Brilliantly put Janice!
Bob
- Original Message -
From: "Janice Schwarz"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
There are still many people that have not used the Internet. Or barely
use it. No
2011 6:32 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
On 12/29/2011 01:02 PM, coder wrote:
> I had an awful job getting her to understand what [a browser was],
> but eventually she explained : "I use my e". This was subsequently
On 29/12/11 18:02, coder wrote:
Most people don't even know what a back button is!
Apparently most people do:
"The Back button is the lifeline of the Web user and the second-most
used navigation feature (after following hypertext links)."
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990530.html
Though I
On 29/12/11 17:53, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
Why should *web apps* be unconditionally constrained from the same
context-driven behavior?
You ask an interesting question: are we talking about web apps or web
sites? Does the answer make a difference? Can a user tell the difference?
Rob
**
On 12/29/11 11:31 AM, Tom Ditmars wrote:
I would dare to venture that the world has reached a point where knowing
about things like "tabs" or "right-clicking" should be expected. The
World Wide Web has existed for nearly 20 years.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings... :-)
http://www.you
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Tom Ditmars wrote:
> On 12/29/2011 01:02 PM, coder wrote:
>> I had an awful job getting her to understand what [a browser was],
>> but eventually she explained : "I use my e". This was subsequently
>> clarified by the explanation that she meant the small blue thing
On 12/29/2011 01:02 PM, coder wrote:
> I had an awful job getting her to understand what [a browser was],
> but eventually she explained : "I use my e". This was subsequently
> clarified by the explanation that she meant the small blue thing at
> the bottom of the screen. Let me add that this lady
On 29/12/2011 18:02, coder wrote:
I don't say having windows all over the place is something great per se,
but I do say that for most applications on a PC it is a very
tidy and very convenient way of handling masses of data which is related
(like my analogy of a web page in Dreamweaver or similar
- Original Message -
From: "Patrick H. Lauke"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Can I just turn this around? To those on this discussion so adamant that
popping up a new window is a
On 12/29/11 8:55 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
FWIW Apple do provide guidance for how windows in OS X are supposed to work:
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Windows/Windows.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/2961-TPXREF21
Not sure S
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
> On 12/28/11 8:08 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
[snip]
>> Since they aren't navigating hypermedia, I'm not sure that's
>> comparable. But typically you have a fine degree of user control of
>> the opening of new windows in such program
On 12/28/11 8:08 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM, coder wrote:
SO you mean that mr Dreamweaver programmer, or Mr outlook, etc etc . . .
shouldn't do it either?
Since they aren't navigating hypermedia, I'm not sure that's
comparable. But typically you have a f
What I'm still not getting from this whole discussion is: it seems that
throughout the thread those of us opposed to launching new windows/tabs
have had to justify why we're opposed to them.
Can I just turn this around? To those on this discussion so adamant that
popping up a new window is a g
On 28/12/11 7:39 PM, coder wrote:
So, why do
some folk think that's OK, but if you are using a browser it's awful?
I think it comes down to predictability.
The various programs mentioned open new windows in a predictable pattern
- one knows when a new window will open.
Websites open windows no
This subject and me have some history so please excuse me if I get a
little ranty. I’ll do my level best to be rational and on topic. Here
goes…
To my mind this comes down to a very simple question: What will the
user of the website (or piece of software) you are building expect to
happen when the
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM, coder wrote:
> SO you mean that mr Dreamweaver programmer, or Mr outlook, etc etc . . .
> shouldn't do it either?
Since they aren't navigating hypermedia, I'm not sure that's
comparable. But typically you have a fine degree of user control of
the opening of new w
SO you mean that mr Dreamweaver programmer, or Mr outlook, etc etc . . .
shouldn't do it either?
Bob :-)
- Original Message -
From: "Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external we
On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:39 AM, coder wrote:
> What fascinates me (still) is that a PC (laptop, whatever) works by
> displaying many windows. Hell fire, the OS is called 'windows' . . . (unless
> you are a fruit fan). All the common programs employ 'several' windows to
> make their functionality
What fascinates me (still) is that a PC (laptop, whatever) works by
displaying many windows. Hell fire, the OS is called 'windows' . . . (unless
you are a fruit fan). All the common programs employ 'several' windows to
make their functionality easier to handle (just look at Dreamweaver or any
o
On 12/27/11 11:26 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
Help and confirmation pop-ups are very much special cases.
Heh, it's always about the "special cases" :-)
What is a continuation of the content, though? I wonder if the crux
of the argument here is that some of us (maybe the longer-serving
webmasters?) th
Hassan Schroeder
> On 12/23/11 11:12 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
> > No - it switches on a second browser viewport, either above or below
> > the first one.
>
> ? "above or below"? Not sure we're talking about the same thing.
> Or at least I wouldn't describe it in those terms.
Ah, now, what had happened
On 12/23/11 11:12 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
Not only crazy, but the Worst Analogy EVAR :-)
Rubbish - I've done far worse before.
I sit corrected - your powers are te awesum :-)
Opening a new tab does nothing like "switch on a second computer".
No - it switches on a second browser viewport, eithe
Hassan Schroeder
> On 12/22/11 4:06 PM, m...@phonecoop.coop wrote:
> > Hassan Schroeder
> >> Regardless -- for the vocal objectors, do the same objections apply
> >> to opening a new tab?
> >
> > Pretty much. That's just a smaller version of the same problem.
> >
> > Think of it this way: when you
On 12/22/11 4:06 PM, m...@phonecoop.coop wrote:
Hassan Schroeder
Regardless -- for the vocal objectors, do the same objections apply
to opening a new tab?
Pretty much. That's just a smaller version of the same problem.
Think of it this way: when you change channel on the tv, you
expect it to
On 20 December 2011 13:09, Alex Mironov
wrote:
[snip]
> I was wondering if anyone had any views/resources as to whether users should
> remain in the same window or should be taken to a new window/tab when they
> click on an external link?
Short answer: don't open new windows/tabs (unless you ha
Hassan Schroeder
> Regardless -- for the vocal objectors, do the same objections apply
> to opening a new tab?
Pretty much. That's just a smaller version of the same problem.
Think of it this way: when you change channel on the tv, you
expect it to change channel, not switch on a second tv to th
On 2011/12/21 12:16 (GMT) coder composed:
In my
experience, most folk 'out there' don't know about right clicking. To say
'it is the user's choice' is mainly untrue, because he/she doesn't know
they've got a choice
The same situation exists here as with text size control. Just because a user
On 2011/12/21 18:44 (GMT) coder composed:
I have used this CSS :
a[rel="external"] {
padding-right: 13px;
background: url(outofit.gif) no-repeat right top;
}
With this code:
THIS is a link to a new window
or, for html5:
THIS is a link to
a new window
I have also used
On 21/12/2011 19:44, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
On 12/19/11 6:09 PM, Alex Mironov wrote:
Muchof my research suggests that the recommended practice is to
> keep people within the same window/tab except in some instances.
Most of the responses to this seem to focus on the evils of opening
a new *
On 12/19/11 6:09 PM, Alex Mironov wrote:
Muchof my research suggests that the recommended practice is to
> keep people within the same window/tab except in some instances.
Most of the responses to this seem to focus on the evils of opening
a new *window*.
I'm under the impression that Webkit
No-one has
complained (Though Felix might, now . . .)
Bob
- Original Message -
From: "David Hucklesby"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Excellent points. If your reason for wanting to
On 12/21/11 9:35 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
On 21/12/2011 17:14, David Hucklesby wrote:
Excellent points. If your reason for wanting to open a new window or tab
is to be helpful, I suggest telling your visitors about the right-click
option right there on your web page.
Ah, but then do you als
Please remove me from the WSG mail-serv. I am no longer in the Website
business. Thank you for your support in the past.
God Bless,
Keith Steinacher
Chief Bottle-Washer
On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Patrick H. Lauke
wrote:
> On 21/12/2011 17:14, David Hucklesby wrote:
>>
>> Excellent poi
On 21/12/2011 17:14, David Hucklesby wrote:
Excellent points. If your reason for wanting to open a new window or tab
is to be helpful, I suggest telling your visitors about the right-click
option right there on your web page.
Ah, but then do you also need explain about tap-and-hold context menu
On 12/21/11 5:04 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
On 21/12/2011 12:16, coder wrote:
In one sense, this argument is fallacious, because whatever the
web designer does decides what happens when a user just 'clicks a
link'. In my experience, most folk 'out there' don't know about
right clicking. To say
On 21/12/2011 12:16, coder wrote:
In one sense, this argument is fallacious, because whatever the web
designer does decides what happens when a user just 'clicks a link'. In
my experience, most folk 'out there' don't know about right clicking. To
say 'it is the user's choice' is mainly untrue, be
inly untrue, because he/she doesn't know
they've got a choice, and what happens depends upon what the designer has
coded.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: "Rob Crowther"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to
Janice Schwarz
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:42 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure there is no such standard preventing mobile phones
> > from opening new windows because my aging nokia e90 can do it (since
> > one of the early upgrades - move to the link, left shoulder button,
> > "Open in New
On 20/12/2011 23:44, Chris Price wrote:
One advantage I can see in
opening a new window (on a larger screen at least) is you can dismiss
the page by closing that window rather than feeling you are being taken
somewhere you don't want to go. Is this context sensitive?
Yes it is context sensitive,
I followed your useit link and the article was so good I wanted to share it
via Linkedin and Twitter. I ended up having several windows opening, I had
little idea what was going on and often didn't know why I had arrived where
I had. Since then I've found 2 floating open windows and am still not su
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:42 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
>
> Janice Schwarz
> > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:57 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
> [devices that can't open new windows]
> > > Such devices are buggy and should be repaired, then. Don't degrade
> > > the web for everyone else because a few devices are buggy.
Janice Schwarz
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:57 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
[devices that can't open new windows]
> > Such devices are buggy and should be repaired, then. Don't degrade
> > the web for everyone else because a few devices are buggy.
>
> To my knowledge, that's standard on mobile phones. It's
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:57 AM, MJ Ray wrote:
>
> Grant Bailey
> > If the link is to an external site then personally, I prefer the link to
> > open in a new window automatically. Also, not all devices make it easy
> > for users to open a link in a new window on request.
>
> Such devices are bug
Grant Bailey
> If the link is to an external site then personally, I prefer the link to
> open in a new window automatically. Also, not all devices make it easy
> for users to open a link in a new window on request.
Such devices are buggy and should be repaired, then. Don't degrade
the web for
As a matter of policy, all links on w3.org open in the same window. The
reasons for this are, as some have already alluded to:
- the user remains in control and can choose to open in a new tab/window
or not;
- mobile devices, even where they support multiple windows, don't
display the tabs a
Of course that will break everyone with a device that limits the number of
browser instances, as your device will probably expunge instances that
haven't been used recently - which is rather a pity as I like to keep
instances open so that I can go back to them. If I really wanted to
expunge an old
On 2011/12/20 15:42 (GMT+1100) Grant Bailey composed:
If the link is to an external site then personally, I prefer the link to
open in a new window automatically. Also, not all devices make it easy
for users to open a link in a new window on request.
I detest pages that think it's their busine
Alex,
If the link is to an external site then personally, I prefer the link to
open in a new window automatically. Also, not all devices make it easy
for users to open a link in a new window on request.
Regards,
Grant Bailey
On 20/12/2011 1:09 PM, Alex Mironov wrote:
Hi
I have been doing som
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