s.com
> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum On
> Behalf Of John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 10:29 AM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: John Denhardt
&g
If you are referring to Tyco WS sprinklers, then you do see that it is not
listed when there is a horizontal mullion but you also see in its installation
details that there is no maximum distance indicated for the “ceiling” to the
sprinkler. Yup, go look at. One other aspect to this is that
bs.com
> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum On
> Behalf Of Joe Burtell via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 10:26 AM
> To: å... ....
> Cc: Joe Burtell ;
> sprinklerforum@list
Greenville, South Carolina 29606
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 10:29 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Denhardt
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Window Sprinklers
Agree 100%. Follow
Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum On Behalf
Of Joe Burtell via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 10:26 AM
To: å...
Cc: Joe Burtell ; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Window Sprinklers
Here
Agree 100%. Follow the Listing - period.
If an architect or an engineer wants to violate the Listing, let them
provide direction and assume all liability.
Thanks,
John
John August Denhardt, PE
*Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services*
*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
m: p:
Here is how I see it. All manufacturers prohibit horizontal mullions. My
guess is they failed testing when horizontal millions were present. The
building code requires the windows to be protected with listed sprinklers.
Even if I did put the additional window sprinkler below the
horizontal
I would ask - what would the lower sprinklers do? It seems like higher level
sprinklers would go off first and then prevent the lower ones from operating.
As you mentioned, they are not listed for that application.
I have had the discussion before: If you want a fire rating, and a window, you
Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fairchild,
Jack
Sent: February 22, 2013 7:01 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
The ICC pulled the evaluation report based on the code change
Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fairchild,
Jack
Sent: February 22, 2013 7:01 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
The ICC pulled the evaluation report based on the code change
Pretty sure you do. The mullion acts as a barrier. More than likely if you
present the dilemma to the A/E team they change the window.
Rod at Rapid
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
I think only horizontal mullions are considered an obstruction to
wetting the glass. Also, in IBC 2013, the sprinkler equivalent for
Fire Rated is no longer approved.
Quoting Rod DiBona r...@rapidfireinc.com:
Pretty sure you do. The mullion acts as a barrier. More than likely
if you
: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
I think only horizontal mullions are considered
, February 21, 2013 2:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
I think only horizontal mullions are considered an obstruction to wetting the
glass. Also, in IBC 2013, the sprinkler equivalent for Fire Rated is no
longer approved.
Quoting Rod DiBona r
, 2013 2:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
I think only horizontal mullions are considered an obstruction to
wetting the glass. Also, in IBC 2013, the sprinkler equivalent for
Fire Rated is no longer approved.
Quoting Rod DiBona r...@rapidfireinc.com
I presume you mean a window with two panes separated by a vertical mullion.
By most Codes/Rules: If the sprinkler/drencher is located centred on the
mullion then one is OK. If mullion is less then 40mm proud of surface it can
be ignored. Otherwise each pane of a window must be sprayed
] On Behalf Of
bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
I think only horizontal mullions are considered an obstruction to wetting
the glass. Also, in IBC 2013, the sprinkler equivalent for Fire Rated
Who else has a listing?
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
You know there are window sprinklers other than Tyco's.
Greg McGahan
The NRC Canada's IRC has an interesting article on the use of SSP QR heads to
protect tempered glass windows, but I don't believe ICC has adopted any of
these yet.
http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/ctus/ctus-n12.html
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
The NRC Canada's IRC has an interesting article on the use of SSP QR heads
to protect tempered glass windows, but I don't believe ICC has adopted any
of these yet.
http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/ibp/irc/ctus/ctus-n12.html
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc
.
George Medina Jr.
-Original Message-
From: Greg McGahan g...@livingwaterfp.com
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 7:01 pm
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
You know there are window sprinklers other than Tyco's. I take the word sill
iterally when applying
...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 10:01 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
Who else has a listing?
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs
You're not allowed horizontal mullions or molding. The glazing can be
separated by vertical mullions so long as each panel has its own sprinkler, but
horizontal bumps are a deal-breaker.
Steve Leyton
Protection Design Consulting
San Diego, CA
-Original Message-
From:
: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 12:22 pm
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
You're not allowed horizontal mullions or molding. The glazing can be
eparated by vertical mullions so long as each panel has its own sprinkler, but
orizontal bumps are a deal-breaker.
Steve Leyton
rotection Design Consulting
an Diego
...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Medina Jr
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
I apologize for not being more clear, the 2½ mullions are vertical and was
asking if each panel
] On Behalf Of George Medina Jr
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 1:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
I apologize for not being more clear, the 2½ mullions are vertical and was
asking if each panel required separate sprinklers for them exceeding 1.
Thanks,
George
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Medina Jr
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 3:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
I apologize for not being more clear, the 2½ mullions are vertical and was
asking if each panel required separate
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: WINDOW SPRINKLERS
George,
The objective is that the entire surface of the glass be wetted.
John Drucker, CET
Fire Protection Subcode Official
Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector
Fire Marshals Office
Borough of Red Bank, NJ
-Original Message
08, 2010 11:47 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Window sprinklers
In regard to the first question about to WS or not to WS, note that
the building code is:
On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:59 PM, John Drucker wrote:
BETWEEN 4 INCHES AND 12 INCHES (102 MM AND 305 MM) AWAY
FROM
Only the person that specified the rated wall or alternate means and methods
for the glass can answer that. You'll note NFPA 13 doesn't have anything
for a contractor to follow, thus this is architect or engineering work to
decide how to do it.
FWIW I've seen both and am comfortable with SS when
In answering this question, one must first ask if there is fire resistance
rating required to be maintained with this installation. Only listed window
sprinklers are tested and listed to provide an actual fire resistance rating
for glazing. This is because these sprinklers are tested in
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Sal Izzo
(TECH- 103)
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:06 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
In answering this question, one must
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
In answering this question, one must first ask if there is fire resistance
rating required to be maintained with this installation. Only listed window
sprinklers are tested and listed to provide an actual fire resistance rating
: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob Caputo
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:12 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Sal,
I am not challenging your knowledge or expertise, and while I agree
: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Bob:
Wasn't the whole Atrium glass issue because the walls around an atrium were
being
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob Caputo
[bcap...@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:11 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Sal,
I am not challenging your knowledge
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Bob:
Wasn't the whole Atrium glass issue because the walls around an atrium were
being treated like exposure protection, not as rated assembly compliance?
What I think I heard, and could be wrong, was that SSP/ssu closely spaces
were wetting the glass
] On Behalf Of Sal Izzo
(TECH- 103)
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 1:42 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Bob:
I agree, Bob. My dear friend John Drucker would be disappointed in me for
forgetting about the ability of the building code in providing such
prescriptive
Wait. You mean this exterior dry horizontal sidewall head I'm supposed to
center over the exterior window connected to the wet system piping in the
ceiling might not work the way the engineer drew it? Buy an engineer drew
it? It's on the drawring?
(my apologies, a sore spot still..)
Wong
Not
, March 08, 2010 4:11 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Wait. You mean this exterior dry horizontal sidewall head I'm supposed to
center over the exterior window connected to the wet system piping in the
ceiling might not work the way the engineer drew it? Buy
Subject: RE: Window sprinklers
Bob:
I agree, Bob. My dear friend John Drucker would be disappointed in me for
forgetting about the ability of the building code in providing such
prescriptive alternatives. My intent was to just make the distinction
between a sprinkler actually tested against ASTM
In regard to the first question about to WS or not to WS, note that
the building code is:
On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:59 PM, John Drucker wrote:
BETWEEN 4 INCHES AND 12 INCHES (102 MM AND 305 MM) AWAY
FROM THE GLASS AND DESIGNED SO THAT THE ENTIRE SURFACE OF THE GLASS
IS WET
UPON ACTIVATION OF
I would say no you can't use them for floor coverage. On the plus side
though I don't think you have to worry about cold soldering from the
ceiling sprinklers either.
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic Sprinkler
Phoenix, AZ 85024
-Original Message-
From:
...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:13 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
I would say no you can't use them for floor coverage. On the plus side
though I don't think you
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Cliff
Whitfield
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:20 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:34 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Also unless the windows extend to the ceiling the widow sprinklers will be
placed lower than the ceiling protection
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Thom,
That brings up another issue I've been wondering about. I am being required
to use these on both sides of the windows. I have not studied the details
yet but if the top of the window is at 7' AFF and the ceiling is at 12', how
do
ICC link to report
http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/NES/NER516.pdf
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
-Original Message-
___
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Its important to keep the context of the building code clear. First 2006 IBC
Section 704 applies to EXTERIOR WALLS.
2006 IBC 704.12 Opening Protection applies to; WINDOWS in EXTERIOR WALLS
REQUIRED to have protected openings in accordance with other sections
Thanks man, great information.
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic Sprinkler
Phoenix, AZ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of å...
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 5:03 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Window Sprinklers
Pagni, at
That explains a lot about the composition of fire-rated glazing. I don't know
what the treatment is that's applied to Fire-Lite or other rated glass but
the knock on those products is that they are exorbitantly expensive. It's not
as if you can order up pieces of it - you have to purchase
In an exposure fire like the one described, it would be the responsibility of
the design team to make sure that the fusible link of the sprinkler head is in
an area that can sense the exposure threat. NFPA 80A discusses this concept
in its appendix. So the glass bulb in the sprinkler head
Fletcher
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justin Reid
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:17 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
In an exposure fire like the one described, it would be the responsibility
: Friday, October 03, 2008 11:16 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Yes but the building code does not! So I guess where you have no building
code your OK.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
You DO NOT need building code permission use these heads in an unsprinklered
building. They comply with the building code. The building code requires a
rated wall. We prove ratings through listing agencies performing tests. WS
heads passed
10 years is new when you've been in this trade for 30 yrs. wouldn't you
think?
Russell Rewis
Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc.
107C Hemlock Street
Valdosta, Georgia 31601
229-244-8130
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
, October 02, 2008 5:12 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
10 years is new when you've been in this trade for 30 yrs. wouldn't you
think?
Russell Rewis
Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc.
107C Hemlock Street
Valdosta, Georgia 31601
229-244-8130
[EMAIL PROTECTED
]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:42 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
ToMAYto, toMAHto - my point only being that it's not as if these
sprinklers just showed up with the I-codes. Quell is newer, EC storage
Ah, Gotcha
Bill Minkel, Designer
Dallas, TX
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:16 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Of course it's MORE than adequate
, P.E.
Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc.
372 Wilett Drive
Severna Park, MD 21146
410-544-3620 Phone
410-544-3032 FAX
412-400-6528 Cell
Original Message
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
From: Bill Minkel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, October 01, 2008 9:27 am
To: sprinklerforum
Design Consulting
San Diego, CA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 6:43 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Just a guess but I think the window damage
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
The window sprinkler was tested using the exact same criteria as is used
to establish any other rated assembly. A test fire is built on one
side of the subject and burned for the duration of the rating and then
there's a steady-stream hose test
Yes.
Steve Leyton
Protection Design Consulting
San Diego, CA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher,
Ron
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:10 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
So the test
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Same as for any rated wall or partition. It can't do it's job if it's
not intact.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:42 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
And nobody thinks that might be a problem? I have installed these heads four
feet below a ceiling and outside with only the mullion to act as a heat
collector. Seems like quite
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:29 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Yes.
Steve Leyton
Protection Design Consulting
San Diego, CA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED
, NJ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:28 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
The window sprinkler was tested using the exact same criteria as is used
Just a note about the mentioning of sprinkler activation. The data sheet
states that the advantages are its ability to wet the entire glass and the
quick activation time. Well, that quick activation time is a mystery to me
because the data states that there is no specific distance below the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:10 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
So the test assumes the glass remains intact until sprinkler activation?
Ron Fletcher
I believe the issue is similar to in-rack sprinklers in that the activation is
more or less direct flame impingement. If there is enough heat to jeopardize
the side of a building the head will likely activate.
Rich Richardson
Seattle Fire Department
Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2008 09:49
Protection Design Consulting
San Diego, CA
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russell
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Just a note about the mentioning of sprinkler
sprinkler
has activated.
Ron Fletcher
Aero Automatic Sprinkler
Phoenix, AZ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russell
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Just a note
]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russell
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Just a note about the mentioning of sprinkler activation. The data
sheet
states
, October 01, 2008 1:08 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
That was my point exactly. Not how to install the head per the listing.
A manual system would be more dependable than a closed head system with no heat
collection.
Here's a what if. What if there's a fire
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:42 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
2006 IBC 704.12 provides for exterior window opening utilizing a water
curtain. Exception - Opening protectives are not required where the
building is protected throughout by an automatic
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
If that happens what's the problem?
If FD is on the scene and attacking the fire then most likely occupants
are out, hose streams are in play and sprinklers at the glass are a
non-issue. What about the other sprinklers
Rated glass walls have been used for ages but the Tyco window sprinkler is
fairly new so I've been wondering what has been done in the past to address
this issue architecturally wise. I called an architect and questioned him on
it. He said that a long time ago one could use wire glass. Now he uses
be provided.
John Drucker
Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ)
Red Bank, NJ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John
Drucker
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:42 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
2006
PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Rated glass walls have been used for ages but the Tyco window sprinkler
is
fairly new so I've been wondering what has been done in the past to
address
this issue architecturally wise. I called an architect and questioned
him
Of Steve
Leyton
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:08 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
The obvious answer would be heat that directly threatens the glass; a
sprinkler could react directly to heat on the same side or to heat
radiated from the other side. If it's
The Tyco head is specifically listed to provide protection equivalent to a two
hour rated assembly. So if the corridor is a rated exit corridor then you need
to use the Tyco head to maintain the integrity of the separation. There is no
equivalent rating for sprinklering a window with just an
If the AHJ will approve closely spaced sprinklers you should be okay.
The Tyco window sprinkler has some severe limitations like no horizontal
mullions which translates to no doors.
Just because a sprinkler is UL Listed for an application it doesn't mean
it's the only thing that can be used. We
Cause there is nothing in the code that I am aware of that gives a rating
with ordinary sprinklers at any spacing. The 6' comes in about openings in
floors and as an alternate in the atriums. These are two specific
situations addressed but not a general 1 hr rating. The floor opening has
PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher,
Ron
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:59 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
If the AHJ will approve closely spaced sprinklers you should be okay.
The Tyco window sprinkler has some severe limitations like
: Window Sprinklers
If the AHJ will approve closely spaced sprinklers you should be okay.
The Tyco window sprinkler has some severe limitations like no horizontal
mullions which translates to no doors.
Just because a sprinkler is UL Listed for an application it doesn't mean it's
the only thing
Aero Automatic Sprinkler
Phoenix, AZ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris
Cahill
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:03 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Cause there is nothing in the code that I am
]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott A.
Futrell
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:16 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
The Tyco limitations are because that is what is required to keep the
glass intact, make the sprinkler work properly, and ensure
That is how we do it in Seattle, just as Chris says.
Rich Richardson
Seattle Fire Department
Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/30/2008 06:58
Let me see if I understand Chris, from an architectural standpoint, the
glass wall is not a rated wall unless the Tyco sprinkler is used?
Cause there is
Let me see if I understand Chris, from an architectural standpoint, the
glass wall is not a rated wall unless the Tyco sprinkler is used?
Cause there is nothing in the code that I am aware of that gives a rating
with ordinary sprinklers at any spacing.
If you have a corridor that requires a
, September 30, 2008 9:59 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Let me see if I understand Chris, from an architectural standpoint, the glass
wall is not a rated wall unless the Tyco sprinkler is used?
Cause there is nothing in the code that I am aware
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
It's permitted this way so what's a fellow to do? Tell the Architect/Engineer,
Building Department, Fire Department and owner that they have to eliminate the
doors and horizontal mullions from 80 ft. of glass wall? And by the way, the
next
listed
Craig L. Prahl, CET
listed appears to be the key word here.
I just received a phone call from a representative of Tyco and in essence
this sprinkler is better technology and is an option and not mandatory.
Thank everyone for your response to my post. As usual they are a great help.
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Let me see if I understand Chris, from an architectural standpoint, the
glass wall is not a rated wall unless the Tyco sprinkler is used?
Cause there is nothing in the code that I am aware of that gives a
rating
with ordinary sprinklers at any spacing
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
listed
Craig L. Prahl, CET
listed appears to be the key word here.
I just received a phone call from a representative of Tyco and in essence this
sprinkler is better technology and is an option and not mandatory.
Thank everyone
Ron, there are vertical mullions spaced at 4' and one door. There are no
details or interior elevations for this wall so this is all the info I have
without contacting the architect which is my next step.
Russell Rewis
Brown Automatic Sprinklers, Inc.
107C Hemlock Street
Valdosta, Georgia 31601
Well actually there is ONE reference in the codes for using spray
sprinklers and glass. It is in NFPA 101 - Life Safety Code under
Atriums and applies to a 1 hr separation. The trick there is ensuring
the set-up is wetting the entire surface. From this humble
beginning, it has been a
: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:27 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
That's correct, not mandatory but an excellent and tested item.
So as long as you can prove that your sprinkler protection of the glazing
provides a fire resistant rating equal to that of the wall
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher,
Ron
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
It's permitted this way so what's a fellow to do? Tell the
Architect/Engineer, Building Department, Fire Department
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
Well if it's not mandatory could someone provide the code reference to
another solution for a RATED GLASS WALL? We know how to do unrated and
know
how to do non-glass.
Chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
, September 30, 2008 7:54 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Window Sprinklers
A HA!!! That's the point, isn't it? That the architect failed to
completely design the building and account for the protection of windows
and likely, the limitations of the window sprinklers in terms
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