Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Trango does not have a CPE that will work with my 802.11b system.  5ghz 
around here only gets me a tenth of a mile or so.  Michigan is beautiful 
if trees is what you like.  5ghz only works sometimes on my backhauls if 
I can get up over 100ft.


If they did that with 900, that would be news.  A product someone could 
actually use.


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have 
bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get 
to $100 (without antenna, BTW).


Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it 
has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 
more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972



What does everyone think?




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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

You may want to read the website again (as well as the DSLreports 
article where one of the owners makes several posts).


The unit says "12db integrated antenna available". The $92 price does 
NOT include an antenna.


Travis
Microserv

fred wrote:


for the trango stuff in 100qty the dishes are $36. and for what it's
worth we plan on trying out the atlas fox gear immediately as it looks
to have a good place in our network. non-proprietary gear likely will
always have a place too.

but that's beside the point. What highgainantennas is putting out has
a version that includes a 12db antenna still under $100. Yes it is a
802.11b/g unit but there are many hookups every day using a CB3 or
equiv.

http://www.highgainantennas.com/category_s/87.htm

Price with a 12db panel is $92 and has a 400mw radio in it. I sure
think plenty of Wisps will at the very least try this thing out.
Different tools for different problems...

It sounds like they are shipping these very soon too.

On 6/27/06, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it
has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30
more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
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[WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all?

[Rick Smith]

 
Anyone seen FON 
?   This is insane.
 
Anyone test one yet 
?   I want to know what network their hotspot runs back to, so I can 
block it
 
Can someone that 
might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
 
 
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[WISPA] MikroTik RouterOS and DHCP

[Jory Privett]

I currently use the ISC DHCP server but want to switch to RouterOS. I use 
the dhcpd.conf file to specify host names and DNS registration for clients. 
Is there a way to access this file in the RouterOS system? Does RouterOS use 
a similar file for DHCP and if so can I access it? Can I setup a script that 
imports it from another server? The IP address assignment is dynamic, I just 
want to use this config to map DNS names.

Jory Privett
WCCS


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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Charles Wu]

Title: Message



out of 
curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral people) -- would blocking 
something like FON constitute a violation of net neutrality?
 
-Charles
 
 
---CWLabTechnology 
Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Rick SmithSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] www.fon.com - 
  a threat to us all?
   
  Anyone seen FON 
  ?   This is insane.
   
  Anyone test one 
  yet ?   I want to know what network their hotspot runs back to, so I 
  can block it
   
  Can someone that 
  might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
   
   
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Charles Wu]

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, 
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it 
has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 
more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Rick Smith]

Title: Message



I still don't see why anyone should be able to use my 
network without paying me for the right to do so.  
PERIOD.
 
I don't run a network for the benefit of the free world, I 
run it for the benefit of my checkbook.  Which needs SERIOUS help.  
:)
 
OK, and while we're at it, why is "net neutral" good 
?   I admit I've ignored most of the discussions on it due to the fact 
that I'm NOT a supporter.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles 
WuSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AMTo: 'WISPA 
General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - 
back to net neutrality

out of 
curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral people) -- would blocking 
something like FON constitute a violation of net neutrality?
 
-Charles
 
 
---CWLabTechnology 
Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  Rick SmithSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] www.fon.com - 
  a threat to us all?
   
  Anyone seen FON 
  ?   This is insane.
   
  Anyone test one 
  yet ?   I want to know what network their hotspot runs back to, so I 
  can block it
   
  Can someone that 
  might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
   
   
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Re: [WISPA] Spectrum Analyzer

[pswired]

The order has already been placed for these units and they should be
arriving in the states shortly.  I believe John ordered a few extras so if
anyone wanted to get one who missed out on the GP they still can.  I think
he ordered 6080s with the memory expansion.  I'm looking forward to trying
mine out.

Patrick




> Here is the prices he sent me.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> rabbtux rabbtux wrote: please forward a price list :-)
>
> On 6/20/06, Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> He gave me the final prices for these, so if anyone was interested, I
>> can forward it to you.
>> OFFLIST
>> Brian
>>
>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > David Sovereen wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm interested in a unit, but haven't got a response.  Is
>> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  the right address?
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> 989-837-3790 x 151
>> >> 989-837-3780 fax
>> >>
>> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> >> www.mercury.net 
>> >>
>> >> 129 Ashman St, Midland, MI  48640
>
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>
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>


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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Charles Wu wrote:

out of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral people) 
-- would blocking something like FON constitute a violation of net 
neutrality?


I don't think you'll find many "pro net neutral people" on this 
list.  I would have to say that most of this group would say that 
blocking the FON network WOULD be a violation.  I seem to recall an 
effort to do something similar to this by some California group a 
while back.  I may be remembering wrong, but it sounds familiar. 
Either way, I bring them up, because I am remembering some 
discussions surrounding them and net neutrality.


FWIW, I think most ISPs would view something like FON as a misuse of 
their service.  There are many ISPs that may not have a written TOS 
(or don't have their customers sign a copy of their TOS).  I don't 
want to get into the legality of what FON is attempting to do, as 
that will take the discussion outside the area of expertise of most 
on this list.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Jonathan Schmidt]

Title: Message








It is pretty much precluded by Roadrunner’s
typical “Terms of Service” in their contract:

“(b) Subscriber will not resell the Service, or any portion
thereof, or otherwise charge others to use the Service, or any portion thereof.
The Service is for personal use only, and Subscriber agrees not to use the
Service for operation as an Internet Service Provider, to host web sites for
other parties or for any other business enterprise or to connect the Cable
modem to any server or to any computer
outside of the Subscriber's premises.”

 

Much more of the contract is available at: http://www.twcnc.com/road_runner/info/terms.cfm

 

. . . j o n a t h a n

 

 

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006
9:42 AM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com -
a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality



 

I still don't see why anyone should
be able to use my network without paying me for the right to do so. 
PERIOD.

 

I don't run a network for the benefit of
the free world, I run it for the benefit of my checkbook.  Which needs
SERIOUS help.  :)

 

OK, and while we're at it, why is
"net neutral" good ?   I admit I've ignored most of the
discussions on it due to the fact that I'm NOT a supporter.

 







From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006
10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA
 General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com -
a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality



out of curiosity (would like input from
the pro net neutral people) -- would blocking something like FON constitute a violation
of net neutrality?





 





-Charles





 





 



---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rick Smith
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006
8:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a
threat to us all?



 





Anyone seen FON ?   This is insane.





 





Anyone test one yet ?   I want to know what network
their hotspot runs back to, so I can block it





 





Can someone that might have one throw a sniffer against it ?





 





 










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RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Rick Smith wrote:


OK, and while we're at it, why is "net neutral" good ?  I admit


The terminology here is somewhat confusing.  The term "net neutral" 
seems to be used to describe two unrelated ideologies (both of which 
are "bad", IMNSHO).  One is the opposite view to what AT&T (and 
others) are trying to push through Congress to allow them to charge 
certain content providers for premium access to their (AT&T's) 
customers.  The other is a "movement" by some to make it "bad" to do 
any shaping of any type of your network traffic.  Both are "whacko" 
ideas, IMO.


I've ignored most of the discussions on it due to the fact that I'm 
NOT a supporter.


I've not followed the discussions here very much, but I would agree 
with your assessment of the situation.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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Re: [WISPA] Spectrum Analyzer

[Brian Rohrbacher]

He said he had one extra and 3-4 people what might still want one.  I am 
going to wait for the feedback from those who ordered this time and if 
all goes well I might get in on the next order.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The order has already been placed for these units and they should be
arriving in the states shortly.  I believe John ordered a few extras so if
anyone wanted to get one who missed out on the GP they still can.  I think
he ordered 6080s with the memory expansion.  I'm looking forward to trying
mine out.

Patrick




 


Here is the prices he sent me.

Brian






rabbtux rabbtux wrote: please forward a price list :-)

On 6/20/06, Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   


He gave me the final prices for these, so if anyone was interested, I
can forward it to you.
OFFLIST
Brian

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


[EMAIL PROTECTED]

David Sovereen wrote:

   


I'm interested in a unit, but haven't got a response.  Is
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  the right address?

Dave

989-837-3790 x 151
989-837-3780 fax

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
www.mercury.net 

129 Ashman St, Midland, MI  48640
 


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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[Tom DeReggi]

I'd also argue that the $50 one time cost of a router is not nearly enough 
compenasation for a home user to risk their connection security and 
performance, or what ever other features are getting forced on them by 
accepting the $5 router.  Consdiering they are likely paying $50 PER MONTH 
for their broadband connection.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "John J. Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington


This should be reason enough for a close look at TOS and pricing mechanisms. 
If your clients have to pay more for usage, then they will think twice 
before buying into this.


Fry's Electronics usually has a $20 wireless router on sale so this is not 
the only possible threat. The $20 wireless router they sell usually freezes 
after a couple of hours of heavy usage though...


John



-Original Message-
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 08:08 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

For those that still think the all you can eat option is a good one :-)

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 

This guy needs to get a job from FON. 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200989,00.html




 Wi-Fi Company to Sell Routers for Five Dollars

 Monday, June 26, 2006




  STORIES

   .

   Reports of Death of Dial-Up Internet Greatly Exaggerated



 LONDON  - FON, a Spanish start-up on an ambitious crusade to turn 
home Wi-Fi connections into wireless "hotspots" for nearby users, is set 
to unveil on Monday a plan to hand out 1 million wireless routers for just 
$5 apiece.


 FON, which aims to create a network of home users and small 
businesses to resell wireless access to passersby, said on Sunday it will 
subsidize $60 Cisco (CSCO) Linksys or Buffalo routers for $5 in the United 
States or 5 euros in Europe.


 Routers are small boxes users connect to cable or telephone Internet 
connections to broadcast wireless signals to nearby devices, inside a 
home, business or surrounding neighborhood.


 Juergen Urbanski, North American general manager, said FON, which in 
February raised $21.7 million from backers, including the founders of 
Google (GOOG) and Skype, is looking to turn the brand-name equipment into 
what it calls "social routers."


 The goal of the Madrid-based company is to build block-by-block 
networks of shared wireless connections around the globe, turning local 
Wi-Fi users into an army of "foneros" - its term for people who share 
wireless access.


 As the company's name implies, FON aims to provide wireless Internet 
access not just to computer users but also for mobile phones and the 
latest portable gaming devices as they roam.


 (Story continues below)







From: Kevin Owen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 11:05 AM
To: 'Mike Hall'
Subject: FW: Wireless In Washington










From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:53 AM
To: webmaster; omimo
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Wireless In Washington



Hiya,

Comments below.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: webmaster

To: omimo
Cc: Marlon Schafer
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Wireless In Washington


I have forwarded your inquiry for reply.

Mary
- Original Message - 
From: omimo

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Wireless In Washington


Hi,

I was really encouraged by your experiences starting up a wireless network 
service.




mks:  Thanks!



I'm about to move to a house near Uniontown WA.



mks:  Cool.  You'll like it there.

I am sad because I have to give up my connection that I 'borrow' from my 
landlord thanks to a small repeater sitting on his kitchen windowsill and a 
converted steel salad bowl with my D-Link USB unit attached. Range: 150 
yards with 56Mbps to his home network.




mks:  Grin

I was so proud of that hack.



mks:  Big grin!

My new place is about 8km from one of the local provi

Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[Tom DeReggi]

People just want it to work.  Internet Access 
without support is a doomed model before the start, and will never be a win 
for anyone.  As far as ISP's Internet bandwidth being 
stolen
 
Thats why you do abndwdith management by Weighted 
Priority Method.  Let them use the pipe as long as its available, and 
when its not, they are allocated their equal share of time slices (like 
dealing out cards).
 
Maybe it will mean ISPs will enforce acceptable Use 
policies.  MAy a standard day of maintenance for an WISP will no longer 
just be cell site inspections, but random drive by WAR drivingto look for 
unprotected networks of the consumer.  Maybe fees will be assessed on 
non-secured networks. For example, AUP policy list "no sharing" and "secure WIFI 
requirement", and $25 fine per week for service that is left 
unsecured. First time warning, second time auto-added to the bill.  
Maybe it means, ISPS will require access the the end users Wifi ROuter, as a 
terms of service, so it can be managed that WEP is used, and number of connected 
computers. Maybe a 5 computer limit gets added?  
 
Its a very doable option for an ISP to track how 
many connections exist behind a NAT router, by packet inspection. Its also then possible to limit them as well. 
 
 
Then there are the pressures that the home owner 
has based on his own liabilties and performance risks, opening himself up to 
security concerns.
 
The next issue would be  if FON could be sued 
for aiding and embedding. FONs actions are no different than NAPSTER's as far a 
encouragign illegal activity on the Internet.
 
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 982-2181 
  To: wireless@wispa.org ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:08 
  AM
  Subject: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In 
  Washington
  
  For those that still think the all you can eat 
  option is a good one :-)
   
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181   
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage)    
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq)    
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
  This guy needs to get 
  a job from FON… http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200989,00.html 
  
   
  
  
  


  
Wi-Fi 
Company to Sell Routers for Five 
  Dollars

  
Monday, June 
26, 2006


  
  

   

  


  
STORIES
  •
  Reports 
  of Death of Dial-Up Internet Greatly 
  Exaggerated
  
  
   
LONDON 
 — FON, a Spanish start-up on an ambitious crusade to turn 
home Wi-Fi 
connections into wireless "hotspots" for nearby users, is set to unveil 
on Monday a plan to hand out 1 million wireless 
routers for just $5 apiece. 

FON, which 
aims to create a network of home users and small businesses to resell wireless 
access to passersby, said on Sunday it will subsidize $60 Cisco (CSCO) 
Linksys or Buffalo routers for $5 in the 
United States or 5 
euros in Europe.
Routers are 
small boxes users connect to cable or telephone Internet connections to 
broadcast wireless signals to nearby devices, inside a home, business or 
surrounding neighborhood.
Juergen 
Urbanski, North American general manager, said FON, which in February 
raised $21.7 million from backers, including the founders of Google (GOOG) 
and Skype, 
is looking to turn the brand-name equipment into what it calls "social 
routers."
The goal of 
the Madrid-based company is to build block-by-block networks of shared 
wireless connections around the globe, turning local Wi-Fi users into an 
army of "foneros" — its term for people who share wireless 
access.
As the 
company's name implies, FON aims to provide wireless 
Internet access not just to computer users but 
also for mobile phones and the latest portable gaming devices as they 
roam.
(Story 
continues below)
   
  
  
  
  
  From: Kevin Owen 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 
  Monday, June 26, 2006 11:05 AMTo: 'Mike Hall'Subject: FW: Wireless In Washington
   
   
   
  
  
  
  
  From: Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 982-2181 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:53 
  AMTo: webmaster; 
  omimoCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Wireless In Washington
   
  
  Hiya,Comments 
  below.Marlon(509) 
  982-2181   

RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[tonylist]

I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to
output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW
but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd
to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
info.

Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing
the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186
designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
400mW

We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing
our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask,
EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. 

Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its
going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a
built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
--


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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[Tom DeReggi]

What a great idea. Bring on the $5 routers.  
Not only am I not having to spend the $50 to give away the routers myself, I can 
now sell them at $70 bucks.  Many of my wifi users live in the middle 
of the woods with no possibility of a roaming user comming by capable to 
connect. Will they sell to ISPs? :-)
 
Now all I got to do is find someone to finance my 
Trango CPEs for $5. : -)
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mac Dearman 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:26 
PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In 
  Washington
  
  
  This very thing is 
  why I implemented a 5Gig rule up/down aggregate for the month written in my 
  TOS with a $10.00 per Gig over the limit charge.  There is no way 
  possible to keep someone from sharing (although that too is prohibited by my 
  TOS)  their connection today with NAT and if you catch them what are you 
  going to do? Prosecute them? Kick a monthly paying sub off your network? I 
  found that just writing that little “gotcha” in my TOS works best for us. 
  Bring on the $5.00 routers!!  I sale bandwidth for a living and the more 
  I sell the more I make. I am the last one in the world who thinks we ought to 
  limit the amount of up/download data transfer!!
   
  Anyone know where I 
  can in line to buy about a thousand of those $5.00 routers? I’ll bet I can 
  resell them for $80.00 
   
  Mac
  
   
   
   
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff BroadwickSent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:18 
  AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In 
  Washington
   
  Yeah, I saw 
  that...everyone should take a good look at their Terms of 
  Service...
  
   
  Jeff 
  BroadwickImageStream800-813-5123 x106 
  
   
   
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 
  982-2181Sent: Tuesday, June 
  27, 2006 11:09 AMTo: 
  wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In 
  Washington
  
  For those that 
  still think the all you can eat option is a good one :-)
  
   
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181   
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage)    
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq)    
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
   
  
   
  
  - Original 
  Message - 
  This guy needs to get 
  a job from FON… http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200989,00.html 
  
   
  
  
  


  
Wi-Fi 
Company to Sell Routers for Five 
  Dollars

  
Monday, June 
26, 2006


  
  

   

  


  
STORIES
  •
  Reports 
  of Death of Dial-Up Internet Greatly 
  Exaggerated
  
  
   
LONDON 
 — FON, a Spanish start-up on an ambitious crusade to turn 
home Wi-Fi 
connections into wireless "hotspots" for nearby users, is set to unveil 
on Monday a plan to hand out 1 million wireless 
routers for just $5 apiece. 

FON, which 
aims to create a network of home users and small businesses to resell wireless 
access to passersby, said on Sunday it will subsidize $60 Cisco (CSCO) 
Linksys or Buffalo routers for $5 in the 
United States or 5 
euros in Europe.
Routers are 
small boxes users connect to cable or telephone Internet connections to 
broadcast wireless signals to nearby devices, inside a home, business or 
surrounding neighborhood.
Juergen 
Urbanski, North American general manager, said FON, which in February 
raised $21.7 million from backers, including the founders of Google (GOOG) 
and Skype, 
is looking to turn the brand-name equipment into what it calls "social 
routers."
The goal of 
the Madrid-based company is to build block-by-block networks of shared 
wireless connections around the globe, turning local Wi-Fi users into an 
army of "foneros" — its term for people who share wireless 
access.
As the 
company's name implies, FON aims to provide wireless 
Internet access not just to computer users but 
also for mobile phones and the latest portable gaming devices as they 
roam.
(Story 
continues below)
   
  
  
  
  
  From: Kevin Owen 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 
  Monday, June 26, 2006 11:05 AMTo: 'Mike Hall'Subject: FW: Wireless In Washington
   
   
   
  
  
  
  
  From: Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 98

Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

There is a good opinion I was looking for.  That is why I posted this so 
someone could tell me whats wrong with it.  :)


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to
output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW
but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd
to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
info.

Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing
the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186
designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
400mW

We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing
our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask,
EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. 


Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its
going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a
built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972



What does everyone think?



   


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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[rabbtux rabbtux]

I'll be darned, that picture shore looks like the Dlink di514/di524
we use in homes?   :-)

On 6/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to
output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW
but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd
to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
info.

Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing
the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186
designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
400mW

We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing
our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask,
EVM etc and see what this unit truly is.

Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its
going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a
built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
--


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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Well...  I've already found the sub 100 dollar CPE, I just need to import
them.

It has Atheros A/B/G capability, protected G mode, variable channel width
capability, adjustable ack timing, and assorted otehr features.And yes,
that has a replaceable a/b/g mini-pci card, POE capable and all.   Oh, and
it's NOT a bridge.   I hope to import some samples and try them out in a few
days.

And yeah, that's right about $100 for board/radio/power supply.

And a much better feature.   You don't have to deal with Richard at High
Gain Antennas.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Just what we need:   A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna.   Talk about
blasting noise big time.

{{  sigh  }}



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
> 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
> same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
> unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
> looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed
to
> output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
400mW
> but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
> DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
(2nd
> to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
> 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> info.
>

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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[Sam Tetherow]

I just took a look at my graphs for 500 customers, mostly residential, 
and I'm running between 3 and 5 meg 8am to midnight.


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Butch Evans wrote:


On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Travis Johnson wrote:

5GB per month is about a 28.8 dial-up connection running all month 
long. That equates to about 24kbps per user.


1,000 users * 24kbps = 24,000kbps / 1024 = 23Mbps (or about 1/2 of a 
T3) for 1,000 users. 2,000 users would be about 45Mbps.


Does my math work? I guess when you are talking about running 24 
hours per day, it adds up fast.



This would be something to worry about, but bandwidth usage doesn't 
work like this. You'd have to figure that at least 30% of the time, 
there is very little bandwidth usage, so that would leave about 16 
hours/day. Also, comparing a high speed (figure an average of 512k) to 
a 28.8 dialup is not really fair, either. For the about 70% of the 
time that people use bandwidth, you'd be able to safely assume that 
some of these users are daytime and some are nighttime users. I'd 
assume that they are about 75% nightime. So...75% usage would be 
running 5GB during about 5-6 hours/day over a 30 day period.


That is:
(5GB/30)/5 = 33meg/hour = or about 10k/sec average. multiply that by 
the 1000 users, and you only use about 10M during the peak time. 
Ok..so all of you with 1000 users, stand up! :-)


Really, there is not a good way to do this mathematically without a 
solid profile of your peak periods. This requires good graphing of 
your utilization. I'd wager that running 1000 users on a 10M pipe 
would get some complaints. Running 1000 users on a DS3 would probably 
be pretty close to full during peak usage times. Dual DS3 could run 
reasonably well, but that all depends on how much you allow each 
customer.




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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Mark Nash]

No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
per sector.  Sometimes there is a reason things cost.  Everything, and I
mean EVERYTHING has a price.  If you're not paying for it here, you're
paying for it somewhere else.

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


>
> Just what we need:   A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
> spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna.   Talk about
> blasting noise big time.
>
> {{  sigh  }}
>
>
>
> North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
> sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
> Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
> --
--
> -
> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
the
> > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
the
> > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
full
> > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
that
> > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
changed
> to
> > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> 400mW
> > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
the
> > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
> (2nd
> > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
use
> > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> > info.
> >
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

I set my cpe at 15dbm power, and use 18 db antennas.   I have found this
adequate for up to 18 miles.

What do you need 400 mw for?


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
> per sector.  Sometimes there is a reason things cost.  Everything, and I
> mean EVERYTHING has a price.  If you're not paying for it here, you're
> paying for it somewhere else.
>
> Mark Nash
> Network Engineer
> UnwiredOnline.Net
> 350 Holly Street
> Junction City, OR 97448
> http://www.uwol.net
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> >
> > Just what we need:   A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of
the
> > spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna.   Talk about
> > blasting noise big time.
> >
> > {{  sigh  }}
> >
> >
> >
> > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> > personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
> > sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
> > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
>
> --
> --
> > -
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> >
> >
> > > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
> the
> > > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
> the
> > > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
> full
> > > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
> that
> > > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
> changed
> > to
> > > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> > 400mW
> > > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
> the
> > > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side
lobes
> > (2nd
> > > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
> use
> > > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking
a
> > > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up
the
> > > info.
> > >
> >
> > -- 
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
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> >
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Charles Wu]

Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden
costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =)

There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards
spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / cheap
regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down some
ambulance communications service / etc

What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes down
some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies as
a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were
inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system...

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to
output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW
but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd
to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
info.

Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing
the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186
designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
400mW

We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing
our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask,
EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. 

Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its
going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a
built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>
>
>
> What does everyone think?
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden
> costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =)

Name for me any provider of WISP equipment that isn't "foriegn"?No
matter the brand, everything is pretty much assembled somewhere else.  Now,
I'm not trying to equate all things imported, or that there isn't huge
differences in quality between something from say... Alvarion and some
Chinese knock-off of something that already started out cheap.

>
> There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards
> spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty /
cheap
> regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down
some
> ambulance communications service / etc
>
> What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes
down
> some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies
as
> a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were
> inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system...

I'm sure there's plenty of examples of unexpected emissions the world
over... that seems, I keep reading, to include the PAGER industry.

Let's not get carried away here with the "what-ifs".   Seriously, I had some
half-wit tell me I could not use a cell phone within 50 feet of his gas
pumps, due to fire danger.   Let's just say he was incredibly annoyed when I
laughed at his explanation.   I told him that was absurd.  There's far more
danger from him walking around with hard rubber soles on his shoes.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

>
> -Charles
>
>
> ---
> CWLab
> Technology Architects
> http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
> 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
> same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
> unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
> looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed
to
> output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
400mW
> but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
> DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
(2nd
> to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
> 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> info.
>
> Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
> (13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
> in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just
changing
> the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the
RTL8186
> designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
> 400mW
>
> We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
> have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
> level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and
doing
> our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral
mask,
> EVM etc and see what this unit truly is.
>
> Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW
its
> going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.
>
> Sincerely, Tony Morella
> Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
> Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wu
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
> And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
> protocol
>
> -Charles
>
> ---
> CWLab
> Technology Architects
> http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
> hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying t

Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Sam Tetherow]

Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and 
getting what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any 
sense. You don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am 
I missing something here?


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Charles Wu wrote:


Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden
costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =)

There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards
spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / cheap
regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking down some
ambulance communications service / etc

What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes down
some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, someone dies as
a result of this -- then they investigate and you realize that you were
inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an uncertified system...

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed to
output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW
but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd
to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
info.

Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the OFDM
(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp both
in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just changing
the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at all the RTL8186
designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM is 18-20dBm DSSS not
400mW

We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP that
have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do a basic
level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting one and doing
our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test QAM, spectral mask,
EVM etc and see what this unit truly is. 


Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 400mW its
going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor WISP
protocol

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs,
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100
(without antenna, BTW).

Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has a
built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972



What does everyone think?



   


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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Tom DeReggi]

The antenna beamwidth was jsut one of the many palces where they were able 
to cut costs. And everylittle penny is what alowed them to reach the $150 
point.   I wish that hadn't been their goal, and they had included a higher 
DB antenna.


If you open them up you will see how low cost the 5580 antenna is, about the 
size of a large postage stamp, compared to the fox antenna that is much 
larger.


What I don't understand is why they have not released a higher gain antenna 
version. Maybe it is just a marketing ploy, meaning, its also cheap to make 
the Fox5800, so gain interest by promotiing $150 and upsell everyone to the 
$370 CPE for higher profit.


But I really wish Trango would release a higher gain M5580 sooner than 
later. Because in reality, I'm in no better position than I was in 3 years 
ago using Trango 5.8G, because I'm still stuck buying Fox5800s.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


I never understood the 60*x60* beamwidth when the same form factor for the 
fox5800 has a 32x18 beamwidth.  Seems like a very poor design which makes 
it harder to keep noise floor and interference at a minimum.  Surely the 
narrowing of the beamwidth cannot account for more than doubling the 
cost...


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Travis Johnson wrote:

That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have bugs, 
hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to $100 
(without antenna, BTW).


Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it has 
a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 more, the 
range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972



What does everyone think?





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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

Title: Message



If it was, then it would be illegal to block 
hackers and criminals from using your network as well.
As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use 
Policiies, therefore illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and 
enforcable contracts.
 
Strategically its a great time for FON to release 
their venture, to test the rules, the public, and ISPs.
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Charles Wu 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net 
  neutrality
  
  out 
  of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral people) -- would 
  blocking something like FON constitute a violation of net 
  neutrality?
   
  -Charles
   
   
  ---CWLabTechnology 
  Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com 
  

-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick 
SmithSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: [WISPA] www.fon.com 
- a threat to us all?
 
Anyone seen FON 
?   This is insane.
 
Anyone test one 
yet ?   I want to know what network their hotspot runs back to, so 
I can block it
 
Can someone that 
might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
 
 
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Sam Tetherow]

Tom DeReggi wrote:

The antenna beamwidth was jsut one of the many palces where they were 
able to cut costs. And everylittle penny is what alowed them to reach 
the $150 point.   I wish that hadn't been their goal, and they had 
included a higher DB antenna.


If you open them up you will see how low cost the 5580 antenna is, 
about the size of a large postage stamp, compared to the fox antenna 
that is much larger.


What I don't understand is why they have not released a higher gain 
antenna version. Maybe it is just a marketing ploy, meaning, its also 
cheap to make the Fox5800, so gain interest by promotiing $150 and 
upsell everyone to the $370 CPE for higher profit.


The problem I have with this scenario is that it is not a spectrum 
friendly way to upsale.  I would rather pay more for higher bandwidth 
than narrower beamwidth.  I would be much more interested in buying $150 
CPE that has a 1.5M CPE cap instead of a 60*x60* beamwidth, although I 
may be alone in this opinion.  Maybe I'm over estimating the noise 
issue, but it just seems to me like you are having an AP at every house 
with that kind of beamwidth.




But I really wish Trango would release a higher gain M5580 sooner than 
later. Because in reality, I'm in no better position than I was in 3 
years ago using Trango 5.8G, because I'm still stuck buying Fox5800s.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


I never understood the 60*x60* beamwidth when the same form factor 
for the fox5800 has a 32x18 beamwidth.  Seems like a very poor design 
which makes it harder to keep noise floor and interference at a 
minimum.  Surely the narrowing of the beamwidth cannot account for 
more than doubling the cost...


   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Travis Johnson wrote:

That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have 
bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get 
to $100 (without antenna, BTW).


Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, 
it has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For 
$30 more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972



What does everyone think?





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[WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your Input Requested...

[Jason]

List,

   In a few days I am meeting with county officials to address the 
regulations, building codes, and permitting process for WISP's.  When I 
first approached them over a year ago with the desire to build a 
tower-less AP on a hill side (electrical cabinet, solar, sector antenna 
- very simple...), I was handed the building regulations for "Wireless 
Communications Facilities", ie, cell phone towers (think $50k+, & 
contractors are the only ones who can touch it).  I then tried to 
explain that what I am doing is of a different scope and scale, but no 
dice.  Now, after being patient and pursuing the right contacts, I will 
get my 5 minutes.  The people I am meeting with are only vaguely aware 
of wireless internet technology and didn't seem to know what exactly I 
was talking about (although there are several wisps operating in the 
large cities in the county, where the codes are the most rigid...).  
Over the phone I explained it in terms of, "outdoor, large-scale wifi", 
and that people install $200 AP's on grain silos, and that the $50k per 
AP just is not a good fit for this emerging industry.  They seemed very 
open and even glad that someone would address this, even mentioning 
reforming the regulations because of the "increasing technology".


 Therefore, I have inadvertently become the WISP ambassador in my 
County, if only for a moment, and I want to do it right.  Will you help 
me prepare for this meeting?  They would like pictures, drawings, etc.  
Also, I want to have a good outline of what we, as the operators and 
constructors, think the building requirements should be.  I especially 
want to contrast the shortcomings of the cell tower regulations on 
topics such as:



1.  Site Access & Off-The-Street parking: they want a 2 lane road to all 
"commercial structures".  I'd like to have to take a ATV 2 hours up a 
cliff and repel down the side just as a vandalism deterrent (a little 
exaggerated of course, but the great AP sites are all the toughest to 
get to). 

2.  Contractors Do All The Work:  I want to build the unit myself, 
turn-key style; if a contractor has to sit it on the ground or bolt it 
to a pole that's OK.


3.  Permit Required:  Do I need a permit for every AP?  Do the mesh/muni 
guys have to apply for a permit with full engineering drawings, site 
plan showing all utilities, & signatures of every property owner within 
1000' (the cell tower regs require this...), and a public hearing that 
has a 3 month wait list?


4.  6' tall fence around all AP's: no explanation necessary.

5.  Operational Certificate By a Professional Engineer:  Mostly wind 
load language here...


6.  Being Bonded To An Insurer For The Price Of Removal:  In case you 
abandon your "tower", to pay for someone to take it down.


   The area I am trying to serve is rural and mostly a retirement 
community with low income.  My service has to match.  It has to be built 
cheaply, and the regs just don't allow it, not for anyone that wants a ROI.


   Any ideas are more than welcome, and if my documents turn out good 
enough, I'll submit them to the list for others to recycle during their 
5 minutes. 


Sorry for writing a novel,
Jason
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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Sam Tetherow]

I think what Charles is getting at is, is it legal for an ISP to place 
the 'no open AP' or 'no sharing your connection' restriction on your 
service?  I have heard some people arguing the case that NN is "I'm 
paying for my bandwidth so I can do what I want to with it".



   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Tom DeReggi wrote:

If it was, then it would be illegal to block hackers and criminals 
from using your network as well.
As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use Policiies, therefore 
illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and enforcable contracts.
 
Strategically its a great time for FON to release their venture, to 
test the rules, the public, and ISPs.
 
Tom DeReggi

RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
 
 


- Original Message -
*From:* Charles Wu 
*To:* 'WISPA General List' 
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com  - a threat
to us all? - back to net neutrality

out of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral
people) -- would blocking something like FON constitute a
violation of net neutrality?
 
-Charles
 
 


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all?

 
Anyone seen FON ?   This is insane.
 
Anyone test one yet ?   I want to know what network their

hotspot runs back to, so I can block it
 
Can someone that might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
 
 



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!DSPAM:16,44a2c5c4194921117628507! 



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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[tonylist]

Guys

I want to point out we have NOT see this board I do not know for sure what
it is, I thought at first it might be a so called 400mW Senao which is
really about 250mW (they are really pushing the -/+3dBm with this one) but
looking at the images its not any design they have.

Also lets talk about this antenna design, we have been sitting on a sub $100
CPE design for a while now including antenna, designed around a 1-2 mile
CPE. This is a lower power board with 18dBm output power and 10dBm antenna
in a small 6"x6" integrated unit which is plenty for this distance. Issue is
every dB doubles the PCB size thus cost more thus makes the design larger
thus cost more etc etc :) So sub $100 28dBm EIRP unit with router, NAT,
DHCP, bandwidth control etc.. Comments?

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 
 

 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


Just what we need:   A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of the
spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna.   Talk about
blasting noise big time.

{{  sigh  }}



North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to:
mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on the
> 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing the
> same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the full
> unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design that
> looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was changed
to
> output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
400mW
> but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of the
> DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side lobes
(2nd
> to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use
> 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking a
> power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the
> info.
>

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Re: [WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your Input Requested...

[Jack Unger]

Jason,

Here's one place for you to start.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=wireless+isp&btnG=Search

jack


Jason wrote:


List,

   In a few days I am meeting with county officials to address the 
regulations, building codes, and permitting process for WISP's.  When I 
first approached them over a year ago with the desire to build a 
tower-less AP on a hill side (electrical cabinet, solar, sector antenna 
- very simple...), I was handed the building regulations for "Wireless 
Communications Facilities", ie, cell phone towers (think $50k+, & 
contractors are the only ones who can touch it).  I then tried to 
explain that what I am doing is of a different scope and scale, but no 
dice.  Now, after being patient and pursuing the right contacts, I will 
get my 5 minutes.  The people I am meeting with are only vaguely aware 
of wireless internet technology and didn't seem to know what exactly I 
was talking about (although there are several wisps operating in the 
large cities in the county, where the codes are the most rigid...).  
Over the phone I explained it in terms of, "outdoor, large-scale wifi", 
and that people install $200 AP's on grain silos, and that the $50k per 
AP just is not a good fit for this emerging industry.  They seemed very 
open and even glad that someone would address this, even mentioning 
reforming the regulations because of the "increasing technology".


 Therefore, I have inadvertently become the WISP ambassador in my 
County, if only for a moment, and I want to do it right.  Will you help 
me prepare for this meeting?  They would like pictures, drawings, etc.  
Also, I want to have a good outline of what we, as the operators and 
constructors, think the building requirements should be.  I especially 
want to contrast the shortcomings of the cell tower regulations on 
topics such as:



1.  Site Access & Off-The-Street parking: they want a 2 lane road to all 
"commercial structures".  I'd like to have to take a ATV 2 hours up a 
cliff and repel down the side just as a vandalism deterrent (a little 
exaggerated of course, but the great AP sites are all the toughest to 
get to).
2.  Contractors Do All The Work:  I want to build the unit myself, 
turn-key style; if a contractor has to sit it on the ground or bolt it 
to a pole that's OK.


3.  Permit Required:  Do I need a permit for every AP?  Do the mesh/muni 
guys have to apply for a permit with full engineering drawings, site 
plan showing all utilities, & signatures of every property owner within 
1000' (the cell tower regs require this...), and a public hearing that 
has a 3 month wait list?


4.  6' tall fence around all AP's: no explanation necessary.

5.  Operational Certificate By a Professional Engineer:  Mostly wind 
load language here...


6.  Being Bonded To An Insurer For The Price Of Removal:  In case you 
abandon your "tower", to pay for someone to take it down.


   The area I am trying to serve is rural and mostly a retirement 
community with low income.  My service has to match.  It has to be built 
cheaply, and the regs just don't allow it, not for anyone that wants a ROI.


   Any ideas are more than welcome, and if my documents turn out good 
enough, I'll submit them to the list for others to recycle during their 
5 minutes.

Sorry for writing a novel,
Jason


--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com




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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[tonylist]

I can see the need for a clean high power CPE unit with a narrow beam width
because of NLOS issues but for LOS there is no need, also for PtP setups.
We have a bunch of our new RWC units in the field now which will come in
5Ghz and 2.4Ghz 400mW designs and thus far they are doing very well in
testing. The radio used has VERY clean spectral mask and EVM levels which
makes a big difference in performance.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

I set my cpe at 15dbm power, and use 18 db antennas.   I have found this
adequate for up to 18 miles.

What do you need 400 mw for?


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to:
mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


> No kidding...ease of installation at the expense of # of potential clients
> per sector.  Sometimes there is a reason things cost.  Everything, and I
> mean EVERYTHING has a price.  If you're not paying for it here, you're
> paying for it somewhere else.
>
> Mark Nash
> Network Engineer
> UnwiredOnline.Net
> 350 Holly Street
> Junction City, OR 97448
> http://www.uwol.net
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
> >
> > Just what we need:   A 400 mw device, that spews noise across most of
the
> > spectrum, coupled to a 12 db 60 degree wide beam antenna.   Talk about
> > blasting noise big time.
> >
> > {{  sigh  }}
> >
> >
> >
> > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> > personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
> > sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
> > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
>
> --
> --
> > -
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
> >
> >
> > > I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on
> the
> > > 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are doing
> the
> > > same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost of the
> full
> > > unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a RTl8186 design
> that
> > > looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where the software was
> changed
> > to
> > > output 400mW. When you use a basic power meter the "AVERAGE" power was
> > 400mW
> > > but this is a false positive. With this setup the true power output of
> the
> > > DSSS channel did not go up very much. What did go up was the side
lobes
> > (2nd
> > > to 5th!) where on channel 6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only
> use
> > > 20Mhz! An basic average power meter looks at the full band when taking
a
> > > power reading which is confusing if you do not have a SA to back up
the
> > > info.
> > >
> >
> > -- 
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[tonylist]

Brian

Want to be clear not saying anything about this board yet just units I have
seen in the past. Bottom line is WISP need to do there own testing as will
we and report things as we find them. I am interested to see what everyone
finds.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:48 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

There is a good opinion I was looking for.  That is why I posted this so
someone could tell me whats wrong with it.  :)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on 
>the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are 
>doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost 
>of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a 
>RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where 
>the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power 
>meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With 
>this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very 
>much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 
>6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average 
>power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is 
>confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info.
>
>Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the 
>OFDM
>(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp 
>both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just 
>changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at 
>all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM 
>is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW
>
>We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP 
>that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do 
>a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting 
>one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test 
>QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is.
>
>Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 
>400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.
>
>Sincerely, Tony Morella
>Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
>Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
>http://www.demarctech.com
> 
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Charles Wu
>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor 
>WISP protocol
>
>-Charles
>
>---
>CWLab
>Technology Architects
>http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
>That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have 
>bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to 
>$100 (without antenna, BTW).
>
>Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it 
>has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 
>more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>>
>>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>>
>>
>>
>>What does everyone think?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>--
>
>
>  
>
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[WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
75 miles east of St. Louis?

Email me offlist if you wish.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming

John Vogel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[tonylist]

You also need to certify for CE/UL which is in part the power system.

Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 


 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and getting
what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any sense. You
don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am I missing
something here?

Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless

Charles Wu wrote:

>Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden 
>costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =)
>
>There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards 
>spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / 
>cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking 
>down some ambulance communications service / etc
>
>What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes 
>down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, 
>someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you 
>realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an
uncertified system...
>
>-Charles
>
>
>---
>CWLab
>Technology Architects
>http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
>I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on 
>the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are 
>doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost 
>of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a 
>RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where 
>the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power 
>meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With 
>this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very 
>much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 
>6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average 
>power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is 
>confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info.
>
>Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the 
>OFDM
>(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp 
>both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just 
>changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at 
>all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM 
>is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW
>
>We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP 
>that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do 
>a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting 
>one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test 
>QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is.
>
>Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 
>400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.
>
>Sincerely, Tony Morella
>Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
>Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com
> 
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Charles Wu
>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor 
>WISP protocol
>
>-Charles
>
>---
>CWLab
>Technology Architects
>http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:23 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
>That they are working on "developing" a new product that will have 
>bugs, hardware issues, etc. for the first 6-12 months. Trying to get to 
>$100 (without antenna, BTW).
>
>Trango has a $149 unit that is from a company that is established, it 
>has a built in antenna, PoE, etc. and is ready to go today. For $30 
>more, the range goes from 3 miles to 13 miles. ;)
>
>Travis
>Microserv
>
>Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>
>  
>
>>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15749577
>>
>>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16364972
>>
>>
>>
>>What does everyone think?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>--
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[Blake Bowers]

I can tell you, RUN from Carson Mitchell Crane service,
out of Springfield (But they service in St Louis from time
to time.  RUN!!!

Can I emphasize that any more?  RUN

- Original Message - 
From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service



Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
75 miles east of St. Louis?




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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Thanks!  That kind of feedback is useful also.

John



Blake Bowers wrote:
>
> I can tell you, RUN from Carson Mitchell Crane service,
> out of Springfield (But they service in St Louis from time
> to time.  RUN!!!
>
> Can I emphasize that any more?  RUN
>
> - Original Message - From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:42 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service
>
>
>> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
>> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
>> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
>> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
>> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>>
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?

[Stephen Patrick]

Title: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?





... and that being said, when we did testing on our radios for CE, tests included "conducted emissions" which meant in one test, emissions from the cat5 cable connecting our radio unit to the POE injector.

A well-known brand, clearly stamped "CE" and "FCC" approvals on the base, failed miserably.  All the other ones we had passed the test.  We tested others from the same "rogue vendor", those failed too.

Fortunately, we caught this at the appropriate time and we only recommend/sell the good ones.


Bottom line, some people cut too many corners, and the stamped "approval label" may mean nothing.


Best regards


Stephen
==
Cablefree Solutions Ltd
Tel: +44(0)20 8941 7975
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 28 June 2006 19:43
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?



You also need to certify for CE/UL which is in part the power system.


Sincerely, Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008
http://www.demarctech.com 



 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Sam Tetherow
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] $100 CPE?


Not that I disagree with your statement about cheap equipment and getting
what you pay for, but the uncertified comment doesn't make any sense. You
don't certify a POE, you certify the radio and antenna, or am I missing
something here?


Sam Tetherow
Sandhills Wireless


Charles Wu wrote:


>Cheap Taiwanese / Chinese / Foreign products also contain other "hidden 
>costs" -- let's think conspiracy theories here =)
>
>There was a recent thread (on this list?) about Mikrotik RB532 boards 
>spewing <1 Ghz OOB Noise when being powered w/ -48 VDC PoE (a faulty / 
>cheap regulator -- wasn't following that closely) -- effectively taking 
>down some ambulance communications service / etc
>
>What would happen when the DIY WISP deploys such a system -- and takes 
>down some critical communications system, and on the extreme end, 
>someone dies as a result of this -- then they investigate and you 
>realize that you were inadvertently interfering w/ them by using an
uncertified system...
>
>-Charles
>
>
>---
>CWLab
>Technology Architects
>http://www.cwlab.com
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:08 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>
>I am sure Charles and some are you are thinking the same thing I am on 
>the 400mW unit, something just does not add up when manufactures are 
>doing the same power and the cost of the card is the more then the cost 
>of the full unit! I have not see this exact board but I have see a 
>RTl8186 design that looks just like this one that's 80mW-100mW where 
>the software was changed to output 400mW. When you use a basic power 
>meter the "AVERAGE" power was 400mW but this is a false positive. With 
>this setup the true power output of the DSSS channel did not go up very 
>much. What did go up was the side lobes (2nd to 5th!) where on channel 
>6 it took up a full 70Mhz where is can only use 20Mhz! An basic average 
>power meter looks at the full band when taking a power reading which is 
>confusing if you do not have a SA to back up the info.
>
>Look at the spec what did no look right was the power output of the 
>OFDM
>(13.5dBm) vs. the DSSS (26dBm). If they where using a PA is would amp 
>both in DSSS and OFDM modes equally, which is why I think they are just 
>changing the firmware to increase the power on DSSS only. Looking at 
>all the RTL8186 designs I have seen over the past 24 months 13.5 OFDM 
>is 18-20dBm DSSS not 400mW
>
>We will have to wait in see what the true case is, most of the WISP 
>that have been in this for a year or so have some type of SA and can do 
>a basic level test to see for themselves. We of course plan on getting 
>one and doing our own level of testing using high end Agilent to test 
>QAM, spectral mask, EVM etc and see what this unit truly is.
>
>Bottom line if this is a software patch and not designed to a true 
>400mW its going to adversely effect WISP network in a major way.
>
>Sincerely, Tony Morella
>Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider
>Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com
> 
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 
>Behalf Of Charles Wu
>Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: RE: [WISPA] $100 CPE?
>
>And don't forget that it's WiFi vs. a proprietary engineered outdoor 
>WISP protocol
>
>-Charles
>
>---
>CWLab
>Technology Architects
>ht

Re: [WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your InputRequested...

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Well...  I don't know where to start...  But, I'm not "typical" WISP
deployment, either.

I think it wouild probably be smart to explain the difference between most
WISP's and the Cellular companies and others that might erect towers.

1.  You are not a utility.
2.  You are not licensed.
3.   Your business is capitalized to the tune of 10, 20, 50, or maybe 200K
to start up, NOT MILLIONS.
4.   You are NOT "telecommunications".
5.  You are not franchised.
6.   There is no need for the stuff they ask for.
7.   You want to locate on privately owned land.
8.   You're not erecting anything large.

The fact that most of us WISP's are not subject to regulation when it comes
to county regs shoulid factor into this.

You're installing "consumer" gear in some instances.   They really need to
justify regulating you, not the other way around (not a terribly diplomatic
approach, but true just the same).

There's a few pics here of stuff
http://neofast.net/users/mark/pics/wp/

I'll take some more soon.


.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your
InputRequested...


> List,
>
> In a few days I am meeting with county officials to address the
> regulations, building codes, and permitting process for WISP's.  When I
> first approached them over a year ago with the desire to build a
> tower-less AP on a hill side (electrical cabinet, solar, sector antenna
> - very simple...), I was handed the building regulations for "Wireless
> Communications Facilities", ie, cell phone towers (think $50k+, &
> contractors are the only ones who can touch it).  I then tried to
> explain that what I am doing is of a different scope and scale, but no
> dice.  Now, after being patient and pursuing the right contacts, I will
> get my 5 minutes.  The people I am meeting with are only vaguely aware
> of wireless internet technology and didn't seem to know what exactly I
> was talking about (although there are several wisps operating in the
> large cities in the county, where the codes are the most rigid...).
> Over the phone I explained it in terms of, "outdoor, large-scale wifi",
> and that people install $200 AP's on grain silos, and that the $50k per
> AP just is not a good fit for this emerging industry.  They seemed very
> open and even glad that someone would address this, even mentioning
> reforming the regulations because of the "increasing technology".
>
>   Therefore, I have inadvertently become the WISP ambassador in my
> County, if only for a moment, and I want to do it right.  Will you help
> me prepare for this meeting?  They would like pictures, drawings, etc.
> Also, I want to have a good outline of what we, as the operators and
> constructors, think the building requirements should be.  I especially
> want to contrast the shortcomings of the cell tower regulations on
> topics such as:
>
>
> 1.  Site Access & Off-The-Street parking: they want a 2 lane road to all
> "commercial structures".  I'd like to have to take a ATV 2 hours up a
> cliff and repel down the side just as a vandalism deterrent (a little
> exaggerated of course, but the great AP sites are all the toughest to
> get to).
>
> 2.  Contractors Do All The Work:  I want to build the unit myself,
> turn-key style; if a contractor has to sit it on the ground or bolt it
> to a pole that's OK.
>
> 3.  Permit Required:  Do I need a permit for every AP?  Do the mesh/muni
> guys have to apply for a permit with full engineering drawings, site
> plan showing all utilities, & signatures of every property owner within
> 1000' (the cell tower regs require this...), and a public hearing that
> has a 3 month wait list?
>
> 4.  6' tall fence around all AP's: no explanation necessary.
>
> 5.  Operational Certificate By a Professional Engineer:  Mostly wind
> load language here...
>
> 6.  Being Bonded To An Insurer For The Price Of Removal:  In case you
> abandon your "tower", to pay for someone to take it down.
>
> The area I am trying to serve is rural and mostly a retirement
> community with low income.  My service has to match.  It has to be built
> cheaply, and the regs just don't allow it, not for anyone that wants a
ROI.
>
> Any ideas are more than welcome, and if my documents turn out good
> enough, I'll submit them to the list for others to recycle during their
> 5 minutes.
>
> Sorry for writing a novel,
> Jason
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Tom DeReggi]

I understood Charles post regarding net neutrality, that you summarized also 
very clearly.
My point is that Net Neutrality conflicts with other laws and regulations as 
well.
So voting for some thing for one reason, could also mean voting against it 
for another.


For a strong Net NEtrality act, you'd aahve to allow FON, but for other 
leegal matters, you'd have to deny FON.  So it becomes a compflict of which 
issue is more important to protect? Whcih has precidence?


Thats what Congress and ISPs have to decide. Its not a right ro wrong 
answer. Its what answer has more (or more important) rights than wrongs?


I think Home Land Security/Law inforcement/ Privacy advocates, and Net 
Neutrality experets really need to be ALL working on the Net neutrality 
issue together, because its all intertwined.  What I see happening is a 
bunch of conflicting regulations being passed, with out rtealizing it when 
getting voted on.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net 
neutrality



I think what Charles is getting at is, is it legal for an ISP to place the 
'no open AP' or 'no sharing your connection' restriction on your service? 
I have heard some people arguing the case that NN is "I'm paying for my 
bandwidth so I can do what I want to with it".



   Sam Tetherow
   Sandhills Wireless

Tom DeReggi wrote:

If it was, then it would be illegal to block hackers and criminals from 
using your network as well.
As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use Policiies, therefore 
illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and enforcable 
contracts.
 Strategically its a great time for FON to release their venture, to test 
the rules, the public, and ISPs.

 Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message -
*From:* Charles Wu 
*To:* 'WISPA General List' 
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com  - a threat
to us all? - back to net neutrality

out of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral
people) -- would blocking something like FON constitute a
violation of net neutrality?
 -Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all?

 Anyone seen FON ?   This is insane.
 Anyone test one yet ?   I want to know what network their
hotspot runs back to, so I can block it
 Can someone that might have one throw a sniffer against it ?


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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Correction: I should have said... about 75 miles WEST of St. Louis..

J. Vogel wrote:
> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>
> Email me offlist if you wish.
>
> Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming
>
> John Vogel
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Why don't we as an industry organization start putting net neutrality in
clear light.   We've got people running around using the "net neutrality"
banner to demand unfiltered P2P use, unlimited data transfers, or that QOS
NOT be implemented.

I think it would be more constructive if we broke this up a bit and more
clearly focused on certain issues:

1.   restricting end users from sites "for pay".I think this is THE
issue of importance.   Can, say, SBC, demand money from content providers
for SBC's dsl and dialup customers to reach it?

2.  restricting use of a service in TOS agreements with contracted customer.
( limits on transfer,  hosting prohibitions, etc, etc)

3.  Network operations.  (blocking malicious traffic, broadcast packets,
QOS, blah blah)

I see all three of these mixed together under the banner of "net neutrality"
and I think it has done a huge amount ot cloud the debate and discussion,
rather than enlighten or resolve anything.

The big guys are saying "If you want ot reach OUR customers, pay us", while
at the same time, telling thier customers "if you want to reach the
internet, pay us" - but I don't see anything telling thier customers "you
won't be able reach, or you'll have slow access to this list of sites unless
they pay us as well!".

Frankly, I'm all for letting anyone run thier network any way they wish.
But that the customer have protection, in the following manner... That any
ISP that engages in the practice outlined under #1, be required to disclose
that to thier customers, and that they have a publicly available list of all
"restricted" or "degraded" sites for anyone and everyone to examine at thier
leisure.And if they don't, thier customers can sue them.

This is a "consumer protection" law that is relatively non-intrusive, and
certainly doesn't restrict network operations.   In fact, it wouldn't be bad
to apply #2 and #3 partly to this kind of law, as well.   I don't think it
needs to be federal, certainly state laws are more than sufficient.

As a provider's association, WISPA should be issueing press releases and
lobbying to make this an informed debate and clear up some of the confusion
about "net neutrality" and to bring some clarity and clarity to the issues
brought up.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net
neutrality


> I understood Charles post regarding net neutrality, that you summarized
also
> very clearly.
> My point is that Net Neutrality conflicts with other laws and regulations
as
> well.
> So voting for some thing for one reason, could also mean voting against it
> for another.
>
> For a strong Net NEtrality act, you'd aahve to allow FON, but for other
> leegal matters, you'd have to deny FON.  So it becomes a compflict of
which
> issue is more important to protect? Whcih has precidence?
>
> Thats what Congress and ISPs have to decide. Its not a right ro wrong
> answer. Its what answer has more (or more important) rights than wrongs?
>
> I think Home Land Security/Law inforcement/ Privacy advocates, and Net
> Neutrality experets really need to be ALL working on the Net neutrality
> issue together, because its all intertwined.  What I see happening is a
> bunch of conflicting regulations being passed, with out rtealizing it when
> getting voted on.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net
> neutrality
>
>
> >I think what Charles is getting at is, is it legal for an ISP to place
the
> >'no open AP' or 'no sharing your connection' restriction on your service?
> >I have heard some people arguing the case that NN is "I'm paying for my
> >bandwidth so I can do what I want to with it".
> >
> >
> >Sam Tetherow
> >Sandhills Wireless
> >
> > Tom DeReggi wrote:
> >
> >> If it was, then it would be illegal to block hackers and criminals from
> >> using your network as well.
> >> As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use Policiies, therefore
> >> illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and enforcable
> >> contracts.
> >>  Strategically its a great time for FON to release their venture, to
test
> >> the rules, the public, and ISPs.
> >>  Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> *From:* Charles Wu 
> >> *To:* 'WISPA General List' 

RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Dustin Jurman]

Tom,

You have a lot of good points, but so does Charles and others, Why don't you
petition WISPA and some of the other ISP organization to sponsor a Net
Neutrality bakeoff. You can have views from the service provider aspects.  

What needs and will come out of it in the end will be the discussion of how
complex this issue is.  Then Steam it so people can watch get educated on
their own time.  (The ISP organization can brand the daylights out of it for
their contributions). 

Dustin






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net
neutrality

I understood Charles post regarding net neutrality, that you summarized also

very clearly.
My point is that Net Neutrality conflicts with other laws and regulations as

well.
So voting for some thing for one reason, could also mean voting against it 
for another.

For a strong Net NEtrality act, you'd aahve to allow FON, but for other 
leegal matters, you'd have to deny FON.  So it becomes a compflict of which 
issue is more important to protect? Whcih has precidence?

Thats what Congress and ISPs have to decide. Its not a right ro wrong 
answer. Its what answer has more (or more important) rights than wrongs?

I think Home Land Security/Law inforcement/ Privacy advocates, and Net 
Neutrality experets really need to be ALL working on the Net neutrality 
issue together, because its all intertwined.  What I see happening is a 
bunch of conflicting regulations being passed, with out rtealizing it when 
getting voted on.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net 
neutrality


>I think what Charles is getting at is, is it legal for an ISP to place the 
>'no open AP' or 'no sharing your connection' restriction on your service? 
>I have heard some people arguing the case that NN is "I'm paying for my 
>bandwidth so I can do what I want to with it".
>
>
>Sam Tetherow
>Sandhills Wireless
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> If it was, then it would be illegal to block hackers and criminals from 
>> using your network as well.
>> As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use Policiies, therefore 
>> illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and enforcable 
>> contracts.
>>  Strategically its a great time for FON to release their venture, to test

>> the rules, the public, and ISPs.
>>  Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Charles Wu 
>> *To:* 'WISPA General List' 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:32 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] www.fon.com  - a threat
>> to us all? - back to net neutrality
>>
>> out of curiosity (would like input from the pro net neutral
>> people) -- would blocking something like FON constitute a
>> violation of net neutrality?
>>  -Charles
>>
>> ---
>> CWLab
>> Technology Architects
>> http://www.cwlab.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:41 AM
>> *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
>> *Subject:* [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all?
>>
>>  Anyone seen FON ?   This is insane.
>>  Anyone test one yet ?   I want to know what network their
>> hotspot runs back to, so I can block it
>>  Can someone that might have one throw a sniffer against it ?
>>
>>

>> -- 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> !DSPAM:16,44a2c5c4194921117628507!
>
>
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[WISPA] Ok, what DO you want?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Ok, so I found a vendor...   Someone who is OEM'ing boards and products that
are sold by and reccommended by respected members of this list.

Salesman makes the following claims: for capabilities...

Support for higher power, and a/b/g atheros mini-pci cards - supports 2.4
and 5 ghz bands.

POE, either 802.3af or passive

Routing

Distance optimization.  (more than just ack timing adjust)

dhcp

Adjustable channel widths, presumably compatible with MT, Star-OS, and
Ikarus cloaking.

Many other features.

both MIPS and xscale based boards, not all features apply to all boards.

I'd love to make a group purchase (and the supplier would love to sell by
the thousands) after I've evaluated a few samples I'm about to get sent in.

Is anyone interested?Presumable prices for bulk buys would be right
about $100 for board, mini-pci radio of choice and power supply / injector.
I really am not attempting to make any money here, I'd just like to get the
cheaper CPE.   If I flood the name of the vendor, the sales staff may well
stop being willing to sell smaller quantities to non-resellers.

North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

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RE: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[Mark McElvy]

I know there is a crane service in Rolla, MO, never used them and don't
know the name offhand. Did you buy that tower in St James?

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
573.729.9200 - Office
573.729.9203 - Fax
573.247.9980 - Mobile
http://www.accubak.com/
http://www.accubak.net/
Nationwide Internet Access
Accurate backups for your critical data! 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of J. Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

Correction: I should have said... about 75 miles WEST of St. Louis..

J. Vogel wrote:
> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>
> Email me offlist if you wish.
>
> Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming
>
> John Vogel
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   
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Re: [WISPA] Ok, what DO you want?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Isn't this still at least a $200 CPE?

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


Ok, so I found a vendor...   Someone who is OEM'ing boards and products that
are sold by and reccommended by respected members of this list.

Salesman makes the following claims: for capabilities...

Support for higher power, and a/b/g atheros mini-pci cards - supports 2.4
and 5 ghz bands.

POE, either 802.3af or passive

Routing

Distance optimization.  (more than just ack timing adjust)

dhcp

Adjustable channel widths, presumably compatible with MT, Star-OS, and
Ikarus cloaking.

Many other features.

both MIPS and xscale based boards, not all features apply to all boards.

I'd love to make a group purchase (and the supplier would love to sell by
the thousands) after I've evaluated a few samples I'm about to get sent in.

Is anyone interested?Presumable prices for bulk buys would be right
about $100 for board, mini-pci radio of choice and power supply / injector.
I really am not attempting to make any money here, I'd just like to get the
cheaper CPE.   If I flood the name of the vendor, the sales staff may well
stop being willing to sell smaller quantities to non-resellers.

North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

 


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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[Dylan Oliver]

On 6/27/06, George Rogato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind "why" a lot of operators want to dothis or think it's a good thing. But, in my market, cable and DSLdoesn't charge this way. And I'll have to admit that I like to do video
across the net watching news etc.Unfortunately the market place has ruled out metered or measuredbroadband. So we need to think about the future, and the future is abusier network. Not sure I'd want to start charging by the bit at this
point along the way.(just wondering) Do you have something to back up the statement that "the market place has ruled out metered or measured broadband", or only assume so because you do not see it being done? I know WildBlue, for one, meters bandwidth usage and limits it aggresively when one oversteps the allotted amount. And it sounds like Mac is doing pretty well with bandwidth caps. So how again exactly is a usage limit "ruled out"?
Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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[WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?

[Mark Nash]

I'm getting conflicting information from Trango sales reps, their online PDF
datasheet and others who know the product.  So... Does the M900 AP come
connectorized?  If so, what connector?

My application is about 2 miles NLOS (many trees).  Looking to do it with
omni...don't have to go hpol.  Who's using what and are you happy with it?

Thanks!

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax


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Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service

[J. Vogel]

Thanks. I have a call in to Gabriele crane service in Rolla,
but they haven't yet returned it. The tower is in St. James.

John
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mark McElvy wrote:
> I know there is a crane service in Rolla, MO, never used them and don't
> know the name offhand. Did you buy that tower in St James?
>
> Mark McElvy
> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
> 573.729.9200 - Office
> 573.729.9203 - Fax
> 573.247.9980 - Mobile
> http://www.accubak.com/
> http://www.accubak.net/
> Nationwide Internet Access
> Accurate backups for your critical data! 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Missouri Crane service
>
> Correction: I should have said... about 75 miles WEST of St. Louis..
>
> J. Vogel wrote:
>   
>> Sorry for the noise for those of you not familiar with Missouri,
>> but does one of the Wisps on this list operating in Missouri have
>> any recommendations for crane services I should contact to
>> assist in removing a 140` (Rohn SSV) tower located about
>> 75 miles east of St. Louis?
>>
>> Email me offlist if you wish.
>>
>> Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming
>>
>> John Vogel
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   
>> 

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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[Dylan Oliver]

On 6/28/06, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







If it was, then it would be illegal to block 
hackers and criminals from using your network as well.
As FON clearly has no concern for Acceptable Use 
Policiies, therefore illegal activity, and AUPs are clearly allowable and 
enforcable contracts.
 
Strategically its a great time for FON to release 
their venture, to test the rules, the public, and ISPs. Wow, have any of you actually reviewed their site? OMFG the sky is falling ! You may
be interested in http://en.fon.com/biz/isps_friends.php.Also, the Terms and Conditions of Use CLEARLY states:4. Prior RequirementsThe user that opts for the Linus or Bill category, should, prior to accepting these
T&Cs and before registering with the FON Community:(i) have a FON Social Router or a router that is compatible with the FONSoftware and (ii) have a contract with an ISP that permits the FONero to share
bandwidth.Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?

[Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE]

Mark Nash wrote:

I'm getting conflicting information from Trango sales reps, their online PDF
datasheet and others who know the product.  So... Does the M900 AP come
connectorized?  If so, what connector?

My application is about 2 miles NLOS (many trees).  Looking to do it with
omni...don't have to go hpol.  Who's using what and are you happy with it?

Thanks!
  
Hi Mark...I have one and it does have a connector; I believe it's 
Reverse SMA. We're not deployed yet but I'm going to be using it with an 
omni as well. Take care leon

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax


  


--
*Leon Zetekoff*
Proprietor  
*Work:* 484-335-9920
*Mobile:* 610-223-8642
*Fax:* 484-335-9921
*Email:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*http://www.linkedin.com/in/leonzetekoff*
*BackWoods Wireless*
 505 B Main Street
 
Blandon, PA 19510

"Bringing Broadband Technology to Rural Areas"

See who we know in common  	Want 
a signature like this? 


begin:vcard
fn:Leon Zetekoff
n:Zetekoff;Leon
org:BackWoods Wireless
adr;dom:;;505 B Main Street;Blandon;PA;19510
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Owner
tel;work:484-335-9920
tel;fax:484-335-9921
tel;home:610-916-0230
tel;cell:610-223-8642
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.backwoodswireless.net
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: [WISPA] Ok, what DO you want?

[N White]

Is this an all-in-one antenna included, or not?


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

Ok, so I found a vendor...   Someone who is OEM'ing boards and products that
are sold by and reccommended by respected members of this list.

Salesman makes the following claims: for capabilities...

Support for higher power, and a/b/g atheros mini-pci cards - supports 2.4
and 5 ghz bands.

POE, either 802.3af or passive

Routing

Distance optimization.  (more than just ack timing adjust)

dhcp

Adjustable channel widths, presumably compatible with MT, Star-OS, and
Ikarus cloaking.

Many other features.

both MIPS and xscale based boards, not all features apply to all boards.

I'd love to make a group purchase (and the supplier would love to sell by
the thousands) after I've evaluated a few samples I'm about to get sent in.

Is anyone interested?Presumable prices for bulk buys would be right
about $100 for board, mini-pci radio of choice and power supply / injector.
I really am not attempting to make any money here, I'd just like to get the
cheaper CPE.   If I flood the name of the vendor, the sales staff may well
stop being willing to sell smaller quantities to non-resellers.

North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

  



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Re: [WISPA] www.fon.com - a threat to us all? - back to net neutrality

[David E. Smith]

Dylan Oliver wrote:

> http://en.fon.com/biz/isps_friends.php.
> 
> (i) have a FON Social Router or a router that is compatible with the FON
> Software and (ii) have a contract with an ISP that permits the FONero to
> share bandwidth.

And how many of your customers actually read all the fine print in your
TOS? I know mine don't. :(

David Smith
MVN.net
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RE: [WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?

[Mac Dearman]

Mark,

 The M900AP (every one of them) have your choice of either integrated HPOL
or VPOL antenna's that is software switchable or external antenna fitting.
The external antenna fitting is a RP-SMA. I have several of the PAC Wireless
V Pol antennas that I tried, but the noise in the sticks in the 900MHz range
is more than expected and I had to buy the HPOL PacWireless Omnis - which by
the ay - - work fantastic!

Mac 






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Nash
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?

I'm getting conflicting information from Trango sales reps, their online PDF
datasheet and others who know the product.  So... Does the M900 AP come
connectorized?  If so, what connector?

My application is about 2 miles NLOS (many trees).  Looking to do it with
omni...don't have to go hpol.  Who's using what and are you happy with it?

Thanks!

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax


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RE: [WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?

[JNA]

Yes - RP-SMA

John Buwa
Michiana Wireless


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Nash
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:40 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Trango M900 AP - Connectorized?
> 
> I'm getting conflicting information from Trango sales reps, their online
> PDF
> datasheet and others who know the product.  So... Does the M900 AP come
> connectorized?  If so, what connector?
> 
> My application is about 2 miles NLOS (many trees).  Looking to do it with
> omni...don't have to go hpol.  Who's using what and are you happy with it?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark Nash
> Network Engineer
> UnwiredOnline.Net
> 350 Holly Street
> Junction City, OR 97448
> http://www.uwol.net
> 541-998-
> 541-998-5599 fax
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Ok, what DO you want?

[Mark Koskenmaki]

it is what I said it is... a board, atheros based radio, power supply.

For a full cpe you'll need a pigtail, enclosure, and antenna.   That makes
it about 140 to 170.

I very much dislike rootennas, and haven't seen any alternatives I like.

North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "N White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ok, what DO you want?


> Is this an all-in-one antenna included, or not?
>
>
> Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
> > Ok, so I found a vendor...   Someone who is OEM'ing boards and products
that
> > are sold by and reccommended by respected members of this list.
> >
> > Salesman makes the following claims: for capabilities...
> >
> > Support for higher power, and a/b/g atheros mini-pci cards - supports
2.4
> > and 5 ghz bands.
> >
> > POE, either 802.3af or passive
> >
> > Routing
> >
> > Distance optimization.  (more than just ack timing adjust)
> >
> > dhcp
> >
> > Adjustable channel widths, presumably compatible with MT, Star-OS, and
> > Ikarus cloaking.
> >
> > Many other features.
> >
> > both MIPS and xscale based boards, not all features apply to all boards.
> >
> > I'd love to make a group purchase (and the supplier would love to sell
by
> > the thousands) after I've evaluated a few samples I'm about to get sent
in.
> >
> > Is anyone interested?Presumable prices for bulk buys would be right
> > about $100 for board, mini-pci radio of choice and power supply /
injector.
> > I really am not attempting to make any money here, I'd just like to get
the
> > cheaper CPE.   If I flood the name of the vendor, the sales staff may
well
> > stop being willing to sell smaller quantities to non-resellers.
> >
> > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
> > personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
> > sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
> > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
>
> --
--
> > -
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Wireless In Washington

[George Rogato]

Wild Blue , good example. Wild Blue is a fringe broadband player.
Cable and DSL set the rules. They are the majority of the market.
The majority of the market does not charge by the bit, but the fringe does.

Guess thats proof enough.

George

Dylan Oliver wrote:
On 6/27/06, *George Rogato* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


I understand the reasoning behind "why" a lot of operators want to do
this or think it's a good thing. But, in my market, cable and DSL
doesn't charge this way. And I'll have to admit that I like to do video
across the net watching news etc.

Unfortunately the market place has ruled out metered or measured
broadband. So we need to think about the future, and the future is a
busier network. Not sure I'd want to start charging by the bit at this
point along the way.


(just wondering) Do you have something to back up the statement that 
"the market place has ruled out metered or measured broadband", or only 
assume so because you do not see it being done? I know WildBlue, for 
one, meters bandwidth usage and limits it aggresively when one oversteps 
the allotted amount. And it sounds like Mac is doing pretty well with 
bandwidth caps. So how again exactly is a usage limit "ruled out"?


Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



--
George Rogato

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