, I didn't mention it in my email as I thought
it would be irrelevant to the question I was asking.

The first database in question to move is oracle financials 11.5.7 which
requires you to move to LMT's

Darren

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 8:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Darren - Let me try to clarify my answer.
1. Yes, 800-meg is not really large with today's disk systems, so that
consolidation should be no problem.
2. If you are doing this type of consolidation, I think it would be a good
time for you to take as step back for broader perspective. Specifically, it
might be a good time for you to take a look at LMTs. Most of us DBAs only
perform this type of reorganization every few years, so it is a good idea to
incorporate the latest thinking. One of the reasons Oracle is moving us
toward LMTs is to reduce the DBA workload, so the Microsoft heads can't keep
saying not only is Oracle more expensive, but it takes a lot more
management.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:47 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'


Darren - My advice would be to read up on Locally Managed Tablespaces (LMT)
and uniform extents. This is a new feature that will ease your management
work.


Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am in the process of upgrading our databases from 8.0.5 to 8.1.7,
possibly 9i depending on application
certifications. 

I currently have a tablespace that is made up of 4 - 200mb datafiles, my
first thought would be to
create a 800mb datafile and move all the data into it, 

The growth of this tablespace is maybe 100 to 150Mb a year, and from
what I understand all datafiles should
be the same size.  So at that point when I need another datafile, I will
have to create another 800Mb datafile.

Would that be a good practise, or should I stay with multiple
200/300/400/500 etc datafiles ?

Thanks

Darren

--
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message was transmitted
Data Administrator  using
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Information and Communication Technology
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P:(604)927 - 3614 
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RE: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?

2002-09-26 Thread Deshpande, Kirti


Yes, you can! 

- Kirti 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Well, yes, that is one option.  Can I issue an ALTER TABLE table MOVE to 
the same tablespace, I wonder.

Thanks
Hemant
At 08:23 AM 25-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
Hemant,

If I understand your question correctly, trying using the alter table move 
command and specify new values for pctfree and pctused.  This should 
affect existing blocks.  Make sure to rebuild any indicies.

HTH,
--
Alan Davey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On 9/25/2002 11:38 AM, Hemant K Chitale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Let me clarify my original question.
 
 I do not expect the FreeList for a table to get updated instantaneously
 after I  change the PCTFREE/PCTUSED.
 What I meant by is the effect ... immediate is that do the
 new values come into play immediately -- even for existing blocks.
 
 Suppose I have a table where PCTFREE was high (40)
 and PCTUSED high (50 or 60).  Thus, ignoring deletes [and overheads],
 there would have been about 60% [100-40] usage in the block --
 these could mean a large number of rows.
 Now, I want to reduce the number of rows in a block -- the
 particular table is a hot table where some blocks become
 very hot spots [extremely high rate of updates to existing rows,
 updates which do not increase the size of existing rows].
 My cache buffer chains latch contention is high.
 I further introduce the possibility of deletes [e.g. a purge job
 running daily].  Because PCTUSED is high, and not very many
 rows in a block get deleted at each purge, the block is unlikely
 to come into the FreeList early.  It would be a number of days
 before enough rows are deleted from the block.
 
 Therefore, to reduce the contention for the hot blocks, I decide
 to have only 1 row in each block.  Normally, with a *NEW* table,
 PCTFRE 99 and PCTUSED 1 would ensure that I have only 1 row per block.
 But if I have a large number of blocks in a few extents created when
 PCTFREE was 40 and PCTUSED 50 or 60.  When would these
 existing blocks start behaving as if they were created with
 PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 ?
 How about new blocks ?  Would new [empty] blocks in existing
 extents immediately behave such that they allow only one row
 per block ?  Or would only new blocks in new extents take
 the PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 attributes ?
 
 Hemant
 
 
 
 At 03:53 PM 24-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
 I replied too soon earlier, I think.
 
 Yes, what you state is correct.
 
 Jraed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   09/24/2002 09:08 AM
   Please respond to ORACLE-L
 
 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  cc:
  Subject:RE: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED
 
  immediate ?
 
 
 Well I was sure about it until you had the temerity to question
 me :)
 I think we agree on extents sizes not being changed after the event
 so it
 is
 now a discussion on whether changes to a pctfree/pctused are
 retrospective.
 
 I contend that if a table is fully loaded upto its pctfree/pctused
 limits
 and there are no available blocks on the freelist then by changing
 the
 pctfree/pctused values no additional blocks will suddenly appear
 on the
 freelist.
 I do agree however that if a block is amended by having a row deleted
 or a
 row updated then the new values come into play and the blockcould
 then be
 available on the freelist.
 
 I think I am correct on this but as with anything I am always ready
 to be
 proved wrong - it has happened before and wil lhappen may times
 in the
 future
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 24 September 2002 15:47
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 Are you sure about that John?
 
 On Tuesday 24 September 2002 04:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   No, it is not retrospective.
   You are setting parameters to be used when the next extent is
 created.
   A better example is when setting next extent size to be different
 than
 the
   existing  extent size (dictionary managed tablespaces only).
   It does not alter all the existing extents it only works on the
 next one
   that is  created.
  
   HTH
  
   John
  
   -Original Message-
   Sent: 24 September 2002 10:58
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
   Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?
  
  
   If I do an ALTER TABLE tablename PCTFREE 99 PCTUSED1,
   does this take effect immediately, even for existing blocks.
   [If so, existing blocks would not get new rows inserted].
   Or is it effective only in new Extents ? In that case,
   existing blocks in existing Extents still use the old
   PCTFREE/PCTUSED parameters and keep re-entering the
   FreeList.
  
   Hemant K Chitale
   http://hkchital.tripod.com
 --
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
 --
 Author:
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego,

RE: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?

2002-09-26 Thread Hemant K Chitale



Yes, I think  I need to test it for myself and see what I get.

As for the busy table in a production environment [24x7, so there's no time
to rebuild the table normally], I've put in a request for 30minutes downtime
[I am allowed an occassional 15 to 30 minutes every two months] to rebuild
the table.
Hemant
At 08:33 AM 25-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
Hemant wrote
  
Therefore, to reduce the contention for the hot blocks, I decide
to have only 1 row in each block.  Normally, with a *NEW* table,
PCTFRE 99 and PCTUSED 1 would ensure that I have only 1 row per block.
But if I have a large number of blocks in a few extents created when
PCTFREE was 40 and PCTUSED 50 or 60.  When would these
existing blocks start behaving as if they were created with
PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 ?
How about new blocks ?  Would new [empty] blocks in existing
extents immediately behave such that they allow only one row
per block ?  Or would only new blocks in new extents take
the PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 attributes ?
 

I would guess the following Hemant,
After changing the PCTFREE/PCTUSED values I do not think existing blocks
will be changed until sufficient rows are deleted so that a block will be
available on the freelist.
If as you say there is only 1 row to a block then that would need to be
deleted so that the block became available on the freelist
and the new values would apply once a new row was inserted.
Moving on from there it seems logical to me (that may be where I am going
wrong!!) that an existing empty block will have it's  values changed and
will remain on the freelist but with revised parameters. I cannot say for
certain without performing some tests but that is my gut feel

HTH

John



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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

Hemant K Chitale
My web site page is :  http://hkchital.tripod.com


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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Hemant K Chitale



Yes, I concur.  RAC might be positioned as a cluster of cheap Intel/Linux 
servers
but a true cluster isn't really cheap.
On Compaq Tru64 Cluster, we are going for a Memory Channel Interconnect
which, I understand, is even more expensive than Gigabit.

hemant
At 07:43 AM 26-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about how RAC will
allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the weak point is
how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a gigabit fiber
optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but suppose you have
a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a clustered server, but
then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point is keeping my
hardware people from buying into the concept.

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a dog-and-pony show on
Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you suggest some
burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?  This is a
technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps and non-Apps
environments) as well as failure scenarios.

Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Toepke, Kevin M

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail

I view
a RD project not as"adding value to thebusiness",
buttraining for myself. Everytime I have participated on an RD
project I have learned a significant amount and have gained invaluable
experience!

If you
go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be frustrated. If you
go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in a "real world"
setting, then you'll come away enriched by the experience!

-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002
11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
you
obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this. they really
suck.
you
end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing. your report
ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read. and 6 months later,
they ask the same questions.

the
biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research
projects.

unless you *really* like doing them.

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional

-Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002
11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating SQL
server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. "

What is better than RD projects? At the
end one wins no matter what. Knowingmore does not hurt, does
it?

inka

-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26,
2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

Exactly.

In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him
"bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional

-Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26,
2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail
What exactly is your problem?

Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other
advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give
your business to??

Yechiel AdarMehish

- Original Message -
From:
Thomas
Jeff
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Sent: Thursday, September 26,
2002 1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team
today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm
not a business guy, just a
plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it
common practice by
MS?

It is important from an
Architecture point of view that we understand all the various
approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- see
my recent report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is their
approach to this grand overarching software strategy.
There is a second reason
why we might be interested specifically in dot Net.
Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from
Microsoft by [performing
certain services], etc. Microsoft has told our management
that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be how
good of a MS customer is the potential vendor. Specifically,
has the vendor bought in to the dot Net strategy.
Now we aren't going to make our global enterprise solutions strategy
decisions based upon that point alone, but it's not something we are
going to ignore either.
Therefore, I support
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the
word INVESTIGATING.

RE: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Karniotis, Stephen


Goddess:

   The conclusions are correct.  The OS must be configured to properly
handle the 64-bit architecture, thus, large files.  The 32-bit limitation on
2GB files is still imposed unless this occurs.  Although Oracle can
accommodate  2GB files, you must have the OS handle the outside Oracle
work.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Wednesday, September 25, 2002 4:39 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: datafile sizing question

I think it's automatic on Solaris 2.8 but I don't know for sure so I'd
rather not rely on it.

I'm going with 2001M and creating about a year's worth of
tablespaces/partitions. 101 datafiles and tablespaces. Just to
START.

my aching typing fingers!

--- Paul Baumgartel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I believe that the OS filesystem has to be configured for large file
 support (on HP-UX, it's a kernel parameter) to allow files  2 GB.  
 
 I usually just add 1 MB to the file size to allow for the header. 
 Personally, I'd play it safe and go with however many 2001 MB files
 you
 need to accommodate your objects.
 
 
 --- Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm betting that it's not 64-bit Oracle. See, I am the development
  DBA.
  As an employee, I get to create the scripts, but I don't get to run
  them or even get access as oracle to the servers.
  
  In other words, all the grunt work, all the responsibility for
  problems
  (production is managed by a hosting company) but none of the power
 to
  make sure it's right.
  
  I love my job. Why?
  
  Rachel
  
 
 
 
 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 New DSL Internet Access from SBC  Yahoo!
 http://sbc.yahoo.com
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The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
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it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately
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* Oracle DBA with SAP experience Needed

2002-09-26 Thread OraStaff


If you are an Oracle DBA With SAP experience looking for a stable company 
where you can work within a great team environment, this company in Toledo,
Ohio 
is the place for you. This Fortune 500 employer has experienced steady
growth over
the hundred years it has been in business and is looking for a top notch
candidate.
This company is located in a very reasonable cost of living area and offers
a varied choice 
of neighborhood communities.
If you are looking for a place to grow within your career in a smaller city
atmosphere 
this is the opportunity to check out. 

Relocation Assistance is provided.

PLEASE DO NOT send your resume for this position UNLESS you have the skills 
outlined below for this position.

DO NOT send your resume unless you have a stable work history.
Candidates whose work history includes frequent job changes connot be
considered.
If you are employed by a consulting company you must have a long term
project history.

This is a full time staff position so no sub-contractors or third parties
please.

NO H-1B candidates please.

*Requirements:
-MUST be a team player.
-3+ years Oracle DBA experience.
-SAP experience
-Must have experience with:Installation, Backup and recovery,
Implementation, Conversion, 
 Performance tuning, Troubleshooting, Development, Database Design,
Monitoring, and Support.
-MUST have excellent communications skills
-Major plusses are: SQL Backtrack, DB Artisan, Powerbuilder, Shell scripting
and experience with
 Sybase and/or SQL Server. 

Base Salary is 55K-to maybe high 60s Firm.

The employer itself offers a comprehensive medical plan, dental insurance,
life insurance, 
sick leave and disability plans, a retirement plan, vacation days, a 401K
Plan, and much more. 

For immediate consideration, please email your resume as an attachment to:

OraStaff, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 1-800-549-8502. 
Please Use Job Code: One/Toledo/DBA-SAP/Jenni

I pay referral fees.
So please contact me if you know of anyone who would be qualified/interested
in the position described above- if it is not a match for your skills.
Thanks.







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Re: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?

2002-09-26 Thread Alan Davey


Yes you can move within the same tablespace.

I had to do this when one of the other developers created a table with the default 
pctfree.  Updates were causing rows to chain, so I issued the alter table move command 
with a new pctfree.  Rebuilt the indexes and analyzed the table again and so far 
everything is working great.

-- 

Alan Davey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
212-604-0200  x106


On 9/26/2002 12:33 PM, Hemant K Chitale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Well, yes, that is one option.  Can I issue an ALTER TABLE table 
MOVE to 
the same tablespace, I wonder.

Thanks
Hemant
At 08:23 AM 25-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
Hemant,

If I understand your question correctly, trying using the alter 
table move 
command and specify new values for pctfree and pctused.  This should 

affect existing blocks.  Make sure to rebuild any indicies.

HTH,
--
Alan Davey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On 9/25/2002 11:38 AM, Hemant K Chitale [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 Let me clarify my original question.
 
 I do not expect the FreeList for a table to get updated instantaneously
 after I  change the PCTFREE/PCTUSED.
 What I meant by is the effect ... immediate is that do the
 new values come into play immediately -- even for existing blocks.
 
 Suppose I have a table where PCTFREE was high (40)
 and PCTUSED high (50 or 60).  Thus, ignoring deletes [and overheads],
 there would have been about 60% [100-40] usage in the block --
 these could mean a large number of rows.
 Now, I want to reduce the number of rows in a block -- the
 particular table is a hot table where some blocks become
 very hot spots [extremely high rate of updates to existing rows,
 updates which do not increase the size of existing rows].
 My cache buffer chains latch contention is high.
 I further introduce the possibility of deletes [e.g. a purge job
 running daily].  Because PCTUSED is high, and not very many
 rows in a block get deleted at each purge, the block is unlikely
 to come into the FreeList early.  It would be a number of days
 before enough rows are deleted from the block.
 
 Therefore, to reduce the contention for the hot blocks, I decide
 to have only 1 row in each block.  Normally, with a *NEW* table,
 PCTFRE 99 and PCTUSED 1 would ensure that I have only 1 row per 
block.
 But if I have a large number of blocks in a few extents created 
when
 PCTFREE was 40 and PCTUSED 50 or 60.  When would these
 existing blocks start behaving as if they were created with
 PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 ?
 How about new blocks ?  Would new [empty] blocks in existing
 extents immediately behave such that they allow only one row
 per block ?  Or would only new blocks in new extents take
 the PCTFREE 99 and PCTUSED 1 attributes ?
 
 Hemant
 
 
 
 At 03:53 PM 24-09-02 -0800, you wrote:
 I replied too soon earlier, I think.
 
 Yes, what you state is correct.
 
 Jraed
 
 
 
 
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   09/24/2002 09:08 AM
   Please respond to ORACLE-L
 
 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  cc:
  Subject:RE: Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED
 
  immediate ?
 
 
 Well I was sure about it until you had the temerity to question
 me :)
 I think we agree on extents sizes not being changed after the 
event
 so it
 is
 now a discussion on whether changes to a pctfree/pctused are
 retrospective.
 
 I contend that if a table is fully loaded upto its pctfree/pctused
 limits
 and there are no available blocks on the freelist then by changing
 the
 pctfree/pctused values no additional blocks will suddenly appear
 on the
 freelist.
 I do agree however that if a block is amended by having a row 
deleted
 or a
 row updated then the new values come into play and the blockcould
 then be
 available on the freelist.
 
 I think I am correct on this but as with anything I am always 
ready
 to be
 proved wrong - it has happened before and wil lhappen may times
 in the
 future
 
 John
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 24 September 2002 15:47
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 Are you sure about that John?
 
 On Tuesday 24 September 2002 04:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   No, it is not retrospective.
   You are setting parameters to be used when the next extent 
is
 created.
   A better example is when setting next extent size to be different
 than
 the
   existing  extent size (dictionary managed tablespaces only).
   It does not alter all the existing extents it only works on 
the
 next one
   that is  created.
  
   HTH
  
   John
  
   -Original Message-
   Sent: 24 September 2002 10:58
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  
   Is the effect of modifying PCTFREE/PCTUSED immediate ?
  
  
   If I do an ALTER TABLE tablename PCTFREE 99 PCTUSED1,
   does this take effect immediately, even for existing blocks.
   [If so, existing blocks would not get new rows inserted].
   Or is it effective only in new Extents ? In that case,
   existing blocks in existing Extents still use

RE: Automation of Migration to Oracle9i

2002-09-26 Thread Molina, Gerardo


I think it's very possible.  Run the Universal Installer once
(interactively).  Tar up the stuff under the product directory (all
subdirectories including jre and 9.2.0.1).

Now you can use the tar file to install to another machine.  Write a wrapper
script that untars your image.

I recommend Perl and the Expect perl module for this type of work.  This
combination (Perl with Expect module) makes telnet'ing and ftp'ing a snap.
I haven't tried to do ssh and scp yet via this method but I suspect it's
also possible.

There are some gotchas to watch out for.

You have to keep the ORACLE_HOME directory name the same.  Don't expect
things to work if you change the directory name.  This used to be the case
with 7.x but not any more since 8.1.x.

If you are setting up web server, then I think you have to figure out where
the host name is hard-coded into the config files.  We have not had to
worry about this, since we do not set up the web server as part of our
database server installs.

HTH
Gerardo

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 7:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi,

I've been charged with coming up with automation scripts which will
migration
customer databases from Oracle 7.3.4 to Oracle 9i (35 databases in all).
As the databases aren't huge I was gonna go with the Export/Import option
(rather than MIG utility),
so I'm in the process of writing batch files and sql scripts to automate
this stage of the process.

I was under the impression that the installation of the 9i software would be
a manual process,
but from the Universal Installer help I see it's possible to run this in
silent mode with response files.

Has anyone ever used this before and how have you got on?  Do you think it
would be possible for
me to come up with scripts to automate this to run on all the client sites
with minimal user intervention (assuming identical file systems)?

It sounds too good to be true.

Cheers,
Kieran Murray
CardBASE Technologies Limited® 
Crofton Road
Dun Laoghaire
Co Dublin   
Ireland
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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Orr, Steve


To which I would add... downtime and losing data can be very expensive so
given the alternative, if you need fault tolerance and scalability then
maybe it is cheap by comparison. 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:14 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dennis,

True, a 2/3 node clusters ain't that cheap.  But to achieve high
availability
the other choice is to buy a high end server like Sun E10k or the newer
ones.  And I think the 2/3 node clusters are cheap compare to those big
iron boxes and you get a very good availability and scalability from
clusters.
I think that's the selling point of RAC.  You can cluster bunch of cheaper
Intel based machines running Linux cluster and run RAC on it.

Richard

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about how RAC will
allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the weak point is
how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a gigabit fiber
optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but suppose you have
a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a clustered server, but
then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point is keeping my
hardware people from buying into the concept.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a dog-and-pony show on
Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you suggest some
burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?  This is a
technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps and non-Apps
environments) as well as failure scenarios.

Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Ji, Richard


Dennis,

True, a 2/3 node clusters ain't that cheap.  But to achieve high
availability
the other choice is to buy a high end server like Sun E10k or the newer
ones.  And I think the 2/3 node clusters are cheap compare to those big
iron boxes and you get a very good availability and scalability from
clusters.
I think that's the selling point of RAC.  You can cluster bunch of cheaper
Intel based machines running Linux cluster and run RAC on it.

Richard

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about how RAC will
allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the weak point is
how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a gigabit fiber
optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but suppose you have
a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a clustered server, but
then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point is keeping my
hardware people from buying into the concept.
 
Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a dog-and-pony show on
Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you suggest some
burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?  This is a
technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps and non-Apps
environments) as well as failure scenarios.

Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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Metalink problems loading images?


Or do I need to talk with our networking group about the firewall?  This
link, taken directly from the Metalink My Headlines page, errors out for
me with could not locate remote server:

http://gts214.us.oracle.com:8000/images/metalink/usaeng/navbar/metalink/nav_
library_off.gif

TIA!

Rich

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extremely long parse time

2002-09-26 Thread Adams, Matthew (GEA, MABG, 088130)

Title: extremely long parse time





why would a query take 148 seconds to 
parse? It is a two way union 
where the first half is going against all_tables
and the second half is a join 
between all_indexes and all_ind_columns.


The shared pool has 50M large parts of it are
free. I generated a 10046 (level 12) trace, and I just 
don't see anything out of whack, except of the 
c=14868 in the PARSE #1 line.





Matt Adams - GE Appliances - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Their fundamental design flaws are completely
hidden by their superficial design flaws.
 - Douglas Adams

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail

Don't you
think that the constant search for the nirvana of us all - a perfect solution to
somebody else's problems includes pulling off the shelf that report written a
long time ago?

In
addition,reports are just side effects of "knowing
better". Are they not?

I have been
learning new, newer and the newest since the down of time.When dinosaurs
roamed through the thousands of square meters of computer rooms
hostingmagic machines with less computing power than garage door openers
of today and whenrubber mallets
werebasic tools of all smart computer operatorsit was easy to know it
all.

Now adding one
to the fifth digit after the decimal point on the knowledge scale of anyone
butMr.Data is a challenge.

Getting a
chance to know better seems like a pretty good deal to me, even if a dreaded
report has to be produced. After all, it is at least one of reasons why we all
subscribe to this list - to know better.

grandma
inka

-Original
Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002
11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

you
obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this. they really
suck.
you
end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing. your report
ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read. and 6 months later,
they ask the same questions.

the
biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research
projects.

unless you *really* like doing them.

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional

What is better than RD projects? At the
end one wins no matter what. Knowingmore does not hurt, does
it?

inka

-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26,
2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

Exactly.

In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him
"bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional

Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper.

You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other
advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give
your business to??

Yechiel AdarMehish

- Original Message -
From:
Thomas
Jeff
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Sent: Thursday, September 26,
2002 1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team
today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. I'm
not a business guy, just a
plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off. Is it
common practice by
MS?

RE: datafile sizing question

2002-09-26 Thread Gesler, Rich


Well as long as we are being AR...Don't you mean DEC/Compaq/HP
:-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I also have a just curious question.  Do most interchange the values 1000K
for 1M or 1000M for 1G?  I try to be precise in my usage, but I guess that's
just the AR size of my personality.  OK, I'll go find my pills now. ;)  By
the way, we use a maximum size of 4Gb+8k file size but, I've never has a
reason to doubt the DEC/Compaq 64bit file systems.

Mike

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:03 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


We tend to use multiples of 1Gb and add 1 Mb to the file so that we get
2001, 10001 Mb etc  
Solaris 2.8
LMT uniform extents range from 64K to 20Mb
 
John
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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


I have a ZX3 Focus (lady driven, low mileage, autumn red) which I gladly exchange for 
a Ferrari (any colour) or Aston-Martin (only racing green). Are you interested?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


RAC isn't meant to be cheap. It is a fault-tolerant technology.
You cannot buy a Ferrari or Aston-Martin for $15,000 with only 2.5% APR.
As a matter of fact, when you are buying a red Ferrari, you are probably
not even going to mention APR. That is a difference between Ford Focus or 
Dodge Neon and a Ferrari. On the other hand, Neon or Focus probably do 
have better gas mileage.

 -Original Message-
 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)
 
 
 Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about 
 how RAC will
 allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the 
 weak point is
 how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a 
 gigabit fiber
 optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but 
 suppose you have
 a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a 
 clustered server, but
 then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point 
 is keeping my
 hardware people from buying into the concept.
  
 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a 
 dog-and-pony show on
 Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
 experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you 
 suggest some
 burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos? 
  This is a
 technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps 
 and non-Apps
 environments) as well as failure scenarios.
 
 Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.
 
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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9i QUESTIONS: STANDBY DATABASE IMPLEMENTATION

2002-09-26 Thread Johan Muller


I HAVE read the Data Guard Concepts and Administration manual
(repeatedly)and will re-read it several more times.

Questions:

1. Any other publications, articles, white papers to follow up on?

2. Has anybody implemented this (9.2 on AIX with IBM Shark storage) and with
what level of succes/failure/gotchas. The config that is planned is to put
the standby database on a separate AIX platform attached to another Shark
storage unit.

3. If there is a canned, step-by-step proc anywhere, would anybody be kind
enough to post the same.

I vaguely recall this topic from previous posts, but as per usual can't
remember much (in fact remember zero is a lot closer - just another senior
moment I guess).


TIA.



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Re: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Tim Gorman


lady-driven?

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:55 AM


I have a ZX3 Focus (lady driven, low mileage, autumn red) which I gladly
exchange for a Ferrari (any colour) or Aston-Martin (only racing green). Are
you interested?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


RAC isn't meant to be cheap. It is a fault-tolerant technology.
You cannot buy a Ferrari or Aston-Martin for $15,000 with only 2.5% APR.
As a matter of fact, when you are buying a red Ferrari, you are probably
not even going to mention APR. That is a difference between Ford Focus or
Dodge Neon and a Ferrari. On the other hand, Neon or Focus probably do
have better gas mileage.

 -Original Message-
 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


 Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about
 how RAC will
 allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the
 weak point is
 how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a
 gigabit fiber
 optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but
 suppose you have
 a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a
 clustered server, but
 then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point
 is keeping my
 hardware people from buying into the concept.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a
 dog-and-pony show on
 Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
 experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you
 suggest some
 burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?
  This is a
 technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps
 and non-Apps
 environments) as well as failure scenarios.

 Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


 --
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OT: ok so i'm bored working on rman scripts

2002-09-26 Thread JOE TESTA




so i took the first 2 stories and put them on 

http://www.oracle-dba.com/bdbafh

nothing pretty, maybe i'll mess with it later today, text only so 
far.

feel free to submit your part of the on-going saga to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

joe

Re: DBA place in the business (was RE: DBA work load)

2002-09-26 Thread Jared . Still


I've thought for some time now that DBA's are the pragmatist's of IT.

We fit everywhere, and nowhere.

My boss is still trying to figure out what I do.  ;)

Jared






Robson, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 09/26/2002 02:13 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: 
Subject:DBA place in the business (was RE: DBA work load)



I've found the thread on DBA workload valuable and interesting. It 
endorses
points made repeatedly over the past years, basically the highly variable
nature of the job.

This variability is giving us a small problem. Our dba work (shared 
between
two of us) tends to function in the background, and of course because we 
do
it so damn well (!!), our impact on the running of the organisation is
pretty low. Kind of 'reverse exception' effect, if you will.

There is now a desire to formalise the role of the dba function within the
organisation, and nobody has the first idea of how to define, in an
organisational / structural sense just how the dba role slots in. I'm
talking about organsiational charts, herarchies etc, that sort of thing. 
Not
just across the org, but particularly within the IT domain too.
Specifically, dba impacts from the low-level hardware side, right up to
application development, with everything in between. And that already 
spans
several existing lines of management responsibility. Our problem has added
spice as we are (trying) to operate a matrix management system, which
repeatedly throws up intriguing political dimensions.

Anybody ever been down this particular route?

Any thoughts much appreciated,

peter
edinburgh


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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

2002-09-26 Thread Gogala, Mladen

Inka, I don't have a Ferrari, but if my Ford Taurus would
qualify, let me know. 110,000 miles, majority of them on highway miles,
driver likes to push the pedal to the medal occasionally. 
Metallic blue.

 -Original Message-
 From: Inka Bezdziecka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:55 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

 I have a ZX3 Focus (lady driven, low mileage, autumn red) 
 which I gladly exchange for a Ferrari (any colour) or 
 Aston-Martin (only racing green). Are you interested?

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:03 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 RAC isn't meant to be cheap. It is a fault-tolerant technology.
 You cannot buy a Ferrari or Aston-Martin for $15,000 with 
 only 2.5% APR.
 As a matter of fact, when you are buying a red Ferrari, you 
 are probably
 not even going to mention APR. That is a difference between 
 Ford Focus or 
 Dodge Neon and a Ferrari. On the other hand, Neon or Focus 
 probably do 
 have better gas mileage.

  -Original Message-
  From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)

  Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about 
  how RAC will
  allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the 
  weak point is
  how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a 
  gigabit fiber
  optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but 
  suppose you have
  a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a 
  clustered server, but
  then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point 
  is keeping my
  hardware people from buying into the concept.

  Dennis Williams
  DBA
  Lifetouch, Inc.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

  I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a 
  dog-and-pony show on
  Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
  experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you 
  suggest some
  burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos? 
   This is a
  technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps 
  and non-Apps
  environments) as well as failure scenarios.

  Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.

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Degrade a database??

2002-09-26 Thread Rajesh . Rao


Hello All,

We are in the process of upgrading a database from 8.0.6 to 8.1.7. The
upgrade is not a problem. We have been asked to come out with a fast
rollback strategy in case we have to fall back, say after a week, to the
8.0.6 database with no data loss.  Any fresh ideas?

Thanks
Raj

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RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


Checking the syntax? I had a friend ones, who  used to say that I had a heavy accent 
even when I wrote. So there.

Well,
more and more often  B'essDBAFH-driven straight to the nuthouse. 

Ladies drive to an insane asylum. Am I correct?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


lady-driven?

- Original Message -
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:55 AM


I have a ZX3 Focus (lady driven, low mileage, autumn red) which I gladly
exchange for a Ferrari (any colour) or Aston-Martin (only racing green). Are
you interested?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:03 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


RAC isn't meant to be cheap. It is a fault-tolerant technology.
You cannot buy a Ferrari or Aston-Martin for $15,000 with only 2.5% APR.
As a matter of fact, when you are buying a red Ferrari, you are probably
not even going to mention APR. That is a difference between Ford Focus or
Dodge Neon and a Ferrari. On the other hand, Neon or Focus probably do
have better gas mileage.

 -Original Message-
 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: RE: RAC (Real Application Clusters)


 Glenn - I have a question you could ask. Oracle talks about
 how RAC will
 allow Oracle to make better use of cheap computers. To me the
 weak point is
 how much bandwidth you have between the nodes. If you have a
 gigabit fiber
 optic connection between the nodes, it might work well, but
 suppose you have
 a shared LAN? To me, RAC would work quite nicely in a
 clustered server, but
 then we've strolled away from cheap, haven't we? This point
 is keeping my
 hardware people from buying into the concept.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:04 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


 I am visiting Oracle next week and will be getting a
 dog-and-pony show on
 Oracle 9i and RAC (Real Application Clusters).  Does anyone have any
 experience or comments on this product/technology?  Can you
 suggest some
 burning questions I can pose to Oracle when we get the demos?
  This is a
 technical overview and we will be seeing conversions (Apps
 and non-Apps
 environments) as well as failure scenarios.

 Any advice/comments are welcome.  Thanks.


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RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Orr, Steve

Title: OT: MIcrosoft Blackmail



Speaking of RD, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going 
to pump $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve 
$20,000,000,000.00 per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want 
to dominate the desktop with more that just theO/S and browser. Can't 
anyone slay this beast?

It's 
an evil world in which we live...


  -Original Message-From: Toepke, Kevin M 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  10:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  I 
  view a RD project not as"adding value to thebusiness", 
  buttraining for myself. Everytime I have participated on an RD 
  project I have learned a significant amount and have gained invaluable 
  experience!
  
  If 
  you go in expecting to throw away all of your "work", you will be frustrated. 
  If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in a "real 
  world" setting, then you'll come away enriched by the 
  experience!
  
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 11:54 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this. 
they really suck. 
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing. 
your report ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read. and 6 
months later, they ask the same questions.

the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these 
research projects.

unless you *really* like doing them.

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Inka Bezdziecka 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  11:04 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  Well,
  regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: "Therefore, I support investigating 
  SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word 
  INVESTIGATING. "
  
  What is better than RD projects? At 
  the end one wins no matter what. Knowingmore does not hurt, does 
  it?
  
  inka
  
  
  -Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
  2002 10:23 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
  
Exactly.

In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell 
him "bye-bye now", "no-more-sales-for-you".

Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Yechiel Adar 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
  2002 9:43 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: MIcrosoft 
  Blackmail
  What exactly is your 
problem?
  
  Lets say that you are a factory that sells 
  paper. 
  You need to buy a computer system.
  One supplier also sell printers and the other 
  advocate paperless office.
  All things being equal, which one will you give 
  your business to??
  
  Yechiel AdarMehish
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Thomas 
Jeff 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 
2002 1:13 AM
Subject: OT: MIcrosoft 
Blackmail

This came to our DBA team 
today. I'd appreciate your thoughts. 
I'm not a business guy, 
just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me 
off. Is it common practice by MS? 

  It is important from an 
  Architecture point of view that we understand all the various 
  approaches to "web services" (also known as "grid computing" -- 
  see my recent report). Microsoft's dot Net initiative is 
  their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 
  
  There is a second reason 
  why we might be interested specifically in dot Net. 
  Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 
  Microsoft by [performing 
  certain services], etc. Microsoft has told our management 
  that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will be 
  how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor. 
  Specifically, has the vendor bought in to the dot Net 
  strategy. Now we aren't going to make our global 
  enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point 
  alone, but it's not

ORA-19587

2002-09-26 Thread Gurelei


Hi all:

I'm getting the following errors when trying to
do an arch backup against the database:

ORA-19587: error occurred reading 512 bytes at block
number 1
ORA-27091: skgfqio: unable to queue I/O
IBM AIX RISC System/6000 Error: 2: No such file or
directory
Additional information: 1
ORA-06512: at SYS.DBMS_BACKUP_RESTORE, line 1974
ORA-06512: at line 1
RMAN-06097: text of failing SQL statement: begin :rc
:= sys . dbms_backup_restore . validateArchivedLog (
recid = :recid , stamp = :stamp , fname = :fname ,
thread = :thread , sequence = :seq ,
resetlogs_change = :rstscn , first_change = :lowscn
, blksize = :blksize ) ; end ;

Looks like an archived log is missing. What should I 
do to fix this? Looked at Metalink, but didn't find
anything hepful. Thanks for any help.

Gene

__
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC  Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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RE: DBA place in the business (was RE: DBA work load)


and DDBA, and ODBA, and  DA, and DM, and DWA, and DWM  
... any more?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:37 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Have you gone through what's the difference between an application DBA and
a database DBA? yet?

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

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RE: Metalink problems loading images?

NM...it's back...

Rich

 -Original Message-
 From: Jesse, Rich 
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:19 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: Metalink problems loading images?

 Or do I need to talk with our networking group about the 
 firewall?  This
 link, taken directly from the Metalink My Headlines page, 
 errors out for
 me with could not locate remote server:

 http://gts214.us.oracle.com:8000/images/metalink/usaeng/navbar
 /metalink/nav_
 library_off.gif

 TIA!

 Rich

 --
 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech International, 
 Sussex, WI USA
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Re: ok so i'm bored working on rman scripts

2002-09-26 Thread Tim Gorman




As long as we are sure to acknowledge the authorship of 
Simon Traviglia (sp?), the original author of BOFH...

There are several websites posting the BOFH saga; 
search by the keyword "bofh" on www.google.com to get the correct spelling of 
Simon's last name...

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JOE 
  TESTA 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:17 
  PM
  Subject: OT: ok so i'm bored working on 
  rman scripts
  
  so i took the first 2 stories and put them on 
  
  http://www.oracle-dba.com/bdbafh
  
  nothing pretty, maybe i'll mess with it later today, text only so 
  far.
  
  feel free to submit your part of the on-going saga to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  joe

RE: Degrade a database??

2002-09-26 Thread Deshpande, Kirti


1. Do not use any 8.1.7 specific features after the upgrade.
2. Take a cold backup while at 8.1.7
3. Run the downgrade script from $O_H/rdbms/admin directory (d0800060.sql).

4. Backup 
5. Rollback your changes to all other scripts/files ($O_H, listener file
etc..etc..) 

Best approach: 
Create a test 8.0.6 database, upgrade it to 8.1.7, make and record a few
changes to it. Downgrade it and make sure all the changes are still there.
And you understand what you are doing. 

To CYA even more:  
Call Oracle Support/Log an iTAR and have them send you the exact steps for
such a downgrade :) 


Good luck.

- Kirti  



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello All,

We are in the process of upgrading a database from 8.0.6 to 8.1.7. The
upgrade is not a problem. We have been asked to come out with a fast
rollback strategy in case we have to fall back, say after a week, to the
8.0.6 database with no data loss.  Any fresh ideas?

Thanks
Raj

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RE: Degrade a database??

2002-09-26 Thread Markham, Richard

Title: RE: Degrade a database??





I can't think of any better way to back out of anything other than
a restore from disk or tape.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 2:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Degrade a database??



Hello All,


We are in the process of upgrading a database from 8.0.6 to 8.1.7. The
upgrade is not a problem. We have been asked to come out with a fast
rollback strategy in case we have to fall back, say after a week, to the
8.0.6 database with no data loss. Any fresh ideas?


Thanks
Raj


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Re: DBA place in the business (was RE: DBA work load)

2002-09-26 Thread Mohammad Rafiq


Jared,


My boss is still trying to figure out what I do.  ;)

It happens everywhere with DBA's specially when systems are running without 
any serious issuesbecause of your experience and
pro-activeness. It may happens may be bad marketing by DBA's of their 
work

Regards
Rafiq


Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:17:03 -0800

I've thought for some time now that DBA's are the pragmatist's of IT.

We fit everywhere, and nowhere.

My boss is still trying to figure out what I do.  ;)

Jared






Robson, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  09/26/2002 02:13 AM
  Please respond to ORACLE-L


 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 cc:
 Subject:DBA place in the business (was RE: DBA work load)



I've found the thread on DBA workload valuable and interesting. It
endorses
points made repeatedly over the past years, basically the highly variable
nature of the job.

This variability is giving us a small problem. Our dba work (shared
between
two of us) tends to function in the background, and of course because we
do
it so damn well (!!), our impact on the running of the organisation is
pretty low. Kind of 'reverse exception' effect, if you will.

There is now a desire to formalise the role of the dba function within the
organisation, and nobody has the first idea of how to define, in an
organisational / structural sense just how the dba role slots in. I'm
talking about organsiational charts, herarchies etc, that sort of thing.
Not
just across the org, but particularly within the IT domain too.
Specifically, dba impacts from the low-level hardware side, right up to
application development, with everything in between. And that already
spans
several existing lines of management responsibility. Our problem has added
spice as we are (trying) to operate a matrix management system, which
repeatedly throws up intriguing political dimensions.

Anybody ever been down this particular route?

Any thoughts much appreciated,

peter
edinburgh


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Re: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread ltiu


Nothing wrong with dominating as long as the rule the better product 
wins is followed (i.e. not through foul play like forcing Dell or HP to 
bundle MSOffice or else they can't sell MSWindows with their PC's).

ltiu

Orr, Steve wrote:

 Speaking of RD, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to 
 pump $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve 
 $20,000,000,000.00 per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like 
 they want to dominate the desktop with more that just the O/S and 
 browser. Can't anyone slay this beast?
  
 It's an evil world in which we live...





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OT: oracle-dba.com up for sale on ebay.com

2002-09-26 Thread JOE TESTA




For those of you who don't know, i've put in place a plan to leave the 
oracle field and move back into the medical field, saying that, i've decided to 
offload the oracle-dba.com domain that i purchased quite a few years ago.

Its on ebay with a starting price of .01 with a reserve price. If 
you're dying to know what the reserve price is, drop me a line.

its item# 2057533249 


joe

[Fwd: [Fwd: RE: Forms 3.0 ; Oracle 8i/9i ; Patch 380665 ; HP-UX 11]]

2002-09-26 Thread Peter Gram


  Hi Kurth

This is from Johannes that is not on the oracle-l mailing list.

I have no knowlegde about patch 380665 but I have a happy customer 
running Forms 3.0 (version Version 3.0.16.12 from the Oracle 7.2.3 
installation CD) in an Oracle 7.2.3 home on Sun Solaris (SunOS 5.7), 
with TWO_TASK set to point at an Oracle 9i instance on another server.

So it can work for sure!

I would imagine that there could be problems with the installation and 
execution of Forms 3.0 on some newer operating systems.



I tried for years to find a patch that would allow Forms 3.0 to work with
Oracle8.x.x. I think there is a path for NT, but none for Unix.

Time to bite the bullet and upgrade to Forms 4.5 or higher.

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 2:59 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello guys,

I am trying to figure out the mystery of Patch 380665, which allows Forms
3.0 to be used with Oracle 8.1.7

I have a few questions

1. Does this patch exist or is it just a myth?
2. Is this a Database patch or Forms patch?
3. How to get this patch?

I would really appreciate if any of ull have travelled this path of trying
to make Forms 3.0 work with Oracle 8i.

Thanks
Mandar

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:34 AM
To: Mandar A. Ghosalkar


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due to the server being down or some other network problem.  Please contact 
 
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smime.p7s
Description: application/pkcs7-signature

oracle-dba.com domain

2002-09-26 Thread JOE TESTA




email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] as I'll be out 
of office and away from this acct for a few days.

joe

Re: OT: oracle-dba.com up for sale on ebay.com

2002-09-26 Thread ltiu


What's the reserve price?

ltiu

JOE TESTA wrote:

 For those of you who don't know, i've put in place a plan to leave the 
 oracle field and move back into the medical field, saying that, i've 
 decided to offload the oracle-dba.com domain that i purchased quite a 
 few years ago.
  
 Its on ebay with a starting price of .01 with a reserve price.  If 
 you're dying to know what the reserve price is, drop me a line.
  
 its item#  2057533249
  
  
 joe
  




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RE: oracle-dba.com up for sale on ebay.com

2002-09-26 Thread Paula_Stankus




I would like to know.

  -Original Message-From: JOE TESTA 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 
  4:11 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  OT: oracle-dba.com up for sale on ebay.com
  For those of you who don't know, i've put in place a plan to leave the 
  oracle field and move back into the medical field, saying that, i've decided 
  to offload the oracle-dba.com domain that i purchased quite a few years 
  ago.
  
  Its on ebay with a starting price of .01 with a reserve price. If 
  you're dying to know what the reserve price is, drop me a line.
  
  its item# 2057533249 
  
  
  joe

RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail


Yeah, I saw that one and thought how hard can that be?. Just raise license
fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do that
and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
 



Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Speaking of RD, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to pump
$3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate the
desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
beast?
 
It's an evil world in which we live...
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I view a RD project not as adding value to the business, but training for
myself. Everytime I have participated on an RD project I have learned a
significant amount and have gained invaluable experience!
 
If you go in expecting to throw away all of your work, you will be
frustrated. If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in
a real world setting, then you'll come away enriched by the experience!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really
suck.  
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report
ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later,
they ask the same questions.
 
the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research
projects.
 
unless you *really* like doing them.
 

Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: Therefore, I support
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word
INVESTIGATING. 
 
What is better  than RD projects? At the end one wins no matter what.
Knowing more does not hurt, does it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Exactly.
 
In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him bye-bye
now, no-more-sales-for-you.
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
 
Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM


This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not
a business 
guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common practice 
by MS? 

It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
understand all the various approaches to web services (also known as grid
computing -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 

There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 

Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will
be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our
global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone,
but it's not something we are going to ignore either.

Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 


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-- 
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ODBC Security Problems

2002-09-26 Thread MacGregor, Ian A.


Do you use ODBC to  download data to say, EXCEL?  The following will be of interest

http://www.ciac.org/ciac/bulletins/m-127.shtml


Ian Macgregor
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Hand

2002-09-26 Thread Freeman, Robert


I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!
 
Robert
 

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

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RE: Degrade a database??

2002-09-26 Thread Henry Poras


and set COMPATIBLE = 8.0.6 to keep out new features.

Henry

-Original Message-
Kirti
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 3:18 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


1. Do not use any 8.1.7 specific features after the upgrade.
2. Take a cold backup while at 8.1.7
3. Run the downgrade script from $O_H/rdbms/admin directory (d0800060.sql).

4. Backup 
5. Rollback your changes to all other scripts/files ($O_H, listener file
etc..etc..) 

Best approach: 
Create a test 8.0.6 database, upgrade it to 8.1.7, make and record a few
changes to it. Downgrade it and make sure all the changes are still there.
And you understand what you are doing. 

To CYA even more:  
Call Oracle Support/Log an iTAR and have them send you the exact steps for
such a downgrade :) 


Good luck.

- Kirti  



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello All,

We are in the process of upgrading a database from 8.0.6 to 8.1.7. The
upgrade is not a problem. We have been asked to come out with a fast
rollback strategy in case we have to fall back, say after a week, to the
8.0.6 database with no data loss.  Any fresh ideas?

Thanks
Raj

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RE: Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery


Since I plan to buy the book, I would be very interested in previewing it.
Thanks

Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 3:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hand


I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!
 
Robert
 

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

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-- 
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread dgoulet


Dennis,

Actually migrating to StarOffice is pretty simple.  We would have done so a
year ago, but the mail package we're using would not budge.  Damn Lotus.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   9/26/2002 12:37 PM

Yeah, I saw that one and thought how hard can that be?. Just raise license
fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do that
and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
 



Dennis Williams
DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Speaking of RD, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to pump
$3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate the
desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
beast?
 
It's an evil world in which we live...
 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I view a RD project not as adding value to the business, but training for
myself. Everytime I have participated on an RD project I have learned a
significant amount and have gained invaluable experience!
 
If you go in expecting to throw away all of your work, you will be
frustrated. If you go in expecting to learn about a technology or product in
a real world setting, then you'll come away enriched by the experience!

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


you obviously have not wasted enough time with tasks like this.  they really
suck.  
you end up spinning your wheels for a week, all for nothing.  your report
ends up on somebody's shelf someplace - never read.  and 6 months later,
they ask the same questions.
 
the biggest task that a body needs to learn is how to duck these research
projects.
 
unless you *really* like doing them.
 

Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Well,
regardless of MS tactics, the last paragraph reads: Therefore, I support
investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot Net, but I emphasize the word
INVESTIGATING. 
 
What is better  than RD projects? At the end one wins no matter what.
Knowing more does not hurt, does it?
 
inka
 
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:23 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Exactly.
 
In other words, thank the MS-sales-dweeb for his time, and tell him bye-bye
now, no-more-sales-for-you.
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 9:43 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


What exactly is your problem?
 
Lets say that you are a factory that sells paper. 
You need to buy a computer system.
One supplier also sell printers and the other advocate paperless office.
All things being equal, which one will you give your business to??
 
Yechiel Adar
Mehish

- Original Message - 
To: Multiple recipients of list  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ORACLE-L 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:13 AM


This came to our DBA team today.I'd appreciate your thoughts.   I'm not
a business 
guy, just a plain old Apps DBA, but this really pisses me off.   Is it
common practice 
by MS? 

It is important from an Architecture point of view that we
understand all the various approaches to web services (also known as grid
computing -- see my recent report).  Microsoft's dot Net initiative is
their approach to this grand overarching software strategy. 

There is a second reason why we might be interested specifically in
dot Net.   Subsidiary XYZ earns $xyz a year for us from 

Microsoft by [performing certain services], etc.  Microsoft has told
our management that one of their criteria for evaluating their vendors will
be how good of a MS customer is the potential vendor.  Specifically, has the
vendor  bought in to the dot Net strategy.  Now we aren't going to make our
global enterprise solutions strategy decisions based upon that point alone,
but it's not something we are going to ignore either.

Therefore, I support investigating SQL server, Biz Talk, and dot
Net, but I emphasize the word INVESTIGATING. 


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Hand

2002-09-26 Thread Rick_Cale



I say post it. We are the benefactors. If the list owner says go for it
then post it anyway regardless as I know many folks would be very grateful.

Rick



   

Freeman,  

Robert  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
Robert_Freema   cc:   

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Subject: Should I post a preview of 
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery 
Sent by:  Hand 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

om 

   

   

09/26/2002 

04:30 PM   

Please respond 

to ORACLE-L

   

   





I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter
from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or
make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let
me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!

Robert


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.



--
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--
Author: Freeman, Robert
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).




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RE: Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery Hand

2002-09-26 Thread Bonnie Finke


Robert,

Please I would like to preview it.  I am a big fan of RMAN.

Bonnie Finke
Globitech Inc.
Sherman, TX

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 3:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Hand


I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!
 
Robert
 

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

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Re:Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recov

2002-09-26 Thread dgoulet


Go ahead and post it.  If we don't like it, haven't a clue why, we'll flame you.
 Simple?? *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Freeman; Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   9/26/2002 12:30 PM

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!
 
Robert
 

Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Selecting Next X Values From Dual

2002-09-26 Thread Gary Chambers


All...

Is there a method by which I can select the next x values from a
sequence from dual?  I've searched Google and OraFAQs.com, but I can't
seem to make any hits on my search request.  TIA

Gary Chambers

//-
// Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix
// 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886
// 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager)
// Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft
//-

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Re: Should I post a preview of Oracle9i RMAN Backup and

2002-09-26 Thread Gene Sais


I agree, post it.  If someone doesn't want it, they can hit the ol delete key.  But it 
is truly up to the list-owner.
Gene

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/26/02 05:33PM 

I say post it. We are the benefactors. If the list owner says go for it
then post it anyway regardless as I know many folks would be very grateful.

Rick



   

Freeman,  

Robert  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
Robert_Freema   cc:   

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Subject: Should I post a preview of 
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery 
Sent by:  Hand 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

om 

   

   

09/26/2002 

04:30 PM   

Please respond 

to ORACLE-L

   

   





I was wondering if anyone would be interested in me posting one chapter
from
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery
by Mathew Hart and Myself. I don't want to just force it on you all, or
make
it seem like a marketing ploy. So, if there
are enough folks interested in me doing so, I will, and if you object let
me
know and I will not (as long as the list owner
doesn't mind too). Please let me know guys!

Robert


Robert G. Freeman - Oracle OCP
Oracle Database Architect
CSX Midtier Database Administration
Author of several Oracle books you can find on Amazon.com!


The avalanche has begun, It is too late for the pebbles to vote.



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RE: RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail

2002-09-26 Thread Scott . Shafer


Then there's OpenOffice.  Very nice.  http://www.openoffice.org - I use it
regularly and have had no problems.

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:28 PM
 To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject:  Re:RE: MIcrosoft Blackmail
 
 Dennis,
 
 Actually migrating to StarOffice is pretty simple.  We would have done
 so a
 year ago, but the mail package we're using would not budge.  Damn Lotus.
 
 Dick Goulet
 
 Reply Separator
 Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date:   9/26/2002 12:37 PM
 
 Yeah, I saw that one and thought how hard can that be?. Just raise
 license
 fees again. What are corporations going to do? Switch to StarOffice? Do
 that
 and all the users will insist that they much have pure MS.
  
 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:57 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 Speaking of RD, what about the eWeek article about how M$ is going to
 pump
 $3,000,000,000.00 into MS Office? They want to achieve $20,000,000,000.00
 per year in revenue on MSOffice alone. Seems like they want to dominate
 the
 desktop with more that just the O/S and browser. Can't anyone slay this
 beast?
  
 It's an evil world in which we live...
 
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Re: Selecting Next X Values From Dual

2002-09-26 Thread Stephane Faroult


Gary Chambers wrote:
 
 All...
 
 Is there a method by which I can select the next x values from a
 sequence from dual?  I've searched Google and OraFAQs.com, but I can't
 seem to make any hits on my search request.  TIA
 
 Gary Chambers
 
 //-
 // Lucent Technologies GIO/Unix
 // 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886
 // 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager)
 // Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft
 //-
 

Gary,

You do not have to use dual.
   
select myseq.nexval
from dictionary
where rownum  x + 1

can return the x next values for a fairly high value of x.

-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
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linux and Oracle Apps jinit

2002-09-26 Thread Ron Thomas



Has anyone found a way to use linux as a client to Oracle Applications?  The self 
service stuff runs
just fine but the Oracle Forms requires that damnable jinit.  This is the only problem 
left before I
can give MS the big Heave Ho.

Ron Thomas
Hypercom, Inc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Each new user of a new system uncovers a new class of bugs. -- Kernighan

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Deadlocks on lack of Foreign key indexes ...

2002-09-26 Thread Johnson, Michael


Does anyone consider it essential to put indexes
on Foreign Keys or is it just an option to safeguard 
against the rare possiblity of a deadlock ?
Is this possibility real and have you seen it happen ?
I am one who does not want to create a foreign index
as their is already one wih a leading column which
makes this foreign key index redundant.
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NETIQ monitoring tool for server and Oracle

2002-09-26 Thread Anubha Jalsingh


Anyone using NETIQ for monitoring Windows and  Unix servers. ?  How is 
it compare to OEM tools ?

I will appreciate your comments and inputs.

thanks
Manmohan.




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Re: Don't leave