Ryan,
I think this is a much more eloquent way of saying what I was trying to say;
thank you. I agree that the detail section B was not a good representation. In
reality, the geometry of the 4L or 4LA is essentially such that it forces the
brace member into the proper axis.
Now, do you think
Rubbish? Challenge accepted!
Of course the “standard” configuration of seismic braces imparts a vertical
force on the main. A bunch of sketches would be helpful here, but in lieu of,
let me try to describe:
In a standard configuration, the brace works in tension and compression to
resist the
The CRR (corrosion resistance ratio) is solely based on wall thickness:
CRR = (X / Y)^3
Where:
X is the thickness of the pipe in question at the first exposed thread OR
THINNEST WALL SECTION FOR UNTHREADED PIPE.
And
Y is the thickness of schedule 40 pipe under the first exposed thread.
So if
Well, if they are only supplying one head, then “technically” they are an
armover, right? Are they attached directly to the main, or on a tee at the top
of a riser nipple?
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez
Sent:
Not true. The "over 100 psi" issue is only a factor when you have pipe above
the ceiling feeding sprinklers below a ceiling. If it is an exposed condition
with uprights or pendents on the line, then the presence of a pump is not
relevant.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum
Then I think you should be able to use the section you are referring to and
have a maximum unsupported length of 60”.
Is it a welded branch line? That make it a little bit easier sell than if it’s
threaded with individual segments.
From: Sprinklerforum
Well, a server room would be unoccupied the majority of the time, right?
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of James Crawford
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:20 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Server Rooms
I agree. Unless your fitter really understands sprinkler system hydraulics,
your canned answer should probably be that he needs to check with the designer.
This can get REALLY tricky if QR reduction has been used or the new area is
being really compartmentalized.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001
with have usually
been pretty helpful (and reasonable) when it comes to dealing with this kind of
stuff.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@aerofire.com
neer could design several viable options, but
I'm looking for something that is listed/prescriptive. I'm also interested in
hearing what you've seen/done that might not be a listed method, just for ideas.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero
customer?
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@aerofire.com<mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforu
doors as light hazard in other applications?
The doors in question are 16-feet wide and I was hoping to use a ECLH sidewall
sprinkler in lieu of an ECOH sidewall or two standard spray sidewalls.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central
I knew where you were going, Steve, and I agree that this is a good approach.
We’ve gone this route in the past, but when you get to the stage of the job
where I’m usually involved (closer to construction) and everyone has contracts
for construction, it can sometimes be contentious as far as
Here is a picture of what I'm talking about (let me know if the picture shows
up):
It still maintains an appropriate angle from vertical. And it still resists
motion "parallel to the axis of the system piping". But in doing so it will
impart an additional horizontal load perpendicular to the
The only reference to expansion joints I can find in NFPA 13 is within section
9.3 "Protection of piping WHERE SUBJECT TO EARTHQUAKES". So, if I'm not in an
area that is subject to earthquakes, can I ignore the building expansion joints?
Usually I still add a flexible coupling just to be safe,
t might not be a listed method, just for ideas.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom..
uctural engineer could design several viable options, but
I’m looking for something that is listed/prescriptive. I’m also interested in
hearing what you’ve seen/done that might not be a listed method, just for ideas.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D
NFPA 13 section 11.2.3.2.2.2 states that QR sprinklers shall not be permitted
for use in extra hazard occupancies.
Section 12.6.6 states that the use of QR sprinklers shall be permitted when
listed for such use.
So, if I have a storage occupancy where the appropriate design criteria table
This statement is the invisible line that separates the engineering firms from
the installing contractors. It’s a whole different ball game when you start
attaching dollar signs to your safety margins.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
I've got an owner that wants to store a Class IV commodity, palletized,
solid-piled in a building where the ceiling slope exceeds 2-in-12 and the peak
is just over 35 feet. Are there any NFPA 13 protection options that can
accommodate this?
If he goes with Ordinary Group 2 at the ceiling, then
Good point. You could still do it, but you need to check it in such a way that
the pump can’t pressurize the low pressure side through the FDC connection.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Bruce Verhei
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:25
Probably semantics, but if the water supply has improved enough that a
calculation now works, then it is no longer a “pipe schedule” system. It is now
a “hydraulically calculated” system. So you could throw that 20 psi stipulation
out the window.
I doubt you’ll have a working calculation where
Travis,
Are you seeing this in AZ, or are you doing a lot of work in other states? It
seems like the AHJs we deal with in the valley are usually pretty lax on
requiring calcs for T.I.s.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Travis
Agreed. "Sprinklers shall be arranged to comply with ONE of the following
arrangements:"
If you comply with the first one (beam rule) you don't have to any further.
-Kyle M
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of
Corrosion.
I'm not sure if that is really an issue or not, but I would probably use white
poly heads. Cost difference is basically negligible.
-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL
Sent: Thursday,
Architects/engineers often ask for "corrosion resistant" heads in locker rooms
with showers or in exterior locations that are exposed to ocean air, for
example.
I'm not sure if there is a real, tangible corrosion concern in a car wash, but
it's an easy safeguard to use white-poly heads.
to have two exit stairs (one in each fire area) located within 130
feet of the horizontal exit, reachable from both sides? Or is any one exit
stairway within 130 feet of the horizontal exit OK?
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central
This has been my understanding as well. I wonder why more people don't do it
this way?
I've done it myself one time. But usually am met with a lot of skepticism in
the form of "well, if this is acceptable, why doesn't everyone do it that way?"
From: Sprinklerforum
Not to sidetrack this thread... but is the arrangement Colin is describing
acceptable? I have never found anything in the code saying it isn't, but I
would say that almost every installation I've seen has a separate
pressure-reducing hose valve and pressure-reducing system control valve...
I'm wondering why it isn't more common, considering you purchase about half as
many PRVs that way.
Would you need to flow a hose allowance through that valve as part of you
sprinkler calculation?
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Steve
Are the 4 floors combined less than 52,000 sq. ft.? Or are they just
individually less than 52,000 sq. ft.? Are you pretty confident you can meet
the water delivery times with all four floors on one valve?
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605
That’s what I was finding. This is what had me wondering:
12.1.2 Ceiling Slope. … unless modified by a specific section in Chapter 12 and
Chapters 14 through 20.
That sent me on a wild goose chase to find the specific section where it was
modified.
Thanks, all.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum
And the radiant heaters are typically mounted below the sprinklers, with a
“heat shield” that reflects the heat down towards the occupants. This came up
recently on an ESFR building (where intermediate temp is the highest we could
go) and the mechanical guys weren’t concerned at all about the
I read the handbook commentary for 8.17.5.2, and now I'm confused again:
"When either one of the hose connections described in 8.17.5 is provided, the
flow rates need only be added to the sprinkler system at the design pressure
available at the point of connection to the sprinkler system pipe."
The figures that are shown for this section [A.8.17.5.2.2(a) and (b)] show your
classic combination standpipe, though. That's what is confusing me. I've always
thought of "inside hose" or "hose connections supplied by a sprinkler system"
as being differentiated from standpipe connections
Sorry in advance if this has already been addressed ad nauseam.
It’s pretty common to see steel beam construction with concrete over a
corrugated metal deck (see Exhibit 3.32 in the 2016 handbook for a picture).
This kind of construction can fall into three categories (correct me if I’m
I think that is a pretty solid assumption. I just had a seminar about attic
sprinklers and that is exactly what happened in the tests they showed.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Sornsin [FAR]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11,
of the mezzanine is formed by beams, so there is kind of a
draft stop; but there is a corrugated deck with gaps above the beam for heat to
escape through, so it isn’t really an effective draft stop.
Thanks guys.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N
, or if anyone knew of another option.
All comments are appreciated.
Thanks guys.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@aerofire.com<mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com>
deck with gaps above the beam for heat to
escape through, so it isn't really an effective draft stop.
Thanks guys.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
aflow, etc.) that you either need to use the Sch 5 table or get the data
from the manufacturer. In my experience, it is worth it to use the
manufacturer's data because it is way more robust than Sch 5.
Kyle Montgomery
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580
That is true. (See 23.4.4.6.5) Thanks for pointing that out.
But that does not mean you can ignore the obstruction when determining the
required discharge, right? That was the premise of the original question.
I’ll amend my previous statement to say the area used for determining minimum
Bringing sexy back to the NFPA handbook. Just one more thing Roland Huggins and
Justin Timberlake have in common.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Nick Maneen
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 6:10 PM
To:
I’m looking at a project that is a spec building with office areas at the front
of the building and shop/storage in the rear. The office areas are separated
from the shop areas by a partial-height wall (building is almost 30 feet tall,
wall stops at 12’-0” A.F.F.). The shop/storage areas are
True.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 7:46 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Interesting issue .. residential sprinklers ..
Yes. That’s an option as well. I
Residential sprinklers are “permitted” in dwelling units, not “required”,
right? Couldn’t you use any one of a number of commercial QR extended coverage
sprinklers?
That might mess you up if you are trying to do a 4-sprinklers residential calc…
or it could help because you could get a larger
Yes, fire sprinkler contractors value education.
As far as NICET certification… kind of. It’s necessary in some jurisdictions to
have at least a NICET III stamp plans. And when it is time to hire someone new,
knowing they are NICET certified at the very least gets a foot in the door.
But if I
Chris,
See below. Someone has obviously hacked your account.
:)
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Cahill, Christopher
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 9:54 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: ESFR In A
The definition of Automatic Dry Standpipe says that. But then Sean is left with
a system that doesn't actually fit any definition (literally, if not
practically).
But, I agree, it should go without saying that you don't need a definition for
something that makes no sense to do in the first
Here's what's muddying the waters:
NFPA 14 - 3.3.17.5 Manual Dry Standpipe System. A standpipe system with NO
PERMANENTLY ATTACHED WATER SUPPLY that relies exclusively on the fire
department connection to supply the system demand.
I think that most of us can agree that what the Sean is dealing
Yeah, but what good is it to connect to a water supply that can’t supply the
pressure you need? The only thing that really makes sense is that they are
doing it for supervisory purposes; i.e. someone breaks a pipe or opens a valve,
water starts pouring out and an alarm sounds. But couldn’t you
Steve,
Thanks for the detail on that, but I must not have been very clear with my
point. I understand how a manual wet/dry standpipe works. My question was why
do they connect to an automatic water supply, via the dry pipe valve, that is
not capable of providing the required pressure? Why not
This actually does make a lot of sense. Maybe that is even what the City of
Orlando intended when they wrote the code.
Couldn’t you just have supervisory air for that though, without actually being
connected to a water supply with a dry pipe valve?
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum
Omaha is on 2007 edition, according to a source I trust that lives and works
there.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 9:31 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
-in and the backflow prevention device? We’ve been asked to
provide galvanized pipe in similar scenarios before, but it was suggested that
that might not be AWWA-compliant.
Thanks for your input.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ
Our construction manager uses a tablet with Bluebeam (PDF editor) for this
purpose and he really likes it. I haven’t tried it yet myself.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:04 PM
To:
I disagree, Brad. Whatever distances you use to determine S x L for spacing the
sprinklers, the same distances must be used to determine area of coverage for
hydraulic calculations. (NOTE: There are a few exceptions, such as when using
the 'Small Room Rule').
I think that NFPA 13 spells it
You guys are making a good case... I'm just having a hard time with it because
it's different than what I've been doing for 10 years. But as a contractor, it
would definitely be helpful if I was wrong in this instance (i.e. save some
money).
I wish some of the "Big Wigs" on this site would
Why would you do that instead of using a thru-bolt?
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Rocci Cetani 3
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:51 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: lag bolts
I did think about
jurisdiction in accordance with 8.17.5 for first-aid fire-fighting and
overhaul operations.
Is there a code section somewhere that tells me if/when the small hose
connections are required? Or is it solely up to the AHJ to determine if he
wants them or not?
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE
Yeah. The reason I got here was because I asked the AHJ if they required them,
and he referred me to 8.17.5. I wanted to make sure there wasn’t another code
requirement somewhere that dictated when they are required before I followed up
with him.
Thanks all.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif
, which I think is what leads to all these different strategies as
to how to "calc the underground".
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@ae
erent strategies as
to how to "calc the underground".
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@aerofire.com<mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com>
I would think 4" would be allowable for the shorter standpipes, but I've never
worked in NYC so my thoughts probably aren't worth much.
You are going to run calcs to prove that 4" would work hydraulically, right?
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sp
That's what we've been defaulting to. But what if I don't want to use the same
pipe size to the head under the obstruction?
Most of the time I'm dealing with a duct/diffuser for an evap cooler that only
requires a single sprinkler. I think we can agree that providing 3" pipe to a
single ESFR
Way back in the Dark Ages of Sprinkler Design (2010) when you had to add ESFR
sprinklers under obstructions you were required to add the discharge for up to
2 of them to your overhead calc, thus flowing 14 (12+2) sprinklers.
In 2013, the section requiring the two additional heads was removed
Are the skylights less than 32 square feet?
If so, does 8.5.7.1.1 apply? If so, there’s your answer…
But I’m not sure if it does since 8.5.7.1.1 is a “subtext” to 8.5.7.1, which is
specific to situations where the skylights are less than 32 square feet AND
separated by at least 10 feet. But
[Tangent Alert] With regard to common sense, for most of these large
fulfillment centers their entire livelihood is based upon knowing exactly where
every package/product is at all times. What is the likelihood that they would
just throw a few packages under the conveyor, or let debris
Are you saying that the soffits extend/project 18” from the wall? If so, are
sprinklers actually required beneath the soffits?
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:48 PM
To: Sprinklerforum
8.5.5 contains GENERAL requirements. Individual sprinkler types (such as ESFR)
may have specific requirements, as addressed in section 8.6 thru 8.13. The
handbook has commentary that explains this pretty well.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
While I agree with your theory (I don't feel sprinklers are necessary in this
scenario), the NFPA 13 code requirements for continuous obstructions don't seem
to have a limit for how far the obstruction is below the sprinkler. If it is 2
ft wide, it should be located 2 ft HORIZONTALLY from the
In 2013 they added section 8.6.5.1.2(4) which basically says (I’m paraphrasing)
that you don’t need sprinkler protection under soffits less than 24” wide, as
long as the sprinkler at the higher ceiling is spaced close enough to the wall
(measure to the wall and not the face of the soffit). If
We dealt with this recently where the argument was how to define “adjacent”
sprinklers and whether a mezzanine some 10-plus feet below the ESFR system
should be considered adjacent. I’m not sure if there was a consensus. But that
was a concern because the heads under the mezzanine were going to
It's an ESFR system. ESFR has more restrictions than just applying 8.5.5 rules.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Delvo
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:02 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE:
I see the same language in quite a few places in chapter 17, but I’m looking
specifically at Figure 17.2.1.2.1(f). The criteria is for “storage 25 ft in
height with 5 ft to 10 ft clearance to ceiling”. So that leads me to believe
the ceiling could be up to 35 feet… is that right?
The language
I disagree. From NFPA 13, 2016 edition:
8.17.2.4.3 For multiple systems, the fire department connection shall be
connected between the supply control valve and the system control valves.
Wouldn’t that be on the riser manifold? The handbook even goes on to explain
why this would be the
Which code section requires automatic standpipes for detention facilities? How
long has that been in the code?
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 5:38 PM
To:
I still need to verify, but it looks like it’s going to have a
limited-combustible facing that is stapled in place. For the sake of this
argument, let’s assume that is the case. So, it would be most similar to Figure
A.8.15.1.2.17, with the following differences:
1. It’s a steel bar
I'm looking at a building with steel bar joists with a wood nailer and plywood
deck. The building will have a drop ceiling, and of course have pendent
sprinklers protecting the area below the ceiling.
If there is insulation at the deck that covers the deck and wood nailers, do I
need upright
I would think that QR is OK but that C-Factor should still be reduced (100).
What does the rest of the forum say?
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Knight
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:35 PM
To:
One of the biggest impacts is that calculating as a dry system means you have
to increase remote area size by 30%, but you don't have to do that if you can
calculate as wet.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Knight
Sent:
See 11.2.3.2.5 and A.11.2.3.2.5.
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:19 PM
To: b...@firebyknight.com; sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Single Preaction
Yes.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hairfield
Sent: Monday, November 5, 2018 10:52 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Main Relief Valve for Diesel Driven Fire Pump
Has anyone ever installed a main
What Steve said.
Generally, my experience has been that if they have a heat pump, max outlet
temperature will be less than 100 degrees. But if they have a furnace, there is
a good chance it will be higher. Mechanical designer/contractor should be able
to answer the question.
-Kyle M
From:
There is actually some sense to this. Not because of the color, but just to
make sure the ordinary temp heads don’t end up in the wrong location.
It’s no fun when you get a call from the fitter as he get near the top of a
high-rise apartment that goes something like this: “I need to order more
Depends on how you read that table (6.2.5.1). The way I read it, says that you
can only use ordinary temp heads if your maximum ceiling temperature is 100
degrees or less.
And you can only use intermediate temperature heads if your maximum ceiling
temperature is 150 degrees or less.
But it
n NFPA
13 outside of the ESFR section. It sure seems like if it's appropriate for ESFR
heads (arguably the most finicky with regard to spacing/obstructions) that the
same spacing should be OK for standard spray sprinklers.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprink
ood reason to believe that it is a "bad fire
protection practice".
I appreciate the input.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
21605 N. Central Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
kmontgom...@aerofire
for this, but I haven't found anything in NFPA
13 outside of the ESFR section. It sure seems like if it's appropriate for ESFR
heads (arguably the most finicky with regard to spacing/obstructions) that the
same spacing should be OK for standard spray sprinklers.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001
ng about
taking this to the AHJ to see if they would allow it, but I don't want to
suggest doing it if there is good reason to believe that it is a "bad fire
protection practice".
I appreciate the input.
Kyle Montgomery
[cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0]
Aero Automatic Sprinkle
Those are pretty expensive though, aren’t they? If you look at the sprinkler
cut sheets from Reliable (and others) they generally list the White Polyester
heads as “corrosion resistant” and we’ve used those. I don’t think the white
polys cost that much more than your standard sprinkler.
We’ve
Tolco has the Figure 4LA which goes up to 12” (FM-Approved). It’s basically a
pipe clamp with a built-in attachment to the brace pipe.
To answer your question, I think that the components of the assembly have to be
listed for use as a seismic brace. So I don’t think you can just grab any 10”
There is a section in NFPA that tells you when you need to use a return bend
and when you do not. NFPA 13 7.2.2.
I don’t see a reason why it would not be allowed to come directly out the
bottom of a 4” main, if you are otherwise allowed to come directly out the
bottom of a branch line. There
I always get a kick out of the “don’t forget, the code is just the MINIMUM”
comments. Like it’s borderline criminal to use the less restrictive code
requirements and that the contractors who do so are some kind of crooks that
have no consideration for the safety of building occupants or first
I wasn’t singling you out, Matt, just saying that’s the thought process of a
lot of people.
And it makes sense, if you’re an Engineer or work for a company that only does
design, it costs no more to draw a 6” main than a 3” main (for example). But it
costs someone about 4 times as much to
So, are we saying that he needs sprinklers above the ceilings, but that it is
OK to use standard spray in spaces less than 36” deep?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but isn’t one of the main reasons for attic
(combustible concealed space) heads because the standard spray pattern can’t
develop
Do you have a gauge on the suction side? If so, what does it read when the
jockey is off and when it is running?
-Kyle M
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Ben Hill
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 11:34 AM
To:
If money is no object, go to Young Engineering Manufacturing, Inc.
http://youngeng.com/surge-suppressors-bsa-fire/
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hairfield
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 6:02 AM
To:
So, in that case, would they be required to eliminate the non-indicating gate
valve? Or just add the PIV? I mean, if the gate valve is closed, it really
doesn’t matter what position the PIV is in.
I know there are some jurisdictions in Nevada where we’ve been required to
provide wall PIVs for
FYI, In most applications you can hold Control and scroll up on the mouse to
zoom in/increase text size. Just in case others aren’t as accommodating as Scot.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019
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