Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Jon Langeler
I'm sure most know that was a 'play' and basically secured Moto's position to sell WIMAX gear to the 2nd largest 2.5GHz spectrum holder. It would have been interesting if Alvarion had been in their place...not sure if you guys have that kind of change sitting around. Jon Langeler Michwave

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Carl A Jeptha
That is what we need right now. But we need even more to go forward and we need to know we can have it. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha David E. Smith wrote: Carl A Jeptha wrote: We

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Carl A Jeptha
We, upstream and ourselves, want the capability to use whoever we want (multihomed) for our connection. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Matt Liotta wrote: David E. Smith wrote: (ARIN

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Gino A. Villarini
I have always questioned why Motorola bought Nextnet, Nexnet it's a proprietary system with no upgrade path to Wimax... But my theory is based on them buying Nexnet to clear them out and offer Clearwire a Wimax upgrade path using the Wi4 Wimax plataform ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread David E. Smith
Carl A Jeptha wrote: We, upstream and ourselves, want the capability to use whoever we want (multihomed) for our connection. For you, that could be a problem. If you're only using 30 or so IP addresses, you probably won't be able to independently multihome. (Most Tier 1 ISPs won't accept or

[WISPA] Langberg: State tries its hand at telecom regulation

2006-09-25 Thread Dawn DiPietro
Langberg: State tries its hand at telecom regulation By Mike Langberg Mercury News Before you go any further, please get two toothpicks and prop open your eyes to keep from falling asleep. I'm going to talk about changes in state regulation of telecommunications, a topic that's usually a

Re: [WISPA] Earthlink

2006-09-25 Thread Joe Laura
Anyone tried the service in Anaheim yet? Must have missed this one. http://www.ajc.com/today/content/epaper/editions/today/business_442c67b8767e 406210c1.html New Orleans is supposed to be lit up in four weeks but I do not see any Tropos radios on the streets. Superior Wireless New Orleans,La.

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Matt Liotta
You will need to be able to justify at least a /24 to be multi-homed and you will need to be able to justify at least a /22 to get your own IPs. -Matt Carl A Jeptha wrote: We, upstream and ourselves, want the capability to use whoever we want (multihomed) for our connection. You have a Good

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
Gino, I have to admit Alvarion has some work to do for the smaller wisp's out there. Patrick will have his hands full on this one. But for wisps buying 100 packs on a bi or monthly plan the pricing below just doesn't seem like such a deal breaker anymore when you add up the feature sets. For a few

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Price is always a factor, but we would gladly pay a premium for VL with the sorely needed HARDWARE improvements: (1) Dual Polarity via software (2) Dual Band 5.3GHz and 5.8GHz These are time tested proven valuable HARDWARE features that VL is lacking. With these features added to VL there

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
From my understanding the business is up for grabs. Moto got a foot hold on current cell sites and deployments. It remains to be seen what happens to new cell/city rollouts. Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:00 AM

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
inline Brad Belton wrote: Price is always a factor, but we would gladly pay a premium for VL with the sorely needed HARDWARE improvements: (1) Dual Polarity via software (2) Dual Band 5.3GHz and 5.8GHz I know trango does dual polarity, but who does dual band? These are time tested

RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
Jon, When it's WiMAX they'll be using OFDM and their current older modulation techniques will be out the window...reliable pipes are being sold every day on BreezeAccess VL with and without voip. Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday,

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
Brad Belton, Respectfully, there are 100's of wisp's proving you wrong. OFDM in UL has its place and making blanket statements to the contrary makes little sense. There is great debate in the industry of what value Dual Polarity via software offers an OFDM UL system. There is also considerable

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Pete Davis
We actually did that for a while. It works out well, except that a contractor must provide his own tools and manage his own time. In other words, I cannot promise that he will be at Mr Smith's house at 2:00p on Wednesday. He has to be the one to schedule installs. It gets real fuzzy there.

Re: [WISPA] Langberg: State tries its hand at telecom regulation

2006-09-25 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Wow, instead of local monopolies, they now get to be state-wide monopolies... GReat idea... +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread John Scrivner
For the record, my use of Alvarion is to feed high-end business customers and towers only at this time. I still cannot make a business case for Alvarion for SoHo and Resi. I do not plan to make that move until I see Alvarion has a way to make that pay. A 24 to 36 month ROI does not work for

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Brad, I think you are missing the point of the thread here. The point is to offer up constructive criticism of the VL product and how end users feel it could be improved upon. Are you saying adding a RSSI reading, adding dual polarity and adding dual band ability would not further improve

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread John Scrivner
I think maybe this thread is getting unproductive. Let's either move on to other vendor specific issues that are new or move on to another thread. Scriv Brad Larson wrote: Brad Belton, Respectfully, there are 100's of wisp's proving you wrong. OFDM in UL has its place and making blanket

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Man, that must be nice! I've got residential customers that get all bent out of shape when their tests drop below one meg, either way. We have resi customers that get 3+ megs. BOTH ways. sigh. I'm in the wrong dang market out here! But what the heck, we also get recommended by many of

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
Patrick, At this point, our company has made the decision that the loss in performance is not worth the benefits I agree that a wider spectrum product has RF trade offs compared to designed for a narrower band, when done via a simplistic design, and I understand Alvarion's position not to

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
I was referring to On-the-Fly Dual Pol,Dual Freq, Dual Radio, Dual Ethernet. Or improved manufacturering methods,allowing lower costs of production. But you've answered that point in pastposts of this thread already. I guess all I was trying to say was, why not take the same pride that

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
Again, is the goal to get the best link, or the strongest signal? Although I get the arguement, that RSSI allows you the best alignment, I'd rather know the SNR, because it helps me determine where the noise is without having to do another time consuming step of testing for noise before

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Travis Johnson
Trango has dual polarity and dual band all in the same radio (5830SU). Granted these are not the $149 CPE, but rather $700. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: inline Brad Belton wrote: Price is always a factor, but we would gladly pay a premium for VL with the sorely needed

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
It took me a while to get this. But doing it by SNR actually is a big time saver during installtion. With alternate brands, we need to do several tests to determine if a radio is optimally aligned. Meaning alternate brands, judging by lights, only gave us a signal strength, but we still had

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
I agree with that statement. (except you made a typo, should be without dish). But isn't the Canopy CPE without a dish also useless? Canopy CPE and Trango CPE, I believe both have 8 dbi antennas, and the Trango Atlas CPE performs within spec of what a 8 dbi antenna is expected to deliver.

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Eric Muehleisen
Patrick Leary wrote: I have a very interesting new (this month) pdf about this topic that compares Canopy Advantage and BreezeACCESS VL in a variety of ways, from a coverage modeling example using high end propagation software to VoIP stats using company documents from both companies. We

Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
 Until, the IRS decides that they can not be considered a contractor, because they do not do work for other people, and are not solely in control of how a job gets done. To do it legal, its pretty important that installer's companybecomes Incorporated or LLC. Once they do that, its hard to

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Patrick Leary
Jon, Why is that the case? You really think GPS on Canopy is some cool feature? Canopy must have GPS to function. Without it, it kills itself. It is all to prevent self-inflicted interference (remember, Canopy does not even have ATPC) and to allow for channel re-use. Other systems, like VL, do

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Hello again Patrick, I see I failed to respond to a couple questions you had in the last paragraph of your post and wanted to respond now that I have a little time. By the way, training does not have to be $1,000 a head, as you know. We offer people to pay for the whole class than they can sell

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
I'm not missing the point at all. There is a debate and the findings aren't there yet whether OFDM and antenna polarity have a true benefit in outdoor UL PTMP systems and a 5.3/5.8 offering takes away from the current products spec's which is not a trade off were willing to do at this time. OK?

RE: [WISPA] Outsourced installations

2006-09-25 Thread Rick Smith
right – but I hand them the EQ, name and number and let them schedule their installs. They pay me $10 back if I hear from a customer that they didn’t make an appointment, and they credit me the install if I get a complaint serious enough from the customer.. J R From:

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
Brad, All good arguements. Its an issue of whether a WISP has the cash available upfront or not, to reap the long term savings of the investment. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brad Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Fixes Problems with Backhaul Links

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
Travis, That is a very good point. And one of the reasons that I'm trying so hard to stick with Trango. Using something else other than Trango for me, is almost like cheating on my wife. But there is a slight difference in modifying each of the two. Modifing a Trango unit, also may infringe

Re: [WISPA] Fw: NAF comments on NTIA converter box subsidy program

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
Excellent points Marlon. I support your view. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 To: FCC Discussion Cc: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:14 PM

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Rick Smith
channel planning. hah! as if everyone worked nicely together. I rather like Canopy with its GPS. It makes it a competition killer. :) And yes, even Alvarion EQ can't handle it... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent:

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Matt Liotta
Patrick Leary wrote: Why is that the case? You really think GPS on Canopy is some cool feature? Canopy must have GPS to function. Without it, it kills itself. It is all to prevent self-inflicted interference (remember, Canopy does not even have ATPC) and to allow for channel re-use. Other

RE: [WISPA] OT: Eric

2006-09-25 Thread Patrick Leary
Sure. Please send me offlist your direct e-mail Eric. My e-mail is [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Patrick Patrick, I would be very interested in obtaining this doc ...Eric This footnote confirms that this

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Patrick Leary
Overall, Motorola corporate has made excellent decisions and executed very well when it comes to this total space of wireless and I know every one of them. From the launch of Canopy to the latest buy of Symbol, for sure arguably the best end-to-end strategic decision making in the business. They

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Brad, Forgive me as I just now realized you are with Alvarion and not an end user. Refresh my memory; did we speak on the phone a few weeks ago regarding our initial VL deployment? If so, I want to publicly thank you for your time and expertise. Your input is/was valuable and I appreciate

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Patrick Leary
I'm speaking about multipoint matt, not ptp. The dedicated ptp you are doing is by far the exception. Canopy is designed, built, and sold to be primarily a pmp system. I've never met or heard of a Canopy pmp network of any scale that did not require GPS. If I am wrong, I am happy to eat crow.

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Tom DeReggi
I thought a /20 was the minimum allocation. Also not sure that it would be cost justified for IP blocks smaller than /19 all things considered. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA

Re: [WISPA] Fw: NAF comments on NTIA converter box subsidy program

2006-09-25 Thread Ron Wallace
I agree with Marlon and Tom - I support Marlon in this and will assist as you request. Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson Dt. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517)547-8410 Mobile: (517)605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Matt Liotta
Tom DeReggi wrote: I thought a /20 was the minimum allocation. Also not sure that it would be cost justified for IP blocks smaller than /19 all things considered. When it comes to IPs you can't cost justify it since you can't justify a larger block, but need the protection of not having to

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Larson
Comments inline: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 4:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] vendor specs Hello Brad, Forgive me as I just now realized you are with Alvarion and not an end user. Refresh my

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread Dylan Oliver
On 9/25/06, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought a /20 was the minimum allocation.Also not sure that it would be cost justified for IP blocks smaller than /19all things considered./22 IFF multi-homed. http://www.arin.net/registration/guidelines/ipv4_initial_alloc.html-- Dylan

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Brian, Sure it does. Trango M5830 is a dual polarity and dual band product. It can operate in the 5.8GHz or 5.3GHz bands in either horizontal or vertical polarity on the fly all via software commands. The M5830 has been a solid workhorse for years for us. The only drawback to the

Re: [WISPA] ARIN IP Application

2006-09-25 Thread David E. Smith
On Mon, September 25, 2006 1:30 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: I thought a /20 was the minimum allocation. Also not sure that it would be cost justified for IP blocks smaller than /19 all things considered. From the ARIN NRPM (abridged): You can't multihome unless you have at least a /24, but ARIN

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Patrick Leary
For sure I am no expert there. Plenty of skilled Canopy users here and I believe to a WISP here each one that is scaled uses the GPS sync. I leave it to them to chime in. Some already have, like Jon L., Rick S., Gino, Mike B. I just know we get no requests for it from VL users an there would be

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Gino A. Villarini
C'mon Patrick .. GPS is not a must on Canopy, I have half of my pops without it ... I don't really like when people make statements like this, you sound like you have years of hands on Canopy experience... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Scriv, Sorry to bore you...certainly not our intent. You last attempt to end the thread was met with others posting not Brad or me. Regardless, I agree we're done with it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John

RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr
Well, so far as we can tell the only thing that can kill canopy, IS CANOPY. We have put it up against WaveRider, Alvarion, and 802.11b. They all fell of the face of the earth. We have 16 tower sites deployed, all 900Mhz and 2.4, over 1000 CPE and more on the way. (I realize there are many people

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs

2006-09-25 Thread John Scrivner
Please forgive my outburst of rude, brash behavior here. I had a bad day and I should know better than to type while I am mad! Scriv John Scrivner wrote: Brad and Brad. You guys are getting boringsaying the same drivel over and over. PLEASE either take your broken record off line or say

[WISPA] Source for satellite masts

2006-09-25 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
Hello all, I'm looking for a good source for satellite arms (j-poles) for mounting CPE units. It seems that I can always pick some up locally or from some different places, but I have not had any luck lately and I have a couple of consulting customers who are looking for large quantities.

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Travis Johnson
Hi, First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI. What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, causing self-interference, correct? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Answers

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Jon Langeler
The timing or range is a configurable setting in canopy, you set them at 20 miles and the AP's as far as 20 miles and under will all be in sync. If you have 2 AP past 20 miles but LOS to each other, you can calulate to see if the RSSI on the AP's is close to the reciever sensitivity(or noise

[WISPA] When it comes to animal caused outages...

2006-09-25 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists
this one takes the cake... http://www.dslreports.com/speak/slideshow/16975148?c=1067559ret=L2ZvcnVtL3JlbWFyaywxNjk3NTE0OA%3D%3D wow! Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:

RE: [WISPA] Source for satellite masts

2006-09-25 Thread Todd Barber
Matt, http://www.allelectronics.com Todd Barber Skylink Broadband Internet [EMAIL PROTECTED] 970-454-9499 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL

Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon

2006-09-25 Thread Jon Langeler
Hey Patrick, GPS...there's many reasons and it's not a canopy vs alvarion debate from my standpoint, more so a scheduled mac(canopy, wimax, 3G...) vs unscheduled(wifi, VL, currently Trango). I'd predict that as wisp education progresses, they will realize the power of scheduled mac and GPS