Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per minute? .2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
care to share who you're using for termination or how much volume you're purchasing? Matt Liotta wrote: Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per minute? .2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
I can't share that information. -Matt Brian Whigham wrote: care to share who you're using for termination or how much volume you're purchasing? Matt Liotta wrote: Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per minute? .2 cents; 2 cents a minute wouldn't be a very good deal. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance - 911
Nuvio and CommPartners rely on Intrada for 911, just like Vonage. As the Vonage IPO so clearly pointed out, 911 coverage is spotty at best. Residential 911 is harder due to the nomadic possibilities. CallVantage has taken measures to cover their butts and Lingo is working on it. But Intrado is in the mist of being purchased, so 911 will be murky for the foreseeable future. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. John Scrivner wrote: The Nuvio guy told me they did not have 911 when I talked to them. When did this change? Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Delta3 - is the EBITA? DSJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell bandwidth or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it directly outside of specific niches such as call centers. We have provisioned hundreds of phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone lines, but our actual monthly cost for providing the service outside of equipment, bandwidth, and other overhead is around $200 per month. With that kind of expense we could give away service as a loss leader and not even notice it. Do you think we are alone? We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our customers. This is not the case for the Vonages of the world. -Matt Jason Hensley wrote: For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser? I have just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and options. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
John, Primus has two seperate Voice products. Their Business (primus) service is the answer for WISPs/ISPs, that jsut want to sell an analog replacement line to a business to sue their existin PBX. Primus actually embrases this unlike just about every other VOIP wholesaler on the planet. The big margin profit isn't there when partnering with Primus, but its great for the smaller guy, that doesn't want to do much. The WISP gets the Lead, lets Primus do the heavy lifting, and the WISP gets a reasonable commission. Not as much as if they rebranded it, but enough since they don't have to do much. Its a good partner when the WISP wants to concentrate on its core competency, and let the VOIP guy do his thing, but get a peice of the action, and offer their customers a full suite of servcies. So whether Primus is the right provider depends on the commitment that a WISP wants to make. From what I heard Lingo was going to be offered to resellers in the near future, to Primus resellers. I actually signed up with Primus for my business offerings, but I have not been very active with them much yet, as I needed a residential VOIP service. I'm watching closely to what they do with Lingo. The reason is Lingo is priced to be competitive with all the other Direct residential providers. Thats not necessarilly the WISP's goal. I want to charge more because I can. I can guarantee performance (QOS) of my branded service, depending on the view of network neutrality. Customers want one bill. And I want bigger margins, meaning, standard percentage commission when sold at Lingo retial, but when sold at higher price I want that margin, as its my network relationship that allows it, and I that need to spend money to upgrade my network to handle delivering top performance. The idea is to only sell the VOIP service that you can guarantee the best performance in. And the network provider needs a bigger peice for that. But a larger end user price can be charged as well. I have not made a decission on wether Lingo will or will not be a good option for WISPs and myself. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Did they happen to list executive's salaries? A company doesn't have to be profitable for the officers to be profitable. Good tax planning does not necessarilly, reflect the real health of the company. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Delta3 - is the EBITA? DSJ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone. Do you see that as what we're headed to? I do and I don't personally. I think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline. Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, at least on some level. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell bandwidth or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it directly outside of specific niches such as call centers. We have provisioned hundreds of phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone lines, but our actual monthly cost for providing the service outside of equipment, bandwidth, and other overhead is around $200 per month. With that kind of expense we could give away service as a loss leader and not even notice it. Do you think we are alone? We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our customers. This is not the case for the Vonages of the world. -Matt Jason Hensley wrote: For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser? I have just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and options. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Primus is a big International LD company. That is how it began in 1994. Check out the Primus Wireless plan. Cellular and VOIP are based in International exchanges. Primus has short term debt of $26M; long term is $635M. About to be de-listed from Nasdaq. Net loss for the fourth quarter 2005 was ($25) million (including a $13 million net loss from foreign currency transactions, a $4 million gain on early extinguishment of debt and $1 million in severance expense). Revenue growth was in wireless (MVNO), Covad re-sale, and International markets. Retail VOIP services grew modestly in the quarter to approximately 104,000 customers. This growth level reflects the fact that the Company continued to moderate its investment in LINGO in part due to the disruption in marketing activities raised by E911 regulations. Revenue from retail VOIP customers reached $8 million during the fourth quarter. John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
so should primus be avoided? Dan Metcalf Wireless Broadband Systems www.wbisp.com 781-566-2053 ext 6201 1-888-wbsystem (888) 927-9783 [EMAIL PROTECTED] support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:05 PM To: John Scrivner Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus is a big International LD company. That is how it began in 1994. Check out the Primus Wireless plan. Cellular and VOIP are based in International exchanges. Primus has short term debt of $26M; long term is $635M. About to be de-listed from Nasdaq. Net loss for the fourth quarter 2005 was ($25) million (including a $13 million net loss from foreign currency transactions, a $4 million gain on early extinguishment of debt and $1 million in severance expense). Revenue growth was in wireless (MVNO), Covad re-sale, and International markets. Retail VOIP services grew modestly in the quarter to approximately 104,000 customers. This growth level reflects the fact that the Company continued to moderate its investment in LINGO in part due to the disruption in marketing activities raised by E911 regulations. Revenue from retail VOIP customers reached $8 million during the fourth quarter. John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 03/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 03/06/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Hi Scriv, We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and people calling our ported number often got a busy signal when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the phone, they should not have received a busy signal because we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During the first week or two after our number was ported, some callers received a This number has been disconnected message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run. Sincerely, Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky http://www.KyWiFi.com http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com Phone: 859.274.4033 A Broadband Phone Internet Provider == Wireless Broadband, Local Calling and UNLIMITED Long Distance only $69! No Taxes, No Regulatory Fees, No Hassles FREE Site Survey: http://www.KyWiFi.com == - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
My understanding is that many rural markets can be accessed using tandem PRIs. For example, using tandems in GA I can get access numbers for the entire state with only 10 actual circuits. Though, each circuit can only handle 23 incoming calls at once, so to support a large user base it would require many more circuits. But, just get started providing service to the entire state all I need is 10 circuits. Therefore, it will only be a matter of time before even rural areas have access numbers from VoIP providers. In the mean time, by all means get a PRI from a local CLEC and start selling VoIP. If you get good enough at it, you can even start selling routes to other VoIP providers; that is our plan for rural GA. -Matt Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone. Do you see that as what we're headed to? I do and I don't personally. I think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline. Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, at least on some level. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Quite simply, VoIP will be free in the long run. Use it to sell bandwidth or what have you, but don't plan on profiting from it directly outside of specific niches such as call centers. We have provisioned hundreds of phone numbers and sold hundreds of phone lines, but our actual monthly cost for providing the service outside of equipment, bandwidth, and other overhead is around $200 per month. With that kind of expense we could give away service as a loss leader and not even notice it. Do you think we are alone? We own the network, so VoIP is easy and cheap to provide our customers. This is not the case for the Vonages of the world. -Matt Jason Hensley wrote: For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser? I have just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and options. Thanks! - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Issues such as LNP, E-911, 411, CALEA, yellow page listings, and taxes will take a bite out of any profit. Even termination, origination and DIDs cost money. Let's say you get a 2 way CLEC PRI for $615 + DIDs at $10 per 20. And let's say the CLEC will do your LNP and 911. $615 divided by 23 ports is $26.75 per line (not including taxes nad fees). You can over-subscribe about 5:1 for Resi, so your port cost is $5.35 + $5 in fees say = $10. LD Termination varies: switched is $0.03; Ded LD is $0.17 plus the T1 line; VoIP LD Termination is $0.018 from Primus. Average LD is 300 minutes = $5.40 That's $15 of cost without factoring in labor, admin, etc. Someone like delta3 has plans for $15.99. Plus now instead of bursty traffic you have steady streams, so please engineer your networks accordingly. Next, you have the CPE and install costs. Plus bad debt on International calls as well as on the local dial-tone. In addition, Billing costs are about $1.50. Mind you , this was just one quick case. Regards, Peter Jason Hensley wrote: For someone like me who is currently looking at getting into the VoIP business, why is it that you feel VoIP will be a long-term loser? I have just started my research into what it will take to provide this so I'm a little behind on it, but I'm definately interested in all opinions and options. Thanks! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt! We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble access from a fellow WISP...etc I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and thoughts on that :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
I, for one, appreciate all of the comments. This is what I'm looking for - the good, bad, and ugly, to figure out whether I even want to dive into this market. - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice. Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?) But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for Dedicated LD). E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available). You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one). But Voice is way different from Data. One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed. Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the growing monster? You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP. Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking for $220M In 1Q05: Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should. Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture. In 2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone. Do you see that as what we're headed to? I do and I don't personally. I think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline. Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, at least on some level. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
You might have just had a bad experience. I beta tested the Primus Business VOIP product in 2004 and my only complaint was that after talking for 75 minutes on one call, it would die. And the Cisco ATA needed to be rebooted a lot. Peter KyWiFi LLC wrote: Hi Scriv, We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and people calling our ported number often got a busy signal when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the phone, they should not have received a busy signal because we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During the first week or two after our number was ported, some callers received a This number has been disconnected message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run. Sincerely, Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky http://www.KyWiFi.com http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com Phone: 859.274.4033 A Broadband Phone Internet Provider -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance. -Matt Mac Dearman wrote: I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt! We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble access from a fellow WISP...etc I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and thoughts on that :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
You're a CLEC, right? Matt Liotta wrote: The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
VoIP is an essential part of your offerings. We target business customers and try to sell SDSL style services instead of ADSL style as it's just as easy for us to deliver a symmetrical service then it is to deliver an asymmetric service. The key to selling the symmetric service is by showing the customer the applications available that would require upstream bandwidth like supporting remote workers and of course VoIP. We don't make profit from the VoIP directly but when you consider that SDSL is 4-6x more expensive than ADSL you can make the profit up else where ;) Cheers, P. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: 06 March 2006 20:00 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance. -Matt Mac Dearman wrote: I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt! We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble access from a fellow WISP...etc I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and thoughts on that :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Nope -Matt Peter R. wrote: You're a CLEC, right? Matt Liotta wrote: The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Matt, I have no doubt, that you are prepairing yourself well for the future regarding VOIP. Its decissions like the ones you made to do MPLS and Redundant paths (in your case wired MESH), that will empower you to more reliably offer your own VOIP services On-Net, like you are doing. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. However, that statement I do not agree with. I belive you concentrate first on mastering your core fundamental service, in many cases for WISPs, its wireless. Until they got it perfect, wasting time on an additional service to also do partially well, is a mistake. When a WISP reaches the point that they can offer their wireless well and take on providing their own VOIP services well, then sure its a good decissions. Most WISPs expecially start ups ARE NOT in that possition. I see to many WISP fail because they take on more than they can handle. Its tough dealing with outsource companies that start providing poor service to your clients, but its even worse when you start providing poor service to your own clients yourself. When its the outsourced company, you can always shift blame to them, but when its yourself you have no choice but face the fire, without excuses. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Wow. That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to the consumer via a verticle sell. So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order time, its worth gold. Way more than 10-14% commissions. Should we be paying our wholesale VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it would infer by Vonage's numbers above. Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice. Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?) But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for Dedicated LD). E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available). You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one). But Voice is way different from Data. One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed. Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the growing monster? You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP. Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking for $220M In 1Q05: Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should. Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture. In 2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone. Do you see that as what we're headed to? I do and I don't personally. I think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline. Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot be profitable, at least on some level. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
RANT I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out but without e911. I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our service just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this whole e911 thing is a fscking nightmare. At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go forward? Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this already? The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after year. I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 adoption or throw it out for voip carriers. It is definitely a gray area right now. /RANT Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom DeReggi wrote: Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Wow. That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to the consumer via a verticle sell. So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order time, its worth gold. Way more than 10-14% commissions. Should we be paying our wholesale VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it would infer by Vonage's numbers above. Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice. Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?) But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for Dedicated LD). E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available). You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one). But Voice is way different from Data. One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed. Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the growing monster? You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP. Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking for $220M In 1Q05: Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should. Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture. In 2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more people who want wireless Internet SOLELY because they do not have a home phone line other than their cell phone. Do you see that as what we're headed to? I do and I don't personally. I think there will be a market of some kind for that, but I feel as well that for at least the foreseeable future (say 10 years or so), markets such as mine will not be doing away with wireline. Too many challenges for both cellular providers, and WISP's due to terrain and sparseness of population. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why it cannot
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Matt, What type VoIP are you beta-testing? We are currently looking at asterisk, but I am concerned about how many subscribers I can maintain per PRI. So far the numbers I am getting do not add up to profitability. I almost makes more sense to resell another providers product. Victoria -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance RANT I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out but without e911. I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our service just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this whole e911 thing is a fscking nightmare. At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go forward? Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this already? The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after year. I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 adoption or throw it out for voip carriers. It is definitely a gray area right now. /RANT Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom DeReggi wrote: Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Wow. That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to the consumer via a verticle sell. So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order time, its worth gold. Way more than 10-14% commissions. Should we be paying our wholesale VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it would infer by Vonage's numbers above. Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice. Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?) But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for Dedicated LD). E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available). You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one). But Voice is way different from Data. One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed. Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the growing monster? You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP. Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking for $220M In 1Q05: Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should. Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture. In 2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever and work with them on getting local VoIP numbers for the folks in these areas? I'm getting more and more
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
We aren't beta testing anything. We have been providing VoIP to our customers for over a year now and we do use Asterisk. -Matt Victoria wrote: Matt, What type VoIP are you beta-testing? We are currently looking at asterisk, but I am concerned about how many subscribers I can maintain per PRI. So far the numbers I am getting do not add up to profitability. I almost makes more sense to resell another providers product. Victoria -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance RANT I've got working VOIP on my network, beta-tested and ready to roll out but without e911. I like VOIP, because I have people subscribing to our service just so they can get Vonage and ditch their land line - but this whole e911 thing is a fscking nightmare. At what point does it make more sense to say screw the 911 and just go forward? Aren't there a bunch of VOIP providers out there doing this already? The cellcos have bought out their 911 requirements year after year. I sense a court case in the making that will either force 911 adoption or throw it out for voip carriers. It is definitely a gray area right now. /RANT Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom DeReggi wrote: Revenue: 174.0 million net Loss $189.6million our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Wow. That would support my arguement that there is no part of the equation more valuable than the portion responsible for the unique access to the consumer via a verticle sell. So if I'm a wireless company, and its just thirty seconds to say, would you like a VOIP phone with that broadband service at order time, its worth gold. Way more than 10-14% commissions. Should we be paying our wholesale VOIP provider only $5 out of the $25 that we charge? Thats what it would infer by Vonage's numbers above. Maybe Vonage should have taken partners more seriously? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Because Vonage et al, sell Resi VOIP cheaper than TDM Voice. Why? Easier to market. Easier to take orders (notice I did not say sell?) But termination will be going up (already seeing rising costs for Dedicated LD). E-911 is not cheap (nor is it nationally available). You can try to work with a friendly CLEC (or become one). But Voice is way different from Data. One bad 911 and you are being sued and possibly jailed. Wouldn't you rather offer services that aren't competing against the growing monster? You would be better off selling cellular for a residual than selling VOIP. Vonage was going to IPO last year for $660M; this year they are looking for $220M In 1Q05: Vonage Holdings Corp. Founded in 2001, the Edison (N.J.) provider of Internet phone service has raised $210 million and last year racked up about $100 million in revenue. It has spent enough on marketing in a bid to make itself a household name, and several VCs say it will go public this year or next. But critics complain that while its ads attract new customers, it doesn't retain as many as it should. Om says Vonage IPO. I don't think they can wait. Reports are their growth is slowing, that costs are rising and that founder Jeffrey Citron has a bundle of his own cash in the venture. In 2006: /The street writes: Vonage Holdings, moved to become the first major Internet telephony player to go public by filing Wednesday to raise up to $250 million via an initial offering of stock and named a Tyco International executive as CEO. Our revenues were $18.7million in 2003, $79.7million in 2004, and $174.0 million for the nine months ended Sept. 30, 2005, the company's prospectus says.While our revenues have grown rapidly, we have experienced increasing net losses, primarily driven by our increase in marketing expenses. From the period of inception through Sept.30, 2005, our cumulative net loss was $310 million. Our net loss for the nine months ended Sept.30, 2005, was $189.6million. During the same nine-month period, our marketing expenses were $176.3million./ Jason Hensley wrote: What about for those of us in small markets where the large VoIP players don't have access numbers? What is your opinion on them coming here? For instance, I'm in an area where the closest VoIP provider's number is 100 miles away with probably 25 or so NXX's that cannot call it locally. Not a feasible decision for a local business as any phone calls to them will be long distance for local residents. Is there a case for or against partnering / working with a CLEC who has the ability to be WAY more flexible than the ILEC's, have them drop you DS1's / PRI's / whatever
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
snip I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and thoughts on that :-) /snip Mac, You need some BEER -N- WIRELESS GEAR -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
snip We pay between $0.002 to $0.005 per minute on average for domestic long distance. /snip Matt, Out of curiosity...do you mean 2-5 cents per minute? Or 0.2 to 0.5 cents per minute? -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance The notion of avoiding toll costs by working with other WISPs sounds great in theory. From our standpoint, it would cost us more to connect to a single WISP than to pay our entire long distance bill. -Matt Mac Dearman wrote: I agree with that bit of advice whole heartedly Matt! We are in the process of setting up our own VoIP solution as we speak. I think that by the time that 100 of us WISPs get into our own VoIP offerings we can allow access from the other WISPs PRI's...etc for PSTN access to limit the amount of LD charges if their is availble access from a fellow WISP...etc I think everyone of us need to be in our own VoIP business!! I have even given thought to a Coop kind of deal, but I need to have some more beer and thoughts on that :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance In our case, the most expense part of our VoIP deployment was getting our network ready to support it correctly. Whether the backend is outsourced doesn't affect the requirement to support end-to-end QoS. Therefore, I believe that you should either get in all the way or not at all. The worst thing in the world you could do is bundle a 3rd party service that doesn't work very well and then because it is outsourced not be able to fix it. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: MAtt, I agree with you on most of your comments. However, there is more to it. Offering VOIP is not just about making money on it. Its about controlling who has access to your subscribers, if one does not have the time to be a VOIP provider themselves. Bundling is a necessarily part of succeeding going in to the future. Its more important that ever to outsource VOIP, if it will likely never be a profitable business. let someone else loose the money, and reap the rewards of bundling today. Give the companies access to your clients that will be the lowest threat. What benefit is it to allow, Vonage, ATT, Comcast, Verizon access to your client base, by allowing your subscribers to choose their VOIP options? So Matt, I agree if the ISP/WISP intends to make significant money on the service, build your own. But don't knock the Primus/CommPartner models, they have their purpose and will enable many WISPs/ISPs to have an option to offer, that don;t have the resources to build their own. What this industry needs to recognize is that there are industry trends that are going to gain market share, because consumers demand them and are willing to buy. They don't care who makes or looses money, they jsut know how to compare retail price they pay to the quality the receive. JUst like Muni broadband, its a reality of something that is going to happen. So my point is, pick the companies that you want to help succeed, and which ones you want to help NOT succeed, because some of them ARE going to succeed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus/Lingo is calling every WISP in the country trying to sign them up for a very CommPartners like deal. All of these VoIP providers are using the same shitty model that will be worthless in 2 years time. There is no money to be made in VoIP short-term unless you operate your own equipment. Long-term, there is no money to be made in VoIP at all. VoIP will soon be a loss leader; plan for it or do get into the VoIP business. BTW, Primus makes all their money on international termination. The domestic stuff is losing money hand over fist. -Matt John Scrivner wrote: Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
I really have to say that I had the opposite experience. My Lingo, dicey for the first 6 months a couple of years ago, has been rock solid for the past 18 months since I got the newer boxes (USTARCOM). The voice quality was not as good as Vonage unless you select the higher quality option on your personal features Web page. It is set to work well over DSL but a cable connection will sound good with the higher quality option. However, it will also work over a dial-up modem to a dialup ISP (my cable router's backup route thru my lifeline...a business FAX line I wanted to keep)! I have always been able to get a Canadian tech of very high quality when I pressed the agent. I have waited anywhere from 2 to 20 minutes for an agent, however, but don't know recently since I have had no problems. Yes, there have been glitches, but very few. I get many more with SKYPE and all circuits are busy is frequent with my office SBC (oops, AT). On the whole, I wouldn't run from Lingo. The number porting anomolies and error responses may not be all their doing. But, maybe it is. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Hi Scriv, We tried Lingo but could not get it to work reliably and their voice quality was horrible when it did work. Their support is overseas so expect to be treated like a number instead of a person. LNP's are hard to get approved and people calling our ported number often got a busy signal when we were not on the phone. Even if we were on the phone, they should not have received a busy signal because we their service is suppose to include call waiting. During the first week or two after our number was ported, some callers received a This number has been disconnected message when they called us. My advice is to turn and run. Sincerely, Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky http://www.KyWiFi.com http://www.KyWiFiVoice.com Phone: 859.274.4033 A Broadband Phone Internet Provider == Wireless Broadband, Local Calling and UNLIMITED Long Distance only $69! No Taxes, No Regulatory Fees, No Hassles FREE Site Survey: http://www.KyWiFi.com == - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Primus tells me they are more than a VOIP company and that they do make money. They impressed me in my dealings with them. Can you share more about your information about Primus? I have a big interest in knowing anything I can about them right now. Thanks, Scriv Peter R. wrote: You haven't seen it yet, because Lingo is not profitable yet. Primus owns Lingo and Primus is basically an International VOIP company. Like so many VOIP Providers, they are still trying to figure out how to make a profit. Delta3 (which is the backend for VZ's VoiceWing) made $9.1M in revenue in 4Q05 and just $22k in income. Vonage has a customer acquisition cost that is 20 times their MRC. Regards, Peter Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys. No one, and I've looked and spoken to many, has 337-774 portable... JohnnyO wrote: Ok - #1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. #2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option #3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts. #4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features. I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office. I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also. JohnnyO On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote: Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area. This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - you can't provide it either :) Please let me know if you can... 337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* WISPA
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number shouldnt be a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out of any business any way. Roll that important number into the * box as an inbound line only and have it roll over the calls to the VoIP lines. It would never do anything but have inbound phone calls coming across it and could serve as a backup in case their WISP decided to take a vacation during the busy season and the wireless goes down. :) J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could knock out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic across your network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee for that eh? :) Holler if we can help Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys. No one, and I've looked and spoken to many, has 337-774 portable... JohnnyO wrote: Ok - #1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. #2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option #3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts. #4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features. I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office. I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also. JohnnyO On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote: Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area. This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com http://www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us http://www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org http://www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Mac, you're right, but the local-dialing problem is the one Johnny's trying to solve, with NO CALL FORWARDING involved, which would incur him extra charges... The problem is this company's customers in the local area dialing them 9 - 12000 minutes / month, and if they're dialing a 337-774 number now, there's NO WAY you can get local numbers to that on PRIs or BRIs or T-1s - only POTS in Johnny's facility, which then incurs huge charges. The ONE option I suggested to Johnny was getting an 800#, and call forwarding the local 337-774 numbers to that 800#, but then that company would pay for the toll-free minutes No easy away around it at the moment, I'm afraid... Mac Dearman wrote: The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number shouldnt be a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out of any business any way. Roll that important number into the * box as an inbound line only and have it roll over the calls to the VoIP lines. It would never do anything but have inbound phone calls coming across it and could serve as a backup in case their WISP decided to take a vacation during the busy season and the wireless goes down. :) J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could knock out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic across your network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee for that eh? :) Holler if we can help Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys. No one, and I've looked and spoken to many, has 337-774 portable... JohnnyO wrote: Ok - #1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. #2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option #3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts. #4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features. I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office. I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also. JohnnyO On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote: Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area. This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
The * box would provide the all the roll over services needed for actual POTS line that has no options via the local ILEC/CLEC. Then the other true VoIP lines in the * box could/would service all the outgoing calls. Example: Current VIP POTS line rings - the * box shuffles that call to a VoIP line also in the * box that is then answered and leaves the VIP POTS line open for other incoming calls. Its really not complicated, but is involved to get it all set up. All outgoing calls could be sent via the VoIP so that the VIP POTS line is never tied up. I tell ya again - if you need some help - call me Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac, you're right, but the local-dialing problem is the one Johnny's trying to solve, with NO CALL FORWARDING involved, which would incur him extra charges... The problem is this company's customers in the local area dialing them 9 - 12000 minutes / month, and if they're dialing a 337-774 number now, there's NO WAY you can get local numbers to that on PRIs or BRIs or T-1s - only POTS in Johnny's facility, which then incurs huge charges. The ONE option I suggested to Johnny was getting an 800#, and call forwarding the local 337-774 numbers to that 800#, but then that company would pay for the toll-free minutes No easy away around it at the moment, I'm afraid... Mac Dearman wrote: The fact that you may not be able to port that particular number shouldnt be a problem. I would never take 100% of the POTS lines out of any business any way. Roll that important number into the * box as an inbound line only and have it roll over the calls to the VoIP lines. It would never do anything but have inbound phone calls coming across it and could serve as a backup in case their WISP decided to take a vacation during the busy season and the wireless goes down. :) J'O - if you have wireless to all his locations now - - you could knock out those lohg distance charges to day by carrying his traffic across your network. Of course there would be a little ole small fee for that eh? :) Holler if we can help Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance the problem is, Johnny's in an area where his local C.O. isn't tapped by the major LNP-able VOIP or Voice guys. No one, and I've looked and spoken to many, has 337-774 portable... JohnnyO wrote: Ok - #1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. #2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option #3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts. #4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features. I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office. I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also. JohnnyO On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote: Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com http://www.superior1.com - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Mac Dearman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Cc:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: Mac Dearman Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - you can't provide it either Please let me know if you can...337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per monthJohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Cc: Judd's List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.Any suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
I've been personally delighted with two years of Lingo giving me unlimited USA/Canada/EUROPE calling on 7 lines each for $19.95/month and an unusually rich set of features (like e-mailing me compressed WAV files of all incoming voicemails, etc.). Now, that's retail w/box and support. I've taken the box on trips and routed it through my laptop Ethernet while the laptop is on a V.32 dialup and it works but sounds kind of like a cell phone but having my local number with me in Europe and having unlimited free calls throughout Europe from Europe or Eastern Europe for ZERO additional cost is kinda cool. It's SIP but they keep promising a soft phone for the line, like Vonaga, but haven't seen it yet. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Mac DearmanSent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:21 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: Mac Dearman Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - you can't provide it either Please let me know if you can...337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per monthJohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Cc: Judd's List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.Any suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area. This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: Mac Dearman Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - you can't provide it either Please let me know if you can... 337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Cc: Judd's List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less. I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical. Any suggestions would be appreciated. JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Ok - #1 - This customer has had the same phone # at this location for 20+ years - They do over 17million per year in volume out of this location. It's a fuel dock. They rely heavily on inbound calls for generating this. #2 - The customer will not change their phone # - This is NOT an option #3 - This company does a total of 90+ million / year in revenue and as their internet provider - I will not chance losing their accounts. #4 - I think it's absolutely stupid and a waste of time for them to have to dial 337-774- to be able to call the same number by dialing 774-. I know that this can be worked around with the dialing features. I have no issues with an asterisk solution - I have the equipment on-hand and am currently working with Butch Evans to get this setup. At this point in time - The only thing I can do is to bring in POTS lines to make this work so we can terminate their phone #s at our office. I am looking for an out of the box appliance that will do this as well. I have other clients wanting to come onboard for the hosted PBX aspects and VoIP advantages also. JohnnyO On Sun, 2006-03-05 at 00:07 -0600, Joe Laura wrote: Johnny, Im a little confused as to why you do not think this is doable. Send me the specific needs for the client and I think we can make this happen. You do have wireless to all of these clients right? BTW, What do you have against an Asterisk solution? Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: Mac Dearman Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - as I stated - None of these #s are local. Which means their office 7 miles away would have to dial long distance to get their location in the same 337-774 - FYI - we still have 7 digit dialing in our area. This is not just a matter of setting up VoIP - this customer has specific needs and I have to fill them. We're rolling out a beta for them at one of their small locations and if all goes well - I will be able to capture all of their locations - They employ 100+ people and currently have a total of 64 lines combined across all of their locations. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-03-04 at 19:20 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: The Hell you say I can't! Pick your towns and get the check book out - $50.00 per number and start talking!!! This includes unlimited long distance as well as local calls - - -with all the whistles and bells - bar none! 337 Crowley LA 337 De Ridder LA 337 Lafayette LA 337 Lawtell LA 337 Leesville LA 337 Lake Charles LA 337 New Iberia LA 337 Opelousas LA 337 St Martinville LA 337 Sulphur LA 337 Vinton LA 337 Youngsville LA Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: Mac Dearman Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance Mac - you can't provide it either Please let me know if you can... 337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.Authorized Barracuda ResellerMikroTik RouterOS Certifiedwww.inetsouth.comwww.mac-tel.uswww.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief)Rayville, La.318.728.8600 318.303.4228318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Cc: Judd's List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less.I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical.Any suggestions would be appreciated.JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance
Mac - you can't provide it either Please let me know if you can... 337-774 Let me know if you can provide local to me service - Also - will you sell me unlimited plans ? I'd be willing to pay $50.00/mo for unlimited useage. They only use about 9000-12000 LOCAL minutes per month JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-03-03 at 19:08 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Just send me a connection fee and I will take care of the rest of it :-) How many lines, whats the area code and how fast do you need them? With 911 of course. Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. Authorized Barracuda Reseller MikroTik RouterOS Certified www.inetsouth.com www.mac-tel.us www.RadioResponse.org (Katrina Relief) Rayville, La. 318.728.8600 318.303.4228 318.303.4229 - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Cc: Judd's List Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] VoIP/PBX Gateway appliance I am looking for a appliance/device that will work as a VoIP Gateway/PBX for 4-8 POTS lines. I am not looking for an Asterisk solution but seeking out a plug and play appliance for under $2k or less. I cannot get a PRI in my area - I cannot get a ISDN BRI in my area either - The only option I have is POTS lines which I can get for $23.00/mo each. I must have local services due to this being on a shipping channel and 911 is very critical. Any suggestions would be appreciated. JohnnyO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
