Is this credible to anyone? If so, why and how?
Rossi can't rely on anyone else at all to help make the wondrous
machines? If he's afraid of reverse engineering, he'd better not sell any
at all! How does he know what his customers will do with them? Or maybe
he's relying on that
In the older small (but allegedly powerful) E-cats, the main (largest and
probably most powerful) heater has always heated the cooling water! This
is evident because it's wrapped around the *exterior* of the E-cat. This
never made sense, by the way, unless the objective was to use electricity
Welcome to Vortex, MY!
Thank you.
Even if he's concerned about that, he could disassemble all the way to
the final core and stop there.
He did that, several times. Even with the big reactor people say they
could see the whole thing, under the cell. You can't see much in the
photos, but you can in person. It would be a
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/10/nasa-engineer-explains-why-rossi-demos-failed/
According to a slide presentation given by NASA engineer Michael A.
Nelson, which New Energy Times obtained under a FOIA request, “Energy
Catalyzer” inventor Andrea Rossi failed to conclusively show that his
And most of all, it seems to be a serious problem for Rossi to get an
E-cat to one of the two universities he promised them too. I wish Rossi's
butt were somehow a bit more resistant to pain.
He ran out of money and couldn't pay Bologna. If he really collected E2M he
should be able to pay
However calorimatric criticism is not relevant, because Rossi has
never forbid for observers to do accurate calorimetry and check all
the necessary calibrations with their own instruments. Therefore bad
calorimetry is not likely source for the cheat, because that cheat
would depend on
It is
irrational to demand 1,000 times more energy than chemistry can produce when
you have already seen 10 times more. The point is already proven.
I think many responsible and capable people don't believe that. The
only absolutely determinative test is an independent one that rules
out
I just wish Rossi would pay more attention to needs of customers and to
PR.
I just wish he'd get a single independent and credible test done. Never
mind the PR stuff. As for the needs of customers, how do we know he ever
had one or has one?
If he has teamed up with NI, that is exactly the
Even if Rossi were to run the thing for 40 hours or 40 days, I am certain
you would demand more. You would still be finding excuses not to believe it.
There may be other reasons not to believe in it but certainly a 40 hour run
is more persuasive than a 4 hour one, especially when there is no
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Alan J Fletcher wrote:
The entire empty volume of a shipping container? Since the energy
produced is N * the number of modules, the TIME should be the SAME as a
single eCat at the same power.
Well said.
Indeed
Might be their motivation is neither technical nor scientifical but
political?
A serious motivation could be to protect their own knowledge and research.
Are you talking about NASA? How would that work? What is it they are
protecting? How does what they say about Rossi protect anything? If
Col. (Ret.) Domenico Fioravanti
Thanks. I hope there is a tough journalist interview with him soon. I
doubt that there ever will be.
I wish Rossi would make a gift of one of his ECATs to Mary so that she
could perform all of the tests that she desires. I suspect that she would
complain that it did not look nice enough for her to dirty her hand upon
it. What is your agenda Mary?
Well, I do wish the devices didn't look
Does anyone seriously doubt that if Fioravanti is telling the truth, there
can be any doubt the 1 MW reactor is real? Are you seriously suggesting
that a measurement using standard industrial techniques, performed by an
expert, showing 66 kWh input and 2,635 kWh might be in error?!? You can't
I think you understood that is what I meant. Please do not be
argumentative. Please do not use straw man arguments.
I am confident there are no hidden wires or tubes going into the reactor.
If you are not confident of that, fair enough, but please do not bring up
that issue when we are
You go, Mare! (But careful, you're running close to your 40 post per
minute limit on Vortex ;-)
Thanks. I'm done. I actually have to work on something else for a living
some of the time.
Meanwhile, I notice that when NASA came up, the enthusiasts on
ecatnews.comstarted talking about
Any scam must obey the laws of physics.
Oh yes. But you don't necessarily know which laws are used to deceive you.
All propositions and assertions in a scientific debate must be subject to
testing and must be falsifiable, at least in principle. Asserting that
somewhere, someone might
Mary, you seem to love to find ways to scam scientific tests or do magic
tricks or whatever. Let me ask you a question. Can you name one
scientific experiment that is impossible to scam from the past? I tried
and can not come up with one, so give it a try. There are many ways to
suggest a
I think there is a consensus that Rossi was the control mechanism for his
earlier devices. If this is the situation, he will not be able to leave
for any extended length of time. The self sustaining mode, if that is what
they witnessed, will require careful control if operated for very long.
By the way, has anyone heard any peeps out of Mr. Parks lately? I bet he
and a lot of his cohorts are keeping a low profile. ;-)
Why would anyone keep a low profile because of Rossi?
Both Levi and Lewan were given a second-shot at testing.
Do you mean Levi was given a chance to repeat and record properly his long
high power experiment and refused? If so, WHY?!?!
| With the possible exception of the Oct 6 run, all of the investigators
(not Krivit -- that was a
OK Mary, you are correct in realizing that Rossi could be attempting a
fake. Many of his supporters have reviewed the sparse data supplied during
his demonstrations and have convinced ourselves that it is real. I am
confident that we are seeing a real LENR device.
I'm happy for you, David,
You can't have it both ways. Either the steam is dry (complete
vaporization), in which case the temperature and pressure of the effluent
are independent, or it's not. Your assertion that the output temperature
depends directly on the pressure is a tacit statement that it's not
producing dry
Well, if I had been so confident that cold fusion or LENR or what ever you
want to call it is impossible, I would feel quite foolish at the moment.
He spent many years of his career making fun of the serious researchers
operating within the field.
I'm not sure who will end up looking foolish
This is a completely different subject. Please do not mix up unrelated
topics. I asked how a person can test or falsify *your* assertion about
stage magic. I did not ask how Rossi can falsify his claims.
If you will not cite a specific stage magic technique, there is no way
anyone can
Faking experiments is beginning to become boring so let's call it a day.
That is the game I made reference to.
Sorry if it bores you. The possibility that everything Rossi has shown is
fake and that all the people who have endorsed it are being flummoxed is
fascinating to me. So much of life,
The deal with Rossi sounds much more like an OEM contract, and they are
very
likely to have done some diligence on it. Just the risk of adverse PR
(which they are already experiencing,
I suspect) would require a reasonable return on the cost of the perceived
risk.
What due diligence do you
The total heat contained within the mixture of water and vapor entered the
heat exchanger. The output of the exchanger was plain old fashioned cool
water. The heat was extracted to the cooling water flow.
The issue of vapor versus liquid did not remain.
Yup-- that was true October 6 but on
To prevent federal funds from being spent on research is going to
slow down the research. Do you not agree?
Yes. That's a pity. But it's sort of circular. If the evidence was
convincing, the funds would be there. You have to start somewhere. And
before we start on it, I don't know
Here is my point. if you do not know how he might be cheating, then it
is not logical for you to propose this as a hypothesis to be debated here.
You can say it is your gut feeling he is cheating. That's fine. That's an
informal judgment. We welcome that here. But let us not confuse a gut
I doubt that. In my experience, large corporations do not authorize press
releases without checking things out carefully. Anyone can do a Google
search and find out in a few seconds that Rossi is very controversial. I do
not think it is likely that the public relations department at National
I like that expression jumping the shark. Does it mean the same as
screwing the pooch?
It means the voice entry system has added its own improvement to the
original statement.
An obvious guess is that the shark was supposed to be something a train
rides on.
Too bad. It was fun the
When you apply for any cold fusion related patent, they automatically
reject it with a form letter. . . .
Let me upload a copy:
http://lenr-canr.org/Collections/PatentOfficeMemo.jpg
That is a copy of their policy, not the form letter. Sorry for the
confusion.
I tossed out my copy
Mary, your requirement for blank test run is unreasonable, but you are
misunderstanding the reason why blank tests are used in science. Blank runs
are used when we are measuring effects that may consist on multiple unknown
variables and with controls we try to eliminate those variables that we
Thank you Sterling for allowing us to review. We approve the
text, especially the National Instruments portion of the story that
includes Stefano’s quote and information.
Oops. I see that memo is written to Allan. I guess he circulated it. I
though it was to David Ledin. If it is forged,
-FP, 1989. Nothing was done about about any of the rejections. What
could be done?
I don't know. I do suspect that you can sue if a worthy patent is
denied. Maybe someone who is a patent attorney can comment? That's out of
my area and I don't want to discuss it as I already said.
My
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Mary Yugo wrote:
And it (emphatically) does NOT follow that if FP are right, Rossi is
right, as some people have irresponsibly and foolishly claimed in several
forums.
Fleischmann and I think it does follow. So do
Data: 05 novembre 2011 10.01.45 GMT+01.00
A: Ufficio Stampa Alma Mater ufficiosta...@unibo.it
mailto:ufficiosta...@unibo.ithttp://us.mc381.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ufficiosta...@unibo.it
Oggetto: PRESS RELEASE - E-CAT: UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA IS NOT INVOLVED
E-CAT: UNIVERSITY OF BOLOGNA IS NOT
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
http://www.leonardo-ecat.com
Gee. I looked all over for an order form, a price list and a PayPal Logo
and darn... no luck. Oh and:
Page posted by Sterling Allan http://sterlingdallan.com/, PES Network,
Inc.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:
For me this looks like a bad joke. It is not nice to do a fan page
that superficially looks like authentic page.
It does look like a bad joke but look at this from there:
Welcome to the homepage of Andrea Rossi,
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Major kewl!
Yah. Looks like a camp stove.
Uhho... this is going to cause a lot of trouble for sure. Wait until the
universities hear about it!
Now I really do wonder if Rossi ever saw it before it went live. Ah
well... we'll know soon.
Leonardo Corp Personnel
Ing. Andrea A.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
I find this very interesting. Where is there a scam here?
Oh ok. Let's order one. How do I do that exactly? (medium to small
please, one each)
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Site says 100 kw min.
Rossi gets nothing until the unit meets specifications.
Right. Steorn said something like that too. They never delivered and they
have kept and spent €20 million of investor money along
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
An addition to the Forbes article, QUOTE:
Update #2: A followup statement from National Instruments’ John
Pasquarette, Vice President of Corporate Marketing and eBusiness:
We did not buy a 1 MW cold fusion plant.
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the
validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create
the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is
Spin this any way you try but your time here claiming scam / fraud is over.
Sure. When you can name one customer with some reputation for credibility
and they prove they've done a proper test -- but not before, OK?
Someone at Ecatnews.com pointed out that the web site is so bad that
someone
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
If Steorn was operating a scam, why have they not been charged?
I don't know. If you look at their history, it's clearly a scam. They
also have contempt for their marks because they joke about them tacitly.
Perhaps
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Please tell me how Rossi can scam a engineering firm
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I suggested he may have scammed investors, not an
engineering firm. Was some part of that in need of further elaboration?
You have suggested Rossi may have scammed investors? Bold statement there
Mary. Care to disclose your proof as otherwise you may have just committed
Defamation and I'm sure the Vortex administrators will not wish to be
involved in hosting defamatory comments.
A bit of advise Mary, if I may,
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
You claimed Rossi may have scammed investors. Prove it or stop making up
statement that you may wish to be real.
You're making stuff up. I already said I wish Rossi would be real. And
yes, he may have scammed
Yikes!
Defamation would be: Rossi is a scammer
A personal opinion and perfectly legal: Rossi may be a scammer (also he
may not be one). Freedom of speech on that one, I think.
Really -- I had this issue come up before and I checked with an attorney
who specializes in it. There's no
Next Few Months
* New customers of the one megawatt E-Cat plant reveal their identity
publicly.
* Location of first E-Cat factory in the United States revealed.
And why do you believe that will happen? Because Sterling Allan wrote it?
He's the same guy who had Obama in Mars for
Latest Rossi-ism:
- Andrea Rossi
November 12th, 2011 at 8:57
AMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=32#comment-117146
WARNING: THE WEBSITE
http://WWW.LEONARDO-ECAT.COMhttp://www.leonardo-ecat.com/IS NOT OUR
WEBSITE. IT HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED, IT IS A DRAFT OF A
You seem to be suggesting that there is something fundamentally different
about Rossi's Ni nanopowder compared to the nanopowder cells of Arata and
Miles, or the Ni cells of Patterson or Piantelli. I do not see any gigantic
differences. The claims seem mutually supportive to me, and to
In Allan's case he performed no crime other than simply reporting on the
alleged Obama event. IMHO, Allan showed professionalism by NOT adding his
own personal thoughts and personal beliefs on the matter.
So let's see. If I send a report to Allan about my pink, invisible, flying
unicorns that
fusion
I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever *you* say,
or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his
business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be
bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
The upper pipe was not measured and had no (visible) control mechanism.
If the final customer was not aware about this possibility, he could have
been fooled.
How long would the customer be fooled? No corporation would give Rossi $2
million
Whoopee. I have to rush to put up an order form for my pink, invisible
flying unicorns that make free energy. When you can name and preferably
interview a customer, that sort of news will become interesting.
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Michele Comitini
michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote:
Of course Mr Rossi won't let anyone look inside the eCat : until he has
world-wide patents he must protect it as a trade secret. But he has invited
several teams of scientists to conduct calorimetric tests to measure the
excess energy, using their own instruments. In particular, Lewan brought
That's unconscionable. I can give examples if you like but I'd rather
not waste more space. . . .
Please do. That would not be a waste of space. You tend to make blanket
accusations without specifics. Let's hear some specifics. It may be that
what you consider unethical, others consider
Krivit seems to have good contacts who are willing to talk to him,
including some at the U of Bologna and U of Uppsala and many scientists who
work in cold fusion and LENR.
So do I. As far as I know, the people in Bologna and Uppsala have been
telling Krivit just the opposite of what he
to note that.
Where are the moderators of this forum?
2011/11/12 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com
Whoopee. I have to rush to put up an order form for my pink, invisible
flying unicorns that make free energy. When you can name and preferably
interview a customer, that sort of news will become
That seems unlikely to work. I may have missed it (it's not my field)
but I don't know of any proven and properly tested and documented catalysts
that facilitate fusion or any other nuclear reaction.Do the other
claims involve catalysts?
Yes, I think most experts would say they
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote:
Of course nothing. But there is a lot wrong with misleading and
deceptive advertising.
Rossi has not done any advertising as far as I know. Perhaps you are
talking about
You seem to have some difficulty with logic.
No. It seems that you are disregarding the original intent of the link to
the order form. It was to suggest that Rossi is legitimate and his device
is real because such a form is available. It was implied that now, for
sure, properly qualified
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Not everything there is a scam. At least one is not, which is plasma
focus, which they frequently feature among the top 5 and is based in an old
technology. But they never claimed overunity, just 1/10 of the input
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
I'm beginning to see why you've been banned from so many forums.
Sorry, I don't keep track. How many was that and which ones if you know?
And were they all run by fervent believers in Rossi?
If you don't know which ones and
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I think most experts would say they do.
That I would like to know more about. It should be easy to show -- add
the catalyst and get
As far as I know, Stanley Meyer sincerely believed that his devices could
make energy from plain water.
How the heck does one flummox oneself into that conclusion? How long would
it take to test conclusively a purported device said to do that? A
minute? Less -- it would never be able to
It's pretty easy to scam a customer if you only sell one item and flee, if
you sell items so
cheaply that the duped find the cost of recovery higher than the value
recovered, or if the item sold is actually illegal. But selling large
industrial equipment to a
knowledgeable customer with a
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 9:54 AM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote:
mary yugo appeared on the Steorn forums and has never been supportive of
any exotic energy technology developer, company or anything.
this pseudonym is just a hater.
Most people now believe that Steorn was a scam. Are you
This test will not work. Cold fusion does not produce neutrons and it
seldom produces radiation. I have told you that before. If you do not
believe me, please review the literature on your own.
Well that's inconvenient, isn't it? So we just look for anomalous heat
and nothing else?
No,
Did I get the wrong guy? Who measured the dryness of steam with a Testo
HVAC meter? Thanks for any correction.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Michele Comitini
michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/11/13 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com:
The issue isn't only or even mainly the instruments
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote:
No time to study the literature but time to nagger and flood forums all
day with messages.
I have time to study about Rossi and directly related writings. I don't
have time to read the thousands of seemingly
If you don't read the literature, you won't be able to tell apart what is
logical to what is illogical.
I disagree. Rossi's claim is different from most of the others in cold
fusion because it is so extravagant -- I mean come on! A megawatt for six
months on a handful of inexpensive fuel?
It's also possible that cold fusion occurs in nature, and through the
eons, the copper we see around us is the product of the same reaction.
What reaction is that?
Wooops. Even Rossi can't stand those guys any more, LOL.
From: “Andrea Rossi – Leonardo Corp.” info@…
To: “Sterling Allan” sterlingda@…
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: temporary notice posted
Sterling, please: all the website is not approved, please take out
from the net
What is this drivel?
An attempt at humor. Sorry it didn't rattle your funny bone!
So let’s show a little more appreciation and compassion toward the guy
that got the ball rolling. His business plans might cause him to be
eclipsed by a more professional organization now that the door has been
cracked open but I will always remember what Mr. Rossi has accomplished no
Well, considering Defkalion claimed to be setting up for making hundreds of
Hyperions per year in the first quarter of next year, and claimed without
evidence that they had submitted applications to the Greek authorities for
permits to test and sell the devices, this is pretty disappointing.
My
All of the doubts are from the peanut gallery on the Internet, especially
people such as Mary Yugo. She says she knows nothing about cold fusion, so
obviously she cannot judge. Asking her to evaluate this would be like
asking me to review a performance of the Metropolitan Opera. I do not know
Re Mary Yugo, I am reading only what she tells about Rossi and the E-cat,
not LENR or CF.
Simple and completely correct. Proof of Rossi has nothing to do with LENR
or CF. Thanks, Peter
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I have followed your suggestions for several months now. You have made
the point that Defkalion should show you anything at all. Why do you now
argue about them fulfilling your request? You should be satisfied.
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
You seem to believe that Rossi owes you an explanation. He dislikes you
intenslyas a member of the chattering class and will not be affected by
your demands for proof.
Rossi will cooperate with his cu stomers up to a
Whatever they do, you will demand more, and more, and more. You will move
the goalposts down the field, out of the stadium, out of the parking lot .
. .
I am asking the same I always asked. They provided one tiny part of it.
And a very weak one.
They announced they will soon provide more
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 12:25 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I refer to your posts on the Defkalion site. You repeated a million times
(maybe a few less) that they should show you anything at all. That was
your desire for many posts and now they have done what you requested.
Both Rossi and Defkalion are doing their best to keep all the decision
making in their own hands and out of the hands of their propagandist
detractors.
Could you be kind enough to define propagandist detractors and how it
applies to the discussion of scientific claims? I can sort of guess
.
Oh, come now. The second photo, labeled Hyperion in assembly, is
actually quite sharp
It's low resolution, nothing's labeled, nothing's explained, and, if the
thing really is in assembly, then the reason it's already hooked up to a
big blue gas-tank-looking thing is not entirely clear,
I suspect he practices misdirection ...
We agree. I think his entire performance at the demos consists mostly of
misdirection.
Many companies do have factories, so this claim is not extravagant. It is
quite the normal thing for an industrial company to have a factory.
Yes it is but most factories have addresses you can check and visit. And
very few, last I looked, make NUCLEAR FUSION REACTORS. And even fewer of
My apologies : I was confusing you with Stella_Nokia (eg on Defkalion).
No worries.
For what it's worth, I can assure you I am not she. Stella_Nokia is
another pseudonym for the person who writes more often as Alsetalokin and
Tinsel Koala. He's someone who's worked in physics and
You're the only one. who enjoys your sarcastic put-down-type humor.
You even call it humor.
I think you're such a staunch believer that your feelings get hurt when
anyone suggests Rossi may be scamming and makes fun of him. Others have
written me privately to approve of the humor and have
Granted that Rossi is producing anomalous heat, nevertheless absolutely
everything else about this story stinks to high heaven. The conundrum which
nobody can decipher is why someone with a real effect, or a scammer, would
operate in such a bizarre manner. The only conclusion left is that the
Except the fundamental physics, and the fact that a 30 L poorly insulated
vessel of water cannot stay at boiling temperature for 4 hours.
I disagree that the large E-cat module was ever properly inspected. For
sure, nobody saw what was inside the finned rectangular portion in the
interior.
I'd be interested in running a gig PA with that smaller generator of his.
Then I'd know it's all useful. I still can't believe that none of these
people ever organize a plug your phone in here to charge it type
demonstrations. It's always good to have them do something understandable,
some
You have the attitude of a hostile witness.
My unicorns make me testy. They're invisible and keep playing mean tricks
on me.
The news release promises a full outline of our development within 2
weeks. That may be interesting, especially the third party testing.
To prove the concept I think you do not have to give money you can
privately show interest in giving money to support Rossi's endeavors.
I think it would be difficult -- Rossi will be suspicious if he doesn't
know you or has not heard of you. Jed noted that several scheduled demos
including
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