But I don't worry about the time when I'm doing it with the CD!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<chan.j...@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Dave P,
> 
> Perhaps you can tell me what does "P" stand for.  I felt quite impolite 
> to address you so.
> 
> You see, the most effective meditation need to "completely" rest all 
> external connections.  So that our mind is "completely" at ease.   
> Stress the mind is the cause of the OCD.
> 
> And this "completely rest" includes the details of my my instructions.  
> Let us try the following...
> 
> Follow the path of your belly breathing all the way into your belly.  
> Pause a little, then exhale.  Do it as slow as you can with your eyes 
> closed.  Don't worry about the time.
> 
> Open your eyes only when you can no longer FOLLOW the path of your 
> breathing or just want to quit.  Then open your eyes.  If it were only 
> three minutes.  Fine.  Accept it.  Just don't worry about nothing.  Just 
> FOLLOW the path of your breathing.  Just try to stay in belly breathing 
> longer next time.  That's all.
> 
> Is this acceptable to you?
> :-)
> 
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> http://www.heartchan.org
> 
> 
> On 1/3/2011 3:00 PM, Dave P wrote:
> >
> > But isn't the alternative staring at a clock?
> >
> > I find myself never waiting for the gong. it usually just comes.
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good Morning Dave P,
> > >
> > > Let me explain why "gong" or timer or any external devices are not
> > > recommended for serious Chan practitioners.
> > >
> > > Because, when there is external dependency, our mind will be anxious in
> > > waiting for that "gong". It could be constantly asking itself, "where
> > > is the gong? when is it going to gong? Isn't it time yet? Haven't I
> > > sit enough time yet?, etc. etc."
> > >
> > > Sitting by TOTALLY FOLLOW our path of breathing with Back Straight, as
> > > per Mel, for a shorter time is more effective than longer time with 
> > only
> > > partially FOLLOW our path of breathing.
> > >
> > > Just do it and please don't worry too much of the technicality of our
> > > mind. Meaning follow your heart and not your mind. You will get better.
> > >
> > > JM
> > >
> > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/3/2011 6:43 AM, Dave P wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I wasn't clear about the CD. it is by John Daido loori, and it is a
> > > > gong followed by 10 minutes of silence completed by another gong.
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > > > 覺妙精æËÅ"Ž <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Dave P,
> > > > >
> > > > > Great. You are willing to give it a try. Here is the link to my
> > > > > previous post on detailed instructions.
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/message/21977
> > > > >
> > > > > The following instructions are non-negotiable.
> > > > > 1. Please don't use a CD. No music. No voice. Complete silence is
> > > > > the only way to rest your over-stressed mind.
> > > > > 2. Feel and sense the air passing into your nose, then throat, then
> > > > > lunch then your belly. We called it, "follow the path of your
> > > > breathing."
> > > > > 3. Don't worry about the time, do as long as you can. 30 minutes is
> > > > > better, but 10 minutes is fine too. Slowly learn to sit longer. 
> > Don't
> > > > > worry if you failed to breath for ten minutes. Neither should you
> > > > > expect to belly breathe for 30 minutes. Just sit quietly FOLLOW the
> > > > > path of your breathing.
> > > > > 4. You must commit to do it every day at same time and same place in
> > > > > the morning before breakfast. Not while you are tired or 
> > agitated or
> > > > upset.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if you have any questions. Are my instructions 
> > clear? Can
> > > > > you commit to do it for a minimum of 30 days?
> > > > >
> > > > > JM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/2/2011 12:21 PM, Dave P wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Is ten minutes okay? I ask because I already have a timed CD
> > > > with a
> > > > > > 10 minute zazen session.
> > > > > > 2) I hope I don't come accross as distrustful of your 
> > suggestions! I
> > > > > > have had problems with that on the OCD board.
> > > > > > 3) I think I might have lost your instruction. I am aware of
> > > > breathing
> > > > > > from the diaphram, and have been doing that for about three years
> > > > > > rather irregularly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I really hope this doesn't come off as distrustful!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > ÃÆ'¨Â¦ÂºÃÆ'¥Â¦â„¢ÃÆ'§Â²Â¾ÃÆ'¦ËÅ"Ž
> >  <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dearest Dave,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When we suffer, one of the symptoms is to be distrustful of 
> > every
> > > > > > > suggestion, because we have been cheated continuously far 
> > too long.
> > > > > > > Instead of questioning or thinking.... may I suggest....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you could, please take fifteen minutes every day to do belly
> > > > > > > breathing for 30 days at same time and same place by 
> > following my
> > > > > > > instructions from my previous post.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you promise that you will commit to belly breathing for 30
> > > > days, I
> > > > > > > will help by transmit the blessing of GuanYin Bodhisatva to you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Deal?
> > > > > > > JM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 9:39 AM, Dave P wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is
> > > > under
> > > > > > > > control, and the difference between that and choice. There 
> > is the
> > > > > > > > phrase "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." I 
> > think that
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > is truth in that, but I still feel that choosing to feel 
> > one may
> > > > > > > > nmeans that you have to ACT. That your actions have
> > > > consequences that
> > > > > > > > you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. Can
> > > > mindfulness help
> > > > > > > > with that? If so, how?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > > > > Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > > > 
> > ÃÆ'Æ'¨ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'‚ºÃÆ'Æ'Â¥ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'¢â€žÂ¢ÃÆ'Æ'§ÃÆ'‚²ÃÆ'‚¾ÃÆ'Æ'¦ÃÆ'‹Å"ÃÆ'…½
> >  
> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Happy New Year Ed,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very
> > > > challenging
> > > > > > > > > task. Let me explain.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be
> > > > aware
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not
> > > > > > observing",
> > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > some of the terms we use while we translate from our 
> > Chinese
> > > > text to
> > > > > > > > > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom 
> > at every
> > > > > > moment,
> > > > > > > > > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the
> > > > > > phrase we
> > > > > > > > > need to represent with a single word.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, 
> > we use
> > > > > > are "be
> > > > > > > > > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing",
> > > > "feel the
> > > > > > > > > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions,
> > > > > > feelings as
> > > > > > > > > well as our general overall well being, physical and 
> > spiritual.
> > > > > > We can
> > > > > > > > > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word.
> > > > > > Especially
> > > > > > > > > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, 
> > mind and
> > > > > > spirit,
> > > > > > > > > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan
> > > > teaching
> > > > > > > > > requires flexibility.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the
> > > > > > > > > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow.
> > > > After 5,000
> > > > > > > > > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you
> > > > think it
> > > > > > is, it
> > > > > > > > > is not. It just is."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and
> > > > just say,
> > > > > > > > > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> > > > > > > > > LOL.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > JM,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --ED
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming -
> > > > > > > >
> > > > 
> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚¨ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ºÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚Â¥ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'Æ'¢ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¾ÃÆ'‚¢ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚§ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚²ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚¾ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'‚¦ÃÆ'Æ'‹ÃÆ'…"ÃÆ'Æ'…ÃÆ'‚½
> > > > > > > > > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of 
> > "mind" and
> > > > > > would not
> > > > > > > > > > let go.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ There 
> > > > > > > > > > is even a seminar 
> > about the small
> > > > mind and
> > > > > > big mind.
> > > > > > > > > > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily
> > > > > > misunderstood and
> > > > > > > > > > misinterpreted.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we
> > > > > > continue to
> > > > > > > > > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, 
> > mind and
> > > > > > spirit."
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure 
> > as the
> > > > > > > > universe
> > > > > > > > > > is not emphasized in western 
> > Zen.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ Most of the
> > > > reading
> > > > > > that I have
> > > > > > > > > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its
> > > > awareness,
> > > > > > not on
> > > > > > > > > > the body and little on the 
> > spirit.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ Though we
> > > > constantly
> > > > > > talked
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and
> > > > > > > > inseparable.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡
> > > > > > > > > > Just like the universe.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind.
> > > > > > Awareness is a
> > > > > > > > > > function of our spirit, which reside in our 
> > heart.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡
> > > > > > "Heart" is not
> > > > > > > > > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our 
> > "center" or
> > > > > > > > > > "ONE".ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ 
> > > > > > > > > > Awareness enhancement 
> > helps us to be
> > > > awakened to the
> > > > > > > > Absolute
> > > > > > > > > > Awareness of the universe.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This brings this post to another question. What does 
> > Zen say
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, 
> > spiritual
> > > > > > karma,
> > > > > > > > > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > After several years with this forum, I have read 
> > little about
> > > > > > > > these.ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡
> > > > > > > > > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass 
> > karmic
> > > > > > > > hindrance
> > > > > > > > > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too
> > > > > > objectionable to
> > > > > > > > ALL.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and
> > > > > > understanding for
> > > > > > > > > > all the years.
> > > > > > > > > > JMJM
> > > > > > > > > > Head Teacher
> > > > > > > > > > Order Of Chan
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > > > > > > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡
> > > > > > > > > >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> > > > > > > > > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about
> > > > mindfulness.
> > > > > > > > > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your
> > > > > > attention
> > > > > > > > > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is
> > > > "mind
> > > > > > > > > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the 
> > fullness
> > > > > > of your
> > > > > > > > > >> mind. Or am I way off 
> > > > > > > > > >> here?ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
    zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to