global warming.
It depends. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 21:49:43
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV
Hi Edgar,
And I'm losing the battle badly.. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 22:10:27
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hey Mike,
Beware, Buddha put all those cute Japanese girls
: What's after Satori
Hi Mike, Aha, be ware of Asian woman. Did you notice the Japanese
woman raised their tone by one octave when they talk? :-)
mike brown wrote:
Hi Al,
Still here (Japan) as a matter of fact. It'll be 4 years this month. I
came here for the zen, but will stay
@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 22:10:27
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hey Mike,
Beware, Buddha put all those cute Japanese girls there just to
distract you from the true path of enlightenment! :-)
Edgar
On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:47 AM, mike brown wrote:
Hi Al,
Still here
global warming. It depends. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 21:49:43
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV is the opposite
. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 3:22:35
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Mike,
Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in saying that since they
run the monasteries
Hi Al,
Still here (Japan) as a matter of fact. It'll be 4 years this month. I came
here for the zen, but will stay for the women. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Al [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 5:04:52
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after
Hi Margie,
I love your use of quotes to support your words and I think your choice is spot
on! I can see how someone might read these quotes and assume that the author of
them had little need for zazen or maybe never sat at all before 'reaching'
enlightenment. However, I would bet that most of
@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:27 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that
sitting in a
monastery doing zazen
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV is the opposite of
Zen mindfulness.
Edgar
On Sep 30, 2008, at 11:15 PM, roloro1557 wrote:
Hi Mike,
I'm glad we agree on some things and not others, if we agreed on
everything the discussion would be pretty boring :)
. If
they don't come that too is ok. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 3:22:35
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Mike,
Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in saying
Hey Mike,
Beware, Buddha put all those cute Japanese girls there just to
distract you from the true path of enlightenment! :-)
Edgar
On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:47 AM, mike brown wrote:
Hi Al,
Still here (Japan) as a matter of fact. It'll be 4 years this
month. I came here for the zen, but
Hi Mike, Aha, be ware of Asian woman. Did you notice the Japanese
woman raised their tone by one octave when they talk? :-)
mike brown wrote:
Hi Al,
Still here (Japan) as a matter of fact. It'll be 4 years this month. I
came here for the zen, but will stay for the women. Mike.
-
JM
Then what tone is their voice when they don't talk?
That's your koan for the day! :-)
Edgar
On Oct 1, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
Hi Mike, Aha, be ware of Asian woman. Did you notice the Japanese
woman raised their tone by one octave when they talk? :-)
mike
I have heard that after WWII American service men were taught Japanese by
woman. The men thought it was amusing that Americans spoke Japanese like
woman. GRIN
JODY
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk
Margie,
Are you saying your satori was also 'out of the blue'?? You must be very lucky,
or you worked hard in your previous lives. Another lady spent 12 years in a
cave in the mountains, still not awakened. Do you want to know who she is? Or
you may already know.
Regards,
Anthony
--- On
Hi Margie,
I would agree with your post. I lived in Japan for 3 years and did
plenty of sitting, but my path was facilitated much more walking the
mountains with the yamabushi and in various other non-sitting events
interacting with various enlightened spirits.
Osho's quote below is spot
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that
sitting in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste
of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori
Hi Margie,
Your words when the dancer becomes the dance or
the poem writes itself. are spot on.
To my mind there are two levels of Zen. The first is just
consciousness and realization. The second is active Zen, which is to
act in the world out of Zen directly. That requires becoming
The volume/degree of act out or flow through is called
merit There is no merit by just sitting, no matter where..
Edgar Owen wrote:
Hi Margie,
Your words when the dancer becomes the dance or
the poem writes itself. are spot on.
To my mind there are two levels of Zen. The
JM,
I don't think of Zen action as adding up pluses or minuses as the
term 'merit' suggests. That may be a useful idea in ordinary
Buddhism, but Zen transcends the notion of good or bad.
Edgar
On Sep 30, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
The volume/degree of act out
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hi Mike,
See my response to Margie for more. Basically my point, like Osho's is that it
is a big mistake to think that just sitting and then forgetting about zen in
daily life is all that needs to be done or will work. Zen is mindfulness 24/7
in the daily world
. I would argue that the vast majority of
masters from Zen say the same thing.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 September, 2008 21:10:41
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hi Mike,
See my response to Margie
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a
monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori
Hi Margie,
She is Tenzin Palmo, born Diane Perry in the UK. Her present name implies
Tibetan Buddhism. The Tibetan route of enlightenment has the same goal as zen,
but the way is very different. In other words, they are a color TV, and we are
black and white. If I were you, it would be fun to
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting
in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori is that it was a
complete obliteration of
Our heart is the pureland and our body is our temple... Nothing else
needed.
cid830 wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice only
Oh, let me add and every sentient being and every suffering is our
nourishment
cid830 wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice
Sent: Monday, 29 September, 2008 22:26:57
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a
monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One
Hi Margie,
Welcome to the forum. My name is Mike and like you I had a spontaneous break
thru', but unlike you I was fortunate to pick up a book literally minutes after
my experience (a book on kundalini as it happens). Eventually I was led to Zen
and so able to put words (as such) to my
Karin,
First there is a penis
Then there is no penis
Finally after satori there is the penis again.
:-)
Edgar
On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:10 AM, Karin wrote:
Bill Smart
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.
This is like a man's orgasm. I think this describes
If that is the case in Ox Herding, (I don't know what that is, please
provide link), then it coincide with our school's teaching. After
Satori, then one liberates every sentient being. In other words, enter
the mud and grow the lotus. Or cultivate the merit, on the way to
Buddhahood. Or
Well put, SimiNotes, since words do not count, neither are the
following.. I love it...
Our school teaches everyone to cultivate the chi and the chakras. In
Chinese, there is no word for mind. We have either heart or brain.
So, it is easy for us to say, let go of the brain and let the
Thank you, Bill. JM
Bill Smart wrote:
JMJM,
There are many links which show these pictures. You can google 'zen
oxherding' or go to http://www.shambhala.org/dharma/ctr/oxherding/.
...Bill!
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ps.com,
Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
[EMAIL
Hi, What I meant was, Edgar mentioned enlightenment comes after Satori.
Is there anything else we could to do to realize that? How about to be
Buddha? Do you talk about any of these? Do you talk about merit? Or
just slap on your face? Thanks, Donald ?
Bill Smart wrote:
After satori
JM,
No, I use satori and enlightenment as the same meaning. Traditionally
Buddhism teaches that Nirvana comes after enlightenment, nirvana
being final release when the spirit is no longer reborn and dissolves
into nothingness, but Zen says that is simply what happens upon death
since
Bill,
I don't think satori is a term used just for a first awakening
implying there may be others. There is some disagreement, but in
almost all of the Zen enlightenment stories satori is described as if
it is a permanent and irreversible transition. Frankly I doubt that
is true in all
Thank you guys for trying. Two more questions:
1. Is satori enlightenment?
2. If you agree that Satori is an irreversible transition. Then it
could be what we called, witness the Original Self. I don't know
whether zen has similar term?
Thanks, JM
Bill Smart wrote:
Edgar,
You are
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