Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
The operative word is PROVISIONAL. - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 12:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Not really. But, is also depends on the nature of the error. Everyone has error in their theology, in my opinion. The question in my mind is how much error is too much error? How far can one get from the true meaning of the gospel message before they are outside of Christianity. While I cannot draw a hard line separatig those inside from those outside (since degree of error seems to be a contunuum), I can only identify groups that I believe are firmly inside or outside. There are basic beliefs that identify one as a Christian. Having the right Jesus and the right God is the starting point. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Judy:Give me the name of the church you attend. IFO would be please to personally call your pastor. I do not trust you as a conduit of his ideas. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 09:59 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not fr
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Ever the optimist, Lance once again asks Judy: Do you always and completely UNDERSTAND EMPLOY THEM (those Scriptures you cite) as God and the author means them? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 15:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:52:31 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. It is this constant bit ofjudging that renders your influence nil. Bit of judging? I am just reflecting back to Lance what he has already written to me, so how is it me that is judging - never him? They name streets after you JD. To speak as if you know anything at all about Lance and his attachment to the "promise" is not just misinformed -- it is a cheap ad hom . I don't profess to know the first thing about Lance JD. However, I do know something about the Promise of the Father and this is what the wonderful Lance negates in my life... so how is it you don't take up for me?? Lance is actually the one who is doing the judging. It is not "judging" to say that you do not understand scritpture - although such a statement involves a judgment. It is judging , however, when you put yourself in the place of God and make your determinations.jd By stating that I do not understand scripture Lance is putting himself in the place of God and so are you. From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do Lance, this is why I try to stick with scripture -in spite of your belief that all I have isregard for same. Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
JD is correct on this one, Judy. Do you, Judy, believe that in HAVING THE MIND OF CHRIST you are thereby INFALLIBLE IN BOTH YOUR SELECTION, UNDERSTANDING AND INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE. I believe it is possible for you to answer yes/no on this. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 15:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:25:51 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes to Dean: Amen Judy ? Get a life. You are one insulting somebody JD. Judy writes as if she knows the reading habits of the Bereans or the Apostle John.Since John is so obviously writing to those who are not of Jewish traditional thought, I would say his reading of others is substantial. Oh? so nowthe unlearned disciples have all of a sudden become scholars according to JD. John and his brother James, sons of Zebedee, fishermen on the sea of Galilee are now Seminary grads and know all about cultural distinctions and all that. I guess Peter had learned all this before giving his address on the day of Pentecost also . Get a grip JD. Paul is admittedly well read. What I do know is this - you and Judy speak of that which you cannot know. Why not? We have the mind of Christ don't we?Or are you, like Lance going to negate every promise to us sincewe do not speak in accord withyour great learning? You attach your interpretation of [even] historical conisiderations to your sense of reality and then, insist it is truth. Ridiculous in many instances. jd It may appear ridiculous to you JD but then God takes pleasure in hiding things from those who think themselves wise and prudent andHe likesrevealing things to babes. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 15:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Will you kindly interpret 'vain imaginations' for me/us? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 17:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Is it not possible, though actually attending this church, that YOU DON'T KNOW THIS PASTOR EITHER, Judy? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 18:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Once more you run right over the top of me JD; you don't respect me as a person or as another believer in Christ with a different take on just about everything. I would rather you disagree rationally stating why you don't see it the same as me. Your response is offensive just as offensive as putting words in my mouth. You don't know the pastor, the situation, or even what he preaches - yet you are more opinionated than even me. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:41:36 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh of course you do. This very response proves it !! :-) jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and pr
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Linda:Judy, as is frequently the case, misunderstood my post, unlike her infallible understanding of Scripture. I'd never think that either of you as subscribing to calvinism. INSOFAR AS I UNDERSTAND ALL TT PARTICIPANTS, NOT ONE SUBSCRIBES TO CALVINism! I'd becha on that. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 12:32 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Lance I cannot defend or denounce Calvin, as I am not that familiar with him. So far as I can tell, Im not in agreement with his doctrines, but am not interested enough to care. Sorry to disappoint you. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:34 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Are both Linda and DavidM IYO Calvinists Lance? Maybe it is not forthcoming because they are willing to allow someone to hold an opinion that is different from their own which is something your mentors could not abide and so it seems neither can you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:26:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where you reflect IGNORANCE and, choose to remain thus, I leave to your choosing. Where you choose to speak ill of God's servants, I await a warning from either David Miller or Linda Shields. Why, I wonder do I believe neither to be forthcoming? From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
After sitting in the pew for a year and a half I know enough about him and as a matter of fact I like him but we won't be going anywhere other than more bricks and mortar and more ss rooms.. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:42:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is it not possible, though actually attending this church, that YOU DON'T KNOW THIS PASTOR EITHER, Judy? From: Judy Taylor Once more you run right over the top of me JD; you don't respect me as a person or as another believer in Christ with a different take on just about everything. I would rather you disagree rationally stating why you don't see it the same as me. Your response is offensive just as offensive as putting words in my mouth. You don't know the pastor, the situation, or even what he preaches - yet you are more opinionated than even me. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:41:36 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh of course you do. This very response proves it !! :-) jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Foolish, empty, profitless imaginations, the kind that should be cast down. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:32:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Will you kindly interpret 'vain imaginations' for me/us? From: Judy Taylor Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
No JD is not correct on this one Lance. James and John were not scholars, neither were the Bereans. John was arrested along with Peter and brought before the High Priest (educated) in Jerusalem because they were acting like Street Preachers . and "Now when they (the educated and learned ones) saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus" (Acts 4:13) This should put it to rest for a reasonable person. You and JD do not understand the ministry of the Holy Spirit Lance. The Scriptures are spiritually rather than mentally appraised and so your question about "infallibility"is irrelevant except for the Vatican and in their economy the Pope is the only one who speaks ex-cathedra. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:30:17 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JD is correct on this one, Judy. Do you, Judy, believe that in HAVING THE MIND OF CHRIST you are thereby INFALLIBLE IN BOTH YOUR SELECTION, UNDERSTANDING AND INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE. I believe it is possible for you to answer yes/no on this. From: Judy Taylor On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:25:51 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes to Dean: Amen Judy ? Get a life. You are one insulting somebody JD. Judy writes as if she knows the reading habits of the Bereans or the Apostle John.Since John is so obviously writing to those who are not of Jewish traditional thought, I would say his reading of others is substantial. Oh? so nowthe unlearned disciples have all of a sudden become scholars according to JD. John and his brother James, sons of Zebedee, fishermen on the sea of Galilee are now Seminary grads and know all about cultural distinctions and all that. I guess Peter had learned all this before giving his address on the day of Pentecost also . Get a grip JD. Paul is admittedly well read. What I do know is this - you and Judy speak of that which you cannot know. Why not? We have the mind of Christ don't we?Or are you, like Lance going to negate every promise to us sincewe do not speak in accord withyour great learning? You attach your interpretation of [even] historical conisiderations to your sense of reality and then, insist it is truth. Ridiculous in many instances. jd It may appear ridiculous to you JD but then God takes pleasure in hiding things from those who think themselves wise and prudent andHe likesrevealing things to babes. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive y
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
By charismatic I mean charming and he is "educated". I've not met any Reformed ppl who areinto spiritual giftings but we get a lot of ppl from Regent University who drive 45 minutes to come out here which tells me there is a dearth at VA Beach also. This fellow is OK for historical background and a philosophical overview and ppl like the "look" of success so they keep joining the church. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! From: Judy Taylor No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
They are not his ideas Lance, Do you sell a Westminster Catechism at your Bookstore? You will find them in there if you have time to look up all the scriptures and fine print. This should keep you busy for a while. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:21:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Give me the name of the church you attend. IFO would be please to personally call your pastor. I do not trust you as a conduit of his ideas. From: Judy Taylor Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Funny but, that's kind of how I see 'your ideas'. Instead of the WC, you speak the ideas of J Finis Dake. He obviously kept YOU busy for quite a while. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:38 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles They are not his ideas Lance, Do you sell a Westminster Catechism at your Bookstore? You will find them in there if you have time to look up all the scriptures and fine print. This should keep you busy for a while. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:21:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Give me the name of the church you attend. IFO would be please to personally call your pastor. I do not trust you as a conduit of his ideas. From: Judy Taylor Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - th
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Isn't RU a 'charismatic' U? Maybe those who drive 45 min see what you cannot! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles By charismatic I mean charming and he is "educated". I've not met any Reformed ppl who areinto spiritual giftings but we get a lot of ppl from Regent University who drive 45 minutes to come out here which tells me there is a dearth at VA Beach also. This fellow is OK for historical background and a philosophical overview and ppl like the "look" of success so they keep joining the church. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! From: Judy Taylor No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Apparently you wear "J Finis Dake" eyeglasses when reading my posts Lance Makes sense. Do you sell his Bible also and check what I write with his notes? If so you are in even worse shape than what I had thought because I don't teach him and seldom refer to his lists these days. Whereas this Pastor teaches Reformed Theology from the Westminster Catechism to more than 700 families and has creedal type readings from same. Please get a life - Lance On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:50:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Funny but, that's kind of how I see 'your ideas'. Instead of the WC, you speak the ideas of J Finis Dake. He obviously kept YOU busy for quite a while. From: Judy Taylor They are not his ideas Lance, Do you sell a Westminster Catechism at your Bookstore? You will find them in there if you have time to look up all the scriptures and fine print. This should keep you busy for a while. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:21:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Give me the name of the church you attend. IFO would be please to personally call your pastor. I do not trust you as a conduit of his ideas. From: Judy Taylor Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
You keep wanting to card file everyone and everything Lance. Pat Robertson is charismatic - yes but that is not to say that everyone at Regent University believes this way - it is equal opportunity.His Hotel has been sold to a secular company. A lot of things happen because of the ebb and flow of the almighty dollar. My daughter's roomate worked at Regent for a while - calling a list of the big donors to see if they would give more $$ and she was shocked that they asked on the form she filled out if she spoke in tongues which is anathema in Reformed circles. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:52:06 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't RU a 'charismatic' U? Maybe those who drive 45 min see what you cannot! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles By charismatic I mean charming and he is "educated". I've not met any Reformed ppl who areinto spiritual giftings but we get a lot of ppl from Regent University who drive 45 minutes to come out here which tells me there is a dearth at VA Beach also. This fellow is OK for historical background and a philosophical overview and ppl like the "look" of success so they keep joining the church. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! From: Judy Taylor No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PRO
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
NOT, I repeat NOT, amongst some of the 'reformed believers' who regularly shop in this store. Like I've said concerning you on occasion, y'all otta get out more. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 09:02 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles You keep wanting to card file everyone and everything Lance. Pat Robertson is charismatic - yes but that is not to say that everyone at Regent University believes this way - it is equal opportunity.His Hotel has been sold to a secular company. A lot of things happen because of the ebb and flow of the almighty dollar. My daughter's roomate worked at Regent for a while - calling a list of the big donors to see if they would give more $$ and she was shocked that they asked on the form she filled out if she spoke in tongues which is anathema in Reformed circles. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:52:06 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't RU a 'charismatic' U? Maybe those who drive 45 min see what you cannot! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles By charismatic I mean charming and he is "educated". I've not met any Reformed ppl who areinto spiritual giftings but we get a lot of ppl from Regent University who drive 45 minutes to come out here which tells me there is a dearth at VA Beach also. This fellow is OK for historical background and a philosophical overview and ppl like the "look" of success so they keep joining the church. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! From: Judy Taylor No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin o
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
There is some weird charismania out there also that borders on the occult which is why a lot of the 'once Spirit led' groups in this area are not as they once were... SoI will neither accept or reject your claim. I personally believe there is a real but most of what we have been subject to is the false. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:18:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: NOT, I repeat NOT, amongst some of the 'reformed believers' who regularly shop in this store. Like I've said concerning you on occasion, y'all otta get out more. From: Judy Taylor You keep wanting to card file everyone and everything Lance. Pat Robertson is charismatic - yes but that is not to say that everyone at Regent University believes this way - it is equal opportunity. His Hotel has been sold to a secular company. A lot of things happen because of the ebb and flow of the almighty dollar. My daughter's roomate worked at Regent for a while - calling a list of the big donors to see if they would give more $$ and she was shocked that they asked on the form she filled out if she spoke in tongues which is anathema in Reformed circles. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:52:06 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't RU a 'charismatic' U? Maybe those who drive 45 min see what you cannot! From: Judy Taylor By charismatic I mean charming and he is "educated". I've not met any Reformed ppl who areinto spiritual giftings but we get a lot of ppl from Regent University who drive 45 minutes to come out here which tells me there is a dearth at VA Beach also. This fellow is OK for historical background and a philosophical overview and ppl like the "look" of success so they keep joining the church. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! From: Judy Taylor No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching
RE: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
This, coming from Lance??? Amazing, isnt it? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:27 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles How are you using 'charismatic'? IFF the Spirit of God is NOT present in this church Judy, flee immediately! IFF the Spirit of God IS present in this church Judy, then take care concerning those accusationslest you falsely accuse one of God's own. D**n Judy, but you're one c***y lady!! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 19, 2005 08:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles No, I figure God is able to keep us and our son is doing his own homework which is more than many. The missionary girl (just spent 7yrs in Ukraine) that just moved into an Apt with our youngest girl was raised in what they call the Reformed faith and has never questioned it. Many pew sitters want to be spoon fed by someone who is charismatic, entertaining, and has a good personality and if God doesn't show up - Oh well!! They wouldn't know the difference. On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 06:31:30 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you, Judy, concerned for your son/yourself in this church, under this pastor? From: Judy Taylor He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely he who has it going on rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of unbelief had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..is it better for a Christian to read the Bible or leave it on the shelf? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..it doesn't matter as long as its the KJV? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:36:33 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..is it better for a Christian to read the Bible or leave it on the shelf? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Why wouldn't a believer believe it? It is demonstrated right in the NT scriptures and it's called the Baptism of Jesus. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Judy:Please expand on 'The Baptism of Jesus' as you've come to understand it?. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 06:47 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Why wouldn't a believer believe it? It is demonstrated right in the NT scriptures and it's called the Baptism of Jesus. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
You might call them "orthodox unbelievers" who follow the doctrines of men rather than the WOG On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:20:48 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..if so, (we know they ain't classic Protestants, but :)are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 06:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I do Lance, this is why I try to stick with scripture -in spite of your belief that all I have isregard for same. Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
You will have to ask Jesus. He is the one who gives the condition which is abiding in His Word. Those who don't abide become dead branches - which are cut off and burned. His is the std. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 07:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Judy qualifies, IMO. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 07:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles You will have to ask Jesus. He is the one who gives the condition which is abiding in His Word. Those who don't abide become dead branches - which are cut off and burned. His is the std. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
It is all over the scriptures Lance - Promised in the OT and received in the NT John baptized and his baptism was one of repentance Luke 3:3 But Johnspoke of the baptism of Jesus Luke 12:50 Jesus spoke of it Himself ... Matt 3:11 It is reinterated in Acts 1:5 Receivedduring Passover Celebration in Jerusalem by believersActs 2:3,4 Peter calls it the "Promise of the Father" given to as manyas are called Acts 2:38,39 This was important enough for the apostles at Jerusalem to send Peter and John to pray for some Samaritans who had received John's baptism of repentance only Acts 8:15 They had been baptised in the name of Jesus but the Holy Ghost had not yet fallen on them. The gentiles at Cornelius house received throught the ministry of Peter Acts 11:16 How would these believers react to our present day message - that they were concerned and running about in vain when all they had to do was accept the right teaching about theincarnation? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 06:52:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Please expand on 'The Baptism of Jesus' as you've come to understand it?. From: Judy Taylor Why wouldn't a believer believe it? It is demonstrated right in the NT scriptures and it's called the Baptism of Jesus. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
And, I'm accused of DBP's? In this season of advent Judy,it is difficult to over emphasize the significance of the INCARNATION! Do you believe in baptism in the name of The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit or baptism in the name of Jesus ONLY? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 08:53 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles It is all over the scriptures Lance - Promised in the OT and received in the NT John baptized and his baptism was one of repentance Luke 3:3 But Johnspoke of the baptism of Jesus Luke 12:50 Jesus spoke of it Himself ... Matt 3:11 It is reinterated in Acts 1:5 Receivedduring Passover Celebration in Jerusalem by believersActs 2:3,4 Peter calls it the "Promise of the Father" given to as manyas are called Acts 2:38,39 This was important enough for the apostles at Jerusalem to send Peter and John to pray for some Samaritans who had received John's baptism of repentance only Acts 8:15 They had been baptised in the name of Jesus but the Holy Ghost had not yet fallen on them. The gentiles at Cornelius house received throught the ministry of Peter Acts 11:16 How would these believers react to our present day message - that they were concerned and running about in vain when all they had to do was accept the right teaching about theincarnation? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 06:52:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Please expand on 'The Baptism of Jesus' as you've come to understand it?. From: Judy Taylor Why wouldn't a believer believe it? It is demonstrated right in the NT scriptures and it's called the Baptism of Jesus. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Here we go again .. Now you are going to negate the whole teaching having to do with Jesus' baptism in the Holy Spirit over this "incarnational" thing along with the Nicean teaching about "trinity" - If it is a baptism of repentance then I am sure the Lord understands. What did Philip baptise the eunuch in the name of? Also where did "this season of advent" come from Lance? Jesus wasn't born on December 25th was He? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:59:50 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And, I'm accused of DBP's? In this season of advent Judy,it is difficult to over emphasize the significance of the INCARNATION! Do you believe in baptism in the name of The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit or baptism in the name of Jesus ONLY? From: Judy Taylor It is all over the scriptures Lance - Promised in the OT and received in the NT John baptized and his baptism was one of repentance Luke 3:3 But Johnspoke of the baptism of Jesus Luke 12:50 Jesus spoke of it Himself ... Matt 3:11 It is reinterated in Acts 1:5 Receivedduring Passover Celebration in Jerusalem by believersActs 2:3,4 Peter calls it the "Promise of the Father" given to as manyas are called Acts 2:38,39 This was important enough for the apostles at Jerusalem to send Peter and John to pray for some Samaritans who had received John's baptism of repentance only Acts 8:15 They had been baptised in the name of Jesus but the Holy Ghost had not yet fallen on them. The gentiles at Cornelius house received throught the ministry of Peter Acts 11:16 How would these believers react to our present day message - that they were concerned and running about in vain when all they had to do was accept the right teaching about theincarnation? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 06:52:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judy:Please expand on 'The Baptism of Jesus' as you've come to understand it?. From: Judy Taylor Why wouldn't a believer believe it? It is demonstrated right in the NT scriptures and it's called the Baptism of Jesus. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 09:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a li
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Where you reflect IGNORANCE and, choose to remain thus, I leave to your choosing. Where you choose to speak ill of God's servants, I await a warning from either David Miller or Linda Shields. Why, I wonder do I believe neither to be forthcoming? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 09:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'cam
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Are both Linda and DavidM IYO Calvinists Lance? Maybe it is not forthcoming because they are willing to allow someone to hold an opinion that is different from their own which is something your mentors could not abide and so it seems neither can you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:26:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where you reflect IGNORANCE and, choose to remain thus, I leave to your choosing. Where you choose to speak ill of God's servants, I await a warning from either David Miller or Linda Shields. Why, I wonder do I believe neither to be forthcoming? From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Oh yaa...wellsputter...sputter...ya gots me! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 18, 2005 09:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Are both Linda and DavidM IYO Calvinists Lance? Maybe it is not forthcoming because they are willing to allow someone to hold an opinion that is different from their own which is something your mentors could not abide and so it seems neither can you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:26:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where you reflect IGNORANCE and, choose to remain thus, I leave to your choosing. Where you choose to speak ill of God's servants, I await a warning from either David Miller or Linda Shields. Why, I wonder do I believe neither to be forthcoming? From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now,
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/18/2005 9:22:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. It is this constant bit ofjudging that renders your influence nil. To speak as if you know anything at all about Lance and his attachment to the "promise" is not just misinformed -- it is a cheap ad hom . And be sure to respond with "yeah, but he did this and that " My kids used to justify themselves in the very same manner, It is not "judging" to say that you do not understand scritpture - although such a statement involves a judgment. It is judging , however, when you put yourself in the place of God and make your determinations. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do Lance, this is why I try to stick with scripture -in spite of your belief that all I have isregard for same. Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Maybe you should ask your Calvinist pastor? -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Gary wrote, CPL, Are [Bible] readers *who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets'* Christian/s? [asterisks by CPL] Depends. Were these Bible readers Christians to begin with? I don't think that having that belief alone determines whether or not one is a Christian.. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Not really. But, is also depends on the nature of the error. Everyone has error in their theology, in my opinion. The question in my mind is how much error is too much error? How far can one get from the true meaning of the gospel message before they are outside of Christianity. While I cannot draw a hard line separatig those inside from those outside (since degree of error seems to be a contunuum), I can only identify groups that I believe are firmly inside or outside. There are basic beliefs that identify one as a Christian. Having the right Jesus and the right God is the starting point. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Gary, I do not classify who is a Christian and who is not along denominational lines. Christians are those who are members of the body of Christ. You can tell when one of them becomes a Christian...at the same time they become an ex-them. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
If they were, they would be ex-them. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:20:48 -0700 ..if so, (we know they ain't classic Protestants, but :) are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I qualified that in a previous post. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as truly Christian? :) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers who believe that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted 'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good] to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
If you are still addressing me, Gary, it is absolutely better to read it. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:36:33 -0700 ..is it better for a Christian to read the Bible or leave it on the shelf? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as truly Christian? :) || -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Amen Judy ? Get a life. Judy writes as if she knows the reading habits of the Bereans or the Apostle John. Since John is so obviously writing to those who are not of Jewish traditional thought, I would say his reading of others is substantial.Paul is admittedly well read. What I do know is this - you and Judy speak of that which you cannot know. You attach your interpretation of [even] historical conisiderations to your sense of reality and then, insist it is truth. Ridiculous in many instances. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/18/2005 9:22:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Gary, While I prefer the KJV, I am not a KJV only advocate and believe that the crimson thread of salvation is evident in all of the popular translations, and all can lead one to salvation. However, when one begins to study the Bible more deeply, I believe that comparing several translations, and even using a greek dictionary at times to resolve disagreements, can help to understand difficult passages. Perry From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:38:56 -0700 ..it doesn't matter as long as its the KJV? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:36:33 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..is it better for a Christian to read the Bible or leave it on the shelf? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as truly Christian? :) || -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Lance I cannot defend or denounce Calvin, as I am not that familiar with him. So far as I can tell, Im not in agreement with his doctrines, but am not interested enough to care. Sorry to disappoint you. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:34 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles Are both Linda and DavidM IYO Calvinists Lance? Maybe it is not forthcoming because they are willing to allow someone to hold an opinion that is different from their own which is something your mentors could not abide and so it seems neither can you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:26:02 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where you reflect IGNORANCE and, choose to remain thus, I leave to your choosing. Where you choose to speak ill of God's servants, I await a warning from either David Miller or Linda Shields. Why, I wonder do I believe neither to be forthcoming? From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher godspeed for if they did they would be a partaker of his evil deeds If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:52:31 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. It is this constant bit ofjudging that renders your influence nil. Bit of judging? I am just reflecting back to Lance what he has already written to me, so how is it me that is judging - never him? They name streets after you JD. To speak as if you know anything at all about Lance and his attachment to the "promise" is not just misinformed -- it is a cheap ad hom . I don't profess to know the first thing about Lance JD. However, I do know something about the Promise of the Father and this is what the wonderful Lance negates in my life... so how is it you don't take up for me?? Lance is actually the one who is doing the judging. It is not "judging" to say that you do not understand scritpture - although such a statement involves a judgment. It is judging , however, when you put yourself in the place of God and make your determinations.jd By stating that I do not understand scripture Lance is putting himself in the place of God and so are you. From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] I do Lance, this is why I try to stick with scripture -in spite of your belief that all I have isregard for same. Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Amen! for that. Now, other than the blessed internet, how much of John Calvin's own writings,have you actually read. Do you possess anything whatsoever by him? If all that you know of him would be classed as 'hearsay' then do cease and desist from your unfounded allegations hereafter.Stick to that which you claim to understand, please?. From: Judy Taylor Sure they do, they camp around John Calvin don't they? Why do you think there are so many different doctrines all claiming to be the truth? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:25:51 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes to Dean: Amen Judy ? Get a life. You are one insulting somebody JD. Judy writes as if she knows the reading habits of the Bereans or the Apostle John.Since John is so obviously writing to those who are not of Jewish traditional thought, I would say his reading of others is substantial. Oh? so nowthe unlearned disciples have all of a sudden become scholars according to JD. John and his brother James, sons of Zebedee, fishermen on the sea of Galilee are now Seminary grads and know all about cultural distinctions and all that. I guess Peter had learned all this before giving his address on the day of Pentecost also . Get a grip JD. Paul is admittedly well read. What I do know is this - you and Judy speak of that which you cannot know. Why not? We have the mind of Christ don't we?Or are you, like Lance going to negate every promise to us sincewe do not speak in accord withyour great learning? You attach your interpretation of [even] historical conisiderations to your sense of reality and then, insist it is truth. Ridiculous in many instances. jd It may appear ridiculous to you JD but then God takes pleasure in hiding things from those who think themselves wise and prudent andHe likesrevealing things to babes. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:52:31 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. It is this constant bit ofjudging that renders your influence nil. Bit of judging? I am just reflecting back to Lance what he has already written to me, so how is it me that is judging - never him? They name streets after you JD. Where has Lance ever judged your faith in God and Christ, your commitment to scripture, your claim to salvation , or your practice of the faith? NOWHERE. You , on the other, make such sommits a way of life. To speak as if you know anything at all about Lance and his attachment to the "promise" is not just misinformed -- it is a cheap ad hom . I don't profess to know the first thing about Lance JD. However, I do know something about the Promise of the Father and this is what the wonderful Lance negates in my life... so how is it you don't take up for me?? see above Lance is actually the one who is doing the judging. It is not "judging" to say that you do not understand scritpture - although such a statement involves a judgment. It is judging , however, when you put yourself in the place of God and make your determinations.jd By stating that I do not understand scripture Lance is putting himself in the place of God and so are you. absolute nonsense. We are told to oppose the false teacher, correct? This implies that we can make judgments as to whether one understands or not. You do it[judgeother's understandingin regard to thewritten word] all the time -- all the time. It is the theme of nearly every single post you have written since I have been on this forum. You have isolated yourself to such a degree that your personal theology is not the majority opinion of any group of disciples. Now, I know that you don't care -- but such is the reason for your weirdness when it comes to "biblcial teaching."It is not wihtin man to direct his own steps. Your "hermeneutic" is a testament to the truth of that thought. I have praised you several times in the past -- but you have not improved with the passing of time. Just the opposite. You come across like an abusive mother. Sometimes it gets tiring. It is truly upsetting to see you so negative and yet, so attached to the same God I and lance and Bill and Gary and Debbie and and and serve.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With apologies (sort of) in advance to David Miller and Linda Shields, I ask you once again, Judy: Do you believe that you are MORE DISCERNING THAN JOHN CALVIN? IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:45:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: absolute nonsense. We are told to oppose the false teacher, correct? This implies that we can make judgments as to whether one understands or not. You do it[judgeother's understandingin regard to thewritten word] all the time -- all the time. It is the theme of nearly every single post you have written since I have been on this forum. You have isolated yourself to such a degree that your personal theology is not the majority opinion of any group of disciples. Now, I know that you don't care -- but such is the reason for your weirdness when it comes to "biblcial teaching."It is not wihtin man to direct his own steps. Your "hermeneutic" is a testament to the truth of that thought. I have praised you several times in the past -- but you have not improved with the passing of time. Just the opposite. You come across like an abusive mother. Sometimes it gets tiring. It is truly upsetting to see you so negative and yet, so attached to the same God I and lance and Bill and Gary and Debbie and and and serve. I don't believe He is the same god JD because what you and the others write is very complicated and at times incomprehensible - It is alwaysmixture - which God hates. We will see who is left standing at the last day. In the meantime a little less aggression and a little more humility from youmight help. Oh well, guess the Promise does not mean as much to you. It is this constant bit ofjudging that renders your influence nil. Bit of judging? I am just reflecting back to Lance what he has already written to me, so how is it me that is judging - never him? They name streets after you JD. Where has Lance ever judged your faith in God and Christ, your commitment to scripture, your claim to salvation , or your practice of the faith? NOWHERE. You , on the other, make such sommits a way of life. To speak as if you know anything at all about Lance and his attachment to the "promise" is not just misinformed -- it is a cheap ad hom . I don't profess to know the first thing about Lance JD. However, I do know something about the Promise of the Father and this is what the wonderful Lance negates in my life... so how is it you don't take up for me??Lance is actually the one who is doing the judging. It is not "judging" to say that you do not understand scritpture - although such a statement involves a judgment. It is judging , however, when you put yourself in the place of God and make your determinations.jd By stating that I do not understand scripture Lance is putting himself in the place of God and so are you. absolute nonsense. We are told to oppose the false teacher, correct? This implies that we can make judgments as to whether one understands or not. You do it[judgeother's understandingin regard to thewritten word] all the time -- all the time. It is the theme of nearly every single post you have written since I have been on this forum. You have isolated yourself to such a degree that your personal theology is not the majority opinion of any group of disciples. Now, I know that you don't care -- but such is the reason for your weirdness when it comes to "biblcial teaching."It is not wihtin man to direct his own steps. Your "hermeneutic" is a testament to the truth of that thought. I have praised you several times in the past -- but you have not improved with the passing of time. Just the opposite. You come across like an abusive mother. Sometimes it gets tiring. It is truly upsetting to see you so negative and yet, so attached to the same God I and lance and Bill and Gary and Debbie and and and serve. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
[TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
JD Lance's savior writes: Where has Lance ever judged your faith in God and Christ, your commitment to scripture, your claim to salvation , or your practice of the faith? NOWHERE. You , on the other, make such sommits a way of life. The following JD is a judgment; Lances judgment with which you no doubt will fully concur; just don't claim he never made it lest you be found a liar. IMO, your regard for Scriptures appears to be second to nobody on TT. (regard NOT being the same thing as understanding). However, you do indeed appear to read/study and live it insofar as you are enabled. Scripture is a primary source for you. Lance So, Lance says I have a regard for scripture and I read/study it so far as I am enabled . Whoop-de-do The Word of God says something entirely different - and I know where my faith lies.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Oh of course you do. This very response proves it !! :-) jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if not from him? What should we call doctrine taken from his institutes and taught in our 20th Century Churches? Can I call it teachings of Calvin that Lance calls hearsay? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:07:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Once more you run right over the top of me JD; you don't respect me as a person or as another believer in Christ with a different take on just about everything. I would rather you disagree rationally stating why you don't see it the same as me. Your response is offensive just as offensive as putting words in my mouth. You don't know the pastor, the situation, or even what he preaches - yet you are more opinionated than even me. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:41:36 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh of course you do. This very response proves it !! :-) jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike some - I don't entertain vain imaginations JD - On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, he sounds like a wonderful pastor. And I bet that God has much more to do with his life that you could (obviously) imagine. Whose next on your list -- the BSF?? From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] He does JD and if he left almost the whole church would go with him. It is definitely "he" who has it "going on" rather thanthe Lord. You would like him. You could laugh at all his jokes appreciate all the books he has read and cites in his sermons and join his pastorlyfollowing especially since you are pleased to accommodate Calvinism - you'd probably fit right in. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 17:27:22 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your pastors name? Sounds as though he has it going on ! jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
what you and the others write is very complicated and at times Look, so you don't careabout my writing style. That post I did most recently - about creation and the redemptive nature of God (?) I am telling you things would be happier for you if you take something like -- or one of Bill's articles -- and take enough time to get the meaning. If you miss the point of how a word is used (I had trouble with "economic trinity" and "immanent trinity" for example - among many other expressions) either wait and read - it will come to you or ask someone -- off line if it ismore comfortable for you -- and THEN, let those words and thoughts present to you what it is you believe. Truth is truth - but the truth has its many nuances, Judy.Such is an intimate characteristic of truth. It is why , in part, we can keep coming back to the written word, over and over again, reading the very same verses wit h the expectation of God once again moving in our lives through the written word. You have no idea, Judy Taylor, what a force for truth you could actually be . You have the passion of ten street preachers and a reverence for the biblical message that is exceptional. Let's just say that I am wrong much more than I am right -- a crazy notion but let's pretend. There you are and here I am . You have my thinking in your sight, on the screen, and youare certain thatyou need to fashion a response.What next. Well, if you are really concernedfor changing a heart and mind on a given point -- and shouldn't that be your concern? -- you first need to need to get yourself tuned in to the persons dearest concerns. I have been around for awhile, now. There are certain patterns to my responses -- patterns that I may not eve n be aware of . But one thing for sure - when you or Kevin or Linda put me into the lake of fire, insisting that my god is not your God -- I am going to rain on your parade. Its like calling Michal Fox "chicken" in those back to the furture movies. So, don't do that !!! The discussion is over before it begins. You are no longer writing to correct - Rather, you are simply arguing if you are not trying to take the opponent with you.. Go ahead and justify this by referring to the angry Christ in the temple. So what !!! If your purpose is to bring the opponent (that would be me, in this case) out of the darkness ACT LIKE YOU CARE , THAT YOU ARE HIS FRIEND and work from that premise. I referred to the weirdness of your theology. Actually, Judy, I enjoy reading the creative ideas of others. I am going through a series right now, on CD, a presentation in part, of a college prof who is not afraid to think "outside the box." You do this all the time. In fact, the novelty of your understanding is remarkable. But when you deny that it exists, when you use it to destroy your opponent (creation should always be an act of love) , the response from thinking people will always be what you have experienced here on TT. If you ever said "OK, Mr John, I undertand what you are saying. But what if this were true and (then you presented your case foir truth),"what do you think would be the response? I will tell of my response. First, I would have to get up off the floor, and then put all the computer stuff back on to the desk. Afterwards, perhaps a red beer or two (do you know that I only have maybe 5 or six per year ?) . Then I would say to myself -- "ok she is trying to benice about her disagreement" and I would respond in kind. But more than that - if you actually had a point, I would listen and explore your comments. That is how friends deal with friends. And I love novelty - as long as it leads to something revealing of God. Do you know what I think about my firends on this site? I write some of these "thological" statements and get no response. Do they (my firends ) agree or disagree. I fear at times, that they are so concerned about the friendship that they do not care to venture a complaint. Thats what I think. Now, if they attach to that concern the notion that God will work it our in the life of John Smithson, I can respecttheir omission. Years ago, in my twenties, I read the words "crisis theology." Those two words opened the door to a whole style of communication for me. I do not mind getting into a knock down drag out if there is a happy ending to the matter. Happy endings are a part of the crisis because they are the end of the crisis. Sure, I take it too far, at times, but I can change attitudes on a dime. You do not.. But you can. I probably am so deeply under yor skin that you will never give a hoot about this or anything else I say. So be it - and I am truly sorry for that . But here you are, in a group of heavy hitters. The reason why not a single person on this list lays down and says, "run over me - I like it" is because each feels the same passion you do and is fully convinced of their inclusion into the family of God. So, leave that alone. The conversation is never about that circumstance , anyway. Let that
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 12/18/2005 10:00:01 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of "unregenerate" gentiles Hi Dean: Thanks for your response and please pray for me. I am in a Reformed Church right now ONLY to encourage our son and DIL who want to raise our grandson in Church but the more I learn about it the worse it becomes. Our Pastor is smart, charismatic, and has been to three different Bible schools and in four different denoms. He has a Phd andTHIS is what he has chosen? It boggles the mind. Last week he was teaching usthat the sin of "unbelief" had been taken care of at the cross. So I guess that makes the whole of Romans 11 null and void and no branches have to be concerned about beingcut off and burned. The elect have it made in the shade but noone seems to be able to know for sure who they are. It's confusion at best and an antiChrist spirit at worst. Don't know whether or not I can stay the course. Hi Judy: I know exactly what you are dealing with-The problem I have with these types of Churches is that when one needs prayer who in such a church will be able to pray with strength. To me-those types of belief is the same as another gospel-it is certainly not the one delivered to the saints. My suggestion is to find one that is of a Armenian/Wesleyan belief as you are of that spirit. The Church I went to this morning is part baptist and part Methodist-each preacher has two weeks out of the month to preach. Today I asked the Methodist preacher if he has concerns about Calvinist influences and it effect on the people. He stated that his mother and him had the very same discussion this morning. I found out later that the Methodist were leaving the joint church-He asked me to go with him -so I will find out what Methodist use for faith.Although my heart is with the Wesleyians church. Maybe we can pray for each other:-) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:47:58 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: cd: Amen Judy for their fruits are enough-Studying their teaching apart from their works is the reason those -who support Calvin-on this site are confused. We see their work so we have no need for their teachings.We don't have to study the Satanic Bible to know our enemy for truth sheds a bright light onhim already. The Bible teaches to look at their fruits and their works is what God Judges every man by-so we can also use God tool to know them. From: Judy Taylor I have yet to hurl anepithet anywhere Lance. My objectionto Calvinism is for some very specific reasons with or without "firsthand knowledge or intricate and specific detail" about Calvin the man.His teachings are enough. I will leave the man to God. I have no desire to be an expert on John Calvin the man or any other anti-Christ (meaning in place of) figure for that matter and this would include Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, et al. along to the present Papacy both rc and protestant. I am happy to leave you to tend to them while I press on to know the Lord and the power of His resurrection in my daily life. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:12:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Were I prone to worry Judy, YOU would not be among those about whom I would. Why? I perceive you to be a completely and utterly genuine believer, who esteems the Scriptures highly and who lives what she believes. Now, when it comes to the hurling of epithets at those servants of God about whom you possess no firsthand knowledge, I'd put you alongside DaveH and Blainer and their knowledge of the TRUE GOSPEL. (Believe it or not, this is a sort of compliment, Judy) From: Judy Taylor I wonder if the Bereans had done any reading of primary source material when they examined what Paul preached. Also the apostle John, I wonder if he had read source materialwhen he exhorted 1st Century Christians not to even wish a false teacher "godspeed" for if they did they would be a "partaker of his evil deeds" If I were prone to worry you would worry me Lance. You are more concerned about these men than you are about Jesus Himself and the ministry of the Spirit of Christ. IMO you need to do more primary reading fromthe source of all Truth - then you will more accurately be qualified to discern between good and evil. Your qualifications are not those of Christ. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:26:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: YOU JUDY are not entitled to call it anything, IMO. You've not done, insofar as I know, any reading of primary source material (2 vol Institutes, Commentaries). It's akin to hearing an atheist condemn the teachings of the Scriptures based upon the same sort of evidentiary inquiry that you've conducted with John Calvin. From: Judy Taylor Would Calvinistic heresay be acceptable Lance? Where did the doctrine called Calvinism come from if
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
In a message dated 12/17/2005 12:41:17 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible I think it was Lance who asked DaveH and/or I what our perception of traditional Christianity was. Please forgive me for not having the post ready at hand--I think it got lost somewhere, but I recall it well enough to talk about it, anyway, I believe. The short but sweet discussion above about covers my perception of one of the main characteristics of Traditional Christianity--lots of disagreement, even when it comes to the same passages in the Bible. Mainstream Christians talk about the "Church" as if it were one, but this appears to be more lip service than reality. The hard reality, as I see it, is that although we have been blessed with a bible, we can't agree on what it says. I am very much impressed with the work of the great reformers, especially Tyndale, who had eight different languages at his disposal, but I see his work and the works of most other reformers as being a prelude to the restoration of the Gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon and other books, not an end in itself. To my view, the Protestant reformation was of God--most definitely!! Unfortunately, most Protestants reached the unjustified conclusion that making the Bible available to the common man, which again I believe was clearly one of God's great works, meant it was OK to say "lo here," and "lo there," as every man and his brother then became self-styled experts on what it all meant. Fortunately, God saw the confusion, and called upon his servant Joseph Smith and others to rectify the condition--thus the coming forth of the Book of Mormon!! End of first installment. More later, if I do not get submerged in one of TT's endless controversies!
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Note please, disagreement on the meaning of Matt 7-11? More Christian disagreement? Blainerb :) In a message dated 12/17/2005 4:25:33 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs... You sure don't read too accurately do you JD? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:10 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
no myth in this--that you supremely regard only your empty-headed regard for it is accurate; evidence shows that no one who really loves JC demonstrates the accute disdain for (his) ppl that ppl like you exhibit On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:14:48 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I try to stick with scripture -in spite of your belief that all I have isregard for same. ||
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
A second post with the same theme. Unity of thought on a large scale only exists in the presense of some type of tyranny or imposed authority. The fact that the Mormon church does not allow for such is not an advantage to my way of thinking. The fact that the Mormon religion does not agree with with the First and PreApostate Church including the First Scriptures is also a troubling circumstance. The fact that Mormon Jewish history is so different from Jewish Jewish history is not a plus either. And the fact that Mormonism does not understand the redemptive act of Christ is devastating. The notion, Blaine, that there is much blood in the garden, that Christ's sweat was blood --- where does that come from. Certainly not the biblical message. Except for Peter's attack on the Roman guard, I doubt there was a single drop of blood in the garden.Reliance on guess work and fabled tradition are not a part oftheChristian Faith you have been exposed to here on TT. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Note please, disagreement on the meaning of Matt 7-11? More Christian disagreement? Blainerb :) In a message dated 12/17/2005 4:25:33 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs... You sure don't read too accurately do you JD? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:10 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point.
[TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Since ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God These should put to rest whether or not unregenerates have God's Law written on their hearts (in them) and whetherit is possible for them to do "by nature" the things that are written in God's Law as per Rom 2:14,15 Paul writes tothe church(called out ones) at Ephesus: "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart. Who being past feeling have given themselves over to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ." (Ephesians 4:17-20) Grace and Peace, judyt
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
here you prove you are given to radically manipulatingAuthority in more ways than one; here you clearlyenforceyour own dualisticdouble standard mouthingtruthgiven to biblical saintsas platitudes fromreligious republicanism which equatesthe reign ofChrist to enforcing therule of elitist 'mammon' in sum, the effectiveteaching of the verse, below,is exactly the reverse of your manipulative intent On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:46:01 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Dualistic nothing and manipulating nothing Gary; I quoted scripture as written in the KJV Bible If you have a dispute about it - it is not with me. If you can not receive it - this is your problem not mine.. Not everyone is able to receive sound doctrine and Ephesians 4:17-20 as is - is sound ... "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart. Who being past feeling have given themselves over to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ." (Ephesians 4:17-20) Are you in possession of a "renewed mind" yourself Gary?? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:30:39 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: here you prove you are given to radically manipulatingAuthority in more ways than one; here you clearlyenforceyour own dualisticdouble standard mouthingtruthgiven to biblical saintsas platitudes fromreligious republicanism which equatesthe reign ofChrist to enforcing therule of elitist 'mammon' in sum, the effectiveteaching of the verse, below,is exactly the reverse of your manipulative intent On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:46:01 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Have no idea or frame of reference as to what you are talking about Best drift back off into Dylan land. Sorry to have disturbed you, if briefly On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:20:52 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: prop up your bi-focals, M'am--it's all there--recently, too and, FTR,re-think tryin' to manipulate me: terman issue 'old', then, (try to) force it to become redundant--you'll cement your combative reputation only at your own expense On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:56:08 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs... You sure don't read too accurately do you JD? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:10 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say he's hard-of-hearin', say that he's a chump, he's out of step with reality as you try to test his nerve because he doesn't pay no tribute to the kingdom that you serve.He's the property of JesusResent him to the boneYou got something better, yehYou've got a heart of stone'
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
You are not being honest, here. This is the specific exchange: You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). jd Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit but these people are already born again believers. jt Your explanation is used to argue against points that I have made. Why would you use angument against me that you do not believe. So much for illumination. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs... You sure don't read too accurately do you JD? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:10 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
moved to hard copy and saved to my journal. Excellent stuff. -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say he's hard-of-hearin', say that he's a chump, he's out of step with reality as you try to test his nerve because he doesn't pay no tribute to the kingdom that you serve.He's the property of JesusResent him to the boneYou got something better, yehYou've got a heart of stone'
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I see it as a statement rather than an argument. In churches I have been in Matt 7:11 is used this way. On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:42:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are not being honest, here. This is the specific exchange: You are reaching, here. What is the difference to Judy between good works and "normal christianity." Is the giving of good gifts something we do (ala Matt 7:11). jd Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit but these people are already born again believers. jt Your explanation is used to argue against points that I have made. Why would you use angument against me that you do not believe. So much for illumination. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read what I said again JD and stop putting words in my mouth I was not interpreting Matt 7:11 to mean this; I merely said that ppl in churches that believe in the spiritual gifts use this verse to encourage people to seek the baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is not my view, it is theirs... You sure don't read too accurately do you JD? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:48:10 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Your view that Mattt 7:11 is talking about the reception of the baptism of the Holy spirit is the most recent case in point. jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Where and how? Evidence please? Your ongoing consistent accusations are a bit old Gary; you need to give a foundation for these accusations. So show me how this scripture is manipulated and evidence that this is clearly proven. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:38:49 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you manipulate it too, as clearly proven On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:28:17 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || I quote..scripture as written in the KJV Bible judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Really JD?? So is your journal full of gibberish or is this the exception? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:50:16 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to hard copy and saved to my journal. Excellent stuff. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say he's hard-of-hearin', say that he's a chump, he's out of step with reality as you try to test his nerve because he doesn't pay no tribute to the kingdom that you serve.He's the property of JesusResent him to the boneYou got something better, yehYou've got a heart of stone' judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
Take a pill, Judy. Near as I can figure, you either don't like Dylan or you can't sing. My journal is acompilation of those things spoken or written that effected me, emotionally. They are statements that struck me as powerful. I have found that when I need a "pick me up," I can sit down and read this journal. I have found that these statements or thoughts have the same effect on me now, as they did way back when. Here ae a few examples, sense you asked: One of the girls in my youth class made this comment about a classmate who had been killed in a car accident: "I know she has gone to heaven and God is so lucky to have her there." Without compassion, authority is tyranny" (Chief Bannion, The District) God's proclamation that he is the great I AM is not so much a statement of His eternity as it is a statement of His dependability -- Gloria Copeland Coming to the Lord is always an inside job - pastor Kieth God thinks you are special - just like everyone else" Terry Clifton 9/19/04 If you always do what you have always done, you will always be what you've always been. Steve Spencer. Pain is mandatory -- misery is optional -- Jody and Richard the Prophet Love is an activity, not a responce Jeff Mabee (5/21/98) Before Christ, I practice sin and committed righteousness. After Christ, I practice righteousness and commit sin. me 5/30/98 I want to learn God through experience, not theory. I think God is crying out and shouting to us "Don't just do something, stand there." Henry Backaby Hold your partner in honor is the key to a great marriage. True worship is the exchange of life for life worship leader at Valley Christian (11/99) Times change but people don't -- or is it better said, they won't ? me again Wisdom has nothing to do with knowledge and everything to do with peace, gentleness, and mercy James 3:17 Humilty is always the result of having actually encountered God In Christ, you are more than you have become pastor Larry Briney jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Really JD?? So is your journal full of gibberish or is this the exception? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 01:50:16 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: moved to hard copy and saved to my journal. Excellent stuff. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:22:31 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dylan land..where 'the whip that's keeping you in line doesn't make him jump,Say he's hard-of-hearin', say that he's a chump, he's out of step with reality as you try to test his nerve because he doesn't pay no tribute to the kingdom that you serve.He's the property of JesusResent him to the boneYou got something better, yehYou've got a heart of stone' judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
I wrote a post outlining several differences between Mormonism and Christianity - today. Did that post? it didn't come to me and comcast does not save what was written. Could someone please send it back to me. Thanks jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..if so, (we know they ain't classic Protestants, but :)are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..mercy me (the same question again,Bro--but did you ever wonder how much error actually qualifies Bible readers as trulyChristian? :) On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:16:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..while they (we know they:) ain't Protestants, are they Christians? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:11:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..do Bible readers 'camp' around theological error in your neck of the woods? On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:00:30 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Re: [TruthTalk] Condition of heart of unregenerate gentiles
..jt says they go to church On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:36:23 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || CPL, Are [Bible] readers whobelieve that JC taught that encouraging the baptism of the HS for the already converted'sums up the Law and Prophets' Christian/s? On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:01:39 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: || Matt 7:11 is a scripture that is used to encourage people to seek the Baptism in the Holy Spirit... jt || -- for reference: 7:12So in everything, do [the good]to others [t]hat you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
