Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Call for Presentations - SotM 2013 (annual conference)
Just want to check if anybody is interested to make a poster about the PH for sotm2013 exhibit. Maning Sambale (mobile) On Apr 25, 2013 3:56 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Your link was intersting until yesterday: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/187654937 What's informationfreeway.org rendering rule applied there? Yves On 08/24/2013 01:55 AM, Ross Scanlon wrote: I think this is the type of rendering that Darren is looking for: informationfreeway.org/?lat=-20.374lon=148.633zoom=15layers=00F000B0 You'll have to copy and paste the link. Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. Cheers Ross On 24/08/13 03:58, Darren Biggs wrote: That is what I am looking for with the default OSM render. I use OSM in aplications like www.ridewithgps.com http://www.ridewithgps.com. That use the default/OSM render. That way cyclist/motorcyclists can know if the road is dirt or not. On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: The HOT HDDM Mapcss style under development adresses the question of road surfaces and it is a very good progress to represent both road classification and surface conditions. However, I would like that the rendering of surface condition do not have preseance over the road classification. Below are two rendering examples with this style : 1. Residential roads see http://hotosm.github.io/HDM-CartoCSS/#19/19.67173/-72.12289 2. An unpaved segment of a primary road see http://hotosm.github.io/HDM-CartoCSS/#17/18.60331/-72.27918 Pierre *De :* Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com mailto:a...@mapbox.com *À :* Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com *Cc :* talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org; Darren Biggs ou98dtbi...@gmail.com mailto:ou98dtbi...@gmail.com *Envoyé le :* Vendredi 23 août 2013 10h16 *Objet :* Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM +1 The absence of a style for surface=unpaved leads to a very common misunderstanding and large amounts of roads mistagged: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/110 On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Il giorno 23/ago/2013, alle ore 15:44, Darren Biggs ou98dtbi...@gmail.com mailto:ou98dtbi...@gmail.com ha scritto: Specifically the Unsurfaced road dashed lines. I see many tracks, but not one Unsurfaced road any road can be unsurfaced http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Have Bike will Travel http://thebikeandmore.blogspot.com/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] www.openstreetmap.org messed up
Den 24-08-2013 00:24, Paul Norman skrev: This is already done. That being said, before reporting a website problem, hit reload, then if that doesn't fix it, close the window and try to reproduce the problem in a new browser window. I tried reloading with shift F5, and I tried both firefox and chrome, but maybe I should have waitet 5 minutes and tried again before posting. Carsten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Ross Scanlon wrote: informationfreeway.org/?lat=-20.374lon=148.633zoom=15layers=00F000B0 You'll have to copy and paste the link. Actually you will have to do more than that. the domain is incorrectly set up, so only http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=-20.374lon=148.633zoom=15layers=00F000B0 will actually work - you need the www. Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. If what you are talking about is the change in style on the roads to the right, then how were they generated as they do not appear on the main database? It's nice to see I can just cut and paste the old style location urls and they will be recognised - hopefully no-one will remove that as redundant ;) I have an interest in this for showing what is to the side of roads. While on one hand macro mapping says add tags to a road to show things like footpaths and cycleways, micro mapping would show the all of the infrastructure actually as areas, but at least as separate identifiable ways which can be selected in preference to the road for planning waking and cycling activity. If the 'road' with no 'side furniture' is rendered with broken sides like this it makes sense. Africa has considerably more of the 'tracks' that I am talking about and there it is even more important to identify ones where the two ruts making up the track would make it dangerous for following on foot? While many parts of the world have different requirements, generally the same rules apply worldwide? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 4:45 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. +1 We also have to see deletions as positive contributions a priori when it is really fixing something (e.g. removing an obsolete POI). Only intentional deletions are positive contributions. There are mouse mistake deletions. And haste deletions. All I ask is that before deleting a POI, that you (beginner, intermediate or guru) examine it. Can it be fixed? Should it be disused: instead? There are few POIs that can be reasonably deleted from the geometry alone... which is why I feel putting the trash can in the editing area is poor workflow. Instead set the UI up to encourage good workflow: see a POI that might be bad, examine it's current content and/or history, apply local knowledge and/or research, and then execute a course of action. Respect the prior mapper's work by actually looking at it, prior to deleting it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. +1 We also have to see deletions as positive contributions a priori when it is really fixing something (e.g. removing an obsolete POI). Only intentional deletions are positive contributions. There are mouse mistake deletions. And haste deletions. All I ask is that before deleting a POI, that you (beginner, intermediate or guru) examine it. Can it be fixed? Should it be disused: instead? There are few POIs that can be reasonably deleted from the geometry alone... which is why I feel putting the trash can in the editing area is poor workflow. Instead set the UI up to encourage good workflow: see a POI that might be bad, examine it's current content and/or history, apply local knowledge and/or research, and then execute a course of action. Respect the prior mapper's work by actually looking at it, prior to deleting it. Until such time as we have a properly documented workflow which archives 'obsolete POI' to an historic map database, they should remain on the map, with an end date. OK the history retains when an action as taken, but the important missing information here is 'closed down xxx' otherwise one does not know if an item was removed because it was wrong or for some legitimate reason. So to my mind there should NEVER be a trash can - 'archive' with properly added tags is the only correct work flow! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
What about when an object (perhaps a road or a boundary) is replaced by a better approximation? The history of the database objects is already dealt with (you can access old versions and see when it was deleted). Typically in these cases the new version gets drawn/uploaded, the tags are copied over and the old version is deleted. So there will be an ongoing need for a delete button. Maybe your suggestion would be well supported by a clone POI operation, which creates a duplicate of the selected POI and deletes the old version with one click of the mouse? Colin On 2013-08-24 10:13, Lester Caine wrote: Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Sometimes it almost looks like some people here are afraid of new users. +1 We also have to see deletions as positive contributions a priori when it is really fixing something (e.g. removing an obsolete POI). Only intentional deletions are positive contributions. There are mouse mistake deletions. And haste deletions. All I ask is that before deleting a POI, that you (beginner, intermediate or guru) examine it. Can it be fixed? Should it be disused: instead? There are few POIs that can be reasonably deleted from the geometry alone... which is why I feel putting the trash can in the editing area is poor workflow. Instead set the UI up to encourage good workflow: see a POI that might be bad, examine it's current content and/or history, apply local knowledge and/or research, and then execute a course of action. Respect the prior mapper's work by actually looking at it, prior to deleting it. Until such time as we have a properly documented workflow which archives 'obsolete POI' to an historic map database, they should remain on the map, with an end date. OK the history retains when an action as taken, but the important missing information here is 'closed down xxx' otherwise one does not know if an item was removed because it was wrong or for some legitimate reason. So to my mind there should NEVER be a trash can - 'archive' with properly added tags is the only correct work flow! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Route calculation on tracks Was: Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Florian Lohoff wrote: ANY road should be used for routing - track/service do have an implicit access=destination and should not used for through traffic but have no route restrictions otherwise That may be the case where you live but I wouldn't make that assumption worldwide. I certainly wouldn't assume that a track in England without any access or designation tags was publically accessible. Routers have a difficult job to do of balancing physical and legal restrictions - there isn't a one size fits all answer. It's more of a problem for OSM because commercial datasets for car satnavs tend not to include the wealth of paths and tracks in OSM in well-mapped areas. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
On 24/08/13 17:46, Lester Caine wrote: Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. If what you are talking about is the change in style on the roads to the right, then how were they generated as they do not appear on the main database? It's nice to see I can just cut and paste the old style location urls and they will be recognised - hopefully no-one will remove that as redundant ;) Have a look at what layer is selected. You see that it's not osm. Cheers Ross I have an interest in this for showing what is to the side of roads. While on one hand macro mapping says add tags to a road to show things like footpaths and cycleways, micro mapping would show the all of the infrastructure actually as areas, but at least as separate identifiable ways which can be selected in preference to the road for planning waking and cycling activity. If the 'road' with no 'side furniture' is rendered with broken sides like this it makes sense. Africa has considerably more of the 'tracks' that I am talking about and there it is even more important to identify ones where the two ruts making up the track would make it dangerous for following on foot? While many parts of the world have different requirements, generally the same rules apply worldwide? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
Colin Smale wrote: What about when an object (perhaps a road or a boundary) is replaced by a better approximation? The history of the database objects is already dealt with (you can access old versions and see when it was deleted). Typically in these cases the new version gets drawn/uploaded, the tags are copied over and the old version is deleted. So there will be an ongoing need for a delete button. Maybe your suggestion would be well supported by a clone POI operation, which creates a duplicate of the selected POI and deletes the old version with one click of the mouse? And in this case a substantial amount of history gets lost! Case 1 ... better imagery shows that the location of a way is wrong ... so move the way to the new location! Do not delete the way and and start again from scratch. This is were 'imports' are very badly broken, and when a new import is applied it should update the one it replaces especially when other material may well now be using the original nodes? We have many years of 'history' building up, but if that is wiped every time some new raw data is loaded information is lost. Case 2 ... an area is redeveloped and the road structure and buildings replaced with a new layout. In this case the old layout very much needs retaining and is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be transferred to an historic map. Again - delete - is totally the wrong action! Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly handled by reverting the change set ... a delete button is not the right tool! Case 4 ... you add something wrong to the map while editing ... use undo! Bottom line - remove the delete button :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Ross Scanlon wrote: Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. If what you are talking about is the change in style on the roads to the right, then how were they generated as they do not appear on the main database? It's nice to see I can just cut and paste the old style location urls and they will be recognised - hopefully no-one will remove that as redundant ;) Have a look at what layer is selected. You see that it's not osm. Hence the question! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers
John Firebaugh wrote: During the last month in this area: P2 iD JOSM Other (Wheelmap / Go Map! / POI+) Made no newbie errors34 17 3 3 Made at least one newbie error 40 16 1 3 Made more serious errors 5 0 1 0 So 45 of 79 new contributors (57%) made errors with P2, 16 of 33 (48%) with iD, 2 of 5 (40%) with JOSM, and 3 of 6 (50%) with other editors. While there's no doubt a fair margin of error here, what I conclude from this is while it's still much too easy for new contributors to make mistakes with our current editors, there's some indication that they make fewer errors (especially serious ones) with iD than with P2. If you have time, I would love to see more numbers in the future or changeset examples that show what types of errors are most common. No problem - at current rate of registration there'll be 50 or so new mappers in that same area in a couple of weeks or so (the rate will hopefully go up with press such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6265150 ), so I'll have a look then. I'm a bit wary of posting individual user errors in a searchable public forum (I wouldn't have wanted my new user errors preserved for posterity in that way!) but will try recreate and summarise the common ones below. Of course the iD versions used in the data above and the summaries below won't be current so these issues may already have been addressed. 1) A POI added without a main tag http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/4295739963 I suspect that people are adding a point to a map (in this case for a shop), and are not seeing shop in the default list to the left or understanding that they can search. In my experience the search works really well, and once a point has been added by mistake the change feature tooltip is pretty obvious too - so I've no idea how to improve here! 2) Thing X changed to thing Y http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4295035814 There have been a couple of examples of people clicking in an area (in this example landuse=residential) and then changing it to match the POI or area that they're trying to add, resulting in something like this unfeasibly large place of worship. 3) Deletions http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/30174 I've no idea whether things are being deleted by clicking on the rubbish bin icon or pressing the keyboard shortcut. According to comments on #osm-gb there have been a couple of attempts to find out what buttons people are clicking, but the answer is I didn't mean to do X - I've no idea how it happened. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
On 24/08/13 19:39, Lester Caine wrote: Ross Scanlon wrote: Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. If what you are talking about is the change in style on the roads to the right, then how were they generated as they do not appear on the main database? It's nice to see I can just cut and paste the old style location urls and they will be recognised - hopefully no-one will remove that as redundant ;) Have a look at what layer is selected. You see that it's not osm. Hence the question! Ok. The roads in question are not in osm, they were pre redaction, they are still in another database. The rendering based on that database is the layer shown. Cheers Ross ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org - some numbers
SomeoneElse wrote: 1) A POI added without a main tag http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/4295739963 I suspect that people are adding a point to a map (in this case for a shop), and are not seeing shop in the default list to the left or understanding that they can search. In my experience the search works really well, and once a point has been added by mistake the change feature tooltip is pretty obvious too - so I've no idea how to improve here! Potlatch2 works nicely by drag and drop a selected POI onto the map. It's grid does need a little updating, but on the whole is a better starting point. I will be making a case for including that into id ... the current 'blank page' when adding a point is not user friendly at all! It took me a while and a few moves to get a POI node created in id ... 3) Deletions http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/30174 I've no idea whether things are being deleted by clicking on the rubbish bin icon or pressing the keyboard shortcut. According to comments on #osm-gb there have been a couple of attempts to find out what buttons people are clicking, but the answer is I didn't mean to do X - I've no idea how it happened. See other thread an why there should not be a delete button! I made the same case on potlatch in the past and now the reasons are even greater. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Ross Scanlon wrote: Notice the broken casing on the sides of some of the roads. If what you are talking about is the change in style on the roads to the right, then how were they generated as they do not appear on the main database? It's nice to see I can just cut and paste the old style location urls and they will be recognised - hopefully no-one will remove that as redundant ;) Have a look at what layer is selected. You see that it's not osm. Hence the question! Ok. The roads in question are not in osm, they were pre redaction, they are still in another database. The rendering based on that database is the layer shown. I had assumed that it was rendered from a database as stubs of the roads are still present, so it was not a simple graphical mashup. The main reason for the question was that the style looks nice and I would be interested in replicating it on my own tiles. Some of the historic styles are still a lot tidier than the current style sheets :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Am 24.08.2013 01:42, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Il giorno 23/ago/2013, alle ore 16:52, Pieren pier...@gmail.com ha scritto: BTW I just discover that some people are tagging for routing (after tagging for the renderer). They add access=yes or motor_vehicle=yes to open the routable track in OSRM... there is no problem with tagging correct access restrictions, especially for tracks you can't know who is entitled to access the way if you don't have deep insight into the national or regional legislation, e.g. in at least one German Land (BaWü) motorized traffic is implicitly excluded from tracks while in the rest of Germany it is only excluded if signposted. Sorry, but how do you get the hint that it is a track and not an unclassified highway and you are not allowed to use it without sign ? I live in BaWü and I always find these signs and tag accordingly if possible and I did not find many tracks without sign. You might be right if you are talking about tracks through the forest. These are usually only allowed for forestry and bicycles are not allowed on pathes in the forest ! cu colliar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 15:11, colliar colliar4e...@aol.com ha scritto: Sorry, but how do you get the hint that it is a track and not an unclassified highway and you are not allowed to use it without sign ? yes, this remains a miracle for me as well, but it seems to be the legal situation. Fortunately they are quite explicit with their signs in BaWü so it is not a big practical problem... cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
So, how would you classify a one-lane road leading through a former field, now overgrown with 30 years or so of bushes and saplings, leading to a billboard adjoining a motorway? The only improvements the road receives is to be mowed periodically to keep it passable, and its only use is by crews periodically changing what is displayed on the billboard. This hardly qualifies as agricultural use, but I tagged it as a track because it is too rudimentary to qualify as anything else. Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 03:40:33PM +0200, Maarten Deen wrote: I think the general idea is that track is a dirt roads fit for two-tracked vehicles (cars, agricultural) and path is a dirt road fit for one-tracked vehicles (because too narrow for two-tracked). A track is for aggricultural purposes - As soon there is the school bus or waste collection trucks passing it CANT be a track. Its either highway=service/service=driveway or an unclassified - it might have a surface=dirt/grass whatever. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dirt Roads in Mapnik, default render in OSM
Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 16:04, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com ha scritto: So, how would you classify a one-lane road leading through a former field, now overgrown with 30 years or so of bushes and saplings, leading to a billboard adjoining a motorway? service cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
Am 24.08.2013 11:00, schrieb Lester Caine: Case 1 ... better imagery shows that the location of a way is wrong ... so move the way to the new location! Do not delete the way and and start again from scratch. This is were 'imports' are very badly broken, and when a new import is applied it should update the one it replaces especially when other material may well now be using the original nodes? We have many years of 'history' building up, but if that is wiped every time some new raw data is loaded information is lost. Case 2 ... an area is redeveloped and the road structure and buildings replaced with a new layout. In this case the old layout very much needs retaining and is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be transferred to an historic map. Again - delete - is totally the wrong action! Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly handled by reverting the change set ... a delete button is not the right tool! Case 4 ... you add something wrong to the map while editing ... use undo! Bottom line - remove the delete button :) +1 The revert button is also not needed quite often and as direction is only indicated with oneway you would only need it to change the direction of a oneway street which works by changing the tag. E.g. why is the button that prominent ? Cheers colliar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] What the status of trac tickets with mapnik as component ?
Hi On trac.osm.org you can still find mapnik as component. I wonder: * is it still needed * did the tickets get evaluated when developing the carto style * is the new code checked against these reports/requests As there are still tickets filled they are probably against carto. cu colliar signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:00 AM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Making iD the default editor on osm.org Case 3 ... vandalism creating havoc ... this can only be correctly handled by reverting the change set ... a delete button is not the right tool! The revert tools just do a delete. Case 4 ... you add something wrong to the map while editing ... use undo! There is an open issue about how to make it more obvious to someone that they've made a mistake to increase the use of undo. Experienced mappers make mistakes too, but they catch them and undo. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Slow TileMill rendering - Postgres using 1 core?
Hi all, I'm running TileMill on an 8 core Ubuntu VM with 32GB of memory, on an OpenStack cloud. Recently, my VM was destroyed, and I rebuilt it (identically, I thought) on slightly different hardware (same cloud, but different physical infrastructure). The new build is much slower at rendering - a screen worth of tiles at zoom 13 can take around a minute. That is, with virtually the same setup, same data, same styles. You can see some slow tiles here: http://emscycletours.site44.com/mel.html While panning around, the 'top' command shows mostly Postgres processes (different from last time I had performance problems[1], when the bottleneck was in Mapnik). Total CPU usage hangs around 12%: ie, exactly 1 out of 8 cores is being used. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/767553/GIS/Screen%20shot%202013-08-25%20at%2011.15.01%20AM.png top - 11:10:32 up 3 days, 36 min, 1 user, load average: 0.06, 0.17, 0.22 Tasks: 133 total, 4 running, 129 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 11.5 us, 0.1 sy, 0.0 ni, 88.4 id, 0.0 wa, 0.0 hi, 0.0 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem: 32950396 total, 7150132 used, 25800264 free, 117864 buffers KiB Swap:0 total,0 used,0 free, 5221356 cached PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+ COMMAND 2353 postgres 20 0 8510m 640m 635m S 41.2 2.0 23:36.57 postgres 2354 postgres 20 0 8510m 644m 639m S 40.2 2.0 23:24.26 postgres 2350 postgres 20 0 8510m 642m 638m S 14.0 2.0 23:19.19 postgres 2375 postgres 20 0 8510m 643m 639m S 14.0 2.0 23:17.80 postgres 13102 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 527m S 13.6 1.7 13:03.21 postgres 2355 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 526m S 13.3 1.7 13:45.15 postgres 2352 postgres 20 0 8510m 640m 636m S 10.0 2.0 23:31.17 postgres 2348 postgres 20 0 8510m 644m 639m S 9.3 2.0 23:41.88 postgres 12420 mapbox20 0 3818m 1.0g 755m S 9.3 3.2 36:48.39 nodejs 2357 postgres 20 0 8508m 530m 526m S 7.3 1.7 13:38.57 postgres 2356 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 526m R 6.3 1.7 13:42.52 postgres 2376 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 527m S 6.0 1.7 13:35.51 postgres 13195 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 527m S 5.3 1.7 12:33.65 postgres 3027 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 527m R 3.3 1.7 13:29.06 postgres 2349 postgres 20 0 8508m 530m 526m S 3.0 1.6 13:38.19 postgres 2358 postgres 20 0 8508m 531m 527m S 3.0 1.7 13:44.59 postgres 26 root 20 0 000 S 0.3 0.0 0:08.64 ksoftirqd/5 2335 postgres 20 0 8489m 2732 1340 S 0.3 0.0 1:00.48 postgres So, wondering if anyone has any suggestions what the problem is, or how to fix it? Why is Postgres apparently using only one core, even though it has many processes? What tools could I use to further diagnose? My changed Postgres settings are as follows: shared_buffers = 8GB autovacuum = on effective_cache_size = 8GB work_mem = 128MB maintenance_work_mem = 64MB wal_buffers = 1MB checkpoint_segments = 10 The server is set up as described here: http://steveko.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/tilemill-server/ I'm not yet using any tile cache. I will do that next, but the problem I'm trying to solve at the moment is very slow tile generation, not slow serving of rendered tiles. Many thanks in advance, Steve [1] http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/TileMill-performance-td5751158.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-br] Excesso de tertiary em Porto Alegre
Por favor, olhem o mapa de Porto Alegre e comparem com qualquer outra cidade grande do mundo, especificamente nesses critérios: 1. Número de vias tertiary, em relação ao número total de vias. 2. Presença de vias secondary ou tertiary não ligadas ao restante do mapa por vias de igual ou maior importância. Se a maioria dos usuários achar que Porto Alegre está mapeada de forma semelhante às demais cidades, segundo esses critérios, eu não digo mais nada. Alguém além de mim vê alguma coisa estranha em Porto Alegre ou sou eu que estou vendo coisas? Em 23/08/2013 21:19, Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com escreveu: No fim eu não respondi diretamente à sua pergunta, Felipe. Mas a diferença entre secondary e tertiary (no fluxograma de classificação) é que secondary é preferencial sobre tertiary. Só isso. Na prática, varia por país. A descrição no wiki em inglês é um tanto vaga, e mais fácil de interpretar fora das cidades. No Brasil, depende de a pessoa querer seguir o fluxograma (que já discutimos em conjunto, criticamos, melhoramos, aparamos as arestas) ou querer seguir o seu coração cantando a mesma canção. :P Se vocês querem trazer esse assunto à tona, sugiro criar um post no fórum para tratar da melhor forma de definir essas diferenças, daí só os interessados participam da discussão (quem está nesta lista, a princípio, ou não se importa, ou já deu a sua manifestação contrária sem propor critérios altenativos, ou acha ok o fluxograma dada a forma com que é apresentado: permitindo divergências do método mas explicando-as com a tag note). Se quiserem, podem fazer um fluxograma alternativo com expressões mais vagas, mas eu acho que logo vocês vão estar se deparando com guerras de edição com usuários que interpretam essas definições vagas de formas diferentes. Ou talvez pior, vocês vão os estar espantando porque, afinal, só vocês usuários experientes sabem o que é primary e secondary, porque não está escrito em lugar nenhum como se decide uma coisa ou outra, ou quem decide, e muito menos por que se decide assim. Me parece muito injusto criticar um usuário que mudou a classificação sem apontar um critério claro e sem respaldo em decisões democráticas tomadas pela comunidade. Pensem, se é pra classificar por importância (sem especificar mais), então as ruas onde eu moro e onde eu trabalho têm que ser primary, porque são muito, muito importantes pra mim. ;D Não vislumbram discussões desse cunho no futuro? Ok, talvez seja algo mais do tipo Esta via é importante porque há 200 anos morava o fundador da associação XYZ. É um critério de importância logicamente válido, se nada mais estiver decidido sobre o que é importância no OSM. A comunidade internacional está transbordando com casos assim (e os motivos são diversos, depende inteiramente da personalidade do indivíduo). Lembrem que o OSM é livre e qualquer um - qualquer um - pode editar e mudar qualquer coisa, inclusive classificações (que são as mais tentadoras - afinal, eu gosto mais de branco do que de amarelo). Se for pra discutir com cada usuário que decidir mudar uma classificação, é bom ter argumentos sólidos e claros, e não ter dois pesos e duas medidas, ou seja, regras que variam caso-a-caso, ou um grande número de casos distintos. Pensem sobre isso e me digam se têm um critério melhor que ajuda a reduzir o número desses casos. Pensem também como vocês explicariam para um leigo, talvez para um idoso, o que significam as coisas que ele vê no mapa. Com esse critério de preferência, a pessoa consegue calcular rotas rápidas sem nem precisar de um navegador GPS, e de cara fica sabendo quais trechos das ruas tendem a ser evitados pelos motoristas (porque não são rápidos). Além do critério ser simples, não deixar dúvidas, e assim não gerar quase nenhuma disputa ou caso particular que mereça discussão, as implicações da sua informação são muito úteis (para motoristas, para pedestres, para ciclistas, para planejamento urbano, para turistas, etc.). Bom pro usuário, e bom pra nós que temos que monitorar o mapa. 2013/8/23 Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com: Se alguém quiser reler a discussão na comunidade brasileira desde o começo, eis o link da primeira das mais de 150 mensagens (pode-se navegar por elas no final da página): http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-br@openstreetmap.org/msg03108.html Defina escoamento do bairro e eu começarei a achar que é objetivo. Pra mim, todas as vias servem para escoamento de um lugar para outro. A idéia original de que as vias formam uma sequência de preferência de tráfego (motorways têm prefência sobre trunks, que têm preferência sobre primaries, que têm preferência sobre secondaries, etc.) está esboçada nesse texto antigo do wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pt-br:How_to_map_a#Classifica.C3.A7.C3.A3o_de_vias_.28obsoleto.2C_substitu.C3.ADdo_pelo_fluxograma.29 Que foi inspirada em discussões da comunidade internacional, cujos
Re: [Talk-de] Fwd: Adressbestände Köln nun als OpenData
Aha, frage mich nur wie du drauf kommst. Wie gesagt mir ist mal ein Hotel in meinem Stadtteil aufgefallen, dass nicht als tourism=hotel durch Ableitung aus dem Feld Nutzung gewonnen werden konnte. Ich habe die vorkommenden Namen nach Leerzeichen getrennt und nach Häufigkeit sortiert. Meiner Meinung könnten sich eignen: Hotel, Senioreneinrichtung, Postamt, Senioreneinrichtung, Gemeinschaftsgrundschule, Grundschule, Kirche, Biergarten, Förderschule, Krankenhaus, Brauhaus, Theater, Fachhochschule, Museum, Gemeinschaftshauptschule, Finanzamt, Berufskolleg, Kunsthochschule, Seniorenhaus, Altenzentrum, Bundesamt, Gymnasium, Wohnheim, Schule, VHS, Fort, Johanneskirche, Bundesagentur, Friedenskirche, Bürgerzentrum. Bei strittigen Wörtern lässt sicherlich der vollständige Namen dann weitere Schlüsse zu. Hier die Liste einschl. 4-faches Vorkommen: hotel: 246 st.: 159 köln: 107 (senioreneinrichtung): 85 für: 83 postamt: 64 haus: 61 gemeinschaftsgrundschule: 45 rheinrefugium: 43 paulihöfe: 42 wohnpark: 41 und: 37 straße: 36 grundschule: 36 kath.: 36 rheinparkmetropole: 36 am: 36 hof: 32 zollstockhöfe: 29 kirche: 23 (biergarten): 20 ev.: 20 förderschule: 20 institut: 19 der: 18 im: 18 gut: 17 bürgeramt: 17 e.v.: 17 cologne: 17 seilerhöfe: 17 axa: 16 zentrum: 15 vulkan-gelände: 14 krankenhaus: 14 theater: 14 dom: 14 seniorenzentrum: 14 deutsches: 13 kalk: 13 (kath.): 13 business: 13 fachhochschule: 12 offices: 11 museum: 11 gemeinschaftshauptschule: 11 brauhaus: 11 deutz: 11 deutsche: 10 höfe: 10 maria: 10 an: 10 spectrum: 10 parc: 10 triotop: 9 zur: 9 (ggs): 9 finanzamt: 9 berufskolleg: 9 gmbh: 9 gewerbepark: 9 kunsthochschule: 8 oval: 8 e.: 8 constantin: 8 seniorenhaus: 8 heilig-geist-krankenhaus: 8 zum: 8 raumfahrt: 8 luft-: 8 medien: 8 westgate: 8 uni-center: 7 gesellschaft: 7 wohnwer(f)t: 7 klinik: 7 altenzentrum: 7 dominium: 7 18.20: 7 georg: 7 mülheim: 7 siebengebirge: 7 (fle): 7 kölnarcaden: 7 (fes): 7 agentur: 6 kölner: 6 bundesamt: 6 em: 6 gymnasium: 6 sbk: 6 arbeit: 6 euronova-businesspark: 6 rheinland: 6 wohnheim: 6 marien: 6 halle: 6 clarenbachstraße: 6 porta: 6 elisabeth: 6 köln-west: 6 schule: 5 katholische: 5 v.: 5 inn: 5 city: 5 (kgs): 5 mühle: 5 western: 5 (rs): 5 hauptstraße: 5 vhs: 5 josef: 5 frohnhof: 5 joseph: 5 vinzenzhaus: 5 fort: 5 rhein: 5 institutsgebäude: 5 4: 5 bauhaus: 5 stadt: 5 abc-tower: 5 porz: 5 nippes: 5 rodenkirchen: 5 center: 4 campus: 4 johanneskirche: 4 bfai: 4 ernst: 4 büro: 4 mercure: 4 tausendfensterturm: 4 bundesagentur: 4 friedenskirche: 4 residenz: 4 home: 4 angewandte: 4 institute: 4 zollstock: 4 antonius: 4 (fge): 4 außenwirtschaft: 4 seiler-höfe: 4 rheinische: 4 maternus: 4 alt: 4 tüv: 4 neu: 4 ring: 4 berufsbildende: 4 ibis: 4 colonius-carreé: 4 runkel: 4 best: 4 bürgerzentrum: 4 rathaus: 4 rath: 4 köln-buchforst: 4 städt.: 4 mediapark: 4 nord: 4 johanneshaus: 4 the: 4 (fsa): 4 viktor-scheffel-haus: 4 erzbischöfliches: 4 christian: 4 neuerburg: 4 seniorenresidenz: 4 ag: 4 ehrenfeld: 4 zu: 4 kolumba: 4 alte: 4 katharina: 4 Am 23. August 2013 18:28 schrieb Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de: Am 23.08.13 schrieb jotpe: Hundehotel? oder Katzenpension, etwas, wo man einen Hund ein paar Tage hinbringt, wenn der Hund nicht mit verreisen kann: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/Tag:amenity%3Danimal_**boardinghttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Danimal_boarding Gruß, Fabian. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] Google Map Maker in Italia
io ho risposto qui: http://www.chimerarevo.com/internet/google-map-maker-italia/ @luigi toscano riguardo l'articolo da te linkcato su Tom's hardware http://www.tomshw.it/cont/news/map-maker-in-italia-solo-tu-puoi-migliorare-google-maps/48473/1.html se vuoi puoi anche fargli vedere quanto è avanti OSM visto che la zona d'esempio per far vedere i miglioramenti prima e dopo l'arrivo di google maker non regge assolutamente il confronto con OSM: guarda qui la stessa zona sul OSM http:// http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/43.5252/10.3160 ;) -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Google-Map-Maker-in-Italia-tp5774299p5774750.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Corpo Forestale dello Stato
+1 tra l'altro l'ho visto indicare così fino ad ora e non entrando in conflitto con altre descrizioni inerenti i corpi di polizia penso che non ci siano problemi nel suo utilizzo. Ho invece qualche dubbio sulla classificazione dei carabinieri tramite tag amenity=police: i carabinieri sono una forza militare di polizia in servizio permanente di pubblica sicurezza...a differenza delle altre forze di polizia i carabinieri sono gestiti dal ministero della difesa e non dal ministero dell'interno. se poi si considera che le nostre forze armate sono composte da Esercito, Marina, Aeronautica e, appunto, l'arma dei carabinieri, non penso sia propriamente lecito classificare le caserme dei carabinieri sotto amenity=police... sarebbe formalmente più lecito classificarli come classifichiamo le caserme delle altre tre forze armate. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Corpo-Forestale-dello-Stato-tp5774547p5774765.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Postazione defibrillatore pubblico (DAE)
Salve a tutti,qualcuno ha aggiornamenti con questo Tag:emergency=aed ? a San Remo ce ne sono fisicamente 6 pronti per essere taggativedi email:https://code.google.com/p/google-mapmaker/issues/detail?id=4391amp;q=aedamp;colspec=ID+Type+Status+Priority+Summary+Stars+Internal non riesco ad accedere alla WIKI http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Daedforse la WIKI è in manutenzione? http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Italy/En/tagstats_emergency_aed.html in JOSM è stato inserito (?) io non lo vedo nell'ultima versione https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm/search?q=aedamp;type=Code thread in ML http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2012-May/thread.html#28514 salutiMarcello ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Buongiorno a tutti, mi chiamo Francesco Frassinelli (nickname Frafra) e faccio modifiche su OSM dal 2008 in maniera poco regolare, principalmente su Vignate (MI) e nella zona intorno Vallecrosia (IM), mentre recentemente ho mappato Bajardo (IM). Mi sono iscritto alla mailing list per restare aggiornato con la comunità italiana e per esporvi alcuni dubbi: 1. Alcuni incroci sono dotati di corsie preferenziali per girare a destra separate dalle altre da aiuole a forma triangolare. Se segnassi a parte questa corsia come strada a senso unico si crea un problema: teoricamente un navigatore potrebbe pensare che una volta ricongiunti alla strada principale si possa svoltare da entrambe le parti, mentre in realtà non è così. Che soluzione adottare? E' il caso di usare relation:restriction anche se si tratta di un incrocio semaforico senza cartelli di obbligo e divieto? 2. Una situazione simile accade su certe strade provinciali che in alcuni punti si intersecano con vie minori: la corsia di sorpasso si tramuta in corsia per girare a sinistra; gli automobilisti restano in attesa in mezzo alla strada finché questa non è sgombra e poi svoltano. Segnando separatamente le corsie come strade a senso unico ed aggiungendone una terza per svoltare a sinistra (anch'essa a senso unico) si creano due possibili situazioni: un incrocio aggiuntivo dove un navigatore potrebbe reputare fattibile una inversione a U, oppure due strade che si intersecano, ma non hanno punti in comune sebbene siano sullo stesso livello (questa situazione viene segnata come potenziale errore sul sito per individuare gli errori sulle mappe di OSM del quale ora non ricordo il nome). In questo caso non ci sono né aiuole né barriere, ma solo indicazioni sul manto stradale. Come comportarsi? Grazie per la vostra disponibilità, Francesco Frassinelli ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Postazione defibrillatore pubblico (DAE)
Il 24/08/2013 12:13, billi...@libero.it ha scritto: Salve a tutti, qualcuno ha aggiornamenti con questo Tag:emergency=aed ? a San Remo ce ne sono fisicamente 6 pronti per essere taggati vedi email: https://code.google.com/p/google-mapmaker/issues/detail?id=4391q=aedcolspec=ID+Type+Status+Priority+Summary+Stars+Internal non riesco ad accedere alla WIKI http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Daed forse la WIKI in manutenzione? A me la wiki funziona. E' in fase di migrazione sul nuovo server e quindi in sola lettura, ma raggiungibile. NOTICE: wiki.openstreetmap.org will be read-only from 23 August 2013 - 8:00pm to 24 August 2013 - 4:00pm GMT/UTC for migration to a new server. http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Italy/En/tagstats_emergency_aed.html in JOSM stato inserito (?) io non lo vedo nell'ultima versione https://github.com/openstreetmap/josm/search?q=aedtype=Code thread in ML http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2012-May/thread.html#28514 saluti Marcello Ciao Giuliano ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Corpo Forestale dello Stato
Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 11:28, Aury88 spacedrive...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ho invece qualche dubbio sulla classificazione dei carabinieri tramite tag amenity=police: i carabinieri sono una forza militare di polizia in servizio permanente di pubblica sicurezza...a differenza delle altre forze di polizia i carabinieri sono gestiti dal ministero della difesa e non dal ministero dell'interno. la GdF è gestita dal ministero dell'economia se poi si considera che le nostre forze armate sono composte da Esercito, Marina, Aeronautica e, appunto, l'arma dei carabinieri, non penso sia propriamente lecito classificare le caserme dei carabinieri sotto amenity=police... sarebbe formalmente più lecito classificarli come classifichiamo le caserme delle altre tre forze armate. sono sia uno che l'altro e penso lo possiamo anche mettere così ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Corpo Forestale dello Stato
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: se poi si considera che le nostre forze armate sono composte da Esercito, Marina, Aeronautica e, appunto, l'arma dei carabinieri, non penso sia propriamente lecito classificare le caserme dei carabinieri sotto amenity=police... sarebbe formalmente più lecito classificarli come classifichiamo le caserme delle altre tre forze armate. sono sia uno che l'altro e penso lo possiamo anche mettere così Infatti. amenity=police non vai in conflitto con robe tipo military=barracks landuse=military (non era un problema 4 anni fa, non vedo perché lo sia diventato adesso). Se cerchi polizia, il risultato carabinieri soddisfa pienamente la richiesta. Ciao -- Luigi ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 13:00, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: E' il caso di usare relation:restriction anche se si tratta di un incrocio semaforico senza cartelli di obbligo e divieto? si, relazioni restriction 2. Una situazione simile accade su certe strade provinciali che in alcuni punti si intersecano con vie minori: la corsia di sorpasso si tramuta in corsia per girare a sinistra; gli automobilisti restano in attesa in mezzo alla strada finché questa non è sgombra e poi svoltano. Segnando separatamente le corsie come strade a senso unico ed aggiungendone una terza per svoltare a sinistra (anch'essa a senso unico) si creano due possibili situazioni: un incrocio aggiuntivo dove un navigatore potrebbe reputare fattibile una inversione a U, oppure due strade che si intersecano, ma non hanno punti in comune sebbene siano sullo stesso livello (questa situazione viene segnata come potenziale errore sul sito per individuare gli errori sulle mappe di OSM del quale ora non ricordo il nome). In questo caso non ci sono né aiuole né barriere, ma solo indicazioni sul manto stradale. Come comportarsi? non separare la strada quando non è fisicamente separata, anche lì turn restrictions (se ho capito bene la situazione) ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 13:00, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: E' il caso di usare relation:restriction anche se si tratta di un incrocio semaforico senza cartelli di obbligo e divieto? si, relazioni restriction +1. Oltretutto la relazione restriction è facile da usare, ma se vuoi essere ancora più facilitato c'è il plugin turnrestrictions per JOSM! Ciao, Simone ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 15:52, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 13:00, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: E' il caso di usare relation:restriction anche se si tratta di un incrocio semaforico senza cartelli di obbligo e divieto? si, relazioni restriction +1. Oltretutto la relazione restriction è facile da usare, ma se vuoi essere ancora più facilitato c'è il plugin turnrestrictions per JOSM! Grazie Martin e Simone per i vostri consigli. Ho risolto evitando di mappare le singole corsie ed utilizzando relation:restriction. Il problema delle corsie, per quanto poco importante, tuttavia rimane: ci sono strade provinciali che permettono, non essendo autostrade, di girare a sinistra tramite corsie apposite, sia durante l'immissione sulla strada principale sia nel caso inverso. Per farvi capire cosa intendo eccovi due buoni esempi: 1. Singola corsia di immissione sulla strada secondaria: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.504688lon=9.366615z=20r=0src=msa 2. Due corsie per entrare ed uscire dalla strada secondaria: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.490814lon=9.37574z=19.7r=0src=msa Credete valga la pena aggiungere informazioni legate a queste corsie? Se si, in che modo, dato che le corsie non sono fisicamente separate da barriere e che non si tratta delle più semplici corsie di immissione di una autostrada? Buona giornata, Frafra ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] R: Corpo Forestale dello Stato
La GDF è un corpo militare, alla stregua dei Carabinieri. La Polizia di Stato e la Polizia penitenziaria e le Guardie Forestali sono forze smilitarizzate. Nell'elenco dei corpi di polizia non è stato citato: la Capitaneria di Porto (militare) Saluti Beppe -Messaggio originale- Da: Martin Koppenhoefer [mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com] Inviato: sabato 24 agosto 2013 14:57 A: openstreetmap list - italiano Cc: talk-it@openstreetmap.org Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Corpo Forestale dello Stato Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 11:28, Aury88 spacedrive...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ho invece qualche dubbio sulla classificazione dei carabinieri tramite tag amenity=police: i carabinieri sono una forza militare di polizia in servizio permanente di pubblica sicurezza...a differenza delle altre forze di polizia i carabinieri sono gestiti dal ministero della difesa e non dal ministero dell'interno. la GdF è gestita dal ministero dell'economia se poi si considera che le nostre forze armate sono composte da Esercito, Marina, Aeronautica e, appunto, l'arma dei carabinieri, non penso sia propriamente lecito classificare le caserme dei carabinieri sotto amenity=police... sarebbe formalmente più lecito classificarli come classifichiamo le caserme delle altre tre forze armate. sono sia uno che l'altro e penso lo possiamo anche mettere così ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 17:05, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 16:58, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 15:52, Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 15:33, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 13:00, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: E' il caso di usare relation:restriction anche se si tratta di un incrocio semaforico senza cartelli di obbligo e divieto? si, relazioni restriction +1. Oltretutto la relazione restriction è facile da usare, ma se vuoi essere ancora più facilitato c'è il plugin turnrestrictions per JOSM! Grazie Martin e Simone per i vostri consigli. Ho risolto evitando di mappare le singole corsie ed utilizzando relation:restriction. Il problema delle corsie, per quanto poco importante, tuttavia rimane: ci sono strade provinciali che permettono, non essendo autostrade, di girare a sinistra tramite corsie apposite, sia durante l'immissione sulla strada principale sia nel caso inverso. Per farvi capire cosa intendo eccovi due buoni esempi: 1. Singola corsia di immissione sulla strada secondaria: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.504688lon=9.366615z=20r=0src=msa 2. Due corsie per entrare ed uscire dalla strada secondaria: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=45.490814lon=9.37574z=19.7r=0src=msa Credete valga la pena aggiungere informazioni legate a queste corsie? Se si, in che modo, dato che le corsie non sono fisicamente separate da barriere e che non si tratta delle più semplici corsie di immissione di una autostrada? C'è lo schema proposto per le turn lanes [1], e il plugin JOSM turnlanes. Io avevo provato lo schema sugli incroci di corso Italia a Vercelli, ma non so di navigatori che usino queste indicazioni, e la cosa si è fermata lì. Certo, mappare il dato non è una cosa che si fa per i consumatori, ma se nessuno lo usa passa un po' la voglia :-) Compreso :) Un'ultima domanda: ho notato che spesso le restrizioni, sebbene nella realtà esistano, non sono esplicitate. Il primo esempio di questa sezione ne è una dimostrazione: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction#Examples E' ovvio che una vettura proveniente da sud non possa svoltare prima ad est e poi ad ovest sulla strada A, ma questo divieto formalmente non c'è, quindi un sistema di routing potrebbe, ipotizzo, consigliare questa strana strada nel caso la vettura imbocchi per errore la strada che porta ad est, per riportarla sul viale sud-nord. Ho ritrovato la stessa situazione più volte su osm e mi chiedo se non sia necessario, o quantomeno preferibile, esplicitare questo divieto. Buona serata, Frafra ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Non serve essere un Comune. Se cerchi nel sito del Catasto trovi la toponomastica (cosiddetti archivi) divisa per provincia. Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 17:49, bredy bredy...@yahoo.it ha scritto: Qualcuno sa se c'è un modo per recuperare la toponomastica delle vie per un paese? So che lo fa Agenzia delle Entrate, ma bisogna essere un comune per averne accesso. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-tp5774804.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] R: Re: Toponomastica
Messaggio originale Da: f.pelu...@gmail.com Data: 24-ago-2013 17.52 A: openstreetmap list - italianotalk-it@openstreetmap.org Ogg: Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica Non serve essere un Comune. Se cerchi nel sito del Catasto trovi la toponomastica (cosiddetti archivi) divisa per provincia. Ciao /niubii/link please?sono interessato anche io ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
-- Messaggio inoltrato -- Da: Francesco Pelullo f.pelu...@gmail.com Data: 24/ago/2013 17:52 Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica A: openstreetmap list - italiano talk-it@openstreetmap.org Cc: Non serve essere un Comune. Se cerchi nel sito del Catasto trovi la toponomastica (cosiddetti archivi) divisa per provincia. http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/nsilib/nsi/home/cosadevifare/aggiornare+dati+catastali+e+ipotecari/aggiornamento+catasto+fabbricati+-+docfa/software#archivi_p Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 17:49, bredy bredy...@yahoo.it ha scritto: Qualcuno sa se c'è un modo per recuperare la toponomastica delle vie per un paese? So che lo fa Agenzia delle Entrate, ma bisogna essere un comune per averne accesso. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-tp5774804.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Se non c'è alcuna restizione, il routing calcola anche quella eventuale uscita come permessa per chi provine dala direzione in cui non è possibile raggiungerla, vietata dalla segnaletica orizzontale ma su OSM fisicamente connesse tra di loro. A Roma abbiamo una caso analogo: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/41.83145/12.38794 L'uscita Alitalia Centro Direzionale non è raggiungibile per chi proviene dalla carreggiata esterna, quella rampa di accesso si può usare solo per l'inversione di marcia, e quindi ci si può tenere solo sulla sinistra, ma non c'è una separazione fisica, è solo delimitata dalla segnaletica verticale e orrizzontale. Siccome la segnaletica orizzontale delimita bene il divieto, ho risolto creando una corsia di immissione apposita per l'inversione di marcia. Davide -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Nuovo-utente-e-domande-sugli-incroci-tp5774776p5774809.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Errata corrige, avevo capito che facevi riferimento al terzo esempio :) Ma la prima prte del messaggio è valida lo stesso. Davide -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Nuovo-utente-e-domande-sugli-incroci-tp5774776p5774810.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Il 24/08/2013 17:55, Francesco Pelullo ha scritto: -- Messaggio inoltrato -- Da: Francesco Pelullo f.pelu...@gmail.com mailto:f.pelu...@gmail.com Data: 24/ago/2013 17:52 Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica A: openstreetmap list - italiano talk-it@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk-it@openstreetmap.org Cc: Non serve essere un Comune. Se cerchi nel sito del Catasto trovi la toponomastica (cosiddetti archivi) divisa per provincia. http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/nsilib/nsi/home/cosadevifare/aggiornare+dati+catastali+e+ipotecari/aggiornamento+catasto+fabbricati+-+docfa/software#archivi_p Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 17:49, bredy bredy...@yahoo.it mailto:bredy...@yahoo.it ha scritto: Qualcuno sa se c'è un modo per recuperare la toponomastica delle vie per un paese? So che lo fa Agenzia delle Entrate, ma bisogna essere un comune per averne accesso. Attenzione alla licenza, quelli che ho scaricato io sono file di formato proprieario *.DAT, e comunque non apribili con un semplice editor, richiede un programma apposito, vedi alla voce software poco sopra nella pagina likata alla voce archivi provinciali. Per me sono da verificare prima di esportarli, fatto salvo la, non mi pare ci sia, non presenza di coordinate delle vie e numeri civici. -- Simone Girardelli ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Si, ma anche con quel software mi sembrano illeggibili i dati. A me basta avere l'elenco delle vie per un comune. Ho scaricato sia il file del software che quello della provincia e l'ho caricato negli archivi, ma adesso come faccio a vedere tutte le vie di un comune? -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-tp5774804p5774813.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Il 24/08/2013 19:42, bredy ha scritto: Si, ma anche con quel software mi sembrano illeggibili i dati. A me basta avere l'elenco delle vie per un comune. Ho scaricato sia il file del software che quello della provincia e l'ho caricato negli archivi, ma adesso come faccio a vedere tutte le vie di un comune? Infatti è un file per uso ufficio, non per uso geografico, ripeto, la licenza và comunque controllata, ma non la vedo da nessuna parte. -- Simone Girardelli ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Richiesta per account twitter
Il 22/08/2013 12:19 Simone Cortesi ha scritto: 2013/8/22 sabas88 saba...@gmail.com: oramai è quasi un anno che va avanti l'iniziativa social [0] che ha previsto la pagina facebook, google+ ed iniziative correlate. C'è anche un account twitter che abbiamo creato successivamente ed è questo l'oggetto della mail. Voglio ringraziare pubblicamente a nome mio, e penso anche a nome di tutti voi, Stefano, che si sta facendo carico di questo impegno. GRAZIE! esorto chi abbia un po' di voglia e tempo a partecipare all'iniziativa social di OSM in italia. Grazie, S. Non sono contrario all'uso di FB, Twitter e G+ (sebbene mi stia allontanando dai primi due (vade retro Google+)) ma perché non puntare a social network friendly come Diaspora (che usa Nominatim per la localizzazione) e identi.ca (che usa pump.io)? - MM -- Michael Moroni +393313151159 @Airon90 Pensa all'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non necessario! Pripensu al medio: ne presu cxi tiun retmesagxon se nenecese! identi.ca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
È un file di testo a campi a larghezza predefinita. Il file che contiene nel nome la parola toponom è quello di nostro interesse. Se non ricordo male, i primi tre o quattro caratteri di ogni record sono la chiave per il codice comune, che si desume dall'archivio dei comuni italiani (scaricabile a parte dalla stessa pagina, cerca qualcosa con comune urbano (cito a memoria). Per la licenza: non so rispondere, credo che sia tutto PD. Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 19:44, girarsi_liste liste.gira...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il 24/08/2013 19:42, bredy ha scritto: Si, ma anche con quel software mi sembrano illeggibili i dati. A me basta avere l'elenco delle vie per un comune. Ho scaricato sia il file del software che quello della provincia e l'ho caricato negli archivi, ma adesso come faccio a vedere tutte le vie di un comune? Infatti è un file per uso ufficio, non per uso geografico, ripeto, la licenza và comunque controllata, ma non la vedo da nessuna parte. -- Simone Girardelli __**_ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Attenti! http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/portal/entrate/privacy Proprietà intellettuale Ogni diritto sui contenuti (a titolo esemplificativo testi, immagini e architettura del sito) è riservato ai sensi della normativa vigente. I contenuti delle pagine del sito non possono, né totalmente né in parte, essere copiati, riprodotti, trasferiti, caricati, pubblicati o distribuiti in qualsiasi modo senza il preventivo consenso scritto dell'Agenzia delle Entrate, fatta salva la possibilità di immagazzinarli nel proprio computer o di stampare estratti delle pagine di questo sito unicamente per utilizzo personale. ciao Tiziano 2013/8/24 Francesco Pelullo f.pelu...@gmail.com È un file di testo a campi a larghezza predefinita. Il file che contiene nel nome la parola toponom è quello di nostro interesse. Se non ricordo male, i primi tre o quattro caratteri di ogni record sono la chiave per il codice comune, che si desume dall'archivio dei comuni italiani (scaricabile a parte dalla stessa pagina, cerca qualcosa con comune urbano (cito a memoria). Per la licenza: non so rispondere, credo che sia tutto PD. Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 19:44, girarsi_liste liste.gira...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il 24/08/2013 19:42, bredy ha scritto: Si, ma anche con quel software mi sembrano illeggibili i dati. A me basta avere l'elenco delle vie per un comune. Ho scaricato sia il file del software che quello della provincia e l'ho caricato negli archivi, ma adesso come faccio a vedere tutte le vie di un comune? Infatti è un file per uso ufficio, non per uso geografico, ripeto, la licenza và comunque controllata, ma non la vedo da nessuna parte. -- Simone Girardelli __**_ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Dubito che siano pubblico dominio, ma per l'articolo 52 del Codice di Amministrazione Digitale, se non c'e' niente scritto allora si tratta di open data. Le linee guida di Agenzia Digitale per l'Italia dicono che la licenza da associare in questi casi e' la cc-by 2.5 ita dove la citazione deve avvenire mettendo il link del ente erogante. L'unica preoccupazione e' vedere se sul sito c'e' scritto qualcosa. 2013/8/24 Francesco Pelullo f.pelu...@gmail.com: È un file di testo a campi a larghezza predefinita. Il file che contiene nel nome la parola toponom è quello di nostro interesse. Se non ricordo male, i primi tre o quattro caratteri di ogni record sono la chiave per il codice comune, che si desume dall'archivio dei comuni italiani (scaricabile a parte dalla stessa pagina, cerca qualcosa con comune urbano (cito a memoria). Per la licenza: non so rispondere, credo che sia tutto PD. Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 19:44, girarsi_liste liste.gira...@gmail.com ha scritto: Il 24/08/2013 19:42, bredy ha scritto: Si, ma anche con quel software mi sembrano illeggibili i dati. A me basta avere l'elenco delle vie per un comune. Ho scaricato sia il file del software che quello della provincia e l'ho caricato negli archivi, ma adesso come faccio a vedere tutte le vie di un comune? Infatti è un file per uso ufficio, non per uso geografico, ripeto, la licenza và comunque controllata, ma non la vedo da nessuna parte. -- Simone Girardelli ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Maurizio Napo Napolitano http://de.straba.us ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Richiesta per account twitter
Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 19:46, Michael Moroni michael.mor...@mailoo.orgha scritto: Non sono contrario all'uso di FB, Twitter e G+ (sebbene mi stia allontanando dai primi due (vade retro Google+)) ma perché non puntare a social network friendly come Diaspora (che usa Nominatim per la localizzazione) e identi.ca (che usa pump.io)? - MM Riesco a gestire solo due profili e mezzo :-) Ben venga chi cerca di promuovere OSM sulle piattaforme che usa, basta che lo faccia sapere prima in lista se vuole scrivere a nome della community. -- Michael Moroni+393313151159 @Airon90 Ciao, Stefano Pensa all'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non necessario! Pripensu al medio: ne presu cxi tiun retmesagxon se nenecese! identi.ca ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Comunque a me serve solo avere l'elenco delle vie che non andrà a finire in OSM, ma solo per verificare che ci siano tutte le vie su un comune. Quindi nessun problema di licenza. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-tp5774804p5774820.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Comunque ho risolto e mi son fatto un db per la mia provincia. Grazie -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Toponomastica-tp5774804p5774823.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 17:48, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ho ritrovato la stessa situazione più volte su osm e mi chiedo se non sia necessario, o quantomeno preferibile, esplicitare questo divieto. in generale ci mancano ancora la più grande parte dei divieti di svolta in osm (credo), quindi se vedi che manca un divieto, mettilo. L'unico caso dove non mettiamo relazioni è quando il divieto è implicito (perché ci sono sensi unici che ti obbligano), anche se sulla strada si trovano i segni. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Nuovo utente e domande sugli incroci
Il giorno 24 agosto 2013 22:26, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.comha scritto: Il giorno 24/ago/2013, alle ore 17:48, Francesco Frassinelli frap...@gmail.com ha scritto: Ho ritrovato la stessa situazione più volte su osm e mi chiedo se non sia necessario, o quantomeno preferibile, esplicitare questo divieto. in generale ci mancano ancora la più grande parte dei divieti di svolta in osm (credo), quindi se vedi che manca un divieto, mettilo. L'unico caso dove non mettiamo relazioni è quando il divieto è implicito (perché ci sono sensi unici che ti obbligano), anche se sulla strada si trovano i segni. Compreso. Ho provvisto ha sistemare quelli delle zone che conosco meglio inserendo principalmente divieti di inversione di marcia (mi pareva l'indicazione più consona). Buona serata, Frafra ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Questo thread pero' mette in evidenza una cosa caruccia che si potrebbe integrare con il lavoro di Daniele Forsi sulla corretta scrittura dei nomi delle strade o con quello di Diego Guidotti sui km non coperti. Come gia' detto, per articolo 52 del codice di amministrazione digitale italiano - se non presente una licenza - ci troviamo davanti un database con l'elenco di tutti i nomi delle strade di Italia. A questo punto possiamo attivarci per scoprire quali sono i comuni da coprire. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
Si, tutto vero. Tra l'altro, esiste una tabella con tutti i possibili tipi di toponimi. Non ricordo in quale file sia nascosta, dovrei ridare un'occhiata al tracciato dei record (scaricabile sempre dalla solita pagina dell'Agenzia delle Entrate). In ogni caso, ne trovi una copia qui: http://suite.tecter.it/Help/Appendix/TracciatiRecord/ImpCatasto_LkToponimi.htm Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 22:45, Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com ha scritto: Questo thread pero' mette in evidenza una cosa caruccia che si potrebbe integrare con il lavoro di Daniele Forsi sulla corretta scrittura dei nomi delle strade o con quello di Diego Guidotti sui km non coperti. Come gia' detto, per articolo 52 del codice di amministrazione digitale italiano - se non presente una licenza - ci troviamo davanti un database con l'elenco di tutti i nomi delle strade di Italia. A questo punto possiamo attivarci per scoprire quali sono i comuni da coprire. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Toponomastica
e' Questa DUG ftp://ftp.finanze.it/pub/territorio/swstradario/DUG_05042012.csv Il 24 agosto 2013 23:33, Francesco Pelullo f.pelu...@gmail.com ha scritto: Si, tutto vero. Tra l'altro, esiste una tabella con tutti i possibili tipi di toponimi. Non ricordo in quale file sia nascosta, dovrei ridare un'occhiata al tracciato dei record (scaricabile sempre dalla solita pagina dell'Agenzia delle Entrate). In ogni caso, ne trovi una copia qui: http://suite.tecter.it/Help/Appendix/TracciatiRecord/ImpCatasto_LkToponimi.htm Ciao /niubii/ Il giorno 24/ago/2013 22:45, Maurizio Napolitano napoo...@gmail.com ha scritto: Questo thread pero' mette in evidenza una cosa caruccia che si potrebbe integrare con il lavoro di Daniele Forsi sulla corretta scrittura dei nomi delle strade o con quello di Diego Guidotti sui km non coperti. Come gia' detto, per articolo 52 del codice di amministrazione digitale italiano - se non presente una licenza - ci troviamo davanti un database con l'elenco di tutti i nomi delle strade di Italia. A questo punto possiamo attivarci per scoprire quali sono i comuni da coprire. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- Linux Infinite Freedom I'm writing from this place: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.39945lon=8.6798zoom=15layers=M ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Case per vacanze.
Dalle mie parti ed in Trentino in generale, sono presenti delle case private o appartenenti ai singoli comuni, messe a disposizione come case per vacanze, ppur mantendone la proprietà (presumo che abbiano una percentuale sulle tariffe emesse). Ho una segnalazione della mia zona, che mette il nome di Maso Lagorai, approfondendo la ricerca, scopro essere parte di questo progetto turistico dell'APT della zona, ma ripeto, presente in Trentino, e presumo in tutta Italia, magari con forme diverse. Ad ogni modo sono indeciso sui tag, visto che si tratta comunque di un maso/baita, ha il proprietario che non è L'APT, e comunque funge da appartamento/i messo/i a disposizione. I tag che ho pensato di mettere sono i seguenti: building=hut/house -- alcuni sono di 3 o 4 appartamenti altri singoli edifici. tourism=wilderness_hut/alpine_hut -- dipende se è molto isolata o in zona vicino ci sono altre baite. reservation=members_only -- solo per i turisti che prenotano tramite APT, oppure eventualmente solo il proprietario access=private description=Casa per vacanze description:de=* -- ? description:en=* -- ? description.fr=* -- ? description:nl=* -- ? sul sito dell'APT Valsugana è presente pure la lingua olandese. name=* -- nome eventuale della casa/baita/maso operator=Azienda per il turismo Valsugana -- nel mio caso ele=* -- come punto separato oppure uno dei tag della casa in questione? Opening_hours non l'ho messo in quanto è gestito il tutto dall'APT in base alla stagionalità. Grazie a chi mi risponderà/consiglierà. -- Simone Girardelli ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Florian. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Le 24/08/2013 10:45, Otourly Wiki a écrit : Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Ainsi que la répétition de voies et utiliser la clé lanes. Dans la mesure ou les voies ne sont pas physiquement distinctes, il n'y a pas lieu de les séparer dans OSM. Par contre, est-ce que area=yes fonctionne avec les motorway ? C'est peut-être une solution propre pour représenter l'emprise de la gare de péage. Librement, -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
En plus les voies dans chaque sens ne sont pas attribuées de façon fixe, me^me s'il y a des plots de séparation ils sont déplacés selon le trafic. Les voies ne sont pas marquées non plus, mais au niveau des cabines il y a bien des séparations. il y a donc bien une séparation des voies (mais elles sont bidirectionelles faut de sens attitré), et elles sont bien comptées, mais et il reste à les connecter. Si on réunit le tout, on risque de ne plus rien voir de ce péage très large. On est dans un cas où il serait souhaitable de représenter la route par des surfaces trapèze, connectées à des voies courtes parallèles mais séparées au niveau des cabines, et connecté à la pointe des trapèze aux deux routes unidirectionelles de l'autoroute. Mais puisque'on ne peut pas faire de routage sur une surface, il ne reste qu'à représenter les surfaces en plus d'une unique route bidirectionnelle traversant l'alignement des cabines de péage (et c'est cette unique route bidirectionnelle qui doit compter le nombre total de lanes). La surface en double trapèze serait marquée avec le tag toll du péage. Le 24 août 2013 11:05, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 10:45, Otourly Wiki a écrit : Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?**zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.** 73212layers=B00http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Ainsi que la répétition de voies et utiliser la clé lanes. Dans la mesure ou les voies ne sont pas physiquement distinctes, il n'y a pas lieu de les séparer dans OSM. Par contre, est-ce que area=yes fonctionne avec les motorway ? C'est peut-être une solution propre pour représenter l'emprise de la gare de péage. Librement, -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Le 24/08/2013 11:05, Christophe Merlet a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 10:45, Otourly Wiki a écrit : Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Ainsi que la répétition de voies et utiliser la clé lanes. Dans la mesure ou les voies ne sont pas physiquement distinctes, il n'y a pas lieu de les séparer dans OSM. Par contre, est-ce que area=yes fonctionne avec les motorway ? C'est peut-être une solution propre pour représenter l'emprise de la gare de péage. Je viens de faire un essai sur la gare de péage de Sames (64). http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=17lat=43.53057lon=-1.18658layers=B00 Le area=yes n'apparait pas, mais ne dégrade pas la carte non plus. Ça peut être une solution en attendant que les styles de rendu prennent en compte area=yes sur les motorway. Évidemment, du coup, yen a qui vont vouloir utiliser area sur les troncons complet et pas seulement sur l'emprise des grandes gares de péages ! Librement, -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Wiki d'osm en maintenance ??
Bonjour, Plus rien depuis ce matin : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org C'est une maintenance prévue ou une panne ? -- Yves ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Wiki d'osm en maintenance ??
Il me semble qu'une migration du wiki est en cours, il devait être en read-only, mais il est semble-t-il passé en null-only :( Le 24 août 2013 15:08, Yves Pratter yves.prat...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonjour, Plus rien depuis ce matin : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org C'est une maintenance prévue ou une panne ? -- Yves ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France Un nouveau serveur pour OSM... http://donate.osm.org/server2013/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Mais tu as gardé la séparation des sens alors qu'il n'y a plus de séparation au péage, les voies centrales pouvant changer de sens. Ne faudrait-il pas réunir les deux segments en un seul bidirectionnel dans les deux triangles ? Note au passage que ce segment a une vitesse limitée, on ne peut pas y rouler à 130. Le découpage de ces segments a une signification aussi et ne rajoutera pas de complexité. Mais ces surfaces mériteraient évidemment d'être rendues, comme on ne fait pour les rivières avec les riverbanks qui ne remplacement pas non plus le filaire central conservé pour le routage. Le 24 août 2013 11:37, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 11:05, Christophe Merlet a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 10:45, Otourly Wiki a écrit : Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?**zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.** 73212layers=B00http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Ainsi que la répétition de voies et utiliser la clé lanes. Dans la mesure ou les voies ne sont pas physiquement distinctes, il n'y a pas lieu de les séparer dans OSM. Par contre, est-ce que area=yes fonctionne avec les motorway ? C'est peut-être une solution propre pour représenter l'emprise de la gare de péage. Je viens de faire un essai sur la gare de péage de Sames (64). http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?**zoom=17lat=43.53057lon=-1.** 18658layers=B00http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=17lat=43.53057lon=-1.18658layers=B00 Le area=yes n'apparait pas, mais ne dégrade pas la carte non plus. Ça peut être une solution en attendant que les styles de rendu prennent en compte area=yes sur les motorway. Évidemment, du coup, yen a qui vont vouloir utiliser area sur les troncons complet et pas seulement sur l'emprise des grandes gares de péages ! Librement, -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] ecouter wikipedia
http://listen.hatnote.com/ a quand un equivalent pour OSM ? ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Le 24/08/2013 15:23, Philippe Verdy a écrit : Mais tu as gardé la séparation des sens alors qu'il n'y a plus de séparation au péage, les voies centrales pouvant changer de sens. Quelque soit la répartition des barrières entre les 2 sens, les voies de circulation sont toujours séparées. Ne faudrait-il pas réunir les deux segments en un seul bidirectionnel dans les deux triangles ? Note au passage que ce segment a une vitesse limitée, on ne peut pas y rouler à 130. Je décline toute responsabilité si un conducteur essaie de franchir la barrière de péage sans ralentir. Le découpage de ces segments a une signification aussi et ne rajoutera pas de complexité. Mais ces surfaces mériteraient évidemment d'être rendues, comme on ne fait pour les rivières avec les riverbanks qui ne remplacement pas non plus le filaire central conservé pour le routage. Le 24 août 2013 11:37, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org mailto:red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 11:05, Christophe Merlet a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 10:45, Otourly Wiki a écrit : Bonjour, Me promenant sur la carte je suis tombé sur http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?__zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.__73212layers=B00 http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=19lat=45.97335lon=4.73212layers=B00 Je pense qu'on peut judicieusement supprimer une telle répétition de noms ;) Ainsi que la répétition de voies et utiliser la clé lanes. Dans la mesure ou les voies ne sont pas physiquement distinctes, il n'y a pas lieu de les séparer dans OSM. Par contre, est-ce que area=yes fonctionne avec les motorway ? C'est peut-être une solution propre pour représenter l'emprise de la gare de péage. Je viens de faire un essai sur la gare de péage de Sames (64). http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?__zoom=17lat=43.53057lon=-1.__18658layers=B00 http://tile.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=17lat=43.53057lon=-1.18658layers=B00 Le area=yes n'apparait pas, mais ne dégrade pas la carte non plus. Ça peut être une solution en attendant que les styles de rendu prennent en compte area=yes sur les motorway. Évidemment, du coup, yen a qui vont vouloir utiliser area sur les troncons complet et pas seulement sur l'emprise des grandes gares de péages ! Librement, -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) _ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.__org/listinfo/talk-fr http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Rendu-FR : péage
Le 24 août 2013 15:45, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : Le 24/08/2013 15:23, Philippe Verdy a écrit : Mais tu as gardé la séparation des sens alors qu'il n'y a plus de séparation au péage, les voies centrales pouvant changer de sens. Quelque soit la répartition des barrières entre les 2 sens, les voies de circulation sont toujours séparées. La séparation est fixe sur le très court segment au niveau du péage lui-même, mais pas dans les deux triangles de répartition, où on ne trouve que des plots mobiles. et au milieu de ces triangles de répartition il n'y a pas de terre-plain central non plus. Le télépéage ne change rien, les voies centrales inversibles ont ce qu'il faut pour fonctionner dans les deux sens. Lors de travaux de maintenance une partie des cabines peut être fermée au milieu ou bien sur un des deux côtés. Les voies centrales servent à cet ajustement, et l'absence de terre-plain rend cela facile. C'est bien pour ça aussi qu'il y a aussi des feux de signalisation des sens au dessus de chaque cabine (et des deux côtés) Ces changements de sens se font couramment en fonction des projections de trafic pour éviter trop d'encombrement du péage. Ils sont très courant dans les péages de début ou de fin d'autoroute (moins sur les péages intermédiaires où ces accès se dont par une branche latérale, mais cela arrive aussi). Le péage de Saint-Arnoud (le plus grand de France, et un des plus grands d'Europe s'il est dépassé à Moscou) est celui où le changement du nombre de voies dans chaque sens est le plus imposant. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Ouverture portail Open Data du Grand Nancy
Bonsoir, Le portail Open Data de la Communauté urbaine du Grand Nancy (CUGN) a été officiellement ouvert aujourd'hui. http://opendata.grand-nancy.org/ 47 jeux de données sont d'ores et déjà disponibles sous licence ODbL et la plupart sont d'intérêt pour une confrontation avec celles d'OSM. En particulier, il y a les points adresse qui pourraient être ajoutés à Osmose. Frédéric,tu pourrais t'en charger? Aussi, il y a plusieurs orthophotographies et est-ce qu'il serait possible d'en mettre une à disposition via un flux WMS sur les serveurs d'OSM-France? J'ajoute qu'en parallèle du portail Open Data, la CUGN a lancé l'application https://www.g-ny.org/ sur la mobilité au sein du territoire de la communauté urbaine. Les données OSM y sont exploitées et il y a un souhait de développer l'usage d'OSM. Il va y avoir une sensibilisation des différents acteurs du territoire et une collaboration à prévoir avec les contributeurs locaux, des formations... A suivre... Romain ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ouverture portail Open Data du Grand Nancy
Bon, côté licence, c'est feu vert, mais maintenant il faut regarder la qualité de ces données et ne pas s'enthousiasmer par avance vu les expériences passées mais j'ai un bon présentiment vu la liste des jeux de données. Romain, tu as déjà regardé la qualité ? Pour les orthos, je vois des orthos de 2012 à 30 et 7,5cm ! 19Go en ECW... Il y a effectivement énormément de données intéressantes, tu nous prépare une page sur le wiki pour coordonner tout ça ? Je regarde les stationnements PMR... Le 24 août 2013 22:20, Romain MEHUT romain.me...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonsoir, Le portail Open Data de la Communauté urbaine du Grand Nancy (CUGN) a été officiellement ouvert aujourd'hui. http://opendata.grand-nancy.org/ 47 jeux de données sont d'ores et déjà disponibles sous licence ODbL et la plupart sont d'intérêt pour une confrontation avec celles d'OSM. En particulier, il y a les points adresse qui pourraient être ajoutés à Osmose. Frédéric,tu pourrais t'en charger? Aussi, il y a plusieurs orthophotographies et est-ce qu'il serait possible d'en mettre une à disposition via un flux WMS sur les serveurs d'OSM-France? J'ajoute qu'en parallèle du portail Open Data, la CUGN a lancé l'application https://www.g-ny.org/ sur la mobilité au sein du territoire de la communauté urbaine. Les données OSM y sont exploitées et il y a un souhait de développer l'usage d'OSM. Il va y avoir une sensibilisation des différents acteurs du territoire et une collaboration à prévoir avec les contributeurs locaux, des formations... A suivre... Romain ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France Un nouveau serveur pour OSM... http://donate.osm.org/server2013/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Ouverture portail Open Data du Grand Nancy
Le 24/08/2013 22:20, Romain MEHUT a écrit : Bonsoir, Le portail Open Data de la Communauté urbaine du Grand Nancy (CUGN) a été officiellement ouvert aujourd'hui. http://opendata.grand-nancy.org/ 47 jeux de données sont d'ores et déjà disponibles sous licence ODbL et la plupart sont d'intérêt pour une confrontation avec celles d'OSM. En particulier, il y a les points adresse qui pourraient être ajoutés à Osmose. Frédéric,tu pourrais t'en charger? On a perdu le serveur qui héberge c'est outil depuis 2 semaines. J'espère que les scripts sont dans les sauvegardes mais on n'a pas encore regardé. Avec les scripts c'est facile d'ajouter une nouvelle ville, c'est fait pour. Frédéric. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] iD remplace P2...
Bonsoir, perso j'ai commencé avec potlatch, et je trouve les raccourci bien pratique (comme le copier/coller de tag - r ) que je ne retrouve pas encore sur ID.(je dois pas encore connaitre tous les raccourci sur ID) Après c'est sur qu'il faut s'adapter et savoir évoluer. Pour l'instant en utilisant ID, il m'est arrivé de créer de grand rectangle s'en forcement m'en rendre compte. on verra pour la suite si je l'adopte complétement. Simon ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Appel aux Troyens
Bonjour, La ville de Troyes est attaquée par ses propres quartiers ! http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/48.3152/4.1254layers=T Sur le rendu transport, le nom des quartiers ressort plus que le nom de la ville. Le rendu standard n'a pas le souci. Des connaisseurs pour régler le problème ? Teuxe ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Appel aux Troyens
C'est un polygone avec place=suburb... ça me semble être plutôt un défaut du rendu transport que des données, non ? Le 25 août 2013 00:18, Teuxe te...@free.fr a écrit : Bonjour, La ville de Troyes est attaquée par ses propres quartiers ! http://www.openstreetmap.org/#**map=10/48.3152/4.1254layers=Thttp://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/48.3152/4.1254layers=T Sur le rendu transport, le nom des quartiers ressort plus que le nom de la ville. Le rendu standard n'a pas le souci. Des connaisseurs pour régler le problème ? Teuxe __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France Un nouveau serveur pour OSM... http://donate.osm.org/server2013/ ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Polygone géant du massif central
Bonjour, Après, cet exemple est beaucoup moins vaste que « Massif Central » . Cela pourrait aller pour un massif du type « Plateau des Millevaches ». Je ne saisis pas bien la différence. On mappe les contours administratifs des pays aussi bien que ceux des communes et ça ne pose pas de problème. Pourquoi ce serait différent pour des massifs montagneux ou des zones naturelles d'une manière générale ? Les contours administratifs des villes, départements, pays, etc. sont des limites conventionnelles qu'il a fallu déterminer pour des usages divers et variés. Ils sont le plus souvent repérés par des particularités géographiques : cours d'eau, crêtes, etc. ou quand il n'y en a pas, c'est un choix plus ou moins arbitraire, guidé par l'histoire. Pour les désignations de zones géographiques comme le « Massif Central », le « Plateau des Millevaches » ou un lieu-dit entouré de champs : - quand on y est, on sait dire qu'on y est, - quand on n'y est pas, on sait dire qu'on n'y est pas, - mais difficile de trancher quand on se trouve dans une zone intermédiaire, sauf à avoir choisi des limites physiques : on ne passe pas de la Manche à l'Océan Atlantique comme on franchit une barrière. S'il existe une liste de communes « officiellement dans le Massif Central » c'est bien pour trancher une fois pour toutes une limite qui n'aurait sinon pas de signification. Bien sûr on pourra trouver des gens qui chipoteront sur l'appartenance ou non d'un lieu à une dénomination, c'est l'essence même des frontières floues... Pour représenter ces zones sur une carte, en général on floute justement ces frontières ; ce qui compte surtout, ce sont les points fondamentaux (au moins, un centre d'intérêt) qui donnent le nom du lieu, et l'étendue approximative de la zone dans laquelle on peut se considérer « à l'intérieur ». S'intéresser à une limite d'une précision de moins d'1 mètre sur une zone floue de plusieurs milliers de km², ça n'a pas de sens. Teuxe ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Polygone géant du massif central
On a pour ça un type de boundary=natural_region pour tout ce qui n'est pas administratif mais plutôt culturel. Lié plus ou moins bien à la géographie physique, plutôt moins que plus car c'est souvent lié à une dénomination administrative (plutôt privinciale) historique, sous forme d'un ensemble d'ancien villages dont les contours ruraux externes étaient en fait assez flous, et qui ne sont pas formellement les communes d'aujourd'hui, dont les frontières ont pu évoluer pour inclure des villages qui ne faisaient pas initialement dans la région culturelle historique. Ce qui subsiste est régions culturelles est alors lié plutôt aujourd'hui à l'activité culturelle actuelle, en particulier l'action de communication des offices de tourisme, et les coopérations intercommunales (parfois transfrontalières. C'est aussi parfois lié à des appellations d'origine dans le secteur agroalimentaire, mais là le contexte légal des zones d'appellation protégées est beaucoup plus strict et formellement définit des listes de communes assez précises et c'est lié à certaines productions mais pas d'autres dont les appellations protégées peuvent avoir des contours différents. Je me demande donc si les zones d'appellation protégées liées au produits devraient être clairement séparées des autres régions naturelles liées au tourisme. Je n'ai pas vu dans OSM de définition de ces zones d'appellation, alors qu'elles existent en France mais aussi dans bon nombre de pays européens, avec des définitions admises dans l'Union européenne par des directives et des lois nationales. Si on cartographie les zones d'appellation protégées il faudra un type de frontière bien précis, et un tag pour désigner le nom du produit protégé (et ses traductions éventuelles). En revanche on trouve des tags pour les communes qui ont pris des arrêtés anti-OGM (pas sous forme de frontière, mais sous forme d'un tag ajouté aux communes existantes, ce qui n'est pas forcément très pratique si la définition de ces zones a un découpage infracommunal ou si la décision émane non pas de la commune mais d'une autre collectivité locale, ou d'un groupement d'agriculteurs adhérents à une association ou une coopérative non limitée à une commune mais plutôt à un type de production dans une zone plus ou moins étendue et pas forcément contiguë non plus, ou à des associations de résidents). Rappelons que les OGM sont à nouveau autorisés en France dans l'alimentation animale, même si on ne les produit pas sur place. La question se pose donc de la multiplicité des zonages non administratifs pour des usages très différents: doit-on les mettre dans OSM? Ou peut-on produire à partir des données cartohraphiqes d'OSM et d'une base de données externe listant des zones identifiées dans OSM, une carte de ces zones? JE pense que ces données ont leur place et qu'OSM n'est pas dédié uniquement à la cartographie des transports (motorisés ou non). Mais pour les vraies régions culturelles c'est assez flou car elles sont issues de données historiques et à la prise en compte d'une date de référence qui n'est pas lcelle d'aujourd'hui. Et OSM est mal adapté pour les données historiques. On ne peut donc cartographier dans OSM que les régions culturelles poiur lesquelles il existe une organisation locale chargée de les défendre et reconnue par une collectivité locale ou par la loi (les zones d'appellation restant à part car liées à un produit mais sans portée sur les les autres activités ou les résidents). Il me semble que le minimum est d'abord de voir si on peut créer une base externe permettant de référencer des zones administratives actuelles afin d'en obtenir la géométrie dans OSM. Et alors de ne créer des zones dans OSM que dans le cas où on ne peut pas faire autrement pour avoir une carte complète du zonage. Attention aussi au zonage privé (un bon exemple est celui des Pavillons bleus qui est un label dont la définition peut changer à tout moment mais n'est pas protégé par une loi, même si des collectivités veulent y adhérer... en payant pour ça... Plus de paiement une année, et plus de pavillon même si les critères d'obtention sont encore valables). Le zonage des labels n'a pas sa place dans OSM à mon avis (d'autant plus qu'il y a des problèmes de propriété intellectuelle, similaires en France à ceux des GR en dépit de la reconnaissance par l'Etat de l'organisation qui les promeut, mais en contradiction avec les règles de concurrence entre labels si la dénomination est exclusive). Même chose pour la classification des hôtels et restaurants (toques et autres labels similaires issus de certains guides). Les labels ne désignent pas des régions culturelles. Le 25 août 2013 02:36, Teuxe te...@free.fr a écrit : Bonjour, Après, cet exemple est beaucoup moins vaste que « Massif Central » . Cela pourrait aller pour un massif du type « Plateau des Millevaches ». Je ne saisis pas bien la différence. On mappe les contours administratifs des pays aussi bien que ceux des communes et ça ne
[OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
古橋です。 本日(2013/08/24)から2日間ローソン・ハッカソンで ローソンさんから日本全国のローソン店舗情報をオープンストリートマップに提供いただけることになり、 OSMFJとして、試験インポートについて協力中です。 こちらにご報告が遅れましてすみません。 (本家OSM Imports MLでの調整に注力しており、talk-ja @goinkyo_hacker さんご指摘ありがとうございました!) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lawson_hackathon_2013 (只今 OSMwiki が落ちているようで臨時に https://www.evernote.com/shard/s5/sh/5e95279c-9836-4f89-83da-fe5052acf437/24bb093933439ff81b7e597080485f35に公開しました。) 現状、2013/08/23 付のローソン全国データ約11000店舗(既存のOSMデータで約1000店舗ありました)をインポートしております。 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 またインポートデータの refキーは、今後の更新用に使用する予定ですので消去しないようお願い致します。 既存データとのマージ作業は手作業で実施しておりますが、 良いアイディアや、ご意見など適宜MLもしくは Twitterハッシュタグ #OSMjp にてお待ちしております。 今回あくまで日本全国ですが、テストインポートで、 本来の目的は毎日更新される情報のOSMへの投入試験になります。 そのため、ローソンさん側からは毎日更新される情報が提供されていますが、 今後は、まずは被災地(とくに石巻)を中心に、毎日更新の技術を試験運用し、その技術ノウハウの共有が最終的な目標になります。 refキーはその更新のために重要なので、 どうぞよろしくお願い致します。 -- ## Taichi FURUHASHI(MAPconcierge Inc. President) ## MAPconcierge satellite office at http://goo.gl/VgWD6 in NOMAD NEW'SBASE ## Vice-President of OpenStreetMap Foundation Japan with sinsai.info project ## Director of the OSGeo Foundation Japan ## Researcher of the center for spatial info. science, univ.of Tokyo ## TEL/SkypeTwitterLIFB: 070-6401-5963 / http://about.me/mapconcierge ## URL/Mail: http://www.mapconcierge.jp tai...@mapconcierge.jp ## GPS/GigaPan/UAV Shop: http://gpsconcierge.jp ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
皆さん 山下と申します。こんにちわ。 In message calp-gfo13n3j-pow2smjgnq+hfkalowlfbz6cuwmz-cw_j-...@mail.gmail.com Taichi Furuhashi tai...@osmf.jp writes 以下、引用が前後しますが、ご了承ください。 現状、2013/08/23 付のローソン全国データ約11000店舗(既存のOSMデータで約1000店舗ありました)をインポートしております。 インポート、おつかれさまでした。 (1) 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 今回のインポートの大きな問題は、 既にマッピングされている店舗も 全く考慮なくインポートされたことです。 例えば向日市でも 向日市上植野町店がエリアで描いてあるのに http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/201510092 ノードとしてインポートされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2429705990 結果、重複してレンダリングされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/34.93260/135.70720 もし、Yahoo/Alps の道路データが マッピング済みの way を考慮せず 重複してインポートされたら、 皆さんありえない行為と思われるでしょう。 Yahoo/Alps のデータは、インポーター各位が 一つ一つの way の重複を確認しながら また、既存の way との接続を確認しながら 慎重にインポートされたものと思います。 今回はそういう配慮が全くされず、 結果だけを急がれたのが非常に残念です。 (2) その上、 既存データとのマージ作業は手作業で実施しておりますが、 良いアイディアや、ご意見など適宜MLもしくは Twitterハッシュタグ #OSMjp にてお待ちしております。 マージに対して解決策が見いだせていないのに インポートを強行されたのも問題と考えます。 (3) もう一つは、 OSMFJとして、試験インポートについて協力中です。 今回あくまで日本全国ですが、テストインポートで、 本来の目的は毎日更新される情報のOSMへの投入試験になります。 もう既に OSM マニアだけでなくて、 一般のユーザが実用している地図に対して、 試験/テストインポートされたということも問題と考えます。 地図の質を落とすような試験/テストなら、 別の場所/レイヤでやっていただくか、 もっと慎重にやっていただきたい。 Apple の地図があれだけ問題になったことの 教訓が生かされていません。 依頼事項: マッピング済みの店舗に関しては、 インポートを取り消してマージ後に再インポートを希望します。 もし「マッピング済み店舗」の見分けがつかないなら、 今回のインポートは全部ロールバックいただきたい。 少なくとも、 今の地図として質が落ちた(ところがある)状態で 放置しないでいただきたい。 以上、ご検討のほど、よろしくお願いします。 -- 山下康成@京都府向日市 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
としです. 古橋です。 ... 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 またインポートデータの refキーは、今後の更新用に使用する予定ですので消去しないようお願い致します。 ref は,http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lawson_hackathon_2013 によると, 6桁の一意な整数値のようですが,この整数値の仕様は自由なもの, ありていに述べれば ref キーの6桁の一意な整数値は,仕様が公開されていますでしょうか? この ref キーの仕様が公開されておらず,自由に出来るものではないとすると, 今現在,OSMには,自由ではないデータが入っていると考えるのですが, 問題はないでしょうか? refキーはその更新のために重要なので、 どうぞよろしくお願い致します。 よくわかっていないのですが,そもそも ref キーをこの様に使うと言うのは,OSMとしては既に オーソライズされているのでしょうか? また,重要であるとしても,このMLを購読していない OSMer もいると思いますし,もし ref キーを (意図せずに)変更した場合,技術的にどの様な不整合が出るかは教えて頂けたらと思います. ではこれにて. ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
古橋です。 ご意見ありがとうございます。 一部、誤解があるかと思いますので補足いたします。 2013年8月24日 16:55 yasun...@yamasita.jp: 皆さん 山下と申します。こんにちわ。 In message calp-gfo13n3j-pow2smjgnq+hfkalowlfbz6cuwmz-cw_j-...@mail.gmail.com Taichi Furuhashi tai...@osmf.jp writes 以下、引用が前後しますが、ご了承ください。 現状、2013/08/23 付のローソン全国データ約11000店舗(既存のOSMデータで約1000店舗ありました)をインポートしております。 インポート、おつかれさまでした。 (1) 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 今回のインポートの大きな問題は、 既にマッピングされている店舗も 全く考慮なくインポートされたことです。 全く考慮していないのではなく、 既存のデータとのマージ作業はインポート後に行うということが考慮されている点で 説明が不十分だったと思います。 例えば向日市でも 向日市上植野町店がエリアで描いてあるのに http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/201510092 ノードとしてインポートされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2429705990 結果、重複してレンダリングされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/34.93260/135.70720 トポロジカル(位相構造)としてはこの点問題無いと考えています。 エリアとノードは両方が存在しかつ、まとめる必要があれば Relationなどでまとめることもひとつの解決方法になります。 ですので、この点の重複は想定されております。 もし、Yahoo/Alps の道路データが マッピング済みの way を考慮せず 重複してインポートされたら、 皆さんありえない行為と思われるでしょう。 Yahoo/Alps のデータは、インポーター各位が 一つ一つの way の重複を確認しながら また、既存の way との接続を確認しながら 慎重にインポートされたものと思います。 今回はそういう配慮が全くされず、 結果だけを急がれたのが非常に残念です。 トポロジ構造が重要な way と POI とのデータ構造の差を考えると 同列で扱う話ではないと考えています。 (2) その上、 既存データとのマージ作業は手作業で実施しておりますが、 良いアイディアや、ご意見など適宜MLもしくは Twitterハッシュタグ #OSMjp にてお待ちしております。 マージに対して解決策が見いだせていないのに インポートを強行されたのも問題と考えます。 既存のデータが1000ポイント程度ですので、 マニュアルでの作業で十分対応できると考えています。 良いアイディアについては、マージ後にも発生しうるであろう、POIデータの重複の検出など、 定常的な技術についてむしろ議論をすすめていきたいと考えております。 (3) もう一つは、 OSMFJとして、試験インポートについて協力中です。 今回あくまで日本全国ですが、テストインポートで、 本来の目的は毎日更新される情報のOSMへの投入試験になります。 もう既に OSM マニアだけでなくて、 一般のユーザが実用している地図に対して、 試験/テストインポートされたということも問題と考えます。 地図の質を落とすような試験/テストなら、 別の場所/レイヤでやっていただくか、 もっと慎重にやっていただきたい。 ご意見ありがとうございます。 確かに、ローソン側との協議(NDAの関連で)と、実際の試験投入まで時間が足りず、 talk-ja へのご報告が遅れてしまったことは、完全にこちらのミスです。 Apple の地図があれだけ問題になったことの 教訓が生かされていません。 依頼事項: マッピング済みの店舗に関しては、 インポートを取り消してマージ後に再インポートを希望します。 もし「マッピング済み店舗」の見分けがつかないなら、 今回のインポートは全部ロールバックいただきたい。 引き続き、ML上でロールバックについてのご意見が大勢であれば、 選択肢として十分ありえると思います。 この点、山下さんも含め、みなさんからのご意見をお待ちいたします。 少なくとも、 今の地図として質が落ちた(ところがある)状態で 放置しないでいただきたい。 すみません、 もう一度具体的な「質の低下」について具体的な説明をお願いできますでしょうか? データの重複は、今後のマージ作業を放置することはまったく考えておりません。 責任をもって対応いたします。 その結果、むしろデータ品質は向上していくと考えています。 (動作を確認しなければならないのは、毎日更新される情報をどう反映させるかという意味で、 鮮度の品質については、今回のテストインポートのままですと次第に劣化していくと考えます。) データ型の不整合は、地物として両方の表現がありますので POIデータとエリアデータは共存すべきと考えます。 以上、引き続きどうぞよろしくお願いいたします。 以上、ご検討のほど、よろしくお願いします。 -- 山下康成@京都府向日市 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- ## Taichi FURUHASHI(MAPconcierge Inc. President) ## MAPconcierge satellite office at http://goo.gl/VgWD6 in NOMAD NEW'SBASE ## Vice-President of OpenStreetMap Foundation Japan with sinsai.info project ## Director of the OSGeo Foundation Japan ## Researcher of the center for spatial info. science, univ.of Tokyo ## TEL/SkypeTwitterLIFB: 070-6401-5963 / http://about.me/mapconcierge ## URL/Mail: http://www.mapconcierge.jp tai...@mapconcierge.jp ## GPS/GigaPan/UAV Shop: http://gpsconcierge.jp ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
としです. データの重複は、今後のマージ作業を放置することはまったく考えておりません。 責任をもって対応いたします。 その結果、むしろデータ品質は向上していくと考えています。 古橋さんが責任を持ってするのではなく,OSMer のみんなが出来る方法に することが,大切な事の様に考えています. もしこれが古橋さんの責任とすれば,表現を変えると,ある特定のデータは, ある特定のユーザに編集が委ねられる事になります. それは,データの質が向上するとしても,誰でもが参加できる地図とは 言えなくなる.と私は考えます. 誰でもが自由に参加できる地図作りのためには,今回インポートされたデータは, 基本的には元データが得られなければならないはず.と考えていますが,いかがでしょうか. 引用が前後しますが, 良いアイディアについては、マージ後にも発生しうるであろう、POIデータの重複の検出など、 定常的な技術についてむしろ議論をすすめていきたいと考えております。 元データの仕様や技術的情報が不明なままで,OSMer のみんなが良い方法を考えるのは, 中々に難しいように思うのです. ではこれにて. ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
としです. 確かに、ローソン側との協議(NDAの関連で)と、実際の試験投入まで時間が足りず、 talk-ja へのご報告が遅れてしまったことは、完全にこちらのミスです。 一応,念の為に,ここで NDA の表現がありますが,今回のインポートは NDA 外ですよね? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lawson_hackathon_2013 に,License: (c) Lawson, ODbL とありますから,元データも ODbL 競合しないはずと思いますが,NDAの表現が出たので, 一応念のための確認です. ではこれにて. ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
古橋です。 2013年8月24日 21:33 Toshihisa Tanaka tosih...@netfort.gr.jp: としです. データの重複は、今後のマージ作業を放置することはまったく考えておりません。 責任をもって対応いたします。 その結果、むしろデータ品質は向上していくと考えています。 古橋さんが責任を持ってするのではなく,OSMer のみんなが出来る方法に することが,大切な事の様に考えています. はい、 そこがまさにテストインポートの趣旨です。 まず現状ではマージする目処はたてた上でのインポートですが、 提供されたデータと今後の品質向上のためには もしこれが古橋さんの責任とすれば,表現を変えると,ある特定のデータは, ある特定のユーザに編集が委ねられる事になります. それは,データの質が向上するとしても,誰でもが参加できる地図とは 言えなくなる.と私は考えます. 責任は古橋個人ではなく、 OSMFJのアカデミックグループとして、インポート手法を検討するという方向で OSMFJとしての運営委委員会には了承いただいています。 (繰り返しますが、 talk-ja への報告が遅れたことは100%こちらのミスです) 古橋個人の責任で今回の作業が行われていると思われると 誤解を生むと思います。 誰でもが自由に参加できる地図作りのためには,今回インポートされたデータは, 基本的には元データが得られなければならないはず.と考えていますが,いかがでしょうか. 引用が前後しますが, 良いアイディアについては、マージ後にも発生しうるであろう、POIデータの重複の検出など、 定常的な技術についてむしろ議論をすすめていきたいと考えております。 元データの仕様や技術的情報が不明なままで,OSMer のみんなが良い方法を考えるのは, 中々に難しいように思うのです. 元データの仕様については、可能な限り OSMwikiに説明しておりますので、 足りない情報などあれば、遠慮なくご意見ください。追記いたします。 コンバートの技術資料も github に完全公開しております。 https://github.com/osmfj/lawson2osm ref キーについては「ユニークなIDが割り振られている」だけでは不十分でしょうか? 例えば ref:lawson のように区別すべきかなと、としさんのコメントから考えなおしております。 というわけで、引き続きみなさんご意見よろしくお願いいたします。 ではこれにて. ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- ## Taichi FURUHASHI(MAPconcierge Inc. President) ## MAPconcierge satellite office at http://goo.gl/VgWD6 in NOMAD NEW'SBASE ## Vice-President of OpenStreetMap Foundation Japan with sinsai.info project ## Director of the OSGeo Foundation Japan ## Researcher of the center for spatial info. science, univ.of Tokyo ## TEL/SkypeTwitterLIFB: 070-6401-5963 / http://about.me/mapconcierge ## URL/Mail: http://www.mapconcierge.jp tai...@mapconcierge.jp ## GPS/GigaPan/UAV Shop: http://gpsconcierge.jp ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
古橋さま 山下です。応答、ありがとうございます。 In message calp-gfrqpbdtxymh_e51vqmbe7t+gt4q6xbrbgat+kqab6l...@mail.gmail.com Taichi Furuhashi tai...@osmf.jp writes (1) 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 今回のインポートの大きな問題は、 既にマッピングされている店舗も 全く考慮なくインポートされたことです。 全く考慮していないのではなく、 既存のデータとのマージ作業はインポート後に行うということが考慮されている点で 説明が不十分だったと思います。 「説明が不十分であった」とのことですが、 あとからやると言いながらそのマージ作業のめどがたっていないという点で 考慮されていたとは、とても考えられません。 完全に見切り発車です。 (2) その上、 既存データとのマージ作業は手作業で実施しておりますが、 良いアイディアや、ご意見など適宜MLもしくは Twitterハッシュタグ #OSMjp にてお待ちしております。 マージに対して解決策が見いだせていないのに インポートを強行されたのも問題と考えます。 既存のデータが1000ポイント程度ですので、 マニュアルでの作業で十分対応できると考えています。 で、それは、いつまでにどのように行われるのですか? 少なくとも、 今の地図として質が落ちた(ところがある)状態で 放置しないでいただきたい。 すみません、 もう一度具体的な「質の低下」について具体的な説明をお願いできますでしょうか? 先のメールでは、エリアとノードの例を上げましたが、 // そこを正当化されるとは予想外でした。 ほとんどはノードが2つある重複です。 例えば、ローソンストア100向日寺戸店 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1056482121 と http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2429706491 と。 もちろん店舗はひとつしか無いのに2つレンダリングされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/34.95307/135.70532 それが上記のとおりだとすると1000ヶ所あるのですよね? 我々マッパーが一生懸命書いた一つしか無い地物を ダブってインポートされ、2つ存在するかのようにように レンダリングされている状態を「質の低下」と言っています。 さらには上記ローソンストア100向日寺戸店では、 店舗が府道に面しているにも関わらず インポートされたデータでは店舗がビルの奥の方に配置されているという点で、 位置的にも「質が低下」しているといえます。 // まぁ、これは今回のインポートとは関係なく // インポート元の精度?の問題でしょう。 // マッピング済みの店舗は、どちらの位置が正しいのか // 1店1店精査しながらインポートされれば質の低下はおこりません データの重複は、今後のマージ作業を放置することはまったく考えておりません。 責任をもって対応いたします。 繰り返しお聞きします。 それは、いつまでにどのように対応されるのですか? めどがたっていないのでしょう? 対応できるようになるまで、 「質が低下」したまま放置なさるのですか? それで「責任をもって対応します」と言えるのですか? 引き続き、ML上でロールバックについてのご意見が大勢であれば、 選択肢として十分ありえると思います。 この点、山下さんも含め、みなさんからのご意見をお待ちいたします。 一旦ロールバックしていただいて、 いつまでにどのようにマージするかを検討、確定いただいてから 再度インポートいただくか、 質が低下しないようにマージしながらインポートいただくのが 「責任をもって」の対応ではないでしょうか。 以上、ご検討のほど、よろしくお願いします -- 山下康成@京都府向日市 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 全国ローソンデータのテストインポートについて
山下さん: 古橋です。 具体的な問題点のご指摘ありがとうございます。 まさにこういう事例報告をお待ちしておりました。 関連する問題点を整理して、あらためてローソンデータのインポート方法については 考えていきたいと思います。 取り急ぎ御礼まで! 2013年8月24日 22:26 yasun...@yamasita.jp: 古橋さま 山下です。応答、ありがとうございます。 In message calp-gfrqpbdtxymh_e51vqmbe7t+gt4q6xbrbgat+kqab6l...@mail.gmail.com Taichi Furuhashi tai...@osmf.jp writes (1) 都道府県ごとにインポートしましたので、 もし、大きな問題がありましたら Revert 処理いたしますので ご連絡ください。 今回のインポートの大きな問題は、 既にマッピングされている店舗も 全く考慮なくインポートされたことです。 全く考慮していないのではなく、 既存のデータとのマージ作業はインポート後に行うということが考慮されている点で 説明が不十分だったと思います。 「説明が不十分であった」とのことですが、 あとからやると言いながらそのマージ作業のめどがたっていないという点で 考慮されていたとは、とても考えられません。 完全に見切り発車です。 (2) その上、 既存データとのマージ作業は手作業で実施しておりますが、 良いアイディアや、ご意見など適宜MLもしくは Twitterハッシュタグ #OSMjp にてお待ちしております。 マージに対して解決策が見いだせていないのに インポートを強行されたのも問題と考えます。 既存のデータが1000ポイント程度ですので、 マニュアルでの作業で十分対応できると考えています。 で、それは、いつまでにどのように行われるのですか? 少なくとも、 今の地図として質が落ちた(ところがある)状態で 放置しないでいただきたい。 すみません、 もう一度具体的な「質の低下」について具体的な説明をお願いできますでしょうか? 先のメールでは、エリアとノードの例を上げましたが、 // そこを正当化されるとは予想外でした。 ほとんどはノードが2つある重複です。 例えば、ローソンストア100向日寺戸店 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1056482121 と http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2429706491 と。 もちろん店舗はひとつしか無いのに2つレンダリングされています。 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/34.95307/135.70532 それが上記のとおりだとすると1000ヶ所あるのですよね? 我々マッパーが一生懸命書いた一つしか無い地物を ダブってインポートされ、2つ存在するかのようにように レンダリングされている状態を「質の低下」と言っています。 さらには上記ローソンストア100向日寺戸店では、 店舗が府道に面しているにも関わらず インポートされたデータでは店舗がビルの奥の方に配置されているという点で、 位置的にも「質が低下」しているといえます。 // まぁ、これは今回のインポートとは関係なく // インポート元の精度?の問題でしょう。 // マッピング済みの店舗は、どちらの位置が正しいのか // 1店1店精査しながらインポートされれば質の低下はおこりません データの重複は、今後のマージ作業を放置することはまったく考えておりません。 責任をもって対応いたします。 繰り返しお聞きします。 それは、いつまでにどのように対応されるのですか? めどがたっていないのでしょう? 対応できるようになるまで、 「質が低下」したまま放置なさるのですか? それで「責任をもって対応します」と言えるのですか? 引き続き、ML上でロールバックについてのご意見が大勢であれば、 選択肢として十分ありえると思います。 この点、山下さんも含め、みなさんからのご意見をお待ちいたします。 一旦ロールバックしていただいて、 いつまでにどのようにマージするかを検討、確定いただいてから 再度インポートいただくか、 質が低下しないようにマージしながらインポートいただくのが 「責任をもって」の対応ではないでしょうか。 以上、ご検討のほど、よろしくお願いします -- 山下康成@京都府向日市 ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- ## Taichi FURUHASHI(MAPconcierge Inc. President) ## MAPconcierge satellite office at http://goo.gl/VgWD6 in NOMAD NEW'SBASE ## Vice-President of OpenStreetMap Foundation Japan with sinsai.info project ## Director of the OSGeo Foundation Japan ## Researcher of the center for spatial info. science, univ.of Tokyo ## TEL/SkypeTwitterLIFB: 070-6401-5963 / http://about.me/mapconcierge ## URL/Mail: http://www.mapconcierge.jp tai...@mapconcierge.jp ## GPS/GigaPan/UAV Shop: http://gpsconcierge.jp ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [OSM-ja] 住所
OSM横浜のあまのです。 いいださん、おつかれさまです。 先週は旅に出ておりました。 帰ってみてみたら、エライ事に(笑) 旅先で片鱗は見てはいましたが。。。 拝見したところ、無番地、丁目、京都市街など、 超ド級レアケース(といってもいい)の所で、 足をからめとられているみたいですので、 取り合えず、下記の表にコメントで、モデル分けを始めてみてます。 (←調子に乗って変な例ばかり出したのが悪かったですね。すみません。) そうすると、値が入るか否かだけの差で、基本形はかなりすっきりすると 思います。 行政上の大字の名前として「◯◯ 1丁目12番9号」と規定されていても、 実際のサーベイを行うときに見かける数字としては、しばしば「◯◯ 1-12-9」と省略される記法になっています。 これを正しく分離するのは、統一された変換フォーマットが現状では存在していないため、困難に思えます。 こればっかりは、機械処理での分離はおろか、人力による入力でさえもかなり怪しく なる可能性が高いです。 といいますのも、ただ単に「◯◯ 1-12-9」と表記されていても、 1、そこの大字○○が住居表示が実施されているか否かわからない 2、住居表示が実施されていた場合、出典元がはっきりしないと混乱に陥る。 要はひとめでは、「◯◯ 1-12-9」が 「○○1丁目12番9号」なのか「○○1丁目12番地9」なのかが判らない訳です。 2、のケースは、新築・分譲地などの不動産広告を見て頂くと判りますが、 住居表示実施地域ではあるものの、建物がまだ無いなどで法務局登記の地番表記で表 記しているケース、または表記者や入力者が住居表示と地番表記を混同しているケー スなどです。 (例) 土地登記簿「○○1丁目12番地9」 住居表示 「○○1丁目4番5号」 ↓ 土地登記簿「○○1丁目4番地5」 住居表示 「○○1丁目9番1号」 ↓ ・・・ また、仮に1-12-9ではなく、1-250-3など、明らかに住居表示でないと思われる場合 でも、更に下位のアパート・マンションの棟番号-部屋番号の場合もあるため、機械 処理は諦めた方が賢明です。 最後に私が知っている範囲で「◯◯ 1-12-9」表記の特殊例で、こんなのもあります。 ニュータウン・大規模団地 ・◯◯ 1-12-9 ⇒ ○○1丁目 12-9号棟 (○○1丁目は全域が○○1丁目団地) ・◯◯ 1-12-9 ⇒ (大字)○○ 1街区 12-9号棟 (大字○○は全域が○○団地) * 通常はこれにハイフンで続けて、3ケタ,4ケタの部屋番号がつく場合が多い 関東では、多摩ニュータウンや、UR・公社の大規模団地でしばしば見られます。 地番、住居表示ともにあったとしても、現地では集合住宅ばかりで棟番号で見た方が 判りやすいからなんですね。 まぁ、ここまでは盛り込まなくてもいいですが。。。 Ryo-a 天野 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com wrote: いいだです。 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApY7X6fw8sqxdDNjY1FBeG00TlRZSFoxU2xwOHVCb0E#gid=0 だれでもコメントが可能な状態になっています。 対象のセルを選択して右クリックすると「コメント」ができます。 あまりにややこしい内容を指摘する場合は、こちらのMLに流していただいたほうがスムーズかもしれません。 2013年8月23日 1:16 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com: いいだです。 せっかくの機会だったので、 ・地名: place ・行政単位: admin_level ・郵便住所: addr:* について、対応表をつくりました。 「addr:* 日本式の提案」と記載している列を、addr:*の階層として提案します。 (OSM wikiに書こうともしたのですが、Wiki tableを書くのに心が折れました。すみません) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApY7X6fw8sqxdDNjY1FBeG00TlRZSFoxU2xwOHVCb0E#gid=0 構造については placeについての議論ページになるべく準拠するようにしてありますが、 * place=region を、都道府県を表すタグから、◯◯地方(東北地方、とか)を表すタグに変えている という、1つ大きな改変をしています。 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA_talk:Key:place ■不明確さが入り込む可能性が高い場所 丁目、の扱いです。 行政上の大字の名前として「◯◯ 1丁目12番9号」と規定されていても、 実際のサーベイを行うときに見かける数字としては、しばしば「◯◯ 1-12-9」と省略される記法になっています。 これを正しく分離するのは、統一された変換フォーマットが現状では存在していないため、困難に思えます。 最も正しいのは、その市町村の行政文書を参照し、 まとめあげたものをplaceのノードとしてOSM上に置いておいて参照できるようにすることだと思いますが、 現状利用できて、なおかつ全国単位カバーしているデータがどれだけあるか、というのは疑問です。 (いちばん信頼が置けるとすると、基盤地図情報でしょうか?トレースしかできませんが。 日本郵便さんのデータも、区分けが恣意的な部分ありますが、都市部ではかなり使えると思っています。 CSVだし、ライセンス的に参照しても良いデータだし) この混乱を避けるために、 提案の中で行ってる、place=quarterとplace=neighbourhoodの区分を、 place=neighbourhood としてまとめて表記するのも、1つの解法ではあります。 海外と単位を合わせられるのもあり、それはそれで有意です。 ただ、「町内会」という自治行政単位が存在するため、 [丁目|町丁|丁] は独立した1つの行政単位として扱いたいという観点もあります。 どんなもんでしょ(´・ω・`) 2013年8月20日 1:07 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com: いいだです。 addr:*タグについても順次翻訳します。 補間(interpolation)についての翻訳はしてないのですが、 すみません、どなたか追補をお願いできると嬉しいです。 ちなみに、日本では番号付けの基準がとてもわかりづらいため、ヘタに補間をすると破滅する気がしています。 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Key:addr -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
[Talk-GB] NaPTAN Stops and Hail and Ride Buses
NaPTAN stops can be placed in one of the following categories (initially the not-verified one): - not-verified (imported but not surveyed on the ground); - verified (NaPTAN data has been correlated with a physical stop on the ground and the location adjusted, if necessary); - physically not present, customary stop; - physically not present and no associated stop. Near me, there is a hail and ride segment of a bus route, i.e. you can request the bus to stop at any safe place and there are, for some level of formality, no formal stops. On that route segment, there is NaPTAN data for a number of stops, which although it doesn't have local references for the stops, it also doesn't have a customary stop flag. On the ground, most of these correspond to timetables attached to lamp posts. These timetables are not named, but you can deduce the name from the accompanying partial listing of stops and journey times. Some do not, and I think those actually represent the end of of the hail and ride section. People wanting to get on the bus, do tend to congregate at the time tables, to some extent. but they also get on at other places.. My problem, which I've tried asking of the NaPTAN user on the OpenStreetmap itself, with no reply, is for the two cases: - time table on lamp post; - no time table, but probable end of hail and ride, should they be considered as: NaPTAN verified; not physically present, customary stop; or not physically present, not a stop. I've got a .osm file, sitting on my disk,with corrected locations, waiting for an answer to these questions before I commit it. (Actually, iti is really two back to back sections, as there is a real stop in the middle.) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN Stops and Hail and Ride Buses
I doubt if anyone checks the Naptan account: it's an import account largely to separate personal mapping from imports. Furthermore I don't know how active the user who co-ordinated the imports is these days: info is available on the wiki. I don't think either OSM or NaPTAN ever came up with a satisfactory way of mapping hail-and-ride segments. If you search back in the archives we did have a bit of a discussion. I remember Andy Allan fulminating against a great rash of non-existent bus tops local to him in Putney, which turned out to be a particularly crass set of NaPTAN points. The existence of a time-table attached to a lamp-post suggest that this a customary stop. Ideally we ought to be able to mark hail-and-ride segments on the route-relation of the bus route (it's a property of the route not of the local geography), but can't quite see how to do it. It's something I stopped worrying about when the local council decided that putting bus stop signs up might get more people using the buses. It took quite a bit longer before the buses only stopped at the stops for setting-down. Jerry On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:27 AM, OpenStreetmap HADW osmh...@gmail.comwrote: NaPTAN stops can be placed in one of the following categories (initially the not-verified one): - not-verified (imported but not surveyed on the ground); - verified (NaPTAN data has been correlated with a physical stop on the ground and the location adjusted, if necessary); - physically not present, customary stop; - physically not present and no associated stop. Near me, there is a hail and ride segment of a bus route, i.e. you can request the bus to stop at any safe place and there are, for some level of formality, no formal stops. On that route segment, there is NaPTAN data for a number of stops, which although it doesn't have local references for the stops, it also doesn't have a customary stop flag. On the ground, most of these correspond to timetables attached to lamp posts. These timetables are not named, but you can deduce the name from the accompanying partial listing of stops and journey times. Some do not, and I think those actually represent the end of of the hail and ride section. People wanting to get on the bus, do tend to congregate at the time tables, to some extent. but they also get on at other places.. My problem, which I've tried asking of the NaPTAN user on the OpenStreetmap itself, with no reply, is for the two cases: - time table on lamp post; - no time table, but probable end of hail and ride, should they be considered as: NaPTAN verified; not physically present, customary stop; or not physically present, not a stop. I've got a .osm file, sitting on my disk,with corrected locations, waiting for an answer to these questions before I commit it. (Actually, iti is really two back to back sections, as there is a real stop in the middle.) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2013-08-22
These are based off of Lambertus's work here: http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel free to ask. However, please do not send me private mail. The odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit. Downloads: http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2013-08-22 Map to visualize what each file contains: http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2013-08-22/kml/kml.html FAQ Why did you do this? I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact of doing a large join on Lambertus's server. I've also cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently on removable media. http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2013-08-22 Can or should I seed the torrents? Yes!! If you use the .torrent files, please seed. That web server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this side of the Atlantic. Why is my map missing small rectangular areas? There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the red rectangles), I don't see any at the moment, so you may want to update if you had issues with the last set. Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card? If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from the factory. I had to reformat it to let me create a 2GB file. Does your map cover Mexico/Canada? Yes!! I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario in to the USA. Some areas of North America that are close to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps. This might not happen forever, and if you would like your non-US area to get included, let me know. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] GNIS tag removal proposal
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've been looking at the GNIS data and it's quite a mess. This is a horribly crafted proposal. You haven't shown your research why but you declare the GNIS tags as a mess. Your proposal is as good as me declaring that all the wikipedia tags are a mess and that they should be removed. You don't explain why you are dead set on damaging the map. OSM advertises itself as a the wiki of maps. In wikis there is the concept of interlinking of wiki data. The beauty of providing a link to the Wikipedia is that is shows corroboration of the map data. Further more, it allows people that use the data a way to go to a wiki article and look at more information. Users of the data have the primary key into another database. Likewise, the gnis information provides that link for corroboration and checking the data. By seeing these tags, I know that this peak is not vandalism http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/359252038. How did the thought police miss that name from the colorful West's past? Moreover, I know the name iandees as the importer because I have seen his id on many features. Several things happen with these types of automated edits. One, it changes iandees' user id to mine. The tiger tag removal was horrible for that reason. Now I go in an area an wonder how I did such a bad job on the tiger review for some of the streets that were touched. The tiger tag removal removed several key names in my area: davehansentiger and balrug kon or something like that. Two, tags like these give me more information on how I should treat a feature. For example, If I all I have is peak= and name=, I have to treat this as data that should be carefully handled. I really appreciate all the work that importers have done. They give me plenty work without having a blank map to look at. Sometimes, I need to make radical edits to what was imported because the area changed. Having those gnis* tags takes away my fear that I have just destroyed data that someone spent time putting into the map to share with others. Third, the gnis dates also help me know how old the data that was imported is on a number of levels. When I see NHD data with dates of early 2000, I know that the source aerials from that time period may not be of the same quality of what we have available now. I know that the NHD data can be improved because there have been a number of floods in my area that have changed the line data. I also know that the original quality of the line work may not be as good as what I can generate now with the current aerials. Fourth, you will be deleting data that I have put in since the imports. I add two tags when I have time to add them. One is the gnis:feature_id. I do that because it is easy for someone down stream of OSM to have the primary key into the GNIS database without parsing any other information. In addition, I put in a source tag with the link to the geonames database following geonames faq like so http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:::NO::P3_FID:1238. Using this form removes your session id from a cut and paste link found in a browser. Fifth, I cannot rely on the jurisdiction areas that have been added to the map. There have been enough new mappers in the Phoenix area that all the city boundaries are broken and no longer render. If the areas are intact, then they have been bumped enough that I don't think the data is reliable. By removing the state and county names you also remove mappers chance of adding the beginnings of the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:is_intags based on this gnis data. In addition, the state_id and county_id are the beginning parts of the census key. As a step towards cleaning up the mess, I'd like to discuss removing some extranious gnis tags in the editors (just as we do with TIGER and other tags). I would like to suggest that the editors remove the following tags entirely: There was a case where someone went through and automatically changed the deprecated tag of building:entrance to entrance = main. That change was rolled back because there was more going on and human judgement need to be involved. There is human judgement that needs to be applied here too. You have say more than this is a mess. As I have shown, your proposal damages the map data and makes it more difficult on mappers to make changes to imported data where it is needed. Your proposal would make a mess. Regards, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] GNIS tag removal proposal
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, I've been looking at the GNIS data and it's quite a mess. This is a horribly crafted proposal. You haven't shown your research why but you declare the GNIS tags as a mess. Your proposal is as good as me declaring that all the wikipedia tags are a mess and that they should be removed. You don't explain why you are dead set on damaging the map. OSM advertises itself as a the wiki of maps. In wikis there is the concept of interlinking of wiki data. The beauty of providing a link to the Wikipedia is that is shows corroboration of the map data. Further more, it allows people that use the data a way to go to a wiki article and look at more information. Users of the data have the primary key into another database. Greg, please watch your language. This is a public forum and we're all equals here working to improve the map. Please refrain from using superlatives like horrible and maintain a positive discourse so that we can all enjoy our time working on this volunteer project. -Ian (as talk-us moderator) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] GNIS tag removal proposal
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, I've been looking at the GNIS data and it's quite a mess. This is a horribly crafted proposal. You haven't shown your research why but you declare the GNIS tags as a mess. Your proposal is as good as me declaring that all the wikipedia tags are a mess and that they should be removed. You don't explain why you are dead set on damaging the map. OSM advertises itself as a the wiki of maps. In wikis there is the concept of interlinking of wiki data. The beauty of providing a link to the Wikipedia is that is shows corroboration of the map data. Further more, it allows people that use the data a way to go to a wiki article and look at more information. Users of the data have the primary key into another database. Greg, please watch your language. This is a public forum and we're all equals here working to improve the map. Please refrain from using superlatives like horrible and maintain a positive discourse so that we can all enjoy our time working on this volunteer project. I am sorry about that. I thought that I was trying to make a factual response. Regards, Greg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us