Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

My apologies for the error, the "Governance Wiki" URL is: foundation.wikimedia.org On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:15 AM Pete Forsyth wrote: > As a former, active admin on Meta (but not a current one), I'd like to > make a few points. I have also not been heavily involved in this rebranding >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

As a former, active admin on Meta (but not a current one), I'd like to make a few points. I have also not been heavily involved in this rebranding project, though I should disclose that I've taken a position against it. 1. A page such as this one can play one or both of two roles: (a) a FAQ about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hi Tito, On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:01 PM Tito Dutta wrote: > Greetings, > There was a continuous practice of citing/overciting the FAQ page, > sometimes without answering the questions directly. This happened more on > the other mailing lists (For example: > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

; > > >>> > > [2] >>> > > >>> > > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team >>> > > >>> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

imedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ >> > > >> > > [5] >> > > >> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project >> > > >> > > >> > > >> &g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hoi, What you prove is that we maintain a static artifact that does improve with time. What you prove with your reply is that you do not care for the mission, for the quality of Wikipedia but only care to maintain a status quo that is no longer good enough. Thanks, GerardM On Wed, 15 Apr

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

There certainly is a lot to reflect on, isn't there? Maybe you can do some reflecting on the fact that those "long-time contributors" were, in many cases, working on Wikipedia before most people had ever even heard of it (when I first started working on it, "What's Wikipedia?" would be a question

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hoi, When I read something like this, it takes me aback. Yes, people may have an opinion, they may even express it and they even may be wrong. Who cares really. There is enough to dislike in branding, we are not cattle. From a marketing perspective there may be a point. The point would be to bring

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

I think it’s important to realise that there *is* a big issue here. How we want to be perceived and how we are actually perceived are *not* the same. We can argue about WMF vs. community as much as we want, but that won’t change reality. Please can we focus on how we solve the problem instead

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hmm. As Deskana has pointed out in the past, painting everyone at WMF with the same brush is problematic. It can demoralize people who do good work. At the same time, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that the same problems occur at WMF year after year. As the saying goes, "The more things

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

David Gerard wrote: >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding > >So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is >window dressing for a decision that's long been made. > >Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling >the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

A LOT of people worldwide are dying and have died today, some are people we know or love, and this is the important and urgent "community branding" project that WMF management wants to spend their employee time and goodwill free volunteer effort on. Really? It seems fair to repost my statement

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

ons/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project > > > > > > > > [4] > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ > > > > > > > > [5] > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

gt; > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an > > > occupational hazard that you will be shouted a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just > > part of the heat in the kitchen. > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

More complicated. The process has been managed as a "pure" marketing and communication process while it concerns more community management. I don't see here (honestly) any community management. Knd regards On 11/04/2020 12:27, Gnangarra wrote: Since the process has decided its not hearing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an > > > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those > > whose > > > voices

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

shouted at occasionally by those > whose > > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just > > part of the heat in the kitchen. > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:49, Samir Elsharbaty wrote: > While having Wikipedia as a central concept > is a project requirement, ... and here we have the source of all the problems here: the answer has been predetermined. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

anything personal, just >> part of the heat in the kitchen. >> > Cheers, >> > Peter >> > >> > -Original Message- >> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On >> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter >> > Sent

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

kitchen. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: R

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf > Of Yaroslav Blanter > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an > > > unwillingness > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so > > far, it >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

t; operate, > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to > spin > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of > buzz, > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

lots of buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

mirrors, flashy pages with lots of > buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

ors, flashy pages with lots of > buzz, > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong, > > and > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block > > > evasion does not bode well for their understand

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

ir understanding of the community. > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

? Block > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Pine W > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

nal Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf > Of Pine W > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > Hello, > > First, a dis

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hello, The pause we announced was to the community activity on the movement brand project.[1] With the global pandemic, we thought that it should be everyone’s priority to take care of themselves and their families right now. In the meantime, our project team will be working with Snohetta to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hello, I heard indirectly that the rebranding work is being paused due to the issues with COVID-19. Is anyone able to confirm this? I would be relieved if WMF is pausing and will reconsider what it's doing with regards to rebranding. To reiterate a comment that I made previously, I am OK in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

[mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 15 March 2020 12:47 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? Hoi, Back your pardon. I do not blame the English Wikipedia for the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. It does

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

> Behalf Of Aron Demian > Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of > the movement is very realistic in many kinds o

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

a black hole? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Aron Demian Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? My 2 cents: Imho the pressure

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hello Essie, Given all of the feedback so far, it seems we need a strong brand *network*, more than a struggle over a single brand; and strong shared identity *within* the communities and their contributors. I am glad that recent discussions seem to be grounded in identity and clarity. If we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

---Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > Hoi, > By making the p

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

ur when you are > sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 > To: Wikimedia Mailing L

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? Hoi, By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address English Wikipedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

age- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > Hoi, > Essie, the w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

lto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Essie Zar Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 12:48 AM To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? Hello Everyone, There are some new updates and opportunities

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

The movement has events a couple of magnitudes more important and urgent to spend time on. As for being invited to take part in a "brand network" discussion, of all places on *Facebook*, this is so fundamentally wrong, I would think it was a joke. WMF management, stop flushing away the donor's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? I, for one, welcome Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Source, Wikipedia Species, Wikipedia Commons. Why is it, though, that others go the other way? like American Airlines subordinating to AMR, Google to Alphabet. Citibank went

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Essie, The answer to that proposal was a clear, unambiguous "no". Not "keep asking". Immediately stop this process. And don't use an agency blocked for spamming our projects. Todd On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 11:33 AM Essie Zar wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > There are some new updates and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia. When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? Hello, First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie. Even if money was unlimited

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

I, for one, welcome Wikipedia Dictionary, Wikipedia Source, Wikipedia Species, Wikipedia Commons. Why is it, though, that others go the other way? like American Airlines subordinating to AMR, Google to Alphabet. Citibank went in a direction the opposite of the way that WMF is going, with Citi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

We just had an RfC on Meta which gave 90% opposes. I do not see how any serious rebranding discussions could still be happening after this result has become apparent. For me personally, the question is closed at least for several years. Best Yaroslav On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 8:48 PM Pine W

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Although Mike and I have differences of opinion about centralizing on the "Wikipedia" brand, one way in which I agree with Mike is that there are ways to have branding discussions that are not themselves controversial. Even if consensus was not reached, I for one would be more accepting of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hi all, I’m on the other side of things - I think it would be good to simplify our branding, and ‘Wikipedia’ is the obvious brand to go with. I’d love to see us talking about ‘Wikipedia Data’, and ‘Wikipedia Media, etc. (maybe with obvious cross-wiki tabs at the top of the projects!), without

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hello, First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at you, Essie. Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a

[Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hello Everyone, There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group when your email went out. As Zack indicated in September,[1] we