empty. this comes from newbies seeing undef $foo and then some do undef
@bar and then think defined @bar makes sense. so maybe there is a new
reason to support defined on arrays and hashes but i think it should be
disallowed.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com http:/
tion.org/perl5/index.cgi?selfgol
from that page:
* Its a quine
(typo - should be It's - uri)
* Turns other programs into quines
* Plays Conway's Game of Life
* Animates a marquee banner
It does so without importing any modules, and without using a single if,
unless, while,
t is a core part of p6 and not some regex
lib.
so you can talk about this amazing feature and be assured that the
audience will be amazed. :)
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com http://www.sysarch.com --
- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Tr
le.)
try that again with my example above. in p5 the structure would be this:
my $c = [1, [4, 5], 3] ;
how should .perl serialize that so that eval will give back the same
structure? unless () are nesting and not flattening then you can't do it
without a \() which is longer (and ug
ith .perl do you want the current dumper output of a anon array or your
list of values? when serializing a tree, you must get the ref version so
that is the common and default usage. your version isn't DWIMmy there at
all.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com
;
@sorted = @pairs.sort(.v) ;
and if i am correct, no assignment would mean in-place sorting which is
wanted.
so you could default to sorting pairs by keys and not bother too many.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com http://www.sysarch.com --
- Perl Code Revie
needs to be a full sort signature of the kind
damian proposed and we have both built in different modules. there is
plenty to steal from there so don't go reinventing this wheel just
yet. :)
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com http://www.sysarch.com --
- P
e raw dir data
which will likely look like garbage unless you have the correct
filesystem c structures to decode it. so you must have some way to
designate to the open/new that this is a dir.
the whole issue of portable paths is another problem but i can't address
that.
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttm
may be of use to any
implementors of perl6's sort. and it has an old (prize winner at TPC4)
article on this topic that may be of some interest. and it only won a
technical award because damian withdrew as he was the winner the
previous two years in a row! :)
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman
also in Perl6::Sort
(which is damian's).
so you have not discovered something new in perl or perl6 regarding
sorting. it has been covered and in depth but never properly integrated
into the p6 docs.
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- u...@stemsystems.com http://www.sysarch.com
dle arbitrary size
and precision, and wants to take it over, let me know. i already have
add/subtract working and the designs for * and / are there. just needs
more coding in c. i don't have the time, focus and incentive to work on
it. a fun and smallish project for anyone with the right inter
ead which inspired me to respond. note that i replied to the lists
as well directly to you. it was a purely informational post for the perl
6 community.
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sysarch.com --
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st at uri AT perlhunter.com. for more info
on the perl college go to:
http://perlhunter.com/college.html
thanx,
uri, dean of the perl college.
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Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sysarch.com --
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use of it... :)
i will donate to get larry a new cat. in fact we can probably find a
free stray or extra kitten somewhere near him. will this make perl 6
happen before christmas?
:-)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sysarch.com --
- Perl Archite
es a block, indents and else clauses. something like this in
p6 (just your code edited):
die "Something exists!" if $.something ;
$.something = UsefulData.new;
i don't like unnecessary blocks and indents if i can help it. unless
with else is very confusin
im way). i have never felt the need for super smart
iterators so i can change looping over lines to looping over a
dir. maybe you might have a set of filenames in file vs a dir of
names. but i just don't run into that need. sometimes mappings like that
are just overkill IMO.
enough from me on
ems. mapping that to a text file of lines doesn't work for me.
this may all be obvious stuff but i think it deserves mentioning. if
dirs mapped well onto file handles they would have been mapped that way
long ago in the OS. in 30+ years that hasn't happened afaik.
uri
--
Uri Guttma
if it is
called rename as a hash method it is different than rename as a function
to rename a file so there is no ambiguity.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer
sense your mad scientist brain across the big
waters. there ain't enough aluminum foil to protect us all! :)
uri
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tarted. if you
want to submit entries do that too.
thanx,
uri
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ck the p6 docs!
sign up and post your ideas at:
http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?SynopsisEdit
(i should have called it DocAthon. maybe i will rename it)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
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I have proposed a synopsis edit hackathon subproject at YAPC::NA. read
my ideas at:
http://yapcchicago.org/wiki/index.cgi?SynopsisEdit
feel free to edit and add your own comments.
thanx,
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
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dex.cgi?mode=view&album=/pix/Julian
so when does he get his commit bits? :)
congrats, grandpa!
uri
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we should have both. and i think in most cases you won't
see many explicit or as they will be implied by the
whitespace in the rule/term/whatever that has skipping enabled.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
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x27;match this now'. but i think it is good style
to mark these as to what you mean and not let the DWIM rule for you. but
then i also rarely use $_ in p5 so i would be using ~~ as i use =~ now
and that always means match so the m wouldn't be needed for
clarification. but the way p6 use
go into more explanation
with examples than others. i would like to see it more consistant at
that level.
thanx,
uri
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dawning of your dot.age?
i couldn't resist! :)
uri
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or (as they do in Perl 5), there will be a C<.reset> method on the h
dangling 'h'.
a> +hash object to reset the iterator explicitly.)
uri, the very punishing grammar nazi.
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ut 'routine' or sub (or whatever we call
those upper case special subs - do we have a generic name for them?)
after C.
uri
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intrinsic iterator (as they do in Perl 5), there will be a
C<.reset> method on the hash object to reset the iterator
explicitly.)
is Hash the same as Hash object? i know %hash is both but is it ok to
change the name in mid paragraph like that??
just the usual minor cleanup o
>>>>> "AT" == Audrey Tang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AT> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> one of these days when i have tuits of large circumference, i will do a
>> nit pass over as much of the A/E/S as i can handle before my brain
>> explo
ting skill before those docs are 'released'. some of the
concepts are so new to so many and are bleeding edge that the wording
used has to be extra clean of nits and such stuff as dangling pronouns
and other common flaws of technical writing.
speaking of bleeding edge? what do you call th
When cast into an array, you can access all the positional
arguments; Into a hash, all named arguments; Into a scalar, the
invocant; Into code, into slurpy nameless block.
uri
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>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz writes:
>>>>> "Uri" == Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Uri> i will let damian handle this one (if he sees it). but an idea would be
Uri> to allow some form ofkey extraction via a closure
>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz writes:
>>>>> "Uri" == Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Uri> sorting in p6 is not at all like in p5. instead of coding up an explicit
Uri> comparison code block and duplicating all the k
fted as is. so it is
more a feature to add to shift than to undef.
uri
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need to
force certain values to the top or bottom of sorts and this would make
it very easy to do.
so again, i am on the side of leaving undef's default behavior alone and
using a stricture to get your desirec behavior.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
ing but it should be a
stricture. it is not a good idea for default as it ruins
autovivification. also it would ruin many one liners and short scripts
which don't even use regular strict. perl's ability to dwim undef and
not carp or croak is a good default. just use pragmas to make it
str
>>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LW> And if I were Jewish I'd've said "Oy vey" many times over. :-)
or if you were a lazy jewish perl6 hacker you would code:
say "Oy Vey!" for 1 .. ;
:)
iven larry's stretchable imagination i don't think
this mnemonic would hurt anyone. you just need to know some computer
history. :)
uri
--
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tics that are sure to make some large fraction
of us very mad. perl has its style and that it _ for word
separation. the evil studly caps is used for module names only (where it
does seem to work better than _ would. or maybe we are just so used to
it by now). trying to change that in a sc
thod.
so it sounds like to me these are methods private to this class. they
can't found by any other class (via inheritance). so what is the
external sub interface for? we can see the need for private worker
methods and even p5 has a convention of marking such subs with a leading
_.
uri
-
alf empty" for a partially instantiated object.
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
i think you need some immediate mental help. please step back from the
keyboard before you commit such a sin again. the next time, i will ask
gloria to stick you with a knitting needle.
is the smiley :) or (: ?
uri
-
ERY with an advanced technology.
and that excerpt also means that p6 macros are not done in a
preprocessing pass but at normal compile time as soon as the macro call
is fully parsed. so a text returning macro would run and the compiler
will replace the text of the parsed macro call and start repar
>> Not quite. Lispish macros, that is, macros that let you look at what
>> you're expanding.
SL> To further expand on this, they will be AST-manipulating macros (LISP
SL> style) rather than text-replacing macros (C style).
my impression is that both styles are su
.
thanx,
uri
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be
parsed as if it were ( b => 2 ). the point is how pairs in an array are
splatted or not to names args. and if i get it right, *hash( @args ) is
what is needed to convert an array of pairs to be used as named params.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stems
ould work fine here. i don't see the benefit of the
extra @.
SC> sub returns_an_array { ... }
SC> foo( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ); # call the sub, view the result as a
SC> hash, and splat that
where is the hash? wouldn't you want %{} in your system? and %{} derefs
a hash an
>>>>> "LP" == Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LP> On 10/9/05, Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "IB" == Ingo Blechschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
IB> sub foo ($a) {...}
>
foo( *bar() ) # i would expect $a == 1
i think i covered most/all of the variations. but this needs to be
hammered down for all of them.
thanx,
uri
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it makes it hard to search for, you limit it to
only one thing that can use that letter, it isn't always easy to
remember what a given letter is, etc. keys and values are short enough
and read much better. kv works because keyvalues is clunky and too
long. i wouldn't have minded
ask ~~ @Larry {
say 'you are not in @Larry' ;
}
i think i am getting the syntax right.
also i think it should be %Larry since there is no inherent order in the
members and all of them are randomly located. but @Larry is easier to
say out loud.
:)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [
) and
some optional ones can be on the right. so marking those optional ones
makes more sense. this is all huffman stuff IMO.
uri
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>>>>> "DS" == David Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DS> On Jul 27, 2005, at 6:18 PM, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> this thingy should encompass all about this perl and the world it
>> is in and the shell env is part of that.
DS> How about *
>>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LW> On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 04:27:15PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote:
LW> : then why not name it something like *?ENV (not to be confused with the
LW> : shell/exec env which is still %ENV i assume)?
env which is still %ENV i assume)? then under that there are
methods/hash entries like OS, VM, etc. it is the sum of all the
(reasonably) known external things about this perl. OS seems too
specific as does VM. they should just be subparts of the full env. this
is also more like an intelligent Config.
use self "^."
LW> use self "i."
LW> use self "o."
LW> use self "¤."
LW> use self "me."
LW> use self "self."
LW> use self "this."
LW> Did I leave anyone out?
us
; to the Parrot and Perl 6 project.
SV> Three cheers for Dan!
hear! hear!!
uri
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>>>>> "w" == wolverian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
w> On Wed, May 25, 2005 at 07:07:02PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> please don't use <== for simple assignments as it will confuse too many
>> newbies and auch. it (and its sister
nt prececences of =
and <== which allows dropping of parens with the latter. i don't
consider that so important a win as to be used often. and they are at
equal huffman levels as the =() is matched in length by <==.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsys
p6 pdl yet? they may not need much with multi-dim ops,
slices, hyper and reduce all built in! also with type int (patform
ints), they can get the dense storage needed (but losing any dimensional
flexibility).
uri
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diom
like ||= is now.
for those single ops it reads pretty well. if you choose to use it with
multiple levels of hyper/reduce, it should be well commented.
uri
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think that's exactly the same.
>>
>> What does \b mean again? I assume it's no longer backspace?
PRM> For as long as I can remember \b has meant "word boundary" in
PRM> regular expressions. :-) :-)
except in char classes where it gets its backsp
are
more for real parsing (which split is not intended to do) so use a
parsing rule for that.
also note the coding style rule (i think randal created it) which is to
use split when you want to throw things away (the delimiters) and m//
when you want to keep thinks.
uri
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>>>>> "DC" == Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
DC> Uri Guttman wrote:
DC> Sure. Just as $42 is a shorthand for $/[42], so too $ is a
DC> shorthand for $/.
>> but then what about the different index bases for $42 and $/[42]? i
but then what about the different index bases for $42 and $/[42]? i
don't think that has been resolved (nor has mixing the $1.1 and $1[1]
syntaxes).
uri
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le cp { $lastcmd:=(cp) $:=[ ]+
$:= }
DC> sub lastcmd { return $lastcmd }
DC> }
DC> while shift ~~ m// {
DC> say "From: @{$}";
DC> say " To: $";
DC> }
since files and dirs are internal aliases (their
.1 and $1[0] as being
the two styles. you must use literal integers with the former and it is
1 based. you can use any expressions with the latter and it is 0
based. by allowing $1[$j].1 you save only 1 char over $1[$j][0] and
would cause major confusion IMO.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL
he hardship of the index
syntax isn't a big deal as it should be rarely needed.
just my $1.02. :)
uri
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s.
remember at all times when discussing i/o for p6 that the goals are to
support all forms of i/o in a consistant manner. it is much more than
just a polymorphic open or io::all. they only address one aspect of i/o
(initiating an i/o request) and that skips read/write/fcntl/event loops
\/
J> @foo ==> zip <== @bar
J> /\
J> ||
J> ||
J> @xyzzy
you are brainfucking me! stop it now!!
:)
uri
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the input makes it a factorial but
the general case would be a product. not that what var names you choose
matters but i think it would be clearer if used as a real example in
some future docs.
uri
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>>>>> "AS" == Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
AS> On Mon, 2005-05-02 at 22:51, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
LW> multi sub opensocket (
LW> Str
have a timeout which can be used too. i think a 'wait' func should
be in the language as well as a basic event loop type of thing. they
should be standard (at worst core modules) so we don't get different
incompatible event loops and related stuff.
'nuff for now.
uri
--
Uri
>>>>> "MF" == Matt Fowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
MF> All~
MF> On 5/2/05, Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
LW> multi sub openso
ld be in a module but they
are just simple wrappers around the system calls.
i would prefer if opensocket's signature were fully fleshed out with
named args (with some defaults). just passing in an extra list is a poor
api as there are so many socket options. just read PBP (when it comes
out) for
ded for
working junction semantics. larry has hinted that autothreading could be
parallel underneath if that is supported. maybe choosing the desired
implementation would be a pragma.
uri
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should be an event object with those (and other)
methods. this implies a core Event class to handle this common stuff.
and integrating with other event loops (GUI ones in particular) is
handled by creating Event::EventLoopofChoice wrapper modules with the
same api as the core perl event class.
re
ort this in Perl 6?
ZL> $hash->{E1}->{E2}->...->{En} = 1;
i think perl6 plans to have a way to do this. there is a dim operator to
set dimensions. so it would be something like this:
%hash{ dim @a }
or is $hash has a hash ref:
$hash{ dim @a }
i cc'ed p6l s
* of a value
LW> where you expected one. In Perl 6, undef is the Bearer of Bad News.
oy! i feel the pain of the late night phone call. :)
uri
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de):
sub return_error { return but error }
my @a = return_error() ;
is @a empty or what? how do you see the error in @a?
i just don't like seeing undef used for error handling as it has too
many other uses (even if i did it in stem). just make undef a scalar
value and not a functio
uly make an
aggregate undefined (and i still don't see a need for that, emptying it
is all that i ever think is needed).
in my world undef is a scalar value and nothing else. how do you see it
in p6?
uri
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--Perl C
>>>>> "MD" == Matt Diephouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
MD> Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LW> oct and hex are arguably misnamed, since most fu
be it's not worth fixing.
from_oct, from_hex which state what they do? or a more general
from_base( 16, $hex )? and that could be curried into from_hex().
uri
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t;Perl in a Nutshell" calls it
"vaguely
LW> : deprecated". Can we remove the vagueness and deprcate it completely?
LW> Yes, please.
i have seen p5 newbies ask about using it. oy!!
uri
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--P
with parrot's
event core (which is designed by dan). anyhow this area needs to be
addressed from the api point of view and then it can be decided where it
resides, in a module (best bet IMO) or core language.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ht
streamlines
AP> the thought process."]
it just proves that guido doesn't like to think more than he has too :).
uri
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junction has are set in stone. Allowing some form of lazy
RA> list to add values at will seems a bit counter to me. But if @Cabal
RA> think it's okay to have lazy junctions, I won't argue with them.
lazy only when you can actually cheat IMO.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMA
>>>>> "LW" == Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
LW> On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 01:55:07AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
LW> : why not leave it as $?SUB but it is an object and you use the .name
LW> : method?
LW> Uh, yeah. Obviously
and $?SUBNAME would more
LW> reliably be just the short name. Maybe we also need a way to get
LW> the long name explicitly.
why not leave it as $?SUB but it is an object and you use the .name
method? this way you won't clutter the namespace and you can add more
methods like .sig
ign new ones as needed?)
IB> that's really convenient, but what will the following code do?
IB> my $x = (a => 42); # $x is a Pair.
IB> $x = 13; # Is $x now the Pair (a => 13) or
IB> # the Int 13?
$x is 13 now as you assigned
>>>>> "PRM" == Patrick R Michaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
PRM> On Fri, Feb 25, 2005 at 12:54:20AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
>> >>>>> "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
RA> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>> "RA" == Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
RA> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> that fixes Stéphane's problem with my yall proposal. and yall solves the
>> unary my problem. :)
>>
>>
RA> Stop misusing "y'al
;> >
>> > $x, $y = $y, $x;
>> >
>> $x, $y <== $y, $x;
LP> Heh, oh yeah. I guess I wasn't so off suggesting <-, then.
LP> Well, there's half the problem. Now we just need to determine if
LP> 'my' can leave its post
hem
and the brooklynese variants: dese, dose, dem. :)
southern variant: y'all or yall.
maybe yall is expanded as yall mine!
yall $a, $b, $c = 1 .. 3 ;
larry?
uri
PS if this gets in, i will stop being so bigoted against southern accents! :)
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
PROTECTED], @z);
DC> Which would again be more obvious as:
DC> @x = func($a, every(@y), @z);
i agree. i like the names there as it reads better.
DC> PS: I'll be away for the rest of the week, but will happily continue to
DC> argue when I return. ;-)
so
\xaQW"' | od -c
000 \n Q W
perl -e'print "\777"' | od -c
000 307 277
i don't know what is happening there.
so if you have no valid value chars or are out of range (as with \777),
then i would want to know as i made a mistake. leading pad 0
x | $y # set(1,2,3,5,7,9)
>> $x & $y # set(1,3)
>> $x - $y # set(2)
>> !$x # set(none(2));-)
NC> I don't understand this last line, even given the context of the
NC> preceding three. Why is it none of 2, rather than none of
uot;, since they're already allowed
>> to use junctions, as long as they don't try to observe them. :-)
DW> To quote Noah, what's a qubit?
RGGTTT
:)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.stemsystems.com
--Per
ike a classic perl5 closure and would need to be
cloned. what about the fact that for() will be called in effectively a
void context? a classic closure makes sense only when the code ref is
saved or possible called immediately via (p5) ->. for() is called
immediately but with a different
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