RE: [WSG] Frustrated!

[Nick Brown]

Marvin - I thought we'd all agreed that this  wasn't the place for these
sorts of questions.

N

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: 31 January 2012 00:22
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Frustrated!

hi.
for some stupid reason.
i am using wamp server 2.2, and i launch wamp server, then click the left
mouse button.
using jaws for windows 13.
and then arrow down to local host.
it hangs with firefox for like three minutes.
and then i try to exit then open up wamp server again.
then try to launch wamp server.
the page does not come up.
either it just hangs there or i get an error message saying the site could
not be reached.
please help me out.
how do i change browsers for wamp server, to see if it is the firefox is
having the problem.
had this problem the other day.
any ideas.
Marvin.

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RE: [WSG] Stack over flow with jaws

[Nick Brown]

Sorry to hear that Marvin - usually I just search on my query and that sorts
out the relevant tags etc.

Given that there is a clear need for this, perhaps you could help others in
this situation by publishing your results on your site.

Best of luck in your search.

N

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: 15 December 2011 04:18
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Stack over flow with jaws

Hi.
well.
tried this site.
not very screen reader friendly.
heaps of clickable scroll bars, and had a lot of trouble finding the forum,
to ask the questions, so went to the sister site, and was able to ask the
question.
and then had to use web visum, to do the are you a human thing.
and just checked, my question was not answered.
so, is there a more screen reader friendly, php group, maybe like a yahoo
groups, mailling list, etc.
and maybe some one can help me with a php error i have.
any aussies on this mailling list, who can point me to a mailling list or
group, yahoo, google groups, for php.
sorry.
just frustrated.
looked at the php manual, how to input a e-mail form, in the php script, to,
subject, message, then put the variables, and not liking one line for some
reason.
any help.
Marvin.


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RE: [WSG] Database Success

[Nick Brown]

Hey Marvin - I'm not convinced this is the best forum for you to be posting
these sorts of queries - why don't you try Stack Overflow - I've never found
a better site for answering technical questions.

N

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Marvin Hunkin
Sent: 12 December 2011 08:16
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Database Success

hi.
well.
how do i reset the password.
and how to do it in the my sql command line.
possibly my database could be screwed up or some thing.
did get it to work.
and now.

and just looked in the database script nad it added my name and my phone
number.
several times.
so how to delete the number of times, so i only have my name once.
so it is working.
in another script, and another folder.
so it is working.
Marvin.
ps: sorry for bothering you guys.
so how to remove multiple entries in my database.
or just copy it over from the other folder.
which has the default.
then try running the script.
then i get the access denied.
but when i look in the other php scrip, in a folder called FourthPHP, it
added the record to the database.
it is working.
minus, the date.
and in the database, not showing the date.
so my learning purposes, it is working.
Marvin.Marvin.


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RE: [WSG] Matthew J Robinson is out of the office.

[Nick Brown]

I can confirm that I have deleted all my copies of this email as well.

N

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Andrew Boyd
Sent: 31 October 2011 23:19
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Matthew J Robinson is out of the office.

Matthew,

reporting that I may have received this email in error, and confirming that
I will delete it. I'm not sure that I have made any copies, but this is a
gmail account, and you never know what those google guys are up to, really.

Hope you're enjoying going tropo (troppo?).

Best regards, Andrew

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:09 AM,   wrote:
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Re: [WSG] Google Les Paul tribute

[Nick Brown]

 The sound is done using Flash (there's no  tag).  

 Anyone else appreciate the irony (and I know this isn't the first time by
a long way !) how much Google espouses open technologies and then always
obfuscates their code ;-)

 N

 Nick Brown | Director | Boss Level | http://www.bosslevelgames.com [1] 
 +44 (0) 752 881 0476 | n...@bosslevelgames.com

 On Thu 09/06/11 13:41 , Chris Harris  wrote:

 HTML5, easy to do

 Kind Regards,
 Chris HarrisCEO | Founder | producerjuicemediach...@juicemedia.com.au T.
612 99044022M. 61 413 108870
 www.juicemedia.com.au [2]

 On Jun 9, 2011, at 9:16 PM, Jason Grant  wrote:

 HTML, CSS and JavaScript of course. 

 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Grant Bailey  wrote:
 Hello,

 Today's Google home page has an interactive guitar in honour of Les Paul.
It makes sounds when you 'strum' the strings.

 I was wondering what technologies Google used to create this incredible
element. It does not appear to be Flash ... does anyone know.

 Thank you and kind regards,

 Grant Bailey

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 Jason Grant BSc [Hons], MSc [Hons]
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  [7]www.flexewebs.com [8] 
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 +44 (0)7748 591 770

  [9]www.flexewebs.com/semantix [10]
  [11]www.twitter.com/flexewebs [12] 
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Links:
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[11] http://www.twitter.com/flexewebs
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Re: [WSG] Desktop. Tablet. Mobile.

[Leon, Nick]

I really like how the HTML/CSS allows the nav and article to display on top of 
each other, or side-by-side, depending on the viewport width. This scalable, 
progressive approach is well designed and accommodates many device sizes.

On May 6, 2011, at 12:09 AM, David Laakso wrote:

First-pass. Comments and suggestions appreciated.

This end...
Desktop: OS X 10.4
Tablet: No got.
Mobile: OperaMini os SanyoMirro 4 BoostMobile.

uri: <http://chelseacreekstudio.com/m/><http://chelseacreekstudio.com/m/>

Thanks.
Best,
~d

--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/

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Thanks,

Nick Leon
Production Services Consultant, Mobile


[cid:07969554-47BA-4D8E-B7AA-35173638957C@kendall.corp.akamai.com]


Akamai Technologies
8 Cambridge Center
Cambridge, MA 02142

Phone: 617.444.3035



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<>

RE: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest

[Nick Brown]

Seconded.

N

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Nicholas Bower
Sent: 19 December 2010 07:20
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest

Hi Mods can you possibly drop emails from list and digest with subject
containing "out of office" or "autoreply"??  20-50% (at times) of
emails I get from this list are a digest wholly consisting of ringing
out of office responses.  Pretty standard list filter to apply.

And for the people doing this many thanks for the escalation points
perhaps I'll try one over the break. :)

On 19/12/2010, at 12:58 AM, "wsg@webstandardsgroup.org"
 wrote:

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> From: "Ruth, Jodie" 
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:49:37 +1100
> Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
>
> I am out of the office from Friday December 17 2010, returning Tuesday
Janua
> ry 4, 2011. Please direct any web-related questions to
web.helpd...@environm
> ent.gov.au or phone x9883), or Intranet to
intranet.helpd...@environment.gov
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> Kind regards,
> Jodie Ruth
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> From: "Laurence-Rogers, Ben" 
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:51:25 +1100
> Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
>
> Holidays! I will be out of the office till the 5th of Jan - if you need to
c
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> From: "Julien Viard" 
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:52:23 -0800
> Subject: Out of Office Re: WSG Digest
>
> The 10collective crew are currently out celebrating well earned xmas
> fun and we will not be back in the office until Monday 20th Dec at
> 9:00
>
> We will respond to all queries when we return.
>
> Merry Christmas
> Julien
>
> *
> From: "Edo Kamal" 
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:53:00 +1100
> Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
>
> I am currently out of office. I will be back in the office tomorrow on
Mond
> ay, 20 December 2010.
>
> For enquiries please contact:
> Papinder Hamid (x77756)
> p:  +61 2 8237 7756
> e: papinder.ha...@macquarie.com
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> *
> From: tee 
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 03:20:27 -0800
> Subject: disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet
>
> I am finally to begin to stop supporting IE6 starts from 2011 as the
> usage has fallen below 5%. I don't want the IE6 users to see a broken
> page due to no special treatment made for the browser, rather, I would
> like them to see an un-styled page as if the style sheet has switch off.
>
>
> Can this be done?
>
> Thanks!
>
> tee
>
> *
> From: Russ Weakley 
> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 22:53:33 +1100
> Subject

Re: [WSG] CSS "rollovers" for images + Feedback Sources??

[Nick Stone]

 Leslie,

This is such valuable feedback.

Thanks very much!

Does anyone have suggestions on how to obtain website usability feedback 
from various members of the disabled community?


Thanks in advance,
Nick

--
Nick Stone, MBA
SEO, Web Accessibility, Web Development
http://nick-stone.com/




Good idea, but please remember that for someone with problems of 
co-ordination or fine muscle control, hovering can be extremely 
difficult.  I've encountered javascript image galleries which work like 
this, and on a bad day I find them completely unusable.


Lesley

On 19/10/10 21:13, cat soul wrote:

Any thoughts on using CSS hover properties to show larger images?

The scenario I'm envisioning is one where you'd have small thumbnails of
samples, and hovering the mouse over them would invoke a hover state in
which a larger version of that same image would appear..."Larger"
meaning 400x600 pixels, or in that neighborhood.

Is this not wise from a coding perspective? How about usability? Do web
page visitors not expect this kind of behavior..would it be confusing to
them as to what they're supposed to do, or what to expect?

I'm wanting to use CSS to do what javascript rollovers do, only without
the javascript.


thanks for any feedback or opinions.

cs




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Re: [WSG] IE ignores MIME type

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 12 Apr 2010, at 06:53:46, David Hucklesby wrote:

> This is a demo I made for him. The "view source" is named with a ".txt"
> suffix, and sent as Content Type text/plain. But Internet Explorer,
> alone among my browsers, insists on displaying the two files containing
> HTML as if they were text/html.

This MSDN article 
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms775147(VS.85).aspx> explains how 
Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, chose to break the web because they know 
so much better than those who wrote the RFCs. Basically, they chose to assume 
that "text/plain" was probably wrong in most cases (which might have been a 
real problem around 1997, but not one they should have taken it upon themselves 
to "fix" in this way), and instead examine the content to see if it might be 
something else. As in this case it looks like HTML, IE ignores the server and 
treats it as HTML.

This post on the IE blog 
<http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/02/01/364581.aspx> explains that, when 
they tried to fix things in XP SP2, they found that the damage they had caused 
was so widespread that they had to abandon the fix (despite the fact that this 
content sniffing can be a serious security issue). They offer no useful 
solution.

This article on the subject from Google 
<http://code.google.com/p/doctype/wiki/ArticleContentSniffing> has little to 
suggest either.

Sorry I can't help, but with that information perhaps somebody can come up with 
a workaround.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] How to resolve z-index problem for select box in IE 6

[Nick Cowie]

Ditto what Michael and Matthew said, it is not a z-index issue, but an
IE6 rendering issue

> Google for something like "ie6 select iframe"

> Google "iframe shim" and you'll find many variations of the same answer.

-- 
Nick


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Re: [WSG] CSS off button

[Nick Stone]

Alan & Kevin,

I believe the State of Virginia's requirement targets accessibility. A 
server-side script would provide the most accessible solution.


If accessibility is not a consideration, a JavaScript style switcher 
would suffice.


Cheers,
Nick Stone

Alan C. Whiteman wrote:

This sounds like a job for  and Javascript.



Alan C. Whiteman
Visualis Web Design
http://visualis.us
(562) 305-2862

On Saturday 23 January 2010 16:02:39 you wrote:
  

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From: "Erickson, Kevin (DOE)" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:22:31 -0500
Subject: CSS off button

Hello fellow WSG'ers.

Could anyone please tell me if there is a right way to put a clickable
button in a web page that will turn off all CSS?

Thanks,
Kevin


*
From: Paul Novitski 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:44:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS off button

At 1/22/2010 12:22 PM, Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:


Could anyone please tell me if there is a right way to put a
clickable button in a web page that will turn off all CSS?
  

To be perhaps overly precise, I'm guessing that you probably don't
want to turn off *all* styling because that would render your
document as one long string of undifferentiated text, but instead you
want to keep the browser's default styling and/or the user's custom
styling and suppress the page author's additional styling.

The approach would most likely be to strip out the style elements
from the html head and the style attributes from all elements on the
page. I think it would be unreasonable to ask a program to also
suppress styling imposed by client-side scripting but if you were
being paid enough this would be doable.

The best practice way to do this would be, first of all, to provide a
submit button or link that asked a server-side script to re-deliver
the current page with style elements and attributes removed. Then you
could add a JavaScript layer that intercepted the button click and
stripped away styling on the fly. I don't think removing the style
elements in the head after a page is rendered has the desired effect,
so you'd probably have to delete all the children of the style object
in addition to deleting the style attributes on the page.

Depending on your purpose, you'd also want to decide whether to strip
other presentational elements and attributes at the same time.

Regards,

Paul
__

Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com


*
From: Nick Stone 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:51:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS off button

Kevin,

I believe you could do it with PHP by having your "Off" button reload
the page, replacing your default header with one that omits your CSS
file(s).  You could use a cookie to make the other pages also load
without CSS until the switch is toggled again.





  




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Re: [WSG] CSS off button

[Nick Stone]

Kevin,

I believe you could do it with PHP by having your "Off" button reload 
the page, replacing your default header with one that omits your CSS 
file(s).  You could use a cookie to make the other pages also load 
without CSS until the switch is toggled again.


--
Nick Stone, MBA
SEO & Web Accessibility || coding, writing & consulting
boa...@nick-stone.com
http://nick-stone.com/
434-284-2840



Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote:

Hello fellow WSG'ers.
 
Could anyone please tell me if there is a right way to put a clickable 
button in a web page that will turn off all CSS?




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Re: [WSG] AAA Accessibility and validation

[Nick Stone]

Christian,

You said you've been told to place IE specific rules in a separate 
sheet, but you don't mention why you haven't done so. 


In the example you provided, I'd do this:
1) move "zoom: 1" to your IE6 rule (and to IE7 rule if necessary)
2) place the IE6 and IE7 rules in an IE ONLY sheet 
3) use a conditional comment to call the IE sheet


Would that work?  If so, please explain your reasons for not doing so.

Here are the pros and cons I'm aware of.  I'd be interested to hear others.
Pros
A) enables CSS validation
B) avoids possible failure of automated accessibility test
C) facilitates site maintenance (easy to find and modify IE specific rules)

Con
A) Delays initial page load by requiring additional call to the server


Aloha,
Nick Stone

--
Nick Stone, MBA
SEO & Web Accessibility || coding, writing & consulting
boa...@nick-stone.com
http://nick-stone.com/
434-284-2840



c...@fagandesign.com.au wrote:



> From: 
> I guess my question is: Do IE-related CSS hacks cause a document to
> fail AAA (or A/AA for that matter) Accessibility compliance?
> 
>
> Hi Christian,
>
> If you mean things like zoom or even proprietary -Moz or -KHTML
> properties... no, that doesn't affect accessibility. Guidelines are
> subjective in that it's up to the site's owner to say whether or not
> his site is accessible after testing it against the various guidelines.
> The W3 validator is the issue. It should have been programmed years ago
> to ignore most, if not all, proprietary properties.
>
> --
> Al Sparber - PVII
> http://www.projectseven.com
> Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
> http://www.projectseven.com/go/hgm
> The Ultimate Web 2.0 Carousel

Specifically, I mean something like this

.element {float:left;display:inline;zoom:1;margin-right:30px;}
 * html .element {float:none;} /* IE6 */
 *+ html .element {float:right;} /* IE7 */

I've been told to put these IE specific attributes in a seperate IE 
stylesheet in order to avoid validation errors that supposedly affect 
the AAA Acessibility check.



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Re: [WSG] 8 invites for Google Wave [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Nick Stone]

Already got one... Thanks!

Andrew A. Savelyev wrote:

I got 18. Please let me know, if you need one.

Best,
Andrew A. Savelyev


From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On 
Behalf Of Krishna Huliyar
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 1:37 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] 8 invites for Google Wave [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

I got 14. please let me know, if you need one.

Cheers,
Krishna
2009/12/4 Juarez P. A. Filho 
Just to let you know I have 12 invites :)


Best Regards,
Juarez P. A. Filho
Web Addict/Consultant
http://juarezpaf.com | http://twitter.com/juarezpaf 



"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." 
Eleanor Roosevelt




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--
Nick Stone, MBA
SEO & Web Accessibility || coding, writing & consulting
boa...@nick-stone.com
http://nick-stone.com/
434-284-2840




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Re: [WSG] web style guide

[Nick Cowie]

And a couple more links:
http://www.pebbleroad.com/articles/view/Creating-Maintaining-a-Web-Style-Guide/
http://delicious.com/maish/styleguide

2009/12/3 kris wright :
> Hi Lucien,
>
> I don't have any style guides of my own to share, but I have two links you
> may want to review:
>
> A List Apart: Writing an interface style guide
> (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/writingainterfacestyleguide/)
> Government of Canada's Common Look and Feel for the Internet
> (http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp)
>
> Kris
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:59 PM, nedlud  wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>> I need to write a web style guide for our web site. Does anyone know of
>> any good examples I could draw inspiration from?
>> We already have our style sheets etc working, but need to have some kind
>> of documentation we can hand to third party or contract developers so
they
>> can work to our standards.
>> Thanks,
>> Lucien.
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Re: [WSG] Select Padding in IE

[Nick Cowie]

>
> Can anyone tell me how to fix this?
>
> Don't use padding  ;-)

You need to put a wrapper div around it and play with conditional comments.

IE has "fixed" some values for form elements and you can not change them, I
know that IE6  had "fixed" values for padding and some others for attributes
of the button element.  (this was while investigating a solution to "fixed"
values in Safari on OsX for input type submit)


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[Spam] :Re: [WSG] Is page-break-before broken in Webkit?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/10/14 David Hucklesby :
> James Ducker wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> As a test, try using that style on an element that isn't floated or inside
>> a floated element.
>>
>
> That was worth a try - I added a "break-after" to the preceding
> paragraph, but Safari 4 seems intent on ignoring my wishes.
> (I double-checked in other browsers - either place works fine.)
> Thanks for the idea...
>

It looks like there are long-standing issues with WebKit's
page-break-* handling:
<https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5097>
<https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9526>

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts

[Nick Stone]

Russ,

Outstanding resource...Thank you!

Nick Stone
http://www.nick-stone.com/


designer wrote:
I would go so far as to say that these links have given me more 
knowledge than any other source of information I've encountered.  I'm 
indebted to Russ!
 
Bob

Gwelanmor Internet
 


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Re: [WSG] An Acceptable Dropdown

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/8/23 Bushidodeep :
> All debates aside on drop-down menus, they're called
> for, demanded by some. I like this one<http://www.csun.edu/>,
> and wondered if anyone has a tutorial URL bookmarked?
>

WAI-ARIA has a number of menu-related roles and properties [1]. Newer
browsers, including IE 8, offer reasonably good levels of support, as
do newer versions of some assistive technologies.

There's a good video by Todd Kloots of the YUI team demonstrating the
use of ARIA to enhance accessibility of a drop-down menu: I'll link to
the copy on Eric Miraglia's blog [2], as that includes a transcript.

[1] <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/#menu>
[2] <http://ericmiraglia.com/blog/?p=132>

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] The of the document

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/7/23 Paul Collins :
>
> - Good search engine rankings
> - Best charset for English text (utf-8, right?)
> - Do we need robots - all anymore?
> - Any Accessibility issues? (Can't think of any)
> - Does anyone bother with descriptions, keywords anymore?
> - Dublin Core metadata, is that a forgotten fad?!
>

Google pays attention to meta description: see their SEO Starter
Guide, a PDF linked from
<http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/11/googles-seo-starter-guide.html>.

-- 
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: Re: [WSG] Form question

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/7/15 Mathew Robertson :
>
> Another related question to ask... Why is putting a hidden input field, as 
> the first child of a form element, disallowed?
>

The HTML 4.01 DTD specifies that only block-level elements or script
elements may appear as the immediate children of the FORM element;
input elements are inline:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.3>

As to _why_ this is the case, I'm really not sure :-)

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] Form question

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/7/15  :
> Can anyone tell me why the HTML specification does not restrict form
> elements from appearing outside of the form tag?
>

HTML 4.01 section 17.2.1: "The elements used to create controls
generally appear inside a FORM element, but may also appear outside of
a FORM element declaration when they are used to build user
interfaces."

<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.2.1>

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] utf8 character display problem

[Nick Roper]

Many thanks Andrew

Nick

Andrew Cunningham wrote:
Richard Ishida's i18n checker is a useful tool for this type of case. 
Available at



http://rishida.net/tools/i18nchecker/index.php



Rimantas Liubertas wrote:


Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays 
OK on
our development server, but when transferring the files to the live 
server

we get garbled output.


<…>
 
However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last 
menu

item incorrectly:

http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then
uploaded to each server.

Any ideas ?



There are headers sent by your live server:
Connection:close
Content-Length:862
Content-Type:text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Date:Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:22:43 GMT
Server:Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By:PHP/5.1.6

Take a look at Content-Type header: it specifies charset as 
iso-8859-1. Charset

specified in HTTP has preference over charset in META. If you have
access to your
server configuration look for AddDefaultCharset directive in Apache
config. You can either
change it to UTF or comment it out.

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: nro...@logical.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)1749 676798
mobile: +44 (0)7590 538686
web: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34, Chamberlain St, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ, UK
---

IMPORTANT This communication is to be treated as confidential and the 
information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose 
for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are 
not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the 
sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email may 
not be those of Logical Elements.


WARNING Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient 
should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of 
viruses. Logical Elements accepts no liability for any damage caused by 
any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. This E-mail and any attachments 
may not be copied or forwarded without the express permission of Logical 
Elements. In the event of any unauthorised copying or forwarding, the 
recipient will be required to indemnify Logical Elements against any 
claim for loss or damage caused by any viruses or otherwise.



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Re: [WSG] utf8 character display problem

[Nick Roper]

Hi David,

Nice one - I'll give that go too.

Cheers,

Nick

David Dixon wrote:
you should also be able to add/edit a .htaccess file on the shared web 
space and add the following:


AddDefaultCharset utf-8

most hosts, even shared hosts should allow this (and it saves adding php 
headers to every page)


Thanks,

David

On 7/7/09 18:46, Nick Roper wrote:

Hey Rimantas,

I added a line of PHP code as follows:



and it works fine now.

I also installed Live Headers in FF for future debugging.

Many thanks for that.

Cheers,

Nick

Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
  

Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays OK on
our development server, but when transferring the files to the live server
we get garbled output.
  

<…>


However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last menu
item incorrectly:

http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then
uploaded to each server.

Any ideas ?
  

There are headers sent by your live server:
Connection:close
Content-Length:862
Content-Type:text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Date:Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:22:43 GMT
Server:Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By:PHP/5.1.6

Take a look at Content-Type header: it specifies charset as iso-8859-1. Charset
specified in HTTP has preference over charset in META. If you have
access to your
server configuration look for AddDefaultCharset directive in Apache
config. You can either
change it to UTF or comment it out.

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: nro...@logical.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)1749 676798
mobile: +44 (0)7590 538686
web: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34, Chamberlain St, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ, UK
---

IMPORTANT This communication is to be treated as confidential and the 
information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose 
for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are 
not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the 
sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email may 
not be those of Logical Elements.


WARNING Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient 
should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of 
viruses. Logical Elements accepts no liability for any damage caused by 
any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. This E-mail and any attachments 
may not be copied or forwarded without the express permission of Logical 
Elements. In the event of any unauthorised copying or forwarding, the 
recipient will be required to indemnify Logical Elements against any 
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Re: [WSG] utf8 character display problem

[Nick Roper]

Hey Rimantas,

I added a line of PHP code as follows:



and it works fine now.

I also installed Live Headers in FF for future debugging.

Many thanks for that.

Cheers,

Nick

Rimantas Liubertas wrote:

Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays OK on
our development server, but when transferring the files to the live server
we get garbled output.

<…>

However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last menu
item incorrectly:

http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then
uploaded to each server.

Any ideas ?


There are headers sent by your live server:
Connection:close
Content-Length:862
Content-Type:text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Date:Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:22:43 GMT
Server:Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By:PHP/5.1.6

Take a look at Content-Type header: it specifies charset as iso-8859-1. Charset
specified in HTTP has preference over charset in META. If you have
access to your
server configuration look for AddDefaultCharset directive in Apache
config. You can either
change it to UTF or comment it out.

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: nro...@logical.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)1749 676798
mobile: +44 (0)7590 538686
web: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34, Chamberlain St, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ, UK
---

IMPORTANT This communication is to be treated as confidential and the 
information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose 
for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are 
not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the 
sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email may 
not be those of Logical Elements.


WARNING Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient 
should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of 
viruses. Logical Elements accepts no liability for any damage caused by 
any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. This E-mail and any attachments 
may not be copied or forwarded without the express permission of Logical 
Elements. In the event of any unauthorised copying or forwarding, the 
recipient will be required to indemnify Logical Elements against any 
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Re: [WSG] utf8 character display problem

[Nick Roper]

Hi Rimantas,

Ah, very useful to know, many thanks for that. The problem is that the 
site is on a shared server, so we may not be able to edit the Apache 
config file, but maybe I can use PHP to send a header instead?


Regards,

Nick

Rimantas Liubertas wrote:

Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays OK on
our development server, but when transferring the files to the live server
we get garbled output.

<…>

However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last menu
item incorrectly:

http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then
uploaded to each server.

Any ideas ?


There are headers sent by your live server:
Connection:close
Content-Length:862
Content-Type:text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Date:Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:22:43 GMT
Server:Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
X-Powered-By:PHP/5.1.6

Take a look at Content-Type header: it specifies charset as iso-8859-1. Charset
specified in HTTP has preference over charset in META. If you have
access to your
server configuration look for AddDefaultCharset directive in Apache
config. You can either
change it to UTF or comment it out.

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: nro...@logical.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)1749 676798
mobile: +44 (0)7590 538686
web: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34, Chamberlain St, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ, UK
---

IMPORTANT This communication is to be treated as confidential and the 
information in it may not be used or disclosed except for the purpose 
for which it has been sent. If you have reason to believe that you are 
not the intended recipient of this communication, please contact the 
sender immediately. Any views or opinions expressed in this email may 
not be those of Logical Elements.


WARNING Computer viruses can be transmitted by E-Mail. The recipient 
should check this E-Mail and any attachments for the presence of 
viruses. Logical Elements accepts no liability for any damage caused by 
any virus transmitted by this E-Mail. This E-mail and any attachments 
may not be copied or forwarded without the express permission of Logical 
Elements. In the event of any unauthorised copying or forwarding, the 
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[WSG] utf8 character display problem

[Nick Roper]

Hi All,

Not sure if this is the correct group to post this to, so feel free to 
point me elsewhere.


Here's the issue:

We are working on a site that incorporates Russian text. It displays OK 
on our development server, but when transferring the files to the live 
server we get garbled output.


For example, the following test file on the development server 
incorporates Russian text into a menu:


http://dev.logical.co.uk/imperial-russian-beta/utf8-test.php

However, the same file uploaded to the live server displays the last 
menu item incorrectly:


http://www.imperial-russian-dating.com/utf8-test.php

The file has been saved as utf8 encoded in the editor (Komodo) and then 
uploaded to each server.


Any ideas ?

Thanks,

Nick



--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements

logical elements, 34, Chamberlain St, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ, UK
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Re: [WSG] font size - was [ Accessible websites]

[Nick Fitzsimons]

2009/7/7 designer :
> I've been reading (and trying to learn from) the discussions on
> accessibility and particularly font size. I have never had any success at
> using ways other than pixels. When I read:
>
> http://informationarchitects.jp/100e2r/?v=4
>
> I agreed with the author that the text size looked OK (he uses Georgia), so
> I tried knocking up a simple test/template and I found that Verdana 'looks'
> much bigger than Georgia, and Arial slightly smaller than Georgia. I also
> found that firefox was different to Safara, these two in turn being
> different to IE and Opera.  IE7 looked huge and clumsy!  See for yourself:
>
> http://www.betasite.fsnet.co.uk/gam/fontstyle.html
>
> So, whilst the idea of text at 100% sounds reasonable, I always get a mixed
> bag of results. I feel as a designer(suggester), that I cannot possibly
> allow something I've done to look laughably clumsy in some browsers.
> Contrary to the idea that users want to choose there own settings, my
> experience is that very very few even know they can do it, let alone want to
> be bothered!  Is there a way around this, which provides a more consistent
> interface AND maintains user choice for those who want it?
>

Different fonts have different sized letter forms; _of course_ they
look different. Look up x-height
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-height> for starters.

Verdana not only has a larger x-height than Georgia or Arial, it also
has wider letters; that is why the Verdana sample occupies seven
lines, while the Georgia and Arial samples only occupy six. Using the
MeasureIt plugin for Firefox, I find that six lines occupies exactly
the same amount of vertical space in all three fonts, which is what
one would expect given that they have the same font-size and
line-height. It's just that Verdana doesn't fit as many letters into
the same space widthways, and so runs on to an extra line.

If you expect all typefaces to occupy the exact same space
letter-for-letter then you're going to have to turn your back on
hundreds of years of typographical history. Using only monospaced
fonts will give roughly the effect you desire ;-)

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] Ecomm using Paypal

[Nick Lo]

I am working on a very bad implementation of a site. My job is to
improve it for the timebeing, while we are developing a new standard
site. Now the issue is with the payment system with the Paypal. I need
to put in shipping cost for the products bought from here..
http://www.netcomm.com.au/products/voip/v35?SQ_PAINT_LAYOUT_NAME=runout&SQ_DESIGN_NAME=runout

the hidden value says name="no_shipping"/>,


where can i find the right list of the attributes.. as i did try
 but didnt work.


Sounds like you sent this to the wrong mailing list? It doesn't sound  
like a web standards related question.


Cheers,

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Website Creation Documentation Standards

[Nick Lo]

Hi Lorrie,


List,

I am a web designer as a hobby and have run into a situation where I  
am not sure where to search. Does a standard exist for the creation  
of web site creation documentation? By this I mean documentation  
that would/might be turned over to the end user:


 1. to allow the end user to mange the site himself
 2. to document the project and for future reference


When you ask about documentation to "allow the end user to mange the  
site himself" you're not very clear about whether you mean documenting  
the construction of the site, e.g., the setup of the CSS for  
developing future pages, or actual use, e.g., adding/updating/deleting  
content via a CMS.


I don't have any suggestions for the former but for the latter I can  
recommend Screensteps. It's not open source but it is fast:


http://www.bluemangolearning.com/

Cheers,

Nick


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RE: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode

[Nick Hodge]

 
> On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> 
> > tee wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry for my ignorant, is IE8 out?
> >
> > Yes, as of March 19th.
> >
> > Keep an eye on a site like this...
> > <http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/>
> > ...and you'll at most only be a few days off regarding new releases.
> 
> Georg, thanks.
> 
> I have developed a work fatigue symptom that I don't want to deal with
> any beta version of browsers until they finally arrived.
> 
> Strange that Microsoft is a bit shy with the new release because  I
> have not been prompted to update the browser each time I turned on the
> PC. None of my clients' sites that I have access to their analytics,
> show IE 8 stats, except mine.

Shy no; more careful. Forcing major version updates on day 1 is generally 
risky. Security updates are treated differently.

More info on Windows Update plans for IE8:

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/01/06/ie8-blocker-toolkit-available-today.aspx
 

> Good news is, all sites are rendering properly as I expected them be,
> except one that the jQuery slide show is showing the exact problem as
> I saw in IE6 and 7.
> 
> A heads up, I was using Classic View for my Vista, in IE8 with
> standard mode the sites all had a few paddings/margins issue in a
> number of pages where absolute position is declared, and on few areas
> where there is darken background color with lighter 1px horizontal
> line, the line turns to solid white. Soon as  I switched to Vista
> View, all these problems disappeared.

Is the URL for this so I can escalate to IE8 team?

Nick Hodge
Professional Geek, Microsoft Australia


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RE: [WSG] IE8 compatibility mode

[Nick Hodge]

>
> James Leslie wrote:
>
> > Using  will also
> > have the same effect (getting rid of the compatibility view button
> > and forcing standards mode), but may be a bit more stable against
> > future releases of IE.
>
> But, may also lock documents to IE8's rendering capabilities even if
> future IE releases can handle more, better - which they should. Not
> very
> wise, IMO. You wouldn't choose/advice such a "safeguard" strategy for
> any of the other browsers, would you?
>
> IE8 does have a few dozen irritating bugs and weaknesses, and is
> (pretty
> much) limited to CSS2.1. However, IE8 final is pretty stable and works
> quite well for all properly built sites, so one can say Microsoft has
> done an acceptable job. No signs they'll jump off the "standards path"
> either now that they've finally got on it, even if they're a little
> behind the others.
>
> What's holding IE8 back now is all those sites that has been
> "safeguarded" and tailored to work in earlier IE versions as if there
> was no tomorrow, and it is about time we stop treating IE as a browser
> that will be in need of special solutions forever.

100% agree. Build sites to standards. This will help your design work on 
Firefox, Chrome, Safari and IE8

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

[Nick Cowie]

Hi

It is the State Library of WA.

Looking further into our stats, over one third of our visitors come
from the 80 public access machines around the building, which accounts
for the heavy bias of IE7 on windows. Making these stats
unrepresentative,  sorry I did not expect that many when I start using
them.

An equal number are from within WA, with a large number of visitors
from the education (schools and universities) and government sectors
as well as local libraries.

The remaining 30% are evenly split between the rest of Australia and
the rest of the world.


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

[Nick Cowie]

OK here are some other interesting stats from another major library
site, IE7 rules and Chrome is > 0.5%

Browser  Website IE7/IE6
Internet Explorer 86.88% (80/20)
Firefox 9.29%   
Safari   2.17%
Chrome0.47% 
Opera   0.27%

More interesting are the wifi browsers, mainly netbooks and
inexpensive laptops, which are as likely to be  Chinese language as
English
Browser  WifiIE7/IE6
Internet Explorer  69.56%  (67/33)  
Firefox20.42%   
Safari   8.64%  (Mac + iPod + iPhone + Symbian)
Opera   1.09%   
Chrome 0.07%
Blazer   0.06%  
Playstation Portable   0.05%

IE6 has gone from 1 in 5 on the regular site to 1 in 3 of all IE
connections  in this sample of 10k.

Of interest Chrome on Windows is only slightly more popular than
Blazer or PSP (and less than Safari on Symbian or IE8)


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Re: [WSG] Chrome now higher traffic than IE

[Nick Cowie]

My blog has similar stats except it is Firefox over 50%, Safari about
10%, and Chrome around 5%

I am thinking somehow Chrome and Firefox got swap around somehow?

2009/3/3 Blake :
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Mike Kear  wrote:
>> Google Chrome now amounts to over half the traffic on these sites.
>
> Wow, that's the first time I've seen Chrome over 4%.
>
> Why are these stats so scewed, if I may ask?
>
> --
> Blake
> http://www.blakehaswell.com/
>
>
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>



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http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously

[Nick Fitzsimons]

Hi,

You could run a nightly build:
<http://nightly.webkit.org/>

If you find out what build the 4 Beta is, you can get that (or the
nearest) build from the Windows build archive at:
<http://nightly.webkit.org/builds/trunk/win/1>

HTH,

Nick.

On Thu, February 26, 2009 2:30 pm, Gregorio Espadas wrote:
> Hi folks... I want to install Safari 4 in Microsoft Windows for testing
> pourposes, but I don't want to dismiss Safari 3.2. I've been searching for
> a
> solution (installing Safari 4 without affect the current installation of
> Safari 3.2), but I didn't find anything.
>
> I find out that the Safari 4 installation updates the Webkit Framework,
> not
> only the browser itself... so, I guess installing in a different folder
> won't work.
>
> I'm aware that Safari 4 includes a User Agent changer, but I guess this
> tool
> is not for rendering, only for masquerade in order to use certain webapps.
>
> Any one knows how to accomplish this goal? I'll appreciate any suggestion.
>
> Gregorio Espadas
>
>
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Re: [WSG] IE and the element

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On Tue, February 24, 2009 10:57 am, David Dorward wrote:
> Nick Fitzsimons wrote:
>> Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have
>> buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons:
>>
>> "Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons
>> created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering
>> possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. "
>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON>
>>
> No, you can have richer rendering possibilities without giving up
> looking like ordinary buttons. The typical case is a button with an icon
> on it.
>
> http://www.packagekit.org/img/kpk-confirm.png for example.
>

True; I didn't phrase that very well. The point I was really trying to
make is that to suggest that the value of the button element is that it
*looks* like a button is to miss the point; the point is that it *behaves*
like a button. In other words its purpose is to provide a specific kind of
functionality, not a specific kind of appearance.

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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RE: [WSG] IE and the element

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On Tue, February 24, 2009 1:54 am, John Horner wrote:
> Advantages of using buttons:
>
> 1) Button elements don't need styling, they take their styling from the
> user's operating system, which they are, I assume, familiar and
> comfortable with. I won't be reinventing the wheel.
>

Actually, the specific purpose of the button is to allow one to have
buttons that *don't* look like ordinary buttons:

"Buttons created with the BUTTON element function just like buttons
created with the INPUT element, but they offer richer rendering
possibilities: the BUTTON element may have content. " 
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#edef-BUTTON>

In other words, the purpose of the button element is to allow the
functionality of a button without imposing the appearance of one.

> 2) Anchor elements don't have a built-in "disabled" mode, buttons do,
> and again the styling comes directly from the OS and the user is
> familiar with it.
>

If it doesn't do anything (that is, it is "disabled"), then it shouldn't
be an anchor element. An anchor element used as a hyperlink has a semantic
meaning. If that meaning should not be attached to a piece of content -
e.g. the words "Next page" when there is no next page - then the link
should be absent. While there may be good usability reasons for retaining
the content, such as maintaining consistency of interface, to think in
terms of providing functionality and then disabling it is to put the cart
before the horse: instead, only provide the functionality when it is
functional.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] IE and the element

[Nick Cowie]

2009/2/23 Frank Palinkas :
> IMHO, not very semantic in nature. We need the button element to be able to
> carry a valid link-type attribute. Enclosing it in a form just don't cut it.

We are talking HTML 4 here, so to have a link you have to use an
anchor tag, a form or javascript.

Frank is correct, a link is semantically correct way to go and to get
the behaviour John wants, he is better off using javascript than a
button. Though I don't know of a way of disabling a link with
javascript

The form option, gives more control, but is less semantically correct
than a plain link and will work with javascript disabled.

You can use a button outside of a form  and attached javascript to it.
This might not be semantically correct, does everything John wants.
Only problem does not work with javascript disabled.

-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] IE and the element

[Nick Cowie]

Rob wrote:
>Buttons were mainly designed as triggers for javascript behaviour,

I disagree, if you look at the original HTML 4 material, you will see
that the button element promoted as an improved input element.

Why not
foo
-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] Federal Court hearing re Virgin Blue website accessiblity

[Nick Cowie]

2009/1/20 Matthew Pennell 

> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Nick Cowie  wrote:
>
>> Apparently I have a different opinion from Mr Kerr on what makes a web
>> site accessible under the Disabilities Discrimination Act.
>
>
> Care to expand on that point? Do his views jibe with what most web
> developers would consider 'accessible'?
>
> From Mr Kerr's original  letter, his opinion appears to that the WCAG 1.0
guidelines priority level 1, 2 and 3 are the be all and end all of
accessibility, particularly with regard to the DDA.

I take a far more pragmatic approach, particularly when it comes to the 10
year WCAG 1.0 and a number of the priority 3 guidelines that are more likely
to make a site inaccessible than accessible. http://wcagsamurai.org/

Personally I find both WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0 to be lacking when it comes to
language related disabilities. Both for people with cognitive impairments
and those with english as second language, for example people with hearing
impairment whose primary language is sign language.


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Re: [WSG] Federal Court hearing re Virgin Blue website accessiblity

[Nick Cowie]

Chris, thanks for bringing it to my attention, I did not know about the up
coming court case.

I have seen a letter Mr Kerr sent a company regarding an "inaccessible"
website:
http://forums.port80.asn.au/showthread.php?t=12018#6
and received and replied to email Mr Kerr sent as a response to my forum
comment. Apparently I have a different opinion from Mr Kerr on what makes a
web site accessible under the Disabilities Discrimination Act.

It should be an interesting case and I am looking forward to the results.
This will be very different from Maguire vs SOCOG as it is in the Federal
Magristrates Court not the Human Rights Commission. I hope that Mr Kerr's
legal team have more than Mr Kerr and a letter from HREOC on their side.
Because if I was Virgin Blue, I would have a couple of experts from Vision
Australia and a couple of screen reader users to tell/show how they can book
tickets via Virgin Blue's website (ala the Target defense last year in the
US).


-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] re: Firefox v3 and opacity on opacity

[Nick Cowie]

Mike

I did not have any of that problem or any other issues with Firefox 3.04,
3.05 or 3.1b2 on Mac OS X 10.5.6

Nick

2008/12/19 Foskett, Mike 

>  Hi all,
>
>
>
> After finally upgrading Firefox to version 3.05, I encountered a rather
> unusual bug.
>
>
>
> When opacity is set to more than one level of container, contained links
> render badly on hover.
>
> Hovered link text turns white on white, which doesn't return to the natural
> state on mouse out.
>
> Scrolling the link off screen restores the link colour.
>
>
>
> Here's a demo which only causes issues in Firefox v3.
>
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en" lang="en">
>
> 
>
>   
>
>   opacity
>
>   
>
>  html * {border:0 solid; padding:0; margin:0; list-style:none}
>
>  a,
>
>  a:visited {color:#5E6277}
>
>  a:active,
>
>  a:focus{color:#c60}
>
>  a:hover{color:#000}
>
>  #wrapper{border:1px solid #ccc; width:200px; padding:20px;}
>
>  #panel{border:1px solid #f00; margin:0 auto; background:#eee;
> padding:10px}
>
>   
>
> 
>
> 
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
>
>  Gzip content: Speed up your
> site
>
>  Accessible AJAX glossary
>
>  Displaying code in web pages
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> Does anyone out there now of a solution?
>
>
>
> Mike Foskett
>
> http://websemantics.co.uk/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Disclaimer 
> This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The
> views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco.
>
> Tesco Stores Limited
> Company Number: 519500
> Registered in England
> Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8
> 9SL
> VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31
>
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Re: [WSG] Downloading Fonts

[Nick Cowie]

@font-face supported by Firefox 3.1+ (currently beta), Safari 3+, Opera 10+
(currently alpha) and internet explorer 5+

only problem Firefox 3+, Safari 3+, Opera 10+ support raw font formats (OTF,
TTF) only

IE supports EOT format only

Suggested reading (and tutorial)
http://jontangerine.com/log/2008/10/font-face-in-ie-making-web-fonts-work

The history of EOT and why (by Bert Bos good read)
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/Misc/eot-report-2008


Nick


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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please

[Nick Tomczek]

Brett,

I'd start with the Wikipedia entry on OOP (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Orientated). It gives you a good
overview of what OOP is, and even has a paragraph on JavaScript and the
Document Object Model it uses. Wikipedia may not be the best source for
information if you are trying to form and argument, but it's a great place
to start looking for additinal resources since the articles are linked to
other sources, internal and external).

Nick

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Brett Patterson <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am in the middle of a conversation with this guy who says that JavaScript
> is an object-oriented language. Is he correct? Could you please site some
> references?
>
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Re: [WSG] CSS editors

[Nick Tomczek]

I use Aptana for all of my web development (XHTML/CSS/Rails/PHP). It was
just purchased by another company, but they do offer a community version for
free (Pro version for $99). (Link: http://www.aptana.com/studio/). They do
have a Mac version, although I've never used it, I'm a PC guy, but it's free
so you can atleast give it a shot as see if you like it.

Nick

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Hassan Schroeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  If you want to save money and have an all round free open source editor
>> that does CSS, PHP, javascript, and other major languages I would suggest
>> notepad++.
>>
>
> Ignoring the fact that the OP requested a Mac -- not Windows-only --
> solution :-)
>
> So I'll mention jEdit <http://jedit.org/> -- also free/open source,
> suitable for just about any developer environment, plus cross-platform
> (requires a JVM).
>
> --
> Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Webtuitive Design ===  (+1) 408-621-3445   === http://webtuitive.com
>
>  dream.  code.
>
>
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-- Nick Tomczek

"Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What!
You too? I thought I was the only one."
   -- C. S. Lewis


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Re: [WSG] CSS editors

[Nick Tomczek]

Prisca,

I have a graphic designer that swears by CSS Edit for all of his CSS
modifications.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 8:42 AM, Gregory Alan Gross
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Prisca--
>
> Like Gicela, I too am new to Macs.  I'm using Smultron and like it a great
> deal.  How does it compare with CSS Edit and Coda?
>
> .greg
>
> "These are the days of miracle and wonder."
>
> On Mon 20/10/08 03:00 , "Prisca schmarsow" [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
> Gicela,
>
> yes - CSS Edit is fantastic :)  you'll love it :-)
> My other favourite is Coda  - http://www.panic.com/coda/
>
> you might also like to try Smultron which is open source:
> http://tuppis.com/smultron/
>
> happy coding ;)
> Prisca
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Gicela Morales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I've just migrated form PC to a new macbook  :-) but was wondering about
>> the best xhtml/css editors for macs around that people can recommend?
>>
>> I can see that BBEdit is still around ( I used to use this back in the
>> 90's) and CSSedit seem to have some good reviews. Any preferences?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Gicela
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> • graphiceyedea.co.uk • eyedea.eu • eyelearn.org •
> --
>
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You too? I thought I was the only one."
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Re: [WSG] WCAG2 in govt

[Nick Cowie]

I know WCAG2 is being considered in Western Australia. There is a debate to
wait for it to reach W3C Recommendation status and spend our resources
working on other issues now.


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Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music

[Nick Taylor]

Good morning James,

If it helps, what you will find is the typical user experience on band
websites is that the audio player automatically starts within 2-3 seconds of
the site fully loading.  The file size of the player and the audio file are
both small so the site isn¹t slow when being viewed on the user¹s end.

An important thing to keep in mind that the user always needs to have the
option to adjust the volume and to start/stop/pause the music.  If that is
not a feature the user will get annoyed and could potentially leave the site
just as quickly as they got there!


I hope this helps and have a great day!


Nicholas Taylor
Web Strategy & Systems Manager
Purdue University
South Campus Courts, Building D
507 Harrison Street
West Lafayette, IN 47907
(765) 496-6864 office
(765) 494-0793 fax
(616) 634-9193 mobile



On 8/15/08 10:14 AM, "James Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> This is a more best practices question than strictly standards, but I *think*
> it is on-topic, apologies if not and please mail me off-list if you feel that
> is more appropriate.
>  
> I have a band for a client who are requesting that on the homepage loading a
> music player starts automatically. Do people think this is acceptable for a
> bands website or would you think that you should always get the user to
> initiate playback?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> James
>  
> 
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Re: [WSG] Extra white line on the top of my list

[Nick Tomczek]

Michael,

Your image has the line on it. It's not in your code.

Nick

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Al Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: "Michael Horowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>> I a dealing with a different issue.  I am just having above my menu list a
>> time barely visable white line occurring.  Site XHTML and CSS both validate.
>>  Any ideas what to look for.  If you want to look it is at
>> horowitzfamily.net.
>>
>
> #mainNav{
>   position: relative;
>   top: 17px;
> }
> #mainNav ul a.menu {
>  position: relative;
>  bottom: 5px;
> }
>
> In terms of CSS only (I can't see your markup), the properties cited above
> could be likely candidates. I won't ask you why you are positioning like
> that as it would be better to see a live test page.
>
> Al Sparber - PVII
> http://www.projectseven.com
> Lightshow Magic
>
>
>
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-- 
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Web Business Consulting
Cell: (425) 750-0211


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Re: [WSG] Inline style works but css does not

[Nick Tomczek]

I'm not sure if this has already been addressed (the original subject of the
email), but have you tried using something like firebug in firefox and
tracing the css hierarchy?

As for editors Aptana is my editor of choice for any open source web project
(http://www.aptana.com/). It even does Ruby on Rails if you want to push
your projects that direction. Crimson Editor was an excellent text editor,
but I think its a bit old, and has moved to the Emerald Editor, but I
haven't used the new version. If you are an ASP fan but do the occasional
PHP work then the new Expression Studio would be a good choice, of course
since it's an MS product you'll have to pay for it.

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Gregorio Espadas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I use Bluefish under Linux, my every day system. In Windows, I use
> phpDesigner 2008.
>
> Gregorio Espadas
> http://espadas.com.mx
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:36 AM, David Fuller - magickweb <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> Speaking of intelligent editors... What do you all prefer?? Myself I am a
>> Dreamweaver fan... :)
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [WSG] Accessible Form Buttons

[Nick Cowie]

You have a few choices:

1. Use input type="submit" and scale the input using ems.
Advantages
Will scale in most browsers
works in all mobile browsers
works with CSS disabled
works with images disabled
works with javascript disabled

Disadvantages:
Does not scale in Safari or Camino
Can only use images as a background image which you can't scale easily

2. Use button type="submit", use a scaling image and scale the image and
button using ems.
Advantages
Will scale in all browsers that support the button element
works with CSS disabled
works with images disabled (if you use decent alt text)
works with javascript disabled

Disadvantages:
Button is not supported by some mobile browsers and Netscape 4

3: Use a link around scaling image
Will scale in all browsers
works with CSS disabled
works with images disabled (if you use decent alt text)

Disadvantages:
will not work with javascript disabled (needed for form submit

If you want to see the examples of the button element have a look at a
presentation I gave 2.5 years ago, it also show the limitations of the input
element.
http://nickcowie.com/presentation/s5-button.html



Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens?

[Nick Cowie]

I agree with Felix, you have build for your users not for screen resolutions
be it 1280x800, 800x480, 392x320, 240x320 (in the top 20 resolutions
visiting my work website) and the number of pixels per inch is no longer in
the 70 to 100 pixel range, but 70 to  250+ pixel range. So your trusty 280
pixel wide image is 4 inches wide on some screens but just over an inch wide
on others.


I have no great answers because the devices visiting a website are so varied
today, but you need to think about before you design.

Nick


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RE: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens?

[Web Marketing Experts - Nick Bell]

Please remove me from this email chat.
 
warm regards,
 
NICK BELL - WEB MARKETING EXPERTS
INTELLIGENT WEBMARKETING  
HYPERLINK
"http://www.webmarketingexperts.com.au/"www.webmarketingexperts.com.au 

PH  +61 3 9667 0150
FAX  +61 3 9667 0134
MOB  +61 420 244 738
 
“Getting your site on Google 1st page can turn a hobby into a million-dollar
business.” CNN Money
 
   _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Anton Babushkin
Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2008 12:39 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Should we design for 800x600 screens?
 
I would say Absolutely, absoutely and absolutely!

My reasoning for this is simple: what about the rest of those users who
don't browse the internet with the browser in full screen? As a matter of
fact I'm doing it right now, so thank god GMail scales gracefully, or I
probably wouldn't use it!

I think the big question is how scalable your web page becomes beyond
800x600 and that all really depends on the kind of content your web site is
providing. If its something which can be extremelly useful for a Google
Desktop application then perhaps you need to take that into account. If not,
then perhaps rethink your strategy/approach.

Thats my two cents.
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, IceKat mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,

I have a question I'd like to poll people about. Should we still bother
designing to fit in with 800x600 screen resolutions or is it Ok to just
design for 1024x768 and not worry about smaller resolutions? I know
applications like Google Desktop make it more complicated and am interested
to hear people's views.

IceKat

PS- If this has been asked before I apologise and ask if it's possible to
see mail archives to see the responses.


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RE: [WSG] Structuring CSS

[Web Marketing Experts - Nick Bell]

Hi,
 
Why have I been CC on all emails?
 
warm regards,
 
NICK BELL - WEB MARKETING EXPERTS
INTELLIGENT WEBMARKETING  
HYPERLINK
"http://www.webmarketingexperts.com.au/"www.webmarketingexperts.com.au 

PH  +61 3 9667 0150
FAX  +61 3 9667 0134
MOB  +61 420 244 738
 
“Getting your site on Google 1st page can turn a hobby into a million-dollar
business.” CNN Money
 
   _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2008 12:04 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Structuring CSS
 
> How are you guys structuring your CSS files?
I am currently in the process of restructuring our CSS. The approach I'm
looking into is as follows:
 
1) use Eric Meyer's reset CSS to create a common base
 
2) use Blueprint's grid.css for the grid layer
 
3) use a component CSS layer to
a) give a basic styling (only margin, padding, height, width) to
site-wide components
b) give full styling to cross-network components (so they appear the
same)
 
4) use separate directories for skin-based CSS (contains colours,
typography, bg images, borders,... and self-contained image directory)
 
Once in production, so the plan, we can combine and compress 1-3 into one
file.
 
I like to use "heavy commenting" in CSS files and later compress them.
 
All CSS files should be properly indented and have section headings (ie. /*
=Heading here */).
 
 
I'm open to comments on this scheme. The more discussion the better the end
product.
 
Cheers,
 
Jens 
   _  

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part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written
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Re: [WSG] Suckerfish and IE 5 with no Javascript

[Nick Cowie]

Progressive enhancement is not only about old browsers, it is also about
other devices. How do mobie phones and other handheld devices (ie PSP,
Nintendo DS etc) browsers deal with hover pseudo selector.

I would definitely go with Darren, progressive enhancement and create sub
navigation pages, over Rick, Conditional Comments and building fallback for
specific browser in your pages, because you never know what people with use
to visit your site.

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Breadcrumbs showing organisational structure and usability

[Nick Cowie]

I agree with Steve Baty

Breadcrumbs hurt no one and help more than a few. I have been spending a lot
of time recently with our users, talking menu systems, navigation,
breadcrumbs trails and expectations.

If Parent Org > Clinical Services > Library >  Current page
is a list of links
and you can easily go from Parent Org to Clinical Services in one step
and from Clinical Services to Library in one step  (and hopefully from
Library to Current page in one step)

Then you are doing your clients a disservice, but not letting them know the
full structure of your organisation and it's website. Most library users
don't care about your parent org, but a few will. Plus it will give your
site more authority, as it is seen part of bigger picture.

You will get same answer if you asked on IAI - Information Architects
Institutes mailing list. You have to join the IAI, but if your are
interested in this type of thing, it is well worth it.

ps I work in a library and we have a difficult parent org ;-)
-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] AJAX short courses london

[Nick Roper]

Hi Paul,

We can book you on an online course:

Building Rich Internet Applications With PHP 5 and AJAX

If that's of any interest? Price is about right and it runs over 6 
3-hour sessions with live instructor tuition and 2-way chat. All 
sessions are recorded so you can play back at your convenience.


Email me off-list if you are interested.

Cheers,

Nick


Paul Collins wrote:

Hi all,

I hope this is on topic. I'm trying to find a short course on AJAX in
london and having troubles finding one that is of a reasonable price
(IE- less than £300 for a half day). Could anyone recommend me one or
possibly a good school to look into?

Thanks for any help,
Paul


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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: +44 1749 676798
   www: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34 Chamberlain Street, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ
---


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Re: [WSG] Reset the styles on a submit button with CSS

[Nick Cowie]

Paul

Go have a look at http://nickcowie.com/presentation/s5-button.html
it should show what you can and can't style on input type submit
(particularly safari/camino), and what you can do with the button element.

Note it is a couple of years old and I don't use the button element at the
moment. Waiting for XHTML-MP 1.2 to get into common use.

2008/5/6 Matthew Pennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Paul Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > My issue is that the submit buttons now have this styling also in
> > certain browsers. I'd like to give them a class and set them back to
> > their original look, but background:none; doesn't work. Is there a way
> > of doing this does anyone know?
> >
>
> Not quite what you asked, but have you considered using the 
> element for your submit button instead of an input? Removes this kind of
> annoyance.
>
> --
>
> - Matthew
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-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] selectutorial

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On Thu, April 17, 2008 3:51 pm, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
> hi,
> My friend wants to learn about css so i told him to do the selectutorial
> on the maxdesign site.
> It says to reset the margins in the body then use ems for padding.
> I was reading somewhere that cancelling out the margins in the body
> tells the browsers to go through all the tags and cancel out the margins
> and that it actually adds to download time. I dont know if thats
> realistic or not but ive been using margins for spacing between divs for
> a long time.
>

Assuming you're talking about

body {
   margin: 0;
}

this only resets the margins on the body; it doesn't affect anything else.

However

* {
   margin: 0;
}

using the universal selector "*" will indeed reset the margins on
everything, and can have an impact on performance depending on how the
browser rendering is implemented.

It isn't that the universal selector "goes through all the tags", more
that it has to be checked every time a tag (more accurately, element) is
rendered, which can slow down rendering time (it has no effect on download
time); if you want some deep technical detail on how the WebKit engine
used in Safari, for example, goes about this, read Dave Hyatt's blog post
at <http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2005_05.html#007507>

This is one reason why most modern reset-CSS files will specify all the
elements on which default margins and padding are to be zeroed: it
improves rendering speed if the "*" selector is not applied to absolutely
everything in the document. (It can still be of value without impairing
rendering efficiency unduly when applied at a more specific level, e.g.
"#example p *".)

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] PNG file sizes

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On Wed, April 16, 2008 5:59 am, Rachel May wrote:
> Only my personal website I've used transparent PNGs a lot...  I've been
> rather picky on how it looks, so that the shadows look natural etc.
>
> But this means that the file sizes are HUGE and download is really long.
>
> I created the PNGs in Photoshop (CS3) and just wondering if there are any
> better tools or ways of saving the PNGs for smaller file size, while still
> retaining their high quality??
>

If you just use Photoshop's normal "Save" functionality, selecting PNG as
the type, it will include a large amount of information in the file to
assist it when the file is opened for editing at a later time. Use the
"Save for Web and Devices" dialog instead and it will create much smaller
files.

HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Client cannot view website

[Nick Cowie]

ditto

in IE6 there is nothing below the menubar

except on the facilities page where the content appears, but the header
appears halfway down the page. because of '

'


I would add float: left; for #content if you float a block you need to float
it's parent for some browsers to render it.


Nick

On 08/04/2008, Алексей Тен <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm can't see content in IE6 too.
>
> Adding position:relative to #sidebar and #main fixes the problem.
>
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Lynette Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >  I hope this post is allowed. Just had a call from a client to say he
> > cannot see all of his website.  He does not seem very computer literate.  He
> > says he can see the "first bit" ( header and the navigation bar underneath
> > the header),  but below is just a green blank page.
> >
> > I can see nothing wrong with the site which has been up for ages and am
> > thinking it is his computer though I have no idea what could be wrong.  He
> > uses IE.
> >
> > Is there anything I can get him to check.. Url is
> > www.bourkebridgeinn.com.au
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Lyn
> > www.westernwebdesign.com.au
> >
> > ***
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>
> --
> Алексей
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Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction

[Nick Stamoulis]

Hi Kev, 

I would recommend that you do not loop music as this often does not sit well 
with many types of visitors. If you offer a choice for visitors to turn off the 
sound as well...
 
Good luck with the site!
Nick




Nick Stamoulis 
President 
Brick Marketing 
Direct: 781-350-4365 
Cell: 781-223-3651 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
http://www.BrickMarketing.com  

Read Daily Updates In My Blog: 
http://www.SearchEngineOptimizationJournal.com 

- Original Message - 
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction 
From: "John Hancock" >;[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Date: Mon, March 17, 2008 12:26 




 


I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example of an 
'unobtrusive' flash player. 





On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:

hi, 
Im doing a site for a nightclub.  So im doing a hybrid. 
The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously. 
What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music track? 
I mean the only solution that  is a frameset right but i just want some 
feedback of the dangers of this. 

-thanks in advance 
kev 




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best wishes,


John Hancock
Identity
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
t: +61 2 8012 2967
f: +61 2 9799 6135





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Re: [WSG] Flash on top of Flash

[Nick Cowie]

Good luck ;-)

Wait until you try it on a Mac or Linux box, they treat flash quite
differently. Even to the level you scroll down a page and back up again, the
order of the menu and animation will swap.

Suggestion put the menu in an iframe.


On 29/02/2008, Anthony Milner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have two flash files - 1 contains a flash menu the other contains an
> animation. We are trying to position them on top of each other...
>
> The flash menu is contained in a DIV with the following css..
>
> .top_nav {position:absolute; top:0; left:0px; z-index:1000;}
>
> The other flash animation file is contained in an iframe which is
> contained in a DIV and the css for both the Iframe and DIV container are
> as follows...
>
> #ourrange_flash {width:1000px; height:420px;}
> #ourrange_flash iframe {width:1000px; height:420px; padding:0; border:0;
> margin:0; z-index:0;}
>
> Firefox loads this page correctly, that is the menu on top of the
> animation.
>
> In IE, Safari and Opera the menu loads but appears BEHIND the animation.
>
> I would have thought position:absolute with z-index has authority.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Anthony
>
>
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-- 
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http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] * { display: inline; }

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On Mon, February 18, 2008 12:06 am, Tim White wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2008 6:00 PM, Katrina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So in the header of my document, I included
>>
>> 
>> * {
>> display: inline;
>> }
>> 
>
>
> OK, I just tried it and got the exact same effects. So, I tried
> combinations and body * works (and I see Patrick just posted the same
> thing).
>
> My best guess is that the browsers are setting  as an inline
> element, along with 

Re: [WSG] hello

[Nick Fitzsimons]

Could somebody enlighten me as to what any of these irrelevant ramblings
about a marketing buzzphrase have to do with Web Standards?

NickFitz in "about time to unsubscribe from this list if it's going to
degenerate into pretentious drivel" mode...
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Background images versus image

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 23 Jan 2008, at 17:29, Christian Snodgrass wrote:
[quote]
Although, in your specific case, I would go with what Dave Woods said. If
you really want those image check boxes, use normal check boxes, and then
use Javascript to swap those out for your image ones. With that solution,
if they don't have Javascript, normal check boxes appear (which are easy
for screen readers and the like), and if you do have Javascript, you get
your cute image check boxes. And, I'd say use normal images for those as
well and use alt text like "checked, unchecked, disabled", however, that
wouldn't work well with a screen reader.
[/quote]

Even the JS approach would potentially be an issue for screen reader
users. When a screen reader is used for filling in a form, it switches
from its usual reading mode into "forms mode", which allows the user to
interact with the form. If, however, your JavaScript has removed the form
elements, there is then nothing to interact with - it can't tell that the
images are supposed to be like the clicky widgets it understands.

So you would definitely need to look into using some kind of offscreen
positioning technique, rather than just replacing the checkboxes with
images, so that users of such assistive technologies would be able to use
the page.

HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.

[Nick Roper]

Dear All,

Many thanks for all the feedback on this question. It really serves to 
back up my own opinions and the message that I have been trying to 
convey to the client.


As someone mentioned - the client is sure that they had 'seen it done 
somewhere'. My own view is along the lines of others - if the content is 
on a web page then someone can copy it one way or another, and this just 
has to be accepted. The client is intending to make the data available 
on a subscription basis, so that at least restricts access to paying 
customers.


Thanks again for all the input - I will summarise and present to the client.

Have a great Christmas one and all.

Nick


Chris Taylor wrote:

From: Joe Ortenzi
Sent: 21 December 2007 07:32



Why not simply make people register for it? Then you
have their details and if you make the registration
process intelligent, they will be aware they are being
tracked and more likely to behave. All sorts of benefits
and if the discussion forum is inside there as well then
you can even claim some web 2.0-ness as an added benefit
of registration!


This to me seems like a good option, and by registering someone you could then give them 
a "doctored" version of the data including unique information to tie that 
particular view of the data with their session. That unique ID could be in a table cell, 
in the title of the page, as a footer etc. If you found a copy of that data with the 
unique session ID anywhere you could trace it back to a date, time, IP address and 
registered user.

Of course the problem there is that anyone with a bit of HTML skill could 
remove the unique ID from the page. Still, it may help to deter casual copiers.

Chris


This message has been scanned for malware by SurfControl plc. 
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--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements
innovative web and internet solutions
zend/php & mysql approved partner
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: +44 1749 676798
   www: www.logical.co.uk
skype: nick.roper / +44 20 7870 9587

logical elements, 34 Chamberlain Street, Wells, Somerset, BA5 2PJ
---


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Re: [WSG] Rockwell?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 21 Dec 2007, at 10:05, Jos Flachs wrote:


Hi,

I got a font problem: for a site I'm working on I'd like to use
rockwell.ttf, in the h1 tag.

Rockwell isn't a standard font, but every windows user has them, and
it is also available for Mac. But I don't know if this font is in the
Mac fontbook. And I'm pretty sure *nix users don't have it at all.


I don't have Rockwell on any of my Windows installations (Win 95, 98,  
ME, 2000, XP Pro and Server 2003). I do have it on my old PowerMac (I  
can't remember which piece of software it came with), but not on my  
MacBook or MacBook Pro.


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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[WSG] Preventing copying of text from web page.

[Nick Roper]

Hi,

We have been asked by a client whether it is possible to any extent to 
prevent/deter users from copying content from a particular web page.


The page will comprise two main areas:

1) Selection options in the form of select lists, check boxes etc.

2) Once the criteria have been selected then a 'Search' button will 
initiate a script that will query the database and display resulting 
text records in tabular format.


The requirement is that the the user should be able to view the 
resulting output, but not to be able to copy/paste to other applications.


Is this possible to achieve in a way that is standards-compliant - or 
indeed in any way at all? One suggestion has been to apply a transparent 
image over the results table - but not sure if this could be done with 
CSS etc?


If this is considered off-topic then I would welcome suggestions for 
more appropriate forums.


Many thanks in anticipation.

Regards,


--
Nick Roper
partner
logical elements



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[WSG] Article: "Vocalize Firefox" (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

[Nick Lo]

I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially  
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:


"Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform  
Firefox into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual  
impairments -- and anyone else who can use a speech interface to the  
Web. Fire Vox is designed to be a full-fledged "screen reader in a  
browser," usable for daily browsing even for unsighted users. CLiCk,  
Speak provides point-and-click screen reading, which can be helpful  
for partially-sighted users or sighted users who have written  
language difficulties (such as dyslexia)."


http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

Nick


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[WSG] Article: "Vocalize Firefox" (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

[Nick Lo]

I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially  
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:


"Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform  
Firefox into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual  
impairments -- and anyone else who can use a speech interface to the  
Web. Fire Vox is designed to be a full-fledged "screen reader in a  
browser," usable for daily browsing even for unsighted users. CLiCk,  
Speak provides point-and-click screen reading, which can be helpful  
for partially-sighted users or sighted users who have written  
language difficulties (such as dyslexia)."


http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

[Nick Lo]

The problem with the code below is that the content of the   
will be
read before every . That makes it very difficult for a  
screen reader
user to read it fast. I would just have the question in a  or  
possibly

even a header element.

Once the user has read through a few questions and realises that the
structure is consistent, they won't need to listen to the whole of  
each

label and they can very quickly skip through the form.


What is your opinion on the idea of using SELECT mentioned by Patrick?

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

[Nick Lo]

On 04/12/2007, at 12:07 AM, russ - maxdesign wrote:


Hi Nick,

The sample code on this page you link to does not look ideal. As  
has been
mentioned on this list a few times, title attributes are often  
ignored by
screen readers. And the use of a table element to lay out the form  
is a

little odd.

Unless I am missing something, I'd say it would be much better if  
it marked
up with standard form elements. For example (warning - code below  
thrown

together very quickly):



The product is a good value for the dollar
id="strongly-agree"

type="radio" />strongly agree
type="radio"

/>agree
disagree
undecided
strongly disagree
value="Submit" />




You can then use CSS (and a hammer if needed) to position these form
elements exactly as you want.


That does help Russ, thanks.

As I said to Steve though I do wonder how much fun using JAWS or such  
like would be going through all that for 20 similar questions!


Nick


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Re: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

[Nick Lo]

Hi Steve,

I don't recommend that solution. We have tested this kind of form  
with a
highly proficient screen reader user, and he could not understand  
it at all.
In fact it was one of the few tasks he has ever failed to complete.  
This is
one of those cases where marking up content so it is semantically  
correct

does not mean it can be understood by users.


I recommend using  elements for each radio button and hiding  
them

off-screen.


Yes that is what I thought. Even some vague testing with FANGS over  
20 questions just looked so complex I wondered how usable even a  
correctly marked up one would be. For this reason I played with a  
SELECT solution mentioned by Patrick.


Thanks,

Nick



This was discussed at length on GAWDS very recently but I don't  
have time to

dig out the thread.

Steve



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Nick Lo
Sent: 03 December 2007 12:34
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly  
agree/etc)

forms

Hello All,

I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20 questions and some  
Googling

came up with the following approach...

http://www.enterpriseaccessibility.com/articles/
AccessibleRadioButtons.html

...and I was wondering what the general opinion of this or any other
solutions was.

Thanks,

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

[Nick Lo]

Hi Patrick,

Actually I had already prepared one as an alternative version to  
discuss with the client so glad you brought it up independently.


Nick

On 04/12/2007, at 5:10 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:


Steve Green wrote:
I recommend using  elements for each radio button and  
hiding them

off-screen.


Possibly even better for keyboard and screenreader users: swapping  
out the radio buttons approach with a single SELECT. However, this  
of course throws the expected visual design out the window...


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__
Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team
http://streetteam.webstandards.org/
__


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[WSG] Accessible likert scale (disagree/agree/strongly agree/etc) forms

[Nick Lo]

Hello All,

I'm working on a Likert scale questionnaire (Strongly Agree/Agree/ 
Undecided/Disagree/Strongly Disagree) with 20 questions and some  
Googling came up with the following approach...


http://www.enterpriseaccessibility.com/articles/ 
AccessibleRadioButtons.html


...and I was wondering what the general opinion of this or any other  
solutions was.


Thanks,

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Disabling Fonts in Font Stacks

[Nick Cowie]

James

I don't think anyone can without changing the stylesheet, but a fairly easy
> way to make a temporary change is a toolbox option like Web Developer's
> "edit
> CSS".


Felix is right the quickest and easiest way to test how different fonts look
on a certain page in your browser is to use Web Developer plugin for FF and
edit the CSS in your browser.  Fast and painless.


-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript

[Nick Lo]

From: "Breton Slivka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Of course if you don't feel like reading it, then don't. You have the
reccomendations here for the books that have good information (Unless
nobody has yet reccomended David Flanagan's "Javascript: The
Definative Guide"). When you're ready for good information, that is,
you have a specific problem that calls for a correct solution,  
then go

for those books. Otherwise, read whatever gets you into action, and
actually working in the language the quickest.


I recommend Flanagan's book highly. I also caution the original  
questioner to be wary of buzzwords like Dom Scripting and Web 2.0.  
And to a previous poster, there are times when even the most  
accomplished scripter might need to use document.write or an inline  
handler. Be wary of absolutes and, when convenient, check the  
actual work of some of these authors and you might be surprised -  
or not :-)


For some javascript video entertainment: Douglas Crockford (Yahoo!  
javascript blokie) has some videos on his site...


Video: JavaScript
Video: The Theory of the Dom
Video: Advanced JavaScript
Video: Browser Wars
Video: Quality
Video: JavaScript: The Good Parts
Video: The State of Ajax

http://javascript.crockford.com/

...in the first one (IIRC) he recommends that O'Reilly book as the  
only one worth considering. However I'm not sure how old that video  
is compared to some of the books mentioned in this thread.


Nick


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Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 14 Nov 2007, at 22:56, Lars Michael Sørensen wrote:


I recommend http://www.tizag.com/javascriptT/ - they have a lot of
other tutorials as well. Very easy to follow, all the way through.


I would recommend avoiding that tutorial - it teaches some techniques  
which should never be used by anybody with an interest in making  
usable and accessible sites. Generally speaking it will get you to  
the level we were at when Netscape Navigator 3 was the target  
browser, which was over ten years ago. There are much better  
techniques available for modern scripting.


I would recommend (in no particular order - look through them in a  
shop and pick an author whose style you like): "DOM Scripting" by  
Jeremy Keith, "ppk on JavaScript" by Peter-Paul Koch, David  
Flanagan's "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide" and Chris Heilmann's  
"Beginning JavaScript with DOM Scripting and Ajax".


Also, Chris H has an online course at <http://onlinetools.org/ 
articles/unobtrusivejavascript/> which will help you unlearn the bad  
things learnt from the tiza.com tutorial ;-).


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
Member, WaSP DOM Scripting TF
<http://webstandards.org/action/dstf/>
<http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/>

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Re: [WSG] Testing emails for Outlook 2007

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 7 Nov 2007, at 14:01, Paul Collins wrote:


I think the best thing to do is grab a version for XP, I didn't
actually know I could add it to that.

On 07/11/2007, Joshua Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 11/7/07, Mohamed Jama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You could always open the page in word document and if everything  
looks
fine there it will look fine in outlook 2007 since its using MS  
Word to

render!


Problem with that is potential differences between Word HTML  
rendering

2003 - 2007. I haven't really looked into it but it would stand to
reason there may be differences... they stupidly thought it good
enough to be the sole renderer for the most widely used email client
on the planet, so you'd at least hope it improved...



It might be worth downloading the Word 2007 Viewer - it's a free  
download which allows you to "View, print and copy Microsoft Word  
documents, even if you don't have Microsoft Word installed":

<http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/CD102258581033.aspx>

Maybe somebody with access to Outlook 2007 can compare the two to see  
if they are comparable.


HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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Re: [WSG] html & css review wanted

[Nick Cowie]

David wrote:


All the disclaimers make it difficult to review.


All I wanted  to avoid  with those disclaimers was:
1. You should of used shorthand properties to save space in layout.css (I
know, it was the quick and dirty fix)
2. Felix to remind me that not everybody has a default font size of 16px

You are relatively alright in IE7.0. In all browsers, the page is a
> little reluctant to be dragged from a full to narrower window but
> recovers: but perhaps a little less so in Mac Opera/9.24.


My main problem was with Mac Opera/9.23 when the top line of links
overlaying itself. No idea why it was the simplest part of the layout in
terms of HTML & CSS.

I think I understand one of the issues with window dragging and resizing,
the whole slow to load below the header issue.

Did the footer centre in IE7?

I am not happy with the centring of the footer, it was part of the original
design concept, but with rest of the design restricted to a tight grid, it
is out of whack. Plus I had to use 3 different different techniques to
centre a floating list that does not have a fixed width.
For Opera and Safari it was using a container div
For FF is was display: table; for the UL
and for IE (well at least 6 and below) a little bit of js.

Any better technique would be appreciated.

I have a little trouble (personal opinion) with navigation that is
> larger than content text,


That is useful feedback, I was feeling uncomfortable about the different
size text in the top nav bar and the side nav bar. Another opinion is always
good, it will change.

and content text that is set larger than default.


I set my content text size in strange way. I work out the size of the area
to be filled with text. Work out the maximum line length that is comfortable
to read (somewhere between 2 and 3 alphabets 50-80 characters ) And then
adjust the fontsize to the content text is most readable.

So with an elastic design, the main content area tends to be about 40ems.
And then stretch the design to fit the window.

I am interested in what other people believe how default content size should
be set?

Should we follow the most common behaviour and set it to 75%, 12px, 81%,
13px or something else?




-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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[WSG] html & css review wanted

[Nick Cowie]

Got to build new template for work, so if you could look at:
http://nickcowie.com/other/template/index.html
And do a critical review of the HTML and CSS (though ignore the poor
structure, lack of annotations and a dodgy bit of ie only code to centre the
ul in the footer) in layout.css (to be fixed)

ie could I do it better, did I use some dodgy techniques, is there a way to
align the top menu 2nd border with the divider between navigation and
content in safari and opera (it works in IE and FF). It is the problems of
using ems for on a grid heavy  ayout and then having to adjust for single
pixel width dividers using negative margins.

Known problems
The javascript assumes 16px base font size, that is to be fixed.
IE5.5 and below box model (also to be fixed)
ps does it work in IE7 and Opera for Mac (weird stuff happened but I need to
upgrade)?
footer in centred will everything else is grid based.


Thanks





-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] SilverLight

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 30 Oct 2007, at 16:01, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:


I recently spotted it in this article
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/05/11/ 
silverlight_programming_q_and_a/


Quoting Keith Smith, product manager of the user experience  
platform and tools team at Microsoft covering Silverlight as well  
as WPF and tools like the new Expression Studio:


"The pattern we follow with Ajax is to make smart decisions on  
behalf of the designer and developer"


When Microsoft say that kind of thing, my heart grows heavy with  
trepidation... remember all the grief they've caused in the past with  
stuff like determining how to display content by using assorted  
heuristics rather than just obeying the Content-Type HTTP header? All  
inspired by the idea that MS know what you really meant, and can  
"make smart decisions on your behalf", presumably because you can't  
make them yourself.


I'm reminded of a blog comment I read earlier today by a chap called  
barbecuesteve concerning the just-announced null characters exploit:
This really illustrates my fundamental problem with Microsoft’s  
attitude.


“The data you have is not accurate. Here, let me fix it for you.”

As if Microsoft is the sole determiner of what constitutes accurate  
data and what doesn’t.
<http://blog.didierstevens.com/2007/10/23/ 
a000n-o000l00d00-0i000e000-00t0ric000k/#comment-16560>


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/

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Re: [WSG] browsers render differently with "Optroup"

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 24 Oct 2007, at 14:37, Tee G. Peng wrote:


We must use 'label' right?

  PortMaster 2 with ComOS 3.7option>




The label attribute is only required on ; it is optional on  
. If browsers are behaving differently when it's used on  
, just remove it.


<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html> is a quick way to  
check whether an attribute is required or not.


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 19 Oct 2007, at 04:59, Kepler Gelotte wrote:

I created a test page that demonstrates the technique. I tested it  
with my
email but changed it to a dummy domain so I won't get flooded with  
emails.


Kepler, "mydomain.com" isn't a dummy domain:
<http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=mydomain&tld=com>

If you need to use a dummy domain name, "example.com" and others have  
been reserved for exactly that purpose:


"To reduce the likelihood of conflict and confusion, a few top level
   domain names are reserved for use in private testing, as examples in
   documentation, and the like.  In addition, a few second level domain
   names reserved for use as examples are documented."

<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt>

Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 18 Oct 2007, at 15:49, Anders Nawroth wrote:


IMHO captchas are used too much, as they suck considerably!


And they are also frowned upon by the W3C because of their  
inaccessibility, and the fact that they provide  a false sense of  
security:






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Re: [WSG] javascript/DOM scripting in cross-browser-land [UPDATE]

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 17 Oct 2007, at 17:29, Ray Leventhal wrote:


Are there known issues with DOM scripts and Win/FF2, or is there
something that I as a newbie to JS/DOM have overlooked?


So, the question then becomes, is there an accessible and
standards-valid way to make the script continue to execute?



Not sure when Mr Langridge last updated that script, but as a general  
rule FF on Win is extremely reliable - and so is Stu :-)


The easiest way to debug a script on Firefox is to install the  
Firebug extension. If there's an error it will appear in the console;  
the link to the script source file and line number will put you at  
the place that the error occurred. You can set a breakpoint there and  
that allows you to see what value variables have, etc.


HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 17 Oct 2007, at 13:47, Chris Knowles wrote:


Nick Fitzsimons wrote:

Word boundaries aren't right either; for exmple, they will match a
hyphen, so matching on some-thing will match some-thing-else. As  
per the

HTML spec, class names are space-separated, so you need to match on
spaces and the beginning or end of the string.



of course, class names are separated by whitespace so hopefully  
this is

it...

var re = new RegExp('\\s' + className + '\\s');


Nope, that won't match "thing" to "thing", only to " thing " - you  
need to check for the start or end of the string as well as a space :-)


HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 17 Oct 2007, at 04:50, Chris Knowles wrote:


Kit Grose wrote:


Just a note:
Your function doesn't currently use the RegExp function for anything
useful (you might as well use indexOf). RegExp is the right way to do
it, though, so you can enforce word boundaries to match complete
classNames only (if I want all a.pop to be new window links, I  
wouldn't

want a.popcorn to turn into a popup window).

See http://snook.ca/archives/javascript/your_favourite_1/ for more  
info

(specifically the update) on how to enforce word boundaries but allow
for multiple classnames.



good point - here it is modified to use word boundaries:



Word boundaries aren't right either; for exmple, they will match a  
hyphen, so matching on some-thing will match some-thing-else. As per  
the HTML spec, class names are space-separated, so you need to match  
on spaces and the beginning or end of the string.


To save time, Robert Nyman has already been through all these  
problems, so have a look at his "ultimate getElementsByClassName":  
<http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/11/07/the-ultimate- 
getelementsbyclassname/> including the comment from Bruce Weirdan  
explaining the above: <http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/11/07/the- 
ultimate-getelementsbyclassname/#comment-1583>


HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/




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Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash

[Nick Cowie]

Michael

No problems with flash and the menu on my Mac OsX 10.4.9 with FF, Safari or
Opera

Other than issues above, menu typeface is tiny in both FF and Opera,
increasing font size to read them does do damage to the menus with FF, still
usable though.

Flickering is also visible for me with Safari 2.0.4

ps that flash movie took ages to download. should be split into smaller
pieces that get called as movie progresses.

Nick


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Re: [WSG] How to make DHML cover flash

[Nick Cowie]

On 16/10/2007, Michael Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This has fixed the problem for IE6 and Firefox on Windows, so I'm assuming
> it's fixed for most of our target browsers.
>

Probably not.

If your target OSes other than windows, the flash plugin works quite
differently on OsX and *nix.

I was experimenting with HTML over flash, and while  works great on Windows. The flash plugin could not
get the order right for OsX or *nix, no matter what I tried (source order,
z-index etc). It was purely random 50% of the time the flash would appear
over the HTML and the other 50% of the time the HTML would appear over the
flash file. I was using it on a footer and could just scroll up and down the
page a few times to get different results.

So you need to check your menu system on one of those OSes. Just rollover
the menu a few times and see what happens.

-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 16 Oct 2007, at 10:43, dwain wrote:


On 10/16/07, Nick Fitzsimons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 16 Oct 2007, at 08:40, dwain wrote:


i did not put the pdf icon (don't know where to get one)


<http://www.adobe.com/>


thanks, i found one.  where do i put this icon before or after the  
link?

dwain



It used to be quite easy to ind the relevant page, but they seem to  
have let their legal department loose on the site :-(


Personally, I include the icon within the link; whether it goes  
before or after the text of the link is purely a matter of personal  
preference, or the dictates of the graphic designer. I tend to expect  
it before:


Download blah.pdf

Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 16 Oct 2007, at 08:40, dwain wrote:


i did not put the pdf icon (don't know where to get one)






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Re: [WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 11 Oct 2007, at 12:00, Ross Bruniges wrote:

For general meet-ups with presentations and such (like Geek Dinners  
or things similar) then it really is best to just keep a close eye  
on upcoming.yahoo.com for things as they pop up from time to time -  
you will also get a good idea of who to follow so that you can see  
when things are occuring as they say they are attending or watching.


Just to let people know, the London Web Standards Group page on  
upcoming is at

<http://upcoming.yahoo.com/group/1610/>

By all means please come to pub standards, its a hell of a lot of  
fun but don't expect to learn too much :>


And if you _do_ learn anything, don't expect to remember it the next  
day :-)


Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/



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Re: [WSG] London Meetup for people interested in an informal discussion around web standards

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 11 Oct 2007, at 10:58, Joseph Ortenzi wrote:

Thanks Karl, but the pubstandards group appears to have "withered  
away and died", unfortunately. at least the UK one.




Erm...
<http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/290703/>

Next pubstandards UK meetup is next Thursday :-)

HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] document.getElementById slow?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 5 Oct 2007, at 13:28:32, Simon Cockayne wrote:


So which is faster?

document.forms.myform.elements.field1

or

document.getElementById(field1)


When in doubt, test! All else is futile speculation:
<http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/tests/javascript/get-id-v-dot.html>

(Script at <http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/res/js/get-id-v-dot.js>)

Click the button, wait a few seconds, and you'll get three alerts,  
each showing the time in milliseconds for 100,000 runs. It's not very  
tidy, but the first result is the overhead of running the test, the  
second uses getElementById, and the third uses element property  
access with "."; on Safari, Opera and Firefox (Mac) and IE 6 (Win) it  
shows that "." is roughly one-and-a-half to two times *slower* than  
getElementById.


I'll get the test page tidied up and write this up, with an attempt  
at explaining the results, real soon now; in the meantime I'm late  
for the pub :-)


However you can go into work on Monday, point at your colleague and  
laugh maniacally while shouting "U haz fail" very loudly (or whatever  
the etiquette in your workplace permits) because (s)he's wrong :-D


HTH,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

[Nick Cowie]

Well the first round has been decided a couple of days ago:
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=221
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071003/wr_nm/target_blind_dc_4

the DDA does apply to websites
let more legal battles begin


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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

[Nick Cowie]

Andrew Maben  wrote:
>
> On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:23 AM, Michael MD wrote:
>
> Opening the door to yet more lawsuits...
>
>
> In 2000, Bruce Maguire's accessibility complaint against the 
> Olympics.comwebsite was upheld. Did this lead to a spate of "frivolous",
> "discriminatory" lawsuits in Australia? As none of the advocates of
> business' "freedom" to discriminate in any way they choose has brought such
> a flood to our attention, I would assume that there have in fact been few or
> no accessibility suits filed.
>

0 law suits to be precise.
If fact between 2000 and 2006 only 3 complaints about inaccessible web sites
were lodged with HREOC and all three where resolved amicably. None made it
to court, and nobody attempted to bypass HREOC negotiation and go directly
into court.

On the other hand the existence of WSG is surely a measure of how seriously
> the issue of accessibility is now taken in the Australian developer
> community...
>

Only in some sectors,there a still a number of inaccessible web sites in the
.au domain, but is has been steadily improving.

-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

[Nick Cowie]

One thing most people are missing is that with HTML1.0 the www was
accessible to a screenreader, there was no images, no tables etc. The only
way to make it inaccessible to any members of the community was badly
written or organised content.

Since that time a bunch of new features have been added and  since that time
these "features" have been implemented by "web designers" with out
understanding the implications.

Off my soapbox and look at the implications of the current court action.
1. The current argument before the court is does the Americans with
Disabilities Act cover websites. This is a fairly important precedent that
needs to be made/overturned (Southwest Airlines in 2002) because use of the
internet has become far more mainstream in the last few years.
2. Target made the decision to fight it on these grounds not the National
Federation for the Blind or it's member whose name is used because the way
the court system works in California
3. Like the SOCOG vs Maquire in Australia in 2000 are fighting it in court
because they think it is easier than to  fix their website. It cost SOCOG
and IBM roughly $500,000 in legal costs instead of less than $50,000 to fix
the site.
4. From what I have been told, the Target site is a bad implementation of
the Amazon e-commerce engine. If the result goes against Target, expect to
see an improved version all round.

If you Americans think the Disabilities Act is bad law then lobby your
congress/senate/big cheese to get it changed.

Me, I believe the internet is very liberating for people with disabilities
as the can interact just like everybody, until some lazy or ill-informed
"web designer/developer" stops them because the do not understand what they
are doing.




-- 
Nick Cowie
http://nickcowie.com


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