It´s kind of you to apologise to ED if you believe having done something 
incorrect.  The only thing here is that you didn´t.  The example of the peach 
has as much value as the example of the rice as both come from the direct 
experience of the practise from two different people.. This is called the 
fruits of the practice.

 Unless Mr ED and similars get into the real practise of zen, their opinions 
are not relevant and not certainly relable at present as far as zen concerns.  
Mr ED opinions in zen only will be reliable the day that he´ll be talking about 
any subject he has experienced by himself and not because somebody else has 
said that.


--- On Tue, 11/1/11, Chris Austin-Lane <> wrote:

From: Chris Austin-Lane <>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Not understanding mindfulness
Date: Tuesday, 11 January, 2011, 16:18



      I apologize if I have violated the current cultural mores, Ed.  
Understanding group norms has always been a thing I stumble over, I can use all 
the hints I can get.  I do not mean to tell you Ed to sit zazen.  I simply mean 
that thinking about things and experiencing things are different.  Even 
experiencing thinking is different from thinking about thinking.  I may have 
been hoping to let the lurkers know my observation that sittting zazen does 
make the shift in attention easier, so I notice the experiencing before it is 
covered up in thinking easier when I've sat recently).  

I certainly enjoy the to and fro of verbal interchanges.  

PS  The eat the peach/scrutinize the picture of the peach is a reference to a 
Dogen essay, where the title is actual something more along the lines of a bowl 
of rice or a picture of a bowl of rice, not a peach.  

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, ED <> wrote:


Scrutinizing the peach and biting into it are not mutually exclusive choices 
for different points in time.

The 'choice' one makes for any moment in time is whatever appears to oneself to 
be the most appropriate choice for that moment.
Almost anyone here could give others repetitious advice on how to run their 
lives, and their intentions, like those of fundamentalist religionists, 
would no doubt be motivated by good intentions; but, guided by current cultural 
mores, at least in English-speaking countries, most abstain from such 
well-intentioned speech.

--- In, Maria Lopez <flordel...@...> wrote:
> Indeed Chris.  We always have a choice. 

> --- On Sun, 9/1/11, Chris Austin-Lane ch...@... wrote:
> To eat the peach or make do with the picture of a lovely peach. It is a daily 
> choice we face. 

> On Jan 8, 2011 11:18 PM, "Maria Lopez" flordel...@... wrote:
> Much, much short cut to  eat the peach rather than to have the poetry and 
> much more often the speculation by the ones who read a lot about  what look 
> like the taste of the peach but never tried, tasted or even see a peach in 
> their life.  






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