Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I know I did one hour later when I realized my question was foolish, at least foolish to ask that before trying exactly what you wrote... let's say I was too tired, ok? ;) Too much World of Warcraft I suppose ... 2007/1/29, John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 10:31:11AM +0100, Thibouille wrote: Mmm I might program just that but it will not come before a time and would be specific to Pentax (at first, at least). BTW anybody knows where to find EXIF specifications ? Well, the two most obvious things to do would be: 1) Try browsing to www.exif.org or 2) Type EXIF specifications into a Google search. Either of these would have produced for you the answer you want; the very first result from Google is a pointer to www.exif.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Mmm I might program just that but it will not come before a time and would be specific to Pentax (at first, at least). BTW anybody knows where to find EXIF specifications ? 2007/1/28, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyone know of an EXIF editor that will allow you to insert/edit *all* the EXIF tags? I'm looking for something to do this and everything that I've tried so far (admittedly not much) only permits editing of a few things like dates. I want to be able to change camera data, ISO, everything. The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 28/01/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know of an EXIF editor that will allow you to insert/edit *all* the EXIF tags? I'm looking for something to do this and everything that I've tried so far (admittedly not much) only permits editing of a few things like dates. I want to be able to change camera data, ISO, everything. The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) Hi Mark, I've used ExifUtils for this. It certainly allows you to set camera make and model, focal length, exposure and ISO and much more. www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ (for windows linux or osx) Mind you, it's a command line utility so may not be ideal for some. Cheers, Eric. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 10:31:11AM +0100, Thibouille wrote: Mmm I might program just that but it will not come before a time and would be specific to Pentax (at first, at least). BTW anybody knows where to find EXIF specifications ? Well, the two most obvious things to do would be: 1) Try browsing to www.exif.org or 2) Type EXIF specifications into a Google search. Either of these would have produced for you the answer you want; the very first result from Google is a pointer to www.exif.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I will resume C++ as being a layer over C but half-broken due tu compatibility reason with C whoch is itself ASM with a layer supposed to let it look like a normal language but really is only ASM. Well that's how I see it. But C++ is not that difficult to read, if you rememer you read a sort of object-oriented (more or less) ASM with C syntax (again: morer or less). Crystel clear isn't it ? -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I will resume C++ as being a layer over C but half-broken due tu compatibility reason with C whoch is itself ASM with a layer supposed to let it look like a normal language but really is only ASM. Speaking of unparseable... :) -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Cory, you definitely did not read Leo Tolstoy in original form. Half a page of printed text being a single sentence is not uncommon. Compared to that, everything else is just three word sentence ;-). On 1/28/07, Cory Papenfuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will resume C++ as being a layer over C but half-broken due tu compatibility reason with C whoch is itself ASM with a layer supposed to let it look like a normal language but really is only ASM. Speaking of unparseable... :) -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Thibouille wrote: I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Exif/ipct collecting from files? How about a full Exif for pentax cameras, including maker's marks? I've not seen anything like that before. Might be suitable for an undergrad kind of thing, but might be too light weight for MS or PhD. -Lon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Tolstoy has nothing on Victor Hugo! -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 28 January 2007 14:44 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy? Cory, you definitely did not read Leo Tolstoy in original form. Half a page of printed text being a single sentence is not uncommon. Compared to that, everything else is just three word sentence ;-). On 1/28/07, Cory Papenfuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will resume C++ as being a layer over C but half-broken due tu compatibility reason with C whoch is itself ASM with a layer supposed to let it look like a normal language but really is only ASM. Speaking of unparseable... :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Do you read French??? I thought you were from that island, what is its name again? ;-) On 1/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tolstoy has nothing on Victor Hugo! -- Bob -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Grande Bretagne? Yes, I have even read some of Victor Hugo's poetry, as well as his ordinately long-winded prose, in French. Give me Flaubert any day. Mind you, most of the late 19th century authors remind me of Hoare's comments about COBOL: It aimed at readability but unfortunately achieved only prolixity -- Bob C++: an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog -- Steve Taylor, 1998 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 28 January 2007 15:48 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy? Do you read French??? I thought you were from that island, what is its name again? ;-) On 1/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tolstoy has nothing on Victor Hugo! -- Bob -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Anyone know of an EXIF editor that will allow you to insert/edit *all* the EXIF tags? I'm looking for something to do this and everything that I've tried so far (admittedly not much) only permits editing of a few things like dates. I want to be able to change camera data, ISO, everything. The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
ExifTool. http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/index.html On Sun, Jan 28, 2007 at 05:35:16PM -0500, Mark Roberts wrote: Anyone know of an EXIF editor that will allow you to insert/edit *all* the EXIF tags? I'm looking for something to do this and everything that I've tried so far (admittedly not much) only permits editing of a few things like dates. I want to be able to change camera data, ISO, everything. The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
ExifTool. http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/index.html Beat me to it. Exiftool will pretty much let you read/write whatever you want... of course if the tags are unknown and/or proprietary you'll have to do it as raw data. For normal things like ISO, etc it should be just fine. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
In case anyone's interested, here's one example (check the EXIF data): http://www.robertstech.com/temp/7d501705.jpg Mark Roberts wrote: The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 10:13:02PM -0800, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Well, my hat's off to both you and Boris. C++ is simply impenetrable to me. I find it a seriously damaged, bloated language with too much overloaded stuff added to support high level features . . . I'd agree with that. But you don't have to use all that stuff. I'd estimate that I use perhaps 25% of the features most of the time, and another 25% of the features some of the time. That lets me do what I want to do, without making my code totally incomprehensible. But enough of this form of geekiness for me. Taken any pictures lately? Sure. At least once a week I make myself find the time. http://www.jfwaf.com/PAW/index.php?style=1 or http://www.jfwaf.com/PAW/index.php?style=2 I'm still trying to decide which style I prefer (and also working on making more of the code database driven, rather than hard coded) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Mark, Anyone know of an EXIF editor that will allow you to insert/edit *all* the EXIF tags? I'm looking for something to do this and everything that I've tried so far (admittedly not much) only permits editing of a few things like dates. I want to be able to change camera data, ISO, everything. The reason for this weird request is that I'm currently sending material so a soon-to-be-public online photo gallery and their image submission system checks the EXIF before this stuff before accepting images. Naturally, the JPEG's from my scanned 645 negatives don't comply... What I've done so far is to open both the JPEG from the 645 neg scan and and one from a K10D shot in Photoshop, then copy the 645 image and paste it onto the K10D shot, flatten and save. This gives me the 645 image with K10D EXIF data. I open this file in a hex editor and edit the EXIF data there. You can see why I want a proper EXIF editor now, can't you? ;-) Perhaps we shall introduce a notion of editing distortion? I must say that the immediate reaction to the process you described was a word distorted pounding hard in my head... I wonder if scanning the negative in full, including that imprint with exposure information just outside the frame would correct the distortion? :-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Not too sure about that. I had an excellent training in programming all those years ago. In my first job as a programmer I (and my colleagues who joined before me) where handed some standard specs on day one, pointed towards the cupboard full of manuals, and told to come back in a few months when I'd written all the programs in assembler. After that we wrote a mix of COBOL and assembler. One of my colleagues, just for the helluvit, wrote an assembler program which he then translated into a large string constant which he coded into the Working Storage of a COBOL program. The first instruction of the COBOL program was a branch to the start of Working Storage, where it then executed the constant as a program. Very clever, but not exactly a maintenance programmer's dream. Given the time when it was envisioned... Well, one of the key insights of von Neumann (?) was the equivalence of data and program, so we should expect that someone would make use of the idea. In fact, I think even Turing may have done so. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 27 January 2007 05:47 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy? Peter, P. J. Alling wrote: IIRC LISP came first. I find it's notation annoying at best and impenetrable at worst. C and C++ were elegant, until such things a Templates, (with their particularly un-C like syntax), were grafted onto the language. Now ForTran that was man's language. Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Given the time when it was envisioned... C is cool, but from totally different perspective. C++ is just monstrous. I think C++ is actually a Hummer H1 of programming languages. You can drive to the super market with it, and you can also go all the way off-road. And if you handle it right and give it proper maintenance, it will not disappoint you. Lisp on the other hand is like a glider - taking you from A to B in a gentle breeze. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:59:05 -0500, John Francis wrote: Writing a utility that can perform wildcard and/or directory tree operations in a cross-platform manner will be difficult enough. If he will be using 'C' I can supply a generic wildcard/treewalk function that uses a callback function that I use on DOS, OS/2 Windows and Linux ... Regards, JvW -- Jan van Wijk; http://www.dfsee.com/gallery -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Given the time when it was envisioned... I've never coded it, but I've seen it. They syntax makes it impenetrable... too many parenthesis. C is cool, but from totally different perspective. C++ is just monstrous. I think C++ is actually a Hummer H1 of programming languages. You can drive to the super market with it, and you can also go all the way off-road. And if you handle it right and give it proper maintenance, it will not disappoint you. Lisp on the other hand is like a glider - taking you from A to B in a gentle breeze. I don't code much, and when I do it's generally low-level hardware-in-the-loop, realtime stuff. For that, C is about perfect IMO... all the power and flexibility of assembly, with the ease of use of... assembly. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Cory Papenfuss wrote: I don't code much, and when I do it's generally low-level hardware-in-the-loop, realtime stuff. For that, C is about perfect IMO... all the power and flexibility of assembly, with the ease of use of... assembly. C is assembly in a whore's outfit. That's what I love about it. ;-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I don't code much, and when I do it's generally low-level hardware-in-the-loop, realtime stuff. For that, C is about perfect IMO... all the power and flexibility of assembly, with the ease of use of... assembly. C is assembly in a whore's outfit. That's what I love about it. ;-) Beautiful analogy... :) -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't care about beauty, I care about readability and understandability. I find well written, well formatted Lisp to be quite readable. Same for C, Pascal, BASIC, and even FORTRAN up to a point. Even good assembly language can be readable. C++ gives me a headache to read, as did Ada, COBOL, FORTH and a few others. G On Jan 27, 2007, at 2:17 AM, Bob W wrote: Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:40:22AM -0800, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't care about beauty, I care about readability and understandability. I find well written, well formatted Lisp to be quite readable. Same for C, Pascal, BASIC, and even FORTRAN up to a point. Even good assembly language can be readable. C++ gives me a headache to read, as did Ada, COBOL, FORTH and a few others. G That's strange - I find precisely the reverse to be true. Well-written C++ makes it very easy to see what is going on; the structure and logic flow of any part of the program are very clear, and not obscured by messy implementation details. All that sort of stuff can be hidden inside object methods (and with inlining there's not even a performance penalty). Mind you, the important qualifier there is well-written. And trying to make sense of something like the C++ standard template library is not an easy task; you need to understand just about all the nuances and ramifications of the language before diving into that. But understanding a program that *uses* the template library is a whole lot easier. Sometimes, in fact, it can be *too* easy. If the abstraction is done well a C++ program can appear deceptively simple. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 27, 2007, at 10:08 AM, John Francis wrote: ... Mind you, the important qualifier there is well-written. ... Aside from the fact that I think you're the *only* person who ever said to me that they found C++ easy to read, I agree with this part 100%. That said, it's easy to make a mess in nearly any language, including English. ;-) Do you find it easy to write well-written C++? I never could: no matter how I tried, I could not find a way to format the code that didn't give me a headache at some point or another. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/27/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Not too sure about that. I had an excellent training in programming all those years ago. In my first job as a programmer I (and my colleagues who joined before me) where handed some standard specs on day one, pointed towards the cupboard full of manuals, and told to come back in a few months when I'd written all the programs in assembler. After that we wrote a mix of COBOL and assembler. One of my colleagues, just for the helluvit, wrote an assembler program which he then translated into a large string constant which he coded into the Working Storage of a COBOL program. The first instruction of the COBOL program was a branch to the start of Working Storage, where it then executed the constant as a program. Very clever, but not exactly a maintenance programmer's dream. Yes, thats ugly. The Data=Program paradigm of Lisp is not like this. For example, I could build and save a bunch of lambda expressions (mini functions) as data, then pass that data as the mechanism to get specific things sorted to a quick sort function, or any other function that can take this type of executable data. Its a very powerful mechanism and is used frequently and is not considered kludgey. A typical use was to write out the data out as a program, and when you loaded it back, you just evaluated it to get the original data, no parsing necessary. Given the time when it was envisioned... Well, one of the key insights of von Neumann (?) was the equivalence of data and program, so we should expect that someone would make use of the idea. In fact, I think even Turing may have done so. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 27 January 2007 05:47 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy? Peter, P. J. Alling wrote: IIRC LISP came first. I find it's notation annoying at best and impenetrable at worst. C and C++ were elegant, until such things a Templates, (with their particularly un-C like syntax), were grafted onto the language. Now ForTran that was man's language. Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Given the time when it was envisioned... C is cool, but from totally different perspective. C++ is just monstrous. I think C++ is actually a Hummer H1 of programming languages. You can drive to the super market with it, and you can also go all the way off-road. And if you handle it right and give it proper maintenance, it will not disappoint you. Lisp on the other hand is like a glider - taking you from A to B in a gentle breeze. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/27/07, John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 09:40:22AM -0800, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't care about beauty, I care about readability and understandability. I find well written, well formatted Lisp to be quite readable. Same for C, Pascal, BASIC, and even FORTRAN up to a point. Even good assembly language can be readable. C++ gives me a headache to read, as did Ada, COBOL, FORTH and a few others. G That's strange - I find precisely the reverse to be true. Well-written C++ makes it very easy to see what is going on; the structure and logic flow of any part of the program are very clear, and not obscured by messy implementation details. All that sort of stuff can be hidden inside object methods (and with inlining there's not even a performance penalty). Mind you, the important qualifier there is well-written. Not only that, you have to worry about getting too clever with operators. I.e. a = b; can have some unintended consequences. Novices can get carried away with C++'s standard template library and end up with a performance nightmare. And trying to make sense of something like the C++ standard template library is not an easy task; you need to understand just about all the nuances and ramifications of the language before diving into that. But understanding a program that *uses* the template library is a whole lot easier. Sometimes, in fact, it can be *too* easy. If the abstraction is done well a C++ program can appear deceptively simple. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 01:22:24PM -0800, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 27, 2007, at 10:08 AM, John Francis wrote: ... Mind you, the important qualifier there is well-written. ... Aside from the fact that I think you're the *only* person who ever said to me that they found C++ easy to read, I agree with this part 100%. That said, it's easy to make a mess in nearly any language, including English. ;-) Do you find it easy to write well-written C++? I never could: no matter how I tried, I could not find a way to format the code that didn't give me a headache at some point or another. Writing clear, concise code is never easy. But if you start out with a well-written piece of C code with clear distinctions between functional elements and sub-tasks, and a clearly-defined API for tasks that cross module boundaries, it's not too difficult to shuffle the code around into C++ code which is at least as easy to understand as the original C. Fortunately for me, that pretty much matches how I design and write code. I'll start off with some fairly straightforward linear code that performs the task in question. Then I'll look for chunks of code that perform pretty much the same kind of subtask, and see if I can abstract them into methods operating on a class object (and maybe add a subclass/superclass to handle variations). Basically if you have the kind of mind that's good at spotting patterns you should be able to write fairly good C++ code. I've been doing object-oriented programming since before the term was invented; for just one example, kernel I/O programming (back in the days before Unix came to dominate the mainframe world). The various calls between the core kernel and the device drivers are really just methods, and the device data block is an object. In fact I/O all levels, from the kernel to the usel-level APIs, is a task which seems a perfect fit for object-oriented code. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Godfrey, it seems I haven't raised my hand here So here I am - one hand up - yes C++ is easy to read if a person who wrote it *knew * what they was writing and they *knew* they were writing for a another person, not the compiler ;-). Boris Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 27, 2007, at 10:08 AM, John Francis wrote: ... Mind you, the important qualifier there is well-written. ... Aside from the fact that I think you're the *only* person who ever said to me that they found C++ easy to read, I agree with this part 100%. That said, it's easy to make a mess in nearly any language, including English. ;-) Do you find it easy to write well-written C++? I never could: no matter how I tried, I could not find a way to format the code that didn't give me a headache at some point or another. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Well, my hat's off to both you and Boris. I was writing OO code in the early-middle 1980s, taught several classes on the subject, and was an OOPSLA conferree. I won several citations for code style at various times with both linear and OO projects. C++ is simply impenetrable to me. I find it a seriously damaged, bloated language with too much overloaded stuff added to support high level features that are not at all intuitive or sensible in their side effects, and it is very very difficult to debug properly. Having worked for a long time in very close conjunction with the compiler/ linker/debugger development team at Apple, I know just how much most of the people who work on the C++ language despise it too. Bjorn ought to be ashamed. But enough of this form of geekiness for me. Taken any pictures lately? G On Jan 27, 2007, at 7:39 PM, John Francis wrote: Writing clear, concise code is never easy. But if you start out with a well-written piece of C code with clear distinctions between functional elements and sub-tasks, and a clearly-defined API for tasks that cross module boundaries, it's not too difficult to shuffle the code around into C++ code which is at least as easy to understand as the original C. Fortunately for me, that pretty much matches how I design and write code. I'll start off with some fairly straightforward linear code that performs the task in question. Then I'll look for chunks of code that perform pretty much the same kind of subtask, and see if I can abstract them into methods operating on a class object (and maybe add a subclass/superclass to handle variations). Basically if you have the kind of mind that's good at spotting patterns you should be able to write fairly good C++ code. I've been doing object-oriented programming since before the term was invented; for just one example, kernel I/O programming (back in the days before Unix came to dominate the mainframe world). The various calls between the core kernel and the device drivers are really just methods, and the device data block is an object. In fact I/O all levels, from the kernel to the usel-level APIs, is a task which seems a perfect fit for object-oriented code. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Godfrey, LOL ... My personal predilections come into play. I'd much rather write straightforward C code than any kind of Java or C++ ... mostly because I'm much more familiar with it and it has always proved to be far more portable and easier to compile and link on any system if I was rigorous about not using compiler/linker specific language extension features. For similar reasons, the step to Objective-C is much easier for me than shifting to Java or C++. Objective-C is just a small, tidy set of extensions to the basic C language that allows for nicely encapsulated object oriented design. Forgive this digression into my dark, geeky past ... ;-) You're hereby granted an indulgence (whatever was given to people so that they can sin in the dark days of inquisition) to write as many plain C lines as you want. Indeed, a masterful C programmer is a rarity these days. I like C++ 'cause I know how to drive this car, mostly, but your point of view is very interesting and valid. My first professional work was done in plain C. I don't remember having any difficulties in expressing myself as compared to modern C++. Nor do I have any difficulties now though. Well, you're older than me, aren't you? ;-) Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Robert, there is a program called Wega. It is a viewer actually. As for statistics and the other stuff you suggested - it does more or less just that. I accept your opinion about software engineering here. My proposal about Java was directed more or less towards the same goal. Boris Gonz wrote: You didnt specify what level of effort you are talking about. 3 man months, 6 man months, a man year? Also the expectations. Is this a single course project, Bachelor's thesis, Masters? With all due respect to others who have gotten into a discussion of the merits of portability, language features, etc. I would not even worry right now about these aspects. Assuming a Bachelor's thesis, 3 man month level of effort, I would just go with the language that gets you from A to Z the quickest. If you are thinking commercialization later on, re-write it in the appropriate language (probably C++). If you are thinking that it would be useful to you and to others, then the quickie language is still the best. As to suggestions, the EXIF database sounds like a very decent suggestion. I.e. show me thumbs of all the pics I have taken with my FA85 1.4. That would be cool. Or gather statistics. What is the distribution of pics I took at each ISO (this was a recent discussion on this mail list). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Thibouille, I have a proposal but indeed it requires an approval of another club member. Perhaps you could pair with John Francis and come up with nice GUI and may be handful of extensions for his program that analyzes Pentax RAW file headers. Ultimately, this could becomes an open source project where all of us could invest a bit of their effort. But I do realize this is just a crazy idea and of course John is the one who should be asked for permission. Cheers... Boris Thibouille wrote: I will repsond to a couple points.. * It is indeed academic: it is a final evaluation of a bachelor which means 3 years studies (precision because those things tends to change quite much from country to country). * The usual software student do provide (because in line with the school program so quite logical) is always a management of this or that like CD/DVD collection, DVD renting management, hotel personel/room management and whatever you can think of those kind of blabla renting... Quite boring to say the least. Even teachers are fed up ;) * At first I planned to do a computer asset management. Boring but useful for my work. I'm teacher but part of my schedule is dedicated to hardware/software management for the whole school (4 rooms with about 20 computers / room). * A couple days ago I thought I was more interested into photography and I'd be more motivated creating such a software. * Concerning the time I have: I need to give a draft (a little presentation so bascaly just to tell them what I intend to produce) by monday. The final software should be given to them with usual ton of papers ;) early november 2007 and public defense should be around december 2007. Time I have but I'm working full time as well at the same time. Hope it gives a beter idea of the circumstances... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 26, 2007, at 1:10 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: ... Well, you're older than me, aren't you? ;-) Based on the self portrait you posted recently, yes. By a bit... G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/26/07, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, there is a program called Wega. It is a viewer actually. Sounds interesting, I'll check into it. As for statistics and the other stuff you suggested - it does more or less just that. The statistics part I suggested was more or less a benefit of collecting the data, the real functionality was basically what others had suggested, I.e. finding, sorting, viewing the images. Statistics would be interesting, but by itself might be very limited in utility. I accept your opinion about software engineering here. My proposal about Java was directed more or less towards the same goal. Oh dont get me wrong. I think Java is a great prototyping language for the kind of project he is attempting. It has lots of stuff built in (like garbage collecting), and there are lots of useful libraries and utilities out there for him to tap into. Myself, I'm a Lisp bigot, it was the second language I learned after BASIC, and I had to unlearn all the ugly things about BASIC that made it hard to use an elegant language like Lisp. Boris Gonz wrote: You didnt specify what level of effort you are talking about. 3 man months, 6 man months, a man year? Also the expectations. Is this a single course project, Bachelor's thesis, Masters? With all due respect to others who have gotten into a discussion of the merits of portability, language features, etc. I would not even worry right now about these aspects. Assuming a Bachelor's thesis, 3 man month level of effort, I would just go with the language that gets you from A to Z the quickest. If you are thinking commercialization later on, re-write it in the appropriate language (probably C++). If you are thinking that it would be useful to you and to others, then the quickie language is still the best. As to suggestions, the EXIF database sounds like a very decent suggestion. I.e. show me thumbs of all the pics I have taken with my FA85 1.4. That would be cool. Or gather statistics. What is the distribution of pics I took at each ISO (this was a recent discussion on this mail list). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, there is a program called Wega. It is a viewer actually. Sounds interesting, I'll check into it. As for statistics and the other stuff you suggested - it does more or less just that. The statistics part I suggested was more or less a benefit of collecting the data, the real functionality was basically what others had suggested, I.e. finding, sorting, viewing the images. Statistics would be interesting, but by itself might be very limited in utility. I accept your opinion about software engineering here. My proposal about Java was directed more or less towards the same goal. Oh dont get me wrong. I think Java is a great prototyping language for the kind of project he is attempting. It has lots of stuff built in (like garbage collecting), and there are lots of useful libraries and utilities out there for him to tap into. Myself, I'm a Lisp bigot, it was the second language I learned after BASIC, and I had to unlearn all the ugly things about BASIC that made it hard to use an elegant language like Lisp. Boris Gonz wrote: You didnt specify what level of effort you are talking about. 3 man months, 6 man months, a man year? Also the expectations. Is this a single course project, Bachelor's thesis, Masters? With all due respect to others who have gotten into a discussion of the merits of portability, language features, etc. I would not even worry right now about these aspects. Assuming a Bachelor's thesis, 3 man month level of effort, I would just go with the language that gets you from A to Z the quickest. If you are thinking commercialization later on, re-write it in the appropriate language (probably C++). If you are thinking that it would be useful to you and to others, then the quickie language is still the best. As to suggestions, the EXIF database sounds like a very decent suggestion. I.e. show me thumbs of all the pics I have taken with my FA85 1.4. That would be cool. Or gather statistics. What is the distribution of pics I took at each ISO (this was a recent discussion on this mail list). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, there is a program called Wega. It is a viewer actually. Sounds interesting, I'll check into it. As for statistics and the other stuff you suggested - it does more or less just that. The statistics part I suggested was more or less a benefit of collecting the data, the real functionality was basically what others had suggested, I.e. finding, sorting, viewing the images. Statistics would be interesting, but by itself might be very limited in utility. I accept your opinion about software engineering here. My proposal about Java was directed more or less towards the same goal. Oh dont get me wrong. I think Java is a great prototyping language for the kind of project he is attempting. It has lots of stuff built in (like garbage collecting), and there are lots of useful libraries and utilities out there for him to tap into. Myself, I'm a Lisp bigot, it was the second language I learned after BASIC, and I had to unlearn all the ugly things about BASIC that made it hard to use an elegant language like Lisp. Boris Gonz wrote: You didnt specify what level of effort you are talking about. 3 man months, 6 man months, a man year? Also the expectations. Is this a single course project, Bachelor's thesis, Masters? With all due respect to others who have gotten into a discussion of the merits of portability, language features, etc. I would not even worry right now about these aspects. Assuming a Bachelor's thesis, 3 man month level of effort, I would just go with the language that gets you from A to Z the quickest. If you are thinking commercialization later on, re-write it in the appropriate language (probably C++). If you are thinking that it would be useful to you and to others, then the quickie language is still the best. As to suggestions, the EXIF database sounds like a very decent suggestion. I.e. show me thumbs of all the pics I have taken with my FA85 1.4. That would be cool. Or gather statistics. What is the distribution of pics I took at each ISO (this was a recent discussion on this mail list). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/23/07, Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, choice of programming language and envrionment will be harder. I have no experience in Java (but it looks like it should be doable). I'm more C++/Delphi. Graphical library for the GUI part will also be tricky. Any recommendation for a Win/OSX/Linux (or at least Win/Linux) environment? I know Delphi/Kylix and BuilderX but none of those will allow OSX development. I'd like to make a small recommendation. I've taken a few programming courses (C, Fortran and COBOL (yuck!)), but do not consider myself a programmer. The continued development of your application would benefit from an openly available language, and not something that's locked down by a vendor. Programming in a language like C or Java or even Python or Perl will make portability possible later on. My apologies if this has already been suggested in an earlier reply. Looking forward to the end result! -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/26/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) What is FORTRAN, Alex? BTW, as much as most hate it, I rather like FORTRAN. If you can't do it in Fortran, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing. Please see: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html ;) -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Robert, this time I am totally on your side. Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. I think that Lisp is *the* most beautiful programming language. I have a bit of experience of educational lisp programming including e-lisp of Emacs. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) G Godders, every progra-toddler knows that Fortran was the first symbolic programming language after machine code and assembly. Lisp came in the second ;-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 26, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) Godders, every progra-toddler knows that Fortran was the first symbolic programming language after machine code and assembly. Lisp came in the second ;-). LOL ... well, it's not quite that simple. :-) FORTRAN (FORmula TRANSlation) was a high level language effort for numerical processing closer to human language for ease of use that started at IBM in 1954 but was first published for commercial use in 1957 ... prior to that, it was lab use only: in development by the authors. By 1960-1961, it had been updated to FORTRAN II. LISP (algebraic LISt Processing) in its basic form was developed at Dartmouth in 1956 and remained primarily a research language tool for AI work, although shared and used at several different institutions, until by 1960 a version conforming to Lisp1.5 had become the primary dialect. So they were developed at about the same time, although from entirely different motivations. Arguably, LISP was in use outside of its original point of creation prior to FORTRAN being available for anyone other than the authors to use and could be said to have been first, and just as strong an argument would state that FORTRAN's original concept and design predated LISP by as much as two years. Fun stuff. Now to return to our regularly scheduled photo geekery. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
IIRC LISP came first. I find it's notation annoying at best and impenetrable at worst. C and C++ were elegant, until such things a Templates, (with their particularly un-C like syntax), were grafted onto the language. Now ForTran that was man's language. Scott Loveless wrote: On 1/26/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) What is FORTRAN, Alex? BTW, as much as most hate it, I rather like FORTRAN. If you can't do it in Fortran, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing. Please see: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html ;) -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Damn, should have looked it up. Boris Liberman wrote: Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) G Godders, every progra-toddler knows that Fortran was the first symbolic programming language after machine code and assembly. Lisp came in the second ;-). Boris -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 01:39:46PM -0500, Scott Loveless wrote: On 1/26/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) What is FORTRAN, Alex? BTW, as much as most hate it, I rather like FORTRAN. If you can't do it in Fortran, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing. Please see: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html Not bad, albeit a bit dated. I note, in particular, the throwaway line about nobody having found a use for Computer Graphics. Personally I always preferred the bumper-sticker slogan: Real Programmers can write FORTRAN in any language (sometimes seen with assembly code instead of FORTRAN) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Personally I always preferred the bumper-sticker slogan: Real Programmers can write FORTRAN in any language (sometimes seen with assembly code instead of FORTRAN) there's a lot of truth in that. If you can program in one procedural language, you can program in them all. Similarly, if you can program in one declarative language, you can program in them all. I would add that being able to program in a declarative language means you can easily program in a procedural language, and probably rather better than someone who doesn't think declaratively. Conversely being able to program procedurally does not imply that you will ever be able to program well declaratively. Not quite such a snappy soundbite as yours, though! Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I worked with them both, sorta, in 1965-66 timeframe. My sense is that FORTRAN was the new kid on the block... On Jan 26, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 11:13:06AM +0200, Boris Liberman wrote: Thibouille, I have a proposal but indeed it requires an approval of another club member. Perhaps you could pair with John Francis and come up with nice GUI and may be handful of extensions for his program that analyzes Pentax RAW file headers. Ultimately, this could becomes an open source project where all of us could invest a bit of their effort. But I do realize this is just a crazy idea and of course John is the one who should be asked for permission. Whil I don't have any objection (the source code was put up for any use people chose) I don't think this is a particularly valuable idea. If Thibouille follows the suggestions (which I heartily endorse) to write a utility to extract EXIF tags and store them in a database then presumably MakerNote (and/or DNGPrivateData) information would be stored as well - it seems pointless to limit the EXIF extraction to just a few selected fields. About the only suggestions I would make (and which I could help with) would be to convert MakerNote tags to DNGPrivateData tags (rather as is done in the Adobe Raw Converter, although I'd suggest using a tag layout that matches the one in Pentax DNG files), and to create an EXIF LensInformation tag from the Lens ID in the Pentax private data. Writing a utility that can perform wildcard and/or directory tree operations in a cross-platform manner will be difficult enough. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IIRC LISP came first. I find it's notation annoying at best and impenetrable at worst. Its one of those you get it, or you dont type of languages. In our first semester of Computer Science, when we were introduced, there were lots of people in the first category, mainly they came from Fortran or Basic backgrounds. I struggled until it suddenly clicked when we had to write a program to do symbolic differentiation. C and C++ were elegant, until such things a Templates, (with their particularly un-C like syntax), were grafted onto the language. Now ForTran that was man's language. Scott Loveless wrote: On 1/26/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:44 AM, Gonz wrote: On 1/26/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only a Lisp bigot would call it an elegant language. Its IMO one of the truly unique and elegant languages with elegant roots. The data = program paradigm is one of the concepts it introduced and its too bad that it wasnt adopted by other languages, i.e. lambda is beautiful. Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) What is FORTRAN, Alex? BTW, as much as most hate it, I rather like FORTRAN. If you can't do it in Fortran, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing. Please see: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html ;) -- -- The more I know of men, the more I like my dog. -- Anne Louise Germaine de Stael -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On 26/01/07, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, as much as most hate it, I rather like FORTRAN. If you can't do it in Fortran, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing. Please see: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html ;) LOL, that brought a smile to my face, and had a link to The Story of Mel which I'd come accross before http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/mel.html In the much the same vein is this (equally old?) story of UNIX geekery http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/recovery.html Eric. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Well, you're obviously right. Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Jan 26, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Ok, geeky trivia time ... which came first, LISP or FORTRAN? And no peeking at google.com... ;-) Godders, every progra-toddler knows that Fortran was the first symbolic programming language after machine code and assembly. Lisp came in the second ;-). LOL ... well, it's not quite that simple. :-) FORTRAN (FORmula TRANSlation) was a high level language effort for numerical processing closer to human language for ease of use that started at IBM in 1954 but was first published for commercial use in 1957 ... prior to that, it was lab use only: in development by the authors. By 1960-1961, it had been updated to FORTRAN II. LISP (algebraic LISt Processing) in its basic form was developed at Dartmouth in 1956 and remained primarily a research language tool for AI work, although shared and used at several different institutions, until by 1960 a version conforming to Lisp1.5 had become the primary dialect. So they were developed at about the same time, although from entirely different motivations. Arguably, LISP was in use outside of its original point of creation prior to FORTRAN being available for anyone other than the authors to use and could be said to have been first, and just as strong an argument would state that FORTRAN's original concept and design predated LISP by as much as two years. Fun stuff. Now to return to our regularly scheduled photo geekery. For some reason it pops up in my memory (probably totally wrong though) that Lambda-calculus was invented circa 1948. But that's not the point. The point is though, that no other programming language invented thereafter wasn't as heavy as original fortran (I programmed a bit in fortran-4, what a cludge) and as elegant and light as lisp. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Peter, P. J. Alling wrote: IIRC LISP came first. I find it's notation annoying at best and impenetrable at worst. C and C++ were elegant, until such things a Templates, (with their particularly un-C like syntax), were grafted onto the language. Now ForTran that was man's language. Lisp is truly beautiful, you have to try to see its beauty. The concept of a program that can write itself at run-time and then be evaluated (executed) is truly brilliant. Given the time when it was envisioned... C is cool, but from totally different perspective. C++ is just monstrous. I think C++ is actually a Hummer H1 of programming languages. You can drive to the super market with it, and you can also go all the way off-road. And if you handle it right and give it proper maintenance, it will not disappoint you. Lisp on the other hand is like a glider - taking you from A to B in a gentle breeze. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I will repsond to a couple points.. * It is indeed academic: it is a final evaluation of a bachelor which means 3 years studies (precision because those things tends to change quite much from country to country). * The usual software student do provide (because in line with the school program so quite logical) is always a management of this or that like CD/DVD collection, DVD renting management, hotel personel/room management and whatever you can think of those kind of blabla renting... Quite boring to say the least. Even teachers are fed up ;) * At first I planned to do a computer asset management. Boring but useful for my work. I'm teacher but part of my schedule is dedicated to hardware/software management for the whole school (4 rooms with about 20 computers / room). * A couple days ago I thought I was more interested into photography and I'd be more motivated creating such a software. * Concerning the time I have: I need to give a draft (a little presentation so bascaly just to tell them what I intend to produce) by monday. The final software should be given to them with usual ton of papers ;) early november 2007 and public defense should be around december 2007. Time I have but I'm working full time as well at the same time. Hope it gives a beter idea of the circumstances... -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
This isn't a suggestion, but I'd love a colour manged web browser for Windows. Cheers, Dave On 1/24/07, Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Java is an interesting solution to cross platform implementation language, but a can of worms in many ways. Java language interpreters installed on client systems seems to be all over the map version- wise, which affects compatibility, features, portability, etc. Writing and testing Java code gets complicated for this reason, and it doesn't save you from much effort if you want to produce an application which looks and works well for each particular OS platform. I have several commercially available applications written in Java. Only one or two of them are what I'd consider to be really good, the others do their job but are clunky for one reason or another. There's much more reason to write in Java for server-side applications, where the number of installations is much lower and the system administrators are knowledgeable enough to install and configure the correct version of the language interpreter. (I worked for Sun Microsystems for a couple of years in the Java development team doing licensee support, before my final stint at Apple working with the development tools team... I've seen the worst and the best of all of it.) G On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:47 PM, Boris Liberman wrote: Thibouille, if you want easy way of this burden, you may want to learn Java. If you know C++/Delphi, it will not be much of a problem. Then you can write your GUI and interface with OS low level in Java which theoretically should be cross platform. Otherwise, if you want to stick to C++, then what Godfrey suggested is a good idea, but it will require from you to keep in mind this original consideration of clean processing code and two additional layers of OS and GUI outside your processing. It is a challenge, but if you are after educational/academic program, then perhaps it is a bit of an over strain. I am not sure you ever mentioned your time frame. I still think that all-Java option needs to be considered seriously. Cheers. Boris Thibouille wrote: List weirdness I got your response to Godfrey message, got followinf Godfrey message but notthe first one to which your reponded... :| All those are pretty interesting idea I have to admit :) Now, choice of programming language and envrionment will be harder. I have no experience in Java (but it looks like it should be doable). I'm more C++/Delphi. Graphical library for the GUI part will also be tricky. Any recommendation for a Win/OSX/Linux (or at least Win/Linux) environment? I know Delphi/Kylix and BuilderX but none of those will allow OSX development. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Godfrey, my point being that Java can be used in order to create *reasonably* portable and *reasonably* cross platform code. After all we're talking educational project here, not fully blown industrial development effort. I agree with your analysis, but in order for Thibouille to concentrate on the problem in hand and not on surrounding technical issues (which are more valid for commercial project rather than for educational one) I think Java will do nicely. And again, I agree with what you're saying ;-). Boris Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Java is an interesting solution to cross platform implementation language, but a can of worms in many ways. Java language interpreters installed on client systems seems to be all over the map version- wise, which affects compatibility, features, portability, etc. Writing and testing Java code gets complicated for this reason, and it doesn't save you from much effort if you want to produce an application which looks and works well for each particular OS platform. I have several commercially available applications written in Java. Only one or two of them are what I'd consider to be really good, the others do their job but are clunky for one reason or another. There's much more reason to write in Java for server-side applications, where the number of installations is much lower and the system administrators are knowledgeable enough to install and configure the correct version of the language interpreter. (I worked for Sun Microsystems for a couple of years in the Java development team doing licensee support, before my final stint at Apple working with the development tools team... I've seen the worst and the best of all of it.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
You didnt specify what level of effort you are talking about. 3 man months, 6 man months, a man year? Also the expectations. Is this a single course project, Bachelor's thesis, Masters? With all due respect to others who have gotten into a discussion of the merits of portability, language features, etc. I would not even worry right now about these aspects. Assuming a Bachelor's thesis, 3 man month level of effort, I would just go with the language that gets you from A to Z the quickest. If you are thinking commercialization later on, re-write it in the appropriate language (probably C++). If you are thinking that it would be useful to you and to others, then the quickie language is still the best. As to suggestions, the EXIF database sounds like a very decent suggestion. I.e. show me thumbs of all the pics I have taken with my FA85 1.4. That would be cool. Or gather statistics. What is the distribution of pics I took at each ISO (this was a recent discussion on this mail list). rg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- Someone handed me a picture and said, This is a picture of me when I was younger. Every picture of you is when you were younger. ...Here's a picture of me when I'm older. Where'd you get that camera man? - Mitch Hedberg -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
LOL ... My personal predilections come into play. I'd much rather write straightforward C code than any kind of Java or C++ ... mostly because I'm much more familiar with it and it has always proved to be far more portable and easier to compile and link on any system if I was rigorous about not using compiler/linker specific language extension features. For similar reasons, the step to Objective-C is much easier for me than shifting to Java or C++. Objective-C is just a small, tidy set of extensions to the basic C language that allows for nicely encapsulated object oriented design. Forgive this digression into my dark, geeky past ... ;-) G On Jan 24, 2007, at 10:58 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Godfrey, my point being that Java can be used in order to create *reasonably* portable and *reasonably* cross platform code. After all we're talking educational project here, not fully blown industrial development effort. I agree with your analysis, but in order for Thibouille to concentrate on the problem in hand and not on surrounding technical issues (which are more valid for commercial project rather than for educational one) I think Java will do nicely. And again, I agree with what you're saying ;-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
How about a database to automatically catalog digital photo files on the computer using the embedded info with the only manual input being an optional caption? -graywolf Thibouille wrote: I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
An excellent computer science study exercise would be to write something that will digest a large volume of digital capture images' EXIF data. I'd like a utility like this to - store the significant bits of EXIF and IPTC data coordinated with file name and location for easy accessibility - possibly show a thumbnail of the image when the storage volume is on-line - allow editing captions, keywords, descriptions, copyright (IPTC basic data in other words) - present data about use habits: focal lengths, exposure modes, capture dates, exposure settings - display the above data in graphical or numerical form for ease of understanding And, for bonus points, design the code in a well-factored manner such that it is easily built with a platform-standard, quality GUI on the three most popular OS environments: Windows, Mac OS X, Linux. Much of the fundamental data access and analysis source is easily available to do the work here, the good part is to add some value to that source and show your stuff in the graphical analysis display, and design skills by allowing it to be used easily for multiple OS platform development. Godfrey On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:15 AM, Thibouille wrote: I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: An excellent computer science study exercise would be to write something that will digest a large volume of digital capture images' EXIF data. I'd like a utility like this to - store the significant bits of EXIF and IPTC data coordinated with file name and location for easy accessibility - possibly show a thumbnail of the image when the storage volume is on-line - allow editing captions, keywords, descriptions, copyright (IPTC basic data in other words) - present data about use habits: focal lengths, exposure modes, capture dates, exposure settings - display the above data in graphical or numerical form for ease of understanding Holy #$@! This is almost exactly what I was going to ask for. I'd add that the EXIF and IPTC editing should have a batch option to apply a given change to a lot of files in one operation. With digital, *management* of your files and data is becoming increasingly important. This is an area where I'd look for ideas and opportunities. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:50 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: An excellent computer science study exercise would be to write something that will digest a large volume of digital capture images' EXIF data. I'd like a utility like this to - store the significant bits of EXIF and IPTC data coordinated with file name and location for easy accessibility - possibly show a thumbnail of the image when the storage volume is on-line - allow editing captions, keywords, descriptions, copyright (IPTC basic data in other words) - present data about use habits: focal lengths, exposure modes, capture dates, exposure settings - display the above data in graphical or numerical form for ease of understanding Holy #$@! This is almost exactly what I was going to ask for. I'd add that the EXIF and IPTC editing should have a batch option to apply a given change to a lot of files in one operation. With digital, *management* of your files and data is becoming increasingly important. This is an area where I'd look for ideas and opportunities. DAM is a huge growth opportunity for photography (and music, and lots of other things...). For computer science studies, though, the most important part of the project is to display your expertise at designing the implementation to be transportable to multiple OS platforms. That's worth money to ANY software vendor. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
List weirdness I got your response to Godfrey message, got followinf Godfrey message but notthe first one to which your reponded... :| All those are pretty interesting idea I have to admit :) Now, choice of programming language and envrionment will be harder. I have no experience in Java (but it looks like it should be doable). I'm more C++/Delphi. Graphical library for the GUI part will also be tricky. Any recommendation for a Win/OSX/Linux (or at least Win/Linux) environment? I know Delphi/Kylix and BuilderX but none of those will allow OSX development. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
On Jan 23, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Thibouille wrote: List weirdness I got your response to Godfrey message, got followinf Godfrey message but notthe first one to which your reponded... :| All those are pretty interesting idea I have to admit :) Now, choice of programming language and envrionment will be harder. I have no experience in Java (but it looks like it should be doable). I'm more C++/Delphi. Graphical library for the GUI part will also be tricky. Any recommendation for a Win/OSX/Linux (or at least Win/Linux) environment? I know Delphi/Kylix and BuilderX but none of those will allow OSX development. I'd write the functional code as C or C++ language source without embedding UI and file system access into it. That should be 100% compatible with whatever GUI libraries, system IO libraries and graphics libraries you would use on all three platforms. On Mac OS X, write the system IO and User Interface using Objective-C and/or Objective-C++ and the supplied Cocoa interface libraries, using Apple's supplied development tools and libraries (Xcode and Interface Builder ... they are distributed as an optional installation with Mac OS X). It's a little easier to link C and Objective-C code, but either way works without too much effort. If you design your functional module correctly, it will go very very quickly. I'm not up on the best development tools and UI libraries for Windows or Linux, but the story should be similar for those OS environments. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Hi! Here is a something I planned to do sometime, but never got the time to actually implement: - Feed the software a bunch of DNG files (or other RAW format, but preferably DNG ;-) ) - It will scan each file, and based on lens identifier, focal length, approximate focusing distance, and aperture, set the appropriate values for chromatic aberration and vignetting. - The values are fed from a (small) lens database. The feature looks pretty like PTlens, but acts on DNG parameters that are directly used by ACR. - In a first version, the lens information could just be entered manually once per lens. In a more extensible version, a training system could be used to feed the system with new information: - Feed the tool with a picture from an unknown lens, it will apply nothing, and warn the user. - The user uses ACR to set the appropriate corrections to the image, then starts some training function, that reads back this information and stores a new sample of parameter values for this lens. - When analyzing a new image from a known lens, the software proposes correction values, based on samples already in the database, possibly by using an interpolation technique (e.g. if known values are known for 28mm and 50mm, try to guess a value for 35mm). If the user is dissatisfied by the result, she can fix the values in ACR and run the training function: a new point is added to the database. As the database is really small here, a lightweight implementation, such as SQLite, should be more than enough. Honestly I don't think a database is mandatory at all for this usage, but at least you meet your requirements. Of course, depending on the scale of your project, you might include this function into a bigger tool. Best regards Patrice Thibouille a écrit : I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Thibouille, why not try an images database? It's an interesting exercise, and tests both database design skills and GUI design. I did one and found the hardest part was incorporating thumbnails in the GUI without loading the images into the database! The additional benefit is, of course, you get to use it afterwards to keep track of your images... John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: Thibouille [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:15 AM Subject: Interest in developing a software around photograhy? I have to produce a software as a final evaluation of my computer sciences studies. Of course, nothing like a RAW converter etc. but maybe there a couple things which would be handy to have in a little software? Conversions? (focal length, DOF...) Inventory? (lenses, bodies, film, memory cards, bags, outfits, flahguns etc ...) Cataloguing software? Exif/ipct collecting from files? I dunno, I'm open to any idea. I know a couple utilities already exists. It is more a question of programming something which I find useful rather than trying to revolutionize anything. A Database is mandatory. Except that I probably can do almost anything but I'll stay rather simple (I mean... not gonna do a second PS ;) Thanks for your ideas ! -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille -- *ist-D,Z1,SuperA,KX,MX, P30t and KR-10x ;) ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Interest in developing a software around photograhy?
Thibouille, if you want easy way of this burden, you may want to learn Java. If you know C++/Delphi, it will not be much of a problem. Then you can write your GUI and interface with OS low level in Java which theoretically should be cross platform. Otherwise, if you want to stick to C++, then what Godfrey suggested is a good idea, but it will require from you to keep in mind this original consideration of clean processing code and two additional layers of OS and GUI outside your processing. It is a challenge, but if you are after educational/academic program, then perhaps it is a bit of an over strain. I am not sure you ever mentioned your time frame. I still think that all-Java option needs to be considered seriously. Cheers. Boris Thibouille wrote: List weirdness I got your response to Godfrey message, got followinf Godfrey message but notthe first one to which your reponded... :| All those are pretty interesting idea I have to admit :) Now, choice of programming language and envrionment will be harder. I have no experience in Java (but it looks like it should be doable). I'm more C++/Delphi. Graphical library for the GUI part will also be tricky. Any recommendation for a Win/OSX/Linux (or at least Win/Linux) environment? I know Delphi/Kylix and BuilderX but none of those will allow OSX development. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
