On 10/11/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ] which is why i would never actually
> recommend the pi. And there are even more alternatives now.
>
Simply because I've never seen their name mentioned here - I did miss
a year or two, I'm sure I mentioned them before that - let me do same
On 10/9/18, Bakul Shah wrote:
>
> One thing I have mused about is recasting plan9 as a
> microkernel and pushing out a lot of its kernel code into user
> mode code. It is already half way there -- it is basically a
> mux for 9p calls, low level device drivers, VM support & some
> process related
Let's take a step back here, and stop treating jerks like Kurt (or me,
for that matter) the way they treat the ideas they perceive to be
hare-brained.
It's weird that with all the time in the world to "think before
posting", knee-jerk reactions still find their way to a mailing list
like this one
On 10/8/18, Digby R.S. Tarvin wrote:
>
> So the question is... is plan9 still lean and mean enough to fit onto a
> machine with a 64K address space? Doing a port would certainly provide
> plenty of opportunity to tinker with the lights and switches on front
> panel, and if it the port was
How soon would you start needing some form of support back-up?
It's a little random around these places, which is why promises are
hard to keep.
Lucio.
No big promises, though.
Lucio.
--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
9860 South Africa
Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
Cell: +27 83 251 5824
FAX: +27 58 653 1435
On 9/20/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the point is there are more worthy things to do than to work around
> shitty hardware or reproduce functionality that is already provided by
> the bios in plan 9.
>
I couldn't agree more. But does it help to repeat that refrain, here?
That could also be
On 9/20/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> doing it in plan 9 would be a waste of time.
No argument, but a lot of time is being wasted all the time and 9fans,
perhaps with some notable exceptions, need to feel good as much as the
next person.
> i don't know what's modern to you, but if you
On 9/19/18, G B wrote:
> I have 9front installed on a Lenovo N580 laptop and am using a USB mouse.
> However, the touchpad is killing me. How can I disable the touchpad so only
> the mouse moves?
>
Rather exciting, I'll keep an eye out for that option, Plan 9 (well,
9front, I do not think of
On 9/6/18, Bakul Shah wrote:
>
> But if all you want to do is just run plan9 why even bother?
>
But that is disingenuous, isn't it? What one wants is Plan 9 as a
model for what may be a family of hardware APIs. It makes sense to
promote massive parallelism, but the API to it should be
On 9/3/18, Ethan Gardener wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018, at 1:40 PM, Chris McGee wrote:
>> While the idea that many eyes makes bugs shallower seems to have failed
>> in the world of complex behemoth software it may work here.
>
> I think it worked for a while, but eventually complexity grew beyond
On 9/2/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "prevailing wisdom" sounds like an oxymoron.
>
Yes, real wisdom is for some (evolutionary? counter-evolutionary?)
reason unlikely to prevail.
Go figure.
Lucio.
On 9/2/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i suppose you could check the individual blogs, possibly in an
> automated way by writing some one-liner rc and hget script and publish
> the outcome, plus keep it updated. then perhaps you can figure out if
> this is the kind of information currently
On 9/3/18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> [ ... ]
>
> Most commonly, someone will mandate two-factor authentication, and
> kerberos tickets (usually via GSSAPI) are the back-end, regardless of
> which security tokens (RSA SecurID, smart cards, yubikeys, etc) are
> chosen.
>
Thanks, Kurt, I knew 9fans was
You're here. Sometimes an audience is all the artist needs as the
stimulus. How does it go? "They also serve...".
Lucio.
On 9/2/18, Chris McGee wrote:
> I'm reading this article about how they are going through the giant heaping
> pile of Linux kernel code and trying to come up with safer practices to
> avoid the "dangers" of C. The prevailing wisdom appears to be that things
> should eventually be rewritten in
On 9/2/18, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
>
> Regarding authentication and access control, I think the only *standard*
> option for a mixed OS environment (Plan 9, Linux/*BSD, Windows) is
> Kerberos.
>
Is that still actively used (I mean, outside of Microsoft's attempted
hi-jacking)? In my Linux-prone
On 9/2/18, Ethan Gardener wrote:
> I had a thought pertaining to the original topic.
>
[ ... ]
>
> FreeBSD has ZFS too, which of course offers snapshots, but it has so many
> options that I found it a bit too much. It seems well documented and the
> interface seems reasonable for the feature
On 9/2/18, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> Have you considered using AoE (Coraid)? It would require dedicated fossil,
> NFS CIFS servers, but they'd all be sharing the storage -- Coraid supports
> ext4 and NTFS. Most servers have multiple NICs, which makes a dedicated LAN
> for AoE traffic easy.
>
I
On 9/2/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The way I inform myself of valuable contributions to plan 9 these days
> is by watching 9front commit logs and the #cat-v irc channel.
>
> If there are any valuable commits in David's repository that we should
> apply, please inform us.
>
I was waiting
On 9/2/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> already cinap is supporting dp9ik in drawterm, so...
>
That's subversive in the most practical sense. Is academia aware of it
and its import? That is what curatorship (a friend from past days was
and may still be the curator of the South African
On 9/2/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> there used to also be a planet/rss aggregation, but nobody alive knows
> how to get the used software behind this to run on plan9 again
I used to be a debugging whiz, in happier, more youthful times, maybe
I can give that a try (it seems a challenge,
> how to get the used software behind this to run on plan9 again. and
> most people's blogs in that list shifted from plan9-related to
> go-related activities, so i'm not sure it's even worth updating any
> more.
>
>
--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Free State)
986
On 9/2/18, Lucio De Re wrote:
> On 9/1/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> no, 9p2000.L or Linux syscalls are not supported by plan9.
>>
>>
> So Ethan is right, this is a "lark", if an interesting one. 9P is
> getting quite a few "take
On 9/1/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> no, 9p2000.L or Linux syscalls are not supported by plan9.
>
>
So Ethan is right, this is a "lark", if an interesting one. 9P is
getting quite a few "takers". I seem to recall a paper on adding Plan
9 authentication to the Linux kernel, for purposes
On 9/1/18, Joseph Stewart wrote:
> This thread got me searching and I found MJL's guide for running a plan9
> network on a *nix system using u9fs.
>
> Hope this helps:
>
> https://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/plan9/plan9-obsd.html
>
> I'm gonna tinker with this myself.
>
That authsrv9 looks very
On 9/2/18, Brian L. Stuart wrote:
> On Sat, 9/1/18, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> [ ... ]
>> My hope is to provide a central file server that fulfills reliable
>> file services to both Plan 9 and Linux as seamlessly as possible. I am
>
> I'm not going to make any guara
On 9/1/18, Lucio De Re wrote:
>
> Trying it out, it fails to find "attach" and there is no clue where
> that should come from. It did strike me as complex, but if it serves
> an NFS filesystem, that is probably adequate.
>
> I'll wait to pass judgement for afte
On 9/1/18, Emery Hemingway wrote:
> I don't think you can find better than u9fs for unix.
>
I tend to use that as a norm, but the backing Plan 9 server is kind of
in the wrong "key". OK for Plan 9, but too slow for Linux. Still, that
sounds like a warning that better that u9fs is not out there.
On 9/1/18, Rui Carmo wrote:
> I myself have similar needs and recently bookmarked this:
> https://github.com/chaos/diod (but had no time to test it yet).
>
Thank you, Rui, that looks pretty exciting, I'll be happy to look into it.
It does rather look like Plan 9 itself may have to be of the
I'm trying to arrive at the most elegant solution to the following
problem that does not sacrifice a great deal of efficiency. And, maybe
I need to state this, the final result must be as robust or more
robust than what I have in place currently, which has yet to let me
down, partially due to the
On 7/21/18, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:
>
> To be fair, if you're using a command line, you might as well be using
> ImageMagick (not criticizing your points or anything, just playing devil's
> advocate).
>
Without ever looking under he bonnet, I got the impression that IM is
the single utility that is
On 6/20/18, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
> [ ... ] Most of it is going into game scripting at the moment, but on the back
> burner is a Forth-based project; a sort of operating system where the
> primary interface to all tasks is a Forth interpreter. [ ... ]
Bakul may not agree, but that sounds like
On 6/15/18, Mart Zirnask wrote:
>
> +1, and there's also good old 9vx:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Vx32
>
Great news. I've upgraded my Linux Mint to 64-buit ad I've been
reluctant to experiment with 9vx, which I really like a lot. Can you
confirm thatit runs OK under 64-bit Linux? Do I
y, we use kinds of operating system and kinds of software on
> them.
>
> Regards,
> Yubao Liu
>
>> On Jun 14, 2018, at 10:53 AM, N. S. Montanaro wrote:
>>
>> I think a lot of people discover Plan 9 and want it to be something it
>> isn’t, rather than stumbl
n for is taken as just one argument instead of
> 3. What can I do with it?
>
> I haven't modified ifs (it should be \n space and tab).
> (How can I check, say see the character codes?)
>
> Thanks for comments
> Ruda
>
>
--
Lucio De Re
2 Piet Retief St
Kestell (Eastern Fr
Four. Long-standing nobody, too.
Lucio.
On 2/14/18, Dave MacFarlane wrote:
>
> https://www.github.com/driusan/dgit/
>
> It's written in Go, which means it'll only work on platforms that Go
> supports (I think there's a list somewhere on the Go wiki, but it's some
> subset of 386/arm/amd64 depending on which fork
On 2/14/18, Steve Simon wrote:
>
> re git frowned upon.
>
> i think git is frowned upon because porting it would be a massive effort due
> to its many dependencies, whist python has been ported and mercurial just
> works.
>
It's a shame, cause GIT itself is mostly C, no doubt
On 2/13/18, Mart Zirnask <martzirn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/02/2018, Lucio De Re <lucio.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Stenography (short-hand)?
>>
> Yes -- "everything is a line"!
> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/yeah-i-still-use-s
On 2/13/18, Daniel Camolês wrote:
> [ ... ]
>
> Maybe it's not impossible that someone would come up with a way to input
> text using a pen over a screen that's even more efficient and convenient
> than a keyboard. So far, such technology just doesn't exist.
>
Stenography
I have a lot of admiration for cinap, he's "deep".
But he is also the best qualified person to estimate whether
improvements in 9front are portable back to legacy and I'm sure that
is, sadly, not high on his agenda.
Conservatively, I'd like legacy to be the entry system to Plan 9 and
categorise
9front is not something I'm familiar with, but Plan 9 legacy is
trivial to install (I still use VMware ESXi as the host) and you can
rebuild the entire system with a handful of commands once you've got
that far.
Naturally, you may prefer a different approach, but do you need that
to be your first
On 2/13/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lucio, what commit are you missing in 9front that you would like to see
> merged?
>
Wrong person, Hiro :-)
I am a strict 9legacy user, down to only a few patches past a very old
Plan 9 release, just enough modernity to run Go plus a few of my own
tiny
On 2/13/18, Rui Carmo wrote:
> I get the current website and some of the in-jokes, but a step-by-step guide
> for installing, building and contributing would be great ...
It's so easy to fall into the trap of elitism, while bemoaning the
shortage of development hands needed
On 2/13/18, s...@9front.org wrote:
>>
>> That said, I deem it unfortunate that there isn't a drive to
>> consolidate the various flavours of Plan 9 into a single offering, or
>> at least identify and discuss the differences and provide for the
>> choices from a single source (pun
On 2/12/18, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> [ a neat rant I agree almost to the pixel with... ]
I (mostly) manage a (very small) team of younger programmers who only
really know Linux, and then the Debian or Ubuntu distros, almost
exclusively. My sentiments and Ethan's seem
On 2/12/18, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, at 11:04 AM, Steve Simon wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I almost want this for my wall. :)
>
>
>
Maybe the artwork can be released?
I'd pay money for a poster...
Lucio.
On 2/10/18, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
> Just curious as to the state of the union. Is 9front pretty much the de
> facto "official" Plan 9 these days, or does anyone still use or maintain any
> of the following:
I'm with David (legacy), nearly all the way.
That
Probably never heard of Acme.
The demo looks impressive, though. I didn't follow it very well, it
was way too fast and full of references to concepts that evidently
haven't reached my corner of Dark Africa yet :-)
Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying
me.
++L
I am not familiar with the use of Bash in Go; I suspect that they stick
to stuff that will work across Baash versions though.
The difficult bit for argumentative people to grasp is that the Go
Team use features that are portable across bourne-like shells, they
just refuse to commit to that
But as I said, this is not to argument about Go developers' choices:
they do as they see fit
I think their philosophy is sound, not just an arbitrary choice. The
alternative is a commitment that can only be fulfilled by applying
resources best utilised on the focal issue.
For example, the
The basis does
not request ftp.
I apologise for working with too little information. I have long
wanted to have TeX installed for the rare occasions when I want to
explore the TeX Book, so I took a chance. I'm waiting to find the
energy to solve the libc/libm/libl problem I encountered :-)
anyway, a meld of Rc shell and mk? crazy idea.
Inferno (Vitanuova) released a mash a ways back, but apparently the
sources were lost. It was mind-bogglingly interesting!
++L
Errr ... no. Twice: mash was not VN code but brucee's preemptive strike
against a POSIX shell for Lucent's Inferno;
VN's Inferno had a shell with a different style done by Roger Peppe.
I do apologise. Mash was genial! The VN shell was remarkable in a
very different way.
++L
The minimal being a subset of POSIX.2 for the tools,
Maybe I'm pushing too hard here, but even Posix isn't followed by all
implementations of /bin/sh (no, I'm not sure, but there is no proof
possible, as the future is also a factor). Thing is, Bash is
well-defined, by a single implementation.
FWIW, i'm using bash as the interactive shell too, in `konsole' terminal
emulator, because of bash' interactive line edition and command history.
9term
doesn't fit me.
all scripting -- both standalone and in mkfiles -- goes in rc, thou.
Russ uses bash because it is uniformly crappy
Anyway, I do not understand how uniform crappiness can be advantageous...
The issue raised on Go-Nuts is that Bash shouldn't be used for
installing Go, /bin/sh should be used instead. The response is that
Bash is the most uniformly implemented of the /bin/sh's out there and
that none of the
ypical Go shit there. If the scripts are so complicated that it's a
pain in the ass to find a way to run them, fix the stupid scripts.
They did, by building the go command.
Do you think you can provide any guarantees that the subset of /bin/sh
features common to all current instances of
i don't know. but the problem isn't the consistency of rc. byron's
rc doesn't count. that's like saying the bourne shell is not consistent
because of bash.
But I am saying that, and I believe that is what motivates the Go Team
to continue using Bash. They know that Bash works. They also
On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 04:52:34PM +0200, Lucio De Re wrote:
Or are you oriented towards kiloLOCs of test code to see which
features are implemented and provide compatability a la autoconf?
Excellent example of a false dilemma. I'm oriented towards exerting the
effort to make something
perhaps (let's hope) someone else has better ideas.
The Inferno shell was (is) slick!
++L
Solution: replace
the #!/bin/sh with #!/usr/bin/env -c /bin/bash. Why not?
Because there are plenty of systems out there without env or bash.
Worth a try, though! There is very little shell code left in the Go
release. Maybe I'll give it a try on my pristine NetBSD machine.
But note that
My only actual statement is that a better
solution would be de-shitting the build process so that it doesn't
require such a precise set of software to operate.
Does that translate into being able to supply an example of such a
de-shitting process the Go Team could and should have followed? An
or is here
any reason why serveraddrs() should *not* fill the whole array up
to the last element and stop at Maxdest-2?
I'm just guessing here, but Kenji pointed to the need to add a server
address in the case of a straddling server. Would that perhaps be a
factor here?
++L
can anyone provide at least a stacktrace or process snapshot
of the crashed dns processes?
I've had double-free errors from dns on my server, but the same
machine suffers from fossil/venti errors, so I can't use it as
diagnostics.
I do think that Plan 9 dns is a bit fragile, though not in the
I'm 1300 km aways from the server, incidentally.
the not-so-virtual virtual machine?
No, the physical hardware, co-hosted in Cape Town. Changing the
underlying virtualiser would be quite a mission from my current
location. I am going to upload an atom ISO image, though, if you
(Erik) point
http://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2.
Thank you, I'll give it a try sometimes later, let you know what I
discover...
++L
please use http, as ftp seems to have an issue that can cause
connection hangs, especially with os-x.
No problem, although I'm likely to do this from a Plan 9 terminal or
CPU server. Although I presume fcp(1) isn't an option?
i believe i've found and fixed the problem with tcp, but it's
The
getting dot-dot right is precisely the problem that there are
multiple paths, and only one is valid for a classical dir tree and
you got to follow this one correct path back. Here, this multiplicity
is simultaneously valid, and all the paths are the correct answer.
The question here is
I haven't checked all possibilities, but perhaps someone here has a
quick fix.
I'm trying to boot a Plan 9 ISO image from a few weeks back (date
indeterminate, right now) under VMware ESXi, but it seems to jam at
the PBSR...I prompt (text cursor on the following line). I tried
both the primary
I suggest not using VMware for the installation, but Virtual Box
https://www.virtualbox.org/ instead; I've had no issues with
installation, and it can be configured quickly.
You missed the bit about being 1400 km from the host :-) I'm not sure
about SCSI disk errors that seem to be popping up;
When I run 'pull' it just produces no output and just sits there
apparently for ever. I can run '9fs sources' and navigate around in
/n/sources/. Is there a lock file or something I should delete? Any
suggestions for debugging?
I was going to raise the alarm before, but too many other
When I run 'pull' it just produces no output and just sits there
apparently for ever. I can run '9fs sources' and navigate around in
/n/sources/. Is there a lock file or something I should delete? Any
suggestions for debugging?
I was going to raise the alarm before, but too many other
/n/9fat/plan.ini: rc (bootsetup): can't open: '/n'9fat/plan9.ini' clone failed
Your spelling mistake, or the distribution's? I'm talking about the
quote in place of a slash.
++L
How much more so then should we oppose
standards which benefit nobody while requiring a lot of work to no
purpose?
You're getting lost. The MIME standard (RFC 1341, June 1992) is what
you started criticising and you're overlooking (a) that a phenomenal
amount of effort went into establishing
standards aren't laws. there's no moral component at all.
Politics (insufficient resources) can put moral components into
anything. But most technical standard organisations do aim to avoid
making the type of short sighted judgements that lead to resource
depletion. Then the market comes
Are you claiming it is good through tenure, which is obviously a
fallacy, or are you actually calling this catastrophe of a standard
great?
You're not offering a comparison, so, yes, I'm calling it good. So,
apparently, do innumerable users, again, maybe for want of a better
product. Twenty
MIME is a shitty workaround (badly) designed to cram non-text data into
a text-based protocol. Instead of using proper transfer protocols to
transfer files, some morons decided to shove binary data into text-based
messaging. When the web crowd decided they, too, would like to shove
unlikely
i know, the syntax doesn't make sense, but if you take extern register
to have the standard plan 9 meaning, and static to mean visibility limited
to this file, then there you have it.
At a glance, I'd say you're looking for inline assembly?
++L
(Trolling unintentional)
The misspelling of Xerox in Acme has bugged me for a long time. I
want to suggest that we change it to Clone. Votes?
++L
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
All bikesheds need to be repainted eventually.
++L
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:28:47PM -0700, John Floren wrote:
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...
But we don't agree on the colour...
That's the thing about the bike shed: choosing a colour must not delay
construction. But once it's built and it needs a new coat of
This is a bit silly. Zerox here (in the context of acme/Plan 9) has a
well-understood meaning. Obvious etymology aside, it's essentially a
made-up word here. It's beneficial that it isn't a false cognate to
some action, since the behavior is not obvious a priori (in the
normal case of
i've removed the `Look' command from Acme's tag, as i found no use for it.
anything i'm missing?
It's a convenient mechanism to search for patterns that may be
misinterpreted. I use it a lot when the pattern I'm looking for
happens to match a filename.
++L
I seem to be missing /sys/lib/wiki/create.html, if I understand the
operation of wikifs properly: trying to create a new page reports
its absence. There is no such item on sources, either.
Yet, I also get a missing report for about.html and that is in fact
present, which baffles me about as much
I'll keep looking for the reason behind the false absence of
about.html.
I figured this one out, it seems a copy of the file ought to be in the
directory onto which the wiki FS is mounted. Presumably the same
applies to create.html, I just need to find it.
++L
I am not on sparc64 machine. I tried to disable all arch but (6 9) in
mkfile, but then build fails thus:
What are you on?
Obviously there is an error in the build procedure, but it would be useful to
know what is triggering it.
On my workstation:
term% cat /dev/archctl
cpu
We would be glad to work further on such a C++ port with anybody who
can handle the Qt end of things so anybody interested in exploring
such an endeavor should discuss with us.
I have a friend who is totally sold on LLVM, but I note that it is
itself written in C++, so bootstrapping would be
I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for
Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it
depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt
definitely has its place in the world.
I've bought the Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix
IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least
resistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not
the only path being considered.
Except that by definition the path of least resistance is the only one
of its type. You buy the reason, you paint
Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :)
Too many years of logic, I'm a very rational materialist. But thank
you for the suggestion, it gave me reason to smile. I do get plenty,
in their lack of technical sophistication , my previously
disadvantaged neighbours have a great deal of
auth=akenaton.amarna.net authdomain=amarna.net
authdom not authdomain. Not a very forgiving database format.
++L
This is unusual, at the least. Typically, you have something like:
authdom=mydomain.com auth=whatever.mydomain.com
in its own stanza.
It works for me where I have a few different sites with distinct auth
servers and, to be safe, auth domains. And though this may be just
luck, it follows
I have fixed various bugs in ssh2; they'll be in the ssh2
on sources once it's all shaken down.
Wow!
++L
Makes me want fire my guru plug back up
My sheevaplug (does that put me in a lower or higher caste?) is
waiting for somebody to write me a Go runtime preamble (actually, just
help me along with a few hints that will make it possible for me to
write it - last I looked at the Linux/Arm stuff, I
I have ipwg delcared in my server's ndb file
s/ipwg/ipgw/
Is it spelled correctly in server's /lib/ndb/local?
... and is it really necessary for the terminal to have its own ndb
file? At best, it's redundant, at worst, conflicting.
++L
There's a start member to struct Srv that doesn't
seem to exist in /sys/include/9p.h
You should apply this patch (from plan9port):
Thanks, David, that seems to have worked so far.
++L
contrib/quanstro/root/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum
Nfactotum misses proto=mschap which is used by cifs(4) for doing NTLM.
1. Is Nfactotum the back port of factotum from p9p?
2. Any chance that these different branches could be brought together?
I note that the 9p.h extension is trivial, I see
So, save for the ipwg, everything seems ok. The server akenaton as
ip=10.0.0.2 and it's ndb database has declared all these services.
Why then, isn't dns working?
I had to use an IP number in the ipgw pair in the ipnet to force it to appear
in /net/ndb. I'm not sure whether this is expected
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