But I don't worry about the time when I'm doing it with the CD!
--- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.j...@...> wrote: > > Hello Dave P, > > Perhaps you can tell me what does "P" stand for. I felt quite impolite > to address you so. > > You see, the most effective meditation need to "completely" rest all > external connections. So that our mind is "completely" at ease. > Stress the mind is the cause of the OCD. > > And this "completely rest" includes the details of my my instructions. > Let us try the following... > > Follow the path of your belly breathing all the way into your belly. > Pause a little, then exhale. Do it as slow as you can with your eyes > closed. Don't worry about the time. > > Open your eyes only when you can no longer FOLLOW the path of your > breathing or just want to quit. Then open your eyes. If it were only > three minutes. Fine. Accept it. Just don't worry about nothing. Just > FOLLOW the path of your breathing. Just try to stay in belly breathing > longer next time. That's all. > > Is this acceptable to you? > :-) > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > > On 1/3/2011 3:00 PM, Dave P wrote: > > > > But isn't the alternative staring at a clock? > > > > I find myself never waiting for the gong. it usually just comes. > > > > --- In [email protected] <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦â¢Ã§Â²Â¾Ã¦ËŽ <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > Good Morning Dave P, > > > > > > Let me explain why "gong" or timer or any external devices are not > > > recommended for serious Chan practitioners. > > > > > > Because, when there is external dependency, our mind will be anxious in > > > waiting for that "gong". It could be constantly asking itself, "where > > > is the gong? when is it going to gong? Isn't it time yet? Haven't I > > > sit enough time yet?, etc. etc." > > > > > > Sitting by TOTALLY FOLLOW our path of breathing with Back Straight, as > > > per Mel, for a shorter time is more effective than longer time with > > only > > > partially FOLLOW our path of breathing. > > > > > > Just do it and please don't worry too much of the technicality of our > > > mind. Meaning follow your heart and not your mind. You will get better. > > > > > > JM > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > On 1/3/2011 6:43 AM, Dave P wrote: > > > > > > > > I wasn't clear about the CD. it is by John Daido loori, and it is a > > > > gong followed by 10 minutes of silence completed by another gong. > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > > > èæúÃ¥æââ¢Ã§Ã²Ã¾Ã¦ÃÅ"à ½ <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave P, > > > > > > > > > > Great. You are willing to give it a try. Here is the link to my > > > > > previous post on detailed instructions. > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21977 > > > > > > > > > > The following instructions are non-negotiable. > > > > > 1. Please don't use a CD. No music. No voice. Complete silence is > > > > > the only way to rest your over-stressed mind. > > > > > 2. Feel and sense the air passing into your nose, then throat, then > > > > > lunch then your belly. We called it, "follow the path of your > > > > breathing." > > > > > 3. Don't worry about the time, do as long as you can. 30 minutes is > > > > > better, but 10 minutes is fine too. Slowly learn to sit longer. > > Don't > > > > > worry if you failed to breath for ten minutes. Neither should you > > > > > expect to belly breathe for 30 minutes. Just sit quietly FOLLOW the > > > > > path of your breathing. > > > > > 4. You must commit to do it every day at same time and same place in > > > > > the morning before breakfast. Not while you are tired or > > agitated or > > > > upset. > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you have any questions. Are my instructions > > clear? Can > > > > > you commit to do it for a minimum of 30 days? > > > > > > > > > > JM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 1/2/2011 12:21 PM, Dave P wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Is ten minutes okay? I ask because I already have a timed CD > > > > with a > > > > > > 10 minute zazen session. > > > > > > 2) I hope I don't come accross as distrustful of your > > suggestions! I > > > > > > have had problems with that on the OCD board. > > > > > > 3) I think I might have lost your instruction. I am aware of > > > > breathing > > > > > > from the diaphram, and have been doing that for about three years > > > > > > rather irregularly. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really hope this doesn't come off as distrustful! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > ÃÆ'èÃâæÃâúÃÆ'ÃÂ¥Ãâæâââ¬Å¾Ã¢ÃÆ'çÃâòÃâþÃÆ'æÃâ¹Ã "Ãâ¦Ã½ > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dearest Dave, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we suffer, one of the symptoms is to be distrustful of > > every > > > > > > > suggestion, because we have been cheated continuously far > > too long. > > > > > > > Instead of questioning or thinking.... may I suggest.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you could, please take fifteen minutes every day to do belly > > > > > > > breathing for 30 days at same time and same place by > > following my > > > > > > > instructions from my previous post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you promise that you will commit to belly breathing for 30 > > > > days, I > > > > > > > will help by transmit the blessing of GuanYin Bodhisatva to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deal? > > > > > > > JM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 9:39 AM, Dave P wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is > > > > under > > > > > > > > control, and the difference between that and choice. There > > is the > > > > > > > > phrase "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I > > think that > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > is truth in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel > > one may > > > > > > > > nmeans that you have to ACT. That your actions have > > > > consequences that > > > > > > > > you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can > > > > mindfulness help > > > > > > > > with that? If so, how? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'ÃâèÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâæÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâúÃÆ'Ã'ÃâÃÂ¥ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâæÃÆ'ââââ¬à ¾ÃââÃÆ'Ã'ÃâçÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâòÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâþÃÆ'Ã'ÃâæÃÆ'ââ¬Â¹Ãâ¦"ÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦Ãâý > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year Ed, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very > > > > challenging > > > > > > > > > task. Let me explain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be > > > > aware > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not > > > > > > observing", > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > some of the terms we use while we translate from our > > Chinese > > > > text to > > > > > > > > > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom > > at every > > > > > > moment, > > > > > > > > > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the > > > > > > phrase we > > > > > > > > > need to represent with a single word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, > > we use > > > > > > are "be > > > > > > > > > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", > > > > "feel the > > > > > > > > > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions, > > > > > > feelings as > > > > > > > > > well as our general overall well being, physical and > > spiritual. > > > > > > We can > > > > > > > > > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word. > > > > > > Especially > > > > > > > > > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, > > mind and > > > > > > spirit, > > > > > > > > > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan > > > > teaching > > > > > > > > > requires flexibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the > > > > > > > > > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. > > > > After 5,000 > > > > > > > > > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you > > > > think it > > > > > > is, it > > > > > > > > > is not. It just is." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and > > > > just say, > > > > > > > > > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking." > > > > > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JM, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --ED > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâèÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâúÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâÃÂ¥ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'ÃââÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¾ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃââÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâçÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâòÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâþÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡ÃâæÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¹ÃÆ'ââ¬Â¦"ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬Ã¦ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâý > > > > > > > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of > > "mind" and > > > > > > would not > > > > > > > > > > let go.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ There > > > > > > > > > > is even a seminar > > about the small > > > > mind and > > > > > > big mind. > > > > > > > > > > Though all journeys lead to the same place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily > > > > > > misunderstood and > > > > > > > > > > misinterpreted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we > > > > > > continue to > > > > > > > > > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, > > mind and > > > > > > spirit." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure > > as the > > > > > > > > universe > > > > > > > > > > is not emphasized in western > > Zen.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ Most of the > > > > reading > > > > > > that I have > > > > > > > > > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its > > > > awareness, > > > > > > not on > > > > > > > > > > the body and little on the > > spirit.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ Though we > > > > constantly > > > > > > talked > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and > > > > > > > > inseparable.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ > > > > > > > > > > Just like the universe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind. > > > > > > Awareness is a > > > > > > > > > > function of our spirit, which reside in our > > heart.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ > > > > > > "Heart" is not > > > > > > > > > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our > > "center" or > > > > > > > > > > "ONE".ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ > > > > > > > > > > Awareness enhancement > > helps us to be > > > > awakened to the > > > > > > > > Absolute > > > > > > > > > > Awareness of the universe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This brings this post to another question. What does > > Zen say > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, > > spiritual > > > > > > karma, > > > > > > > > > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After several years with this forum, I have read > > little about > > > > > > > > these.ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ > > > > > > > > > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass > > karmic > > > > > > > > hindrance > > > > > > > > > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too > > > > > > objectionable to > > > > > > > > ALL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and > > > > > > understanding for > > > > > > > > > > all the years. > > > > > > > > > > JMJM > > > > > > > > > > Head Teacher > > > > > > > > > > Order Of Chan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ > > > > > > > > > >> Or the emptiness of mind. > > > > > > > > > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about > > > > mindfulness. > > > > > > > > > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your > > > > > > attention > > > > > > > > > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is > > > > "mind > > > > > > > > > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the > > fullness > > > > > > of your > > > > > > > > > >> mind. Or am I way off > > > > > > > > > >> here?ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! 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