Some time ago, I had trouble with a fuse value of 1A. This was interpreted
as a
HEX NUMBER means 26 or so. The work around was to name the fuse 1.0AMP.
Try if it works with different net names.
Georg
-Urspr ngliche Nachricht-
Von: Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Freitag, 16.
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's to messy. Perhaps I'm not setting
it up properly. What do you people do?
Tim Fifield
* * * * * * * * * * *
Does anyone know a simple way of calculating copper track size (in, mm),
when you know the amount of copper (in, ounces), and the current flow
(in, Amps)??
I've never had to do any high current circuits before, so any help much
appreciated.
Steve
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I have been using Protel99SE now about
two years and have not never used autorouter.
I try is once and end up that same conclusion as Tim Fifield
PS. I am a new guy i this forum
Sincerely,
Juha Pajunen, Hw Engineer
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:
I don't even use it for small designs. I tried it once
and found it useless. Admittedly I do strictly 2 layer
designs. It might be useful for multilayer designs though.
Rene
--
http://www.ibrtses.com
Tim Fifield wrote:
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB
Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs
Temperature Rise Above Ambient
For 1/2 oz Copper
Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width
1 AMP 45C (113F) .013
1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025
2 AMP 45C (113F) .033
3 AMP 45C (113F) .050
4 AMP 45C (113F) .073
5 AMP 45C (113F) .110
6 AMP 45C (113F) .125
7
How large is large for you? I use the 99SE autorouter for my large
designs, but not for small designs. It takes a lot of practice and
trial/error to figure out how to set up the autorouting rules for each
board. And each board may take different rules. You just have to have
patience.
My company has lots of money so they bought Specctra 10.0. Our designs
aren't physically that big or dense so I still prefer to route by hand for
best results. Plus I don't really do that many boards in a year. Specctra
performance is great but you have to learn all about DO files.
I was not at
When placing pads you can select toplayer, bottomlayer or multilayer.
Just adjust it.
Rene
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote:
hello,
i just finished a board that had an connector with little smt-type
feet, some that contacted with the top, some that contacted with
the bottom of the board. i
Hi Tim,
we route large designs with SPECCTRA.
Gisbert Auge
N.A.T. GmbH
Tim Fifield
I do remember seeing a few connectors like this, I believe they were
in the legacy PCB libraries. I specifically remember seeing a DB9 SMT
connector, somewhere.
I'd use one of these as a model, and morf it into whatever you need.
I don't think it is anything more than creating a component
he writes articles for PCD magazine. Here is there web sight www.pcdmag.com
very helpful.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:05 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
That's very helpful,
- Original Message -
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Using 3D
... those
On 11/14/01 I asked:
I would like to use a 3D rendering of a prototype PCB for a project
proposal. The rendering displays abnormal looking components at custom
footprint locations. This is completely unacceptable for a professional
proposal. Using 99SE SP6, can anyone tell me how I can generate
What does didn't want to cooperate mean? That you couldn't flip it? You
should be able to have any mix of top, bottom, and multi pads on any given
footprint. Seems pretty simple--just modify the pad properties in the pcb
library editor.
-Original Message-
From: Robison Michael R CNIN
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote:
hello,
i just finished a board that had an connector with little smt-type
feet, some that contacted with the top, some that contacted with
the bottom of the board. i played with getting a footprint with top
and bottom pads, but it didn't seem to want to
I've never have used autorouters. I'm from the old school, where I cut my
teeth with hand taping.
Sean James
PCB Designer
Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc.
102 Grove Street
Worcester, MA 01605
(TEL) 508.754.4858 x33
(FAX) 413.541.6170
- Original Message -
From: Tim Fifield [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Try Pcbtemp.exe at Utracad design its free and very usefull.
www.ultracad.com/calc.htm
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:07 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)
Subject: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Does anyone know a simple
I've never have used autorouters. I'm from the old school, where I cut my
teeth with hand taping.
Ouch, that must have hurt! Personally, I have my dentist do my dental work.
;-)
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: http://www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
Ivan,
what buttons do you push, i.e. what rules did you find significant playing
around with? Just being curious ...
Regards,
Gisbert Auge
N.A.T. GmbH
On 11/15/01 Altium responded:
It is not possible to manually define the 3D model that Protel will use to
represent your custom made components at this time. There are third-party
tools that may be helpful in this task. The companies that I am aware of
that offer these tools are .
I've never have used autorouters. I'm from the old school, where I cut my
teeth with hand taping.
Fortunately, I never had to use the mylar tape layout. But I have manually
routed quite a few boards. Until the Protel AR came along, I never did
autorouting, because the few autorouters I had
Tim Fifield wrote:
Just curious... Does anybody use the 99SE autorouter for large PCB designs?
Do the majority of board designers do everything manually? I don't even
bother with the autorouter anymore, it's to messy. Perhaps I'm not setting
it up properly. What do you people do?
I have
I'm not at my Protel workstation today, so this is from memory...
I find that your choice of direction bias on the routing layers can make a
big difference. I will try several trial runs with different choices to see
which one has the best results. You should make use of the 45 up, 45 down,
More on the subject of export to Client Spreadsheet/Excel for tabular
edit/update. Hopefully this will clarify for all.
1. Open the schematic (top level sheet if hierarchical).
2. Export to spreadsheet--this runs the client spreadsheet creation wizard.
3. Choose All Off, Part, OK, then check
You can do the same thing with a generic PS driver that comes with
Windoze. Just setup the port as FILE, and it'll cue you for it
everytime you print.
IIRC, you can use Ghostscript to generate PS ?or PDF? as a printer
driver as well.
--
Mark Randol, RF Evaluation Engineer
Motorola SPS, Inc.
At 10:24 PM 11/14/01 -0800, Andrew W. Riley III wrote:
Hello,
i just bought orcad capture 9.2 to do some work for others and although
i don't know the prog very well it does not seem to have the global edit
features
does anyone know about capture?
I don't recall too much about capture,
Ivan,
I'm also interested in what button you push.
Tim.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:29 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Autorouter
Ivan,
what buttons do you push, i.e. what rules did you
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Tim Fifield wrote:
Ivan,
I'm also interested in what button you push.
Same here. I've got Specctra, so I don't care so much about the ARs
inability, but I've just convinced a customer of mine to buy Protel so
they can do their own maintenance of the board I've just done
Edi,
We use:
Sch
PCB
Signal Integ.
CAM Man.
Print.
Database link, not 100% though.
Tim
-Original Message-
From: Edi Im Hof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 2:17 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Protel usage
Hi all
Regarding the questions about 3D
Jason wrote
A schematic entry tool that is missing features and has many bugs.
A PCB system that has missing features and crashes a lot.
An almost useless 3D 'viewer'.
A redundant spreadsheet that tries to emulate Excel.
A badly integrated spice tool
An extensive but disjointed library
I only use the last 4 items on your list.
Sean James
PCB Designer
Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc.
102 Grove Street
Worcester, MA 01605
(TEL) 508.754.4858 x33
(FAX) 413.541.6170
- Original Message -
From: Edi Im Hof [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday,
Regarding the questions about 3D and autorouter, what parts of Protel do
you actually use?
- Schematic YES
- PCB YES
- Powerprint YES
- CAM Manager YES
- Simulator NO, but I may soon. I think this is an important feature.
- Autorouter YES, needs improvement
- 3D Viewer NO, not until it
Warning long post :-)
*However*, if Mr. Hutchinson will watch this list, he may note that those
I have been watching the list since the end of 1999 and have not heard of
even one new feature or, bug fix in Protel99/SE that would improve Maximum's
productivity over P98. This is why I
At 12:04 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
When good folks like Abdul, bless his heart,
assert that Protel is a good value even at $8K, they should keep in mind
that some organizations do more than PCB layout for hire.
Certainly. I don't need simulation, PLD programming, etc. It
At 12:04 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Once one of the Mechs asked what software I used to connect the pads
together on the CAD system. I told him I was using the Bago-router. He
thought I was being serious and asked what the Bago-router was. I replied
It's a 100%
Be thankful you're not trying to program an ADI DSP. I'm having so many
problems with their tools and they cost $5K!!
I was an orcad user too during the V7 period and remember it crashing
constantly, especially when trying to move parts from one library cache to
another. No thanks...
Tony
At 02:47 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Paul Hutchinson wrote:
Warning long post :-)
*However*, if Mr. Hutchinson will watch this list, he may note that those
I have been watching the list since the end of 1999 and have not heard of
even one new feature or, bug fix in Protel99/SE that would
At 02:43 PM 11/16/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
You forgot CAMtastic. I have used it once, not enough to have mastered it,
but it was useful for post-processing and verifying the Gerbers that Protel
produced. I was glad to have it.
To inspect a board with CAMtastic is *really* fast
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote:
hello,
i just finished a board that had an connector with little smt-type
feet, some that contacted with the top, some that contacted with
the bottom of the board. i played with getting a footprint with top
and bottom pads, but it didn't seem to want to
Ted Tontis wrote:
Minimum Conductor Widths For PCBs
Temperature Rise Above Ambient
For 1/2 oz Copper
Amperage Ambient Temperature Conductor Width
1 AMP 45C (113F) .013
1.5 AMP 45C (113F) .025
2 AMP 45C (113F) .033
3 AMP 45C (113F) .050
4 AMP 45C (113F) .073
5 AMP 45C (113F) .110
6 AMP
P
A badly integrated spice tool
Made far worse than it needs to be by an appalling lack of documentation
An extensive but disjointed library (PCB and SCH)
With a very dodgy lack of library component tracking /version control.
Don't forget the outstanding PLD system...
Useful information on copper and temperature calculations
can be found at http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/
Trace Width Calculator at http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl
and references and formula at http://www.aracnet.com/~gpatrick/trace_ref.html
I think there are some
Autorouter?
Whats an autorouter?
You mean you there's something besides black tape and #16 blades?
JaMi Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 6:07 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject: [PEDA] Autorouter
One of the key antagonists of the simulation is actually the quality of
support offered through the ISO9000 library management. I had made reference
in the past to a 'simulation ready' based library team. From what I have
seen in the past, vendor SPICE models are just attached to the library
$1K a year, I'd think Mr. Baggett could afford for a tool rapidly
being improved. Obviously, if it were not being improved, even $1
would be too much!
To me, this is the crux of the matter. Pay your money now and
wait and see what you get for it. An alternative would be put your
$1k into
Schematic, PCB, Powerprint, CAM Mgr, Autorouter, Camtastic (a bit).
PLD I used a bit, but it was easier to switch to Xilinx's tools than to
figure out how to get intermediate files from one to the other. (But it's a
pain using Xilinx's schematic capture.)
-Original Message-
From: Edi Im
Not doing anything too large, but mostly use autorouter, with some manual
pre-routing. 300+ components, SMT thru-hole, 4-layer, mixed
analog+digital. On the dense side (for me), 1200 pads on 5x7 board -- I'm
happy to let the autorouter find a way! (Usually gets it about 98%.)
-Original
- Schematic- Aside from the library problems I quite like this
program, it gets the job done is reasonably intuitive to use.
- PCB - Beats mylar, it gets the job done the invoices paid.
The later improvements in 99SE such as rooms classes etc are great ( if a
little
Don't get me wrong, I know how to make it
crash, there are some design rules that will make it crash but I'm not a
moron so don't try them again. I receive designs from other Protel
designers and yes their designs crash (lock up) when I load them in my
system. I generally investigate what
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