can use shadowstat(1M) to show progress.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Appliance.
BP rewrite is actually very complex to do correctly and safely - it it
wasn't I'm sure it would have been done by now by multiple people!
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org
support.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 02/12/13 15:07, Thomas Nau wrote:
Darren
On 02/12/2013 11:25 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 02/10/13 12:01, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote:
Why should it?
Unless you do a shrink on the vmdk and use a zfs variant with scsi
unmap support (I believe currently only Nexenta but correct me if I
On 01/24/13 00:04, Matthew Ahrens wrote:
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Darren J Moffat
darr...@opensolaris.org mailto:darr...@opensolaris.org wrote:
Preallocated ZVOLs - for swap/dump.
Darren, good to hear about the cool stuff in S11.
Just to clarify, is this preallocated ZVOL
it and honoring it when it is the
backing store of an iSCSI target.
It also has a lot of performance improvements and general bug fixes in
the Solaris 11.1 release.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
On 01/22/13 11:57, Tomas Forsman wrote:
On 22 January, 2013 - Darren J Moffat sent me these 0,6K bytes:
On 01/21/13 17:03, Sa?o Kiselkov wrote:
Again, what significant features did they add besides encryption? I'm
not saying they didn't, I'm just not aware of that many.
Just a few
and general bug fixes in
the Solaris 11.1 release.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Michel Jansens
mjans...@ulb.ac.be
) shadowd that pushes the migration along, but it
will complete on its own anyway.
shadowstat(1M) gives information on the status of the migrations.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org
On 01/22/13 13:29, Darren J Moffat wrote:
Since I'm replying here are a few others that have been introduced in
Solaris 11 or 11.1.
and another one I can't believe I missed since I was one of the people
that helped design it and I did codereview...
Per file sensitively labels for TX
On 01/22/13 15:32, Edward Ned Harvey
(opensolarisisdeadlongliveopensolaris) wrote:
From: Darren J Moffat [mailto:darr...@opensolaris.org]
Support for SCSI UNMAP - both issuing it and honoring it when it is the
backing store of an iSCSI target.
When I search for scsi unmap, I come up
for SCSI UNMAP
Looks like an interesting technical solution to a political problem :D
There is also a technical problem too: because if you can't inform the
backing store that you no longer need the blocks it can't free them
either so they get stuck in snapshots unnecessarily.
--
Darren J
are lost if we use dm-crypt? My guess would be
they are related to raidz but unsure.
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
--
Darren J Moffat
On 11/30/12 11:41, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 11/23/12 15:49, John Baxter wrote:
After searching for dm-crypt and ZFS on Linux and finding too little
information, I shall ask here. Please keep in mind this in the context
of running this in a production environment.
We have the need
VirtualBoxes in the ZFS-SA OS, dare I ask? ;)
No.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
the highest version supported by the running software.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 10/24/12 17:44, Carson Gaspar wrote:
On 10/24/12 3:59 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
So in this case you should have a) created the pool with a version that
matches the pool version of the backup server and b) make sure you
create the ZFS file systems with a version that is supposed
simply wrong?
Initially there wouldn't have been.
Are you doing the zfs send on your own or letting time-slider do it for
you ?
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs
more importantly ZFS does not preclude the need for
off system backups. Even with mirroring, and snaphots you still have to
have a backup of important data elsewhere. No file system and more
importantly no hardware is that good.
--
Darren J Moffat
NIST
name of that hash.
With the internal enum being: ZIO_CHECKSUM_SHA512_256
CR 7020616 already exists for adding this in Oracle Solaris.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman
.
No ZFS checksums are over the data as it is stored on disk so the
compressed data.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
if there is an effort to integrate open-sourced
SAM-QFS into illumos
or smartos/oi/illumian.
Okay, then it would have been clearer if you had asked that question but
you asked about SAM-QFS on a zfs discuss alias.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs
-tying.
If you want to know Oracle's roadmap for SAM-QFS then I recommend
contacting your Oracle account rep rather than asking on a ZFS
discussion list. You won't get SAM-QFS or Oracle roadmap answers from
this alias.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs
On 04/30/12 04:00, Fred Liu wrote:
The subject says it all.
Still a fully supported product from Oracle:
http://www.oracle.com/us/products/servers-storage/storage/storage-software/qfs-software/overview/index.html
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss
but there is another (readonly) implementation of ZFS
encryption:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/grub/grub2-bzr/view/head:/grub-core/fs/zfs/zfscrypt.c
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org
.
For IO depends what level you want to look at, if it is the device level
iostat, if it is how ZFS is using the devices look at 'zpool iostat'.
If it is the filesystem level look at fsstat.
Also look acctadm(1M).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss
, see zfs
key.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
the check that 'zfs inherit' does
so I can get out of the situation and make the datasets accessible
again. So this is fixable so don't abandon hope yet.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
this means is that even though you have the same passphrase for
each dataset the actual data encryption key is different because the
passphrase value plus the hidden salt property are used together to
generated the wrapping key.
--
Darren J Moffat
On 02/21/12 13:27, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Darren J Moffat [mailto:darr...@opensolaris.org]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 12:46 PM
GRUB2 has support
for encrypted ZFS file systems already.
I assume this requires a pre-boot password, right? Then I have two
questions...
The ZFS
already.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
is important here is understanding where the encryption and
keysource properties are set and where they are inherited.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Import the pool without mounting any file systems.
If it isn't mounted it can't be shared.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
pool devices) go for a given
dataset are determined by a combination of things including (but not
limited to) the presence of a SLOG device, the logbias property and the
size of the data.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
have some deduplication support, it can import and read
datasets in a deduped pool just fine. You can't enable dedup on a
dataset and any writes won't dedup they will rehydrate.
So it is more like partial dedup support rather than it not being there
at all.
--
Darren J Moffat
not familiar with how FreeBSD is installed and boots can
you explain how boot works (ie do you use GRUB at all and if so which
version and where the early boot ZFS code is).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
be received on systems that do not
support the stream deduplication feature.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
with 2. ALWAYS let ZFS manage the redundancy otherwise it can't
self-heal.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
/fs/zfs/metaslab.c
See lines 1356-1378
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 10/18/11 14:04, Jim Klimov wrote:
2011-10-18 16:26, Darren J Moffat пишет:
On 10/18/11 13:18, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
* btrfs is able to balance. (after adding new blank devices,
rebalance, so
the data workload are distributed across all the devices.) zfs is not
able to do this yet.
ZFS
adaptors at the time
too.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 10/13/11 09:27, Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:26 PM, Darren J Moffat
darr...@opensolaris.org wrote:
Have you looked at the time-slider functionality that is already in Solaris
?
Hi Darren. Is it available for Solaris 10? I just installed Solaris 10
u10 and couldn't
service properties.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
to be in
the clear.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
. Can
anybody confirm?.
Of course if we didn't do that we would be leaking user data.
2. What happens with L2ARC?. Since ARC is not encrypted (in RAM), is
it encrypted when evicted to L2ARC?.
Use of the L2ARC is disabled for data from encrypted datasets at this time.
--
Darren J Moffat
.
Note the following is an implementation detail subject to change:
It is NOT checksumed on disk only in memory, but the L2ARC data on disk
is not used after reboot anyway just now.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
name of 'myrole' and a ZFS pool called 'tank' it would
be something like this:
# roleadd -R myrole
# passwd myrole
...
# useradd -R myrole cephas
# zfs allow -u myrole send,receive,snapshot,mount tank
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
it to filesystems
other than rpool. Which feels kludgy. Is there a better way?
echo set zfs:zil_disable = 1 /etc/system
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
does update-in-place and UFS only does update-in-place for
Note quite never, there are some very special cases where blocks are
allocated ahead of time and could be written to in place more than
once. In particular the special type of ZVOLs used for dump devices.
--
Darren J Moffat
node(Solaris) needs extra software, is it correct?
I believe so, also it is more than just the T1C drive you need it
needs to be in a library and you also need the Oracle Key Management
system to be able to do the key management for it.
--
Darren J Moffat
traffic encryption.
Indeed, plus you don't necessarily want to always have your backups
encrypted by the same keys as the live data (ie the policy for key
management and retention could be different on purpose).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss
layer concept - ie below the DMU layer.
There is nothing in the send stream format that knows what an ashift
actually is.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs
.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
is.
But basically it is not provided by ZFS itself it is up to the person
building the system to secure the transport layer used for ZFS send.
It could also be write directly to a T10k encrypting tape drive.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
make it slower.
I removed the separate log device from both of those pools (by manual
hacking with specially build zfs kernel modules because slog removal
didn't exist back then.).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
about any specific issue here but about the way
your conclusion was written it doesn't follow that because the pool and
version number are the same that no zfs/zpool/dedup code was changed.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
but at the ZPL layer that is multiple write(2) calls
and maybe even some rename(2)/unlink(2)/close(2) calls as well.
If you move further down then doing a snapshot on every dmu_write() call
is fundamentally at odds with how ZFS works.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs
good.
Not recommended by who ? Which documentation says this ?
As I pointed out last time this came up the NDMP service on Solaris 11
Express and on the Oracle ZFS Storage Appliance uses the 'zfs send'
stream as what is to be stored on the tape.
--
Darren J Moffat
systems support contract with Oracle you should
be able to log a support ticket and request a backport of the fix for CR
6989185.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo
://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E19963-01/html/821-1462/ndmpd-1m.html
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E19963-01/html/821-1462/ndmpstat-1m.html
What you mean by supporting it ?
I believe (though I haven't tested it) it works with Oracle Secure
Backup as well as NetBackup and Networker.
--
Darren J Moffat
snapshots recv'd ?
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-crypto-discuss mailing list
zfs-crypto-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-crypto-discuss
are a filesystem level
concept that is understood my many filesystems including CIFS and ZFS
and many others.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
that it uses private interfaces and doing
so is not supported by any Oracle support contract you have.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-crypto-discuss mailing list
zfs-crypto-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-crypto-discuss
appliances.
They may be storage appliances, but the user can not put their own
software on them. This limits the appliance to only the features that
Oracle decides to put on it.
Isn't that the very definition of an Appliance ?
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs
access would just be a totally
useless brick).
As an engineer I'm curious have you actually tried a suitably sized
S7000 or are you assuming it won't perform suitably for you ?
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
on delegated datasets ? Doing this for the
global zone is a little harder but for a local zone it can be done by
extending the 'zfs allow' mechanism.
See:
http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7011365
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss
if 'foo' was quarantined.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
script is
find/ls/grep. You could write a C program that uses the same method
that ls does to get the attributes but you will still have to visit
every file in the file system.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
to work with at least the following
backup applications:
• Oracle Secure Backup 10.3.0.2 and above
• Enterprise Backup Software (EBS) / Legato Networker 7.5 and above
• Symantec NetBackup 6.5.3 and above
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs
due to very
early boot issues.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 07/01/2011 11:56, Sašo Kiselkov wrote:
On 01/07/2011 10:26 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 06/01/2011 23:07, David Magda wrote:
On Jan 6, 2011, at 15:57, Nicolas Williams wrote:
Fletcher is faster than SHA-256, so I think that must be what you're
asking about: can Fletcher+Verification
that aren't Sun hardware as well as
servers.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
those optimistations for floating point don't come into play for ZFS
encryption.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
/zfs_encryption_what_is_on where I
explain all the type of keys used and how they are generated as well as
how passphrases are turned into AES wrapping keys (using PKCS#5 PBE).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/common/bignum/sun4u/
Note that there are separate kernel and user land variants of that.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
.
$ ppriv -e -s EPIL=basic,!file_write myapp
If it is being started by an SMF service you can remove file_write in
the method_credential section - see smf_method(5).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
of the problem.
Another alternative to try would be setting primarycache=metadata on the
ZFS dataset that contains the mmap files. That way you are only turning
of the ZFS ARC cache of the file content for that one dataset rather
than clamping the ARC.
--
Darren J Moffat
with these resources:
Oracle Solaris 11 Express Trusted Extensions Collection
http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/2580.1?l=en
OpenSolaris Security Community pages on TX:
http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+security/tx
--
Darren J
necessary for the on disk
format are in the CTF data of the binaries.
http://blogs.sun.com/darren/entry/zfs_encryption_what_is_on
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo
-discuss).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 01/12/2010 13:36, f...@ll wrote:
I must send zfs snaphost from one server to another. Snapshot have size
130GB. Now I have question, the zfs have any limit of sending file?
No.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
system you could
have just forced the import.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
, but obviously you lose your snapshot history that way.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 19/11/2010 00:39, David Magda wrote:
On Nov 16, 2010, at 05:09, Darren J Moffat wrote:
Both CCM[1] and GCM[2] are provided so that if one turns out to have
flaws hopefully the other will still be available for use safely even
though they are roughly similar styles of modes.
On systems
of the cryptography
design were also discussed on other archived public forums as well as
zfs-crypto-discuss.
The design was also presented at IEEE 1619 SISWG and at SNIA.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
/compress_encrypt_checksum_deduplicate_with
Is there a URL describing the on-disk format and implementation details?
It is a work in progress.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman
/compress_encrypt_checksum_deduplicate_with
For changing the encryption key see the discussion of 'zfs key -K' in
the zfs(1M) man page:
http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/821-1462/zfs-1m?l=ena=view
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
there is on one correct way to write files onto persistent media.
Choice is important and sometimes choosing more than one is the correct
thing to do.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http
is the
correct thing to do.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Express
into a production environment.
[1]
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/solaris11/overview/faqs-oraclesolaris11express-185609.pdf
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org
On 11/15/10 19:36, David Magda wrote:
On Mon, November 15, 2010 14:14, Darren J Moffat wrote:
Today Oracle Solaris 11 Express was released and is available for
download[1], this release includes on disk encryption support for ZFS.
Using ZFS encryption support can be as easy
/downloads/index.html
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
because I'm not going to disclose it here in case it is miss used.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
#zfs_ioc_vdev_split
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Yes, ZVOLs do use the ZIL.
If the write cache has been disabled on the zvol by the DKIOCSETWCE
ioctl or the sync property is set to always.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org
results in DKIOCGETWCE ioctl being called on
the ZVOL (though you won't see that in truss because it is called from
the comstar kernel modules not directly from stmfadm in userland).
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss
it require you not to use
hardware raid. Some of all of which are impossible if you are using SAN
or other remote block storage devices in many cases - and certainly the
case if the SAN is provided by a Sun ZFS Storage appliance.
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs
J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
guarantee that the LUN will not come from the same spindles
on the SAN.
That sounds like a problem with your SAN config if that matters to you.
Can I force zpool to not to stripe the data ?
You can't, but why do you care ?
--
Darren J Moffat
___
zfs-discuss
1 - 100 of 716 matches
Mail list logo