Re: [PEDA] Utility to count SMD/Through-hole components
this doesn't show component count of each type which is what started this thread and which is a cost driver for assembly rather than bare bd fab Dennis Saputelli Tony Karavidas wrote: I agree with you. It's just to get them close either with stuffing the board, or making the PCB. Who cares if a surface mount part has a couple through hole alignment holes? They are holes nevertheless and require drilling, so they need to be counted as through holes. Here's a sample from one of my recent boards. I consider this to have 6+(750-608)+190=338 through holes and 608 SMT pads. 6 of the through hole pads are not plated. What's the big deal? Layer PairVias Top Layer - Bottom Layer 190 Total 190 Non-Plated Hole Size PadsVias 125mil (3.175mm) 6 0 Total6 0 Plated Hole Size PadsVias 0mil (0mm) 608 0 28mil (0.7112mm)25 190 32mil (0.8128mm) 6 0 35mil (0.889mm) 24 0 40mil (1.016mm) 30 0 43mil (1.0922mm)19 0 60mil (1.524mm) 4 0 80mil (2.032mm) 18 0 90mil (2.286mm) 16 0 Total 750 190 -Original Message- From: Steve Wiseman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:08 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Utility to count SMD/Through-hole components 19/11/2003 21:45:18, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, another, perhaps more practical and safer alternative would be to generate three lists: SMT, through-hole, and possibly mixed. The large majority of components would orginarily not be ambiguous. Since this is all to generate a highly suspect quote from a board- stuffing shop, such care is almost certainly wasted. I can't believe that a quote based on a QFP being costed the same as an 0805 is anything but budgetary... Sounds to me like sorting the BOM based on footprint will get the answer as accurately as is needed for this... Steve -- Dennis Saputelli = send only plain text please! - no HTML == ___ Integrated Controls, Inc. www.integratedcontrolsinc.com 2851 21st Streettel: 415-647-0480 San Francisco, CA 94110 fax: 415-647-3003 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Utility to count SMD/Through-hole components
At 06:07 PM 11/19/2003, Steve Wiseman wrote: Sounds to me like sorting the BOM based on footprint will get the answer as accurately as is needed for this... I'd agree, generally. There might be an exception; perhaps a board has a huge pile of discrete SMT and through-hole devices. However: There's a reason why Protel doesn't include such a facility, and we haven't written a utility for it. The need, if any, is likely very small. It might be useful to get a pad report, i.e., so many surface pads, so many Multilayer pads, as I mentioned previously. An assembler who also had a BOM might get a lot more useful data out of that. In fact, a report that was a list of part types/footprints with the incidence of each and a pad count for each showing the pad type would tell you just about everything you'd need to know for estimating assembly costs. And this report would be easy to generate with Export to Spread. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Jami, I can't help myself when you start ranting like that! :0 It's easy to understand if you would just settle down and read it without getting all emotional. They are giving US for free the needed SP3, but it's just delayed because it's getting rolled into the thing called Protel 2004. To me, it seems like a simply marketing renaming so the product sounds fresh. I think Protel2004 is the same DXP with a new name and more DLLs plugged into it. (And service pack 3++ incorporated). Leave the lawyers out of it. They are the cause of 1/2 the world's problems anyway. The only thing lawyers will do is drain money from Altium, and we'll be paying for it with more expensive products. You think the reason you get banned might have something to do with how harsh you come across on the forum? Maybe you're a great guy, but you act like an a-hole sometimes. They never said they weren't going to fix it. They said it won't be part of DXP. What happened if DXP is now called P2004 and you get P2004 for free? What's the difference what it's called as long as they keep fixing problems? Tony -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 11:56 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? Can anyone out there understand any of this, or is this just more Protel / Altium Jabberwake. On one hand it looks like they are trying to make a case for making a new product out of something that they were supposed to give us as part of DXP and nVisage to begin with, and on the other hand it seems that they are going to end up trying to charge us money to even fix (oops, they will never fix it - so I guess that the more correct word would be finish) DXP SP3.5 (build 18550372). Maybe I just need to get a good nights sleep before I try and read this thing again. On the other hand, maybe we just need to nuke Australia - well maybe not the whole Country, but at least Protel / Altium. I think it may once again be time to wake the sleeping giant of customer / user opinion, but this time, unlike before when Altium supposedly abandoned ATS (only to re-clothe it as so clearly shown below), maybe we need to do it in a much more coordinated manner, that guarentees the outcome in writing. And what the #$%@ is Protel 2004. Could this possibly be Service Pack 7 ? ? ? What is with these guys. Is there something about all of the blood pooling in their brains as they stand upside down on the bottom of the world, or what ? ? ? Protel 99 SE is still incomplete, and needs some patches ! ! ! DXP / nVisage has been lost in la la land for months and months and months, and still can't route a board to completion ! ! ! Does anyone else out there besides me think that it is about time that Protel / Altium needs to come up with some real good answers. Maybe it is just about time to call a lawyer or two, and get a good class action lawsuit going here for SP7, SP8, SP9 and the Source Code for 99SE, and not only a full refund for DXP, but also some very very large punitive damages to cover the purchase of and retraining on some other EDA Software as a real solution to our EDA problems and woes. Needless to say, this is posted here, and not in the DXP Technical Forum, so I don't get banned once again for speaking the truth and seeking honest answers to honest questions. Seriously, I am not just writing this to provoke an answer from Ian or Abd or Tony, and in fact I beg you guys not to take this off topic and run it all downhill into the gutter as has been done in the past. We who are DXP Licensees have spent a very very long time waiting for Protel / Altium to fix the major problems in DXP, and have had no response to many many questions regarding the status of DXP, only now to find out that they have apparently not been busy trying to fix the problems with DXP, but coming up with something new for which they will ask us for more money. For those who did not get a copy, please read the original announcement below. The one that really really really has me fuming is the statement Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Protel / Altium - I don't think that you really know what you are getting yourself in for, and you might want to rethink your whole approach about selling your customer base a non functional system, and then turning around and saying that you are not going to fix it. JaMi Smith @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ - Original Message - From: Phil Loughhead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:36 PM Subject: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP Dear JaMi We would like to notify you about a recent Altium announcement and take
Re: [PEDA] Logo and non-English characters on PCB documents in DX P
At 06:53 PM 11/19/2003, Terry Creer wrote: If it's coming to that, for the first 3 callers, I'll give you a FREE $50 GIFT VOUCHER* *Vouchers are only redeemable at the Bombaloocha Village, Hai-ke-koo Island, 1200 kms west, 890 kms south of Tasmania, Australia. Take your snow gear, cause it's cold out there kids! I can up that!!! I'll do it for an *** ABSOLUTELY FREE *** $100 voucher redeemable toward the purchase of any used Protel 99SE or DXP license, or toward payment for any contracted design job, not to exceed 10% of the quoted price. :-) Satisfaction guaranteed or I'll accept the voucher back :-) Design service portion of this offer not available for existing customers of Lomax Design Associates but I'd still do the conversion. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
yes, it is rather 'exciting' isn't it? guess it depends on what you mean by 'exciting' i think it all smells pretty bad too unfortunately it is highly consistent with their development history, although their business practices have morphed a bit i must say though that for someone like myself who was not happy with the bugs and shortcomings which could have been easily addressed but were left in 99SE, 99SE's makeover as DXP, the falsehoods propagated about the Situs router, etc etc. i am beginning to think that i have only myself to blame for not having gone elsewhere long ago however, i will not join any class action action as i am opposed to them as a matter of principle i wonder if we would be better off if Altium had stuck by their Total Care or whatever it was called Maybe they wouldn't have to chase new seats so hard. (idle and pointless speculation here, sorry) acad offers some interesting parallels: they added some features (forget catchy name) which was some sort of interactive internet crap for each of the last few upgrades the first thing i had to do was turn off most of the NEW internet related features and helpers As i understand it (I have not upgraded to ACAD2004) ACAD2004 is a very compelling upgrade though! :) :) they changed some colors of some menus they made the license much more restrictive they removed SAVE AS release 14 (which is probably what most people use) Dennis Saputelli JaMi Smith wrote: What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? Can anyone out there understand any of this, or is this just more Protel / Altium Jabberwake. On one hand it looks like they are trying to make a case for making a new product out of something that they were supposed to give us as part of DXP and nVisage to begin with, and on the other hand it seems that they are going to end up trying to charge us money to even fix (oops, they will never fix it - so I guess that the more correct word would be finish) DXP SP3.5 (build 18550372). Maybe I just need to get a good nights sleep before I try and read this thing again. On the other hand, maybe we just need to nuke Australia - well maybe not the whole Country, but at least Protel / Altium. I think it may once again be time to wake the sleeping giant of customer / user opinion, but this time, unlike before when Altium supposedly abandoned ATS (only to re-clothe it as so clearly shown below), maybe we need to do it in a much more coordinated manner, that guarentees the outcome in writing. And what the #$%@ is Protel 2004. Could this possibly be Service Pack 7 ? ? ? What is with these guys. Is there something about all of the blood pooling in their brains as they stand upside down on the bottom of the world, or what ? ? ? Protel 99 SE is still incomplete, and needs some patches ! ! ! DXP / nVisage has been lost in la la land for months and months and months, and still can't route a board to completion ! ! ! Does anyone else out there besides me think that it is about time that Protel / Altium needs to come up with some real good answers. Maybe it is just about time to call a lawyer or two, and get a good class action lawsuit going here for SP7, SP8, SP9 and the Source Code for 99SE, and not only a full refund for DXP, but also some very very large punitive damages to cover the purchase of and retraining on some other EDA Software as a real solution to our EDA problems and woes. Needless to say, this is posted here, and not in the DXP Technical Forum, so I don't get banned once again for speaking the truth and seeking honest answers to honest questions. Seriously, I am not just writing this to provoke an answer from Ian or Abd or Tony, and in fact I beg you guys not to take this off topic and run it all downhill into the gutter as has been done in the past. We who are DXP Licensees have spent a very very long time waiting for Protel / Altium to fix the major problems in DXP, and have had no response to many many questions regarding the status of DXP, only now to find out that they have apparently not been busy trying to fix the problems with DXP, but coming up with something new for which they will ask us for more money. For those who did not get a copy, please read the original announcement below. The one that really really really has me fuming is the statement Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Protel / Altium - I don't think that you really know what you are getting yourself in for, and you might want to rethink your whole approach about selling your customer base a non functional system, and then turning around and saying that you are not going to fix it. JaMi Smith @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ - Original Message - From: Phil Loughhead [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
At 02:56 AM 11/20/2003, JaMi Smith wrote: Maybe I just need to get a good nights sleep before I try and read this thing again. Maybe you should follow that practice every time you think that Altium is a collection of idiots and you are tempted to fly off the handle as you did. [...] Seriously, I am not just writing this to provoke an answer from Ian or Abd or Tony, and in fact I beg you guys not to take this off topic and run it all downhill into the gutter as has been done in the past. It's already there. We who are DXP Licensees have spent a very very long time waiting for Protel / Altium to fix the major problems in DXP [...] only now to find out that they have apparently not been busy trying to fix the problems with DXP, but coming up with something new for which they will ask us for more money. For those who did not get a copy, please read the original announcement below. I'll quote the relevant parts below. The one that really really really has me fuming is the statement Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Protel / Altium - I don't think that you really know what you are getting yourself in for, and you might want to rethink your whole approach about selling your customer base a non functional system, and then turning around and saying that you are not going to fix it. They did not say that. However, I'll admit that on the *second* reading, I became confused and thought that they *had* said that Protel 2004 was not going to be free to ordinary DXP users. That was a misreading. See: Because of our belief that every engineer should have access to the opportunities that this new technology offers, all current DXP version users will receive the 2004 software update automatically, free of charge when it is released Q1, 2004. All current DXP version users. Free. That's pretty explicit! And Mr. Loughhead repeated: So to clarify.. Everyone who holds a valid user license of Protel DXP and/or nVisage DXP will receive their respective 2004 software update automatically, free-of-charge. What is not free is Nanoboard: All customers who hold Protel DXP and/or nVisage DXP licenses AND have a valid pre-paid upgrade subscription will receive the 2004 software updates as well as the NanoBoard. What confused me (and which may have also afflicted Mr. Smith) was that last paragraph, read in isolation. It could have been written to avoid the problem, as in: All customers who also have a valid pre-paid upgrade subscription will receive, in addition, the Nanoboard. I have to agree with Mr. Loughhead's title. It is good news, assuming that Protel 2004 addresses the major user complaints. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Project management
thanks Ian, what about project groups? I woould think a project group is a group of projects, is there anything more to it? From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEDA] Project management Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:39:27 +1100 On 07:51 AM 18/11/2003, Protel Hell said: Hi all, I am having a tough time understanding the structure of data in Protel DXP. Seems they always make this stuff more complicated than it needs to be. (they being the software developers) OK there is a project, under the project there is a schematic and a PCB, there should be libraries of schematic symbols and footprints in the project, it should be easy to add and remove these symbols and footprints from the libraies. So how do you do it? Is there an ASCII file that can be editted like in ViewDraw (which seems to have a similar project concept)? Can you take an axisting project and delete what you don't want in there, add what you want, and then save it to a new project (the simplest way i found to manage ViewDraw, the auto BS is just too cumbersome)? Libraries that are part of a project are (usually) libraries that you are busy editing (adding and changing footprints and symbols). Libraries that are stable and you only need them to place footprints and symbols from can be installed in the Libraries panel. Many projects will not include any libraries on the Project panel - all the necessary libraries would be installed in the Libraries panel. Open the Libraries panel and click on the Installed tab and then click on the Libraries... button to add or remove libraries. Ian _ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Abd and the Forum, What I perceive from my original reading of the announcement is that Protel / Altium is going to drop DXP and nVisage DXP (DXPnV), and replace it with a new product, Protel 2004 (P04), which will be given to all current DXP and DXPnV (collectively DXP(nV) ) license holders, free of charge. Although the announcement doesn't specifically say it, I feel that between the lines it is saying that all support for DXP(nV) will now cease entirely, and current DXP(nV) license holders will now be given a new product, P04, in lieu of any further support, and specifically in lieu of any further Service Packs. In this regard, I also have a sinking feeling that since P04 is supposedly a new product, or shall we say a different product, that Protel / Altium can and will claim to have no further necessity to support any current DXP(nV) licensees beyond simply replacing DXP(nV) with P04, whether it works or not, and that they will not receive any further support without paying for it. Back to the issue of Service Pack 3 for DXP(nV). It appears (or should I say that I perceive) that in order for Protel / Altium to proceed any further on fixing the problems by issuing a real SP3 (beyond the two pre releases of SP3) for DXP(nV), that they had to fix enough things that they have actually changed or altered things enough to call it (or make it) a new product. Ok, so where does that leave us now? It firstly appears that this is Protel / Altiums way of answering all of the people in the DXP Technical Forum who have been screaming for Service Pack 3, which is long long over due, by saying that they will get a new product (P04) in lieu of any further support of DXP(nV), which will be here until the first quarter of next year (Q1, 2004), which realistically means the end of March (4 months away), if they do not slip the release date (and when have we not seen that happen?). Secondly, this appears (or I should probably again say that I perceive that this appears) to leave DXP(nV) licensees and users in a position that any and all of their training is now down the tube and wasted, and that the new P04 product is again going to be quite different in its operation, and going require that everyone will have to jump thru an entirely new training hoop. The real question here is whether or not those who have already paid for DXP(nV) training will get free training on the new P04, or whether they will have to pay cold hard cash to get trained anew on P04. In other words, have they thrown their time and money away. This brings us a very very large issue which I will not digress into here, and that is whether or not all investments in learning and using DXP(nV) will have been wasted. For example, will designs done in DXP(nV), and such things as library components, be compatible with P04? Here I might speculate that Protel 2004 will be more along the lines of Protel 99 SE than DXP in its operation. Could it just be that Protel / Altium has realized that they have gone down the wrong road in their design of DXP(nV), and that too many people have complained about its operation (not to mention the training and learning curve), and that they realize that no one wants to buy the beast beyond those people who have blindly upgraded to it. Again, I would refer all to the original announcement by Protel / Altium, and if they were not a recipient on the original mailing, then see my original post here which contains the original announcement at the bottom. What this announcement by Protel / Altium seems to be saying is that we cant fix DXP(nV), so we are going to replace it, but don't worry, we will replace it for free. Where does that leave the people who have bought into DXP(nV), and have been struggling to learn how to use it for the last year, and have already made the transition to it. It appears that what Protel / Altium may be really saying in this announcement is that they want all of the DXP(nV) licensees and users to hold on for another 4, or 5, or 6, or 10 months, or a year, so that they can give you a new product which actually will work (wiahful thinking?), which will replace their DXP(nV) blunder. I think that this announcement by Protel / Altium, and more specifically this move underlying the announcement, is designed soley to stall and pacify all of the DXP(nV) licensees and users, while they change directions and try to go unnoticed as they try to climb out of the hole that they dug for themselves. To this I once again say, what the @$#% is going on, and what the @$#% are all of the DXP(nV) licensees and users supposed to do in the meantime? Forgive me, but to me it appears that this announcement and the apparent (or should I say possible) move underlying it, seems to be made simply to prevent losing customers to other EDA products, and more specifically, prevent those licensees from demanding not only their money back, but more money in the form of damages due to the time and expense of converting all
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Guess I might as well forgo the 99SE to DXP 1 day upgrade course, and wait for the next series of bugs to learn workarounds for. I'd happily trade 8 or ten new features for a couple of bug fixes. Jeez... BTW what is this going to do to the release of the DXP SDK?? Bob Stephens -Original Message- From: Rich Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 5:29 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP I'm personally happy with DXP, it is infinitely better than 99SE. As for protel 2004, whats the problem? You are getting the SP3 updates and new features within 2004 release for free! I think you may be right about the sleep ;-) rt -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 November 2003 07:56 To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? Can anyone out there understand any of this, or is this just more Protel / Altium Jabberwake. On one hand it looks like they are trying to make a case for making a new product out of something that they were supposed to give us as part of DXP and nVisage to begin with, and on the other hand it seems that they are going to end up trying to charge us money to even fix (oops, they will never fix it - so I guess that the more correct word would be finish) DXP SP3.5 (build 18550372). Maybe I just need to get a good nights sleep before I try and read this thing again. On the other hand, maybe we just need to nuke Australia - well maybe not the whole Country, but at least Protel / Altium. I think it may once again be time to wake the sleeping giant of customer / user opinion, but this time, unlike before when Altium supposedly abandoned ATS (only to re-clothe it as so clearly shown below), maybe we need to do it in a much more coordinated manner, that guarentees the outcome in writing. And what the #$%@ is Protel 2004. Could this possibly be Service Pack 7 ? ? ? What is with these guys. Is there something about all of the blood pooling in their brains as they stand upside down on the bottom of the world, or what ? ? ? Protel 99 SE is still incomplete, and needs some patches ! ! ! DXP / nVisage has been lost in la la land for months and months and months, and still can't route a board to completion ! ! ! Does anyone else out there besides me think that it is about time that Protel / Altium needs to come up with some real good answers. Maybe it is just about time to call a lawyer or two, and get a good class action lawsuit going here for SP7, SP8, SP9 and the Source Code for 99SE, and not only a full refund for DXP, but also some very very large punitive damages to cover the purchase of and retraining on some other EDA Software as a real solution to our EDA problems and woes. Needless to say, this is posted here, and not in the DXP Technical Forum, so I don't get banned once again for speaking the truth and seeking honest answers to honest questions. Seriously, I am not just writing this to provoke an answer from Ian or Abd or Tony, and in fact I beg you guys not to take this off topic and run it all downhill into the gutter as has been done in the past. We who are DXP Licensees have spent a very very long time waiting for Protel / Altium to fix the major problems in DXP, and have had no response to many many questions regarding the status of DXP, only now to find out that they have apparently not been busy trying to fix the problems with DXP, but coming up with something new for which they will ask us for more money. For those who did not get a copy, please read the original announcement below. The one that really really really has me fuming is the statement Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Protel / Altium - I don't think that you really know what you are getting yourself in for, and you might want to rethink your whole approach about selling your customer base a non functional system, and then turning around and saying that you are not going to fix it. JaMi Smith * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Global track width changes
Hi again folks, This may seem like a real dumb question and perhaps it is right in front of me and I am blind to it. In some other EDA tools, you are able to select an entire group of traces, right-click and edit items common to all the tracks such as width. Is there a way to do this in Protel? I want to select an entire group of tracks, and change all the tack widths to one regardless of their current width. Can anyone assist me? Thank you and Best regards, Bill Dager Senior Engineering Technician Neuronetics, Inc. 1 Great Valley Parkway Suite 2 Malvern, PA 19355 Phone: 610-640-4202 ext 1022 Cell: 267-255-2553 Fax: 610-640-4206 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.neuronetics.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Amen brother. Frank At 08:49 PM 11/20/2003 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote: When has anyone been as rude to you as you are to others? Is it a special skill you have or something you practice hard at. Why don't you make your point without the slander and bigotry? Ian Wilson Frank Gilley Dell-Star Technologies (918) 838-1973 Phone (918) 838-8814 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dellstar.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] pick and place report
Hi all, This job will be my first where a pick and place machine is used. I have some confusion regarding bottom side components. How do people generally handle the pick and place report? Do you re-orient the results so that X is increasing facing the bottom of the board (so that the bottom looks like the top). What is the transoform on rotation. I see that Protel buggers it, but it doesn't give the same answer as if the component were on the top layer? Basically what massaging should be needed besides linking to the compnent data base to get full component info? Mike * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] FW: Global track width changes
It WAS dumb...I found it...Inspector! Never mind. -Original Message- From: William Dager Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:49 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Global track width changes Hi again folks, This may seem like a real dumb question and perhaps it is right in front of me and I am blind to it. In some other EDA tools, you are able to select an entire group of traces, right-click and edit items common to all the tracks such as width. Is there a way to do this in Protel? I want to select an entire group of tracks, and change all the tack widths to one regardless of their current width. Can anyone assist me? Thank you and Best regards, Bill Dager Senior Engineering Technician Neuronetics, Inc. 1 Great Valley Parkway Suite 2 Malvern, PA 19355 Phone: 610-640-4202 ext 1022 Cell: 267-255-2553 Fax: 610-640-4206 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.neuronetics.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] How to place graphical image onto the PCB board
I have a very simple black-white picture in bitmap format and I want to place this picture onto my designing PCB board, how can I do it? Thank you! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Ian, Please see below. JaMi - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP On 06:56 PM 20/11/2003, JaMi Smith said: What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? When has anyone been as rude to you as you are to others? Is it a special skill you have or something you practice hard at. Actually Ian, I am not always rude to others, and you know that, and neither are you, but even you have been extremely rude on occasion. I do not always flame on others, and you know that, and neither do you, but you have especially done so on occasion. I do not always dump on others, and you know that, and neither do you, but even you have done so on occasion. As even you have personally demonstrated here in this forum and others in the past, there are occasions when it is both proper and necessary to be rude, or to flame, or to dump, on someone or something, and I believe that this is one of them. In this case, I dumped on Protel / Altium, specifically because of what I perceive to be going on here with regards to them abandoning DXP Licensees and Users. Plain and simple. I am not being personally rude or slandering your good buddy (or would that be good mate down under) for what he wrote, nor am I holding him personally accountable for the actions that Protel / Altium as a Corporation seem to be taking, since those actions are not personally attributable to him, but I nonetheless do believe that the Corporation is in fact screwing over the DXP Licensees and Users. Again, plain and simple. I am on one hand rather surprised that you have been very very quiet respecting what is going on here, but on the other hand, you have obviously had full knowledge of what was going on here for a long time thru your good buddy and other contacts at Protel / Altium, which has put you in a rather unique position, and I can respect that you have to keep your mouth shut as far as criticism is concerned so that you don't jeopardize those friendships and relationships. But just because you have to keep your mouth shut, it doesn't mean that I or others have to keep our mouths shut, respecting Protel / Altium raking us over the coals. I find it very very interesting and very very telling that you cannot say anything else about this whole situation other than complain about my manner of responding to this situation. Your good buddies at Protel / Altium are screwing us, and you have absolutely nothing to say except that you consider me to be rude. Well, I tell you something, since this is a open discussion group that consists of men and women of all different sensitivities, I have tried to keep it fairly clean, but I think you can read thru the lines what I really think of some turncoat smuck like you who is a member of this forum, but yet keeps his mouth shut about what is happening to your fellow users. Seems to me that we have been here in the past, haven't we, where you have kept your mouth shut about certain things simply to let them play out to the detrament of others in the forum? But I guess that you no longer really consider yourself a user any more, since you have graduated to an insider. You have been very very quiet in all of the forums lately, and I guess we now all know why. Why don't you make your point without the slander and bigotry? Ian Wilson I don't believe that I have used slander or bigotry, and I actually think you got the whole point very precisely, but that you couldn't respond to it in any other way, other than make an issue out of my manner of presenting the problem. Didn't I specifically ask you not to respond to me but rather respond to the issue. But you cannot respond to the issue, can you. The politest thing that I can think to call you in this circumstance is a smuck, and I don't mean it in a bigotrous sense either, I am just trying to keep it clean and respect the sensitivities of others in this forum, while at the same time let everyone else know just exactly where your allegiances really lye . Ian, please don't attack me or my mannerisms, simply because you cannot speak to the issue. I've got a great idea Ian, why don't you really come to the aid of the DXP Licensees and Users and all of the other people in this forum, and come clean with what you really know about everything that is going on with Protel / Altium in this current issue? JaMi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] What is 'LiveDesign' demo? where can I see what it will do for me. Fw: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Prompted by Ivans comments below and my own curiosity as to what we are waiting for, Who else would like to see an Altium on-line demo or multimedia presentation on what LiveDesign actually is? If we are going to have to dump DXP in favour of waiting for Protel 2004 with LiveDesign, I do not think it unreasonable to ask to see what we will be waiting for and how it will make up for the long wait wasted efforts Such material must exist from the many development meetings reviews, as with a 4 month deadline of Q1/2004 for project completion, test, de-bug, release to manufacturing for the CD's, distribution, the specifications must be set in stone by now. Its not as if we will be holding up the release of SP3 any more. Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications ltd Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWWhttp://www.rsd.tv == -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 3:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Fw: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP More importantly for you, Nexar will pioneer a new approach to electronics development something that we are calling LiveDesign. LiveDesign capabilities, which are incorporated into the DXP platform, support real-time communication between the engineer and the design... Real-time communication between the engineer and the design? What does it say? The only thing my designs have communicated to me is Hello, world, or blink-blink, or sometimes *POOF!* To which I respond, Woo hoo!, Alright!, or #@%#! All kidding aside, it sounds like an interesting and possibly useful concept. But given Altium's dismal track record at integrating truly useful and bug-free PLD and FPGA support into the Protel suite, I have my doubts. Has anyone ever successfully used Protel's PLD/FPGA features with a vendor's (Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, etc.) toolsuite and gotten usable results? Was it worth the hassle? I ask because it is usually better to use the vendor's fitting, place, and route software than some 3rd party thing. I wonder if Nexar will be another Altium product that is announced to much hype, driving upgrade purchases, and then quietly dropped (remember PeakVHDL?). Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Phil Loughhead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:39 AM Subject: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP We would like to notify you about a recent Altium announcement and take some time to explain the impact of this on the current DXP product range, in particular Protel and nVisage. This week, Altium announced the release of a new Altium product called Nexar (see http://www.altium.com/corp/media/mr_nexar.htm/). Nexar will deliver a new approach to digital design, allowing you to implement a processor-based digital system in an FPGA using board design methodologies. It will include a mixed schematic/HDL design capture environment, IP cores, embedded development tools, and a reconfigurable hardware development platform called a NanoBoard. These features combine to create a highly interactive design and debug environment, allowing the engineer to interact directly with a design implemented in the FPGA. For more information on Nexar, please go to http://www.altium.com/nexar/. More importantly for you, Nexar will pioneer a new approach to electronics development something that we are calling LiveDesign. LiveDesign capabilities, which are incorporated into the DXP platform, support real-time communication between the engineer and the design. This will have broad implications for all Altium products how they work, and more importantly, how they work together to provide a complete, integrated electronics design system. Significantly, the entire Altium product line will move to the LiveDesign-enabled DXP platform, providing access to the benefits of this new methodology for all Altium customers. Because of our belief that every engineer should have access to the opportunities that this new technology offers, all current DXP version users will receive the 2004 software update automatically, free of charge when it is released Q1, 2004. Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Furthermore, nVisage 2004 will deliver a strengthened environment for dedicated FPGA design. Protel 2004 will be enhanced with FPGA pin optimisation capabilities, and include full forward and back annotation of design changes between FPGA and PCB projects. It will also include the previously announced Situs
[PEDA] On LiveDesign
After a quick search for LiveDesign I came across this article http://www.eetuk.com/bus/news/OEG20031119S0001 A few quotes from it, but please read the article for yourself, It is essentially the same methodology they would use to create a pc board design, but now the platform is an FPGA, said Martin. We call this the LiveDesign methodology because users can see the results of their design running live on the development board once they have completed it; [they] don't have to wait until the design is physically manufactured. More-experienced users may wish to purchase the full version of Altera's Quartus or Xilinx's ISE software from those FPGA vendors to perform more-advanced layout, Martin said. But my question is how this LiveDesign approach will make PCB layout more productive or easier? (Not just FPGA) Not quite as easy to reliably simulate PCB layout on a budget as the conditional factors are not quite as easy to predict as the behaviour of a silicon block on a FPGA with known routes characteristics. Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications ltd Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWWhttp://www.rsd.tv == -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 3:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Fw: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP More importantly for you, Nexar will pioneer a new approach to electronics development something that we are calling LiveDesign. LiveDesign capabilities, which are incorporated into the DXP platform, support real-time communication between the engineer and the design... Real-time communication between the engineer and the design? What does it say? The only thing my designs have communicated to me is Hello, world, or blink-blink, or sometimes *POOF!* To which I respond, Woo hoo!, Alright!, or #@%#! All kidding aside, it sounds like an interesting and possibly useful concept. But given Altium's dismal track record at integrating truly useful and bug-free PLD and FPGA support into the Protel suite, I have my doubts. Has anyone ever successfully used Protel's PLD/FPGA features with a vendor's (Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, etc.) toolsuite and gotten usable results? Was it worth the hassle? I ask because it is usually better to use the vendor's fitting, place, and route software than some 3rd party thing. I wonder if Nexar will be another Altium product that is announced to much hype, driving upgrade purchases, and then quietly dropped (remember PeakVHDL?). Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Phil Loughhead [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:39 AM Subject: Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP We would like to notify you about a recent Altium announcement and take some time to explain the impact of this on the current DXP product range, in particular Protel and nVisage. This week, Altium announced the release of a new Altium product called Nexar (see http://www.altium.com/corp/media/mr_nexar.htm/). Nexar will deliver a new approach to digital design, allowing you to implement a processor-based digital system in an FPGA using board design methodologies. It will include a mixed schematic/HDL design capture environment, IP cores, embedded development tools, and a reconfigurable hardware development platform called a NanoBoard. These features combine to create a highly interactive design and debug environment, allowing the engineer to interact directly with a design implemented in the FPGA. For more information on Nexar, please go to http://www.altium.com/nexar/. More importantly for you, Nexar will pioneer a new approach to electronics development something that we are calling LiveDesign. LiveDesign capabilities, which are incorporated into the DXP platform, support real-time communication between the engineer and the design. This will have broad implications for all Altium products how they work, and more importantly, how they work together to provide a complete, integrated electronics design system. Significantly, the entire Altium product line will move to the LiveDesign-enabled DXP platform, providing access to the benefits of this new methodology for all Altium customers. Because of our belief that every engineer should have access to the opportunities that this new technology offers, all current DXP version users will receive the 2004 software update automatically, free of charge when it is released Q1, 2004. Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Furthermore, nVisage
Re: [PEDA] component pin dialogue
Do you mean in the Browse PCB or Browse SCH tab? If so, that button is basically a shortcut to the library editor anyway. Or are you talking about another dialog? In PCB, if I double click on a component, I do get a Component dialog box with three tabs, one is Properties There is not way to edit a pin from that dialog box. Tony -Original Message- From: Protel Hell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEDA] component pin dialogue thanks, for anybody else that may be wondering the pin editor dialogue is accessed from the component properties dialogue box (lower left corner) in either schematic or pcb hey, if we are doing the tutorial we have very little understanding, so give complete directions mr. tech writer of the tutorial! From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEDA] component pin dialogue Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0800 Have you opened the library containing the part? You can't edit the pin directly in the sch. It has to be done in the lib, but first you need to add the lib to a DDB file. -Original Message- From: Protel Hell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEDA] component pin dialogue The tutorial book refers to a component pin editor dialogue, yet does not tell how to get to it, nor does a search in help find this dialogue, how do you call this dialogue? _ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
What does any of this have to do with Protel or circuit design. Why don't you both shut up and quit bothering everybody? L.Gabrielson - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP Ian, Please see below. JaMi - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP On 06:56 PM 20/11/2003, JaMi Smith said: What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? When has anyone been as rude to you as you are to others? Is it a special skill you have or something you practice hard at. Actually Ian, I am not always rude to others, and you know that, and neither are you, but even you have been extremely rude on occasion. I do not always flame on others, and you know that, and neither do you, but you have especially done so on occasion. I do not always dump on others, and you know that, and neither do you, but even you have done so on occasion. As even you have personally demonstrated here in this forum and others in the past, there are occasions when it is both proper and necessary to be rude, or to flame, or to dump, on someone or something, and I believe that this is one of them. In this case, I dumped on Protel / Altium, specifically because of what I perceive to be going on here with regards to them abandoning DXP Licensees and Users. Plain and simple. I am not being personally rude or slandering your good buddy (or would that be good mate down under) for what he wrote, nor am I holding him personally accountable for the actions that Protel / Altium as a Corporation seem to be taking, since those actions are not personally attributable to him, but I nonetheless do believe that the Corporation is in fact screwing over the DXP Licensees and Users. Again, plain and simple. I am on one hand rather surprised that you have been very very quiet respecting what is going on here, but on the other hand, you have obviously had full knowledge of what was going on here for a long time thru your good buddy and other contacts at Protel / Altium, which has put you in a rather unique position, and I can respect that you have to keep your mouth shut as far as criticism is concerned so that you don't jeopardize those friendships and relationships. But just because you have to keep your mouth shut, it doesn't mean that I or others have to keep our mouths shut, respecting Protel / Altium raking us over the coals. I find it very very interesting and very very telling that you cannot say anything else about this whole situation other than complain about my manner of responding to this situation. Your good buddies at Protel / Altium are screwing us, and you have absolutely nothing to say except that you consider me to be rude. Well, I tell you something, since this is a open discussion group that consists of men and women of all different sensitivities, I have tried to keep it fairly clean, but I think you can read thru the lines what I really think of some turncoat smuck like you who is a member of this forum, but yet keeps his mouth shut about what is happening to your fellow users. Seems to me that we have been here in the past, haven't we, where you have kept your mouth shut about certain things simply to let them play out to the detrament of others in the forum? But I guess that you no longer really consider yourself a user any more, since you have graduated to an insider. You have been very very quiet in all of the forums lately, and I guess we now all know why. Why don't you make your point without the slander and bigotry? Ian Wilson I don't believe that I have used slander or bigotry, and I actually think you got the whole point very precisely, but that you couldn't respond to it in any other way, other than make an issue out of my manner of presenting the problem. Didn't I specifically ask you not to respond to me but rather respond to the issue. But you cannot respond to the issue, can you. The politest thing that I can think to call you in this circumstance is a smuck, and I don't mean it in a bigotrous sense either, I am just trying to keep it clean and respect the sensitivities of others in this forum, while at the same time let everyone else know just exactly where your allegiances really lye . Ian, please don't attack me or my mannerisms, simply because you cannot speak to the issue. I've got a great idea Ian, why don't you really come to the aid of the DXP Licensees and Users and all of the other people in this forum, and come clean with what you really know about everything that is going on with Protel / Altium in this current issue? JaMi
Re: [PEDA] pick and place report
21/11/2003 16:11:28, Mike Ingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Basically what massaging should be needed besides linking to the compnent data base to get full component info? I'd leave it well alone, unless the assembly shop request changes. While there's a machine placing the compoents, there's still a human (or several) doing front-end stuff. Give them a call - their requirements vary from shop to shop, and something that one shop loves, another shop may hate with a passion... Give them a call _before_ you spend hours massaging your data, and have a chat about a format that you can generate, and tehy can use. There's usually a happy overlap somewhere. Assembly shops have _always_ been happy to talk to me at this stage, since it saves time hassle all round, making them look cost-effective, and you like a production master :o) Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] How to place graphical image onto the PCB board
Simply solution: http://www.proteluser.com/download/bitmap_to_pcb/ -Original Message- From: Mr. Zhang Yangtian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 6:54 PM To: Protel Subject: [PEDA] How to place graphical image onto the PCB board I have a very simple black-white picture in bitmap format and I want to place this picture onto my designing PCB board, how can I do it? Thank you! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Why? The way I read into it all is that DXP is the host environment and each of these other things are functional plug in modules. Protel2004 is the PCB stuff, Nexar is the system level FPGA stuff, nV is the sch/sim stuff. I don't think a training course for the current DXP will change much at all when the new stuff comes out. (Other than the omission of new functionally which obviously isn't currently implemented) The 99SE to DXP changes will probably apply straight into the new upcoming tools. Altium, is the wrong, or is it a good guess? Tony -Original Message- From: bob stephens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:47 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP Guess I might as well forgo the 99SE to DXP 1 day upgrade course, and wait for the next series of bugs to learn workarounds for. I'd happily trade 8 or ten new features for a couple of bug fixes. Jeez... BTW what is this going to do to the release of the DXP SDK?? Bob Stephens -Original Message- From: Rich Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 5:29 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP I'm personally happy with DXP, it is infinitely better than 99SE. As for protel 2004, whats the problem? You are getting the SP3 updates and new features within 2004 release for free! I think you may be right about the sleep ;-) rt -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 November 2003 07:56 To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP What the #$%@ is going on now ? ? ? Can anyone out there understand any of this, or is this just more Protel / Altium Jabberwake. On one hand it looks like they are trying to make a case for making a new product out of something that they were supposed to give us as part of DXP and nVisage to begin with, and on the other hand it seems that they are going to end up trying to charge us money to even fix (oops, they will never fix it - so I guess that the more correct word would be finish) DXP SP3.5 (build 18550372). Maybe I just need to get a good nights sleep before I try and read this thing again. On the other hand, maybe we just need to nuke Australia - well maybe not the whole Country, but at least Protel / Altium. I think it may once again be time to wake the sleeping giant of customer / user opinion, but this time, unlike before when Altium supposedly abandoned ATS (only to re-clothe it as so clearly shown below), maybe we need to do it in a much more coordinated manner, that guarentees the outcome in writing. And what the #$%@ is Protel 2004. Could this possibly be Service Pack 7 ? ? ? What is with these guys. Is there something about all of the blood pooling in their brains as they stand upside down on the bottom of the world, or what ? ? ? Protel 99 SE is still incomplete, and needs some patches ! ! ! DXP / nVisage has been lost in la la land for months and months and months, and still can't route a board to completion ! ! ! Does anyone else out there besides me think that it is about time that Protel / Altium needs to come up with some real good answers. Maybe it is just about time to call a lawyer or two, and get a good class action lawsuit going here for SP7, SP8, SP9 and the Source Code for 99SE, and not only a full refund for DXP, but also some very very large punitive damages to cover the purchase of and retraining on some other EDA Software as a real solution to our EDA problems and woes. Needless to say, this is posted here, and not in the DXP Technical Forum, so I don't get banned once again for speaking the truth and seeking honest answers to honest questions. Seriously, I am not just writing this to provoke an answer from Ian or Abd or Tony, and in fact I beg you guys not to take this off topic and run it all downhill into the gutter as has been done in the past. We who are DXP Licensees have spent a very very long time waiting for Protel / Altium to fix the major problems in DXP, and have had no response to many many questions regarding the status of DXP, only now to find out that they have apparently not been busy trying to fix the problems with DXP, but coming up with something new for which they will ask us for more money. For those who did not get a copy, please read the original announcement below. The one that really really really has me fuming is the statement Updates and enhancements that were under development as part of Service Pack 3 for nVisage and Protel will not be released for the DXP versions, but have now been integrated into the nVisage 2004 and Protel 2004 releases. Protel / Altium - I don't think that you really know what you are getting yourself in for, and you might want to rethink your whole approach about selling your customer base a non functional
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Talking about each other doesn't have anything to do with Protel, but discussions that are not circuit design related can be very relevant. It's because of these types of lists we have managed to remove ATS, get features added in DXP, etc. The business operations of Altium affects us and it's great we can chat about it here when necessary. Tony -Original Message- From: Leonard Gabrielson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:58 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP What does any of this have to do with Protel or circuit design. Why don't you both shut up and quit bothering everybody? L.Gabrielson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Crap, I can't type today! I meant to ask: Altium, is THIS wrong, or is it a good guess? -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:16 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP Why? The way I read into it all is that DXP is the host environment and each of these other things are functional plug in modules. Protel2004 is the PCB stuff, Nexar is the system level FPGA stuff, nV is the sch/sim stuff. I don't think a training course for the current DXP will change much at all when the new stuff comes out. (Other than the omission of new functionally which obviously isn't currently implemented) The 99SE to DXP changes will probably apply straight into the new upcoming tools. Altium, is the wrong, or is it a good guess? Tony * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exciting news for all users of Protel DXP and nVisage DXP
Hi Tony/all, That is how I see it also, there is one new product, and the others have 2004 upgrades, which I expect don't have major changes. Not sure what the point of giving to some Protel DXP upgrades the NanoBoard, as from what I can see without Nexar, it will have little or no use.. Darren Moore PS If an email is longer then the row of *** at the bottom of this message, I rarely read it unless the first few lines capture my attention. -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2003 09:16 Why? The way I read into it all is that DXP is the host environment and each of these other things are functional plug in modules. Protel2004 is the PCB stuff, Nexar is the system level FPGA stuff, nV is the sch/sim stuff. I don't think a training course for the current DXP will change much at all when the new stuff comes out. (Other than the omission of new functionally which obviously isn't currently implemented) The 99SE to DXP changes will probably apply straight into the new upcoming tools. Altium, is the wrong, or is it a good guess? Tony *** *** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
