VACList-Digest Thursday, November 22, 2001 Issue 131
Today's Topics:
1. Re: composites, glue etc.
2. Where's Cliff?
3. Re: composites, glue etc.
4. Re: [A/S] Return from Pacific NW
5. Re: [A/S] Return from Pacific NW
6. Re: Chris Deam - hillbilly interiors
7. Re: Argosy end caps
8. Re: Gas Additives
9. Re: Chris Deam - hillbilly interiors
10. Re: thanks
11. help with floor rot
12. camber/caster question
13. Re: Gas Additives
14. Re: gas additives?
15. Lubrigas/Lubridiesel
16. Re: camber/caster question
17. Re: camber/caster question
18. Re: camber/caster question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:02:28 -0700
From: Gerald or Donna Shippen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: composites, glue etc.
I agree with you Toby, those rivets have stood the test of time-if you have
a good thing why change it? I have found that most things on Airstreams
show some wear except the rivets and I have inspected them for signs of
movement. The interior rivits do tend to sheer but not the exterior rivits.
However I have noticed some of the rivits down low around the floor line
which hold the trim on have sheered, but they seem to be a different type of
rivit. I would like to hear some the other A/S owners observations. GAS
At 10:23 AM 11/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
>not sure if it was in the late 70's or 80's that
>Airstream started using glue in addition to rivets -
>there are fewer rivets on the new ones.
>
>so, I guess my point is that they can be had - Hunter
>Hampton (AirstreamList on yahoo) has a trailer that
>has had to be repaired, and they used a combination of
>glue and rivets. (as it was originally built.)
>
>I guess I like the rivets - it's been tested for
>(coming up on) 70 years with the old style airstreams.
> that's a dang good record for a travel trailer. mine
>just turned 42 and there is no evidence of panels
>falling off, or (luckily) any leaks not due to broken
>windows or vents.
>
>BUT - the rivets are in there every inch or two - lots
>of 'em and the pieces aren't going anywhere.
>
>...the beauty of over-engineering...
>
>Toby
>
>=====
>"We were all busy loving music, but moreover wanting music to love us...and
for songs to love being around us..."
>
>http://www.tobyfolwick.com
>Minneapolis, MN
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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>
>
>
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>
>When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:43:24 -0500
From: Terry Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Where's Cliff?
on 11/19/01 10:00 PM, Bob Hightower at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> They didn't say, just that he was no longer there. He sure was a help to
> many of us. Jay has sort of filled in, as the new fellow isn't quite as
> knowledgeable. I'll try to find out where he went.
----
Good idea, Bob. Even if he is working for someone else, he still has
exceptional skills for finding parts that owners of Vintage Airstreams need.
More than once, an employee at a non-Airstream dealership has saved our
bacon. We, too, would like to know how to reach him, especially if he's
working for an RV dealer. For us, he's a valued and respected resource.
If he is retired, maybe he'd like to earn a few bucks now and then. I don't
mind paying a commission on parts I need, but can't find within my usual
support network.
Terry
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:03:31 -0500
From: "Dash7 (Michigan)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: composites, glue etc.
>From: Gerald or Donna Shippen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [VAC] Re: composites, glue etc.
>Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:02:28 -0700
>
>I agree with you Toby, those rivets have stood the test of time-if you
> >have a good thing why change it?
Lower cost,less weight and simplified construction.
Don (MI)
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:17:30 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [A/S] Return from Pacific NW
Where did that come from ?
Daisy
D Welch wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We're back from the second double sob MH take the parents on the road.
>
> Highlights: Mt St. Helens, Olympic Pen.
>
> Camped On the beach three times and once on a lake, many times we looked
> like a promo shot for RV's.
>
> Great time except for the events of 11th, which seemed very distant,
> getting closer, especially flying back into Boston.
>
> If anyone wants details of where we stayed, let me know.
>
> Good to be home, I stayed in the shower for 30 min.
>
> Daisy
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, go to
>http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/AirstreamList/ and unsubscribe. To suspend delivery
>while traveling, simply change the delivery option to No Mail-Web only.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:16:51 -0800
From: RJ & Krista <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [A/S] Return from Pacific NW
It's a looped message. The header timestamps show it was your original
post from back in September that the List server sent it out to everyone
back then. In this case the recipient was [EMAIL PROTECTED] - a List
subscriber. Their mail server just now looped it back to the List server
instead of the dead letter e-mail address, and the server then
redistributed it. Doin' theTime Warp again....
Happy T-Day everyone,
RJ
VAC Webmaster
Daisy Welch wrote:
>
> Where did that come from ?
>
> Daisy
>
> >D Welch wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
. ..........
------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:20:59 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Chris Deam - hillbilly interiors
George,
Funny you should mention Airstream using glued joints. Starting in 1994
Airstream did just that, almost. If you look at the side sheet of a 94 or
newer coach compared to a 93 or older you will see the spacing between
rivets is more than doubled. Airstream started using a strip adhesive not
unlike double stick tape to provide both better adhesion and a better
thermal barrier. When repaired the side sheets are normally overlaid rather
than replaced so the integrity of the joint is not disrupted.
Charlie
GeorgeHumphrey wrote:
> Hi Toby and the VAC group,
>
> I have to admit to ignorance of this string of e-mail,
> and I am not about to touch the hillbilly stuff, but I
> can speak a little to glue in place of rivets. Many of the
> leading aircraft manufacturers are now using glue in
> place of rivets. If you fly a recent corporate jet sized
> aircraft, it is an aluminum structure much like the
> Airstream with composite skins glued to the structure.
> Some even use composite structure. And guess what?
> They are stronger, more durable and will outlast the
> riveted aluminum. Rivets and use of the vehicle
> impart stress cracks that start at the holes. Glued joints
> do not contribute to the start of the stress cracks. If
> Airstream were to start using glued joints, I for one
> would love to have one. One of the major causes of
> leaks between the skins are the rivets and their
> contribution to gaps, holes, cracks and broken seals.
> The glued joints on an Airstream will even outlast the ones
> on the road now, and I still don't know how long they
> will last because this group just keeps them going,
> and going, and going, (like the eveready battery bunny).
> hi hi
>
> George
> '89 Excella 29'
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:28:12 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argosy end caps
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My guess is fiberglass inside, steel outside. By the time they started making
> Argosys, they had already changed from aluminum to fiberglass for Airstream
> interior end caps, so they probably used it for the interior of Argosys as well
> (?).
>
> A magnet would confirm whether the cap was steel or not. And anyone who has
> drilled the inside wall of their trailer to attach accessories should have a
> good idea of what kind of material it was made of, although I think the
> term "end cap" refers to the exterior(?).
>
> Besides, with Airstream, questions like this often depend on the year and month
> of manufacture, which factory it came from, what parts were available that
> week, what kind of mood the foreman happened to be in that day, what new ideas
> were being tested, etc.
>
> I can only provide guesses and more questions. Charlie Burke--can you give us
> the definitive answer?
>
> Don
> '63 Avion
While I have not seen either up close or in any records, a reference to fiberglass
exterior endcaps, I would not assume Airstream never experimented with them. They
do like to tinker. After all the Argosy was somewhat of a test bed. That's why we
got those neat biggg windows in front. I can check Monday to see if anyone at the
plant remembers such. Unfortunately the Argosy was not made at the Jackson Center
plant.
Charlie
------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 06:43:04 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Gas Additives
As for gas additives I only use Chevron Techron in my main vehicle. I am
a chemist and I know a little about them so I would say that 99% of the
additives out there are nothing but kerosine.
It seems that the Techron has a good grade of detergents in it and this
is why it costs a bit more than the other stuff.
If you have a fuel injected engine it is a bit more important to use
Techron or just get Chevron high test to keep the injectors clean.. Their
high test has the same group of chemicals that the additive contains.
If you still run a carb. then do like me and just put a bottle through it
if you feel power fall off or have a hesitation problem. I rebuilt my
carb. so I know when it is sick.
75% of a carb. rebuild is cleaning out the gum cheap fuel imparts.
Mike Kent
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:18:58 -0500
From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Chris Deam - hillbilly interiors
Charlie, I guess repairs on the pre-glued together panels could be overlaid
as well if there's a way to deal with the more numerous rivets. I assume the
rivets have to be drilled out in the new glued panels as well.
Jim Greene
riveted ' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie/Betty Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 23:20
Subject: [VAC] Re: Chris Deam - hillbilly interiors
> George,
> Funny you should mention Airstream using glued joints. Starting in 1994
> Airstream did just that, almost. If you look at the side sheet of a 94 or
> newer coach compared to a 93 or older you will see the spacing between
> rivets is more than doubled. Airstream started using a strip adhesive not
> unlike double stick tape to provide both better adhesion and a better
> thermal barrier. When repaired the side sheets are normally overlaid
rather
> than replaced so the integrity of the joint is not disrupted.
>
> Charlie
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:50:37 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: thanks
Thanks for all the advice and info given so freely on this list , its been a
great help with my projects , thanks to all who take the time to write , and to
those who make it all happen
Chris Elliott
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:49:24 -0700
From: "pete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: help with floor rot
Help - lots of questions.
I know I saw something recently on the subject but I didn't keep track of
the info. I recently removed the toilet in my '68 28' Ambassador rear bath
and found that the floor was totally rotted out around the flange. The
metal flange around the plastic ring sealing the toilet to the tank is
essentially gone. The plastic parts are in good shape and the tank does not
leak. Does anyone know how the plastic flange is attached to the tank? On
the top of the plastic flange it says that the flange must be attached to
the floor, but there is no visible means to do so. Any ideas about
attaching it to the floor? Finally, I will have to remove a couple of
square feet of flooring to patch in a new plywood floor. I don't know how
far out I have to go to get to a frame member to support the patch. The
tank top does not look strong enough to support the floor piece. The tub
and other bath components are still installed. Anyone know how far out I
have to go and if it is possible to repair this without tearing the whole
bath apart? Thanks in advance for any help offered.
Pete
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:55:27 -0800
From: Tuna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: camber/caster question
Happy Thanksgiving!
I've been fashioning a utility trailer out of the new(er) axle and original
suspension from the Trailwind, and cannot for the life of me remember how
the bend in the axle is supposed to go... some months ago, i removed the
wheels, brakes, frame rails, and axle - and then reassembled them... not
sure if the wheels are supposed to be canted like this:
/-------\
or like this:
\------/
anyone know off-hand?
Tuna
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:03:14 -0700
From: Don Horn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Gas Additives
My auto mechanic recommended BG 44K every 6 months. It's expensive at about
$20 per treatment. Since he didn't try to sell it to me himself, I tend to
trust the sincerity of his opinion, although I don't have enough experience
with the product to confirm or refute it.
The BG site is: http://www.bgprod.com/autofuel.html
I've also heard good things about Techron, and the repeated opinion that
most additives give you no advantage over the detergents already in the gas
at the pump.
Don
> As for gas additives I only use Chevron Techron in my main vehicle. I am
> a chemist and I know a little about them so I would say that 99% of the
> additives out there are nothing but kerosine....
------------------------------
Message Number: 14
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:23:48 -0500
From: Terry Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: gas additives?
on 11/21/01 1:30 AM, jim clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Does anyone use any kind of gas additive in their truck... during
> break-in??? later???
>
> Jim Clark
-------------------
Hi Jim,
I use a gas additive in my truck. Lubrigas is the name.
Does it work? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Oil changes (LOF) are another story. Every 3-4,000 miles? Yes! Yes!
Last month, the original 460 CID V8 in my 1978 Ford Van had almost 300,000
miles on it. 75% of those miles were from towing our 1977 31' or 1969 27'
Airstream around the continent for the past 20+ years.
That has all changed. On 10/02/01, I had a remanufactured engine installed
in our Ford Van. Today (11/21/01), the new engine has 2,400 miles on it. Of
those miles, 1400 were from towing our 8600 pound '77 31' Airstream to
Tampa, FL from Upstate NY.
Did I use Lubrigas during the first 500 break-in miles? Yes.
Will I use Lubrigas in the new engine? Yes.
Why?
Because, even as late as last Winter, our '78 Ford Van towed our '77 31'
Airstream15,000 miles throughout the southwest, including three round trips
over the Raton Pass (NM/CO state line) and easily kept up with other truck
traffic. The old engine was a veritable bear of persistent strength, even
though two cylinders weren't quite up to snuff.
It has been 50+ days since the remanufactured engine was installed in our
'78 Ford Van. So far, it has been sweet running, smooth and strong. Granted,
I haven't asked the engine to grunt, nor have I challenged it to pull our
Airstream over a real mountain. There will be time for that during the next
20 years.
Or, as Shakespeare said, "To climb steep hills requires a slow pace at
first."
Terry
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message Number: 15
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:13:20 -0600
From: jim clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Lubrigas/Lubridiesel
An interesting comment on Lubrigas....
http://www.mccallhitch.com/pro-svc/lubri-diesel/lubri-diesel.htm
Apparently, Lubrigas and Marvel Mystery Oil is really just oil with a high
flash point..just like the upper lube of old....
Jim Clark
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message Number: 16
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:21:38 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: camber/caster question
The bend should go up, like a pre-stressed beam.
Bob Hightower
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tuna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 10:55 AM
Subject: [VAC] camber/caster question
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> I've been fashioning a utility trailer out of the new(er) axle and
original
> suspension from the Trailwind, and cannot for the life of me remember how
> the bend in the axle is supposed to go... some months ago, i removed the
> wheels, brakes, frame rails, and axle - and then reassembled them... not
> sure if the wheels are supposed to be canted like this:
> /-------\
> or like this:
> \------/
>
> anyone know off-hand?
>
> Tuna
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 17
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:08:32 -0500
From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: camber/caster question
Tuna, I don't know but I'd guess they would be wider at the bottom like they
were on my Porsche Speedster to stick to the road better in curves.
Jim Greene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tuna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:55
Subject: [VAC] camber/caster question
> Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> I've been fashioning a utility trailer out of the new(er) axle and
original
> suspension from the Trailwind, and cannot for the life of me remember how
> the bend in the axle is supposed to go... some months ago, i removed the
> wheels, brakes, frame rails, and axle - and then reassembled them... not
> sure if the wheels are supposed to be canted like this:
> /-------\
> or like this:
> \------/
>
> anyone know off-hand?
>
> Tuna
------------------------------
Message Number: 18
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:27:47 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: camber/caster question
I'd think they'd be wider at the top unloaded so they are close to
parallel under load.
Gerald J.
--
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson. Reproduction by
permission only.
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #131
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