Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jouni Valkonen
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude : > Well it might be if the reactor were at the bottom of a tea pot, and the > output at the top of the pot. But the input and output to the reactor are > both horizontal at the same level. here was your misunderstanding. This is not true, because water input is at the same l

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Horace Heffner wrote: > > It is notable that the power input varies depending on the controller > actions, that if the power input (plus any nuclear output heat if any) > should become less than that required to convert all the input water to > steam then the liquid

[Vo]:Randall Mills Debunks Rossi in Yahoo's SocietyforClassicalPhysics

2011-06-24 Thread kbar42915
Re: [SocietyforClassicalPhysics] Hydrinos vs. "Recent Extraordinary Cold Fusion Claims" On Jun 22, 2011, at 12:55 AM, scarmani wrote: > Dear Dr. Mills, > > In the email post below, you state "If you are looking for a > theoretical explanation for recent extraordinary cold fusion > claims, my as

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Jouni Valkonen wrote: > > >> It is important that tea pot does not overflow, because it messes up >> calculations, because steam is not dry anymore. Therefore E-Cat's >> inner volume has to be big enough to account power fluctuations >> beca

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote: > > > Well, that would explain the temperature regulation, but it's not exactly > > the same, because there is no pump pushing whatever is in the ecat, > > vaporized or not, out. In the case of the teapot, the exiting steam > leaves > > as it

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Joshua Cude wrote: > > element is always completely submerged. I.E. input flow is adjusted so >>> that it matches evaporation rate. >>> >> >> First of all, the flow rate is not adjusted in any of the demos after the >> experiment is started.

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Joshua Cude wrote: > > Nope. When you put 800 W into something like this, a large fraction of it >>> radiates from the cell into the surroundings. >>> >> >> The cell is insulated. >> > > It is too hot to touch according to witnesses. > Whic

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: element is always completely submerged. I.E. input flow is adjusted so >> that it matches evaporation rate. >> > > First of all, the flow rate is not adjusted in any of the demos after the > experiment is started. > Correct. Only the anomalous heat output is adjusted. The on

[Vo]:The WD Files on Rossi (3 of 4) - Interview Transcript June 9 2011

2011-06-24 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (3 of 4) - Interview Transcript June 9 2011 DISCLAIMER: Readers may agree or disagree with what has been transcribed, or how I went about assembling (and editing) the information for vortex-l. That is to be expected. In the end, please evaluate it using your own in

[Vo]:The WD Files on Rossi (2 of 4) - Interview Transcript March 5 2011

2011-06-24 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (2 of 4) - Interview Transcript March 5 2011 DISCLAIMER: Readers may agree or disagree with what has been transcribed, or how I went about assembling (and editing) the information for vortex-l. That is to be expected. In the end, please evaluate it using your own i

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Jouni Valkonen wrote: > It is important that tea pot does not overflow, because it messes up > calculations, because steam is not dry anymore. Therefore E-Cat's > inner volume has to be big enough to account power fluctuations > because peak power can surge over 120 kW. On the other hand if all

[Vo]:The WD Files on Rossi (4 of 4) - Personal Assessments & Conclusions

2011-06-24 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (4 of 4) - Personal Assessments & Conclusions The source of this information is of an unorthodox nature. I cannot vouch for its authenticity. I know of no traditional scientific way of going about verifying the accuracy of where this information might have bee

[Vo]:The WD Files on Rossi (1 of 4) - Introduction

2011-06-24 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
The Witch Doctor Files on Rossi (1 of 4) - Introduction This is an experiment, an experimental inquiry into the continuing adventures Andrea Rossi and his mysterious e-cats. I hope some here may find the contents of the following posts interesting. Hopefully it may even be educational, if not o

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: Nope. When you put 800 W into something like this, a large fraction of it >> radiates from the cell into the surroundings. >> > > The cell is insulated. > It is too hot to touch according to witnesses. The insulation means it takes longer to get hot on the outside; the differe

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Horace Heffner
On Jun 24, 2011, at 2:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: YOW -- WHAT YOU JUST SAID On 11-06-24 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: So the only way for Rossi to make it produce a little steam and a lot of hot water would be for him to adjust the anomalous heat output. It would be a miracle

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jouni Valkonen
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude : > First of all, the flow rate is not adjusted in any of the demos after the > experiment is started. The only thing that is necessary to account for a > flat temperature is, as you say, that the flow rate is high enough so that > the entire heating element remains wet. > To

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > YOW -- WHAT YOU JUST SAID > > > On 11-06-24 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> >> So the only way for Rossi to make it produce a little steam and a lot of >> hot water would be for him to adjust the anomalous heat output. It would

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote: > 2011/6/25 Joshua Cude : > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Jed Rothwell > wrote: > >> > >> If you have a high temperature thermometer, please try this at home: > >> Boil some water in a teapot so that steam emerges from the spout. Turn >

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
YOW -- WHAT YOU JUST SAID On 11-06-24 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: So the only way for Rossi to make it produce a little steam and a lot of hot water would be for him to adjust the anomalous heat output. It would be a miracle if Rossi has such good control over the anomalous heat that

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jouni Valkonen
2011/6/25 Joshua Cude : > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: >> >> If you have a high temperature thermometer, please try this at home: >> Boil some water in a teapot so that steam emerges from the spout. Turn the >> flame down, so that only a little emerges. Measure the temperat

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > ** > Joshua Cude wrote: > > There is no chance any of the water would vaporize with only ~800 W >> input. >> > You would not any steam at all. Even with this high input power, any >> steam at all is proof there is anomalous heat. >> > > W

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
This is going into an infinite loop. Trying to explain that with only 800 is just too hard for me. Thanks for trying.

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > While I am also a skeptical, even rough approximation gives a huge > output gain. Above 100 degrees means gas, A temperature reading within a degree or two of 100C is consistent with a mixture of gas and liquid. > and pumping a mixture wo

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: There is no chance any of the water would vaporize with only ~800 W input. You would not any steam at all. Even with this high input power, any steam at all is proof there is anomalous heat. What are you talking about. You just did the calculation yourself

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Rich Murray wrote: > Joshua Cude, > > Are you conceding that the Rossi device produces some anomalous excess > heat -- in a fully reproducible setup, capable of explosions, that > would imply important, accessible new physics... > > I make no definite claims. I am

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > If you have a high temperature thermometer, please try this at home: > > Boil some water in a teapot so that steam emerges from the spout. Turn the > flame down, so that only a little emerges. Measure the temperature of the > steam. You will

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
While I am also a skeptical, even rough approximation gives a huge output gain. Above 100 degrees means gas, and pumping a mixture would require either another pump, by means of ventilation. Ventilation is noisy and would require a large opening. Even 1% of liquid is a thick fog, which is not the c

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Rich Murray
Joshua Cude, Are you conceding that the Rossi device produces some anomalous excess heat -- in a fully reproducible setup, capable of explosions, that would imply important, accessible new physics...

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote: > 2011/6/24 Joshua Cude : > > > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Jouni Valkonen > > > wrote: > >> I do not know how many times you and abd have been told that the > >> measured boiling point of water is 99,7 °C. Therefore if there is mist >

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Harry Veeder
a mixture of ground coffee and water should do the trick. ;-)   Harry - Original Message - > From: Terry Blanton > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Cc: > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:10:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy > Catalyzer (June 14th)

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: It is not the temperature reading that convinces me it is at the boiling point, it is the fact that the temperature is so perfectly flat. If the steam were dry, its temperature would be free to increase, but it never does. If you have a high temperature thermometer, please

Re: [Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > ** > Joshua Cude wrote: > > You only get a stable water/steam mixture in a closed vessel (a teapot). >> >> > > Why? If it takes say 1 kW to raise the temperature of the flowing water > to 100C, and then you supply 1.5 kW (using only and el

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > What fluid would you suggest? Jones suggests therminol which is used in solar power applications; but, as Peter points out about glycol, there are also disadvantages. The system would have to be securely closed. T

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jouni Valkonen
2011/6/24 Joshua Cude : > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Jouni Valkonen > wrote: >> I do not know how many times you and abd have been told that the >> measured boiling point of water is 99,7 °C. Therefore if there is mist >> mixed into dry steam, it will reduce the steam temperature below >>

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Jouni Valkonen wrote: I do not know how many times you and abd have been told that the measured boiling point of water is 99,7 °C. Yup. It is ~99°C here in Atlanta, GA, elevation ~300 m. Of course this is thermometer reading is trivial to fake e.g. putting carefully calibrated and electronic

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > You have to trap most of the steam until all the heat gets > transfered. I don't know what that means. > And 1% by mass is a very think fog, it won't be dragged > out by the flow. > It's not given a choice. There is a pump forcing it ou

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:08 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote: > 2011/6/24 Joshua Cude : > > As soon as it starts boiling, things get very turbulent. Steam is 1700 > times > > the volume of water for the same mass, so it's gonna push things around. > > It's gonna push all the water ahead of it out, and co

[Vo]:Okay, suppose there is only 800 W input with no anomalous heat

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: You only get a stable water/steam mixture in a closed vessel (a teapot). Why? If it takes say 1 kW to raise the temperature of the flowing water to 100C, and then you supply 1.5 kW (using only and electric heater), then only part of the flowing water will get conve

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jouni Valkonen
2011/6/24 Joshua Cude : > As soon as it starts boiling, things get very turbulent. Steam is 1700 times > the volume of water for the same mass, so it's gonna push things around. > It's gonna push all the water ahead of it out, and convert the unboiled > water behind it to a fine mist. If 1% of the

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
Isn't there a small transparent hose besides the one that pumps water inside?

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
You have to trap most of the steam until all the heat gets transfered. And 1% by mass is a very think fog, it won't be dragged out by the flow.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
It won't change much. I used 1.5g/s which gives 3.300W, so, 1.8g/s fits the bill. So, it is just a slightly stronger blow.

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > If you don't want to hot bubbles outside he machine, you have to heat > almost all to steam. Using a teapot shaped boiler is a way to not let > that happen. Jed is right this time. > > Huh? You can't heat almost all to steam by will. There ha

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > > Why? If it takes say 1 kW to raise the temperature of the flowing water > to > > 100C, and then you supply 1.5 kW (using only and electric heater), then > only > > part of the flowing water will get converted to steam, and you will have > t

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
> Why? If it takes say 1 kW to raise the temperature of the flowing water to > 100C, and then you supply 1.5 kW (using only and electric heater), then only > part of the flowing water will get converted to steam, and you will have to > have a mixture of liquid and gas coming out. What other possibi

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > But 2KW does give a very feeble buff, unless it is ousted in a very > thin cavity and accelerated by propellers, like in a hand vaporizer. > > And in any case, Rossi is claiming 5 kW, not 2.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > But 2KW does give a very feeble buff, unless it is ousted in a very > thin cavity and accelerated by propellers, like in a hand vaporizer. > > I doubt is is accelerated by anything but its own pressure. And the rate of production is far highe

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Peter Gluck
The best heat transfer liquid is water, any organic heat transfer liquid (Defkalion speak about glycol but this has to be a glycol of higher moleculr weight) is dangerous- comustible toxic and is degrading and fouling the very hot surfaces as in this case.I have worked long years with Diphyl, not a

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > ** > Joshua Cude wrote: > > If it was overflowing that would be obvious from the temperature. >> > > How? If part of the water was converted to steam, then the water/steam > mixture would be at 100C. > > > With this flow configuration, in

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
What fluid would you suggest?

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Peter Daniel, I think the steadiness of the heat transfer is the only real problem and I suspect that the water pump is making it worse. A simple drain valve on the output of the e-cat using a high temperature transfer FLUID would make the rate of heat transfer much more stable

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
> > However, other people have published similar helium results in the > peer-reviewed literature. > > No quantitative correlations were published in peer-reviewed literature. > > Even advocates admit that Miles' results were preliminary and crude, and >> they were controversial, and challenged

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Harry Veeder
From: Joshua Cude >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 2:20:40 PM >Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea... >The vessel will boil away all of the water at these flow rates. > > > >To get water to boil, you only have to heat it to 100C. To convert it all to >st

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: If it was overflowing that would be obvious from the temperature. How? If part of the water was converted to steam, then the water/steam mixture would be at 100C. With this flow configuration, in my experience it would around ~95°C as soon as the feed water starts ov

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Horace Heffner
On Jun 24, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: The output temperature and flow output, even visually, are convincing. They are visually equivalent to putting off a candles by blowing them, that is 0.2W - 0.4W. But to make it only by

[Vo]:NASA Mission Suggests Sun and Planets Constructed Differently

2011-06-24 Thread Harry Veeder
  On possible explanation for the difference is that LENR processes are common. Harry     NASA Mission Suggests Sun and Planets Constructed Differently   http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA_Mission_Suggests_Sun_and_Planets_Constructed_Differently_999.html   "These findings show that all solar sy

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Peter Gluck
Excuse me I don't get exactly what you are saying.\ It seems there are 2 problems; a) we don't know exactly how the system has to be controlled to give maxim performance i.e. intensity and efficiency (output/input0; b) Rossi is not mastering perfectly the same parameters - he has made scale down (f

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Gluck wrote: THe ratio HAS to be made much higher. The story has started from 200:1 according to Focardi. The ratio has been made infinite in some cases. Rossi has run the cells with no power input. As I am sure you know he says this is dangerous. Assuming that is true, it still means

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
If you don't want to hot bubbles outside he machine, you have to heat almost all to steam. Using a teapot shaped boiler is a way to not let that happen. Jed is right this time.

Re: [Vo]:Hot Fusion Delays -- Livermore Laser

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
Heh, it would require a Q>1000/pellet for that to happen...

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
It is, but it is either explosive or the power is too slow, like with the experiments that you mention of Focardi.

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Joshua Cude wrote: > > It is not necessary to do any tests to know that with a given input flow >> rate of water at room temperature, if the output fluid is at 100C, the >> corresponding power for 99% liquid (by mass) is about 7 times lower

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Peter Gluck
THe ratio HAS to be made much higher. The story has started from 200:1 according to Focardi. Peter On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Peter Gluck wrote: > > For such a routine-routine calculation he supposedly made hundreds of...he >> seems a bit slow. Or too pedagogical? >>

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
My above answer was to Joshua Cude.

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
Yes, they were. And this is what makes a Krivit a skeptical of cold fusion. As I said somewhere else, he believes that what causes the heat is the transmutation of elements and not just fusion.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
But 2KW does give a very feeble buff, unless it is ousted in a very thin cavity and accelerated by propellers, like in a hand vaporizer.

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: Of course I knew that. We've been over this a dozen times. That's why I said *replication*. So it was not dishonest. Ah. So you did. I did not notice the word "replication." I apologize. However, other people have published similar helium results in the peer-reviewed liter

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > It was replicated several times. But never reliably or convergent, > that is, around 24MeV. The results always turned out values between 20 > and 80 MeV. > > and were published in conference proceedings or the like...

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > The output temperature and flow output, even visually, are convincing. > They are visually equivalent to putting off a candles by blowing them, > that is 0.2W - 0.4W. But to make it only by heating water and > vaporizing requires more than 2

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
It was replicated several times. But never reliably or convergent, that is, around 24MeV. The results always turned out values between 20 and 80 MeV.

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: It is not necessary to do any tests to know that with a given input flow rate of water at room temperature, if the output fluid is at 100C, the corresponding power for 99% liquid (by mass) is about 7 times lower than it is for 100% steam. This vessel is shaped like a teapo

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
He doesn't need to provide data for that. 1% of liquid mass would mean an intense bubbling foam outside the hose. Just for a comparison, a nebulizer with an output of 46L/min of oxygen takes several minutes to deplete a shallow reserver of a few grams of liquid, and the fog is very thick. http://w

Re: [Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > This comment is tangled in another long thread. I would like to repeat it, > to draw attention to it. > > Joshua Cude wrote: > > Until replication of Miles' heat/helium claims makes it past replication, >> there is nothing to critique. >> > >

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > The discussions here about how "wet steam" might produce a gigantic error > are nonsense. No one has demonstrated such an error with a system like this. > No one here has run a test demonstrating how to make steam with 6 times less > energy t

[Vo]:Hot Fusion Delays -- Livermore Laser

2011-06-24 Thread Alan J Fletcher
Fusion Experiment Faces New Hurdles http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/us/24bclivermore.html  (free registration may be required) [ Tritium filters getting clogged ] The tipping point for nuclear fusion is “ignition,” the moment when the lasers release the same amount of energy that is requi

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
My only complaint it is that Rossi needs glasses. He finds it difficult to read his own notes.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
The output temperature and flow output, even visually, are convincing. They are visually equivalent to putting off a candles by blowing them, that is 0.2W - 0.4W. But to make it only by heating water and vaporizing requires more than 2000KW. I don't think the con comes from that. If that was so e

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Gluck wrote: For such a routine-routine calculation he supposedly made hundreds of...he seems a bit slow. Or too pedagogical? I have done that calculation many times, but if I were doing it on a blackboard for a video audience in Japanese I doubt I would be as smooth as Rossi was. A

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: > Just to be sure of my position. I am completely convinced that the > data that has been provided is coherent with a power generation of > 2.5KW. But the presented data is also consistent with power equal to the input electrical power of 800

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
As for the Krivit's test, there is nearly no condensation inside the hose. That is visible in any of the video. The water output due vapor doesn't require a very fast flow, so it is certainly free, with no turbulence. The kinetic energy is just too small due vapor, 0.2W.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 6:09 AM, Horace Heffner wrote: > I wrote: "A couple meters of rubber hose can not radiate away 80% of 12 kW > of heat suggested to be produced in the original runs." > > To be more specific, it can be expected the heat flow through the rubber > tube walls is about 220 W pe

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > And the output/input ratio( 6.7) has to be divided with at least 3 if we > speak about the value of energy- 1kW electric = 3 kW thermal energy. Considering the temperature of only 100C of the ecat output, the value of the thermal energy i

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Horace Heffner
The appended response appears to be nonsensical. Perhaps it is due to a language barrier? The calculation provided appears to be meaningless. It appears to *assume* a priori a free flow of steam, i.e. no percolator effects, no pressure or flow variations. Also, it would be more professiona

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
Just to be sure of my position. I am completely convinced that the data that has been provided is coherent with a power generation of 2.5KW. My doubt is from where the power is drawn. Rossi does have control over the current, using his computer, so he can surely change the power while cheating on t

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Daniel Rocha
The pressure of the hose is too small, in another thread I wrote this : "Considering a stream of 10m/s, 1.5g/s out of the hose, with, 5cm2 of area, the pressure inside above 1atm the chamber is P=F/A=(1.5*10(-3)*10)/5*10(-4)=(1.5*10(-2)*10(4))/5=1.5*20=30N/m2 or and increase of 3*10(-4) atm." It

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Peter Gluck
For such a routine-routine calculation he supposedly made hundreds of...he seems a bit slow. Or too pedagogical? And the output/input ratio( 6.7) has to be divided with at least 3 if we speak about the value of energy- 1kW electric = 3 kW thermal energy. The Defkalion brochure speaks about output/

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Andrea Selva wrote: Nope. If you use fuzzy data as input and elastic math a power gain of 1 can easily rise to 6 or even more ... There is nothing fuzzy about the data. The method Rossi is using has been used successfully by physicists and engineers since the 1840s, millions of times. The dis

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Andrea Selva
Nope. If you use fuzzy data as input and elastic math a power gain of 1 can easily rise to 6 or even more ... 2011/6/24 Jed Rothwell > Andrea Selva wrote: > > Rossi could have shown the line voltage too in order to better support his >> claim of 750W. >> Very smart guy, isn't it ? >> > > You c

RE: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jones Beene
. right you are - MoB. > 230 Volt AC (single phase) is the average AC voltage and not the "peak". So 230 Volt AC means essentially 325 Volt AC peak. Kind regards, MoB

[Vo]:More evasions and dishonesty from Cude

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
This comment is tangled in another long thread. I would like to repeat it, to draw attention to it. Joshua Cude wrote: Until replication of Miles' heat/helium claims makes it past replication, > there is nothing to critique. > Miles' heat/helium claims were published in peer reviewed journals in

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Andrea Selva wrote: Rossi could have shown the line voltage too in order to better support his claim of 750W. Very smart guy, isn't it ? You can say the line voltage was 260 V. That would not affect the conclusion. This kind of nitpicking is a waste of time. Anyone can see that Rossi is m

Re: [Vo]:[Video] Andrea Rossi Crunches the Numbers for His Energy Catalyzer (June 14th)

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Akira Shirakawa wrote: Here's a video that will generate MUCH discussion, filmed by Steven Krivit during his visit in Bologna on June 14th: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrTz5Bq6dsA I do not see anything controversial about it. He almost forgot to multiply the mass of water times 7 kg, but

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude wrote: Until replication of Miles' heat/helium claims makes it past replication, there is nothing to critique. Miles' heat/helium claims were published in peer reviewed journals in 1993 and 1994. - Jed

[Vo]:UN-subscribe

2011-06-24 Thread azube1

RE: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Jones Beene
-Original Message- From: Horace Heffner Thanks for jumping back into the analysis, as tiresome as it has gotten to be (even for this particular audience). Almost everyone agrees that it would be very easy for Levi and his crew to rectify the wet/dry steam controversy - that his continui

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
On 11-06-23 11:23 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax mailto:a...@lomaxdesign.com>> wrote: It's flowing water, not a kettle. So the input power can only heat it so much. In the chart of temperature, a sudden change in rate of

Re: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Man on Bridges
Hi, On 24-6-2011 15:22, Jones Beene wrote: *From:*Andrea Selva wrote: Angela Kemmler wrote: The electrical input was 750W No, it was between 784 and 805 W (230x3.4 or 230x3.5). The tension is 230 V in Italy. This is called in Italy "eurotensione", google it. Sorry but this is still i

RE: [Vo]:E-Cat vs. Water Heater for coffee/tea...

2011-06-24 Thread Jones Beene
From: Andrea Selva wrote: Angela Kemmler wrote: The electrical input was 750W No, it was between 784 and 805 W (230x3.4 or 230x3.5). The tension is 230 V in Italy. This is called in Italy "eurotensione", google it. Sorry but this is still incorrect. You have not taken into accoun

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Horace Heffner
I wrote: "A couple meters of rubber hose can not radiate away 80% of 12 kW of heat suggested to be produced in the original runs." To be more specific, it can be expected the heat flow through the rubber tube walls is about 220 W per m of hose. Using the thermal conductivity for rubber at

Re: [Vo]:Rossi calorimetry, volume vs mass, etc.

2011-06-24 Thread Horace Heffner
On Jun 23, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: 2011/6/23 Horace Heffner : Liquid LiquidGas PortionPortion Portion by Volume by Mass by Mass - --- --- 0.000 0. 100.00 0.001 0.6252 0.3747 I will just concentrate in the second e

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